Meditation

[River]

I've been sporadically practicing meditation for some years. In recent weeks and months I'm committing to more regular sitting. Today I had a kind of breakthrough. I was taking my meditation as medicine, a slightly unpaletable medicine. (Please forgive typos or misspellings; I'm too lazy to google www.dictionary.com right now). And now I'm really starting to enjoy just sitting there attending to breath and sensation while letting go of chasing after thoughts. It's starting to get restful, peaceful -- even fun, exciting -- an adventure.

And you?

[River]

Breathing ...

Yesterday morning: The new zafu and zabuton (Japanese words for stacked sitting cushions) certainly make sitting upright, spine aligned with gravity, more comfortable and easeful. Anyone who's ever practiced mindfulness on the breath, with the instruction just to watch or attend to the breath, will have noticed at some time that that's not so easy at first. It's an attitude and practice of just allowing and attending, not of affecting, forcing, causing. It's a fascinating fact that breathing is both voluntary and involuntary. One needn't choose to breath for breath to happen, yet it can be difficult to attend carefully to the breath without influencing it. (Try, find out for yourself.)

So I chose to play -- as often I do when sitting. To mix things up a little. To find my own way. And so I attended in a non-interfering sort of way for a while. And then I started choosing deeper, carefully attended to breaths. Fuller, deeper. Where does it go, what muscles are involved? How does that feel? How is gravity involved here? What emotions, however subtle, arise? And so on. Already I had come to a sort of calm, an ease, a quietness. Why not explore it? Gently.

I could feel the front of my body behaving as armor, as a shield. It was saying a kind of silent "no". It's "no" was felt as a dullness, a moving away from vitality, vulnerability, feeling, tenderness..., all those things I want. Or so I tell myself. So I decided to play like this: Can I say "yes"? "Yes" with my body where it said "no"? Can I breathe to say "yes"? Breathe directly into those places in my body which are saying "no"? I could! I did.

I felt the whole front of my body, the face of my facing of life, saying "yes!" I felt the knot behind my heart, in my back, also loosten its grip. I felt a calm joy, physical pleasure. And I knew I need not ever be bored with sitting still like this. This may be medicine, but it needn't be imagined as bitter, a chore in need of doing. It needn't be a strain, an effort against the river or the wind.

[Somegeezer]

I have no idea what you're talking about in your second post.

I do like the idea of meditation though. I've tried it a few times. I would like to try it more often. I have no idea why I don't. It feels great. I think maybe if I had someone to do it with, it would be a lot easier to push myself to do it often.

[SchrodingersCat]

I like to do yoga for meditation. Well, it's not exactly the same thing, but I think it has a lot of the same effects. We always start in constructive rest position, which involves tuning in to your body and becoming aware of it.

The reason I prefer yoga over sitting meditation is that my mind gets restless and bored when I meditate. I know, I know, that's the whole point of meditating, but right now I just have too much trouble getting there on my own. I find that with yoga, I still stop thinking about life and thinking in general, and start to focus on alignment and the present moment.

I do Iyengar yoga, which uses props and is slower paced with held poses more than flowing from one pose to another. I've done faster yoga and I find that I never get the proper alignment in one pose before we're moving on to something else.

We often sit either on foam blocks or bolsters, allowing our pelvis to roll so that we're sitting on the front of the sitting bones. This helps keep the spine long and straight.

It's truly amazing how much of a change I've experience since I started doing yoga. The whole rest of my life has seen benefit, I'm calmer and more relaxed, I don't get anxious or worried as often, I do homework with a good attitude rather than as a chore. Even my test marks went up. My whole mind is just more focused.

[River]

I have no idea what you're talking about in your second post.

It's about the practice of mindfulness on the body (as breath), which is the foundation and heart of Buddhist meditation. It may be that you have no idea what I'm talking about because you've not sat still and payed careful, extended, attention to your own breathing. It may sound like a silly thing to do, an absurd waste of time, but the practice has had powerful healing and transformational affect on lots of people. Check out Jack Kornfield's little book, Meditation for Beginners. (I think I have that title right.)

[River]

I like to do yoga for meditation. Well, it's not exactly the same thing, but I think it has a lot of the same effects.

Well, I'd say LOTS of things can be done meditatively, though not all meditation is sitting meditation (stillness meditation in a sitting position). Lots of movement arts are practiced meditatively, and are very helpful and have much the same kind of affects.

I think hatha yoga is a great compliment to sitting practice, and vice versa. (Regular sitting will re-align the spine in lots of folks, and strenghening certain muscles in the torso will certainly make sitting go easier!) Tai chi, chi gung, massage/bodywork, psychotherapy..., and other practices are also complimentary, I feel.

[Somegeezer]

I understood the breathing thing. I've always done that. Focusing on your pulse is another good way. I just didn't understand a lot of the words. Maybe I was not reading carefully enough, but it just didn't make sense to me. Meditation is certainly very helpful though. I try to do it more and more.

[River]

.... I just didn't understand a lot of the words. Maybe I was not reading carefully enough, but it just didn't make sense to me.

Or maybe I wasn't writing carefully enough. What I wrote was a quick sketchy thing meant just to convey where I'm at at the moment in my practice of mindfulness on the breath--which as I said is a very basic Buddhist meditation practice. I'm blending various techniques into a sitting, so I don't exclusively focus on breath. I allow shifts away from breath as a focus to other bodily sensations and awareness. Including emotional stuff (which is very bodily). It's possible (I can't say!) that you may have lots of somatic self-awareness, or very little. People with very little such awareness may have trouble knowing what I said, or why -- especially if they are not engaged in a similar type of meditation practice.

A lot of folks imagine / think that meditation is all about attempting to "stop thoughts". This just isn't so. It's a common misunderstanding. I do, however, think that compulsive thoughts become fewer and fewer with more and more practice.

How do you practice? For how long have you practiced? Have you had benefits?

[Somegeezer]

Or maybe I wasn't writing carefully enough. What I wrote was a quick sketchy thing meant just to convey where I'm at at the moment in my practice of mindfulness on the breath--which as I said is a very basic Buddhist meditation practice. I'm blending various techniques into a sitting, so I don't exclusively focus on breath. I allow shifts away from breath as a focus to other bodily sensations and awareness. Including emotional stuff (which is very bodily). It's possible (I can't say!) that you may have lots of somatic self-awareness, or very little. People with very little such awareness may have trouble knowing what I said, or why -- especially if they are not engaged in a similar type of meditation practice.

A lot of folks imagine / think that meditation is all about attempting to "stop thoughts". This just isn't so. It's a common misunderstanding. I do, however, think that compulsive thoughts become fewer and fewer with more and more practice.

How do you practice? For how long have you practiced? Have you had benefits?
You probably wrote it fine. I often find myself not understand what people have said. Even reading over it a million times, I can still miss the point entirely. I have no idea why or how to "fix" that.

I never thought of meditation as stopping thoughts. When I do it, I just feel so relaxed and inside a bubble with just myself. I first started when I was young. I just wanted to try it and see what it did. Why people did it. I think everyone has their own reasons for doing it and gets something diffrerent from it too.

benefits... I'm not sure exactly why or how, but I just feel better doing it. Feel like I gain something each time. No idea what it is or why it makes me feel good though.

I don't do it that often like I said though. I might do it more often, but there are many things I do to feel good.

Computer games are another one of those things I enjoy doing. I get immersed in it and could sit there for hours in an almost trance like state playing. It's very engaging. Music is another. From the heaviest of Metal, to the most soothing of Ambient. Ambient music is actually really good to have on when I meditate too. I start daydreaming a lot with it.

[Karma]

I found your comment about "mindful breathing" to be familiar, River. It's something that I was taught to do/use in martial arts - not just mindful breathing, but being mindful of all the bodies movements.

[River]

I'd heard that about martial arts practice, Karma. One day I might like to study Aikido. That practice has always attracted me.

+++


Excerpted from this morning's email to a dear friend.:

The other morning, while "sitting" (as we call it), everything went utterly silent--and remained dark--and something in me which was me (?) was suddenly falling rapidly through space, toward Earth's center of gravity. Actually, it's difficult to discern what was falling through what. Was some part of me falling through me? I dunno. The curious thing was how there was nothing. Nothing at all -- no thought. Nothing -- except the sense of breathing. Maybe some faint sense of gravity. I was awake in black space, though on the verge of sleep, perhaps. Kevin asked when I told him of this if it felt as though I might die. I agreed. He knows this one. He said "If you return to the breath (awareness of), It'll work out. I did thrust my eyes open when I "fell," instinctively. I didn't know where I was! It wasn't the first time this happened, only the most intense. It's now happening most recent "sits". I think I'll just see what happens. It scares me, but Fuck, so what? I'm sure as hell not going to stop this ride. Meditation owns me now. Or ...? Who's meditating, anyway?

[River]

Why write about or discuss meditation in a forum on polyamory? Well, it seems to me that
polyamory is simply an approach ("a style") of loving relationship. And it seems also equally clear that relationships with others are grounded in our relationship with ourselves. And meditation both excellerates and assists changes in one's life: Specific changes. Changes in the direction of greater and greater awareness and freedom. Freedom from compulsion, habit....

That's why. Meditation empowers us to choose, and to choose love.

[River]

Here's what my friend said in reply to what I said about falling through empty space while sitting.:

"I recognise the meditation experiences you're talking about - there's even a name for it in Sanskrit. It's supposed to just be a loosening of the normally rigid connexion between senses and perception - which can in itself be scary enough! Just shrug your mind's shoulders and sit on."

Gosh. I never made much distinction between senses and perception, so I'm not sure what this means, quite. Yet, I can see that perception is something that includes sensory inputs but is also something sort of distinct -- largely because of the relation of intentionality (as the phenomenologists call it). Which is to say that perception involves directed awareness, not just the senses, per se, naked and raw.

Anyhoo, there's a whole lotta shaking going on, as the song goes. Had a lovely mindfulness while eating breakfast experience with my Sweetie, this morning. It arose as naturally as breathing. But I did note that if I really give myself to each bite of food, well, it doubles or tripples in tastyness!

Bowing.

[Charlie]

The most sage words I have ever been fortunate enough to have directed towards me came from a very generous friend and teacher.

An incredibly skilled craftsman and sculptor in his own right, he was referring to the understanding of the intrinsic nature of materials.

I have applied this one sentence, at one time or another, to every aspect of my life:

"If you go far enough into one material, you arrive at all other materials."

Go far enough into ourselves, and we arrive at everyone else, and vice versa. By way of experiencing love in a limitless way, polyamory if you like, and delving deep into the hearts of CF and RC, I have arrived at the hearts of everyone around me. I am fast arriving at the heart of the World.

I have only ever practiced walking meditation with discipline, a residual benefit from my years as a distance runner. Perhaps I was actually being trained to take all things in stride...

[River]

I have only ever practiced walking meditation with discipline, a residual benefit from my years as a distance runner. Perhaps I was actually being trained to take all things in stride...

This I need to look (or walk) into more!

[Charlie]

This is another one of those "form follows function" aspects of my life.

After putting up my running shoes and putting on work boots, I found myself in college without a vehicle and relatively no money. So I walked. Everywhere.

Having already been exposed to the "runner's high" and the mental ease to which long stretches of sustained running put my brain, simply walking was, well, a walk in the park. I would look forward to the two miles between my apartment and the shop as a way to clear my mind before getting down to a long night creative problem solving.

The walk home was even more beneficial, as it relieved the tension of lifting, pushing, moving, straining, thinking....

I should add that I am a fast walker, and I tend to move in a "tangent to tangent" path, always seeking the most efficient way to move from point A to point B.

Somewhere along the way, I adopted this way of moving in the shop as well, using the short distances between machinery to breathe and center myself for the next task. To the observer, I appear determined and intense, which I am, but my mind is unattached and calm.

The nice thing about walking meditation is that it only requires that you walk...the breathing happens naturally, following the rhythm of your pace, and soon after comes the centering.

Walking railroad tracks, however hobo-like it may seem, is a fantastic trick for learning to let go of controlling the pace of one's stride.

Provided, of course, that you aren't hit by a train, in which case, your awareness of the oneness of all things becomes immediate, interrupting one's peaceful journey to enlightenment.

[yoxi]

Who said the journey to enlightenment was peaceful? ;) (a white-water canoe extravaganza from where I'm sitting... lovely scenery, though!)

[River]

Not to nit pick, but I wanted to say that I doubt it is either helpful or true to speak in terms of a journey to enlightenment. Instead, I prefer the notion of a journey of enlightenment. (And, yes, it's more of a white water trip than a walk in the park, much of the time.) Both are tiny words, but each packs a lot of punch in two letters! But the word "to" seems to imply that there is a getting there. "Are we there yet?" And for there to be a getting there there has to be a Not There Yet. An image arises of a wall, a fence, a door, ... a border crossing, with the line being sharp and distinct. But I think what happens is that the light is on a dimmer switch, not an on/off switch. And there's no final finish line.

That will be twenty dollars at the door please.

[Charlie]

Twenty dollars well spent.

[River]

Good luck finding the door!

[Charlie]

Perhaps not a door.

But a threshold...

[River]

So long as I'm paid, whaddah I care?

[Charlie]

Dang, Brother, I know you ain't in it for the money.

[River]

Shhhh!! Whadda ya tryin' here, to ruin my REP-u-TAY-shun?!!

[yoxi]

Word Wars IV: A New Hope...

"An image arises of a wall, a fence, a door, ... a border crossing, with the line being sharp and distinct."

Well, I only have myself to blame, since I started this by saying "no, it's more like *this* from where I'm sitting..." (though I tried to include irony in my tone of keyboard) but let's not get into universalising our own experiences ;) - I'm comfortable with you being uncomfortable with "to", so long as you're comfortable with me being comfortable with "to" - since it doesn't do all that wall-fence-door stuff for me. I don't assume any sharp transitions, but also no reason to assume it won't feel like a change of state, at least in retrospect - and I'm really way more interested in the journey anyway, since that's the only part I'm certain about :).

So by all means, you can be on the door (wherever that is), but I'm dancin' across the prairie!

[River]

Yoxi,

I was just riffing off of your post, that's all. You see, *I* have this concern, this worry, that *some* folks will get themselves into an unfortunate bind (knot) by envisioning Dharma practice, meditation, sadhana (spiritual practice) as a journey somewhere else, when in reality the journey is simply further into one's own true nature -- or into the awareness and experience of that already existing fact / reality. Oftentiimes, folks combine this notion with the notion that they have to "get rid of" part/s of themselves -- and so they go to war within themselves. And I find this a particularly counterproductive approach to the journey. I wasn't saying that YOU were doing this. I just wanted to have my concern expressed. That's all. Your post evoked that concern, even if that evocation was entirely unrelated to your writing's intention.

Furthermore, all my chit-chat about selling my "wisdom" was nothing more than mildly caustic giggle rousing.

[River]

I don't assume any sharp transitions, but also no reason to assume it won't feel like a change of state, at least in retrospect

Here's how I see it (But I could certainly be wrong!): I already possess, albeit in limited degree and proportion, those qualities which are the qualities folks have been calling "enlightenment". So do you, and so does everyone else -- in differing degrees and proportions.

The primary attribues of "enlightenment" are, as I see things now, (a) lovingkindness and (b) mindful awareness. Each of these, when practiced effectively and in combination, bring about more enlightenment, which is to say more of these two. And the more one has of these two the more freely this whole directional trend of growth and development (unfolding) is likely to unfold. Only when we get in the way of these two qualities of "awakeness," when we contract awareness, compassion, etc., do we apply brakes on the "journey" of "enlightenment" -- which might be better called "enlightening," since I doubt there is a terminal conclusion to the process.

Of course, my model (which I've borrowed from others) goes a long way toward eliminating the whole Worshiped Guru projective fantasy that too many folks get caught up in. It also allows us to meet our favorite teachers face to face, as -- ultimately -- equals. This diminishes all kinds of idealizational fantasies which prevent us from seeing ourselves and others in a true light.

[yoxi]

It caught me by surprise to have an old, old button pushed by what you wrote - the "whatever you say, it's not good enough!" button, and nothing to do with what you actually said - well, almost nothing! Since I haven't yet successfully unpushed this button again, I can't converse sensibly about this, it'll just be toads and snakes coming out of my keyboard. I know this to be so because I've just deleted a whole bayou of them.

[Charlie]

Meditation, anyone?

[River]

... it'll just be toads and snakes coming out of my keyboard. I know this to be so because I've just deleted a whole bayou of them.

LOL!

I know just what you mean, brother.

[yoxi]

River, whether I agree with what you wrote or not, I'm very confident of your positive motive for writing it :).

Charlie, part of what caused this reaction in me is that because of PTSD symptoms I've been working with since last summer, I've lost the ability to meditate for more than a minute at a time for the moment, and it's clear that this makes me envious of people who can meditate, and feel easily "judged" by them. It's not easy, not being able to do something after 20 years of benefiting from it - so sometimes I throw my toys out of the cot!

[Charlie]

Yoxi, thank you for explaining the earlier tone of discourse; I am so sorry that you have bear such frustration.

If it pleases you, I am interested to understand what aspects of PTSD are inhibiting your meditation, and also, how have you practiced meditation in the past?

And toys...I love to see toys scattered all over the floor. It usually means something was happening.

[yoxi]

Thanks, Charlie (me and River have smoothed over my cracking-up off grid :))

The PTSD symptoms I'm dealing with are: hypervigilance, insomnia, inability to concentrate, skin and digestion trouble, mild occasional paranoia (see above, sigh...) and are in a sense very welcome, because they heralded some painful stuff finally surfacing. They're more and more manageable, and the stuff they heralded is becoming more and more pellucid.

My meditation practice for the last 20 years (the "official part" as opposed to the just getting on with it during the day part) has been contemplation of my breathing, cultivation of loving kindness, and a visualisation practice, as the "sitting still with closed eyes" practices, and alongside of all that a lot of walking meditation.

What I've found since last summer is that even if I'm somewhere really safe on my own, sitting still with closed eyes means just listening to an inner voice repeating "this isn't safe! this isn't safe!" - and that's without the panic and lack of concentration issues. Sitting even in a house that I know someone else is in is not a goer.

However, I've discovered over the last few days that instead of "trying to meditate" - you know, that thing I know I can't do - I'm just catching my attention every so often during the day, and welcoming mindfulness or loving kindness as I need it. This is opening something up, which is both painful (which is why my mind wants me to avoid it) and a relief. So in aggregate I'm doing okay, and getting some new confidence in being able to work creatively with my mind in difficult circumstances. Meanwhile, I'm not too bad at apologising :-/

[River]

In case anyone is wondering, Yoxi and I "met" here in this forum a couple of years ago and have been communicating regularly throughout those years. He lives in England and I live in the U.S., so we have had to make do with words where often hugs and silence were called for. They've been very good words, and I count Yoxi among my dearest of friends, ever. ... Well, this explains our taking our conversation "off grid" from time to time.

I'll have something to say about meditation sometime soon. Well, I'll say this much for now.: I sat only moments ago. That falling through space thing happened and I maintained awareness of my breath right through it, so it wasn't that worrisome. I discovered I could welcome this sensation with ease and without fear(!). So ... Yay!

[GroundedSpirit]

..................
What I've found since last summer is that even if I'm somewhere really safe on my own, sitting still with closed eyes means just listening to an inner voice repeating "this isn't safe! this isn't safe!" - and that's without the panic and lack of concentration issues. Sitting even in a house that I know someone else is in is not a goer.


Hi Yoxi,

{{{Hugs}}} for what you're going through.

Would this help...............

Part of the training and understanding of meditation is the ability to disconnect and be the 'observer'. This 'observer' is the TRUE self. It has the capacity to observe, acknowledge these thoughts and emotions as being present but NOT ATTACH to them. I'm sure you understand this ?

The 'observer' can take the thought/emotion of "this isn't safe" and simply note is as "interesting". An "interesting" little chemical reaction taking place in our brain that has OBVIOUSLY no connection to reality. It's fine. Two tbsp of water, 3 of vinegar, one of lemon juice - this is what you get ! :) A "thought" made of nothing more than vapor. Interesting formation - but no real substance.

Practicing this skill and understanding is how we reprogram our brains to chemically balance the way they are supposed to. It's a little slow at first sometimes but can snowball pretty quickly. First thing we know, we look back and say "Wow - that used to REALLY bother me - wonder when exactly that stopped" !

Best wishes to you and keep focused.

GS

[yoxi]

Actually, this doesn't really help (though I appreciate the spirit in which you've offered it) - and the reason why is that body and mind are not separate, but mutually causal.

One of the things that goes on with PTSD is that the part of the brain that is active when cultivating mindfulness is exactly the same part that does hypervigilance in PTSD. It's a well recognised issue for people with PTSD who also want to meditate, because they pretty much can't do it - it's not just me :) - the biomachinery is too locked in 'safe mode'.

So in a certain sense, when I read what you wrote it felt a bit like being told "Broken leg? You just have to set it and let it knit and then it'll be fine" - true, but not at all relevant to dealing with being someone with a broken leg right now. For sure, as the 'observer' you can be unattached to the pain, but that still doesn't mean you can walk on it. I can know full well that the panic I experience is a product of neurochemistry, but I still experience it fully and somatically, because panic of this kind is designed to function on the amygdalic level and get you out of fatal danger before your 'reason' gets you killed by hesitating. In practice, what happens when I sit with my panic is that I become more aware of it, and it increases (like listening to your tinnitus).

Now I know that's not what you were saying, that's just how I responded - but it's kind of like those Balans office chairs that are only good for your back if your back is already pretty healthy. Your advice would be useful if I were dealing with much more attenuated symptoms than I am (a charley horse instead of a fracture :)).

So. I'm doing what I can to retrain my mind/body chemistry out of the PTSD behaviour it's got into (bearing in mind that it has a 42-year head start on me, since that's when the situations that brought this on originally began to program my mind and body); but in the meantime, I'm having to find a completely different approach to getting around on mind-crutches, and this recent approach I mentioned above seems to be bearing fruit. This is a creative development for my meditation in any case, so I'm happy with what I've got, since it's way better than nothing, and way better than trying to sit with the panic and getting overwhelmed by it. I am confident that what I'm doing will aid my other approaches to overcoming the PTSD symptoms. And my background of practice and way of living in general has enabled me to contain the worst excesses of what the panic wants me to run towards/away from. Even at its worst, it hasn't been a complete nightmare, just the best part of one - and it's eased off a lot since its peak in September, when I spent a month feeling like I was on bad speed.

If this sounds a little defensive/aggressive (I can't tell if it does, but knowing what I'm like at the moment, it seems pretty likely :(), then don't take it personally, please! It's just that since all this really kicked in last summer (and since I realised I've been living with PTSD Lite for decades already), I've had a lot of well-meaning advice from people who have never experienced this, a lot of which boiled down in the end to "you should just do whatever my favourite theory/practice is, and you'll get over it" and has been given to me by people who are largely uncomfortable with what I'm going through and haven't been able just to sit with the reality of it with me, instead of trying to "fix" it. And since that also describes my own relationship to it until recently, I've tried to follow their suggestions and just got more alienated instead (and felt worse for 'failing'). So I'm keeping a certain safe distance from others' suggestions thee days, since my own creative approach is still a delicate sapling at the moment.

I'm very lucky to have a good friend who has been dealing with worse PTSD symptoms than me for over 20 years now, because we both "get" each other's experience, and can help each other negotiate it when we get too overidentified with one particular aspect of it - without competing, and without trying to fix each other.

To me, the middle way, then, is to be able to experience what's really happening: to neither push parts of it away (try to fix the parts I don't like) nor get swamped/overwhelmed by it (overidentify with just one part of my experience). The "what's really happening" is that my neurochemistry has me in a state of constant mild-to-medium panic, and I can't turn that off, and I need (and now newly have) something good and spacious and loving running alongside of that experience, as and when moments arise where I'm able to cultivate that. Good enough :).

[River]

Thanks for sharing all of that, Yoxi. You have me wanting to dig in and read a lot more about PTSD.

Apparently, your PTSD is more pronounced at present than at earlier times, which is a curious thing. Have you any thoughts about why? (I said it seems more pronounced recently because you'd been more successfully practicing meditation at earlier times [right?].)

[yoxi]

Yes, it's like it was rumbling along at an almost unconscious level for decades, informing how I reacted in certain situations (like sharing rooms/space, and sex, and, well, any situation where I didn't have 'control over my environment'), but last summer it jumped several levels, in terms of both intensity and of my being aware of it, and the familiarity of it has made it really obvious in retrospect how much it's been present all along, and steering me around.

Meditation has never been easy, but my strongest motive for doing it the way I was doing it was (until fairly recently) that of wanting other people's approval, so that weighed much more than my own self-preservation. I can remember numerous occasions where I didn't want to do it but was following the crowd. And my 'best' meditation experiences have always been when I was on my own. So in an ironic way, this recent uprising of the PTSD symptoms is an indicator of me being much more connected with my own well-being than with others' approval, at last :).

Also, what was going on until recently was way less biochemical/limbic, so it affected me more emotionally and much less physically. I'm inclined to say I have PTSD symptoms rather than "I have PTSD" because it's just a label and I don't particularly want to get entangled with it. Sometimes it's more straightforward (or handy shorthand) just to say that's what I "have" - but all I really have is a set of symptoms with a set of causes, and that's what I'm interested in - the causes and how to undo them, the symptoms and how to contain them.

[River]

There's much you say I can resonate with -- e.g., the part about putting other people's approval over one's own deeper, truer needs. And I think I probably have a milder case of some of those symptoms you speak of. (I never knew when my mother was going to hit me, so I flinched whenever her arm would move -- and it started leaking out into the wider world so that I'd flench when other people moved their arms! Etc.) [flench or flinch? hmm.]

[River]

Jack Kornfield was just quoting Mark Twain in an online video I was watching.... I decided to share the quote.:

"My life has been filled with terrible misfortunes, most of which never happened." -- Mark Twain

Make with it what you will.

[Athena]

I was reading over Yoxi's account of dealing with PTSD symptoms with interest, and also I hope that like Yoxi is hoping, this is a period of difficulty that will actually lead to greater healing. Yoxi, you may already be familiar with these techniques of 'grounding', but if you are feeling overwhelmed by unsafe feelings emotionally, you can try to be mindful instead of an intense but safe physical feeling - such as holding an ice cube for example. Have you tried techniques like that?

[yoxi]

I haven't tried anything specifically like that, no. But then my feelings rarely feel really overwhelming, and are (at the moment) mostly kicked off by the difficult and scary co-lodger in my current house. Since I'm about to move across country and get to live on my own again, it's manageable!
My approach to working with the symptoms is to take regular small risks to teach myself that the aspects of normal life my lizard-brain finds scary are in fact just normal life and I can keep on doing them. This mostly works, and sometimes doesn't, and then the compassion is useful. I have faith in my ability to be bigger than any one aspect of my experience - and occasionally my lizard brain says "the hell with that, we're outta here!!" and I have to run now and discuss it later :).

[River]

Kevin & I just sat together ... I dunno, maybe half an hour to 45 min. The zabuton (or whatever it is called) and zafu combo make for such comfort and ease in sitting. I really noticed how pleasurable just sitting can be. I focussed on breath, but really also allowed a full appreciation of bodily pleasure in just being / sitting. There was no "falling through empty space" experience, such as the one I'd reported above. I neither miss that nor wish it away.

There is a hunger I'm noticing in sitting, a hunger which is not tormenting or troubling, which I embrace with feather lightness. It is not dukka, not suffering hunger. It is joy-hunger ... the shape of a knot letting itself dissolve in my heart-mind. It is as though I am sweeping the path to my home so I can welcome all of myself and all of the other/s who I am lightly humming into my world, playing a silent and invisible flute.

But it is spring, and these things happen in spring.

[yoxi]

I've discovered a way to be able to sit for longer (without triggering my PTSD panic button) - it turns out to be music. I put on Steve Reich's Music For 18 Musicians quietly in the background, which has been a friend since the 70's, and the familiarity of it (coupled with its beautiful constant changingness) acts as a protector, and I can rest in myself, indwell, be still and loving. The music in me rises up to meet it...

This is not "traditional", but then tradition doesn't have much useful advice on PTSD! I'm content.

[River]

Great album!

As for "traditional," who gives a fig? Dharma evolves! Otherwise, we moderns would likely have little use for it.

My most powerful meditation experience -- also my first! -- was accompanied by the music of Tangerine Dream (a mixed bag).



Student to teacher: "Where shall I enter the dharma?"

"Do you hear that waterfall?" the zen master asks.

"I do."

"Enter there."

[Athena]

I am actually getting intrigued by a modified yoga that gives positions that can be used by those of us who are heavier and have lost much of their strength and flexibility and want to get it back (both physically and mentally). Do any of you use yogic methods or are you strictly using Buddhist meditation?

[River]

I didn't respond to your above question, Athena, because I was hoping someone who practices hatha yoga would do so, and was waiting.... I will say that I do think flexibility and strength in the body, which hatha yoga fosters, would be of benefit to myself or anyone else wanting to dive into sitting practice with devotion. Good sitting posture is an art in itself, and needs careful and mindful practice to cultivate. And I have a lifelong habit of really bad posture, in terms of alignment with gravity, so....

Those here who have done some sitting, most of us anyway, will have a hint of what I'm saying about alignment with gravity and flexibility and strength in sitting meditation. Comfort is crucial, and body pains will arise without those elements, and those will become the focus (or distraction) of the meditation, rather than the relaxed "state" insights and energetic liberations that meditation can allow. (Note: I typoed that as "medication," with a c, initially -- which made me laugh!)

[River]

Two excellent books on posture and meditation are

Aligned, Relaxed, Resilient

&

The Posture of Meditation

by Will Johnson


.

[Athena]

Thanks! I have found a really nice book - Mega Yoga that is geared to people with bigger and possibly out of shape bodies with modified and original Yoga postures to learn from. I have also been trying out some local classes, but my work hours make that a problem sometimes.

[neegoola]

i take most advantage "using" my breath observation in... any moment, any posture, any place i find my self: cuewing up somewhere, feeling arising emotions/thoughts i don't like as a soul, having little insonnia, travelling on long journeys by train, etc, etc, etciù!

and if my mind speaks too much, i sit silent and listen all "noises" listenable around me. also this can be done in any moment.

..aehm..i suspect that all this can be done in any moment and posture and can be quickly recalled after a period in which one sits down and analize/absorb the tecnique; afterwards a little perpetuated connexion with physical activity can help, yes. does this make sense?!

[Minxxa]

I have found that doing yoga helps me tremendously to shed my worries and thoughts, become more mindful and in the moment, to FEEL each muscle in my body. I've been doing Hot Yoga, a fusion class which blends Vinyasa and Hatha and I really like it.

For me, it's the combination of listening to the direction and following along, and focusing on my body and breathing and sweating-- by the end of class I am always more calm and peaceful, my mind is more quiet, and I am more capable of thinking about issues and feelings with a peaceful and understanding heart.

It's changed my life...

[neegoola]

thanks, minxxa, i guess it is very similar to what i feel after contemporary dance sessions :)