Boundaries crossed - not sure if I'm okay - how do I respond?

habitat

New member
Hey there everybody. Newbie here. :eek:

Apologies for the post length. If I've breeched any UAs, please let me know - I'd be happy to edit as appropriate.

I've got some questions about how to deal with boundaries. Any thoughts, experience or advice is appreciated. Thanks.

A quick introduction: I am a female, and woman identifying. My partner, let's call him Pretty, and I have been seriously dating for six months. We are both queer. When pressed to use labels, I am pansexual (note, not bisexual) and he is pansexual/genderqueer. Because this is all still relatively new to us, all of Pretty's sustained relationships so far have been with women, though he has had intimate encounters with men and male-bodied people. Most, but not all, of my relationships have been with men. We use female pronouns for Pretty when we are in safe spaces, behind closed doors. We essentially have a lesbian-esque intimacy. In bed, I have definite (but gentle, and always explicitly consensual) top tendencies that I've also explored in previous relationships, and he is becoming familiar with his bottom-ness.

Something that I was immediately upfront about is my intention to become a mother, and sole-parent by choice. Becoming a mother has always been a pillar in my identity. It's a biological imperative of mine to bear a child, and I know it's in the cards for the near future. In the fall, I will be 23 years old and will begin trying to conceive with a known sperm donor. Amazingly, Pretty has always been very supportive of this and is excited to be involved as a family member, but not as a "parent". We have talked extensively about this and I am determined to be the sole custodial parent of my child in an extended family/community network. This is the choice that is right for me. I will engage in relationships as though I were a single parent. I am reading a lot about poly family situations. I am very open about this in general, to my families and friends, and I have a lot of whole-hearted support from my community.

That's where we're at.

When we began our relationship, I came out right away as poly, and he was nervous but definitely excited, too, and agreed to try a poly dynamic. He is familiar with poly, since his best friend strongly identifies as such and has frequently discussed it with him for years. I had never had a serious poly dynamic before, so this was new for both of us. We agreed that it would take some getting used to, but that it was important to us to make the effort. We are both radical queers, though, and poly is definitely present in our radical/anti-authoritarian urban community, so it wasn't a big stretch in that sense. We dated pretty exclusively for a while, all the while being open with each other about our crushes and attractions, and we got comfy with each other before adding partners to the mix. We essentially lived together, spending at least six nights per week in my bed. We've been through a pregnancy termination together (it was mutual - we weren't prepared to be parents and it wasn't what I felt comfortable with) and we share absolutely everything. We are very much in love.

I was the first one to branch out and start having "outside" intimacies. In fact, three months into my relationship with Pretty (and about three months ago), Pretty went to visit family and I sort of accidentally gained two additional (though decidedly less "serious") partners in one week. One of them was a dear friend and potential sperm donor, let's call him Mailman - a male/man who happens to be a housemate of mine (I live in a community house of ten people). Another was a new female friend, Roo.

I confessed my crush to Roo via drunkie text at a holiday party. Smooth, right? One thing led to another, and we started to become intimate. This was comfy with Pretty, as he is admittedly less conditioned to be jealous of female partners. Then, one night while Pretty was visiting family, Mailman and I snuggled up and shared some nice kisses. It was very nice and long-awaited, but pretty tough on Pretty for a while. Boundaries stayed in tact, so Pretty was able to cope and Mailman and I were happy with that, too.

Pretty and I had one boundary - no PIV sex with other partners. We realized that this was a pretty typical hetero-normative agreement, but it nonetheless seemed like the best way to make a gradual progression without stepping on each other's toes to start. We both have ideals for a totally open situation, but neither of us were ready for that (particularly Pretty, at the time). And, since we were both doing well at coping and communicating as it was, I was happy to keep that boundary in place until further notice. I was pleasantly surprised at how smoothly it was going. Pretty was spending a night here and there cuddling and flirting with friends, while I was spending a night or two a week with another Love.

Fast forward to the present day. My relationship with Roo is evolving back into a friendship. As partners, she and I communicate in often unhealthy, opposing ways that definitely need more practice. We've decided to give it a rest and work on our connection before we decide whether we want to be sexually intimate again. I doubt that we will. We do very much care about each other and will be good friends, regardless. Mailman is harried and dealing with some stress that makes it harder for him to find time, but we are still very intimate as friends. So, in practice right now, I am essentially exclusively intimate with Pretty. All of this is okay with me. As for Pretty, he started dating a long-time crush of his, Ladybug. I like Ladybug a lot and I'm happy for them. I have been working through it as well as one could hope, I think - with a bit of jealousy and a lot of love. He is very excited about this relationship and wants to pursue it freely. I was very open to that.

Enter Drama :: The other night, he slipped and crossed our boundary with Ladybug, which has been really tough on us. Tougher than I expected. She was familiar with the boundary but apparently it got by both of them that night, and they went for it anyway. I can't stay outright mad at him - it's clear to me that the boundary didn't work for them anymore. They are falling head-over-heels and he's very passionate about her. But it would have been far more ideal of him to approach me about it first and open up a dialogue and be patient. He knows this and is obviously experiencing a lot of anxiety about it. I hate to imagine the moment where he decided that it was just okay to cross the line. I feel disrespected and hurt. He's upset that I'm upset, and wants us to be together. But he also wants to continue pursuing a sexual/PIV sex-ful relationship with Ladybug, at their pace. He says he can't make anymore promises about boundaries, etc... and isn't making any of it an option. I get this. I don't own him and he wants to act on the love he has for her, but my insecurities are getting the best of me. They've been friends for years, but as they've only been dating (and only occasionally) for two weeks, I thought I'd have more time to talk about this and work through it before they moved on to the next step. Though I understand that he has needs and wants to meet them, I feel completely powerless now - to have my comfort levels acknowledged and respected, and to ease into new things with open dialogue and a little fair warning. Then again, I know that if he had really thought that they were definitely facing that progression, and how hard it would be not to act out of passion, I trust that he would have said something. I do understand that mistakes happen. Given that I've been intimate with other partners before, I'm not sure how reasonable or unreasonable I'm being about what is really a technicality. He did come tome and confess right away, with an open honesty and sincere apology. On one hand I want to be the supportive partner, who only has love to give and only acts in love and understanding. On the other hand, I'm afraid that by "allowing" him to just pursue this in spite of the clear boundaries we'd already communicated, and my desire to go a bit slower, we will set a precedent for disrespect and disregard of my feelings. I'm not sure how to feel and I wish I knew how upset I should be getting!

My immediate impulse is to take back some control - to really turn down the volume on my relationship with Pretty and make it way more part-time, and perhaps even PIV/fluids-free. I have a three-nights-a-week scenario in mind, which would be a powerful change for us. I'm not sure if I'm acting out of resentment or common sense - he wants to seriously develop his relationship with Ladybug and I know that if I don't start weaning myself, time-wise, he will do the weaning for me. Regardless of how I might want to feel, that scares the living $%^& out of me. I'm ashamed to say that part of me just wants to be done with it, even, since I can't guarantee that my comfort levels will be taken into account, and neither can he.

But then, I LOVE HIM. I LOVE HIM. I LOVE HIM. I want him to be around and part of my family as I become pregnant, give birth and raise a child. A part of me is afraid that he's moving away from me - that he's prioritizing other relationships over keeping ours comfortable and safe, because they're more important. Maybe these are crazy thoughts, but I'm not sure.


What do people think? How could I most adequately communicate/respond/advocate for myself and our relationship? Am I being too this way or that way?
 
Ok, pardon me for not picking up on it, but was the "boundary" which was "crossed", a fluid bonding? If so, Pretty has endangered ALL of you, and my opinion, would be to cut it off for a while....but that's just me. And, if you look at any of my posts in any of my blogs, I tend to be kind of a fatalist. So...yeah...There is my opinion. Take it...or leave it. ;) Best of luck to all of you.
 
No, the "boundary" was not fluid bonding. It was protected PIV (penis-in-vagina) sex with a condom. My apologies for leaving that important detail out of the OP!
 
No worries. Maybe I missed it. (I do that from time to time)

Anyway, it really edpends on WHAT the boundary was. Also, boundaries...are there for a reason yes, however, they should be "fluid" and everyone needs to be open to the possibility that they COULD be crossed. Not that they SHOULD be crossed, but they COULD be crossed. Obviously, preferance would have it that they NOT be crossed, but it can and often DOES happen. So have forgiveness in your heart. If it happens more than once...Replace forgiveness with distrust and end the relationship, or get used to it. ;)
 
TL4everu2
No worries. Maybe I missed it. (I do that from time to time)

Anyway, it really edpends on WHAT the boundary was. Also, boundaries...are there for a reason yes, however, they should be "fluid" and everyone needs to be open to the possibility that they COULD be crossed. Not that they SHOULD be crossed, but they COULD be crossed. Obviously, preferance would have it that they NOT be crossed, but it can and often DOES happen. So have forgiveness in your heart. If it happens more than once...Replace forgiveness with distrust and end the relationship, or get used to it.

It's not that I don't recognize that the boundaries should change to fit our needs. Obviously, as I said, that particular boundary was clearly ill-fitting by that point. But we created the boundary out of mutual respect for our feelings. We explicitly stated that we would each take responsibility and open a dialogue to change the boundaries, as needed, *before acting*. My problem is that I wasn't warned and I didn't get to express my feelings beforehand.

I do forgive him, of course. He is wonderful and I understand his needs. I just want to make sure that everyone's comfortable with what's going on.
 
On the other hand, I'm afraid that by "allowing" him to just pursue this in spite of the clear boundaries we'd already communicated, and my desire to go a bit slower, we will set a precedent for disrespect and disregard of my feelings. I'm not sure how to feel and I wish I knew how upset I should be getting!

This bit stuck out at me. Have you communicated this fear to him? He sounds like a pretty decent person, who seems to have gotten caught up in NRE and the moment.

Boundaries are a give and take. He's taken already by stepping over the boundary. What do you need to feel more comfortable with his relationship with Ladybug? Ask that of him, and then set a time to review that boundary, if he feels it to be chafing. The review could be a week, two weeks, a month down the line, but it will allow you time to process, and also gives him a date that he knows such boundaries will be reviewed by, so he's not feeling trapped by you.

As for how upset you should be ... Well, you don't sound too upset with the transgression itself, more the implications of it. (i.e. continued disrespect) So, if it feels natural to let it go, then do so. If you need some time to get over it, take that time. Everyone deals with hurt differently, so don't feel like you have a quota of upsetness that you must fill. ;)
 
This bit stuck out at me. Have you communicated this fear to him? He sounds like a pretty decent person, who seems to have gotten caught up in NRE and the moment.

Boundaries are a give and take. He's taken already by stepping over the boundary. What do you need to feel more comfortable with his relationship with Ladybug? Ask that of him, and then set a time to review that boundary, if he feels it to be chafing. The review could be a week, two weeks, a month down the line, but it will allow you time to process, and also gives him a date that he knows such boundaries will be reviewed by, so he's not feeling trapped by you.

As for how upset you should be ... Well, you don't sound too upset with the transgression itself, more the implications of it. (i.e. continued disrespect) So, if it feels natural to let it go, then do so. If you need some time to get over it, take that time. Everyone deals with hurt differently, so don't feel like you have a quota of upsetness that you must fill. ;)

Thanks, TruckerPete.

You are spot-on about the "implications of the transgression" being my biggest issue. I'm more or less just scared that this means his relationship with Ladybug is *woah* - full speed ahead, now that they're actually having sex. I don't want it to be too difficult for him to consider how I might feel about certain things, in the excitement of this new, super fun, omgiwantyounow thing that they have going. We've always been very supportive of each other, and his being unable to respect an agreement we made in the face of pressure, without any discourse, scares me. And, given that he can't/won't agree not to engage in this act with her (even just temporarily), it does make me feel less important than the act itself, which feels real crummy.

He won't stop having intercourse with her (in fact, they're decidedly going to do it tonight). I don't think it's fair of me to ask, either. I don't know.

I'm not sure what I'm thinking, since it's definitely not as though we don't partake in mutual expressions of sexuality every day that we're together. We certainly do. And it's great and wonderful and all that, but I feel threatened.
 
Last edited:
You feel "threatened"? By what? Do you think he will leave you for her? If so, you need to express your feelings to him immediatly.
 
You feel "threatened"? By what? Do you think he will leave you for her? If so, you need to express your feelings to him immediatly.

TL4everu2, I have told him this. He assures me that it's not true, but can't deny that he wants his relationship with Ladybug to be more time-intensive, which would have to take time away from his relationship with me. In theory, I can do that, but I'm struggling because I'm trying to decide if I should wait for that to happen, or just take some control over my own time and make a limited schedule for Pretty and I (3 nights/wk), so that I'm not going through shock when he asks for more nights away. Does that make sense?
 
Absolutely it makes sense. Set the schedule, and tell him that if you all spend MORE time together, it will be counted as extra and definatly not taken advantage of.
 
Absolutely it makes sense. Set the schedule, and tell him that if you all spend MORE time together, it will be counted as extra and definatly not taken advantage of.

I guess that's the way the cookie crumbles. Something's got to give. For me, there will be major grief associated with the change, if it ultimately happens. At least for a while. I'm mostly jealous that he'll be too busy with Ladybug to have to wallow in that the way that I do! I guess we could think of really neat things to do together on our nights, which would make it easier. And it could be a good opportunity to focus on personal goals.

Any other coping strategies? What to people do when their partners start other relationships and time is taken from them?
 
My immediate impulse is to take back some control - to really turn down the volume on my relationship with Pretty and make it way more part-time, and perhaps even PIV/fluids-free. I have a three-nights-a-week scenario in mind, which would be a powerful change for us. I'm not sure if I'm acting out of resentment or common sense - he wants to seriously develop his relationship with Ladybug and I know that if I don't start weaning myself, time-wise, he will do the weaning for me. Regardless of how I might want to feel, that scares the living $%^& out of me. I'm ashamed to say that part of me just wants to be done with it, even, since I can't guarantee that my comfort levels will be taken into account, and neither can he.

But then, I LOVE HIM. I LOVE HIM. I LOVE HIM. I want him to be around and part of my family as I become pregnant, give birth and raise a child. A part of me is afraid that he's moving away from me - that he's prioritizing other relationships over keeping ours comfortable and safe, because they're more important. Maybe these are crazy thoughts, but I'm not sure.


What do people think? How could I most adequately communicate/respond/advocate for myself and our relationship? Am I being too this way or that way?
You are not being way too much of anything. You are being you and that is the best you can do. I think it's very appropriate to have concerns about their speed in becoming intimate and how they broke a well known boundary. It's a shame they didn't think to talk about it first, but there is no time like the present to slow down and re-negotiate.

The thing with breaking boundaries is that everything slows down after wards until everyone is feeling respected, trusted and trusting again. Barreling forward and just saying "fuck it, its done now" doesn't seem to work if those being disrespected aren't being considered... consideration is huge in Poly I think.

I think that if you love him (in capital letters) then you should ask for your needs to be met regardless of whether or not you think you are unjustified or not. That is where the negotiations should start I think... at the pace of the one that is struggling the most.

Keep at it and keep being radically honest with them. Keep at staying true to your heart. If they are unable to "control" the love and NRE they have, then that would be a big red flag to me that raising a kid with them in my life would mean I can't rely on them. That's okay, but something to note about the future I think.
 
You are not being way too much of anything. You are being you and that is the best you can do. I think it's very appropriate to have concerns about their speed in becoming intimate and how they broke a well known boundary. It's a shame they didn't think to talk about it first, but there is no time like the present to slow down and re-negotiate.

The thing with breaking boundaries is that everything slows down after wards until everyone is feeling respected, trusted and trusting again. Barreling forward and just saying "fuck it, its done now" doesn't seem to work if those being disrespected aren't being considered... consideration is huge in Poly I think.

I think that if you love him (in capital letters) then you should ask for your needs to be met regardless of whether or not you think you are unjustified or not. That is where the negotiations should start I think... at the pace of the one that is struggling the most.

Keep at it and keep being radically honest with them. Keep at staying true to your heart. If they are unable to "control" the love and NRE they have, then that would be a big red flag to me that raising a kid with them in my life would mean I can't rely on them. That's okay, but something to note about the future I think.


Thanks so much. It's nice to hear that my feelings are legitimate and that I deserve to have my boundaries respected.

I do realize now that I was perhaps being a bit... permissive when we talked about it last night, and have been thinking about it in pretty finite terms.

He was having a hard time communicating post-transgression. He felt very guilty and anxious and when he feels that way he tends to get a little paralyzed. I kept trying to reassure him that he breeched our agreement because those boundaries weren't appropriate anymore, and that I wasn't going to try to stop him from doing what he wanted. He agreed and said that he wasn't prepared not to engage in that particular way with Lovebug. So here I am, kicking myself for not making my needs clear and hoping that I can remedy the situation.

I just texted him at work (he's going straight from work to her house), reestablishing my comfort level and asking him not to breech the boundary again until we've had more conversation and more time. There are plenty of things that they can do besides have PIV intercourse, if they want to. We'll see how he responds.
 
I don't have much help to offer here, but I was wondering, if you use female pronouns for Pretty when in a safe place, any reason you don't here? Is it because this isn't a safe place? :)p) or are you worried sentences like "her penis" would be weird?
Because I can assure you that people here wouldn't have a problem with it. It might take a little bit to process the relationship dynamics at first (it always does with poly anyways) but once that's establish, it should be fine. Pretty isn't the only genderqueer we hear about around here.

But maybe I misunderstood and Pretty is neither or both, so you just picked one for here, and use a different one when you're home, or something?
 
I don't have much help to offer here, but I was wondering, if you use female pronouns for Pretty when in a safe place, any reason you don't here? Is it because this isn't a safe place? :)p) or are you worried sentences like "her penis" would be weird?
Because I can assure you that people here wouldn't have a problem with it. It might take a little bit to process the relationship dynamics at first (it always does with poly anyways) but once that's establish, it should be fine. Pretty isn't the only genderqueer we hear about around here.

But maybe I misunderstood and Pretty is neither or both, so you just picked one for here, and use a different one when you're home, or something?

Good question! I'm glad that this is a (somewhat, at least) queer-concious safe spot, though I have noticed some less-than-sensitive/homophobic threads (and many of the dynamics seem a to lean towards male-centricity, which seems to be the cultural norm even within the poly community), but I'm aware that's not a fault of the community at large, and that the outward dynamic doesn't necessarily speak to someone's point-of-view. And I and am happy to gain whatever support I can get.

Let me reassure you, I'm not worried about the "weirdness" of my girlfriend/boyfriend/partner having a penis at all, regardless of pronouns. Being in an amazing and supportive queer/feminist community, I know many women with penises and I know many men who are capable of getting pregnant. I'm very comfortable with Pretty's queerness, as he is with mine, and would have absolutely no qualms about using female pronouns, but where and when I/we do so is up to him. Our rule of thumb is to go by male pronouns unless Pretty explicitly expresses the want or need to use female pronouns, which happens usually in very queer-oriented environments, where he feels most safe about his identity. It's all about consent. The only place that we've agreed is always 100% safe is in our room. That's about his comfort level, not mine. I'm up for whatever makes us feel good, and I like referring to him by either pronouns (though I will admit that I really do love using his female pronouns, when we've decided that's okay).

Pretty and I work really hard at practicing good consent on every level. It's very important to us, which is part of why this boundary issue is really hard right now.


A General Update:
I texted Pretty and he agreed to discuss things tomorrow night, and that he and Ladybug won't breech any boundaries. :) We'll see how it goes when we talk about it tomorrow night. I'm hoping that he will discuss things with Ladybug, to get a better idea of what her goals and ideas are for their relationship. I think that I would like it if Ladybug were open enough to talk with both of us about this, but she's from a pretty strong mono background (until she and Pretty fell for eachother :) ), and I get the impression that it would be a stretch for her in the beginning. Does anyone have any experience with group discussions early in a new relationship?

I'm not sure what the talk will be like, at any rate, but I'm glad we'll be having it.
 
Last edited:
Good question! I'm glad that this is a (somewhat, at least) queer-concious safe spot, though I have noticed some less-than-sensitive/homophobic threads (and many of the dynamics seem a to lean towards male-centricity, which seems to be the cultural norm even within the poly community), but I'm aware that's not a fault of the community at large, and that the outward dynamic doesn't necessarily speak to someone's point-of-view. And I and am happy to gain whatever support I can get.
I'm glad you realize that even though people are not open to genderfuck in their own lives that some of us do understand the theory behind it and/or support it.

People who have a hard time with stuff generally don't say anything on a thread or when they do, do so knowing that the members writing are not going to allow them to get away with much. Sometimes these things are a matter of educating and being patient. Good for you for seeing that patience and acceptance are important... I enjoy the diversity here emmensely and do hope that anyone writing will feel safe and supported regardless of where they are coming from... that doesn't mean that there won't be debate, but acceptance within it.... hopefully.

Hope all goes well tonight :)
 
So, Pretty was very understanding of my request to reinstate the previously agreed-upon boundary. He has talked to Ladybug, so that should be the deal henceforth and until further notice. Good stuff.

Pretty and I have decided that we are going to stick with 3-4 nights a week, depending upon availability. This is actually the healthiest way for me to go, I think, since I really should be focusing on my personal goals a bit more, and preparing for the conception of my first child. Still, this poly thing is so hard. I didn't imagine that I would be this jealous, but I don't think the circumstances helped (boundary-crossing, super quick progress into NRE, etc). It would, presumably, have been a lot easier at a slower pace and with a lot more discussion.

I do wonder how I should get more comfortable with the idea of spending time with Lovebug and talking to her. Pretty said that she would be intimidated at first, as she has some feelings of guilt, and I want to ease that as much as possible. It's not going to work for me if I can't easily talk to Lovebug on a friend level. I really like her and would like it to be easy for us to get along.

Any suggestions on getting along openly with your parter's first new, serious, potentially long-term committed love?


I'm glad you realize that even though people are not open to genderfuck in their own lives that some of us do understand the theory behind it and/or support it.

People who have a hard time with stuff generally don't say anything on a thread or when they do, do so knowing that the members writing are not going to allow them to get away with much. Sometimes these things are a matter of educating and being patient. Good for you for seeing that patience and acceptance are important... I enjoy the diversity here emmensely and do hope that anyone writing will feel safe and supported regardless of where they are coming from... that doesn't mean that there won't be debate, but acceptance within it.... hopefully.

I totally get it, redpepper, and I certainly was by no means implying that the community was flagrantly homophobic, etc. I would be foolish to imply that, as there is clearly a great deal of gender/sexual deviance here. A big, genuine thank you for sharing a space that aims at diversity and learning. :) I am truly happy to find a place where I am comfortable enough to post about our situation honestly, and expect feedback that is accepting and positive.

When posting about homophobic tones in certain threads I came across, I only meant to imply that what discomfort there is with queerness should always be noticed and pointed out, and I think that on the whole (and to my limited experience searching tags, etc), that certainly is handled well here. That can only come where people are intentional about educating themselves and opening a dialogue. I make it a point not to be in denial of some people's prejudices, whatever the environment, but I am not pointing fingers and not singling people out. I do feel that queerness and feminist values, and the acceptance/exploration thereof, should be central to the poly conversation. Exposure is important, but it's not everything, and genuine reflection on our own developing views are always crucial. That is not to say that I disapprove of closed Vs with males at the point, for instance, or that I find them inherently problematic in themselves. I am, after all sort of in one. but where the feminist/sexual/gender-deviance conversation is not there, I would argue that the poly relationship is unhealthy. But then, I would argue that any un-analyzed, conditioned patriarchal attitude is unhealthy. But that's just kind of my rub, coming from the place and perspective that I do. I understand we're all learning.

Thanks again, everyone, for your wholehearted support.
 
Last edited:
Back
Top