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-   -   Progressing in our lives in order to create our relationships..? (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1960)

LovingRadiance 01-13-2010 12:07 AM

Progressing in our lives in order to create our relationships..?
This thread is going to be a compilation of mixed up confusion I fear-but if you find a piece that touches you, confuses you or that you just need to address, feel free to ask, I don't mind clarifying!!

Maca, GG and I are (of course) still working through the details of our relationship. There are intricacies that change (even though we've all lived together for years) when you change the relationship from a fearful, treading on eggshells balance to an honest, open and hopefully loving V relationship.

As if that isn't complicated enough there was the affair between GG and I. :(

Anyway-we've recently made some MAJOR steps in our lives.

I've always been a very loving person. I've felt a deep love for people that lasts (so far) a lifetime. Some I've had sexual relations with, some I haven't.
GG is one of those people;
We have 17 years of being best friends.
17 years of raising kids together.
17 years of loving one another, most of which was NOT intimate or sexual.

Em (known as my sister) is one.
We met when we were 13. She became my foster sister and best friend.
We have 21 years of being best friends.
We have 18 years of raising kids together.
We have 21 years of loving one another, none of which was sexual.

Blaidwynn is one.
We've had 31 years of friendship.
18 years of sharing the job of supporting one another through raising children.
22 years of loving one another, none of which was sexual.

There are others, but these three are the closest, the longest, the deepest. There's a sensuality shared between us, there's a spirituality shared between us.
I call it the "undefinable", and whatever that undefinable thing is that bonds people to one another in a way that they COULD make love to one another and it wouldn't be sexual.... we have it.

Recently Blaidwynn and his wife have been spending more time in the town where we live (they live 300+ miles away). Partly due to my illness, partly due to his illness being more controlled and so they CAN. No doubt there are more reasons now but that's not my story to tell. :)

Regardless of the reasons this has brought a new piece into the "puzzle" of "me" for Maca. He's seeing more of me AS ME.
He's also seeing love in action.

There's so much to tell-I don't even know where to begin, I wouldn't bother at all, but it seems that if we've struggled, and are finding a path through the wasteland, maybe sharing it will help someone else to find the way through as well....

Last night I found words to explain some of myself. Really it started with Polynerdist joining the board (NO I don't even KNOW him, just the things he said resonate SO MUCH with me!).

His "ideal relationship" post, #30 in
touched me to my core.

I sent a copy of it, with my thoughts and reactions to my "nearest and dearest". Then I took it and wrote out what each part of it means to me in my life-and gave it to Maca (ok yes I also sent that to a few other near and dear friends!).

In reading it, copying it, writing my thoughts I found myself finally finding words to describe MORE of my inner self, and more of why I feel so........NOT "in line with" the rest of the world.

Love to most people seems to be a word that explains a feeling, an emotion in a moment, a sensation that overtakes them at some point.

But to me LOVE is a series of choices, actions based upon those choices, a LIFESTYLE.

I'm not specifying "romantic love" or "sexual love" or "intimate love" or "parent to child love" or "love between friends" because TO ME-there is no differentiation.

LOVE doesn't alter to me, it's a lifestyle made by actions chosen based on a series of choices to be/do loving to the people and world that surrounds me...

What DOES alter from one relationship to the next is how one shows that love, which actions are chosen to express those choices...

MonoVCPHG 01-13-2010 12:19 AM

All good to hear, my friend :) Thank you for letting us into your world and sharing this.

LovingRadiance 01-13-2010 12:29 AM

Love Never Ends....
"There is one thing I won't do for you-I will NOT choose you OVER my friends and family. No if's, No and's, No butt's. "

This has been something I've told everyone I've dated. I've often clarified it for new people I am dating by adding in specified names.

By the time Maca and I started dating, GG was included in that list.

I don't think AT THE TIME it meant anything to Maca, but later it sure as well did. It became a point of contention. Maca for a variety of reasons at different times has taken issue with one or another of the dearest and most beloved people in my life. At this point I would say that it was likely ONE reason in each time, even though there were different "triggers".

The reason is that he felt threatened by the depth of MY version of LOVE. Because it's NOT just a word to me, then he saw how devoted, loyal and committed I was to these people, and he felt threatened.
He feared that my devotion, loyalty and commitment to them would overpower my devotion, loyalty and commitment to him.
So he tried to annihilate those relationships.

But in trying he found another difference between MY version of LOVE and others he had encountered.

For me LOVE really and truly DOES NOT END.
There is no point where I STOP loving someone.

It doesn't matter what happens, murder, rape, death, dismemberment, abandonment. I don't stop loving those I've started loving.

HOW I choose to SHOW them my love changes frequently based on
WHO we each are at any given moment in life AND
WHERE we each are at any given moment in life.

Because this world we live in is in a constant state of flux. By the time I finish writing and post this-the world around me will have changed more times than I can predict as I write this.

Also-we ourselves as individuals are in a constant state of flux. We are changing, from the smallest cells in our bodies right on up to the largest parts of those interconnected cells, we are in constant change.

Therefore how we choose to express our commitments has to be flexible enough that we can express our commitments appropriately as we are, for who we are to whom the person we are expressing it is in the world we are in and in the world they are in as well.

I won't allow a lover to tell me who I can love in my life.
Nor can I allow a lover to tell me how I show my love in my life.
I also won't allow a loved one to tell me who I can love in my life.
Nor will I allow a loved one to tell me how I show my love in my life.

There was never a risk of Maca being "less" or being "replaced".

For the same holds true that holds true for him that holds true for the others whom I've chosen actions and the lifestyle of love.

I will never stop loving him and I will always to seek to show him my love in the most beneficial and appropriate way based on who I am AND who he is as well as WHERE he is and WHERE I am in life.

I chose him and he's been loved by me for 20 years.
I chose him and we've raised our children for 11 years (we in March).
I chose him and we've been husband and wife for 10 years (11 in July).
I chose him-and once I choose to love, I NEVER STOP.
His place is secure, even if he decides he doesn't want it.

Ariakas 01-13-2010 12:33 AM

I am curious if anyone here has heard the term anam cara. Its an old term that literally means soul friends. The relationships most of you seem to describe sounds like they may fall into this category.

I have several people I connect with and would call my anam cara, and always have. Love for me is a slightly different context and I don't give it out often, to be honest I am also VERY picky about who I even call a friend. Anam Cara seemed to suit a lot of my relationships better than love or friendship due to how I was impacted.

Sorry to hijak, but the entire time I have been reading this forum a lot of descriptions seem to fit what anam cara stands for :)

redsirenn 01-13-2010 12:40 AM

Hello -
I agree with you on how I define love as well. I define it as a series of actions or choices that one makes in thier life towards someone. I came to this from an abusive relationship where we said we "loved" each other - based on how we felt, but in reality there was very little love in there. I think it was more codependency than anything.

However- I can see that with even your description of love how someone could still feel insecure or unsure of your position in thier life based on how you interact with others. You say you will always love someone, but you also say that how you show that will change.

This is a bit confusing, because if you don't show love via actions, etc. in the way that someone would interpret as "loving". Then to them, it doesn't matter if you "love" them or not - because what really matters to someone is the actions, not the theoretical thought from afar.

For example, if someone was a murderer or an abuser (ok an extreme example to prove a point) you might always love them, but you might not decide to even be around them, talk to them, etc. Or as a nother example, you might always love someone - but time spent on another relationship detracts from what you used to do as "acts of love" to the first relationship.

To you - this is all great... but to the other it can be a source of internal debate, threat, and fear.... all adding to insecurities and jealousy. Simply because in the end - noone really views love as just a feeling... it is how they are treated by someone that really shows love.

just another ramble.


LovingRadiance 01-13-2010 12:41 AM

Thank you-New Friends

You, my friend are poly in my eyes. Loving radiance is fitting for you. I'm not saying it will be enough to keep you all together but if destiny declares you will be happier apart than so be it. Just be happy.
In the midst of my effort to put all of my thoughts together for Maca, I recieved a PM on here. From someone I have come to consider not only an enjoyable person to debate and contemplate with on the board, but also as a friend and "ally" in the world. Someone who though we see much of the world quite differently-we have the same basic underlying goals and intentions in our lives.

There was more to what was in the PM, but though they said I COULD identify them, I chose not to and have limited what I copied to the MOST pertinent part that has no detail that would identify them.

This PM was almost "tear-jerking" in a good way for me.

Because it expresses that what I try to express of who I am, what I am and where I am-was understood.

But also because it tells me-even though like everyone else I make mistakes, I break the hearts of those I love, I'm on the right track. If I'm on the right track-eventually I'll get where I intend to go.

And finally because it acknowledges what I try to live by-which is that love won't necessarily make a relationship work IN THE WAY OR IN THE DYNAMIC YOU WANT IT TO-
but that if you stand by that love, you CAN find happiness.

What isn't said -but is also true, is that if you continue to LIVE in love-the relationship will remain, although it will inevitably change and may in fact change from the dynamic you start to a COMPLETELY different and seemingly unrelated type of dynamic.

So to my new and quickly becoming beloved friend and your quickly becoming beloved to me family as well-

Thank you for SEEING or "sensing" the me that I've worked so hard to become, for supporting me through this new life change and for exposing yourself to the risk of making a new friend! You've graced me with a gift as precious as life.

LovingRadiance 01-13-2010 12:45 AM

Anam cara

Originally Posted by Ariakas (Post 19719)
I am curious if anyone here has heard the term anam cara. Its an old term that literally means soul friends. The relationships most of you seem to describe sounds like they may fall into this category. ......
Sorry to hijak, but the entire time I have been reading this forum a lot of descriptions seem to fit what anam cara stands for :)

I have not. But THANK YOU for sharing. How do you say that term? I LIKE it.

I generally HATE the word "friendship" and find myself endlessly frustrated by the word "love" because they don't FIT for me in my life.

LovingRadiance 01-13-2010 12:48 AM

Anam Cara... beautiful!!!
WOW. I found this....



What is Anam Cara?

According to Celtic spiritual tradition, the soul shines all around the body like a luminous cloud. When you are very open ~ appreciative and trusting ~ with another person, your two souls flow together. This deeply felt bond with another person means you have found your anam cara, or "Soul Friend." Your anam cara always beholds your light and beauty, and accepts you for who you truly are. In Celtic spirituality, the anam cara friendship awakens the fullness and mystery of your life. You are joined in an ancient and eternal union with humanity that cuts across all barriers of time, convention, philosophy, and definition. When you are blessed with an anam cara, the Irish believe, you have arrived at that most sacred place: ~HOME~


Ariakas 01-13-2010 12:54 AM


I generally HATE the word "friendship" and find myself endlessly frustrated by the word "love" because they don't FIT for me in my life.
Exactly what I have been thinking the entire time I have been trying to understand polyamour.

its a truly awesome term, and can fall in line with many different types of relationships (including love). During a really rough time in my life 10 or 12 years ago I had to find something that was both soothing and suited the relationships I was developing at the time.

Glad you like it :)

LovingRadiance 01-13-2010 01:03 AM

Those points are true.

Much of what was in Polynerdists post clarifies how it would work for me.

An example, the last guy I dated before I married-K. He and I have different goals in life. We didn't make a good couple because of that.
When we "broke up" our dating relationship, I took it upon myself to go to him and show my love for him by being there for him as a friend. He knew my decision to break up with him made sense, but still it hurt!
It was unfair to expect HIM to take the step to promote a friendship from there. I did it myself.
When he got a new girlfriend, I was there supporting THEM. When he broke up with her (she got into heavy drugs and he couldn't stay it was too f'd up) I was there for him, holding him, because he did love her.

So-yes a person CAN find insecurity in my words. But those who've taken the chance, those who've taken a "leap of faith", have found that I don't fail them in those ways.

I was explaining to someone recently-I would NEVER leave Maca. I don't prioritize others OVER him.
When he is in need, his need comes first. When Blaidwynns life was on the line (literally we had cause to believe he wouldn't see our youngest child's second birthday), I didn't just run off to him, but I did tell Maca that I needed him (Maca) to understand, that I love this person and this person has been in my life and family since I was THREE years old.
Blaidwynn's wife had done EVERYTHING that could be done, there was no purpose in me leaving my family behind to go take care of him, his wife had it under control, but I told her if she needed a break, or needed a friend, or needed support, I would.
I told Blaidwynn, if he wanted or needed me-I would.
I told Maca-if they need me, I need to go and I spent every night telling Maca how much I love Maca, how important it would be to me that if I did need to go and care for .........
for one of my
Anam Cara's (thank you for THAT term!) in his last hours, days, weeks... and put him to rest.....

that Maca and the children too would come to be with me on the weekends. Because as devastating as it would be to spend those last minutes/last hours/days/weeks caring for and being near Blaidwynn....
It would also be devastating for me to be separated from Maca and the kids for those minutes/hours/days/weeks because I LOVE them and I NEED them and I WANT them, and I TREASURE my EVERY moment with them.

One of the reasons my version of love works-is because the people closest in my life, they live it too.

When all hell broke loose-they were there, not only for me, but for Maca as well. EVEN though he chose to turn a blind eye-they WERE there for him.

This weekend, when he stripped his soul to Blaidwynn (and his wife).
They didn't just raise an eyebrow and then move on with their day.
B's wife (she has a log in but at the moment it evades me) bared her soul for Maca, showed him her heart, her soul, her pains, her struggles. Showed him that he's NOT alone in his battle.
That his terror of "crossing the threshhold" (her words) to a new and better life (my words) wasn't his alone. That he's not walking alone, but that we are all walking the path together and we will continue on together.

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