Just LR

[LovingRadiance]

One of the most meaningful things anyone has ever said to me was to tell me,
"You aren't weird, or odd or bizarre. You are JUST L.R."

It was a real life conversation, so he actually used my real name. BUT-the point is the same. He didn't judge the aspects of who I am as good/bad, weird/normal, odd/common etc. He just accepted implicitly that all the things that I am, are just ME.

I cried when he said that to me.

I cried because it was the one thing I've longed for my whole life-someone to JUST accept me for who I am without judging what it means that I am who I am.

I cried because it was something I knew (at one time) I had from him; but I thought that had changed when I had my oldest daughter-out of wedlock, as a teen in highschool still. But-I was wrong. I'm glad I was.

That happened just recently-near Christmas I think.

THAT is why I titled this thread "Just LR". Because the most important thing for me is to know that IT IS OK for me to JUST BE ME. I haven't always thought it was, in fact I usually don't think it is and I spend a lot of time either defending the fact that I am who I am or trying to be something I'm not so people will stop condemning me. Neither thing works well for me. Both make me feel like a failure.

It's past time for ME to accept that I am JUST LR and that I should be proud of that. It's not that I can't be a BETTER LR. But I can't be Ariakas or Mono or RP or RC or Maca's dream woman or GG's dream woman or anyone else. I can only be LR and I can only aspire to being a better LR.
AND
That's ok. :)

So, that's why I named the thread Just LR; why am I writing it at all?

I've pretty much only had threads on here that address a given moment, experience, issue or topic.

So it's hard for me to track "progress" through my posts, because they are scattered all over hell and back.

I thought-just maybe if I take a hint from all of you bright folks, I could put some of the "milestone" moments into one thread and that way when "the going gets tough" as it's bound to do over and over-
I have one simply spot to go to look at the milestones I've already passed.

[LovingRadiance]

Today was the first day I went on a date with GG, without asking Maca's permission.

Now, I wasn't RUDE or secretive. I did tell him I was leaving, where I was going etc.
It's just that I always ask him if it's ok. I always ask his permission.
He hasn't really said I HAVE to-but I always have and it's always bothered me.

Today-I just didn't.

He didn't freak out or anything. He told me to have fun. He stayed home, made dinner for him and the kids, watched a movie, wrote to you all, read some more of the Non-Violent Communication book.

I had a good talk with GG. It was relaxing and we both came back re-energized and in good spirits. Maca was doing ok emotionally. Nothing about the nightmare of his week is gone, but he wasn't worse just because I went out with GG.

He did hurt himself (arm) while we were gone, nothing serious.... I felt bad, he was having an issue opening a door. It could have happened even if I WERE here and he certainly wasn't blaming me or trying to make me feel guilty when he told me about it.

All in all-I'm proud of myself and I'm proud of him too.

I feel like that was a major milestone for me.

[Fidelia]

Great idea, LR. I'm glad you thought of it, a thread to record milestones and whatnot. Great idea.

And, not that I think my opinion matters much, but O my dear! Being "just LR" is plenty and then some. You are Loving Radiance.

[LovingRadiance]

Thank you Fidelia. ;)

[bella123456]

One of the most meaningful things anyone has ever said to me was to tell me,
"You aren't weird, or odd or bizarre. You are JUST L.R."



That's a great thing to hear !

A few years ago my therapist said to me "You've really got to get over your insane desire to be - normal. You're not normal, you're not normal at all - You're different and that's ok"

So, "You're not normal" is perhaps a little confronting when coming from your therapist...probably the 3 words you really don't want to hear from a therapist... :)

But, of course - It's about accepting..

I'm also happy to see milestones celebrated - What can seem like small successes and wins really should be given more value in general, it can be easy to overlook them amongst general life.

Great strategy !

[Breathesgirl]

.

I'm also happy to see milestones celebrated - What can seem like small successes and wins really should be given more value in general, it can be easy to overlook them amongst general life.

Great strategy !

It is indeed :).

"A journey of a thousand miles starts with a single step" applies in a lot of different places in our lives. It's those baby steps that enable us to eventually accomplish the 'big' picture. It's also those baby steps that let us start the journey, make the 'smaller' milestones and successes and get over some of the speed bumps in the journey.

[Ariakas]

It's past time for ME to accept that I am JUST LR and that I should be proud of that. It's not that I can't be a BETTER LR. But I can't be Ariakas or Mono or RP or RC or Maca's dream woman or GG's dream woman or anyone else. I can only be LR and I can only aspire to being a better LR.
AND
That's ok. :)


Thats awesome, and I think all of us can learn from this. I blame myself for everything happening in my life. I shoulder the entire relationship breaking down myself. Its a hard road to believe we can always fix ourselves so that things can work better....

Its an impossible road...

Confidence, from accepting ones own self completely is the most attractive thing a person can do...

I write that with ease... living it... *sigh*... not so much. Keep being yourself LR, you will be the dream woman you want to be ;)


I thought-just maybe if I take a hint from all of you bright folks, I could put some of the "milestone" moments into one thread and that way when "the going gets tough" as it's bound to do over and over-
I have one simply spot to go to look at the milestones I've already passed.

Interesting idea. An LR synopsis. Isn't this how memory works. Those key points that really meant something stick to the inside of your brain.

Nice thread LR... :)

[LovingRadiance]

In theory that's how memory works.

But, I noticed in October that Maca commonly remembers only the negative things that happen in his life. It became undeniably obvious when I started logging the positives. Something negative would happen and then we would talk, he could not remember any of the things I was referencing-and yet IN THOSE MOMENTS he had expressed how great they were!

So, for Christmas I bought him a journal to write ONLY the good things in. That way, when the shit hits the fan, which is always will, he can go back and read all of the little things that went right, that he didn't preserve in his memory.
Unfortunately-it doesn't get written in a lot. :(

AT ANY RATE, I'm reading a lot, working on learning and figuring out some things about myself and hopefully will have more to write on here asap. ;)

[nycindie]

. . . I bought him a journal to write ONLY the good things in.

Great idea! I might have to do that for myself. I used to do something similar a few years ago, I think it was every night before I go to bed, make a list of ten good things that happened that day, or ten things to be thankful for -- I wish I could recall what it was. But it does seem to help one's outlook and frame of mind to count their blessings.

[LovingRadiance]

Very true nyc-
it always seems to help to focus on the positive. ;)

[Ariakas]

Great idea... I might even have to start doing that... :)

[SchrodingersCat]

In our marriage, the phrase "You're completely insane" is a term of endearment. So not only do my husband and I accept one another's quirks, but we truly love them. I would never want a "normal" husband, how boring THAT would be! Frankly, if either of us was "normal," I don't think we could stand each other...

We are weird, odd, and bizarre. And we embrace it!

[LovingRadiance]

I say that to the kids all of the time. :)
They say it back. It's a big joke for us to say, "I got crazy from you" then someone will say, "NO! I got crazy from YOU!"

;)

[LovingRadiance]

I'm in Florida...

It's been so healing, externally and internally.

I've been taking time each day to think about my needs. I've about gotten together another small list to add to my original. I noted that it's hard for me to identify what MY needs are outside of food, air, water.... bad sign.
So, I started working on creating that list.

During this trip, I've been working on using the time alone to consider it more in depth.

I'm also working on figuring out what steps are necessary to start meeting those needs in a manner that is still loving and supportive of my family. Because of course I DO love all of them and do want to continue being supportive of their needs.
I just don't want to do it at my expense anymore..

In no particular order, some things on my mind:

1. I think I'm going to take French.

2. I'm going to schedule one night a week that I sleep alone, totally alone, with no "wake up call" in the morning.

3. I'm going to go see the college counselor and talk to them about how to go about getting back into school and on track for getting my degree. (I already arranged a babysitter for that appointment).

[SNeacail]

I noticed a big change in myself when I made the decission to start doing certain things on my list that I wanted to do. Even if it was just a super small steps toward those goals, like buying tickets (for myself alone) to an event that isn't until April, made a big difference.

[LovingRadiance]

It really is a big deal to prioritize care of ourselves. I became a mom at 16. I was so concerned about proving that I could be a GOOD mom, I neglected me... it became a habit. A habit it's long past time to break.

I bought some books today. Relationship books. I will likely read them all by mid March.

It was so nice, walking around the book store-no rush. As I was kneeling in the aisle, looking at the bottom shelf something struck me (mentally).

I sat there and thought about it and realized that something I need is time away to go to the bookstore-without pressure to be somewhre else AND freedom to get a book or two. I'm going to add that to my list. It's a downtime that really helps me rejuvenate.

[LovingRadiance]

I did a lot of reading in Florida (while sitting in the storm). Got home to a snowstorm. Beautiful white everywhere, but too damn cold to bother going anywhere.
I also got a nasty cough/congestion. I'm tired, moody, medicated and anti-social. Not a very friendly way to start. I'm halfway through my second box of tissues. My head is pounding it's so blocked up.
So-I am just taking care of me physically-but not really working on anything that is mentally or emotionally taxes right now.

[LovingRadiance]

I've finished 3 of the 4 books that I bought in Florida.

My cold is starting to taper off. That's helpful.

I started working out again Monday. It's felt good these last 3 days to get a workout in, however small it may be.

Yesterday I went by the college and made an appointment with the counselor there for next week to discuss what I need to do to re-start college classes.

Today I started learning the French alphabet.

:)

[LovingRadiance]

I'm not in the space to describe it-
but Spicy Pea had her baby.

GG stayed home and had Sweet Pea's bday party and took care of the kids for the two days we were gone with that. Then watched them yesterday while we slept.

Maca came home and told GG thank you, got all choked up.

;)

I love my family.

[sage]

Really pleased everything is OK and congrats grandama :-).

[LovingRadiance]

Thank you Sage. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

36 years today. Hmmm. Not sure that is a big deal, but it's some sort of accomplishment anyway. :)
It certainly doesn't bother me, which sometimes results in me wondering if there is something wrong with me. These age milestones that people get all hung up over... don't do that to me... :rolleyes:

My little one has taken to gently running her fingers down my cheek and saying, "mommy, you are so my sweetie pie!" I love that.

Last night my oldest one had her dad drive her to the store so she could buy me a birthday card. In it she wrote that she was so thankful for me, she couldn't do it without me. So sweet. :) That means so much.

[LovingRadiance]

I couldn't do one more day of sitting around while everyone watched movies. It's one of my pet peeves. Not watching a movie, but watching movies (or anything else) instead of living real life. It's no different than a drunk or a drug addict. When the "imaginary world" becomes a more significant part of your life than the REAL world-there's a problem-a "runaway from life" problem.

When it's drugs, alcohol, porn, it gets labeled addiction. But, when it's simply "entertainment" and you're still holding down a good job, keeping the grades up in school.... well that's just different.

Except... is it? Is it different than an addiction if it's ruining your personal relationships because you're too busy running away to the imaginary world to put the necessary time into the real life relationships to keep them maintained?

I don't think so.

Last night-I left all of the kids at home watching more movies with Maca. I went and hung out with friends (GG was away with his own friends).

Today, I had a talk (instigated by a rude little conversation the boys had with Mimi) with the "family" and specifically the boys.

1. Both boys were very adamant about spending 14 hours (14yo) and 21 hours (11 yo) a week "maintaining" their family relationships.

2. Both said that they personally believed that movies and video games were a detractor from building/maintaining relationships.

3. They both individually concluded that they believed that they needed to spend at least 5-6 hours a day focused on their relationships with the family in order to maintain them TO THE LEVEL THAT THEY EACH WOULD LIKE THEM TO BE AT.

In other words, they aren't happy with where their relationships are and they have a good idea what is needed to reach the level that they do want.... so where's the breakdown?

They both admitted, the breakdown was that they were lazy about doing the "easy quick fix" (watching movies and/or playing video games) instead of taking the time to do the things (they said "any physical activity that motivates us to talk") with the rest of the people in the family that would get them WHAT THEY WANT-by maintaining their relationships.

They were even able to say (without provocation) that they knew that when I was bitching about them playing the games or watching the movies it was because it bothered me that they weren't getting what THEY WANT out of their relationships with the rest of us.....

So.... I can't help but wonder, did it impact the thought processess of any of the other adults? This fact that the kids KNOW the relationships suck and WANT closer relationships with the whole family AND know that the gaming and movie watching is impeding their progress?

:rolleyes:

[Breathesgirl]

I know that feeling! I get to the point where if I even HEAR the word movie I want to scream!

[sage]

I admire you LR I gave up (have given up)with some of our tribe through the teenage years. Primarily because I actually don't want to spend time with them, it's just not worth it and seems like a lose, lose for me. I might get their company but it's not company that in their present evolutionary state I enjoy being around. Better to leave them in front of a screen and pick them up again around 19- 20. (I know it shouldn't be like that but I only have so much energy).

I do agree with the addiction thing though. Computer games are Z's drug of choice and dare I say that I'm starting to think his OSO falls into that category as well. I know I just threw in a boulder to your blog. This is part of our issue at the moment so can you please respond to it (if you want to) on the struggling mono thread.

xxThanks

[LovingRadiance]

Hey Sage,

There are many days-the last two weeks for example- when I just bail and leave them with the tv for precisely that reason. Teenagers and two year olds aren't my forte!

I'll go read the other blog. Hope I can be of some help, but I'll warn in advance, I'm a struggling poly right now. :(

[sage]

I just got an email from daughter no.2 (I love the way you've named your peas by the way, trying to think of a way to do that for our tribe).

She'll be 20 in May. From the age of about 12 until now she's been in a virtual gaga-land. The gist of the email "I love you mum, you're the best mum in the world, my childhood was perfect, I've only realised since you moved away...I'm sorry I was so mean to you when you split with dad... I miss you so much...and on...and on it went" I've created a folder for "Very special emails". They do come right, in the meantime maybe in front of a screen is the best place for them

[Magdlyn]

... I'm a struggling poly right now. :(

What happened? It sounds real bad, LR.

[LovingRadiance]

Pretty much it is.

I love Maca.
I believe that he loves me.

But-he can't handle his emotions. They come over him and just steamroll through like a trainwreck.

I can't help, I don't know how. It's really that simple-I would, but I don't know how. I've been trying, it's only getting worse.

It's not even REALLY polyamory or GG that is a problem. Every breath could be the trigger because he just has so many fears and insecurities raging around unleashed inside of him.

I don't know.

I'm not giving up on him, I'm not giving up on us, I don't believe that he is either.
But, at the same time, there has to be some damage control.

Right now I really wish I had a bike and could just put a helmet on and go for a long, windy ride.

[bella123456]

If I had a bike - I would happily lend it to you.

[redpepper]

thinking of you LR, sending you hugs and lots of love... also to Maca too.

[Magdlyn]

Awww, crap. That reminds me of my ex so much. His low self esteem killed our marriage. It's so frustrating. My sympathies, LR.

[nycindie]

(((((Big Squeezy Hugs)))))

[LovingRadiance]

Thanks Nycindie.

It's heartbreaking is what it is, just heartbreaking.

[LovingRadiance]

Ok, accomplishment.

Today I took the placement test at the college. That gave me the information I need in order to register for my class this summer. The information from the test won't be updated into their computer system til tomorrow or the next day. But, as soon as it's in their computer I can register to take my English class. ;)

One more step towards my goal to return to school knocked out. :)

[LovingRadiance]

Maca has moved out. Last night was rough-but I got through it. GG held me through nightmares and bizarre dreams-ever patient.

Today I awoke to a foot of fresh snowfall. BLECH.

BUT-I didn't let that stop me. I got the tax papers together, got my ass in the car and headed out. :)

In the process I reconnected with a friend whose been out of my life for 14 years. I missed him. We talked, well, I talked-he listened. He got me the book I need to study for math (he had a copy in his office) and offered that any Saturday if I need help, I can go by his place and he'll help me with the math.
We made plans to go out dancing sometime.
(not a date, "just friends")

I dropped the tax papers off.
Finalized paperwork approving me to be a daycare provider for the new grandbaby.
Bought groceries.
Got my math book.
Got signed up for my summer English class.

:)

[sage]

I had those kind of dreams while my husband and I were separating.

I've just finished a guest post for another blog in the niche of my main blog (not poly people). She wanted my story, (not the poly one). It brought up for me feelings I had prior to my marriage breakup. I always saw myself in a cage and couldn't figure out how to get out. Now I realise that cage was only ever made of one thing - my own fears.

Blessings, love and light to you LR, may you be all that your forum name implies.
xxx

[MrFarFromRight]

He got me the book I need to study for math (he had a copy in his office) and offered that any Saturday if I need help, I can go by his place and he'll help me with the math.
We made plans to go out dancing sometime.
(not a date, "just friends")Going out dancing is definitely useful for learning maths. And no, that isn't meant to be flippant. I grew up in a house where dancing was a sin... and look at the first quote I chose for my signature. AFAIC (does that one exist yet? As far as I'm concerned) dancing is definitely useful for living.

I'm sorry that Maca is having such a problem with his emotions and that you, too, are being steamrollered.

I'm about to be thrown out of here until next week, but I didn't want to leave without sending you
warm, warm Love.
I'll be thinking about you...

p.s. "just" is such a funny word. "Just LR" - but isn't that enough? "just friends" - but isn't that "just" what you need right now?

Dancing with you in my dreams,
J

[Magdlyn]

You have to fill out paperwork to provide childcare for your own grandchild?

So sorry things have come to such a state with Maca. Does this mean GG gets more of your time now? Will you sleep with him every night, or sleep alone? (sorry if that's too personal)

[LovingRadiance]

I had those kind of dreams while my husband and I were separating.

Blessings, love and light to you LR, may you be all that your forum name implies.
xxxThe dreams suck, now GG is having them too. :(
I'm trying to live up to my name. I'm trying.


I'm about to be thrown out of here until next week, but I didn't want to leave without sending you
warm, warm Love.
I'll be thinking about you...

p.s. "just" is such a funny word. "Just LR" - but isn't that enough? "just friends" - but isn't that "just" what you need right now?

Dancing with you in my dreams,
J Thanks, hopefully those dreams will find me, that sounds MUCH nicer than the dreams I've been stuck in this week!
I love dancing. A year or two ago Maca and I took a ballroom dancing class. It was SO SO much fun. I would LOVE to really put some devoted time into learning more.
I think JUST is exactly what I need-which is why I emphasized it in the blog title. :) My brother told me I'm "Just LR" (he used my real name) and it just really touched me. I want to be loved, liked, enjoyed, appreciated for being JUST me, not for living up to someone else's standards. :)

You have to fill out paperwork to provide childcare for your own grandchild?

So sorry things have come to such a state with Maca. Does this mean GG gets more of your time now? Will you sleep with him every night, or sleep alone? (sorry if that's too personal)

My daughter got put on bedrest during her pregnancy and therefore had to quit working. Because of that she qualifies for daycare assistance from the state. They will pay me to watch him so she can go back to work, but only if I show that I'm CPR certified, am not a felon, don't have felons living with me etc.
SO-yes, I did have to do paperwork. :)

I'm sorry about where things are with Maca too. It's depressing. I love him. There's so much potential-but, potential is nothing without action.

GG does get more of my time in a way.. because he's here still. But, sleeping with him every night... I don't think so. There've been many times over the years when that opportunity existed (twice Maca moved out before and when he's worked out of town), but I treasure the opportunity to have my alone time too...

[LovingRadiance]

I am happy, sad, hopeful, depressed, more reassured and yet insecure, more confident and yet still afraid...

Maca and I met today for our first "Goal Making Meeting". We drove 2 hours down the driveway, talking. It was a little stilted at first, both of us a little defensive, not wanting to say the wrong thing or whatever.

Once we got to the middle of nowhere :) we managed to go over our goal lists, added to them, compressed them into more succinct plans. We agreed on 6 specific goals for this week between us. 1 is just his, 2 are just mine and 3 are for both of us to do.

We have agreed to meet each Saturday to discuss how we are doing, figure out what needs to be done the next week and ensure that our current actions are moving us towards our long term goals.

This is a big first for us. Up until now most of our marriage has run on "auto-pilot" and our auto-pilot guy sucks. :(

He took our little girl tonight, they had to leave too soon-I mean, it's 9 at night, but it felt like we didn't get but a few seconds together (it's not true, but that's how it felt). He's bringing her back tomorrow. We'll see each other when he brings her home, then.... another week. :(

I miss him so much.
His smell, the way the sun shines in his hair, his beautiful blue eyes.
The way he gives me his arm whenever we walk, the way he matches his steps to mine.
The way his mustache tickles my face when we kiss. His tongue caresses my lips and mouth....
The way his hand feels when our fingers are entwined.

I should simply appreciate the moments we shared today, they were good AND
they were productive. That means that we have a real chance to have a future, because we're actually working on it.

But damn it waiting sucks. I love him. I already KNOW I love him, I want to feel him in my arms, not fall asleep thinking of him alone in town while I'm here.

We shared a rough moment. I've moved our daughter and her baby into our room. Because-he's not here, why do I need a 330 square foot room? I don't. I won't stay with GG all of the time, I put some of my stuff in the laundry room and some in my personal bathroom. But, I don't need the space as much as she does with the little guy.

We're only part way through moving her stuff in there, and there is still a closet full of stuff that belongs to Maca and I in there. He and I were looking for something and stood there for a minute. We didn't say a word, but I'm sure he was feeling the same things I was. Regret, longing, disappointment, loss. It hurts.

We agreed to log a positive experience each day in a diary and in a different diary something that we could have done better or need to work on each day.
We also agreed to do 3 "The Work" worksheets a each this week. (www.thework.com)The goal being to work through some of the anger, resentment, jealousies etc that are destroying our relationship from the inside out.
We also have some personal goals (I'm going to try to finish 2 chapters of math and start my French) to work on this week.
When we meet Saturday next week, we'll check in on what we did or didn't accomplish, set new goals for the next week and talk about what we learned, need, want, etc.

It was a good day, but the ending of the day made it feel very.... bittersweet.

[redpepper]

Keep at it LR, hopefully you will both get to the bottom of the work this time around and make a change for a life time... always here for you if you need me.

[LovingRadiance]

Today I finished up section 1.3 of my math. That's 3 sections of chapter 1 (roughly 30 pages) knocked out. Whew-so far with an A. :)

I also finished moving SpicyPea's things to the larger room downstairs.

GG tore out the carpet from her room upstairs so that we can re-do the flooring in there.

Maca helped move my large dresser (with mirror) upstairs while he was here (dropping off SourPea).

Mimi is cooking dinner, the boys (SweetPea & SaltyPea) helped get things moved around and cleaned up so that the house is still livable.

AND

I got the laundry all finished too.

Overall a very productive day.

It was also very emotional, but I'm focusing on the accomplishments for now. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

I woke up at 1:30am alone. :( That was disconerting and sad.

Earlier in the day Spicy Pea and I took SourtPea and PPea to see Maca for dinner in town. It was a long drive, but she needed out of the house and he was lonely, Sourpea wanted her daddy and so off we went.
Maca enjoyed holding PPea and getting caught up with him-it's amazing all the little things hat change in just a couple days at this age.

Sourpea was thrilled to see daddy. She told him "I want to come take care of you and you take care of me at your work house! He was moved nearly to tears I think. He just replied "I love you too baby".

We snuggled at dinner together and made plans for the weekend. We have a date to go dancing Friday night, followed by me spending the night at his place. Then we do our "work" on goals and stuff Saturday morning. Then GG is bringing the kids in to town at noon. Spicy Pea and Ppea are going to see their grandparents, GG is goign to a movie with Sweet Pea, Salty Pea and Sourpea are going to hang with daddy and I'm going to go have tea with a friend.

Then at 4 or so we're hooking back up to have a family dinner. Salty adn Sweetpea are staying with Maca in town for the night-Sourpea may stay as well-that's still up in the air. GG, Spicy, Ppea and I will be heading home. Then I have plans with Spicy to walk down to a nearby dance class at 7, check it out, see what the prices are etc. We're considering joining after she returns from her trip to Oklahoma to see the baby's daddy.

Going to be a BUSY weekend.

Tomorrow is pretty busy too. I gotta find a comforter for one of Spicy's friends. She's here helping with the baby. The three of them moved into my old room (it's 330 square feet) They got wo beds, cradle, couch, tv etc set up so it's like a little studio apartment. But, She's using Maca' and I's special comfroter and that's not goign to work out. .So I'm gogni to find a special one just for her in her favorite color.
Have to take some billing paperwork to SpicyPea's medical people for insurnace stuff.
Gotta take Salty Pea in to order his new glasses.
Gotta knock out the next section in my math and go over the French lesson again....
Gotta finish up the paperswork Maca and I agreed to get done this week.
Helpd Sweet Pea with school.
Try to get a walk in witih SourPea and maybe do arms or abs or both workout...
Did I mention trying to clear out the popcorn ceiling in the bedroom upstairs? It's all demo'd, but we have to finish it up before we can move stuff into it. So that's one whole bedroom (second biggest in the house) sitting empty while all of our shit is in the rest of the house waiting.
My dresser is in the dining room... I realized that last night when GG returned to work just as I was returning to bed. Because my freaking vibrators are in the dresser! INCONVENIENT.
Ok, back to bed at 2am.

[LovingRadiance]

I finished chapter 1 of my math this week.

I had a date night with Maca Friday. We got a lot of talking done. We ironed out goals to work on (for improving ourselves and for improving our relationship) for this next week. We addressed a few issues that crop up between us regarding communication and laid out methods for improving them.

We also went through the house and discussed which "fixer up" things were going to be dealt with first, second, third etc.
We cleaned out 2 more bags of "stuff" to go to the trash and got a few bags of donation stuff ready-together.

Then Maca took the kids Saturday night to his place for the night. They had a BLAST!

He brought them home today, he and I talked over some aspects of the family dynamic, how/when we were going to start adding the steps for improving that into our goal lists.

Overall-another productive weekend. We both worked our butts off on our goals for last week and were very happy with our own progress and reassured by each others efforts as well.

[nycindie]

Wow, LR! Maybe you two work better together with a little distance. Perhaps dual homes is the next step in your relationship - hey, you never know! I've met people for whom that really works well.

:) Just glad to hear that things are moving forward for both of you.

[MrFarFromRight]

Hi LR!
Glad to see things are getting better between you and Maca. Have the nightmares stopped?

I've worked out that SpicyPea is the new mother. Is PPea the new arrival? Is that to be taken phonetically and describing one of the manufactured products? If not, and the baby hasn't got a name yet (or if PPea proves embarrassing later), might I suggest SnowPea? Given your location and the date of birth... (Or is that a British term?)

Have you noticed that I've grown up? (Read this (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7097&page=8).)

Still dancing...

[MonoVCPHG]

Nothing but smiles for you Pretty Lady :) Glad you guys are still working at it.

[sage]

Isn't snowpea a neat name? I hope you post again soon LR I'm really enjoying your posts here. It calms me. I haven't got any poly issues at the moment but I suppose a bit like you I'm in expansion mode. You're studying - I'm writing for a living and my brain feels a bit like an out-of-shape body being put through bootcamp. I can't even post on polypeople at the moment (although my little e-book is being put in a US university digital poly section and someone has asked me to speak at some sort of poly conference next year). I'm struggling to keep up with my other blog lifebeyondstuff (http://www.lifebeyondstuff.com), even though that's had it's best week ever in terms of traffic.

I guess what I'm trying to say in all this ramble is that I know things must be full-on for you right now, and maybe it's hard for you to post as well but right now this is my favourite blog and with the nature of my work I follow a lot!

[MonoVCPHG]

I'm struggling to keep up with my other blog lifebeyondstuff (http://www.lifebeyondstuff.com), !

I just looked at your blog...you seriously need to touch base with Redpepper's husband. Two peas in a pod!

[sage]

Thanks Mono does he have a blog?

[MonoVCPHG]

Thanks Mono does he have a blog?

I'll PM you :)

[LovingRadiance]

Wow, LR! Maybe you two work better together with a little distance. Perhaps dual homes is the next step in your relationship - hey, you never know! I've met people for whom that really works well.

:) Just glad to hear that things are moving forward for both of you.We're in dual homes for the time being. In THIS way it's certainly not my preference, having a 50 mile distance between us is LAME. But, in the past I've said many times that I thought it would be optimal to buy 10-20 acres and build several homes. That way we could have a little more "personal space"; but still be close enough that "seeing each other" wouldn't be a big planning fiasco... which it IS right now. When it's an hour drive either direction-you have to plan for 3 hours just to have an hour visit. Fucking SUCKS ASS.

Hi LR!
Glad to see things are getting better between you and Maca. Have the nightmares stopped?

I've worked out that SpicyPea is the new mother. Is PPea the new arrival? Is that to be taken phonetically and describing one of the manufactured products? If not, and the baby hasn't got a name yet (or if PPea proves embarrassing later), might I suggest SnowPea? Given your location and the date of birth... (Or is that a British term?)

Have you noticed that I've grown up? (Read this (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7097&page=8).)

Still dancing...
Nightmares have stopped. Have had some bizarre but funny dreams the last two nights. :)

SpicyPea is my oldest daughter. (19yrs)
SaltyPea is my oldest son (stepson). (15yrs in 2 days)
SplitPea is my Godson-but he's now "missing". (14 yrs)
SweetPea is my youngest son. (11yrs)
SourPea is my youngest daughter. (4yrs in June)
PPea is the new grandbaby. :) SnowPea isn't a bad idea. I hadn't thought of a good online name for the new baby. :)


I haven't checked out the link yet-it's been an erratic and hectic couple of days. I have only spent very short moments online and gotten NO homework done. :(
Haven't gotten any dancing in either actually! :(

Nothing but smiles for you Pretty Lady :) Glad you guys are still working at it.No giving up here Mon. When I have doubts, I just read your hysterically endearing posts and find myself re-energized!!

Isn't snowpea a neat name? I hope you post again soon LR I'm really enjoying your posts here. . . . . . . . .
I guess what I'm trying to say in all this ramble is that I know things must be full-on for you right now, and maybe it's hard for you to post as well but right now this is my favourite blog and with the nature of my work I follow a lot!Sage, I won't totally disappear. I haven't posted here or my peresonal blog all week. It's been such a freaking nightmare busy week!
Next week is testing for the kiddos (required standardized educational tests). I'm hoping that while the testing is going on I can take the laptop and go to the coffee shop, maybe do some catching up!
I'm glad to know there are people still reading though. :o Sometimes it seems like what I write is so pointless.

Thanks Mono does he have a blog? He does...
I'm pretty sure it's in my other blog... I'll look...

[LovingRadiance]

Very cute Mr. ;)
Congrats on becoming a senior.
hehehe!

[LovingRadiance]

This week was nightmare busy. I didn't get all my homework done (no requirement, just personal goal). I didn't finish all of the weekly goals on Maca's and I's agreement either.

It's the week before "that time of the month" and I'm fucking hormonal out of this world. In and out of tears all week. That leaves me feeling idiotic one moment, needy the next, followed by idiotic etc. :(

The grandbaby has been MISERABLE. He and mommy are leaving Monday for 2 months in Oklahoma, so there's been LOTS of running around to do to get them ready.

The 15 year old is having his bday party tomorrow night, so lots of running around and planning for that.

We're still trying to finish putting the upstairs bedroom back together (needs paint) so GG can move into it. THEN Sourpea will be able to go back to her own room downstairs and all 3 younger peas will have their own rooms back. But-it's not done and it's been daunting.

I'm "roomless". I can sleep in GG's room, and I can use his room anytime.... but... it's his room to me. Not my room. So, I have no personal space that is mine right now. Not cool.

The SourPea (3yo) is feeling needy-because I've been busy running around and her daddy is gone and GG has been busy with home improvement stuff. So, she's been acting out more.

Tonight is "datenight" with Maca. I'm waiting for him to get out here from town to pick me up (can't take my van, because the kids will be here with GG and if something happens, he needs a vehicle). Once Maca gets here, then we'll be driving back to town for the night. But, we don't know where the hell we'll be STAYING. He was SUPPOSED to be moving into an apartment today, but it's kind of up in the air. He was texting me about it-but had to go, so I don't know what's going on with that.

:( Rough week.

On top of that, I'm struggling with an honesty issue...

[LovingRadiance]

I've worked INSANELY hard to re-design my life since I found the word polyamory in September of 2009.
The PRIMARY change that needed to happen (and has been improving by leaps and bounds) was to being honest in my life.

But, one of the things that arose from that changing with me (me being honest with others, with myself etc) is that other people find it uncomfortable because they're used to the "safety net" of pretending. But... pretending and "social niceties" JUST for the sake of "social nicety" are subsets of lies.

Don't get all off track and derail what I'm saying-I'm NOT saying that manners, kindness, consideration etc all get thrown out the window. In fact, I think I'm MUCH more kind, mannerful, considerate etc now.

What I'm saying is, that those things need to come from the heart. If they don't-and you're just doing them because that's "the way it's done"-it's not honest.

So... that's just not "normal". I don't mind being "abnormal"; but I am finding it difficult to socialize because.... I do mind being expected to lie.

AND

I find that I don't WANT to make the effort to make friends. Because I keep realizing that the people I'm opening myself to, are more committed to being comfortable and accepted, than they are to being honest and real.

Right now, my feelings are somewhat hurt.
Someone I really enjoy hanging around has

~been telling me for 6+ months that they'd like to spend more time getting to know me (in person)

~expressed (repeatedly) that anytime I'm in town, to give them a call so we can hook up (including invites w/my kids-which is a BIG deal for me)

So, now that summer is coming, the roads aren't so icy and Maca's in town, I've been going to town a couple times a week (versus a couple times every 3-4 months before).

I texted that I was in town last week and they were busy. No biggy at all.
This week I texted I was in town and was asked to YES PLEASE come by. Directions to their home were texted to me (never been there) and I went with SpicyPea, SourPea and PPea (snowpea)... We had a good time.
After an hour I needed to take SpicyPea somewhere, she had plans, SourPea wasn't ready to go, she was having a blast playing with the other kids there.

This person offered that she could stay, and I could come back and visit more while Spicy was with her friends. We worked out some legistics and I ran Spicy to her drop off location.
On my way back I met up with Maca (who has also been invited repeatedly to spend time with this person etc). We weren't sure how things would work out-so he offered to wait in the van with Snowpea while I ran in to get Sourpea if that would be easier.
But, the response was a resounding NO NO NO, PLEASE PLEASE I miss you, want to see you, please come in and DON'T MAKE ME BEG!

So, we went in, were introduced to the rest of the family and spent 2 hours hanging out. Sourpea had clearly had a WONDERFUL time. She's been begging to know when we're going back ever since.

However, the roommate-who may or may not be this persons lover, and is someone Maca and I are acquainted with-
was NOT happy about Maca being there. Expressed signfiicant upset and concerns to me. A variety of natures of issues-MOSTLY regarding the risks of us being there SEEMINGLY based on the assumption that we were lovers of the person who invited us....
except... we're not.

Could be-but are not for a variety of reasons. I don't expect I will be. Maca was and there's a possibility that he could be again; but at least for the last 6 months-that hasn't been on the table or in the cards.


For example: said to me privately "YOU know that SO and I have always had an issue with starting a relationship with anyone who was having issues in their primary relationship."

Uh huh... I replied that yes I did know that, but it wasn't an issue regarding me, because I'm not having a relationship with either of them (neither of whom is the person who invited us over); nor is Maca...

Seems obvious to me that the implication was that they don't want either of us to have a relationship with the third person-who may be involved with them-I don't know, because since I'm ALSO not looking to be that person's lover-I don't CARE who that person is lovers with.....

Furthermore-the speaker has more of a "friendship" with Maca than with me. SO, why not say something to HIIM (since he was there) if the concern was whether or not HE was starting a relationship with 3rd party?

Beyond that-WHY NOT DISCUSS IT WITH THE 3rd PARTY if you are that concerned? IF it's any of your business who that person has relations with-then it seems to me, since you also LIVE with that person (it's a huge B&B style home owned by the person who invited us-the extra rooms all rented out to friends, including the couple who evidently had issues with our visit).... Why confront me?
On top of ALL of that-I've addressed this issue NUMEROUS TIMES since last June with this person and her SO. That in fact the 3rd party whom I have a tentative friendship with-is JUST A FUCKING FRIEND.

I responded to the somewhat passive-aggressively stated issues with the, already made many times, statement that I was just friends with the person who invited us and while I totally respected their views, they didn't really pertain to me because I'm NOT looking to have anything more than friendship with ANY of the people in that house....

But.... how does this pertain to honesty?

Yeah-I know, sorry, major vent here....

The next day I had a text conversation with the person who invited us over-expressing to me how WONDERFULLY happy they were that we'd come over and how great it was to see us etc. They knew NOTHING about the roommate's upset (I brought it up)....

Today, Maca gets a series of texts telling him that this person is reluctant to get "reattached" to us (due to our relationship issues & that we are planning to move)........

We're talking about a FRIENDSHIP first of all.
Second of all-if you are reluctant, why are you repeatedly inviting us for more time to spend face to face "strengthening" the friendship.
Third-why didn't you bring that up before someone else started having a temper tantrum.

I really like this person. I like the fact that they are cool with kids being around (have one of their own)... I like the conversations we have.

But..... I just cant' get past the apparent lack of full honesty.......

I can't say this is a FACT;

But, I feel like a "dirty little secret" the way the conversations are going. That feeling, wanting to stop being that "dirty little secret" and wanting to stop HAVING a "dirty little secret" is what led me down the polyamory path in the first fucking place 18 months ago. :(

It's so emotionally taxing that the only people who I don't feel that way with-who aren't family (my family and Maca's are totally accepting);
are in the lower 48 or other countries.

[sage]

Thanks for the link (mono and LR)

I hope that getting this down and hopefully normalized hormones will bring you some peace.

There's an old English saying "there's nothing as daft as folk" . I think this fits your incident with these people quite well.

The only other thing I can suggest is "look for the opportunity in all of this." Sometimes it takes a while for the waters to clear.

I'm like you. I haven't got time for dishonest people. It does keep the numbers of actual, physical people in my life limited somewhat, especially now that I'm working from home and there are no kids around. Still, I prefer that than wasting my time on 'stupid people' and their dramas.

Oh and just remembered something else that might help. Other people's ideas about us are not our business. Our business is to live our life to it's maximum potential. In order to do that we have to able to unhook their fish hooks from our backs otherwise they will just keep reeling us in. I know it's easier said than done.

Take care of yourself

[LovingRadiance]

Now THAT is an EXCELLENT quote Sage! I like it a lot!

This is going to be all out of order, sorry. My mind is spinning with everything that is going on!

I got SpicyPea and the baby loaded up on the plane this morning. She texted to let me know she'd made it safely to Seattle a few minutes ago.

Maca got the opportunity to plan a date with his FWB this afternoon. He was looking forward to that. It was ironic, cause he had a rough morning yesterday and I texted her to see if she might be able to talk to him, meet up, give him a hug and kiss; cause I was trying to catch up on homework. She wasn't able to meet up yesterday, but they were able to make plans for a little time today.
(She's in the same town as him now, where as I'm 50 miles away).

Anyway, that was cool. :)

I dropped two bags of clothes off at the consignment shop this afternoon. Then, when I got home I bagged up another bag of baby clothes that will all be too small for the baby by the time they get home (they won't be returning til May 21st). So, tomorrow I can drop those off too. :)

GG finished the work on the room upstairs. SaltyPea helped me get GG's dresser, bed and bedside tables moved up this evening. I still have to move two book cases, an entertainment center and a shitload of boxes up. But, it's a start. We also got SourPea's bookshelf and books moved down. She's moving all her stuffed animals to the livingroom couch as I type so that we can move her bed down. :)

It will be nice to have her back in her own room again and not sharing with her brother!

I'm still pretty hormonal. Saying goodbye to a teary-eyed daughter and the new grandbaby was a little tough-but no tears fell. Just emotional.

Tomorrow Maca has an appointment out here at 4 to look at a 1bdrm apartment. He asked if I wanted to go with him and I said I'd love to, so we'll get to see each other for a little bit tomorrow evening.

We (Maca and I) had a good talk last night. I was in tears. He was patient, it's hard to talk when you are crying. He let me take my time getting the words out of what was on my mind, what I was worrying about. We talked through some of my concerns and were able to set out some specific plans in our "goals" to work on the details of how to resolve the issues I've been worrying about. It was helpful to be able to just talk it out.

Now, I gotta get back to moving furniture....

[MrFarFromRight]

I find that I don't WANT to make the effort to make friends. Because I keep realizing that the people I'm opening myself to, are more committed to being comfortable and accepted, than they are to being honest and real.Present company excepted, I hope! I know that it's only a fledgling on-line friendship (so far), but I do hope that we're being honest with each other.It's so emotionally taxing that the only people who I don't feel that way with-who aren't family (my family and Maca's are totally accepting) are in the lower 48 or other countries.(my added underlining) Oh, so there's hope for me after all...Today, Maca gets a series of texts telling him that this person is reluctant to get "reattached" to us (due to our relationship issues & that we are planning to move)........

We're talking about a FRIENDSHIP first of all.
Second of all-if you are reluctant, why are you repeatedly inviting us for more time to spend face to face "strengthening" the friendship.
Third-why didn't you bring that up before someone else started having a temper tantrum.

I really like this person. I like the fact that they are cool with kids being around (have one of their own)... I like the conversations we have.

But..... I just cant' get past the apparent lack of full honesty.......2 possibilities occur to me:
a) Your "3rd person" is interested in more than "just friendship"... and your making clear to the meddling tenants (MTs: hey! just read that out loud...) that you're not looking for more has cooled that interest.

b) You're a stronger person than this person, and they can't deal as firmly with the MTs as you can. (The MTs do seem to be the sort that keep picking at old scabs again and again, but maybe the 3rd person is new to this particular tantrum... Added to which, they all live under the same roof! Hard to avoid frequent contact.) ITC (In this case), practice patience with spineless scaredycats who have some redeeming features. (But tell them - and the MTs - that you won't stand for a lot of this nonsense!)On top of ALL of that-I've addressed this issue NUMEROUS TIMES since last June with this person and her SO. That in fact the 3rd party whom I have a tentative friendship with-is JUST A FUCKING FRIEND.I do so hope, Muh Deeyah, that you didn't use exactly that choice of words! Talk about contradictory messages...

[LovingRadiance]

Ok Mr,
that last line was just hysterically funny.

In truth the 3rd person is potentially interested in more, and I'm sure you haven't been able to read my blog THAT FAR BACK-it'd take you a year! But, she knows that am potentially interested in more with her as well.

HOWEVER-not right now.

I'm a...
....
...
needy lover (for lack of a better word).

I don't want a lover if I can't see them at least a couple times a week EVERY WEEK as a rule of thumb.
This person is available for a face to face visit a couple times a month if I'm lucky.

I can do that limitation with FRIENDS - but I'm not interested in doing that with a lover.

As for the MT's-well, I honestly think that the issue is that THEY are interested in more with her AND with Maca. They aren't getting more with EITHER-so they're frightened and intimidated by our "budding" friendship.

One of the things that struck me was the comment about "new relationships".
This isn't a "new" relationship. We've been building this friendship since June of last year!

And the she in question does happen to be a more.. conservative person in the sense that she isn't as outspoken as I am by half. She did set down some boundaries so to speak after the fact (which I found out about after I wrote on here). I'm just a bit... more outspoken and to the point, she's more polite, gentle and likely to nudge where I'll toss ya off the diving board. ;)

As for friends, I am quite honest-sometimes brutally so I've been told.
And yes,
I seem quite capable of making friends online.

I honestly think that part of the issue is that people are more willing and able to be honest online (with their REAL lives in anonymity) than they are in real life. If you know what I mean.

That's fine-until you are face to face. Then it gets a bit complicated. :rolleyes:

[MrFarFromRight]

As for friends, I am quite honest-sometimes brutally so I've been told.
And yes,
I seem quite capable of making friends online.

I honestly think that part of the issue is that people are more willing and able to be honest online (with their REAL lives in anonymity) than they are in real life. If you know what I mean.

That's fine-until you are face to face. Then it gets a bit complicated. :rolleyes:Soooooooo............. let's see how honest we can be with each other (but not necessarily brutal, you know how I feel about BDSM:(:o) when you come to visit. Keep practicing the long walks with SourPea! You got any mountains to practice on?
J

[LovingRadiance]

We do have mountains to practice on, but not til the snow melts. I don't own skis or snowshoes. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

Lame weekend.

Maca cancelled our Friday date on account of his room having a twin size bed and both of us having back pain.

He came out today to pick the kids up. We sat here together (the two of us) for an awkward and stilted couple of hours. Now they're on the way to town.

Today is 18 years for GG and I. He's on call for work and has to go out later to do some work stuff. No plans.

So-just a lame day, lame weekend, lame week.

Suffice it to say, I'm not looking forward to the rest of the month either.

[SNeacail]

Hugs!

[LovingRadiance]

Thanks. I had a nice talk on the phone with my mom today. GG is working on printing up my mom's invitations to her graduation (college), so she can send them out this week. She's pretty excited.

Unfortunately, my sister brought it to my attention that my stepmother sent our oldest son a FB message. Told him that my dad and her deposited money in his bank account (bday gift). That would be fine, except they neglected to even call the younger son for his bday (in February) and we have always had a TIGHT rule on playing favorites particularly since we have a "his, mine and ours" household. It just creates animosity between the kids.

Soooooo, now there's this stupid mess to talk about. :(

Maca told me Thursday that the reason he doesn't talk to me is because I always want to talk about "problems"...

I'm so frustrated. I don't want to talk about problems. It's just OUR JOB TO RESOLVE the damn problems in our family, how the hell do we do that together if we don't talk about it?

I feel like sitting down to cry. I'd go take a bath, but the hormones FINALLY got around to starting my time of the month and the idea of sitting in icky water.... well that's icky. :(

I don't know what to say to Maca right now.

I understand we need time to "just be" (which is what our Friday nights are supposed to be, "date night"). But, there's also a lot of fucking shit that needs to be dealt with in order for our family to be able to get on track together. PLUS all of the NORMAL day to day b.s. that has to be negotiated and handled in a family....
What the hell am I supposed to do? I just don't know.

I don't feel like I can say ANYTHING now. If I say ANYTHING-it's going to relate somehow to a "problem" we need to deal with... but the other option is to "surface" the conversations into 1st or 2nd level (reference from The 7 Levels of Intimacy book by Matthew Kelly) of intimacy, which is basically worthless in terms of a deep meaningful relationship.

I admittedly feel pretty fucking hopeless right now regarding our relationship-which in turn impacts everything else in my life.

It's GG and my's anniversary. But, honestly, what I really want to do tonite is have a drink, curl up in my sleeping bag and go to sleep.... by myself. I don't feel like being someone's lover. I just want to be alone.
:(

That doesn't seem so fair to GG. But, it may be what I do anyway, because it's my job to take care of me right?

[nycindie]

Hmm. LR, first of all to say someone is "always" doing this or that is obviously an exaggeration. Of course, that's not all you talk about, but you are the manager of the household, a 24-hour job, and need to discuss things with your partners.

And besides, you don't have to hold back and censor what you need to talk about just because Maca is uncomfortable with hearing it. At the risk of sounding kinda funny and convoluted, his problem with your "always" talking about "problems" is just that -- his problem, but he's tried to make it your problem, as if you now need to change your behavior. But that's a passive-aggressive way to get out of the responsibility of listening to you, truly hearing what you have to say, and doing what needs to be done. I don't think he did this purposely, he's probably just not comfortable with consistently looking at issues, I guess.

But really, as long as you communicate clearly and lovingly, you shouldn't have to change a thing. Why doesn't he try changing his perspective and approach to hearing what you need to tell him? Since he is the one who sees your need to discuss important family and relationship matters as a problem, I would say he's the one who need to work on it.


((((BIG HUGS))))

[LovingRadiance]

I don't believe that there's much point in saying I'm in a poly-relationship anymore.
Maca has acknowledged to me today that he is in fact distancing himself from me and pulling away from me. He says it's because he doesn't want to see (or hear about) my relationship with GG.

I'm hurt.

Our conversation ended when he said, "I don't rape you every day". Yes, that's true. But, I don't cheat or lie every day either. In fact I haven't done so in 18 months and he's acknowledged that he has continued to struggle with being fully honest with me.

He doesn't see the comparison, I can't not see the comparison.
It's beyond destructive for me that he continues to excuse his past mistakes by saying that he doesn't do it anymore.
But, he can't forgive me my past mistakes even though he knows I don't do it anymore either.

I don't see any way to resolve our differences. I've searched and attempted to find ways that I can change to make things easier for him. I've tried to help him find ways to learn to deal with me.

But, the bottom line is-he hates GG. He believes he has every right to hate GG, which is true. I believe that hating GG is only destroying our lives, which is also true. There's nothing left for me to do.

After he sped out of the driveway this evening, leaving our kids in emotional upheaval again, I texted him that from now on we can make exchanges of the kids somewhere else, but I don't want him to come back to the house or driveway anymore.

My heart is broken.
I have lost faith in relationships.
I have lost faith in trying.
I've lost hope.

If it wouldn't be more devastating for the kids, I'd end the relationship with GG as well. I simply don't want to have a romantic relationship at all. However, I think that GG and I can manage to terminate the romantic relationship without him having to abandon the family. So, that is what I intend to do.

[ray]

I'm so sorry, LR. (((Hugs)))

[nycindie]

WTF??? What happened? I thought you two were moving toward some sort of better, more mindful place where things were being repaired. Wasn't that the point of moving out, making all those lists, working on stuff together and separately?

How can he hate GG after he saw the good things he did for the family when your daughter was having her baby? Didn't Maca praise and express appreciation for GG when he saw what a stand-up guy he is?

What could have caused this turn-around, I wonder? Do you think he's being influenced by someone with poisonous opinions?

Omigosh, I am so sorry, LR!!! But don't make any decisions now, really, you're in no state for decision-making. Just be. I wouldn't break it off with GG if I were you, he has always been so supportive, don't leave yourself dangling with no one.

(((((((BIG, GIANT HUGS)))))))

[BlackUnicorn]

My heart is broken.
I have lost faith in relationships.
I have lost faith in trying.
I've lost hope.

If it wouldn't be more devastating for the kids, I'd end the relationship with GG as well. I simply don't want to have a romantic relationship at all. However, I think that GG and I can manage to terminate the romantic relationship without him having to abandon the family. So, that is what I intend to do.

Oh fuck, this is bad.

Distance & time. Don't make life-altering decisions right now. If you break up with anyone at this point it might be hard to take back later.

[LovingRadiance]

I'm so sorry, LR. (((Hugs))) Thank you. Right now a real life hug would be amazing. Don't get me wrong, the kids rock at giving them random (and kisses) but it's not really reasonable to break down and sob on your kids shoulder.

[QUOTE]WTF??? What happened? I thought you two were moving toward some sort of better, more mindful place where things were being repaired. Wasn't that the point of moving out, making all those lists, working on stuff together and separately?That's what I thought too. But, he started pulling away and distancing himself from me-beyond that. He cancelled our date night Friday. Blew off the goal meeting Saturday. I asked him (in tears) yesterday about it, told him it felt like he was shutting me out and I didn't know what I'd done wrong.
He informed me that he was shutting me out and that he simply doesn't want to see or hear anything about my relationship with GG.

Near the end I was telling him that I understand how hard it is to let go of the past and forgive someone so you can move on because I had to decide to do that with him. I had to face the fact that to be with him meant accepting and forgiving completely, because every day it's his hands that touch me, the same hands that raped me, his body, his face, all the same that raped me. If I didn't actually face down the whole thing and work through every issue, there's no way I could have come back to him all of those years ago and spent all of these years with him.
He got vindictive and spat out at me, "Yeah, but I don't rape you every day." I shut the door and he sped out of here, truck spitting gravel in the air.

What I didn't say was, "You're right and I haven't cheated, lied, or dishonored you in any way since September 25th, 2009. But, I'm still suffering the punishment of your hatred."

How can he hate GG after he saw the good things he did for the family when your daughter was having her baby? I guess you'll have to ask him that. In my opinion the answer is becuase it's easier to hate GG than it is to admit that he's responsible for his own life and if it sucks, it's his own fault. If his relationships are failing, one after another, it's his own fault. It's easier to blame the scapegoat (GG) then face that he's choosing to destroy his life.
BUT-that's just my opinion.

Didn't Maca praise and express appreciation for GG when he saw what a stand-up guy he is? Yes, yes he did.

What could have caused this turn-around, I wonder? Do you think he's being influenced by someone with poisonous opinions? He does this so repeatedly its like a fucking merry-go-round. Every couple of weeks. When he's forced to face the facts, he knows that GG IS a stand up guy, DOES love everyone in this family and HAS CONTINUED to put everything he has into helping this family, the WHOLE family survive-Maca included.
BUT-when he's forced to face that HE HAS TO ADMIT THAT HE FUCKED UP HIS OWN RELATIONSHIPS, he flees in the face of the work that goes along with fixing himself and suddenly it's all about hating GG again.


Oh fuck, this is bad.

Distance & time. Don't make life-altering decisions right now. If you break up with anyone at this point it might be hard to take back later.

I did break it off with GG. He's being completely understanding that what I need from him now-is a friend, not a lover.

Thankfully, in that one relationship, I choose well. I choose a man who understands that just because you can't be a couple at a given moment doesn't mean you don't love each other
AND
just because you love each other doesn't mean that you're capable of being together at any given moment.

He's committed to the family, not to the sexual aspect of our relationship. He's helping me get the rest of the stuff out of the garage, then we're going to convert it to a bedroom for me.

[MonoVCPHG]

Sorry to hear this LR :(

I've got to ask something and you don't need to answer. Why did you break it off with GG? RP says she understands but I am at a loss as to how this helps. I know GG understands but is it really fair to him?

I hope you are ok.

Take care Pretty Lady

[redpepper]

Lots of love to you and all your family LR. I totally get why you would break it off with GG. To me my men are a merge of each other in a lot of ways. I have a joke that when I want them both to come I call them by the merge of their names. I get it.

[LovingRadiance]

No, it's not fair to him. But it's also not fair to him or anyone else for me to not be "real".
Real right now is that I'm in no position to uphold the responsibilities of being a girlfriend.
Our relationship is based on the reality that we're committed to each other for life-regardless of what DYNAMIC we have.

So, to quote GG, "the dynamic has changed, that's all".

It's changed many times, it may change many more.

[LovingRadiance]

Lots of love to you and all your family LR. I totally get why you would break it off with GG. To me my men are a merge of each other in a lot of ways. I have a joke that when I want them both to come I call them by the merge of their names. I get it.

Very much so. I love both of them. When you take one away, I fall apart. Maca doesn't get it at all. He can't understand why I would "break up with GG when I'm out of the picture" as he said.
But, that's the point I suppose-he doesn't get it.

He's writing me today about how he knows he's fucked up blah blah blah, but we've been down this road before. I love him, but to quote someone else,

"the time for words is over, the time for action has long since arrived."

[BlackUnicorn]

I just want to tell you LR how much I admire you. I come from a culture which places a huge emphasis on family closeness and responsibility. It warms me to my core to see someone (not just you, others on this forum too) really put their family first.

I totally get the temporary break-up with GG. You've weathered 18 (?) years, this is just a different phase in your relationship.

[MrFarFromRight]

Right now a real life hug would be amazing.Sorry, but my arms aren't that long:(. Will you take a rain check? (Hold me to this - it's waiting for you:).)It's easier to blame the scapegoat (GG) than face that he's choosing to destroy his life.

BUT-when he's forced to face that HE HAS TO ADMIT THAT HE FUCKED UP HIS OWN RELATIONSHIPS, he flees in the face of the work that goes along with fixing himself and suddenly it's all about hating GG again.This sucks! But it's so human.

I haven't read all of your earlier stuff, so the bit about rape comes as a real shock to me. It seems that Maca is now in that stereotype position of the divorced father who hasn't got to deal with the day-to-day problems (Are the kids eating healthily? Are they treating each other well? How are they coping with the break-up?...), gets to show up when it suits him (OK, I suppose that you've worked out a schedule... but just who's holding the fort if :rolleyes:"something came up":rolleyes:?), take them for a hamburger, an ice-cream (maybe not in your climate just now), a movie... and come across as "Dear Daddy!:):)" who's fun!!!, while you're the sergeant-major:mad: who lays down the rules at home.

Easy to complain that you only talk about problems when he's skipped out on the problems:cool:...I did break it off with GG. He's being completely understanding that what I need from him now-is a friend, not a lover.

Thankfully, in that one relationship, I choose well. I choose a man who understands that just because you can't be a couple at a given moment doesn't mean you don't love each other
AND
just because you love each other doesn't mean that you're capable of being together at any given moment.

He's committed to the family, not to the sexual aspect of our relationship. He's helping me get the rest of the stuff out of the garage, then we're going to convert it to a bedroom for me.This bit makes me both happy and sad. Happy that you've got somebody who's not going to abandon you or the family because he doesn't get his ration of nookie. Sad because I agree with another poster that it's a decision made in haste (no, sorry: this has been dragging on, I know) and it seems - to me - that you're making GG (and yourself?) pay for Maca's sins.

I hope that you both consider this a temporary break-up. (But in that case, wouldn't you have used the wording: "I told GG that I needed to back off for a while, to put the sex on hold, to concentrate on myself...")

I remember your writing that GG held you while you cried the night that Maca walked out. I hope that that's still possible between you two, because you do need hugs.

[Pass on a message to GG (you wrote that he doesn't log in here that often) from MFFR: "Please, Mister! Give this woman a hug from me." (This does not count as a debit on your account with me. And tell GG that this one doesn't count as a debit on your account with him, either. It's a freebee:)!)]

And LR: Give GG a hug from me as well: he deserves it! (You're now studying Maths, right? This makes TWO [separate] hugs!;))

p.s. I read this thread after I sent you the PM.

[LovingRadiance]

I just want to tell you LR how much I admire you. I come from a culture which places a huge emphasis on family closeness and responsibility. It warms me to my core to see someone (not just you, others on this forum too) really put their family first.

I totally get the temporary break-up with GG. You've weathered 18 (?) years, this is just a different phase in your relationship.

Yes. We've weathered 18 crazy, fun-filled, sometimes heartbreaking, definitely full of learning experiences years.
We know that our souls are connected in a way that simply won't be undone. We accept that in order for our lives to remain connected as well-we have to be willing to go with the ebb and flow, move with the tides so to speak.

He took the couch, made his bed, cleaned his room and set it up the way I would prefer so that I could have some privacy and personal space while I struggle through my hurts.
He's helping me create a room for me out of the garage.
He's patiently caring for me from whatever distance I need in order to feel the CARE and not feel pressured. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

Mr.FFR-
More response after I take a shower.

GG and I don't specify "temporary" versus "permanent" because we've already accepted that there isn't such a thing as "permanent" when it comes to SITUATIONS. ;)

So, do I foresee this being temporary? Yes.
Do I know how long "temporary" is? No.
Do I know the precise details of WHAT the change is? No.

I just know that I need some space from expectations and responsibilities in some area and the area of the kids isn't optional-so, that leaves the adult relationships, of which GG is the key one.

Is our friendship secure and sound? Yes.
But-I didn't ever doubt that.

Maybe later I'll post a little "history on us" in here...

There are other threads out there-and I've asked a couple of the mods to help me move them all to this thread, so that they are one. I didn't know when I first started posting that it would end up being so confusing having separate threads about our "life" all over the place.
I did the work to FIND the threads, but I'm not a moderator-so I can't move them. Unfortunately, merging them all together is a huge job (I assume). So, I'm not putting any pressure on the mods to move them all in any particular timeline-because they already have lives of their own and cleaning up my mess, well, it's not really their job.
So I'm at the mercy of their time and freedom. ;)

[MrFarFromRight]

LR: Yay! You're on-line! I've been waiting for you to show up...;):):p:rolleyes:

[LovingRadiance]

I gotta run and take a shower (water is already running).
But, I'll be back in about 30 minutes or so. ;)

[Breathesgirl]

This just totally sucks!

You'll come out the other side stronger and wiser for the experience.

HUGS!!!!!!!

Feel better soon.

Give the munchkins some hugs too, it'll make you all feel a wee bit better just knowing that the other is there.

[BrigidsDaughter]

*HUGS* I am sorry that you are going through this, LR.

[LovingRadiance]

Taking the kids for a walk today-with Maca. They need some time with their dad, I need to get out of the house and I need the exercise. Hoping that the fact that we aren't sitting and staring will make it somewhat less awkward and uncomfortable.

I miss him. It's hard.

Today should be our date night-but no date tonight. :(

[SNeacail]

Hugs!

[Morningglory629]

Taking the kids for a walk today-with Maca. They need some time with their dad, I need to get out of the house and I need the exercise. Hoping that the fact that we aren't sitting and staring will make it somewhat less awkward and uncomfortable.

I miss him. It's hard.

Today should be our date night-but no date tonight. :(

Me neither!:(:( Maybe instead of lunch we do tele-pseudo date night!

I guess you'll have to ask him that. In my opinion the answer is becuase it's easier to hate GG than it is to admit that he's responsible for his own life and if it sucks, it's his own fault. If his relationships are failing, one after another, it's his own fault. It's easier to blame the scapegoat (GG) then face that he's choosing to destroy his life.

Wow. You are right. Maca is really off the rails. What the Hell is he thinking?! As usual it seems his timing sucks- not that there is ever a GOOD time to distance yourself from your nuclear family.

[sage]

Hi LR

I've been following your journey lately although I may have missed some strategic bits.

Can I give you a bit of feedback as an observer?

I'm wondering if Maca 'hating' GG is how his discomfort with your relationship is
manifesting? In other words your relationship isn't failing because he hates GG but Maca hates GG because your relationship with him failing.

Polyamory is an easy scapegoat for fundamental relationship problems. I'm trying to say this gently because I have great respect for you and I know you're in a lot of pain which I don't want to add to. But if you read back over your posting, some of it may also be on your other blog, it is very centred about what you want and your plans. This may just be the way you have expressed it but i wonder how much input into all your plans Maca has had?
Sometimes we can push too far in the opposite direction in reaction to what has been before.

When Maca responded to your issues with going to Orlando he actually sounded very lucid and grounded to me.

You obviously really miss Maca. When a relationship has reached it's conclusion you don't miss them, you're relieved to have them gone (my experience anyway) If I was you I would ask him how he is, and what he wants for his life. I would try and love him for Maca the person and not Maca the partner.

[Morningglory629]

The problem is LR wasn't feeling that the relationship was at an end, rather at a juncture (this is my perspective, I may be off base).

The question is LR...is Maca feeling it is over or is this an ultimatum kind of situation?

[Magdlyn]

LR sorry things are falling apart. May I ask a couple questions, because I am confused?

So you and Maca have been together 10 years or so? I read you mention you 2 get it on sexually 28 days a month. So, he's a stud, that's awesome. You must miss his touch tho.

And at some point, you met and got with GG, on the side, not in agreed upon polyamory. And GG and you are in a power exchange relationship, you Mistress, him slave.

Are you and Maca also in a BDSM relationship? Is he your Dom? If he is, would that make your cheating, and getting his understanding and forgiveness, that much worse?

How does Maca feel about you having a D/s relationship w GG? Is that part of your issues, or am I way off base? If Maca is vanilla, otoh, that could also be a problem?

[maca]

This is LR's thread and Im not even sure its polite of me to write in it, but Ill answer a few questions and maybe help Mr get a better idea of the Father I am.

I very much have always felt that being with LR meant no compromise on the whole GG and her cheating for ten years and it being ok now because its in the open. I felt I had no choice, I would lose my kids and wife if I didnt go along. I tried for 18 fucking months.

Yes I was LR's Dom, No I wasnt happy about her wanting to be GG's mistress. The whole mistress/slave thing came up in order for LR to salvage the relationship with GG ( when they broke up, when she was in Spokane). He never wanted it, only did it to keep her. I cant say that I dont understand going WAY out on a limb to stay close to someone that you love. I tried to do it also.

LR and I talked today about our relationship and she maintains that in order for me to be with her I have to let go of my issues with her being in a romantic relationship with GG. I told her I have tried and that the scar is so deep. She went on to talk about "wanting to forgive" "wanting to make things work". I got real with her, I told her that the thing is " I dont feel a drive to forgive him" " I dont like or want to be reminded of the affair or there romantic relationship". With LR I wanted to forgive, I did forgive. With GG, its just not there. He is a good guy, him and I get along just fine when its not involving LR. We work well as a team. There is just to much that is wrong with me, I cant break through the hurt and anger.

As for the weekend Daddy thing. You have no idea the tears I shed at night. The lump that forms in my throat every time I have to say good bye to them. The hour long drive back to my lonely one room apt feels like walking through a fire pit that is covered in broken glass. Mr, I know that your smitten with LR, she is easy to get smitten with. You should step back a bit and think about how much you know about me, from me, before you form your opinions of me and then make them public. There is really nothing more for me to say.


Maca

[nycindie]

Hi Maca, I hope you don't mind some feedback from me. When you say you can't break through the hurt and anger, I understand and can relate to it. But most of the time, there is a reason why we keep negative feelings around instead of feeling them and letting them burn out. It's like picking at a scab again and again. Because we get something out of it. So, maybe you might want to ask yourself what you get out of revisiting and holding onto the hurt and anger.

Most of the time, it's about stuff like not losing a sense of control over a situation. Do you think if you let it go, you would be dashed to bits and not have any authority in your relationship?

Or we hold onto anger because we feel "right" about being angry, justified, and if we let it go, we lose that indignant righteousness that pumped us up a little bit. It can be an almost addictive kind of satisfaction to feel righteous about something. But in life we basically have two choices: to be right or be alive. To have aliveness means letting go of the need to be right.

I say this to be helpful. I think it's sad that you cannot be as accepting of GG as LR is of your girlfriend. The fact that you even have this girlfriend tells me the hurt and anger you hold onto is a choice you're making, not a response in the moment anymore. Do you get what I'm saying? It will take a lot of work, but when you love someone and the family you've created with them, wouldn't it be worth it to stop being so angry and hurt? You can choose that, you know -- and ultimately that means you'd really be in control instead of controlled by the anger and hurt you keep around. You would be free.

(((Hugs to you & all of you)))

[maca]

When you have a scab that is annoying you and you keep picking at it what do you do? You put a bandaid on it. You remove it from your sight and work on healing the wound.

From the time that they started the affair he was always near. Always LR had a thing for him going. He has lived in our house for years and years. I spent the first several years taking care of him financially while he was at home trying to help LR school the kids. We never had a chance to heal our relationship. Always a reminder right there. Its not even about him being a bad guy. He would be a friend if he wasnt/hadnt slept with LR while we were not poly.

It really does make a difference to me that LR and I move into other partners as a team. I know, I know everyone is going to say ... "Well the reality is GG and LR didnt start a romantic dynamic in the open, they cheated and lied,but there not anymore, so get over it already and move on. " God I wish it was that easy. Ive tried.

Some people see my back and forth emotional state as being unstable and having personal "issues". The fact of it is, what your seeing ( or rather reading about) is the struggle I have every day that I have to face them as lovers. Some days I manage to work through it , but the scar and the pain is refreshened. Other days the accumaltion of the past few weeks overwhelms me and I crack open like an egg dropped from the top of a ladder.

I do have a very competitive side to me, its one of the reasons LR fell in love with me. I protect that which I care about and I hold on tightly to that which I love. More reasons why LR fell in love with me. The same reasons that she fell in love with me our the reasons that we I cant forgive and get over GG. A different time,place and circumstance things would be completely different.

I dont know what to do anymore. I know that LR has made promises and commitments to GG and she wont break those.But how do I live and not break my promises and commitments to LR with this Ever Presistent Pain?


Maca

[sage]

Hi Maca, nice to meet you,

I think it's good when couples can communicate together via a blog but out of respect to LR I won't keep responding unless she comes on and says she's OK with it.

I will say that it sounds to me like you never worked through all the pain when you first found out about their affair. You thought you had no choice but to accept GG and that has just festered under the surface all this time. I found it much easier to come to terms with my partner's other relationship after he said he would give it up if I couldn't deal with it. When I got to that point he did try and give it up, he gave it a really good go but it seemed that just his honest attempt to try was enough for me to be able to turn around my coping mechanisms.

I sense you feel like you were the only one of the three of you feeling the pain over LR's relationship with CG. By you moving out the pain has been shared. Maybe this is your starting point? I don't know, other people's issues always seem more clear than one's own.

I wish you all (all three of you) the very best.

[SNeacail]

Hugs Maca,

What I have learned in trying to repair my own marriage is that we basically have to start from scratch. Which really kinda sucks, because it's much more fun at the beginning when NRE is in full swing. It's like we are getting to know each other all over again, sure he knows that I don't like mustard, it only took him 12 years to figure that out :eek:, but we have had to stop assuming anything about each other. Sometimes I feel like walking in the door and introducing myself "Hi, I'm SN. It looks like we are going to be living together. What in the hell are we supposed to do and how do we do it? OMG, there are how many kids, at WHAT ages? :eek:"

We actually have to sit down and have discussions on simple stuff. Stuff we always thought each other knew about us and how we function, our goals (for the year, for life and for the kids). It has helped, because when we don't stop ourselves from assuming we end up back in a huge fight about the past, which makes both of us feel like any progress we have made was just tossed out the window.

The visions I had about marriage and my life have been tossed out the window. Now it time to sit down, and say this is what I have to work with, this is what I want, how do I put it all together and make it function. Is it possible? Probably, but not in any typical traditional format. Stepping back can be helpful in the long run.

Hugs and support to both you and LR. Marriage itself is a bitch, one sitting on top of a volcano is even trickier.

[Morningglory629]

He is a good guy, him and I get along just fine when its not involving LR. We work well as a team. There is just to much that is wrong with me, I cant break through the hurt and anger.

As for the weekend Daddy thing. You have no idea the tears I shed at night. The lump that forms in my throat every time I have to say good bye to them. The hour long drive back to my lonely one room apt feels like walking through a fire pit that is covered in broken glass. There is really nothing more for me to say.


Maca

Ach sweetie read these sentences. You wrote them. Read them.

Just stop the insanity of living in regret and remorse and anger and hate. You have got 9- count em 9 people committed to you and your tribe.

No one is judging YOU- just some of your behaviors. And not judging in an accusatory way just in a dumbfounded way. You are a sexy, strong, hardworking, loving man. Just don't go all Charlie Sheen and love destructively- or violently. It ain't winning Mr. Competitor.

Take a page from someone who does know you (Mono). Be happy in all the little moments. Don't dwell on the "what should be's" That is a control issue. You may be LR's Dom but you aren't life's Dom. Sometimes YOU have to get over it to get what YOU want. Love and peace to you darling. Glad you read along on here. Good to know you aren't completely disconnected. Hugs.

MG

[BlackUnicorn]

Is it financially unthinkable at this point for all of you to get into a housing arrangement LR has talked about as her dream situation, where GG would live on his own, LR and Maca would have their own apartment and your eldest with grand baby her own, but everyone would live in close proximity to one another?

I'm thinking of re-modeling a farm or maybe buying a row of houses somewhere a bit isolated. Some such are available every now and then.

[MrFarFromRight]

This is LR's thread and Im not even sure its polite of me to write in it, but Ill answer a few questions and maybe help Mr get a better idea of the Father I am. [...] As for the weekend Daddy thing. You have no idea the tears I shed at night. The lump that forms in my throat every time I have to say good bye to them. The hour long drive back to my lonely one room apt feels like walking through a fire pit that is covered in broken glass. Mr, I know that your smitten with LR, she is easy to get smitten with. You should step back a bit and think about how much you know about me, from me, before you form your opinions of me and then make them public. There is really nothing more for me to say.


MacaMaca, I owe you an apology. A few days ago, I spent a few hours formulating a new thread to be entitled ":(Sniping, point-scoring, and jumping to conclusions on polyamory.com". It then got moved into an already begun thread. My post is here (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=76885#post76885). I followed it up with a 2nd post which started out: "To forestall accusations that I’m a hypocrite, that I myself am guilty of attacking or belittling others on this board, allow me to state: [...]"

And you've caught me out. I wasn't attacking you directly, but I was jumping to conclusions about you on LR's thread... and that's even worse. So not only do I owe you an apology, I owe you a public apology.

I'm sorry. I know how it feels to be separated from children that you love. It's happened to me, too.

I sincerely hope that it works out for ALL of you.

MrPutMyFootInMyMouth:o

[LovingRadiance]

I'm wondering if Maca 'hating' GG is how his discomfort with your relationship is
manifesting? In other words your relationship isn't failing because he hates GG but Maca hates GG because your relationship with him failing.

You obviously really miss Maca. When a relationship has reached it's conclusion you don't miss them, you're relieved to have them gone (my experience anyway) If I was you I would ask him how he is, and what he wants for his life. I would try and love him for Maca the person and not Maca the partner.

I would agree about him hating GG because our relationship is "failing", not the other way around. But-he is dead set that the only reason our relationship is failing is because of GG.

Also-I agree on the last part. I have asked him (repeatedly) and again this morning what it is that HE wants and what HE needs etc. He says he wants to be happy, secure and to trust me. But, he won't give me any more than that.

He told me Friday he wanted me to put my relationship with GG on hold for 6 months. I agreed, including agreeing to move out-so that I'm not living with GG-even though that means leaving our kids with GG and Mimi and neither myself or Maca living here.

But-that didn't help. He threw it in my face that I'm "just goign through the motions"... Accused me of "playing with his head" as well.

Today he tells me he wasn't being fair or reasonable and that he takes back his request....

In the meantime, the kids are a wreck, Mimi and GG are both pissed off beyond belief about the whole thing (particularly the back and forth decisions), my brother is ticked off about beign asked if I can stay there and then rescheduled adn rescheduled and then cancelled-because of the wishy washy back and forth...

It's INSANITY.

Furthermore-the agreement was that he was goign to do therapy WEEKLY-but he hasn't been even one time since he moved out.
He was goign to work on his relationship wtih GG-just the two fo them. He won't even TALK to him.


HE says he wants to be a part of this family-doesn't want to take GG away from the kids or me, doesn't want to keep fighting etc.. but he won't STICK to the necessary steps to GET TO THAT POINT.

He makes a decision, then changes his mind as soon as the hard work starts. Repeatedly.

[ray]

I'm sorry, LR. That sounds really tough being stuck in a kind of relationship purgatory not knowing which way things are going. I hope that soon, all the parties involved can reach a good decision and get going down the path. I can't even imagine how difficult it must be for you and your household. :(

[LovingRadiance]

FYI-
I have no issue with any of you talking to Maca in this blog. It's our marriage, it's our life and I think it would be silly to try to have separate blogs-in this case.
The advise can be used by both of us-so it's silly to make people write it twice. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

[QUOTE]So you and Maca have been together 10 years or so? I read you mention you 2 get it on sexually 28 days a month. So, he's a stud, that's awesome. You must miss his touch tho.We've been together 13 years. Married for 12. He's awesome in bed and yes, I do miss his touch.

And at some point, you met and got with GG, on the side, not in agreed upon polyamory. And GG and you are in a power exchange relationship, you Mistress, him slave.GG and I've been friends for 18 years. I took his virginity 16 years ago. We had an affair after a series of fucked up events in my marriage with Maca.
Several attempts at being "just platonic" again have occurred in the years since-lasting anywhere from 3 months to over a year.

We didn't start a BDSM dynamic until last summer. However, the dynamic works very well. It's not really sexual in nature... for the most part it pertains only to behaviors of service. All in all, GG is a VERY VANILLA person.


Are you and Maca also in a BDSM relationship? Is he your Dom? If he is, would that make your cheating, and getting his understanding and forgiveness, that much worse?

We were, for a short period of time in the last year. He was my Dom. However Maca had issues with taking advantage of the role and using it in ways that were damaging to me-so I ended it. We were not involved in that lifestyle at any point prior to this last year, so it didn't pertain to the cheating etc.


How does Maca feel about you having a D/s relationship w GG? Is that part of your issues, or am I way off base? If Maca is vanilla, otoh, that could also be a problem?Maca approved and agreed to my D/s relationship with GG at the time it started. There were specific terms laid out in the contract (which you can see on GG's blog if you want to read it) that pertain to assuring that my dynamic with GG doesn't negatively affect my relationship with Maca and those boundaries haven't been broken.

The issues that Maca has with GG are issues based on the past which remains unresolved. He says they are resolved and then returns to his anger and hatred and blaming of GG for all of the issues that arise in our relationship.

Maca is anything but vanilla.

[LovingRadiance]

Is it financially unthinkable at this point for all of you to get into a housing arrangement LR has talked about as her dream situation, where GG would live on his own, LR and Maca would have their own apartment and your eldest with grand baby her own, but everyone would live in close proximity to one another?

I'm thinking of re-modeling a farm or maybe buying a row of houses somewhere a bit isolated. Some such are available every now and then.

No, it's not unthinkable. It can't happen this year-but it WAS our plan to do precisely that at the end of next summer. Unfortunately-Maca can't handle making plans and carrying out little steps. He's an all or nothing person. It's ALL right now-or it's not at all.
So-that is too far away for him.

With him already living in his own place now, the financial strain will mean that we can't afford to do that next summer.

He gets caught up in believing (based on his own fears) that what we've agreed to isn't goign to be "good enough" and then he gets so worked up over what he thinks I will "demand" after that, that he freaks out-flips out on the rest of us and starts throwing verbal darts at GG and I.

It's repetitive and it's destructive. Every step I take for us-gets thrown down the drain and flushed as he attacks me.

Where things stand today-

I don't trust him. He can't stick to a decision for a month-much less long enough for us to actually get anywhere with our lives.

I don't feel safe with him. Anytime he is scared or insecure he attacks me verbally.

He sent a text to me (on accident) that was intended for someone else. It started with "It's insane that I still love her."

He can't understand why that eroded my trust in him further OR why it leaves me doubting the point of making an effort with him.
I can't figure out how to explain it to him-because it's so obvious to me that saying that about me to other people is such a fucked up sign of disrespect and disregard...

He made specific requests of me this weekend. I agreed to them. Yet he continued to accuse me of not caring about him, not being willing to work with them, not being willing to compromise. He was degrading in his assessment of my intentions and generally expressed that he believed I was just fucking with him... I hear all of that and wonder WHY THE HELL would I keep trying? If he thinks that's who I am... why bother?

THen he tells me today-that he's changed his mind. He was being unreasonable and he's sorry.

WTF am I supposed to do with that? Three days of hell only to have him say he was being unreasonable and he's sorry? How long until it happens again?

[LovingRadiance]

I'm sorry, LR. That sounds really tough being stuck in a kind of relationship purgatory not knowing which way things are going. I hope that soon, all the parties involved can reach a good decision and get going down the path. I can't even imagine how difficult it must be for you and your household. :(

Thank you Ray. So do I.
I'm tired.
I'm ready to give up.
I feel like I'm the only one jumping through hoops-I know that isn't true-so I keep jumping-but God Damn it's exhausting.

[nycindie]

I don't feel safe with him. Anytime he is scared or insecure he attacks me verbally.

He sent a text to me (on accident) that was intended for someone else. It started with "It's insane that I still love her."

He can't understand why that eroded my trust in him further OR why it leaves me doubting the point of making an effort with him.
I can't figure out how to explain it to him-because it's so obvious to me that saying that about me to other people is such a fucked up sign of disrespect and disregard...

Ahh, dear, dear LR, I hate to say this but... pot meet kettle.

How is Maca's saying "It's insane that I still love her" any different from what you are writing about him here? Sure, perhaps he's saying it to people who know you and what you're saying here is to mostly anonymous people, but his saying that doesn't look disrespectful from where I sit.

Actually I thought it was a pretty cool comment that could mean exactly the opposite of what you thought - like that, "despite how insane it is, I love her and can't stop loving her." I saw it as acknowledging his love for you amidst all the craziness (which he is also acknowledging). Meanwhile you are analyzing his personality and detailing his fears and shortcomings as you see them, for all of us and him to read here, so I fail to see how his comment is so much worse than what you're doing, or disrespectful, or disregarding you in any way. Can't he vent to people like you can? It's difficult for Maca, too.

It's obvious you're pissed, but perhaps in this instance, you could cut him some slack. Just my two dinars.

[LovingRadiance]

Nycindie-

I agree, it's not different.

That's sort of my point.

He takes everything personal-but he doesn't accept that other people can be hurt by what he says too.

It's ok for him to say that it's all my fault or all GGs fault that our relationship is falling apart, because "it's true".
But-if I say that his words hurt me, then I'm being unfair.

The truth is that YES I did hurt him. YES I was wrong. YES I did fuck up. YES I did lie.

But-so did he.

If he wants to hold on to the grudge-that's his right, but it's not fair to say I should forgive him and let go of what he's done to me; but he gets to keep the grudge for what I've done to him.

Likewise-it's not ok to get pissed at me for talkign on here if he's doing the same thing elsewhere.

I don't really care who he talks to or what he says about me.

BUT

I do care that his "rules" for the relationship go both ways-i.e. he's responsible to live with them as well as me being responsible to live with them. I'm tired of the double standard.

[LovingRadiance]

I.E.

Abandoning me to deal w/his ex-wife and her threats against myself and my children, including two attempts at kidnapping my kids.

Abandoning me to deal with his son who was abusive due to emotional trauma caused by his parents b.s.

Accusing me of cheating for 2 years before I ever did ANYTHING to warrant the accusation.

Going out to the bars 3-4 nights a week to play pool with the guys "cause he was on a league" and expecting me to take care of the kids-but I'm not allowed to go out without him.

Telling me he wasn't going to pursue a relationship with someone-then doing it behind my back.

Telling me he wasn't going to take said person to our house (his choice, not my demand) and then doing it behind my back.

Starting a sexual relationship, making out etc-behind my back.

Creating boundary rules for a "poly boundary list agreement" and then breaking them.

It's easy for him to say that I should just understand when he makes a "mistake", but it's not something he will do in return.....

[Morningglory629]

It's insane not to love you. It's insane to not want to let go of anger and resentment. It's insane to not want to give up total control. It's insane to not look forward to the future, and plan for it. It's insane to fly by the seat of your pants because it only causes chaos and uncertainty.

Loving you...not insane.

Did you ever read Of Mice and Men LR? The control stuff just reminds of it. Not that this subject is light and amusing but I was reminded also of that Looney Tunes reference to Of Mice and Men with the Abominable Snowman. This link is just to get you to giggle AND not in anyway to poke fun at your current situation...well maybe it does but not in an intentionally malicious way, just to make you laugh and relax a little. (hugs)

http://youtu.be/2JlVqfC8-UI

[Magdlyn]

Ah, LR you and Maca must both be so exhausted. Sounds like there was quite a bit of boundary breaking on both side of the relationship over the years.

Thanks for the explanation about the D/s dynamics in your V.

Recently I read in the Personal Summaries thread that your youngest child is GG's by artificial insemination. I am amazed Maca would agree to you carrying GG's child, and raising her (?) co-operatively, yet still be so resentful of GG all along.

You sound like you need a break from all the fruitless arguing and pissiness. I see no point in anyone moving out of your house right now... poor GG, it seems like he's getting lost in the shuffle. What about his need for security?

Could you and Maca just not talk to or see each other (besides dropping kids off) for like a month or so? Just take a break and let the dust settle... It seems the more you try and talk to him and make plans, the worse things get.

[MrFarFromRight]

I don't feel safe with him. Anytime he is scared or insecure he attacks me verbally.

He sent a text to me (on accident) that was intended for someone else. It started with "It's insane that I still love her."

He can't understand why that eroded my trust in him further OR why it leaves me doubting the point of making an effort with him.
I can't figure out how to explain it to him-because it's so obvious to me that saying that about me to other people is such a fucked up sign of disrespect and disregard...Ahh, dear, dear LR, I hate to say this but... pot meet kettle.

How is Maca's saying "It's insane that I still love her" any different from what you are writing about him here? Sure, perhaps he's saying it to people who know you and what you're saying here is to mostly anonymous people, but his saying that doesn't look disrespectful from where I sit.

Actually I thought it was a pretty cool comment that could mean exactly the opposite of what you thought - like that, "despite how insane it is, I love her and can't stop loving her." I saw it as acknowledging his love for you amidst all the craziness (which he is also acknowledging). Meanwhile you are analyzing his personality and detailing his fears and shortcomings as you see them, for all of us and him to read here, so I fail to see how his comment is so much worse than what you're doing, or disrespectful, or disregarding you in any way. Can't he vent to people like you can? It's difficult for Maca, too.

It's obvious you're pissed, but perhaps in this instance, you could cut him some slack. Just my two dinars.@nycindie: While wanting to be careful about being fair to Maca (I don't actually LIKE the taste of my foot in my mouth), I think that I can understand LR's feeling like this... and perhaps for different reasons than those with which she has already replied to you. The way I understood that "why that eroded my trust in him further" (and I might be way off base here) was "Whenever Maca and I talk, he is full of accusations and doesn't tell me that he still loves me... And yet he's willing to tell OTHERS that he still loves me." IF that's the case - and I were in LR's position - it would seem to me like a power game (keeping LR wondering or doubting, not reassuring her that there is real love there).

[LovingRadiance]

[QUOTE]Ah, LR you and Maca must both be so exhausted. Sounds like there was quite a bit of boundary breaking on both side of the relationship over the years.Yes and Yes. :(


Recently I read in the Personal Summaries thread that your youngest child is GG's by artificial insemination. I am amazed Maca would agree to you carrying GG's child, and raising her (?) co-operatively, yet still be so resentful of GG all along.He flip flops. He decides on something, then fear of all of the "what if's" hits and he panicks, runs the other direction. This occurs in every aspect of his life except his career. It happens roughly every 2-4 weeks. I've logged it on a calendar because it's so predictable.


You sound like you need a break from all the fruitless arguing and pissiness. I see no point in anyone moving out of your house right now... That's exactly what I keep saying. I just need the pointless battle/drama to stop. I feel like I'm talkign to a wall. When I say that-he says I just don't give a shit about him. I can't care about him or anyone else if I can't even THINK STRAIGHT through the back and forth of the drama.

poor GG, it seems like he's getting lost in the shuffle. What about his need for security?I brought that up as well and was told that all I care about is GG and he's OBVIOUSLY more important to me because I was saying that his feelings and needs deserved to be considered EQUALLY to ours. I also said the same of Mimi-who lives here as well. But, the truth is that they do both get lost in the shuffle because everything revolves around trying to keep Maca from flipping out or feeling unwanted, unloved, unimportant, unmeaningful etc.


Could you and Maca just not talk to or see each other (besides dropping kids off) for like a month or so? Just take a break and let the dust settle... It seems the more you try and talk to him and make plans, the worse things get.In theory-yes. But, he can't handle it.

[Ilove2men]

I'm coming out of lurking for this one. What a vicious cycle this is! I have been through 2 of these in less than a year. One failed. One is healing and progressing. I would like to share what I have learned from my experiences. If it applies great if it doesn't, dismiss it.

This back and forth needs to stop. Someone (both actually) needs to realize the destructive cycle you both have created and put the emergency brakes on. Stop everything immediately. Separate. Deal with your own stuff seperatley. Scream, curse, blame, cry, get all the crazy out (alone) so you can breathe and see clearly, and understand yourself and where you are at and contemplate where the other person is at emotionally. It will help with communicating. It will let you control the beast that both of you have right now inside of you.

Both of you stop focusing on what the other person has done or is doing. Stop adding "But you" at the end of every sentence. "but you" nullifies all healing, all accountability, all heartfelt meaning to your words. It's time to accept accountabilit without expectation of reciprocation.

Stop comparing dirty deeds. It's like comparing knife wounds. Each wound is different. Each person's skin is different. What cuts one deep may cut us less and vice versa. It's pointless. Has it gotten either of you anywhere, but deeper into this black hole of misery?

LR, let go of Maca and focus on yourself. Stop analyzing him. Stop agreeing to plans. Stop making plans for improvement until the both of you gain control. We don't get to say when he will stop hurting over what has taken place. He doesn't get to say when he stops hurting either. If he did he wouldn't still be going through this because he has said he's made peace before. Haven't you gone through that before, LR? I know I have. Wanted to move forward so bad. Felt I could will myself into letting it go. Felt I was honestly in a place of peace... Then the pain would infect me again. Something would trigger it and I was in an emotional spiral I couldn't control and taking down the people I loved with me. God I hated myself for it, but I am only human and I had to accept I couldn't just make myself stop hurting. Sometimes it takes time... Like YEARS. Accepting that I had to be patient with myself and not force it.. That's when the progress really started.

He needs time away from everyone so he can release these emotions without hurting everyone. Stop making date nights. Stop making scheduled talks. Make an agreement that each of you will request communication and/or time together, but there will be no obligation for the other person to accept and the one requesting cannot get angry over the other not being in an emotional state to do so. Make an agreement that there will be no more adding to the destruction and if either of you has to make a quick exit (in communication or pressence) to prevent that, the other will be understanding and know it comes from a place of whating to improve not make worse.

This helped me get through alot of overwhelming emotions. This has helped me see that I can overcome what has happened when I thought there was no saving this.

I read where you said Maca needed you to not "always" talk about issues. Through the worst of my relationship (complete and utter destruction) there were moments where I basically said, "please, I need it all to stop and go away. Just for this moment. I need to be held. I need to talk about anything else. I need to hear your heart beat. I need to feel your wamth. I need to feel something with you that isn't pain or anger or fear." It was a moment of vunerability. It was sooooo very healing. Then... It was back to working on everything. Picking through the rubble.

I feel like I'm rambling... Just the both of you... Stop blaming. Stop seeing what the other is doing as how it effects you. Try to see the emotional turmoil of the other that is creating this mess. See the others pain and understand it. Give space and heal your own.

Again, these are lessons of my own life and whether or not it is relevant to yours I share them with love and good intentions.

[MrFarFromRight]

@ Maca While I was typing my comment to you:Maca, I owe you an apology. [...] (signed) MrPutMyFootInMyMouth:oI got a warning that I had 5 minutes left to save any work I was doing before my session ended (I was connecting via a public library - max. allowance 1 hour/day). So I finished my comment hastily and posted it. I’d like to come back now and comment more extensively. The quotes are all from your 2 comments on this thread.

I hate it when people jump to conclusions. And I hate it even worse when I’m the one doing the jumping and they’re my conclusions being jumped to. Maths was my favourite subject at school (and my subject at university), and I do like putting 2 and 2 together. But I shouldn’t assume that the answer that I come up with is the right one (or – in some cases - the only right one)! So - once again - my apologies, and be assured that none of the following are assumptions, I'm just throwing some ideas at you.

This is LR's thread and Im not even sure its polite of me to write in itMaca, who better to comment on all this than you??? I’m sure that many of us have been wanting to read your version of all this. And I hope that you’ve returned to read the comments thanking you for taking part. I add my voice to those thanks. As for “polite”: I’m sure that politeness should take a back seat (or even – if necessary - be locked in the boot [trunk in American]) to trying to find a satisfying solution to all this. (Don’t equate “politeness” with “decency”: decency and fairness should never be locked in the boot!)

Yes I was LR's Dom, No I wasnt happy about her wanting to be GG's mistress.I have to admit (as I’ve admitted before on several threads) that this whole BDSM thing is alien to me. What I’m about to do now isn’t jumping to conclusions: it’s asking for some honest answers – both so that I can understand better and perhaps so that you, Maca, in answering honestly, might get a different perspective.

Did the fact that you were LR’s Dom increase your feelings of betrayal?

Did the fact that LR wanted to experiment with “having the upper hand” (becoming the Mistress in her relationship with GG) cause you any fear that she might one day threaten your own power dynamic with her?LR and I talked today about our relationship and she maintains that in order for me to be with her I have to let go of my issues with her being in a romantic relationship with GG. I told her I have tried and that the scar is so deep. She went on to talk about "wanting to forgive" "wanting to make things work". I got real with her, I told her that the thing is " I dont feel a drive to forgive him" " I dont like or want to be reminded of the affair or there romantic relationship". With LR I wanted to forgive, I did forgive. With GG, its just not there. He is a good guy, him and I get along just fine when its not involving LR. We work well as a team. There is just to much that is wrong with me, I cant break through the hurt and anger.Nobody on this board is going to be able to help you if you don’t want to help yourself on this one. I don’t need to jump to any conclusions to know that you aren’t perfect. You’ve made mistakes in your life. [ALL of us have.] If we can believe (Can we believe?) LR’s version of things, some of these were pretty heavy mistakes. If we can believe (Can we believe?) LR’s version of things, she has forgiven you for them and is willing to move one. If we can believe (Can we believe?) your version of things, you are willing to forgive (have forgiven) LR but not GG – even though “He is a good guy, him and I get along just fine when its not involving LR.”

I’ve read several times on other threads (and it’s something that I believe myself) that often, when we say that somebody has hurt us deeply, the truth is that we are hurting ourselves and push the blame on other people. If we can believe (Can we believe?) LR’s version of things, LR and GG are willing to move on. It’s you who’s having trouble with letting go of the hurt in the past. That holding on is harming you and hurting all those around you – at least the ones who love you.

As for the weekend Daddy thing. You have no idea the tears I shed at night. The lump that forms in my throat every time I have to say good bye to them. The hour long drive back to my lonely one room apt feels like walking through a fire pit that is covered in broken glass.I have a confession to make. I once co-parented 2 young girls (2 of the most important people in my life). I didn’t have any sexual connection with their parents, but we were good friends. The father (who’d been born into an inheritance) bought a farm (that I found) and the idea was that we were going to start a commune. He offered – but I refused – to put my name on the deeds as 1/3 owner. Delays in increasing the size of the group (the couple’s decision), the difficulties of living as tacked-on person to an otherwise nuclear family in a rural community in a foreign country where I had no other friends, and the decision-making dynamic (in principle, we were all to have an equal say right from the beginning – in practice whenever he just didn’t care about any issue, he’d vote for her side, so that I lost every vote) all served to create friction between myself and the couple… to the point that I walked out [U]to another country! (I had no work permit for the country where the farm was and couldn’t have made my own living there without working illegally.) So I, too, have been through that process of choosing to walk out on children that I dearly loved… and suffering terribly at the separation. [Luckily, “absence makes the heart grow fonder”: I’m back to being good friends of the couple, and maintain contact with the children – now adults – even if it is at a distance.]Mr, I know that your smitten with LR, she is easy to get smitten with.I admit the charge. LR comes across as a caring person, [almost – when she isn’t hurting too much from her own problems - always] ready to give helpful advice to others on this board, and I’m sure that I’m not the only one who really appreciates her input here. And not the only one who feels for her present pain. As the song (which I’ve shared on another thread) goes:

When things go wrong,
So wrong for you…
It hurts me, too.

I spent the first several years taking care of him financially while he was at home trying to help LR school the kids.As someone who has also been – in this case - in GG’s position, depending on somebody else financially while putting energy into the family, I want to ask you this:

Do/did you resent this? Do/did you feel that GG was being a parasite?

Another question: Was GG putting in any other energy (aside from the home-schooling and being responsible for his own shit – cleaning up after himself, washing his fair share of the dishes) into improvements in the living conditions for the whole group?

Have you heard about the movement for housewives/homemakers to be paid for all the work they do? Do you know how much that work would cost if a professional (even a low-paid immigrant) were doing it? If you’re still holding onto any resentment about GG living at your expense, I honestly think that you should consider all this.

Reading between the lines (and according to LR’s version), I gather that Mimi, LR, and GG are all / have all – for many years – been putting emotional and physical energy into caring for [oh hell! Let's not be shy about using this word: LOVING] (among others) one child who is not related to any of them biologically – your son by your ex-wife.

While walking into town to my Internet connection today, without your posts in front of my eyes (but they’ve been in my thoughts for the 2 days since I first read them, believe me), I was thinking of writing “If any of you – Maca, GG, LR, [and now I’ll have to add Mimi] don’t consider all of the children involved to be part of the family of each of the adults… then there’s no hope for you”. Now that I’ve accessed this thread, I see that your signature is ‘" NO WORDDIES BE HAPPY"- My 2 year old baby girl;)’ Now, I happen to know that this 2 (now 3) year old isn’t your biological daughter. But she’s still “My 2 year old baby girl”. So there IS hope for all of you after all.:):):)

[MrFarFromRight]

The whole of the comment I'm going to quote from should be read by both of you, Maca and LR. Real wisdom! I could "quote" the whole thing. But I want to highlight:This back and forth needs to stop. Someone (both actually) needs to realize the destructive cycle you both have created and put the emergency brakes on. Stop everything immediately. Separate. Deal with your own stuff seperatley. Scream, curse, blame, cry, get all the crazy out (alone) so you can breathe and see clearly, and understand yourself and where you are at and contemplate where the other person is at emotionally. It will help with communicating. It will let you control the beast that both of you have right now inside of you.

Both of you stop focusing on what the other person has done or is doing. Stop adding "But you" at the end of every sentence. "but you" nullifies all healing, all accountability, all heartfelt meaning to your words. It's time to accept accountability without expectation of reciprocation.And this:Stop adding "But you" at the end of every sentence. "but you" nullifies all healing, all accountability, all heartfelt meaning to your words.Stop adding "But you" at the end of every sentence. "but you" nullifies all healing, all accountability, all heartfelt meaning to your words.Stop adding "But you" at the end of every sentence. "but you" nullifies all healing, all accountability, all heartfelt meaning to your words.Stop adding "But you" at the end of every sentence. "but you" nullifies all healing, all accountability, all heartfelt meaning to your words.Stop adding "But you" at the end of every sentence. "but you" nullifies all healing, all accountability, all heartfelt meaning to your words.cannot be repeated too often.

[nycindie]

LR, I actually woke up this morning thinking about you and Maca.

I think Ilove2men has some very valid points and excellent advice. Lately it seems there has been a bit of raking each other over the coals somewhat, alongside the love and pain, and I think some real space (in both time and proximity) would be very healing to both of you.

[ray]

I concur on the space. For awhile, I kept trying to hash things out with O. Eventually it became clear that it was going nowhere. Obviously I will not be getting back with him but the space has been so healing. Whatever happens with him at least I know now that I'm doing better. It's helped me to form a more broad perspective and sift out the feelings and facts. I think there comes a point when conversations just become highly unproductive.

[LovingRadiance]

I agree as well.

Taking space hasn't ever been a threat for me. It's simply not been an opportunity due to the percieved threat to others.

I'll leave my response at that.
;)



In update news;

I asked Maca to consider an agreement between us for however long we are working through this.
I was clear that I need SOME sort of agreement-and I wrote out what I thought needed to be included in it-and asked him to let me know what he felt needed to be included as well.

We're supposed to finalize it on Saturday.

Two of the key things I asked for are

We don't discuss our relationship problems except for one day a week for a maximum of two hours, unless in a counseling appointment.

We don't discuss my relationship with Chris outside of counseling.

There's no way to tell so soon how well that will work. But, hopefully it will allow for a little breathing room for both of us.

[AnnabelMore]

I.E.

Abandoning me to deal w/his ex-wife and her threats against myself and my children, including two attempts at kidnapping my kids.

Abandoning me to deal with his son who was abusive due to emotional trauma caused by his parents b.s.

Accusing me of cheating for 2 years before I ever did ANYTHING to warrant the accusation.

Going out to the bars 3-4 nights a week to play pool with the guys "cause he was on a league" and expecting me to take care of the kids-but I'm not allowed to go out without him.

Telling me he wasn't going to pursue a relationship with someone-then doing it behind my back.

Telling me he wasn't going to take said person to our house (his choice, not my demand) and then doing it behind my back.

Starting a sexual relationship, making out etc-behind my back.

Creating boundary rules for a "poly boundary list agreement" and then breaking them.

It's easy for him to say that I should just understand when he makes a "mistake", but it's not something he will do in return.....

I've got to admit. Every sentence in here scares me. LR, why are you still working on this? Because you love him? There are a lot of people out there worth loving. Because you made a promise? It's a sad fact of life that promises get broken sometimes.

He's left the house, you're going through therapy, those are good steps. But you've questioned on here why you're still trying and I am questioning it right along with you. This doesn't seem healthy.

Leaving is a very, very hard thing to do. Even harder, I'm sure, in a situation like this where there are kids involved. I left my lover of just three years, a quarter of the time you've been with Maca, and it was the hardest thing I've ever done. But it was also the best thing I've ever done.

If you do decide to leave.... your life will go on. Everyone involved will figure out how to heal and it might be a whole heck of a lot better than this situation which seems to me to be very worryingly putting your health (exposing you sexually, second-hand, to people without your agreement) and your heart (verbal abuse, promises broken and retracted, constant about-faces, disrespect) at constant risk.

[nycindie]

Taking space hasn't ever been a threat for me. It's simply not been an opportunity due to the percieved threat to others.

But see, LR, even just saying this is a way of blaming someone else. Your mindset is self-victimizing, if that is a term. If you want space, need space, take it. Instead, you're always giving yourself and Maca homework to do and contracts to sign. And then you get upset when he goes back and forth. Just work on you and let go of hopes and expectations.

I suggest you read Ilove2men's post again and again and again - carefully, very carefully, line by line, and let it sink in. Lots of wisdom there.

[Ilove2men]

NYC, I thought the very same thing when I read that. It's deflection. There's that saying about doing the same thing and expecting different results. Contracts at this point are just setting everyone up for failure. I don't think either of you are stable enough to follow through. Until each of you can get ahold of yourselves you won't be able to break the cycle that you have both created.

I bowed out of posting on this board because ... Well I have no poly relationship to speak about. My poly is done, but I have continued to pop in and check on those I have grown to care about. It saddens me that I have experience in this all too familiar toxic cycle. Seeing a couple I have grown to look up to going through this I couldn't not post.

[LovingRadiance]

Here's the baseline reality.

There isn't a way for us to have NO contact without totally fucking over at least one child.

So, we don't have a choice but to make an agreement to not discuss the shit that sends us spiraling through the nasty, painful, b.s cycle we've gotten into.

Yes, we could fuck over the one child who would lose everything if we did that. However, that one child deserves better-and he's going to get it-if it kills me.

Yes, I meant that-if it KILLS me.

I'm not sending this boy back to his mother.
I'm not making him leave his siblings-the only people he's TRULY bonded to, just because he's not mine.

If I had to suffer rape EVERY SINGLE DAY OF MY LIFE for him to have the chances that he has now-becuase of me entering his life-I would.

Fortunately, I don't have to do that.

BUT, I do have to find a way to work around the issues in our lives and get along.
Stay in a poly dynamic? Not a requirement.
Stay married? Not a requirement.
Be lovers? Not a requirement.

Find a way to get along-that's a requirement and it has to happen RIGHT NOW, TODAY.

So, while I do understand what you are saying-no, I'm not taking the advice in full.

I found the only part I could take and used it.
We aren't discussing the issues between us unless we're with a therapist.

That means NOT AT ALL. No complaining, no bitching, no whining, no asking, no demanding.
It pretty much means "if you don't have anything nice to say, shut the fuck up" (not to you all, between he and I).

From what I gather from him-he thinks I'm dead on right on this topic. (there are a few things we have come to agree on implicitly over the years).

As for why I stay,
because to be flat honest-all of the things in that list are over and done. We've learned from them and we've grown from them and they aren't continuing.

My point in bringing them up wasn't to malign the man that Maca is today.
My point was that we ALL fucked up and we ALL need some grace.

Maca is struggling because he doesn't want to offer GG grace, but he has been willing to accept it for himself. That's self-rightous and it's wrong. Furthermore-he knows it is. Like it or not, he knows it's wrong. He just doesn't want it to be.

There is no doubt about the fact that I fucked Maca over by having the affair and I'm not even going to start defending myself over it. It was wrong, it was heartless and it was unfair. At the very least I could have simply said it was over, walked away and done what I thought I needed to do.
But I was selfish and I didn't go that route.

If Maca wants to be "just friends" and call it good on the marriage-so be it.
But, he still owes it to HIMSELF-to grant GG the grace he longs to have for himself. Because as long as he's holding a grudge, he can't FEEL that the grace has already been given.

As for who has done the most damage.
Who cares?
The damage was done.

I don't believe in "it's over".
There is no "over" unless you give up-and I don't give up.
So, while I respect the fact that other people believe that there is a point where you just have to walk away-I don't believe that, never have and if I ever do, that time isn't here yet. Thus, it's pointless to waste breath suggesting it.

Not that I don't grasp the heart of the suggestion, but the bottomline for me is that I know Maca's heart-and I know mine. Giving up isn't going to happen.

[SourGirl]

Good people do bad things. I hope you two can learn to forgive yourselves and each other.

You both strike me as good people. I really hope you both get to a point where you can choose to be happy instead of being right.

I agree with NYCindie, and Ilove2men,.... read her statement over and over until it truly sinks in. How will you know ? You might actually feel defeated for a bit. That would be a good sign,...surrender yourself to a different way of being, and thinking.

Maybe its the word 'contract'. It sounds so negative in trust. Like the beginning to the end, rather then the hope for a new beginning.

Might want to call it a 'agreement',...as to make sure in all the hussle and talk, that it is written out, so nobody forgets. (innocently, and while under stress) what they agreed to.

Less legal, more love.


Best wishes.

[LovingRadiance]

Sourgirl-between us, we didn't call it an anything.
But, how do you write online that you created a _________ that covers each other getting what they need FOR RIGHT NOW without a word. I chose contract because it covered that it was an agreement, deeper meaning to both of us than "agreement" normally means (they're commonly broken) and more signficaint to each of us in terms of importance.

Obviously I didn't write out every word.

But-the point was that we took the suggestions, created something that was workable within the limitations of our circumstances and agreed that we'd make it "law" for the next 6 months so that we can each get the space from the things we need space from (like him not having to deal with the romantic relationhip I have with GG-and me not having to fear that if we see each other it's goign to dissolve into an argument about GG).

Ironically-the one thing we've done that BOTH of us, GG and Mimi all thought was sane, rational and PRODUCTIVE (many things were ONE of the first two but not the last before this) seems to have set off a firestorm because I wrote about it.

The irony is-that we had to have SOME SORT OF agreement.
Even an agreement to not speak to each other requires an agreement.
Otherwise, one person keeps trying and the other continues to avoid which creates yet more drama.

We've made an agreement. It's not functional as a "lifetime plan". But it is functional for giving each of us a little space and distance from the conflict, bringing in an educated third party to help navigate through the issues we've been unable to resolve on our own, maintain stability for the kids AND the metamours as well as allowing us the chance to just relax....

FYI-we are good people. If he weren't a good people, I wouldn't be with him. If I weren't a good people, he wouldn't be with me.

That's the whole point-we both know we belong together, we both know we are good people. We just haven't figured out how to make it work smoothly. Kudos in that we're both willing to try.

[Ilove2men]

Yes, we have children also so I understand and did not mean absolutely no contact. I meant put the breaks on until both of you can better handle this. It only feeds the cycle and agreements will continue to be broken.

[Ilove2men]

oops we posted at the same time. That is really great LR.

[LovingRadiance]

I understood you. :)

That's why we made the agreement we made.

We agreed to maintain separate homes for at least 6 months, not talking about my relationship with GG, 1 day a week for no more than 2 hours to talk about our relationship issues, continue practicing the communication skills we've been learning-but using less "boiling" topics, working on our lists of what we want in life and marriage (that's for the therapist-so we CAN build a future), among other things.

But, the two biggest keys was agreeing to something that
isn't "every day shoving this shit down our throats",
isn't running away from it altogether and letting everything fall apart AND
isn't creating a neglected environment for the rest of the family.

:)

So far, so good. We've had a couple days of talking-no argument, no tension, no battle. Mostly-because we know that there is a time and place to address the issues we're struggling with-but this isn't it.

Without knowing a problem WILL be addressed, each passing day creates more anxiety as it's NOT addressed.
If you try to address it every day-you have no time to "be".

So-both ways create more problems.
This one allows for not becoming anxious that shit won't be addressed, without ruining every moment.

[LovingRadiance]

Thanks Ilove2men. :)

FYI-I do remember you from when you were a regular on here. ;)

We were talking about you actually, just a few weeks ago. (Maca and I)

[Ilove2men]

Yes, I read what was going on, but still didn't want to post on here and couldn't remember your email so I sent Maca a message on facebook. Hehe you brought me out of the dark. It just feels weird to post on here now, ya know. Your agreement sounds like the perfect way to handle this. Congrats on the grandbaby, btw. X)

[LovingRadiance]

haha, lovingradiancess@gmail.com
I'm on facebook too. If you look at his page, and find the "friend" who has the huge back tattoo-that'd be mine. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

He's a cutie pie. :) He's almost two months already!
He and momma are out of state right now, won't see them again til the 21st of May. ;)

[Ilove2men]

Look at you with a facebook! I'll look you up tonight!

[SNeacail]

So far, so good. We've had a couple days of talking-no argument, no tension, no battle. Mostly-because we know that there is a time and place to address the issues we're struggling with-but this isn't it.

OMG! This has been such a help for us. There have been a few times I just threw up my hands and said "ENOUGH, we are going in circles, let's table it until we meet with the councelor". We were able to just table it, without all the constant negativity, because we both knew it wouldn't just be swept under the rug. It gave us hope that a resolution was forthcoming. In the meantime, we were able get back to day to day business and move on.

I do have to rembember write it down so I didn't forget about it once we get there days or weeks later.:p

[LovingRadiance]

I don't forget. ;) sometimes that's a good thing, other times it's really lame!

[AnnabelMore]

We agreed to maintain separate homes for at least 6 months, not talking about my relationship with GG, 1 day a week for no more than 2 hours to talk about our relationship issues, continue practicing the communication skills we've been learning-but using less "boiling" topics, working on our lists of what we want in life and marriage (that's for the therapist-so we CAN build a future), among other things.

This seems like a very reasonable and positive path to be on.

I hope I didn't come off too harshly in my previous comment -- I hesitated to post it because it was pretty blunt and I didn't want you to feel attacked, but in the end I decided it would be best to be straightforward about my take on the situation, on the off chance that maybe leaving would in fact be the best thing for you and it would help to get a nudge. Leaving my ex was the right thing for us and for our situation, but that doesn't mean it's the right thing for you guys or ever will be. I admire your ability to be so clear and articulate about what you're doing and why. :)

[maca]

All I can say is WOW!!!!

I have a shit load of responses but to be honest... I just dont have the energy to write it all out. I read through all the newest posts lastnight, LR asked me to add my two cents, but to tell you the truth I was exhausted after reading all of it.:(

I know that most people mean well and are only trying to be helpful. I appreciate that and I wanted to say thank you. So, Thank you.

ILove2men- Ill FB you a more detailed message but, Your a sweet girl and Im very glad that you reached out and extended your friendship. Ill consider your words of advice with all the respect that you deserve.:) Thank you.

MrFFR- Apology accepted. It is very obvious that it was heart felt and real. I appreciate your words. I will come back and address some for your more pointed questions and comments.

I have several points to make and I will get around to making them. Right now Im in the process of repacking my stuff and moving to another place. One that is closer to the kids and better suited for having all 3 kids over for longer stays. It will put me closer to LR as well, which is somthing that I want and fear all at the same time.

There are MANY things that LR posted, that I either disagree with or that she misunderstands, about me or our relationship... Im not going to get into all that though. Im not going to start up the " But she did this or that" B.S. again ( thanks Ilove2men :rolleyes: ) But I will say that she is right about the fact that we cant "not" see eachother. We have to much we are still responsible for, to eachother, to our kids, to our family,to our selves.

I dont know how to make it make sense.... But we are drawn together by something stronger than desire. I could stop the physical connections , I would be unhappy and LR would go insane,but we would still be drawn to eachother and we would still have to talk and get along and see eachother.


Ill try to get back on and post more after the weekend ( once Im all moved in). Good luck to everyone.


Maca

[LovingRadiance]

Maca invited me to spend the night with him at his new place the first night he was there.
We moved furniture, cleaned, unpacked, organized. It's all ready for kids to visit now.
We had a good night, followed the rules to our agreement and enjoyed our time together.

He bought me a dessert from town that was great. :) YUMMY.

Today we moved trash to the dump and cleaned more of the garage and got a load to the thrift store.

:)

[Morningglory629]

Maca invited me to spend the night with him at his new place the first night he was there.
We moved furniture, cleaned, unpacked, organized. It's all ready for kids to visit now.
We had a good night, followed the rules to our agreement and enjoyed our time together.

He bought me a dessert from town that was great. :) YUMMY.

Today we moved trash to the dump and cleaned more of the garage and got a load to the thrift store.

:)

Happy days. Glad the sleepover was a success of sorts. And thank you both for your time! It was great to hear Maca's voice! Funny putting sounds and images together! LOL! Anyway you were both a great help. 2Rings agrees that if it helps me then he's for it! HUGS!:D

[BlackUnicorn]

Yay, almost like dating again! Did you and Maca date for a long time before getting married/moving in together?

[Magdlyn]

Did you have sex? :p

[LovingRadiance]

Yay, almost like dating again! Did you and Maca date for a long time before getting married/moving in together?
Not near long enough if you ask me.
I actually told him I'd like to "date", spend the time we're together focused on learning who we each are-NOW-instead of assuming we know already because we've been together 13 years.

Did you have sex? :p

While we were dating or when I spent the night?
Yes, yes.
We're both VERY VERY VERY VERY sexual creatures. I can't imagine having a night together when we were both well rested and not having sex. :P

[LovingRadiance]

Happy days. Glad the sleepover was a success of sorts. And thank you both for your time! It was great to hear Maca's voice! Funny putting sounds and images together! LOL! Anyway you were both a great help. 2Rings agrees that if it helps me then he's for it! HUGS!:D

Good. :) Good luck!

[SNeacail]

Not near long enough if you ask me.
I actually told him I'd like to "date", spend the time we're together focused on learning who we each are-NOW-instead of assuming we know already because we've been together 13 years.

I think this is a GREAT idea. I'm nearly of the opinion that it is absolutely necessary when you find yourselves contantly having arguements about "assumptions". Breaking through assumptions that have developed over the years is hard, with valid reasons or not.



Yes, yes.
We're both VERY VERY VERY VERY sexual creatures. I can't imagine having a night together when we were both well rested and not having sex. :P

:D

[sage]

Wasn't sure where to post this, here or in the weightloss thread. I had to do some bar research for a training manual I'm writing so on a freezing NZ day I treated myself to a nice lunch and warm sticky pudding (in the name of research of course). Then I was walking down the street under cover of shops with the dog to walk it off and not get wet when I came across a gorgeous shoe and handbag store. Guess what it was called - "Chick pea". I don't think you have one of those do you?

[LovingRadiance]

Nope, no chickpea, but that's cute sage! :)

[LovingRadiance]

:(

Just got the text from my daughter that she isn't coming home as planned May 21st. Wants me to ship stuff to her.

I'm already hormonal and having a shitty day.

It's TOTALLY ok that she's decided this,

but today wasn't the day for me to hear or deal with it.

FORTUNATELY-it was a text, so I texted back all the right things-instead of her hearing me go to tears.

Now, I won't see her or the little pea til he's like 2. Cause there isn't $ to pay for the tickets.

Lame.

Life-I know, just life. But, lame aspect.

[KatTails]

Awww LR - I'm so sorry! I'm sure you were looking forward to having them come home, even for a short while. That sucks. :(

[LovingRadiance]

I was looking forward to spending the summer with them.

I had just finished doing all thepaperwork and hoop jumping to be an approved daycare provider for the little guy so she could work too. :(

But, I love her-and this is what she needs to do, so.... grandma will look at pics on facebook.

[marksbabygirl]

Skype? Webcam & messenger?

Blah - that sucks. I'm going to have a hard enough time with my daughter 5 hours away if she gets pregnant. :(

[Morningglory629]

I was looking forward to spending the summer with them.

I had just finished doing all thepaperwork and hoop jumping to be an approved daycare provider for the little guy so she could work too. :(

But, I love her-and this is what she needs to do, so.... grandma will look at pics on facebook.

Aaaaaargh! That stinks when they are so little...change constantly. When will she be able to visit?

[LovingRadiance]

no idea when she'll be able to visit.
But, if I manage the move out of here, I'll be able to go visit her. My two youngest are going to be DEVASTATED when they find out.
I didn't have the heart to tell them yet.

The baby has already been goign to tears every time she walks past her sisters room cause she misses her.

:(

[Morningglory629]

The baby has already been goign to tears every time she walks past her sisters room cause she misses her.

:(

Awwwwww poor babe!:( The time will pass quickly! It'll happen.

[MrFarFromRight]

no idea when she'll be able to visit.
But, if I manage the move out of here, I'll be able to go visit her. My two youngest are going to be DEVASTATED when they find out.
I didn't have the heart to tell them yet.

The baby has already been going to tears every time she walks past her sisters room cause she misses her.

:(:(:(:(

Seeing them off at the airport, I'm sure that you consoled yourself with the thought that you'd be seeing them soon. And now this.

Doesn't life just stink sometimes!

But think about this: plans get changed. They got changed so that these two peas don't return to the pod in May as you hoped. But I'm hoping for you that they get changed again so that it won't be THAT long before you see them again - their place or yours...

Teach your children well,
Their [parent]'s hell did slowly go by,
And feed them on your dreams
The one they picked, the one you'll know by.

Don't you ever ask them why, if they told you, you would cry,
So just look at them and sigh and know they love you.

:)J

[LovingRadiance]

Today was a pretty good day. :)
I took the little pea and we went to costco-did the big shopping.

We picked my mom, grandma (whose visiting this week) and little sister with us. WHEW!

I got a brainstorm, one way tickets are generally cheaper than round trip.

So I asked the oldest pea to look up prices for one way tickets back to Ok in June. They're running $300. Not terribly bad.

I asked if she'd come home in May if I could send her back by Fathers Day.

Then, we all can say a PLANNED goodbye, and she can help me sort through her stuff and get it donated or whatever before the "final move".

She was giddy with the idea.

I told her I'd give her a for sure answer if I could manage that by Sunday....

It came to my mind this morning after the littlest pea went to tears YET AGAIN over missing her sissy.
It won't mean she doesn't miss her sissy-but it will mean she knows sissy is going for a long time and won't be expecting her back soon. Also-she already knows that "after a new winter and snow comes and goes away-we are moving far away where the snow is less so much". ;)
I love listening to her talk!

She talked her little head off today as we walked up the road to get the van (had to change the tires). :)


Maca is over, he's making steaks for he, me and GG. He called and offered and I thought that was cool. He's setting up the grill right now. :)

[Ariakas]

Congrats LR.. sounds like a great night :).. kudos to maca :)

[LovingRadiance]

Thanks Ari. It is the first time Maca's had anything to do with GG since he moved out... 6 weeks ago?

[Morningglory629]

Maca is over, he's making steaks for he, me and GG. He called and offered and I thought that was cool. He's setting up the grill right now. :)

Very cool!!!!! Here's to ch-ch-ch changes! hugs all!;)

BTW impressed with the tire changing WITH littlest pea! :D

[LovingRadiance]

Littlest Pea had to go to the Dr today. :(

Her left lymph node in her neck is swollen OUT OF THIS WORLD. :( I kisssed her neck, she went to tears and that's how I found it. :(

Dr. isn't sure what it is. Possibility that it's mono. But we don't know yet.

Otherwise, a pretty good day. I got some math done, graded papers (keeping caught up with that each day), got my English book in the mail for my class that starts the 16th.

Maca came by after work and we hung out after he took the little one to the Dr. GG made dinner for everyone and Maca liked it. We all hung out fairly comfortably for a few hours. Maca and I looked at all the grandbaby pics on facebook before he headed home to finish painting the little pea's garden bench.

[Mohegan]

It's possible that it's a blockage. My niece had to have surgery before she was one because of blockage. They said it was something that happens with development, sometimes the lymph nodes don't fully open. Surgery was quick and she recovered in no time and no problems since. I only bring it up cuz my sis in law found it the same way you did.

[SNeacail]

Oh, the poor little thing. Hope the Dr. finds the problem.

[MonoVCPHG]

We all hung out fairly comfortably for a few hours. Maca and I looked at all the grandbaby pics on facebook before he headed home to finish painting the little pea's garden bench.

Like :D

[LovingRadiance]

I'll keep that possibility in mind (blockage).
Right now thtey have her taking steroids and antibiotics. She goes back Friday.

I was in today. :(
Lots of herbal tea, laying low, curled up in blankets.
They put me on antibiotics as well.

Maca came by-took me to the Dr.s today. Then cut all of the tile for the entry (we're planning to lay it on Saturday). ;)

[SNeacail]

Oh, Hugs and sending lots of get well vibes.

[Magdlyn]

How are things going with GG? Still "taking a break?"

[MrFarFromRight]

I've not added anything here recently. But I'm reading it whenever I log in and thinking of you all. Tell SourPea that somebody in Germany sends her a get-well :):):)hug:):):)

Hey! You too!:):)hug:):)(Had to take 2 if the smileys off of your hug, because the moderation believes in "Moderation in all things"... but you know that they're there, really, don't you?)

[LovingRadiance]

HAHAH, I get annoywed with the limit on smiley's too. ;)

Yes, I know they are there.


She's feeling much better even though the swelling hasn't reduced. I feel like crud still and now the Sweet Pea is going down too. SO, taking him to the dr today. :(

GG is doing good. Yes, we're still taking a break. He has this week off of work and he's helped a lot with getting boxes sorted and off to the thrift stores etc. :) He's been making me tea and cooking meals and all the wonderful lovey things that make you feel well-cared for ESPECIALLY when you feel like shit.

I wish it were easier for Maca to see what a great combination they make in getting things done and taking care of the family.

They are both great at the parts they do and they do different things, which means that together, they cover a LOT of ground....

[MrFarFromRight]

HAHAH, I get annoywed with the limit on smiley's too.

Yes, I know they are there.

She's feeling much better even though the swelling hasn't reduced. I feel like crud still and now the Sweet Pea is going down too. SO, taking him to the dr today.

GG is doing good. Yes, we're still taking a break. He has this week off of work and he's helped a lot with getting boxes sorted and off to the thrift stores etc. He's been making me tea and cooking meals and all the wonderful lovey things that make you feel well-cared for ESPECIALLY when you feel like shit.

I wish it were easier for Maca to see what a great combination they make in getting things done and taking care of the family.

They are both great at the parts they do and they do different things, which means that together, they cover a LOT of ground....Does SweetPea accept hugs from strange men? (They don't come much stranger than me!;):p:))

Nice to know that you're being cherished.:):):)

I don't know if you've dealt with this much - at least not recently - but how does GG feel about Maca
a) in general?
b) since Maca moved out?
c) since Maca has been making friendly overtures again (eating together / cooking for each other)?

Remaining 4 smileys to be divided amongst GG, Maca, and the rest of the Peas... and not forgetting Mimi!!!;):cool::):p

Hey! That's not fair! I had to erase the 3 smileys from your quote to be allowed my quota...

[LovingRadiance]

Sweetpea would hug anyone, he's a... well polyfriend kind of person. ;)
Sourpea on the other hand (the baby) is as antisocial as they come. She's an oddball in this family.

I don't know if you've dealt with this much - at least not recently - but how does GG feel about Maca
a) in general?
b) since Maca moved out?
c) since Maca has been making friendly overtures again (eating together / cooking for each other)?

GG is about the most easy-going person you could meet. I will tell him to feel free to correct me if I'm wrong (he rarely looks on here, but if I tell him to he will).
But, here's my understanding of the answer to your questions.

GG generally likes Maca, but feels like he has to walk on eggshells around him due to the moodswings. So, he's awkwardly quiet around Maca-IF I'm around. If you remove me from the picture, he's fine. They have some opposites in their personality, Maca is much a "guy's guy"-he likes to fish and hunt, outdoorsy type. GG is NOT an outdoorsy type. He likes to walk and he's a people watcher. GG is a city-boy at heart, but Maca is a country-boy at heart.

On the otherhand, they have similar tastes in women (go figure) and both love to look at the ladies. GG LOVES music and so the music that Maca likes to listen to-GG does as well, because it's music. ;)
They both adore the kids.
They work well together. Maca is more a "natural leader" or "boss" and GG prefers to follow someone else's lead, so they make a comfortable team when doing projects.

In regards to moving out-GG thinks it's overkill in some ways. He feels like somehow Maca needs to come to grips within himself about what Maca wants most-to be with the family or no. Then just follow that decision through. That's very much how GG operates, but, it's not how Maca operates, and GG respects that Maca has to do things his own way-even though it's not what GG would do. He just throws up his hands with a "god I hope this works out soon-I don't know how to help" heart.

GG appreciates the friendly overtures. He gets nervous about when it will explode again, because he really doesn't enjoy holding me when I'm sobbing. I imagine it's pretty much a consensus that it's preferable to hold a happy woman than a heartbroken one.
But, he (much like me) can't help but hope that THIS TIME is THE TIME that real progress is being made towards them creating a real friendship and our familiy finally being a securely attached family.

It's not a rare occurrence for GG to talk to me about missing Maca. We all miss him. It's always easier when he's being friendly with everyone. It's hard to love someone and watch them fling themself as far from you and the rest of those that they (and you) love as they can.
As difficult as it is for Maca to accept when he's emotionally distraught-GG does love Maca as well. It's not a romantic love-but that is such a small aspect of love, and he does have a great love for Maca.

[LovingRadiance]

Yesterday I went to town with GG and Sourpea. Maca had a SHITTY day at work. We bought him a to-go lunch and he met us at the park.

He was struggling with jealousy, anxiety, frustration. His jealousy is always heightened when shit goes awry in his work.

I tried to be loving, supportive, understanding- but not crawl away into the bushes to hide the "real me".

He took Sourpea home with him and let GG and I spend a couple hours alone together. Later, he worked on the tile in our entry and then I spent the night with him. It proved to be a smooth transition from insecurity, to comfortable companionship-without me "choosing" him over GG. I breathed a small sigh of relief as I fell asleep curled up in his strong arms.

Today-was just a great day. I got up early and made Maca breakfast, cleaned his dishes, brushed my teeth & hair, washed my face and got dressed. We headed back to the house and he finished the tile. :) I woke up GG, got the laundry off the lines, put new laundry out on the lines, did the other household chores while GG made breakfast for himself and Sourpea.

Then we all headed into town to spend a couple hours at the May Faire with Maca's lady friend.

Now, we sit in Maca's little livingroom having just eaten a KICK ASS dinner that we worked together to make. The guys are watching a movie as I type. The boys are watching with the guys and Sourpea is asleep in Maca's bed.

It's not that we've "solved" our issues. But, we've found a small reprieve, a place where we can be peaceful and friendly.

;)

XO

[Breathesgirl]

I'm glad things are going well :).

It sounds like the two of you get along better when you don't share an abode.

(Deja Vu, have I said this already?)

There's nothing wrong with that. Sometimes married people DO discover that it's better, for them in their circumstances, to have separate residences so they each have a separate place to go to for whatever reason.

Lots of hugs and healing thoughts for everyone.

That sucks about the grandbaby :(. I think my mom would have felt the urge to throttle me if I had made that sort of decision since my guys are the only natural grands & will remain the onlys. She had wanted grands almost since I first started having sex, lol, so removing the option to see them when she wanted would have killed her.

[MrFarFromRight]

Yeah, it looks like the living-in-different-houses solution might be more comfortable - and healthier - for all of you. Has Maca found anything closer to the rest of you?

Read the book "Woman On The Edge Of Time" by Marge Piercy: My favourite adult novel of all time. (And it has been for over 30 years now.) It describes a society in which every adult has their own house - so that you can share that space with others if and when you want to, but aren't obliged to be next to somebody when you're not in the mood. (The children all live in a big children's house, but most adults in the society spend lots of time with the children - some more than others and not only with "their own" children.)

Since you've already considered buying a piece of land together and building on it, I hope that this dream comes true for you.

"There's nothing wrong with building castles in the air, as long as you use them to create foundations for reality."

[nycindie]

It sounds like the two of you get along better when you don't share an abode.

(Deja Vu, have I said this already?)

Yeah, it looks like the living-in-different-houses solution might be more comfortable - and healthier - for all of you.

Yep, I said the same thing back (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=73291#post73291) in March! Can I get credit for it? ;) It is something works for many folks - I've met a few couples that are really happy with dual homes.

[LovingRadiance]

I'm glad things are going well :).

It sounds like the two of you get along better when you don't share an abode.

(Deja Vu, have I said this already?)

Yeah, it's true. There's some complications that haven't been ironed out; but that takes time.

We're still planning to move stateside, and the plan always was to have multiple "homes" on one property. Almost commune like, but... just "us"...

Anyway-I think we will end up with AT LEAST everyone having their own personal building-if not full "house" (ie maybe not kitchens/bathrooms in them all). It seems to be a necessity.

Shrug. I'm ok with that. As long as we're close enough to walk to them, I think I can handle that fairly stress free.

[Ariakas]

Congrats LR. I am happy for you guys. I hope it continues going in the right direction for you.

[LovingRadiance]

Since you've already considered buying a piece of land together and building on it, I hope that this dream comes true for you.

"There's nothing wrong with building castles in the air, as long as you use them to create foundations for reality."
LMAO, I didn't read this before my last post.

We've actually ironed out the WHERE. And ironed out that Maca and I will be going down in Aug or Sept of 2012 for 2 months (with the $40k for the downpayment) to try to locate THE property we want.
In the meantime, GG is working on getting approved for a load to get an RV (as he has no carloans or mortgages currently).
:)

That was a HUGE relief to just get something a little more concrete laid out.

We've talked more in depth about what we each NEED in this "new home" for our own well-being and pretty much agreed that there will have to be at least two houses and a "shop". The houses may be more or less "complete" (we could handle sharing the kitchen and living space), but that way each of us has a place we can "runaway" to when we need our alone time, without being "gone" from the kiddos. :)

[LovingRadiance]

Yep, I said the same thing back (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=73291#post73291) in March! Can I get credit for it? ;) It is something works for many folks - I've met a few couples that are really happy with dual homes.

Yes Nyc, you may take credit. :)

You all are so funny and so fun sometimes. :)

[LovingRadiance]

Congrats LR. I am happy for you guys. I hope it continues going in the right direction for you.

God I hope so! I totally could use a few YEARS that are drama free!!!

[SNeacail]

Glad things are looking up! From someone who gets seriously stressed out from lack of privacy and too much commotion, what you have planed sounds wonderful.

[LovingRadiance]

I would RELISH being able to go out to my own "place" and read, write, paint (just paint by numbers, I'm not THAT cool) or whatever....

Dream big... Dream often... Then get your ass to work and make it reality... (right?)

[LovingRadiance]

Yesterday was the one year anniversary of my daughter's best friend committing suicide.
Maca, GG and I took flowers to the gravesite. It was bittersweet.

I still feel a twinge of guilt for not "catching it" before she went to that step. But, I know she didn't give me much to "see" that would have told me anything was wrong-much less THAT MUCH.

I miss her and I hurt for her two dearest friends...

But-I'm so fucking thankful that it wasn't my baby.

:o

After, we went to town and I got a much needed pair of sandals. (the old ones were falling apart).
Then we went to visit Maca's ladyfriend.

That was bittersweet too. It was OBVIOUS that she was happy to see us, we enjoyed sitting in the grass, sunshine everywhere, the kids running and playing in the yard while we talked amicably.
But-within 1/2 hour it was time for the kids of her household to go swimming. her other live in boyfriend takes them. We knew he and his wife before any of us knew her and had a friendly though not close relationship. But-he was CLEARLY unhappy about us being there-which created an awkward tension and we left.

Sigh...
Sometimes I think poly isn't worth the effort.
Hell, sometimes I think relationships with people aren't worth the effort.

On a side note, Maca and I had some gravely serious-productive conversations without an argument. It wasn't easy and there were a lot of tears. But, we managed a couple topics and moved on to easy camaraderie and lovemaking after.
Small progress.

:o

GG's having a rough week. A lady he works with was run over and killed this week. He didn't know her well, but the rest of the staff did and the school is holding the funeral-which due to his position was his job to coordinate set up for (and soon, tear down as well). That in addition to "normal" work responsibilities. He's a naturally emotionally sympathetic person and being surrounded by so much sincere heartbreak has been taking a toll this week.
I cuddled with him this morning for an hour and we just talked. That seemed to help some, just getting his thoughts out and then moving on to other topics.

[SNeacail]

Yesterday was the one year anniversary of my daughter's best friend committing suicide.
Maca, GG and I took flowers to the gravesite. It was bittersweet.

((HUGS))


But-he was CLEARLY unhappy about us being there-which created an awkward tension and we left.

I think you have mentioned this couple before. Sometime you just can't win. :rolleyes:

On a side note, Maca and I had some gravely serious-productive conversations without an argument. It wasn't easy and there were a lot of tears. But, we managed a couple topics and moved on to easy camaraderie and lovemaking after.

:D All progress is good and any heavy discussion that you can recover from quickly is reason to celebrate ;)

GG's having a rough week. A lady he works with was run over and killed this week. He didn't know her well, but the rest of the staff did and the school is holding the funeral-which due to his position was his job to coordinate set up for (and soon, tear down as well). That in addition to "normal" work responsibilities. He's a naturally emotionally sympathetic person and being surrounded by so much sincere heartbreak has been taking a toll this week.

((HUGS TO GG))

[Morningglory629]

Sigh...
Sometimes I think poly isn't worth the effort.
Hell, sometimes I think relationships with people aren't worth the effort.



Yikes! Feelin this myself...but it is just temporary monogamy, I will get through it!:p

Glad things are working out...slowly but surely. Hugs for GG on the uncomfortable work situation and hugs for all just because!

[MrFarFromRight]

Progress is progress. It's better to take small steps and stay on your feet than giant leaps and fall on your face... or backwards.hugsfor GG, you and Maca, and all the Peas! (Especially the Spicy One [did you call each other over that anniversary:(:(:(?])

[ray]

Glad to hear there's been some progress! Sorry to hear about GG's coworker. I'm a pretty empathetic person and I know how that stuff can be hard to handle even if it wasn't that close to you. :(

[LovingRadiance]

I have distributed hugs. ;)

Yes, Spicy and I talked on the anniversary. She's actually doing very well-I was impressed. It was a hard day-but she didn't try to bottle it up, she let it all out-then got right back to enjoying her Little Pea. :) Good mommy.

I've been ultra-emotional (not about that, just about NOTHING and EVERYTHING all at once).

Both guys have been very understanding and sympathetic and patient. I'm trying to get out of my funk-sometimes it's so fucking easy, others; it's so fucking hard. :(

I'm so proud of Spicy-and nervous as hell. A "crisis" came up on Mother's Day. The result of which is that Little Pea's daddy is able to move back up here. SOOOOOOO, after all of the emotional upheaval-they're coming home. :D

He was REALLY nervous about staying here (DITTO) because he doesn't want to be a "mooch". We've worked out an agreement for them to be here temporarily, to find work (not too hard here, we're not hit as bad with that as stateside) and get a place of their own.

BUT (here's where the nerves come in-as silly as it is), she comes home next Saturday.
THEN, flies back down there June 24th and she's leaving Little Pea with me......
They'll be driving up and hopefully here within 2 weeks-barring any complications.

So, I will have the baby for 2 weeks or so.... :eek:

Yeah yeah yeah, as many babies as I've got... what's the big deal. But, he's not mine. Is that stupid or what? I'm all nervous...

[AnnabelMore]

We've actually ironed out the WHERE. And ironed out that Maca and I will be going down in Aug or Sept of 2012 for 2 months (with the $40k for the downpayment) to try to locate THE property we want.

I just wanted to say... this is so, so exciting, even though there's a ways to go before you get there. :)

[LovingRadiance]

Started my English 111 class today. Going to be 10 weeks of busy-ness. 15 assignments due by this Saturday. I've knocked out 2 of them already. Hopefully be able to work through a few more this evening after Maca is off work and take the kids for a bit!

We had a great weekend. I got to spend some much needed time cuddling with GG and just catching up with each other. That was nice.

I had sent an email to GG, Maca and my oldest daughter about motherhood. GG replied to it. He obviously took some time to really put his thoughts together. His reply was about me as a mother-in his eyes. It was VERY touching. I shared it with Maca. I really do appreciate hearing what I do right, cause sometimes it's hard for me to see.

Maca and I had a couple more LITTLE talks that were on serious topics for us. We managed to circumvent any arguments by using our agreed upon "pauses". I felt really bad over the one I caused. I interrupted him... he managed to "pause" and I immediately felt bad and apologized. I KNOW it's so disrespectful to interrupt when someone's trying to share with you. (slap forehead). But, we got past it and moved on productively. :)

Maca and I got some much needed "down time" and he helped me with some issues I was having with my math. He was fairly amused when I started laughing at a movie he had on. It was a stupid movie and I'm generally not one to find "stupid humor" funny in the least. I don't even know what he was watching-but the scene that cracked me up, this guy was getting aggravated by the bird pecking on his window, keeping him awake. After all these tries to make it stop so he could sleep, he rolls over screaming SHUT UP-and scares his sleeping wife. She falls on the floor. I laughed so hard! Maca just stared at me with an eyebrow raised at first. He was so astonished I was laughing. It was a funny, relaxing moment for both of us.

We discussed some D/s things. We've put our D/s on hold to a great degree, due to needing to resolve our relationship issues (obviously). But, there are aspects that are very natural for both of us and have continued because of that. We talked about that some and I was pleasantly surprised to find that we had a similar "take" on things that I thought we would not. :)

I also "came out" to a friend. He and I were very close friends in our teens. Then he married and his wife was extra-ordinarily possessive. I backed out of contact as she hated me for existing. They're divorcing (been in the works and living apart for over a year now). He reached out to me through my mom (who he kept in touch with). We've been slowly reconnecting over the last 3-4 months.
I was very happy that while he's NOT into non-monogamous relationships, he was very accepting of it being a fact of my life AND not tempted into the annoying "so, what about us" line of reasoning. I really loathe telling someone I'm poly and then having them assume that means they have a chance. It was nice to be able to open up and have a serious discussion and NOT have that occur-but also have the opening up create a more comfortable platform of honesty for us to build a friendship on.

All in all-a decently good week. I've had a lot of emotional struggles (internally); but everyone has been very patient and understanding and supportive as I work through them. :) Making slow progress!

[LovingRadiance]

Yes Annabel,
it IS very exciting.

There's so many aspects that I find exciting-that it's impossible to address them all.

We had planned to be moved down there last summer/fall. When that fell through... it was a severe blow. Having finally managed to clean up enough of that disaster to be able to realistically identify a new schedule/plan is a HUGE healing.

I so very badly need out of this cold place. It's simply not good for me (mental or physical health).

I'm looking forward to being SO much closer to poly-friends and being able to visit frequently and regularly. The isolation of such distance SUCKS.

I'm looking forward to having two months alone with Maca to reconnect, work on ourselves, get to know each other better. That will be the LONGEST time (by far) that we've ever had alone. The longest was 10 days in Hawaii for our honeymoon. Since we each had a child prior to becoming involved together we've rarely managed more than a weekend alone together. We've been fortunate that our poly-family has been able to allow us to regularly have a few hours and weekends alone. But, it will be nice to have such a long, defined, time to really get to know each other and bond. :)

[SNeacail]

Maca and I had a couple more LITTLE talks that were on serious topics for us. We managed to circumvent any arguments by using our agreed upon "pauses". I felt really bad over the one I caused. I interrupted him... he managed to "pause" and I immediately felt bad and apologized. I KNOW it's so disrespectful to interrupt when someone's trying to share with you. (slap forehead). But, we got past it and moved on productively. :)

AWESOME! Glad to know I'm not the only one that does this :eek: I love the feeling where we can move past that trigger point that would previously turn everything to shit.


Making slow progress!

I look at it this way, if progress comes too fast/easy, we took a short cut and it true progress wasn't really made. If it's slow but still moving forward, then maybe we have a better change of making it permanent. Kinda like training for a marathon. At least that's what I'm hoping :rolleyes:

I'm happy to hear you guys are moving to Spokane area, as you said on someone else's blog, it makes you easier to visit :).

[LovingRadiance]

I'm SO glad we've settled on Spokane and a date for the move. I'm SO SO glad!!

And

I agree, it is like a marathon, small changes are more likely to become permanent changes (just typed that on the weight loss thread not 2 minutes ago!).

;)

I made dinner tonight-doing that more often. Maca told me (again) that it was really good-doing that more often too. :) I am MUCH more inclined to bother with cooking when I know that someone is going to actually appreciate it-that's for sure (I don't much enjoy the process of cooking).

Mimi stopped by-she's been gone pretty much the last 4 weeks. Has a boyfriend, staying at his place for the most part. It was nice to see her, visit for a little bit.

Class started today, going to go do some reading now. :o

[ray]

Ooo washington! That sounds fun! :) I've been to Seattle and I loved it there. The northwest is so gorgeous, all that forest. I wouldn't mind moving to Portland.

I love cooking for people too. I don't get to do it very often but it's so much fun when someone else gets to enjoy it too. :) These days, I just cook a big batch of whatever and then eat it for the next week. ;)

[Magdlyn]

I'm so proud of Spicy-and nervous as hell. A "crisis" came up on Mother's Day. The result of which is that Little Pea's daddy is able to move back up here. SOOOOOOO, after all of the emotional upheaval-they're coming home. :D

So, he lost his job?



He was REALLY nervous about staying here (DITTO) because he doesn't want to be a "mooch". We've worked out an agreement for them to be here temporarily, to find work (not too hard here, we're not hit as bad with that as stateside) and get a place of their own.

... she comes home next Saturday.
THEN, flies back down there June 24th and she's leaving Little Pea with me......
They'll be driving up and hopefully here within 2 weeks-barring any complications.

So, I will have the baby for 2 weeks or so.... :eek:.

Has she already quit breastfeeding, or does she plan to wean by then?

[LovingRadiance]

No, he didn't lose his job, lost his roommate who got sent to Afghanistan.

I'm honestly not sure if she's still breastfeeding or not. But, she's going to have to ween him by then if she wants me to keep him for 2-4 weeks.
I haven't put a whole lot of effort into getting details-because she's SO MUCH easier to talk to in person than by text (she can't talk on the phone out of Alaska or she's on roaming) and she'll be here Saturday.

[LovingRadiance]

BLECH-sick of clouds!

My toes are cold and I have socks AND shoes on! Just looking at them makes me feel shivery!

Otherwise-things are going ok.

I finished 11 out of 15 assignments due in by Saturday, in my English111 class. Maca has the little one right now, so I'm getting ready to work on some more school work.

[Magdlyn]

No, he didn't lose his job, lost his roommate who got sent to Afghanistan.

I'm honestly not sure if she's still breastfeeding or not. But, she's going to have to ween him by then if she wants me to keep him for 2-4 weeks.
I haven't put a whole lot of effort into getting details...

Ahhh, it would break my heart to leave my infant for 2 to 4 weeks. I'm sure you'll do a great job taking care of the baby, but gosh, she's so young.

[LovingRadiance]

Mag, I can't even IMAGINE leaving my infant for so long, so early.... hell, so long. I wasn't apart for so long from any of mine before they were two.

BUT-I think for her, it's a matter of complete trust. She and I, well, it was just the two of us for 6 years before I married Maca. We have a different bond than just mother/daughter.

Ironically-I have a trip planned for two weeks later this year and then the two months with Maca next year. I told Maca not long ago, that I'd rather buy her a plane ticket to come up and babysit while GG's at work, than leave the kids with someone else while he's at work and we're gone.
SO, I guess the feeling is mutual. :D

I'm so excited that she's going to be home Saturday!! I'm sure in a week I'll be whining about babies interrupting my school work time; but for now-I'm just excited to see them again!!

[MrFarFromRight]

I really loathe telling someone I'm poly and then having them assume that means they have a chance.Oh, SHIT!!!;););):D:D:DAs to your hoping that Spicy has weaned the little one by the time you're left holding the baby, have a look at this (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=81444#post81444).:D:D:DHappy baby-sitting, Grandmaw!

[LovingRadiance]

Haha, ain't happening! After the breast reduction (from an F+ to a B-C cup) last March, there's a HIGH probability that I couldn't get enough milk even if I DID want to-which I DO NOT. ;)

[Magdlyn]

Wow, I didn't know about that. You must feel so much lighter. :)

[LovingRadiance]

Wow, I didn't know about that. You must feel so much lighter. :)

Unbelievably so. But, the more important part is that I have a life again.

I had a neck injury (C6-C7 disk). The fragments were pressing against my spine and cutting through the nerves to my left arm, pressing against the nerves to my right arm. The pain was so severe that I was VERY limited in what I could do at all.

Anyway-the weight of the breasts was exacerbating things. New Years Eve '09 I went in for emergency surgery on my neck. March 18th they cleared me as having made it through healthy and whole. Then, March 26th I was in surgery for the reduction. The C5-C6 disk was starting to go-they found that during the first surgery and the Dr's were adamant (not that I had an issue with it-I didn't) that the weight of the breasts was the problem that was causing my neck to fall apart.

SO-it's awesome to be lighter, able to move normally again, not on any pain meds, not in pain. :)
It was a 5 year long NIGHTMARE and I'm SO glad it's over!!!

[LovingRadiance]

My girl is home safe and sound. The baby is grumpy as hell about all of the change. ;)

Sat at the lake with them and my littlest one this afternoon-very relaxing!

It was warm and beautiful today. I happily worse my bikini top and shorts and was comfortable all day. YIPPEE. I LOVE SUMMER!

[Magdlyn]

Is the grandbaby still breastfeeding? Inquiring lactivists want to know!

So glad you got your neck and booby issues taken care of!

[LovingRadiance]

no, he's not breastfeeding. They made it to a little over 2-1/2 months then stopped.
:(

Maca and I got into an argument last night. I should have just gotten off of the phone, but I didn't.

Daughter left a cup on the couch when she went to bed, I was on hte phone with him, picking up the trail of things that weren't put away when everyone went to bed and commented on it.
He told me I needed to have a talk with her (which I have, we already have plans to go in and get her back on her ADD meds asap). I was offended because he already knows that she needs her medication and it won't do any good to say "don't be inattentive and forgetful" when she's TRYING not to be. (not that I didn't point out to her that she leaves stuff behind her in a trail-I DID). AND annoyed because he actually thought I DIDN'T say something???? THAT is not my forte-what makes him think I suddenly became good at it with HER?!?!?!

It wasn't a good conversation. :(

[SNeacail]

Daughter left a cup on the couch when she went to bed, I was on hte phone with him, picking up the trail of things that weren't put away when everyone went to bed and commented on it.
He told me I needed to have a talk with her (which I have, we already have plans to go in and get her back on her ADD meds asap). I was offended because he already knows that she needs her medication and it won't do any good to say "don't be inattentive and forgetful" when she's TRYING not to be. (not that I didn't point out to her that she leaves stuff behind her in a trail-I DID). AND annoyed because he actually thought I DIDN'T say something???? THAT is not my forte-what makes him think I suddenly became good at it with HER?!?!?!

I think I have been at every end of this issue. I have a house full of people that constantly leave a trail in their wake and I'm not much better. No matter how much I try they all leave their shit behind. My parents must have beat it into me about leaving dishes on the couch, I can't understand why the boys (all three of them) can't at least find the coffee table in front of their knees or the table at their elbow.:rolleyes:

Those conversations suck, one person "thinks" he is being supportive and helpful and it comes across as being insulting and beligerant. I have had to say, "I already said that exact thing and they won't listen to Mom, it's your turn", of course I'm already annoyed that he thinks it's just that simple. When you figure out how to change how those conversation go down, I would be so ever grateful to know the trick.

I have started a new thing to help with all the stuff left behind. Every night, while all the kids are still in the room, I have them pick up everything that doesn't belong there (trash, dishes, shoes, etc). They are not allowed to say "that's not mine" (I do have to remind them of this every time), but they have to take it to the room of the person it does belong to. It has helped to at least get stuff picked up, even if they don't just do it on their own yet.

Good Luck!

[LovingRadiance]

I'll keep you posted sneac. ;)
Thus far, the house is fairly clean. I have my own "scheduled routine" of picking up the livingroom every day before bed. :) I don't put stuff away, I toss it haphazardly at hte room of the person it belongs to. :) The younger boy is getting a clue... half a dozen to go. :P

[Magdlyn]

no, he's not breastfeeding. They made it to a little over 2-1/2 months then stopped.



Well, at least she won't need to wean him cold turkey just before she goes back.

[LovingRadiance]

That's true, I don't think it'd be fun with him having suddenly been taken off the breast. He's doing formula and the last of the frozen breast milk at the moment. She's hoping to make the drive in a week. It CAN be done... but that's a HELL of a lot of driving each day. I sure as hell wouldn't want to do it. BLECH.

[LovingRadiance]

I'm reading a hysterically funny book, "What French Women Know" by Debra Ollivier.

Working on letting go. In a variety of ways, places, etc.

Still doing home improvements so we can rent the house and get out of here.

I'm 3 weeks into a 10 week class at the college. 97% thus far. ;)

[Morningglory629]

I'm reading a hysterically funny book, "What French Women Know" by Debra Ollivier.

Working on letting go. In a variety of ways, places, etc.

Still doing home improvements so we can rent the house and get out of here.

I'm 3 weeks into a 10 week class at the college. 97% thus far. ;)

Good on ya LR! Sounds like a productive time for you.

I should have just gotten off of the phone, but I didn't.



Why do we do this? I had the same kind of two days. Just stop talking. Why can I not master the concept in a consistent way? I am really trying this time to not ignore a problem by just giving-in and saying "ok whatever you want." But at the same time I just do not have it in me to argue. I am just done. And I don't want to be nice about it either. I want to stick to my guns and get my point across and well just be heard. And not demanded of. I am actually just shutting down and I do not like that feeling.
I love Maca, ya know that I do. And I have told you before he and 2rings share similar personality traits. Hubs is more like GG. But why in the hell do we continue to argue with these guys. They are so stubborn. Obstinate. And have to really hurt us before they realize their offenses. JUST HANG UP! My new mantra.

[LovingRadiance]

Why do we do this? I had the same kind of two days. Just stop talking. Why can I not master the concept in a consistent way? I am really trying this time to not ignore a problem by just giving-in and saying "ok whatever you want." But at the same time I just do not have it in me to argue. I am just done. And I don't want to be nice about it either. I want to stick to my guns and get my point across and well just be heard. And not demanded of. I am actually just shutting down and I do not like that feeling.

Why do we do this, because we are determined to find resolution.
BUT-resolution when dealing with relationships is more complicated than it is when only dealing with ourselves!

The key I think (please feel free to find me wrong-this is just my theory), is acceptance.

We talk A LOT about acceptance. But what the fuck is it?

I've been following Ariakas thread and some of what Sage is going through. I have a very good friend I'm reconnecting with again who is also in AA. Acceptance is a big theme in AA and I think it's one of the keys to relationships that we're missing.

Acceptance doesn't mean "giving in" or giving up on ourselves and our own needs.

It means accepting that the other person is who they are and we are who we are and if at times those aren't compatible-so be it. THAT IS JUST THE WAY IT IS.

So what do you do after you've accepted that?

Well....

You take care of yourself.

Each of us is responsible first TO TAKE CARE OF OUR OWN SELF. We can't be supportive or helpful of others if we aren't ok ourselves.

SO, if I have a personal priority to devote 75% of my time to my kids, and someone wants to spend time with me, they can either spend it with me AND MY KIDS or they can ask if I have time available for them in the other 25%...

If they don't want to spend time with my kids, then they are stuck with accepting what I have available for them during my 25%.

I AM NOT OBLIGATED to make more time available to them outside of that 25%.
I am not obligated to give them all of my 25% to make up for the "loss" of my unavailability outside of that 25%.

I am FREE to offer them whatever amount of time seems reasonable TO ME of that 25% and they can take it or leave it.

LIKEWISE, if I want to spend time with someone, but I don't want to spend it with them while they are with their OSO; I have the right to request time when their OSO is not with them.
IF they choose to devote 75% of their time to being with their OSO, then I will have to accept the LIMITED amount of time they are willing to offer me from their other 25% of time and they are NOT OBLIGATED to give it all to me or to increase what they would give me because of the unavailability the other 75% of the time.

We spend a lot of time trying to get what we want from other people.
What I think we REALLY need to do is start getting what we want from ourselves and then we'll be more able to productively assess what it is we have available to give to others.


So, with Maca.....

I'm working on accepting that if he doesn't want to spend time with me in certain environments-that's his right. There is NO REASON I need to explain to him why this has a negative impact on our time together, he's not stupid. In fact, he's quite intelligent and capable of seeing for himself what the impact is or is not.
MY JOB is to accept that I have relationships that are meaningful parts of my life, including my relationship with him. I can offer my time up as I see fit. Others can accept or decline as they see fit, including Maca.

In terms of how that plays out regarding our time together, I've made myself clear that he is ALWAYS welcome to spend time with the "family" as we all see him as part of our family. He is ALWAYS welcome to join us for meals, hang out or go to activities we are participating in.

I am not canceling my activities with the family (yes that includes GG) in order to spend time with him. Not because I don't want to spend time with him, I do. But because my priority is the family. He is a part of that, but not a more or less important part than the rest of the individuals in the family. It's HIS RIGHT to choose what his priorities are, and not my place to pressure him one way or the other.

I don't know how well it's going to work. But, we survived the "bad week of the month" for me this last week with flying colors. The biggest thing I noticed different was that I spent a lot of time just biting my tongue while I considered if it was really necessary or helpful to say what was on my mind-and then deciding that no, it wasn't.

Doesn't change the way I felt or what I thought. But, it's not necessary for me to share it. ;)

I didn't "cave" on what was important to me.
I didn't pressure him to do something he didn't want to do.
I didn't fight.

[Morningglory629]

Food for thought LR. I often say, can we not just agree to disagree? But some people can't let things go at that. and that is usually when I become obstinate.
BUT YOU ARE SO RIGHT! I have X amount of time, and letting resentment build because of having to drop things and rearrange my schedule to always be accomodating has definitely left me less accepting. So thank you for this post.

[rory]

Hi, I've read a bit of your blog. Your post about acceptance is so wonderful, thank you. :) There is so much stuff in your post that I am trying to learn myself, too. For me it is the hardest to accept what I am and what I need. I too often try to please, even if some things are just part of me and I should not try to change them for others. I try to change them even when nobody has asked me to, because I assume they won't be accepted by others. I think a lot of this has to do with being afraid. But I have to try to stop doing this because it is not beneficial to anybody (least to myself).

[MrFarFromRight]

I have started a new thing to help with all the stuff left behind. Every night, while all the kids are still in the room, I have them pick up everything that doesn't belong there (trash, dishes, shoes, etc). They are not allowed to say "that's not mine" (I do have to remind them of this every time), but they have to take it to the room of the person it does belong to. It has helped to at least get stuff picked up, even if they don't just do it on their own yet.I invented another method. I told the 4 girls (2-9 year-olds) that if they didn't pick up all their own [collective - I didn't want to get into arguments, either, but I also didn't want them to clear up the grown-ups' mess (I WISH my mother had used this trick on me: I'm still a slob)] stuff within 1/4 hour, I would... but then that load of stuff wasn't going to reappear for 2 weeks.

They called my bluff (mixture of cockiness and nervousness as the 1/4 ran out) and let things lay. I popped everything into a large black rubbish bag and stored it in the attic (for exactly 2 weeks - I don't believe in lying to children). [The only access to the attic was a trapdoor in the ceiling of my bedroom - without a fixed ladder.]

They had plenty of toys, clothes, and books, so there was no shortage of things to play with, wear, or read... even if they did complain that I was "UNFAIR!!!". [Even the girls' parents asked if I couldn't consider a "parole".]

The next time the living room was a complete mess, I asked - as sweet as pie:p:p:p - "Would you girls like to clear this up or shall I?"

I never had any trouble after that. You should have seen that 2-year-old help!

[MrFarFromRight]

I am FREE to offer them whatever amount of time seems reasonable TO ME of that 25% and they can take it or leave it.

LIKEWISE, if I want to spend time with someone, but I don't want to spend it with them while they are with their OSO; I have the right to request time when their OSO is not with them.
IF they choose to devote 75% of their time to being with their OSO, then I will have to accept the LIMITED amount of time they are willing to offer me from their other 25% of time and they are NOT OBLIGATED to give it all to me or to increase what they would give me because of the unavailability the other 75% of the time.

We spend a lot of time trying to get what we want from other people.
What I think we REALLY need to do is start getting what we want from ourselves and then we'll be more able to productively assess what it is we have available to give to others.


So, with Maca.....

I'm working on accepting that if he doesn't want to spend time with me in certain environments-that's his right. There is NO REASON I need to explain to him why this has a negative impact on our time together, he's not stupid. In fact, he's quite intelligent and capable of seeing for himself what the impact is or is not.
MY JOB is to accept that I have relationships that are meaningful parts of my life, including my relationship with him. I can offer my time up as I see fit. Others can accept or decline as they see fit, including Maca.

In terms of how that plays out regarding our time together, I've made myself clear that he is ALWAYS welcome to spend time with the "family" as we all see him as part of our family. He is ALWAYS welcome to join us for meals, hang out or go to activities we are participating in.

I am not canceling my activities with the family (yes that includes GG) in order to spend time with him. Not because I don't want to spend time with him, I do. But because my priority is the family. He is a part of that, but not a more or less important part than the rest of the individuals in the family. It's HIS RIGHT to choose what his priorities are, and not my place to pressure him one way or the other.

I don't know how well it's going to work. But, we survived the "bad week of the month" for me this last week with flying colors. The biggest thing I noticed different was that I spent a lot of time just biting my tongue while I considered if it was really necessary or helpful to say what was on my mind-and then deciding that no, it wasn't.

Doesn't change the way I felt or what I thought. But, it's not necessary for me to share it. ;)

I didn't "cave" on what was important to me.
I didn't pressure him to do something he didn't want to do.
I didn't fight.Inspiring. Thank you!

[LovingRadiance]

Food for thought LR. I often say, can we not just agree to disagree? But some people can't let things go at that. and that is usually when I become obstinate.
BUT YOU ARE SO RIGHT! I have X amount of time, and letting resentment build because of having to drop things and rearrange my schedule to always be accomodating has definitely left me less accepting. So thank you for this post.
MG-it's certainly a lesson in progress for me. I often am able to agree to disagree, you are right, there are those who are NOT. But, it's not necessary for me to PROVE my point. It's necessary for me to do what it is that makes me the best possible version of myself and if that is difficult for them-they can handle that on their time. They have the right (just as do I) to take up their time ANYWAY THEY WANT TO on their own. They don't have the right to enforce that I also participate in the way they are taking up their time.
This IS hard for me, because, using the example of Maca; I love him and I want to spend time with him. BUT-if spending time with him creates conflict and guilt and problems because he doesn't want to spend that time here... then it's not time well spent.

I'm better off (as crazy as it feels in the moment) waiting for a time when I can spend it with him in a way we are BOTH happy and enjoying. ;)

Easier said that done for sure. But, I'm getting better at letting myself do what I need to do. Last night I wanted to spend with him-when he said he didn't have to work til late I was BENT with desire to be with him. But, I didnt' want to leave the little one with GG again. I wanted to get her through her shower, wash her up and have some cuddle time before she went to bed because I babysat another 7month old all day so we didnt' get our cuddle time in.

I chose to stay home. It was the right choice. I missed him. But, it's HIS RIGHT and HIS CHOICE to not be here. THIS is my home and my life and my family and my choice.

I try to change them even when nobody has asked me to, because I assume they won't be accepted by others. I think a lot of this has to do with being afraid. But I have to try to stop doing this because it is not beneficial to anybody (least to myself).
Ah yes, not helpful. Having done that for years and slammed my head into the proverbial door of reality one to many times I can tell you-it's mUCH MUCH MUCH easier to live life with joy and fulfiflment if you allow yourself the privilege of being who you are. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

Inspiring. Thank you!

Why, you're welcome Mr. Left. HEHEHEHEHEHEHHE!
Hope you are having a great week!!

HUGS!

:D

[AnnabelMore]

I invented another method. I told the 4 girls (2-9 year-olds) that if they didn't pick up all their own [collective - I didn't want to get into arguments, either, but I also didn't want them to clear up the grown-ups' mess (I WISH my mother had used this trick on me: I'm still a slob)] stuff within 1/4 hour, I would... but then that load of stuff wasn't going to reappear for 2 weeks.

Genius! :D

[LovingRadiance]

Romance-
Fucking terrible week.

School-FUCKING AWESOME WEEK!

I'm so... proud of myself (is that a bad thing?).

I accidentally sent my first paper to the wrong instructor. That instructor read it-reviewed and critiqued it and then sent an email to the correct instructor and myself including the following quotes:

"I don't know Ms. LR, but the paper she attaches is excellent - better than all or nearly all of the essays I've ever received from students in ENGL A111, if that is indeed what it is. Someone capable of writing such a paper does not need to take so elementary a course as ENGL A111."

"The essay's only weakness, to my mind, is its failure to state the other side of the argument, if only to refute it."

I emailed back a thank you for the critique-because it was VERY helpful information for future papers and got a response including the following:

"I think you have gifts as an expository writer, and want to encourage you to continue to develop them if that is the direction of your interest."

That REALLY made my day.

:)

[Ariakas]

Congrats.. :D.. Kudos and.. WOOT!!!..

[LovingRadiance]

Thanks Ari. :o

Only thing that would make it more exciting is if I were celebrating it by joining you all to watch RP in the burlesque show this weekend.
Ah, but someday!

[Magdlyn]

Oh, that's so great, LR. Congrats. :o

[ray]

Oooo, how sweet! I love stuff that like. :) Who wouldn't?

[Ariakas]

Thanks Ari. :o

Only thing that would make it more exciting is if I were celebrating it by joining you all to watch RP in the burlesque show this weekend.
Ah, but someday!

It would have been a blast. It was a great time...(I think pengrah might look at doing it) maybe next time ;)

[LovingRadiance]

Whaaaa???

Of course, you're devastated!

Real relationship with GG? But it's real now, how is this going to make it suddenly real? What is the logic here? He has a gf, can't he abide by you having GG as well as Maca in your life? Maca's staying married to you doesn't mean the relationship with GG isn't real. And having GG in your life doesn't mean your marriage to Maca is less than or not "real."

I'm just blurting out what comes to mind. I know you know these things. Where is he? Can I go shake him? :/

Sorry to hear this is happening, but at least he wants to talk - maybe you can convey to him somehow that this is not what you want and there can be a way to stay together. It seems like you are both doing so well living apart, you can still be married and have such an arrangement.
__________________
I'm so sorry LR; I hope that you find a way to move forward.
------------------------------------
Sorry to hear this Pretty Lady...I had so hoped to see you, GG and Maca come for a visit. I tried e-mailing Maca a while ago to see how he was doing but I don't think he checks this sight anymore...I'm still here if he needs anything just as I am for you and GG.


-------Hugs LR! --------


Thanks all.

Live in the feeling, experience it until you can accept it, then forward movement will follow. That's the plan.
That and READ POLYNERDISTS BLOG FREQUENTLY. Because, he inspires me.

[LovingRadiance]

I got a 95/100 on my paper. :)
I still have a revision to write-and some great ideas for it. But, I'm thrilled with the grade.
;)

[SNeacail]

I got a 95/100 on my paper. :)
I still have a revision to write-and some great ideas for it. But, I'm thrilled with the grade.
;)

Congrats!

[LovingRadiance]

thanks sneac. :)

I'm thrilled. I was really nervous. Everyone else got their grades last weekend. I JUST got mine today.

The next major paper (there are 4) is due Wednesday.

[Magdlyn]

Hey LR, you haven't posted in weeks. I hope you're OK!

[Minxxa]

Thanks all.

Live in the feeling, experience it until you can accept it, then forward movement will follow. That's the plan.
That and READ POLYNERDISTS BLOG FREQUENTLY. Because, he inspires me.

Yes, Yes and Yes. I'm finally just learning to feel the feelings... and I will definitely go check out polynerdists blog, I haven't gotten around to it yet...

Hope all is well...

[AnnabelMore]

Hey LR, you haven't posted in weeks. I hope you're OK!

This.

[MrFarFromRight]

Hey LR, you haven't posted in weeks. I hope you're OK!This.Yep, we're still alive.
Yep, we're all still together.

Nope, haven't been posting.

Yep, still blogging.

Yep, still poly.

Grandbaby rocks and life is good.
;)Very happy :):):) to read that things are going well, but missing :(:confused::confused: your input on this thread. I, too, have only recently returned. (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14360) Hugs to you and the family.

[LovingRadiance]

Sorry for disappearing. There are many things one has to do in life, but dealing with online attitude isn't one of them. So, instead of hanging out and getting emotionally irate about it-I took a hiatus from the board.

I'm doing well. Spent 15 days in Hawaii with Maca. There were some battles, but we're still moving along.

A couple days ago, he was playing video games with our 11 year old. Usually I would just go to the bedroom or the bath and read. But, GG was curled up in his bed while the 4 year old watched a movie.
So I went to GG's room and cuddled up with him for an hour.

It's such a tiny step it seems embarrassing to mention. But, it was a huge step for us, because I did what felt right for me AND it didn't result in any drama with Maca.

[nycindie]

Hi LR,
Sorry you were getting attitude here, but glad to hear you're doing well and were able to enjoy time away in a tropical place! http://messenger.msn.com/MMM2006-04-19_17.00/Resource/emoticons/62_62.gif And yes, every success, no matter how small, is worth noting.

:)

[Derbylicious]

Welcome back LR :D

[Magdlyn]

Welcome back, LR!

[Magdlyn]

Oops. Posted the same thing as Derby in the same minute!

[Derbylicious]

Oops. Posted the same thing as Derby in the same minute!

Great minds...

[AnnabelMore]

Good to hear from you. :)