some advice needed

[lvfcs]

I was reading other posts, and was impressed on how many similarities are on peoples experiences, some sound so familiar, you are left wondering if is not your own story :) I'm new to this and as any newbie I'm scared of making mistakes that would hurt those I care for.

What brings me looking for advice is my difficulty on handling how our relationship is now. My boyfriend and wife have been together many years, and started on this just as me, or because of me. But him and I betrayed her trust at the beginning on a single occasion. We all have past trough many situations since then, and have found understanding and forgiveness, but I feel that's something that would haunt me always.

Right now I feel like I can not complain about how it makes me feel that all the times we are together she has to be part of it, when they do get to have time for only them. We try to communicate all the time, but I feel I will have no real say in the matter.

I feel very deeply for him, but I can not help having doubts. Perhaps it's just that I'm not cut out to this sort of relationship?

Any advice would be very welcomed.

Thanks * Lory

[XYZ123]

Welcome.

It doesn't seem fair that you and he don't get any quality time alone when you say you've all put the one act of betrayal behind you.

Are you in a triad (the three of you have a relationship together) or a V (he has a separate relationship with each of you)? Do you spend time alone with her? Have you tried speaking to her about this one on one?

If you are not getting what you need from this relationship it feels more like you're being used to enhance what they have rather than being treated as a separate person with needs and desires of your own. You're being almost forced into the "unicorn" role to be with him when you may not wish to be their unicorn.

[Fidelia]

Hi and welcome to the forum.

Right now I feel like I can not complain about how it makes me feel . . . Why do you feel you do not have a right to be heard? You may be the newest member of the triad, but you didn't cede your rights as a feeling, thinking individual when you became involved with them, did you? You count too. If they love you, they respect you and value your happiness and well-being.

As for past hurts and betrayals: forgiveness frees all parties involved. Learn from the experience, resolve to do better in the future, and give yourself permission to grow past it. If you and he betrayed her trust, you cannot change that. But it sounds like that's not all the history you have together. Have the choices you've made since that time sought to heal what was damaged and regain what was lost? If so, look at the bigger picture and give yourself credit where credit is due.

I feel I will have no real say in the matter. You have a right to have a real say in every matter that effects your life, unless and until you give up that right. In fact, as an adult you have the final say over your life. You also have a right to be respected as a person and to expect that your thoughts and feelings are respected, too.

I feel very deeply for him, but I can not help having doubts. What are your feelings for her? What are your feelings about the whole situation?

It sounds as if perhaps you're putting up with being treated as "less than" for the sake of your feelings for him. If that's the case, only you can change things. And you do that by: 1) deciding what you really want, and 2) making a plan to get it and, 3) putting your plan into action. I know it sounds pretty simple, but in many cases I've learned the hardest part is actually deciding what I really want.

Best of luck to you, whatever you decide to do.

[lvfcs]

Are you in a triad (the three of you have a relationship together) or a V (he has a separate relationship with each of you)? Do you spend time alone with her? Have you tried speaking to her about this one on one?

Thank you XYZ. I'm on a V, only it is not as separate as it might be. I'm an hetero, so even if sexual encounters (and any other kind) are with all parties present, there's no interaction between her and I. That's something she has requested to enter on a poly relationship. So, even if it is unfair to me, am I supposed to accept it because it's a requisite to begging with? I'm not sure how the boundaries work here.

I have not tried to broach the subject with her because I'm not sure if I'm just trying to rush her on accepting things she must not feel ready, or I'm just afraid she might call a halt and I would loose him for good.



You're being almost forced into the "unicorn" role to be with him when you may not wish to be their unicorn.

I honestly do not want to be anyone's unicorn, no matter my feelings for him.


Your insight on how it might look from the outside have helped me a lot! The difficulty about beggining on polyamory is to define what's 'right' or 'wrong' or what's 'normal' or not.

[NeonKaos]

I'm going to be a judgmental ass right now, but I couldn't help reading between the lines so here I go:

Does this man have anything to say all by himself? Judging from what you DON'T say, as opposed to what you DID choose to say, *I* would have to say that your boyfriend needs to grow a backbone and participate mentally as an adult in this, and stop putting you and the other lady in the awkward position of competing for his attention. I will go out on a limb and suggest that he enjoys this on some levels.

That's enough non-sugar-coated commentary from me for now.

[lvfcs]

Thank you Fidelia. Your words have me reflecting on how I've been acting, and why I've been keeping it all inside.

You are right, the hardest part is to decide what it is that I actually want, I'm still debating this with myself.


What are your feelings for her? What are your feelings about the whole situation?
Between her and I there's a growing friendship. I care for her, and do not want to jeopardize this balance by pushing and demanding.


It sounds as if perhaps you're putting up with being treated as "less than" for the sake of your feelings for him.

Perhaps this is just me and it's a missconception on how it really is, but being the new one makes me feel as if my relationship with him and her relationship are not equal. They are the ones that have years and history together, they are the married ones that had to agreed on opening their marriage. And she calls the shots when it comes to how much him and I can do. Is this something every new party has to accept, or do I have it all wrong?

[XYZ123]

And she calls the shots when it comes to how much him and I can do. Is this something every new party has to accept, or do I have it all wrong?

I'll be honest with you, as a married woman, if we opened up to a level where my gf (I am bisexual and was the one at the center of the V) were to be sexually involved with my husband, I'd want to call the shots too. BUT...I wouldn't want to do it in a way that made her feel "less than". It would have to be a sit down with the three of us to discuss everyone's comfort level. She wouldn't be left out of the communication and then simply have the rules dictated to her later. As a V we did this often and her voice was heard and our boundaries as a couple were redefined.

You are an individual with just as many rights and emotions as the two of them. You have a right to know why the rules are in place, express your feelings on them, and ask for what you need. You all need to communicate together for this to work.

[Fidelia]

You are an individual with just as many rights and emotions as the two of them. You have a right to know why the rules are in place, express your feelings on them, and ask for what you need. You all need to communicate together for this to work.

Hear, Hear, XYZ. I couldn't agree more.

And if any of the rules aren't working for you, LV, you have a right to discuss them. And renegotiate your agreements. And/or decide for yourself what you want to do about it.

[River]

The essence of what I want to say here is that polyamory is probably not going to be workable between people who treat people as scarce resources in need of resource allocation protocols. Polyamory is centrally about love and loving, and loving people means treating them very, very well -- as best as we can. And hoarding time or "love" -- or people -- as a scarce resource acquisition procedure is ... utterly absurd. People who are involved in such a dynamic need to wake up and get out of it.

If some husband, wife, parner..., girlfriend or boyfriend..., just doesn't get it and has a tendency to hoard seemingly scarce love/time/whatever... within a supposedly polyamorous (multiply loving) situation ..., they clearly don't know how to dance the polyamory dance, and no amount of Rule Making or posting of rules on walls will sort out that mess.

Basically, love and be loved -- and stay away from those who will turn "love" into a cage, or a treasure to protect in a bank vault. Alternatively, you can hope that the treasure-keeper will change his/her ways. But I'd put a time limit on how much time is worthy of devotion to this hope.

[River]

.... My boyfriend and wife have been together many years, ....

Natuarally, I had to read this several to many times before I realized that you don't have a boyfriend and a wife, but that your boyfriend has a wife.

Perhaps saying " ... my boyfriend and his wife ... " would make it more clear?

[NeonKaos]

Perhaps it's just that I'm not cut out to this sort of relationship?




Upon re-reading the OP, THIS stands out the most.

I don't think it's YOU, hon, it's THEY who are not "cut out" for this lifestyle.

[lvfcs]

I really love you all right now :) I was reluctant at the beginning to post, but the support is unbelievable. I will try to get them to read some other post because each of us have to deal with different issues and seeing how other people deal with their own, gives you a bigger picture.

Sometimes you just need someone from the outside to tell you how it looks. Trying to solve all on your own not always works.

We all got to talk, express fears, desires, give support and understanding, and show that we all want the same at the end, but are only afraid. It was not a nice talk by far, but it it's helping us grow.

It's still the beginning, and there's still a long way ahead, but I would have been silently keeping it all inside if not for you all.


Now I have a new question. How to deal with shared times? Do schedules work? or they take away spontaneity?

[lvfcs]

Sure JRiver! ...my boyfriend and his wife... is way more clear! :) i forgot the multiple possibilties on polyamory, won't happen again :)

[River]

Now I have a new question. How to deal with shared times? Do schedules work? or they take away spontaneity?

The ideal situation, as I see it, is where there seldom arises a need for scheduling togetherness time specifically in order to insure that all members of a couple, trupple, "V", or whatever, feel loved and appreciated and tended to. And I'm convinced that where there is genuine and equal shared love in a grouping that everything should fall together pretty unproblematically--easefully--in this regard.

I'm a part of a couple at the moment, and, of course, Kevin & I do schedule activities -- massage, camping, hiking -- with one another. But I know that he
very much likes to spend time with me; and he knows that I very much like to spend time with him -- so if he schedules a hike with a friend, I don't worry that he likes the friend more than me, or prefers time with that friend to time with me. And that's pretty much how it would be were we a tripple or truple instead of a couple, or if we were a "V", a triad or some other configuration.

Let us say that Kevin meets someone else and forms a loverly relationship with him or her, and they are spending a lot of time with one another. If that brings him joy, then I get to enjoy his joy, which enhances my capacity for joy. If ever I were to feel "left out" or neglected, that's when I'd have to examine whether I am in fact being left out or neglected -- or rather only having some "button" pushed, some trigger of an unhealed past hurt, maybe?

But I'm pretty sure that if Kevin had another loverly partner, I'd like that person a lot, and would trust him/her, and would feel as if I could talk with him/her about my experience of feeling neglected or left out. I could also talk with Kevin about it. And I'm pretty sure we'd work it out, somehow, so that everyone feels cared for and attended to. That's trust. I trust Kevin not to suddenly abandon me or run off and leave me in the dust. He trusts me in this way. So things pretty much go easily, whether or not either of us has another loverly partner. (We've had some brief experience of this with others.)

So I think that the real issues are seldom about quantities of time shared, per se. What Kevin & I have -- which is crucial -- is the KNOWLEDGE that we each love one another. That knowledge allows a depth of trust that allows us to see things in a different light than would be available without this KNOWLEDGE. Of course, like most people, we've both had our trust shaken to its knees by others whom we've trusted similarly, so, of course, we have the residue of that as part of the mix. But the KNOWLEDGE of our mutual love is larger in most moments of most days than the FEAR of re-injury (neglect, unloving, abandonment, etc.).

Now, this KNOWLEDGE is rooted in fact, not fantasy or wish. Those for whom this is not a fact cannot hope to come to this knowledge (not fantasy) -- and so cannot come to this kind of trust and what it allows. It allows us to love others without fear of abandonment, neglect, ... being left in the dust.