not feeling so good...

[redsirenn]

I met Ouroboro's other interest this weekend. I spent friday night over there and all day sunday with them on the river. She is still in town until tuesday evening.

I realized I don't really have a problem with jealousy, which is great. However, I still feel incredibly uncomfortable. I thought about this for a while and realized that I just don't feel that I am treated "special". He treats me well, but all day sunday I felt some distance and could not pin it down. I have always known that if this was going to work, that it would require more than the usual compassion, affection, etc. than in a monogamous relationship because people involved need to feel INVOLVED.

I brought it up briefly last night because she was still around, but only mentioned that he seemed distant. He responded by saying that it is time for a check-in regarding our relationship, and that he still feels uncomfortable with the bf/gf situation we currently have.

I have no idea why, and to be honest it is driving me a little bonkers. To top it off, I am alone this week, as ALL of my friends are out of town. normally, I could quell fears by hanging out with them and distracting myself. But I cannot today.

I told myself before she got here there were things I wanted to see - actions of his I was going to pay attention to. I am saddened because I did not/ do not feel that he is doing his best to help all of us feel comfortable and wanted.

I am not a needy person. In fact, quite the opposite - I know there are others that I may not even know yet that will fulfill all my desires. Because of this, I have the confidence to move on if I need to. BUT - I don't know what to do here...

Do I talk to him now and give him a chance to act on things before she leaves, or wait patiently until Tuesday evening?

[XYZ123]

How is he acting with her? Is he treating her more "special"? Does she seem as uncomfortable? Maybe, as much as he wants this, he is just as uncomfortable with the situation as you are. Maybe he doesn't know how to act with both of you there and is afraid of jealousy and insecurity. Can you get some time alone with him to talk about this without taking time from him and her or the three of you together? I would talk to him if I got the chance. But I'd probably wait it out if there was no way to get him alone, but tell him we needed to talk asap when she left.

[redsirenn]

Hi,
I just talked with him for a bit on the phone. Apparently he is confused as well. Neither of us have ever gone down this road, and we have our own insecurities and fears. He is worried that I will change my mind and decide not to explore polyamory, I was worried he would try to rush me.

We didn't have much time, and will get together after she leaves to talk some more. Although not everything was brought out of under the rug, we both felt a little better knowing that our fears were not justified.

I will update this once I talk with him. Thanks for your help. I cannot tell you how much the people on here have helped me process this stuff.

-RS

[redsirenn]

I need some advice on how to get past this uncomfortable feeling. I have thought about it for a bit, and it is the fear of loss for sure. I am worried that when Ouroboros and her begin to get more involved that he will leave. He said he has no plans on leaving, and they have not yet explored anything physically... I can't stop worrying though.

And the thing is, that If it were not another woman, (if we ended because of incompatibility reasons) I really would not be as hurt...

Please, any advice is welcome!!! I really don't know how to process this. I know all the rational facts, but my feelings are otherwise.

[River]

Red,

There's only one way to get right to the heart of a matter like this one. You've got to let him go.

Did your stomach sink when you read those words?

Well, when I said "you've got to let him go" I didn't mean that you've gotta end the relationship. What I meant was that you should drop the unconscious or semi-conscious (or whatever) belief that your joy, happiness, self-worth or self-esteem..., etc. depends on whether or not he will ever abandon you for another -- or otherwise leave you or this world.

You're not going to drop that, however, unless you first see it clearly and find it to be false -- and this is only very partially an intellectual endeavor. It's mainly a feeling endeavor, and can only be approached moment by moment, ... by moment by moment... -- in other words, right now. That's all we've ever really got, right now, and our right nows are where we construct the habits, emotional or conceptual, that conspire to make how our lives go.

Every relationship should best begin with letting the other go, because when we cling and that clinging causes fear and resentment (etc.) it always messes up all that is good in these relationships. Clinging, grasping..., has exactly (precisely!) the opposite effect of insuring that the other will stick around in a loving, joyous, beautiful sort of way. And the irony is that letting go is probably the only and best way to keep the ones we love around.

[redsirenn]

Thanks J, I read that post several times. I can't agree more.

I have a question for you all, maybe you can help me with this:
I am discovering that our relationship is developing in the way that I had hoped and could not be happier… but I have this fear of the future. The what-ifs, you know? What if he leaves me for someone else, what if this relationship is a bad idea for someone who has gone through a divorce, AND a rape? I am sensitive to these things, and definitely do not want to purposely place myself in a bad situation. Everything else about this relationship is great at the moment – great sex, open communication, friendship, honesty, fun, chemistry, respect...

Any advice from someone that has had similar experiences in the past?

What of this is me trying to overcome social conditioning? And, is this a natural part of overcoming this, if so? Or should I listen to these fears more seriously?

When do you decide to pay attention to what the future might hold, instead of focusing on the present, even if the present is good? Do you ever?

As you can see, I am confused... again.

If mono is reading, I would like some input from you too... thanks!

[River]

Everything else about this relationship is great at the moment – great sex, open communication, friendship, honesty, fun, chemistry, respect...

In another topic in this forum there has been talk about "security" in relation to commitment in loverly relationships. And as I was reading that I was thinking that while seeking certain kinds of "security" in loverly relationships is valid enough, and understandable enough, ... well, we humans are typically a fair bit confused as to what sort of security we can or should expect to find in our loverly relationships. What's realistic?

If already there is "great sex, open communication, friendship, honesty, fun, chemistry, respect... ", "at the moment," my goodness, there's about as much legitimate security in that as one could ever hope for! The key is which moment you are in.

The key is what moment you are in.

The key is what moment you are in.

I repeat this because this is the moment, right NOW, here and now, where the seed of the future can be nourished with your own lovingkindness and mindfulness. And the best way to nourish that seed is to let the future go. It's really none of your business. Rather, the seed of the future (which is now) is your business -- along with this infiinite present moment in all of its changes.

The surest way to poison future NOW moments is to wrap the present moment in anxiety about them. This also poisons the now moment. The anxiety that goes along the lines of "What if X leaves me?!" ... or "What if X suddenly dies in a firey plane wreck/cancer/meteor shower...? ... What does that fear/worry anxiety do? It makes us pull away, contract, ... We then fear giving our best or our all to X, because already X is abandoning us, in our imaginations. Our feared imaginings take over and poison the quality our relating with X, and that has an affect -- and the affect may be just what we fear most: distance rather than closeness with X!

Yes, the future needs attending to, of course! Yes, planning and thinking of the future is necessary -- to some extent, in appropriate and realistic ways. But if it is joy and happiness you want, attend primarily to now. Now is quite obviously all you have in time, the whole of it. The future belongs to itself, along with the past, but your purchase on existence and reality is ... right now. And then now again. And -- LOOK! -- it's still now.

And now again.

[redsirenn]

Hello again.

I know that this is true. This is something I repeated to myself frequently for a while...but I must have forgotten. I think I needed someone to remind me of this.

Thanks again for the wonderful insight. Freedom to be yourself and not feel judged in a relationship is a beautiful thing. That is something I want, and want to give to others.

[River]

We all need reminding, myself no less than any other.

[redpepper]

I agree that living in the moment is important, especially if you are to enjoy yourself, but one needs to live every moment with the end result in mind. Perhaps there is something that is left un-answered for you, or that you feel unsure about. When Mono wrote the thread he did about this some time ago he was trying to live in the moment because of un-communicated issues that I had to drag out of him. He had misunderstood, or didn't understand something and instead of voicing it, bottled it and got scared and paranoid, which lead to his living in the moment and not thinking about the future. Once it was all out in the open there was a huge shift and we all enjoyed the moment much more because we were all thinking about our continued happiness and future building.

I'm not saying that this is the case for you, but worth thinking about maybe???

If it isn't I totally know what you mean... although I don't think about bad stuff coming up, more like, "how could this possibly feel so natural and right???!!! how could I possibly be in this situation and feel so at home and whole???!!!"

[River]

Yes, caring for the future is important. But it is just important to remind ourselves, frequently, that we neither do nor can live in the future -- for as soon as the future arrives it is is the present: now. The future is always arriving as the next moment, and yet the only moment we really have is now. And now again.

What we think and do in the present puts a spin on how things unfold into the future nows. We can catch ourselves in the act of putting that spin in things when we notice the pattern or habits of thought we're enacting. If we're having a lot of "What if he leaves (abandons) me?" thoughts, and we look into that, we may notice that, for example, we had the same tendency last time we were involved in a loverly relationship. If we look even more we may remember some sort of abandonment we experienced as children. If we continue to look, we may realize that our whole posture to things in life is about trying to keep ourselves from being abandoned, and that our unaddressed abandonment trauma keeps us from enjoying our relationships in the present. So isn't it interesting that by paying even closer attention to the present we can begin to liberate ourselves from the habits of our past -- and thereby cultivate a happier future mainly by attending to now?

[redsirenn]

Hi Redpepper -
I think it is somewhat like that. It is all based on fear... fear of loss in some way. Also, the fear that if he knows this is "temporary" then I do not want to invest so much.

The thing is we cannot promise that we will be together forever... For one, It is simply too soon. I can't say that to him either. I do not even know if I want that yet. And really, We are enjoying ourselves. This is something I do not want to run away from - even if it were "temporary". At the moment, anyways.

So, It is a bit irrational... He said that he can promise that he will be honest with me. And that he does want to keep seeing me.

In my marriage I had the promise of "forever". But not the promise of honesty... And the "forever" was a lie.... so I really had nothing. Ironic.

I hate to compare to that horrible relationship, but I can't help it sometimes. As my friend said " if you compare all your future relationships to your marriage, you will ALWAYS sell yourself short, even if they are light-years better." - yes, she was right on. Sad, but true.

[River]

It is all based on fear... fear of loss in some way. Also, the fear that if he knows this is "temporary" then I do not want to invest so much.

Everything is temporary. Nothing at all lasts forever. People die, they end romantic relationships..., things are always changing, and nothing can stop this constant change from doing what it will.

Some relationships hold together for decades, even lifetimes. But they all end, if not prior to death then at death.

When you embrace that fact unflinchingly, without turning away, you can liberate your heart from the fear of loss -- which may keep you from opening to the fullness of the sharing of love in the only time you have: now.

since feeling is first
e.e. cummings

since feeling is first
who pays any attention
to the syntax of things
will never wholly kiss you ....

http://www.cs.berkeley.edu/~richie/poetry/html/poem162.html

[redpepper]

The promise of "forever" but not the promise of "honesty".

Well isn't that just hitting the nail on the head of what the problem with marriage is. I think "honesty" should be added to those vows that are handed to us because for some reason we think we can't make our own.

I'm so glad I didn't say those when I married my husband because they really do sink in some how and have meaning. We made our own and still stick to them. "Honesty" was amongst the words I believe as we were poly back then too.

Maybe you could make your own vows about this whole thing. Something along the lines of, "I will vow to stay true to myself and my boundaries. I will take care to not become so involved that I don't leave a path to the future that is my own and no one elses. I will live in the moment, while keeping the future in mind. I will nurture what I am creating, stay open to change, growth, self care and love. I will be honest and willing to let go of jealousy, fear, and any past experience that could taint what I have today."

Any, all or whatever works for you, could be very powerful in making yourself feel content with things where they are and where you are going. This kind of thing helps me on a daily basis as I tend to get wrapped up in things that I have no control over and have nothing to do with me.

[MonoVCPHG]

"I will vow to stay true to myself and my boundaries. I will take care to not become so involved that I don't leave a path to the future that is my own and no one elses. I will live in the moment, while keeping the future in mind. I will nurture what I am creating, stay open to change, growth, self care and love. I will be honest and willing to let go of jealousy, fear, and any past experience that could taint what I have today."

.

Wow ..were these your vows?

[redpepper]

no no, those are ones I thought of that Redsirenn could say to herself to get through her doubtful feelings.

[confusedbutcurious1]

I just wanted to say that this was a great post and helped me a lot by reading it. I know that in my situation is close to yours in the fact that what I feel a lot of is fear. I am slowly losing my fear but it is a very slow process for me. It is frustrating. I wish you the best!

[AutumnalTone]

I think those fears of the future can arise any time there are major life changes going on. I'm currently unemployed and I have to go a couple of rounds daily with fears of an uncertain future. Changes in major relationships bring on the same sort of thing.

One thing I've found that helps is to create scenarios for both good and ill. Think of the good ways that the future can play out and feel how good that would be. Then think of how bad things could play out--and then how you would get past the bad stuff and how good that would feel.

In other words, figure out how to arrive at a good place, regardless of what happens.

[I'm really stressed about the job search, so I think I need to do more of this.]

[XYZ123]

I think those fears of the future can arise any time there are major life changes going on.

Absolutely. I have a second child on the way and am recently unemployed due to the pregnancy. I worry about stress, money, space, not being able to give my 100% to the husband and both kids, let alone ever have another relationship. But I know that as time goes on it will all settle into its own natural rhythm. And then I won't even remember what I was so worried about. (I hope. ;) )

[pokey]

I have read a lot of these threads especially Redpeppers . I have a lot of trouble dealing with the stress of feeling like I live with such a huge secret. How do people deal with this??

[MonoVCPHG]

How do people deal with this??

I don't..people ask and I tell if the question is right.

[pokey]

This situation would be unacceptable to my neighbors, friends, and family!

[NeonKaos]

This situation would be unacceptable to my neighbors, friends, and family!


I guess you have to figure out what's more important - pleasing yourself or pleasing the neighbors, friends, and family.

You are the only one who can control you, and you are the only one you can control.

[pokey]

I guess I am a worry wart by nature but also felt I was alone in this lifestyle. I didn't set out looking for this situation I was just blessed with two amazing people to cross my life path. I just googled this lifestyle and am suprised to see that lots of other people are involved in it as well. One of my other major worries is my own children and the effects it can have on them in the future.

[redpepper]

Is there any access to community near you? I get a huge amount of support from knowing people here who are similar in thinking to me. They don't all do it the same, but I can at least feel I am not completely alone. This forum helps for sure too.

We are off to our monthly poly meeting tonight. I can't wait to see everyone again, even though a few I have seen since last month. it's always eye opening, interesting, entertaining and thought provoking to say the least. This month we are doing some exercises from "The Ethical Slut." I'm not a huge fan of the book now, but it did get me thinking I wasn't crazy about 12 years ago. We'll see how it goes tonight. If nothing else it will be great to even discuss the book!

[MonoVCPHG]

If nothing else it will be great to even discuss the book!

Speak for yourself :eek: Satan's Bible, here we come :(

I'm sooo dramatic...but I do hate that book

[redsirenn]

ditto. I hate it too... for many of the same reasons you list in other threads.

[pokey]

Redpepper,
Thank you for your reply. Some more background on me/us. We are all professionals and are very present in the community we live in. This proves to be difficult at times, but I can usually deal with it. We have been in a triad for 7 years. MFM. One mono and then my husband and myself. The mono is divorced with kids of his own. None of the kids "know" persay, but they realize we are super close friends and plan to build our lives together. The kids never seem to have a problem with the closeness, they actually accept it all, it seems natural to them. My kids call him uncle since my children are younger and his kids think it is funny to call me god mom to avoid others questioning of not really being related. The exwife however has made this situation pretty crazy at times. We all moved in together a few years ago and if we lived in a bubble life would be so easy for the most part. Other people really make this situation more difficult

[redpepper]

YAY! someone in a MFM like me, it isn't very common is it?
You sound like you are struggling, but I am not sure what the specifics are? If you have all been together for 7 years, why now? What specifically is going on that makes it all a struggle right now? What has the ex wife done in the past that has made it difficult and what is it with the neighbors that would make your family unexceptionable in their eyes?

[pokey]

You say it is not quite common... I actually thought I was completely alone in this situation! I have yet to hear of anything like it ever in my life... it was new to me as well and I just sorta fell into it without any prior thought etc... It just seemed right at the time. Natural and pure, no agendas just everyone looking out for the other with a bond that I can't even explain. Since I have kids of school age I do get questions like who is that? my kids always tell people their uncle lives with them too and at times some bold people will say he is not your real uncle because he is not your mom or dads sibling. I can't even imagine saying that to anyone ever, the nerve of some people. I guess for a long time now I feel I have this burden of a secret on my shoulders, it is probable a weight I put on myself. I sometimes have a hard time with the fact that the mono won't ever be "more" in other peoples eyes. I am not sure why that matters to me because his concern is what we have together and needs no other approval or recognition. Knowing I am with him is all he needs and I wish I could be more like that too. My husband is a pure saint and tells me we all know what we have , share etc.. and why is more love bad? If other people surmise, questions etc. he doesn't really care either. Another issue for me are my kids who are my driving force in life and I would never want this to effect them negatively in the future. Mono and my husband think the more people they have to trully love and support them is only a benefit. As for the ex well she is a certified crazy to begin with, but she tries to brainwash her and mono's kids into believing we are all whacko's! She also tries to make them and everyone believe we are possibly mooching to take from what they would have had and that my family is more impt then them and on and on. They are getting older and we just try and stay consistent and two have seen the light, but it has been a journey and magnified because of her to say the least. So... your right I am struggling and I am usually a pretty independent confident person ,but I sometimes have a hard time working through and processing this situation. As for my family and neighbors, i think I was more friendly and close in the past but as our triad gets closer I get more paranoid of questions and have somewhat retreated and am more secretive about what we do. My family also gets super jealous and questioning about why I spend so much time with him and not more time with them? And usually it is because as I get older and have super busy lives when I have free time I want to be with them and my children because they lift me up and make me a better person and if I go with them I am filled with anxiety and worry about the questions to come. I look forward to your insights on my situation!:)

[redpepper]

If you are in a triad then I would question if anyone is Mono.... wouldn't you be in a "V" if that is the case? So, are both of our men mono then... ? or Poly? Is your husband interested in others, or does he have another?

It's confusing your use of Mono to describe someone other than my Mono... hmmmm... is it possible to call him something else?

I hear you on the questions from the parents and the jealous they have around not spending time with us. I am facing that more and more these days... in fact it has come down to a family talk soon.... AHHHHHH! I feel as if I were 10 and about to get in trouble.

Hope that you are getting some much needed community from this forum.

[XYZ123]

Every once in awhile I thank the good spirits I am the black sheep of the family and no one cares who I spend my time with. Sure, they love me, but I established from very young I was not theirs but my own person. So they're glad to have me about, and just as glad to leave me be.

[pokey]

Redpepper:
Sorry to confuse you with the titles: mono and V. These are completely new terms to me and I thought Mono was the term everyone maybe used for the person who wasn't married in the relationship? and I understand V but, didn't even know such things existed in the first place. Hence feeling a bit crazy or different. My husband is only with me and my "friend" is only with me. I have always been in a hetero monogamous relationship in the past and have no interests in any other pursuals. My dance card is full!

[NeonKaos]

Well, that IS what "mono" means, but RP's boyfriend's user name is "Mono" (with some additional letters after), and that's how we refer to him in the 3rd person on this forum for short.

[MonoVCPHG]

I thought Mono was the term everyone maybe used for the person who wasn't married in the relationship? !

Heehee..no "Mono" is the name I use because I am wired monogamously...in that I only Love and want Redpepper in a physically intimate way.
The person who isn't married but involved with a married couple doesn't need to be monogamous. Usually they are "commonly" referred to as secondaries.
They can be poly too.

[redpepper]

Yes, thanks ygirl. That is what I meant. Thanks for clarifying for me. I was assuming pokey that you had read other threads and knew that.

[pokey]

I think I get it now!! Sorry for the confusion....So therefore my label would be :I am the only poly one and I am with two men wired straight mono men who only want me, but have agreed to share me!! So this is a V , right?

[XYZ123]

Correct! That is a V Pokey. :)