How do Monos cope with Polys?

[Midnight]

Hi guys
ok - my last post was too long and boring - sorry.

Just wanna know how you cope as a mono, who has no interest in falling in love with anyone else. When your husband falls in love with someone and wants a 'special' (though not sexual) relationship with her.

I feel a bit ashamed in front of all of you, cos it's not even sexual - it's just a romantic friendship they seem to want.

Should I go against my instincts and try to find someone else too?
Should we all meet up together and talk about it?
Should I just let myself feel the jealousy, and see what comes up, when I just allow it?

Is this too boring for you interesting people?
xxx

[MonoVCPHG]

Hi Midnight,
It's not boring at all but I don't understand what a romantic relationship without sex is all about? I am really missing something here. Are you sure he knows what he wants?

[River]

Romantic friendship has existed, and presumably still exists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship

But Monov... is right to ask "Are you sure he knows what he wants?"

EDIT:

Oh... yes, the wikipedia "Romantic Friendship" article is about same-sex "romantic friendships" -- but I'm sure there have been "romantic friendships" between guys and gals as well. That is: really profound and personal love without a sexual relationship.

[NeonKaos]

But Monov... is right to ask "Are you sure he knows what he wants?"

Ya more important, is HE sure he knows what he wants?

[MonoVCPHG]

Should I go against my instincts and try to find someone else too?
Should we all meet up together and talk about it?
Should I just let myself feel the jealousy, and see what comes up, when I just allow it?

Is this too boring for you interesting people?
xxx

Being almost fanatically mono I think I should give a little feedback LOL!

While it is perfectly ok to explore different approaches to loving as long as you are willing and healthy in doing so, there is a certain amount of risk involved.

If you are wired mono like myself, which it sounds like you are, and end up forming a new connection it may cost your husband his wife. I'm saying may, not will. I am very black and white and very sure of how my heart and mind work.

If you try to force your nature to accommodate a new lover, your nature will probably override your intention of maintaining more than one connection of this kind. Romantic, sexual love connections are very different than the love of children or family members. In some people such as me, that connection is completely fulfilled by one person and trust me, faking it with another is not easy and will lead to trouble.

Yes - you should definitely all meet up and talk about it. There has to be a better understanding of what each individual expects.

Definitely allow yourself to feel jealousy and tell your partner about it. Don't let it control you though, analyse it and seek the issues behind those feelings. When you get to the root of your jealousy it is then that you will be able to determine if you can handle this type of relationship.

My situation is much different than yours. I came into an established marriage with holds great respect and power for me. Although I have a romantic/intimate relationship just with Redpepper, I consider myself in a relationship with her and her husband almost as though they are one. That makes my healthy involvement much different than if I was put in your shoes.

[MonoVCPHG]

Hi Midnight..I'm cutting a comment of yours out of "sharing success and happiness" so I can respond here...

it is humbling for me to read about this...
I'm new to all of this - feel scared - feel small hearted - cos I want to keep my husband to myself - not have him be with the other woman he's kinda fallen in love with.... but the loving way you all care for each others feelings is awe inspiring - i'm gonna have to keep opening up to this I think, even though it's scary and it hurts

My situation is different than yours...I would react much differently if I was in your situation. You are encouraged to explore new relationship aproaches but certainly do not "have to" do anything!!

Read some of my other posts so you get the full journey and picture. You are not small hearted I truly believe there are very few people who can overcome the hurdles having a Mono/Poly relationship generate...did I mention you are not small hearted?

Take care
Mono

[Midnight]

Hi Midnight,
It's not boring at all but I don't understand what a romantic relationship without sex is all about? I am really missing something here. Are you sure he knows what he wants?

He tells me he doesn't want sex with her - although he is attracted to her (she's 20 years younger than him, and very beautiful). An awful lot of our friends think he's kidding himself about the sex bit, but he insists it's not sexual for him.... He's sexually very fulfilled with me - if that's relevant.... Praps i need to check this with him a bit more...

[Midnight]

Romantic friendship has existed, and presumably still exists. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Romantic_friendship

But Monov... is right to ask "Are you sure he knows what he wants?"

EDIT:

Oh... yes, the wikipedia "Romantic Friendship" article is about same-sex "romantic friendships" -- but I'm sure there have been "romantic friendships" between guys and gals as well. That is: really profound and personal love without a sexual relationship.

I think this might be what he's after. They have a very intellectual relationship. Passionate - but not physical. But it could have developed that way cos he wants to keep that boundary to protect us and our marriage - more to look into I guess....

[Midnight]

You're very kind - thank you. I'll absorb this and see where it all takes me....
thanks again for your thoughts.

[MonoVCPHG]

Considering the age difference here I could see this either one of two ways. A) Denial of a very real desire to have sex or the need to cultivate almost a father/daughter love.

Romantic friendship is way to vague for me in this and is much more understandable in a same sex situation for me...if he said "deep" friendship I would have a different feeling about this. The word romantic is pretty specific when speaking of men and woman to most people.

[Midnight]

He says he doesn't sexualise her. Although he's just told me that he has wanted to kiss her. So I'm a bit confused now (in fact I'm f.....d off!!). I think he is confused. I think he should search around this site, and start working out for himself what he wants!

[MonoVCPHG]

Yeah..he's holding back in my opinion...maybe not intentionally but I bet he knows in his heart. There is also what she wants..she's young, in love perhaps, legitimately not wanting more intimacy is not very common I would think.
Kissing someone you love is very powerful. It's a landslide that is hard to stop.

[Fidelia]

Should I go against my instincts and try to find someone else too? NO! Definitely not. Trust your instincts. Be true to yourself.
Should we all meet up together and talk about it? Yes. Definitely.
Should I just let myself feel the jealousy, and see what comes up, when I just allow it? It may be very useful to you to find out what is triggering your feelings of jealousy, so that those root causes can be addressed.. For instance, if insecurity is the underlying cause, you and your others could work on ways to help you feel secure, safe and supported in your relationships, which should reduce the jealousy.
Is this too boring for you interesting people? Goodness, no, sweetie! We are all here to help one another!

[Midnight]

Thanks for this Fidelia. You're all amazingly sweet.

got another question - which I'll post in the right place, with a quote....
x

[Midnight]

You all seem to be saying we should all get together and talk about it.

here's my question :

This all started about 2 years ago. After meeting her, and exploring the idea of them having a 'friendship', I decided i couldn't trust it (they'd bee lying to me). I eventually asked my husband to choose between the two of us. He chose me. They've been missing each other ever since, and had the occasional email contact. If I open things up again, and invite a conversation, I'm worried that commits me in some way. Is it fair on her, for me to invite her into a conversation, if I'm not sure I want to commit to anything? I'm not even sure I can trust her really.

[Fidelia]

If you open a discussion on the topic, that's what you're committing to: a discussion. Also, how could any of you make any committments to each other without first thoroughly discussing the issues at hand?

If they had been lying to you, I for one wouldn't blame you if you shut down altogether to the possibility of signing on for more of the same. So the fact that you are even open to discussing the issue speaks well of your open mindedness and desire to see that all of you are having your needs met. But it is not selfish to protect your heart, especially in cases where it's been put at risk in the past. Your first responsibility is to yourself and your personal integrity. How can I love someone else until I first find and nurture that love inside myself?
I'm not even sure I can trust her really. Is it that you are not sure you can trust her, or is it that you already distrust her? If you're not sure, perhaps you can open the door to building trust. If you distrust her, you're done and there's nothing left to discuss. (IMO. I would not waste time discussing becoming involved with someone I distrust.)

[Midnight]

I really like your clear thinking. Thank you
xx

[Midnight]

It may be very useful to you to find out what is triggering your feelings of jealousy, so that those root causes can be addressed.. For instance, if insecurity is the underlying cause, you and your others could work on ways to help you feel secure, safe and supported in your relationships, which should reduce the jealousy.

A question about this please!

What I'm noticing is I don't doubt B's love for me. I'm very clear that he loves me. I'm sure insecurity is an important aspect of it. Almost feel 'lesser' cos I don't fall in love with others myself. I actually suspect there's envy in there for me - i.e. I find it a bit unbearable to think of him loving someone else, when I'm not interested in that - I wanna have some of that for myself (except that I dont). I also seem to be attached to the exclusivity of our love. Don't like the feeling of that leaching out to anyone else. Have the same feeling about sex - it's a sacred union - it's exclusive which is what for me makes it sacred.... (luckily he's not challenging me on that one - seems mono himself when it comes to sex)

Any suggestions for how I get to a deeper understanding of the issues around my jealousy, and how I get support from him/them in that?

[Fidelia]

I really like your clear thinking. Thank you
xx I'm so glad I could help. Sometimes it's easy to see another person's situation more clearly than our own. That's one of the things I love about this forum. Many views, many voices. :)

[Midnight]

It may be very useful to you to find out what is triggering your feelings of jealousy, so that those root causes can be addressed.. For instance, if insecurity is the underlying cause, you and your others could work on ways to help you feel secure, safe and supported in your relationships, which should reduce the jealousy.

A question about this please!

What I'm noticing is I don't doubt B's love for me. I'm very clear that he loves me. I'm sure insecurity is an important aspect of it. Almost feel 'lesser' cos I don't fall in love with others myself. I actually suspect there's envy in there for me - i.e. I find it a bit unbearable to think of him loving someone else, when I'm not interested in that - I wanna have some of that for myself (except that I dont). I also seem to be attached to the exclusivity of our love. Don't like the feeling of that leaching out to anyone else. Have the same feeling about sex - it's a sacred union - it's exclusive which is what for me makes it sacred.... (luckily he's not challenging me on that one - seems mono himself when it comes to sex)

Any suggestions for how I get to a deeper understanding of the issues around my jealousy, and how I get support from him/them in that?

I'm wondering if you missed this question I posted - about dealing with the jealousy feelings, and getting support around the feelings of insecurity.... sorry if I'm hassling...:)

[Fidelia]

It may be very useful to you to find out what is triggering your feelings of jealousy, so that those root causes can be addressed.. For instance, if insecurity is the underlying cause, you and your others could work on ways to help you feel secure, safe and supported in your relationships, which should reduce the jealousy.

A question about this please!

What I'm noticing is I don't doubt B's love for me. I'm very clear that he loves me. I'm sure insecurity is an important aspect of it. Almost feel 'lesser' cos I don't fall in love with others myself. I actually suspect there's envy in there for me - i.e. I find it a bit unbearable to think of him loving someone else, when I'm not interested in that - I wanna have some of that for myself (except that I dont). I also seem to be attached to the exclusivity of our love. Don't like the feeling of that leaching out to anyone else. Have the same feeling about sex - it's a sacred union - it's exclusive which is what for me makes it sacred.... (luckily he's not challenging me on that one - seems mono himself when it comes to sex)

Any suggestions for how I get to a deeper understanding of the issues around my jealousy, and how I get support from him/them in that? When you find yourself experiencing jealousy, take a minute to ask your self why? Be honest with yourself, and trust your gut. You've already identified much about it, in this post. You feel "lesser" (which is a threat to your self-esteem). You feel envious, which indicates you feel you may be missing out on something. You may be conflicted (you want some of that, except that you don't). All of these are issues that can be addressed, and as you look deeper into what you're experiencing you may find more.

How can you get him/them to support you in resolving the deeper issues behind the jealousy? Recognizing that the work to be done is primarily yours, because the feelings are yours, you can talk to them about how you feel, and ask them to help. For instance, as you work on the self-esteem issue, you can ask him/them for reassurance of your worth and value to him/them. You can talk to him/them about what you are envious of, and explore those conflcted feelings. Really, talk and talk and talk some more. It helps.

I'm sure there are other, wiser poly-folk on the forum who can give better advice, but there's a place to start.

[Fidelia]

I'm wondering if you missed this question I posted - about dealing with the jealousy feelings, and getting support around the feelings of insecurity.... sorry if I'm hassling...:)

I didn't miss it, but I was carefully considering my response.

Plus, I'm not the fastest typist.

[Midnight]

Ta very much
and sorry I kept addressing you! Will search around for other wise souls
xx

[Fidelia]

Ta very much
and sorry I kept addressing you! Will search around for other wise souls
xx I really am glad to help if I can. :)

And I'm sure some of the other, wiser and more experience folks here will weigh in. There are plenty of them around. :)

[redpepper]

What troubles me about all this is that he wants to call it poly. It isn't poly for a man and woman to have a friendship. I have lots of close male friends that I am not interested in having sex with, but I am very close with. There is nothing wrong with that. Even if there is sexual tension I know where I stand and I am firm with them.

Poly is a sexual and intimate relationship. I would certainly question his motives if he wants to call it that.

You certainly don't have to look into another partner if yours is. Why would you want to do that? Its like the whole question of would you jump off a bridge if others were.

Be yourself always. Its as simple as that. What's hard is knowing who you are so you can be yourself.

[HappiestManAlive]

Fidelia's posts are all right on the money, there isn't a lot to expand on (And really Fidelia, your as wise a soul as any!).

I do question the sex bit as well. ITmay very well be that he is tellig you the absolute truth, I won't say that he's not! I will say with absolute certainty that in my experience, denying those attractions and refusing to act on them is VERY different than not having them! I can also say that never, not once ever, have I wanted to kiss a girl I was romantically interested in without the desire - whether or not acted upon or even intending to act upon - to go further being present.

I don't want to upset you or call your husbands integrity into question! But if this is going to be sorted out, he needs to be honest with himself as well as with you - because you ca't be honest with ANYONE if you're not honest with yourself!

As for you coping... Well, first of all, no more "small hearted" crap, LOL! The fact that you're even trying to understand these things - much less going to a place like these boards to gain perspective and advice from people who identify as yourhusband does - speaks VOLLUMES to your character and BIG heart! Would that my exes were so desirous to make things work (OK, not true, because then I might have missed out on Violet and Anne, which is not ok with me at this point, lol). The big question is, do you feel that this situation detracts from his attentions where you're concerned? If you can honestly say no, that you do not feel that under any circumstnaces he would leave you or lessen his interest and attentions for you, well, then maybe work on supporting what may be of tremendous benifit to your relationship as he will likely gain a tremendous level of appreciation and love for you as he recognizes that you are "letting him be him". I didn't put that very well, I hope the point came across right. Conversly, if you feel that his involvement with her causes him to lose interest in you or detreact from your relaationship, well - he's not poly s we here tend to view it! The whole point of this thing is that it magnifies and multiplies the feelings we have for each individual partner. I know that's the case with my situation - I loved Violet so imensly that it almost hurt - and when thing starte to come together with Anne, my love for each feeds off the other and my feelings for both are increased exponentially! If he's like that, than you will know love from him far in excess of what you thought possible as things progress with her. "Love doesn't divide, it multiplies" - Robert Heinlein Ergo, if it divides, it ain't love! ;)

[redpepper]

What troubles me about all this is that he wants to call it poly. It isn't poly for a man and woman to have a friendship. I have lots of close male friends that I am not interested in having sex with, but I am very close with. There is nothing wrong with that. Even if there is sexual tension I know where I stand and I am firm with them.

Poly is a sexual and intimate relationship. I would certainly question his motives if he wants to call it that.

You certainly don't have to look into another partner if yours is. Why would you want to do that? Its like the whole question of would you jump off a bridge if others were.

Be yourself always. Its as simple as that. What's hard is knowing who you are so you can be yourself.

Oh my, I missed two pages... opps, I'm so far behind.... seems that it's taken care of by Fidelea.
so I'll bow out. sorry.

[redpepper]

okay I do have some stuff to say....

I agree with HappiestManalive first of all. You do indeed have a big heart to be even considering all this! Good for you for doing the work necessary to keep your heart safe and to keep learning about yourself and your relationship.

What is husband doing to achieve this I wonder?

I am sorry but your husband bugs, I have to admit. The whole older man with a younger woman thing is what it is. She is 20 years younger and hot?! I would really struggle with that. If she were the same age or older and ugly by conventional standards would he be so interested? Also, would he want to kiss her (which equals wanting to have sex with her.... hello?! There is not much difference... any of us who have kissed passionately know that!)?

I'm sorry my friend, I think you are being fed a line that he thinks you want to hear. I would be very surprised if this girl weren't looking for a Daddy figure and your husband wasn't getting off on a sweet young thing thinking he is interesting enough to be friends with him. Mid life crisis perhaps? That can come at any age really.... and I suspect if she is 20 years younger that he is at least in his late 30's?

Jealousy is a means to figuring out what fear is going on for you? Your gut is telling you something just isn't right and you need to look at that specifically. It could be an artificial fear, but I suspect not under these kinds of circumstances. You and your monogamous heart feel threatened and rightly so.

If I were in your situation, provided that things are as I am thinking, I would be telling him what I REALLY think is going on. If he admits to it then he'll need to know that he has to get his priorities straight. Perhaps seek some help in doing so. He has a responsibility to be honest and open, not communicate what he THINKS you want to hear, otherwise you will be there for ever trying to figure it out while his lust and desire for this girl get stronger and stronger. If he really wants to be poly then he has to get a grip on how to communicate this way (radical honesty) to you as do you to him.

Yes, big thumbs up on meeting with the girl AFTER he has fessed up to what is REALLY going on for him.... provided he still wants to pursue her that is.... if I am right, he might feel the fool and back away. That is okay too, it takes a big man to admit his desire for girls that think he's cool when he feels like an old man.

[Fidelia]

Fidelia's posts are all right on the money, there isn't a lot to expand on (And really Fidelia, your as wise a soul as any!).
:o :D :o

[HappiestManAlive]

Red - they've been together for 30 years, so late 40's is probably closer, more likely early 50's, putting "her" late 20's or early 30's. Most girls have their daddy issues if not handled, than at leaast under control by then, LOL. Of course that varies, but I digress. The "older man/yonger woman" thing is a sensitive spot for me - at 34 I'm not old my any stretch, but people around me are somewhat critical of both my and Viiolet's motivations because of the 13 year age gap (she'll be 21 in January). It annoys me, lol.

Moving on...

What troubles me about all this is that he wants to call it poly. It isn't poly for a man and woman to have a friendship. I have lots of close male friends that I am not interested in having sex with, but I am very close with. There is nothing wrong with that. Even if there is sexual tension I know where I stand and I am firm with them.

Poly is a sexual and intimate relationship. I would certainly question his motives if he wants to call it that.

I'm a little put off by that statement, and I wonder if you could expound on it or clarify it a bit? There are many people for whom a relationship can be more than a friendship or more accurately different than a friendship without being sexually intimate. ???

[redpepper]

You will notice, dear HMA that I said, "if this is true." I have no idea what the deal is, so I quite humanly go to generalizations. I am sorry about your sensitivities in regards to the age gap thing. I myself have a husband that is seven years younger than I (mono is two years younger) and realize that some people are more mature at younger ages and less at older ages. It balances out sometimes. I am in doubt of it working out with a 20 year gap unless the daddy complex or something else is going on.

What twigged me was the talk of her being good looking and him saying he wanted a romantic friendship, then wanted to kiss her. I'm sorry, but there is way too much in all that that spells out older dude going through midlife stuff. Especially if he is in his late 40's! Perhaps I am wrong, I'm not always right.

Please read again what I said about what I think poly is and then read what you want me to explain, cause I don't think we are differing in opinion about it.

[HappiestManAlive]

I was not offended in any way by your statement re age gap, I threw that comment in because it's a pet peeve, lol.

I was asking for claarification re the "it's not poly if it doesn't involve intimacy" bit. As for your concerns about his motivations, I think you are correct in findong our views very much the same.

[NeonKaos]

I was not offended in any way by your statement re age gap, I threw that comment in because it's a pet peeve, lol.

I was asking for claarification re the "it's not poly if it doesn't involve intimacy" bit. As for your concerns about his motivations, I think you are correct in findong our views very much the same.


This forum was having a discussion a month or two ago about whether "intimacy" is synonymous with "sexual activity". There is a whole spectrum of differing opinions regarding this topic. The following dissertation applies to any relationship, mono or poly:

If someone wants to kiss someone else on the mouth or in any way other than "Hello/Goodbye" or hold hands other than for the purpose of not getting separated in a large crowd, that crosses the line from "platonic friends" to "romantic friends". Any further than that (touching the "fun parts", snuggling while naked, etc.) crosses the line from "just friends" to "fooling around", and ANY time there is the intent or attempt to have an orgasm by one or more of the persons involved crosses the line from "fooling around" to "having sex".

I'm sure I'm leaving out some variations on the theme, and I recognize that I did not address how "intimacy" fits into the above descriptions. I simply cannot cover all the bases by myself at this time...

I know that there are other people on this forum who either draw the lines in different places or just flat-out disagree with some of what I just said.

[redpepper]

I never said that intimacy is not poly. I said the opposite. I said poly is a sexual and intimate relationship. It sounds like he is asking to have sex with his friend. That to me is not poly. Its having an open relationship. Poly is about love and the kind of commitment that goes beyond just a casual fuck out of horniness. Its a lot of work and effort to be certain that everyones needs are met and continue to be satisfied with the situation. Especially after the NRE wears off. I am not convinced this guy is coming from that perspective.

There is a thread that I know of way back called the definition of poly (I think) from way back where we discussed it all.

[HappiestManAlive]

You read my statement backwards, lol. I said:

I was asking for claarification re the "it's not poly if it doesn't involve intimacy" bit.

I believe that it's possible to go past friends and into "involved in the relationship" without involving physical intimacy. Less involved than would be otherwise to be certain - but with Lana in our situation for instance, the PHYSICAL intimacy is almost nonexistant, whereas with Anne it is very much part of our interactions all around. While Lana isn't considered part of our triad as such, she is absolutely part of our defacto family - couldn't have it otherwise if we tried, lol!

[NeonKaos]

There is also an older thread regarding asexual relationships and people with emotional attachments who don't have sex for one reason or another.

I'm too tired to go find it for you. You'll have to look for it yourself.

[vandalin]

YGirl, I like what you said and how you have it "classified" as this is going to be on my mind this coming week when I see Elric again. He seems to be the type who does hold hands or puts an arm around his female friends but in a friendly gesture as opposed to romantic...at least that seems to be the impression I get.

[redpepper]

I must say I struggle with the asexual poly thing. But maybe I just have very touchy friendships? I dunno. If the touching is sexual maybe I would get it?

[NeonKaos]

I must say I struggle with the asexual poly thing. But maybe I just have very touchy friendships? I dunno. If the touching is sexual maybe I would get it?


I think some folks can have the "love feeling" but be turned off toward the sex act(s) for whatever reason. Not ME or YOU, but SOME people.

[redpepper]

Ya but... I have love for my friends?! Not sexual love with most of them, but love that makes me want to be close to them, hold their hand, cuddle them, etc. What's the dif?

[NeonKaos]

Ya but... I have love for my friends?! Not sexual love with most of them, but love that makes me want to be close to them, hold their hand, cuddle them, etc. What's the dif?

I would have to say that the difference is you. YOU are not an "asexual" person. The scope of the discussion mainly focused on people who can be "in love" with a PARTNER but have mental or psychological obstacles or issues that prevent them from fully appreciating themselves as a sexual being.

[XYZ123]

I can only speak for when I'm in asexual PHASE. I love my husband with all my heart and want to share EVERY aspect of my life with him, from raising our kids to paying bills to grocery shopping. I just have no interest in sex, though I'm still all about the cuddles. I have friends I like to be cuddly with, but there are boundaries to the level I want them in my life. If I had another partner, and was in asexual phase, it would be the same way I feel about my husband. So, I AM poly with my husband and partner (though asexual at the moment) but NOT with my cuddly friends. Also, I'm not anti-sex when asexual. I'm willing if it makes the other happy as I enjoy pleasing my partner. I'm just not going to start it up and probably won't orgasm. But I'll enjoy making the other feel good.

[redpepper]

thanks xyz123, that make a bit more sense....