Beo's Log, Stardate....Today.

[Beodude123]

Since Jen has her own thing on here, I think I'll make my own, that way I can post updates without bogging hers down.


Anyways, I guess I'll start from the beginning, and kind of jump to now. I'm 28 years old, married to Jen for almost 7 years, and we have two kids. Girl and boy, 3 and 18 months respectively.


I had a friend at work that I became very close with quickly, and he came over a few times. He came over again in January, and we were all being flirty (drinking too). When we were going to bed, Jen asked if she could kiss him. Not really knowing what she meant, I said "sure". They pretty much proceeded to make out. I eventually said "okay okay", and we went to bed.

A couple days later, Jen and I were texting, and she said she found something called polyamory. She told me what it was about etc... I kind of had a hard time understanding it (still do haha), but she seemed pretty into it. So I said we could give it a try.

Jen isn't exactly the most patient person, and I hadn't really read much on here, so we pretty much bear blasted on into it. Kissing, playing around (no intercourse), the works. I kind of felt a little overwhelmed, but Jen kept reassuring me that everything was fine, and that she loves me. So we kept going.

The next time James came over, we had another threesome, and after I was done, I went out into the living room. I wasn't really doing anything, just kind of waiting for them to be done. Jen came in the room, and asked if they could do it. I said no, and she went back in the room. That kind of sent me off into a weird place. I stared at a vent pretty much the whole time, trying to figure out everything. The vent seemed good, because it had many sides, just like the situation.

We talked for a good while after, and I was feeling a bit more positive again. Jen and I kept talking, and we had very good communication about everything. I was still having trouble with a lot of things, but it seemed like I was working through them pretty well. Jealousy hadn't really reared it's ugly head, and Jen and I were closer than ever before.

A couple weeks later, she asked about the no intercourse boundary again. I told her I still wasn't really all that comfortable with it, and we talked about it for a while. I told her I was scared that it would diminish what we have. She said it wouldn't, and that the only way to get rid of the fear was to have it happen. I reluctantly said yes, since I knew it was going to keep coming up.

This whole time, I had kind of been back and forth between wanting poly to work for us, and not wanting it. I was feeling different myself. Kind of detached a bit, but not really all that bad. I was a bit more irritable as well. I had been drinking quite a bit, so that could have something to do with that... But more on that later.

Anyways, the day that James was going to come over, they ended up not doing it. It was a relief for me, but it was still on the table. I started feeling more detached, more tired, more irritable... Drinking more. We kept talking, but it wasn't quite on the level that it was before, or at least not as much. More back and forth on my part, which was tearing me up, because I'm usually a pretty solid person. When I make up my mind, it pretty much stays made up.

Fast forward to these last couple weeks. I had a long week at work, without much sleep, and on Friday J was coming over. Before he came, I told her I couldn't do it, that it was tearing me up. Bad timing, I know, but I couldn't help the way I felt. Jen said that we should just get through the night, and talk in the morning. We eventually decided that a month seemed fair to see if it would work. I told her I would try my best to remain positive, and off we went.

Jealousy started coming up at this point. J was coming over for dinner (which in itself didn't bother me, since I work swings), but the nice meals kind of made me -_-.... Not that she doesn't make me nice meals, but you know how it goes. You only really make note of it when it's for somebody else. More back and forths, more drinking, more tired.

James came over again on a Friday, but I was pretty tired (and feeling cranky), so I went to bed pretty early. I woke back up early, and couldn't go back to bed. I was feeling more disconnected with everything, and even kind of starting to feel uncomfortable at home. It kind of felt like Jen was a different person... Maybe it was me? We made love one time, and she said it didn't feel like I was there, like it was a different person. She said I had been aggressive, which wasn't like me. That hurt me a lot, since it got called off in the middle... A few days later, pretty much the same thing happened.

At this point I was feeling pretty crappy, since I felt emotionally disconnected, and now there was a physical disconnect. I didn't know what to do with myself at home. Usually I play games to relax, but I hadn't really been in the mood to play for a while. So when I needed to do something with my hands, I cleaned. It gave me something to do, at least, and kept my mind off things. At this point, I was pretty depressed about everything. I felt like I was losing Jen, and I was feeling a lot of anxiety about it.

So Thursday rolls around, and J came over for dinner. He didn't have to come in on the next shift, so he was at home when I got off. It was a pretty stressful day at work, and I was jamming pretty hard for about 7 hours straight. I came home exhausted, and jealousy was waiting for me. The nice dinner again, but food was left out. A couple of other things stressed me out even more. Jen was in the other room with J, and she wanted me to snuggle. I wanted to go to bed more than anything else, but I had obliged. I snuggled for about 1 minute and a half, on the dot. I wasn't feeling very comfortable, so I removed myself from the situation. I went out into the kitchen and cleaned up some things. My hands needed something to do... So I tried to keep them busy. After that, I climbed in bed, but I couldn't sleep. I sent Jen a couple of texts (she was still in the room with J) asking if she could come in the room. Her phone was wedged in something, and she didn't hear it. When I didn't get a response, I was pretty upset. I told her nevermind... Still nothing.

At that point, I was kind of freaking out. I couldn't stop moving my hands. So I went back out into the kitchen to do some more cleaning. I don't think it was very productive though. I hung up some keys, and wiped up a bit. Then I went back into bed. I couldn't sit still, so I asked Jen if she could come in. I spent about 10 minutes having a panic attack or something... Couldn't stop moving my hands.

After I calmed down, Jen said she couldn't do this to me, and told J it wasn't going to work. We both cried a lot, and went to bed. I was sort of happy that a very specific focus for my negativity was gone, but I was so tired I didn't have much time to reflect on it. The next day I get the kids in the morning, and I'm pretty much crying the whole morning. I felt like a terrible person. Jen had to give up something that made her happy for me. Since I can't be happy if Jen isn't happy.... I was trying to think of compromises. The panic attack really scared me, since I'm not the type of person that freaks out about things. I started to think about what I've been doing with my life.

After Jen got up, we talked a lot about everything. I could tell she was pretty sad about having to give it up. She said we would take a big step back. I told her I wanted to clear my head, and quit drinking, because I knew I had been drinking a lot. She was pretty upset that I didn't do that before, but I hadn't really thought about it, you know? The panic thing made me think a lot about everything. I really started realizing what I had been doing to myself, to J, and to Jen. Made me feel pretty terrible.

We talked a lot more, and decided that Jen needed to experience poly (especially sine it hadn't even been a month yet). Marriage is about compromises after all.

We haven't talked about what exactly is going to be on the plate for J and Jen, but this time it's going to be at my pace. I think jumping head first into everything was just too much for me to take. I always told Jen I wanted to make it work for us, because I could tell how happy it made her. So now we have to figure out what everybody is comfortable with...


Sorry for the book, but I figured I'd cover all the bases, and give an update on everything.

[LovingRadiance]

Trekky?

[Beodude123]

Not really, but I am a dork. So it works out. Haha

[LovingRadiance]

Haha, took me three times of reading the title to fgiure out it wasn't a typo. I actually read it OUT LOUD and then it clicked into my mind.
I haven't had television in 15 years. ;)

[Beodude123]

I've been doing a lot of pretty deep introspection the last couple days, and a word that has kind of popped into my head is codependancy. I'm pretty sure I am a codependant person. I think it contributes a lot of my fear of loss and change, no matter how irrational. Right now, it feels like I want to get as much of Jen's time as I can. She makes me happy, so why not, right?

But how does one battle that?

[Beodude123]

All I have to say, self realization is a pain! After much thinking today, I think I've made some good progress. I'll cut and paste the good bits from an email I sent to Jen... But I think I'm finally getting there.

From my mental flow chart, a lot of my issues are stemming from codependance. At least knowing that will help me start correcting the problem.

[SNeacail]

All I have to say, self realization is a pain!

Isn't that the truth.

[Beodude123]

So yeah, I'm pretty sure I'm codependant. It's kind of always something that's been there, but it never really seemed to be a problem. But now, since I'm not the one-stop-shop for all that is man, I feel threatened by it.

At least knowledge of why I have been reacting the way I have will help me to combat it. It's definitely going to take some time for me to figure it all out, but from what I keep thinking, it's pretty much at the bottom. For all the things I feel, codependancy fits the reason.

The last few weeks I've been super clingy, which wasn't like me. I think that was me just trying to hang onto what I thought I had before... Which isn't fair to Jen, and it's not fair to me.

So now, to let go a bit. Instead of dreading the time she is away, I am working on cherisihing the time we do have. Besides, if I'm scared when she is away, I can't very well enjoy the time we do get together, and I have been feeling that (even though I was kind of putting it out of my head).


It's pretty hard being shaken down to your core. I felt like I had kind of lost sight of myself over the last few weeks. Because of everything that had happened, I think my body just went into self defense mode, and lashed out against it all. After figuring out I'm codependant, I kind of felt like I had gotten a piece of myself back, and felt empowered.


So, today is a new day, and I feel like I'll be able to be a better husband now.

[Beodude123]

Today has been kind of off and on for me. I've been having a hard time with not spending time with Jen, be it errands or naps or what not, but at least I know why I am feeling the way I am. I am feeling pretty empowered as far as the codependancy thing. While it still draws a lot of power from me, I know where it is coming from, and where it's going, so at least I understand.

I'm feeling more okay with Jen doing derby, and more okay with J being in the picture. I wish he'd be better with his communication, but to each their own right? I'm going to have a good talking with him tomorrow night, and see what happens.

It was kind a rough day for me, but it was a day I was able to deal with. The understanding helps a megaton, and allows me to be able to accept and cope with why I feel the way I do. It's going to take a lot of time, but I really feel like I'm on the path to healing right now. I'm not quite sure how all the poly stuff is going to end up. Not quite sure if I'll ever truly be okay with sex.. But for now, I'm in a good place.



I've also finally started to realize that Jen hasn't changed. My image of her has, but she has remained the same person. What I thought I needed of her has changed, but again, she is the same person. So I'm growing into another spot, another place in which I can be her rock. Because that's what I am. I'm a stable person, and the most important person to Jen. That's all I can ever be, no matter who comes and goes. I will always be there.

[FlameKat]

I've also finally started to realize that Jen hasn't changed. My image of her has, but she has remained the same person. What I thought I needed of her has changed, but again, she is the same person. So I'm growing into another spot, another place in which I can be her rock. Because that's what I am. I'm a stable person, and the most important person to Jen. That's all I can ever be, no matter who comes and goes. I will always be there.


Big happy squeezy hugs for you... sounds like a good place to be :D

[JenAgain]

I'm a stable person, and the most important person to Jen. That's all I can ever be, no matter who comes and goes. I will always be there.

THIS!

I love you babe :)

[Beodude123]

It's been a pretty good few days. Haven't been feeling too anxious, and have been feeling more like myself than I have in a few weeks. I've been talking a lot more about everything again, which definitely helps. I don't feel like I need to be around Jen as much as possible, but I very much enjoy when we are together!

She and I talked about her past, and how she was before she met me, and we got married. It was kind of hard to hear, but I think it gave me some good insight, and it helped sink in the fact that how she has been acting isn't new for her, even if it is for me. Baby steps, for sure, but it's in the right direction at least.

I feel more expressive of my own love, towards Jen (not that I never told her... haha), and towards my good friends at work. Maybe that will help me to accept poly a little easier? Not sure, but like I said, it's a good start.


Overall, I feel like I'm in a good place though.

[MrFarFromRight]

@ Beodude123: I've just read through the whole of this thread in one go. (quick aside: I'm not a trekky either, but the message I programmed to appear every time I turn on my mobile phone is "Beam us up, Scott!" It seems to go with the hardware.)

It strikes me that you and James hit it off pretty well together originally (it was you who introduced him to Jen), but now you write that he isn't very good at his communication. With you or in general? Is your difficulty / pain with his relationship with Jen maybe causing him to have difficulty communicating with you?

[I don't know you, Beodude123, but some of us got some flak from other newbies when we tried to give helpful advice and/or comments that didn't appeal to them... so I'm going to be cautious and assure you that I have no intention of being judgemental, and am fully aware that my ideas might be wide off-beam. Take them for what they're worth, and if they don't apply, please don't get sore. It's painful to read what you're going through and I do honestly only want to help.]

Whether that [your pain leading to his lack of communication] is part of what is going on or not, I think that it would be helpful for you to cultivate the friendship between him and you without Jen in the middle. Spend some quality time with him on your own. (If you don't like each other enough for this to be possible and potentially enjoyable, I don't hold out much hope for the future of your V relationship with Jen at the hinge.) You should both of you open up to each other without being judgemental and without "knowing" what motivates the other, without "knowing" what the other wants. Open your ears and open your hearts.

And don't be too hard on yourself! You're sailing uncharted waters. Others may have sailed similar waters but nobody but the 3 of you can get the 3 of you through this. Be patient, be kind, be understanding, be hopeful... and be yourselves.

Happy sailing!

[Beodude123]

Don't worry man, no butt hurting here. I, unlike some, take the advice of others when I'm not quite sure what I'm doing. Still though, he and I have had a lot of time together (granted, it was pretty much all before the poly thing came about), so we know each other fairly well. I'm just not quite sure he is what will be fitting what Jen and I need, so we're talking about that right now.

[Beodude123]

Well, I keep getting deeper. J probably isn't going to work out, due to communication etc. Anyways, Jen has been talking to another guy that I have worked with, JB. They're just talking right now, but I know she is interested in him, and he's probably interested in her.


While I feel a lot more in control of my emotions, they still are getting the best of me at times. Last night I had another "don't know what to do with my hands" type thing. When I'm like that, pretty much all rational thought goes out the window, and everything that runs through my brain is negative.

Jen read a couple paragraphs from "The Ethical Slut" that talked about jealousy. That it's not an emotion, it's more of a reason for feeling the way you feel. Anger, fear, anxiety, depression... All of them I have been feeling.


So the big question is, how do you deal with jealousy? I think I'm jealous of the affection Jen would show towards others. I'd be very jealous of the sex, but we haven't even gotten to that yet. It's like I want it all (as silly as that is). How can I let go of that? It's not so easy as to say "oh well, that's dumb. Time for it to go". Obviously it's not really something that Jen can help with all that much, and it doesn't feel like talking about it is really helping either.



*EDIT* I'm pretty sure the main reason for the jealousy is that for pretty much the 7 years we have been married, Jen had pretty much been a stay at home wife / mom. Since we started together in England, we didn't really have any friends, so it was just the two of us. When we moved here, we had our first child within a couple months, and that had been consuming much of her time. Now though, she is seeing a lot more people, and doing a lot more stuff in general... So maybe it's a mix of codependence and jealousy? I don't know...


*EDITED EDIT* Also, why would I feel angry about the discovery of jealousy? When Jen first said it, it made a lot of sense... But I was feeling a little anger. Not a lot mind you, but it was still there. Is it because you can't really put it on somebody else, and have to deal with it on your own? One thing that I've kind of been going back and forth with in my mind has been "if only poly hadn't happened". So is the discovery of my jealousy making me mad because it's something I have to confront on my own?

[PenguinDreams]

I can't help at all with the jealousy part. C was not at all gentle or patient and I was pretty much left to myself to work through things while he went out with other people and I wouldn't recommend that to anyone. But I can say it gets easier to watch your partner go out once you've had a few experiences that tell you she's also going to come back and still love you when she does.

The other feelings you're having, (anger, anxiety, what-if's, etc.), sounds like the stages of grieving. Your relationship as you knew it is over and it's perfectly natural to go through a mourning process. Let yourself feel the anger and the depression and do the bargaining and know that it's okay. Write your feelings down and rant away, have a good cry, go hit a punching bag or whatever lets you get your emotions out. You have to go through that to get to the acceptance part.

[Beodude123]

It's weird. I'm not really affraid that Jen is going to leave me. I know that what she and I have could never be replaced. I don't think she's going to fall "more" in love with somebody else....

But there is just this aversion to the thought of her with other men, mostly physically. Even just the thought kissing and stuff gets to me. The grieving thing makes a lot of sense, and there is that feeling sometimes. So I guess I'll just figure out how to work through that.

[JenAgain]

I just wish I knew what to do when you were feeling the anxiety. I get flooded with guilt and it makes me want to stop everything and "go back" to the way it was. At the same time the thought of that doesn't feel right either, and I immediately feel a sense of loss at the idea of it.

All I think I can do is listen, and keep telling you how much I love you, and that none of this is because I feel you are inadequate in any way, shape or form. I wish there was an easier answer.

[Beodude123]

I'm not quite sure what to tell you on that one.. I think it's just something I have to work through on my own. The contact does seem to help though.

I actually had a pretty positive thing happen last night. Jen was having a pretty rough time with a lot of things last night when I got to work. I tried to do as much as I could before I left, but I can't erase stress -_-. While I was at work, when J was headed out the door, I pulled him to the side. I asked if he could head over and hang out with Jen for a bit. He said sure. I asked if he had chocolate, and he looked in his bag, and he did! So he headed over there.

It was nice to be able to count on him, and help Jen out. It's the first positive thing that's happened (poly wise) in a couple weeks. Hopefully this will be a good start to something that can be healthy again.

[Beodude123]

Well, in my infinite wisdom, I wanted to tell somebody about Jen being poly. I figured it would help me to get more comfortable with her newfound life. I told one guy that I'm pretty close to. At first he didn't get it, but when I asked him if he knew any single girls for me to date... He finally understood. Haha

It wasn't my best idea. He pretty much reiterated all of my things, and sort of validated them, as silly as that sounds. So yeah, it kinda sucks. Great idea, right? Not so much.

[Freetime]

I just wish I knew what to do when you were feeling the anxiety. I get flooded with guilt and it makes me want to stop everything and "go back" to the way it was. At the same time the thought of that doesn't feel right either, and I immediately feel a sense of loss at the idea of it.

All I think I can do is listen, and keep telling you how much I love you, and that none of this is because I feel you are inadequate in any way, shape or form. I wish there was an easier answer.

Hi Jenagain, I'm right in there with Beodude and would like to share an experience with you that may or may not help. I'm so new to this and the board, I'm not sure I should even be offering advice, but I am and I hope it helps.

T feels as you do when I get fearful and angry, and like you she does exactly what you discussed above. Here is what her actions do for me at that time. First it gets me out of the dark place I go to when I'm like that. Ts quiet reassuring tone and loving behavior get me back to seeing this for what it is, and not what I am afraid of. She keeps at it until she gets through my thick skull and ego driven reaction. Much of what I'm feeling at this time Jen has nothing to do with T being poly but is old hurts and pain coming up. This journey into poly has acted as a conduit...doorway for old undealt with emotional pain to rear it's head. I cannot speak for Beodude but much of my jealousy and fear have nothing to do with T getting a BF. I have been able to deal and look at this only because T acted just as you did and do. Love expressed and reassurances offered at these highly charged times helped me focus on how much I love T and how much she loves me. It's been awesome.

I have a lifetime of old fears and hurts all trying to attach themselves to this experience and am learning to tell them they don't belong in this conversation/ experience of poly. Takes time, but Ts patient, loving demeanor and refusal to give up on me has made a world of difference.


I'm not quite sure what to tell you on that one.. I think it's just something I have to work through on my own. The contact does seem to help though.

I actually had a pretty positive thing happen last night. Jen was having a pretty rough time with a lot of things last night when I got to work. I tried to do as much as I could before I left, but I can't erase stress -_-. While I was at work, when J was headed out the door, I pulled him to the side. I asked if he could head over and hang out with Jen for a bit. He said sure. I asked if he had chocolate, and he looked in his bag, and he did! So he headed over there.

It was nice to be able to count on him, and help Jen out. It's the first positive thing that's happened (poly wise) in a couple weeks. Hopefully this will be a good start to something that can be healthy again.

You're a good and decent man Beodude.

Well, in my infinite wisdom, I wanted to tell somebody about Jen being poly. I figured it would help me to get more comfortable with her newfound life. I told one guy that I'm pretty close to. At first he didn't get it, but when I asked him if he knew any single girls for me to date... He finally understood. Haha

It wasn't my best idea. He pretty much reiterated all of my things, and sort of validated them, as silly as that sounds. So yeah, it kinda sucks. Great idea, right? Not so much.

I shared my story with 2 people. The first guy was one of my closest friends, he fed my fears, told me my marriage was over and that Poly was unnatural. He spun me up to where I starting to breakdown, and we were in a food court at a mall! He then got up, said he had to go and that was the last time I heard from him. Some friend.

The second guy also a good friend, said although he didn't really get it, he supported T and I and anything he could do to help, he would. He's been a real friend and I'm fortunate to have him. But I did learn from this that few people in our society as it exists today understand what you and I along with Jen and T are doing and experiencing. So I'm glad this board and through it, you, are here for me.

I may post some of this in my thread so that I have a record of my thoughts on this.

My best to you and jenagain, may we all find that which we're looking for.

FT

P.S. You and I seem to be on parallel paths here beo and I thank you for taking the time to let me know i wasn't alone.

Be well

FT

[Carma]

Sundance and I are on a similar path as you are, as well! Amazing. Wish we could all meet up around a campfire sometime. Guess it will have to be a virtual one, for now :cool:

[Beodude123]

Disregard.

[AnnabelMore]

Hey Beo,

I posted some advice that was really for both of you on Jen's thread, then came over here to read yours. Only one more thing to add, really -- reading your first post, it sounded like you were pretty ok until the question of intercourse kept coming up. If that's a boundary for you, I really think that's *ok* for now. Don't feel like it's inevitable that that boundary's going to be crossed before you're ready. Ideally we should all work out all of our fears and not have to have so many rules, and hopefully that will happen for you but for now... all of this is so so new, if you have a limit you need to set, well, it doesn't *have* to make sense as long as you're not just setting the limit out of spite (which doesn't sound at all like the case). Take a little more time with it and keep working, don't allow yourself to be rushed such that you end up feeling worse! It'll be better for *everyone*... you, her, him... if you're truly in a good place. :)

[MrFarFromRight]

@ Beodude: First of all, kudos on asking J to look in on Jen and comfort her when you couldn't be there for her!

My idea on jealousy (and elsewhere (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=6519) I've distinguished between 2 types of "jealousy") is that it's a sign of insecurity. You seem to be sure that Jen isn't about to stop loving you or even love somebody more than you. So I'm asking myself (I get these crazy ideas and throw them into the pot) if maybe you - deep down - feel that you're unworthy of love. A lot of us have this idea drummed into us when we're young. I have to admit that this is a bit of delayed projection on my part: when I was a teenager I was convinced that I was unlovable, so that any time that somebody tried to get close, I couldn't believe that they could really care for me. Most of this is besides the point (aside from to say that I've been there) but my question to you is: Do you love yourself? You know that Jen loves you, so that's not the problem. Maybe - just maybe - if you were sure of your love for yourself, the jealousy wouldn't hurt so?

And - as I think I've already written before on this thread (or was it another one?) - be patient with the jealousy thing, be gentle on yourself. It'll take time. (But that detail about asking J to comfort Jen is a sure sign that you're heading there.)

All the best!

[Beodude123]

Love myself? Not really sure. Maybe?

I know I drew a lot of self worth from being Jen's "everything". I felt like I was able to do it all. Now I can't, and it pretty much bear blasted my self confidence. I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them. Same thing with Jen, but on a waaaaay different level.

I try and talk to myself when I get anxious, but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. Even talking with Jen just seems to bandaid the problem... I feel like I've hit a wall of progress.

[MrFarFromRight]

I know I drew a lot of self worth from being Jen's "everything".Yeah: we're sold this "Need somebody else to make me whole" + "Happy Ever after" package deal, and when it doesn't work out that way, we feel that we're the failures - not the package deal. This is one of my main reasons for being poly. Even though right now I haven't got any sexual relationship going, I consider myself poly because I reject that first part of the package and because I refuse to accept monogamy. That needs some clarification: I could be happy in a relationship that was - for all practical purposes - monogamous... as long as I didn't feel that my freedom was restricted nor that I was restricting the freedom of someone I loved. It's not the extra sex i need: it's the freedom.

[Beodude123]

But what happens when I felt all those things? I get everything I want from Jen. It makes me feel like garbage that I don't reciprocate that.

[Beodude123]

So... Did I hit rock bottom yesterday? I was tired of fighting to feel happy. The last couple weeks have been hard on me. I decided that the easiest thing to do was give in to sadness. I accepted that I was going to be sad, and it felt kind of... nice. Consistency was back. You can always get meds to fix it, right? Besides, poly is about filling holes (hahaha so punny), so Jen could just find somebody to fill anything I can't be. Seemed like a good plan. It was the easiest way to not be hurt, and Jen would be free to do what she wanted.

I got the kids yesterday, and when Jen got up, I was barely looking at her, much less talking. I felt pretty empty at that point, but I didn't really want to talk while the kids were up. After we got them down for a nap, I told her that I gave up. She said that wasn't right, and it's not what she wanted. We talked for a bit, but she had to get the kids some medecine.

I was still feeling like garbage after I went to work. I couldn't get out of my funk. All I was feeling (when my brain could sort the thousand thoughts flying through it at a given time) was anger and regret. Jen came by after that, and just held me for a bit. It was nice...

I'm feeling better now, but I keep feeling regret. How can I move forward, when all I want to do is go back? That was when I was strong, and happy. Now, I struggle with both at times.



Jen is looking for a counselor that we can go to together. I don't think I can get out of this on my own. Talking doesn't seem to help, and I keep going back to the same negative emotions. Hopefully a professional can help with that.

[SNeacail]

Wow, your post has sent me to a place I didn't want to be. You talk about Jen being your "everything", that is a LOT of preassure to put on one person. My husband did this to me for a number of years. The truth is, I can not be this mythical imaginary person he had made me out to be. The more I tried, the more I failed and the more misserable I became. I felt guilty for letting him down, I resented him for creating all these expectations of me that I wasn't capable of and I hated him for making me responsible for his happiness. I want to SHARE in his happiness, not be solely responsible for it. If I am required to be responsible for his happiness, I will have to walk away, because I am not qualified, nor capable of that task and I will make mistakes that will kill us both. Kinda like sending a teenager to do a job that requires a licenesed electrician.

I think going to a councelor is a great idea.

[Carma]

Please don't give up. You've shown your heart here, and I've seen its purity and strength. You and Jen have a love that is rare. Be strong -- you can create a love life that fits you both. You are worth it, both of you.

[dingedheart]

I think to be fair..... Beo has tried very hard to give this a shot....its very painful and he doesn't see a huge up side....only more pain and drama. I don't think any of us can extrapolate his meaning of the word "everything" as it relates to his wife. I know when I was struggling...in a lot of pain.... not sleeping well... the exact or perfect word didn't always reach the screen.....and what I may have typed 3 hrs ago I wouldn't have type later. Lets not forget he/they dated for some period of time then got married and had some kids and now the game has changed...he is asked to adapt... change a core belief.....no small task.

This idea that people aren't responsible for others happiness is true. What about responsible for others pain??? If others aren't connected to happiness then why do Poly people need "others" to feel happy or Loved/complete. So the converse is actually true.... take away the "other(s)" and now someone else isn't happy.

Hey I learned a lot in my experience....I don't want to share...I don't share a car ....in fact I have several non of which I share, Clothes, house, pets,.... the most intimate person in my life...never again. Here's another big thing I don't have to. There are millions of people ...male and female struggling to make one relationship work well let alone several. And if I'm willing to devote my time and focus to one person I think I deserve the same in return. It's become a self worth issue for me. Time and energy, money are all a zero sum game.....want a better relationship with a spouse or partner.... not going to get it by investing in some other outside relationship.

Jen said she was ok with you exploring a second relationship... How would she have been if you had found someone and sprung it on here in the exact same way?? In my situation and I have very limited experience so really doesn't mean much but I think my wife agreed to out of fairness and as way of maintaining or continue what she wanted to have. The pain or discomfort would have been offset by her pleasure. In this poly/ mono dynamic that offset is sometimes hard to find for the mono person.

I know if I had come home lets say a yr or 2 after our second child and pitched this I would have gotten lamp thrown at my head. And in all seriousness that would have been great for everyone at the time. Not the lamp.... the being poly on my part .

She admitted very early in our journey that because of her slight weight gain after the children that she would have felt very threatened had I approached with a similar request. Understandable and reasonable and no amount of spin would have convince her otherwise. I may have been much happier had I explored an outside relationship..... fuck I know I would have.... but at what cost...

Trust your gut....if it feels wrong ...do something that feels better or good. It doesn't matter if the rest of the planet is poly if it feels bad to you then move in a direction that feels better..... Good luck to both of you ... D

[JenAgain]

Sneacail.. I do relate to your post, and I do feel a lot of pressure to not only make myself happy but be responsible for making sure that he is happy. It seems like there is absolutely nothing I can do to bring him out of his funk, but I'm not giving up. Even "going back" wont make him happy because he knows how I feel about poly.

Carma, I agree whole-heartedly.

Dingedheart, while I also relate to your post in some manners, though I think what you see in poly and what I see are different. I don't, and have never had any problems with our marriage. I've never tried to seek something better or thought that we required something to spice it up. This isn't something I want to do to fix anything that I viewed as wrong. I love my husband dearly, and I do view him as the most important person in my life, but am I not also important?

I did say I would be okay with him exploring a second relationship. I never said that I thought it would be easy for me either, I don't expect it would be, but I also know how to give myself positive affirmations and deal with negative feelings. I have been in relationships before that were not monogamous, and it wasn't with my consent either. However, it was never the infidelity that bothered me, it was always the lying. The bottom line is I probably would have reacted differently than him, because I am not mono-minded.

The problem we've come to is that when trusting our guts, we both have come to different conclusions. For me, it's that I feel I need that freedom. For him, he feels that giving me that freedom takes away from his self worth. However we both feel that we have a very strong and rare type of relationship and we never want to be with out the other, so with time and probably counseling we will find an answer.

That said, I have been in and out of counseling most of my life and actually go now. I contacted a marriage counselor but she didn't want to see us without permission from my current counselor so I will be discussing things with her at my next appointment and we'll go from there. In the meantime I'll keep doing the best I can at showing hubby how much I love him, and how important he is to me.

[SNeacail]

Even "going back" wont make him happy because he knows how I feel about poly.

Going back usually doesn't work for exactly that reason. However, slowing down, taking a "time-out" and just being (no more talking or discussions on the subject for a while) can help regulate some of the emotions. Schedule some dates for just the two of you 1-2 a week.

I hate change and will usually flip out with last minute changes unless I have been able to prepare myself ahead of time. I will fight new ideas if it means an immediate change, but once I have had time to process some stuff, I can address some of the problems I see with the new idea and try to incorporate the general premiss of the idea into a working solution. It is also possible to get overloaded with a subject and then it's - "STOP! THE BRAIN IS FULL, NO MORE, SYSTEMS ARE CRASHING."

[dingedheart]

hi jen

If your marriage is good, not trying to spice things up, not trying to fix things.....what are the reasons....and yes you are important and I;m sure he thinks that otherwise he wouldn't have put himself through that. I dont want to put words in anyone's mouth but when we first started it felt like my soul was being ripped out....I know that sounds overly dramatic...but that's the only way I could describe it.....affirmations didn't really help me.....I can tell him what did if he wants .....pm me.

I think you are doing a very smart thing by getting your counselors involved. And I agree with SN about taking a break...not going to hurt.

[Beodude123]

If your marriage is good, not trying to spice things up, not trying to fix things.....what are the reasons

And I agree with SN about taking a break...not going to hurt.

Maybe this is why I have a hard time accepting it? I don't know. Obviously something was wrong, otherwise she wouldn't feel so right after finding poly. I'm pretty sure it wasn't something in the marriage, but I don't know what was.




It's hard to take a break from talking about it. It's pretty much all I think about at work. This eventually leads to about an hour or so where I don't know what to do with my hands. I'll shake them, move my fingers around... Just something to help get rid of all my emotional energy. If I don't talk about it, it seems to stay around for a lot longer, and it keeps me in the funk.

It's what I think about at home a lot too. I pretty much have no refuge from my brain, and it's absolutely exhausting. The only times I'm really not thinking about it at all, is when I'm driving my RX-8, or when I have so much work to do I don't have time to think about anything else.



Haha I did like the thing about "quitting cold turkey" though. Kinda funny.

[AnnabelMore]

Obviously something was wrong, otherwise she wouldn't feel so right after finding poly. I'm pretty sure it wasn't something in the marriage, but I don't know what was.

While I can't know what's actually going on in the intricacies of your relationship, I disagree strongly with the premise of this statement. I can have a job I absolutely love, and then find a hobby I love and that doesn't mean that there was anything whatsoever wrong with my life or my job. It just means that I'm a complex person with room for more than one thing in my life.

The big question, of course, is time... do I really have time to commit myself to both my my job and to a casual hobby (for the sake of the analogy a tertiary partner) or a serious hobby (secondary partner) or even a second job (co-primary)? It might take a lot of juggling and a lot of honest assessment, maybe some other pursuits in my life have to be set aside.

But the desire to try new things doesn't, doesn't, *doesn't* mean that I had some hidden problem in my life, that I love my job any less or that there's anything wrong!!

[JenAgain]

Right, it wasn't something in the marriage. I didn't say, hey, I feel like I need something else and go looking for it. It landed in our laps, and I was like "Wow, why didn't that feel wrong? Why do I feel like a part of me that was missing has been filled?" It's not that I ever knew something was missing, or felt like something was missing, until it wasn't. It was like being wrapped in comfort, at least until it started affecting hubby negatively.

After that, all of a sudden, my whole relationship/sexual history made sense. I would be lying if I said that it didn't increase my sex drive something fierce, because it did. That made ME feel better about that part of our marriage, but I wouldn't consider it a problem before. Hubby never complained about the infrequency and I did everything I could to try and increase it, but it was difficult. I always assumed it was hormones, fatigue from the kids, etc. It certainly wasn't hubby! I never felt the sex itself was lacking in any way, I've always enjoyed it thoroughly.

So, after some discussion this morning, we're going to try and take a week off of "poly". J is on leave, I'm not going to invite any of my/our male friends over, we aren't going to come and visit the forum, just to have a reprieve and try and give ourselves some time that's just us again. So if we don't respond for a while, that's why! :)

[AnnabelMore]

So, after some discussion this morning, we're going to try and take a week off of "poly". J is on leave, I'm not going to invite any of my/our male friends over, we aren't going to come and visit the forum, just to have a reprieve and try and give ourselves some time that's just us again. So if we don't respond for a while, that's why! :)

I think this is a *wonderful* idea. :) You shouldn't build additions to a house that doesn't have a strong foundation (I am all about the analogies today, apparently). Take as much time as you both need, yeah?

[MrFarFromRight]

Love myself? Not really sure. Maybe?

I know I drew a lot of self worth from being Jen's "everything". I felt like I was able to do it all. Now I can't, and it pretty much bear blasted my self confidence. I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them. Same thing with Jen, but on a waaaaay different level.

I try and talk to myself when I get anxious, but it doesn't seem to work most of the time. Even talking with Jen just seems to bandaid the problem... I feel like I've hit a wall of progress.Hi, Beodude! You won't read this until you get back from your holiday-from-poly, but since I only get to connect to Internet 2-3 days in a row each week, I'll reply now. What I'd like is to sit down and talk to you leisurely, immediate 2-way (or more, if Jen were in on it) communication...

I was going to comment last week on more of the comment quoted above, but the person with the key wanted to go home for the weekend and got angry at me for holding her up for even 8 minutes. do[/U] get on-line, I'm rarely finished by closing time, so this isn't the first time that I've kept her waiting.] So I sent what I already had done, gathered my things, and scooted!

Now, 5 days later, I'm not sure exactly what I wanted to add. I know that I was thinking of a gentle joke: "Hey, Beo, I hope that you're not planning to let Jen out early!" But only to illustrate that you're both keepers. There's a bedrock of strong Love there, and it's warming to read how much you want Jen to be happy... even when it hurts.

Now - because of something that happened since my last log-in - I want to comment on your [I]"I tend to draw a lot of worth from my relationships, and in acceptance in general. At work, I feel good about myself when I let people out early, and take care of them."

The thing is, I'm a bit like this myself: I don't think that I get my feeling of self-worth from others, but I certainly look after others more than I look after myself. I'm a pretty good cook, and I love to cook for others. But if it's just me... I might just cook some pasta and open a tetra-brick of supermarket tomato sauce. Sometimes I don't even bother to chop up one clove of garlic! (A salad per day is a must, but it's usually much simpler than the amazing salads with improvised and irrepeatable sauces that I prepare at friends' houses.)

Anyway, I thought that I might be getting a visit this week and spent part of 3 days in a cleaning and tidying blitz to get the house quarter-way presentable. Today (via e-mail) I found out that my visitor probably won't be showing up... but my living-room is sooooooooo much more comfortable (for me) than it's been in weeks! (OK: tell the truth - in months!) [Bachelors!!!]

OK! Maybe this is what I wanted to comment on last week: 'being Jen's "everything".' I commented on something like this on another thread:Try playing this game: Imagine yourself wanting to be the one she shares all her pleasures with, getting jealous whenever she wants to go on a shopping trip with one of her friends, dancing every dance with her at every party you ever go to, getting upset when she laughs at other people's jokes (I actually knew someone like this with his girlfriend - my ex.) There are very few people in this world who don't have do deal with jealousy at some time, so you're not alone. [...]

It hurts, I know. And I really was not trying to be flippant with that game suggestion. It might help to put things in perspective. It hurts and it's going to hurt for a while. But you love her and her happiness means a lot to you. And your happiness means a lot to her. So you're going to be gentle and patient with each other... and hopefully grow closer through the painful growing process.I think that this applies to you and Jen, too: You can't be somebody everything! If Jen wanted you to be her everything ("Tie my shoes for me, Honey!", "Oh, please don't go off to work today! I feel completely lost when you're not here..." etc. etc.), you'd soon get sick of her.

[MrFarFromRight]

So... Did I hit rock bottom yesterday? I was tired of fighting to feel happy. The last couple weeks have been hard on me. I decided that the easiest thing to do was give in to sadness. I accepted that I was going to be sad, and it felt kind of... nice. Consistency was back. You can always get meds to fix it, right? Besides, poly is about filling holes (hahaha so punny), so Jen could just find somebody to fill anything I can't be. Seemed like a good plan. It was the easiest way to not be hurt, and Jen would be free to do what she wanted.

I got the kids yesterday, and when Jen got up, I was barely looking at her, much less talking. I felt pretty empty at that point [...] I'm feeling better now, but I keep feeling regret. How can I move forward, when all I want to do is go back? That was when I was strong, and happy. Now, I struggle with both at times.

Jen is looking for a counselor that we can go to together. I don't think I can get out of this on my own. Talking doesn't seem to help, and I keep going back to the same negative emotions. Hopefully a professional can help with that.2 comments:

a) What you were writing about isn't sadness, it's depression: the not wanting to feel at all. Many of us have been through this, and it's not just poly-related. Yeah, sometimes it feels "nice" not to feel pain. But in the long term it really sucks! It hurt to read: "when Jen got up, I was barely looking at her" (partly because I've been there).

b) Good to read about the councelling, BUT. Make sure that it's the right councellor! Don't go for a poly-phobe. I know that you're hurting over this poly thing, but it really isn't going to help the situation if you get someone who says that Jen's wish for another relationship is an immature desire to escape from reality and from her responsibilities of being an adult: wife and mother (bla bla bla).

One of my exes had a therapist who told her that her continued use of a diminuitive as the name she used was a subconscious refusal to assume her maturity. I don't want to reveal her (or my) identity, so I'll use the names Jen (what a coincidence!) and Billy:

The person I'd fallen in love with as Jen comes home from therapy and announces that all this time she's been clinging to immaturity, that from now on - as a realised adult - she wants me to always call her Jennifer. I had no (almost no) problem with that, but when she added: "And from now on, you shouldn't let people call you Billy: your name is William."

Well, I knew that my [official] name is William. But I happen to like "Billy". So although I respected her wishes as far as her own name was concerned (and haven't called her Jen once since then), I am and remain Billy.

Therapists sometimes have their own hang-ups. [In fact, they always do: it's why they choose that job in the first place. TRUE FACT: Do you know the origin of the psychoanalyst's couch? It's because Freud was so uncomfortable looking people in the eye: By having them lie down... and him sitting behind their head, he didn't have to do so! Smart man! But soooo very untogether... Did you know that when he reported that almost all of his female patients had been the victims of sexual abuse (remember that these were women who sought treatment because they needed treatment - something had happened to them!) his colleagues made such fun of him that Freud retracted his report and invented his famous "fantasy" theory: that women invent sexual abuse because they really wish that they'd had sex with their fathers!]

[MrFarFromRight]

I was going to add this to my last post, but that was getting long enough and I'd like you [Beodude] to concentrate on this very simple thing:

Many people who are having trouble with poly are worried that if their partner has a relationship with someone else, "that's it, Buddy, I'm gonna lose her (or him). She (or he) is gonna go off with The Other and leave me here on my lonesome."

I don't believe that you think that for one minute. You know that Jen would never leave you. (Or love somebody more than you.) And she never fails to say so.

So why aren't you feeling lucky?

(Silly question...)

[Beodude123]

Been a long time since my last update! I'll probably try and put some thoughts down over the next few days.

I'm definitely in a lot better place than I was since my last post. I think my emotional wound is starting to heal up. I still am unsure of how I'll be able to go along with poly, and how it can fit in my life. There is a lot of jealousy issues that I need to work around. I think if I can work around that, it would be a good start.

One interesting thing did happen this week though. I kind of always think I've been bisexual, but I never really explored the thought. I always found women to be my preference, and it was the norm, so that's all there was to it. Well, there is a good friend of mine that comes over fairly often. I've confided my thoughts and struggles to him, and he's confided a lot of his own things with me as well. We've been good friends for a while. A month or so ago, when he was over, I was looking at him, and feelings deeper than friends started bubbling up a little bit. I took note of it, but kind of passed it off. Well, the other day he was over again, and the same feelings popped up again.


I told Jen about it, and she seemed supportive. We haven't talked about it a whooole lot, but she's been out of town, so I'm sure we will when she gets back. I thought of telling him that I was possibly bi, and he wasn't very surprised either. Haha. He seemed non-judgemental, and he said he still loves me (pretty much always said that). I didn't tell him I have feelings for him yet. He's married, and has two kids, and I'm pretty sure his wife wouldn't approve... Anyways, I kind of figured I'd let those stew a bit, and kind of figure out where I stand on the whole thing.


But once nice thing about this, is that it gives me some perspective I guess. Obviously I don't feel any different about Jen after my discovery.


Jen and I have been talking about a lot of different things, and we've found a lot of personal differences that we hadn't discovered before. So it's been a rough couple months, with a lot of changes (perceived anyways) in the relationship. But we're still strong, and I'm confident we can work through anything.

[SNeacail]

I told Jen about it, and she seemed supportive. We haven't talked about it a whooole lot, but she's been out of town, so I'm sure we will when she gets back. I thought of telling him that I was possibly bi, and he wasn't very surprised either. Haha. He seemed non-judgemental, and he said he still loves me (pretty much always said that). I didn't tell him I have feelings for him yet. He's married, and has two kids, and I'm pretty sure his wife wouldn't approve... Anyways, I kind of figured I'd let those stew a bit, and kind of figure out where I stand on the whole thing.

The biggest thing for me, was allowing myself to admit that it's ok to love someone other than my husband (and vice versa). For so many years I think I alway held a piece of myself back because, I was married, I wasn't supposed to have these feelings of love for friends, even if the relationship is and forever will be platonic. Allowing myself the freedom to love also allowed me to accept and encourage my husbands relationship with his bff (non-sexual partner :p). This stripped alot of my jealousy away.

[MrFarFromRight]

Jen and I have been talking about a lot of different things, and we've found a lot of personal differences that we hadn't discovered before. So it's been a rough couple months, with a lot of changes (perceived anyways) in the relationship. But we're still strong, and I'm confident we can work through anything.[my boldfacing]

Dude, I take off my hat, fling it on the ground, and stomp on it for you.hug!

[Beodude123]

Ha! You make me laugh, in a good way of course.


So, it's been a pretty introspective couple of days for me. I'm teaching myself a lot (more) self honesty. Thinking back on some of my own experiences, I've forced my feelings to conform to the norm. I think on a lot of levels I was doing it subconsciously with the bi thing?

Either way, when I was thinking about things that could have been, I almost regretted some of the connections that I had to break off because of the norm. So this brings me to Jen's poly, and I can't very well deny her that anymore. Having looked deep down, I believe I'm ready for what happens. I have definitely gotten a lot of perspective in the last couple days, that's for sure.

I'll have to work a lot on the jealousy thing, but I bet it won't be as bad as I thought.




Aaaaand the good news! Jen gets home today! Woo woo! :D

[JenAgain]

Well, all of this makes me grin ear to ear. I'm very proud of you babe, for taking the time and thought to look inside yourself and your past, and present, feelings.

At the same time, I'm still hesitant. I'm afraid it will backfire, like it did before. I don't want to hurt you again, even if by accident.

I am really enjoying watching you learn about yourself, and C as well. I just worry that you don't feel the same when it comes to me. Especially because I know what I want, and I know you don't like it. I'll admit it.. I'm skeered.

I suppose it's all a part of ripping the bandaid off. I have my own wounds from the past several months and in time they will heal as well.

Love you :)

[Magdlyn]

Well, all of this makes me grin ear to ear. I'm very proud of you babe, for taking the time and thought to look inside yourself and your past, and present, feelings.

:D Sounds like good progress, indeed.


At the same time, I'm still hesitant. I'm afraid it will backfire, like it did before. I don't want to hurt you again, even if by accident.

As per the discussion of feelings on your thread, Jen, how about I reformat your last statement here, where we understand people are responsible for their own feelings?

"I don't want you to feel hurt again, even if by accident."

Now, can we prevent our loved ones from ever feeling hurt, ever again, in this life? No f-ing way! Life on this plane, this planet, is so hard, it's full of pain... We probably feel hurt in one way or another, every day, whether it's a stubbed toe, or something much more serious, such as a serious illness, or some kind of tragedy.

As sensitive respectful people, we can honor each others' feelings, and be aware of them, and allow them space to feel their feelings, without feeling responsible to not "hurt them," ever again! "You always hurt the ones you love..." : common expression, but the meaning is, those that are near you, that you are intimate with, are open to being hurt AND supported, nurtured and entertained when in proximity to you. That is the goal, and cost, of intimacy.

[Carma]

More love = More karma! The good AND the bad :rolleyes:

I like what I'm reading -- admiring all the hard work you're doing, Beo and Jen :)

[Beodude123]

I'm still having a hard time with Jen's desire for extra sex. I'm still on with it, since I think I just need to let go.... But I have a hard time signing onto something like that, when I feel unsatisfied (quantity wise) at times. I know Jen said it would make her hornier, so I guess I'll just wait and see for that. I know it's not quantity or quality for her, so what is it?

I'm starting to teach myself to let go of some fear. Like, I've been telling myself that it's not the last time we'll have sex, or if she is texting on her phone around me, and jealousy starts popping up, I tell myself that I didn't have anything to talk about anyways. Thinking about the situation with S, sometimes I get jealous about what they have, but then I think about what I have with Jen, and it goes away. I know he is jealous of it... Haha




So something I've been seeing on here, is the ownership of feelings. I understand the sentiment, and agree with it to a point. To me though, it seems to get tossed around here as a "get out of jail free" card. I don't care what you say, your actions have consequences. Saying that you were trying to be nice as possible when you broke boundaries or something like that, but your feelings aren't my fault. Come on, give me a break. Pretty sure I'm going to get bashed for this, but whatever. It's how I feel.

On that note though, I can only say super good things about Jen. She's been incredibly supportive, understanding, and for once in her life, patient. I think she's done an awesome job of balancing ownership, with support and everything. Love you babe!

[JenAgain]

I'm still having a hard time with Jen's desire for extra sex. I'm still on with it, since I think I just need to let go.... But I have a hard time signing onto something like that, when I feel unsatisfied (quantity wise) at times. I know Jen said it would make her hornier, so I guess I'll just wait and see for that. I know it's not quantity or quality for her, so what is it?

For the record, my desire is not for extra sex, though it comes with the territory. I know I could have my fill from you whenever the need arises, so it's not that I need MORE. It's the freedom of being able to, if I feel the connection, that gets my "juices flowing" so to speak. That you are understanding and accepting of my desire to have different people that I care about in my life and to spend time with them, be it platonically.. or intimately.

So something I've been seeing on here, is the ownership of feelings. I understand the sentiment, and agree with it to a point. To me though, it seems to get tossed around here as a "get out of jail free" card. I don't care what you say, your actions have consequences. Saying that you were trying to be nice as possible when you broke boundaries or something like that, but your feelings aren't my fault. Come on, give me a break. Pretty sure I'm going to get bashed for this, but whatever. It's how I feel.

I don't think they are saying that it's okay to break boundaries and use the "ownership of feelings" card. I think it's more like saying...we are trying to come to an agreement, and while our differences may not always be easy on the other person, as long as it's done with as much care possible.. if it hurts you (like me bringing up Poly did when I hadn't even been acting on it) there is only so much I can be responsible for. If you tell me it's okay to go see S and I take you up on the offer, then I shouldn't feel guilty or be concerned about hurting your feelings because anything after you said "why don't you go see S" is in your control.

On that note though, I can only say super good things about Jen. She's been incredibly supportive, understanding, and for once in her life, patient. I think she's done an awesome job of balancing ownership, with support and everything. Love you babe!

Snort!!!! Love you too :)

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, I didnt mean to imply we can let our lovers run roughshod all over us, just because we own our feelings. Of course, we should be sensitive and caring to our loved ones.

We can say, "When you do X, I feel Y." You can then also express a wish for something different.

Let me think of poly examples from my own life, and others' experiences.

"When you take her out to a bookstore and read her romantic poems, I feel jealous. We don't do things like that in our relationship enough anymore. I wish we did."

"When you have sex with your lover and don't seem to desire me when we are together, I feel pushed aside. I wish our sex life was more frequent."

"When you and your lover had sex in the next room, I felt like I was going crazy. I need to know you still value me and find me attractive."

"When you went out for an evening date with your bf, and didnt come home til the next day, and didnt let me know you'd be out overnight, I was worried sick. We need to discuss this boundary."

[Beodude123]

I understand the context in which it was used a couple posts up, and I pretty much agree with it. After all, if I say "hey it's cool for you to go", she shouldn't feel guilty or anything.