Husband of 10 years is Poly-Just Found Out [Archive]

ladyintricate

02-23-2011, 06:35 PM

My husband and I have been married for 10 years and have two kids together. Two years ago he kissed a woman that he worked with and I found out about the kiss. I confronted him and was very hurt because I felt up until that point that we had a loving and honest relationship. It was very emotional for me and him. He apologized profusely that he had kissed her and especially that he kept it secret, but said that he was starting to love this woman and he thinks that he is polyamorous. He begged me not to leave him because he “loves me and always has” and said that his dishonesty was wrong, but it was because he was trying to pretend that he didn’t love this other person when he did. Anyway, I was very hurt by the dishonesty, but I love him and what he said was genuine (of course there was much more said, but this was the gist). I agreed that as long as he was 100% honest in the future he could be close friends with this woman and I would try to be friends with her as well. Basically, that she would be in our life – if I could handle that, I would try.

Fast forward 2 years (now) and my husband cheated on me with this person. I was doubly betrayed because she had become a friend. I feel like I did all that I could and I tried so hard and then he lied to me again and he had sex with her as well, when I told him that this was NOT ok. He says that it was a huge mistake and that he still loves me and he knows it was wrong. He says that he fell completely in love with her through continuing to be friends with her, but that he never wanted to hurt me. Per him, he knew that I could not handle him having a “more than friends” relationship with her because of what I had said before, but could not bear to not be in love with her, so he lied to me. I do not think any of that last part, as far as his actions, are OK at all and I have told him this. I told him that the only way we can even hope to work through this is if he does not have contact with her anymore. It has been about 3 weeks now and he has honored my wishes.

Some days I feel like I am working through this, but he still misses her and tells me about that. I understand that he loves her and that he is dealing with not having her in his life anymore, but I cannot handle him telling me about that because of the betrayal associated with it for me. He has said that he still loves her and wants her in his life and he is worried he will never be happy and that he will just make me miserable.

I am definitely monogamous- that is just me. However, I am willing to accept him for who he is and maybe someday (after a lot of healing) even try to be in a poly relationship with him. However, I cannot ever try to open myself up to that with this particular woman involved (it just hurts too much). What should I do? Should I just give this all time for us to both heal?

I'm sorry to pour all this out (I know this is a book), but I don’t know what to do. Totally unchartered territory for me and him. We went to a marriage counselor and she really wasn’t much help at all.

kreeativ

02-23-2011, 07:24 PM

this must be hard for you i understand. i think it might be well known that we dont get a choice for whom we fall for,love happens. but we spend our whole lives being conditioned to the lie that we are special,and that there is only one out there in the big world that will help us feel special.
this might be an oppertunity to search deep down into your self and understand how you love yourself. if you can love yourself unconditionaly,you will heal.

BlackUnicorn

02-23-2011, 07:39 PM

First of all, I am so sorry for you. What your husband did was wrong. Cheating isn't okay no matter how poly you feel yourself to be or how much you love the person you cheated with.

I have one question; when your husband told you he might be poly, did you just leave it at that? Did it ever come up again before his betrayal was uncovered? Or did you think it should be enough for your husband to be just friends with this woman? It's likely that after the discussion, you had somewhat different understanding of what you had agreed on. Or it might be that you had a perfect agreement, and he chose to go against that.

What I would do in a situation like that is take a lot of me time. You are under no obligation to hear him rant on about his other love. Since you have kids, it might be hard to consider a temporary separation, but if you don't feel like talking about it, you can just say that out loud. Get into therapy and suggest he goes separately, so you don't have give therapy to each other.

NeonKaos

02-23-2011, 07:39 PM

i think it might be well known that we dont get a choice for whom we fall for,love happens.

Perhaps not, but we DO have a choice about how we go about ACTING on our "love".

The OP's husband should have had a talk with the OP before he fucked his "love".

kreeativ

02-23-2011, 07:51 PM

no disagreement there,communication,honesty,which the lack of causes alot of unneeded turmoil. sounds like hubby is just lacking in courage.

ladyintricate

02-23-2011, 08:17 PM

BlackUnicorn and Kreeativ, Thank you for your supportive words.

I have one question; when your husband told you he might be poly, did you just leave it at that? Did it ever come up again before his betrayal was uncovered? Or did you think it should be enough for your husband to be just friends with this woman? It's likely that after the discussion, you had somewhat different understanding of what you had agreed on. Or it might be that you had a perfect agreement, and he chose to go against that.

We talked about it a LOT. I wanted to be very clear and I was (he has told me that himself). At the point where I first found out he was poly and that he had kissed this other woman (I will call her A.) I was very hurt and upset and confused. I wanted to know what he needed and what I needed so that we could both evaluate if we could do those things and continue our marriage and how to do that. He said that he was ok with just having her as a very close friend (platonic - no sex or kissing) in his life and he hoped that I could accept her as a friend as well. I agreed to this with the caviat that we would keep communication open and no dishonesty. I talked to her about what I was comfortable with and with him and everyone agreed to that.

This all worked fairly well for a while, except that I never felt much more than a weak friendship for A while he seemed to get closer and closer to her up until now/the affair.

My husband says that he wasn't able to keep it to the platonic love level and that he basically panicked because he loved us both and then the sex and dishonesty happened. He says that if it is between her or me it is me. At this point I know myself well enough to know that I cannot trust her again and I cannot trust him again with her, so that situation (if I am involved) much to my husband's unhappiness, is over.

Now I am trying to figure out where do we go from here? I truly love him and I want him to be happy. I want ME to be happy too. No more lies, no more deceit, but how do we make this work?

redpepper

02-23-2011, 10:08 PM

Two years ago he kissed a woman
..... I was very hurt
......He apologized profusely that he had kissed her and especially that he kept it secret, but said that he was starting to love this woman .......
I agreed that as long as he was 100% honest in the future he could be close friends with this woman and I would try to be friends with her as well. Basically, that she would be in our life – if I could handle that, I would try.

Fast forward 2 years (now) and my husband cheated on me with this person. .......
He says that it was a huge mistake and that he still loves me and he knows it was wrong. He says that he fell completely in love with her through continuing to be friends with her, but that he never wanted to hurt me. Per him, he knew that I could not handle him having a “more than friends” relationship with her because of what I had said before, but could not bear to not be in love with her, so he lied to me. I do not think any of that last part, as far as his actions, are OK at all and I have told him this. I told him that the only way we can even hope to work through this is if he does not have contact with her anymore. It has been about 3 weeks now and he has honored my wishes.

Some days I feel like I am working through this, but he still misses her and tells me about that. I understand that he loves her and that he is dealing with not having her in his life anymore, but I cannot handle him telling me about that because of the betrayal associated with it for me. He has said that he still loves her and wants her in his life and he is worried he will never be happy and that he will just make me miserable.

I am definitely monogamous- that is just me. However, I am willing to accept him for who he is and maybe someday (after a lot of healing) even try to be in a poly relationship with him. However, I cannot ever try to open myself up to that with this particular woman involved (it just hurts too much). What should I do? Should I just give this all time for us to both heal?

I'm sorry to pour all this out (I know this is a book), but I don’t know what to do. Totally unchartered territory for me and him. We went to a marriage counselor and she really wasn’t much help at all.
I don't know what others have written yet. I will go back and look in a bit. I wanted to respond first.

Your husband must be in great pain. I feel for him. Two years! Seriously! Two years of hanging out with someone he loves! That has got to suck royally. I couldn't do it. He has NO reason to think his love is a mistake. Yes, what he did was a mistake, but the love, no.

You each play a part in this, firstly, if you thought this would go away then your were naive. Being a person who loves many is not something that "goes away" if anything it gets bigger. You seem to of neglected to get on this situation. You made an agreement that did not involve any kind of closeness for the two of them. Friendship? Come on! Not good enough, he loves her! That is not the same thing... that is torture!

He also did not take this situation into his hands by being honest and getting on it. Ya, you got mad the first time, but he needed to face his fear of that and you needed to be more patient I think. I don't know what you said, but somewhere a long the line he has got in his head that this is not okay. It's totally okay to love others, where was the compassion from you?! Especially as you say that "one day" you could be poly with him. Well, excuse me, but NOW is the time... not on your terms! On both of your terms.

I have just been through this same kind of experience. Check my blog from the last month or so. I have a non-sexual boyfriend, Leo, that I did some stuff with that went beyond the boundaries I had with my monogamous partner (Mono). He hit the roof and I was terrified of losing him. We processed this and still are. I have been with this other man for two years... same length of time as with my boyfriend. I ended up deciding Leo was not a good match in terms of the investment we would have if we were to have sex. I become very bonded and connected after sex with someone I love and who loves me. I wonder if your husband does too?

The whole experience has made us realize that it is possible that I might come across more love in my life. When we get there Mono and I will likely break up. He just will not be able to accommodate that. You seem to be saying that you CAN accommodate that and are willing to! Why not now? He loves this woman, you have known that for years, yet you cling to him and seem to not be willing to let him go. Why? I don't get it.... sure you are feeling betrayed, I get that. But that's it? Your man is giving you some information here and you are avoiding it.... HE LOVES HER AND IS POLY. What are you going to do about that....? My suggestion would be to allow your heart to open and let him go to her. Work on boundaries so that you get the time with him you need and let him go. He has proven he will stick by you. Show him some respect and gratitude for his loving you and let him go. That pain you are feeling is not going to go away until you decide to end it with him, or let him be who he is. He has stiffeled himself for two years! Is that not prove enough of his love and devotion to you?

redpepper

02-23-2011, 10:21 PM

Well I see from reading more that he not only was deceiving you but himself also. It seems the two of you have some learning to do about how poly can work. I stand by everything I say, even if he was a shmuck for not facing his fear and fighting that well learned feature of our culture, lying.

You asked what you should do now? I suggest doing some searches here, start with a tag search for "cheating" and "jealousy" and "boundaries" Then look at the stickies and find the thread on lessons learned and poly foundations... you can do a tag search for those too.

I would suggest getting on a heavy, honest conversation about boundaries and see how to work this woman in your life. He fucked up by thinking he could just be friends, but it isn't the end of the world, just time to look towards the future knowing that. For both of you.

Looking towards the future as soon as you can would be best I think... the longer you spend drowning in sorrow on either side the worse off. I don't mean that you should do things rashly, but get on talking... the only thing I think needs to happen quickly, as soon as it comes up and as often as is necessary is communicating. You don't have to agree to have him see her right away, but a time line for that happening. What will happen then. What you plan to do to deal with it. What you expect from him. What you expect from her. What kind of process you hope to use to get through this. Remember to keep it as fluid as you can... that way if something doesn't work, it can be changed after re-negotiating. You have a lot of work to do and a lot of questions to ask... when you are able to rise above the emotions, get to work.

*hugs* I feel for you both, really I do. I know what this feels like all too well :(

Derbylicious

02-23-2011, 11:28 PM

One of the boundary issues that I would talk about seriously with him is from now on, no more lying. On your side though, you have to be willing to listen and discuss things with him as well. The betrayal seems like it's a much bigger deal in your world than the fact that he was sexual with someone else. Rubuilding trust isn't something that happens overnight.

LovingRadiance

02-24-2011, 12:05 AM

In no way am I making excuses here, I completely agree that honesty is a necessity in a relationship.

But, just for the sake of being reasonable, please consider this...

1.

If you knew that someone whom you truly loved... was going to be destroyed emotionally by attributing false beliefs (i.e. believing that you don't love them, that they aren't "good enough"etc) to your actions (loving another person)....

would YOU tell them?

Do you tell your friend, sister, mother etc that she looks like crap and needs to deal with her diet and exercise?

Do you tell your children that their "beautiful" artwork actually looks like crap?

I'm not saying that you SHOULD or that you SHOULD NOT. I'm just saying, the large majority of people lie on a regular basis and so long as that's true, even if it's not about the same TOPIC or to the same PERSON, it's really not fair, reasonable, or rational to tell another that they "shouldn't" lie.

(that said, if HE asked my thoughts-I would ride his ass for lying-but it's not him asking for advice)

2.

Polyamory isn't being in love with one and having other "just friends". While it may have felt safer for you to say that he could retain the frienship but nothing more, it wasn't accepting him as polyamorous
AND
him agreeing to those terms WAS the appropriate step AT FIRST, to give you time to confront the new reality of who this man you are married to REALLY is.
BUT
he was wrong for not setting a time limit on that agreement, because by doing so he was setting himself (and the agreement and your relationships) up for failure.

3.

It is PERFECTLY ok for you to be monogamous. PERFECTLY. But, in life, we only get to control ourselves. It is also perfectly ok, PERFECTLY ok for him to be polyamorous.

In a world that continues to preach publicly that it's NOT ok for him to be what he is-he learns to fight against himself. Unfortunately, whether we like it or not, anytime we try to fight against the truth of who we are, we will eventually fail.

In essence, he lied to you, because he was lying to himself in order to try to be the man you wanted him to be and the man that he BELIEVED he was SUPPOSED to be.

If you want him to be honest, you have to allow for him to be the man he IS and be accepted by you as that man.

How many "poly-peeps" are in the closet? If they are in the closet, they are lying. They are lying about who they are to SOMEONE, because they are protecting themselves and/or their loves/family/children from the abuses that they have every reason to believe will come if they are honest.

People who know that being honest will cause them to be abused, whether it be emotional, mental, psychological, physical, sexual.... generally will lie for self-protection. This doesn't change until they learn that there is another way out-and frankly, this isn't something that is commonly taught in action right now.

It's easy to blame the liar, and make no mistake-I agree that lying is wrong,
but the truth is that we are all to blame for the messes we find ourselves in due to our own expectations.

Someone who feels safe and secure about sharing the truth about themselves, rarely lies about it. Human nature is to protect ourselves.

If we're in a burning building, and the fire reaches our bodies-without "logic" we will jump-even knowing that we're too high to live through the fall. Because the burn is happening already, but the landing is not. Firefighters watch this too often if they aren't onsite quite soon enough or don't have the necessary equipment to reach the victims.

4. You say that you love him and that he loves you. It's my understanding that loving someone means wanting what is best for them. Is that your understanding also? If so, are you REALLY loving him? (were he here I'd ask him the same) Are you loving him as a verb (action word), not a noun.....?

Sometimes, loving someone means letting them do/be/say/have what you would not want, because it's what is best for them.

Sometimes, loving someone means letting them go, because you aren't able to accept them for who they are, and in order to give them what is best for them, you have to allow them to be with people who can accept them for who they really are.....

Lemondrop

02-24-2011, 01:59 AM

I'm sorry, I have to be the dissenter. (I went back and tried to edit so that my words weren't too unkind, I hope that I don't come off as too harsh.) People know what lying is, and he knew that he was going to hurt you. Even if there was no happy choice available, he knew that he was taking an action that he shouldn't and he has to accept the consequences of his actions. He lied, he cheated, he knew he was destroying trust. He has to face the fact that the consequences are not going to be fun for him. And I don't accept that he couldn't love this woman and not have sex with her. Really? Just because you desire someone doesn't mean you have to have sex with them. If that's the definition of polyamory, guess what, I don't qualify.

Yes, it's torturous. But he said that he could just be friends. You took him at his word. If he wasn't brave enough to come to you when he realized that he couldn't handle that, that's on him. Otherwise, we all have to spend the rest of our lives trying to figure out what our partners "really" mean rather than believing they're telling the truth. That's crazy-making.

Ladyintricate, I really feel for you. But you stand at a crossroads, and you have to decide. Your husband is probably polyamorous--if you take him at his word, then he is. Can you live with that? Because you can no longer pretend that keeping him in a monogamous marriage is kind or realistic. From this point on, you *must* accept that he is going to have loving and/or sexual relationships with other women. The question is, will you be wife, or friend? (I'm assuming that, for the sake of your children, the two of you would attempt to be friends if you can't be spouses.)

If you decide to stay in the marriage and give polyamory a try, then you're going to have to try to rebuild the trust. It will be hard, but I know I've seen other people on this board do it. If you go back to therapy, this time try for a polyamory-friendly therapist. They are *so* worth it, and my experience has been that they won't be prejudiced against you if you're not polyamorous, in case that worries you. I think you should also think about the fact that he loves this woman, and perhaps--and I'm trying to be as kind as possible, but think about what I'm saying here--perhaps cutting him off *forever* from someone he loves is not a loving act. You're angry, and you have every right to be. You have had your trust broken, by both of them, and that showed a lack of respect from both of them. You deserve some space to figure things out. But if you decide to try to rebuild trust with him, you should try to rebuild trust with her, too. She made the same mistake your husband made, and is worthy of the same amount of forgiveness. Please don't stay in the relationship if you aren't going to eventually be able to forgive; it's not kind to you, your husband, or your children.

You owe it to yourself to research polyamory thoroughly. You owe it to yourself to do some soul-searching and honest self-examination. Let yourself really feel the explanations that LR gave you for why he might have done what he did; understanding his motivations might help you find your way. You owe it to yourself, your kids, and your husband to be completely aware of what you want, what you need, and where you go from here, and communicate it with yourself and your husband.

ladyintricate

02-24-2011, 02:11 AM

I want to clarify:
In the time before he told me he was poly (this was also before he realized it fully himself) and we were completely monogamous up to that point, to when he told me he was poly- to now, I have always encouraged communication with my husband and honesty. I have always said that we can do anything if we tackle it together.

I have and would NEVER say that he was wrong for loving someone or in needing to be himself. I love HIM. He says himself that he had a lot of shame from his childhood that he imposed on himself for years that prevented him from even facing who he was to himself. What I said to him was that his choice in being dishonest with me was a poor decision and that this hurt me. It especially hurt because my husband, the woman (A.), and myself , had agreed that they would NOT cross that line into sex or anything other than platonic love. This seems pretty unrealistic now to me, but my husband said that this decision was ok with him and that he loved her and me, but that he did not have to have a sexual or physical relationship with A. in order for him to be happy.

The reason I cannot be ok with him and A. having a relationship now is that he and she broke that promise to me (they had sex). They broke that promise to me multiple times and I then found out about it. I was not told about it by my husband, as I would have expected to be (And had asked him to) or by A. Our decision come to by the 3 of us was that this was going to be platonic and that if something with that changed, or if my husband and A were not able to do that, or if anyone’s needs changed then we would talk. They did not talk to me until after I confronted my husband.

Anyway, I did read what you have all said and I appreciate the feedback. I think now that I was naïve and my husband was too in the way we handled things 2 years ago. Clearly the “platonic” situation did not work. This is all new to both of us. I have been reading many posts on here and they have filled me with a lot of hope for us. I have been reading quite a few of MonoVCPHG and Redpepper’s posts, for instance, and also Sage’s and her blog. Thank you for being here. I will continue to read and learn.

My husband J. and I had a long talk today and we are both feeling much better. We now have a crystal clear 100% honesty policy between us. I also told him that I 100% love him as he is and for who he is. He told me that he knows that because that is what I have always told him. I feel so much better tonight because we have decided to do what we should have done when he realized he was poly: work on our own individual stuff (we are both going to go to a counselor separately) and then once we both feel more secure in ourselves, we are going to explore what role a third person will have in our life together. I want him to be happy and I also feel that I have the capacity to grow. Sage’s blog is an inspiration to me.

J. and I don’t know what is going to happen in the future except that we both love each other and we are going to be honest and open and truly take that journey together.

LovingRadiance

02-24-2011, 02:13 AM

People know what lying is, and he knew that he was going to hurt you. Even if there was no happy choice available, he knew that he was taking an action that he shouldn't and he has to accept the consequences of his actions. He lied, he cheated, he knew he was destroying trust. He has to face the fact that the consequences are not going to be fun for him. And I don't accept that he couldn't love this woman and not have sex with her.

I agree with you lemon, but he's not on here asking for advice about what to do. She can't do ANYTHING about him, who he is or what he does, except attempt to understand it as best as possible in order to make a choice as to where she wants to go with her life. ;)

Believe me you-if HE were the one posting, I'd be ALL OVER the fact that he needs to stop lying to HIMSELF so that he can stop lying to HER and move on to having a happy life.
Just like I had to. ;)

LovingRadiance

02-24-2011, 02:25 AM

I'm so glad to hear that you are both going to seek therapy for your individual issues and work together on a resolution. It's so hard to find it in our hearts to let go of the need to "be right" sometimes, but we have to if we want to be happy. SOMETIMES, we're both wrong! :eek:

As for the promise breaking, I DO understand exactly what you are saying. It hurts, a LOT when people break their promises. But, we've all broken promises before and it's not impossible to look into ourselves and see that when we've done it, it usually wasn't out of a desire to hurt the other person, but out of a lack within ourselves. If we aren't able to gain forgiveness for that lack after we've fixed it... where does that leave us? All of us?

I'm NOT telling you that he SHOULD be with that woman or any woman for that matter, just giving you food for thought.

I had an affair that lasted 7 years. I do love my husband, I did know it was wrong to lie. I couldn't see a way to be true to myself without lying, until I finally did see it. It took me 7 years to find it.

Not only did I have an affair, but I also got pregnant and had an abortion. Aborted what would have been my lovers first child, his parents first grandchild....

I hurt so many people, not least of all, myself.

But, when I realized what path it was that I needed to take, when I figured out how to be real, be true to myself AND be true to both Maca and GG.... I started busting my ass to get myself on the right path. One of the key motivators, was the ongoing support and love from BOTH of them.

It HAS NOT been easy for Maca to learn to forgive me for my transgressions.
It HAS NOT been easy for Maca to learn to forgive GG for his.
It HAS NOT been easy for Maca to learn to accept and love GG for his place in our family.

BUT-even Maca would tell you, he can never punish GG or I as badly as we punish ourselves every day for lying to him, hurting him, hurting our families, giving up our child... Holding onto that anger, resentment and grudge, was hurting him. By forgiving us, he actually causes us more pain-because we can't help but feel even shittier for our actions, even amidst our appreciation for his forgiveness, because his choice to forgive us is so much more "right" than our choices were.

Think on it-you may find that it's better for YOU to forgive and set aside the anger, animosity and grudge against them. Regardless of how it may "appear" to benefit them, it may be even MORE beneficial to you.

;)

Good luck!

ladyintricate

02-24-2011, 02:47 AM

As for the promise breaking, I DO understand exactly what you are saying. It hurts, a LOT when people break their promises. But, we've all broken promises before and it's not impossible to look into ourselves and see that when we've done it, it usually wasn't out of a desire to hurt the other person, but out of a lack within ourselves. If we aren't able to gain forgiveness for that lack after we've fixed it... where does that leave us? All of us?

I'm NOT telling you that he SHOULD be with that woman or any woman for that matter, just giving you food for thought.

......But, when I realized what path it was that I needed to take, when I figured out how to be real, be true to myself AND be true to both Maca and GG.... I started busting my ass to get myself on the right path. One of the key motivators, was the ongoing support and love from BOTH of them.

I am taking in a lot here and trying to be understanding to my husband and at the same time figure out what I need. We have decided together that we both very much want our marriage to work out. We love each other very much and we have been through a LOT together before this and hopefully will work through this together and be together through much more in the future. Either way we both know that whatever happens we will always love each other and be there for each other (even if it ends up that we are friends only).

That is wonderful that you are in a place now where you have the love that you need and want and they are getting what they need. We all definetely deserve love and forgiveness. Thank you for sharing your story with me.

I am trying not to completely rule out anything anymore. I have told J. that maybe someday we can include A. in our life again, but at this point in time I can not forsee that. I wish her the absolute best. She is a sweet person and I know that she wasn't happy about the cheating and lying to me. However, she still DID what she did (her actions are what bother me) and I had thought that she would have told me the truth - just as I thought he would have.

ANYWAYS...who knows what may happen in the future. We are taking this a day at a time. Also, there is a boyfriend (I know she would consider him a primary) on her side that is a friend of all of ours and he was cheated on as well. She and her BF are trying to figure out what they need and if they can continue also. This is a complicated situation for certain.

Also, on a lighter note: I noticed your "Love as thou wilt" quote. I love the Kushiel Series of books. I have always thought that people should live and love as they wish as long as they are open, honest and loving to each other. I also thought my husband and I were both mono. Heh. But I still believe the "Love as thou wilt" philosphy. I, of course, had a major crush on Jocelyn. :p Beautiful books!

redpepper

02-24-2011, 02:57 AM

I don't accept that he couldn't love this woman and not have sex with her. Really? Just because you desire someone doesn't mean you have to have sex with them.Just so you know... this is WAY FUCKING HARDER than you think... When you love someone a lot, you want to give to them, experience every part of them. Take them in,,, breath them in... it sometimes consumes you. To have constraints on that can sometimes twist in your head. It's VERY easy to rationalize and even decide that your other love is full of shit when you are in a moment that seemingly has no return.

I get what you are saying here. Really I do. The only thing that has worked for me is to be very clear and rational that the person I love, Leo, is not a good match for me in anyway beyond the "moment." I also asked for help. I asked him, and all my loves to make sure a "moment" doesn't happen again unless there is agreement from everyone, most of all myself. There is usually much more at play than the act of two people together in a moment.

If he really thought he was to be her friend, in my opinion, he should of asked for help to make sure it stayed like that.

to the OP.... good luck. Please let us know how you progress. We are all rooting for you... as they say in Canada "keep your stick on the ice" :p:o (that is so fucking lame! What kind of saying is that... GAUD!)

Derbylicious

02-24-2011, 04:22 AM

Are you sure that your husband and his girlfriend are going to be able to honour the agreement that they have with you now? They are in love and they have already shown through their actions that they have a really hard time staying within boundaries that have been set with the 3 of you together. Do you think it's possible to ask instead that they move slowly and to keep talking to you along the way. I'm not sure that telling them that they can't have contact is going to work. If they do resume contact without your knowledge how is that going to make you feel?

I don't know if he (or she) would feel comfortable coming to you to let you know that they wished to resume contact (on any level) and it seems to me that you're setting yourself up for more pain down the road by setting a more rigid boundary with him. We can't control who we love but we can control how we act on and act towards those we love.

SNeacail

02-24-2011, 04:30 AM

What Derby said.

Just so you know... this is WAY FUCKING HARDER than you think... When you love someone a lot, you want to give to them, experience every part of them. Take them in,,, breath them in... it sometimes consumes you. To have constraints on that can sometimes twist in your head. It's VERY easy to rationalize and even decide that your other love is full of shit when you are in a moment that seemingly has no return.

RP I'm glad you said this.

@Ladyintricate, I'm willing to bet that they didn't tell you, because they truly believed that even though they screwed up once that they wouldn't do it again (even if they eventually did) and telling you WOULD only bring you hurt and neither really wanted to hurt you. They were also probably very ashamed of their actions. My husband and I even as of a few hours ago, still stuggle with similar issues, where he doesn't tell me stuff to "save" my feelings. It's not right, I hate it, but it happens and I get it.

as they say in Canada "keep your stick on the ice" :p:o (that is so fucking lame! What kind of saying is that... GAUD!)

HeHe, I'm an So Cal girl and I get this quote.:D Not lame, if your stick is on the ice, your still in the game and the puck is in play, you have not given up. Now someone want to tell me how we here is Los Angeles have 2 Hockey teams, 2 Basketball teams, and 2 Baseball teams but NO Football team, there is just something wrong with that.

BlackUnicorn

02-24-2011, 10:47 AM

A big hug to ladyintricate!

GroundedSpirit

02-24-2011, 03:16 PM

...................

Now I am trying to figure out where do we go from here? I truly love him and I want him to be happy. I want ME to be happy too. No more lies, no more deceit, but how do we make this work?

Hello Lady,

It's unfortunate that things unfolded the way they did but if it's any help, understand that this seems the rule rather than the exception.

LovingRadiance has posted some very sage comments that ties in much of the reality of this. I would read this over, and over and over until I fully understood it.

I would only add possibly one thing that might add clarity.

It's critical to truly understand that loving more than one person is our NATURAL state ! We do it all the time in various other ways. It's only when it comes to what some call "romantic" love, sex etc that people have tried to change the rules.
But we all know what happens when people try to make rules that run against our basic human nature. The rules get broken unless we can identify some real danger more serious than our discomfort.

So what happens here is that in general, a church dominated culture has suppressed any real education and dialog regarding what love is and how we may deal with all it's various facets. So when these totally natural events eventually pop up - and they do for a majority of people - we have little knowledge how to proceed in any wise and caring manner. So we stumble, make mistakes, hurt ourselves and others and then cry foul.
What we needed to avoid this was not more rules that go against our basic natures, but more knowledge & understanding of this nature and constructive methods for dealing with it ! That seems to be what the growing public polyamourous culture is trying to bring to light.

It's entirely possible to live in complete harmony with ourselves and loved ones, but like so many other things, we need some 'lessons'. A little help. A little support along the way.

If you can embrace this, this place along with many others, books and other resources can ease this transition into a more natural way of living & relating.

All I can suggest is wipe the past clean. Don't hang onto mistakes born of ignorance. You both TRIED to navigate this with what little knowledge & instinct you had. It simply wasn't enough. Nobody is truly at 'fault' except the culture that has tried to suppress basic human nature. Take a deep breath, get learning and TALKING ! Incessantly ! Forgive each other if that helps.
Start again. This time wiser and more curious.

We're all here to help any way we can.

GS

FlameKat

02-24-2011, 03:32 PM

Well said - both Loving Radiance and Grounded Spirit...

I have nothing to add that would not sound trite next to their words of wisdom...

hugs to you and I hope you find the peace in your heart to move forward a step at a time :)

ladyintricate

02-26-2011, 12:38 AM

Thanks so much everyone. Your words and the dialogue in general have helped me get some perspective and feel some much needed support. We don't know anyone in our area (Houston, TX) that is polyamorous (although I am sure they are here) and all that the few friends I have told about the situation keep telling me is to leave him, or their was something I wasn’t giving him so he went to find it with another woman, or he is just being selfish, and blah, blah, blah.

That kind of talk and perspective, while I realize they are on my "side;" is not helpful to me at all (or to him, obviously). I truly believe him when he tells me he knows he royally messed up when he lied to me and acted dishonestly and that he does love me and always has. He WAS trying to protect me and that was why he lied and it got out of hand. I have made it VERY clear that I need him to treat me like an equal and be completely honest from here on out.

However, as much as I am trying to empathize with him (and I feel that I do for the most part – I see him hurting) that he loves A. and misses her, I also recognize that MY needs at this time are that he does not have contact with her. We have talked about this at length and he understands that and that she betrayed me almost as much as he did. For now he has not contacted her at all (except the day after I found out when we agreed that he would call her and say good bye to her) and he says that he understands why this is something that I need to heal. I have told him that maybe (but at this point I don’t see it changing) in the future this will change. My husband and I are being brutally honest at this point. We are both so happy that the lies are done and he told me just last night that me being able to accept him for truly himself was something that he didn’t think anyone could do, so he didn’t really give me the chance. He is so happy now that everything between us is in the open and that we are now working together to find out what will make us both happy means the world to him (and me!).

We have an agreement that we both need to work through this time and both heal and then we will re-evaluate. Do you think we should talk about a time frame with this – when we will re-evaluate, I mean?

Keep in mind that A. also had a boyfriend who has been with her well before my husband met her and he is all of our friend as well. He had no idea of their having a physical relationship until this came to light and is very hurt also. They are working on their relationship that was supposed to be monogamous, too.

Anyway, I don’t want to seem like I am defensive. I really have had my eyes opened to the fact that a part of who my husband is means that he has the capacity to love more than one person deeply at a time. This is not at all a bad thing about him. It is beautiful, in fact.

All of the changes that this brings to my perceptions have me reeling right now, but the complete honesty and the love that we are making sure we are expressing every day to each other is helping me get through this.

Also, even though he hasn’t posted anything on the forum, you better believe he and I are reading these posts together. :D

Much love to all of you!

LovingRadiance

02-26-2011, 01:17 AM

We have an agreement that we both need to work through this time and both heal and then we will re-evaluate. Do you think we should talk about a time frame with this – when we will re-evaluate, I mean?

In my experience, yes. It's a very good idea to put a time-frame in for re-evaluating.
EVEN if what happens on that date is that you agree to extend to a new date, it shows good faith on both parts that you both understand that there is "work" to do, and that it needs to be done in a "timely" manner.

That doesn't mean that "everything" gets resolved at the next "evaluation". It just makes it easier to hold yourselves accountable and to see that you are both serious about holding yourselves accountable. ;)

redpepper

02-26-2011, 03:02 AM

agreeing with LR and am really happy for you that you are making some moves forward! Good for you :)

ladyintricate

03-15-2011, 07:14 PM

So…I figured I would give a bit of an update on what has been going on. It has been going on 2 months since I found out my husband was cheating on me. The first 2 weeks were excruciating. I had a lot of anxiety because I felt like my world had been turned upside down and that I couldn’t trust anyone.

I am feeling much stronger and calmer now. My husband and I have been going to counseling individually. Eventually we are going to go together, but right now we are working on our own individual issues. I have told him that I just cannot have A. in our life and be happy. I told him that I am sorry and I feel for his pain in not having her in his life anymore, but that this is the way it has to be for now. He agreed to this and has been very good about no contact. We continue to be friends with A’s boyfriend (who is currently still with her) and have spent time with him on a few different weekends talking and hanging out.

It hurts me to see my husband hurting because he cannot see the other woman he loves, but I cannot and will not lie to myself again and tell myself that I will be ok if she is in our lives. At this time I will not be ok. I will be panicky and scared every minute. I have told hubby that I am sorry for putting him through this and that he is a beautiful person in my eyes, inside and out.

Right now I worry about his deceiving me before with the cheating and that it will happen again. Just last night I asked him if I could look at his text messages (this was how I found out about the affair to begin with) in front of him because it would make me feel more secure and he deleted a message before he would let me see. This all ended up resulting in me finding out that he had seen A earlier that day by accident when he was at his job and in the same area of town that she works in as well. I was very hurt and mad that he hadn’t just told me that to begin with because pretty much this exact scenario we had talked about maybe happening and I had said that as long as he was honest with me it would be ok. He delete the text message, lied to me about it, and then when I confronted him because I could tell he was lying, he finally told me the truth.

We have talked and still talk A LOT about all of this, our feelings, how we are hurting, what we need, what we want, everything. I am very reassuring to him. I don’t understand why his default seems to be to lie to me.

Anyway, I guess the update in a nutshell is that things are better, but moving very slowly. We have agreed to re-evaluate every month as to the situation and how we are both doing and what our needs are. He says that my needing him to not have contact with her is hard, but understandable and he can do that, yet he lied last night about something that need not have been a big deal at all (it was an accident that he saw her, that is totally understandable). How are we ever going to move forward if the lies continue?

SNeacail

03-15-2011, 07:28 PM

Just an FYI - my cell phone bill shows the phone numbers of any incoming and outgoing texts, the text itself doesn't show up, just the number. Wouldn't have helped me when I discovered my husbands affair, because he uses a work phone, but I do watch my kids messages.

My husband's default for a LONG time was also to lie to me, even small stupid stuff, like how much he spent at the grocery store (as if I couldn't find out from the bank statement):rolleyes:. I think we are getting past that with the help of the marriage councelor. I actually told him one day that he might as well just punch me in the gut, it would hurt less and I'd get over it quicker. When they lie about small stupid stuff, there is no way to trust them with the big stuff, there will always be doubt.

ladyintricate

03-15-2011, 09:13 PM

I actually told him one day that he might as well just punch me in the gut, it would hurt less and I'd get over it quicker. When they lie about small stupid stuff, there is no way to trust them with the big stuff, there will always be doubt.

SNeacail, I completely agree (with the punch in the gut and everything else) and I have told him this. I think that maybe in my husband's case he is very afraid of rejection or of me leaving him. He also has lied about realyl dunb stuff in the past that doesn't make any sense. Ex: one time he lied about how he had done the dishes. I looked over and saw a sink full of dishes sitting there. I had to raise an eyebrow and say, "Ummm...you did?" Look!"

I am glad to hear that the counseling is helping with you and your husband, hopefully it will with us also. I still have a lot of love and hope. :)

He says that he very much wants to have an honest relationship and he loves me but that it is very hard for him. I can understand this, but it makes it VERY hard for me to be able to trust him, especially right now. :(

nycindie

03-15-2011, 10:23 PM

I have found that even when two people agree to be "completely honest" about everything, that still often means something different to each of them.

I think that he probably thought that telling you might've hurt your feelings, and so his first inclination is to protect you from hurting, coupled with protecting himself from any possible fallout. Often I find that men just cannot believe that women want the whole story - they've been programmed to keep us safe, or what they perceive as safe. Hence, we are in the dark a lot of the time.

I am curious, though. If it was an innocent situation in which they just bumped into each other while out and about, why was there a text message? Who followed up the encounter with a text and who responded? That seems like going against your ground rules, too.

SNeacail

03-15-2011, 10:29 PM

I think that he probably thought that telling you might've hurt your feelings, and so his first inclination is to protect you from hurting, coupled with protecting himself from any possible fallout.

I will have to say, it is usually not to protect the person being lied to (although they may use that as a justification once they get caught), but it is definitely to avoid dealing with the possible fallout. It is purely selfish. Sorry, I know that sounds really cynical.

kreeativ

03-16-2011, 12:18 AM

things are better?? yea things sound better, not. why do people put themselves through so much agony for something they think is love. of course everybody has their own version of love,but true love has only one definition,and it aint whats going on in this little story. egos run rampant.

Penny

03-16-2011, 03:55 PM

ladyintricate

03-18-2011, 06:24 PM

I am curious, though. If it was an innocent situation in which they just bumped into each other while out and about, why was there a text message? Who followed up the encounter with a text and who responded? That seems like going against your ground rules, too.

It was A's boyfriend (I will call him B) who my husband had texted that day. He is also our mutual friend. That was what made the situation even more difficult the other night was that when I confronted hubby about why he deleted the text message and he gave me a vague answer, I then felt like I couldn’t trust him or B. I wondered WHAT had they been talking about?! Were they planning something that was against my ground rules or talking about something that had already happened and that was why he had deleted the text message?

I confronted hubby on all of this and told him that I felt like I couldn’t trust either of them after that (can I trust ANYONE, period, anymore?!). This was when hubby came clean about seeing A that day on accident and he said that the text message said that he had seen her to B. he also said that he was going to tell me about it, but I had asked to see the text message before he got the chance and he panicked.

Obviously there are a lot of messed up behaviors in this mess of a night. I am really worried that hubby’s default is to lie because he is so afraid of rejection. One of the difficult things for me in all of this is that i have never rejected him. He never realyl gave me the chance to accept or reject him. He was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to accept that he was poly that he was never straight with me about what he actually needed and kept it all a secret until it got way out of control and led to a big betrayal. I have no way of knowing for sure what could have happened if he had told me right upfront BEFORE anything happened that he had romantic feelings for A and he wanted to have a romantic/physical relationship with her, what would have happened. I know I wouldn't have been instantly ok with it, but I believe that it would have been better for all involved if the trust had not been so badly broken with the lies and cheatig.

I am starting to come to grips with 2 things in this situation. 1.) I can not control him – he will do what he really wants to do, and 2.) I do not trust A or B in so much as that they respect our marriage and although I will be friendly to B, I no longer feel that I can trust him as a friend.

I will never officially “know” what the text message said, I have to go on what hubby said and what my gut tells me. It tells me that the truth did eventually come out and that he was worried that I would not believe him when he said nothing happened and then I would leave him so he lied about it.

I am working on figuring out what I want and need from our marriage and so is he. For now we have both agreed that we want to continue to be married and we love each other. It is also agreed upon that honesty is very important to build up trust between us. Honesty does not come easy to him, this is something I think I have been in denial about for a long time. I have realized that TRUE honesty is something that I need going forward and hopefully through therapy and talking about things at length each step of the way we can achieve that.

It should be said that hubby has done a lot right during the roughly 2 months since I found out about the affair. The 2 things I said I needed in the immediate aftermath were: we are going to therapy to work on our own issues as well as those as a couple AND no contact with A. I feel confident that he has followed through on both of these. He is actually in a therapy session right now by himself while I am at work typing this. I hope it goes well for him.

I know that it appears that I am not giving a lot right now, but my part is for the moment to accept him for who he is, be supportive and loving of who he is and that this is hard for him as well as for me (that part is not difficult at all). Also, to wrap my head around the betrayal that took place and that our future together is likely not going to be just the two of us, but possibly him and I and another person. In some ways I am really coming around to this idea, but in other ways I feel like I can’t trust him enough to do that because of the lies and sneakiness that lead us to this moment.

Anyway, I hope that answered your question, NYCindie. Sorry about the book. Thanks for your support and everyone's who has given me feedback and advice. This forum means the world to me right now. :)

LovingRadiance

03-19-2011, 01:12 AM

I am really worried that hubby’s default is to lie because he is so afraid of rejection. One of the difficult things for me in all of this is that i have never rejected him. He never realyl gave me the chance to accept or reject him.
That's one of the struggles I have with Maca. I'm the poly one and the one who cheated.
But, when I found out about polyamory-I had started researching how the hell to fix my relationship and get my own head straight. I realized I had to come clean with myself first-and then the rest of the world. I've worked my butt off to be honest (sometimes to a fault I fear) since then.
Unfortunately, that isn't always true for Maca and I keep wondering if he is going to have to go through the nightmare I did from decieving myself and him and the whole affair before he understands what it means to be really and truly honest?

He was so afraid that I wouldn't be able to accept that he was poly that he was never straight with me about what he actually needed and kept it all a secret until it got way out of control and led to a big betrayal. I have no way of knowing for sure what could have happened if he had told me right upfront BEFORE anything happened that he had romantic feelings for A and he wanted to have a romantic/physical relationship with her, what would have happened. I know I wouldn't have been instantly ok with it, but I believe that it would have been better for all involved if the trust had not been so badly broken with the lies and cheatig.I absolutely agree with that. I wish I had been more aware of myself and not put us through so much hell. :( I can never delete those memories for any of us.

Honesty does not come easy to him, this is something I think I have been in denial about for a long time. I have realized that TRUE honesty is something that I need going forward and hopefully through therapy and talking about things at length each step of the way we can achieve that. I hope that helps! I hope it helps us too. :) I know for me, reading on this board helped me A LOT with finding truth and honesty in myself. Also-the other thing that really helped was reading about "radical honesty" (there is a book-but I didn't read the book just a lot of articles).

It should be said that hubby has done a lot right during the roughly 2 months since I found out about the affair. The 2 things I said I needed in the immediate aftermath were: we are going to therapy to work on our own issues as well as those as a couple AND no contact with A. I feel confident that he has followed through on both of these. I'm glad. It's important, for both of you. ;)

In some ways I am really coming around to this idea, but in other ways I feel like I can’t trust him enough to do that because of the lies and sneakiness that lead us to this moment.That's perfectly reasonable. I've been on both sides of that coin. It's hard.

This forum means the world to me right now. I for one am glad you're here. ;) keep sharing.

BlackUnicorn

03-19-2011, 04:26 PM

Thespian

03-21-2011, 02:47 PM

I realised I was poly when I fell in love with another woman. My wife and I were not good at communicating at that time so, to my regret, I failed to talk to her before beginning an affair. Of course she found out and it did make us reconsider our relationship and begin talking properly. Even after my wife knew about my affair I found myself effectively lying (or at least not being completely open) about silly things like meeting my other for coffee. It just seemed to cause more trouble to be honest than it was worth.

Sadly my wife was unable to deal with me loving two women and I have split with my second love because I could not handle the pain I was causing. I have issues with my wife now because she would not try to learn anything about polyamory. I hope I can overcome this resentment.

Believe me that it is possible to love two people, and for me it was the difference between the women that was so much part of it. So it was nothing that my wife was doing wrong, nor anything she was being that was the problem. I would not have wanted her to become more like my new love.

Anyway, just some thoughts from the other side.

kreeativ

03-21-2011, 05:01 PM

something i realized long ago is we cant be resposible for others feelings. they will choose what they choose to feel and they have the right to feel how ever they choose. by "protecting" them from there own feelings by lying is a control issue. and by robbing them of there feelings on something could very well inhibit their own growth process. thats why somebody said the truth shall set you free.

ladyintricate

03-22-2011, 05:10 PM

something i realized long ago is we cant be resposible for others feelings. they will choose what they choose to feel and they have the right to feel how ever they choose.

I agree completely. This is something that my husband has had to face. He is also facing that he lied to himself just as much as to me.

ladyintricate

03-22-2011, 05:16 PM

I have a super-embarrassing tendency to sometimes get into the same reflexive lying trap. My reasoning behind this is something as lame as 'I don't want to hurt them', 'This is not the place to deal with this, let's get home first' or 'I need time to figure out how to break this out to them softly'. When confronted over the phone, I'm especially prone to guttural reactions like these. It's a bad communication peeve I need to work to get rid off.

There is a time and a place for things. Telling someone bad news when they are in another crisis or when you are at a group family function, for example, is probably not the best idea.

However, I think for the vast majority of the time, telling those you care about the naked truth saves them more pain in the long run. Also, by not telling them the truth you are robbing them of the true story and possibly yourself of what their true reaction would be. My husband thought I would hate him and leave him if I knew about him being poly so he lied and cheated on me. Now he realizes that him being poly is not a bad thing to me, it is the betrayal and the lies that have almost split us apart.

We live, we learn (hopefully...;)).

I am trying to learn that I cannot control things except myself. He will be him and I will be me. I am also learning what I need and what I want and seperating that from his needs and wants. I have a long way to go on this. :o

ladyintricate

03-22-2011, 05:25 PM

Believe me that it is possible to love two people, and for me it was the difference between the women that was so much part of it. So it was nothing that my wife was doing wrong, nor anything she was being that was the problem. I would not have wanted her to become more like my new love.

Anyway, just some thoughts from the other side.

Thanks, Thespian! You sound just like my husband in the quote above. He has told me that I was and am perfect the way I am and that was not why he fell in love with someone else. That helped me a lot in the very beginning because that was exactly what my first thoughts were: that I was inadequate and so he went looking.

I feel a lot of guilt for telling him that if he decided to stay with me then he cannot see A. (the woman he had the affair with) but I have had to come to terms with the fact that she represents so much betrayal and pain to me that I cannot even think her name without feeling pain. This is a NEED for me. She is clearly not going to be able to be our third, at least not anytime soon. I have been completely honest with hubby about this and I think he understands and although hurts, he has chosen me. We are taking this one day at a time and that is all we can do for now. I hope you and your love are doing well on your own journey. She still won't even talk about polyamory with you?