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PenguinDreams

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Sometimes I just need somewhere to vent and navel-gaze and post self-indulgent musings and whinging that don't necessarily deserve responses and certainly not their own thread.

So I have this weird thing about what I'll call "other people cooties". It's probably best described as my aversion to residual energy from people who have invaded my space. I often find it hard to reclaim physical space or objects that have been tainted with other people cooties because I don't want to go near it to infuse it with my energy or new memories. For example, the building management where I used to live decided that everyone was getting new toilets so I had to let the plumbing contractors into my bathroom. They came early in the morning just after I'd had about a pot of coffee. They left about an hour later. In spite of the pot of coffee I couldn't use my bathroom until late that evening and I still really didn't want to go in there but nature just couldn't wait any longer.

Sometimes when C comes back from being with someone else I get the other people cooties feeling and I don't want to touch him. Sometimes it takes a shower and a full 24 hours before I want to be near him again. My couch is contaminated with other people cooties now and has been for about three weeks. I have no idea how that's going to go away because I can't even think about sitting on it myself. Yeah, I might be a little neurotic.

I worry that once I move out C isn't going to see me. We'll be living about an hour apart and when he moves he'll be somewhere close to Misty. He's specifically choosing a place based on proximity to her, it just happens to be close to where he works. He's also going to have to get a second job and it will probably not be regular office hours like mine so when I'm off on weekends he'll likely be busy. I have serious doubts that he'd want to make the effort to go so far out of his way to see me. I'm starting to think that I'm just kidding myself by thinking we'll have anything more than an occasional friends with benefits arrangement.

I emailed Misty yesterday and she told C she'd received it but haven't heard back from her yet. Last night when he got home from being with her she texted to say something about C's being more available not coming soon enough. C said she didn't mean it the way I interpreted it but I got the impression she's eager for me to move out so she can come over to spend the night. They can't spend the night where she lives and even if I was okay with her sleeping in my bed (I'm not - see other people cooties above) I'd have nowhere else to go so they can be alone. Not that I want to give up a single night with C, but I'm just so sick of feeling like I'm in the way I suggested he take her somewhere for a weekend and get a cabin or a hotel. It's not that I'm that generous or selfless but it might alleviate some of my anxiety about being the obstacle and I'd at least feel like contributed all I could. C didn't take me up on it saying he knew I was offering more than I could deal with. He's a good guy sometimes.
 
No. I have a whole list of excuses:

It's a little more than I'm willing to spend and I'm not really sure I'd be comfortable there.

I don't actually live in Atlanta yet, I'm about two hours away although I commute for work. The thought of going all the way down to the airport sounds like a little more driving than I want to do on a day off.

I was sort of considering going to the meet-up even if I had to go alone but then I realized everyone would probably be attending the conference afterwards and I thought I might feel left out if I happened to not be totally out of my element.

Are you going?
 
I'm not quite sure why the phone call bothered me last night. Maybe I should have just said that. "I'm upset that you talked to her for so long but I don't know why so just let me go to sleep and we'll talk about it tomorrow." That wouldn't have been so hard, would it? But for whatever reason I was so sure that saying I was upset that he talked to her wouldn't be okay that instead I said I was frustrated that she doesn't seem to want to have anything to do with me and I was scared that once I moved out we wouldn't see each other anymore. That went over at least as well as the real sentiment would have, wasn't quite what I wanted to say and still ended in a little tiff.

It upset me that when C got home from spending the afternoon with Misty he said she looked perturbed when someone came up to him and started asking how I was doing. There's a group of people that meet regularly and know I'm his partner. They meet while I'm at work but I've seen them a few times for weekend events. Misty is part of the group but they don't know she's with C now. When I asked C about this he said he didn't know how Misty would feel about everyone knowing they were together. I guess it didn't occur to him to see how I might feel about that and that upset me.

After a lot of reflection I can understand that Misty wants legitimacy and to not feel like a secret that has to be hidden away. I totally get that; I felt the same way when I first started my relationship with C. She should be able to have that if she decides she's comfortable having people know she's dating a guy who has a partner (for now). But that doesn't change my feelings of shame over people knowing and it doesn't make me feel any better about my opinion on the matter not even being considered. When C said he didn't know how Misty would feel about that I thought, what about how I feel? Don't I count?

But I didn't say anything. It just didn't seem important enough at the time. It was still bothering me though when she texted C just as I was going to bed. He told me he was going to go into the next room and call her, he held me a minute and kissed me and then spent two hours on the phone with her while I laid awake unable to sleep. Why does it bother me so much? Is it because despite the affection he gave me before he talked to her I resent that they can spend the afternoon together and still have things to talk about but when C comes from work I get the executive summary of his day before he dives into the computer? Is it that I'm envious of the time and excitement between them? Maybe I'm just scared of not getting anything but leftovers from C because I know he loves her more. No really, he does. I asked him, expecting the standard "different but equal" answer but he actually told me he loves her more. Or could it be that I just feel left out? I had expressed a desire to be present as their relationship developed because without that it just doesn't seem real to me and it's jarring when I'm suddenly confronted with the fact that he has someone else and I have no idea what really goes on between them.

Very recently when C and I were talking about getting back together after a big fight and a brief break-up, I said I was coming to recognize the difference between attachment and love and I was coming to love him from a place that just wants his happiness and fulfillment even when that doesn't come from me or have anything to do with me. It was a new and fragile realization and it was damaged by his response of pushing me away and saying some very hurtful things that he later said weren't entirely true. He does that. When he's lashing out he manipulates the truth and frames it in a way that isn't accurate. But if I felt that selfless love before, where is it now? If he says he's happy in his relationship with Misty shouldn't I just be happy for him? I had said that I accepted that he had intimacies with other people that I wasn't involved with in any way and I meant it when I said it. Now it just bothers me again. Maybe it was only the break-up talking.
 
I keep hearing, "go at the pace of the person who is struggling the most". Up until just recently I was the one struggling the most and was never afforded the luxury of having my struggles catered to. So why does Misty get treated with kid gloves?

I'm really not sure how to respond to what she says she wants. She says she's uncomfortable with coming over to our house because of me. She doesn't want to be affectionate with him, let alone intimate, in front of me and she doesn't want to see him be affectionate with me. She's really hoping I'll move out soon so she can come over and spend the night with him. To me, she has the look of a vulture circling a dead carcass.

How do you deal with someone who has no problems moving very quickly in their relationship with one person while trying to deny that that person also has another lover? Hell, I'm not asking or wanting to do things with C in front of her that she doesn't want to see but using that as an excuse to not go out to dinner or a movie or come over to our home even for a few minutes just sounds like denial to me. Even C has told me she's said things to him that give him the impression of a cowgirl but I'm still the one who gets verbally beat up for not giving her the benefit of the doubt and reciprocating with vulnerability and charity. I'm so sick of this. I don't really see any point in continuing communication with her.

But C and I had a nice time together this weekend. We went out to a nearby lake and sat there talking, watching the ducks and the bugs. He tells me he thinks he's becoming a sociopath and I think I agree.
 
How do you deal with someone ...

Ulitmately, the only person you have any influence over is yourself. Be the best person you know how to be, the person you want to be. Behave in a manner that makes you feel proud of yourself. The most important thing is that you can look at yourself in the mirror and say "Well done!"

Imagine yourself 10 years from now, 20 years from now, looking back at this situation. Which decisions and behaviors will your older and wiser self remember and say "Well done!"?

But C and I had a nice time together this weekend. We went out to a nearby lake and sat there talking, watching the ducks and the bugs.

Now THIS was a good plan.

Jasmine
 
I don't know how proud I'll be of any part of this relationship in 10 or 20 years. I don't know how proud I"ll be of the email I sent her yesterday but it sure did make me feel better.

My relationship with C is almost over and I can feel myself starting to disengage from him already. I'll move out in a few months and I won't see much of him anymore, if at all. It doesn't matter very much to me anymore if he's spending time with me or out doing other things and Misty has made it pretty clear that our paths never need to cross. So I expressed my frustration and hurt and told her I'm done trying to reach out to her since I don't feel my efforts are being reciprocated and I find it pretty offensive that she will share a lover with me but only if she can pretend I don't exist.

It feels freeing. I don't have to worry about the poly anymore or making it work or not withdrawing when I'm hurt and scared and really want to hide. I don't have to strive to make C happy so he'll want spend time with me. I don't have to talk about her or hear about her or wonder how they're doing and how that might affect me. I still love him but I can't live like this.

I don't belong here. I'm monogamous and I never want to be in another poly relationship. But I keep being drawn to this place. Like I still have unresolved issues, maybe? Or I still need it to get through the last throes of my time with C? I don't know, but thanks for your input jasminegld. It's nice to know someone is listening.
 
I'm monogamous and I never want to be in another poly relationship. But I keep being drawn to this place. Like I still have unresolved issues, maybe? Or I still need it to get through the last throes of my time with C? I don't know, but thanks for your input jasminegld. It's nice to know someone is listening.

You are welcome. You belong here as long as you want to be here. The poly community supports monogamous people too.

It's good to figure out what you want in a future relationship, to know what standards to set for yourself, what questions to ask before getting serious.

Jasmine
 
I hesitate whether to say this since I don't know you or your story, PenguinDreams, but it seems that breaking up is a very good decision. Based on just what you've told about him in this thread, it seems your partner is a serial monogamist, not poly, and uses poly as a catchword to justify his unjustifiable actions. You have not been in a polyamorous relationship, it seems to me, just in a very wounding one.
 
That's funny that you say that BlackUnicorn, C and I were talking about serial monogamy this past weekend at the lake. I said that I noticed a pattern (well, not much of a pattern because it's only based on two relationships that have come to fruition but w/e) where he would be extremely passionate with me during the time where he was courting them but once the relationship was consummated he would be completely consumed with the new person. I thought it was because he would channel all the energy from one person towards me because at least he had an outlet for it there. But when he was able to have the person he was pursuing any needs I might have were inconvenient for him and a huge source of many fights. I told him it looked like he really wanted only one person at a time but without the hassle of getting rid of the previous person.

It has been kind of a wounding relationship. I think the hard part for me over the past few days has been facing up to the fact that while it's infinitely better than the relationship I had previous to this, it's still pretty similar in some ways. I keep getting told I'm selfish and immature and insecure when I ask for reassurance or expressions of love or when I ask about the new focus of his affections. The ex used to do this because he expected to be able to neglect me while I catered to his every whim. (In all fairness, it was a master/slave relationship but still...) Now C has done it and he says he gets frustrated and impatient because of something that's wrong with me, with the way I feel. This is supposed to be someone who loves me... but I wonder about that sometimes. I wonder how much of what he wants from other people is love and relationship and how much is just the seduction of someone he can hold up as a mirror to look at his own reflection.

Looking back at the ex, I know I wasn't everything he said I was. So maybe I'm not what C has said about me either? Or it's like I talked about earlier; it's part of the truth and there's enough truth in there to make it seem real but it's still a distortion. I don't know anymore.
 
Sounds like it's time to change the type of men you pick, because both sound similar in how they respond to you and not in a good way.
 
Yeah, I probably just shouldn't be in a relationship at all.

Things have been so calm at home since this weekend. C has been loving and attentive, he calls when he's on his way home from work to see if I need anything and he brought me dinner the other night from our favorite Mexican place. We've spent some quality time in bed and there hasn't been any tension or arguing. It's so nice right now.
 
Yeah, I probably just shouldn't be in a relationship at all.

Not exactly what I ment. You do need to stand up for yourself and realize that your needs are worth being met and your concerns are valid and they should be addressed. You deserve better than you have been getting, ASK for it, insist on it. Expect better for yourself and address it when you don't get it. If we don't respect ourselves, no one else will either. If our partner is unwilling to respect us, then maybe it is time to walk away.

Lack of respect can show up immediately or it can slowly grow over time. The former is where I was. It wasn't until others started recognizing my teenagers lack of respect for me that I realized what had happened. I had to bring it up in counceling before my husband would do more than just blow me off. Since then there has been a huge change and it is an amazing feeling.
 
I know that's not what you meant but it's still true.

I've been dating basically the same guy in every relationship I've had. Even though they all seem "different" at first I can give a pretty accurate profile of a guy just based on the fact that there's a mutual attraction and we seem to be headed towards a relationship. The one exception to that rule was this wonderfully kind and considerate man who lavished me with attention, respected the heck out of me and gave me the freedom to be myself. He drove me nuts and I never really did feel any chemistry with him.

The thing with C was that I knew he had some of the... some might call them character flaws... that I seem to be drawn to and he was very much aware of them. I thought that because he recognized how destructive he could be that he would also be there to clean up the mess afterward. He said he would. We actually did talk about that and I thought I'd found someone who could be cruel to me in ways I seem to need and he said he was excited about finding someone who would allow, even crave, some of the evil he could dish out. But he also said he'd be there to pick up the pieces when it was done and that didn't quite work out as planned.
 
Is anyone wondering how deep the rabit hole goes?

Well so much for the peaceful week. Oh, there's no fight or anything. Yet. But these lulls in the anxiety make me want to let my guard down and be all loving and mooshy. C is very uncomfortable with that. He says I get this look on my face when I go to hug him, all moon-eyed and full of adoration; he hates it. Apparently that's something he only wants when he's trying to seduce someone.

Which is what he's out doing tonight.

I had hoped to talk with him about some of the things in the post above. I hadn't actually remembered those conversations between us until I wrote that. It puts some of these past couple of years into perspective and I wanted to dissect that a little.

But shortly after I got home from work I got a text from him saying he's out with new girl (I'll call her Kali) and I should find my own dinner. He's told me Kali has said that she could never share a lover. But Misty had said she thought poly was just people being greedy and she fell for him pretty damn quick. I have little faith in the strength of their convictions because I keep seeing them throw themselves at C. There's been a couple of others who didn't quite come to fruition, one of which I had a direct hand in discouraging because I wasn't okay with her cheating on her fiancee. I don't really know what is going on with C; I've heard him talk a good game about openness and honesty and wanting relationships that will work long term, but his actions say otherwise.

I know I need someone who is not quite there for me. I need to feel like I don't have all of them and I'm always fighting for more. That's why I thought I'd give poly another shot with C. But this just sucks. I know I have no rights to expect anything from him given our broken-up-but-still-together-for-the-moment status (not that still being together would change his actions in the slightest), but I still want him to be home when I expect him to be home and not out acting like a predator.

That feeling of wanting to be all open and reaching out to him that I felt earlier is gone. Now I'm just withdrawn and disengaged again. Maybe it's best that way.
 
Right on schedule, we had our fight last night.

The evening started off well enough. Went to dinner and had sushi and light conversation. He mentioned that Misty was sitting in on one of his classes and noticed that some guy was definitely crushing on him. I let that pass without comment but it really hurt. It used to be me that went to classes with him and now I've been replaced. I wonder if she also sits in the office with him like I used to and if his colleagues assume I'm out of his life. I wonder if he takes her to the little restaurant where we used to go. It hurts to think that I miss all these things and it doesn't bother him at all.

After dinner we went to sit down by a water fountain. Our discussion of what happened the other night with Kali escalated into a heated exchange of the same things we always fight about. We just keep rehashing the same issues and all it does is add more hurt and resentment between us with no resolution. Towards the end I asked him why he picked a fight and he said it was my reaction to his comment about Misty. I had looked away for a second and couldn't help but let some pain show in my expression. It bothered him that I felt threatened and hurt by it. So his solution is to make it worse?

He asked if I'd be willing to talk one-on-one with Misty. I said no because I don't see the point. I'll be gone soon and I really don't need to see this reminder of everything I'm losing that she'll be gaining. He said that he and I will still see each other after I move and it's important to him to be able to talk about the other people in his life. I don't really know what to think of that. He's told me everything from "I won't have any time and we'll probably see each other very rarely" to this. I've never seen a relationship go backwards very well. I imagine that in the beginning I'll see him maybe once a week or every other week and we'll gradually drift apart because I won't be part of his daily life, he won't be part of mine and seeing him will feel increasing hollow and only emphasize how much I miss him in-between until the pain of being with him outweighs the loneliness of not seeing him at all. He, on the other hand, will still have someone to sleep with and love and share his day with and all the mundane details that make a relationship. And he genuinely doesn't understand how much that hurts me.

In her last email to me Misty had said she wants me to move out because it will put us on more even footing with him and make her feel more comfortable. I rage inside thinking of how callous and completely incorrect that is and I resent her for that. I resent her for not supporting my relationship with C and I resent her for thinking only of what she gets out the end of my relationship with C and no thought whatsoever of how I might feel about that. I blame her for her part in causing the scene that lead to our break-up. So no, I don't see anything productive or positive coming out of a meeting with her.

C said it angered him that I could say such things about someone he cares about. But his feelings for her aren't real to me. I don't see it and I don't see them together and I have a hard time believing she's really his girlfriend. It infuriates me that he expects me to be able to see things from her point of view but I don't see him making any effort to see my side and feel my pain.

I couldn't sleep last night and I woke up crying this morning. I think what really hurts is that he won't miss me when I'm gone. He already has someone lined up to slide right into my place. I'm sick of the fighting and I just want to be able to enjoy the last of my time with him and I don't want to waste a single night not being held in his arms. I won't have that anymore after I move but he'll just continue on with someone else. I hate feeling like I'm so easily expendable.
 
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