Children and Polyamory

[cjj23464]

Ok so another question is what about the kids. How do I explain this lifestyle to them? Mine are all old enough to question additional "interests" if you will. I don't want to cause them any confusion or pain.

[MonoVCPHG]

Hi again..I am pretty opinionated about your story so I will sit back and hopefully someone else will be able to help. I asked my girlfriend Redpepper to take a look at your situation and hopefully she will have a helpful perspective.
Take care

[redpepper]

I replied in another post about kids... but here is some more...

I have a six year old that considers "mono" part of his family. He said he would be okay with him being part of his family as I have explained to him before that we can choose who we want in our family and that they can choose us.

My long time friend and ex-girlfriend is part of our family, she helped me through child birth and is a constant in our lives. I had chosen her to be so and she choose us. She had a girl friend for a good number of years that was also chosen by us, but when they recently broke up she choose to leave our family. I told him that it is her choice and that we will love her regardless of her choice.

I don't have older kids, but I go a lot by my gut feeling on things. I know that for me and my husband, "mono" is a perfect fit, and we have chosen him to be in our family for as long as he wants to be. We have chosen him for life and he us. My boy has accepted this and has welcomed him with open arms and all the love he can muster.

I am very proud that I have taught my child respect for individuality, different genders, races, sexual orientation and for himself. I did this by living it. It wasn't until I had a child I realized how important it is to do this if we are to raise good people to look after the planet and ourselves into the future.

Having said this I feel strongly that it is very important not to tell your kids about our poly relationships or struggles within it, unless some major hurdles have been crossed and there is a sense of comfort, continuation, respect, balance, and caring from all those adults involved. Kids don't need to know our "BS" at any age. It isn't their responsibility to take it on and deal with the stress of it, it's ours. cjj, I think you and your husband have tons of work to do before telling them anything!

[Quath]

For us, we are keeping it from the kids until they are adults. Personally, I think it depends on the kids and their age. If they are young enough, they will accept it as normal if you act like it is normal. The big hurdle is letting them know that others may judgemental. (This is similar to shat children of gay parents had to go through until it became more sociaally acceptable.)

If they are older, they probably have accepted a lot of society's values. so it could be a lot harder. You can either hide it from them or sit down with them and explain everything. (You can talk about the intimacy and you don't explicitely have to mention sex.)

[redpepper]

For us, we are keeping it from the kids until they are adults. Personally, I think it depends on the kids and their age. If they are young enough, they will accept it as normal if you act like it is normal (You can talk about the intimacy and you don't explicitely have to mention sex.)

I think with my son he sees that I just love people and especially his Daddy. I don't show too much affection towards anyone else, although I am a very touchy person, so it shouldn't be a big surprise to him. I am speaking about family and love within it rather than sex. I am leaving him to question sex when he is ready. When he is ready I will answer directly and without emotion or judgment, no matter what he asks. I am sure he will ask about mono and if he does, so be it... I will answer. Keeping anything from him is out of the question as I could not call myself poly if I were. Of course I won't go into details, but will keep to the facts and make sure he knows that loving people can be intimate under certain circumstances.

[Quath]

Back when I was in a triad, both women had children. They were 5 years or younger. So they did not see anything weird about the adults sleeping in one bed. As far as they were concerned, it was just a big slumber party. We talked about what we would say to the kids. We came up with something similar to what you just said, Redpepper. You don't have to go into detail, but if they are asking, then it seems they are ready for some of the knowledge.

On the downside of this, one of the women's ex-husband tried to get custody of the children. The main reason was that he was not paying child support and if he had custody, he could avoid jail. The triad had broke up by that point, but he tried to use that as a reason to get the kids. Luckily that didn't get much traction.

He converted back to being Mormon and got the community behind him to get the kids away from their mother because she was an atheist. The Mormon community worked with him to get the kids though some lies and deceit. The mother seemed like she was going to get the kids back until she ran out of money for her lawyer. (Little off tangent here. :) )

[Lemondrop]

The most important thing for us is to not act as if we're doing anything "wrong". My quad had a long-term commitment in place before we told my oldest, who is 14. He had a little (negative) experience with polyamory through friends, but we had a LOT of long talks with him and hopefully he's feeling more secure and we tried to reassure him that this just means more love for him.

With the younger kids, we just try to reinforce that these people are in our lives for the long haul. None of them seem freaked out by the fact that we all sleep in the same bed when we're together. We discuss the possibility of moving onto the same property together, but we've passed on living in the same house for the time being. Every once in a while when one of the younger kids tries something sly like asking me (the pushover) for something that their parents have told them no about, I joke about being the junior wife and they seem to think that's funny. So far, so good.

I see it kind of like introducing step-parents into their lives--you want to make sure that everyone is committed to the happiness and health of the kids.

[Nadine]

It looks like most of you here don't have young children living with you? I've only been reading a few things, having a bit of a struggle finding where to jump in since I'm so new to the whole thing.
Anyway, I'm just concerned mostly about children in a poly family. With the social stigmas I'm really feeling like this is something I need to hide from my kids and family but I don't want to.
Anyone been there, have any stories or advice, or whatever?
I know I should do the whole cross that bridge when I get there thing but i'm a thinker by nature and love to overthink things

[aussielover]

Hey Nadine,
I can understand your concern. Sunshinegrl and Aussiebloke have young children and I will be coming into their family. It hasn't happened yet, so all we have to go on is theory, but they're planning on letting them know I'm more than a friend living with them, or 'aunt' ..... Hopefully one of them can speak more on it, but again, we haven't actually gotten that far yet. Not until I finally get home, or just before.
Good luck. Hopefully some others can share their experiences

[redpepper]

I have a six year old boy. He knows that we chose our family and they chose us. Starting with choosing each other to marry. We have blood family and chosen heart family.

My husband and I started our relationship in poly about 12 years ago and the woman I was with at the time we brought him into our relationship is still a big part of our lives. We are not sexual, but in every way we consider her family and love her dearly... he knows she is family also and sees Mono, my other primary, the same way.

There is no need for him to know that we are sexual. He doesn't know what that is yet and it will be discussed at his pace. I don't believe in telling kids stuff until it is something that they bring up, or it fits a conversation. For instance we recently went to the local Pride parade. We have been going for years and he has always been told that we go to celebrate having love in our hearts for all different types of people. This year we talked about it again before going. We told him that he can love whomever he chooses, just as we love Mono and our ex even thought they are not a part of our blood family.

He told us how much he loves them and that he loves us too and his friend at school... it was our opportunity to tell him the reason for the parade and also to fit a word in about the increased presence of Mono, my other primary, in his life and allow him to love him also in his own way.

[Mark1npt]

Nothing wrong with a good education, Redpepper. Love to see parents do some actual parenting!

Our kids are off to college, one is pretty open sexually and the other very tight. We are choosing to wait to tell them about our "V" until we are all very secure in our "V" and at the same time they are gaining familiarity with the 3 of us great friends living under the same roof. It makes it easier for us and them because my other life love has vacationed and lived across the street with us their whole lives. Familiarity should take the edge off the news for them and make it easier.

[Nadine]

thanks for the input guys.
I hate to in ANY way complicate my child's life, or make him more "different" or whatever. While I know in the long run it's what is best sometimes you strive so hard to just avoid ANY sort of thing that can cause them hurt.
I'm really hoping to learn from you guys, especially the more open ones. I doubt there will be much openness with my bf's family, since they are mostly closed minded mormons however I would like to not have to hide it otherwise.

[DestinyWaits]

We have 2 normal, well rounded teens who have not been traumatized by the fact that they have always known their parents were poly. At first we introduced our others as friends then the kids would just get used to seeing them there but as they got older we would tell them the truth, to them this was just normal so they were cool with it. We chose, when we started having kids, to never lie to our kids or hide anything from them but as with any "marriage" what goes on behind closed doors stays there (ie, we don't discuss our sex life with the children). I have always taught my kids to be who and what they are and to do and be that which will make them proud of themselves. I have also taught them never to let anyone else dictate how they feel about themselves or the things they do (though I do think staying within the confines of the law is good :D ;)) I have also tried to instill in them the wisdom to make choices wisely and with an open mind because closed minds are minds that have no way to reach beyond the mundane and there is so much more out there.

[XYZ123]

N and I have a 5 year old boy and a baby on the way. We've only had the one poly relationship, which was a V with me at the center. But the three of us (N, P, and myself) were all very loving and affectionate. He knew P since birth and had always been comfortable with her. When the relationship went beyond friendship he didn't know about that aspect of it. As was said before, what goes on behind closed doors in any marriage remains there. All he knew was that mommy and daddy were happy and Aunt P was around more and he got to have more people who loved him and paid attention to him around more often. He was actually affected more after P left our relationship and pretty much our lives. He missed her and still asks about her over a year later.

Our son has always been raised around friends of differing race, religion, and sexual preference so it isn't unusual for him to see two women or two men together in the same way it isn't unusual for him to see an interracial couple. He's happy when he sees happy people. I think we would have allowed more detail of the relationship come out at his pace had it lasted.

Still, I have a difficult time reconciling being poly with being the mother of young children. I understand what you mean about not wanting them to be viewed as "different". N and I discuss it often, even without any other relationships going on. What it usually comes down to is that we need to be comfortable being ourselves with our children if we are ever to hope to teach them to be comfortable with who they become, whatever that may be.

[redpepper]

thank you destiny and xyz for your words... it is so great to know that what I am doing as a mother actually works! and that others are as open and honest about their lives also. It's so true that we, as parents, can only be ourselves and model happiness and our own personal way of doing things, whatever that means to us...

[Nadine]

Being around others is definitely helping me to feel more comfortable with it. I have to admit, there's not a lot of "alternative" scenes here in Idaho, no matter how hard I look. I've found a few *tiny* groups.. and I'm hoping to find more. I think maybe normalizing it personally will help. A lot.
I love your input. Thank you

[Mark1npt]

America's way of life is based on God and religion. All family life is based around that premise. Sure there are more and more people with each generation (like myself) who are eschewing those old ways and setting off on new trails (like the poly community of today) but it may well take many more generations and a more widespread disinclination toward formal religion, for any major mainstreaming of the poly lifestyle to occur. Of course, radical changes to our way of life by global catastrophe, food shortages, economic collapse, etc would throw many of us together into communal like communities quicker and maybe hasten the overall change in society leading to more poly, but I digress!

Sorry to get off topic. For now, all we can do for our kids is teach and lead by example. If they see love and respect, they'll be loving and respectful. Sounds like some of you fellow parents here are doing a fine job. To the others, it can be daunting and take more time to teach and acclimate your kids to doing things differently in society, but it can have great rewards. We do it already in many ways by teaching about avoiding drugs or driving drunk, etc. What's a little more teaching or parenting?

[DestinyWaits]

M1 is absolutley right. You can have faith and be at peace with God without religion...yes? If what children see (and are raised in) is a loving and commited relationship then that is what they will become,that is what they will emulate.

[redpepper]

If what children see (and are raised in) is a loving and commited relationship then that is what they will become,that is what they will emulate.

Even better if they are raised by the community we create for them! I grew up in church and it was my community. Now my boy is being raised in a community also of loving adults that care about each other and also his well being...with out the religion....

he is so lucky :) it makes me so happy. I waited a long time to have a child specifically so I would be in a place to give him everything. I really am glad I waited until I was strong and well rounded so that I knew what I wanted and could then offer him anything and everything. Lots of close loving people around him was on top of the list!

[MonoVCPHG]

Lots of close loving people around him was on top of the list!

Count me in... in any way I can be:D

[Sunshinegrl]

Hey Nadine,
I can understand your concern. Sunshinegrl and Aussiebloke have young children and I will be coming into their family. It hasn't happened yet, so all we have to go on is theory, but they're planning on letting them know I'm more than a friend living with them, or 'aunt' ..... Hopefully one of them can speak more on it, but again, we haven't actually gotten that far yet. Not until I finally get home, or just before.
Good luck. Hopefully some others can share their experiences


This.. We plan to let the kids know that we Love Aussielover and Asked her to be part of Our family."Our" kids will become OUR kids..They pretty much have in my mind. When and If they ask any more questions then that we will answer them in the best possible way according to there age. Them thinking of her as an "Aunt" actually is the last possible thing we want! We havn't travelled this path yet. But from what I see here I think it will be very doable.

I "know" you Nadine.. And your children are still fairly young. I think that introducing someone into their lives a this age would be an easier progression then with teens!

Oh I found this just now....

http://www.polyamorousmisanthrope.com/2005/03/03/but-what-about-the-children/

[aussielover]

This.. We plan to let the kids know that we Love Aussielover and Asked her to be part of Our family."Our" kids will become OUR kids..They pretty much have in my mind. When and If they ask any more questions then that we will answer them in the best possible way according to there age. Them thinking of her as an "Aunt" actually is the last possible thing we want! We havn't travelled this path yet. But from what I see here I think it will be very doable.

:D
I miss them lots. Little monkeys :)

[Nadine]

THAT is what I want, I just want more family. And for our kids to be "our" kids, just like you said.
I think you're right though, with how young my kids are it's a bit complex

[XYZ123]

P was "aunt" because she was "Aunt P" long before the relationship blossomed. He was comfortable calling her that and she was happy with that title. But she, like most of the close adults in our lives who are not poly with us, was seen as a figure of love, respect, and authority. In other words, she had just as much ability to reward his positive behaviors as to punish his negative ones, so long as we all came to an agreement on the actions/consequences-no different than when it is just myself and N. Labels are just words which make people feel comfortable. What's important is the nature of the relationship itself.

[BlkDaddy4White]

I personally dont think its something the kids should know...especially if they are YOUNG...teenagers you cant hide that sort of thing from...but i think all you do with yuonger kids is confuse them and open them up to the type of problems that we ALL dont think they should be open too.

[River]

I personally dont think its something the kids should know...especially if they are YOUNG...

BLKDaddy...,

You're suggesting that young children will somehow be harmed or damaged by knowing that their Daddy or Mommy has more than one love relationship?

If so, why and how does this hypothetical harm take place?

[NeonKaos]

River, I think you might be putting words in his mouth. It sounds like he's simply saying that kids should not know the details of their parents' sex-lives. We have some other folks on the forum who are IN this kind of living arrangement and they agree that the kids do not need to know what goes on in the bedroom.

This would hold true even for parents who are not poly, or for single parents who are dating.

[XYZ123]

I personally dont think its something the kids should know...especially if they are YOUNG...teenagers you cant hide that sort of thing from...but i think all you do with yuonger kids is confuse them and open them up to the type of problems that we ALL dont think they should be open too.

I have to disagree. My parents were in relationships outside their marriage when myself and my siblings were young (though those relationships were complicated and I wouldn't consider them the true meaning of poly). They thought they did well to hide it. We all knew. Even my brother by the age of three sensed something different about that friendship. We caught them out on it all the time and it wasn't as if they weren't being careful. Kids are smarter than most adults give them credit for. Being lied to hurt and confused us more than anything they did with the lights out. We also had to deal with the whispers of other adult family members over it and the confusion of why our parents would do something they must know was wrong since they wouldn't tell us the truth. We all came to hate and resent the other couple our parents were involved with and it led to some pretty nasty family fights.

They are still deeply involved with the other couple, though I don't know entirely the nature of that relationship anymore. As an adult I can mentally and emotionally handle it (most of the time) and it helped that my mother FINALLY (only a year ago) admitted some of what had happened more than 20 years ago. But the lies and secrecy and resent have pretty much destroyed the respect and trust within the entire family, including between my parents who are still unhappily married. The damage done and the feeling that their outside relationships must be "wrong" and "abnormal" (based on what others said and the refusal of my parents to discuss it with me) is in part what caused me to repress my bisexuality, cheat on my former partners rather than even entertain the idea I might be poly, and stay in abusive relationships with men because "at least a male/female relationship was normal". I thank the gods I have the husband I do who saw and accepted me for what I was even before I could look in the proverbial mirror.

The bottom line is that the kids don't have to know the dynamics of the sexual relationship but NEVER lie to them or try to hide from them the nature of the relationship. It's about balancing the details with their level of understanding and maturity, not hiding it until they're old enough to figure it out on their own and be confused and resentful for feeling deceived.

[River]

River, I think you might be putting words in his mouth.

Nah, I really was asking a questoin for clarification purposes. Note the question mark.

As I read what BlkDaddy said, he could as easily mean that the little ones shouldn't be exposed to polyamory itself.

As for talk of parental sexual relations with young children, or children generally, I can't see how that will be good for them, necessary, or helpful. But to conceal one's polyamory from kids seems equally unnecessary and unhelpful.

Openly acknowledging multiple love parterings with kids is something quite different from discussing bedroom activities! It's the latter which seems to me unnessary and inappropriate.

[NeonKaos]

I guess it would depend on how "out" the parent(s) want to be, since little kids can sometimes be blabbermouths without realizing what the consequences are. If a little kid blabbed something out at school, for example, it could get reported to CPS and be blown way out of proportion, causing much more grief than it would if the adults simply told the kid that #3 (or whomever) is "our good friend, your 'auntie'".

fucken' a... my computer chair just collapsed under my butt.

[XYZ123]

[QUOTE=JAs I read what BlkDaddy said, he could as easily mean that the little ones shouldn't be exposed to polyamory itself. [/QUOTE]

This was how I took his statement. I apologize if I was incorrect but it did sound as if he were saying the kids shouldn't know about poly at all. Of course, the knowledge about the sexual aspect is not helpful or necessary.

[River]

... my computer chair just collapsed under my butt.

Oh, my, I do hope the chair wasn't hurt!




:D




No..., really, you okay?

[NeonKaos]

Yes, thank you, I felt it wobble before the seat fell off!

[redpepper]

oh my ygirl... you a bit squiffy my friend? :p

I tell my boy that I love Mono and that he is a part of our chosen family. He doesn't need to know more than that. He knows I love his dad and other family members... and we have confidence in that love, what more does he need to know really. Not only that he is loved by all of us too. That is what Poly is all about, not just the sex!

[AutumnalTone]

I don't think you have to hide that you care for and value any partner other than a spouse. Kids adapt to how their families operate without any trouble. They won't necessarily understand exactly how it all ties together until they get older; they'll just know that there are more people mommy & daddy love, and as long as it doesn't threaten their security, it's OK.

My children are no longer small. My youngest is 12 and knows I have a wife and that I was also seeing her mother from before her 11th birthday to last autumn, and that my wife (the step-mother) knew all about it. We didn't explain it to her and it never came up as a problem. Since her mother and I have split, I don't spend as much time at their apartment when I visit, which I suspect she misses (she likes having all the parents together at the same time). My son was old enough to tell what, exactly, was going on and he didn't bat an eye, as he's been exposed to all manner of loving arrangements over the years.

[Degenerate]

HI

I am new here so this will be my first discussion post. thought might be worth sharing my own exeprience a tad.

I have one almost teen and two almost five year olds (and am in the UK). With my eldest I kept it quiet for years - back then I lived with her other parent and I saw other partner/s away from home,

As I have matured as a polyamorous person (17 years now) I have found less and less need to hide what is not shameful - love is not adult-only. it is also hard to have any kind of relationships where people do not come to my house in order to keep total secrecy.

I agree with a few other posters that teaching our kids deceit instead of love is a bad idea. These days I give my children information on an age appropriate 'need to know' basis without complicating it with things they don't need to know. Children learn how it is without the prejudices others have. So my youngest ones probably don't understand yet that most people don't have two partners, who are sometimes there together,but they know I do and they enjoy having other caring adults in their lives - neither of my partners live with me, but they do hang out with all of us.

With so many one parent families struggling in the UK, I see no reason for me to deny my children caring relationships with safe adults as long as they always understand I am their parent and I am responsible and reliable as a parent.

De

[Indref]

My girl's man has two adorable kids, and a third he see's once every two weeks, the whole divorce visitation thing.

The three sweethearts have easily taken my girl on as a parent, and just a few weeks ago she was referred to as 'second mummy', which is of course painfully cute.

You cannot hide facts from children forever. Pain now, or pain later, if there is going to be pain it cannot be avoided. It's best to simply answer the questions as they come, lies don't get you anywhere!

In my opinion, being the kid in school with the poly parents isn't so bad. I doubt it would really come up. There are so many things 'worse' that a kid can be picked out on. Then again, I've yet to have a child in school, or be that child, so this is me guessing.

[Lemondrop]

In my opinion, being the kid in school with the poly parents isn't so bad. I doubt it would really come up. There are so many things 'worse' that a kid can be picked out on. Then again, I've yet to have a child in school, or be that child, so this is me guessing.


I don't see why the other kids would even know. Lots of families have very close family friends who are always around.

I've been involved in a homeschool co-op with my female partner for several years. Some of the other moms have guessed, and some just think we hang out together a lot. So far, it hasn't been a problem. In ten days our children start public school, so we'll see if anything comes up!

[Indref]

I don't see why the other kids would even know. Lots of families have very close family friends who are always around.

I've been involved in a homeschool co-op with my female partner for several years. Some of the other moms have guessed, and some just think we hang out together a lot. So far, it hasn't been a problem. In ten days our children start public school, so we'll see if anything comes up!Please let me know how that pans out!

[redpepper]

I've been involved in a homeschool co-op with my female partner for several years. Some of the other moms have guessed, and some just think we hang out together a lot. So far, it hasn't been a problem. In ten days our children start public school, so we'll see if anything comes up!

what made you decide to send them to public school?

[DestinyWaits]

As far as the school thing goes, my sons are in the 10th and 7th grades and their friends, their friends parents, and the teachers and administrators all know because we have included our partners in all the school functions as they were part of the children's lives and no one seems to have a problem with it. CPS has never been called, people don't leave when we come around, on the contrary, they come up to us and carry on conversations because they see the love we and our loves have for the children and since both of my sons are a-b honor roll kids and involved in EVERYTHING that happens at school they can see that what I do behind closed doors does not effect them in the negetive. And the kids seem to get along with us better then most of the other adults and I think it is because they can be honest with us and they know we won't judge them, as a matter of fact, some of my eldest son's friends will come to me with problems (the ones of a sexual nature) that they don't feel confortable going to their own parents about because we aren't sooooo uptight!! I'm one of the cool parents!!!! :D:p

[Mark1npt]

Our sons and my other love's daughter are all off to college and know nothing, other than we are all dear friends who've spent 20 years doing things together. Surely they know we all share some kind of deep friendship/love together but don't know the actual details or living arrangements we share intimately. I know that atleast 2 of the 3 ( who are more eclectic)will take it well, knowing that their parents are in love and living well with eachother, the third one is probably a little more conservative and will initially probably not know how to handle it. He may view my other love as a threat to his mom, but I don't think it would last for long. I know the secrecy wears on my wife as she worries that we may screw up our kids lives forever. They are all adults now and probably not nearly as shocked by alt lifestyles as my wife is. I'm sure they'll be ok and our fears unfounded. Having said that we'll probably wait another year or two if we can to ease them into the idea. Don't know if this helps anyone else out there.

[Lemondrop]

Please let me know how that pans out!

We had orientation tonight, and I attended with my other partners and their children. (My husband works nights so he couldn't attend.) When they were asked who they were by my daughter's teacher, they introduced themselves as family. No other questions were asked. We'll see how it progresses. We all met all of the children's teachers, and walked to each of their classrooms, and let each of the teachers know that any one of us might be picking up the kids. (Even though we live in different houses, this school is a Montessori program and we all applied to it.)

what made you decide to send them to public school?

Actually, it was a combination of many different factors. My other partners' daughter has attended the Montessori program for two years, and she loves it. My daughter has begged to go to school for some time. I thought the Montessori program would be closer to what we've been doing at home than sending her to a regular school. My oldest, who is 15, is attending a public high school this year, and I felt that it wouldn't be fair to send him but tell my daughter that she couldn't go. Last but not least, our finances are such that I might have to get a job, and this was better than trying to fit an education into my spare moments.

I wanted to add, our kids are 4, 8, 10, and 15. We are a quad of married couples. It's been hard on the 15 yo because we were monogamous until earlier this year. At no point have I ever felt it appropriate to discuss our sex lives with our kids--I have flat out told the 15 yo that it was none of his business. But we have worked very hard to reassure the 15 yo that we are in a committed relationship, that his father and I love each other and do wish to continue our relationship with each other, and that the other couple love him and want his happiness just as much as we do. I stressed that he now has two extra people to go to if he needs someone to talk to--and that those other two people might have a different perspective than his parents. It's taken him a while, but I think he's starting to adjust. We stress to the kids that we are a family.

When we are all in the same house, the adults sleep in the same bed. The younger kids all seem to accept this and it doesn't bother them in the least. We are not overly affectionate with each other in public. I know that the 8 yo recently told her grandparents something, because the grandmother reacted oddly and made a comment about our sleeping arrangements. However, that's as far as it went. It really isn't a topic that comes up often in normal conversation. Even though we just started school, we've been in the homeschool co-op together for years and none of our kids have made any comments at the co-op that have raised any eyebrows.

[pokey]

How do people deal with family members who notice you spend an unusual amount of time with an additonal person outside of your marriage and almost feel jealous and a bit confused with the situation?

[vandalin]

How do people deal with family members who notice you spend an unusual amount of time with an additional person outside of your marriage and almost feel jealous and a bit confused with the situation?

Why would "they" feel jealous? I can see confused, but I'm not getting the jealousy part unless "they" wanted to have that kind of relationship with the person/family.

[pokey]

I guess they feel like I spend less time with them and feel that I am probably more distant towards them than I was in the past, because I feel like they might "figure it out"

[Lemondrop]

Pokey, I really think that, unless you want your family members to know that you're polyamorous, you should just act as if you other partner is a really good friend. If you act as if you have a secret, they'll know something is up, do you know what I mean? But it's not unusual to have a close friend of either sex that you spend a lot of time with. Keep in mind that you don't have to talk about your sex life, and it's none of your family member's business. There's no need to cut your family out of your life, and doing so will probably make them MORE suspicious.

[MonoVCPHG]

Redpepper's son has expressed some jealousy over how much "date time" I get with his mom. Not because of my time with her, but because of her time with me! I took Monday off so me and her son could have a full day together and he seems quite happy with this :) I also told him I need more time with his dad too.

It's nice to be so popular with the chosen family you love :D

[redpepper]

How do people deal with family members who notice you spend an unusual amount of time with an additonal person outside of your marriage and almost feel jealous and a bit confused with the situation?

are you sure it's not envy of which you speak?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jealousy

"Jealousy is an emotion and typically refers to the negative thoughts and feelings of insecurity, fear, and anxiety over an anticipated loss of something that the person values, such as a relationship, friendship, or love. Jealousy often consists of a combination of emotions such as anger, sadness, and disgust. Jealousy differs from envy in that jealousy is about something one has and is afraid of losing, while envy refers to something one does not have and either wants to acquire or to prevent another from acquiring."

I have this same question... especially as a mother!

My thing is with others being possibly envious of what I have as I am so happy and fulfilled. They don't understand how much work it has taken to get here and that they too can create whatever works for them...

I'd love to know how to deal with the outside world on this one... perhaps not on this thread though, I will start another.

[redpepper]

Just a small update on the topic of poly with kids... this is an older thread but as I've written on here before about it I thought this would be as good a place as any to write.

The major concerns my extended family have had about my poly nature and the of existence of my other primary in my life is that of how it effects my son. They are worried about my relationship with my husband too, but my son is the big concern.

They thought I wasn't spending enough time with him, that it would be weird for him and that he will be confused as to who his father is. There is the added pressure of what will happen when people at his school find out. Or others on our street.

I am concerned too. I have never had this relationship style be viewed by anyone but the people involved before and I am flying by the seat of my pants with it. I figure the best I can do is keep my communication going with my son, give him as much time with me as I can and wait for his questions, statements and view points to reveal themselves.

Today I awoke to the sounds of my boy stirring in his room and calling for me. When I went I reminded him that Mono had looked after him the night before and that he was still here and would look after him while his Daddy and I slept a bit longer. I stayed with him while he used the toilet and dressed and chatted with him as he got ready... Out of the blue he asked me, " Is Mono's bed comfortable (of course his name isn't really that, but you get the ideas;))?" I told him he would have to ask him as I didn't know if it was. He replied that I must know because I go there and sleep in it with him. I answered that I do actually do that and that I thought he meant the couch bed he had slept in all night. He said, "no, you go there when I am asleep sometimes to sleep in his bed." I said I do and that it is indeed comfortable. He laughed and just said, "Oh" in a shy kind of "I'm not sure I should be asking those questions way" and ran off yelling out, "Mono, I'm ready for our date now!" (he calls it a date because he once complained that we both get dates with Mono and he doesn't).... I went back to bed full of thought.

He obviously knows more than I realized... it made me realize also that hiding our love for one another hasn't worked. Even though we have done our best to hide it. In fact I wonder if it caused his shyness around asking his question....? I don't know? Was the shyness out of a feeling of loss in someway, or observation, or just that he wasn't sure he was allowed to talk about it...? Maybe I should sit him down and have a heart to heart? He knows I love Mono... but I love a lot of people and say so...

I feel as if I have to tread very slowly here, but perhaps not as slowly as I originally thought.

[NeonKaos]

It might be ok if you just said "I love Mono the same way I love your father, but it doesn't affect the way I love you. I love you the MOST."

My mother always told me that, and she was seeing a married man for 14 years (it was an "affair" his wife "knew" about, but it wasn't "poly").

But some mothers get all up into explaining how "There are different kinds of love, etc. etc." Kids that age, or any age really, don't need to process all that. They just need to feel secure that their world isn't going to come crashing down around them. Just tell your son that whatever happens, you (and his father) love HIM the MOST. It's probably true anyway.

[redpepper]

Thanks ygirl! That is a very good point. I think I will tell him just that.

He knows I love him most as I say it all the time but I have never said it in the context of mono. Great idea! :)

[NeonKaos]

Thanks ygirl! That is a very good point. I think I will tell him just that.

He knows I love him most as I say it all the time but I have never said it in the context of mono. Great idea! :)


My mother would be glad that this advice was useful to someone, since I'm not having kids myself.

[AutumnalTone]

Anyway, I'm just concerned mostly about children in a poly family. With the social stigmas I'm really feeling like this is something I need to hide from my kids and family but I don't want to.
Anyone been there, have any stories or advice, or whatever?


My daughter was 11 when her mother and I began dating again. She had already been told that my wife and I are poly, though I'm not certain she fully understood. When I began dating her mother while still married, though, I doubt she could mistake the meaning. She never asked for any details; she just knew that I was married to her step-mom and dating her mother at the same time.

My son hasn't ever had any trouble with relationships of any sort. My ex-wife's family provided him with a gay uncle and a lesbian aunt (and their partners) and I've discussed my relationships with him on occasion. He's 20 now, though his disabilities mean he's very much 12 in so many ways.

I suspect teenagers would have more problems with poly than younger children.

[Funk2Lopez]

My husband and I are actively trying to have a child. Our girlfriend is older than both of us and has an 18 year old son. When we talk about us having a baby she has very definate opinions about how a child should be raised and cared for. It's beginning to make me worried that she'll try to take a much more active role in the rearing of the child than I'm comfortable with. I mentioned my fears to my husband but probably not at the best time as we were both tired and about to go to sleep. So he probably doesn't remember the conversation. I plan to take a Child Developement class at the local community college soon to be a good well informed parent. I guess I'm just concerned she'll make me feel like I know nothing and should do everything her way. Sometimes I feel like we are both trying to be first wife instead of equal partners.

[NeonKaos]

You all need to accept that YOU ARE the "first wife". it is what it is. There was a conversation about this in another thread. About not forcing "equality". If you are trying so hard to "be equal" there is obvious something that just "is" NOT EQUAL, and rather than fighting it, you's should be exploring it. If you deny the UN-EQUALNESS now, you might never end up at a place where you "are equal".

having said that - if you have a kid with your husband, you will not only be "first wife" but you will be "parents". You and he will have a whole new level of relationship between you, in essence a "triad" with the new baby. Why should this GF be able to dictate to you how you raise your own kid? Why can't you put your foot down when it comes to that?

Are you sure you want these things in your life? Or are you going along with some or all of it to keep your husband happy?

I can't even bring myself to say much more because I can't find words to describe it, and who am I to tell you what to do with yourself. All I know is, I would not bring an innocent person (a baby) who has no say in matters, into a situation with so many loose ends.

[XYZ123]

There's a great thread on here about children and polyamory, but not one that specifically addresses what you're asking.

I have one child with my husband and another on the way. We had a gf who was a friend of the family for years (before we had the first child) whom I actually found very helpful and enlightening in her perspectives. But, while she was engaged in his life, and happy to offer advice, and he loved her dearly, she did NOT overstep her bounds and essentially tell us how to raise him. She took on an "aunt" role to him rather than third parent and it was a role we were ALL comfortable with. Should we ever form another poly relationship, I'd want to be with someone involved with the children as my family IS my life and inviting someone into my life and love means inviting them into my family.

It's really up to you and your husband to decide how much influence she should have in this situation. It's also up to her to decide how comfortable she is with your ultimate decision. Will she be a second mother, with all the adult privileges and responsibilities that go with? Will she take on a role of "aunt" or other loving and nurturing adult, but be expected to abide by the parenting standards you set down? Do you value her experience as a mother and have interest in her views, but maintain a "take it or leave it" approach? Is she expected to butt out completely when it comes to your child?

If you're bringing a baby into this world, and this lifestyle, these are things that need to be discussed between ALL of you BEFORE that baby is born. You also need to understand that, at least for awhile, this is going to create plenty of INEQUALITY as you redefine boundaries and needs and she may have different expectations about the raising of this child than you do. Your husband may even have different expectations. Even in mono couples parents often have at least a few strong opinions that differ on how children should be raised. These require communication and negotiation and compromise as it is, without throwing more opinions into the pot.

If you feel you have an equal relationship and want to keep it that way (in all areas except for the raising of the child) then you need to have a discussion between the three of you about your fears, hopes, desires, and expectations. You may find she's happy to step aside in this case. You may find your husband does or does not share your fears. Or she may not be able to handle the new unequal feel of the dynamic with you two being parents while she is not involved in that aspect. The point is, anything can happen. But, without first knowing everyone's feelings on it, all you can do is worry and guess. It isn't fair to bring a child into a relationship (of any dynamic) without being prepared for handling the needs of that child. Good luck.

[Fidelia]

It is right and good for people to have definite opinions about all kinds of things, including the rearing of children, and to freely express themselves, especially with the people they love. It is also right and good for people to respect the rights and boundaries of others, especially others they love.

Approaching the situation with love and respect for all concerned, discuss your worries with your loves. Know what your boundaries are, and express them. Ask for what you need. Give them a chance to love, respect and support you in this area of your lives. You may find they are each glad for the opportunity.

[Winterfire]

From the way you're talking, it's sounding to me like the relationship you have with your girlfriend is a lot more casual? If the relationship with her is not at a level where it would be considered a life partnership, then I wouldn't think she should have that much say in how you raise your child.

You really should have a conversation about your relationship and how you're feeling. You mention being equal partners, maybe she's feeling like having a baby is something you are all doing together, rather than how you're feeling about it that it's something you and your husband exclusively are doing?

[Funk2Lopez]

Thank you all for your advice and opinions. I was very tired when I wrote that and I know I left out a lot that might clarify things. I also phrazed things a bit weird that made sense to my sleep deprived mind but probably not much to anyone who read it without the other facts. Mostly I think I was just airing some fears about bringing a baby into this world, and how and who would be raising it. I was really wondering if anyone had had any good or bad experiences with being poly and having children. Thank you
XYZ123 for sharing your story.

Also eventhough we are trying, I might not ever be able to conceive and that is a whole other issue that I don't feel strong enough to face right now.

[XYZ123]

I wasn't "supposed" to be able to have children either (uterine and ovarian cysts which would prevent a healthy pregnancy). And N was told in college that he was most likely sterile (low sperm count). I believe I lost a pregnancy as a teen though I was so scared and stupid I never confirmed it conclusively, but my GYN feels strongly it is so. My son (OUR son, N and I) was supposed to be a fraternal twin according to all the info we have from early in the pregnancy. I nearly lost him three times. I'm now about two weeks away from having what, by all accounts, will be our healthy baby girl, despite a rough pregnancy fraught with sickness. Both were conceived accidentally, this one while on birth control. I really believe if it's meant to happen, it will. And, if not, there are no shortage of children out there in need of a loving home. :)

[greenearthal]

And, if not, there are no shortage of children out there in need of a loving home. :)

But then, nor is there the "abundance" of them that is marketed to us. That's more fiction than fact.

-------------------
Speaking from experience, many human individuals become convinced that they can not have children, only to find later that they can/could. I have found the fertility prognosis of many physicians (especially practicing medicine in the USA) to be almost entirely useless. And a lot of anxiety in this area ends up being needless.

Good luck on your journey.

[XYZ123]

But then, nor is there the "abundance" of them that is marketed to us. That's more fiction than fact.

Yes and no. There are alot. It's just a matter of how many hoops the system forces you to jump through and whether those hoops are set on fire.

-------------------
Speaking from experience, many human individuals become convinced that they can not have children, only to find later that they can/could. I have found the fertility prognosis of many physicians (especially practicing medicine in the USA) to be almost entirely useless. And a lot of anxiety in this area ends up being needless.

Good luck on your journey.

Very true. And the worry all too often becomes a self-fulfilling prophecy. Couples try for years, go through procedures, give up-and then finally conceive naturally once the pressure to do so is off.

[redpepper]

I find this an interesting thread and I am torn by it. On one hand I am concerned for you as your third....( I don't know what configuration you have...? anyway, this woman in your life...) seems to want to take on a role in child rearing that is bigger than you feel comfortable with and on the other she seems to just be simply excited for you and the prospect of having a baby in her life that she can simply admire, cuddle with and then hand back to you when it starts to cry.

You and our husband are doing this together, that might be a threat to her as she is not a part of it. Since she has already had a child she might be feeling that she can feel a part of it by telling you how she raised her kids and how she can help. There is nothing wrong in that. She should be expressing her concerns really, but perhaps they have not surfaced as such yet.... perhaps you could ask her if that is what is happening for her?

I would think that you would also feel a bit threatened as you are the one who will get huge, have hormonal changes, feel like building a nest for your baby, all insular and self absorbed. This means your husband will go through what I believe all daddy's do and that is his feelings of being left out. His role will change in your life and he will have the responsibility to be the meal cooker, the house cleaner, the money maker, the foot rubber, the get up in the night to change diaper guy,,,, all those fun things that seems thrust upon men that have no connection physically to baby when it is in the womb... it's quite a shock and some men just whine and complain about it and go and seek a hot chic to give them some well needed attention. This woman could very well become a bigger part of his life than you feel comfortable with.

Lots of talking ahead and lots of growing to do.... just as much as growing a baby.

I hope you have a very solid relationship before getting into babies... you will need it.

[LovingRadiance]

I have functionally lived in a poly family for the last 19 years. I didn't know it was called poly and it wasn't always SEXUAL.

My best friend whom I call my sister and I raised my oldest daughter for the 1st 6 years. My daughter calls her "auntie" but their relationship is that of mother and daughter just as our relationship is.
A variety of boyfriends (and my daughters father) were in and out of our lives and all participated in some way-but Em and I were primary in the decision making process (obviously legally it was just me, but functionally it was equal).

I married when my daughter was 6 and he had a 2 year old boy. We had a son together. Em lived with us and continued to be a primary caretaker of our children (neither of us was or is sexually active with her and she lives with us now as well). She held more of a true auntie roll with my stepson, but with the new baby she was just as much a second mom as she had been with my oldest.
Years go by-our youngest is 7 and we had another little girl, she is biologically mine and C's but she is FUNCTIONALLY Maca's and mine. Maca IS daddy and I am mommy. Em is auntie and her roll is very much a typical auntie-not a mother role. C is an uncle roll, but she (as with all the kids except my oldest) call him by his given name with a "IE" added to the end. The oldest did always call him her uncle.
He has pretty close to equal say/so in the kids lives in day to day life. But MAJOR decisions remain only Maca's and mine.
Em also has pretty close to equal say/so in the kids lives in day to day life. But MAJOR decisions remain solely Maca and mine.

SO-can it work? Yes it can. But you need to sit down and discuss with your husband first WHAT is it EACH of you expect to happen and then find the ageed upon middle ground. After you two are on the same page you need to talk to her and find out what SHE is hoping her role will be with the kid(s). Try to take a serious look at her desires to see if they will benefit you. If they will-great. If not-then it's time to set ground rules.

By the way-you likely will have to do the same thing with grandparents as well-so you may as well use this as practice! :)

[DrunkenPorcupine]

So...

I have to admit that I'm still slightly taken aback by how this question comes about, both because it so oddly echos my personal experience and because it's actually NOT borne of my own head.

A few days ago, at a party for a mutual friend, this lady I know and like started chatting about polyamory. The conversation was very natural and enjoyable, though afterwards I wondered why she decided to chat with ME about this... Is there Poly-Dar?

Anyway. Among other things, one thing she mentioned was children. She's old enough to be worrying about her biological clock and complications surrounding said clock. And until recently, she's never considered having children. He partner never seemed to be a person she'd have children with, and she didn't see herself doing it alone.

But now that they're exploring poly, she's suddenly finding herself asking these questions. And it's become nagging for her.

My answer, even included in my introduction, has always been "Childless" (or childfree) but as my range of partners is opening up, I realize there are scenarios where I might very well feel the love and commitment that are the foundation of the security to have kids.

Please don't take that last line the wrong way. I love, and am committed to my wife. But... I don't know... There's a sense there, that's all.

I don't want to close this thread off, but I would like to highlight that I am asking a specific question about how children relate to certain types of poly dynamics, specifically the "primary"/"Secondary" dynamics.

Does anybody have any experience with this dynamic and the introduction of kids? I suppose I'm looking for a success story, but I'd like insight in any form it may come in. I'm also going to beg for forgiveness, since I've not actually asked a question, but this forum is full of smart folk and I trust you guys will toss out your reflections on the subject. :)

[LovingRadiance]

Um...

NOT being snarky-but can you define what YOU mean by secondary?
I've noticed that there are some different interpretations.

I may have an answer for you-but want to be sure I'm on par with what you are trying to say first! :)

[DrunkenPorcupine]

I'm not actually sure how I personally define it.

I share everything with my wife except for sex. She's my best friend, my emotional companion, someone who shares my life goals. We're financially bonded, and this seems especially relevant to this question given it's nature.

I LIVE with my wife, I don't like with anybody else.

I suppose that loose defintion is what I mean by "primary". I don't have fuck buddies. I love everyone that I love "the same". My love for one doesn't come before my love for the other, but I share certain aspects with one, my wife and "primary" more than I do with others.

Does that make sense?

[LovingRadiance]

It does make sense.

So here is my story (very short version-but you can find more by looking through my first posts).


I am married (10 years).
I have a boyfriend who also lives with us. I've been friends with him for nearly 17 years.

I have a daughter (18 years) and my husband has a son (13 years) who we raise together, whose other parents are primarily uninvolved in the children's lives.
My husband and I also have a son (9 years) and we are raising our daughter (2 1/2 years). The daughter is biologically the child of myself and boyfriend. BUT we had her by way of artificial insemination prior to him being my boyfriend.

ALL of the kids, extended family etc know the details of biology for our children, but ALL the children know Maca and I as mom and dad. They all call my bf by his given name.

So.....
by some accounts bf would be a secondary.


We've lived together as a family unit for years, my sister who also lives with us as well.
We function as a family of 4 adults, but there are MANY details that are primarily shared by Maca and I (ownership of property/parenting legal rights for all children etc).

So in many ways my sister and BF are secondary, and yet ESPECIALLY for the kids sake-they function as additional primaries when it comes to raising kids (making rules, upholding rules, helping with rides, homework, scheduling etc). Both are listed as emergency contacts for ALL the kids on ALL paperwork and all four of us are capable of caring for any and all of the kids at any time and the kids are confident and comfortable with that...

So I guess-from that point, maybe a more specific question would give me an idea of what you are looking for informationally??;)

[DrunkenPorcupine]

So I guess-from that point, maybe a more specific question would give me an idea of what you are looking for informationally?

One think you didn't mention is kind of at the root of my question, though I suppose I didn't mention it. As it stands NOW, I consider my primary (my wife) and she considers her primary (her BF) to be childfree. I have to admit, I'm a little buzzed right now and I don't feel like doing math, but it seems like your kids came bundled with you; you met BF and you already had kids that he was okay stepping into. I'm asking about the partners who factored in BEFORE kids entered the equation, especially if those were "primary" partners.

Also, I'm being somewhat vague. This is an anonymous internet forum and if I had something to ask I wouldn't pussyfoot around it. The situation I'm in (me and my wife) is different than that of my friend and her BF. The similarities are that we both (couples) identified with childfree until we began exploring poly. Now, she and I (not together) are doing though exercises on how children with people we do NOT consider our primaries would affect... everything. So if I'm intentionally vague, it's because I'm trying to ask for advice or input that I can relate to my situation and relay to her without limiting it to one or the other.

[LovingRadiance]

Child-yes I had my daughter when I was 16. So when GG came into my life she was about 18 months old.

Maca had a child from a previous marriage before we got together-at that time my daughter was 6 and his son was 2.

Interestingly-I never wanted children. (I know-how on earth does one go from not wanting any to having 4 all spaced so far apart AND only the first being an "accident")

You are being vague.. it's hard to follow what you really want to know.


Maybe you are asking-what if your primary isn't the parent becuase they don't want to be a parent?

I'm not sure.

GG just got a vasectomy Tuesday-and there are no children in the world who know him as daddy-there never will be... So in a major way-he does identify as "childless". But he accepts that I have children-and he's been in love with me since he was 17 years old... As he's 33 now.. I don't see it likely that he will change that in this lifetime.

I guess the real question I would pose is do YOU want children, or are you only considering that someone you date might want children and you would possibly be WILLING to father a child.

I got already that the other lady is wondering if she WANTS children as her biological clock is ticking. But hasn't ever wanted them before and it would depend on being with someone else as her primary doesn't...


So for ME-I do NOT want any more children. That is one major reason that GG got fixed-because he respects how very much I do NOT want more children-PERIOD. Since he doesn't feel a NEED for children-he was comfortable ensuring that I don't have that risk-by giving up his ability.

BUT-if he WANTED children... then we'd have negotiating to do. At that point it really depends on personality. Some people are GREAT at being "auntie" in any given situation. But I am not one of those people. If the men I love have a child-that child is going to be mine by default (as far as responsibility goes). It matters not if it were theirs with another woman (like my stepson) the reality is if I love someone and they have a child-in MY mind/heart/soul whatever, that child is my responsibility by default.

Not all people feel that way. If it were possible for them to take a less responsible role and be comfortable-that would be one compromise.

For me-if GG told me he WANTED a child-I wouldn't carry it for him. Because I seriously believe carrying another child would physically kill me for medical reasons.
BUT I WOULD compromise my lack of desire to raise another child-and allow for him to have a child with another woman-and take on that responsibility for loving and carrying for their child as I would my own-no matter what. Because I love HIM that much.

(I only use him as the example, because I already know Maca doesn't want anymore anyway)

So I guess the bottom line to me is-that if you REALLY love someone, you accept that their needs/desires change over time. So if they decided that they needed/wanted to have a child, you love them as a parent, instead of as someone who isn't a parent, because loving someone isn't temporary....

But again-that's just me...

[NeonKaos]

I'll just answer this because my feelings on this topic are strong and differ substantially from what LR has said.

I do not want kids of my own, and if i were to become involved with someone who already has them, of course I'd hang out with the kids sometimes. However, I do not want to be in a parental / caretaker role in any way shape or form. If I were to become involved with someone who subsequently decided to procreate, not only would it sure as hell not be with me, but i expect that the birth of the new child would impose some distance between myself and my hypothetical paramour, if for no other reason than the "baby NRE", hectic schedule, and lifestyle adjustment(s) that come with it.


But, if my husband suddenly wanted to go have a baby with someone else, it would definitely affect our relationship. When you bring an innocent human being into the world, that new person should become the parents' top priority to the exclusion of all else, and I'm not prepared to make that particular sacrifice in my "primary" relationship. I say "primary" because first of all, we don't have anyone else at the moment, and even if we did, Steve and I have been together for 10 years and have a history, so it would take some time before another person would attain the history and experience in order to be another "primary". Therefore, anyone either of us would have as a boyfriend or girlfriend would be "secondary" by default. I don't mean this in an emotional way, but in a pragmatic way, and for lack of "better" terminology.


If your wife is as CF as I have been led to believe she is from our earlier PM's, I would suggest that you discuss this with her because I wouldn't want to assume anything.

[MonoVCPHG]

I say "primary" because first of all, we don't have anyone else at the moment, and even if we did, Steve and I have been together for 10 years and have a history, so it would take some time before another person would attain the history and experience in order to be another "primary". Therefore, anyone either of us would have as a boyfriend or girlfriend would be "secondary" by default. I don't mean this in an emotional way, but in a pragmatic way, and for lack of "better" terminology.


.

Great statement YGirl!

[redpepper]

I agree entirely with ygirl that children are the priority always. At least they should be. This means thinking VERY hard about having any. They completely change everything and their is never again room for selfishness. I struggle with this sometimes as I need my alone time and space... sometimes that is not an option. There is no whining and complaining about it when it comes to a child. Parents quickly learn that if their child is not happy, entertained, learning, becoming independent, doing their thing that the parents life becomes a nightmare... kids first means that parents life can be satisfied second. Not only should it be like that but it works better like that. Add another parent to that and there becomes more people to make sure this happens. However its important to make sure the balance between parents doesn't go off. There is fine art to making sure that each parent gets their time away to do their own thing. Not to mention time together as adults... I sometimes forget what that is like with my husband. We kind of become awkward with one another if we are out of our home without our boy sometimes.

I would be very careful about children with anyone. It's a friggin lot of work and a huge commitment. Not to mention incredibly rewarding and satisfying. There is really nothing bigger than the love one has for their child. It far out does any other love I have in my life. My boy is at the top of all my love. To bring a child into the world means that anyone you love would become secondary to them.... it's not a "we" thing at all in terms of "we made this child" it is very much a "I" made this child and I am responsible for him/her. It is entirely a romantic notion to think in terms of "we" are making a child. Sure when they are babies it's that way, but as they get older one forgets the "we" in my opinion. My boy is my child and I share the responsibility to raise him. That responsibility can make or break loving relationships between parents or caregivers.

I have always thought it unnecessary to birth children. Sure it's easier to get pregnant for a lot of people but really you can chose to have kids in your life and make them a priority. There is no need to birth them. I got pregnant because it was easier for me that was a conscious decision.

I was Auntie to a boy for many years who's mum was a single mum. My wife at the time and I looked after him often and included him in our lives. They moved away in the end and we lost touch. We were reacquainted again this year and it turns out we had a huge impact on his life. He is 17 (he moved away at age 5) and about to have his own babies (ahhhhh!!!!:eek:too young!!!) but he remembers he did stuff with us that his mum couldn't pull off, such as going to the pool, tenting in our living room in the winter, eating his first pomegranate. He thinks fondly of us and we influenced his life positively at a time when he needed that. Anyone can do that! and more, people should! There are so many kids in the world already that don't have that, I really think that we should be taking care of them first. They need us.... and I don't have any problem saying "need" here. Kids "need" responsible, caring, loving, positive, adults.

Perhaps instead of thinking about biological clocks ticking this friend of yours could involve herself some how in a child's life whether it be a partners or in another way... I suspect that she will be just as fulfilled if not more so because it's possible to leave and go home at the end of it...:p;) If she isn't fulfilled, then ya, having her own is a good option provided the situation (for the long haul) and time is right.

[LovingRadiance]

When you bring an innocent human being into the world, that new person should become the parents' top priority to the exclusion of all else, and I'm not prepared to make that particular sacrifice in my "primary" relationship.

Ygirl-this is how I feel as well-but the truth is-even if you and I agree on this-SO many people in the world don't. (I know I know-don't ask me why :) )
That was why I said that part in my post about some people can handle a partner having a child with another and still keep themselves comfortably "spaced" from the child. I certainly couldn't. I wouldn't have your reaction-but I COMPLETELY grasp your point!

I say "primary" because first of all, we don't have anyone else at the moment, and even if we did, Steve and I have been together for 10 years and have a history, so it would take some time before another person would attain the history and experience in order to be another "primary". Therefore, anyone either of us would have as a boyfriend or girlfriend would be "secondary" by default. I don't mean this in an emotional way, but in a pragmatic way, and for lack of "better" terminology.

I'm glad to know I'm not hte only one who struggles with this particular terminology coming up lacking! ;)

If your wife is as CF as I have been led to believe she is from our earlier PM's, I would suggest that you discuss this with her because I wouldn't want to assume anything.

My only disagreement here is that I don't think it matters HOW CF she is-he still needs to discuss this with her AT LENGTH. But yes, your point here is certainly valid.
I was only expressing my situation, but as I said-not everyone is like me. I definately don't want any more kids. But I can't throw away a 17 year relationship over it if he did. EVEN if he decided in the future that he did-and had a reversal or whatever, as I said-won't be me carrying it-but I would love it and care for it, because it's my nature to love and care for that which those I love myself, love and care for.

ANYWAY! Good that the OP can get a number of opposing views-help make more educated decisions!

[Ceoli]

I would be very careful about children with anyone. It's a friggin lot of work and a huge commitment. Not to mention incredibly rewarding and satisfying. There is really nothing bigger than the love one has for their child. It far out does any other love I have in my life. My boy is at the top of all my love. To bring a child into the world means that anyone you love would become secondary to them.... it's not a "we" thing at all in terms of "we made this child" it is very much a "I" made this child and I am responsible for him/her. It is entirely a romantic notion to think in terms of "we" are making a child. Sure when they are babies it's that way, but as they get older one forgets the "we" in my opinion. My boy is my child and I share the responsibility to raise him. That responsibility can make or break loving relationships between parents or caregivers.

This is exactly why I won't have a child until relationships and home have settled into something stable enough to be able to support that responsibility. I do know that I don't want to be single raising a child. I also know that I would like to find a partner to raise a child with. We'll just have to see how that shakes down in the end. I do feel that clock ticking, but have always been open to adopting for many reasons.

[NeonKaos]

My only disagreement here is that I don't think it matters HOW CF she is-he still needs to discuss this with her AT LENGTH.

You are correct. I conveyed two concepts as though they were inter-dependent and of course they are not.

[LovingRadiance]

Parents quickly learn that if their child is not happy, entertained, learning, becoming independent, doing their thing that the parents life becomes a nightmare... kids first means that parents life can be satisfied second. Not only should it be like that but it works better like that.

OMG could we make it a RULE that all parents learn this???? :eek:

I would be very careful about children with anyone.
If only more people were! It should require a license like driving does--bad parenting is much more dangerous than a bad driver.

To bring a child into the world means that anyone you love would become secondary to them.... it's not a "we" thing at all in terms of "we made this child" it is very much a "I" made this child and I am responsible for him/her. It is entirely a romantic notion to think in terms of "we" are making a child. Sure when they are babies it's that way, but as they get older one forgets the "we" in my opinion. My boy is my child and I share the responsibility to raise him. That responsibility can make or break loving relationships between parents or caregivers.

This is true. I guess for me I just know myself ell enough. When I met Maca, I DID NOT want more children, but he had a son. In hte first days of us becoming friends again (not even dating) his son got pnemonia, I happened to work a schedule that allowed me to watch him while Maca was at work, so I did. Not because I "wanted" to or becuase I loved Maca or because I was trying to "win him" or because of any desire to have a relationship with him. It was because it was simply the right thing to do, no parent should have to choose between working to feed their child or being sure their child is cared for and safe. So I watched him. So for me-it's not just someone I'm dating, it's anyone I have in my life who has a child.

Just today a child I barely know fell out of bed in our basement, her mother is a long time friend of Maca's, but I only just met them both. My auto-pilot instinct was to run, I had her in my arms before anyone else could even react. Because it was just the RIGHT thing to do (for me).

Some people are like this-some are not. It's very important to not only know what kind of person YOU are, but also your lovers. I've had significant others who weren't like that, but they weren't primary caregivers for my child. I now have lovers who are like me, and can be primary caregivers for my children, because it simplifies all of the relationships.

I have always thought it unnecessary to birth children. Sure it's easier to get pregnant for a lot of people but really you can chose to have kids in your life and make them a priority. There is no need to birth them. I got pregnant because it was easier for me that was a conscious decision.

My sister is an example-she has borne no children. She's 34 years old and probably never will. But she tells people she has 4 kids (mine) because she loves them and cares for them as her own. They know her as Auntie, or "Mimi" but she cares for them just as a mother.

I was Auntie to a boy for many years who's mum was a single mum. My wife at the time and I looked after him often and included him in our lives. They moved away in the end and we lost touch. We were reacquainted again this year and it turns out we had a huge impact on his life. He is 17 (he moved away at age 5) and about to have his own babies (ahhhhh!!!!:eek:too young!!!) but he remembers he did stuff with us that his mum couldn't pull off, such as going to the pool, tenting in our living room in the winter, eating his first pomegranate. He thinks fondly of us and we influenced his life positively at a time when he needed that. Anyone can do that! and more, people should! There are so many kids in the world already that don't have that, I really think that we should be taking care of them first. They need us.... and I don't have any problem saying "need" here. Kids "need" responsible, caring, loving, positive, adults.
(bolding by me)

I completely concur. My daughter (18 years and thank god no babies on the way) retains fond, close, loving relationships with my highschool boyfriend who cared for her, as well as MANY of my close friends from highschool. Some of whom I am friends with, but most we grew out of each others lives, but they didn't walk out on HER. It's been amazing watching how secure she is in her life, in her self, in her relationships, because even though her father walked out on her-all of these other men and women stuck by her and showed her it was HIM not her that was lacking.

If more people would put forth the effort to be an auntie or uncle to a child, less children would repeat the mistakes based on insecurity borne of one parent or another failing them!

But...
And this is a huge but, you have to be the kind of person who can do that and not be self-centered. Because even if the child isn't yours, caring for a child even for short bits of times, requires selflessness. Those little buggers require a lot even if they are independent and self-motivated, well behaved and well adjusted!


Perhaps instead of thinking about biological clocks ticking this friend of yours could involve herself some how in a child's life whether it be a partners or in another way... I suspect that she will be just as fulfilled if not more so because it's possible to leave and go home at the end of it...:p;) If she isn't fulfilled, then ya, having her own is a good option provided the situation (for the long haul) and time is right.

Not only that-but taking time to be there when they do go home, gives you a chance to increase your time with them incrementally-and sort of "test the waters".
When i had my daughter a lot of the girls in school with me went through the "ohhhh I want a baby" b.s. I let my daughter spend the night with them (not all of them, just the ones who were more responsible) or invited them to spend the night with me. That way they got to wake up every few hours to deal with wet diapers, bottles, missing pacifiers and then get up and go to school in the morning.
Interestingly-not ONE of them had a baby before age 30. That "testing" time can be INVALUABLE!


OP, it wasn't my impression either of you were talking about "jumping in" to the parental waters. I commend you both for talking to people, taking the opportunity to really consider if this is a viable option (for either of you as you did note you aren't considering it together). It's a HUGE life decision and more people who think that they DO want kids without the extra complication of that being a new concept in a life designed without them, should make that much effort!!!!
(bolded and colored in case you get tired of reading my rambles and want to skip to something specific to you!!)

[LovingRadiance]

This is exactly why I won't have a child until relationships and home have settled into something stable enough to be able to support that responsibility. I do know that I don't want to be single raising a child. I also know that I would like to find a partner to raise a child with. We'll just have to see how that shakes down in the end. I do feel that clock ticking, but have always been open to adopting for many reasons.

You know Ceoli-sometimes I think that people who chose to adopt from the onset are SO much smarter than those of us who went through labor and delivery!!
Having bio children, Godchildren (who I have raised-not that just lived somewhere else) and stepchildren, once I "fell in love" with them, they were my children, didn't matter whose body they bounced out of.
I used to wish I waited, now I count my blessings and tell the kids to wait for that stable content home where the child can be secure without EXTRA effort on one or more parents part!
GREAT choice on your part (opposed to good choice)!

[LovingRadiance]

You are correct. I conveyed two concepts as though they were inter-dependent and of course they are not.

I was sure that you were conveying two concepts Ygirl-way too intelligent posting all together for it to be otherwise. I just figured it wouldn't hurt to clarify.

I think it's cool that we can all share differing thoughts/opinions/feelings across such a large spectrum and come at it from the same basic premises.

It's awesome to me that people can want a child or NOT want a child, (not to be confused with not want a child) and WANT a child, and can still ALL agree on the basic premises of how it should/should not be done.

;)

[redpepper]

You know Ceoli-sometimes I think that people who chose to adopt from the onset are SO much smarter than those of us who went through labor and delivery!!
Having bio children, Godchildren (who I have raised-not that just lived somewhere else) and stepchildren, once I "fell in love" with them, they were my children, didn't matter whose body they bounced out of.
I used to wish I waited, now I count my blessings and tell the kids to wait for that stable content home where the child can be secure without EXTRA effort on one or more parents part!
GREAT choice on your part (opposed to good choice)!

I really think that while I thought making our own baby was easier.. it really wasn't. That labour and delivery thing and being pregnant I could of done without easily.

If I did it all again I would parent a child that was unable to be parented by it's bio parents... to me this is far more noble and more responsible to the world as a whole.

I guess another reason I had a bio child was because I knew it would be accepted more by my family... both sets of grandparents had issues and still do about adoption. In that respect it was easier to have our own too. No argument or life long struggles for the extended family to be able to bond.

[NeonKaos]

It's awesome to me that people can want a child or NOT want a child, (not to be confused with not want a child) and WANT a child, and can still ALL agree on the basic premises of how it should/should not be done.

;)

For the record, if someone else's kid was staying with me and it fell out of bed, I'd rush over to it and comfort it, too, because it's "the right thing to do" even if it's "not my cup of tea". (And sorry about calling a hypothetical kid "it", but that is easier than writing "he or she" over and over. If "it" was a specific kid, then I'd use their name or the personal pronoun.)

[LovingRadiance]

I really think that while I thought making our own baby was easier.. it really wasn't. That labour and delivery thing and being pregnant I could of done without easily.

If I did it all again I would parent a child that was unable to be parented by it's bio parents... to me this is far more noble and more responsible to the world as a whole.

I guess another reason I had a bio child was because I knew it would be accepted more by my family... both sets of grandparents had issues and still do about adoption. In that respect it was easier to have our own too. No argument or life long struggles for the extended family to be able to bond.

RP I think it's pertinent to note-how much you must have grown from that moment of decision-to now. Because now your decisions are so much more based on your own desires and needs and not so much on your extended families desires (based on what I've learned about you reading on here!).
That's awesome.

[LovingRadiance]

For the record, if someone else's kid was staying with me and it fell out of bed, I'd rush over to it and comfort it, too, because it's "the right thing to do" even if it's "not my cup of tea". (And sorry about calling a hypothetical kid "it", but that is easier than writing "he or she" over and over. If "it" was a specific kid, then I'd use their name or the personal pronoun.)

I get that. I hope you didn't think I was suggesting YOU weren't that kind of person! :eek:

I was just saying SOME people aren't like that. You know?

I watch it ALL of the time. People watch a child getting hurt, or screaming in terror lost or whatever and they just "mind their own business". I can't do it.
I also can't withhold my heart from a child, they need love, and instinctually-even when I don't want to, I give it.

In point of fact-I've started limiting myself from having ANY new friends with small children-because of this truth about myself... (sorry, off topic)

[NeonKaos]

I get that. I hope you didn't think I was suggesting YOU weren't that kind of person! :eek:

I didn't think you were suggesting that. However, sometimes folks who make a conscious decision to not become parents are perceived as lacking in empathy and/or compassion.

I would venture that there are also plenty of people who HAVE reproduced that are lacking in those two areas, and often in other areas as well.

[LovingRadiance]

I didn't think you were suggesting that. However, sometimes folks who make a conscious decision to not become parents are perceived as lacking in empathy and/or compassion.

I would venture that there are also plenty of people who HAVE reproduced that are lacking in those two areas, and often in other areas as well.

I won't even venture-I will say emphatically that I have personally MET too many people who have reproduced that are SIGNIFICANTLY lacking in those two areas as well as other pertinent ones! :)

[crisare]

It's funny .. I sort of skimmed this topic because I don't have kids, but then I realized that I do have some thoughts because my last b/f had children and it's possible that a future b/f might have children ... so it's relevant to my interests as the interwebz say.

I do not want kids of my own, and if i were to become involved with someone who already has them, of course I'd hang out with the kids sometimes. However, I do not want to be in a parental / caretaker role in any way shape or form. If I were to become involved with someone who subsequently decided to procreate, not only would it sure as hell not be with me, but i expect that the birth of the new child would impose some distance between myself and my hypothetical paramour, if for no other reason than the "baby NRE", hectic schedule, and lifestyle adjustment(s) that come with it.Yup. I couldn't have written it better.

My last b/f had 3 children. I was known to them as a friend of the family and they referred to me as "Miss Firstname" (a respectful method of addressing an adult family friend here in the South). I have babysat them before, I have been part of their family events, but I was not listed as a caretaker for them in official records, I wasn't listed as a contact in case of emergencies, etc. If anything had happened to my b/f and his wife, her family would have had care of the children, not me.

I don't dislike children, but I won't have any (at one point I wanted children badly, but that has passed, the opportunity is over, and at this point I am childfree by choice).

But, if my husband suddenly wanted to go have a baby with someone else, it would definitely affect our relationship. When you bring an innocent human being into the world, that new person should become the parents' top priority to the exclusion of all else, and I'm not prepared to make that particular sacrifice in my "primary" relationship.I agree with this as well, although I think it's highly unlikely that my H would want children now - with anyone.

I say "primary" because first of all, we don't have anyone else at the moment, and even if we did, Steve and I have been together for 10 years and have a history, so it would take some time before another person would attain the history and experience in order to be another "primary". Therefore, anyone either of us would have as a boyfriend or girlfriend would be "secondary" by default. I don't mean this in an emotional way, but in a pragmatic way, and for lack of "better" terminology.And just for clarification, this is also how I view my primary/secondary relationships. :)

[sweetie]

My partners and I had an interesting discussion about children today. Our children range from ages 21-29, six children in total. All but one of our children are aware and accepting of our poly relationship. In all honesty it is our youngest, and my son who doesn't know about our relationship. The reason he doesn't know about our relationship, is frankly, he is too damn much like me.

He has the best of my ex-husband and the worst of me. From his dad he has charm, laughter, and an easy going manner. From me he has a dark side. That side that says I need my space, need to be alone to deal with things in my own way, and you're invading my personal space. In all honesty I have been afraid to tell him of our relationship. As it stands now, he cares for my partners and sees them as good people. I'm afraid if he knows what our real relationship is he will not want to know about their lives, or want to be a part of mine. I know it sounds cowardly, but I really don't know how to broach the subject with him, or if I really feel the need to do so. Sometimes it's simply a case of if it's not broken don't fix it.

My daughter is the complete opposite. She has gotten the best of both my ex-husband and myself. She has the same charm, easy going manner, and laughter that my son has from his dad. She also has tolerance, acceptance, and a questioning nature from me. It was so much easier to tell her of our relationship. I knew she might have questions but would never judge. She loves her other parents, because for her they truly are her other parents.

I oftentimes think I should tell him and live with the consequences. Of course on the other hand what if the consequences are something I'm not prepared to deal with? Should I leave it alone? Or gird my loines and have a frank conversation?

Any suggestions or comments would be welcome.

[glowinthedarkstars]

Im not a mom so i dont have too much experience but im 20 so I might be able to help. ask yourself these questions

D I think its important to tell him because I want to be honest and I feel that if I dont tell him I am essentially lying?

Do I think he aught to know just because the whole family is aware of it?

Is it possible he knows but never brings it up? This seems pretty typical of 1) a 21 year old guy. Another likely situation is that he doesnt know, and doesnt care to know because hes dealing with his own life :p

Maybe you can bring it up casually somehow. I am not sure.

[GroundedSpirit]

I
Is it possible he knows but never brings it up? This seems pretty typical of 1) a 21 year old guy. Another likely situation is that he doesnt know, and doesnt care to know because hes dealing with his own life :p


Thanks Glow for weighing in on this.
I suspect this is a topic that a lot of polys either are struggling with - or will be at some time. We in fact have almost the identical situation with our own youngest. Our older kids 'know' but don't discuss it.

There's been some big debate going on in the General thread about marginalization of younger people and I think this is a perfect example of where input from both sides of the equation would be welcome & valued.

If you have children who are approaching the age of discussion about lifestyles, sexuality etc, how difficult is this going to be and do you have any plans for how you are going to approach it ?

On the other hand........

If you are in the... say........14-25 age group, how would you deal with the discovery that your parents have been involved in a poly lifestyle ? How would it affect your view, respect etc of them ? How would it impact your own thinking of your own future relationship possibilities ?
Would you even WANT to know ?

I'd love to see this thread take off.............

GS

[CielDuMatin]

I agree, GS, this topic is a really good one. I know of one poly family with kids that are "in the know" - two of them are already members here, so I hope they will weigh in with their own experiences.

Maybe a mod could move this to the General Discussion board where it might be more visible, since this really is a relevant topic to poly....

[Rarechild]

Good suggestion, Ciel.

[GroundedSpirit]

Good suggestion, Ciel.

Rarechild,

Do you customarily notify an OP when you move a thread via PM or some other method ?
Just asking in case a poster was new and not well skilled yet in navigating forums and tracking down things. They might go back looking for their post and think it deleted or lost. Be a shame.

Thanks,

GS

[LovingRadiance]

We have 4 children. 18, 13,10 (in a couple days) and 2.5 years respectively.
Three of them live with us-the 13 year old does not. He's "in care" for psychological issues. The three who live with us know (obviously the 2 year old doesnt know all the terms, the other two do).
Prior to coming out "poly" all 4 kids were very well acquainted with GG as he's been in my life since the oldest was 18 months old. They've grown up with him as a close family member (the older 3 often referred to him as uncle).
When we came out-it was just a relief to the oldest. She had grown up seeing GG and I around one another. At 18 she was old enough to understand love, and she knows the "signs" when she see's them. So seeing us look at one another-even if no words were spoken and we didn't touch-was enough for her to know we loved each other deeply. It was easier when it was all "up and up" with Maca (her stepdad, but she claims him as just dad) because she didn't have to wonder if she was doing something wrong by not saying something even though she SAW the emotions. (Maca knew-it just wasn't talked about openly before).

The 10 yr old was struggling with "honesty" versus "lying" shortly after we decided on poly. He went to tears telling me he didn't "lie" to daddy-but he didn't talk to him because he was scared daddy wouldn't love him anymore if he told him (some stuff about needing more time with him-nothing significant in the BIG scheme, but to him it was HORRIBLY significant). I used that opportunity to tell him about how I had to tell daddy I was poly (which required explaining poly/mono).
His reaction was "well if polyamory means loving more than one person and monogomous means you only love one person then it's stupid for people to have a problem with polyamory because God said we are supposed to love everyone equally." (he's the conservative "bible thumper" in the family) He proceeded to recite a verse from the Bible to me about Loving others as Christ loved the church blah blah and explaining what he feels that means etc.
Suffice it to say-he has no issue.
In fact the other night we were playing Balderdash. One of the words was something including "poly" and "pic" in it (don't recall the exact word) he wrote the definition as "taking a picture of a polyamorous family on a car trip".
Yes he spelled polyamorous correctly on his paper.
We were stunned. He pays attention AND he's totally cool with it.

The baby knows that mommy and daddy go to bed together, and that mommy is in GG's bed when she wakes up in the morning-and she comes to get me there.
They see me kiss GG and daddy hello when they get home from work, goodbye when they leave. They see me curl up and snuggle with either of them and they are AWARE (though obviously not welcome to SEE) that I take a bath with daddy to talk most evenings and a shower with daddy before bed, as well as taking a shower with GG a few times a week.

So-for me as an adult-I think it's better all around for the kids to know (the 13 year old will know when he's psychologically stable enough to be home again).

BUT-as a 14-current age daughter-I don't give a HOOT what my parents do with their sex lives and I'm not interested in hearing about it.
I know that they are each married and love their spouses. I know my stepmother tends to a poly nature.. but if they have lovers, no idea.
No one lives with them, but if someone did-I wouldn't care.

My little sister is 16. I'm teaching her health right now, I picked up the book suggested on another thread from the scarleteen website for her. She is DEAD SET on NOT knowing ANYTHING about her parents sex life. She will talk to me about relationships and sex IN GENERAL, but specific examples of types of relationships people in her family have-grosses her out.
She did not freak out yesterday though when GG kissed me full on the mouth before work-she was sitting next to me on the couch and she's comfortable hanging out with GG and Maca and I.


To the OP-I think you might consider the post about maybe he is too busy to care. Don't try to "hide" from him, maybe just don't shove it down his throat either?

If he ASKED I would certainly not lie. That would be damaging to YOUR relationship with him. But if it's just about him knowing-let him know by life experience maybe. If he see's you with one of the others doing something that could be questioned-just look him in the eye and tell him, " all (four?) of you are aware of the dynamics and happy with them, but if he has questions you don't mind elaborating, just don't want to fill his ears with info he doesn't want about you." or something along those lines...

GS-so what do you think-would it be fostering marginalization of youth in general (not poly specifically) to blatantly hide the truth of our lifestyle from them?
I don't have an opinion on it yet... just a question that popped into my head.

[GroundedSpirit]

GS-so what do you think-would it be fostering marginalization of youth in general (not poly specifically) to blatantly hide the truth of our lifestyle from them?
I don't have an opinion on it yet... just a question that popped into my head.

LR,
I don't want to see this thread diverge so will (if even possible) comment either on the Marginal thread or PM.

[LovingRadiance]

Oh, please Pm. :)
Thanks!!
:)

(SORRY OP!!)

Please give us more thoughts on your situation!! I'd love to hear about it.

[constlady]

I have 3 grown children (21-28) and custody of 4 grandchildren (3-11) and all know, to the extent of their understanding, how mom/gramma loves.

I am blessed because all of the kids adore R and rosevett and the rest of the extended family.

My kids were a bit hesitant at first and I found out later it was because R wears a ring and they thought he was cheating.
Once that was cleared up, they have been very matter of fact about the whole situation.
My youngest daughter describes it like this: My mom's boyfriend has another girlfriend who has another boyfriend and they all hang out together :)

The younger kids know everyone as family; the oldest granddaughter caught on very quickly the first time we went to R & rosevett's house for a visit.
I simply said that I know some people think that you should only have one boyfriend or girlfriend at a time but that we didn't feel that way.
We love each other and are happy with the way things are.
She has been fine with it ever since.

I am who I am and I can't imagine trying to hide any part of that from my kids.

They know I'm bi, they know I'm poly and they know I love them fiercely.
They also know they can talk to me about anything and I know that works both ways for us.

[MonoVCPHG]

This incident was brought to me by a friend. It's definitely worrisome and hopefully there will be some words of support and wisdom to help alleviate their concerns. I'm posting to add a layer of protection for them.

Here it is:


I've just had the nasty experience of being told that polyamoury is "not conducive to a healthy environment for children to grow up in"
Guess who said this, my therapist who just so happens to be a social worker who also works for... child protection services.
I have only recently began seeing her, and after today will stop but long story short after hearing about polyamoury...she threatened to call child protection services on my ex.
she has no grounds for taking the kids away, but just the thought of the stress from a "visit" and an "investigation" has my heart pounding.
they couple in question have rules in place. they do not bring their dates home for one thing. two, i lived with them and i had no shows of real physical intimacy (beyond a hug) with my boyfriend in their house, so not even with the kids there. three the idea of a blended family was always with the understanding that it would be done when they were grown up or at least almost out of the house. and four, if they possibility arose to introduce the kids/tell kids about poly well then a councilor would become involved.
these all sound reasonable. and put the kids first... but this social worker thinks otherwise..she says the parents are "burdening" their children with polyamoury
and that is wrong.
so i ask this....is it wrong? for the sake of the children are we forced to keep our polyamourous selves closet form our own children? does polyamoury foster an environment which is not healthy? has anybody else encountered these issues?
fyi: i am looking for a new therapist. they aren't supposed to have boast opinions which force me to draw their conclusions. i am supposed to be able to craw my own conclusions as long as they are not harmful to me or my kids... i mean, 20 years ago it was not "healthy" to have a homosexual couple raising children so where does this idiot get off telling me this?

[Quath]

I think it is easy for people to people to show off their prejudice for something different from they are use to. I have never seen anything to show that polyamory hurts the children. But truthfully, there is very little research at all. But that does not stop a social worker from assuming that it must.

My guess is that kids are not harmed unless they constantly are losing adult figured in their life. I think they may get a bigger benefit if more adults watch over them and care for them. Plus I think it is neutral for the parents that hide it from the kids.

I agree with avoiding the therapist. It sounds like they are being too judgemental without evidence. You don't need that in your life.

[Mohegan]

I cannot even begin to tell you how angry that makes me. I have worked with children most of my life and have several certifications in child development, child protection, noticing abuse/neglect, etc. If the children are in a healthy environment, meaning their emotional and physical needs are being met. They are loved and cared for. Allowed to express feelings and ask questions. There is NOTHING wrong with them being around a poly relationship. And it sounds to me like the family takes a lot of steps to keep the kids from any emotional trama. In my opinion, depending on the emotional maturity of the child, they should be introduced to the poly lifestyle as early as possible. It may be even more tramatic to introduce them to it in adulthood. I could go on and on about this. But it boils down to the fact that there is nothing unhealthy about love. And showing a child how amazing it is to be able to love more than one person, and allowing a child to have a family that provides so much love for them to grow in, is truly good parenting. If the day ever comes that DH and I have children, our partners will be in their lives. We won't hide it from them at all. We wouldn't hide eachother from them right? Sounds silly but it's the same thing in my eyes. Granted we will need to be in a long term healthy relationship with this person before they come into my kids lives. I do not intend for my home to be a revolving door of people my kids will never see again. But I won't hide my lifestyle any more than I would hide my husband from them.


Sorry, I'll step off my soap box now. The well being of children and the fact that closed minds get in the way of actual health and well being, really gets to me.

[Honestheart]

I agree with Mohegan, this pisses me off too but also...confuses me. where do people get off being so...judgemental....?

[redpepper]

I hope you take some time to read some of the really good threads on here about which you speak. There are quite a few of us that raise kids on here now and there have been many in the past with similar questions.

I suggest a search for tags.... children, kids, etc. anything you can think of.

As for my personal opinion? I completely understand something of what you might be feeling. When I came out to my family last fall my mother went to our family doctor and told him that she thought Mono was abusing our child. We were terrified that she would find a way to have our boy removed from our house. I was very distraught that we had to put him through a medical test to see if he was okay, knowing full well that he was. The doctor found nothing and my mum didn't have a leg to stand on with him... this generally doesn't stop her and we continued to worry that she would call child protective services.

It never happened as we told her that she would not be able to see her grand child again if she did that.

My experience has indicated that our boy is benefiting greatly from Mono being in our lives. He has a "best buddy" now and is very proud of that fact with his friends. The other day his BFF came over and we all took the boys for lunch, we were crossing a busy road and the newly 7 year olds still were too distractable to pay attention to traffic. My boy held his dad's hand and he turned to his friend and said, you can hold my "best buddies" hand with voice full of pride. He was so proud that Mono rode his motor bike beside the car so that they could watch him outside the window too.

yup, he is not suffering in the least. My boy knows that I love his dad as much as I love Mono and that he can love as many people as he wants too. We tell him that there is no cap on having love in your heart for others and that you can make family with whomever you chose. He understands that, believes that and it has nothing to do with our sex lives. It has everything to do with love and family.

I feel for you, I really do. It is so sad that this kind of attitude prevails. It does everywhere because of the way we have been conditioned. I hope you are able to move on and find forgiveness. Even better, I hope you are able to educate this therapist and in doing so feel more confident about the choices you make.... at the same time, I would not see fault in protecting yourself if you feel threatened and walking away.

[GroundedSpirit]

Interesting post.........

The first question I would have is not around what lifestyle a parent(s) was living but what parts of it were appropriate - and especially appropriate for the understanding and phase (age) that the children were in. And the openness and honesty of what is going on.
"Damage" occurs to us when we are young just by living. I feel the biggest threat to the outlook of children comes from seeing dishonesty, lack of integrity etc. When we're young we're trying to understand the rules of the road and in order to do that we have to be able to accept something as being true, accurate. When you are caught in an environment where you are constantly discovering lies, half truths and various deceptions it weakens your confidence and creates the impression that that is the way life needs to be lived.
Add to all this that the kids are living in the "current culture" the same as we all are. And we all know how cruel that culture can be at young ages. The choices we make as parents WILL have impacts for our children if they are public - or even something that the culture we live in can find suspicious if noticed.

So, it seems there aren't any easy, pat answers. Each situation is unique in what will be the best - or worst. But the one thing (ironic) that holds true is the same thing we all talk about all the time about between ourselves.

Honesty, good communication, integrity.

Children can easily grasp love/connection between more than one person ! It's a default part of their lives. Most children have multiple people in their lives they love, and that love them ! They naturally grasp the different levels between parents, uncles, cousins, grandparents etc. It's all the same and yet different - but all generally good.

Only as they reach an age of some sexual awareness and begin to get some inkling of what the broad culture accepts as "normal" does any question arise for them. This is when it seems to start to get a bit sticky.

Kids don't need (and usually prefer not) to know about adults sex lives until it becomes appropriate. And that time varies. But when it comes - the key is the same, honesty (to an appropriate degree) and integrity.

Ooops - interruption - have to run............

Maybe more later............

GS

[TL4everu2]

Ok, I have a question....If you are seeing a therapist, aren't they supposed to keep your converstaions private and not disclosed to anyone unless it's potentially hazardous to your health or the health of someone else? (i.e. you make a threat that you are going to commit suicide or you threaten to kill the mayor or something) If so, then I would, as you are letting her know you are parting ways, let her know you intend to inform the medical board of her transgressions. I mean, you don't want her to be doing something that she's not supposed to be doing right?

Your therapist sounds like she really sucks and is more into working for the gooberment which I HATE. Where would we be without the gooberment to save us from ourselves? The gooberment stole me from my biological mother when I was 3 only to adopt me out to a family which treated me as though I was a prize, and not their child. Anyway, this is about you, not me. So.....Let her know that she really needs to re-read her privacy disclosures and separate her therapy business from her social working job. Then, go to her supervisors and let them know about how she is using her therapy business to disrupt peoples lives with her social work job. Also a report to the medical board (or whoever she got her therapy license from) is in order.

[Ariakas]

Ok, I have a question....If you are seeing a therapist, aren't they supposed to keep your converstaions private and not disclosed to anyone unless it's potentially hazardous to your health or the health of someone else? (i.e. you make a threat that you are going to commit suicide or you threaten to kill the mayor or something) If so, then I would, as you are letting her know you are parting ways, let her know you intend to inform the medical board of her transgressions. I mean, you don't want her to be doing something that she's not supposed to be doing right?


Is a therapist bound by the same rules/laws as psychiatry?

[redpepper]

I agree with you TL4, after a chat about how what she said was inappropriate, if her attitude doesn't change and no apology is forthcoming, I certainly would do the same.

[TL4everu2]

Is a therapist bound by the same rules/laws as psychiatry?Excellent question, and I have no idea. Which is why I asked that same question (or at least very CLOSE to the same) in the first sentence of my reply. ;)

[Ariakas]

damnit...I broke my own rule about not posting pre morning coffee...

my mistake :)

[assets]

In Canada, therapists (and everyone else for that matter) are required by law to report cases of child abuse or endangerment to the MCFD (Ministry for Children and Families). So by the letter of the law, the therapist would be doing nothing wrong by reporting this "child endangerment" but obviously the therapist is forcing her own morality on a situation that she really doesn't know enough about. I think this law sucks in that it allows close minded people the protection of the law in situations like this.

[TL4everu2]

damnit...I broke my own rule about not posting pre morning coffee...

my mistake :)LOL Ditto!;)

[vandalin]

In Canada, therapists (and everyone else for that matter) are required by law to report cases of child abuse or endangerment to the MCFD (Ministry for Children and Families). So by the letter of the law, the therapist would be doing nothing wrong by reporting this "child endangerment" but obviously the therapist is forcing her own morality on a situation that she really doesn't know enough about. I think this law sucks in that it allows close minded people the protection of the law in situations like this.

This is similar in the US as well. Anyone can make a call to the DCFS (Department of Children & Family Services) and they will look into the allegations made by the caller. If they are found to be false, the "accused" has 10? days to request the caller's information in which they can actually sue the caller for making false accusations.

I agree with the previous postings, this therapist is making judgments about a situation she knows little to nothing about...the only problem is she is still just doing her job. *Puts hands up placatingly* Ok, not what people usually want to hear, but this is why it is important to find out about any therapist, counselor, shrink, etc. before seeing them AND to not only give certain information on the first visit but to GET information on that visit. Do not be afraid to ask a bunch of questions of this person who is supposed to get to know you and all of your secrets. Ask them how they feel about alternative relationships, and you can then list a bunch of different types without giving away your own situation. Ask them how they feel about religion and how it plays in their working opinions. If the therapist gives vague answers or in any way makes you uncomfortable with their answers, thank them for their time and find someone else.

To the hidden OP, I really hope that this therapist doesn't go through with her threats, but be prepared if she does. And just remember, if the allegations are found to be false, see if there is any way to file charges for false accusations or not. The purpose would be to get a "refund" for any court costs, etc. if applicable. (Not sure on how the court system works up there, but that's how it would work down here.) I wish you the best of luck and courage.

[LovingRadiance]

Unfortunately it really does depend on the laws where you are living what can and can't be used against you.

I know that where I live all calls to children's services are confidential no matter what. That resulted in years of being investigated over and over again while my husband was fighting for custody of his son.
NOW we know for certain (because of her own admission) that those calls were all from his ex. They were also all b.s.

The irony to this specific scenario is that she was alleging abuse/neglect of her son for a variety of reasons. More than once she brought up GG living in our home and my sister as well.

That particular detail was of NO INTEREST to the children's services investigators. They didn't give a DAMN who was sleeping with who or where. What they cared about was who cared for the children, what were they fed, how were they disciplined etc. They were adamant that unless there was a belief that sex was happening in front of or with the children, they were NOT interested in the sexual activities of the adults in the household.

BUT-that's where WE live. :(
Not everywhere.

[vandalin]

Sounds like you had some decent workers checking out your case. Just like with the therapist, the case workers can put their own beliefs and morals on their decisions, lawful or not. But sometimes you get the one person who actually is more interested in following the rules of the job and not the rules of their own church (etc.). Someone who realizes that not every family is the same but as long as the children or not neglected or abused, then there are no grounds for removal.

[LovingRadiance]

so i ask this....is it wrong?
Is what wrong? It's really dependent upon who you ask, regardless of exactly what you are asking about. Different people have different ideas of right and wrong.

for the sake of the children are we forced to keep our polyamourous selves closet form our own children?
This is a question no one can really answer for you. For me-there is no way I would even try. BUT-I have assessed the risk WHERE I LIVE and concluded that the risk is worth the honesty with my children.
We're moving-and the area we're talking about moving to actually has more current laws AGAINST poly-type relationships. We may have to look a little deeper into moving there because of this.
Without knowing the PRECISE laws where you live, it would be impossible to help you assess the level of risk for you specifically.

does polyamoury foster an environment which is not healthy?
Define healthy? See again-this is something that different people have differeing ideas on. For example-I really feel that the HEALTHIEST eating habits would be vegan/whole/fresh/raw foods. I don't actually eat that way-more and more each year, but not there yet.
BUT-my family would argue (and have) til they are blue that I am just being ridiculous because there is nothing unhealthy about eating meat/dairy/cooked foods.


has anybody else encountered these issues?

Exact issue-no. Similar-yes. Many people have-and I am one.

It sucks-you are welcome to PM me-whoever you are, or you can PM through Mono. I believe that he and/or RP would be happy to tell you whoever you are that I am not one who you need worry about.
The hardest part of being a parent is having to make tough decisions that are "which is more wrong" type decisions.

BIG HUGS to you.

[drgnsyr]

What you have described here is exactly why my boyfriend won't talk to the therapist/social worker at the VA. It's a licensed psychologist or nothing.

I know you're not going back, but I would love to hear how she might have replied to the following questions:

Do you feel that a household in which the parents have divorced and remarried is inherently unhealthy for the children and that they should be removed from it? Even though the children are aware that their father and mother are in love (and or sleeping with) people other than each other?

Do you feel that a household in which one or more parents is single and dating is inherently unhealthy for the children and that the children should be removed from their dating parent? Even though the child is aware that their parent is seeing prospective partners - perhaps even more than one?

Do you feel that a household in which a parent is married and remarried several times is inherently unhealthy and that the child should be removed from the situation? Even though the child is aware that their parent has loved many people over the course of his or her lifetime and that the other adult figures in their life have changed more than once?

Do you feel that having had an affair should disqualify you from having custody of your children in the event of a divorce? Do you feel that if one parent or the other has an affair and the parents choose not to get divorced, that their children should then be taken from them?

Do you feel that it is healthier for a child to grow up knowing that their parent's love is lasting and permanent (even if they also love other people) or for their parents to split up if one of them sleeps around or they fall for someone else?
----------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is possible that being raised in a poly household could have a negative affect on a child. If the other children in their life make fun of them for it, if they are social outcast because of it, if they feel like a freak. But these are effects of their surrounding environment, not of the household itself. Being Jewish in a Southern Baptist town, or white in a black neighborhood, or first generation American could all also cause the same scars. I personally feel that hiding your lifestyle from your children makes them more likely to view it as something shameful or embarrassing, but I'm just going off what makes sense to me. I haven't extensively studied child development or anything.

[TL4everu2]

In MY opinion, a child living in a poly household would only be "damaging" to the childs mental health or development, is if you hold them to traditional standards. Where in a "normal" family is one father, one mother, both living monogamously underone roof, and have never had an affair, etc etc etc. Basically, the Cleavers. Unfortunatly, we all know this just is not the "norm" in todays society. So, I ask; what is the "norm"? I further ask; WHO defines the "norm"? And further ask; what makes them the standing authority? What are their credentials and what medical proof do they have that shows that a child living in an openly poly famil is damaging to the childs mental or social health?

[GroundedSpirit]

..........back

.............
so i ask this....is it wrong? for the sake of the children are we forced to keep our polyamourous selves closet form our own children? does polyamoury foster an environment which is not healthy?

So this was the central question..........

being pretty much a relativist I'm a poor one to connect with right & wrong in any absolute sense. Each situation is unique and what's best and how it's approached has to fit accordingly.

Almost the same thing with "healthy". Define "healthy" ? Hard to see black & whites there also.

Like the examples you gave with gay parents etc, SO much depends on how you can explain that your parents are DIFFERENT than many others. How can you explain that where it's understood as a positive rather than a negative ? And how prepared are to you (ability and effort) to support those children with love and substance when they may become exposed to the almost inevitable attacks from the "mainstream".

The same concerns and methods come into play whenever parents adopt a belief system outside the mainstream. Be it religious, political, social etc etc. They need tools to be individual thinkers, thick skinned and a chance to see honesty & integrity around them and to live that way themselves.

That's the kind of stuff that you need to be "healthy"............

GS

[vandalin]

Do you feel that a household in which the parents have divorced and remarried is inherently unhealthy for the children and that they should be removed from it? Even though the children are aware that their father and mother are in love (and or sleeping with) people other than each other?

Do you feel that a household in which one or more parents is single and dating is inherently unhealthy for the children and that the children should be removed from their dating parent? Even though the child is aware that their parent is seeing prospective partners - perhaps even more than one?

Do you feel that a household in which a parent is married and remarried several times is inherently unhealthy and that the child should be removed from the situation? Even though the child is aware that their parent has loved many people over the course of his or her lifetime and that the other adult figures in their life have changed more than once?

Do you feel that having had an affair should disqualify you from having custody of your children in the event of a divorce? Do you feel that if one parent or the other has an affair and the parents choose not to get divorced, that their children should then be taken from them?

Do you feel that it is healthier for a child to grow up knowing that their parent's love is lasting and permanent (even if they also love other people) or for their parents to split up if one of them sleeps around or they fall for someone else?

These are great questions! They would be useful for anyone who questions about whether poly is a healthy environment. Thank you for putting these up.

[May]

Yes, thanks for the questions, drgnsyr. Logically, from that therapist's point of view, there'd be a lot of children better removed from their biological parents then... :eek:

I can't say that our children suffer in any way from living with three parents. Quite the contrary: it really seems they feel more relaxed and happy when all of us are around (which is not always possible), probably because we are more relaxed and have more time to spend with them. There'll probably be a time (when they reach puberty for instance) when they might be embarrassed about it somehow (but at that time you're embarrassed about anything your parents do), so there'll definitely be problems we have to face (but parents always do). But I don't see how this should harm them, provided that we do our homework and go on living our lifestyle and talk to them about it when they ask for it.

[LovingRadiance]

May-
It's possible that as teens they will be embarrased, but it's quite possible that they won't care as well.
I have four kids-18,14,10,3. They all know. As does my godson who is 13 and the other two girls who lived here, 17,18, and my daughters friends all know-including the 17 year old boy I always tell everyone is just AMAZING in his working understanding of relationships, love and life. Not a one cared. Not a single one.
They all come over and hang out by choice. They are all comfortable with ANY of us and they all enjoy the company of any of us.
In fact it's not unusual for them to take one or another of us out with them when they go to the movies or on dates with friends.
When a child grows up with something as "normal" to them-they don't tend to stop seeing it as normal.
Now-knowing WHAT you do sexually-I've NEVER met a teen that didn't think the idea of their parents DOING sex was gross and didn't want to hear about it.
But not because of WHAT or WHO they are doing it with as much as NOT wanting to think of THEIR PARENTS in a sexual way.
So much of a teens thoughts are sexually based, but they instinctually understand that their parents don't belong in that section of their mind. :)

[May]

Thanks for your assurance, LovingRadiance :)

I am also quite confident that we are able to go on being honest to ourselves, each other and the children, so, though they will notice their family is different, they won't be bothered about the situation. In fact I grew up in a similar, poly-like family situation and I can't say it did me any harm nor did I ever feel ashamed about it. Quite the opposite: the way my parents handle their relationship and the relationships to others (lovers and friends) always impressed me and I must say I am really proud I grew up in such a cool family. I have some hope that our children think the same one day (even if they might not admit it to us ;) ).

[redpepper]

not child free, but when my boy is away and it's just us?... I totally see how easy it could be eaiser!

One day. He's seven now... that leaves at least 10 plus years before he may move out?? *sigh* :o

[Lemondrop]

I love this thread and think it's worth bumping.

Also, early on in this thread I had mentioned that I was in a quad situation and three of our children were attending school together, and someone asked me to keep them updated. Well, a year later... (I'm sorry!!!)...

The school year went fine. Teachers were notoriously unable to tell who was whose mother, and so just grabbed whoever they found roaming the hallways. Because of this, I volunteered in a classroom that didn't belong to me...was asked to sign documents for a child that wasn't mine (I respectfully declined this)...and was constantly given updates on children who didn't biologically belong to me. At one point, Asha was out of town and her children's teachers expressed surprise that I had come home early. (Really sad when you consider that Asha is a blond and I'd been dying my hair red.) We attended school events together as a family, and at no point was there any question about who belonged to whom, nor were there any raised eyebrows over Easy having his arm around Asha or me hanging out and talking to Sunday every morning. Of course, we didn't do anything lascivious, but who would? I don't behave that way with Easy, either. Over all, our families were intertwined all year with no real comment from the teachers. I had a teacher ask me two or three times if Asha and I were sisters, to which I just replied, "Our families are very close" or "We're very close friends". No one ever asked more than that.

Funny thing is, my Monkey is going to a different school this year, but I went with Asha to pick up her kids a couple of weeks ago. At one point, I ran into one of the teachers who couldn't figure out who I was last year, and she *still* thought I was Asha. She even hugged me, and frankly, I don't think we've even been introduced.

Another funny moment...Asha and I were in the same homeschool co-op for years, TOGETHER. Yesterday, she had my Moose at a store and ran into another co-op member...who thought she was me and proceeded to ask her lots of questions about Moose and his school. We rarely bother to set people straight--it sometimes is just like having another you to step into your shoes and allow you to be in two places at once.

[inlovewith2]

That's something Lemondrop! I've been reading this thread with interest because DW and I are heavily considering coming out to our kids--they are 9, 7, and 4 and have met DW's girlfriend.

I'll post questions later but we are off to the track--I'm glad it went well for you Lemondrop and that you don't get flustered by the mistaken identities :-).

[MonoVCPHG]

That's something Lemondrop! I've been reading this thread with interest because DW and I are heavily considering coming out to our kids--they are 9, 7, and 4 and have met DW's girlfriend.



Redpepper's son was five when we met so over the last two years he has kind of just grown into me in his family. He knows we all love each other so it's natural fo him now. I think the only way it would seem unnatural is if some one were to tell him that or he felt teased or judged.

Another friend of ours just came out o his teenage daughters. They simply told him "whatever, as long as it doesn't affect their lives".
He was disappointed that they didn't want to talk about it more or discuss alternate ways of having relationships. He is relieved to be out though and feels it was a positive move.

[TL4everu2]

Our kids just met L's boyfriend last week. It was a positive experience. They both love him and think he's great for her. Our oldest (19 y/o daughter) said she liked the way he treated L. She also said that while he wasn't what SHE would have chosen, he WAS kinda hot. LOL

[jcatx]

So I am married and have a two year old. Live with my husband the boyfriend is a couple hours away..Any poly people here who have kids and how does this work out for you? I suppose when i initally found my husband friend attractive it was also considering the things that are missing from his life and in a way if he wanted, (and I very much wanted) him to know the joy of being with children. He has never been married and has no children. Or do you see this as being a potential problem? Since he is unaware of the demands of children?and has such a different lifestyle.

[LovingRadiance]

GG had no children of his own.
He's beloved by all of ours.

The story can be found in my posts if you want to research it or you can use the link to my blog that is in my signature.

He's been "Nuncle GG" to my now 19 year old since she was almost 2.
He's been "uncle GG" to my 14 year old stepson since he was 2 (when I married his dad).
He's been "uncle GG" to my 10 year old son since he was born.
he's the bio-father of my 3 year old and she calls him "MY GG" (she calls my husband daddy-but all of the kids and the whole family know the whole story and she will-we tell her now-but she doesn't get it yet).

He's an AWESOME uncle, a beloved "3rd parent" and a wonderful part of our family.

It just depends on the person I suppose.

[redpepper]

So I am married and have a two year old. Live with my husband the boyfriend is a couple hours away..Any poly people here who have kids and how does this work out for you? I suppose when i initally found my husband friend attractive it was also considering the things that are missing from his life and in a way if he wanted, (and I very much wanted) him to know the joy of being with children. He has never been married and has no children. Or do you see this as being a potential problem? Since he is unaware of the demands of children?and has such a different lifestyle.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2989&highlight=merged+unmerged

I had a thread once that went into some detail of what you are asking. Hope it helps and is interesting. :)

[Athena]

From previous posts, obviously not CF! However, respect that other people may want to be focused on career achievement, travel, just plain not have to be financially responsible for anyone but their individual self! In some ways, even though I adore my son, even apart from the bipolar it was a bit like a bomb blast - suddenly my time was sooo not my own, and it was clear on going back to my job that that particular job was going to be impossible if I wanted to do what I felt was an adequate parenting job, and even so I know I will never have the time to just pick up a new topic professionally and read up on all the latest until kiddo is much older and more independent (and even so, given how tough it was to be an only child, I seriously think he would benefit from one or two sibs, although age, meds and fertility issues may make us parents of a singleton in the end...)

[NeonKaos]

i was an only child and i didn't think it was "tough" at all. Something to think about. Just because you thought it was "tough" doesn't mean it will be that way for your son.

[Ariakas]

i was an only child and i didn't think it was "tough" at all. Something to think about. Just because you thought it was "tough" doesn't mean it will be that way for your son.

Ditto, I was an only child and am a well adjusted adult. There is really a myth built around only children that I find annoying and judgemental, but thats a whole other rant.

[Tonberry]

I have lots of only child friends who had a happy childhood, and I had siblings and really wish I hadn't. I think if you have children, you shouldn't do it to keep your first child company. What happens if they hate each other? Being blood related doesn't make you more likely to get along than any other people forced to live together for years: sometimes you're the best friends ever, sometimes you can't stand each other.
So I think that should be left out of the equation as it depends too much on the children's personalities, and that's impossible to guess.

[SNeacail]

and even so, given how tough it was to be an only child, I seriously think he would benefit from one or two sibs, although age, meds and fertility issues may make us parents of a singleton in the end...

Once kids start school or you watch them with a group of other kids, it isn't hard to tell which ones don't have any siblings (even if they have been in daycare). I think once they are adults, things tend to even out. It really doesn't matter as long as the parents are invested (may mean regular play dates and living in a neighborhood with other young children).

[Raven]

I've read through the Child-Free thread, and decided to start one for those of us who want to have kids. I don't have any kids at the moment, but I plan on one or two at some point in the future (fingers crossed, after graduate school).

Why I want to have children: I think one of the primary reasons goes back to how I think about changing the world. I firmly believe that the primary way to make the world a better place is by one's own day to day actions, making good choices and treating others well. To me, having and raising a child is one way to make a significant contribution to the world by influencing someone else to keep making it a better place after I'm gone. It also gives me a chance to make that child's world a better place. Sure, I know I'll make mistakes - from what I've seen, it's impossible to have a child and not make mistakes. And there are definitely other, very significant, ways to make the world a better place while never having a child. This is simply one that feels very personal and productive to me.

I also think I will really value the experience of bonding to my child and watching him or her grow into his or her own person - someone related to and yet in other ways completely different from me. I have a lot of younger siblings, and I've really enjoyed that experience from a sibling perspective as well.

Finally, I do think there's some biological urge / social programming in there. Doesn't mean it's wrong, or bad, just that it exists.

What are your reasons for wanting / having children? If you already have kid(s), what do you feel has been most significant to you about that choice and that journey? :)

[FlameKat]

Well, this will be an interesting topic :D

I have three children, my eldest will graduate high school next year, the youngest is still in primary.

I did not plan to have any of mine - except for the middle... the other two were definitely unplanned.

Despite everything my children have been put through, everything they have had to contend with. I can see my own influence still working on them, I see it in the way they think for themselves... I see it in the way they will, in the middle of their own funk, surprise someone they care about by doing a gesture of love for them, making others smile when they are down...
I see it how they question their own beliefs, and the beliefs of others, and do so mostly respectfully (they are still kids :p) I see it in how they are respectful of other's opinions and thoughts, and in how they are healing each other from the hurt they have been through, despite that a couple of years ago they blamed each other.

I see it how they learn from the mistakes I have made throughout their lives - and choose for themselves to do better, to be different... I am so proud of my children, they make MY world better... hopefully they make everyone else's better too.

They still fight and squabble, and be selfish and miserable to each other - but when I step back - they are building a beautiful thing together... and I know that my strength and determination for them to have that... that is what is giving them the push to do it...

As much as I feel shame and guilt for the hardships they suffered, I am so very proud of helping them start to heal, helping them build their strengths back, and so very proud to stand back and say - these are my children... beautiful through and through...incredible people they are :D they give me strength and courage, just as I give them a springboard to explore the world from, and a safe place to rest :D

LOL - hopefully that rambling answered the question somewhat - very hard to answer, as my answer is a 'feeling', a 'knowing' in myself that it is good and right... it just IS.

[Raven]

I got so wrapped up in why I want to have kids that I forgot to ask: How does it relate to your choice to be poly? How does it enrich / make more difficult your poly life?

For me, the choices are related - part of why I choose to be poly is because I'm coming to believe that the more love and bonding there is to share, the better the world is and the better my life is, and monogamy isn't a restriction that I would want to come in the way of that. I can see how poly may very well become more difficult with children. My extended family would by no means approve of poly if they knew, and I'd like my children to know their grandparents, so... I'll have to take things as they come, but I do think that part will be more difficult. On the other hand, I can imagine that child rearing will be enriched with more caring adults around.

[FlameKat]

I am unsure as to how my children would react (if I ever got something happening :p)... my eldest would likely not take it well, my youngest would probably think it awesome, confusing but awesome (more pressies you see... no seriously more attention :p), and the middle would likely be confused but accepting... she has her own things she is sorting through in regards to her sexuality so maybe it would go over her head...

i am quite stubborn and would expect my relatives (immediate family) to be understanding or to hold their tongues - thats just how my family works... not always a good thing but it works, mostly.

I would see as an opportunity to give my children the experience that its okay to be different, that they can choose the way they want to live and they will still be accepted by their family, its easy to say its okay - its another thing to immerse yourself in it and experience it... there is no better teacher than experience :D

LOL - yet another rambled response - sorry about that - I had never really thought specifically about what value the children would receive from it - other than extra adult(s) and support...

Make more difficult - custody issues...

[SourGirl]

Great topic, great reasons to have children. :)


I am a mother of 4.

I also love children. I love raising them, and watching them develop, and seeing their interactions and their views of the world. I love debate and discussion and offering them a soft place to fall.

I love the crap moments too. Children have taught me as much, as I have taught them.


Poly can have benefits and restrictions. I just said on another thread I don`t care to 'come out" to anyone , or throw my poly in my families face. I have made the decision to be fairly private, but not live like I commit some shameful act.

I would like my trusted poly partners to be around my children, as I think the old adage about it taking a village to raise a child, is true. We dont live in a world anymore, where you can trust your neighbour down the street to call you and tell you if your child is in trouble.

Poly can fill that void, in a round-about way.

On the other hand, I dont care to have my childrens' childhood be centred around my poly lifestyle, via their interactions and overhearing of family members. If shit ever did hit the fan, I would deal. I think its my job to show my children that what I am, and do, is private, but NOT shameful.


With children come sacrifices and choices. Many of which, we are more then happy to do.

[BrigidsDaughter]

Having children was always a given for me, though if things had gone as planned I'd have a 1 year old now instead of a 9 year old. lol. Though some miscommunication between my different doctor's offices, I was put on a combination of medications that negated my birth control. Having more children has been off the table for a few years now. Early on our son's health problems and subsequent surgeries put having a second child on hold, then we just plain couldn't support another child, and now I don't think my joints could handle the strain.

As for how poly affects our son (and our partners' son); it doesn't much, because they don't know that their parents are anything more than best friends. I'd say that their son has had a bigger adjustment, but that's just because his mom is starting to be a bit more social outside their immediate family and that means that she's leaving him home more often. Infact, last weekend was the first time he's ever been left home w/o adult supervision (he's a teenager) and that was so our quad could go to see Tron: Legacy.

[FlameKat]

Well said SourGirl :D

[Ariakas]

Wanting kids is a new thing for me. I had been....indifferent to rugrats until a few years ago. I have since "wanted" kids but had no real inclination to putting in the work.

Meeting sourgirls children and see how she parents and how the children "are" inspired me in a lot of ways. Really pushed me to be more conscious of wanting kids.

At this stage, my wife and I are looking at the steps to make it possible. With the medications she is on, this is a big job to get this going. But I/We are finally motivated to make it a reality.

As for having kids and being out. Not sure, I guess I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

[LovingRadiance]

I have 4 and my Godson.
All of the kids know we're poly.
I don't think any of them care, but there isn't a lot of drama about it either.

I've always been a "take me as I am or go away" kind of person. We don't throw poly in people's faces, for example, I have a friend whose a Deacon in the Episcopal church. Sexual behavior to her is meant to be in the bedroom between husband and wife. She knows I don't feel that way-but I don't go about doing things that make her uncomfortable and she doesn't impose her rules on me either, so if I want a sexually charged kiss goodbye from GG while she's here, I take it to the front entry. Not in her face, not missing out either.

At the same time, we don't hide it from the kids. It would be a nightmare to try to. Our oldest has always known I was poly-even before we knew the word. That's just me.

The younger ones we explained things to last September when I "came out" and decided to put everything on the front burner.

I couldn't live poly and keep it a secret from my kids. To me it would be a contradiction of what I believe. If it's that important to me, then whose to say it won't be to them? They deserve to know it's ok to be whoever they are, poly, mono, straight, gay, bi etc.

[redpepper]

Little buddy (LB) is an absolute joy. He is the one I want to hang out with when my life is hard and I need solace. I went and sat with him tonight as he did some craft project that I didn't understand. I cut something when he asked, held things that were gluing and he fed my soul and made me realize that when life sucks, its important to remember its as simple as doing a craft that is tough to do without adult help. He reminds me every day of the simple joy of life. Money can't buy that, extra time can't buy that, grown ups don't do that like a child does. To me LB is the spirit of life in our house.

Children are a little piece of heaven and a little piece of hell. Anyone who can parent well deserves a medal for having to deal with that huge continuum between the two.. It really is a life time achievement. It's taking life by the horns and living it. It's a right of passage for some that defines the stage of life they are in. To me it has become the glue of my entire childless family (my boy is it). Especially at this time of year!

I really don't think people need to parent kids. I just think that they should include them in their lives and do their best to be there for kids. It really does create a healthy balance.

[LovingRadiance]

Little buddy (LB) is an absolute joy. He is the one I want to hang out with when my life is hard and I need solace.

I'm right there with you, Sweet Pea is my Little Buddy and when my world falls apart, he's the one I want to hang out with. When I daydream about "getting away" I day dream about taking him to Australia and checking out the interesting things he would find to show me. He's so relaxed, so calm, so patient, so understanding and naturally considerate and loving.

Gotta love those kiddos!

[redpepper]

Once kids start school or you watch them with a group of other kids, it isn't hard to tell which ones don't have any siblings (even if they have been in daycare). I think once they are adults, things tend to even out. It really doesn't matter as long as the parents are invested (may mean regular play dates and living in a neighborhood with other young children).exactly, we are raising an only child. None of our sibs have kids, LB is the only one in an aging family of almost 40 year olds. I make sure he spends a lot of time with other kids at school because of this and bend over back wards to create interesting play dates for him and his friends so he might have one on one time with them. He doesn't like kids coming to the house and prefers his down time over hanging out with other kids, but its all been done before and I am not worried. He is always smiling, self motivated and very popular at school. He is confident and makes sure we know what his preference is and what his needs are. I am very proud of how he is being raised. even more so now that he has an extra grown up buddy that loves him and cares for his well being. Mono is on our will as being his guardian if we both die. Mono get the house and LB gets our money. Mono could have tenants to pay the mortgage and we have really good life insurance. I feel very comfortable with our arrangement and the life we have set up for LB... sorry, a bit off topic. :o

[Christina]

we have a 3 month old and it is our first. and not sure how we are going to explain everything. i told them i don't want to be called mommy #2 so he is going to call me auntie c (he does not have any aunts) and i am ok :confused: i dont know how we are going to answer all the question he is going to have like why does auntie c sleep with mommy and daddy. and i have a bad feeling that he is going to call me mommy before his mother becuase i stay home and watch him while they are at work so me and him are going to be close:confused:

[SNeacail]

i dont know how we are going to answer all the question he is going to have like why does auntie c sleep with mommy and daddy.

This question probably won't even come up until the teenage years. Kids could careless where you sleep as long as they feel safe and can climb into bed with you when they are scared.

[Vivien]

I wanted to thank you all for the thoughtful discussion here. My primary and I spend a lot of time talking about what, when, and how to talk to our spawn about other people who are part of our lives. Right now, it's important to me that we keep his expectations in check; he likes to play with my girlfriend, who's here with us several times a week, but her role is definitely that of a family friend. My relationship with her is new(ish), so while I think it's good for our son to interact with her, I also want to be clear with him that, while we love girlfriend (I have got to come up with some nicknames for everyone!) my primary and I are his moms who will always love him and never go away. We try to talk to him about how friends can come into our lives and sometimes go out, and that's ok. We make sure he knows that while some relationships can change or even end, his relationship with us will never stop. I'm somewhat affectionate with girlfriend while my son is around, but it's the kind of affection I could also share with my best friend -- hugs, head on a shoulder kind of things, but not kissing.

Several people talked way back at the beginning of this thread about not wanting to give their children the challenge of being different. I certainly understand that, but since my son has two moms, we're already different. I don't get fussed about it. I do get fussed about secrecy. I don't want to burden him with my secrets. I think that's part of what's motivating me to be more open about polyamory lately. The secrecy thing isn't an issue right now, but I can imagine it becoming one down the road if we aren't completely out.

[redpepper]

I really encourage you read some threads on this. We have talked about names, secrecy, all of it.

My boy is seven and he came into his own name for Mono. I told him after about a year that I love Mono and that he is family to us. I told him that people come and go. My ex wife had a girlfriend that cheated on her and left her high and dry. She came to stay with us for awhile and I went and stayed with her so that she could grieve and be supported. We told our boy that his auntie Wendy was not going to be around any more and that some people come and go. It doesn't mean we don't love them after they are gone, but they need to move on. Sometimes we do to.

Its not really that different than any other relationship dynamic. Its a matter of confidence in what you are creating. You know what that's like if you are lesbians. Kids get that and also feel confident. There is also no rush to *make* it work. Being a good host to others is all it takes; welcoming, respectful, considerate... the rest manifests. If others don't give that back then its time to move on and not involve them in your life I think.

I have written a bit on this in my blog and in a thread about being a good host. I can find it if you want. I wouldn't mind reading it again actually. But I can't right now. I'm on my phone. Again, I would highly suggest doing some reading here. Lots of really good input. :)

[Vivien]

Thanks for your response, RP.

In looking back at my post, I realized it was ambiguous at the end. When I wrote that I don't want to burden him with my secrets, I meant that I don't want to tell him something and then ask him to keep it a secret. If there's a time when he needs to know that a particular person is more than a friend, then I want everyone to know. I feel pretty strongly about living openly and being a positive example of our values.

[intriguing89]

My husband illusion010101 and I have our 14year old daughter living with us. She has been visiting her grandparents for the last several weeks so we have not had the opportunity to sit down and discuss our recent change in situation. Our daughter has always known that I am Bi We have always been very open and honest about sex and she has friends that are gay so I believe she will be understanding. We plan to explain to our daughter that L will be around alot but that she is not expected to think of her as another mom but that we want her to take her time and define what L will be to her. Explaining there will be more love for her,not less, another woman to talk to and spend time with. As my husband and I are new to the poly lifestyle we would appreciate any suggestions or advice you may have to offer us.

[SNeacail]

My husband illusion010101 and I have our 14year old daughter living with us. She has been visiting her grandparents for the last several weeks so we have not had the opportunity to sit down and discuss our recent change in situation. Our daughter has always known that I am Bi We have always been very open and honest about sex and she has friends that are gay so I believe she will be understanding. We plan to explain to our daughter that L will be around alot but that she is not expected to think of her as another mom but that we want her to take her time and define what L will be to her. Explaining there will be more love for her,not less, another woman to talk to and spend time with. As my husband and I are new to the poly lifestyle we would appreciate any suggestions or advice you may have to offer us.

I'm curious why you have to qualify that your daughter is not expected to think of this woman she is just meeting as another mom? Why not simply say that she is your g/f, you guys lover her and she will be around alot. Then ask if she has any questions. Don't try and sell her on this person, just let them get to know each other in their own time.

[illusion010101]

in the past all my relationships have been mono. my parents are very old fashioned and when i split with my daughters mother N and began a relationship with my sons mother D my parents really pushed the "titles" I think it put a lot of stress on our (mine and my daughters) relationship with D. After D and i split up I did the single parent thing for a year, I was totally discouraged. when I met Intriguing, again my parents pushed the labels, and again it put a damper on the bonding process of H my daughter and Intriguing. We don't want to force a bond with L and H, we want them to get to know each other at there own pace. I think Intriguing is looking for different ways to broach the subject with H as am I. I like the g/f idea, I think it would work. The one thing I'm concerned about is that H does have a strong relationship with my folks and I dont want them to push there prejudices on H. I want H to make her own decisions on our triad. I think Intriguing and myself are looking for a sounding board basically, although one can never plan the future it doesn't hurt to think about different senarios and try and plan a response. sorry if i rambled just woke up and haven't had coffee yet. pretty bad i'm delaying my coffee to see whats new in polyland.

[LovingRadiance]

It sounds like a good time for a serious sit down talk with your daughter.

I think RP and Mono wrote a bunch about this when they were addressing their poly relationship with her parents (because her son is very close to his grandparents).

I know my children are all close to their grandparents as well.
We've always been very up front that even if mom and dad don't agree on what is "right or wrong" for each other, we love them and we want them to grow up to make their own choices for themselves-while also promoting that they accept that each person has to do that for themself and inevitably we aren't going to all agree.

It's good to avoid damaging the child's relationships, but it's also important to teach her what you believe and why-so that she has a chance to consider that it's OK for her to love different people who have different opinions.
;)

[SNeacail]

The one thing I'm concerned about is that H does have a strong relationship with my folks and I dont want them to push there prejudices on H.

I am currently struggling with this. When I hear my kids repeat something that obviously reflects something one of their grandparents said (usually my mother or MIL), I ask him where he heard that and proceed to try an explain that that is just their opinion and point out how it is not what I believe... It's kind of a fine line, because I really don't think it's constructive for him at 15 to aurgue with them, so I have to ask him not to. However, it does start opening up different areas of conversation that we normally wouldn't discuss. Heaven forbid a teenager talk to his mom about important stuff.:eek:

[LovingRadiance]

That issue existed from day one for me. My daughter is part Puerta Rican, my extended family are a bunch of prejudiced hicks.

She LOOKS white, if you don't try to hard to look. But it was VERY important to me that they understand, she's NOT. She's a BEAUTIFUL, LOVING, PRECIOUS, American with Puerta Rican blood and she deserves to be proud of HERSELF for WHO SHE IS, not who they wish she was.

My grandmothers husband called her a "Kansas City Nigger" and got himself kicked off my property for life.

He also called my son a "faggot" because he had long hair. (Same day, same result).

It also resulted in him not being allowed contact with the little ones. My oldest is free to see who she wishes, she's an adult. The last time I saw her and he in the same house (my mother's house) he mouthed off and touched her, she punched him whilst telling him to keep his "f'ing hands off her".

I was caught wondering what (if anything) I should do/say. As a rule of thumb we don't allow hitting. She's never, and I do mean NEVER had an issue obeying that rule. But at the same time, he quite literally asked for it with the way he was talking to her and then putting his hands on her.

I looked at her, she wasn't asking for anything from me. She knew what was or wasn't going to be said/done to her and she had made her choice. I left it alone. Suffice it to say, he figured it out as well, he stays the hell away from her, and the rest of the family FINALLY got it too-they figured out that none of my household is going to tolerate that b.s. and that I'm not going to try to uphold "be nice" behavior from my kids if they're being mistreated.

It's a FINE LINE between teaching a child appropriate behavior and not teaching them that it's ok for other people to mistreat them.

[redpepper]

It sounds like a good time for a serious sit down talk with your daughter.

I think RP and Mono wrote a bunch about this when they were addressing their poly relationship with her parents (because her son is very close to his grandparents).
It's right here http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=721 I agree... time to have a good talk. good luck with that!

[redevil]

As the child of parents who engaged in Poly and Swinger lifestyles, don't hide it from your kids. Myself and the daughter of my mom's last boyfriend, found out in our teens and it was so much harder to deal with. I found out by accident almost (heartless move on my mother's part) and it resulted in a lot of anger, outbursts at school and for me, a brief period of time living with my aunt about 400 miles away just to escape.

I am currently trying to figure out how to address this with my own children. My oldest is 10 and she will figure things out very quickly I know. The idea of "being chosen" or "choosing" someone for family is not going to be a hard sell for her because she is not my husband's biologically. She instead is very proud that her daddy chose her and is "stuck" with her brother and sisters. My other 3 are 5 and under. Lobster has a great deal of concern about telling the kids, but he agrees that our oldest is going to figure it out. I have been in those shoes, and you end up feeling lost, like you weren't respected and an myriad of other feelings that could have been avoided if my parents had been honest with me from the start. My wish is that my children will grow up considering this to be "normal" and see that love is a great thing, that doesn't have a set number of hearts.

[NeonKaos]

I think people are too preoccupied with getting their children's approval or permission for things. If you just tell them how it is, they'll respect you for your choices as long as you have been a good parent and they are secure in your love for them.

I do not say this "as a parent", as i am not one; but I say this as having been someone's kid.

[redpepper]

I agree with neon on this. I hate secrecy. It started when my dad had an affair. I knew something was going on and no one told me what. If they had said with the least amount pf emotion and most normalacy they could muster that my dad loved someone else and they were trying to figure out how to deal with that emotionally I would of been fine. But no, they hide it and it made me uneasy and scared. Needlessly.

[bella123456]

I think people are too preoccupied with getting their children's approval or permission for things. If you just tell them how it is, they'll respect you for your choices as long as you have been a good parent and they are secure in your love for them.

I do not say this "as a parent", as i am not one; but I say this as having been someone's kid.

I'm inclined to agree. I'm pretty new to all this, but this is how I've approached it with my child, who is 10.

He is introduced to anyone I'm seeing, that I may wish to continue seeing. I've told him that I believe it's entirely possible, acceptable, and not at all uncommon to have strong feelings for more than one person. His reply was that he thought you could love only one person.

I've replied that given there are so many different people in the world, it completely makes sense that he could hold that view and others would hold different views, and that the main thing in life is to remain respectful and supportive of different views and opinions.
He goes to a religious school, and we're both committed athiests, so we often have conversations about being respectful of other's views that may not match your own. I don't need his approval at all...but I do need to be honest with him.

Within the boundaries of what is an ok conversation to have with a child....I pretty much believe if I hide something from him it's not validating my views or my behaviour. I'm proud of the decisions I make, and the lifestyle I choose...If I'm not open with him about it, that's suggesting on a subconscious level that something is not ok with what I'm doing.

I've also said to him "If you ever want to have a conversation about this...That's ok, it's important to me that you feel ok with what's going on in our lives, so feel free to bring up anything, at anytime"

"it's ok...I'm fine"

I should also stress that I'm only at the tip of the iceberg, and my life is pretty uncomplex in terms of relationship dynamics....so there's not too much to explain to him at this point.

I've felt it's important to lay some fundamentals down for what may happen in the future though.

[illusion010101]

Well we did it we had the talk. In hindsight my daughter is to smart for her own good. We bagan by talking about intriguing's bisexuality and how H felt about that. Then had to explain what manogamy was, by the time we got to the Poly term. she asked if L was our girlfriend. we said yes, her response was "ok can you guys keep it down at night" both my ladies are a little loud, "screamers" you might say. anyway H asked if she could get to know L on a one to one basis and there going to shoot pool on tuesday. she seems to be accepting of the situation. sometimes i have to ask my self how i managed to get such a great kid, seems like intriguing and I were worried for nothing. We'll keep posting if anything changes.

one last thought, This site has been such a great help and source of inspiration. I just want to say thanks to all.

[LovingRadiance]

Congrats. :)
Aren't kids great?

[Vivien]

Sounds like it went well, illusion! I love how self-aware and able to communicate needs your kid sounds.

[illusion010101]

yup shes a keeper. lol

[pollyshari]

This is the big discussion for me. I know that some of my family will try to accept it. I have been this way my whole life but cannot live it. My children are teenagers. My hubby and I have found someone who we want to be with. We don't want to lose her but we have no doubt of the selfishness of asking her to be just a mistress. She so deserves more. I am afraid my boys cannot deal with it, or process it or whatever. Especially the 13 yr old, just such and akward age to begin with.

[SNeacail]

This is the big discussion for me. I know that some of my family will try to accept it. I have been this way my whole life but cannot live it. My children are teenagers. My hubby and I have found someone who we want to be with. We don't want to lose her but we have no doubt of the selfishness of asking her to be just a mistress. She so deserves more. I am afraid my boys cannot deal with it, or process it or whatever. Especially the 13 yr old, just such and akward age to begin with.

What would you be doing that your kids couldn't accept? Have they told you this was an issue?

[dingedheart]

hey polyshari got similar problem, my case I think the wheels are starting to come off due to an event of previous weekend. I'm thinking of handing out copies of the ethical slut, however I haven't actually read it myself. Big changes in the air here. I've got someone looking into the mental health coverage of my insurance as a fall back, or maybe a starting point not sure.

[pollyshari]

What I am doing is my poly hubby and I are leading a secret double life. We are very secure with each other and poly relationships. We did marry and start a family as a mono couple. Our children don't know anything different than us being mom and dad and lovers with one another. We have a girlfriend, she is our second poly relationship, the first one did not work.

My oldest son has grown up with a good friend in the neighborhood who's family arrangement consists of the mom and her lesbian lover plus dad still lives there, although they are divorced. I think he would take it better than the other 2. Additionally, we have good friends who are lesbian. Even though we consider them good friends I do hear my boys making jokes about the lesbian couples. I do remind that they are responsible good people who do good things and take good care of one another. However we do live in a very conservative town and state, with a dominant religious (and sexually repressive) structure. I have not discussed this with my children at all. I am just scared.

My Mormon parents and siblings will be apalled. But their disaproval is not what will stop me.

[SNeacail]

What I am doing is my poly hubby and I are leading a secret double life. We are very secure with each other and poly relationships. We did marry and start a family as a mono couple. Our children don't know anything different than us being mom and dad and lovers with one another. We have a girlfriend, she is our second poly relationship, the first one did not work.

Most kids, especially teenagers don't even want to consider that their parents have sex with each other, much less anyone else. So unless you are "doing it" with the girlfriend right under their nose:eek: (which I doubt would ever happen in any case), they probably won't even think twice about you guys having a close friend visit all the time. I don't agree that you need to exclude her from your lives and live a "double life", but there are ways to be descrete.

Sure, they may start forming their own conclussions eventually and if they start asking questions, give them honest answers and encourage them to ask more questions. Just my opinion.

We have a close friend (my husbands Non-Sexual Partner), she has been a part of our lives for years and not once have my kids even speculated that more was going on other than friendship. Other adults have, but not the kids. There's no sex or anything physical, but there is an emotional attachment.

It's true that our kids see more than we think they do, but they also don't tend to react to stuff unless it negatively effects them. They do tend to follow our lead in what is acceptable and what is not. If we hide it, they will think there is something to be ashamed of.


I am just scared.

Understandable.

[nycindie]

My hubby and I have found someone who we want to be with. We don't want to lose her but we have no doubt of the selfishness of asking her to be just a mistress. She so deserves more. I am afraid my boys cannot deal with it, or process it or whatever.

Well, she would not really be a mistress. That term implies cheating in a monogamous relationship. Is there a reason you think of it that way? She would be part of your poly relationship, hopefully with communication, and honesty at its core (and openness at the level at which you feel safe in your community). Perhaps your fears about how the kids will react are more related to the judgments that might come from the community. It's tough to feel like you're doing something wrong in other people's eyes. But if you and your husband personally have resolved your own issues or come to good terms with yourselves about being involved with a third person, before you act on what you want and introduce your family to a new person, I do believe your sense of okayness with it will be conveyed to your children when you do speak to them about it.

[pollyshari]

I don't think of her that way (a mistress) however, the secrecy does put her in a very similar position. I find myself sounding like a cheating spouse when I say things like. "You are so important to me..but...we can't be in the open". I don't blame her for feeling the way she does. I am frustrated with it as well (again sounding like a cheating spouse). Hubby and I get to live together every day 24-7. She does not get to participate that to the fullest, and she has mentioned wanting to have a family. I know what she wants, and I want to give it to her. It is just a huge leap to come out of the closet. I don't want to flip my kids world on end. Again especially the 13 year old, he is at an akward point in his life and trying to figure out who he is, now he has to understand what the heck is going on with mom and dad.

I am not ashamed of myself. I went through all of that guilt crap when I was younger and one day I just said, I am not living my life based on guilt any more. Practicing the religion of my father seemed completely unatural, it always had. Besides, my great great grand father (mom is very proud of ancestral roots that connect her to the original leaders of the Mormon Church) had 13 wives, HELLO???? That was all about property and Patriarchal rule.

I just didn't start to have poly relationships until after I became a mom so my kids weren't raised with it around them. I don't know anyone else who is either. My kids do know me as someone who respects the individual rights of others. This is The US of A after all.

[LovingRadiance]

If I may-I haven't read your every post.

But, we came out poly Sept 2009.
At that point my kids were
to days from turning 18, 13, 12, 9, 2 years respectively.

None of the kids freaked out. There were questions. The oldest rolled her eyes-but she's MY daughter and lived with my bizarre life so that was it.

The 13 is my stepson and he was raised believing that gay was wrong and pretty much out of the norm was wrong AND I was wrong too-so we expected flack from him. He seemed more relieved to know we were being upfront and honest than anything else.

The 12 is my Godson and he was raised in a VERY strict religious setting believing that damn near everything was wrong. He wanted more information and wanted to read about poly.

The 9 year old was a breeze. He said, "sounds like love to me mom. I mean, love isn't limitable anyway.."

The youngest doesn't know any different.

Usually-kids know more than we think they do. Regardless of what you decide, lying to kids is something that TENDS to backfire in the long run. Easier at times in the short run, but generally smacks us down as parents in the long run.

Good luck!!

(I have mormon family too-ironically, they didn't care).

[redpepper]

Our LB knows that he is loved and that is it really. Kids worlds usually revolve around them. He knows that mumma has a husband, his dad and a boyfriend and that we can all have love in our hearts for as many people as we want. Derby he knows is special to me and that she is also in my heart and I love her... He knows I love many people and I frame all my connections in terms of that, not sex. I love my ex wife, I love Leo, I love Dexy... my ex-tersiary (complicated I know)... I love many people and that is expressed in different ways that are agreed upon, are above board and are talked about ahead of time.

I know all that sounds rather hippish, but he is seven, so there ya go, it makes sense to him. I am wondering if this can't be fashioned in some way for a 13 year old. Your kids are living in mainstream society, all they know is mono relationships, but not in terms of definition. They know it in terms of what you present to them... present something different to them and be confident in that and they will think its the norm... be all weird about it and they will not only think you are weird but that it isn't okay... and it IS okay!

[pollyshari]

Thanks for all the advice and good will. I am considering it all, and then re reading now and then to see how it sounds after I have time to for thought and consideration. Some makes sense and some doesn't. I'll post again when I have questions or make a decision. Thank The Gods that there are people in this world who know that love is not limited.

[May]

Kids are sooo clever...

Our oldest daughter (3 years old now) always called her mother "momma" and me by my real name (well, the nick name by which her parents call me). About one or two months ago she started to call me "mommy" all by herself. No one encouraged her to do that, but you could tell she often was confused when calling for me like this "momm... erm [add my real name here]". So she decided to make things easier by addressing her mothers as "momma" and "mommy" respectively - clear to her, clear to everyone... and brilliant if you ask me :D

I just wanted to share this very nice experience with children growing up in a triad family. :)

[Carma]

My 28 year old daughter just found out about us yesterday and basically said she is disowning me until this is over. :( .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........AND..................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........... she told my mother. :confused:

[nycindie]

Carma, just remember something you posted in another thread awhile back:

I sometimes think I'm crazy for this endeavor, but I'm realizing, no -- it's a world that tries to put limits on love, that is what's crazy.

It's her loss if she actually disowns you. My guess, however, is that she might give you the deep freeze for a while, but would probably eventually come around if she stops to see how happy you are.

[Magdlyn]

Carma, wow, that's tough. Sorry it went so badly, coming out to her! Ever see those vids for queer ppl "It Gets Better"? Check youtube. Similar to coming out gay, families can need some time to adjust. Sometimes a few months, usually a year, sometimes much longer. She'll probably get used to it sooner or later.

[NeonKaos]

My 28 year old daughter just found out about us yesterday and basically said she is disowning me until this is over. :( .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ..........AND..................................... .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. .................................................. ........... she told my mother. :confused:

Your 28 year old is an adult and so are you.... and so is your mother.

Just saying...

We're all someone's child but at some point we have to STOP ACTING LIKE CHILDREN.

[redpepper]

That's harsh Carma.

I remember the moment I realized that my parents were people too. I was on my own, and so were they. Now it goes the other way sometimes and I take care of them! For a time we were equal though... it was a "right of passage" for want of a better term, that happened when I came out to them as Lesbian. Maybe your daughter has reached this. Her reaction seems to indicate the fact that she had glorified who her parents are and now they are just humans doing their thing.

I remember my own disappointment about that when my parents reacted to my news in a way that was not how they usually react to others outside of our family. They are usually very accepting. I was slapped in the face with the news that I had to actually do some educating and work around our relationship together...

:( hard stuff... I feel for you. keep us updated? How did your mum take it?

[Lemondrop]

Patience, Carma, and steadfastness. You're not doing anything wrong, no one else gets to live your life for you, and if you allowed her to steal your joy it would end up hurting the both of you, whether she realizes it or not. I would just keep living my life the way that made me happy and hope that eventually she will start to realize that, at the very least, she misses you.

I hope I'm being helpful, but I'll share my story with you. When I was in my 20's I found out that my best friend had an open relationship. It shocked me, and I was judgmental, but I still tried to be a good friend. (I think I failed because I was judgmental, but I tried to hide it and I was kind in other areas so maybe I wasn't a completely horrible friend.) The thing that made it hard for me was that her SO started to throw in my face how awful monogamy is and what an outdated concept it is and what a TERRIBLE person I am because I "forced" my husband to be monogamous. This went on for years and I hated him and I hated polyamory and I couldn't hear anything good he said because I was still hurting too much from the rotten things he said to me. For 17 years I hated polyamory because he was so rotten to me, and I couldn't really like it even after I saw my friend happy with her other partners because every time I would start to soften, along came the SO with his hate.

Then two things happened: my friend and her SO split up, so I stopped seeing him on a regular basis, and I started developing a relationship with my current sweeties. So simply put, the hate stopped and some love started. Over time I softened enough that I could embrace the concept that would allow me to be in a relationship with the three people I love. (You should have seen the look on my friend's face when I told her. It was completely out of character for the person she knew.)

The convoluted point I'm trying to make is: You catch more flies with sugar than vinegar. Be firm in taking care of yourself, but let yourself be the mom who loves her, too. She is more likely to find a way to embrace your lifestyle if you are filled with love and joy.

I'm sorry you're going through this. I hope it's short-lived and leaves everyone grown a little bit when it's gone.

[Braeica]

Poly and Kids- step, biological, adopted, grown kids, little kids, I just have two simple questions.

How have you handled it and what has worked well? What really, really didn't work well, either?

We've got a complicated situation and I think we've rolled with punches pretty well so far, all things considered. But I'd really like to hear other families' experiences.

[LovingRadiance]

With love. My blog details all sorts of things about our poly family.
We have step, adopted, grandkid, bio kids in a quad. :)

Just love them, be honest, up front and open and the rest works itself out.

[TeamD79]

My husband and I became involved in a triangle relationship with our unicorn well established in our marriage and lives. Our oldest is 15 and had the hardest time with the introduction of our girlfriend, however the younger children (8 and 11) didn't seem to bat an eyelash as she was introduced to the kids early on and made to feel part of the family.
We involved the kids in the relationship change seeing as it could change their lives as well as our own. For example we went out to eat and watched movies and played games with them just as if she was part of the family. We have had very close family friends before that were not involved in our relationship, and the younger children simply saw this as the same.

Our oldest being of dating age and doing a bit of soul searching herself saw the truth easily without us ever having to discuss the sexual nature of the relationship, which in our opinion is not their concern because we have raised them to be very open and understanding.
After talking with our daughter however and explaining that our friend made us happy and that it was about more than just sex, she understood and just as the others grew very close to our girlfriend, and that was all it took.

When mom and dad are happy the children usually follow suit if you keep an open relationship with them, not to mention that it is a good example to show the kids to love and grow and to not be ashamed of who you are and who you love.

However, we did have that small fear in the back of our minds that something could happen, someone outside who didn't understand could cause some kind of scene. We were careful to not be obvious in public, we kept the serious part to ourselves. But luckily nothing like that ever happened & even though the relationship is over she still does activities with us, just as several other of our friends do, the only one who knows something has changed is our oldest, who does understand the loss & knows mommy & daddy are hurt.
Our hope is that it will be taken as a lesson in life, one we learned with her as a family.

[sweetaugustbaby]

Im very new to this world..

Im not even out as bisexual to the world yet but think about it daily..

I dont want to hide that any more..

recently me and my boyfriend found this amazing girl..

she is super..

I think it would work long term with her..

she is everything we could ever want..

I dont see it as just sexual.

In the past Ive never had 3 somes Ive had a relationship with a man and a seperate one with a woman..the guy im with now its all or nothing..

Its an adjustment but Im getting use to it..

My biggest question is my 2 year old seeing mommy with or kissing a woman..I think for this to be sucessful it cant be a secret to my child..because she is so young will it just become the normal or how should I handle it..

[sweetaugustbaby]

Im not out at all...That makes things very hard.

I never do anything inappropriate with my boyfriend in front of her..

The most we do is kiss in front of her even..

We live together..

I dont think I will ever even kiss my girlfriend in front of her...I wouldnt want her saying mimi mommy kisses H....

Its pretty new right now guess I will cross that brige when I get to it..but I sooooo appreciate everyones imput..

[Carma]

My mom took it ok, because she knew there were strong feelings between me and my neighbor for many years leading up to this. She said I was out of my mind for thinking my husband was really going to be ok with it, though. And -- she was right, at times Sundance was NOT ok with it. And she thinks he walks on water, and does not want to see our family break up, so she was really concerned for him. Unfortunately, this came out at one of those low times, when Sundance was feeling insecure and afraid Butch and I were secretly conspiring to run away together (we weren't, at all, but he was scared).

My daughter is still not speaking to me. I realize she is just afraid we will get a divorce and her ideas of "home" and "security" will be shaken to the core. She is also very worried that the younger kids will have to go through a divorce. (This is my second marriage, so she went through one when she was 14, and loves my husband and thinks of him as a father).

We aren't getting a divorce! In fact, or marriage has grown stronger and our love, deeper.

My 23 year old knows -- she is very easy-going and understanding, but I keep the details to a minimum. Both the older girls live in New York City, so it's not a part of their everyday life, anyway. Our 4 youngest kids have no idea. Butch has 4 kids, and his are friends with ours, and we all feel that would be very difficult for them to understand. His ex is a HATER, who would twist it into something horrible to the kids. We don't need that.

But I do dream of the day when we can all hang out together. Maybe some barbeques this summer :) I can't imagine being physical with Butch in front of any of the kids though. That would be very strange. Except for hugs, I guess, because I hug everybody!

My oldest daughter is very conservative. It's my fault, partially -- I raised her that way! She is the only one who went to a Catholic all-girls high school. I had her when I was 15, so I think she was more influenced by my mom than by me, actually. My mom is a devout Catholic. But -- she is pretty cool. My oldest has always wished she had a "normal" upbringing, instead of a teenage mother and going through a divorce when she was 14, she hated that. She wanted the "Perfect Family." She has ISSUES. Now I am waiting for her to start her own "perfect family." I just can't wait to see how she accomplishes that! I'm being sarcastic. In truth, I really do hope she creates a life for herself that is more in line with her wishes. But that doesn't mean I am going to spend one minute of my time feeling guilty for living MY life, and loving who I love.

[SNeacail]

Now I am waiting for her to start her own "perfect family." I just can't wait to see how she accomplishes that! I'm being sarcastic. In truth, I really do hope she creates a life for herself that is more in line with her wishes.

I know full well that my mom felt the same way and I don't begrudge her that at all because I'm just waiting for the day when my 15 year old becomes a parent and has to deal with a smart ass teenager that refuses to do homework.:p I have gone to my mom more than once and said "I don't know how you did it".

[redpepper]

two year olds won't really know the difference between kissing your cat or kissing your girlfriend. Provided you aren't making out. If you are confident in your love, then so will they be. Homophobia is taught. If you don't teach it they won't know to be.

It will become normal. My boy thinks it is and we have been poly his whole life... we just decided to not make a big deal about it and keep letting him know that he can love anyone he wants, any gender and how ever many he wants to. he has always known that and always will :)

[koifish]

I often wondered what sort of discrimination kids of poly parents face. I think they can be raised to feel that poly is normal, but I wonder how they feel when they go to school and learn that most people's parent's are mono.

[Rachelina]

I did search for this but most of what I found was about preexisting children (actually my husband does have 4 of those but they are with us mainly on weekends). And I saw the thread "new babies" but our situation is different so I decided not to post there.

I almost wrote "having children in a tree" because we are in a gray area between triad and vee. It's a triad in terms of love and a vee in terms of sex, although this could change. Our girl is still on the opposite coast but will be moving back in August, and moving in with us not right away but probably soon. She and my husband want children together. This was hard for me to accept at first, especially since I wanted at least one too, but wasn't sure if I'd be able to (I am 37 and have a few health problems). But I did begin to adjust to the idea, and then....I got pregnant! I'm now almost 10 weeks.

We have a vision of raising children cooperatively....I guess kind of like a Mormon or other polygamous family. I'm 100% certain that our girl is not a cowgirl, and that her love and concern for me is genuine. So I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts, or stories about this kind of arrangement, or ideas about how to make it work smoothly. I know it's all in the very early stages but right now I'm optimistic and excited. :D

[inlovewith2]

Hi all,

I'm trying to catch up a bit on the forum since it's been a while and I realized reading this thread that I never shared how our kids reacted. Well, it was like a non-event. It was literally like "yeah, so, what's for dinner?" :) We've talked about it many times since and they continue to be un-phased. DW's gf is here at least 1-2 days a week and is part of the family. Our youngest, now 5, will say things like "that's because you love her right, like you love mom?". Also, one time when I was going somewhere with her, he asked if she and I were going to get married.

Our kids have always been very accepting, as we are, so that is likely a factor, but I for one am so glad we are being open and honest with them!

Good luck to anyone considering the options!

[BlackUnicorn]

I'm crazy about kids. I love being around them. Many times I prefer playing with them to boring adult yadda-yadda. I fancy myself somewhat popular among little people.

That's why I'm super-scared of getting involved in a poly-family with kids, because I think children really need totally reliable adults in their lives. I try very hard not to confuse them. So it's hard to hear comments like 'When is Blackie leaving?' or 'I like Blackie more than grandma'.

Haven't read through the entire thread, but what happens when a poly-family breaks up? What do you say to the kids? How to show them you still love them although you can't come over so often anymore?

[Penny]

Haven't read through the entire thread, but what happens when a poly-family breaks up? What do you say to the kids? How to show them you still love them although you can't come over so often anymore?

Yeah, I want to know about this too. My daughter (age six) is becoming attached to T-Rex (my bf). I am allowing their relationship to develop naturally. I want them to figure out how they want to relate to each other, without forcing things into a predefined shape. This weekend, when we were all on vacation together, she took his hand a couple times, chatting with him while they walked together. He loves kids and talks with her with focus and interest, and he has a delightful sense of fun.

My little girl is prone to forming strong attachments and to grieving loss very deeply. She is currently in therapy for grief of the loss of her grandma and grandpa, among others. While I am strong and feel no need to guard my heart from loss, as that would interfere with my ability to feel fully for T-Rex, she has had a history already of having a hard time coping with loss.

Things are going beautifully in my vee, but I know that there's a possibility that T-Rex might need to move on someday. He would make a great dad, would love to have kids, and I can't give that to him.

So I worry about that. Any tips for easing the transition would be empowering and would help set my mind at ease, even though the situation is purely hypothetical at this point.

[Tonberry]

I would think you'd need to deal with it the same way you deal with any separation, even in a monogamous relationship. I'd look into advice they give to mono couplings who divorce, for instance, it seems to me a lot of it would still apply in similar ways.

I think it would probably be important for the child or children to be able to keep a relationship with the partner who "breaks apart" even if neither parent does.

[LovingRadiance]

Children are people first, children second.
Like any other person they have a right to love who they wish.

Just because you break up doesn't give you a right to terminate the child's relationship.

They key is to treat each other (adults) with respect and honor, allow the children freedom of contact and to maintain loving relationships with children regardless of how your adult relationships fall out.

I've found this easy to do, other people, well they just can't get off the control horse I guess.

It helps a lot if you learn how to be friends with your exes.

[redpepper]

I agree with LR in that kids are people first. Its my job as LB's parent to make sure he continues relationships with people even if I don't. This is something we talked about before Mono moved in. I needed to know he would stay in LB's life and he needed to know that I would facilitate that. I keep everyone I have ever allowed close to me in my life and that is evident. He keeps the kids of his ex wifes best friends close to him and continues to visit them about once a month. Family of all kinds is important to both of us, regardless of relationships ending. I think that its really important to pick a family that actively has the same values. Playing lip service to that is different than being actively involved with ex loves.

Btw, kids often say they love someone over someone else. Its there way of saying they are having a good time, because they feel good in the moment. Often they don't have the words to express that they are and feel it as loving someone more. Its important to put it into context for them when they express their love and echo back to them the words to use, like saying, "you are having a really good time, aren't you."

[LovingRadiance]

Playing lip service to that is different than being actively involved with ex loves.

VERY TRUE.

My oldest is still closely in touch with damn near every person I've ever dated. Several of them were at the hospital when the grandbaby was born.

My younger kids know the ones who still live near us, because they come over and visit and we go see them.

If you are careful about who you become involved with, there's rarely a reason to "hate" each other when you find out that you are no longer compatible as lovers. It's possible to AT THE VERY LEAST remain congenial with one another.

And

If you ensure that you don't bring lovers into your life that aren't great for your kids-there's no reason to allienate them from the kids if and when you stop being lovers.

[Derbylicious]

Just because you break up doesn't give you a right to terminate the child's relationship.


Do I ever know some people who could use that piece of advice!

[MrFarFromRight]

I often wondered what sort of discrimination kids of poly parents face. I think they can be raised to feel that poly is normal, but I wonder how they feel when they go to school and learn that most people's parent's are mono.I think that if you encourage in them a strong sense of worth, of love, and of understanding for those who are different, and encourage their strength of character, you can see through the troubles.

There will always be prejudices. Teach your kids about them. If you know some children who are likely to face prejudice for other reasons than your own, encourage the friendship. Once they're friends for some time, you might have a conversation something like (but don't force it):

You: "Well, you know that some people don't think that Sally is worth having as a friend, because she's got Down's Syndrome (or is an immigrant who doesn't speak the language perfectly - or whatever the case). But - you know? - when she gives me that big smile every time she sees me, I'm so glad that she's my friend!"
Your child: "Yeah! Me too!... Some people can be so stupid."
You: "I don't know if they're stupid. Maybe they just never had the luck to get to know Sally well. But it is pretty stupid to make up your mind about somebody that you don't even know..."

Once your child has defended somebody else' right to be different, it'll help them not to feel like such a victim if they ever face prejudice. (And, of course, you'll be there for them.)

+++

I have this story I never tire of telling: A friend of mine got pregnant quite young, before she realised/accepted that she was lesbian, had a boy child as a single mother. Her father had his suspicions about her, but no certainty. At one point he told her sister (who did know about my friend's sexuality and passed the comment on): "If I were sure that she was a lesbian, I'd go to court and get them to give me custody of the boy. She wouldn't be a fit mother."

[I have met this man once when he travelled with his wife from their home-country to the country where their daughter and grandson were long-term visiting (in the shared house where I lived - I met them {mother and son} when they moved in, when he was 5+ {he had his 6th birthday at our house}). He (the grandfather) was one of the most unfit people to have custody of a child that I've ever had lunch with. He had this big paunch, and wouldn't stop sniping at his wife about her weight. ("Gotta watch what you eat! You're getting fat." - ;)to the rest of us) He didn't put any limits on the amount that he was tucking away! Putting his wife and daughter down in front of - to him - total strangers, ;)ing as if we found his offensive jibes witty.]

They (mother and son) moved back to their home country (a rather macho one) and she brought him up - through a succession of lesbian relationships, with and without support - to face the jibes of the ignorant. We've maintained contact over the years, they've each separately visited me - far too seldom for my taste. (I think that he made his first visit across the ocean alone - to visit mainly an ex-girlfriend of his mother's (the one that she was with when we all shared a house) - when he was 15.) He's one of the finest young men that I know and I've told them both that they have every reason to be proud of each other.

And I don't tire of telling people that she's the most fit mother of my acquaintance.

Not a poly story, but the parallel's there.

[LovingRadiance]

My kids have always been taught that prejudice is caused by ignorance. If you want to kill prejudice, educate, educate, educate.

We haven't had issues with people treating our kids badly-in spite of me being a teen mom (pregnant at 15). Single mom til she was 6. Came out when she was 2 as bisexual-dated a woman for a year.
Continued to see the woman on the side while in an open relationship with a man, also had 3'somes with his best friend on the side over the course of that 4 year relationship-NONE of this being "secret".
shrug.
It's all in how YOU act, what you teach your kids through your actions (be bold and brazen or hide out in the closet like there IS something wrong with what you are doing) and who YOU choose to surround yourself with in my opinion.

[MrFarFromRight]

It's all in how YOU act, what you teach your kids through your actions (be bold and brazen or hide out in the closet like there IS something wrong with what you are doing) and who YOU choose to surround yourself with in my opinion.AMEN, Sister!!!

[BlackUnicorn]

Btw, kids often say they love someone over someone else. Its there way of saying they are having a good time, because they feel good in the moment. Often they don't have the words to express that they are and feel it as loving someone more. Its important to put it into context for them when they express their love and echo back to them the words to use, like saying, "you are having a really good time, aren't you."

Yep, and I think this particular incident was brought by a combination of the excitement of novelty, wanting to ensure I was going to stick around and realizing I wasn't going to make him do chores :D!

[redpepper]

I think that if you encourage in them a strong sense of worth, of love, and of understanding for those who are different, and encourage their strength of character, you can see through the troubles.

There will always be prejudices. Teach your kids about them. If you know some children who are likely to face prejudice for other reasons than your own, encourage the friendship. very true and so important. Tolerance is a learned thing and how I handle it is how he will learn how to handle it.

[redpepper]

I think that if you encourage in them a strong sense of worth, of love, and of understanding for those who are different, and encourage their strength of character, you can see through the troubles.

There will always be prejudices. Teach your kids about them. If you know some children who are likely to face prejudice for other reasons than your own, encourage the friendship. very true and so important. Tolerance is a learned thing and how I handle it is how he will learn how to handle it.

It's all in how YOU act, what you teach your kids through your actions (be bold and brazen or hide out in the closet like there IS something wrong with what you are doing) and who YOU choose to surround yourself with in my opinion.indeed :)

[Rachelina]

I did search for this but most of what I found was about preexisting children (actually my husband does have 4 of those but they are with us mainly on weekends). And I saw the thread "new babies" but our situation is different so I decided not to post there.

I almost wrote "having children in a tree" because we are in a gray area between triad and vee. It's a triad in terms of love and a vee in terms of sex, although this could change. Our girl is still on the opposite coast but will be moving back in August, and moving in with us not right away but probably soon. She and my husband want children together. This was hard for me to accept at first, especially since I wanted at least one too, but wasn't sure if I'd be able to (I am 37 and have a few health problems). But I did begin to adjust to the idea, and then....I got pregnant! I'm now almost 10 weeks.

We have a vision of raising children cooperatively....I guess kind of like a Mormon or other polygamous family. I'm 100% certain that our girl is not a cowgirl, and that her love and concern for me is genuine. So I was just wondering if anyone had any thoughts, or stories about this kind of arrangement, or ideas about how to make it work smoothly. I know it's all in the very early stages but right now I'm optimistic and excited. :D

I wish my post could have remained separate....now it is lost in this thread which doesn't really apply to my situation. There are some interesting stories here but I couldn't find any about people in a triad or vee having NEW children, to be raised in a polyamorous family with three parents from the very start. Anyone????? or is this not generally done?

[Tonberry]

I wish my post could have remained separate....now it is lost in this thread which doesn't really apply to my situation. There are some interesting stories here but I couldn't find any about people in a triad or vee having NEW children, to be raised in a polyamorous family with three parents from the very start. Anyone????? or is this not generally done?

It happens, but a lot of people worry about their children being taken away from them, so some are reluctant. Also, it's not uncommon for poly people to realise they're poly a bit later in life, at which point they have existing children and might not want more of them.
I think you'd have more luck looking how it's done with plural marriage, where it's very common to raise kids with several mothers from the get go (although not several fathers).

[MrFarFromRight]

I wish my post could have remained separate....now it is lost in this thread which doesn't really apply to my situation. There are some interesting stories here but I couldn't find any about people in a triad or vee having NEW children, to be raised in a polyamorous family with three parents from the very start. Anyone????? or is this not generally done?It happens, but a lot of people worry about their children being taken away from them, so some are reluctant. Also, it's not uncommon for poly people to realise they're poly a bit later in life, at which point they have existing children and might not want more of them.
I think you'd have more luck looking how it's done with plural marriage, where it's very common to raise kids with several mothers from the get go (although not several fathers).I think that the parallel is with other families (mainly couples) who want to have children and know that they [parents and/or children] are going to face prejudice: mixed race couples, couples expecting a child with Down's Syndrome or other "otherness", lesbian or single mothers [see my earlier post with the story about my friend: she knew before her child was born that both of them were going to have a tough time]...

Just as I believe that you should be honest right from the start with your children about sex, or the fact that they're adopted, or that grown-ups (including you) don't always have all the answers, or the fact that you have your down days or sometimes show anger towards them when they did nothing wrong - it's just that you were feeling mad at yourself or at something/somebody else and I'm sorry, Darling, that I let it out on you... just so I think that you should be honest with them right from the start about polyamory and stand beside them to face whatever prejudice the world might sling at you.

If you're not honest right from the start, then when they do find out... do you think that they'll ever trust you 100% again?

As for Tonberry's "looking how it's done with plural marriage": this is good advice and you should check it out, but remember that plural marriages are often an accepted facet of an already established community (such as the Mormons) that offers its members support. So it doesn't apply 100% to living poly while surrounded by monos. [I have to smile when I use the word "monos", because it Spanish it means monkeys!:D]

[Any time you feel that you need support, just come to this board!]

[BlackUnicorn]

I wish my post could have remained separate....now it is lost in this thread which doesn't really apply to my situation. There are some interesting stories here but I couldn't find any about people in a triad or vee having NEW children, to be raised in a polyamorous family with three parents from the very start. Anyone????? or is this not generally done?

If you are in a situation where babies are being actively discussed in a three-adult context, I would suggest you really look into the state laws and what kind of private agreements you can make. Draw up a list of things that need to be discussed and agreed upon. Here are some ideas;

1) If you live separately or somebody moves away at some point, how often can they expect to meet the child?
2) Who is the legal guardian? How many guardians can one child have in your state?
3) Who, if anyone, will claim paternity?
4) Who pays for the child? How will you negotiate financially important investments, like schooling fees?
5) Where will the child live? What if the relationship dissolves? Will you all still continue to live as family or does the child continue living with their birth parent(s)?
6) Where will the child spend Christmas, Thanksgiving, birthdays etc.?
7) Whose surname will the child have?
8) Who decides on the child's name? How many first names can one person have in your state?
9) Who will do what? What roles will you assume? Will all be equal co-parents and share in the decision making equally, or will somebody have more of an auntie/uncle position?
10) What if somebody wants to relocate out of state? Will your family form still be recognized in that state?
11) What will you do when there's conflict on decisions regarding the child?
12) If you want to have more than one child but they have different biological parents, should you take measures to prevent social siblings from being forced apart if the relationship ends?
13) What will be the role, if any, possible future partners will have in the child's life?
14) If there's problems with fertility, who will cover the costs of treatment?

[Rachelina]

Thank you Tonberry, MrFar and Black Unicorn for your responses.

Tonberry, I'm curious and alarmed by what you said about people worrying their children could get taken away. Has this happened? This isn't illegal, is it? Could a well-cared for child really be taken away from its two loving parents just because there was a third person involved?

BU, those are all great things to think about and discuss. Thanks!

[LovingRadiance]

Rachelina,

Our youngest child has been raised from birth in a three parent dynamic. Her bio-father she calls by his given name, she calls my husbandand I mom and dad.

We choose to have her, she wasn't an accident, she was planned. Her name actually references a triad.

She just doesn't happen to be my only or first child. ;)


Yes, children can be taken away in some states, because of asinine laws pertaining to what is or isn't legal regarding marriage and living situations.

[BlackUnicorn]

This isn't illegal, is it? Could a well-cared for child really be taken away from its two loving parents just because there was a third person involved?

Up in here reasons that can form the grounds for putting a family under 'surveillance' by the Child Welfare Office are things like 'deviant sexual practices' and 'irregular family life', 'frequent over-night visitors that are not part of the family' etc. The wordings are very vague and leave A LOT of room for interpretation as to what amounts to a threat to a child's wellbeing.

Get to know the Child Protection Acts in the state you live VERY CAREFULLY. They are built on a very restrictive nuclear heterosexual family model and child welfare officers are not always the most sympathetic people in what comes to alternative family forms because of the ideology their work is based on.

[Tonberry]

Tonberry, I'm curious and alarmed by what you said about people worrying their children could get taken away. Has this happened? This isn't illegal, is it? Could a well-cared for child really be taken away from its two loving parents just because there was a third person involved?

Sadly, it has happened. Seems to be along the lines of "the parents are obviously irresponsible and can't take care of a child" or "it's traumatizing for children to witness such depravity" and things like that.
I don't know how often it has happened or how high the risk is, but I know it has played a part in a lot of people having children or not, or being open or not.

[LovingRadiance]

It really makes a HUGE difference where you live and who you already associate with.

For example, with our family, the whole family is very supportive and our state is already "the black sheep" of the U.S. in many ways. Many people who move here, do so to get away from the more closed-minded lifestyle expectations and live a more "out of sync with the norm" life.

BUT-it certainly pays to know the risks before you bring an innocent child into them, cover your bases, get your ducks in a row etc. ;)

[Rachelina]

Wow....I had no idea that could happen. I did look up my state's Child Protection Act and didn't see anything that would apply to polyamory. As far as I can tell, the state only gets involved in cases of abuse or neglect, but I'll read it more thoroughly later. There was a section called "Household Members" but it was repealed in 1994; I'm curious what it said.

Loving Radiance, it's so good to hear we're not the only ones attempting this kind of arrangement. Maybe I'll have questions for you as things develop further. Thanks everyone!

[LovingRadiance]

Loving Radiance, it's so good to hear we're not the only ones attempting this kind of arrangement. Maybe I'll have questions for you as things develop further. Thanks everyone!

You're more than welcome to ask me anything. All of my kids have had odd parenting arrangements. ;)
My sister and I raised the oldest alone for the first 6 years. When I married Maca, he became a third parent to her and my sister and I became additional parents to my stepson who was 2.
The youngest boy has had 4 parents in the household his whole life. He's 11. He's been raised with his dad, myself, my sister and my boyfriend as his parents.

Then, the baby, she's the bio-child of boyfriend and I, from home done "in vitro" process. (no sex).

All of them have called me mom, Maca dad, and GG by his given name+"ey", they call Mimi "auntie". But, the way they relate to all of us is as parents.

From a parenting standpoint we're definitely a quad.

It's been a GODSEND at times. :)
One thing we have managed to do very well is parenting the kids together.
:)

(ages 19, 15, 11, soon to be 4)

[Mohegan]

Wow....I had no idea that could happen. I did look up my state's Child Protection Act and didn't see anything that would apply to polyamory. As far as I can tell, the state only gets involved in cases of abuse or neglect, but I'll read it more thoroughly later. There was a section called "Household Members" but it was repealed in 1994; I'm curious what it said.

Loving Radiance, it's so good to hear we're not the only ones attempting this kind of arrangement. Maybe I'll have questions for you as things develop further. Thanks everyone!

The things is, like others have said, it doesn't have to include household members for it to still be a reason to remove the children. You need one person who feels what you are doing is unsafe to the kids in anyway, they need one person at child Welfare to listen to them. One person that agrees with the complaint and your kids are gone, then it's up to a judge.

Which is why it all depends on where you are and the type of people you associate with.

Also keep in mind that some states will atuomaticaly give paternity to the spouse and to contest that you have to go to court. Doesn't matter what you put on the Birth Certificate, in some states, simply being married constitues paternity. So if a male partner other than a husband were to be the father and want legal guardianship, a paternity test and a judge would have to happen.

When I did my Child Welfare training we were taught to really look at the situation and the child. To acknowledge that different cultures/family styles exist and are not neccesarily damaging. Doesn't mean that everyone will see it that way though.

[MrFarFromRight]

Originally Posted by Rachelina
Tonberry, I'm curious and alarmed by what you said about people worrying their children could get taken away. Has this happened? This isn't illegal, is it? Could a well-cared for child really be taken away from its two loving parents just because there was a third person involved?Sadly, it has happened. Seems to be along the lines of "the parents are obviously irresponsible and can't take care of a child" or "it's traumatizing for children to witness such depravity" and things like that.
I don't know how often it has happened or how high the risk is, but I know it has played a part in a lot of people having children or not, or being open or not.Not only sexual matters. And sometimes it really depends not just on the local laws but on who is your Child Welfare officer. I know of a family in Ireland who were accused of burning their child with lit cigarettes. He was taken into care. The parents went to court and argued that those weren't old cigarette burns: they were chilblains! (Remember that this is in cold, wet Ireland.) The child backed up their version and obviously wanted to return home. If they were bad parents - the kind to put out lit cigarettes on their son - why did the State allow them to maintain custody of their other children???

It would have meant "losing face" for the officer to admit that she had made a mistake. And - apparently - for the State to admit that it had put its trust in someone who made such mistakes. So - to save face!!! - a child was kept in care FOR YEARS... until that Child Welfare officer retired, and the boy was allowed by her successor to return to his family.

Of course it helped to complicate the matter that the family were working class, alternative life-style, political activists...

The bottom line is: the State can do any thing they bloody well want. If that is going to stop you from living the life you choose to live, that's one way they win (by default). Sheeple...

Just be aware... and be careful.

[Rachelina]

Wow, I'm still amazed that it's even a remote possibility that a child could be taken away because she has three loving parents instead of two. Unbelievable. Really I had been more interested in advice on the emotional dynamics of this kind of situation, but I'm glad you all opened my eyes to the legal aspects, because it had never even crossed my mind. We are in New Hampshire and people here, while conservative, also have a very libertarian streak which I hope will be on our side.

[Lemondrop]

The bottom line is: the State can do any thing they bloody well want. If that is going to stop you from living the life you choose to live, that's one way they win (by default). Sheeple...

Just be aware... and be careful.

Yes, one can argue that you must stand up for your rights or they will be taken away from you. But, in my opinion, when I chose to have children, I chose to take responsibility for their health and well-being. Having them placed in a foster care home is not to their benefit (I find it important to point out that I was abused by a state-certified foster parent who had MANY ON-RECORD complaints that the state ignored, and she was a foster parent for many years after I became an adult), so I must temper my decisions with the knowledge that I am responsible for keeping them in a safe home until they are adults. In the mean time, I try to educate them to stand up for themselves while taking care of the people to whom they are responsible. Sadly, life is not black and white, and sometimes you must make compromises for the ones you love. If it looks like a fight that might end up with my children taken away, then we will find another way. *I can fight this fight when it will not harm the ones I love and who have no ability to walk away from the fight.*

[BlackUnicorn]

I found something RP mentioned in another thread (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9721) very intriguing. She described how she and PN took a break from poly while they were having their baby. So my question is; is this something a lot of people do? Taking a break from poly while trying to get with child and rearing them?

I can understand that dating with a newborn is logistically difficult, but this is actually a second time I hear a couple making a conscious decision to stop exploring poly alltogether when the children are very young.

I'm interested in hearing people's experiences as to dating/not dating while having a child in a (previously) poly couple.

[NeonKaos]

I suggest searching for posts by XYZ123 and Vandalin. They both have stories that are along the lines of what you're asking for, but seeiing as how they both you know, have more children now and are kind of busy, they haven't been on here much recently.

And of course there's always redpepper.

[Rachelina]

I found something RP mentioned in another thread (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=9721) very intriguing. She described how she and PN took a break from poly while they were having their baby. So my question is; is this something a lot of people do? Taking a break from poly while trying to get with child and rearing them?


We seem to be doing the opposite - our girl is scheduled to arrive shortly before our baby is due (she is long distance now). I do worry that it will be a lot of change to adjust to at once. On the other hand, it will be great to have an extra person around to help with the baby and the household, not to mention much-needed female companionship for me. I can see why people would want to take a break from dating, but in our case we are all committed to each other already so it doesn't make sense to take a break.

[LovingRadiance]

I can see why people would want to take a break from dating, but in our case we are all committed to each other already so it doesn't make sense to take a break.

That would be a logistical nightmare in our life. I've always had my nearest and dearest friends as "family" and they've been a GODSEND with raising my children.

[Athena]

I think it depends on where you are at relationshipwise. If you aren't in any active relationships when baby arrives, it is such a lifechanging event that you may not have energy at least during the first few months. However, as you adjust you figure out how to go back to having a bit of a social life, though it takes more planning than before.

[SourGirl]

*Raises hand*

@ BlackUnicorn,

We took a break.
Mind you, 10 yrs ago, we weren`t in a 'poly' or open relationship so to speak. We called it 'exclusive swinging' :rolleyes:

Poly was a word associated with those misfit polygamists,(in our minds back then) and we didn't want to be associated that way.

When I became pregnant with my daughter, ( not long after losing a baby at 5 months gestation) I pulled away. Wanted to do things 'right'. I was scared of being caught, outed, whatever. Scared something I did, caused my loss.

So it was my doing. Of course it didn`t make sense in hindsight. I was grieving, and made choices that were permanent.


If I knew then what I know now,... I would of kept the relationships going, and given the people we cared about, a chance to prove they were capable, trustworthy people, who wouldn't make silly mistakes at our expense.

I didn`t give them that chance. Most definitely,..my bad. :o

So today,..we still have no wish to be outed, or in the open. That will always be. However, we give people a chance to prove they are on board with us. If it`s not quite fitting right,..there are other options, and we can date away from home. :)

[redpepper]

We had no relationships going on when we got pregnant with our boy and he was born. He was our relationship. We felt that we couldn't justify giving our time to others and taking it from him. We were way into attachment parenting and this was part of it for us. He didn't leave me until he was over a year (LB and I were in one bed, PN in another) and I breast fed him until he was three. I had barely room for PN in my life at the time. I'm glad we did it that way, because all the literature and my gut was right, this boy needed all I gave him in the way of attention, attachment, and time. It was so worth it.

I think if there was someone like Mono in my life back then, they would of been a part of that. Any part of my immediate family would be. I just wouldn't and didn't start something new with anyone. It wouldn't of been fair to them really and my head wasn't in it at all.

[BlackUnicorn]

Yep, the breast-feeding part, while not exactly a problem, is a bit of a challenge right now, because when the baby needs to eat, Mum is the only one who can provide atm. But on the other hand, it's not really time away from the kids Mrs. needs right now but time away from housework to spend with the kids, and I am more than happy to provide!

[foxypoly]

My husband and i have always dated girls and had some relationships lasting up to 6 months but it has always been hidden from the kids. We are now dating a girl and want her to move in with us. Our biggest concern is our 8 year old and 6 year old and the ? about why we all sleep in the same room. can anyone give me some advice. THANKS

[NeonKaos]

"Because we're grown-ups, and grown-ups can sleep wherever they want. When you're a grown-up, you can sleep wherever YOU want."

[AutumnalTone]

Keep it simple. Folks seem to mess things up by trying to give children much more information than they need or can process. Just tell them that you three like to sleep in the same room and that they'll be able to decide on their own sleeping arrangements when they're adults.

[redpepper]

My 8 year old hasn't asked anything, I don't think he thinks about it. Have they asked? Or are you assuming they want to know. If they don't ask then don't say anything I think, and act like its normal. Kids are confident in the adults in their lives if they remain constant and are comfortable with their choices. If you aren't then "faking it until you make it" is okay too.

[MrFarFromRight]

Yep, the breast-feeding part, while not exactly a problem, is a bit of a challenge right now, because when the baby needs to eat, Mum is the only one who can provide atm.My reply to this got moved (twice - first creating its own thread, then into the thread "breastfeeding"). It pointed out that other women - even women who have never had children - can, in fact, breastfeed. It's now here (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=81444#post81444). It has - in turn - been commented on (one comment dealing with the surprise of a lover to find her girlfriend lactating).

While I can understand the move, I think it's also pertinent information to this thread about children, so that's why I'm posting this. My point is that if you really want to get implicated, if the mother is willing to let you share this intimacy with her child (some might want to reserve this bond for themselves: others might be VERY happy about not being the only one "on call" [a chance to sleep right through the night now and then!!!]), then it is possible...

[LovingRadiance]

Honestly, my kids (19, 15, 11, 4) haven't asked about why we sleep the way we do. They are AWARE that the sleeping arrangements changed a little over a year ago, but they never cared. It's CERTAINLY not secret and the youngest has commented that I have two rooms-but I just smiled and laughed with her that yes I do and if she wants two when she's grown up she can do that too.

Mostly-like RP said, they don't care if you are comfortable and content with the dynamic-they will be too.