Couple-hunting in Unicornia

[Hannahfluke]

Well, not ALL polyfamilies as we moved in Lin right after deciding on giving poly a go. But maybe that's the obligatory exception to the rule. :rolleyes: But I have to admit that statistically (going by this forum at least) rushing things is a bad idea.

I wonder if the difference is that you knew Lin for a while before deciding to give poly a go. A lot of people meet the new person and then move them in right away after only knowing them weeks or months. It seems like if you've been friends with someone for years that it will work better than if you barely know them.

[JaneQSmythe]

I wonder if the difference is that you knew Lin for a while before deciding to give poly a go.

Maybe that is it for us as well. Dude has been, for all practical purposes, living with us since he and I "got together" (or a few months before). BUT Dude and MrS were friends for several years before I met Dude. (This is not unusual for us - MrS is much more social than I am, and he's barely social in the first place. :D By the time MrS introduces me to someone it is a good bet that they are going to fit right it - or he never would have invited them home in the first place.)

******

I think that, maybe, moving in together accelerates whatever dynamic is likely to play out - for good or for ill. We have not been a Vee for that long (a year next month) but spending practically every day together means that issues come up that much sooner and have to be dealt with. We have already dealt with many issues that, perhaps, polyfolks who spend less time together will have spread out over many months or years. (Everything from everyday shit, like who does the shopping and what brand of shampoo we use :p, to medium shit, like Dude sleeping with his ex [in my BED! :eek:], to major shit, like me getting pregnant and then losing the baby :()

Maybe some people benefit from the "take it slow" approach...and others may benefit from the "throw it in and see if it works" approach. It probably depends greatly on the people involved. (Maybe our "slowest person" is actually pretty damn FAST...)

Live your life. Find happiness where you are.

JaneQ

[BlackUnicorn]

I feel like you are getting lost and disappearing a little bit into all your concerns for everyone else.

Hullo-o-oooo, where are you?

I don't know. I think I would like most for everyone to be happy, but it seems that all three people can not be happy in this situation at the same time.

Vanilla is questioning whether she wants poly at all, or just open. She wonders on the other hand if it's just Cookie she is incombatible with. She is convinced that things shouldn't be this hard at every possible turn. I've tried to engage her with this forum for comparison's sake - I don't know if she's read anything else than my blog in here. She writes it all out on her personal blog, where her mono friends demonize me and try to convince her that poly/me/Cookie/all three are the problem. She has one beginning-poly friend who is at least a little supportive, but I think there is a consensus that Cookie has to go.

Cookie is at the point where he wants a monoship with a woman he can trust. He is absolutely phobic about catching HIV via Vanilla, in that Vanilla would go down on a woman who was infected, then pass the infection on to me (again via oral sex) and then he would get it and die - we are planning to skip condoms in two weeks or so, once I get my IUD in place. He trusts me but doesn't trust Vanilla. This all blew out in the open today when Vanilla asked via text if it were okay for her to go down on another woman. I said yes - risk of transmission is so low in my POW, especially if you make sure you don't have actually bleeding gums when getting ready for the deed. Cookie, however, doesn't believe the data and is hysterical about the possibility of transmission. That is his right. I also told him that everyone is responsible for their own sexual health, and if he is so worried about STDs, we should continue using condoms. At which point he said that he sees no point in continuing to see me if he must use condoms all the time, since they significantly affect his pleasure.

Vanilla said that since Cookie isn't willing to make any compromises to accommondate us, neither is she willing to use dental dams with her prospective mates. She thinks they would rather not have sex at all if she brought up the dams.

I am at a point where neither one of my partners is willing to make any commitments to increased sexual health. I feel resigned. Perhaps it is better that Cookie and I stop seeing each other. Vanilla I think would prefer open relationships where she wouldn't feel so emotionally threatened. Cookie would prefer a mono woman. I, it seems, am not able to really live up to anyone's expectations.

Sorry for sounding gloomy, but I kinda am.

[BlackUnicorn]

What I find hardest at the moment is that I have two people who really don't know what they want out of me atm. Vanilla at first wanted to find a shared boyfriend. Enter Cookie. Then she found Pistachio - by all standards a really bad find: possessive, depressed, mono and jealous. Fine, let her deal with that. Then she got super-anxious over what a bad fit Chio really was, and wanted to be exclusive with Cookie and me. No, actually, Chio was kinda cool, but Cookie obviously wasn't. No, actually, she isn't that into Chio and Cookie is a real problem. She thinks she wants to quit poly, because she can't do it. But now, out of the blue, she wants a triad with this another couple. Or if not a triad, then some really HAWT sex. Cookie needs to leave, because he's to blame for all the drama, and how tired she's been lately because of all the drama.

I get that she has the right to expect "first come, first served"-policy. I get that feelings change, and that reality is much messier and often scarier than fantasy, because reality involves REAL feelings, and people can't be disposed of like a piece of ill-fitting furniture. I get that she only wants to know that if she can't handle poly, we will quit and be mono or open together.

Cookie. 24/7 when we are together, he is constantly sending me the message that I am not what he prefers, seeks and would want. I'm too fat, I have bad posture, not tight enough, not attractive enough, I have too short a hair, he disapproves of the way I use money, he disapproves of my choice with partners, education, work and dress. He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him. If I didn't have such a firm trust in myself as a worthwhile person and a good catch, I would have ditched him by now, like Vanilla did. I'm really tired but want to continue trying. Am I silly for thinking that one day, if I just try hard enough, he will wake up and decide that he wants me after all? Definitely. It doesn't make it any less hard to just give up on him.

I've spent the entire day asking both of them; "What do you want? What can I do?". They don't know. I think they should by now.

[rory]

What I find hardest at the moment is that I have two people who really don't know what they want out of me atm.
An excellent reason why you should concentrate on what you want and what is good for you.

You know one thing that can in no way be good for you? This:
Cookie. 24/7 when we are together, he is constantly sending me the message that I am not what he prefers, seeks and would want. I'm too fat, I have bad posture, not tight enough, not attractive enough, I have too short a hair, he disapproves of the way I use money, he disapproves of my choice with partners, education, work and dress. He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him. If I didn't have such a firm trust in myself as a worthwhile person and a good catch, I would have ditched him by now, like Vanilla did. I'm really tired but want to continue trying. Am I silly for thinking that one day, if I just try hard enough, he will wake up and decide that he wants me after all? Definitely.
Whatever strength and confidence you have in yourself, this kind of thing is damaging. :( You do know that already, right?

[AnnabelMore]

Woah woah WOAH.

"He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him."

This whole passage is troubling (well, a LOT of this is, such as Cookie insisting that Vanilla use dental dams so that he can go without condoms... how in the hell is that supposed to be fair? that is just some entitled bullshit, I'm sorry) but that last clause... that last bit about only being with you because he can't get someone else...

God, no. Just no. You deserve better than that. You can set whatever guidelines you want in your intimate life, but if you could only have one I feel like it would need to be "my partners must respect me". And that is one of the most disrespectful, callous, and just plain gross things that someone who's supposed to be a partner could say to you. :( :(

Why would you put up with this BU? There are people who would treat you better. Vanilla's indecisiveness is kind of worrying, but she's absolutely right that this is a not-ok pile of drama. No matter how strong your sense of self, it will eventually begin to be worn down by stuff like this and you might not even notice it happening...... :(

[AnnabelMore]

If you can't bring yourself to break up with him for your own sake, then do it for his sake. If he persists in getting positive reinforcement (emotional engagement, sex) for such messed up behavior it will only make it harder for him to wake up to the fact that it's not ok to treat people like this.

[NovemberRain]

Cookie. 24/7 when we are together, he is constantly sending me the message that I am not what he prefers, seeks and would want. I'm too fat, I have bad posture, not tight enough, not attractive enough, I have too short a hair, he disapproves of the way I use money, he disapproves of my choice with partners, education, work and dress. He is literally constantly listing verbally the kind of ideals he has for a woman, naming women he prefers but can't get because he is too afraid to approach them or they wouldn't want him anyway, and stating that the only reason he is with me is that no other woman will ever want him. If I didn't have such a firm trust in myself as a worthwhile person and a good catch, I would have ditched him by now, like Vanilla did. I'm really tired but want to continue trying. Am I silly for thinking that one day, if I just try hard enough, he will wake up and decide that he wants me after all? Definitely. It doesn't make it any less hard to just give up on him.

BU, I feel sad when I read this. I lived with a man who did this. About 20 years ago (whoa! I hadn't realized it was so long). Sometimes, I still twitch. It is a wonderful thing that you are secure in yourself. I caution you, because I was secure in myself too, when I met him. I also thought (I cannot convey in words) that if I just tried hard enough...

I'm curious as to why you think Vanilla ditched him because she has less trust in herself as a worthwhile person? Am I understanding that correctly? Because knowing what I know now, I wouldn't even begin to take up with anyone who did that, and/or at the first sign, they'd be out.


All that aside, I entirely agree with rory, that you have
"An excellent reason why you should concentrate on what you want and what is good for you."

[BlackUnicorn]

Why would you put up with this BU?

I've been thinking a lot today and tonight about how my history of abusive relationships might have sort of prepped me for that. I know how to deal with abuse, I know how to love people who constantly hurt me.

If he persists in getting positive reinforcement (emotional engagement, sex) for such messed up behavior it will only make it harder for him to wake up to the fact that it's not ok to treat people like this.

Yup, I've been thinking I need to try to solve this situation like I solved it the last time: downsize, distance and deinvest. Atm the positives of this relationship are not outweighing the negatives.

I'm curious as to why you think Vanilla ditched him because she has less trust in herself as a worthwhile person? Am I understanding that correctly? Because knowing what I know now, I wouldn't even begin to take up with anyone who did that, and/or at the first sign, they'd be out.

Yeah, I guess she's the assertive one after all - despite having low self-esteem at times, she can at least recognize BS when she hears it. She thinks her self-esteem is good enough for her to realize that she doesn't have to listen to BS and unfair criticism, so maybe it's really me who has the low self-esteem issue here :(.

I think I need to work on drawing personal limits for what is acceptable behaviour towards me and what is not, and stop reinforcing the negative behaviours :eek:.

[NovemberRain]

I think I need to work on drawing personal limits for what is acceptable behaviour towards me and what is not, and stop reinforcing the negative behaviours :eek:.

Hurray! I think so too. :D I think that would be really a nurturing thing to do for yourself.

[rory]

I've been thinking a lot today and tonight about how my history of abusive relationships might have sort of prepped me for that. I know how to deal with abuse, I know how to love people who constantly hurt me.

Oh yeah, abuse preps for more abuse, that's for sure. But knowing how to love somebody despite them constantly hurting and harming you is not really a good thing. It may not be a bad thing either, but that requires very good boundaries. Ones that don't allow the harming. You can love from a distance and sometimes that's the only healthy way.

For me abuse isn't something that can be outweighed with anything. I, for myself, have decided I will never ever put up with it now that I have a choice. Nobody deserves abuse, and nothing makes it justified (not even when there are two abusive people together, because two wrongs don't make a right). You can understand an abuser, and I do think it can be a good thing (allowing to let go of anger/resentment), but it is only a good thing if the understanding doesn't convince you that the abuse can continue. You're not doing anybody any favours with that, not even the abusive person.

I'm concerned for you and I wish you well. Take care of yourself.

[Polywaw]

Oh yeah, abuse preps for more abuse, that's for sure. But knowing how to love somebody despite them constantly hurting and harming you is not really a good thing. It may not be a bad thing either, but that requires very good boundaries. Ones that don't allow the harming. You can love from a distance and sometimes that's the only healthy way.

I agree about abusive relationships. I'd like to point out that abusive people usually hold a lot of anger against themselves and others that runs pretty deep, and it is possible to get over this (possible, not common).

I've also noticed with some people in my life, they go through some dark times and get borderline abusive, if their partner remains compassionate and loving, it's possible to pull them through. More often than not, however, the abused believes they can fix the abuser when it's more than just a dark spell over the abuser. Sometimes people just... aren't meant to team up together.

I suppose it was said best to me in this manner: Love brings out the best and worst in us. It's really easy to hate and mistreat the people you love when things go downhill. At that point, I'm not sure it's salvageable.

I'm really happy to see someone going through it having a sensible head on their shoulders. Yup, I've been thinking I need to try to solve this situation like I solved it the last time: downsize, distance and deinvest. Atm the positives of this relationship are not outweighing the negatives.

Good luck, BU.

[nycindie]

I have a friend who was in a very abusive relationship for over ten years. He was extremely possessive and dictatorial toward her, and yes, he would even beat her with an extension cord. She told me of a time when she had to run out of her apartment in bare feet and her nightgown to get away from him, in the middle of downtown Manhattan. He once trashed her apartment and carved the word "Betrayal" into her antique wardrobe when she had gone on a trip out of the country and he imagined some affair she wasn't having.

Today they are good friends. In fact, he introduced her to her current husband, a good man to whom she is happily married. Her ex's health is declining and she will sometimes do things to help him out. They are all past the abuse, and any possible bitterness. I had a hard time with her forgiveness of him; I was angry that she forgave him, because I couldn't. She is at peace with all of it.

BUT, she couldn't have gotten to that point if she had stayed with him and tried to work it out or teach him love and humility while under his strap and enduring the pain. She HAD TO end it, she HAD TO leave him, she HAD TO confront him with the reality of what he'd done to hurt her. She also had to look at why she put up with all that. She needed distance to do that -- so she moved to another hemisphere, actually -- and learned how to love herself better. Then she found love in that country with someone else for a time. This was a period of personal growth for her. She did not come back to the states until she knew he couldn't and wouldn't hurt her anymore. I think there was about five years of no contact between them before she could see him again and he made amends. That was huge because he'd never acknowledged that he was abusive before that. And then he became seriously ill and she forgave him. Not only because she had never stopped loving him, but also because she now had a strong sense of who she was, and she wasn't someone who put up with abuse anymore. So she had stepped through that door to the other side.

So, my point is, that you do no one any good to tolerate abuse, but it is possible to enlighten other people by taking care of yourself. However, you don't do it for him or anyone else -- Cookie may never wake up to see the harm he is doing to you. YOU have to wake up and put yourself in a truly safe place, without all the wistfulness and wishing things were better than they are.

[AnnabelMore]

I think I need to work on drawing personal limits for what is acceptable behaviour towards me and what is not, and stop reinforcing the negative behaviours :eek:.

You can do it!!

[BlackUnicorn]

A brief update before our trip:

We communicated with Cookie. I communicated what I want and expect of him and he said that he wants that also. Hooray for communication! He was/is worried that he is expendable since I already have Vanilla and that he should try to find a primary also and not rely exclusively on me, but doesn't believe there is a better match out there for him. And he's mainly scared of being left alone, if/when I realize I don't need him anymore.

Vanilla is much relieved now that she feels her problem is not with poly but with this particular metamour.

[SNeacail]

We communicated with Cookie. I communicated what I want and expect of him and he said that he wants that also. Hooray for communication! He was/is worried that he is expendable since I already have Vanilla and that he should try to find a primary also and not rely exclusively on me, but doesn't believe there is a better match out there for him. And he's mainly scared of being left alone, if/when I realize I don't need him anymore.

BE CAREFUL!!!!! Listen to Vanilla when she is getting bad vibes about Cookie. Don't let yourself get caught up in the abuse because he is currently having a little pity party.

[nycindie]

he... doesn't believe there is a better match out there for him. And he's mainly scared of being left alone...
Lucky you. :rolleyes:

[Bucephalus1965]

They say the road to hell is paved with good intentions...

Similarly, near as I can tell, the road to & through poly is rarely smooth...there's lots of speed bumps, potholes and detours...
.

LOL so is monogamy.. sorry the ball was in the air I just had to swat at it.

[BlackUnicorn]

We're engaged! Yay for me, yay for us, yay for Vanilla!

My mum warned me that often when people make a big commitment to each other, like getting engaged, married, buying property or deciding to try for kids, the relationships might experience some turbulent times, because of all the fears and insecurities around making such a big, visible commitment. Vanilla's been really down lately because of what she sees as our waning sex life. I see that the problem lately has been more of recurrent infections she's had, which have also significantly altrered her sexual response. I'm trying to learn how to touch her all over again and I'm fumbling.

To fight back Lesbian Bed Death, we've settled down three nights a week for sex, and marked them on our calendar (that wall calendar of ours is getting a lot of action these days!). Orgasms have a really significant effect on Vanilla's mood, in that she gets very depressed without regular sex (masturbation doesn't cut it, but only adds to the frustration). Also, we've started to read Sexual Intimacy for Women self-help book.

[BlackUnicorn]

I had a miscarriage. A really minor one, the thing wasn't even a month old, but I'm feeling sad nevertheless. Sad and relieved at the same time. Like I didn't even know it was there until it was already gone, and I'm mourning for something that I didn't even know I'd miss.

Cookie's reaction: "Wow, you just saved me 40,000 on alimony. That's a lot of money, you know".

He so needs to go.

[Bucephalus1965]

I am so sorry for you loss.

[nycindie]

Oh dear. I'm so sorry, BU. Please take care of yourself. Oh, and yes, give Cookie the boot. He doesn't deserve you.

[trescool]

Thank you for sharing your stories with us. Omg Cookie needs to go! That is the height of being an asshole!!! I'm so sorry for your loss.

I wish you the best for your upcoming marriage. :). Engagements are very exciting. :)

I wanted to share some random things cuz I could relate so much.... First with the flailing sex drive, Omg, happens to me too. I find I do need that "non goal oriented touching" at those times because I still deeply crave love, affection, and sensuality even when bladder infections or what not are interfering wit my sex drive. Also, when I upped my anxiety medicine I totally went through the lowered sex drive thing, although it's also strongly related to my emotions for me-- if something is bothering me at the back of my mind, I can't orgasm for the life of me!

Anyway, best wishes wih your engagement!

[BlackUnicorn]

Re-cap since last post

So, I pretty much dumbed Cookie's ass. However, he is so sad and lonely and forlorn that I kinda feel humanitarian concern for him. Which led into cuddling and sex, although I had pretty much sworn him off at that point :(.

Meanwhile, Vanilla has fallen head over heels with a New Guy. And it's tearing me apart. I feel numb and nauseated and destroyed.

Why such an extreme reaction to something that should be a positive thing? After all, as a recovering NRE monster, what's good for the goose should be good for the gander, right? (Or in this case, what's good for the gander is good for the other gander, too.)

This situation triggers every single uncertain chord in my body. I'm deathly afraid of being found wanting in comparison to this dude. Why is this such a trigger for me? Well, you guessed it! He's a dom and they are giddy with BDSM happiness, him and Vanilla.

I used to feel like I was in a relationship. Now I feel like I have a few loving friends but no relationship to speak off. I offered to let Vanilla go and let her explore her developing relationship without an insanely jealous and dysfunctionally co-dependent piece of emotional wreckage weighing her down. But she doesn't want to take a break from us.

The bottom line is that I don't feel like I can trust her to love and care for me and value me and not be engulfed by this new relationship, and I'm trying to protect myself from serious future pain by removing myself from the game before it's even started. I know that's unreasonable as all hell, but deep-down I'm convinced no one can ever possibly want to be with me for real if they have a choice. Hence the freak-out.

What I'm doing now?

I got an emergency appointment with a psychologist today, 75 mins during which I want to pour out every single moment I've ever felt rejected starting at preschool. Poor psych lady, I don't envy her. I just want to cry till my heart dries out, to feel anything but utterly terrified and numb and destroyed and dissociated.

I still think it would be better for me and Vanilla to take a break until I can get my shit straight, but she doesn't want to tell anybody that our relationship is on the rocks. She doesn't want to hear those "But I told you so!" snickers from her friends.

She has done nothing to cause or deserve this, except get involved with a a mental case like me. All those thoughts and experiences I've avoided and surpressed for years are coming to haunt with a vengeance it seems. Today we plan to have a quiet night in eating and cuddling and not discussing our relationship status or my insecurities for another night. I hope I feel more hopeful after my visit to the head doctor.

[Phy]

I still think it would be better for me and Vanilla to take a break until I can get my shit straight, but she doesn't want to tell anybody that our relationship is on the rocks. She doesn't want to hear those "But I told you so!" snickers from her friends.

She has done nothing to cause or deserve this, except get involved with a a mental case like me.

I am sorry that you are in a bad place right now. But what crossed my mind reading this was mainly the question: For what reason do you want to take a break for yourself and for what reason for Vanilla?

Because you shouldn't dictate what she should want and in some lines it sounded like you concentrate on her being the victim of your quirks and issues right now and therefore say that you want a break for her sake. But she clearly said she doesn't want that. So don't make decisions on her account whatever her reasons may be.

It would be a different story if you feel that you personally need a break because you don't want to be confronted with her new relationship and feel unable to sort things out while being in your current situation and relationship with her. And that's valid. But don't confuse the reasons why you need/want a break. This could lead to further confusion.

I hope that the session with your therapist will help and you can calm down a bit and find some way to handle this. Feeling for you.

[BlackUnicorn]

It's def all me. She read this and emphasized again that her being ashamed to admit to her friends that something's wrong is the least part of it. She doesn't want to take a break because she really, really, wants to be with me, even if I'm a super-crap partner right now.

I need to start figuring out what I feel and need and to separate it from what I think others feel and need, at the tender age of 23 :eek: Well, no drama, no growth; no growth, no poly, right :confused:?

[nycindie]

Oh dear. I know this will make me sound like a condescending old fart, but I mean this sincerely: I was a total mess at 23. I think I gave up smiling for two years and snapped at anyone who asked me why I was so miserable. You are still young, and will grow out of it. That's what our 20s are for, to fall apart, discover who we really are, and then pick up the pieces again and put ourselves back together as who we want to be. It sucks sometimes. It's painful. It's also exhilarating at times. That is life. You are right on target, m'dear. Just try to always find the nugget of self-love in all the pain. Hold onto whatever goodness you can see in yourself and try not to indulge in drama. You're very smart, and you'll come through.

[BlackUnicorn]

Wednesday, at the therapist

The therapist was really cool. I felt I could really talk to her about all the stuff that's happened to me well, since preschool. She said upfront that she feels relationships that are very young suffer from being open, because there is no base level of trust and security, but respected my decision to continue on this path.

We agreed that our agenda for our meetings would be 1) to steady things out with the relationship crisis and 2) to start addressing my feelings of inferiority, wrongness and undesirability. I meet her again this Thu.

Friday, back on the ranch

I was out of town on a business trip and had just caught the train home when Cookie texts me and tells he wants to come by. We had talked about this before and I said that I'm not home but that he should call Vanilla to see if she's home. Turns out, she was having phone sex with Chip, the new guy, and thus couldn't answer her phone. Cookie makes a bad decision of the day number 1 and comes by anyway. Vanilla doesn't know how to tell him off and texts me, very pissed off, that I should come quickly to deal with him. Surprisingly, the train cannot really be hastened, but I do manage to get there and we have a relaxing cuddle time with Cookie before I need to start vacuuming.

While we are cuddling, Vanilla takes a call from Chip. They talk and Vanilla is very nearly crying and I get the jist of it even though I'm only listening to half of the conversation. Chip is telling Vanilla of for being late all the time. Vanilla is agreeing and gushing about "how no one has ever been so frank and demanding with her and expected her to live up to her own expectations and how she needed this so much and is so thankful yadda yadda". I resent Vanilla's mum telling her off and am not very happy about this so-called-dom-of-hers giving her distant life coaching either. I try to make her feel better and tell her that I believe in liberty in all things, relationships included, and have always felt she's on adult who needs to make her own decisions and just because I don't interfere with her choices doens't mean I don't care. More gushing over Chip's greatness and uniqueness ensues.

I've gathered so much anger and hurt that I walk over to her in the other room, leaving Cookie playing Chat Roulette :rolleyes:, and tell her how I frankly feel that what was special and unique about our relationships has gone, since she now has someone else who is special and unique to her. She disagrees. Major fighting and crying ensues (Cookie is very happy with his chat roulette and totally oblivious to all this going on).

Vanilla asks me to get rid of Cookie, and I go. In a moment of EXTREMELY BAD DECISIONS (number three for the night, number two was starting the fight in the first place), I decide to have GET EVEN SEX with Cookie. Unsurprisingly, this leads into major hurt feelings on Vanilla's side and more fighting after Cookie's gone. We manage to move on to make-up-sex and all's well that ends well, right? WRONG.

[BlackUnicorn]

Saturday, bad decisions galore continues

I have a training to go to in the morning but can't manage to get up in time, due to having fought and cried and fucked and generally having been up too late. Vanilla has made a study date with Chip. She is feeling very achy and asks me if it's okay that Chip come over to our place, since I'm leaving for my training anyway. Um, okay. I don't really want to but I guess it's okay since I will be sleeping for a couple more hours in the bedroom anyway and thus don't have to see him till I'm out of the door. I make sure once again that I wish to catch couple hours worth of more sleep, and she ensures me that it will be no problem.

Chip, the Jerk from Nether Regions of Hell, emerges. Within one minute of having entered our premises, he starts gawking and shouting (yes, shouting so that I can hear even when I'm behind a closed door) on how he really disapproves of feminism (after having seen the volume "Feminist Research" on the table) and how all Women's Studies majors he's ever met have been man-haters. He launches onto a long diatribe against the Crimes of Feminism and the Natural Difference Between Men and Women, and as his kind is wont, literally lectures, ignoring comments and questions from his faithful audience, my darling common-law wife Vanilla. Vanilla is probably getting off from all his high-and-mightiness (yes, I'm being super-petty), but I can't sleep no more and decide what the hell, falling asleep at the training beats staying awake and listening to this moron.

I get up, Vanilla goes all: Ohnowhyareyouupweren'tyousupposedtosleep?, I go all: Yeahfuckthatevenadeafpersoncouldn'tsleepinhere, she goes all: Ohnodoyouwantustogo, I go all: FuckthatI'mgoing. Chip is launging on our sofa and snickering at me behind my back. I go to training actively comtemplating murder.

While at the training, which lasts all day, I text Vanilla five times. No answer. Not even when I write to her that I would really appreciate one, even something like "Cool :)". At 4 pm she texts me "I didn't want to text while I had company, am now going to see ma". I feel something inside me break. Yeah, she's too busy to text because she's fucking this God's Gift to Womankind. I tell that I'm moving back to my Mum's until since I can't sleep and acutely want to hit somebody.

[BlackUnicorn]

Sunday - too many pills

So my decision to move out since I'm starting to hate myself and the way I act around the person I love the most in the world didn't last. I came by to get some of my stuff tonight and find Vanilla completely incoherent after popping too many painkillers. Yay. So I'm not moving out it seems.

[nycindie]

I came by to get some of my stuff tonight and find Vanilla completely incoherent after popping too many painkillers. Yay. So I'm not moving out it seems.You can be there for her AND be there for yourself. Don't let her manipulate you with her self-destructive drama. Get her the help she needs by calling an ambulance or taking her to an emergency room, whatever, AND then move out. You aren't doing her any favors by staying. Save yourself, too.

[BrigidsDaughter]

I normally wouldn't say this, but you two need to stop; take a step back from ALL other relationships - I know this will be hard on Vanilla since she is looking for something BDSM wise that you cannot provide - but you are both suffering greatly. If Vanilla were a man, everyone would be advising him to take a step back to comfort his wife after her miscarriage, that all of his partners would understand, if they truly love him. So I will say that and more; it was totally disrespectful for Chip to laugh at your fight, to be so disrespectful in your house, and since Vanilla considers him Dominant, it is your job to make sure that people who come into your house understand that kind of behavior is NOT to be tolerated. You were being petty by having sex with Cookie - who you just said a few posts back - you kicked to the curb. Why are you letting him back into your life in that way? It seems to me that issues surrounding him were the cause of many of your fights with Vanilla in the first place.

Please, take care of yourself and Vanilla before something more serious than taking too many pain pills occurs.

[Vanilla]

I got quite pissed off for the constant feeling of "I wish they knew how I feel about that" and "that's definately NOT how I see things", so BU said it would be okay for me to join the discussion!

I am not suicidal or self-destructive. When BU said she was coming to take her stuff for moving to her mom, I just felt I couldn't handle it and felt a great need to get myself somehow numb. I took four painkillers, which is not much, but got my head a bit messed up. Whatever happens, I do not plan to take more. But even the idea of her moving away hurts more than knives in my lungs. I feel like she's giving up with the situation and just running away instead of trying to fix things, while I would do anything to make things better. Of course if she really decides to leave, I don't feel like I'd have the right to stop her.

Chip respects our relationship and doesn't want anyone to get hurt or come between me and BU. BU just doesn't know him at all and so she misunderstands him. He didn't shout, he just speaks with a loud voice all the time. I really have to turn my phone's volume down when I speak with him. :D He really approves equality, and just talked about how he can't understand how some feminists hate men - even I don't concider hate as equality. I think BU was already so upset she saw everything he said as bad, bad, bad. Chip is worried about our situation and is frequently asking me if BU is okay and how could we make her feel better or at least not worse.

I've tried to tell BU that if she needs, I'll quit seeing Chip and take time for just the two of us or anything to make her feel better, but she doesn't want me to. She's said that she would then just be afraid of every single person I talk with and also feel too bad about limiting me. I'm quite insecure and confused about the situation and don't know would it still be better for me to stop seeing him whatever she says, but I just don't know what the hell should I do. She insists that I should continue seeing him and I really wish I could, but also I would gladly remove a limb of mine if she needed me to. I just don't know what would be the best thing to do, and I feel like she doesn't know either.

So, as BU asked, we have now agreed that I will not talk about Chip to her, not even mention his name, I will not answer his calls or text messages while I'm with her, I will not ask him here, I'll meet him just when BU's at work or has something else to do and I'll answer her calls and messages at least shortly while I'm with him. It's difficult to me with all this NRE, but I'll do anything to support her and make her feel better.

And by the way, I, as many other people I know, find it really disrespective to keep chatting on phone or with text messages while being with someone else. If I spend time with someone, I usually keep my phone quiet and focus on the person I'm with and so respect the time he/she has given to be with me, like on Saturday my mom, whom I see less than once a month because of the distance. I do understand different situations and crisis, but if BU texts me constantly whether it is crisis or not, how am I supposed to know, when she really, really needs me to answer, if she doesn't let me know like "hey I'm falling apart and need you right know"? But then I will tell the person I'm with that we're having a crisis and I'll have to focus on that, and could we please meet some better time again when I'm not just wasting anyone's time by being there just partly.

Anyway, just wanted to say that there are two versions of every story and mine is that there's nothing I wouldn't do for the love of my life.

I guess I'll have to think about starting my own blog instead of conquering hers... :o

[BlackUnicorn]

Ugh, maybe I should give space to others for comments before I chime in? Anyways, I named her Vanilla in part because I LOVE vanilla ice-cream. Like seriously, best ice-cream there is. And the only perfume I've ever been able to use was a vanilla perfume.

For now we've agreed to keep Chip away from my life for as long as needed, because I tend to fly into murderous rages with the mention of his name. We also have both made appointments with our therapists and I hope to bring Vanilla along to my therapy session on Thu. Also, we've agreed to establish a sleeping schedule, i.e. no relationship talk after 11 pm, and for me to set down some ground rules with Cookie (so he knows what's going on and how he can avoid things getting worse through his actions).

Also, we continue working through relationship self-help books, going to dates for just the two of us outside the house, and paying attention to our sex life (trying to get some action at least three times a week).

Cookie

I feel very torn about him and also somewhat addicted. When I made the WORST DECISION OF THE YEAR and had sex with him in the middle of relationship crisis and Vanilla in the next room, I felt very unloved and undesired. I had just accidentally seen a lengthy porn short-story Vanilla was writing to Chip, and their sex-chat on FB. Did I mention we also agreed that I never, ever use her computer again, even if I have to do something which takes 2 minutes and my computer is buried under paperwork? I don't want to be exposed to their hot crazy lurve, especially when I feel I lack some loving myself.

[rory]

I am glad you came here, too, Vanilla, since it is good to get both of your takes from the situation.

I wonder, do either of you see the ways in which both of you are acting passive-agressive? And the co-dependence you both are contributing to? Does it feel loving to you? What about the constant drama, is that what you really want in life?

It feels to me that both of you have quite an unconstructive approach to any relationship problem. It's always somebody's fault. Sometimes there's a disproportionate amount of blame directed towards oneself. Sometimes towards the partner. Sometimes the fault is seen to be fully in the metamour. It may or may not be deserved, mind you. But it's not the most relevant question. Really, it seems to me that you, together, create quite a co-dependent relationship dynamic. Even without other partners and NRE and stuffs to complicate things, I feel you'd need some work on communication, confidence, self-love, and boundaries.

I actually agree with BrigidsDaughter, while I normally wouldn't say this, I do think it might be best to close things up. To build a really strong, stable foundation for the two of you. I mean, it seems to me that that is the first priority for the two of you? I do thing poly is adding a lot of drama, and it looks like you are moving to more and more unstable ground all the time.

Psychologist, the best idea in a long time.

Moving out, maybe not the worst idea. I do agree with Vanilla that it is sort of running away from the issues. Similarly is the suggestion of becoming (possibly temporarily) monogamous. However, I feel that somehow you need to get to a more calm and stable place, whether together or separately, if you don't wish things to continue as they have been.

[BlackUnicorn]

Co-dependence is def our poison. We don't even know how to fight properly. I mean, prior to Cookie/Chip situation, our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o.

Atm I'm fine with a strict DADT policy. My fantasy wishful thinking scenario would be for Vanilla to run away with Chip and have as much fun and romance as she wants, and them maybe come autumn she would be over her NRE enough to start paying attention to me again in a way I would notice and appreciate. I don't want to now tell her to ditch Chip and then have this thrown to my face 20 years from now and having to hear then that I broke her up with the (second) love of her life.

And were I to be freed of Chip, I would have to let Cookie go too, and I have a severe case of "sad-puppy-must-save" whenever I think of him :(.

[nycindie]

But even the idea of her moving away hurts more than knives in my lungs. I feel like she's giving up with the situation and just running away instead of trying to fix things, while I would do anything to make things better.
I am going to be very blunt.

Vanilla -- to me, it looks like BU leaving would fix things. You two seem pretty toxic to each other. I recall the posts BU used to write. She was an impressively insightful, vivacious young woman who was full of life and ready to meet it head-on. Since you and she got together, she has doubted herself, felt like a super fucked up person, and let people walk all over her, including you. She has put herself in bad situations with people who treat her like crap. Her self-esteem has spiraled downward. Something stinks here. I think a separation would help. Sometimes people can love each other but still be no good for each other. It seems that you both need to do some growing up, while taking time apart. That's how I see it.

[BlackUnicorn]

I think peculiarities of internet blogging are at least in partly responsible for my changed public image :eek:. When I started out, I was single, unemployed and very sporadically educated. I had a lot of time to comment on every post out there at length.

Nowadays I'm a super-busy worker bee and also trying to wrap up school. When I log on, it's usually just to bitch and moan about my current relationship status, at times when thinking about home life is interfering with work so much that I need to get it out of my system that I deem it more productive in the long term to spend 10 mins of working day posting instead of not posting and spending 8 hrs well, bitching and moaning inwardly.

So when things are unicorns and rainbows and rose petals raining down, I don't post. Which they 90 % of the time are.

[rory]

Co-dependence is def our poison. We don't even know how to fight properly. I mean, prior to Cookie/Chip situation, our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o.

The first statement seems like the perfect non-accusatory communication. The second is where the problem comes in. Falling into a self-hate spiral any time partner brings something up is just unhealthy for all involved. And it is not taking responsibility of your actions, nor is it having good boundaries. Since if partner says "I feel bad when you do x" there are multiple alternatives.

A, you may not be doing anything wrong (you need boundaries to evaluate that). If you feel like that is the case you need to say that. If your partner agrees, they have options of either agreeing to work on their own shit (e.g. overreacting) or to ask you to not do x for the time being. Note, being passive-aggressive and trying to guilt you into not doing x anymore isn't in the healthy options of action.

B, if you are doing something wrong (such as breaking an agreement) you need to apologise and then either start working on your shit (i.e. not do x anymore) or negotiate whether doing x might be acceptable behaviour. Note that self-hate is not the appropriate reaction here either. Not only is it extremely unproductive, it also sends the signal "do not ever bring up anything I do that makes you feel bad, unless you want to spend endless time and energy to make me feel better about myself when in actuality I should be the one supporting you since I did something to hurt you". Not facilitating good communication.

Neither is it good to fight and treat each other as adversaries (like, say, having revenge sex, seriously?). Obviously fights/conflicts sometimes happen, but you should act lovingly even when disagreeing. It doesn't seem this is happening, rather it seems that the response to feeling hurt is to hurt back. You might want to spend time thinking about what it is that triggers that kind of an extreme defense mechanism. Somebody trying to guilt trip you (or you perceiving somebody doing that whether they are or not)?

Lastly, I'd like to say something about the lack of partner-selection-skills you both seem to have going. While you have co-dependence going with each other due to lack of boundaries, that is not as worrying as the men in your lives. They do sound like total assholes, and it is telling of worrying things that you will put up with that. It certainly won't help to build self-esteem.

[BlackUnicorn]

We just got off from a meeting with a crisis centre support worker. That was really beneficial, since we hadn't seen anyone as a couple yet. I was really surprised that Vanilla resents me blowing up her phone daily with 2481204 text messages, especially when she is with someone else. Since I'm a supertexter and have been since the start of our relationship, it had never occurred to me it that bothered her, because I somehow figured she would say something if it did :confused:. Also, it was news to me that my rapidly cycling mood swings and impulsivity frighten her.

We agreed to not do anything drastic before Vanilla has her appointment on Wed with her therapist, where they will talk about the possibility of admission to a day hospital. It would be really good at this point, because there she must eat every day and she can't passively self-harm through fasting or some other method. Also, I will take her painkillers away for safekeeping. Our home is still full of liquids for consumption, but they sell that stuff at the corner pub, so really no prevention possible there.

We are welcome to stop by at the crisis centre again after our respective appointments, and I think it's good until we can secure a couple's therapist via the Student Health Society, which is easier on the wallet than a private counsellour.

[BlackUnicorn]

Well, not for everyone. Personally, I greatly dislike cats. I don't go all ooey-gooey when I see a picture of a kitten in a magazine. I don't want to cuddle other people's cats. I don't want to have cats. Yet, we have two cats, and I was actively involved in the process of procuring cat number 2. Why?

Frankly, it was a choice of either a) working through my hatred of cats in order to be with the woman I love or b) deciding irrational hatred towards those furry critters was not worth losing the woman I love (who also LURVES her cats).

Don't get me wrong: our cats have been the source of acute misery in my life. They have harmed me in very tangible, concrete ways. Vanilla will never understand why I don't like them and why I think they stand in the way of me living my life to the fullest. Whenever my hatred of cats has flared after some cat-related wrong that has been inflected on me, I have asked for more compromises and reassurances to let me know that I am valued too, and my desire to live a life independent of those puffy rodents is respected to a reasonable degree.

When I requested for a study where I can store my stuff free of feline influence and sequester myself whenever I feel like I can take NO MORE CATS, I was given one. I haven't needed that space all that much. Whenever cats do maddening thing x, I go through the following mental steps: (1) I do have rights when it comes to cats. People should go first. If a cat is bothering my meal, it needs to go the bathroom and wait until the meal is over. (2) They are first and foremost Vanilla's cats. When cats break/make a mess of/complicate things, it's Vanilla's job to take care of it. I can do certain things for the cats, but I am not doing them because they are my responsibility, but out of kindness towards my spouse. (3) When cats occasionally manage to make a mess of my stuff, I remind myself that I have chosen this, fully aware that cats occasionally infuriate me. They are not be blamed for eating a very enticing piece of paper that I have left out in the open, nevermind how important that slip of paper subjectively was to me. So it's not alright to be angry at the cats but to change my own behaviour to fit the new situation.

I have trouble asking for the space I need away from Chip. I think I've gotten most of the things I need: no texting/talking with Chip when I am together with Vanilla, no Chip in my immediate vicinity, no need to interact with Chip. I also requested for Vanilla not to be so badly beaten up after every time she sees Chip that it interferes with our cuddling. Vanilla thinks I have a way too negative preconceived image of Chip and that I am not giving him a chance, but I don't really want to. He's Vanilla's cat - let her deal with him.

[Vanilla]

But when you're in a good mood, you DO cuddle our cats and sometimes even seem to enjoy it. That gives me some kind of hope :D

It doesn't bother me if you text me 4664838785 times per day, I just hadn't realized it bothers you if I don't always answer.

Rory, I don't think it's unhealthy self-hate, but more like "I didn't realize my behaviour hurts you and I feel sorry for that." I think BU's "our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o." was really overestimated example, or at least that's not how I feel our disagreements usually are. But I think it's normal to feel bad when you realize you've hurt someone you love. This is where people mostly seem to disagree with me; I find it okay to apologise even when I have done something wrong accidentally or without knowing it's not right. Like, I do apologise if I accidentally drop my friend's glass and break it or something like that. People mostly seem to think you can apologise only something you have done consciously, and I just find it weird.

I find it confusing how many of you seem to have really clear opinions about how things are and what would be the best thing for us to do, like, you two really need to move away from each other and you absolutely have to stop seeing other people and I am definately bad to BU in every possible way and so on. I mean, good advice is always welcome, but how could anyone else know for sure, what's best for us? My friends whom I know irl and most of them know BU too, are amazingly supportive and telling us there's nothing we couldn't fix, but have you concidered about doing this or could it be good for you to do that? (except Rory, I really appreciate your way of expressing your opinions and suggestions in this way, thank you! It makes me feel sooooo much easier to think about stuff instead of just going furious. :p)

I'm sorry, I just become really defensive when anyone tries to tell me straigtly what to do and you HAVE to do like this and that and act like someone could know better for sure. But, of course I can be wrong too. Anyway, I really find it the worst idea ever for BU to move away, 'cause I'm absolutely sure we can fix things easier ways and too radical reactions would just make things worse. Ans BU's mom really, really hates me for unknown reasons and is ashamed of her daughter living with another woman, so if BU now moves there feeling confused and messed up, I'm pretty sure her mom would try her best to manipulate against us, which she tries to do even when things are okay. I can't see that being anyhow helpful with our situation.

[BrigidsDaughter]

But when you're in a good mood, you DO cuddle our cats and sometimes even seem to enjoy it. That gives me some kind of hope :D

It doesn't bother me if you text me 4664838785 times per day, I just hadn't realized it bothers you if I don't always answer.

Rory, I don't think it's unhealthy self-hate, but more like "I didn't realize my behaviour hurts you and I feel sorry for that." I think BU's "our disagreements went like this: "I feel bad when you do x". "OMG, you are so right, I'm a horrible person for doing x". Lots of crying and embracing ensues 0_o." was really overestimated example, or at least that's not how I feel our disagreements usually are. But I think it's normal to feel bad when you realize you've hurt someone you love. This is where people mostly seem to disagree with me; I find it okay to apologise even when I have done something wrong accidentally or without knowing it's not right. Like, I do apologise if I accidentally drop my friend's glass and break it or something like that. People mostly seem to think you can apologise only something you have done consciously, and I just find it weird.

I find it confusing how many of you seem to have really clear opinions about how things are and what would be the best thing for us to do, like, you two really need to move away from each other and you absolutely have to stop seeing other people and I am definately bad to BU in every possible way and so on. I mean, good advice is always welcome, but how could anyone else know for sure, what's best for us? My friends whom I know irl and most of them know BU too, are amazingly supportive and telling us there's nothing we couldn't fix, but have you concidered about doing this or could it be good for you to do that? (except Rory, I really appreciate your way of expressing your opinions and suggestions in this way, thank you! It makes me feel sooooo much easier to think about stuff instead of just going furious. :p)

I'm sorry, I just become really defensive when anyone tries to tell me straigtly what to do and you HAVE to do like this and that and act like someone could know better for sure. But, of course I can be wrong too. Anyway, I really find it the worst idea ever for BU to move away, 'cause I'm absolutely sure we can fix things easier ways and too radical reactions would just make things worse. Ans BU's mom really, really hates me for unknown reasons and is ashamed of her daughter living with another woman, so if BU now moves there feeling confused and messed up, I'm pretty sure her mom would try her best to manipulate against us, which she tries to do even when things are okay. I can't see that being anyhow helpful with our situation.

I'm sorry if you felt attacked by what I said. When Runic Wolf and I were just barely out of noob status in open relationships and fairly new to BDSM as well he "rescued" a friend from her "emotionally abusive" family. Initially, we both thought she might be interested in a threesome, but I was quickly shut down and took it in stride. I never really trusted her or felt comfortable with her. She told me that when they'd met, she didn't notice he was married and was looking for an older boyfriend (we were 24/25 and she was 18 or 19). She claimed to be interested in being his 24/7 sub, wanted to wear a dog collar and to be called Little Bitch, seemed to live to cook and clean for him while I worked 60 hours a week and went to school part time. It was very alluring for him - especially considering that at that point in my life, I wasn't even willing to try to be submissive for him. Her attitude towards me, her communication, and many other things were toxic to our marriage. Though he was too blinded by NRE to see it. She convinced him of many things about me that weren't true - including that he wasn't really bi-polar and didn't need to take his meds. The last straw for me happened when our 4 year old drew a family picture at pre-school and I wasn't in it, but she was. I ended up having the night off from class unexpectedly and was at his mother's when he arrived, with her in tow, to pick up our son. They'd planned on taking him to the carnival and she didn't want me to come. We ended up going home, fighting, me telling him I couldn't take her being in our lives any more while she sat out on our balcony listening to every word. He took her home and I told him until he went back on his meds, I couldn't trust him to stay in our house. He moved in with his mother for 5 weeks while we talked through it, attempted counseling. He came over every night to tuck our son into bed and we'd talk, I'd tell him how much I needed him, loved him, and couldn't live without him. I cried myself to sleep when he left and eventually he realized what he really wanted/ needed and came home. That was 7 years ago and we're stronger for it, but damn was it hard.

We didn't go back to being monogamous (we never really were after we were married), but we chose our partners more carefully after that. I'm not saying that you two need to separate, but I do think that what you have been doing isn't working. Something needs to change and you both need to figure out what that is together and commit to sticking to it.

[opalescent]

We only know what BU and now you tell us. Take what we say, use what is helpful and ignore the rest. No one here expects you to do anything we say. We hope you think about our points, even the harshly worded ones. But really we are electrons on a screen. Use or not as you see fit.

That said, for the people who post regularly, we've been following your story for a while - of course just from BU's point of view. We've heard about your struggles, your happiness and good times. So basically we care. We want you and BU to succeed and be happy (although not at the cost of either your sanity or health). BU sent me a lovely message when my marriage failed. She's become an online acquaintance, and by extension, I feel like I know you a bit too. (Have you read her words about you in her blog? Might be good for perspective.) So we give a damn and see some frightening things going on. So we might respond more strongly than is necessary. That said, you have every right to tell us off, say we got it wrong and give your side. I hope you continue doing so.

[Arrowbound]

Here's what I'm getting from what's been posted so far:

BU is aware of issues that have arisen, and acutely so, to the point of wanting to move home to her disapproving mother.
Vanilla is somewhat aware but is insistent on glazing things over and pressing on.

That's what I'm reading tbh. I feel like there's so much "Yeah, it sounds pretty bad, but it's not reeeeeeally that bad" going on, and I don't know who that's going to help. And honestly with these other immature, self-serving partners when are y'all going to have time to work on YOUR relationship? Especially considering that the shitty things that have happened amuses them.

[BlackUnicorn]

I had the greatest day yesterday. I presented my work at a conference and got enthusiastic feedback. Work was great, as usual, and I had a happy relaxing evening at the place I'm volunteering at. I didn't realize how important this feeling of confidence in my work and not-being-trapped-at-home feeling is for my wellbeing.

So I came home, happy and relaxed, and texted Vanilla that it's okay if Chip stays the night, or that at least I would like to try communicating with him on a non-hostile basis. The evening went great! We watched Supernatural and the world was saved again (gosh I love that show) and went to bed. I slept on the couch with my ear plugs, since despite her protests I knew Vanilla and Chip would like to get up to something behind the bedroom door. This had the unintended consequence of me sleeping blissfully through the alarm and just barely getting up early enough for my therapy.

In therapy we talked through how important individuation would be for me, complete with finding people who share my passions and interests. The therapist thinks I fall too easily into the helper role in my interpersonal relationships. She suspects it's due to having grown up surrounded by adults with acute, untreated mental health problems. I honestly can't come up with a single positive close relationship with a healthy adult when I think of my childhood. It was good to hear that it might not be all me being too sensitive and challenging and controlling but rather me being necessarily healthy but having to deal with too many people with too much undeclared baggage at the crucial moments when I was learning how to be with other people, what I can reasonably expect from others etc. :eek:.

The funny thing is, when I am at happiest with myself, I feel the most that my relationship with Cookie is a dead-end, and trying to save everybody from themselves isn't healthy. I don't how to break it to him that I honestly deserve better :confused:.

Vanilla has, come the new relationship with Chip, come to realize that her earlier d/s relationship with Goblin wasn't a healthy dynamic at all but for 90 % just sheer emotional abuse. She experiences the time as quite traumatic nowadays. Goblin holds on to weird stalking behaviours even now - he spent considerable amount of time and detective work on finding out who Chip is IRL. I think he just gets off on this control fantasy - he insists that Vanilla can never meet anyone that he doesn't already know and have an opinion of.

After work today I'm going to head home to do some connection exercises with Vanilla and hopefully have hawt and not-too-tired sex. I've decided to commit to my own physical health, too - if I can't make it to a krav maga class, I'll do yoga instead.

[BlackUnicorn]

The Lord is indeed good. Cookie has found the woman of his dreams, and it ain't me! He cancelled our overnight date tonight to be with this dream broad, and I'm so happy I'm well-nigh bursting. Go happy couple go! I hope he never texts me again.

Vanilla just left for the kink party we we're supposed to go together, but where she'll be going with Chip intstead. She was super-grumpy for all her stuff having mysteriously gone missing and being so very late. I tried to sleep through most of grump. So it just so happens I have the flat to myself, no one to look after expect myself (do have to feed the cats at some point though, poor single cat mother me) and tons of creative crap to do. Yee-haw!

I've talked it over and over again with the psychologist, mum, Vanilla, Flattie, you lot on how I want to find people who share my passions and zest for life and with whom I can feel equal sharing friendship and possible partnership with. I think I'm working there, slowly but surely. Life is good.

[nycindie]

I hope he never texts me again.

...I want to find people who share my passions and zest for life and with whom I can feel equal sharing friendship and possible partnership with.
You do have a say in all of that, you know. You can tell him never to contact you again, and maybe you can even block him from doing so (depending on your service). And you can start building your self-esteem so you make better choices about the people you spend time with. Why hope for other people to make the decisions? Take a stance, honey!

[BlackUnicorn]

I did it! Sorta. But it was exciting. Just texting "I hope you are okay with us only seeing each other as friends from now on". Standing up for myself is exciting!

I have a minor issue with poly non-judgement atm. A girl I know has recently moved in with a MFM triad/vee as the newest addition to the bunch. She has dated the other man in the equation since the beginning of this year, and moved in almost immediately. All are bi and most are outside working life. I can't see a way this will not blow up in everyone's faces and magnificiently so. Am I being too narrow-minded? Am I generalizing from my own experience too much?

[JaneQSmythe]

A girl I know has recently moved in with a MFM triad/vee as the newest addition to the bunch. She has dated the other man in the equation since the beginning of this year, and moved in almost immediately. All are bi and most are outside working life. I can't see a way this will not blow up in everyone's faces and magnificiently so. Am I being too narrow-minded? Am I generalizing from my own experience too much?

Not nearly enough info to know the likelihood of stuff "blowing-up" - so much (everything?) depends on the people involved. Dude moved in with us from essentially day one (maybe before). Made it through the first year okay and all relationships are growing stronger...you never know :p

JaneQ

[nycindie]

I have a minor issue with poly non-judgement atm... I can't see a way this will not blow up in everyone's faces and magnificiently so. Am I being too narrow-minded? Am I generalizing from my own experience too much?

Well, it does sound like a handy distraction to keep you from focusing on your own relationships. ;)

[BlackUnicorn]

Not nearly enough info to know the likelihood of stuff "blowing-up" - so much (everything?) depends on the people involved. Dude moved in with us from essentially day one (maybe before). Made it through the first year okay and all relationships are growing stronger...you never know :p

JaneQ

I hear you. This quad doesn't have the benefit of everyone being friends beforehand, but like said, you never know. I don't actually know this girl very well, and it's none of my concern really.

Well, it does sound like a handy distraction to keep you from focusing on your own relationships. ;)

So true :p. And I don't really need distractions. I have two jobs, an unfinished thesis, two book projects, training trallallaaa, oh did I mention therapy! I'm going to stay so far away from everyone else's poly shit as possible.

[BlackUnicorn]

Just wanted to speed update: I think something really moved forward last night with Vanilla. We were able to discuss her sex addiction, why it bothers her, what possibly could be done to alleviate the burden it places on her and our relationship, and finished with a plan to move forward.

[BlackUnicorn]

Through talking to a multitude of people from all walks of life, I'm becoming gradually more aware of what my particular boundaries are when it comes to my relationship with Vanilla vis-a-vis poly. I feel that why I am definitely not a vanilla at least most of the time, I'm no liquorice either. I need to be able to draw boundaries around which kink activities are okay in our relationship and how much Vanilla's other kinky activities can affect our relationship.

We are taking a break from sex right now. Vanilla's bruising from last weekend's kink party is such that it makes me want to puke if I accidentally catch a glimpse of that. It brings to mind pictures of torture victims I've seen - def not a turn-on. I've requested she wear something to cover them up when at home so I don't have to feel constantly vaguely nauseous. I feel good about this particular boundary and my ability to ask for it and enforce it.

[BlackUnicorn]

Is what I'm having right now.

Yesterday night Vanilla came to bed and confessed to having found a lump besides her cervix. It freaked me out (mum, cancer, remember?). I asked if she wanted to make an appointment to see the doctor herself or if I should do it. She asked me to do it.

So I did, and got her an appointment at the early afternoon. So I called her and told her when her appointment woul be (four hours later at that point). I called her again two hours prior to the doctor to make sure she had woken up and taken a shower and was getting ready.

20 mins before we had scheduled to meet, I had already left work to be there on time. She texts me that she was late from the bus and will only make it there at the precise time her appointment was supposed to start. I call her and ask what the heck. She offers a variety of excuses -the next bus was five minutes late, she was only 30 seconds late for the bus she was supposed to take, she thought the appointment was five minutes later, she couldn't take the taxi because she had no money, the money I gave her was needed for food, she hadn't yet gone to the store but would go later today...

(Turns out the lump was NORMAL :eek:. We weren't the first ladies to come to the doctor all freaked about our cervixes, which are naturally pourous and lumpy around the opening. We both have HPV and cellular abnormalities, plus it was two years since Vanilla's last smear test, so I was worried. Thank God it's alright.)

After we get out of the doctor's office, Vanilla claims that I was overreacting and that she knew all the time it wasn't serious. Excuses, justifications, defences. She's been living off the money I give her lately, because she lost her wallet. It's inside the house. Why hasn't she found it? Because the house is such a mess, and she's too tired and achy to look for it. (Today she did manage to go to the bank to get some money for herself, which was unexpected and gave me some hope).

We have an ongoing discussion on my contribution to our household. I feel I can't work two jobs and be expected to carry out half the housework, especially since I'm barely there and she's at home all day every day. I don't have the time to make a mess! When she cooks, eats, does thing x, she can't move a single item to the trash. Empty wrappers and left-overs just end up on the floor, where the cats make a mess of them. I cleaned what remained of her several day old pizza left-overs that the cats had a field-day with, and my reward was that she complained that I don't even do the one thing that's supposed to be all my responsibility - the dishes.

She has known Chip for two weeks, and sees him more than she does me and communicates with him constantly, while I shouldn't bother her time with him by texting, since he gets upset. She cries how I don't understand how much she enjoys her bruises and how I don't accept her as she is, but although I have tried to initiate sex (by saying "I want to have sex tonight"), she hasn't been interested. She herself freaked about her bruising but now it has been turned upside down and it is me who has insisted she give up pain for a month. Her previous abusive dom Goblin, with whom she remains in close contact, convinced her that I am unreasonable to ask her to respect her own limits and boundaries by taking a break from intensive BDSM exploration and that as a masochist, pain is her basic need and no one, not even her, should try to control it.

Yesterday our sex attempt ended in tears because she was so upset about my recent hair cut. She sees me as controlling, impossible to please and demanding, and herself as a totally helpless victim of pain and impossible, incomprehensible demands. I listen to her and all I hear is how nothing is ever her fault, it's me or bus timetables or her evil psychiatrist or whatnot. Chip of course is above reproach, the only one who really understands her, he cannot be burdened by the day to day struggle of taking care of her, and his needs must be catered to at all times. He freaked out when he heard that Vanilla has HSV, and went on about how she had lead him on by saying that her test results were 'clean' (which they were, they don't test for HSV up here), which to his mind they were not. While he has around five gfs and is obviously to me a giant dick (not literally, he is quite small) who should be worried about how safe a partner he is, Vanilla is just worried that he is afraid of love, a delusion he is happy to cater to. BLARGH!!!11

I'm living and letting live. From now on I'll get my own food, do my own laundry, take care of my own appointments and live my own life. Vanilla doesn't want to be parented or nurtured or taken care of. Fine.

[Vanilla]

I need to remove your blog from my bookmarks and stop reading this. It's enough work for me to try to keep breathing at the moment (oh how I wish I could just stop), I can't take this shit publicly anymore. Hurts too much. You just don't even try to see how much I'm working to get things better and how I see things.

Oh and by the way, you're not gonna survive with your own laundry. You're never home to do it.

[AnnabelMore]

This is to both of you -- please know that all of us who read here care about you and aren't judging you. Please take your feelings seriously, especially any desire for self-harm. Check into the hospital for a few days if necessary. My mom checked herself into a mental health facility for a week a couple years back because she felt so hopeless and thank god she's ok and still with us now, wrote possibly because of that.

[BrigidsDaughter]

that as a masochist, pain is her basic need and no one, not even her, should try to control it.

I just wanted to touch on this point. I am a masochist and pain is a basic need of mine. I will get achy and cranky if I don't have it on a regular basis. Sometimes it is enough that my husband bites me or comes up behind me while I'm doing dishes and spanks me or that my boyfriend uses his nails during sex. Other times even that isn't enough. I participate in a boffer larp and a medieval combat sport in part because it guarantees that I get that need met at least once a week. I could live w/o D/s play, but not w/o pain. Not entirely, and most certainly not for a whole month.

I know you may not understand her kink or like how it affects your relationship; but in reality you may be asking her to stop being herself for your comfort. You have every right to have your boundaries, but she also has a right to have her needs met as well.

[BlackUnicorn]

Check into the hospital for a few days if necessary.

The day hospital thing isn't happening because Vanilla isn't feeling bad enough - she would basically have to attempt suicide or be diagnosable with something major to qualify for admission :(.

I know you may not understand her kink or like how it affects your relationship; but in reality you may be asking her to stop being herself for your comfort. You have every right to have your boundaries, but she also has a right to have her needs met as well.

This is a good point - thank you, BD :o. I don't understand it, but I don't have to understand everything about her. The situation, to my knowledge, went something like this: she went for a smoke the night after the party, then came back to bed and confided in me that she was pretty freaked about the bruising and how her boundaries seem to be slipping away. We talked about that and I opinioned that feelings of anxiety and freak-outs that seemingly come from nowhere for no good reason are usually a sign of either 1) a traumatic stress response being triggered by reminders of the original traumatic event OR 2) an alarm clock that's going off to say that a boundary is being broken and the psyche isn't ready to deal with that.

I suggested that usually in such situations, and also to find out if you have an addiction vs. basic need, it's beneficial to withdraw from the activity which lead to the freak-out for a set amount of time. (For the record, I define addicition as a long-term craving for something that causes significant harm in at least two broad life arenas: while food is basic need of mine, I can go without food or settle for something that I don't particularly like, and I can regulate my food intake to a degree - after I'm full I don't continue to digest more). I suggested a month (could have been a week, taking into account the frequency of their meet-ups), but this was somehow misunderstood as me demanding that Vanilla take a month off from pain-inducing activities.

But happy news! When we discussed with Vanilla how we could enhance our communication and in concrete ways show that we care, I requested she take the time to look for her wallet. She did, and it is found! :) Stuff like that really helps me build confidence and trust in this relationship.

Oh and btw, I found a therapist who specializes in sex addiction and is willing to take Vanilla on as a patient. Happy that things are moving forward.

Baby steps, baby steps.

[BlackUnicorn]

I've spent a little more time with Chip and wonder how exactly Vanilla sees that a change from Cookie to Chip is better.

A brief comparison between Cookie and Chip

1. Is hostile to women (check for both)
2. Is enthusiastic about game theory and how to trick women into sex (check for both)
3. Thinks men are ultimately at disadvantage to women and hence feels the need to protect his interests at all times when it comes to relationships (check for both)
4. Has inflexible political and lifestyle beliefs that defy reason, contrary evidence and change (check for both)
5. Has low self-esteem (check for both)
6. Has a pessimistic worldview where everyone is out to get them and they can rely on no one but themselves (check for both)
7. Thinks feelings, especially romantic feelings, are fishy and avoids them since they cloud reason and make him vulnerable (check for both)
8. Doesn't respect boundaries and presses on even after several requests to stop because he needs to prove he's right (check for both)
9. Thinks Vanilla is dirty (check for both)
10. Uses Vanilla for sex and easy submission (check for both)

Wow, these boys sure seem like peas in a pod! Human attraction is weird sometimes. I will stop now because Vanilla will read this and be angry because I don't know Chip and won't take the time to get to know him and his mother loves him very much etc.

[SNeacail]

Still in the end, it's her choice and the more you point out his flaws, the more she will fight back. It's always those that love us that can see when someone isn't good for us, LOOOOONG before we are willing to admit it or open our eyes to see what everyone else has been complaining about.

Don't allow the disrespect or hostility in your presence. Call him on it immediately. What goes on between them outside of your presence is their business. There needs to be an agreement between you and Vanilla about when you've been pushed too far and she needs to remove him from your home.

8. Doesn't respect boundaries and presses on even after several requests to stop because he needs to prove he's right

Assuming this goes on between you and him or in your presence, look up and learn more effective ways to bring a halt to a conversation or such. I know there are some things that can be done that are quite effective.

Maybe there are some older and more experienced persons in the S/M community that you and Vanilla can sit down and talk to and ask questions. Where is the line between play and abuse, how far is too far, etc?

[BlackUnicorn]

Still in the end, it's her choice and the more you point out his flaws, the more she will fight back. It's always those that love us that can see when someone isn't good for us, LOOOOONG before we are willing to admit it or open our eyes to see what everyone else has been complaining about.

Don't allow the disrespect or hostility in your presence. Call him on it immediately. What goes on between them outside of your presence is their business. There needs to be an agreement between you and Vanilla about when you've been pushed too far and she needs to remove him from your home.


Actually, I don't engage with him on that level at all. It's Vanilla who asks him to stop pestering her with topics she doesn't want to talk about. This morning the big topic was politics, which Vanilla has no interest in at all. While I'm super-political person, I assume that if Vanilla wants to discuss a P topic, she will just bring it up, and of course if she asks, I'll briefly outline what I'm doing at any given moment. I appreciate hearing her viewpoints but don't usually feel the need to make her see my take on the matter at hand.

However, both Cookie and Chip have a way of pestering until the other person wears down and admits their defeat. If this doesn't happen, they conclude that the person they are talking to is a) stupid, b) ignorant, c) needs more convincing. While Vanilla kept on asking him to change the subject and told him several times that politics have no interest to her and she doesn't want to discuss it, he continued.


Assuming this goes on between you and him or in your presence, look up and learn more effective ways to bring a halt to a conversation or such. I know there are some things that can be done that are quite effective.

Maybe there are some older and more experienced persons in the S/M community that you and Vanilla can sit down and talk to and ask questions. Where is the line between play and abuse, how far is too far, etc?

Thanks for the above advice. I'm hoping to make a contact with some people in the community, but so far the only person Vanilla opens up to about this is her abusive ex-dom, whom I don't trust to have her or our best interests at heart.

I haven't really viewed this as a BDSM issue, but more like general disrespect for other people. I don't think this is about powerplay to them but about being right, and it doesn't matter what the particular relationship form is. They go on and on about their pet topics online etc.

[SNeacail]

If this doesn't happen, they conclude that the person they are talking to is a) stupid, b) ignorant, c) needs more convincing.

Oh, they've been taking lessons from my mother - Did I say that out loud?:p

While Vanilla kept on asking him to change the subject and told him several times that politics have no interest to her and she doesn't want to discuss it, he continued.

Again, this is her issue. If she doesn't like it, she can walk away. I know it's frustrating, but unless she is willing to take action to stop it, she shouldn't be complaining to you about it. This is where you need a boundary.

When she does start complaining, you can straight out ask her "Do you want my advice or are you just venting?" If she's just venting, you can determine if you can let her vent or if it's making you too upset and you need her to stop. Sometimes it helps to know what they need from you up front. Does she need a soldier to come to her defense and knock someone's teeth in or does she just need a shoulder to cry on.

I haven't really viewed this as a BDSM issue, but more like general disrespect for other people. I don't think this is about powerplay to them but about being right, and it doesn't matter what the particular relationship form is. They go on and on about their pet topics online etc.

It seems like it might be a BDSM issue (at least partially) for Vanilla. My thought was if you two did some research together... 1. you would gain a better understanding of her need 2. She would know you are trying to understand for her sake 3. You both can work together to keep each other in safe and healthy relationships.

[BrigidsDaughter]

I agree, also, there are some "Doms" who feel the need to assert dominance in all situations, in part because of their status as dominant. I have a friend who considers himself the most dominant person in our social group to which other friends have laughed. He has alot of machismo, but my husband can use he dad voice on him and he'll sit down and shut up instantaneously.

[BlackUnicorn]

I haven't read my blog through. I suppose it would be fun and frustrating, but I don't feel like it's time for self-reflection quite now.

I recently asked a dear loving friend to read this blog. He did and commented on some parts. Vanilla has also commented that I only journal/blog when things are going not-so-well (a trait I share with the venerable Mr. J.R.R. Tolkien - I hope I'm never that famous).

I almost never write about my studies or work in here. I'm plenty identifiable as it is for people who know me, should they stumble upon this blog. A few people on these forums I've shared more personal information with and a few even know my real name. There are a bunch of people in here I would be happy to befriend on FB, for example - I'm not super-uptight about privacy. The privacy of people who figure heavily in my blog, mainly Vanilla, however, keeps me from adding personal pictures etc. to my profile, let alone from publishing them in here.

While there's a great deal of stuff I can never disclose in here, I'm not superhappy with this blog as it is, since it's mainly been for the last two months a depressing pile of shit. Not that I'm shit-averse or unwilling to deal with it, but I sometimes try to think why somebody else would like to read my blog - and it certainly isn't for the happy happy joy joy ambience it gives out lately.

So I've decided to post something a bit more generally relationship-py for every post on my personal stuff I publish. I do read a lot of useful stuff, work-related and personal interest, that I think might be of more general interest. So I'm beginning in the next post with a translation of an article by a sex therapist on (Not Only)Lesbian Bed Death.

I'll mark out clearly the personal from the general posts in the titles so people who are all public service or all dramarama-oriented and possibly reading this can skip the parts they are not interested in.

[BlackUnicorn]

Written by Mia Hemming, guest expert Leena Väisälä (gyneacologist, clinical sexologist, Bayer Inc), published in the Finnish magazine Hyvä Terveys (Good Health), issue 14/2011, pp. 58 - 59 (translation unauthorized and all mine)

Sex is everywhere - expect in one's very own bedroom. If your sex life has been put on a damper, you can either choose nostalgia or bringing on the heat again and heading in the direction of new pleasures.

1) Does sex eventually end in a relationship?
It's possible, but usually only when one partner falls seriously ill. Low desire, on the other hand, which affects the frequency of sex, is a very common problem in long-term relationships.

2) Is low desire solely women's problem?
No, but women have an easier time bringing it up with their gyneacologist. Men don't have a similar person to open up to. Men can talk about erectile dysfunction with their doctors, but have a harder time dealing with low desire.

There are also more women out there who are not familiar with their own sexual pleasure. It's not too long ago that our culture was still trying to repress feminine sexuality.

3) Why is it that in long-term relationships the partners don't always really desire each other?
There's thousand and one explanations for that. Sometimes the partners have a desire discrepancy; they have different hopes and expectations for sex and their relationship. Sex might have been instituonalized in that relationships in a form that bores one or both parties.

It's more often the case, however, that the partner who feels less desire also feels undervalued. They feel unheard and unlistened to.

Sometimes power struggles within the relationship can dampen desire for sex.

Being too close can affect desire levels negatively. The couple hasn't been able to move on beyond the symbiosis phase.

Sex as a mandatory chore kills desire, too. This is most often the case when the sex in the relationship happens because of an internalized norm of how frequent sex should be for the relationship to "do well".

4) Can low desire be caused by something outside of the relationship?
Setbacks on other areas of life can affect desire levels. Work-related stress, kids having issues or even just inequal distribution of housework so that everything is left to the responsibility of only one of the partners can suck out all the available energy. Sexuality can be affected equally by unhealthy living or mental health issues.

Low self-esteem can result in avoiding one's partner. If you don't like yourself and your body, it's difficult to get and stay close to your partner. Sometimes a woman who has a negative body image has inherited this attitude from her mother.

5) Is it problematic if a couple has sex infrequently?
If both are happy with the situatin, then everything's as it should be. Most people adapt to the fact that as the relationship matures and progresses, frequency of sex decreases. Sex can be substituted for by other hobbies which make life pleasurable.

We have to keep in mind that the beginning of a relationship is characterized by a really active and passionate sex life. The amount of sex decreases naturally from there. People who have been together for a long time are able to find other ways to be together.

6) So treatment is not necessary if you don't feel like it every night or morning or Sunday?
Absolutely not. Sex in a relationship shouldn't be assessed according to the amount but rather to the satisfaction levels of both parties. It's only a positive thing to have other pleasurable interests and activities in one's life. Wellbeing shouldn't only be dependent on sex.

There are phases in one's life when sex takes a back seat: when kids are young, or work is of primary importance. When things settle down, there's often more time to devote to sex, too.

[BlackUnicorn]

7) If it's always one partner who desires less than the other, should they still agree to sex sometimes?
You should never do anything that feels unpleasant. If you engage in sexual interaction you don't like, it only serves to further kill the desire. If you only subject yourself to the other's desires, it's easy to end up feeling used. Women from earlier generations unfortunately have often agreed to sex as a way to fulfill their duties.

You should never pressure your partner into having sex. Whatever the situation, you must respect the other's right to self-determination.

On the other hand, the party who has lower desire could do things they know will arouse them. Both parties should take the responsibility for their own sexuality.

8) Does this mean you should only have sex when you really really want it?
Desire doesn't always arise just by thinking about sex, but can build-up for example through caresses. There's no harm in trying whether the spark is there or not. Sometimes it's good to call forth sexual excitement. You should know how to say both yes, no and maybe to sexual proposals.

9) Should the partner who has stronger desires give up sex alltogether?
On first aid basis, solo sex, making love to yourself, is a good start. Fantasies and caresses can lead up to a world of pleasure. It pays off to discuss frankly with your partner your needs and hopes, but without blaming. If the situation is not brought out into the open, it leads into looking for other partners and might be the end of the relationship.

10) Can a new relationship be a way to enhance your sex life?
Sometimes it can be. Sex can flourish with a new partner, at least in the early stages of the relationship. People who have totally opposite desire levels can be fooled into thinking that sex will sort itself out given time. This doesn't always come to pass, though.

If you have partnered off in very early life, chances are that you haven't been very self-aware. Later you realize that there's not very much you have in common with your mate. Finding your partner in middle-age can be a better thing for the duration of the relationship. Long-term relationships are always very challenging, for most people crave variety.

Changing partners however often is not the solution. Unsolved problems need to be dealt with in the new relationship, too.

11) If you don't want to change partners, what can you do to improve your sex life?
Open communication is the key, and is often enough on its own to get past some deadends. It pays off to think, for example, why sex used to be better before. It's okay to talk about your own wishes and desires and also to mark what doesn't turn you on.

Both partners need to take responsibility for their own enjoyment. Becoming aware of your needs helps a great deal. Telling your partner that they suck at making you happy isn't going to improve anything.

It's beneficial to read books on the subject or seek help from sexual councelling and therapy.

12) What can you do if you are the one who has lower desire?
You can take a look at your habits and lifestyle: they can be the direct cause of low desire. Listen to yourself: are you depressed or has some past trauma activated in your current life? The first order of business in such a situation is to take care of your mental health through therapy, for example, because low desire is just a symptom of wider suffering.

If low self-esteem is your particular poison, you don't have to settle to being unhappy with who you are. You can start belly-dancing or whatever helps you reconnect with your body. It's good to try out sexual councelling and therapy, too.

13) Is it worth it, trying to improve your sex life?
Everyone is worth sexual pleasure. All adults have the right to an active sex life. At it's best and brightest moments, sex serves as the glue that keeps the couple together. Why not give into some fun once in a while? Good sex gives you unbelievable amounts of strenght.

[BlackUnicorn]

I'm eating cheese crackers with chopsticks. I read somewhere that if you use chopsticks to pick up the crackers from the bag, you won't eat too many. Too bad I'm good with chopsticks.

I also invested in some porn yesterday on my campaign "I want to want more"! It was okay, a bit boring but I didn't fall asleep. Maybe I can fast-forwards the videos somehow? Do I have a shorter-than-average attention span?

Tomorrow we are going to plant some herbs with Vanilla and have sex, in that order. Herbs shouldn't take that long, so even if I'm not home before 10 pm, we should still have time for the planting and sex even if I have to go to sleep at midnight the latest.

This week is also our anniversary, I try to get off work early for celebrations!

Vanilla just got to know that one of Chip's gfs has committed suicide. She seemed very happy and chipper the one time they met with Vanilla. I've read that people who have decided to kill themselves may appear very content and energetic right before they do the deed. I'm a bit afraid for Vanilla to slip too much into the mood, especially if she takes in a lot of Chip's pain. She has enough to deal with, with her own depression and all.

I've had a great weekend working, foruming, meeting friends and lounging about in my empty apt SANS cats! Woohoo! I've even managed to get some modest decluttering done. I desperately need to get this one project application done, but it's not even midnight yet, so absolutely no rush :rolleyes:.

On times like these, I really miss living with Flattie. When things were really bad with Vanilla, I asked Flattie if we could rent a shared apt for the summer, and she said sure, whatever you need. I love her *kiss kiss munch munch*. Her bunnie was a filthy little bugger but at least he didn't try to eat my food off the plate.

[km34]

I'm eating cheese crackers with chopsticks. I read somewhere that if you use chopsticks to pick up the crackers from the bag, you won't eat too many. Too bad I'm good with chopsticks.

I also invested in some porn yesterday on my campaign "I want to want more"! It was okay, a bit boring but I didn't fall asleep. Maybe I can fast-forwards the videos somehow? Do I have a shorter-than-average attention span?



I have never heard about the chopstick thing! I really don't think it would work for me either, but it's an interesting idea.

As for the wanting to want more thing, I've noticed that porn (video porn) does NOT do it for me, but erotic novels or short stories do. I think while reading a story, I can more easily picture myself in the scenario which to me is much more exciting than flat-out watching other people. Just a thought. :)

[BlackUnicorn]

I have never heard about the chopstick thing! I really don't think it would work for me either, but it's an interesting idea.

Now you made me crave some crackers :eek:!!!11

As for the wanting to want more thing, I've noticed that porn (video porn) does NOT do it for me, but erotic novels or short stories do. I think while reading a story, I can more easily picture myself in the scenario which to me is much more exciting than flat-out watching other people. Just a thought. :)

A good thought. I think I mostly enjoy the aesthetics too much to really get turned on. Like, I have a problem imaging super-pretty people have sex. And all the porn I watch is about blindingly beautiful Eastern European women with long hair and limbs caressing each other tenderly (not really, but you get the idea). If it were written down I wouldn't get too distracted by how beautiful the cinematography is.

I used to be into reading fanfics quite a bit. Maybe I should look back into that.

[nycindie]

...I have a problem imaging super-pretty people have sex.You would probably like amateur porn, then. It's more fun and realistic. The angles aren't always optimized for the camera, so people are actually doing what they're doing without everything being external and showing. So, a little bit of mystery remains when you can't see all the details. Much better.

[BlackUnicorn]

You would probably like amateur porn, then. It's more fun and realistic. The angles aren't always optimized for the camera, so people are actually doing what they're doing without everything being external and showing. So, a little bit of mystery remains when you can't see all the details. Much better.

Cool! The only porn I've ever really been exposed to has been the ultra-pretty people who don't sweat and some heavy BDSM stuff Vanilla enjoys (sperm in the eyes!?! WTF), so I haven't really developed a taste for anything so far.

[BlackUnicorn]

From Community Psychology: In Pursuit of Liberation and Well-being, pp. 10 - 11:

"The Ontario Health Supplement conducted in 1991 found that in a representative sample of adults in Ontario (close to 10,000 respondents) the one-year prevalence rate for any mental disorder was 48% (Offord et al., 1994). In the Ontario Child Health study of a representative sample of children and young people (3,000 children) in Ontario, Offord et al. (1987) found a one-year prevalence rate of 18% for any disorder.

What is most disturbing about these findings is that the majority of adults and children with mental disorders were not receiving any mental health intervention for their problems (Offord et al., 1987; Offord et al., 1994). Based on his report on human resources in mental health, George Albee (1959) concluded that there were not, and never could be, enough trained mental health professionals to provide treatment services to everyone with a mental health problem. Even if therapy were 100% effective, mental health problems could not be eliminated, because the need for services far outstips their supply. As Albee (1996a) has reminded us, 'no mass disease (disorder) in human history has ever been eliminated or significantly controlled by attempts at treating the affected individual, nor by training large numbers of individual treatment personnel' (pp. 4-5).

...

Schofield (1964) argued that psychotherapy tends to be geared to clients who are young, attractive, verbal, intelligent and successful. To this list we can add that psychotherapy clients are those who have health insurance or can afford this treatment. In their famous study of social class and mental illness, Hollingshead and Redlich (1958) found a two-tiered system of treatment, one for the affluent and one for the poor. Affluent people with less serious mental health problems tended to receive psychotherapy, while poor people with more serious mental health problems tended to be 'treated' in mental hospitals with drug therapy and custodial care.

As Offird et al. (1994) reported, nearly half (42%) of those respondents who do not have a diagnosable mental disorder receive some form of mental health intervention. Beiser, Gill and Edwards (1993) reviewed factors that influence people's utilization of mental health services and they argued that treatment approaches typically reflect Europ-North American values, which may contradict the beliefs of people from different cultures. Language is another barrier for some cultural and ethnic groups to receiving mental health intervention. As a result, many ethnic minority consumers either do not access services or they drop out of programs after their initial contacts."

[AnnabelMore]

May I recommend a wonderful queer alt-porn performer named Jiz Lee? So dreamy!!

[BlackUnicorn]

First things go first: Vanilla was diagnosed with Borderline Personality Disorder. Weehee! I'm so relieved to know that the underlying issue isn't 1) me 2) her 3) us no good.

I've been reading up as much on BLPD as I can. Turns out it's not nearly as severe and untreatable as previously thought, but in fact shows amazing recovery rates. Vanilla is now the fourth person I know for a fact has this diagnosis. We talked over the phone with mum and she was also relived to know that so many of the things that have been bothering her about Vanilla have an explanation now.

I've more or less accommodated to the reality that is Chip. Things have permanently changed for me and Vanilla - there is a huge chunk of my life that I can no longer share with her, since I don't know if, when and how it will carry on to Chip's or, worse yet, Goblin's ears. I also have to be very careful about leaving my stuff, especially papers, lying around the house. I had a minor quesy feeling when I realized my bedroom drawer had been opened while I wasn't there and a book I was reading had been taken out for browsing and general inspection. I mean, it's a small thing but makes me feel nauseous nevertheless.

Vanilla's nurse wants me to commit to regular couple's therapy. I hate to sound bad but I hope it doesn't interfere overmuch with my work. I really need to focus on my own life, too - that's the biggest trigger Vanilla has atm, that I care more about my work than I care about her and our relationship.

[PinkDragon]

While I haven't read /every/ post of your blog, I have to tell you that I'm really enjoying it because of the situation that is developing in my life. And... I'm new to poly. This should be interesting!

[Vanilla]

If anyone gets any kind of contact (FB, Skype, phone, anything) with BU, please tell her to contact me. She left home some days ago, her phone's off and I don't even know if she's alive. I don't know why, everything seemed to be alright and then she suddenly just disappeared. This situation hurts like hell.

Honey, if you read this, please come home. Or call me. Anything. Just want to know you're okay.

[AnnabelMore]

Oh my god. :( I so hope she's ok, and I'm sorry for what you must be going through, V!

[opalescent]

Vanilla,

Oh no. Sending you hugs and strength.

BU, phone home please! Your real life loves and online friends are worried.

[Arrowbound]

OMG... I hope she's okay. :(

Sending you good thoughts Vanilla. Keep heart and stay hopeful.

[LotusesandRoses]

Vanilla, I'm sorry.

If it makes you feel better, the most common situation that occurs is people in these situations usually just need a little time to think and come home just fine. Prayers for you and your beloved.

[Vanilla]

Thanks everyone for your support. Nothing new yet, she's still missing.

LotusesandRoses, you are probably right. I just can't understand how she can do this to me, leaving without a word when she knows I'm gonna panic and get worried and go crazy. Things were getting better and now this, without any explanation. I've tried to call her mother and her best friend, they don't answer me. Her other friends don't know about her and everyone's just worried. I've tried to call her, send messages, fb, email, everything.

[nycindie]

I just can't understand how she can do this to me...I am sure she's not doing it TO YOU. It's not necessarily about YOU. Maybe she needs to get away FOR HERSELF. Maybe there is a reason her family is not answering your calls -- maybe she wants some alone time and distance. She has been struggling, I know, so this was probably the only way she saw to handle whatever she's going through. I'm sure she will be in touch when she's ready and feels strong enough.

[LotusesandRoses]

If the best friend and mother aren't answering, that's a good sign! It means she's probably okay.

If you haven't already, I'd call the police. Her behavior is unacceptable if she is okay, and if she isn't, authorities should be notified.

[LotusesandRoses]

A bit late to edit, but if the mother isn't answering, she's likely safe. I would not call the police at this point. (Mods, you certainly can edit the above post.)

[BlackUnicorn]

My spirit's on fire, aa-aa, uu, I'm alive... ahem. :o

And I've moved out, as you can see. There is nothing wrong with me, and I've let Vanille know that. She wants to marry someone else, and to me, that is the end of our engagement.

[Vanilla]

This is just bullshit and you know it. You know I love you more than anything. More than my own life. And I wouldn't do anything against your will. So would you now please stop acting like an angry 7-years old and come home to talk about this? Or even answer my calls. You didn't let me know anything and I've worried my head off. I've never been this angry in my whole life, and no-one's ever treated me shitty like this, but please come home and we can figure this out. Please.

[BlackUnicorn]

You are not treating me in a loving way. And haven't for a while. Every month or two, somebody new walzes in to the picture, and you throw our lives completely upside down to accommondate the newest guy you just can't live without.

As to your new fiance, I told you that if you bedded him, I am not going to clean up the mess after things turn sour. This is me not cleaning up. Instead, I'm cleaning myself out. You can consider yourself a free single lady from now on.

And this is all I'm going to say on the matter here in public anymore.

[Vanilla]

Why couldn't you just tell me what's bothering you and we'll figure it out, instead of leaving like this? You let me think that everything's just fine and getting better, and then just disappear? I don't want to do this publicly either, but this seems to be the only way you answer me. So please come home and we'll speak about everything. I've always loved you more than anything. And I always will. We can get things better, I promise. Be mono or whatever. I've promised to spend the rest of my life with you and I mean it, whatever happens. Just don't give up now. Or at least don't leave like this. I just want to see you so we can talk about this.

Call me. Please. I don't want to continue the conversation here.

[Arrowbound]

Thank you for letting us know you're alive and well BU. Hope you and Vanilla can come to some sort of understanding and peace soon.

[BlackUnicorn]

I don't go out much unless I absolutely have to, don't like to go to see friends, either. A poly/cheating disaster just blew up in my circle of closest friends, and has cost me at leat one best friend and possibly also the support of that spiritual group I loved and cherished for so many years. If somebody calls, I don't like to pick up, since I don't want to hear anyone going on about their problems.

Besides, I don't like to think about anyone in a romantic or sexual context at all. All of it just feels really yucky.

But eschewing that, I also think that poly is just not me, like ray also figured out some time ago. I am not interested in A romantic relationship, much less in multiple ones, and the same goes for sex right now. And the things that give me joy right now are decidedly non-sexual/romantic.

I'm quite content.

[SNeacail]

I am not interested in A romantic relationship, much less in multiple ones, and the same goes for sex right now. And the things that give me joy right now are decidedly non-sexual/romantic.

I'm quite content.

Then by all means put your time and energy into these types of relationships. However, don't let yourself be cut off from everyone, that only feeds depressive tenancies and is not healthy (yes, I speak from experience). If you feel you aren't connecting well with certain people, look for others you may have more in common with, but don't cut yourself off completely from everyone else while you look.

It's OK to tell your friends "I'm on drama overload right now, can we just go out, see a movie, band, etc and not talk about anything deep and emotional tonight?" If your friends are REALLY friends, they will understand and be happy to just have a fun evening.

Thursday's happen to be the highlight of my week now, as that is the day I meet up with a group of people I now consider to be my best friends. I may not talk to any of them the rest of the week, except on fb, but meeting up with them once a week (usually as a group), to just sit and chat, watch movies, sew, etc is wonderful. Obviously not everyone can make it every week, but we try. The routine helps build that closeness, especially when the rest of the week is taken up with family and work activities. If I didn't have the set schedule, I'd probably never see them.

[nycindie]

Hi Blackie,
It could be a misinterpretation on my part, as often can happen when reading the written word rather than hearing something expressed in person, but something is coming across in your last post that belies your statement that you are "quite content." You sound a bit angry and fed up.

I don't think isolating is the way to go now, for you, but perhaps you need a new set of friends. People who are able to really be friends without serving their own interests first, and who act with maturity and compassion. Keep looking, good people are out there. And be sure to be kind to yourself.

[opalescent]

BU,

I'm sorry that you are dealing with so many losses right now. It seems to me sometimes that life is incapable of throwing one loss at a time at a person.

Also, it's a good thing to hibernate and think one's thoughts after losses. It can be very healing. But the other folks who warn you about isolation and depression enabling behaviors are wise folks.

Hugs and best wishes!

[BlackUnicorn]

My friend Flattie has been after a married man for two years now. She got out of one relationship, which had lasted for five years and was her first one, to be with this man. She wanted to platonic life partners, since the man was still involved with the wife. She didn't like the wife and vice versa.

Now the situation has finally blown up in everyone's faces. Flattie started saying her prospective partner is mentally ill for staying married with a woman who was making him so unhappy and that he should be admissioned to hospital. She wanted to move in with the man. She moved to the same city to be with him, away from the wife. She said that they were stricly study buddies (she had applied to the university to study the same subject, which she previously vehemenently derided and said she had no interest in).

She (Flattie) moved in with him, that man she had pursued, about a year ago. She said it just until she could find her own place to live in eventually. The housing project he was living in questioned him, because he was supposed to be living there by himself and they were not married but instead, he was supposed to have a regular address at his wife's home. Flattie got very angry and threatened to kill herself. She almost convinced him to move out of there to be with her and live together farther away.

Flattie eventually got her own place in the new town but continued living basically together with her "best friend", essentially spending every night together. She started telling me in the beginning of this year that they were sleeping together everynight, huddled close together, with little to no clothes. This was right around the time my own relationship with Vanille started to go south, and I didn't know what to think.

During this two years, Flattie has gotten increasingly physically demonstrative with her love interest. She kisses him on the mouth every time they meet, continues kissing and cuddling and stroking him and asking if he feels good. She has initiated sex two times, but according to her, has been turned down. She is very touchy-feely in public and spends most of the time, when we are in public somewhere, in his lap. At first she didn't sit in his lap when the wife was present, or touch him, but now she has also gotten the wife to sit with them, holding hands and crying together.

Flattie says she is his best friend, special friend, something no one else, especially his wife, can never be to him. He is reluctant to make other friends. He is clinically depressed. They are having a major relationship crisis with the wife. Flattie is telling the wife that she should just let Flattie take care of her man and rest. Flattie has suggested Flattie to take charge of his treatment and become his guardian in a way, and that the wife should give up and accept the situation.

[BlackUnicorn]

So once Flattie had confided to me that she had managed to convince the hubs that he was better off without the wife, I felt I needed to intervene. I felt it was unfair to let a plot I had seen hatching in front of my eyes for two years, ONE I had actively encouraged by saying stuff like "Love comes in many shapes and sizes", "This stuff happens", "Maybe you should talk to her/him/together", "Maybe you should take your distance". And it was I, so to speak, who started this whole alternate-loving thing in my circle of friends.

So I talked to the wife and told her that she should not allow Flattie invade her privacy like that. Previously she had already said that she does not want to discuss her husband's treatment plans with her, and that she is taking charge of her hubbie's treatment, and that besides, he was not so unwell as Flattie thought. Flattie said that her husband was lying to her all the time, that he only told her things about the wife he resented and how badly he felt about their relationship. She has been telling this same thing for two years but only now to her face.

Flattie has severe paranoid thoughts about her rival. She for example thought that the wife was plotting her downfall, trying to separate her husband from the only one who truly understands him because the wife was a petty, envious soul who just wanted everything for herself. I said she was projecting her own negative qualities and fears onto this other person, but she said I was abusive and controlling myself.

Now Flattie has decided she wants to be friends with the wife so they can together move into taking better care of the hubbie. I told the wife that what I see happening is basically Flattie moving in to secure her place as the primary or "first wife". The wife had already decided there was no need for the two to be in contact, and I supported her in that and said that imho, people like Flattie won't stop unless you break off all contact with them and explain to them why, then refuse from "communicating" in the foreseeable future.

[BlackUnicorn]

So everyone's in a crisis right now. Also, people seem to think I am the expert on what has been going on for the last two years. Everyone is very interested in hearing my perspective on things.

Now that I now longer wish to share that perspective, they are all turning to Flattie to hear "her side of the story". People are struggling with deciding on whose side to be on.

Especially one friend has taken the role of main confidante and supporter of the wife. This supporter friend contacts me all the time and asks me to give my perspective on stuff, if I have any news, what do I think etc. I don't want to talk to her but I feel I have to. This friend is a terrible gossip and basically lives for relationship drama. She is flourishing in this situation.

I like everyone involved and want to stay away. Everyone is gathering together on Friday and Saturday to talk this over, but I don't want to participate. So until then, I avoid phone and FB :).

[BlackUnicorn]

Thursday's happen to be the highlight of my week now, as that is the day I meet up with a group of people I now consider to be my best friends. I may not talk to any of them the rest of the week, except on fb, but meeting up with them once a week (usually as a group), to just sit and chat, watch movies, sew, etc is wonderful. Obviously not everyone can make it every week, but we try. The routine helps build that closeness, especially when the rest of the week is taken up with family and work activities. If I didn't have the set schedule, I'd probably never see them.

This was unfortunately exactly the type of group this cheating disaster has affected. All female particpants are part of the pow-wow (not an actual pow-wow btw, hadn't thought it might be offensive to Native American people o_0).

Hi Blackie,
It could be a misinterpretation on my part, as often can happen when reading the written word rather than hearing something expressed in person, but something is coming across in your last post that belies your statement that you are "quite content." You sound a bit angry and fed up.

I don't think isolating is the way to go now, for you, but perhaps you need a new set of friends. People who are able to really be friends without serving their own interests first, and who act with maturity and compassion. Keep looking, good people are out there. And be sure to be kind to yourself.

You are so right as always. I joined a self-help group for autistic women, and plan to talk to my psychologist about getting a diagnosis in order after she returns from holidays.

[SNeacail]

Wow! This situation sounds a little to familiar right now. Obviously the details are a bit different, but I fully understand the different sides rallying for supporters and attacking the other side. It's hard to stay neutral when your gut is telling you something is definitely wrong.

Best thing to do is NOT give your view point to uninvolved parties. Frankly it's nobody's business except those within the relationship, Flattie, wife and husband. You can certainly give your opinion to those involved, but I would be rather vague with anyone else. I just tell people, "keep in mind, there are always 2 sides to a story and in this case there are 3. Nothing is black and white, there is a lot of grey areas."

[Celticgirl]

I love your shopping list Blackunicorn. It was nice to read and get a new prespective out of the second women. I would have to agree with you.

[BlackUnicorn]

I am so happy with myself for making a decision that I feel genuinely good about.

I've decided to quit the blame-everyone-else-for-your-troubles -game for now. Instead, I have my first AA meeting tomorrow. I hope I get up the courage to go. I have read a lot of the literature involved with this group and feel happy about their philosophy of accepting personal responsibility for things you can change and letting the rest go.

I've looked through a lot of self-help groups lately. I was thinking of going to one that is directed to family members of narcistic individuals, but decided against for now. I think I need to start learning how to separate my personal issues from everyone else's. A self-confessed drama-addict, I need to learn how to live with my own past and solve the questions and challanges it has brought to me, and start treating everyone else later (if ever).

I am now living at a shelter for women who have fallen on hard times, which is good, and I also contacted the police today and told him I want to start living in peace and not live in fear of my mother. I've read on how the AA people believe that everyone needs to hit their personal rock bottom before they can start to build up a life for themselves.

So now that I have broken up my relationship with everyone I truly care about, burnt away all my cash and some cash that's not mine too, run like an effin lunatic and gone past paranoia and desperation to the good calm place of knowing that really, it can't get any worse, I feel I'm finally ready to accept what has happened.

I have realized that I am an addictive personality. Everything fun and pleasurable, I try once and I am hooked. Nothing except complete abstinence can help me now while I am on my road to recovery.

I feel a lot of anger for some stuff that's been done to me. I am resentful, for example, for the constant head injury my mother courteously dealt during my formative years. I hope I can one day get an MRI scan and really know what has happened, i.e. which areas have been hit and how hard, but it's not super-important now.

Another thing I would like to learn is how to deal with being continuously molested as a child. I know people do live happy productive lives and have partners etc., but I'm not there yet. I would like to develop a sexuality and intimacy that feels good to me, and not just use sex and love as teddybears to cure the terrible inner longing I have.

And third on the list is learning how to cry again. Everytime I cried as a child, somebody would hit me in the face or in the head or throw something at me or pull at my hair or try to smother me etc., no need to go into great and gory detail right now. I tried to keep an about face, but would also get hit for that. Laughing and smiling were considered disrespectful, since there was nothing to laugh about, and about face showed I was secrectly plotting something. So when I was around seven or so, I discovered that everytime I felt something, I could calmly, in my mind's eye, take it, examine it, and then crush it into little pieces and let it die. So except somewhat drugged but generally benevolent stupour, I've not felt anything since I went to school, and everytime I felt real anger, joy, sadness or fear, I've smothered it.

I've read a lot of stuff people who have been tortured have written, and I realize that is what has been done to me. It's not nice to admit that you have been tortured with abandon, sincerity and spite for 20 years, and probably moreso, since the really early stuff I've tried to forget about (like the real reason for my head injury I strongly suspect I have). Also, my lack of empathy is a little more palatable now, since everytime somebody is speaking about their troubles, I'm secrectly scoffin like "yeah, you think you have it difficult! try me life for a change".

I think I became so emotionally distant since everytime I protested, my mum would tell me that I knew nothing of real suffering, that there were a plenty of kids who were worse off, living in war zones for example, and nowadays I think she was wrong. I had it pretty darn bad. Not to wallow in self-pity, but honestly, no mum should be hell-bent on killing their kids. People don't believe families that bad exist, but they really do. Just so you know.

[SNeacail]

Good for you! Keep us updated as we hope all the best for you!

PS I's like to see you change your tag line to something more positive :D

[Phy]

I couldn't read this without feeling the urge to say 'something'. But I honestly don't know what to say. I am sorry. Sorry for all the suffering and the lost childhood as well as the missing normality you are still struggling with. I hope you will be able to work through this with time and some official help, but after reading this I have to say: I have no idea at all what this must be like. Just wishing for the best outcome possible for you.

[Moonlightrunner]

There's so much here I'd wish I'd known earlier. Wish we'd known. Other than that I don't really know what to say either...

In any case, we ARE still your friends and we're here if you need to talk...

[Arrowbound]

Aw BU...

the only thing I can say is that I'm happy you are facing these phantoms, and with determination. Oftentimes things happen to us and we deal by pushing them down down down until it's almost like they never happened. Then life reminds us that yes, it's all still there. Sending you nothing but hugs and positivity on this new journey.

Whenever you're able, keep us in the loop. I hope you gain some clarity and understanding soon.

[NovemberRain]

oh, BlackUnicorn, that was so beautiful. Welcome to reality. As someone else who crawled over shattered glass to get better, I assure you, someday you will feel better. You will know it was worth it.

I'm so glad to hear you're looking for help, and that you're letting some folks help you, and beginning to learn to help yourself.

My heart goes out to you. <3

[ladyintricate]

BlackUnicorn,

I am so glad to hear that you are doing what you need to do to be safe and work through past scars (and recent ones...). I don't know if you remember me, but I remember you from when I was on here about a year ago.

I can hear in your "voice" that you are an incredibly sensitive and lovable soul. AA is a great place to go for support and to learn more about yourself as well as others.

You deserve to be happy and healthy (emotionally and physically). I send hugs and best wishes to you! Feel free to PM me if you ever want to talk.

[BlackUnicorn]

My stubborn refusal to deal landed me here three weeks ago, but it was for the better. Now they tell me I'm too well for a closed ward, so I might look at going home in two weeks!

Thankyou everyone whose commented or Pmed me. I will answer when I get better. And I do remember everyone, including you Lady. Thank you so much. I'm in recovery now.

[lovefromgirl]

You are alive.

That's the real first step of anything: being alive. Committing to staying that way is the second. Then we get to figure out how to do the rest.

It sounds like you're well on your way. Congratulations. :)

[BlackUnicorn]

I agree, lfag!

I can't sleepzzz and am a little overwrought. I'm so glad I have this blog and this forum.

I have been thinking a lot about marriage and what it means to me. And how I go about things related to marriage and commitment.

I don't have a lot of good rolemodels when it comes to marriage. 90 % of the marriages I've seen are not happy. And by unhappy I mean that the partners are still on talking terma with each other and not actively trying to kill each other.

[BlackUnicorn]

I can participate in other peoples lives but I don't have to go and save them. A little nudge there, a thought here.
If they choose to continue being self - destructive, no amount of tea in China is going to save them from their own destruction. It's sometimes hard but I've had to let them do what they do out of respect for their journey.
Sometimes it's enough when I deal with my own shit first.
Often enough if I just leave them well alone, they miraculously recover, or go into some form of self recovery. All this with the price of just paying attention to me.

[Arrowbound]

I can participate in other peoples lives but I don't have to go and save them. A little nudge there, a thought here.
If they choose to continue being self - destructive, no amount of tea in China is going to save them from their own destruction. It's sometimes hard but I've had to let them do what they do out of respect for their journey.

YES YES YES

I've learned this the hard way on more than one occasion and after feeling of being drained and hung out to dry... no more. I have to deal with my own shit. So does everybody else. I can only do so much, I'm only one person, and I refuse to feel bad about it.

Good on you.

[AnnabelMore]

Yup, that's a really good and important insight.

[BlackUnicorn]

"The journey is mine. I empower myself as a woman and as a spiritual being. No matter who I am."

"If I listen rightly to my inner workings, in time, my spirit will speak the truth."

"I must stop believing all those past reviews, irrespective from whom they came from whom they came from, and most of all, my self-taught self-disliking of me."

[BlackUnicorn]

It's been a while since my last post here, but don't think I've forgotten you guys!

In the meanwhile I've been diagnosed with bipolar type 1. I guess there are worse diagnoses.

I'll probably not be updating terribly often, since at the moment I'm single and dreaming of a nice monogamous relationship for a change, or going solo poly.

[SNeacail]

Nice to hear from you again. Glad to hear your getting things sorted out.

[Arrowbound]

Glad you've arrived at some conclusions, and will able to work with them as you move forward, now that you know what the issues are.

Nice to see you again!