need advice please

biamore

New member
Let me start from the beginning... I have been in a 11year relationship with a bi female. We were both very open and honest about our sexuality from the beginning. During the course of our relationship I never really had a boyfriend I did have several sexual encounters with men but no relationship. 1year into our relationship she met a lesbian female who became her consistant friends with benefits. I had no problem with their arrangement. I became really great friends with her. After about 2 years I proposed to her and she accepted. After about 4years the woman y stoppedseeing to one another and completelyceased to be together. A few years pass and we bo have sex with others but no extra relationships. Then one day I meet a man I want a relationship with we get together and we have been together for 4years now. Since my male lover and myself have gotten together she decided to visit another couple out of town. I had no problem with that and she came back after a visit and said she was moving in with the other couple consisting of a straight male and a bi female. I had no problem with that as well. Here comes my problem... We talk every day on the phone since she has moved away. She came back for a visit and things became hot and heavy between us and she stopped me saying she was not allowed to be intimate with me. I was taken aback. Now when she visits we have no sexual contact but we have a strong emotional connection and still love each other. How do I tell her that the new man in her life is not quite conforming to a poly relationship ? Is it my place to even bring it up? She has lived with the couple for about 1 year now. Should I let her figure this out or is she now a lost cause because she lives with them now and visits us instead of vice versa? Any help out there please help?
 
It isn't that he isn't conforming to a poly relationship, it's that she is now in a closed poly relationship with those two people. It sucks that it means that she can no longer have sexual relations with you, regardless of how she feels, but she has chosen to be with them with the understanding it means no longer having sex with you. If she feels that is the better choice for her, you can only accept it.
 
London has it 100% right.

They are in a closed committed relationship. One of their boundaries is not sleeping with others. She was respecting that relationship and her partners. She agrees to those boundaries.
 
Agreed with the last two posters. Give it up, you're friends without sexual benefits now. Accept it and be happy for her.
 
Thank you all for the advice ... I will break off my 11 year relationship / engagement etc. With her. You are right she has moved on and in a possibly more meaningful relationship.
 
How do I tell her that the new man in her life is not quite conforming to a poly relationship ? Is it my place to even bring it up? She has lived with the couple for about 1 year now. Should I let her figure this out or is she now a lost cause because she lives with them now and visits us instead of vice versa? Any help out there please help?

She's "not allowed" to have outside sexual encounters, or she "agreed" not to have outside sexual encounters? The distinction is important. If she believes she's "not allowed" then there could be something fishy going on.

Your relationship aside, I would ask for details as a friend. Is the other couple trying to control her behaviour? Is she vulnerable to a potentially abusive relationship? When she started dating them, was there a dialogue about behaviours, or did they simply hand down the "rules" for their relationship? Having known her for 11 years, what do you believe her frame of mind is like that she would accept people telling her what she is and is not "allowed" to do?

Unlike the other posts, I would be suspicious of a situation where someone I'd been with for 11 years suddenly wasn't "allowed" to be sexual with me. I would be wondering how much of that was her own choice and how much was pressed upon her from the others. It doesn't seem very loving to me, to pressure your new girlfriend to give up someone she's been intimate with for 11 years. That doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't "conform to poly relationship," just that it doesn't seem very kind.
 
p.s. romance and intimacy are not just about sex. A sexless relationship can still be more than "friends." Even if the closed sexual circle is 100% her own choice, that doesn't mean she can't be intimate and romantic and loving with you. Why toss her out just because the physical relationship has changed form?
 
My concern is why is she tossing away an 11 year relationship so quickly.
 
Maybe I need to give a little more background ... We met in 2003. One year after being together my girlfriend "Chelsea" met "Kitty". Chelsea and I became engaged in 2005 new year's eve ... Kitty was there and she said yes to marry me. Making me the "primary" lover. After 4 years kitty and Chelsea called it quits. We were to be married Nov. Of 2008 but one month before wedding day her father died. She was distraught and I didn't press her and told her we could marry whenever she wanted. After 9 years I met "Patrick" I started a relationship with him as well. About a year after Chelsea said she met a married couple she wanted to "play" with I said sure go ahead. She left town for 1week came back and said she was moving in with the married couple. She assured me it wouldn't affect our relationship I told her to go and I am here when u come back. We talk in the phone everyday since she gas been gone sometimes still hours at a time. Her first visit back Chelsea we were laying on the couch and kissing and went to the room and she said "I can not do anything sexual with you because he would be upset and one of the conditions of me being here he made me promise I wouldn't have sex with any men when I came back home" ... I was flabbergasted ... I asked if he knew I am your fiance she said yes. I felt a little struck because I never put stipulations on her and. Vice versa and suddenly a stranger to me has become a wedge between us. I just needed advice on what I should do .. if anything? Is it my place to complain? Or even talk to her about it or continue to be the man in waiting?
 
My concern is why is she tossing away an 11 year relationship so quickly.

Doesn't seem like coercion causing it. Seems like a genuine decision to detach. She's doing it in a fairly calm, maintain the friendship kind of way. Hard to fault it.
 
Seems perfectly clear that she understood sex with the op would be banned and instead of saying 'of course i am going to fuck the guy i'm engaged to. Go to hell', she agreed to those conditions. Making out she is some sort of abuse victim is delusional thinking of someone in total denial.
 
"I can not do anything sexual with you because he would be upset and one of the conditions of me being here he made me promise I wouldn't have sex with any men when I came back home"

It's easy for people with good self-esteem and relatively healthy childhoods to say "of course she can tell that guy to go to hell." Unfortunately, I've got enough friends with poor self-esteem and fucked up daddy issues to know it's not always that simple.

Unless you were there when she made the agreement, how can you be dead certain you know the conditions under which it was made? There's got to be more going on in someone's head when they're willing to cut off their fiance of 11 years over some dude they just met. Don't respond based on what you would do in her shoes. She's not you.

She's living there now, that means she has some dependence on this guy. She said he would "be upset." I hear that as "he'll yell and scream at me." If merely causing someone to "be upset" were enough to determine her choices, what about biamore's upset at losing intimacy with his fiance of 11 years?

Red flag: she has conditions for being able to come home. Not "agreements" but "conditions." As in "you are only allowed to go home if..." How is that not fucked right up?

Look, I'm not saying "I know without a doubt that she is an abuse victim and everything she said and did is coerced." What I am saying is that none of you can possibly know beyond a shadow of doubt that she is free from any form of coercion or manipulation.

Which assumption is more dangerous? If you're all right, then the worst that can happen is they have an argument, she tells biamore that he's overreacting, and the discussion is over. Small consequence. But if I'm right and biamore breaks it off, then she's left without a support network to escape the situation. She feels abandoned and worthless, because even her cherished fiance is willing to throw her away with no resistance. Then the cliche "You can't leave me, no one else will want you, even your fiance didn't fight for you" carries that much more weight. Big consequence.

I sincerely hope I'm wrong. I really truly would prefer that biamore is just yesterday's news and she's moved on to greener pastures, rather than having her trapped in a coercive situation and not believing she has a way out. I'm sure even biamore would agree on that. But love means you don't give up on people when there's even the slightest chance that they need your help, and based on the evidence presented to me, there is at least the chance that she's not acting completely of her own free will. Honestly, it's more of a gut feeling than any black-and-white signs. But in 31 years, I've never once regretted trusting my gut.

Biamore, what does your gut say? After 11 years, you must have a good idea of her character and personality. Is this kind of thing consistent with her usual behaviour? Does she have a history of throwing away loved ones for no apparent reason? Conversely, does she have a childhood or relationship history that makes her vulnerable to manipulative people? Does she have a tendency to placate and do what people ask her to do, even if it's not what she really wants to do?

Heck, I'm a romantic at heart. She talks to biamore every day, sometimes for hours into the night. She came to visit him, cuddled up on the couch with him, only drawing the line at going to bed. She describes being with him as "coming home." Obviously she still has feelings for him. She's poly, he's poly, her new boyf is poly... so even if she's agreed to a closed relationship, what's the harm in fighting for his lady? Maybe it's desperate. Maybe it's pathetic. But maybe it's sweet. Maybe it's exactly what she's waiting for. Maybe she's testing him, seeing whether he really wants to be with her. As you pointed out, she can always tell him to go to hell!
 
I agree with SchrodingersCat, it is worth making a stand, if it doesn't work it doesn't wok but it is worth a try.
 
Seems perfectly clear that she understood sex with the op would be banned and instead of saying 'of course i am going to fuck the guy i'm engaged to. Go to hell', she agreed to those conditions. Making out she is some sort of abuse victim is delusional thinking of someone in total denial.

Agreed. While playing the 'she's not sure of herself' card is a popular sterotype, I think taking people at face value and moving on with life is a lot easier than questioning the validity of the message. These are adults living their lives, regardless of the semantics of words. The choices are made. Why create drama for the sake of challenging a disagreeable answer?
 
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