flagging belief in poly

gorgeouskitten

New member
Hey all, haven't written a lot lately. A lot has happened in the last year. I am currently having issues with my own spouse (not about being poly) while after a yaer and a half, still very much in love with my boyfriend. Ive tried having both as primaries...and its hard, maybe too hard? When it comes down to it with my spouse and I being disconnected I'd rather have just my boyfriend, and maybe that's part of the problem.

Here is the thing, lately every poly couple I know is splitting up. My poly therapist is getting divorced, my friend who was such a big support and a swinger doesn't want to swing anymore after getting so jealous at her hubs last outing, my boyfriends marriage fell apart....honestly the list goes on. Im not sure I can/want to do this anymore. Being mono with the BF isn't an option...and I don't want to be with hubs (not right now anyway). It bothers be very much when my boyfriend dates. I fear I only became poly to avoid a crumbling marriage.

Any input on how I could still see poly as this great thing in all this?
 
How was poly so great to begin with?

When a relationship is not working, playing around with being poly does not fix it. I am poly because that is how my brain works, not because I want to sleep around. If you are wanting sex, then have sex... if you want relationships of any type, .. go do it... be honest... be trust worthy... be who you really are.

I am still polyamorus even if I am celibate.
I think those who are- love and affection monogamous, are still, even when they have plural sex partners.
 
I thought it was how my brains wired too...but now im thinking, maybe only sexually. Its the multiples loves tripping me up.
 
I thought it was how my brains wired too...but now im thinking, maybe only sexually. Its the multiples loves tripping me up.

Defining philosophies and worldviews can change, for some of us they change dramatically several times throughout our lives. Who knows, maybe the idea of poly was right on target for you when you were in that emotional place and you have found yourself in another and need to reassess.

I wouldn't read much into it but that... you are in a place of self-evaluation.

lately every poly couple I know is splitting up. My poly therapist is getting divorced, my friend who was such a big support and a swinger doesn't want to swing anymore after getting so jealous at her hubs last outing, my boyfriends marriage fell apart....honestly the list goes on. Im not sure I can/want to do this anymore.

I don't see one thing having anything to do with another. It sounds like you are having doubts about wanting a poly association and are using the fact that you know of other non-monogamous relationships that are also not working as support for your doubts. I suggest focusing on what is or is not working for *you* and leave the relationships of the world to their own devices.

My experience is that relationships don't last for a lifetime. Mono relationships don't, and poly relationships don't. I suppose it's possible that someone meets another person, becomes romantic with them, and they miraculously grow in perfect unison throughout their entire existence and never break up or have to change the nature of their association fundamentally... but I'm not using that as a "common" example lol
 
Hi Kitten,

I try to look at poly in terms of the health level of each individual relationship rather than the act of being poly itself. I do think that of course there can be an overlap... losing yourself in one person can create damage in another relationship, for example. But if a relationship already has cracks, poly (like anything else) can either highlight the cracks or help to blend them together. I don't feel that poly itself helps a relationship, but the positive things that can come from it, such as increased awareness of oneself, communication, freedom, strength, etc. However, such things can be achieved in monogamous relationships too.

I really don't think that poly is a magic pill that will keep couples together. Most people I know are monogamous and I've seen most of them go through breakups and divorces. Breakups are about a lack of compatibility / giving up / being unhappy / something not working - I don't think it makes a difference whether one is poly or mono.

However, I do hear you and it sounds to me that you have struggled so much with jealousy that you are exhausted, perhaps scared, and perhaps not wanting to carry on facing what feels like an uphill struggle. I absolutely understand that.

After browsing through some of your old posts, I wonder if part of your feeling is that you are 'free' of hubby, Nudge is 'free' of his wife, who you seemed to struggle with and perhaps saw as the 'enemy' for a while there, and now you're seeing an opportunity to have each other all to yourselves? Though I also see that you say being mono with Nudge isn't an option.

It may be true that you only became poly to avoid a crumbling marriage. It's ok if you did. You were trying what you wanted to try at the time. I've come across various OKCupid profiles on my trawls where the owners of the profiles have said that they have tried both mono and poly and would consider either in the future. For them, it depends on trying things out.

I do empathise with your poly struggles. Poly can be difficult for me too, so I understand.

I can't be an advocate for poly and I can't be an advocate for monogamy. In past monogamous relationships, I have experienced a lot of cheating and mistrust. I was plagued by jealousy when I was mono. Having the 'security' of monogamy meant nothing in the end. In poly, I struggle with control, jealousy and insecurity. What that tells me, however, is that the problem is with me, not with the relationship model I choose. If I want to trust a mono or poly partner, I have to work on my own trust issues, and so forth. I think it's about knowing your own boundaries. Just food for thought.

Whether you continue to be poly is really down to you and you alone. You have to ask yourself what, if any, values ring true to you about poly. For me personally, it's about possession - I just can't believe in owning another person by controlling their heart. It's their heart, not mine. I certainly don't feel like I was born poly or am 'wired' that way. My GF on the other hand believes that she was born to be poly and that she's wired that way. It's different for everyone.

Also, I feel that whether poly or mono works is down to how well two people work together. For instance, I find poly tons easier when I have a partner who is extremely empathetic, sensitive, kind, committed, honest and wants to spend quality time together. On the other hand, I find poly extremely difficult if I have a partner that doesn't consider my feelings (different to bowing down to my feelings), that lies or omits, that can't balance well, that lacks empathy, and that doesn't care about quality time together because they are chasing the new person. Do you feel like your boyfriend offers practically everything you want in a partner, but feel stuck because he wants to be poly? Do you struggle with poly despite him dealing with it wonderfully?

Overall, there is nothing at all wrong with deciding that you don't want to be poly any more. If you do, or are unsure, I would suggest thinking about what you identify with in poly, perhaps reading some books (I really like Polyamory Roadmaps - I'm not a fan of Ethical Slut) and articles, and give yourself time to think it through.
 
Maybe you're just noticing all the poly breakups because of your headspace. It's not like all the monos are doing such a bang-up job of it either...

My question is... why the attachment to poly identity if you don't feel it's working? Poly is just a label. There's no point getting attached to a label if the associated behaviour and feelings don't flow naturally.

Focus instead on what you'd like out of life, what your needs are. Then look at strategies to meet those needs. If poly makes sense as one of those strategies then giv'er. But either way, just do what feels right for you.
 
It sounds like you're falling into the "just because the relationship is ending means it was a failure" trap. I see poly as being true to who you are and open to opportunities, not as a mandatory "I must have relationships with other people" nor as a "superior way of having a relationship".

It's possible that you and your spouse are done, but it's also possible that you and your spouse are just entering a new relationship phase. Only you can answer that. But at least in the context of poly you have the freedom to answer that without the "I have to end this before trying anything else" catch 22...
 
Maybe you're just noticing all the poly breakups because of your headspace. It's not like all the monos are doing such a bang-up job of it either...

My question is... why the attachment to poly identity if you don't feel it's working? Poly is just a label. There's no point getting attached to a label if the associated behaviour and feelings don't flow naturally.

Focus instead on what you'd like out of life, what your needs are. Then look at strategies to meet those needs. If poly makes sense as one of those strategies then giv'er. But either way, just do what feels right for you.

I have to agree with Schroedinger. I have never labeled myself mono or poly. I would probably label myself "whatever works." (AKA as INTJ in some circles. :p). What it sounds like to me, is that whatever is going on right now is not working for you. You don't have to commit yourself to a label or specific configuration. So may be focus specifically on the details. What is working in each relationship and what isn't.
 
I'm not sure I can/want to do this anymore.

Well, your willingness to participate is allowed to change/evolve over time. Nobody is static.

You ability to keep doing it can also change as resources change (ex: time, money, energy) and willingness changes.

Being mono with the BF isn't an option...

WHICH mono? Monoamorous with your BF? Or monogamous?
  • because he doesn't want to Close?
  • Because you don't want a divorce?
  • Other reasons?

and I don't want to be with hubs (not right now anyway).

  • Is this chronic or more a feeling that will pass once you solve whatever the problems are that you are having right now together?
  • Are you inclined to wait and see or not?

It bothers be very much when my boyfriend dates.

  • Is it because you want more attention/support right now from BF as you face problems in the (you + husband) layer?
  • Or because you prefer to relate in a Closed relationship at this time and not deal in new metas?
  • BOTH?
  • Something else?

I fear I only became poly to avoid a crumbling marriage.

  • Do you mean you have come to understand/know this consciously at this point in time and credit polyshiping with bringing it to light?
  • Or do you mean that you knew it all along but are more ready to "own" it at this point in time?
  • What would you like to do? Do you want to end the marriage?

Any input on how I could still see poly as this great thing in all this?

What stopped being great about poly for you? :confused: You do not articulate.

It's part of the price of admission to relating with other people to risk that you will change, feelings will change. So will all the other players -- you do not exist in a silo. The shape of the relationship (monoships, polyships, etc) doesn't really matter. In all of the shapes -- the individuals can grow together or can grow apart.

I think could be sensitive to the relationships around you that are drawing to a close right now, and not noticing those that are thriving or just starting out. But THOSE relationships are not YOUR relationships, so could focus on dealing with the ones you have to deal with.

Without know what your purpose is in relating with these folks -- it's hard to give better feedback. But I'm very sorry you are struggling right now and I hope you feel better for airing out a bit.

Hang in there,

Galagirl
 
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All of your answers were so incredibly helpful and supportive I want to quote and reply to each one! I am so very glad to have people on this board. I want to try to hit some of the questions I can without boring you all.

I agree with everyone I need to figure out what I want with or without each man and I don't have to go, im poly! or im mono! cause maybe how I identify is about the relationship I'm in and not who I am. I also agree with you all I shouldn't be down on poly cause other people are divorcing/closing, cause I alos know plenty of mono relationships falling apart. Actually I think Nudge's was before they were poly (and mine too).

TO answer SPARKLEPOP's question: Do you feel like your boyfriend offers practically everything you want in a partner, but feel stuck because he wants to be poly? Do you struggle with poly despite him dealing with it wonderfully?

Yes and no. My boyfriend is good about relationships...but when I felt better with hubs, he would work with me to set boundries and guidelines that made us comfortable. Nudge wont do that, he will say his dating will not infringe on our time together but I can ask for nothing else. Could we not see other people while we are bothing straightening out our marriages? I haven't asked because with him, I always fear I can not pin him down on anything.

Yes, reference to old posts...always had an issue with his wife, he sees why now (though I have nothing to do with their demise)

GALAGIRL: Id take monoamorous or monagomous with BF (cant spell today). Well, I have kids...he doesn't. it cause a big gap between us. Also I think we'd both be a long way from an actual "split" with our partners. but if he asked me to move in with him....would I? Probably. but im not positive. He also says he has a bad taste in his mouth right now for mono

You hit the nail on his head with not dealing with new Metas (re BF dating). I had such a bad experience with his wife...I cant handle other women coming into his life right now. And because we have nothing but words binding us together, I don't feel entirely secure. My therapist even agrees I give him more security than he does me. lol

I think I new I was using poly as a bandaid. My spouse and my troubles go far back...many years. His depression mostly...we've almost divorced twice already and this stand off is time number 3. I don't know if I want that to end....I don't feel very romantic with him, but I care for him, I enjoy his friendship, and raising our children together.

My BF I don't want to loose at all. after a year and a half im so freakin in love with him. I do feel guilty Ive let that surpass my marriage but I was already more into him than my spouse when I asked to be poly.

Again, thanks to all of you <3
 
I don't know if I want that to end....I don't feel very romantic with him, but I care for him, I enjoy his friendship, and raising our children together.

So maybe changing the format of the relationship? End the marriage and begin again as friends and co-parents. With or without living together, depending on how you both feel about that.
 
So maybe changing the format of the relationship? End the marriage and begin again as friends and co-parents. With or without living together, depending on how you both feel about that.

I could work that, he'd be pretty upset about it. While Im ok if he doesn't want romance with me and want to be his friends, he seems to be of the mind he doesn't want my friendship if we don't have romance
 
I could work that, he'd be pretty upset about it. While Im ok if he doesn't want romance with me and want to be his friends, he seems to be of the mind he doesn't want my friendship if we don't have romance

So you've already discussed with hub your exit plan, so to speak? It is possible at this time his lack of desire for friendship is him reacting to the pain of the reality of how you feel, at least what you have told him so far on how you feel regarding your marriage. It is possible after the hurt of you not wanting to be with him, he may see friendship is worth more than loosing you entirely.
 
I have to agree with Schroedinger. I have never labeled myself mono or poly. I would probably label myself "whatever works." (AKA as INTJ in some circles. :p). What it sounds like to me, is that whatever is going on right now is not working for you. You don't have to commit yourself to a label or specific configuration. So may be focus specifically on the details. What is working in each relationship and what isn't.

I agree... but I am another INTJ. I have kind of stopped worrying about labels recently. I just enjoy and manage my relationships.

I find myself currently in a polyamourous situation currently. My having two husbands and everything that goes along with it works at the moment. It is a lot of work and takes effort from all sides. If something happened between Butch and I and it was just Murf and myself I could easily be monogamous with him.

Does it mean I do not love Butch? That he is not as important in my life as Murf. No. I will admit Murf and I just go together very well. But Butch will shove my ass beyond my happy little INTJ bubble. He is good for me in his own way. We have been through hell and high water together. That man has put up with more shit from me. But our relationship takes A LOT of work.

Life changes.... You are going to have to decide what is worth the fight. Is Nudge honestly going to be able to give you the stability and support you crave. He has told you flat out that there will be no shackles placed upon him or his relationships. He knows who he is and what he wants and needs.
 
I agree... but I am another INTJ. I have kind of stopped worrying about labels recently. I just enjoy and manage my relationships.

I find myself currently in a polyamourous situation currently. My having two husbands and everything that goes along with it works at the moment. It is a lot of work and takes effort from all sides. If something happened between Butch and I and it was just Murf and myself I could easily be monogamous with him.

Does it mean I do not love Butch? That he is not as important in my life as Murf. No. I will admit Murf and I just go together very well. But Butch will shove my ass beyond my happy little INTJ bubble. He is good for me in his own way. We have been through hell and high water together. That man has put up with more shit from me. But our relationship takes A LOT of work.

Life changes.... You are going to have to decide what is worth the fight. Is Nudge honestly going to be able to give you the stability and support you crave. He has told you flat out that there will be no shackles placed upon him or his relationships. He knows who he is and what he wants and needs.

I've thought of you Dag cause I know you have co-primaries. Im guessing the difference for you is the guys totally know and are on board with being co-primaries/husbands however you want to call it :) I don't think my spouse has really thought about, until now, how I now have co-primaries. Not that we never discussed it....he nows IM a primary to Nudge, but im not sure he realized HE is also one to me. Things happened that made him realize I have a better sexual connection with nudge....aside from all our other issues. I fear having to totally lay it out for him that I have a deep romance with Nudge, and more of a companionship with him.

Hubs has suggested no sex for a few weeks while we sort things out....with anyone. I feel this is a bit unfair to me and Nudge, cause Hubs is the one not wanting ME not the other way around. I'll have sex with him, he just finds it to be unromantic.
 
Have you tried dating your husband as much and you date Nudge?

IE time alone without the kids even if it is to go out to lunch and just reconnect.

Or are you falling into the trap of Nudge gets to get to do all the fun stuff and your husband gets the daily grind? Do you make your hubby feel like he is the booby prize? Meaning that you would rather spend your time out with Nudge and he is just fill in?

Trust me I understand the allure. Murf has no kids of his own. When Butch is off and so is Murf I am kid free. We can go out and do the fun things I can't do a lot of the time with Butch because my closest family is over 10 hours away in Cincinnati and sitters are expensive. Murf had a bit more disposable income due to having no children. It is tempting to go and be free.

But I had forgotten to keep dating Butch too. And that was MY fault. We had gotten to be like a lot of couples. We were Mom and Dad and had forgotten to be Dagferi and Butch.

Now Murf and I have the kids most of the time. We can not just jump on the Harley and go where ever when the weather is nice. You know what we are still enjoying our life.

Last Saturday we went to a flea market. Squirrel saw a hot wheels car that looks like a car Murf owns. He had to buy it for Murf with his own money. He ran all the way back to Murf and was proud as punch to give it to him. It touched Murf. Again life changes and we have to make adjustments.

Now Murf is looking to sell his Harley. It is gathering dust in the garage. It doesn't fit our life. He instead bought a 4 door 1968 Chevelle that is more kid friendly. A car he will not cringe about in all weather unlike our show classic cars. It is fun just to go out for a ride with the kids. I didn't ask him to do so. He chose to do so. Plans are made with the kids included and around their schedules.

Would Nudge be open to taking the kids out with you all on a regular basis to give your hubby a break and time to himself?
 
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So... I think I am hearing these things in your previous posts. Is this where it is right now? Correct me if I am wrong:

RELATIONSHIP WITH SELF
  • I think I new I was using poly as a bandaid.

RELATIONSHIP WITH HUSBAND
  • This is our third time almost divorcing.
  • I want to be free of marriage problems.
  • I'd be ok being free of the marriage if he'd still be friends after.
  • I care for him.
  • I enjoy his friendship and would like to maintain it.
  • I enjoy coparenting with him.
  • I don't feel romantic with my husband and would like to let that part go.
  • I fear telling husband that I have companionate love for him
  • I fear telling husband that I have a romantic/passion type love for Nudge

RELATIONSHIP WITH BOYFRIEND
  • I am more into BF than husband romantically.
  • I'd rather have just my boyfriend
  • My BF says his dating will not infringe on our time together but I can ask for nothing else
  • I fear I can not pin him down on anything so I haven't asked him to consider temporarily not date new people (just date existing people) while I deal with my marriage problems to help reduce my stress load.
  • If he asked me to move in with him I would
  • My having kids had caused a big gap between us before
    If he wanted to be monogamous, (me and him relating only, no other people in this rship) I would.
  • If he wanted me to be monoamorous (me love him only) I would.

Galagirl
 
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So... I think I am hearing these things in your previous posts. Is this where it is right now? Correct me if I am wrong:

HUSBAND
  • This is our third time almost divorcing.
  • I want to be free of marriage problems
  • I'd be ok being free of the marriage if he'd still be friends after.
  • I care for him.
  • I enjoy his friendship and would like to maintain it.
  • I enjoy coparenting with him.
  • I don't feel romantic with my husband and would like to let that part go.
  • I fear telling husband that I have companionate love for him
  • I fear telling husband that I have a romantic/passion type love for Nudge

BOYFRIEND
  • I am more into BF than husband romantically.
  • My BF says his dating will not infringe on our time together but I can ask for nothing else
  • I fear I can not pin him down on anything so I haven't asked him to consider temporarily not date new people (just date existing people) while I deal with my marriage problems to help reduce my stress load.
  • If he asked me to move in with him I would
  • My having kids had caused a big gap between us before
    If he wanted to be monogamous, (me and him relating only, no other people in this rship) I would.
  • If he wanted me to be monoamorous (me love him only) I would.

Galagirl

Yeah, pretty much :) nice summer thanks. Though im not 100% I want to drop romance with spouse, or that I want mono with BF. On the bit about not dating other people, the reason I wont ask him is he is seeing no one besides me, so its not fair to be working on relationship with my spouse and tellin him to have no one else. But yes, it would reduce my stress greatly.
 
If it reduces your stress greatly to ask, ASK.

He's free to consider and tell you he won't do it and say NO. But if he doesn't even know you might want this, he isn't going to divine it from the sky. People are not mind readers.

You could rewrite the summary for yourself and "trying it on" by making the statements as statements rather than questions.

"Do I want to end the marriage?" becomes

  • NO. I do not want to end the marriage.
  • YES. I want to end the marriage.

Could try it on both ways and see how it makes you feel each way. The same with the other sentences you are not sure about. Sounds like you are trying to think your way through and discern what it is you want.

Keep going.

Galagirl
 
Have you tried dating your husband as much and you date Nudge?

IE time alone without the kids even if it is to go out to lunch and just reconnect.

Or are you falling into the trap of Nudge gets to get to do all the fun stuff and your husband gets the daily grind? Do you make your hubby feel like he is the booby prize? Meaning that you would rather spend your time out with Nudge and he is just fill in?

Trust me I understand the allure. Murf has no kids of his own. When Butch is off and so is Murf I am kid free. We can go out and do the fun things I can't do a lot of the time with Butch because my closest family is over 10 hours away in Cincinnati and sitters are expensive. Murf had a bit more disposable income due to having no children. It is tempting to go and be free.

But I had forgotten to keep dating Butch too. And that was MY fault. We had gotten to be like a lot of couples. We were Mom and Dad and had forgotten to be Dagferi and Butch.

Now Murf and I have the kids most of the time. We can not just jump on the Harley and go where ever when the weather is nice. You know what we are still enjoying our life.

Last Saturday we went to a flea market. Squirrel saw a hot wheels car that looks like a car Murf owns. He had to buy it for Murf with his own money. He ran all the way back to Murf and was proud as punch to give it to him. It touched Murf. Again life changes and we have to make adjustments.

Now Murf is looking to sell his Harley. It is gathering dust in the garage. It doesn't fit our life. He instead bought a 4 door 1968 Chevelle that is more kid friendly. A car he will not cringe about in all weather unlike our show classic cars. It is fun just to go out for a ride with the kids. I didn't ask him to do so. He chose to do so. Plans are made with the kids included and around their schedules.

Would Nudge be open to taking the kids out with you all on a regular basis to give your hubby a break and time to himself?

Thanks for responding Dag! Hubs and I got in a habit of getting high and watching movies....and that was about it. Nudge has no kids, and lots more money. So time with Nudge is concerts and dinners out etc. and time with hubs is chillin at home after the kids are in bed. We rarely go out, like you we have no sitters. Nudge has just recently watched the kids for us to go out, but they are very overwhelming for him. I think that's life in evolution there.

I do get on better with Nudge, like you with Murf. I guess it could grow and change...I can try working things out with Hubs and just see what happens. We have a lot of baggage, hes super jealous about the things nudge and I do, he has crippling depression ive seen him through for 15 years, and our sexual problems are long standing.
 
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