cant it be easier?

[flakey]

I am currently married in a monogamous relationship, though I am becoming increasingly unhappy. I still love my wife and even though she has flaws, I still find her an incredible person with many qualities, a beautiful soul. I have always been faithful for years, even living months away from her.

Problem is, she is very jealous, competetive with other females, terrified of me cheating on her, which exherts an unnecessary pressure on me, specially because I am faithful as probably no other man, and I feel like I have to constantly justify myself or be careful that she doesnt see me talking to girls or whatever. If im watching a movie that has a sex scene and she comes in the room, she is already all worried "Is this porn?!".

I told her many times that I wouldnt have a problem if she had something with another person, as long as the person had positive intentions. Nowadays guys are too crude.. But that this is all her decision, if and with who she wants to have sex/have a relationship, that she should do what her conscience tells her.

I believe in that cliche ¨if you love someone, set them free", and I live by it. I dont think I possess her or she posseses me. I think that more people can love each other without being a problem

But she cannot understand it, she says she could never say the same for me, she couldnt stand thinking of me being with another girl and so on.. She said she wouldnt want to be with someone else either.

The point is, I think she isnt necessarily monogamous in her essence either, but she was brought up to believe in, through culture, family and through tv (she always watched typical brainwashing romantic comedies where the myth of the perfect couple is always played). Together with social conditioning, I think the other main factor is a self esteem problem. If she was sure of herself, she wouldnt feel threatened by other women. Its all a pity because this all makes it a problematic relationship, even though exactly without this it would be amazing, because I see how beautiful she is inside and I wish she would see it herself also and be free.

She once, in a rare moment of personal liberation, said she wanted to be with someone else.. Not someone specific, but she would just like to experience someone else. I reiterated what I felt and if she wanted she was free, but her social conditioning of daily life turned her back into saying "I couldnt imagine being with someone else"..


So I think eventually im gonna have to separate from her, at least for some time, but I still will be open to having something throughout my whole life with her if she ever becomes less possessive. I would love to share my life with her, help each other grow, but not being attached and obligated to be only with her, plus all the unnecessary emotional trouble that comes from the unrealistic demands.

Im no don juan who gets all the girls, not the macho tough protective guy that girls normally want... So to find someone else, and on top of it, someone who is open like this, is gonna be tough... You guys think I stand a chance?

Plus, I've never even done this so I dont know in practice how it would work. I love women and am mostly interested in them, do not feel specially attracted thinking of men, but who knows im open to try it sometime if its someone with conscience.. Would love mostly to be with a few enlightened girls that are happy with each other also, but then again, who wouldnt? haha (but of course if they wanted to be with someone else, no prob by me)

What kind of relationship settings did you guys find to work? two couples? triad? more?

Isnt it nearly impossible to find people that meet all the usual criteria plus being poly? Or have more and more people become critical of monogamy?

sorry for the long post, its nice to be able to get this out :)

[redpepper]

Im no don juan who gets all the girls, not the macho tough protective guy that girls normally want... So to find someone else, and on top of it, someone who is open like this, is gonna be tough... You guys think I stand a chance?


Don't sell yourself short my friend. I would totally go for a guy like you. I like your "love them and set them free" nature and that you are able to keep your fidelity and not cheat. You sound very patient, loving and empathetic to your woman's needs. Nope, you would be a great catch!

I am much like your wife in that I was very jealous and protective of my husband. I love him dearly and know he is a great catch in a number of ways.... all of the ones that make you a great catch in fact. He has been very patient, yet persistent to the point where I have to tell him to "get out of here and enjoy yourself, I'm fine!" He thinks I am still struggling, which is better than assuming I'm not!

What worked for me was to hear over and over again what he needs from me and to be reassured over and over again that he is not going to leave and that he loves me and I am his number one. Most of all, why he feels like that. It took years and I still go through some doubts sometimes.... obviously he REALLY loves me or he wouldn't keep at it.

Keep at it, don't stop telling her what you need, even if you think she will break. It is very important to let her go in her jealousy and let her feel it, because there is an end to it and it does lesson. I let myself be in it, swim around in it's murky depths and allowed myself to feel it cover me like oil... it was terrible and very uncomfortable, but worth it in the end.... if she loves you then she will do the same I reckon.

Perhaps she should take a look on here and find some others to have this in common with?

[XYZ123]

Welcome to the forum.

I'm trying to understand. Do you feel you are genuinely poly or do you feel your wife's possessiveness is driving you away from her and towards a more open relationship? Would you be happy in a monogamous relationship with your wife if she would simply relax and let you make friends, talk openly, or (:eek:) watch porn?

Your wife may or may not be monogamous by nature. (Even mono people are capable of fantasizing every so often, though they wouldn't act on it.) But this is not the problem. The problem seems to be her possessive issue. And that usually comes from a self-esteem problem.

I used to be this way with my husband after alot of damage done to me by men in the past. Also, he was poly in the beginning of our relationship (we both were to an extent) and a two year emotional gutting involving a situation with his ex gf after we went mono severely hurt my trust in him. It took a very long time for us to work things out but we're happy and secure now. Does she have reason to be this insecure in your relationship. Has she been through trauma? Have you yourself done something to destroy the trust?

It sounds like you're nearing the end of your rope with this, but hold on just a minute before making radical life changes. Especially if you truly love her and want a life-long loving relationship. How willing is she to open up completely? Have you tried couple's counseling? There seems to be more underlying issues than just the poly/not poly one.

[NeonKaos]

I hate to sound like a cliche, but have you folks tried therapy or couples-counseling?

[Fidelia]

Hi, and welcome to the forum. It sounds like you and your wife are really going through some "stuff." My heart goes out to you both.

My Flakey Friend, I'm going to give it to you straight: your wife is not ready to consider polyamory, and from your description, she’s not going to be ready any time soon. It sounds like she is struggling with some pretty hefty jealousy and control issues, which often stem from deep-seated insecurities and a lack of self-esteem. I urge you not to press the polyamory issue at this time. Rather, if I were in your situation, I would gently and lovingly insist my beloved address the insecurity/self-esteem/jealousy/control issues by whatever means necessary to move him/her toward better mental health, both for his/her own sake and for the sake of our relationship. Counseling and therapy might be very helpful, depending on the root cause(s) of the dysfunction.

So I think eventually im gonna have to separate from her, at least for some time . . . I don’t blame you . I couldn’t live indefinitely under the conditions you describe, either. But give the matter serious thought before you take any action you can’t take back. Like my ol' grandaddy used to say, "Measure twice, cut once."

. . . because I see how beautiful she is inside and I wish she would see it herself also and be free. but she has to be the one who does the work needed to see her own beauty. No one can do it for her. You can encourage her, help her, support her in the difficult challenge, but you cannot fix her problems. Only she can do that. I hope that you will help her and encourage her as she works to find her way to solving these problems.

You sound like an awesome guy. I hope your wife realizes this, and wants to do the work to be happy herself, and to strengthen your marriage. I wish you both peace and joy, whatever you decide to do.

[flakey]

Great replies, thanks a lot this feels very encouraging. :)

Ygirl, we never tried couples therapy, I doubt she would ever try, she's not into psychology (im a psychologist myself, and at first she seemed interested in my 'deeper' conversations but now sometimes it feels she's bothered: "too much philosophy for me" kind of comments), so I think she wouldnt go to one.. I think she would feel ashamed/bothered by the image of her going to some stranger to get council on her relationship, again the self-esteem issue.....

But depending how things continue to develop, I might at least suggest, its at least worth a try right?

RedPepper, kind words :) you are right one should try to reassure the other and be honest.. I have tried doing that throughout our relationship.. Unfortunately lately i've been finding myself thinking more and more about taking a break, about how would it be with someone else (not anybody in specific)... I wouldnt cheat on her, but I dont think its good for me or for her that I live in some inner conflict and pretend she can fulfill me completely..
On the other hand I also dont want give up too soon and then regret this later in life, but then again, I think if its meant to be then she will eventually understand it, maybe not now but at some point, and I will be open to her whenever that day comes

One thing I didnt mention before: I was her first and only man. So being with someone else would be a whole leap for her. I think, though, that it would do her (and our relationship) very good because she would get some perspective on the whole thing, maybe appreciate me more for who I am.

Then, there is one fact which I think she couldnt admit to her family to be with someone else.. They have a very very close relationship, and her family really likes me.. She couldnt tell them she is into polyamory, so if she was with another man either she would have to tell them she ended with me, or she would have to hide from them.. So there's all this pressure on her side which makes it hard for her to open up to poly, (considering she would be into it)

XYZ123, its hard for me to answer your questions because as I mentioned, its still theory for me. But I think if it wasnt for her jealousy, I could maybe live my life with her only, repressing some desires here and there (which would not be such an issue because, as I said, im not a womanizer, only had a few women, so am used to being without anybody). But even though I could live with her without the jealousy, I still think that deep down I am poly (is that how you say? "im poly? "). I feel I have a lot of love to give, and that I could be good to more people (women..?), have some ethical deep relationship with others who would appreciate me and who I could appreciate. So it feels like missing out on these other forms of relationship is like missing some part of life. Who knows though, maybe in practicevwith more people the troubles just multiply ? hehe

as for the other question, no I have never done anything to lose her trust, on the contrary I think... so I dont think its really me the issue, it feels more like things she is projecting in me due to insecurities.

Fidelia, also thanks for your good wishes! You are right im trying not to press the issue but rather deal with her jealousy and general well being of our relationship for now.. We are moving together to a big city soon to a new life, so Im also hoping that this can help us also change our relationship for the better (and also regain the momentum in our sexlife which lately has not been so exciting). I also think that another possibility of improvement would be if she would meet a guy she was very attracted to. I think if she was actually the one to do something, then it would be a breakthrough, but I wonder if that will ever happen.

If not, well, then I think im gonna have to take a break.... I dont want to end the relationship way too late years from now and fighting after long of emotional stresses... I want to always have a good relationship with her (and everybody else), knowing when is the time to be and when is the time not to be, not end as enemies with grudges in the heart. It wont be easy to take this break, our lives have been very deeply interwinned for the last 5 years, but who said life was easy?


Once again, thank you all, I feel very welcomed here :) Any more input is of course greatly appreciated... In any case I feel like im gonna be chatting around this forum a bit more in the future :)

[NeonKaos]

I'm glad you are strong enough to accept that perhaps you may have to seperate.

She sounds monogamous and it also sounds that your relationship started with the expectation of mongamy. I don't see her as possessive at all, I see her as simply expecting what she signed up for.

Best of luck

Yes, Mono, but the parts about being insecure if he's even TALKING to another female person and how she freaks about "is it PORN" suggest to me deeper, more pathological issues at work than simply "monogamy is what I signed up for".

[MonoVCPHG]

I deleted my comment because it was emotionally driven. I'm leaving this one alone :o

[XYZ123]

I've been working towards becoming a psychologist myself. Have my degree in Developmental and hope to get my @$$ back in school after this baby to complete a masters. My husband gets annoyed when I "psychoanalyze" him. But he has come to my therapist with me and found it very helpful to us as a couple. It may be easier for you to both talk to an outside person than it is for her to feel you're using you "head shrinking" (another of hubby's gem) on her. Don't give up on the counseling idea. If she knows it may be the last resort and she wants to keep you, she'll take it.

Beyond that, if it's time you take a break I can't fault you. I drove my husband crazy when I was that insecure and I don't know how he got through it. I wish you the best.

[Quath]

One of the things that is different about polyamory is the treatment of jealousy. It is to be dealt with at the source or else it will become too big of an issue. In monogamy, the symptoms are treated.

Like if you are reading porn and your wife feel jealous by the women in it, a typical eaction is to no longer read the porn (where you couldbe caught). The more poly approach is to talk about why she feels jealous and explain that you see her much differently than the women in the pages (or in a browser). Let her realize that she is not in competition with these women and some of the jealuosy may die down.

I wish you luck.

[redsirenn]

Ok,
I want to post only to say, that in reading your posts you have used the words "i think" in reference to how she feels. This suggests that you do not actually KNOW how she feels.

Even if you leave her and enter into a poly relationship in the future, you will need to work on your communication skills!

TALK with her about ALL of this. Bring up conversations about how you feel, about your insecurities as well (b/c you have them... everyone does :)).

My ex-husband cheated on me... TO THIS DAY I wonder if he had only been able to be honest with me, I could have been able to slowly enter into a poly relationship with him. I think he was poly, but did not know a word for it at the time. I know you are not cheating, but the point is that I would have considered it although he NEVER asked me in a serious manner.

I left him, and it hurt me, not because he had an affair, but because he lied alot.... outwardly, and he "lied by ommission". This is, in effect what you will do, if you don't express all these thoughts you have typed up on this forum.

She is your wife... you say thinks will work out if they are meant to be, but at least try talking to her... and if she isn't responsive the first time, try AGAIN. And AGAIN.

Eventually you have to make the decision for the benefit of your own happiness, but get rid of the "i think" and replace them with "I know".

I wish you luck...

[flakey]

It may be easier for you to both talk to an outside person than it is for her to feel you're using you "head shrinking" (another of hubby's gem) on her. Don't give up on the counseling idea. If she knows it may be the last resort and she wants to keep you, she'll take it.

Beyond that, if it's time you take a break I can't fault you. I drove my husband crazy when I was that insecure and I don't know how he got through it. I wish you the best.

Thank you. You are right that someone from outside can give us a different and possibly enlightening input on this all. I will suggest to her counseling if I see our private talks are not working out. Good luck for you becoming a psychologist :)


One of the things that is different about polyamory is the treatment of jealousy. It is to be dealt with at the source or else it will become too big of an issue. In monogamy, the symptoms are treated.

Like if you are reading porn and your wife feel jealous by the women in it, a typical eaction is to no longer read the porn (where you couldbe caught). The more poly approach is to talk about why she feels jealous and explain that you see her much differently than the women in the pages (or in a browser). Let her realize that she is not in competition with these women and some of the jealuosy may die down.

I wish you luck.

Those were excellent words, I havent thought about it this way. The poly approach is great, thats exactly how I feel. I've been honestly trying to deal with why she is jealous and so on. Just yesterday we had a conversation after she asked me for the nth time if 'she was fat'. I again explained calmly and trying to be supportive, saying that all that is important is to be healthy and happy with oneself, and that for my part I think she is beautiful.

She is just not one of those people with super skinny body-types, but I've told her that each person has their own characteristics and that she is judging herself by comparing with other girls she sees on tv or advertisement or women magazine. I said that she isnt in competition with anybody, that I love her, that she is beautiful and that instead of complaining she is fat, she should just make her part and eat healthy/moderately (which she generally does anyways) and be active/make exercise. If one has a clear conscience, then there is no need for comparison, because one feels happy when being healthy and working towards fulfilling one's potential, instead of trying to match up to some abstract unreal image.

She seemed to listen, as she did other times, but I dont know if anything substantial will change.. In the end she said: 'yeah its easy for you to say when you are so skinny', to which I replied that yes im skinny but for men its different. Im too skinny for the stereotypical man, so I would also be unhappy if I was comparing myself to models, but Im not, because I know I eat well and do exercise, and I was born with this body so I have to accept it. She nodded and then changed subject. Each person has a limit of how much they can take of criticism/suggestions, so I didnt want to push it more and just let her be.. I am trying, though... Lets see

Ok,
I want to post only to say, that in reading your posts you have used the words "i think" in reference to how she feels. This suggests that you do not actually KNOW how she feels.

Even if you leave her and enter into a poly relationship in the future, you will need to work on your communication skills!

TALK with her about ALL of this. Bring up conversations about how you feel, about your insecurities as well (b/c you have them... everyone does :)).

My ex-husband cheated on me... TO THIS DAY I wonder if he had only been able to be honest with me, I could have been able to slowly enter into a poly relationship with him. I think he was poly, but did not know a word for it at the time. I know you are not cheating, but the point is that I would have considered it although he NEVER asked me in a serious manner.

I left him, and it hurt me, not because he had an affair, but because he lied alot.... outwardly, and he "lied by ommission". This is, in effect what you will do, if you don't express all these thoughts you have typed up on this forum.

She is your wife... you say thinks will work out if they are meant to be, but at least try talking to her... and if she isn't responsive the first time, try AGAIN. And AGAIN.

Eventually you have to make the decision for the benefit of your own happiness, but get rid of the "i think" and replace them with "I know".

I wish you luck...

Thank you for your input :)

You are absolutely right I should keep trying and trying, and I will continue this for as long as we are together.. I think in a relationship one must try until the end, because if one gives up before, then its a lost battle and would be better to just quit the whole thing.. Its just a pity that lately the 'im gonna separate' side has been becoming more and more a real possibility, even though the trying continues.

By the way, when you mention I say too much "I think", its not so much because I dont feel like I know, but more a prudence. We humans with our limited little brains and our subjective illusions are too sure about everything, so I'd rather say that 'its possible' or 'I think', than 'I know' or 'this is like this'.

and one last thing: You are also very right that nobody is perfect and that nobody is free from insecurities, though I think in general at least in this relationship her insecurities are being more of a trouble to me/us than mine are being to her/us.

[NeonKaos]

Just yesterday we had a conversation after she asked me for the nth time if 'she was fat'. I again explained calmly and trying to be supportive, saying that all that is important is to be healthy and happy with oneself, and that for my part I think she is beautiful.

She is just not one of those people with super skinny body-types, but I've told her that each person has their own characteristics and that she is judging herself by comparing with other girls she sees on tv or advertisement or women magazine. I said that she isnt in competition with anybody, that I love her, that she is beautiful and that instead of complaining she is fat, she should just make her part and eat healthy/moderately (which she generally does anyways) and be active/make exercise. If one has a clear conscience, then there is no need for comparison, because one feels happy when being healthy and working towards fulfilling one's potential, instead of trying to match up to some abstract unreal image.




"No, honey, you're NOT fat."

[OneSoul]

Dint get a chance to read beyon your first post.

Reminds me of ME & my thoughts & feelings for this girl. Gave her my life, sacrificed career, friends & other girl opportunities. She'd be insecure about me & me finding other women... etc and instead I REMAINED Faithful and she cheated on me tons.

Talk about insecurity & emotional drama & bipolar swings. It took 7 years for the drama to finally end with me broken & disillusioned about life, trust, love & faith. But im glad its over.

U want more details.. ask :)

[Quath]

"No, honey, you're NOT fat."
That is a land mine. I have tried that before and got, "I thought you valued honesty. How can you say I am not fat?" (Previous girlfriend.) My stratitude is to pull a political maneuver and move away from the subject like, "Wow... ummm... You know that the mayo clinic has done a study on.... LOOK a squirrel!" Then run...

[NeonKaos]

That is a land mine. I have tried that before and got, "I thought you valued honesty. How can you say I am not fat?" (Previous girlfriend.) My stratitude is to pull a political maneuver and move away from the subject like, "Wow... ummm... You know that the mayo clinic has done a study on.... LOOK a squirrel!" Then run...

Then she's playing mind games, that's all.

I can't stand women who do that. If she thinks she's fat and you don't, HOW is that being "not honest" on your part.

I'd just be all like, fine, you're fat then, so go on a diet and get more exercise. If that doesn't work, maybe you should have your doctor check for a tumor on your pituitary gland.

I just don't understand this body-image problem lots of women seem to have. I realize that mass-media and pop-culture have programmed us with certain things that we have no choice over as small children, but FCOL get a grip, we're grownups now, we can choose to be ignorant and unsatisfied or we can confront our fears and insecurities and rise above them.

I have very little patience for drama over things that are semantically constructed and/or completely under our control or resulting from the choices we make.

[XYZ123]

Talk about insecurity & emotional drama & bipolar swings.

Not to attack on your first post, but you're standing on a landmine my friend. As far as I'm concerned. Was this woman ACTUALLY bipolar or are you just labeling her as such? Because...I'm about as bipolar as you can get and I am quite capable of monitoring myself and maintaining healthy relationships. I hate when people say "s/he's being bipolar" when they're not. Because it stigmatizes people like me who put ALOT of effort into controlling the disease.

[NeonKaos]

Not to attack on your first post, but you're standing on a landmine my friend. As far as I'm concerned. Was this woman ACTUALLY bipolar or are you just labeling her as such? Because...I'm about as bipolar as you can get and I am quite capable of monitoring myself and maintaining healthy relationships. I hate when people say "s/he's being bipolar" when they're not. Because it stigmatizes people like me who put ALOT of effort into controlling the disease.

Sometimes, the term "bipolar" is used to describe when a person just can't make up their mind or keeps sending mixed messages. Those things MAY be true of some folks who ARE bipolar, but doing those behaviour patterns doesn't mean someone IS bipolar.

[XYZ123]

And sometimes people who do stupid things are called "retarded". It doesn't mean they ARE retarded. But I'm sure true MR people don't appreciate stupidity being linked with retardation. Stupidity can be helped, retardation cannot. Indecisiveness and bitchiness can be helped, bipolar cannot.

Sorry. I don't have many big red DO NOT PUSH buttons. But this is one. And I'm not in any mood to have someone poking about by it right now. Unmedicated with pregnancy hormones raging through me and a needy child 24-7. I am on a tight leash....grrrrr

[NeonKaos]

Unmedicated with pregnancy hormones raging through me and a needy child 24-7. I am on a tight leash....grrrrr

Ya, I was thinking about how hard that must be.

[Fidelia]

. . . she asked me for the nth time if 'she was fat'. . . .

Oh! Oh! Heads up, y’all. There is a RIGHT ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION! And my precious Hubby found it. But I don’t wanna hijack this thread, so I’ll start a new one.

PS to XYZ123: Be strong, SisterWoman. I hope your day improves. :)

[NeonKaos]

Oh! Oh! Heads up, y’all. There is a RIGHT ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION! And my precious Hubby found it. But I don’t wanna hijack this thread, so I’ll start a new one.



You might want to bottle that and sell it before you give it away for free.

What else are you hiding from the rest of us, a cure for the common cold, perhaps?

[XYZ123]

Lol. Thanks. I will be ok all. :cool: This forum helps when I can't handle "real" people.
*love*

Back to your regularly scheduled thread.....

[OneSoul]

Not to attack on your first post, but you're standing on a landmine my friend. As far as I'm concerned. Was this woman ACTUALLY bipolar or are you just labeling her as such? Because...I'm about as bipolar as you can get and I am quite capable of monitoring myself and maintaining healthy relationships. I hate when people say "s/he's being bipolar" when they're not. Because it stigmatizes people like me who put ALOT of effort into controlling the disease.

Do you think I'd want you to have issues with your wife? No.

I've spent 1.5-2 years on a spiritual path.. lots of meditation, guidance, and have a crazy strong intuition now.

I am not labeling your wife anything. I could detail out my 7 years with this woman... and share with you what I learned. But my short reading...

(Suicidal, Always insecure, No friends, Lack of Deservedness, Were UNAWARE of herself (U seem to be aware / self monitoring), ...Insecure.. Very negative connotations / jumping to conclusions.. If someting happened X.. She'd take out interpretation in a very negative way about those people.. and then flip flop on her opinions about them.. I realized she used to do the same with me... to others.. Complain about one to the other.. Funky think... I NEVER told anyone anything bad about her.. I accepted her issues as something I'll love & help her grow out of..)

Any person who is in constant fear of you finding someone else or are you having an affair with someone else... suffers from major insecurity.. & deservedness issues..
Probably because of some previous / childhood experience...

All the things you outlined about her.. every small item.. its like a copy of my ex.

Its weird that I should even read & comment on your post. But its like what you are doing is a copy of me.. and what she is doing & saying is a copy of her.

I kept trying with open love.. Funny that I used the same line..
"love & let go" ... Let someone be free...

I paid for my stupidity and my unconditional, unwavering love, trust & faith.. :) I should've seen the signs.

Someone cannot love or be happy with another unless they are happy being alone.. being themselves ...self love.

I was too loving & trusting & open minded. She was insecure, and lacked sense of deservedness and socially conditioned for 'nice' girl but instinctively driven to a guy / guys for validation. Always afraid I'd leave her for someone else.. always asking me if i've found a new girl friend. I never did .. but she would throw herself on any male who gave her attention.

As long as you keep being the one GIVING HER ATTENTION... I think you're safe.

BUT if you really want to help her.. She has to BE WANT TO BE HELPED & HEALED out of her INSECURITY & LACK OF DESERVEDNESS. (If at all..)

I worked on her a lot.. to help.. but those that do not want to HEAL or be HELPED.. Cannot be.. Hope you have better luck.

PS: You can totally ignore what I have said.. Sorry if I may have hurt you in any way.. I went through a ton of lies & hurt.. I'm clean of it now.. and can see the whole thing in a clear light.

[OneSoul]

Oh! Oh! Heads up, y’all. There is a RIGHT ANSWER TO THIS QUESTION! And my precious Hubby found it. But I don’t wanna hijack this thread, so I’ll start a new one.

PS to XYZ123: Be strong, SisterWoman. I hope your day improves. :)

I hope she's not asking the following.. a lot of times

"You're not attracted to me anymore and are seeing someone else".

[OneSoul]

Yes, Mono, but the parts about being insecure if he's even TALKING to another female person and how she freaks about "is it PORN" suggest to me deeper, more pathological issues at work than simply "monogamy is what I signed up for".

I've seen it. Been through it. Was too clean hearted, loving, trusting & god faith driven to not give up on my ex.. lol.. I figured I could make her grow out of it...

[XYZ123]

OneSoul- I'm not the original poster. I am a female with bipolar disorder who was a bit ruffled with your labeling this apparently emotionally unstable person as bipolar. And, from what you described, your ex suffered from maybe anxiety, depression, poor body image, abuse, a persecution complex, etc. Bipolar is about highs and lows to be very simple. Too high and too low.

As far as the rest, yeah, anyone who needs help has to want it for it to work.

[OneSoul]

OneSoul- I'm not the original poster. I am a female with bipolar disorder who was a bit ruffled with your labeling this apparently emotionally unstable person as bipolar. And, from what you described, your ex suffered from maybe anxiety, depression, poor body image, abuse, a persecution complex, etc. Bipolar is about highs and lows to be very simple. Too high and too low.

As far as the rest, yeah, anyone who needs help has to want it for it to work.

Oh!.. Well.. From what I have read, learnt and know about Bipolar disorder.. It makes people swing high low super fast.. One moment happy and another suicidal. And extremely unaware that this is happening to them.

I've seen that pattern big time in 2-3 women. So, maybe you do not fall into the general characteristics of Biploar disorder.. Just the same way you do not fall into say any generalized label "women who're crazy for prada" etc.

PS: Question you have to ask yourself and not me is, why do you feel offended when someone talks about another person who is Bipolar and totally disconnected from you, when you yourself know that you are an exception in the so called Bipolar "characteristics"? Are you taking on a negative connotation just by your own association with the word? You feel like you are being targeted? You are being defensive and have to take up the defense for ever person with BiPolar.. however diverse each may be.
PPS: I am extremely non judgmental. To the point I've even compassionately forgiven someone who literally destroyed my life.. But then again.. Everything has a purpose in life..

[NeonKaos]

PS: Question you have to ask yourself and not me is, why do you feel offended when someone talks about another person who is Bipolar and totally disconnected from you, when you yourself know that you are an exception in the so called Bipolar "characteristics"? Are you taking on a negative connotation just by your own association with the word? You feel like you are being targeted? You are being defensive and have to take up the defense for ever person with BiPolar.. however diverse each may be.
PPS: I am extremely non judgmental. To the point I've even compassionately forgiven someone who literally destroyed my life.. But then again.. Everything has a purpose in life..

XYZ didn't say she is an exception. She said she is "as bipolar as you can get". You need to stop misquoting her and then responding to those misquoted items. I am sensing quite a bit of belligerence from the your most recent post.


XYZ - PM someone such as myself if you feel inclined to be "defensive" as suggested above. You don't need the aggravation right now.

[XYZ123]

Ok. Let me try this again since you are obviously not getting it. One more time from the top.

I have bipolar disorder. I suffer from bipolar 1 with both manic and depressive symptoms. To the high I have actually hallucinated and lost time and to the low I have attempted suicide. I am in no way an "exception". I am as bipolar as a person can get and manage to live life outside hospital walls. I only manage to live life because I have done alot of work in becoming self aware of my symptoms, learned to ask for help, and sought out therapy and medication. And I manage healthy, reciprocal, loving relationship on various levels better than many "normal" people I know.

I am not upset at you discussing "bipolar people" nor do I feel "targeted". I am upset when someone labels an unstable person who has no formal diagnosis as bipolar and then lists many very negative traits to describe this person. It's no different than when a woman kills her children and the first thing people start saying is "she must be bipolar". As if all bipolars are just monsters lurking in human skin waiting for the next psycho mood swing. You have no idea the work I've had to do to get people to not see me that way. Unless you are a psychologist (which I'm halfway through studying to become BTW) please do not "read a book" and feel you can label people and have no one offended by it. I do not "take up the defense" of every bipolar person. There are actually several I know personally and dislike because they refuse to do anything about it. If she is diagnosed as bipolar, carry on. However, if she is not, just please drop the labeling. This is all I ask.

As far as how "compassionate" you are, you seem to mention this alot. If you have forgiven her for all her wrongdoing and cruelty to you, why is every post in every thread you write dripping with how horrible she was and how wonderful you are? You are certainly not showing any compassion to me, nor are you even quoting me correctly. Maybe you need to work on communication. :confused:

(Yes, that last paragraph was just being snippy. This is the first time anything on this forum has made me angry. :mad:)

[Fidelia]

Dear friends and companions on the poly road:

Flakey is in serious distress and has asked for our help. May I please, with respect to all concerned parties, suggest that discussions not related to the OP be moved to another thread, or to PM's.


I've spent 1.5-2 years on a spiritual path.. lots of meditation, guidance, and have a crazy strong intuition now. At the risk of sounding flippant, I must point out that your "crazy strong intuition" confused the distressed husband with the bipolar woman who is


Unmedicated with pregnancy hormones raging through me and a needy child 24-7. I am on a tight leash....grrrrr

What does your crazy strong intuition hope to accomplish by continuing this exchange?

I would think that compassion, forgiveness, and love would better serve all concerned.

[Fidelia]

As for your wife's family, Flakey, I wouldn't necessarily be too terribly concerned. I have learned not to underestimate people's ability to overlook things that don't fit into their worldview. One example: I live next door to my straight-laced, conservative, religious mother and grandmother. My Hubby is an Edenist, which among other things means he tends to be nude at home unless it is too cold or there are children present. Mother didn't bat an eye when she found out. Grandma was amused and curious! And it didn't change our relationship at all, except that they ALWAYS call before they come over. Which of course is all to the good.

So unless your in-laws actually catch one of you coming out of the bedroom with a new partner, you can probably work out a solution to the "family" issue.

[OneSoul]

Point made Fidelia. :)

The only reason I posted was when I read this thread I was shocked to find it match up word for word what I had been through with the ex & her patterns. Its as if he was describing ME & HER.

PS: I am not doing any straight off "bipolar" judgement on anyone. I dont know about mentally unstable women who killed her children etc. I used the word based on my assessment of the woman I was with & all the traits outlined here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

Compassion & forgiveness does not mean that one repeat mistakes and let others fall into the same trap.

I forgave her 3 times for cheating on me & stayed with her. 4th time forgiveness after having broken up was done via compassion.. knowing that she is a victim of insecurity from her past. Compuslive lying for 7 years.. It burns you. For a long time I hated her guts.. But I've since realized its just baggage I have to carry... So forgiveness & compassion were in order.

"Before you enter the temple, You must forgive" - Jesus (...I think I read this in the Power of Now)

My goal was to help the gentleman by sharing a RELATED experience with a very SIMILAR girl. I dont see any point in arguing about the term "bipolar". I am no doctor..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder (I based my assessment on this).

Love love.

[OneSoul]

XYZ didn't say she is an exception. She said she is "as bipolar as you can get". You need to stop misquoting her and then responding to those misquoted items. I am sensing quite a bit of belligerence from the your most recent post.


XYZ - PM someone such as myself if you feel inclined to be "defensive" as suggested above. You don't need the aggravation right now.

Ok. Let me try this again since you are obviously not getting it. One more time from the top.

I have bipolar disorder. I suffer from bipolar 1 with both manic and depressive symptoms. To the high I have actually hallucinated and lost time and to the low I have attempted suicide. I am in no way an "exception". I am as bipolar as a person can get and manage to live life outside hospital walls. I only manage to live life because I have done alot of work in becoming self aware of my symptoms, learned to ask for help, and sought out therapy and medication. And I manage healthy, reciprocal, loving relationship on various levels better than many "normal" people I know.

I am not upset at you discussing "bipolar people" nor do I feel "targeted". I am upset when someone labels an unstable person who has no formal diagnosis as bipolar and then lists many very negative traits to describe this person. It's no different than when a woman kills her children and the first thing people start saying is "she must be bipolar". As if all bipolars are just monsters lurking in human skin waiting for the next psycho mood swing. You have no idea the work I've had to do to get people to not see me that way. Unless you are a psychologist (which I'm halfway through studying to become BTW) please do not "read a book" and feel you can label people and have no one offended by it. I do not "take up the defense" of every bipolar person. There are actually several I know personally and dislike because they refuse to do anything about it. If she is diagnosed as bipolar, carry on. However, if she is not, just please drop the labeling. This is all I ask.

As far as how "compassionate" you are, you seem to mention this alot. If you have forgiven her for all her wrongdoing and cruelty to you, why is every post in every thread you write dripping with how horrible she was and how wonderful you are? You are certainly not showing any compassion to me, nor are you even quoting me correctly. Maybe you need to work on communication. :confused:

(Yes, that last paragraph was just being snippy. This is the first time anything on this forum has made me angry. :mad:)



YGirl - I am no psychologist or doctor. The collective traits of what I have observed & endured with the Ex are what I found under the Bipolar umbrella.

In the end Bipolar is just a word that implies X number of characteristics. Not everyone may or may not have the same charcaters.

I am not doing clinical diagnosis nor trying to put my argument over yours.. You can definitely know more about Bipolar than me.. But I know little..
That little is clear in terms of what I have identified.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder

Should I outline the specific examples of what all the lady from my life did in 7 years....? That would be hard. Way too many things to point out.

I chose the closest word that I could to capture that.

We live in a world of labels. They dont mean anything. They just imply generalizations.
About dropping the Bipolar label? .. Find me a better one that encompasses all the characters I've identified on this page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bipolar_disorder and I will use it.

I apologize for my limited vocabulary as well as offending you as a side-effect.

On one hand there is XYZ who is seeking help for herself and aware of herself and treating herself. Which is a good thing.

On the other hand there was my Ex who no matter how much myself or anyone tried to help, she would just not want any. Did not want to grow out of it.

Was she medically diagnosed as bipolar? I dont know. In the country where this happened not many people go to shrinks.
I think she might have.. But its something her or her family would never bring up.

Given how naive & simple minded I was at the time.. It was stupid of me to love & trust like I did.

But whats funny is my spiritual journey has helped me come to terms with accepting who she was and why she was that way. I hope & pray that she grows out of it (whatever IT is.. BiPo or Manic Dep.. etc) someday like you are doing... helping yourself.

Would I go through the same again? NO.
Would I warn someone going through the same again? ... YES.

That is the point of this discussion... Not the term Bipolar and/ or what connotations it implies.

That is why I posted.

[XYZ123]

Fidelia, you are correct. :o I am now really angry, but that was NOT what this post was about and I will ignore the one offending me. Thank you for bringing me back to being a sensible adult.

Flakey, please forgive me for the hijack. You came for support and I went a whole other direction. Has any progress been made with your wife in the last few days? Have you been able to talk to her about anything? I did want to ask if you ever tried to address these issues when you weren't in the middle of having them? What I mean is, when she isn't on the offensive or defensive, have you said "honey, we need to talk" and let her know how her insecurity and baited questions make you feel? If the only discussion comes DURING a problematic episode, it is already colored and led by negative emotions and will probably inevitably end up a fight with both parties hurt.

Please don't be scared away by the off topic tangent. There are many great people on here than can offer advice, see both sides (usually someone will), and show true compassion for others.

[flakey]

hey :)

no problem about the hijack, Im happy this thread served for other people to be able to express themselves...

As for my case.. poly discussion is off for the moment, I decided its not really the moment, we've been going through a lot, also moving to a new place and other changes in life. I felt for the moment it would be inapropriate and just selfish, so better wait a bit.

But I did have some good talks with her in general, about insecurities, about trying to enjoy each moment more, valuing each other, as well as about her dominance aspects, which she did express being sorry and promissed she will try to change.

Also our sex life last week picked up a little momentum again, which was a plus.

So overall as you can see it has gotten better in the relationship sense in general, but poly subject is still at hold. It keeps being in the back of my mind, and I am really curious how it would be to be able to be with someone else, share love with other people who would appreciate and all that. So now its on hold but I dont think its going away anymore

Of course as our human minds work, if Im honest, I can see there is some sexual energy behind, wanting to be with others, fantasizing and so on. But I really really think its not just this, that its not something that would be 'solved' with sex but that I deeply feel like sharing life with other beautiful souls out there.. In fact, its almost as if it feels like NOT being poly would be a waste for the world haha :)

[XYZ123]

Glad to see things are looking up. It is probably best to keep the poly talk on hold until she works through other issues she apparently has. To begin the conversations now may only scare her or anger her back into her jealous, insecure ways. You know her best and you can judge when and if she will be ready better than any of us.

But in the end you may have to make a choice, if she is completely mono, her or living a poly life. I hope it doesn't come to that as I'm a fan of everyone getting their "happily ever after". But I suppose that's a choice that can be put off for now. Good luck.

[OneSoul]

Good luck :)

Everything in life stems from ... Love of something (desire, want, need, craving etc) or Fear of something.. (fear, insecurity, anxiety etc)

The more you guys shift in the direction of Love being the motivator of things in your life v/s fears.. :)

[River]

Good luck :)

Everything in life stems from ... Love of something (desire, want, need, craving etc) or Fear of something.. (fear, insecurity, anxiety etc)


OneSoul,

While attraction and repulsion, desire and aversion, fear and longing, etc., obviously play a crucial role in how most of us experience love, I think it would be very sad to define love in terms of these polarities. I would not define love as simply a matter of one end of this attraction/repulsion dynamic.

Love can also be understood as appreciation. Appreciation is a kind of joy, and this joy needn't depend on the attraction/repulsion dynamic. The best and happiest kinds of loving experience transcend the attraction/repulsion dynamic and amount to an overflowing of appreciation for the other--or even for existence (being) itself. One can even be ecstatically moved by simply being, and moved to the heights of love by simply breathing.

[OneSoul]

OneSoul,

While attraction and repulsion, desire and aversion, fear and longing, etc., obviously play a crucial role in how most of us experience love, I think it would be very sad to define love in terms of these polarities. I would not define love as simply a matter of one end of this attraction/repulsion dynamic.

Love can also be understood as appreciation. Appreciation is a kind of joy, and this joy needn't depend on the attraction/repulsion dynamic. The best and happiest kinds of loving experience transcend the attraction/repulsion dynamic and amount to an overflowing of appreciation for the other--or even for existence (being) itself. One can even be ecstatically moved by simply being, and moved to the heights of love by simply breathing.

Now, that my friend is TRUE LOVE. TRUE BLISS. TRUE GRATITUDE. TRUE GRACE. TRUE BEING. EACH MOMENT...

That love is barely understood or even ever felt by most.

Here I mentioned the love/fear dynamic / motivator thats most prevalent in the everyday life of most people and drives them to ... (relevant to this couple & insecurities if any)
... love going to work.. love my work...
... have to go to work for paycheck... fear of survival (at various levels)
.. guiding child.. love of child..
.. coercing child... fear of child going astray..

Very thin border line.. between the two... Only self awareness of whats driving is the beginning point

But whats funny is the TRANSCENDED LOVE (True Love) is what really brings more of the LOVE SHIFT as compared to the FEAR MOTIVATOR SHIFT.

[River]

The journey I'm now on is simple. Perhaps not easy, but simple. I have known emersion in the eternal love-joy-bliss of what some call "spirit," some call "God-realization," and others know by infinite other names -- which do not concern me (I despise all theology!). But momentary emersion in such "states," though they may illuminate, can only cause what we may call homesickness in those who have been dipped into these momentary experiences only to find themselves shipwrecked in what appears to be radically other -- what appears to be homelessness.

To know from memory (as contrasted with present-moment experience) that infinite love permeates the very heart of existence is ... a paltry thing.

And I am human, and my obvious task is to live what I have been touched by at the "innermost" heart of my heart -- for I live in forgetting, as perhaps most of us do.

This living of this truth I've tasted and which has shipwrecked me means eschewing all false gifts and hopes that keep my hands too full to receive the deeper message of these now past experiences. So it's a paring down and paring back process. Self importance must go, but with precision -- the precision which allows also, self love, and in terms of my uniqueness, my individuality, my personhood. I know this -- but not enough, not deeply enough. Not enough to have a full and infinite breath.

We who have been rocked by the Universe, touched by some Mysterious Infinite, need take care that we don't become inflated by this gift. We need to realize both sides of humility (to be neither too important or special nor too little) all the way into the heart of our hearts. There are only gifts on this poor, poor Earth. All are welcome. All are love. The Teacher is Everywhere.