New to Poly Amory - Experiences, Thoughts, Feelings and Questions

[OneSoul]

New to Poly Amory - Experiences, Thoughts, Feelings and Questions

New to this space... Male, Young, Athletic, Well Traveled, Well Read, Spiritual.

HISTORY:

I have never been in a Poly-Amor relationship... or maybe I have.

I've been cheated on, I've been the guy who someone cheated with on someone else,

I've been in an open thing out of chance / accident / some choice - To shed more light.

THIS IS HOW THE THOUGHTS FIRST CAME ABOUT:

I was not committed to anyone person and was openly dating people. Met this girl at a club, we danced close (like a body wrap) and we flirted and talked about getting together (naughty, flirty conversations)..

Fast forward 1 month and a few short phone calls & flirting and logistical time / sched issues... We finally meet.

Dinner at her place, watching a DVD, and so on.. 3 am we are naked in bed. As we lie in each other arms.. We find out we're both casually dating several other people as well (at different levels / stages).

Given that I did not want to be tied down or committed at the time I was up only for a Casual Thing. She was doing the same (dating few people) but that night mentioned that she would rather just be with me... if at all I would indulge, based on how I was... Funny thing is THAT night itself she said she'd love to just be with me and not date other people if I chose so.

We kept in touch, met on & off.. Busy schedules, travel, etc. Over the time we dated I developed 'feelings' for her, but I did not like the clinginess and drama and SET expectations, schedules & drama that comes with a committed relationship.

Note: I HATE the DRAMA that a lot of committed relationships bring.

She would tell me "She loves me" several times.. I felt something but did not want to commit and/ or say those words. Once, it came out from within.. I said it.. I meant it. But I still did not want to be tied down, and more so.. Our time schedule & my travel logistics would not be ideal for a monogamous committed relationship.

The thing I realized about myself was I could hardly ever just be CASUAL. I CARE. I BEGIN TO CARE & LOVE. Poly-dating became amory at some level. I moved cities, but we talk once in a blue moon.

EXPERIENCE: LOVE, CARE & COMPASSION FOR MORE THAN ONE:

Whats funny is that I began to feel similar LOVE & CARE feelings for all the few women I was dating (as yet non sexual with some but flirty / romantic etc.). My dating multiple women & maybe just wanting casual relations and / or casual fuck buddies was not really want I wanted. I was just trying to not fall in love with one person (too much singular attachment & drama).

DEVELOPMENT: BRINGING IN THE NOTION OF BEING TOGETHER BUT STILL FREE:

Now, bringing up OTHER PEOPLE would have been wierd for me as well as her... at the get go. We were barely establishing our OWN chemistry. NO LIES WERE TOLD! by HER or by ME. No Commitments were made by her or me.

As I said, it might not have happened - we might not have made such good friends & lovers if we had "pre-diverted" into "other people chemistry" v/s "our chemistry".

I know, its kinda of on the edge, but i'm simply sharing a real life experience.

The thing is most people would probably love & accept Poly-A as long as they are assured & be secure of themselves & others .. Its the introduction BIT that can just cause RUFFLES... the anxiety & the fears of no CONTRACT of 100% Monogamy

Its the same place where a man & woman would choose to be Fuck Buddies / or Booty Calls but they would not have talked about THAT from the GET GO.. in EXPLICIT statements..

They build their chemistry as it comes... FBs, FwBs, Casual Dating / Short term Relationships, Open Dating / Open Relationships, Amorous / PolyAmorous, Exclusive Committed Monogamours ... Wherever it goes...

YOUR THOUGHTS?

SELF AWARENESS, SPIRITUALITY, PHILOSOPHY & SELF-FREEDOM & SELF-LOVE, UNIVERSAL LOVE:

I feel LOVE is FREEDOM. Being in LOVE is like FEELING FREE, FEELING UNAFRAID, FEELING NAKED - Mind, Body, Soul.

LOVE is not about TIED YOURSELF or SOMEONE ELSE DOWN.. to LIMITS, EXPECTATIONS & CONDITIONS .. YOU SET.

I know both because my experiences on the Spirtual Side with the DIVINE have no limits, expectations or CONDITIONS.. It is UNCONDITIONAL.. and ALL ACCEPTING.

The opposite is where some gets upset, nasty, angry & even devious for no reason in a so called monogamous love relationship when small trivial elements / mistakes / misunderstandings happen.

That is the whole point of LOVE.. To LOVE & ACCEPT someone AS THEY ARE.. ALL THEIR POSITIVES & NEGATIVES... Not just at the beginning of a relationship.. during a HIGH.. but throughout.. later.. when the Highs dont exist.. and a certain stability sets in.. (hopefully its not monotony).

ITS NOT ABOUT LOVING SOMEONE ELSE, BUT IN "INVOKING" INSIDE OF YOU.. A FEELING OF LOVE.

YOUR TRUE NATURE is LOVE, PEACE & JOY.

Why not be it? Why set limits, fears, conditions & expectations?

ANYWAYS... Thats me & my thoughts.

I AM CURIOUS HOW SOMEONE GOES ABOUT SETTING UP A POLY AMOR / LOVE thing from the GET GO without having to CONVINCE SOMEONE.. or DEAL with the DRAMA.. or...

CRITICAL QUESTION: At what stage in the DEVELOPMENT of that INTERACTION do you go DEEPER... into Poly & Related thoughts without hampering the progress of the initial chemistry build up.

MORE SO... FIND SOMEONE who ... WOULD ACCEPT OR ALREADY LOVES THIS MINDSET.

[NeonKaos]

Well you won't be told to edit your post for punctuation and paragraph breaks, that's one thing I'm sure of.

[OneSoul]

Well you won't be told to edit your post for punctuation and paragraph breaks, that's one thing I'm sure of.

Might I add... Pretty articulate, as well.

[Quath]

Might I add... Pretty articulate, as well.
Many initial posts are one huge paragraph. You went way in the other direction. Not bad or anything, just different.

CRITICAL QUESTION: At what stage in the DEVELOPMENT of that INTERACTION do you go DEEPER... into Poly & Related thoughts without hampering the progress of the initial chemistry build up.
Some people have said that by the third date you should have the poly talk. Some people say that in more modern dating, nonmonogamy is assumed until it is talked about. And when it is talked about, that is when the poly talk comes out.

Personally, I lean towards telling them once it starts to look like you want to keep dating the person. So it may take a few dates to know if you have the right chemistry.

One exception for me is that since I am married, I don't want to give the impression I am cheating. So I am up front from the beginning. (Oddly, more people are accepting of cheating than polyamory.)

The tougher wuestion ishow to present polyamory when it is time for the "ralk."

[NeonKaos]

Might I add... Pretty articulate, as well.

If you insist.

[XYZ123]

Some people have said that by the third date you should have the poly talk. Some people say that in more modern dating, nonmonogamy is assumed until it is talked about. And when it is talked about, that is when the poly talk comes out.



Really? Because I am 30 (not THAT far from "modern" dating) and I always found that it was MONOGAMY which was expected. I'd go on two dates with a guy and he'd introduce me as his girlfriend. This always confused me and is what led to being a serial monogamist. I thought this was what was expected, what was normal, so this was what I had to be.

I'm also married so I have to be upfront from the beginning I guess. Though I have no experience with someone who doesn't know me as a married woman. So I'm sure I'll be questioning this myself should it happen.

[OneSoul]

I am guessing it depends on how many pre conceived bindings and stipulations we come in with?

At the moment I am not seeing anyone.. Spent 1.5/2 years being Celibate after an era of varying experiences.

In my case, I am probably not thinking Poly or Mono from the start. Probably just imply & be clear about casual dating... and let the energies take things forward... Whether it becomes FBs, FwBs, Casual Dating or more preferably the former ones turning deeper into more caring, loving... Polys.

The thing is, I doubt I'd be comfortable sharing my views on / even considering any kind of mono or poly relationship until certain boundaries have been crossed. Its my inner life.. and to get to it.. you've got to deserve it.. earn it.

I give the same respect to the other person as well.

Having noticed young people dating these days.. I think Monogamy is almost never in tow until after the dating becomes more regular... (chemistry is established.. and now before it gets serious the commitment is questioned).

Funny thing is I was shocked to see how some suppossedly morally traditional women would play the field as well to get the max bang for the bucks out in the market.

[OneSoul]

Really? Because I am 30 (not THAT far from "modern" dating) and I always found that it was MONOGAMY which was expected. I'd go on two dates with a guy and he'd introduce me as his girlfriend. This always confused me and is what led to being a serial monogamist. I thought this was what was expected, what was normal, so this was what I had to be.

I'm also married so I have to be upfront from the beginning I guess. Though I have no experience with someone who doesn't know me as a married woman. So I'm sure I'll be questioning this myself should it happen.


Some people have said that by the third date you should have the poly talk. Some people say that in more modern dating, nonmonogamy is assumed until it is talked about. And when it is talked about, that is when the poly talk comes out.

Personally, I lean towards telling them once it starts to look like you want to keep dating the person. So it may take a few dates to know if you have the right chemistry.

I think Mono is what is wanted by people in the LONG RUN. But that is typically after people have played their field.. or do not have the opportunity/ ability to be playing the field.

i.e. Mono Commitment does not come right away/ upfront. In fact I know of women who would want Mono at the get go after first night... But would not hesitate to scope other opportunities & multi task big time.. Kinda seems like "shopping" for best buck.

Both sexes seem to PLAY the FIELD.. IF THEY CAN!... If you can milk it, do so.

If you cant then do what you can to get what you can.

Which is why it kinda scares me to put my feelings on the line.. until I know what LIES BENEATH in that person.

[MonoVCPHG]

:eek:I think Mono is what is wanted by people in the LONG RUN. But that is typically after people have played their field.. or do not have the opportunity/ ability to be playing the field.

.

If you think polyamory is about "playing a field" or not what some people want in the long run, then you either don't understand polyamory or have never met a truly polyamorous person.

I am completely monogamous and have a long monogamous history in marraige. Redpepper has alos been married for a considerable time, part of that mongamously. The three of us are not looking for monogamy in the long run because at the bare minimum that means someone loses out.

Even I don't want us to be monogamous because that would take away from her primary relationship and hurt her husband and son, both of which I care about intensley. We do want our poly relationship forever and are putting ourselves out there to achieve it.

Poly is not about searching. Poly is about loving more than one person and sharing for periods of our lives whether they be long or short. Everyone wants something differerent.

Living poly may be a stage...being poly is not.

And yet, I still find it hard to swallow.....luckily my heart is in the lead :D

[OneSoul]

In fact I think the primary reason for people seeking Mono Commitments is ..Security, Stability & Predictability. Its easier managed. But its not Mono they really want.. They want the assurance of S, S & P that comes with it.

But, true security can only come from within... No matter how much someone assures you, you have to love yourself from within to be secure.

:eek:

If you think polyamory is about "playing a field" or not what some people want in the long run, then you either don't understand polyamory or have never met a truly polyamorous person.


I am completely monogamous and have a long monogamous history in marraige. Redpepper has alos been married for a considerable time, part of that mongamously. The three of us are not looking for monogamy in the long run because at the bare minimum that means someone loses out.

Even I don't want us to be monogamous because that would take away from her primary relationship and hurt her husband and son, both of which I care about intensley. We do want our poly relationship forever and are putting ourselves out there to achieve it.

Poly is not about searching. Poly is about loving more than one person and sharing for periods of our lives whether they be long or short. Everyone wants something differerent.

Living poly may be a stage...being poly is not.

And yet, I still find it hard to swallow.....luckily my heart is in the lead :D

I never said Polyamory is about playing the field.
I said, I see and note in the dating world what makes people jump from one to the other... the way people play... without knowing why they do so. Extremely unaware.

There are those that LATCH on to the security of a Mono Commitment in hopes of consistency. Some are too insecure to be alone or try & play the field .. or be honest to their poly inclinations..
They are those who PLAY with non committed poly gamy.. Enjoy the field without feelings.. aka Casual Sex & Casual / Short term things..
There are those who are serially mono.. but jump ship to ship to ship.. looking for something that can never be found..
A mix of several above things & what not..

Poly does not mean that you have to raise kids together .. does it? For some it does.. right?

I'd say.. being POLY is our nature. For each an expression of that may vary. We love our friends, partners, family, co workers, strangers.
We LOVE to LOVE.

So what is Poly?
It breaks through all norms of what can be called LOVE.

The question is.. do most people even know what LOVE is?

Love is not something to do with the other person.
Love is not a feeling.
Love is not something WE DO.
Love is our NATURE. Our True Nature..

When we allow that to come through...dont hide / resist our true nature, it makes us feel elated.
When it becomes part of us 24/7... then we are like a Buddha or Jesus or Krishna... who loves everyone & everything & entire universe unconditionally everywhere.

Love is the inner essence that rises within us... When you see an attractive person (whatever your orientation) the essence that rises is LOVE... and then when you want to POSSESS that person.. Own that person... that is NOT LOVE.

The same happens when you see a lovely scene in nature (sunset, mountains, beaches ..etc) or a little child or something Attractive..

Love is the feeling of BELONGING, yet one of FREEDOM.

When you FEEL LOVE.. You feel FREE.. Like a Bird.. Formless.. Free.. Like a Cloud.. Like the Wind.. Like a Bird..

[Rarechild]

Hello, no time to really comment, but I wanted to say welcome and I look forward to your participation on the forum.

[Fidelia]

Hi 1Soul:

As often happens when a person is standing outside of a situation, the "answer" to the heart of your question seems straightforward to me, so I'm going to address it in a straightforward way.

I AM CURIOUS HOW SOMEONE GOES ABOUT SETTING UP A POLY AMOR / LOVE thing from the GET GO . . . without having to CONVINCE SOMEONE . . . By knowing what you want and communicating your intentions and desires clearly from the get-go. This allows everyone involved to know what you want and to make informed choices. If the person you're interested in is unfamilar with the concept(s) of poly, you may need to answer questions. But ultimately, if you're clear from the beginning that you want a polyamorous relationship, potential partners will either accept that and continue developing the potential, or not (in which case they were not the best match for you anyway.)

. . .or DEAL with the DRAMA.. or... Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but people come with issues, and for everyone I know, issues erupt into drama sometimes. It's part of the human condition. The extent, depth, and duration of dramatic episodes depends on how effectively the issues are addressed.

I hope my straightforward approach does not rub you the wrong way. Good luck to you and happy hunting. I hope you find what you're looking for.

[MonoVCPHG]

When you see an attractive person (whatever your orientation) the essence that rises is LOVE.

I'm going to beg to differ on this one...I don't think love is the feeling that arises simply from seeing an attractive person without knowing them and based soley on a physical assessment..I think it is more commonly, "damn that's a nice ass" or "boy I'd like to fuck them".

What arises when you see a physically unattractive person....hate?

[XYZ123]

What arises when you see a physically unattractive person....hate?

My lunch. Depending on how unattractive they are. :rolleyes:

[MonoVCPHG]

My last comment came off a bit strong I think. The idea of someone associating immediate sexual attraction with love triggers some of my personal self awareness stuff.


From Redpepper - she doesn't think monogamy is what people want in the long run so much as fidelity. We want to know people will be there for us, committed to us, and honest with us.

Take care and I hope my comments have not come off as too direct. We are going through a touchy time with coming out to the remainder of family in the area and are all a little raw.

Peace and love
Mono

[OneSoul]

Hi 1Soul:

As often happens when a person is standing outside of a situation, the "answer" to the heart of your question seems straightforward to me, so I'm going to address it in a straightforward way.

By knowing what you want and communicating your intentions and desires clearly from the get-go. This allows everyone involved to know what you want and to make informed choices. If the person you're interested in is unfamilar with the concept(s) of poly, you may need to answer questions. But ultimately, if you're clear from the beginning that you want a polyamorous relationship, potential partners will either accept that and continue developing the potential, or not (in which case they were not the best match for you anyway.)

Sorry to be the one to break it to you, but people come with issues, and for everyone I know, issues erupt into drama sometimes. It's part of the human condition. The extent, depth, and duration of dramatic episodes depends on how effectively the issues are addressed.

I hope my straightforward approach does not rub you the wrong way. Good luck to you and happy hunting. I hope you find what you're looking for.

Which is why the conscious must rise because the unconscious is driven by reaction.

People are not their thoughts & emotions. They think they are and it brings them all kinds of sadness. (Peaceful Warrior).

I'm going to beg to differ on this one...I don't think love is the feeling that arises simply from seeing an attractive person without knowing them and based soley on a physical assessment..I think it is more commonly, "damn that's a nice ass" or "boy I'd like to fuck them".

What arises when you see a physically unattractive person....hate?

No. I am not talking in terms of just an attractive person. I am talking about anything that causes and EXPANSION in your consciousness.

Lovely breeze, a graceful dancer, a cute child, an unattractive person with a genuine laugh on their face... A sunset or mountains... or beach.. A nostalgic thought..

Anything that causes that RISE in your consciousness.. EXPANSION. That is love.

Trying to hold on to it.. Is not. That is possession.
For the exact same reason that you can Enjoy the HUG of someone but give it another 10-20 minutes and you want a break.

Maybe this kind of talk is gonna be understood once you get the SPIRITUAL NOTION of the word love... Not the limited "love" we use in our inter-personal relations.

My last comment came off a bit strong I think. The idea of someone associating immediate sexual attraction with love triggers some of my personal self awareness stuff.

From Redpepper - she doesn't think monogamy is what people want in the long run so much as fidelity. We want to know people will be there for us, committed to us, and honest with us.

Take care and I hope my comments have not come off as too direct. We are going through a touchy time with coming out to the remainder of family in the area and are all a little raw.

Peace and love
Mono

Nope :) None taken.

That wanting to have SEX is not LOVE. But it comes from the place of LOVE.

What is love.. to Belong, to Unite, to Re-Unite, to Re-connect with the OWN SELF.. where there is no time, space or thoughts.

Why for one moment of orgasm do we crave so much? Ever thought about it...?

Its the moment where we are NO MIND, NO SEPARATION, NO THOUGHTS, NO ME, NO YOU... No sense of past or future.

NO... I am. You Are..

In that VERY MOMENT.. You are just BEING.. in that NOW..

Here, Now, without any thoughts, labels, ideas, past or future.
IMMERSED INTO THE MOMENT.

The same happens when you see a lovely scene.. etc.. The above conditions.

[MonoVCPHG]

:D For the record...One Soul...I understand our communication issues a bit better now. We have different spirituality approaches to love in general. I don't think either is more developed or expansive. I think we are simply different in our world approach to connection. This is nothing new for me within the poly forums or the poly community I associate in. I often find myself on different wave lengths. Then again I am not poly so go figure :eek:

[Fidelia]

OneSoul:

If you choose to quote me in the future, please do so accurately, including enough pericopy for a reader to follow the point. Leaving out the quotations to which I was responding, as you have done here, makes the point less than clear.

[NeonKaos]

OneSoul:
. Leaving out the quotations to which I was responding, as you have done here, makes the point less than clear.

The software automatically does that. It only preserves quotes one level deep. It erases quotes within quotes. In order to do that, you have to put them in manually or go back to the parent post and multi-quote them.

Maybe this is something the admin can tweak, since I belong to other forums that use this VBulletin software and they do multigenerational quotes all the time.

[Fidelia]

Ah. Thanks for clarifying that, Ygirl.

[OneSoul]

What is our true nature?

As children did we every hold on to Old issues or worry about the Future?
Children live in the Moment. In the present...

They have within them always the following energies naturally (unless ofcourse exceptional circumstances)..
- Love - Natural affinity & curiosity for most things, people etc.
- Peace - Always at peace
- Joy - Always have a smile on their faces.. Even if they cry or get upset.. They forget about it soon.. Or its realy easy to move them forward to the next moment.. even if they get hurt..(fall down etc).. We can call it distracting them from injury but really.. The physical pain might still be there.. But..

They DO NO IDENTIFY with it.. They move forward past those moments.. :)

That is our TRUE NATURE. Within us..

Its these moments we seek.. in everything we do. Anything & everythin enjoyable is about getting IMMERSED.. INTO THAT MOMENT.. No past or future.

Love, Sex, Orgasm, Beauty, Art, Music, Dance, Children, Playing, Sports, Meditation etc..

When we are lost in that moment, living completely... we do not think past or future..

Its the past or future thoughts that bring misery.

Expectations of how something SHOULD BE.. v/s HOW IT IS.. brings misery.

What I am trying to get to is... When you are FREE to BE.. YOU.. without having to BEND to or CHANGE to or CATER to.. Someone elses boundaries or expecataions.. or behaviors.. Non judgementally completely accepting & accepted.

Even in the notion of love.. with someone..

Try & remember how you felt.. best times... & worst times in a relationship..

Its when you cant BE.. because someone wants you to be a certain way... or you are in automatic inner conflict because you're stopping yourself from BEING.. to PLEASE someone else's Need & Expectation.

Isnt this why, initially people are in love (or think they are in love.. because they are just BEING & ACCEPTING & consc expands).. they ACCEPT people as THEY ARE.. completely.. and then when the CONSC contracts.. they start to nit pick the other...
labeling & judging.. and later even being hard on yourself & judging..

Where is the love & where is the freedome to BE and Let BE?

I dont know if you get my notion of Love? This is what I know is LOVE.

[MonoVCPHG]

As children did we every hold on to Old issues or worry about the Future?
Children live in the Moment. In the present...

.

Children are not near so simple. A lot of people think they are becasue they don't take the time to really communicate with them. They have future concerns just like adults. The scope of them is just different.

I am glad you have such a solid understanding of what love is to you though my friend..that must be a nice feeling :)

[OneSoul]

Children are not near so simple. A lot of people think they are becasue they don't take the time to really communicate with them. They have future concerns just like adults. The scope of them is just different.

I am glad you have such a solid understanding of what love is to you though my friend..that must be a nice feeling :)

We have messed up our children. They are smarter much sooner because of exposure.. But are they happier? We rob them of their innocence.

We rob ourselves of our own innocence.

I am talking True Nature.. not Socially & Parental programmed nature.

We begin by teaching them to WORRY.. Consciously or unconsciously.. They learn from us. Are not born with a Training Manual.

We change their true nature. We need to learn from them, unlearn what we have learnt so that we can go back to our true nature.

Do you even realize that the child does not know how to identify ITSELF by its OWN NAME.

We TEACH the child to RESPOND to the "NAME".

You are "NAME".
Child: "My name is NAME".

That is the beginning of the Ego. The mind.. and the separateness..

Then entire life is lived in building up this ego as the society programs us and wants us to do.

Children smile a lot.. At times for no REASON. It could be as simple as the sun shining, feeling a cooling breeze, a splash of water...
why?

INNOCENCE.

Not bound by Societies parameters & programming of what should make you happy and what should not..

When we go back to that source... That is true happiness.. Does not come from the outside... Not from anyone else... Not even from the "I" or the "ego".

From within... :)

Master says... Innocence & Smile of a Child, Awareness & Responsibility of an Adult :D.

Sign off with this song I remember...

"...The return to your Self, Return to Innocence" - Enigma.

[River]

We TEACH the child to RESPOND to the "NAME".

You are "NAME".
Child: "My name is NAME".

That is the beginning of the Ego. The mind.. and the separateness..

Then entire life is lived in building up this ego as the society programs us and wants us to do.

Much of what you say is true, OneSoul, but you leave out a possibility that I think is crucial. That possibility is the realization and experience of one's unique individual self, along with his/her name (life story, etc.), in terms of distinctness without separation--, individuation and autonomy without being divided from the cosmic wholeness which you call "Oneness".

There is an interesting episode in the intersection of "spirituality" and "psychology" that involves a certain Dr. Freud. An admirer of Freud wrote a letter to Freud, saying "By religious feeling, what I mean—altogether independently of any dogma, any Credo, any organization of the Church, any Holy Scripture, any hope for personal salvation, etc.—the simple and direct fact of a feeling of 'the eternal' (which may very well not be eternal, but simply without perceptible limits, and as if oceanic). This feeling is in truth subjective in nature. It is a contact."

http://www.enotes.com/psychoanalysis-encyclopedia/oceanic-feeling

Freud had no such experience of his own (not consciously, anyway! Repressed?), and tended to associate these sorts of experiences, including the often associated experience of "oneness" -- or of being identical with all of existence -- as a holdover from infancy: infantile, as he called it.

Myself? My life has been deeply influenced by "the oceanic experience" -- the occasional emersion in the certainty that I am not separate, but, if anything, merely distinct. I am James. My Jamesness no more separates me from all of existence than a particular leaf on a tree is separated from the tree, or a drop of water is separated from the ... well, the ocean.

The "spiritual" task we have before us is simply to deepen our sense of non-separation from all of existence -- and all other persons, animals, etc... -- while also deepening our experience and appreciation of our uniqueness, individulaity, and human personhood -- including our name and biography. This is the much less "infantile" approach than an all-dissolving "Oneness".

So I shall end with a greeting and a word of departure in India.: Namaste!

[MonoVCPHG]

Do you even realize that the child does not know how to identify ITSELF by its OWN NAME.

.

Not to sound confrontational, but I'd love to know more of your story my friend. I have a child so I know lots about them. It's easy not to get too existential when you watch them grow. They are not some mythical animal running through feilds with thier hands in the air giggling eternally. They are real human beings with all the emotions biologically given to them. Thier environment and experiences do shape how they deal with those emotions but they would have them regardless. They are people.

[XYZ123]

Not to sound confrontational, but I'd love to know more of your story my friend. I have a child so I know lots about them. It's easy not to get too existential when you watch them grow. They are not some mythical animal running through feilds with thier hands in the air giggling eternally. They are real human beings with all the emotions biologically given to them. Thier environment and experiences do shape how they deal with those emotions but they would have them regardless. They are people.

This. OneSoul, I have a child and have worked with young children half of my life, and have a degree in Developmental psych. While I agree with you that most children DO have love, joy, and peace within them that is not ALL they have. They have anger, fear, frustration, sadness. Or at least the CAPACITY for all these things-both good and bad. A baby is born pure id. S/he has a need (food, to be cleaned, comfort, pain) and will cry until that need is met with no concern for the wants or needs or emotions of the caretakers. As a toddler a child is the center of his/her own universe. Most smile often-but they smile because they are pleased, not necessarily because they LOVE. They care that others are pleased with them because it means they get attention and positive feedback, not because they LOVE this person pleased with them. We see a child smiling and associate that with love and happiness because we know that is what WE feel when WE smile. Children occasionally smile for no other reason than to test facial muscles, no different than making sounds to practice vocalization.

It is us, as adults, who are responsible to take the CAPACITY for love and joy and peace and to bring it out in the child-and to subsequently do our best to counter the CAPACITY for anger and sadness and fear. Relationships are the same way. We all come into them with our own natural and environmentally programmed emotions-both positive and negative. It is through communication, compassion, compromise, and commitment to eachother within those relationships that we grow together to form positive connections rather than negative.

"What I am trying to get to is... When you are FREE to BE.. YOU.. without having to BEND to or CHANGE to or CATER to.. Someone elses boundaries or expecataions.. or behaviors.. Non judgementally completely accepting & accepted."

This (couldn't get the quotes to work) idea is beautiful in theory. But IMO this is not likely to lead to a fulfilling, lifelong, loving relationship. As humans with all our own delicate emotions and our own boundaries and our own expectations (and we ALL have them to some level), we naturally have to bend to those of our loves, just as they have to bend to ours. I'm not talking about changing who you are fundamentally or immersing yourself so far in another you are lost. I'm talking the day-to-day compromises. I'm talking being there for a love when they are hurt, angry, insecure...just as you would hope they would be there for you. Love is not all about butterflies, flowers, candy hearts, and smiles. It is about taking the good with the bad and still loving through it all.

[OneSoul]

JRiver - I think you are as close as it gets on these forums to what I have experienced.

Mono & XYZ - I dont see the value in dissecting the psych analysis you have written. I have done the same for years.. Its the intellectual analytical way... Excuse me if you feel that I am responding to every specific argument point you have made head on.

Proving oneself right & someone else wrong is the greatest kick to the ego... I tend to get into that, but then become aware... each person is different.. each his own.

I am not here to prove my point or outline qualifications & depth of human behavioral analysis nor outline how many psych books, how many children & how many varied people & companies I have worked with across the globe for various Fortune 10, 20 companeies. ( I know I just did that.. lol ...)
I am here to share an experience without using any of the above as a "credibility" or "qualification" statement. Which is why I did not do it earlier.

I am not saying I am better or better off than you or anyone else... We all have our journey, experience & shifts in perception & awareness.

Moving forward...

The mind cannot perceive or fathom what the heart has experienced. (Apples & Oranges)

With no disrespect the only thing I can say is.. Maybe you have yet to experience unconditional bliss devoid of external circumstances that 'please' you. Yet to experience that true nature.. or become aware of it when it does happen. We start with that true nature, lose it & then crave it all our lives in all things, actions, thoughts, emotions, relationships, activities & people.

If you think a so called beautiful scene in nature 'pleases' you because the colors are vivid etc etc.. Then thats true to some level.. But that is later intellectual evaluation of an experience with logical reasoning "Why is this so captivating?"

There are times when you're captured by a sight and there are no thoughts, you're not thinking... Beautiful or Colors or Captivating.. in fact the mind is not at all LABELING the experience. There are no thoughts & labels about IT... No attention or thoughts of the past or future.. of remembering the sight or of having seen something similar.. Of being a human being who enjoys such sights..

If you think children laugh & smile more because they are 'pleased' by things we do.. then I am sorry to say in my humble opinion you've read way too much freudian psychology.. and I doubt if Freud was a happy person.

Maybe that is why children are happier because they carry lesser sense of "ego" "Identity" built upon past & future. They build catles in the air for that moment .. and then let it go in the next moment..

They are not a mythical creature... They are as real as it gets.. If you want to see a glimpse of god.. then after an Enlightened Master they are the closest commonly occuring observable phenomenon.

They bring you INTO the moment, into their play... You forget all worries of past & future no matter how troubling.

For me this did not happen until the last few years.. Its been a journey that cannot happen for anyone until it is time. I've ignored it for years before.. then it was high time.
As the Master says.. "Do not try to explain your experiences. They will not understand"

In words the space can be articulated but its like articulating the taste of asian food to a guy who has had nothing but mashed potatoes all his life & nothing else. (Just an analogy).

Its like explaining love & peace to a terrorist, someone who is one because their life experiences had none.

Like the rush of bungee jumping to someone who has never experienced any such thing..

Its the Archimedes sense of Eureka/ Aha! moment for the heart & the soul.

In terms of caring for someone else.. and supporting them. ...You would do it and anything & everything from the heart out of your own choosing.. own feeling own drive.
Not because someone tells you "you dont do X, so you do not love me".

Those that need to be "proved" to that you love them over & over again do not understand love.

e.g. If someone tells you "I love you", you doubt it. If someone tells you "I hate you" you believe it. Its the nature of the mind to DOUBT. Especially to DOUBT the positive.

Love is not ... You do X (my expectation) = You love me. If you dont do X = You dont love me. ..Vice versa. That is NOT love. That is transaction. You give me X & I will give you Y... Doing X out of your heart is fine.. doing it because of a demand.. / conditional "If you X then you love me" is ... Transactional.

[River]

Discovering or realizing that love is what we are rather than something we need to get is one of the more essential or basic "mystical" experiences, and I think probably a lot of us in this forum have had that bell ring in their lives at some time or another -- and then we forget, the insight was had but the force of it dropped away. This would seem to be a common enough experience.

Perhaps all we need to do is to practice? That is, we may need to practice being love, rather than striving after getting it? Maybe this is how we can overcome this sense that there just isn't enough love?

Maybe questions are more important than answers? Students more important than teachers?

[XYZ123]

I haven't been trying to psychoanalyze you or tear you down or prove you wrong. I have been trying to understand what you are talking about and how you got there. And to do that, I present my feelings and ask you questions. Yet you do not really respond to what is said coherently, nor answer direct questions with direct answers-from anyone. You instead make assumptions that others are somehow trying to prove you wrong, which we are not. You write again about having been somehow enlightened but do not really add anything new or clear up what is being misunderstood. To be funny about it (and honestly not meant as a put down) you write in such a way as I spoke in my 20s when first trying ecstasy. :)

If you have experienced some spiritual awakening, then I'm happy for you. I have looked into the eyes of my child and experienced pure love and know I would love him even if he grew up to put a gun to my head. It is unconditional. However, I don't have to accept everything he does as a condition of my love for him. I help to shape his life and his actions and his reactions so that he is prepared for the hardships and relationships and dangers of the world. This doesn't mean I love him less, but in fact I love him more because I happily shoulder the weight of that responsibility. What you SEEM to be talking about is unconditional love meaning unconditional acceptance. And, as I said before, while I think that is a beautiful notion, I don't see it as leading to a lasting love. If you are only talking about love IN THE MOMENT, love that does not last, I have experienced such things as well where there is no thought behind the peace I feel. The beauty of a sunset, the joy of a cool breeze on a hot day, the smile of a baby, the yapping of a puppy. But that, to me, is not true love. It is simply a passing moment of peace and joy. Appreciated for no other reason than its existence, but not the essence of love. When I love someone I want to hold on to them, to keep them but without possessing them. Holding on to love and possessing it are not one and the same. I do not love my child or my husband only in the moment they make me smile and forget them in the next. I love with all my heart all the time, even when they anger and hurt me. THAT, IMO, is the true measure of love. We may not mean such different things, but I do find you difficult to understand and, so, I can't really tell.

[NotPolly]

I have been seeing someone for the past six months in a sexual relationship with someone who told me from the beginning that he is not monogamous. I chose to ignore this and proceed with the relationship anyway. We had some great, fun times and he is very loving when he's with me. But every so often reminders of his polyamory would come up and I would then attempt to "break up" with him. (Inevitably and eventually I came back.) This weekend I encountered evidence that he is and has been seeing someone else all along, and he's bringing her on a trip with him next month. I am hurt and consumed with jealousy and have now broken up with him again, hopefully for good. I just can't deal with the lifestyle, though I understand why he is in it... it's just not good for me. It's crushingly painful for me and yet I know it will be hard for me to forget him and move on - though I need to. This is where I'm at right now. :mad: :(

[XYZ123]

I'm sorry NotPolly. The poly lifestyle is really not for everyone. And it can be crushing when you love someone who is polyamorous knowing you can never be. But you probably did the best thing for the both of you. He is free to love as he is meant to and so are you. Neither of you would have been happy remaining in a relationship clouded with jealousy and pain. Please try to take comfort in the fact that being unable to accept his poly lifestyle is not wrong on your part if you are truly a mono person. I must commend him though on being honest from the beginning. None of this means he loved you less or you loved him less. Some people are just not compatible. Good luck to you in moving on and finding the love you are searching for.

If you want to share more of your story please introduce yourself in a new thread in the "Introductions" section. You'll get advice and support there, I'm sure.

[Quath]

NotPolly,

What do you ultimately want? It seems like you still want to be with this guy and maybe see yourself going back to him. Are you here to try to understand polyamory better in case that happens? Are you trying to find ways to deal with jealousy or want to understand his mindset better?

XYZ123 is right in that poly is not for everyone. Maybe you are not suited for it. What do you think?

[OneSoul]

Discovering or realizing that love is what we are rather than something we need to get is one of the more essential or basic "mystical" experiences, and I think probably a lot of us in this forum have had that bell ring in their lives at some time or another -- and then we forget, the insight was had but the force of it dropped away. This would seem to be a common enough experience.

Perhaps all we need to do is to practice? That is, we may need to practice being love, rather than striving after getting it? Maybe this is how we can overcome this sense that there just isn't enough love?

Maybe questions are more important than answers? Students more important than teachers?

Ah! I'm glad someone here gets it. For me it started with a Satori :) and I hoped to find it again and then 2.5 years later the journey began...

I guess polyamory is the more extended search for that True Nature.

I haven't been trying to psychoanalyze you or tear you down or prove you wrong.

I know :) Its not the YOU - ME equation. Its the "analysis" v/s "experience". Can you describe love in words? No. It only means something to another person who has experienced it as well.. and can relate to it.. via the word "love". Hence, I fail to give you logical answers to what I cannot describe, and what I describe foes not fall within your or most peoples and even my former framework of understanding.

Its like talking Quantum Physics to an african tribesman (no dis respect intended).


I have been trying to understand what you are talking about and how you got there. And to do that, I present my feelings and ask you questions.

Yet you do not really respond to what is said coherently, nor answer direct questions with direct answers-from anyone. You instead make assumptions that others are somehow trying to prove you wrong, which we are not.

Unfortunately, not all questions have answers in words. In fact, I had tons of questions and still keep having. What's funny is when the experience happens.. the questions just vanish in thin air.. the mind chatter & doubts & questions.. dissolve... All u have is a feeling..

I respect and commend your efforts & commitment in trying to understand. almost anyone would be unable to give that answer to you in words. When you experience it ... the words will fall short when u begin to explain to others.

Edit:
Funny thing is which is why.. when I have questions for the Master (or like most people had for their Masters.. ) he never gives a straight answer.. he makes you realize in an experience that is beyond words.

I've mentally complained at him for this.. But I realize

[OneSoul]

You write again about having been somehow enlightened but do not really add anything new or clear up what is being misunderstood.

Not enlightened, but I've begun to realize what I never did before. The unknown & unmanifested cannot be described. Even if I was to sit in person and explain to you unless you've experienced something close it would be hard. Getting through on the forum... probably tougher.

What I can do is.. make you god damn curious about it that you go looking for it... what you've really been lookin for ... more than everything you think you are looking for :)

JMartin - Care to lend a hand here :) ??

To be funny about it (and honestly not meant as a put down) you write in such a way as I spoke in my 20s when first trying ecstasy. :)

It is. You hit the bullseye. I've never had E, but I figure its like having natural E without the side effects... and you'd probably be unable to describe it to a catholic minister (no disrespect again) or soccer mom or grandma.

If you have experienced some spiritual awakening, then I'm happy for you. I have looked into the eyes of my child and experienced pure love and know I would love him even if he grew up to put a gun to my head. It is unconditional. However, I don't have to accept everything he does as a condition of my love for him. I help to shape his life and his actions and his reactions so that he is prepared for the hardships and relationships and dangers of the world. This doesn't mean I love him less, but in fact I love him more because I happily shoulder the weight of that responsibility. What you SEEM to be talking about is unconditional love meaning unconditional acceptance. And, as I said before, while I think that is a beautiful notion, I don't see it as leading to a lasting love. If you are only talking about love IN THE MOMENT, love that does not last, I have experienced such things as well where there is no thought behind the peace I feel. The beauty of a sunset, the joy of a cool breeze on a hot day, the smile of a baby, the yapping of a puppy.

But that, to me, is not true love. It is simply a passing moment of peace and joy.

// Someday, you will realize otherwise.

Appreciated for no other reason than its existence, but not the essence of love.

// Someday, you will realize otherwise.

When I love someone I want to hold on to them, to keep them but without possessing them. Holding on to love and possessing it are not one and the same. I do not love my child or my husband only in the moment they make me smile and forget them in the next. I love with all my heart all the time, even when they anger and hurt me.

- I never said that you shouldnt love them when they are crying etc.. I gave a comparative 'brings u into the moment of truth' example.

THAT, IMO, is the true measure of love. We may not mean such different things, but I do find you difficult to understand and, so, I can't really tell.

Your context of love is an 'action' & 'verb'. Doing.
The 'love' I talk about is 'your true nature'. There is no doing.

Your love is still defined as action & relationship between 2 separate parties.. the illusion of separation and the notion of 'doing' i.e. taking action.

Sat-Chit-Ananda
Truth-Consciousness-Bliss :)

[OneSoul]

I have been seeing someone for the past six months in a sexual relationship with someone who told me from the beginning that he is not monogamous. I chose to ignore this and proceed with the relationship anyway. We had some great, fun times and he is very loving when he's with me. But every so often reminders of his polyamory would come up and I would then attempt to "break up" with him. (Inevitably and eventually I came back.) This weekend I encountered evidence that he is and has been seeing someone else all along, and he's bringing her on a trip with him next month. I am hurt and consumed with jealousy and have now broken up with him again, hopefully for good. I just can't deal with the lifestyle, though I understand why he is in it... it's just not good for me. It's crushingly painful for me and yet I know it will be hard for me to forget him and move on - though I need to. This is where I'm at right now. :mad: :(

Have you ever been in such an equation before? Probably not.

All I'll say is Poly is hard to come to terms with... It is a reality breaking paradigm.

I have barely begun to see why it exists and is so natural.

It may be NATURAL, but given double digit years of PROGRAMMING.. its NOT EASY to deal with based on our inherent programming & mindset.

All I'd say is, maybe moving on is what you should do. But, what if this is an opportunity to EXPAND your horizons and go through a tough patch of jealousy and insecurity to come out stronger and more secure.

Why do I say this? I have been through similar scenario. Left me very lost... unable to comprehend the conflict within..

Maybe if you were able to get to know the other person and form a TRIANGLE instead of a V, where the other person seems as if they are eating part of your share (jealousy) it might be where they are adding to the connections.

This is probably why I am curious to figure out how to get people to recognize the reality and naturalness of poly and the swing of feelings from poly to mono and back to poly.

Part of the reason I feel is that even in Poly, you can only be connected with one person at a time.. Truely connected.

You could be in bed with 2 women switching back n forth but you'd still connect only one at a time.

Which is why I am guessing a V can be a bit unnerving while a Triangle can become a circle of trust and increased love.

Either ways, good luck. Maybe if you had another add on lover you might not have been burnt.. in fact you might be lost in the ... omg which guy do I like / love really.. I cant see both of them.. or maybe in Poly u can