Poly and babies

sleepygirl

New member
I don't know if this is truly the correct place for this post, please feel free to move it, if necessary.

My life calling is to be a midwife, eventually, once my children are older. For now, in preparation, I'm working on becoming a doula. In light of my recent reading and research, I've been (pleasantly) surprised at how many polys have children or are planning children. It has led me to wonder just how important it might be to have a doula/midwife who specializes in poly families, someone who understands, accepts, even welcomes the dynamics and interplay of poly relationships within a family group.

So...thoughts, folks? Good idea? Bad idea? Total non-issue?
 
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I'm a midwife. Not practicing right now though. I'd say it is important, very important, in fact. There are a few issues that poly families present, not issues per se, but things that need to be explained properly so they make decisions that are best for them. I know, for example, that it's fairly popular for a woman with more than one male partner to conceive without finding out the paternity as she has the intention of more than one male being a father to the child. That's fine, but in some cases, knowing the paternity might be safer for the baby. I'd ideally want medical history of all potential fathers so we could prepare for any eventuality. But in an extreme case where one guy has a history of some sort of heart issue, the other carries a chromosomal disorder and the third has a family history of pathological neonatal jaundice, it will take a lot of preparation to provide the safest birth and postnatal period for that baby. The problem is that polyamorous people are so used to being discriminated against by health care professionals, they either don't disclose these things or become defensive/uncooperative when asked about it. Having someone that they could disclose to without feeling judged would be brilliant and also provide the best holistic care for women and their families.

As well as the medical side, there is the more emotional side too - if you know that someone, or some people present at a birth/prenatal appointment are to be parents to the child opposed to being birth partners to the mum, you will involve them more, treat them like you would any dad from a monogamous heterosexual relationship. I remember these lesbians who came in for induction of labour - they said throughout the pregnancy that they are sisters. Some staff were horrified when they were kissing etc. Incest obviously trumps homosexuality on the squick scale.
 
Hmmm, we have Midwife led care in the UK so, your experiences might be totally different but generally medical staff don't tend to pry, they ask questions from a medical history standpoint but s long as you and the baby are healthy they tend not to judge. But that is the UK, I know people are often more vocal in their judgement in other countries which might necessitate the need for a person from within your 'alt' community?
 
I have never thought about poly specific birth needs, but I find this topic to be fascinating. While there are no children in my life right now, my husband and I would like to start trying next year, and my goal is to either have the delivery at home or at the local birth center. While unlike some poly couples there is no desire for children by my other partner, we have already talked about we want him to be involved in their lives, etc.

Then again, I have yet to even tell my midwife (I see one for GYN care) that I am poly and non-monogamous in my sex life, so that should be a fun conversation.
 
Hmmm, we have Midwife led care in the UK so, your experiences might be totally different but generally medical staff don't tend to pry, they ask questions from a medical history standpoint but s long as you and the baby are healthy they tend not to judge. But that is the UK, I know people are often more vocal in their judgement in other countries which might necessitate the need for a person from within your 'alt' community?
The way I think it would affect your care in this country is things like your baby going into NICU and only "parents" being allowed to visit them (it's like that in some units here). Or even the fact that most women have their partner and mum in the room, and most hospitals allow 2 people in the room (even in birth centres). What about the woman who wants both her partners (both parents to the baby) and her mum in the room? Who will she pick? Also, say you have both partners there, you don't want one person to be treated like Dad and the other to be treated like an uncle/aunt. Honestly, a poly friendly midwife would give you the optimum birth experience as new parents. Luckily, most universities do discuss alternative relationships during the course, so new midwives hopefully have some idea that not everyone is monogamous and sometimes children have more than two parents.
 
I'm very curious about the differences in care in the UK, compared to the often disastrous and controlling care here in the states. I have the privilege of living in a state that doesn't restrict midwifery at all, one of the few. Most of mine were midwife care and home births, and I'm thankful for that.

I just had never considered the need for a doula/midwife that was "alternative" (to use an inappropriate term for it) friendly until this morning. I can see how it could change a person's birth experience for the better. For a woman to have the loving support of all her partners, if she wants, will benefit her tremendously. I've been mulling it about in my brain all day, and I think it's a valuable idea, particularly in a place as intolerant as Oklahoma.

(btw: "squick" cracked me up. I've never heard that word before.)
 
I am also a midwife, and I do home births. I have not yet had the privilege of attending a birth with a poly family, but one of my colleagues in the area has been with the same family twice. Once one female partner had a child, the next time it was the other partner. They have a male partner with the two mothers.

I make it clear that I accept "diversity" in my practice, but I dont advertise it specifically. But, yes, it would be extremely important for poly families to know they can be "out" with you.

Perhaps making your services known within the poly community would let them know it is available?

Good luck!
Willow
 
I'm very curious about the differences in care in the UK, compared to the often disastrous and controlling care here in the states.

All I know about American birth experiences is what I see on reality TV and in that I wonder just how 'real' it is! Regardless it looks very terrifying, I once watched one Maternity program in which the Doctor openly called a labouring woman selfish because she declined an epidural, apparently, she might get noisy and scare other women. :eek:

All those women flat on their back too? I just don't get it.

Over here the policy is a natural vaginal birth is the best possible birth for both mother and baby.

My baby was born in May, she was born in a pool, once I got in, the midwives didn't really do anything physical until, I pushed her all the way out, it was an incredibly low intervention birth which was fantastic!
 
I've cried in a US maternity show because the doctors were determined to harm the baby.
 
I, too, have cried over some of the horrors I've seen at births. The first one of my friends that I saw give birth was when I was 16. So was she. It was a textbook handled, over-managed all-Amurrican birth trauma. That experience was what sent me running for a midwife from the very first time I was pregnant. I didn't 100% know about midwives or home birth, but I knew I didn't want that!

I only have one hospital birth experience of my own. With my 4th child, I had bells palsy. That almost always means delivery 4-5 weeks early, and thus I was remanded to an OB. The doc herself was quite friendly, understood that I was used to birthing naturally and quickly at home, agreed to my every whim and concern about birthing in the hospital. I thought I was gold, that I could have another phenomenal birth experience despite the hospital. I went into natural labor, 4 weeks before my son's EDD. It was 4 am when I went in, my doc wasn't there, and because I had no signed birth plan, I was subject to the demands of the nurses and the on-call doc, who basically made no bones about the fact she viewed me as just one more cow for the cattle chute. It was humiliating. It didn't matter what I wanted or what I said, it was control and interference from the get go. Trapped on my back, strapped to machines, the whole nine yards, pumped full of pitocin, for no medical reason. It was horrid. Still, I was sure when MY doc got there, things would change. Ha. In reality, I should have known better. I really should have. I've done hours, days of reading and research. I'd read thousands of "what went wrong" kind of stories. I knew, but it was head knowledge. In my heart, I didn't know yet, how brutal, how mechanical and managed birth can be here. I do now. In its own way, it was a lesson I can look back at and be thankful for, in that, I now have a taste of what is the only birth experience some women ever have. (God, what a painful and frightening thought!) Hopefully, it will make me a better birth assistant in the long run.

And yay! Now I just have to scare up the money for my certifications... heh.
 
My last 2 babies were unassisted homebirths and amazing.

I totally forgot. I was going to add we just had our first on purpose unassisted birth a few months ago. It was a.w.e.s.o.m.e. (My teeny boy is currently sleep-nursing in my lap as I type.) We had an accidental unassisted birth with my oldest daughter. Daddy delivered both. :D
 
My first 2 kids was birth center (induced ay 36 week) and hospital birth (40 week) thankfully both labors and births was fast and easy with minimal interventions but I know so many things can go wrong. I'm so glad I remarried and had my girls at home. By the time I learned about homebirth my ex was fixed and he was pro hospital birth anyway.
 
I've given birth both in the States and in Europe. Every single experience in the US was far, far better than that in Europe.

I would say that having limits on who can be in the room has less to do with discrimination than simply recognizing it's a room ready for emergencies and too many people in the way is a problem if something goes wrong.
 
My first delivery is nothing like any one else has posted. I am not sure why, maybe it's the state and town it was in but it was awesome even for a regular ob/gyn and hospital.

My oldest was delivered in Jan 1998 in a suburb of Portland, OR. My birth room had a tub (never got to use due to have fast I hit 10 cm) and I had in the room the entire time:

DH, my mom, my sister, my 8 year old niece, my 2 year old nephew and my step dad. No one had to leave at all. They were all there for the pushing and actual birth (yeah mom took some candid pics of baby's head).

My second was in a pretty liberal state and at a Catholic hospital. Up until the moment when they decided I had to have a c-section, all the same family members were allowed in the birthing room. No one was going to have to leave. For my c-section, only DH was allowed in the operating room and I am happy that was the case (he took some fantastic pics too).

My third was 8 weeks early and due to the emergency of the situation, they were running around like chickens with their heads cut off, I had to be convinced to sign a form to negate having my tubes tied. There was more time (my fault as I had to understand the ramifications of why they wanted me to sign it...this is what I said "...so are you asking me to sign this cuz for some couples who loose a child at birth, one of the ways they get over their grief is to have another child...?" The answer was partly but found out later it was due to other reasons) spent on informing me the baby was not going to make it, that she probably would not be born alive, etc etc etc.

I have to say, I'm grateful of how the ER ob/gyn and one of my ob's discussed the reality of the situation with me. The only thing they weren't telling me was I had lost 3 pints of blood and I might not make it either. Through out the entire process all decisions were discussed with me prior to any staff doing anything, like the anetheologist discussing my spinal versus epidural, giving me the spinal to the actual operation of the c-section. They (the hospital staff) discussed everything with me, getting my ok's and what not. When they took my youngest out, she had flat lined a few minutes before hand, there were no screams, nothing and about a minute later she let us all know she was here. I never had a transfusion or anything (a miracle I've been told). The nicu was very family friendly, breastfeeding friendly, kangaroo bonding friendly. My 8 week premie came home at day 14 (more due to my involvement than anything else).

But I just wanted to point out not all US Births or doctors are as horrible as what is being discussed here. Maybe it's due to being in the Pacific Northwest, maybe not.;)
 
Ermm, Ali, this may be cultural and all but....that IS actually terrifying to me.

The majority of the time in the UK at least, they discuss emergency procedure during the pregnancy, this negates having papers flying in front of your face during labour. To be honest, I find that all rather shocking. I am glad you have felt your experiences were positive ones though and I am so happy to hear your baby was fine after that scare.

I've given birth both in the States and in Europe. Every single experience in the US was far, far better than that in Europe.

Where in the tickety boo is "Europe"? There are many, many countries here all with different health services and different standards of care. We have so far been talking of the UK's National Health Service, no one from other parts of "Europe" have contributed yet, so where is it you speak of?
 
I found that American women found our service undesirable because we wouldn't do things like give them epidurals when they are not in active labour, induce labour because she was over being pregnant or because we refuse to suction healthy neonates. They had been so brainwashed by a system where doctors are paid for every intervention they perform, that they thought these things were actually safer for the baby.
 
Where in the tickety boo is "Europe"? There are many, many countries here all with different health services and different standards of care. We have so far been talking of the UK's National Health Service, no one from other parts of "Europe" have contributed yet, so where is it you speak of?
The UK.

I found that American women found our service undesirable because we wouldn't do things like give them epidurals when they are not in active labour, induce labour because she was over being pregnant or because we refuse to suction healthy neonates. They had been so brainwashed by a system where doctors are paid for every intervention they perform, that they thought these things were actually safer for the baby.

Are you suggesting that if someone dislikes US cares, it' evidence it's bad, but if someone dislikes UK care, it's evidence they're brainwashed? Or better yet, a brainwashed whiner who wants what she wants right now, when she wants it? :D

My problem with my experience there is that in a place that prided itself on having about the best maternal care in the world, I had severe bleeding which I realized after future pregnancies was long-term hemorrhaging. They sent me home like that. And among other things, they did induce labor, which led to other issues.
 
No I was giving my experience of looking after American women as a midwife. They wanted us to do things that were not supported by evidence and felt that they were entitled to have these interventions because they would have been allowed or even recommended them in the US.

Induction is often medically indicated, but inducing someone simply because they have a few of the side effects of being heavily pregnant or to fit around a particular date is not a appropriate medical indication. It was very hard to get many of the US clients to understand this, along with getting them to understand why you cannot have an epidural when you are not in established labour. They would be the ones to tell us that "In America, you can have an epidural at 1cm" (as well as the fact that we see it on TV). They couldn't understand that their doctors have an incentive to ignore evidence based practice that minimises intervention because it means they get less money per birth.

And believe me, I have seen shocking practice here, in fact, a mother in my son's class died a couple of months ago after having a section. The difference here is that the system is set up to be evidence based and promote normal birth. That isn't the case in the US. That is the fundamental difference.
 
Well, before we descend into mommy war madness... let's stop for a sec, shall we? Everybody breathe... ok, ready to go on?

Look, london has a valid point. Most American women are inclined towards epidurals and induction. Evidence based care is not the "norm" for this country. She and I had already been talking back and forth about this subject. I don't know that what she said was a specific poke at you, WH. You and Ali also have a valid point. Not everyone's hospital experiences here have been awful. There are good ones too. My good ones just happen to be at home instead, that's all. :D

Maternity care and birth are different everywhere. I'm sure we could nitpick the bad in every single country. It's more effective and beneficial, however, to find the good and reinforce it. Who doesn't want better birth, right? Isn't that the goal? Better births mean better babies and better mamas. Yes, we have to talk about the bad too. We have to assess it, learn from it, and find ways to make it better. Birth trauma and birth rape are very, very real and damaging experiences. Healing these wounds in our mothers sometimes requires extensive and painful conversation.

But we can surely have this dialogue without stabbing one another over opinions and experiences, yes? The free flow of information and respect will serve us more effectively.


ETA: I see london posted while I was still typing. I hadn't seen her response before I posted. Sorry. I'm gonna let this post stand as it is though.
 
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