I could use some advice

WillSing

New member
I'm new here. In fact I'm new to poly in general. It wasn't really my choice, but it has come up a lot in the last handful of years for me. I was very closed to the idea four years ago when my girlfriend at the time brought up to me. Now, I don't think it would have worked with her regardless. From what I can tell TRUST is a big thing in poly and that was what ended our relationship. I think she thought of it as a fix and that's not really what poly is about. At least from what I've ready and heard from others. So fast forward...

My current girlfriend of a year and a half is amazing. Challenging, mind you, but amazing. Being with a bisexual, sexually submissive, slightly neurotic, lyme disease suffering celiac has been an interesting road. But she has one of the biggest hearts and really is a partner in the true sense.

A little background on me... I'm gone a lot. My job normally takes me out of town for a month or two at a time. While away, I had agreed that a little bondage S&M play dates for her was ok. We set up the rules and made sure it was all above board and honest. That was back in January. So recently I was out of town for four months. One of the biggest away trips of my career. Now, I flew home once and she came over twice, so it's not like was didn't see each other the whole time. BUT that's challenging for any relationship.

So I guess she has been struggling with this. But not just with me. She has developed feelings for others in the past while in a relationship. She never acted on them, but she had them. They were what lead to her ending it with many past boyfriends. She loves me! I know that. And I love her. We want to spend a life together. But she is starring to realize she isn't wired to be purely monogamous.

I love this girl with all of my heart. When I'm away from her it's her that I think of before I sleep. She's a part of my conversation with colleagues. Everyone in my life loves her. I'm struggling with being ok with this. I lost my mother at 13 and I believe I have a few abandonment issues when it comes to women. This is bringing up ALL my insecurities. So here I am posting on a chat board to random strangers asking for advice. I've completely overshared. I'm not someone to normally does this. But I don't want to lose her. I know it's going to have to be me coming to grips with this. But it makes me feel less important and really, a little less loved.

So to those of you who have made this journey from being a fairly "normal" guy by society's standards to becoming more open, what was your journey like? I know everyone's is singular and unique, but I feel very alone right now. HALP!

Singing in Seattle
 
I'm sorry you struggle right now. :(

WHAT insecurities? Could you list it?

  • "If we open, ____ could happen. This is bad because then I would have to _____?"

WHAT needs could be met so you could feel secure again and let the insecurity go?
  • Needs met by you?
  • Needs met by her?
  • Needs met by both of you together? Behavior you could do together or stop doing together to help reduce your load?

I know it's going to have to be me coming to grips with this. But it makes me feel less important and really, a little less loved.

Could you please clarify? WHAT is "it?" WHAT done by WHO makes you feel less important and less loved?

  • When she does / does not do (whatever action or thinking behavior), I feel less important.
  • When she does / does not do (whatever action or thinking behavior), I feel less loved.
  • When I do /do not do (whatever action or thinking behavior), I feel less important.
  • When I do/do not do (whatever action or thinking behavior), I feel less loved.
  • When we do /do not do (whatever action or thinking behavior), I feel less important.
  • When we do /do not do (whatever action or thinking behavior), I feel less loved.

It's hard to give you specific suggestions without specific info. But if you need help thinking it out, that's how I'd approach it.

Hang in there. You can sort this out. Take it one thing at a time.

GL!
Galagirl
 
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I was trying not to post a novel but in doing so left out important details. While I was gone she developed feelings for two different guys. One she's known for years and is apart of a poly relationship.

I'm afraid for agree to including others into her life that I will mean less. Or that ultimately I will lose her to someone else. Of course, that can happen without being poly, but it's a concern. But here's the big fear. That's ultimately I AM a monogamous guy who isn't cut out for this and it will chip at my bit by bit. One of my best friend's marriage ended over this. He just couldn't deal with it after a several years.

I'm not sure about your other questions. My thoughts are still kind of spinning. I have to run out the door, but let me think about them and I'll respond later. Thanks for your reply though.
 
Could remember you are not your friend. You are YOU. Don't ADD to your own load fretting over what happened to him. That was his situation.

Let me repeat that back to you to see if I got it right. I could be wrong:

  • I'm afraid to agree date her concurrently with other people because then (she will decide? I will decide?) I will mean less (to her). Then I will have to ______?
  • (I don't know what to guess here. What would you put?)

  • I'm afraid to agree date her concurrently with other people because ultimately she will decide to break up with me. Then I will have to ___?

  • Handle feelings of loss?
  • Heal?
  • Start dating again later when I am ready?

  • I'm afraid to agree date her concurrently with other people because after trying it on I might find out that I AM a monogamous guy who prefers to be relating in monoship shape. Polyshipping it just not for me. Then I will have to ___?

  • Expect me to be assertive about meeting my needs?
  • Expect me to bow out of the polyship and deal with feelings of loss? Heal? Date again when I am ready?
  • Something else?

Most of those seem to revolve around fear of breaking up in general, fear of HER doing the breaking up, or YOU having to do the breaking up. Is that part of it?

It seems to go right to break up too. There's not stop in between for conflict resolution? How strong are your conflict resolution skills with her? Are they weak? Is that part of what ADDS to the fear?

Have you ever broken up WELL? Have all the break up experiences been horrible? Perhaps talking about how to break up well if it has to happen with her could help make it less scary so you can be less fearful? :confused:

Not that you WANT to break up, but if it has to be then HOW will you break up so it is a decent break up for both? :eek:

It's good you want to reflect on your willingness to participate and your ability to participate before jumping in.
  • Am I willing to participate? What blocks my willingness? Can it be changed in time? Or no?
  • Am I able to participate?What blocks my ability? Can it be changed in time? Or no?

Maybe you want to think about pitfalls and handling jealousy together:

Labriola: Poly Hell
Labriola: Jealousy
Wagner: Pitfalls
Wagner: Jealousy

Maybe that changes your "willing and able" some.

But before all that you could figure out what YOU are. Since people sometimes use words differently, I give you my definitions. You could determine which of the pairs is more "you" at this time.

LOVE SHARE
  • Monoamorous (desire or capacity to share your love with only one person at a time)
  • Polyamorous (desire or capacity to share your love with more than one person at a time)

SEX SHARE
  • 1 partner sex (desire or capacity to share sex with ONE lover only)
  • Polysexual (desire or capacity to share sex with more than one lover, not necessarily group sex)

RELATIONSHIP MODEL
  • monogamous shape (desire to participate in a relationship model with ONLY 2 people in it. Married or not)
  • polygamous shape (desire to participate in a relationship model with more than 2 people in it -- married or dating or whatever it is.)

So at the end you ought to have (3) words to describe you -- for your preferred way to share love, share sex, and what relating shape it comes in.

She could do the same.

Then you can determine if you match up or not and if you are

  • staying the same shape but continuing richer for having had the conversation and knowing each other better
  • changing shapes and continuing in a new way (ex: open to poly, break up and be friends, etc)
  • no longer continuing at all in any shape (ex: break up and never speak again.)

If the bottom line is that you have no desire at all to go there, and you know this NOW? Rather than putting it off letting her know you could be up front about right now. Limit reached. No. Not willing to participate in a polyship with your GF. It isn't your thing, and that's totally fine.

Discernment may be hard to FEEL. But sorting yourself out is just sorting yourself out in your thoughts and what you want to do next.

Let yourself calm down first if your head is spinning. Do your self care. THEN go about sorting yourself out from a cool headed place. You can do this!

GL!
Galagirl
 
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"But before all that you could figure out what YOU are"

But I think there lies the crux of my problem. I'm NOT sure if I'm cut out for a Polyamorous relationship or not. It's not been something I've aspired to. I know a lot of our views are shaped by experiences and society around us and I'm willing to entertain the possibility. But it's very scary when you're the one being asked to travel the greatest distance.

Of course my friend isn't me but we have a lot of similar views. Of course his experiences are his and specific to him, but it's hard not to have some of that play in my head when I had a front row seat to the pain it put him through and tearing apart of his family. Most relationships fail for multiple reasons and I'm sure there's a lot more to it that just the poly issue.

She and I have had several conversations about this. They have been very good and very open. I'm just looking for more info from people who may have went through this from my side. I'm looking for some reassurances that it gets better. Because right now it's rough. It's been basically two weeks since this all came up. I've been doing some reading and research, but wanted some human stories.

You're getting a very fresh emotional expression from me right now. It's not all rational and it's not at all figured out. But I expect others have dealt with that before. I just feel VERY alone and not really able to discuss this with many people. So I turned to google and found you.

Bottom line, I love this girl. I know if we go down this road and it doesn't work it will devastate me. I have waited quite sometime in my life to find a true partner. I hate to think it's a perfect match expect in the one way I might ultimately need but have no way of knowing at this point. But that's life.Only way to the other side is going through.

All I know is I'm willing to take this journey but it scares the hell out of me.
 
I feel you. I felt the same way. I was always afraid of being left or of not being loved as much as I loved my partner. It took me a while to get past my fears and didn't really until I spent some quality time figuring out exactly what I was afraid of and talked to him about it. A lot. I had to work on my fears myself, and even started seeing a counselor to help with that, and he spent time reassuring me and helping me adjust between us. Don't be afraid to ask for help if you need it and ask her for help as well. You'll be amazed at how much her loving willingness to help you will make a difference.
 
I have to point out the logical fallacy. You are afraid if you open up the relationship, you may lose her. What makes you think if the relationship stays closed you won't?
 
bookbug, again, I'm not talking straight logic. But let me thread the needle of my thought process just a bit for you. It's not that I couldn't lose her in a "closed" relationship. My past experiences have proven my ability to become single. My fear comes from inviting someone into what feels like a safe space and having to trust that they won't steal her away. That they won't undermind me and our relationship. That they are enlightened and want us to succeed. It feels a bit like letting the wolf into the hen house. Again, I'm not saying that everything I'm feeling is me at my best or pure logic. But it is based on some of my personal experiences.

So a "closed" relationship feels safer because there's just one person to deal with. Of course life is always messier and the devil is in the details.
 
SouthernGal, thanks! It helps to hear. I know she's worth the risk. It's still just a bit new and scary.
 
bookbug, again, I'm not talking straight logic. But let me thread the needle of my thought process just a bit for you. It's not that I couldn't lose her in a "closed" relationship. My past experiences have proven my ability to become single. My fear comes from inviting someone into what feels like a safe space and having to trust that they won't steal her away. That they won't undermind me and our relationship. That they are enlightened and want us to succeed. It feels a bit like letting the wolf into the hen house. Again, I'm not saying that everything I'm feeling is me at my best or pure logic. But it is based on some of my personal experiences.

So a "closed" relationship feels safer because there's just one person to deal with. Of course life is always messier and the devil is in the details.

That is not a completely illogical answer - which is why I asked the question, btw. :) In opening up, you would have to trust in your gf's ability to manage more than one relationship. Has she thought about the practical application of doing so? The devil IS in the details. It is a lot more complicated than knowing she can love two people at the same time. The daily grind can be demanding, and because she is the hinge, a lot of responsibility would fall on her.

The other issue is trusting her not to choose some guy who is cowboy - someone looking to make a mono woman out of her. (Doesn't sound like she would be interested in that scenario given her history.)
 
I guess I have less worry about a guy stealing her away as much as undermining our relationship. I have a lot of faith in her. Less so in other men in general. Of course, I feel a lot less stress over the guy she has feelings for that is already poly. It's the other guy I have some concerns about. But that's really a drop in the bucket.

"The devil IS in the details. It is a lot more complicated than knowing she can love two people at the same time. The daily grind can be demanding, and because she is the hinge, a lot of responsibility would fall on her."

You have expressed my concern better than I have been able to. I worry about feeling less loved. I will get less of the pie. Her heart may have the same feelings for me, but she will be dividing her available time in smaller chunks. It's just math. Now I know I can find a secondary person as well, but I feel that keeping one woman happy is a big enough challenge that the thought of two makes me feel tired. I remember the days when I was younger and dated multiple women. It sounds exhausting to me now. There's a part of me that feels like, "Great, now I have the chance to disappoint TWO women!"

Anyway, I'm not sure how it will all work out, but I really appreciate your words. It's uncharted territory for me. So I thank you all for your wisdom. It still might not be my thing when it's all said and done, but I'm willing to try and see.
 
GalaGirl, thanks for the links! I'm working through them now. Lots of information to digest, but good info. I'm grateful to you for sharing them.
 
You are welcome. I am glad it was useful to you.

Here's the bits that popped out at me:
My fear comes from inviting someone into what feels like a safe space and having to trust that they won't steal her away. That they won't undermind me and our relationship. That they are enlightened and want us to succeed.

This seems like "fear of the unknown stranger" -- and I sometimes have that anxiety too. I note how you feel more comfortable with the already poly guy and not the non-poly guy. Is it because you perceive him as having "poly skills?"

I know my partner. I know how he works and what he is capable of. A wild card stranger -- I do not. It takes TIME to know them and how they move in the world. What their intentions and character might be. That's the price of admission to getting to know new people, right?

You could talk to your hinge or to your potential meta to lay out reasonable expectations of each other and yourself during a transition time.

Maybe that could lessen the fear?

But I think there lies the crux of my problem. I'm NOT sure if I'm cut out for a Polyamorous relationship or not. It's not been something I've aspired to. I know a lot of our views are shaped by experiences and society around us and I'm willing to entertain the possibility.

To me that reads as...

Polyship? I don't know if it is for me. I am willing to try. But at this time...

  • I don't know that I have the skills to be ABLE to execute it well.
  • I don't know that my partner has the skills to be ABLE to execute it well.
  • I don't know that my potential metamour has the skills to be ABLE to execure it well.

It doesn't seem to be about "willingness" here. But about "ability" to execute well and if required, ability to handle a break up without "devastation."

You could sort out you. And since she's here, help her sort out her. Then the only wildcard is the meta and sort with them next when they appear on the scene. Agree on a non-devastating break up plan if it comes to pass.

Could accept you cannot have it ALL sorted right now, but perhaps doing some of that work and REDUCING the load you would have to sort later could help ease your burden now? You could take comfort that it is not complete, but it IS moving forward?

All I know is I'm willing to take this journey but it scares the hell out of me.

Of course. Anything new is sometimes scary. :eek:

Who do you need comfort and reassurance from? You? Her? The potential metamour? All the above?

I worry about feeling less loved. I will get less of the pie. Her heart may have the same feelings for me, but she will be dividing her available time in smaller chunks. It's just math.

No, not just math to me. That is assessing human and non-human resources for the new thing.

Time, money, bedroom/living spaces/cars -- those kinds of non-human resources could factor in.

Intrapersonal skills, interpersonal skills -- those kinds of human resources could factor in.

You seem to be saying "I would like my GF to demonstrate loving behavior toward me by making time to spend with me. "

What about the next part of that?

"I would want _____ amount of time each week just with me so can know I am loved, valued and we can connect."

It's good you are doing that -- being realistic about the future lay of the land. That in itself is a good thing -- some people just jump in without thinking out what their way of going will be for dating, problem solving, time management, conflict resolution, etc.

Or what resources they have to hand to be doing it with.

Continue to do your self care so you can be calmer, and then keep thinking things out like you are -- one thing at a time, practical things, realistic things, etc.

Nobody says you have to Open this minute. She could enjoy her crushes while sorting with you -- and it may take a while to get your boundaries and agreements laid out.

Don't skimp on it just because she's in a rush to date a crush. It will either still be there or not. Or if she's not in a rush or under "whooshy!" feelings, but it is you who feel "whooshy" emotional flooding.... don't project your own sense of urgency to this and distort it.

It's important, yes. But it is not important AND urgent. There's no fire. ;) You can handle this in your own good time... so could take the time to assess well.

  • Deal with the emotional flooding first.
  • Then deal with the sorting of boundaries and agreements if you are both willing and able to go there. (If you find either of you or both of you are not able yet, take a time out to become able and grow whatever skills need growing first.)

You can think this out and make your decisions. You can handle this. You will be ok.

Hang in there!

Galagirl
 
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It doesn't seem to be about "willingness" here. But about "ability" to execute well and if required, ability to handle a break up without "devastation."

Actually, seeing how you express it makes me feel a bit better. It's not in my skill set as of right now. I am willing to make this work to the best of my ability, but it's a lot of unknowns right now. And you are correct. The unknown is scary.

As for not being devastated, I'm not really sure how to do that. Truly giving my heart to another person is huge for me. If that comes to an end, it's going to destroy me a bit. It always has and I'm not sure I've changed that much for it not to. When you plan a future and intertwine your lives together, that's a painful break no matter how you plan for it. At least it is for me. I'm a hopeless romantic. I view the world in broader strokes and softer camera focuses. So if this ends it will be painful and it will be awful. That's just what I signed up for when I gave her my heart. I will still be a functional adult though. Because that is also what I do. I choose complicated women. That's been the price of admission. But hey, maybe this time...

Singing in Seattle
 
I am glad you feel a bit better.

I don't know what other things you want to grow in ability, but coping with big disappointment/grief definitely comes up for you a few times. The only way to avoid the risk of breaking up with people is to not date at all. So really you have taken the risk already as the price of admission to dating. Not just her, but dating in general.

As for not being devastated, I'm not really sure how to do that. Truly giving my heart to another person is huge for me. If that comes to an end, it's going to destroy me a bit. It always has and I'm not sure I've changed that much for it not to. When you plan a future and intertwine your lives together, that's a painful break no matter how you plan for it.

Of course it is painful.

It's not about avoiding ALL pain and making it ZERO pain. It is about REDUCING pain to minimal if it has to happen, and really it's one of the most loving things one can do.

I don't know how YOU do it. I know how I do it.

Me? Should it happen, I don't want to be up the creek without a paddle -- no plan, dealing with emotional upset, etc. Between
  • upset and no plan and added stress of making plan while upset with upset partner

OR

  • upset with plan made while we were calm to hand to help move it forward OUT of the upset?
I'll take upset with plan to move it forward!

And the process of planning it so it can go well? In my experience it actually draws people closer and it is reassuring. Ups the odds of it not being needed and ups the odds if it going well if it ever IS needed.

Because who wants and loves to experience a break up going WONKY?

Could learning about the grief process help demystify it not be so scary? Could google "stages of grief."

Could you be willing to talk to her about "how we want to break up... if we have to break up? What kind of exes will we be?" Or you need to talk about it with yourself more or others first before talking with her?

Could listing what other abilities/resources you would like to have before going there help? Or abilities/resources you would like her to have?

Hang in there! Keep thinking your stuff out.

GL!
Galagirl
 
Thanks. I actually worked a lot through the stages of grief four years ago when my relationship of almost seven years ended. Knowing the stages and letting myself grieve was important but it only gave me a road map of what might happen and how to deal with it. It still was very devastating. Understanding helps, but break ups tie in someways to losing my mom at a young age. It's gotten better over the years, but I still have some abandonment issues. Knowing helps, but it doesn't always fix everything. That seems to be a life long process. Life tends to damage us all in small and big ways. I think the trick is acknowledging your demons and coming to peace that they will always be there in some way. They just don't have to define you.

You have been incredibly generous with your words and wisdom. I know the path is still mine to walk, but everyone has been very helpful. A heartfelt thanks!

Singing in Seattle
 
I think the trick is acknowledging your demons and coming to peace that they will always be there in some way. They just don't have to define you.

Yup.

Giving yourself permission to move on past it.

You don't have to forget it, or get over it. But you don't have to keep it in right in front of you blocking the view either.

You could set it down, move yourself forward and get past it and move on to living the rest of your life without it clouding things. If you want to go back to visit it, you know where it lives. But you don't have to carry it around!

Is that part of your plan-in-progress now? To seek counseling to come to terms with that and become able to lay it down? That could be a helpful thing.

Galagirl
 
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Ok, so huge step for me today. I could tell something has been a little off with my girlfriend. After a year and a half I can sense her emotional state. It took a while to get the conversation going, but she finally opened up. She was trying to respect my need to go slow and not force me to confront the feelings she has for two other guys right now. (Let's call them NY Boy and Poly Guy to keep in simple and anon.) But seeing her in pain trumped any concern I have for my comfort zone.

I've had the most concern about NY Boy. I was never really sold on his intentions and he's a drummer! So last night he really hurt with somethings he said. I believe that he thought on some level he could keep getting closer to my GF and then win her away. Now that I'm back home and haven't ran for the hills with everything changing, I believe the reality is setting in for him. So he's acting out a bit and trying to "protect his heart" by hurting hers.

This is where I'm proud of myself. She was able to express her pain and frustration with what he's doing. I didn't feel defensive. I didn't go into any passive aggressive "well that's what you get" bullshit. I just listened and sympathized with the girl I love who was in pain. It actually surprised me a bit. I thought it would be much more difficult to hear her expressing love for another guy.

Maybe there's hope for us! :)

Singing in Seattle
 
Kudos on the self discipline!

Esp on not taking it personally or getting defensive (adding to your own load) or let your emotions take the spotlight.

When she came to you for help, you were able to keep the spotlight focus on her and her problems and what she might need at this time (ex: an ear, comfort, support.) And in providing the need (comfort, support) you were able to help lessen and TAKE AWAY from her load rather than ADD to her load.

Sounds like both of you came out of it in a good way.

WTG! :)

GG
 
Thanks! As I said, I was surprised I handled it was well as I did. I guess the unknown is scarier than the reality. There's still a lot of ground to cover, but it feels just a bit less overwhelming today.

On a selfish note, it would be easier for me if it was only one guy to adjust to. At least at this early stage. And Poly Guy is actually pretty cool and I can see how he is good for her. Also, he understands my journey and is willing to give us both the time we need to make this transition. And I believe he will remain her friend and confidant regardless of what happens. While NY Boy is exciting, I worry about him in the mix while this is still so new. But ultimately she needs to come to her own conclusions. Though she does feel like he has been misrepresenting his true intentions and seems close to ending it with him. But I'll keep out of it unless asked.

Thanks again GG. You have been a calming voice in the midst of my brian storm the last few days.

SeaSing
 
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