keeping ones poly in the closet

redpepper

Active member
I wouldn't be a big fan of not being out though. I would hate being someone's partner, yet being known just as a friend. It's not the truth and I hate lies. =P

I think if you were out to her [and she was accepting of it], perhaps you would be at ease around her.

I got this quote from another thread and I thought it perhaps warranted some discussion.

I had not thought of my lack of need to "come out" as a possible lie or untruth. I don't see it that way. I come out when I am comfortable to do so and when the moment arises. I don't attach comfort to people knowing me in such a way. I guess I am a person that prefers to remain a mystery until such time as I trust enough or feel its necessary to the situation to reveal something of myself. That isn't a lie to me, it isn't an untruth, its privacy.

The other thought I had about this is that who am I actually serving when I come out? I am not serving the person I come out to. I am serving myself. That person doesn't necessarily want to know stuff about me. They might be happily unaware and uncaring of what I do in my private life. When I come out to them it means they then have cause to get in deeper with me. Connect more. To me it could be considered a selfish act to give information about myself.

Okay, so having said that. I realize that we all tell our story as a way to connect in the world. Its important and if we want to fit in, feel part of something and be accepted then ya, we need to tell our story. I have come to realize though that divulging personal information is an option, not a right, or a demand we place on ourselves because I some how owe people. I don't owe my parents the rights to my personal information about my life for example.

I can feel like I fit in because I decide to, not because people know my life story in great detail or any detail at all. To me that is part of having a healthy approach and respect of myself and others boundaries. Funny thing is that I generally tell my story a lot! I guess that makes me selfish. :rolleyes::p

thoughts?
 
I am the same. I love to be open to people and I think I am in a way self centered, because I like to talk about me, things that concern me in a certain way and get feedback on how I view the world. Maybe because I tend to spend so much time on these things by myself already. So if the opportunity arises where I am able to exchange thoughts with other people (even more if those people are in some way dear to me) I want to say what I got to say without censoring myself.

I am not someone who needs to talk about my stuff all the time, especially not when strangers are involved. I am no advocate of my interests, in such a way, that I need to make clear in each and every situation that I am like this, think like that and like to do things like who-knows-how. That would be way overboard.

But now comes the BUT: I want to be connected to people who mean something to me and I feel like disconnecting when I am keeping important things from my life away from them. I need to watch how I interact with Lin around my family at the moment, we considered it as too much to discuss our situation right now, even more at the moment because the holidays are around the corner. If possible we want to delay those news till the beginning of the next year. Because we would consider it selfish to confront them with it and maybe even ruin the mood for the festivities.

It's hard for Lin, because he needs to censor what he says and does when my family is around I feel like deceiving them when I treat Lin like a friend, but even more like being unfair towards Lin because I can see how hurt he sometimes is, when I behave like that. He knows why we handle it like that at the moment, but it doesn't feel right.

To sum it up: It makes us uncomfortable. In regard to our take on the matter, Somegeezer was quite right. :)
 
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I feel like there are various levels of being out. I have stated clearly that I am polyamorous in my Facebook info section. But, I generally don't push it on people. And, I've found that most people don't discover it on their own but it's right there for all friends to see.

Where it gets hard for me is really when I have to be a secret in important parts of a close partner's life. I think that's relatively more difficult if there's a need to sneek around generally. I don't like that feeling.

I'm relatively less disclosing about my personal life in general. So, lots of folks feel that I'm a very private person. This, I think, is about the lack of volunterring information... I'm just not proactive about sharing. But, will often tell people most anything when asked.

All that said, not being out is only a problem for me in the context of how it makes me feel and if it limits our ability to deepen the connection.
 
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I dislike the dichotomy between who I'm out about and who I'm not.

When I started my current job back in January I didn't want to be out about dating a married woman, so I asked my new boss if it would be possible to take some time off to help my "best friend" with her new baby after the summer (didn't end up being necessary but at the time it seemed like she and Eric might need help with childcare). I've continued to refer to Gia as my friend or best friend at work even though I call her my girlfriend to my friends. No big deal, right?

But then I started dating Davis and found myself mentioning him in conversation. Since he has no other partners it wouldn't have outed me as poly to call him my boyfriend, but I decided to just refer to him as a friend too so that I wouldn't be acknowledging one partner and not another. But once or twice now I've slipped and mentioned "my boyfriend".

This bothers me a lot. It makes me feel like I'm in the closet, which, well, I am. And coming out of the closet as queer was a really important thing to me, so being in a new closet feels icky.

I remind myself that if a coworker asked what I did over the weekend I would tell them about a bike trip but not a kinky play party. That's not because I am proud of bikes and ashamed of kinkiness, and neither am I proud of Davis but ashamed of Gia. I just don't want to deal with the awkward questions and potential negative reactions I'd get.

The difference of course is that is the kinky play party is focused on sex, which is a very private thing in our culture, whereas my relationship with Gia is about love, which is supposed to be a celebrated thing in our culture. Certainly I hear my co-workers talk often enough about wedding plans and things like that.

My personal compromise is 1) to have pictures of Davis, Gia, and Bee at my desk at work, and 2) to keep checking in with myself to see if/when I'm ready to come out about it.
 
Well, I think it is one of those situations you have to weigh, on a case-by-case scenario.

In the post where you took this example from, there is someone handing out hospitality, and 'good will'. We all know the amount of work that goes into hosting such a production. Christmas and other holidays are rich in meaning for many people. Some meaning is religious, and some meaning is simply family, love and togetherness. Regardless of right or wrong, or our own personal convictions, I think it`s important to respect others rights, and 'timing is everything' if you are going to out yourself.
To 'take' in someone`s hospitality to that extent, yet under a false pretense, is where I personally would draw the line. Bluntly, I think it`s rather odd, that polyamory would promote ethical and honest love, yet some people might 'take' things to benefit themselves, and yet hide a truth.

This can differ in situations where ;
- You are meeting on 'even ground.'
-You have a long history with the people involved.
-You are with your own family.
- It is a fairly casual occasion.
- Or, the good deeds are give and take on both sides.

....Those above mentioned scenarios would allow for different 'rights'.


Sooo,..I guess my thoughts on the subject relate entirely to 'timing'. I don`t think people should be forced to be outed, or forced to be in the closet. That is a personal choice.
However, I do believe that people should examine what respect really means, from all sides, before they indulge.
 
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If I can, I prefer to be open about being poly. I won't out my partners or rush them, and I totally understand why people choose not be be out, but it doesn't make me feel good. I told my family from the start, and then had to remind them several times when they "forgot". They're all pretty accepting now that they've met our partners and gotten to like them, especially my siblings.

We can't be out with my husband's dad because it would cause strife in his family and that's not cool. So, if I know it wouldn't go well, I don't want to push it. Same goes for our boyfriend's family. I can totally respect that.

In general, though if I would normally say something like, My boyfriend, or my girlfriend, than just saying friend feels weird to me. I resent the idea that other people's prejudice is, well, valid. At least to the point where I should bend my life around it. I dunno, that's probably unfair, but all things being equal, I'd rather make a random stranger confused than feel like a liar, or like I should be ashamed of us and the way we live our lives.
 
Timing is so important with coming out. I totally agree. I think that is more of the issue for me than coming out. Timing is everything really when it comes to why I would want to come out to someone.

This past week I was talking about Derby at work. My co-workers know who she is and while I was talking about her my boss walked in. She asked who I was talking about and I wieghed it all up in a second and said, "oh, just a friend." I had that sinking feeling of having done something wrong, but really, the timing was not good as there was a lot going on, she thought it was work related, and really is not interested in my private life... never has been. I felt after that sinking feeling that I had spared her from knowing me more deeply. It would of been selfish of me to assume that she would want to. I am pretty sure she doesn't. Perhaps if another moment comes up and it is an easy transfer of information and seems acceptable at the time I will tell her... I doubt it, I have known her for years and really, she isn't interested.
 
It's probably just me, but I've never seen the appeal in "coming out." I've never seen the need either - why would anyone need to know that x is my girlfriend or y is also my girlfriend? They're just labels anyway, I tend to refer to people by their names instead of trying to fit them into a society-defined convention of "girlfriend", "just a friend", "wife" etc etc.

To me, there is no dichotomy between who I am and what I display to the various people in my life. My family don't know that me and my primary had sex with another girl last Friday, and they never will. Does that mean I'm living a lie about my sex life when I don't tell them I'm into group sex? Does that mean somehow that I'm in the closet for sex? My friends at work don't know that I do pro-wrestling either, but that doesn't mean that I'm ashamed of it or that I'm afraid they would be negative if they knew. Am I in the closet for my interests? [just an example to show that it's not all sex/romantic things that I don't tell people]

We have so many different people in our lives and all of them know a slightly different version of us. Unless you're deliberately lying to someone, or leading someone to believe that you ARE something you're NOT (or leading them to believe you're not something that you are) then you can still be true to yourself and not have everyone know everything about you.

I think one of the things that helps me (but might make it more difficult for others) is that a) I'm quite touchy-feely anyway, but b) I'm quite happy going without PDAs (public displays of affection), and in fact, unless it's just the group of us (who are in the relationship) I generally don't like lots of PDA anyway - I feel it would be disrepectful to the other people I was with if I spent the whole time touching/kissing my partner(s) when I'm somewhere with friends or family. As an example, me and my primary were at a party on Friday, and we hardly even spoke to each other, let alone touching/kissing etc. Not because anything was wrong, but because we're very intimate when we're alone, and so this is time for us to connect with the OTHER people in our lives. Even then, like I said, I'm very touchy-feely with EVERYONE, so a hug to someone wouldn't seem out of place to anyone - therefore if I brought two partners to a family event, even if they thought I was mono with one of them, anyone looking in would not be able to tell that I was with either of them. Does that make me in the closet? I don't FEEL like I'm in the closet - I just don't feel the need or particular desire to tell everyone everything about myself.

For the record (and ymmv on this) but I've never actually found myself in a situation where I've been REQUIRED to openly state that I'm poly to someone that didn't know.

And fwiw I never call someone "just a friend". If I say someone is a friend though, it's not a lie, because I consider everyone I'm in a relationship with a friend. The most important thing for me though (and I command respect on this one because it's so important to me) is that if I care about anyone, I expect everyone who cares about me to recognise that care I have for them, whether it's my best-friend, a friend I haven't seen for years, a friend I've only known for 5 minutes or a friend who I'm also in a loving relationship with.
 
I like that my quote sparked a new and very interesting thread. =] I don't think it's quite used in the context I meant it though.

I'm all for people not wanting to be out as poly, as I realise, for a start, it can cause problems for people. My problem with it, is the having to lie about who you really are around other people.

Tonberry in the other thread had said it best. - "I would want to be able to be spontaneous and hold his hand or kiss him and all the things you normally do without thinking twice. Having to refrain from doing it would make me feel wronged by him."

If I were not able to be myself around people, I would choose not to be around them myself. I certainly wouldn't lie and act as "just a friend", if I were actually with them. Which also would make it a lot better for them not to invite me, if they really didn't want that information out.

Of course, it's all just personal to me. Lots of people have no problem with things like that. I can certainly see how it really isn't all that much of a problem to just hide who you are around the right people. It's just not who I am. I like sharing myself. Even with complete strangers at times. =P
 
I was actually hoping the quote would be taken as a stand alone regardless of who said it and in what context as I thought it would be interesting to discuss on its own as much as in the context it was in. Sorry is it pointed you out Somegeezer. Thanks for clarifying your stance.
 
I am considered a very private person, and in reality, it's only because I don't volunteer information about myself. I'm not intentionally private, if someone asks me a question, I'll answer it, but people rarely ask questions about my life.

I've always figured if somebody wants to know something about me, they'll ask. No, I won't be having a "coming out" anytime soon. Don't feel a need for it.
 
BigGuy, I'm not trying to pick on you, but I'm curious, so let's imagine for a moment.

If you were at an office party would you potentially ever introduce your wife to your boss by saying "This is my wife, Sheila" or would you only ever say "This is Sheila"? If the former, would you also potentially ever introduce your girlfriend, were she also at the party, by saying "This is my girlfriend, Sue?" [names made up]

For many married/primary-coupled polys with other partners, I think the answer would be yes to question one, no to question two. I feel then that, for them, saying "I'm just a very private person" ducks the issue. It makes it sound like they just don't care to publicly mention their relationships, but if one relationship can be mentioned and another can't, it's not really about that. It's about being in the closet about poly. I think some people would prefer to frame things such that they can believe they're not really in the closet when in fact they are.

I apologize for using you as an example if this doesn't apply to you. And if it does, no judgment. As RP pointed out there are valid reasons to stay in the closet, such as not wanting to push people out of their comfort zone, which the concept of poly very much does for many people. But if we're choosing to closet ourselves I think we should acknowledge that fact rather than mask it.
 
Even then, like I said, I'm very touchy-feely with EVERYONE, so a hug to someone wouldn't seem out of place to anyone - therefore if I brought two partners to a family event, even if they thought I was mono with one of them, anyone looking in would not be able to tell that I was with either of them. Does that make me in the closet? I don't FEEL like I'm in the closet - I just don't feel the need or particular desire to tell everyone everything about myself.

For the record (and ymmv on this) but I've never actually found myself in a situation where I've been REQUIRED to openly state that I'm poly to someone that didn't know.

As per my post above directed to BG, in my opinion if you're openly acknowledging one relationship ("this is my wife, Jane" regarding your wife) and not another ("this is my good friend, Andrea" regarding your girlfriend), then yes, I'd say you're in the closet regardless of who you hug.

Gay people are almost never required to tell strangers that they're gay, but if they present their partners to their families as friends rather than partners then they're in the closet, in that arena at least, yes? Same thing, imho.

Again, I'm not saying this to shame anyone or tell them they should be making different choices. But I think it's important to at least get clear on what we mean when we talk about being closeted. I'm curious as to whether anyone disagrees with the perspective I've articulated.
 
Note that I wouldn't consider the "lack of acknowledgment = closet" thing in the same way when it comes to someone who is a sex partner but not a relationship partner or someone who you've been dating a short time, as in those cases you might well not acknowledge the nature of the relationship to people like co-workers or family members even if you were mono. Nor is the way you introduce someone all it's about.

Basically it boils down to this, in my mind, when it comes to people in marriages/primary-relationships who also have other partners. Think of the your secondary partner. Imagine that he or she is your only partner and that you two have been mono since the start of your relationship and fully intend to stay that way for the duration of the relationship. If that were the case, would you, under any circumstances, mention to family or co-workers the fact that you're dating that person? Now snap back to reality where that person is not your only partner. Same question. If the answer is different, you're in the closet at least some of the time.
 
I'm astounded you guessed my wife and girlfriend's names. j/k

Part of it is the "Hi, how are you?" meme. Ninety-nine percent of the time when someone asks you this, they really don't want to know how you are. It's just a greeting. They REALLY DON'T WANT to know how you are. Because, if you told them, it would make them uncomfortable. Socially, there are levels of intimacy that people are comfortable with, and certain information breeches social etiquette. In the same way, ninety-nine percent of the time, they don't care what your relationship status is, particularly if it is defined by how often you rub your naughty bits together. (unless they're looking for drama fodder)

I don't consider myself to be any more in the closet by not disclosing a romantic status, than I feel gagged because I can't disclose how I'm really doing.

That being said, how "out" I want to be is something that I think about, alot. Not so much as to how it affects me, but rather how it would impact others in my life. My wife and I are both divorced with kids, and custody is an issue. So, for now, I will tend to err on the side of discretion. Its unfortunate that this is the current state of affairs, but to spare the kids the potential drama, it's a small price to pay.

As for Sue, I would introduce her as my girlfriend. But, my humor is deadpan. I say outrageous things with a totally serious expression. So, they'll probably think I'm kidding. But in the end, it doesn't really matter what they think. Does it?
 
Another thought. People tend to mirror others in new situational dynamics.

After my divorce, I was a pizza dude on the side to make some extra money. One time, one of the administrative assistants from my primary job came into the store, and for some reason, I got all embarrassed and uncomfortable. As a result, she got uncomfortable.

By and large, a substantial portion of the general population want to know how to react in new situations. They want to be led. If you acknowledge the unique dynamic in a manner that is comfortable, relaxed, and no big deal, chances are good they'll follow your lead.

For those people who believe they have a stakehold in how you live your life, then it really doesn't matter how you tell them. They're going to react to the extent they feel their paradigm is threatened.
 
As per my post above directed to BG, in my opinion if you're openly acknowledging one relationship ("this is my wife, Jane" regarding your wife) and not another ("this is my good friend, Andrea" regarding your girlfriend), then yes, I'd say you're in the closet regardless of who you hug.

Gay people are almost never required to tell strangers that they're gay, but if they present their partners to their families as friends rather than partners then they're in the closet, in that arena at least, yes? Same thing, imho.

Again, I'm not saying this to shame anyone or tell them they should be making different choices. But I think it's important to at least get clear on what we mean when we talk about being closeted. I'm curious as to whether anyone disagrees with the perspective I've articulated.

Ok, I think we should make a clarification here. I don't have any desire to come out, which means that either I'm not in the closet, or I'm happy in that closet. TBH, if people have a consensus that what I do means that I'm in the closet, then that's fine, because the situation I'm in is one I like. To put it another way, even if I'm closeted, I don't feel trapped. I don't feel imprisoned. To me, being in the closet is only an issue if you don't want to be.

I personally believe that by coming out, you're essentially saying "this isn't normal, which is why I have to explain it to you in some big talk." As I said, I don't like defining things to other people, because in a lot of cases they won't understand, it will cause them discomfort and often they just don't really care that much. Instead, I turn up, with or without people and act how I naturally want to act. If people are desperate to figure it out, they'll ask. But sitting someone down who's neither ready nor willing to hear it is not something I'm into.

For me, being in the closet would be acting in a way I don't want to act. My "non-disclosure" attitude is probably at odds with yours, which is why it seems like I'm hiding things. But it's not that I'm hiding (or maybe it is and I don't even realise!) it's just that I don't want to discuss my relationship structures with other people. That causes resistance ("oh but no girl would let you date someone else") whereas seeing two or more of us interacting happily and normally causes much less resistance, even if they don't know the whole story.
 
If people are desperate to figure it out, they'll ask. But sitting someone down who's neither ready nor willing to hear it is not something I'm into.

I think I have a problem with this one. For example my dad - who doesn't know about us yet - would never think to ask something like that. I know that he's quite suspicious already because I'm traveling to see rory in a different country very often and I guess it's not very normal to do that with friends. But he doesn't know what's going on and my guess is he would never think of asking the right question - especially considering that rory is a woman and my dad doesn't even know I'm bi. So I think he knows that I'm hiding the real reason why I travel so much. But still, I think he might never be ready or willing to hear the truth. So if I followed that guideline, there probably wouldn't come a day when I'd have to tell him.

For me, the problem with not telling is that I feel it's making us more distant. I feel like I can't talk about my life normally and I have to be all careful about what I say. And because rory is such an important part of my life, I feel like I'm hiding something really big from my dad. Also lying makes me feel sick, literally. I'm really bad at it and when I do it, I get physical symptoms. So in general I prefer telling the truth whenever I can, but there are situations where it doesn't feel very reasonable and then I lie and suffer. :(
 
I think I have a problem with this one. For example my dad - who doesn't know about us yet - would never think to ask something like that. I know that he's quite suspicious already because I'm traveling to see rory in a different country very often and I guess it's not very normal to do that with friends. But he doesn't know what's going on and my guess is he would never think of asking the right question - especially considering that rory is a woman and my dad doesn't even know I'm bi. So I think he knows that I'm hiding the real reason why I travel so much. But still, I think he might never be ready or willing to hear the truth. So if I followed that guideline, there probably wouldn't come a day when I'd have to tell him.

For me, the problem with not telling is that I feel it's making us more distant. I feel like I can't talk about my life normally and I have to be all careful about what I say. And because rory is such an important part of my life, I feel like I'm hiding something really big from my dad. Also lying makes me feel sick, literally. I'm really bad at it and when I do it, I get physical symptoms. So in general I prefer telling the truth whenever I can, but there are situations where it doesn't feel very reasonable and then I lie and suffer. :(

Sorry to hear it's hard for you :( I did try and mention my "non-disclosure" attitude, in that I don't really talk about relationships with anyone (apart from with the people with whom I'm in relationships) so there's never any "hidden" stuff. I relate to my family and friends just the same regardless of what relationships I have (or don't have).

I guess in your scenario, if he's never going to be ready or willing, is that one of you is going to have to feel the discomfort, either you of not telling or him of having to hear it. If it's an issue for you, then obviously you'll have to tell him at some point (or keep suffering which isn't a great option). I was saying that FOR ME, there's no suffering on my part by not telling, and therefore I have no incentive to tell people. But at the same time I'm never afraid of "spilling the beans" because even if I did tell people something that helped them figure it out, I have no problem with them knowing. That's the crux of it for me personally, is that it's just naturally a part of who I am, so I'd never "come out" because that is a process of telling people, whereas I'm not concered whether people know or not. If they know, great, if not, great. As long as they don't give me grief either way, then I'm happy.
 
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I'm astounded you guessed my wife and girlfriend's names. j/k

Its unfortunate that this is the current state of affairs, but to spare the kids the potential drama, it's a small price to pay.

As for Sue, I would introduce her as my girlfriend.

But in the end, it doesn't really matter what they think. Does it?

Responses in order:

I lol'ed. :)

Absolutely

Cool!

It does not.
 
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