I believe my brain is breaking.

[pheonixaise]

Ok, so I debated for a long time writing on this forum and seeking help, but I have found myself in a jam I cannot seem to solve on my own.

My name is Dane, and I'm in a somewhat poly relationship. When I met my fiancee, I was single and living a completely monogamous lifestyle. I never had any interest in poly whatsoever, and have a very apathetic view on sex in particular.

My fiancee, however, was very sexual when I met her. She had been in several monogamous relationships, and had been fine in them (mild cheating aside), but reached the conclusion thanks to one man that she was naturally polyamorous. I will not argue this. She is the only person I've ever met who literally feels compersion in almost every situation she is faced with.

She also seems to form connections based on a single positive attribute of a person. She doesn't seem to need more than one good thing, be it physical attractiveness (though she has a very hard time without this) new ways of thinking, emotional receptiveness, or anything else one may take to be a broad positive trait in order to form a connection.

At this point I must add that she seems to thrive on, and is almost addicted to NRE. Who wouldn't be, right? Once mutuality is established, it's like an emotional, sexual, and hormonal rollercoaster that is beyond contestation.

Here is the catch. I love this woman more than anything. I am naturally monogamous. I could spend my whole life with one woman and be very happy, and am not only hesitant to make new connections, but actually have trouble doing so, not only because it is difficult to find the diminishing percentage of women I would be interested in (I.E. 2% of the human population interest me in general, about 50% or so of that 2% are women, and an even smaller, unquantifiable amount are women who would be willing to be poly) but also because I just don't feel the need to connect with anyone else. If I'm with another women, I literally have ALWAYS felt I would rather be doing this (whatever it may be) with my fiancee. If there is a connection I make, I view it as friendship, and feel almost no desire to take it further.

Now, we have a 9 month old child together, and that makes things complicated. For a while, she saw that her thriving on the NRE of others hurt me, and not through completely unfounded jealousy, but through errors in judgment on her part, breeches of established comfort ability and understanding of boundaries. In my mind, there is another point to be made here, that evidence of such situations in every other poly relationship I have ever been privy to has been poisonous to the mental state and mutual enjoyment of the relationship as a whole. Through seeing the former, she decided that it would be best for the both of us if we focused on our relationship, and on our baby.

Added to this was the fact that after she had the baby, her libido (which could strangle three very active men and leave them crying for help. Ever heard the old Irish drinking song "The Widow" Look it up, lol) dropped off the face of the planet, and even 9 months later, still has. I've received several pieces of advice on this, most polarized views, about how us being monogamous may be choking her libido, and a couple saying that the NRE may have just fizzled out, and that a baby will do that.

Now, all of these things taken into account, my natural monogamy, her natural poly, the baby, her libido, the jealousy in whatever way it manifests, and our life as a family, she recently told me that, to her, monogamy was like putting on a mask. She can never really be herself as long as she is thus.

Aside from the shattering connotations of this particular statement, chief among them to a monogamous man being the insecurity of the fact that, after sacrificing all of his freedoms to be with this woman as well, he is not enough for her, there is the fact that after a heated discussion about the subject, in which we were trying to find a way to make it more comfortable and better for both of us, and despite our best efforts (and you're going to have to trust me that I did everything I possibly could to be A. honest about my feelings while being B. emotionally sensitive and supportive of her needs) couldn't come up with anything that wouldn't be difficult for either me or her, she said forget it, lets just be monogamous.

So here is my problem, and what I need help on. How can I A. overcome my jealousy when it is actually founded on empirical evidence, B. believe her when she says that monogamy is the way she sees is best, C. not feel like I'm wearing the same mask if we are poly, D. find poly women who are interesting in a community where nobody wants to openly say they are poly, and E. not let this effect our daughter.

My chief concern, of course is E. I don't actually believe poly is wrong. I fully support gender-equality. I fully support development of different connections. I fully support the honesty that is completely necessary in a poly relationship. But I also fully support the definition of polyamory as it has been widely accepted. "with the knowledge and consent of everyone involved." I can't subject my daughter to the emotions I will feel while she is out with another man. Our daughter is very empathetic. When my fiancee is upset, she is upset, when I'm upset, she is also upset. So whenever I feel the jealousy, founded or no, in poly, I cannot and will not let it affect this precious little girl.

Have I simply found myself at an impasse that will destroy our relationship, or is their some reasonable, (And I can't stress this enough) NOT POLARIZED viewpoint or advice that can help me overcome this issue. Know that I am a Stoic. All things in moderation, and therefore I am not prone to the Epicurean viewpoints of "love conquers all," though I am convinced of its power and influence.

Excuse the length of this, I'm mildly freaking out about this :P

[Tonberry]

I sadly don't have any good advice at this point... It sounds like you, as a family unit, cannot be happy mono OR poly... and breaking it off doesn't seem like an option either!

One thing I don't get though... If you're mono, why are you looking for other women? It seems to me you'd only be making things worse. You don't want to be with someone else. You'd only hurt yourself and any woman you date.
You don't have to both be the same. You can be in a relationship where she is herself (poly) and you are yourself (mono).

That doesn't solve the jealousy issues, but it's not something I have any idea how to help you with, sadly. Hopefully other members will do a better job of it.

[BlackUnicorn]

Here is the catch. I love this woman more than anything. I am naturally monogamous. I could spend my whole life with one woman and be very happy, and am not only hesitant to make new connections, but actually have trouble doing so...

So am I reading it right that you have tried dating other women, and have found that it brings absolutely no enjoyment to you? Who made the decision for you to start trying to see other girls?

For a while, she saw that her thriving on the NRE of others hurt me, and not through completely unfounded jealousy, but through errors in judgment on her part, breeches of established comfort ability and understanding of boundaries.

NRE can be a bitch. Is her polystyle something of a constant dating, with frequent sexual connections with a number of very different people? I can see how that is an especially bad match for a poly/mono relationship.

Added to this was the fact that after she had the baby, her libido (which could strangle three very active men and leave them crying for help. Ever heard the old Irish drinking song "The Widow" Look it up, lol) dropped off the face of the planet, and even 9 months later, still has. I've received several pieces of advice on this, most polarized views, about how us being monogamous may be choking her libido, and a couple saying that the NRE may have just fizzled out, and that a baby will do that.

What does she feel is the reason behind this? Does it bother her? If she weren't in postpartum, I'd suggest reviewing the birth control you guys use, but that probably isn't it in this case.


Aside from the shattering connotations of this particular statement, chief among them to a monogamous man being the insecurity of the fact that, after sacrificing all of his freedoms to be with this woman as well, he is not enough for her...

Ah, it's not about being enough. These are not give and take situations. There is nothing you are doing wrong or could be doing better. This is who she is.

So here is my problem, and what I need help on. How can I
A. overcome my jealousy when it is actually founded on empirical evidence

Talk to her. She is an NRE junkie who forgets all about boundaries and agreements and just does what the heck she wants with whichever new partner has stricken her fancy? That's not okay.

B. believe her when she says that monogamy is the way she sees is best

You need to respect her enough to believe what she says is true. She might be actually saying this is what she wants to be the best thing, but that's on her, not on you.

C. not feel like I'm wearing the same mask if we are poly

What was the single biggest disappointment you had when she was still dating? Boundary-breaking? Is there any possible poly future which you could see working for you? A triad, a poly-fi vee, a quad, what have you.

D. find poly women who are interesting in a community where nobody wants to openly say they are poly

No local poly groups in your area? Internet-dating? Why do you still want to pursue other relationships if you are convinced mono is what you are?

E. not let this effect our daughter.

Try to time the date-nights so that you have something meaningful to do other than fret about and have somebody babysit your baby girl?

Is the real problem her being poly, or her being irresponsible poly lost in NRE?

Oh, and welcome.

[pheonixaise]

Thank you for the advice guys. BlackUnicorn, I found your advice at the least comforting, that someone isn't cramming some view of "It's all on you bro" down my throat, which is all I've been getting. As for why I'm still trying to date, I must admit I'm desperately clinging to the hope that I can find someone worth dating. It's not that I don't believe that I COULD feel something for someone else, now that the NRE in our own relationship seems to have faded, but I've explored several options, and it hasn't worked. However, if I can find a way to make it work, I would like to.

Here's the thing, I honestly hope that I can find someone, because I have seen it work in other relationships. If I have someone to focus on when she is focusing on someone, even if mine is the same person while hers are varied, I will have a positive focus for what seems to be (currently) and incredibly negative situation.

Thank you for your posts guys ,they've been helpful, and if not, decidedly kind ^^ I feel I'm at least not alone now in feeling my situation is one that I should legitimately be worried about.

[nycindie]

I . . . have a very apathetic view on sex in particular.

Curious - what does this mean, exactly?

Now, we have a 9 month old child together, and that makes things complicated. For a while, she saw that her thriving on the NRE of others hurt me, and not through completely unfounded jealousy, but through errors in judgment on her part, breeches of established comfort ability and understanding of boundaries. In my mind, there is another point to be made here, that evidence of such situations in every other poly relationship I have ever been privy to has been poisonous to the mental state and mutual enjoyment of the relationship as a whole. Through seeing the former, she decided that it would be best for the both of us if we focused on our relationship, and on our baby.That would seem prudent, considering that you both have not been successful in managing boundaries. It would seem better communication would help?

. . . my natural monogamy, her natural poly, the baby, her libido, the jealousy in whatever way it manifests, and our life as a family, she recently told me that, to her, monogamy was like putting on a mask. She can never really be herself as long as she is thus.
Hmm . . . wondering if she's possibly experiencing post-partum depression?

Also wondering how her diminished libido relates to your apathy toward sex?

Aside from the shattering connotations of this particular statement . . .

I don't know why it is shattering, considering it's not totally out of the blue. You discussed polyamory and know it's something she desired. So... it being "shattering" to you surprises me.

. . . to a monogamous man being the insecurity of the fact that, after sacrificing all of his freedoms to be with this woman as well, he is not enough for her . . .

This is a frequent misunderstanding. Her needing to be polyamorous in her relationships does not mean you are "not enough." Everyone has a range of needs and one person cannot fulfill them all for another. It is simply unreasonable and dangerous to think so. That is why mono people also have friends and family to call on, and poly people have additional lovers. I am sure you fulfill every need she has from YOU, but not every need she has.

I can't subject my daughter to the emotions I will feel while she is out with another man. Our daughter is very empathetic. When my fiancee is upset, she is upset, when I'm upset, she is also upset. So whenever I feel the jealousy, founded or no, in poly, I cannot and will not let it affect this precious little girl.Oh, geez, you cannot protect and insulate a child from every negative emotion out there. Children thrive when they are able to meet and deal with challenges. Not saying you should be insensitive to emotions she is faced with, but living a lie and denying your feelings or trying to eradicate them without dealing with them will do your daughter no good. Sometimes you can't be logical in dealing with life. It would be like keeping her "locked away" as if she was Rapunzel and she would become soft and spoiled and unable to face difficult things in life. The best example you can set is to be able to meet the challenges you face, experience your feelings, and handle them.

[redpepper]

I am interested to know what "its all up to you" means from people you have talked to about this.. what is all up to you?

She has a 9 month old. I didn't get horny again until my boy was three. Now he is seven and I have sex pretty much daily. If anything it increased. Results may vary.

NRE junkies are a difficult lot. I would wonder if there is more behind this than is evident. Has she looked into what is going on for her? Done some work on herself? Poly is not about dating man after man after man usually, with consent from a more permanent partner. That is more of an open relationship. I don't know too much about that actually. It isn't poly to me and I know quite a bit about that. To me there is something concerning about dating a whole bunch of guys with the intent to just have NRE with them. It seems unfair to them somehow. Deceitful and disrespectful. Is she aware that she does this? Or is there some kind of goal here?

If I were you I would set up a schedule whereby she goes out one night or two out of the week, and you go out one night or two of the week and then the two of you go out together one or two nights of the week. The rest is family time... of course numbers may vary, but the idea is that there is a consistent routine to follow.

It should be easy if you have a baby to adjust to this as babies are all about routine. In this way you can do what you want to do in life and so can she. She chooses to go on dates, and you may choose to join a bowling league or something. It's up to you. The point is to not sit around at home thinking about this and to get about the business of having an active life.

My husband decided to better himself and he has... I have been with my boyfriend for two years and he now lives with us. The best thing that my husband did for himself and all of us, was to go and figure out what he wants out of life, rather than believing he had to be with me all the time and waiting for me all the time. We raise our boy to be independent also. He thinks independently and we have taught him to talk for himself about his needs. He is a strong independent thinker that knows what he wants (of course his age is a part of that two :p) Good lesson for a kid I think, better than the one he was being taught which is that men should stay at home and mope while their partners are out living life. He is learning something very valuable in our poly family... belonging, yet being independent.

Please don't find a girlfriend. Bringing some unsuspecting person into a relationship that isn't functioning well is unfair and cruel. She may fall for you and then have to deal with all the issues that you come along with. I suggest sorting it all out first and then, if you are interested, find another love. It could just be that once you have figured this out you are single or so much on your game with your partner that it is not necessary to work it all out. If you are in fact mono that is :)

I would suggest doing a tag search on here for "lessons" and "foundations" They are excellent threads under those tags for people that are new to all this and struggling to figure out their groove. Lots of advice from seasoned veterans... or people that have their shit together more than others.

[pheonixaise]

I am interested to know what "its all up to you" means from people you have talked to about this.. what is all up to you?

"It's all up to me" means that this is who she is at her core, and no matter how unfair it is (Because we all know it's easier for a woman to find a date than a man on a generalized basis, especially when the woman in, by all accounts, a remarkably attractive woman) and how wrong it may seem to me, no matter how much it hurts me, I need to be ok with her doing these things, because she's poly. However, I'm monogamous, that has to count for something. Being poly for me is as difficult as being monogamous is for her.

She has a 9 month old. I didn't get horny again until my boy was three. Now he is seven and I have sex pretty much daily. If anything it increased. Results may vary. I understand, but she is horny again. For other men, and isn't spending much of that energy (I say much because we've had sex about 4 times in 9 months) on me. And when she does, it's an appeasement so she can go out with someone else.

NRE junkies are a difficult lot. I would wonder if there is more behind this than is evident. Has she looked into what is going on for her? Done some work on herself? Poly is not about dating man after man after man usually, with consent from a more permanent partner. That is more of an open relationship. I don't know too much about that actually. It isn't poly to me and I know quite a bit about that. To me there is something concerning about dating a whole bunch of guys with the intent to just have NRE with them. It seems unfair to them somehow. Deceitful and disrespectful. Is she aware that she does this? Or is there some kind of goal here? It's not like she goes in with the intention of leaving just as quickly. She goes in, has her fun, the phenethyleomines (sp?) wear off, and she realizes they are a drunk, or they don't respect her, or they think she's a piece of meat, or they're dumb as a brick, or they think she's property. It's not like she goes in just for the NRE knowingly. She really thinks she's going to make a connection. Of all the things she is, deceitful isn't one of them. Disrespectful on the other hand, maybe. She is a kind and caring person, who honestly wants others to be happy.

If I were you I would set up a schedule whereby she goes out one night or two out of the week, and you go out one night or two of the week and then the two of you go out together one or two nights of the week. The rest is family time... of course numbers may vary, but the idea is that there is a consistent routine to follow.

It should be easy if you have a baby to adjust to this as babies are all about routine. In this way you can do what you want to do in life and so can she. She chooses to go on dates, and you may choose to join a bowling league or something. It's up to you. The point is to not sit around at home thinking about this and to get about the business of having an active life. Well, that poses a problem. A. I work nearly full time, and go to school full time. I also have a child. I don't have that free time. My fiancee however, is a stay at home mom and has all the free time she can ask for. A schedule is almost null and void. I'm afraid I'm just not willing to provide for someone who is only there 5 nights a week when I get home, and then I have to watch the baby on my own, after a 12 hour day the other two nights.

My husband decided to better himself and he has... I have been with my boyfriend for two years and he now lives with us. The best thing that my husband did for himself and all of us, was to go and figure out what he wants out of life, rather than believing he had to be with me all the time and waiting for me all the time. We raise our boy to be independent also. He thinks independently and we have taught him to talk for himself about his needs. He is a strong independent thinker that knows what he wants (of course his age is a part of that two :p) Good lesson for a kid I think, better than the one he was being taught which is that men should stay at home and mope while their partners are out living life. He is learning something very valuable in our poly family... belonging, yet being independent.

Right, now here is where my polarized view statement comes into play. I'm afraid I don't quite subscribe to the "bettering" statement. Your husband may be an exception to the data I have collected, but rarely do I see a matriarchal poly family where the husband isn't secretly wishing it wasn't necessary. Also, I fully understand finding out what I want out of life. I've already done so. As little drama as possible. I want to live a life where I can play music, come home to my family after a hard days work, play with my kids, and not have to worry about other people's drama. However, with poly comes complications in this regard. Every time she meets a new guy, whoosh, it's like a whirlwind. It's all she wants to talk about. And guess who is there to pick up the pieces when it fails? Me. I'm the one who tells her, "You know, this guy talks quite crassly about you behind your back," or "He doesn't let you speak, I have to tell him you have something to say before he wipes the 'quite, the adults are speaking' look off his face" and then when it all comes crashing down, I'm the one who holds her up.

Please don't find a girlfriend. Bringing some unsuspecting person into a relationship that isn't functioning well is unfair and cruel. She may fall for you and then have to deal with all the issues that you come along with. I suggest sorting it all out first and then, if you are interested, find another love. It could just be that once you have figured this out you are single or so much on your game with your partner that it is not necessary to work it all out. If you are in fact mono that is :) This is fairly decent advice. However, what is the point of being poly if it is just to have your partner do things that hurt you, with no benefit to yourself. There would be literally no benefit to me if I don't date as well. The small chance I could find a girlfriend is the only thing that keeps me optimistic about the whole situation. If I'm supposed to figure this out before I find a girlfriend, then it almost seems a parasitic lifestyle.

I must say this, excuse me if that seemed rude, I promise I meant no disrespect. I'm just a little touchy on some subjects, especially that particular one.

[pheonixaise]

Curious - what does this mean, exactly?
This means that I have had 12 sexual partners in my life. With 11 of them, I was never sexually gratified. I don't feel sex as a need. I enjoy it with my fiancee (the only person I've ever enjoyed it with) as she was the first person to show me that it an, in fact, be enjoyable. I don't masturbate (not because I believe it's wrong, I'm all for it! Promotes good health, better concentration in school, better mood, all positives! I just don't feel the need to myself, so I don't)
That would seem prudent, considering that you both have not been successful in managing boundaries. It would seem better communication would help? Better communication I feel is an umbrella term. Yes, if you communicate better, problems, will in fact, be resolved quicker. Simply saying "communicate better" doesn't help anything, it simply seems to me a catch-all that will help you, but the same goes for every problem dealing with interaction between two humans.


Hmm . . . wondering if she's possibly experiencing post-partum depression? She did go through some sever post-partum, poor thing. We're working on that quite hard. We've taken to hobbies that she used to absolutely love before the baby, but hasn't had time since, such as painting, camping, SCA, chainmail, and other such activities. It is helping.

Also wondering how her diminished libido relates to your apathy toward sex?
As I said, I don't feel it as a need. It still bothers me when she talks about, and pursues other men in that regard, and doesn't spend what little libido she has on me. Ever heard Sublime, Summertime? First verse. I don't dislike sex, especially not with her, and I'm very patient. But we ARE the "married" couple, and from everything I've ever read on this subject, it is her responsibility to make sure needs are met with her primary partner before spending such energy on tertiary partners.

So apathy may be the wrong word. Patient indifference may be a better way to put it. I don't pursue it actively, but I still want it.


I don't know why it is shattering, considering it's not totally out of the blue. You discussed polyamory and know it's something she desired. So... it being "shattering" to you surprises me. Well, that's interesting. She told me when she got pregnant, that she had had too many negative experiences in poly, and that when the chips were down, I was the only one who stood up and helped. She told me she wanted to be monogamous, and that we would discuss rare and infrequent temptations on her part. The shattering portion comes from this poly lifestyle being thrown back at me full force, and shattering the fragile window that separates the two completely. How could I ever be monogamous now with her, even if it is "what she wanted" without feeling like she's lying to me, and how can I be poly with her when it hurts me? Things were well in monogamy. She never cheated on me. She occasionally met someone, we talked about it, and sometimes even determined it was a temptation worth exploring. However, now that stability is gone. And to my mind, can never be returned.



This is a frequent misunderstanding. Her needing to be polyamorous in her relationships does not mean you are "not enough." Everyone has a range of needs and one person cannot fulfill them all for another. It is simply unreasonable and dangerous to think so. That is why mono people also have friends and family to call on, and poly people have additional lovers. I am sure you fulfill every need she has from YOU, but not every need she has. Sure, the needs of a place to stay, the needs of someone to help raise our child, the need of a shoulder to cry on. I know I fulfill those needs adequately. No vacation boyfriend need do such things. I know I can never be more than one person, and that alone is enough to know that I am not enough. However, it doesn't matter terribly whether feeling of not being enough is founded on reason or insecurity. It exists, and reason, exploration, or reassurance can never remove it. Only smother it until it is a nagging whisper in the back of your head.

As for lovers and friends, that's right. I don't need someone to be a lover to develop a connection with them. If I seek a new connection, I make a friend. I understand that's not how her mind works though.

Oh, geez, you cannot protect and insulate a child from every negative emotion out there. Children thrive when they are able to meet and deal with challenges. Not saying you should be insensitive to emotions she is faced with, but living a lie and denying your feelings or trying to eradicate them without dealing with them will do your daughter no good. Sometimes you can't be logical in dealing with life. It would be like keeping her "locked away" as if she was Rapunzel and she would become soft and spoiled and unable to face difficult things in life. The best example you can set is to be able to meet the challenges you face, experience your feelings, and handle them.Hmm. Interesting perspective. Must admit, I've been down the same road of thought a hundred times. She will know challenges. She will know discipline. She will know independence. She will not, however, know or be subjected to problems that are between mother and father. Problems of her own I have no doubt she will have enough of, and we will address them as they come, and provide her with the tools and experience to handle each.

As for protecting and insulating my daughter, if I can, I will protect her from every unpleasant or harmful emotion I can. Especially ones of anger towards situational events that will be perceived as against people we both care about.

As for living a lie, if I'm monogamous, what am I doing if I'm being poly?

[BlackUnicorn]

I understand, but she is horny again. For other men, and isn't spending much of that energy (I say much because we've had sex about 4 times in 9 months) on me. And when she does, it's an appeasement so she can go out with someone else.

Who initiates sex, or used to when sex was still happening? Do you think there might be some gender role anxiety going on here? Women are socialized into thinking that they can measure their value as feminine women through men showing sexual interest in them. If you have a great disparity in your interest in sex, she might be looking for that specific validation with other guys.

It's not like she goes in with the intention of leaving just as quickly. She goes in, has her fun, the phenethyleomines (sp?) wear off, and she realizes they are a drunk, or they don't respect her, or they think she's a piece of meat, or they're dumb as a brick, or they think she's property. It's not like she goes in just for the NRE knowingly. She really thinks she's going to make a connection.

Okay, encourage your wife to get on this forum. It sounds like she is doing the same mistakes over and over again, and can't quite put her finger on why she isn't succeeding. Does your wife have self-esteem issues, issues with feeling attractive, especially after the baby, or what?

Well, that poses a problem. A. I work nearly full time, and go to school full time. I also have a child. I don't have that free time. My fiancee however, is a stay at home mom and has all the free time she can ask for. A schedule is almost null and void. I'm afraid I'm just not willing to provide for someone who is only there 5 nights a week when I get home, and then I have to watch the baby on my own, after a 12 hour day the other two nights.

Your husband may be an exception to the data I have collected, but rarely do I see a matriarchal poly family where the husband isn't secretly wishing it wasn't necessary. Also, I fully understand finding out what I want out of life. I've already done so. As little drama as possible. I want to live a life where I can play music, come home to my family after a hard days work, play with my kids, and not have to worry about other people's drama.

By 'matriarchal' poly family do you mean a mono/poly situation where the man is mono and the woman poly? It seems that the two of you are playing out gender roles that don't really fit. You the provider, she the stay at home mum. You the strong and silent man who talks through his music, she the life of the party who makes men wish they were you. I'm just throwing out suggestions here, but I've found that the most unconventional couples can fall into highly dissatisfying traditional gender-role-playing when a child comes along.

Is your wife actively dating now? Frankly, if you want to save your marriage, I think that needs to stop now. She is miserable as are you. Focus on building a strong foundation with her, reconnecting sexually and figuring out what is causing all the drama you so despise (deep down, why is she bringing home all the wrong types?).

However, what is the point of being poly if it is just to have your partner do things that hurt you, with no benefit to yourself. There would be literally no benefit to me if I don't date as well. The small chance I could find a girlfriend is the only thing that keeps me optimistic about the whole situation. If I'm supposed to figure this out before I find a girlfriend, then it almost seems a parasitic lifestyle.

I get your point, but right now, are you looking for a gf from a place of anger, resentment and desire to get even with your wife, or from a serious desire and readiness to open your heart for more love in your life?

Once you and lady wife have your things sorted out, your wife has made it through her depression and you have worked over the anger you have, start looking for A STEADY BF aka SECONDARY for your wife. From the local poly community or through internet dating or whatever. Redpepper posted on another thread one woman's 'dating add' for her husband. My advice? Clean the slate now from additional distractions - stop the dating, both of you, until you know what it is that you really want.

[nycindie]

Yeah, I agree that it would be helpful if your fiancee came here and posted her side of the story. You have a good deal of anger going on, and she is being painted as somewhat of a sexual compulsive or rather inconsiderate of you. Not saying that is or isn't true, but it is only your perspective.

You two have choices in front of you. Above everything, your daughter comes first and after that you may want to examine whether or not you want to stay in this relationship at all.

[pheonixaise]

Agreed. There is certainly an amount of anger here. However, we have talked with each other about it last night actually, and come up with a rather decent compromise I believe ^^

Basically, we have decided that her need for sexual expression and NRE may be focused in a day to day lifestyle through other means. Namely, through the fostering of animals and through a home daycare. Turns out, she feels that making those new connections and having something to focus on may be all she needs. However, on vacations to places such as Beltane, Pennsic, and other such camping trips where poly is readily available and accepted by all involved, such adventures will not affect the stability of my life, nor will it leave her with no outlet for her free nature.

This compromise is a wonderful breakthrough in my opinion, because it eliminates most of the anxiety I feel about having to deal with emotion crisis on a somewhat daily basis. I over analyze things, I realize that, and I do have alot of (albeit justified) vehement anger involved through the pains I have suffered (I've done things such as driven her 45 miles to see a boyfriend, where I sat on the front porch while she had sex with him) throughout our relationship.

Wonderful news! A lot of your suggestions helped us come to this conclusion guys! I also wanted to say that I never meant to depict her as in any way cruel or a bad person. She is, with the exception of my daughter, the most wonderful person I've ever met!

[SNeacail]

Basically, we have decided that her need for sexual expression and NRE may be focused in a day to day lifestyle through other means. Namely, through the fostering of animals and through a home daycare.

If she is a stay at home mom she is probably in desperate need of regular ADULT contact. I don't quite understand how giving her more children to take care of and pets will do anything but make the need for adult contact away from kids worse. You mentioned that she as a stay at home mom has all the "free time" she can get. I'm sorry, this was so rude and disrespectful to all stay at home moms who WORK THEIR ASS OFF not only the 12 hours their partners are at work, but all the way through bed time as well. It sounds like you have no respect for her contribution to your household. I find it really sad that you aren't willing to watch the kid or hire a sitter a few nights a week so she can get some outside adult contact (even if it's just going bowling or such with a group of friends).

[pheonixaise]

If she is a stay at home mom she is probably in desperate need of regular ADULT contact. I don't quite understand how giving her more children to take care of and pets will do anything but make the need for adult contact away from kids worse. You mentioned that she as a stay at home mom has all the "free time" she can get. I'm sorry, this was so rude and disrespectful to all stay at home moms who WORK THEIR ASS OFF not only the 12 hours their partners are at work, but all the way through bed time as well. It sounds like you have no respect for her contribution to your household. I find it really sad that you aren't willing to watch the kid or hire a sitter a few nights a week so she can get some outside adult contact (even if it's just going bowling or such with a group of friends).

Oh, my goodness, you're right! That was terrible phrasing on my part! Please forgive me! She works incredibly hard at taking care of the baby. I offer to do that all the time ^^ She goes out and has regular adult contact with friends of hers consistently. I'm really sorry about that, I honestly meant no offense. I fully support the contribution she makes to the household, and anything I said to the otherwise was incredibly poor phrasing on my part!

However, I must add that she is in fact able to go out with the baby whenever she would like, spends plenty of time with other parents and friends, and also goes to her own social gatherings. It is by her choice that she takes the baby with her on most of these ventures, due to our agreed (her suggested) attachment parenting style. Previously, it was entirely her choice to take the baby on dates, and to the homes of her boyfriends. She wanted them to know that she was a parent, and that that came first. She would only engage in physical activity once the baby fell asleep.

I am really very sorry for the misunderstanding. That was terrible of me. I need to be more careful of my phrasing. It's no excuse but I have aspergers, and so sometimes I can be crass without meaning to be so, but that was just awful of me. Please forgive me!

[nycindie]

I work nearly full time, and go to school full time. I also have a child. I don't have that free time. My fiancee however, is a stay at home mom and has all the free time she can ask for. A schedule is almost null and void. I'm afraid I'm just not willing to provide for someone who is only there 5 nights a week when I get home, and then I have to watch the baby on my own, after a 12 hour day the other two nights.

So, you require her to be there seven nights a week, is that it? After a full day's work as a homemaker and mother? Bit of a dictatorship, no?

Yes, I too found this part of your complaint unreasonable, and also wonder if fostering animals and fucking around at Pennsic will really help her. Why not a committed secondary bf for her, who also cares about her as much as you do? Instead of an "outlet" of random sex with whomever she meets at an event? Wouldn't that be a more loving thing for you to be okay with? Wouldn't it be best for your daughter if you both had such stability?

[pheonixaise]

So, you require her to be there seven nights a week, is that it? After a full day's work as a homemaker and mother? Bit of a dictatorship, no?

Yes, I too found this part of your complaint unreasonable, and also wonder if fostering animals and fucking around at Pennsic will really help her. Why not a committed secondary bf for her, who also cares about her as much as you do? Instead of an "outlet" of random sex with whomever she meets at an event? Wouldn't that be a more loving thing for you to be okay with? Wouldn't it be best for your daughter if you both had such stability?

Ok, to answer the first part of your question, no it is not a dictatorship. She decided to be a homemaker, and we share that responsibility as best we can. My schedule is full to the brim, as I go to school during the day, and work until 5 a.m. in the morning at nights to pay our bills. The two days off I get a week, are in fact, times I want to spend with my wife. I do not force her to do so.

Fostering animals will help her express her NRE by allowing her to connect in different ways with different things. She thrives on the connection, something to dote on. She has told me that it has helped before, that getting a new animal has given her the same satisfaction of novelty without the inherent negatives that bother me in poly. As for the "fucking" at Pennsic, her idea entirely. She feels that by getting the emotional connection she needs through animals and other new connections, she can express her physical needs for novelty through, as she called them "Casual flings in an environment where it is understood." She reached this conclusion because, and again, her words not mine, she knows now that her exploration of other relationships, whether I accept it or not, will always be difficult for me. And just as I cannot, in good conscience, keep her from being what she naturally is (poly) she cannot without feeling an immense guilt that would ruin the NRE she was receiving have other relationships in our day-to-day lives. She said that she was afraid of overstepping those boundaries one too many times, and that she wasn't willing to risk our marriage, and wanted to find other outlets.

I find this completely A. Logical, and B. reasonable.

Also, homemaker she is not. Mother she is. I am the cook 7 days a week, and I cook her meals and freeze them. Our roomate does most of the cleaning as well. Currently, her only real contribution is in fact being a mother. And to me, that's the biggest contribution any of us could ever make. I know I couldn't breastfeed our baby 8 times a day. I believe there are 4 kinds of mothers out there. Women who are bad mothers. Women who are good mothers. Women who are great mothers. And last but not least, women who were born to be mothers. My fiancee is one of the last group. She is without a doubt the most caring, attentive, and emotionally intelligent mothers I have ever seen. I might be bias here, but no one will ever convince me of that :P

[BlackUnicorn]

It sounds like what you said it was; a good, if perhaps somewhat temporary, compromise. I'm happy to read that the somewhat wounding (for you both) (compulsive?) dating has been put on hold for now.

Maybe your wife is more equipped and happy with being non-monogamous, not necessarily poly?

[redpepper]

I haven't read everything here. Its sometimes hard to catch up. I will only reply to my thread.

I sense a sort of stubborness to find ways to make this work. There is no room to budge on anything it seems. I feel for you and your situation but it isn't going to change until your attitude changes and you start seeing things in terms of abundance instead of scarcity. There are threads on that if you are interested. A tag search will bring them up.

I can empathize with her. I had aa baby once, I dated and was above board and found most men to be exactly what she is finding. Anyone on here who is dating now would likely say the same.

I still stand by my first post, so I suggest you read it when you are able to read it with a different atitude. Maybe that will help.

[Tonberry]

However, what is the point of being poly if it is just to have your partner do things that hurt you, with no benefit to yourself.

But if you're mono, then being poly is NOT a benefit to you. It might make things worse for you, in any case won't help, and would hurt another woman. Right now I'm wondering if you're not trying to get some revenge or some thing. A kind of "you're hurting me? Well I'll do the same thing, see how you like it!". Except it's probable it won't hurt her the way it hurts you since she's not mono.

I've heard of plenty of mono/poly relationships, but I haven't heard of a mono being poly because he's with a poly. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, really.

You think there are no benefits to you staying with her? (Because she's made up your mind, she's poly and is going to live it, so that's really your choice: either you stay, or you go). There are advantages to your staying. Being with a woman you love. Being with your baby.
There are advantages to her being poly. That means you don't have to carry the financial burden on your own (provided she finds another stable relationship, I guess). That means help caring for your child. Just like you can care for the child while she's out on a date with her boyfriend, her boyfriend can care for the child while she's out on a date with you.
You can see her happy instead of miserable.

If none of these make up for the sacrifices you feel you have to make, then by all means, don't stay. But please don't drag someone else into this just because you want as big a piece of cake as your wife, even though you don't even like cake.

[pheonixaise]

But if you're mono, then being poly is NOT a benefit to you. It might make things worse for you, in any case won't help, and would hurt another woman. Right now I'm wondering if you're not trying to get some revenge or some thing. A kind of "you're hurting me? Well I'll do the same thing, see how you like it!". Except it's probable it won't hurt her the way it hurts you since she's not mono.

I've heard of plenty of mono/poly relationships, but I haven't heard of a mono being poly because he's with a poly. It sounds like a recipe for disaster, really.

You think there are no benefits to you staying with her? (Because she's made up your mind, she's poly and is going to live it, so that's really your choice: either you stay, or you go). There are advantages to your staying. Being with a woman you love. Being with your baby.
There are advantages to her being poly. That means you don't have to carry the financial burden on your own (provided she finds another stable relationship, I guess). That means help caring for your child. Just like you can care for the child while she's out on a date with her boyfriend, her boyfriend can care for the child while she's out on a date with you.
You can see her happy instead of miserable.

If none of these make up for the sacrifices you feel you have to make, then by all means, don't stay. But please don't drag someone else into this just because you want as big a piece of cake as your wife, even though you don't even like cake.

Ok. I'm getting mildly tired of saying this. I WON'T, I repeat, WON'T get into a relationship until I find someone that I feel a real connection with. That means that I won't date until I actually FIND that connection. I'm not going to do something like jump into a relationship out of spite. I have too much respect for the other person. I've had the opportunity. Believe me. However, I have always said no because I either don't feel a connection, don't find them interesting, or don't find them physically attractive. Without all three of those, I won't enter into a relationship. Imagine, if I were to date someone I found attractive physically and emotionally, but couldn't have a conversation with. How would I tell them that? What about someone physically and mentally attractive? How would I tell them that I wasn't feeling a connection? And last but not least, what if they were emotionally and mentally attractive, but not physically attractive. I certainly wouldn't be the one to say when they want to take our relationship to a physical level "No, so, I don't want to because...."

I simply will not be that person. Never have been that person, and never will. But I'm also not going to be monogamous while she is poly. It would break my brain in ways I can't really describe. However, I make this promise now, I will not date someone until our relationship is better, and I won't date someone until I feel a REAL connection.

[pheonixaise]

I haven't read everything here. Its sometimes hard to catch up. I will only reply to my thread.

I sense a sort of stubborness to find ways to make this work. There is no room to budge on anything it seems. I feel for you and your situation but it isn't going to change until your attitude changes and you start seeing things in terms of abundance instead of scarcity. There are threads on that if you are interested. A tag search will bring them up.

I can empathize with her. I had aa baby once, I dated and was above board and found most men to be exactly what she is finding. Anyone on here who is dating now would likely say the same.

I still stand by my first post, so I suggest you read it when you are able to read it with a different atitude. Maybe that will help.

These are the exact kinds of polarized views I wasn't looking for. I read your post, and I must say that this is a philosophy. A philosophy is as sound as the people who follow it, and as varied as the names of the people involved. I'm sorry, but I don't believe in abundance, because there are 24 hours in a day, and no one can change that. Scarcity is a fact of life. We are not immortal, and have a set amount of time on this planet. I will admit, that requires a certain level of freedom of choice, but I am not unwilling to budge on anything. What I'm unwilling to do is silently suffer.

I've walked in on my fiancee in bed with my best friend. The man who was going to be the best man at my wedding, with no prior notice. I have had her fight with me about how I swept the floor before going out on a date, leaving me to seethe at the thought of playing out oh so many of my favorite songs. I've had her cut a man's name who broke up with her into her arm directly after we had sex, and cry the rest of the night. I'm bitter, yes. Because I have actually been hurt. And I am not a masochist.

However, I would like to say this now, unless you're not going to approach this with a "Change your attitude, you inconsiderate bastard" approach, please don't post here. I told you I compromised, and I realize that most people here are of her philosophy, so I don't expect supporters of monogamy, but at least be considerate of the fact that I think differently, and am legitimately trying to change.

But also know that it isn't easy.

[Tonberry]

However, I make this promise now, I will not date someone until our relationship is better, and I won't date someone until I feel a REAL connection.

That's good, but I think our confusion comes from the fact that you said you are mono. And, well... It seems to me, if you are mono, feeling a real connection with someone else, as you say, is impossible.
I'm sorry if I sound demoralising, I just don't want you to get into that wild goose chase. Certainly, you are free to ask her to give you the same rights that she has, but it looks like you are... well, dreaming a bit.

I mean, if I said, as a poly, that I'd wait to find the one person that makes me not need to be poly anymore... people would tell me I've gone crazy. It won't happen.

Right now you sound to me a bit like... I know, imagine my boyfriend is bisexual, and I decide that since he gets to have sex with both genders, I will too. But because I don't want to hurt anyone, I'll wait to have a real connection with a woman, emotionally, intellectually and physically.
That's not going to happen. I'm straight. The odds against that are astronomical.

I guess they're not of zero, though. And if it helps you to know you have the same right she does, good for you. I just have a bad feeling about it, I guess. I'm worried you'll wait for things to magically get better and they won't.

I still wish you the best of luck about it. I could very well be completely off-base, after all.

[redpepper]

I didn't say you are a bastard :) quite the contrary, you are hurt. I get that. I just don't see what I can offer if you have already decided that you are right and I am wrong. I offered my thoughts and you disagree. That is fine, but please don't assume you know that I am wrong. You obviously have not read anything I have written or you would know that I know a great deal about what you are talking about and am willing to share what I have learned because of it. All I'm saying is it sounds like you are stuck in your anger and when you are done, I would be more than willing to ebgage you. For now I will leave it to others.

Do me a favour though. Please don't assume I know nothing of what you are going through and am full of shit. If you have read anything of what I have written about myself for two years here (see how many posts in the right hand corner?) You will see I have a few years on your story. Mine was very similar.

Good luck to you. Take care of your baby girl. I can see why you would worry about her.

[pheonixaise]

That's good, but I think our confusion comes from the fact that you said you are mono. And, well... It seems to me, if you are mono, feeling a real connection with someone else, as you say, is impossible.
I'm sorry if I sound demoralising, I just don't want you to get into that wild goose chase. Certainly, you are free to ask her to give you the same rights that she has, but it looks like you are... well, dreaming a bit.

I mean, if I said, as a poly, that I'd wait to find the one person that makes me not need to be poly anymore... people would tell me I've gone crazy. It won't happen.

Right now you sound to me a bit like... I know, imagine my boyfriend is bisexual, and I decide that since he gets to have sex with both genders, I will too. But because I don't want to hurt anyone, I'll wait to have a real connection with a woman, emotionally, intellectually and physically.
That's not going to happen. I'm straight. The odds against that are astronomical.

I guess they're not of zero, though. And if it helps you to know you have the same right she does, good for you. I just have a bad feeling about it, I guess. I'm worried you'll wait for things to magically get better and they won't.

I still wish you the best of luck about it. I could very well be completely off-base, after all.

Ok, that was much better for me. When I don't feel like I'm being attacked, I have a much better chance of understanding where you are coming from.

Here is my theory. I haven't yet found someone who I could be in a relationship with while I am with my fiancee. However, I have felt certain kinds of different connections, and at its core, I believe that having multiple connections is not wrong.

That would be the reason why I haven't left my fiancee, and why I dated her in the first place. On paper, the theory is fine, and while a little outlandish and occasionally farfetched with little to no logical backing it has a massive amount of emotional backing.

My theory, and again, I could be wrong as well, is that when someone comes along (and I have ridiculously high standards that, trust me, I've tried to lower) that I feel really attached to, or put it this way, that I would date if I were single (As a mono person, that's kind of how I relate it) and they are ok with poly, then who knows? Based on my acceptance of the mindset as it is on paper, a positive piece of empirical evidence to suggest that it can in fact, be positive for me as well, may be all I need to say "Wait a minute! This NRE stuff is great, and I can now see where my fiancee is coming from!"

I haven't had that yet, and as much as a realize why it is such a drug for her, it still hurts tremendously to have it right there for me to see all the time, and yet don't retain any of the positive myself.

I have a theory that one can bolster NRE with more NRE. That is that the natural irrationality, or predisposition to ignoring negative qualities once mutuality in a relationship is established, can be compensated for by focusing those portions of your attention on the other NRE.

For example, if I like football (soccer over here) and my fiancee doesn't, but my theoretical second girlfriend does, when I want to catch a match, I would catch it with my second girlfriend. If my second girlfriend hates horror movies, and my fiancee doesn't, then I'll watch horror with my fiancee.

It's still just a theory, but I am actually working at giving this whole thing a shot. It just requires me finding a logical reason to put myself on the train tracks again.

[pheonixaise]

I didn't say you are a bastard :) quite the contrary, you are hurt. I get that. I just don't see what I can offer if you have already decided that you are right and I am wrong. I offered my thoughts and you disagree. That is fine, but please don't assume you know that I am wrong. You obviously have not read anything I have written or you would know that I know a great deal about what you are talking about and am willing to share what I have learned because of it. All I'm saying is it sounds like you are stuck in your anger and when you are done, I would be more than willing to ebgage you. For now I will leave it to others.

Do me a favour though. Please don't assume I know nothing of what you are going through and am full of shit. If you have read anything of what I have written about myself for two years here (see how many posts in the right hand corner?) You will see I have a few years on your story. Mine was very similar.

Good luck to you. Take care of your baby girl. I can see why you would worry about her. I apologize, I don't think you or full of shit, or that you are wrong. I suppose my biggest question, stepping out of my defense and anger, is if you have been dealing with similar problems for two years, what is the point of the complexity?

[Magdlyn]

Hi, I'd like to chime in.

I want to go back to what you said about your earlier life. You had 12 sexual relationships, but weren't gratified. Until the 12th one, with your current partner. You also mentioned having Aspergers. One of the possible ways Aspergers can manifest is in missing social cues, and another is in taking a large interest in some topics or hobbies, to the point of rigidity or seeming obsession. (My gf's nephew is obsessed with electric fans, a nephew of mine with making paper cut out dolls. My dad is obsessed with NASCAR, etc., etc.)

So... for whatever reason, no woman satisfied you sexually until you met your fiancee. I am thinking she is highly sexual, and this brought out your reluctant libido...

Maybe *she* isnt satisfied with *your* lukewarm libido, and needs a more highly sexual partner. IMO (sorry Cindie), trips to poly fertility festivals occasionally, such as Beltane (yeehah!), or role playing networks like SCAA could work to give her a hit of sexy fun time in the midst of feeling like a hardworking drudge (I've been a stay at home mom, I know).

As far as dating, we've had threads here on how women do get hit on more, but so many men are unsuitable, we may be able to find a short term sexy dating partner, but finding real love is just as hard for us as it is for men.

If you are working and at school most of the week, are you able to meet her need to feel sexy, young and desirable, or is that a stretch for you? How does your Asperger's condition affect the relationship, if it does?

[Penny]

Your story is coming out in pieces, so it is hard not to come to the wrong conclusions. Your tone comes off as pretty confrontational, but as you explain more and give us more details, that tone becomes understandable.

It seems to me that you are attempting to mask justifiable outrage under a veneer of logic.

What I'm hearing is that your fiancee has cheated, is possibly an NRE junkie, and has done little to earn your trust after breaking it many times. It sounds to me like she has abused your willingness to be accommodating to her and your desire to make her happy.

She does not sound polyamorous to me, and so your questions about polyamory in this context are impossible to answer properly.

Though I do believe Magdlyn's comments above are pretty insightful and bear consideration.

[pheonixaise]

Hi, I'd like to chime in.

I want to go back to what you said about your earlier life. You had 12 sexual relationships, but weren't gratified. Until the 12th one, with your current partner. You also mentioned having Aspergers. One of the possible ways Aspergers can manifest is in missing social cues, and another is in taking a large interest in some topics or hobbies, to the point of rigidity or seeming obsession. (My gf's nephew is obsessed with electric fans, a nephew of mine with making paper cut out dolls. My dad is obsessed with NASCAR, etc., etc.)

So... for whatever reason, no woman satisfied you sexually until you met your fiancee. I am thinking she is highly sexual, and this brought out your reluctant libido...

Maybe *she* isnt satisfied with *your* lukewarm libido, and needs a more highly sexual partner. IMO (sorry Cindie), trips to poly fertility festivals occasionally, such as Beltane (yeehah!), or role playing networks like SCAA could work to give her a hit of sexy fun time in the midst of feeling like a hardworking drudge (I've been a stay at home mom, I know).

As far as dating, we've had threads here on how women do get hit on more, but so many men are unsuitable, we may be able to find a short term sexy dating partner, but finding real love is just as hard for us as it is for men.

If you are working and at school most of the week, are you able to meet her need to feel sexy, young and desirable, or is that a stretch for you? How does your Asperger's condition affect the relationship, if it does?

Ok, I know that wasn't meant to be spikey, and was said with the best of intentions. Thank you ^^ As someone with aspergers (though I will say this now, it is very mild. I don't have obsessions, and I catch most social ques now due to intense study) I readily accept constructive criticism. As for it affecting our relationship, it doesn't in terms of us. It does in fact make some difference socially, but not with her, as she seems to identify with it in a way. As for making her feel young and sexy, I'm not really sure I am fit to answer that. However, I will say that my "reluctant" libido is not something that causes me to not pursue her. In fact, it is quite the opposite. While I don't need it, and have never felt like I need it (meaning I have gone 3 years with having absolutely no desire to fulfill any sexual actions) I do readily accept it, and more often than she currently wants to, I do initiate and try my best to make her feel young, sexy and desirable. I tell her consistently how beautiful she is, both physically and emotionally, and her friends tell me constantly (some of them poly who are hinting at something) how wonderful I make her feel sexually, how much I take foreplay into account, etc. etc.

That being said, I don't actually know. She could be saying it to make me feel good, or her friends could be lying. I believe I'm doing a good enough job, but again, she would be the only one who would know.

Thank you for your post!

[Magdlyn]

Sorry for the double post, but this thread is moving fast. As I was writing, you mentioned your wife cut a lover's name into her arm. And she is struggling with depression as well, and using NRE to mask her pain?

Hmmm, some deep stuff going on here... kinda scary. Did you know she was a cutter all the time?

Did you know being a NRE junkie is not being poly?

As others here have said, it would be interesting to have your fiancee post here as well.

[pheonixaise]

Your story is coming out in pieces, so it is hard not to come to the wrong conclusions. Your tone comes off as pretty confrontational, but as you explain more and give us more details, that tone becomes understandable.

It seems to me that you are attempting to mask justifiable outrage under a veneer of logic.

What I'm hearing is that your fiancee has cheated, is possibly an NRE junkie, and has done little to earn your trust after breaking it many times. It sounds to me like she has abused your willingness to be accommodating to her and your desire to make her happy.

She does not sound polyamorous to me, and so your questions about polyamory in this context are impossible to answer properly.

Though I do believe Magdlyn's comments above are pretty insightful and bear consideration.

That's a rather interesting perspective. I don't actually believe she cheated because she never did anything to knowingly break my trust or hurt me. At least no more so than knowing I wouldn't be happy about it, but in her defense, I wouldn't be happy to know that she's sleeping with someone else, even if I accept it.

I agree that her comments do indeed beg consideration. ^^

[Penny]

I don't actually believe she cheated because she never did anything to knowingly break my trust or hurt me.

It was not clear from your post that, when you walked in on her with your best friend, you were aware that she was with him beforehand.

I agree with those who think she is not actually polyamorous. It does sound like she is using NRE like a drug.

[TruckerPete]

So the part about pets and getting them has kind of struck home here.

I have a parrot, four cats, and two dogs. I love them all, but I do wish I'd figured out how to be poly sooner. They are not people. And trust me, there will be pet NRE too. You will probably find yourself collecting them while your wife struggles to understand why some basic need is not met. Trust me, another pet does not fill the void permanently.

I tried the pet thing. It doesn't work.

[pheonixaise]

Sorry for the double post, but this thread is moving fast. As I was writing, you mentioned your wife cut a lover's name into her arm. And she is struggling with depression as well, and using NRE to mask her pain?

Hmmm, some deep stuff going on here... kinda scary. Did you know she was a cutter all the time?

Did you know being a NRE junkie is not being poly?

As others here have said, it would be interesting to have your fiancee post here as well.
I'm sorry, timeline might help. She had the lover that she cut into her arm before she became pregnant, became depressed when he left her (A 4 week relationship, I would like to add) and that was the first time she had ever cut. She would probably kill me if she knew I told people, but it's difficult to get help with a partial story.

As for NRE junkie, I did know that is not being poly, but the difference is, if the person doesn't turn out to be an asshole after she has had her fun, she doesn't leave them once the NRE fades. She simply doesn't listen to people when they say "Hey, that guy literally told me that he wants to make you leave your husband" and responds with "Oh, I'm sure he didn't mean it like that"

Those kinds of comments are what make me afraid to throw myself under another bus. Still got the tire tracks from the last 18 wheeler, lol.

[pheonixaise]

It was not clear from your post that, when you walked in on her with your best friend, you were aware that she was with him beforehand.

I agree with those who think she is not actually polyamorous. It does sound like she is using NRE like a drug.

Oh, I didn't know she would be, but she took asking if she could go to a movie with him as my consent to date him. She didn't see him again afterwards, it was a misunderstanding, but it did catch me completely off guard :P

[Penny]

Oh, I didn't know she would be, but she took asking if she could go to a movie with him as my consent to date him. She didn't see him again afterwards, it was a misunderstanding, but it did catch me completely off guard :P

Um... wow. Dude.

She took you saying it was okay to go to a movie with him as permission to fuck him?

Am I missing something here?

She sounds pretty messed up. The cutting, after a four week relationship, fucking the friend, pretty much everything you've said so far makes me think she is in serious need of psychological help.

[pheonixaise]

Um... wow. Dude.

She took you saying it was okay to go to a movie with him as permission to fuck him?

Am I missing something here?

She sounds pretty messed up. The cutting, after a four week relationship, fucking the friend, pretty much everything you've said so far makes me think she is in serious need of psychological help.

Um... maybe I'm not explaining this right? She is sane, I know that for a fact. She didn't MEAN to fuck him. He wanted to, started doing things, and got into the moment. As for the cutting and that, I'm sure it was just a moment of weakness. He was the guy who opened her to poly. He presented this whole world of love to her without any kind of responsibility to him. She was very into this guy because he was like a mentor to her. Granted, their relationship didn't last long, he was married with a daughter, and eventually after he offered her to be his second wife, he dumped her after she met me, saying he "no longer felt she needed him to hold her up anymore, because she had someone who cared about me enough to do it for him"

Trust me, it could be the influences that she has had so far, but she is not crazy, nor is she intentionally hurting me. Of that, I am certain. She recognizes when she does something, and tries really hard to avoid any situations of the like. Hence the compromise.

[Penny]

She didn't MEAN to fuck him. He wanted to, started doing things, and got into the moment. As for the cutting and that, I'm sure it was just a moment of weakness.

That is NOT healthy behavior. Please, just look at what you are saying.

She didn't MEAN to fuck him.

The cutting was just a moment of weakness.

This stuff has so much power over her, she is not in control of her own actions at the moment? That is not healthy.

[TruckerPete]

Unless you are being raped, you don't accidentally fuck people.

Sorry, but it sounds like you are being used.

[pheonixaise]

Unless you are being raped, you don't accidentally fuck people.

Sorry, but it sounds like you are being used.

Um....well, she did feel really bad about it, didn't do it again, and it hasn't been an issue before...however, she has even been known to get that into a situation with me in public. She does just kind of get carried away. I don't think I'm being used, just a misunderstanding....

If I were being used, she would be wanting to openly date again.

[Magdlyn]

Wow, what they said, plus-- you 2 have only been together 2 years, and have a 9 month old. So she got pregnant 6 months into your relationship. And dated the whole time as well, while in NRE with you, and also while pregnant?

And your best friend? Just got his rocks off when they had permission from you for a movie date? What was *he* thinking?

If you want to protect your daughter, set some firmer boundaries... like yesterday. She mightve been hiding her tendency to self harm, people do that (I know, my daughter hid it from our family for YEARS).

[Penny]

That is so totally not just a misunderstanding. And mentally healthy people don't act like that. Period.

[pheonixaise]

Wow, what they said, plus-- you 2 have only been together 2 years, and have a 9 month old. So she got pregnant 6 months into your relationship. And dated the whole time as well, while in NRE with you, and also while pregnant?

And your best friend? Just got his rocks off when they had permission from you for a movie date? What was *he* thinking?

If you want to protect your daughter, set some firmer boundaries... like yesterday. She mightve been hiding her tendency to self harm, people do that (I know, my daughter hid it from our family for YEARS).

Yeah, well I guess I didn't mention this, she DIDN'T date while pregnant, just intensely before and quite a bit afterwards. You have to understand, she isn't a bad person, only did the cutting thing one time before she got pregnant, and had been in a physical relationship with my friend before she got pregnant. It's a lot of backstory I thought I had mentioned (He was the same guy I sat out on the porch while she had sex with)

I don't feel like I'm being used, and I don't feel like she did any of this with an intent to harm me. I'm sorry if it came off that way.

As for firmer boundries, they have already been set. We are monogamous except for at these vacation times. It's not an issue anymore as I see it. Not until she gets to that event and then realizes she wants that all the time.

[Penny]

I am not saying she is a bad person, just that her behavior is so strongly indicative of someone who needs to see a therapist or other mental health professional that it boggles the mind.

Her behavior is not healthy, and you are not helping her by downplaying that.

Having mental health problems does not make someone a bad person.

[pheonixaise]

I am not saying she is a bad person, just that her behavior is so strongly indicative of someone who needs to see a therapist or other mental health professional that it boggles the mind.

Her behavior is not healthy, and you are not helping her by downplaying that.

Having mental health problems does not make someone a bad person.

Well, I may mention it. She DID in fact see someone about her post-partum, but I don't know if they discussed the cutting or anything else. I'll ask her at some point here soon. I KNOW they didn't discuss the best friend thing, but still, that really was a one time temptation as far as I can see. I'm not downplaying it, I was livid, but it's been a few months, and I've tried to forgive her.

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, well I guess I didn't mention this, she DIDN'T date while pregnant, just intensely before and quite a bit afterwards.

So she dated other men intensely while still in NRE with you. And then in the 9ish months since, continued, while also practicing attachment parenting and bringing your infant daughter on dates with random unsuitable guys.

hmmm...


You have to understand, she isn't a bad person

No one is saying she is crazy or bad or that you are a bastard. Those words are coming from you. She might be neurotic and your relationship seems very confused at best. If you both have Asperger's, as you have implied, I'd say, proceed with caution in the poly world.


As for firmer boundries, they have already been set. We are monogamous except for at these vacation times. It's not an issue anymore as I see it. Not until she gets to that event and then realizes she wants that all the time.

Well then, it's not really settled, is it?

[redpepper]

we forgot one here... it sounds like you drove her to a date that was far away and sat outside while she fucked the guy?

I caught up,,, finally ;)

I apologize, I don't think you or full of shit, or that you are wrong. I suppose my biggest question, stepping out of my defense and anger, is if you have been dealing with similar problems for two years, what is the point of the complexity? I changed my mind. I am not at all like her. Similarities: Attachment parenting, lots of dates, and having a mono partner... that is where it ends.

I never went on dates with baby in tow. I didn't start dating again until my boy was three and I no longer required the boob to fall asleep at night. I never slept with men on first or second dates and only did with consent from my husband who did not take the decision lightly. It seems to me that for you a "date" means that there will be sex, is that right?

I went on many many many dates where none of the men were suitable. One man showed up with food down his never washed shirt and track pants that were also never washed. He had greasy hair and was generally unkept. He asked if I wanted to go back to his place and look at his tool collection before his landlord kicked him out. Nice catch huh.... I would NEVER EVER EVER think I was obliged to have sex with him or have sex with him because he was.... well.... there... and I was horny. I am worried about your woman there my friend. Her mental health in this is sounding rather imbalanced. I won't even go into the cutting and other stuff...

I have a mono partner too and a husband as well as two others. The furthest thing from my mind is to make their lives uncomfortable because of my notions of what I need. I have to really NEEEEEEED something in order to feel that I have to demand it. Most of the time I can either wait until they have caught up, my kid is not there, the person I want to be with is appropriate and desirable, treats me well and knows my loves already. I have waited years and been patient and have made sure that EVERY moment has come at the right time... with all my ducks in a row. I wonder if your partner has ever considered this rather than the rash decisions she seems to be making... (check this thread for some ideas on how to create a poly foundation that is sustainable http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2755)

Has she had any consideration for you in this? I don't see how she is not using you. Others have said this too I realize, its just that I don't hear any moment where she has acted with you in mind. I know you think she is a good mother, but to bring a child on a fuck date is not keeping her child in mind. Is she going to carry that on when the child is older?

I will give you my opinion again, in hopes that this time you will consider what I say rather than blow me off. I suggest that you re-read what I wrote before as some of it still stands. Especially the part about dividing time. I hear that you work and are a student... my example was just that, an example. You know what times work better.

You really haven't been together long and most of that time has been with child. I would wonder how much you really know each other. I still think that at least one date with her a week and one date night for her is appropriate for a family just starting out... the rest of the time is taken up. I get that. You haven't mentioned the time you spend with her romantically. This is important to your connection with her. I have heard nothing of that in what you say. You might be Aspy (sp?) but she isn't, she likely needs to connect with you. It seems so if she is out constantly looking for that and trying to find it by fucking all her dates....

Oh ya, dates. Dates are not meant to necessarily be about sex. First dates are generally for discovering if you like someone, second ones generally for getting to know them more and perhaps an intro to other partners. Third dates are mostly for after an intro to other partners and then for sex.... all generally speaking of course, but she is going from zero to a hundred miles an hour without considering anyone but herself. You can have a voice about that, yet you seem kind of nonchalant.

You don't seem to get that there is something not healthy about her sex life and attachment to these men she meets that seem to treat her badly... I wonder if you decided to put your foot down if you would find she has some relief in that she can rely on you to be some what of a guardian for a behaviour that is almost obsessive at this point.

A lot of people have had major concerns here and have given you lots to think about, I hope you are getting something from that. I too agree that hearing her side would be helpful. It's all very well to speculate what might be going on for her, but really we will never know until she decides to tell us as you are not her and have your own take on what has transpired.

[Penny]

Although my educational background is in psychology, it is not in clinical psych, and no qualified therapist would attempt a diagnosis based only on second-hand information. That being said, your wife sounds uncannily like a textbook case of histrionic personality disorder. I suggest you look that term up if you are unfamiliar with it as it may give you some insight.

I am very concerned for both the long term welfare of your daughter. Please take seriously the reactions you are getting here from us. We are sex-friendly, open-minded, and tolerant of lifestyles that would be rejected by the bulk of mainstream society. We have no reason to attack you or your fiancee.

Please don't dismiss our concern.

My husband says you should take your daughter and run because this woman will destroy your life and screw up your kid. He is horrified.

I would not go so far as to say that, though I am not sure if this is because I believe you would reject such advice and react by closing your mind to the warnings here, or if it is because I am less pessimistic. I am leaning toward the former.

[pheonixaise]

I appreciate everyone's advice here, and would just like to say two things.

A. She does not sleep with everyone she goes on a date with. But it has been established that if she does, it isn't my business to tell her she can't.

B. I will seriously consider asking her to see a counselor, and will take everyone's opinions into account.

[BlackUnicorn]

A good thing!

How old are you people? Not that chronological age always lines up perfectly with emotional maturity, but your girl seems a bit... childish, if that is an English word. And it would make a world of difference whether she is 20 or 30 years old in exhibiting these behaviors and reactions. She might be having a personality and/or mood disorder, or she might just be very very young. Whatever it is, I think you are taking the right steps in stopping the dating and seeking out help for her.

And yes, pets/additional foster children are a bit hazardous at this point, after reading the full back story. Trust TruckerPete; bringing in more live beings to be taken care of will just mean more work for you.

What your fiancee is lacking in her life and what she is trying desperately to find is not more love; it's more self-love.