What is this "lifestyle" you mention?

[AutumnalTone]

Seriiously, folks. I keep seeing references to some supposed poly "lifestyle" and I simply don't understand it. The only thing polyfolk can expect to have in common with other polyfolk is that they engage in multiple romantic relationships. That's it.

I have to wonder what sort of things I'd have to be doing to qualify for this "lifestyle" that keeps getting mentioned. Attend potlucks every second Thursday evening? Attend an annual Many Partners Ball? Buy a pair of assless chaps for parades? Join a fundamentalist religious cult?

What is this "lifestyle" supposed to be?

As far as I can see, loving multiple people is in no fashion linked to any lifestyle. One can have multiple relationships while living in a small rural town or in the 'burbs or in a city. One can have two or three or twelve partners. One can travel far and wide regularly or one can stay at home. One can dress in the latest styles or old jeans and a t shirt. One can ride motorcycles or race hot rods or eschew motor vehicles for a favorite bicycle.

What is it?

[nycindie]

I agree!

I was going to respond to someone's reference to a "poly lifestyle" today, as a matter of fact. It actually made me go and look up the word lifestyle, just to make sure I wasn't overreacting.

According to Dictionary.com: "the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group."

From my trusty ol' American Heritage dictionary: "A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes or values of a person or group."

Basically, it's a manner of living, but there are so many varying lifestyles of people who practice polyamory that it truly is impossible to define what a polyamorous lifestyle would be. How poly is practiced depends on the individuals involved, and there is no One True Way and, therefore, no poly lifestyle.

I often do hear people refer to poly as a "lovestyle," though. What do you think of that term? It kinda bugs me, too.

[AutumnalTone]

From my trusty ol' American Heritage dictionary: "A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes or values of a person or group."


About the only thing in common among polyfolk is the insistence on being forthright and honest with all partners. As that's also a trait shared by many monofolk, it's not really something on which to hang a "lifestyle."


I often do hear people refer to poly as a "lovestyle," though. What do you think of that term? It kinda bugs me, too.

I don't find that term accurate or useful, either. Polyfolk don't love any differently than monofolk--we just allow for loving more than one romantic partner at a time.

I suspect that the urge for people to try to set off polyamory as something substantively different than mono romance works to the detriment of polyfolk. Claiming poly is a lifestyle or lovestyle cheapens poly in much the same way that saying homosexuality is merely a lifestyle or lovestyle, something that can be readily discarded.

[nycindie]

I know Ariakas has referred to the "poly machine" more than once on these boards. I think that perhaps calling polyamory a lifestyle or lovestyle is a way of pandering to this machine, or some misguided way to feel included in something bigger, rather than acknowledging that it's all up to us as individuals to define what poly means for us and creating the lives we want to live polyamorously, based on who we are. Maybe there's some fear connected to its use of those words. Does that make sense?

[detritus]

I know Ariakas has referred to the "poly machine" more than once on these boards. I think that perhaps calling polyamory a lifestyle or lovestyle is a way of pandering to this machine, or some misguided way to feel included in something bigger, rather than acknowledging that it's all up to us as individuals to define what poly means for us and creating the lives we want to live polyamorously, based on who we are. Maybe there's some fear connected to its use of those words. Does that make sense?

I think this makes a lot of sense. I know a lot of my unease in opening up my relationship is feeling very ungrounded and that there are no relationship "rules of thumb" to look toward. In a mono relationship, there are some basic guidelines like the "third date rule" or how long is normal to wait before moving in together, etc, etc. There's a standard trajectory that the relationship "should" follow. Even if you don't follow those rules, you know when you are breaking them and what that signifies.

Poly relationships are so outside the normal relationship storyline that it feels like none of those basic rules apply and that you are flying blind. It can feel overwhelming, especially when you are new to it. Even if you come to realize that the freedom is a good thing, I think it's understandable to want to identify some group or set of values that you can belong to and take your cues from. Even if there is no real poly lifestyle out there, the idea of one can be comforting.

Even if I think "lifestyle" is a poor choice of words, I don't think the idea of a poly culture is all nonsense. A shared unique vocabulary is a strong indication of a unique subculture. I doubt words like "compersion" or "metamour" would be understood by most non-poly people.

[BlackUnicorn]

...between people in the 'lifestyle' and those who are just curious :p!

I just refer to people as 'not in the lifestyle' to mean they are people who don't identify as polyamorous (until perhaps now).

In my blog I berated myself for flirting with Sweetheart although I knew full well that he was 'not in the life(style)' with his wife. So no potlucks necessary :D, what I wanted to convey was that they had been mostly monogamous thus far and are currently in-transition. A whole different set of issues to dating someone who is 'in the lifestyle' and looking for new partners with the full consent and oft enthusiasm of their current partner(s).

I welcome any suggestions that would convey the same difference but would set fewer people off.

After all, BDSM folks have the 'scene'. Can we have something similar?

[Hades36]

I think using the term "lifestyle" or "culture" is fine, at least for me.

I mean, why not? We use those words to describe everything else in society. I have friends that talk about the "Bohemian lifestyle" or the "vegetarian lifestyle" or the "gay culture" or "Black culture" or "liberal culture" or "geek culture" or how being a professional athlete creates a whole different lifestyle than, say, being a computer programmer.

For myself, I disagree that the only thing that makes poly people different than mono people is that poly people allow for more loving relationships. For me, just the fact of allowing for more loving relationships and partners also denotes a radically different way of viewing the world and living in society than what I have always been used to; on a real practical level, I don't understand how me and PLove welcoming new people and their energy into our lives would NOT change our lifestyle in some pretty major ways. To me, its like saying that the only difference between a social conservative and a liberal is how they vote.

Who I love, how I love, what I love, and how I form partnerships all speak volumes about how I live in the world. Again, this is my take on the words for myself and how I understand them. Not saying that lifestyles and cultures don't overlap or blend but there's a reason why we have the words "culture shock", "culture war" and "lifestyle changes" in common parlance.

[AutumnalTone]

I just refer to people as 'not in the lifestyle' to mean they are people who don't identify as polyamorous (until perhaps now).


Then speak of polyfolk and monofolk. Or use some other accurate description.


After all, BDSM folks have the 'scene'. Can we have something similar?

BDSM folks have an actual scene, complete with scheduled play parties as an integral part of what they do. They also share a set of expectations regarding their play activities. I'm unconvinced that there's anything involved with poly that even comes close to being a similar "scene."

[BlackUnicorn]

Then speak of polyfolk and monofolk. Or use some other accurate description.

Hmm, as in 'I berated myself over starting to flirt with someone who was monofolk'? What if they are poly but are living monogamously? 'I berated myself over starting to flirt with someone who was living monogamously'? 'Someone who was not living polyamorously'?

That's why I ended up with 'lifestyle'.

I think there is also a local polyscene in the sense of scheduled activities. So maybe local polyscene and people who live polyamorously vs. people who don't live polyamorously (PWDLPA) :p?

[AutumnalTone]

I mean, why not? We use those words to describe everything else in society. I have friends that talk about the "Bohemian lifestyle" or the "vegetarian lifestyle" or the "gay culture" or "Black culture" or "liberal culture" or "geek culture" or how being a professional athlete creates a whole different lifestyle than, say, being a computer programmer.


And vegetarian friends of mine would laugh at the notion that being vegetarian involves some specific lifestyle. That's like saying having a sodium restriction involves a lifestyle--and I can attest that there is no shared lifestyle among those us who have sodium-restricted diets. Just because some folks use terms indiscriminately doesn't mean there's any merit to such use. Using the sort of reasoning involved in that misuse, one could claim that people who prefer pecan pie share a lifestyle.


For myself, I disagree that the only thing that makes poly people different than mono people is that poly people allow for more loving relationships. For me, just the fact of allowing for more loving relationships and partners also denotes a radically different way of viewing the world and living in society than what I have always been used to; on a real practical level, I don't understand how me and PLove welcoming new people and their energy into our lives would NOT change our lifestyle in some pretty major ways. To me, its like saying that the only difference between a social conservative and a liberal is how they vote.


I don't doubt that it seems radically different for you. From my perspective, no, there's no major difference. I've met enough polyfolk to realize that there really isn't much difference between poly and mono, and certainly not enough based on just the number of partners to claim a "lifestyle" is involved.

I'd like to know what, exactly, are the defining characteristics of our supposed lifestyle. It'll have to involve something beyond being open to multiple romantic relationships, as that in itself doesn't provide enough on which to hang the concept. There would have to be more.

Who I love, how I love, what I love, and how I form partnerships all speak volumes about how I live in the world.

That, however, doesn't speak to any supposed lifestyle that is shared by most polyfolk. A "lifestyle" in the sense being bandied about is about characteristics shared by many, not by a personal way of living. Your person lifestyle is not a group lifestyle.

[disappearingpoet]

After all, BDSM folks have the 'scene'. Can we have something similar?

Can I have both? :}

I think that in my household, as a family, we have a poly lifestyle... because that's our household. Most things I define individually. Kinky, but not necessarily "in scene" in some ways. Gay, but not really a part of "gay culture," etc. I just be me, and that works out pretty well.

[Hades36]

Just thought of a really critical question: what's happened in your life to make this such a hot button for you? Your gripes about semantics are great for debate but is that really what you're asking, is that really what's eating at you? Just seems you're really frustrated over...um...words? I'm always open to having a discussion about what's really prompting your question. I mean, if its really just about semantics, then my feeling is that we all have a right to call it whatever we want, so that seems like a dead end.

[NeonKaos]

I thought it was a valid question because poly involves doing whatever you do anyway (hiking, biking, fishing, camping, etc.) and simply being open to being in love with more people. I hardly ever hear people referring to monogamy as a "lifestyle". I have heard swingers refer to swinging as "the lifestyle". being mono or poly is simply part of who you are and not really contingent on what you DO. So therein lies the distinction.

[Hades36]

Well, my point is, we're debating why people use a certain word? Why? What's the larger, demonstrated impact that the word has on your life or world? Words only mean what we make them mean, anyways, so...shrug...guess I was looking to deep into it.

[nycindie]

Just thought of a really critical question: what's happened in your life to make this such a hot button for you? Your gripes about semantics are great for debate but is that really what you're asking, is that really what's eating at you? Just seems you're really frustrated over...um...words? I'm always open to having a discussion about what's really prompting your question. I mean, if its really just about semantics, then my feeling is that we all have a right to call it whatever we want, so that seems like a dead end.


Why say anyone is "really frustrated" or "griping" just for challenging a term and how it is used? Asking a question about why a term is used is not proclaiming it a "hot button" topic. It is asking a question. The thread serves to shed light on an inaccurate use of language. Such inaccuracies can lead to misunderstandings and misconceptions.

People who assume that there is a defined polyamorous lifestyle when there is not, could perhaps make choices in their lives based on that assumption which then could be detrimental to them, such as going along with a practice that they believe is part of "the lifestyle" they have chosen rather than determining for themselves how to work out the details of polyamory and make it fit into the lifestyle they already lead or wish to lead. Questioning the language is important -- is the same as when people who identify as "childfree" point out the distinction between using that word and using "childless." There are valid reasons for such clarification.

A lifestyle is not a culture is not a scene.

There is no one polyamorous lifestyle. Though there are many traits or practices shared among polyamorists in how they conduct their lives, there is nothing that can be said to be shared by every polyamorist other than the acceptance of the belief that a person can love more than one. People in a wide range of lifestyles practice polyamory.

[NeonKaos]

Well, my point is, we're debating why people use a certain word? Why? What's the larger, demonstrated impact that the word has on your life or world? Words only mean what we make them mean, anyways, so...shrug...guess I was looking to deep into it.



"the word" has very little to no impact on my life and world.

I don't identify as "poly" anywhere except on internet forums such as this one. I don't like explaining "the poly lifestyle" to people because there is no such thing as "the poly lifestyle". It's not something I think of as defining my life. I don't say "hi I'm Neon, and I'm polyamorous", but I do tell my closest friends that I have a boyfriend and my husband knows and is ok with it, and he's "allowed" to see other people too. Not sure how that would constitute a "lifestyle".

[Hades36]

Damn that Wikipedia! We better update their information, then, because they are misleading a whole lot of people. I mean, according to them, we have symbols, special terms, values, even a few parades under the belt.

[NeonKaos]

Questioning the language is important -- is the same as when people who identify as "childfree" point out the distinction between using that word and using "childless." There are valid reasons for such clarification.


Ooh YES, we are always getting that on the CF forums too, and it's one of my pet-peeves. "the Child-free lifestyle". People from LOTS of different "walks of life", if you will, choose to not have children for many different reasons, and we hardly fit into a certain "lifestyle". Some of us are very social, others are misanthropes, just like on this site. We share a common ground for a specific aspect of our personalities or LIFESTYLE CHOICES we have made, but just because someone is child-free, or HAS CHILDREN, doesn't mean either group shares a common LIFESTYLE.

Great example NYC. I should have come up with that one a lot sooner but I've had an unusually busy social life this weekend, and not because of my "poly lifestyle" (this time). It was because of my roller-derby lifestyle and my hanging-out-with-friends-visiting-from-out-of-town lifestyle. :cool:

[nycindie]

Damn that Wikipedia! We better update their information, then, because they are misleading a whole lot of people. I mean, according to them, we have symbols, special terms, values, even a few parades under the belt.

Wikipedia is a user-contributed ever-changing collection of articles that is always full of inconsistencies and inaccuracies. It is generally known not to be relied upon, but simply a good starting point to begin research if you have the patience to verify what is found there. I am a regular contributor to Wikipedia and I cannot begin to tell you how much cleaning up it requires on a regular basis because anyone can mess up an article with bullshit.

And who the hell is "we," exactly? See what a slippery slope this is?

[NeonKaos]

Damn that Wikipedia! We better update their information, then, because they are misleading a whole lot of people. I mean, according to them, we have symbols, special terms, values, even a few parades under the belt.


Wiki IS a whole lot of people misleading a whole lot of other people.

I read that if students use Wikipedia as a reference on a college term-paper, they will get an F.

[disappearingpoet]

I hardly ever hear people referring to monogamy as a "lifestyle".

I do. ;} Maybe I shouldn't, but it usually comes up when someone chews on me for how my relationships are (eg. "So, you're just cheating on each other?") I end up patting them on the head and saying that I support their right to choose a monogamous lifestyle, but that it doesn't work for me.

[Hades36]

In the end, do any of us have a right to tell someone they can or cannot use a certain word to describe their life? And, if we do have that right, who gave it to us? As an English teacher, I have spent hours, days, weeks, and years explaining to students the subjectivity of language. So its all context and we know that, already. Whether I refer to being a geek as living a geek lifestyle or not means nothing except what someone else decides it means to them, which still means very little to me since its my life and my personal choice to use the term. While I don't refer to myself as being in a poly lifestyle, I don't give people who do a hassle over it. Not my place, not my right. All I really have a right to do is decide how I describe myself and hope people get it.

[nycindie]

No one here has hassled anyone or told them what words to use. This is just a discussion.

[Hades36]

Great, then we're all in agreement and I can go back to drinking. Happy Easter!

[NeonKaos]

I do. ;} Maybe I shouldn't, but it usually comes up when someone chews on me for how my relationships are (eg. "So, you're just cheating on each other?") I end up patting them on the head and saying that I support their right to choose a monogamous lifestyle, but that it doesn't work for me.

I can see it being referred to that way by people who are unfamiliar with other relationship styles, but that does not mean that IS "a lifestyle". There may be people on this forum who consider themselves to have "a poly lifestyle", but that does not mean that there is "a" or "the" poly lifestyle for everyone who is involved in more than one lover-ly relationship.

[nycindie]

Great, then we're all in agreement and I can go back to drinking. Happy Easter!

Oh, is agreement the goal? I didn't realize...

[Hades36]

Not really, I'm not even sure why I started posting on this thread. Probably because I am an English teacher and think its fascinating how people use and interact with language, how important it becomes that certain words are used and others are avoided, what it all means to them. Always interesting, especially on the Internet. Fascinating.

[disappearingpoet]

I can see it being referred to that way by people who are unfamiliar with other relationship styles, but that does not mean that IS "a lifestyle". There may be people on this forum who consider themselves to have "a poly lifestyle", but that does not mean that there is "a" or "the" poly lifestyle for everyone who is involved in more than one lover-ly relationship.

Mostly I just do that to be a butthead. I do the same if someone is tiptoeing around the fact that I 'choose' to be gay. I let them know that I support their right to choose to be straight, but that it doesn't work for me. :} The most common response is, "But... that's not really a lifestyle/choice."

Haha, no, it's not.

[MrFarFromRight]

Before people accuse me of NOT doing it, let me assure you that I HAVE read through the whole of this thread before adding my 2p. However, I choose to quote from the very first 2 posts:Seriiously, folks. I keep seeing references to some supposed poly "lifestyle" and I simply don't understand it. The only thing polyfolk can expect to have in common with other polyfolk is that they engage in multiple romantic relationships. That's it.

I have to wonder what sort of things I'd have to be doing to qualify for this "lifestyle" that keeps getting mentioned. Attend potlucks every second Thursday evening? Attend an annual Many Partners Ball? Buy a pair of assless chaps for parades? Join a fundamentalist religious cult?
[...]
One can have multiple relationships while living in a small rural town or in the 'burbs or in a city. One can have two or three or twelve partners. One can travel far and wide regularly or one can stay at home. One can dress in the latest styles or old jeans and a t shirt. One can ride motorcycles or race hot rods or eschew motor vehicles for a favorite bicycle.Tell me something: Is "dressing in the latest styles" a lifestyle, as far as you're concerned? Is "riding motorcycles"? Is "living in a small rural town"?

Just WHAT - AFAYC - constitutes a "lifestyle"?
Whether or not I live in a small rural town or not, whether I dress in the latest styles or not, whether I ride motorcycles or not... NONE of these questions are as important to me as whether I choose to live my life in such a way that I REFUSE to limit another person A's freedom to love WHOMEVER they want, B+C+D... (whether I am personally emotionally involved with A or not, whether I think that B is an absolute arsehole or not). I also REFUSE to allow A - or B,C,D... - the power over me to tell me whom I'm allowed to love.

That's a fundamental question for me - the freedom to love whomever (and however many) one wants. I allow that freedom. I demand that freedom for myself. I live my life according to those principles.

Seems like a pretty good candidate for being called a lifestyle to me.

A lifestyle DOESN'T mean that every single member who follows it has to be exactly like every other, or do everything that every other member does. A "small rural town" lifestyle doesn't OBLIGE you to watch Andy Griffith re-runs every night.

So wear your religious-cult-approved arseless chaps to your bi-monthly potlucks... or not. It's all (as the Germans would say) Scheiss Egal to me. Polyamory isn't.According to Dictionary.com: "the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group."

From my trusty ol' American Heritage dictionary: "A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes or values of a person or group."A concept doesn't have to match up with every single word in a dictionary definition to qualify for acceptance as a valid example of the word being defined.

Sorry, nycindie, but you're messing here with Mister Pedant Man "CHANG!!! KAPOW!!!" Let's rip apart your first definition: "the habits, attitudes, tastes, moral standards, economic level, etc., that together constitute the mode of living of an individual or group." Notice that word "attitudes"? Would you agree that not EVERYBODY of a randomly-chosen (non-poly) "lifestyle" HAS to have the same "economic level" to qualify? How about "tastes"? Does the fact that I can't stand the colour green disqualify me from a hippy lifestyle? My ATTITUDE towards the freedom of loving whom (and however many) one chooses to, added to the fact that I put my principles into practice, allows me to talk about my "polyamorous lifestyle". (I believe that this attitude is shared by most sincerely polyamorous people. Hence a possible common "polyamory lifestyle".)

On to your 2nd chosen definition: "A way of life or style of living that reflects the attitudes or values of a person or group." Let me draw your attention to that little word "or". It's used 3 times. So if I state that my polyamory is "A way of life [...] that reflects the attitudes [...] of a person (me) [...]" [not to mention my values], how can you argue with my saying that - for me - polyamory is a lifestyle? You wanna argue with Mister Pedant Man AND your "trusty ol' American Heritage dictionary"???

[NeonKaos]

Calm down and have a chill-pill. No one is "messing" with you or your multiple personalities. Looks like your imaginary friend is "messing" with NYC from here.

[MrFarFromRight]

Calm down and have a chill-pill. No one is "messing" with you or your multiple personalities. Looks like your imaginary friend is "messing" with NYC from here.I'm as chilled as you like. I don't get het up about other people choosing to use words like "lifestyle" if they so wish. And you're rather stating the obvious. Of COURSE Mister Pedant Man is messing with NYC! Do you honestly believe that anybody could use an identity like Mister Pedant Man without being tongue in cheek (and poking fun at themselves at the same time)??? I'm laughing about such a storm brewing in such a small teacup.

It's not me that needs chill-pills.

[NeonKaos]

So no one can poke fun at you but you?

I'll write that on my list of important things to not forget as soon as i'm through poking fun at you.

[nycindie]

Mister, while for you, polyamory is a lifestyle, there is no one-size-fits-all polyamorous lifestyle. There just isn't. One person can call their version of polyamory a lifestyle and yet how they practice polyamory could be widely different from how another person practices polyamory. So where is the lifestyle? It would be more appropriate to say you live a lifestyle which includes polyamory, or simply that you have polyamorous relationships in your life. But a lifestyle? What would that "style" of life look like, to be polyamorous, when there are so many ways to do it?

[AutumnalTone]

... allows me to talk about my "polyamorous lifestyle". (I believe that this attitude is shared by most sincerely polyamorous people. Hence a possible common "polyamory lifestyle".)


You can speak of your personal lifestyle all you wish and that doesn't make for a "lifestyle" shared by polyfolk. This freedom to choose how many you love is also shared by monofolk--one doesn't have to be granted that as an additional freedom to be poly.

As I said before, I'm waiting to see a description of this supposed "poly lifestyle."

I find the very notion that such exists to be detrimental to polyfolk in general. Those just beginning to wrap their heads around the idea of multiple romances being possible can be led to believe there is some particular way to do things beyond developing the same relationship skills that apply in healthy mono couplings. The notion of there being some "poly lifestyle" that folk adopt serves to reinforce the notion among scornful mono folk that polyamory is something that is the result of a whim and not worthy of respect; such drives prejudice and discrimination, as can be seen by that line of reasoning being used with regard to gay folk.

In this thread I see some "but poly is part of MY lifestyle so it has to be A 'Lifestyle.'" Poly is also part of my lifestyle and I doubt there's much in common between their lives and mine other than we do poly and come to this set of boards. In other words, we share no "lifestyle" and simply do poly as part of our personal lifestyles.

[MrFarFromRight]

So no one can poke fun at you but you?

I'll write that on my list of important things to not forget as soon as i'm through poking fun at you.I encourage people to poke fun at me! I'm a semi-professional clown. Were you poking fun at me? Sorry! I didn't understand that. It seemed to me that you thought I really needed a "chill-pill" and that you were criticising me for "messing" with NYC. Like one of your earlier replies to me ( http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7537&highlight=GEEZUS+millisecond&page=3 ) I guess that I just don't understand your sense of humour. My loss...

[Could you give me a little help here by including :rolleyes:s, :ps, ;)s, or :Ds? ... Or maybe inventing an obviously ridiculous super-hero alter ego?]

[MrFarFromRight]

Mister, while for you, polyamory is a lifestyle, there is no one-size-fits-all polyamorous lifestyle. There just isn't. One person can call their version of polyamory a lifestyle and yet how they practice polyamory could be widely different from how another person practices polyamory. So where is the lifestyle? It would be more appropriate to say you live a lifestyle which includes polyamory, or simply that you have polyamorous relationships in your life. But a lifestyle? What would that "style" of life look like, to be polyamorous, when there are so many ways to do it?nycindie, while for some people, small-town rural living is a lifestyle, there is no one-size-fits-all small-town rural lifestyle. There just isn't. One person can call their version of small-town rural a lifestyle and yet how they practice small-town rural could be widely different from how another person practices small-town rural. So where is the lifestyle? It would be more appropriate to say you live a lifestyle which includes small-town rural, or simply that you have small-town rural relationships in your life. But a lifestyle? What would that "style" of life look like, to live in a small, rural town, when there are so many ways to do it?:p:p:p

This goes for Autumna Tone, as well, so I don't have to reply to your comment separately. You never answered my question: AFAYAC, WHAT constitutes a life-style?

As I said before, I'm waiting to see a description of this supposed "small-town rural lifestyle."

I find the very notion that such exists to be detrimental to small-town rural folk in general.

AT and NYCI: If the 2 of you don't like the expression "life-style", I suggest that you complain to the publishers of dictionaries.

If you only object to it being used by certain polys to talk about their life choices, I suggest that you both (and others) take a deep breath and calm down:):). There are some of us who will certainly continue to use it as a shortened version of more round-about descriptions of what we mean.

p.s. I'm also guilty of having used that awful expression "lovestyle"!:eek:

[nycindie]

If you only object to it being used by certain polys to talk about their life choices, I suggest that you both (and others) take a deep breath and calm down:):).

Last I checked, I am breathing and I am calm.

[MrFarFromRight]

Last I checked, I am breathing and I am calm.NYCI: I'm glad to read it! p.s. Now you've got TWO signature quotes that I really like!

[redpepper]

I wonder if the term "lifestyle" came out of the swingers turned poly that are in the community; the word I tend to use most often. I use "community I think because communities to me can be made up of many different people and different takes on a similar thing. I am part of the burlesque community also, but we all have a different take on that and come together with the same interest, love for what we do and a love for each other because of it. It makes me feel as if I belong when I say I am in a community of like minded people.

I have noted a few people out there in my life that are not interested in any of it. They don't like to talk about poly at all because of the over use of definitions and descriptions. They claim that they are just dating and everyone knows each other. It has been quite refreshing actually. I totally get it. I still like using the language that has come out of poly as a way of transcending what limited language there is because of our monogamous culture. Yes culture. Don't ask me why, it just works for me. I like the fact that when I speak to people that are poly, they know what I am talking about because of the language that has come out as a necessity.

Really, like anything, we all have our take. I love that we even have space to question such things... personally, not because I want to see it changed, just because its interesting. :)

[nycindie]

I still like using the language that has come out of poly as a way of transcending what limited language there is because of our monogamous culture. Yes culture.

The term "monogamous culture" is not incorrect. Western culture has been primarily monogamous, hence a monogamous culture. But a culture is not a lifestyle.

A culture is a collective of individuals who share certain values that connect them, and adhere to those values to be accepted as part of that collective or group. Such values can be language, mode of dress, sexual practices, and so on. We are usually enculturated by others who pass on their values and teach us to accept them in order to fit into the culture. We can leave behind a culture that no longer works for us and adopt a new one, but what makes a culture are the values shared by the group, which are required to belong to that group. And belonging is very important to cultures, whether that culture operates in a larger society, or within the workplace ("corporate culture").

A lifestyle is something we create individually. It simply is a way of living that reflects who we are. It certainly can include elements of the culture in which we belong, or grew up in, but lifestyle is self-determined. That's a huge difference. And why there is no definitive polyamorous lifestyle, as I see it.

[BlackUnicorn]

Hmm, I actually have to disagree with Indie, I thought the point of AT's post was that 1) he is irritated by the used of 'THE lifestyle' in reference to polyamory, and 2) he believes a more accurate, neutral (?) term should be used. Thus I took this to be a discussion thread where we have 1) a problem and 2) try to solve it to everyone's mutual delight. I am more than happy to change my use of language on this forum to make it more pleasurable for others to read.

... being mono or poly is simply part of who you are and not really contingent on what you DO. So therein lies the distinction.

Maybe not. I personally think that besides there being a mono/poly spectrum, there is a identity/practice spectrum. So it is a different thing to identify as mono/poly and a different thing to practice it. My previous use of the word 'lifestyle' is synonymous with the 'practice' end of the spectrum. You can DO polyamory, and people who DO polyamory tend to have different set of problems when forming new relationship than people who maybe ARE poly but DON'T DO poly.

There may be people on this forum who consider themselves to have "a poly lifestyle", but that does not mean that there is "a" or "the" poly lifestyle for everyone who is involved in more than one lover-ly relationship.

Hmm, so that is what 'the lifestyle' means? English is not my first language and I would never suggest that my way of doing things is THE way to do it. I am sorry if I gave somebody that impression. I tend to use words like 'whore' or 'dyke' with no ill meaning, and have been called out on how, even if a word is not disrespectful or hurtful in the sense I use it, that the same word has so much cultural baggage that it cannot be used free from those connotations. So in that light, I understand people's irritation with 'THE lifestyle' in reference to poly.

It would be more appropriate to say you live a lifestyle which includes polyamory, or simply that you have polyamorous relationships in your life.

Thanks Indie, a really good suggestion! I will accommodate that in my further posts.

I wonder if the term "lifestyle" came out of the swingers turned poly that are in the community; the word I tend to use most often. I use "community I think because communities to me can be made up of many different people and different takes on a similar thing. I am part of the burlesque community also, but we all have a different take on that and come together with the same interest, love for what we do and a love for each other because of it. It makes me feel as if I belong when I say I am in a community of like minded people.

I like 'community', too! Thanks RP!

A lifestyle is something we create individually. It simply is a way of living that reflects who we are. It certainly can include elements of the culture in which we belong, or grew up in, but lifestyle is self-determined. That's a huge difference. And why there is no definitive polyamorous lifestyle, as I see it.

Full-heartedly agree! Thanks for making me see that my use of language/choice of words was not value-neutral.

[GroundedSpirit]

I always find it interesting how some of the longest and occasionally most heated discussions I see here are around semantics. It's good overall I think because it serves as a reminder not to take anything anyone says (types) too literally - to put forth the extra effort to try to really understand what they are truly SAYING :)

That being said, I agree with some others that no doubt the latching on to the term "lifestyle" comes from several directions including the swinger, alternative, GLBT etc. So unless you were totally new to any/all of those 'scenes' (lifestyles) I can see where use of the term would raise an eyebrow.

Because I think it's as accurate a term as most others. If you are living (or attempting) poly loving then you definitely are involved in a range of things that other people (say monogamous) are not and they become a definite and important part of how you live your "life".
There are conversations that are unique.
There are actions that are unique (sexual, social etc)
There are patterns, language, ways of balancing your days etc that are simply unique to attempting to love others in an open and honest way .

That is "life" and the "style" is unique (even though variations are almost endless). But the one thing all these have in common is that they are NOT terms, actions, attitudes that you find ( to any degree) in monogamous living and thinking. Therefore the generally correct adoption of the term "lifestyle".

Loving many flavors your days most days. It affects the conversations you have, the decisions you make, actions you take. Pretty basic.

GS

[nycindie]

. . . I thought the point of AT's post was that 1) he is irritated by the used of 'THE lifestyle' in reference to polyamory, and 2) he believes a more accurate, neutral (?) term should be used.

I just re-read AT's posts and saw no irritation in them. I think it's funny that some contributors to this thread have said that those of us who challenge the accuracy of using the word "lifestyle" must be "irritated," "griping," "messing with," "frustrated," etc. The fact remains that while one may incorporate polyamorous relationships into their lifestyle, there is no one lifestyle that is specific to polyamory.

[NeonKaos]

Black Unicorn, I read your post as being very defensive, as though the things I said were aimed at things you personally said and the way you said them. If that's not the case, then disregard this post. If it IS the case, I can assure you that I was not thinking of you or any other specific individual on this forum when I composed my earlier messages.

I have re-read my own posts as well as the original post and I do not find that they contain any discernable degree of emotional investment. Furthermore, I would not expect this topic to be a particularly emotionally-charged one. I'm not sure why folks think that a little intellectual masturbation about semantics means that we wish to circumscribe others' use of certain words on the forum.

[NeonKaos]

I just re-read AT's posts and saw no irritation in them. I think it's funny that some contributors to this thread have said that those of us who challenge the accuracy of using the word "lifestyle" must be "irritated," "griping," "messing with," "frustrated," etc. The fact remains that while one may incorporate polyamorous relationships into their lifestyle, there is no one lifestyle that is specific to polyamory.

Me too.

[BlackUnicorn]

Black Unicorn, I read your post as being very defensive, as though the things I said were aimed at things you personally said and the way you said them.

Not at all. I picked your quotes because I liked them/thought they had a good point.

If that's not the case, then disregard this post.

I will :p (okay, I did answer).

[Carma]

I call it a lifestyle -- I had no idea this was a controversial term :confused: Hope no one jumps me for it in the future! :o (This forum can help you develop thicker skin, I tell ya!)

[NeonKaos]

I call it a lifestyle -- I had no idea this was a controversial term :confused: Hope no one jumps me for it in the future! :o (This forum can help you develop thicker skin, I tell ya!)

AT can correct me if I am wrong, but I'll attempt to re-iterate what I think is the thrust of the OP.

It is not that the term "lifestyle" is controversial or offensive. It is that the term "polyamory" is too broad and vague to be described in terms of "a lifestyle" when it comes to applying these terms to a given group of people.

To me it seems more comfortable to use adjectives to describe one's lifestyle, instead of taking a noun and designating it as "a lifestyle". For example, I might say that "I feel better when I lead a physically active lifestyle", but I wouldn't say that "polyamory is my lifestyle".

[AutumnalTone]

AT can correct me if I am wrong, but I'll attempt to re-iterate what I think is the thrust of the OP.

It is not that the term "lifestyle" is controversial or offensive. It is that the term "polyamory" is too broad and vague to be described in terms of "a lifestyle" when it comes to applying these terms to a given group of people.


You've got it. That use of the term is inaccurate and I don't find it useful in the slightest. I think there are better ways to discuss polyamory that don't involve misleading inaccuracy from the outset.

[TruckerPete]

Can someone provide examples of how to use the word lifestyle?

Any I can think of (such as a physically active lifestyle) also have the same problem as a "poly lifestyle". There is not a one true way. (I think there might be nearly as many ways to be physically active as there are ways to be poly! :p)

[MindfulAgony]

Can someone provide examples of how to use the word lifestyle?

Any I can think of (such as a physically active lifestyle) also have the same problem as a "poly lifestyle". There is not a one true way. (I think there might be nearly as many ways to be physically active as there are ways to be poly! :p)

I think this is the root of the problem TP. The term "lifestyle" seems to be rarely used to denote a very specific, life encompassing thing. Even when you do, one still finds endless individual variation. This is the nature of humans, I think.

I don't talk about poly culture (e.g., common values and norms). I'm not sure it applies. When I talk about poly community, I'm usually referring to those who are active in getting together, supporting people as they make the transition and/or deal with inevitable challenges, and those who help bring/keep us together. So, the "poly community" is a very specific subset of those who are leading what we'd call a polyamorous....

...lifestyle :p

Polyamorous lifestyle - in my head - is a specific form of consensual non-monogamy. Like most other things that constitute a "lifestyle" it can't describe most (and not even many) of the attributes of life. But, it does describe a critical dimension (or critical set). In that sense, the diversity doesn't matter if the critical dimension holds.

But, the root issue is that the term "lifestyle" itself is probably just not that useful. It is broad and in-elegant as too much of the English language seems to be. It won't stand on its own as providing sufficient description when modifying a noun. In that sense, it doesn't deserve special treatment.

Calling it a "lifestyle" does one critical thing, which I think is the reason why it sticks and people will continue to use it. It tells us that it is different from the norm or not what you'd expect. In this sense, it is serving it's role well.

[NeonKaos]

Calling it a "lifestyle" does one critical thing, which I think is the reason why it sticks and people will continue to use it. It tells us that it is different from the norm or not what you'd expect. In this sense, it is serving it's role well.


Whoa, dude. :cool:

Nice of you to finally stop by!

[Tonberry]

I don't see a problem with the word "lifestyle" To me, it means the way I lead my life. And being poly affects that, of course it does! Living in a relationship with more than one person is part of my life, part of my "style of life".

Being vegetarian is also a lifestyle, in my opinion. I have to order food differently, shop differently, cook differently, eat differently. All are a big part of my life.

"Lovestyle" similarly doesn't pose a problem to me. It's similar to "lifestyle", but more specific to love, and the way I love (as inm several people at the same time, in my case). It's similar to "eating style" as a more specific term than "lifestyle" for the fact I'm vegetarian.

For me "lifestyle" only means that it affects the way I lead my life. And it does. It does in my relationships, but it also does in the way I see other people, in the way I watch movies or read books ("why couldn't they all end up together?") etc, etc.

I honestly don't think the word needs to mean that everyone who shares that trait needs to be the same in every way. Just that it has an impact on the way you live, and it's hard to argue that romantic relationships don't.

[MindfulAgony]

Whoa, dude. :cool:

Nice of you to finally stop by!

Too busy just being poly to have stopped by sooner :rolleyes:

[MrFarFromRight]

A lifestyle is something we create individually. It simply is a way of living that reflects who we are. It certainly can include elements of the culture in which we belong, or grew up in, but lifestyle is self-determined. That's a huge difference. And why there is no definitive polyamorous lifestyle, as I see it.As far as I know, I have never written in terms of THE definitive polyamorous lifestyle. As far as I can remember, I haven't read any comments by anybody on this board which talked about THE definitive polyamorous lifestyle. If I - or others - write about a polyamorous lifestyle [repeat NYCI's quote: "A lifestyle is something we create individually. It simply is a way of living that reflects who we are."], and I mean that my polyamorous lifestyle is something that I've created individually, a way of living that reflects who I am, I honestly don't understand that some people question my/our usage of the word "lifestyle".

If - furthermore - I believe that
a) a "common lifestyle" of a group of people does NOT oblige the members of that group to act - or believe - identically in every single detail;
b) the true polyamorous (not just somebody who's using "polyamory" to get laid more often) is somebody who believes that we have no right to limit other people's Love (even when those other people are people with whom we are having serious, sexual, loving relationships)... and that NOBODY has the right to limit our Love;
c) the true polyamorous takes these principles to be VERY important, puts them into practice, and allows them to affect the way (s)he relates to ALL other people;
then I think I have the right to speak of a general (general does NOT mean "with strict rules that everyone MUST adhere to [ALL of them]") polyamory lifestyle.

i.e. a lifestyle based on respect for The Other's right to love as and whom they choose, a common lifestyle encompassing a very wide spectrum of relatively unimportant (and very important) details.

I honestly don't understand why (I use this stupid example yet again because, frankly, nobody on here has yet given me a satisfactory answer to this) you have no problem with reading "a small-town rural lifestyle" or "a hippy lifestyle", but argue against the correctness of people writing "a polyamory lifestyle".

I will be happy to read any replies to this question, but I doubt that I'll continue to post on this thread, because I feel that we're going around in circles.

As Wm. Burroughs wrote, and Laurie Anderson sang: "Language is a virus..."

[NeonKaos]

As Wm. Burroughs wrote, and Laurie Anderson sang: "Language is a virus..."


"...from outer space. And hearing your name is better than seeing your face."

But remember, William S. Burroughs was a junkie and a self-proclaimed misogynist, so go ahead and take whatever he said with a grain of salt.

[LovingRadiance]

Well, I read the thread... one eyebrow raised.


All in all, I've reached the end more confused then I thought I was when i started. :rolleyes:

I suppose it all comes down to asking the person whose speaking if (add your paraphrase of their statement) was what they meant, so that you can ensure that whatever concept they're trying to convey is the concept you recieved.

shrug

[Tonberry]

Today I was reading an article in a gaming magazine, and it mentioned the "gaming lifestyle". I thought of this thread.

[AutumnalTone]

I don't see a problem with the word "lifestyle" To me, it means the way I lead my life.


And the personal still doesn't become a general. Your personal lifestyle incorporates polyamory. It is not, however, the polyamory lifestyle. When folks show up here and say something about being curious about "the lifestyle," that is a general reference to an actual lifestyle shared by polyfolk--and there's no such thing.

Outlaw bikers have a lifestyle. To be an outlaw biker, one has to ride a motorcycle, join a club, wear colors, go on club rides, hang with other club members, and so forth. That constitutes an actual lifestyle.

Fishermen in the Bering Sea share a lifestyle that involves long weeks at sea fishing--that applies to all of them and is predictable.

Polyamory is akin to joining the Elks club. One does not speak of the Elks lifestyle, for example, because there's nothing more to being an Elk than joining the club and hanging out at the bar and showing up at occasional social events.

Here's the important part: *Being poly involves less than that.* There's no organization to join. There's no club at which to hang out. There are no club social events.

Yes, polyfolk can go to munches, yet that's not really part of being poly, as one can be poly without ever attending a poly gathering; not true of being an Elk. Yes, polyfolk who know each other in an area can share a favorite bar where they hang out; that's not part of being poly, however.

When folks speak of somebody having a "physically-active lifestyle" or the like, they're speaking of somebody's personal lifestyle--NOT a "lifestyle" shared by a readily-recognized group of people. Nobody says that they're taking up "this lifestyle" when they pick up a pair of running shoes, for the only thing they're likely to have in common with other runners is the fact that they run.

So, again, while individuals have lifestyles that include polyamory, there is no "poly lifestyle" to which people can point or describe. That's much like saying there's a "short-haired lifestyle."

[Ariakas]

When you call something a lifestyle you immediately draw people in to the idea of it being an all encompassing idea. When Poly is simply a relationship style. You love more than one, thats it.

To call it a lifestyle means anyone looking at you, is look at you as an example of polyness, beyond relationships. This is why poly gets attached to hippy/pagan/gamers etc. This becomes a stigma for those of us who are NOT those things.

This also begins to create a poly machine. Beliefs and scripture end up being written and handed out based on ones polyness. Which again shines a light on something that poly is not. It is not a religious movement, it is not a political believe it is not anything. It can be encompassed in those things, but it is not THOSE things specifically.

Poly is my preferred relationship type... not my lifestyle.

[MonoVCPHG]

Poly is my preferred relationship type... not my lifestyle.

Nicely put :)

[nycindie]

And the personal still doesn't become a general. Your personal lifestyle incorporates polyamory. It is not, however, the polyamory lifestyle.

When you call something a lifestyle you immediately draw people in to the idea of it being an all encompassing idea. When Poly is simply a relationship style. You love more than one, thats it. ... Poly is my preferred relationship type... not my lifestyle.

Yes!!! I wonder why this has been so hard for some to grasp.

If a newbie comes here and says, "I want the poly lifestyle! Help me do it!" How would anyone answer that?

Any response would have to pose that the newbie ask themselves what they want and how they see polyamory working for them and fitting into their current lifestyle. Polyamory is just a way to approach relationships, and can be part of a wide range of lifestyles.

[LovingRadiance]

Nycindie,

I don't know why it was hard to grasp.

But Autumn's last post-helped me A LOT with losing my confusion. It was SO MUCH clearer than what I got from reading the whole thread.


Autumn, thanks. :) It makes sense to me now.

I don't think I've ever talked about poly in quite that way anyway-but now I get why it would be frustrating.

As Nycindie pointed out-if someone came asking how to do it, I'd raise an eyebrow and say "hell if I fucking know".
;)

[NeonKaos]

The outlaw bikers vs elks club analogy didnt hurt either.

[MonoVCPHG]

The outlaw bikers vs elks club analogy didnt hurt either.

That pretty much cleared it up for me.

[AutumnalTone]

Autumn, thanks. :) It makes sense to me now.

I don't think I've ever talked about poly in quite that way anyway-but now I get why it would be frustrating.


Now you understand why I scratch my head when I see people refer to a "poly lifestyle."


As Nycindie pointed out-if someone came asking how to do it, I'd raise an eyebrow and say "hell if I fucking know".
;)

I think the best I could offer would be "Be prepared to do some serious work on your own issues!" (He says, after spending the past few weeks wrestling with some issues thought to be long-settled.)

[nycindie]

<sigh>

Seems to be lots of posts here bringing up how to live the "poly lifestyle" lately. It's like people see what they see and think that's the way it is everywhere? I don't know, but I know my lifestyle is vastly different from many others who live polyamorously - so I do find it frustrating when people say they want The Poly Lifestyle.

I wonder why it bugs me so much -- it's almost like grammar and spelling problems to me, LOL.

[Ariakas]

<sigh>

Seems to be lots of posts here bringing up how to live the "poly lifestyle" lately. It's like people see what they see and think that's the way it is everywhere? I don't know, but I know my lifestyle is vastly different from many others who live polyamorously - so I do find it frustrating when people say they want The Poly Lifestyle.

I wonder why it bugs me so much -- it's almost like grammar and spelling problems to me, LOL.

:).. maybe they think of it as lifestyle until they become more in tune with what polyamory is at its simplest?

[Minxxa]

I had someone message me from OKCupid asking if my husband and I were looking for someone "in the lifestyle" (a phrase I detest, BTW, and my husband is not on my profile, except to mention that we're married). I went to the guy's profile, and it was talking about being into Polyandry. I couldn't figure out if he was referring to a woman with multiple husbands, had meant Polyamory and didn't know the difference, or they were swingers.

[TruckerPete]

I had someone message me from OKCupid asking if my husband and I were looking for someone "in the lifestyle" (a phrase I detest, BTW, and my husband is not on my profile, except to mention that we're married). I went to the guy's profile, and it was talking about being into Polyandry. I couldn't figure out if he was referring to a woman with multiple husbands, had meant Polyamory and didn't know the difference, or they were swingers.

Maybe it's some sort of code phrase for something not related to poly at all. And you have to be "in the lifestyle" to be "in the know". :p

[nycindie]

I had someone message me from OKCupid asking if my husband and I were looking for someone "in the lifestyle" (a phrase I detest, BTW, and my husband is not on my profile, except to mention that we're married). I went to the guy's profile, and it was talking about being into Polyandry. I couldn't figure out if he was referring to a woman with multiple husbands, had meant Polyamory and didn't know the difference, or they were swingers.

Ecch, sounds kinda dumb. Did you ask him what lifestyle he was referring to?

[Minxxa]

Maybe it's some sort of code phrase for something not related to poly at all. And you have to be "in the lifestyle" to be "in the know". :p

I'm sure it's super secret and exclusive with a secret handshake and gatherings involving naked people, robes and sacrifices. :)

Ecch, sounds kinda dumb. Did you ask him what lifestyle he was referring to?

No. Maybe I should have. I wasn't sure I wanted to know the answer, though. :)

[Ariakas]

I wonder how often its related to people coming from swinging. Or thinking of poly like a communal loving. Both would be potential "lifestylers"..

people calling it lifestyle doesn't phase me. I just explain it otherwise. Then again I rarely say I am poly. Being open is good enough and covers the bases.

[TruckerPete]

I'm sure it's super secret and exclusive with a secret handshake and gatherings involving naked people, robes and sacrifices. :)

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of "be careful or you'll end up trussed up, hanging from the basement ceiling, gagged, with a carrot shoved up your arse".

I also have an active imagination.

[Terra]

Oops! I realized that I used the term "lifestyle" today when making a post. I'm super new here- my husband and I decided on what we called "an open marriage" a couple of months ago. After doing a lot of reading and pondering, I decided that what I really meant by "open marriage" and who I really am is much closer to polyamory than, say, swinging, so I gravitated towards that definition. When I used the term "lifestyle", it was just shorthand for "the decision to practice a polyamory", or "the realization that I AM polyamorous". "Lifestyle" does kind of have that "swinging" connotation, doesn't it? I know that homophobic people often refer pejoratively to the "gay" lifestyle, and my reaction has always been, "Well, WTF is THAT?"

[Minxxa]

Actually, I was thinking more along the lines of "be careful or you'll end up trussed up, hanging from the basement ceiling, gagged, with a carrot shoved up your arse".

I also have an active imagination.

No kidding! :) quite the picture, LOL. I might prefer a cucumber though, a carrot sounds awfully pointy!!

Oops! I realized that I used the term "lifestyle" today when making a post. I'm super new here- my husband and I decided on what we called "an open marriage" a couple of months ago. After doing a lot of reading and pondering, I decided that what I really meant by "open marriage" and who I really am is much closer to polyamory than, say, swinging, so I gravitated towards that definition. When I used the term "lifestyle", it was just shorthand for "the decision to practice a polyamory", or "the realization that I AM polyamorous". "Lifestyle" does kind of have that "swinging" connotation, doesn't it? I know that homophobic people often refer pejoratively to the "gay" lifestyle, and my reaction has always been, "Well, WTF is THAT?"


I just usually say nonmonogamous, if I'm trying to be clear to someone. It's the most straightforward definition I can give. And honestly, how it's defined for us changes depending on the situation and the people involved. Sometimes there's a relationship, sometimes it's mostly sex (though always with people that we'd consider friends), on occasion we've had a threesome. Just really depends ...

[redpepper]

I agree with Ari in that I think its to do with Swingers and their take on it. They use the phrase, "in the lifestyle" and it translates to poly... blech! I hate it too... I live no other life but my own thank you very much. Naive and disrespectful without knowing it is what I chalk it up to be.

[Minxxa]

I agree with Ari in that I think its to do with Swingers and their take on it. They use the phrase, "in the lifestyle" and it translates to poly... blech! I hate it too... I live no other life but my own thank you very much. Naive and disrespectful without knowing it is what I chalk it up to be.

You know the one thing I always think about is why they don't realize their "lingo" is not something everybody is going to understand, know what it means, or ascribe the same meanings to? I mean, it's just good form to be clear in a new environment until you learn the lingo there, too. You know? That's just wierd to me...

[swingers]

This is the first time i have seen that people have a problem with the use of the word "Lifestyle" yes i am a swinger, that is a lable that fits me just well so far. And for most swingers... we do call it a lifestyle. so when a person with a institutionalized swinger background posts into a poly sight, of course we are going to use it.

Note: i call "Institutionalized" swingers thoes that have actually been online to some of the more established swinger date sights (specifically SwingLifestyle.com). it has been engraned into our slang.

so, i put forth: please don't bite their head off when they use the word. just know that it is the only context we can understand at the time being and that we are trying to BLEND into a new community.

also, only now, while writing this do i realize that swinging is... ALL ABOUT LABLES. and poly isn't you would almost never hear a swinger describe themselvs as a pansexual, but always "strait" "Bi" "Bi-curious" a so on.
they can love all as equal, because it isnt love, its lust... for the most part :)

[AutumnalTone]

This is the first time i have seen that people have a problem with the use of the word "Lifestyle" yes i am a swinger, that is a lable that fits me just well so far. And for most swingers... we do call it a lifestyle. so when a person with a institutionalized swinger background posts into a poly sight, of course we are going to use it.


And it will still make no sense. It sounds no different than showing up and asking us about our garblyfunch.

What in hell is a garblyfunch? I don't know, yet I suspect it's involved in this Sooper Sekret Poly Lifestyle people keep asking us about!

[NeonKaos]

And it will still make no sense. It sounds no different than showing up and asking us about our garblyfunch.

What in hell is a garblyfunch? I don't know, yet I suspect it's involved in this Sooper Sekret Poly Lifestyle people keep asking us about!

Swinging does fit the description of a "lifestyle", according to the Outlaw Biker/Elks Club analogy.

[nycindie]

so, i put forth: please don't bite their head off when they use the word. just know that it is the only context we can understand at the time being and that we are trying to BLEND into a new community.
Challenging the use of a word is not biting someone's head off. No one's getting bent out of shape just by pointing something out, discussing it, and defending a viewpoint.

[nycindie]

Swinging does fit the description of a "lifestyle", according to the Outlaw Biker/Elks Club analogy.

But isn't it true that people of various lifestyles can swing? Even though there is a set of practices widely accepted and used by swingers, what makes a sexual activity a lifestyle in and of itself?

[NeonKaos]

But isn't it true that people of various lifestyles can swing? Even though there is a set of practices widely accepted and used by swingers, what makes a sexual activity a lifestyle in and of itself?

Yes, that's true too. You can certainly have swinging Outlaw Bikers. Just because something is true doesn't necessarily make it mutually exclusive with respect to all else.

If you go back and re-read Autumnal Tone's Biker/Elks analogy, the answer to that should be apparent. It isn't the "sexual activity" that makes it a "Lifestyle". It's going to parties and clubs and subscribing to a particular and specific set of activities and behaviours SURROUNDING the sexual activities that all who do the "Lifestyle" have in common.

To take the analogy one step further - sexual activity is to swinger as motorcycle riding is to outlaw-biker.

Sexual activity and motorcycle riding are not "Lifestyles", but swinging and outlaw-biking are.

If this doesn't help make it clearer, I give up. I can only re-phrase things so many ways before i decide that the other person just is not going to get it no matter how many times one tries to explain it. The posts are all here to read and re-read. I would say the same thing again if needed, so instead just read this one until it goes in.

[Ariakas]

Its not a lifestyle for me.. it can be for others.. *shrugs*

I just don't enjoy when people say what I do is a certain way vs what I am doing.

[swingers]

check out: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lifestyle_(sociology)

below is from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alternative_lifestyle :

+The following are examples which may be considered by some to be alternate lifestyles:
-Nudism and clothing optional lifestyles.
-Living in unusual communities, such as communes, intentional communities or ecovillages.
-Lifestyle travellers, homebirths, homeschooling, home gardening, housetruckers, New Age travellers, vegetarianism, meditation, hypnosis, reincarnation and feng shui.
-Non-typical sexual lifestyle, such as BDSM, swinging, polyamory and certain types of sexual fetishism or paraphilia.
-Furry lifestylers.
-Alternative spiritual practices.
-Alternative medicine and natural methods of medical care or herbal remedies as medication.
-Eastern religion as sought and practiced by some western converts into faithes based in East Asia and South Asia, like Buddhism, Hinduism, Taoism, Shintoism and so on, as opposed to Monotheism or Judeo-Christian belief systems.
-"Non-mainstream" religious minorities, such as the Amish for example pursue a non-technological or anti-technology lifestyle.

[NeonKaos]

I guess if Wiki says it, we'd better take notice. Because as we all know, Wikipedia is published by experts in their field of study, and is subject to extensive vetting and peer review before they are allowed to put anything up on the interwebz.

[swingers]

Were you making fun of me??? or is that how you actually feel? i couldnt tell. its ok either way.

[NeonKaos]

Were you making fun of me??? or is that how you actually feel? i couldnt tell. its ok either way.

I was making fun of Wikipedia, and yes, that is how I actually feel.

[swingers]

lol, ok. thanks

[Tonberry]

The Wikipedia excerpt sounds like the way I feel. For me whatever is non-typical and affects my life is a lifestyle. So I have a vegetarian lifestyle, and I have a poly lifestyle, and I have a non-shaving lifestyle. That means I get up, have my meat-free breakfast, kiss both my husbands good morning and go comb my armpit hair. It's all normal parts of my life, none of it is a normal part of the masses' lives.
Note: this is a dramatization. I don't currently have two husbands, often don't eat breakfast at all (although when I do it's indeed meatless) and don't comb my hairs daily, be them on my head or elsewhere.

But hey, I honestly don't have a problem with people not calling these things lifestyles. For me, the way I choose to lead my life (or, the style I choose for my life, if you wish) are lifestyles, but if to you the word is heavily charged with other meanings, well then it makes sense not to use it.

For me, vegetarianism affects my life because right now, out of the 5 restaurants in the square down from where I live, only one has a vegetarian option in either appetizers or main dishes. So, big effect on where I eat. And if I'm with more than one partner, I'm going to walk with both of them in the street and get nasty looks and comments (same with just walking alone just by virtue of not shaving) so both affect my life on a daily basis too.

But then, I would also consider being diabetic a lifestyle if I have to check my blood sugar after every meal and get an insulin shot daily. Or being a smoker because you need to take breaks and go out to smoke. So I realise my definition of lifestyle might be a bit more loose than average.

[nycindie]

The point being made, though, is that while of course how a person chooses to live is a lifestyle, which includes many things, but "a lifestyle" is not necessarily the same as "the lifestyle" as if there is one agreed-upon, mutually predetermined way to be in order to qualify as having that kind of lifestyle.

Someone can say, "I am polyamorous" or "I lead a polyamorous lifestyle," where it still remains open to interpretation and is obviously a choice that person made to incorporate polyamory into their own individual lifestyle -- but it simply assumes too much if that person said, "I live the polyamorous lifestyle." Then, someone would hear that and say, "Oh, what is the polyamorous lifestyle?" or, "Oh, I want the polyamorous lifestyle." And what would they do, model their lives after the person who said it in the first place? Then they wouldn't be creating their own way of living and being polyamorous, and if they run into someone else living polyamorously but in a vastly different way, they could think either that person or themselves are doing it "wrong." So, to say polyamory is a lifestyle to adopt, when it is simply the choice to love more than one, can contribute to erecting barriers and misunderstandings.

[BlackUnicorn]

Thank you, Indie, for your clear and concise sum-up of the debate so far!