New to Poly and needing help

[Fidelia]

I need some help, and there’s no one I can talk to. I’m hoping someone here has some insight to help me deal with this.

The Backstory:
I’m in a long-term, stable, very happy monogamous marriage, 17 years together, 15 married. A couple of months ago, I fantasized out loud with my hubby about adding this friend or that friend to our relationship. I was just fantasizing, letting my imagination really take a walk on the wild side, but my beloved jumped all over the idea and was immediately ready to go poly for real. Right then. As in, “Let me make a few phone calls.“ YIKES! In fact, he told me he’d been patiently waiting all this time, hoping I’d want to open our marriage some day but recognizing it probably would never happen.

Yowie . . . I had no idea. I had never given the idea any thought, much less serious consideration. I certainly never knew this was something my beloved wanted. But now I know. And he’s clearly very, very serious. So I started thinking about it.

After much soul-searching, research and examination of my own feelings, my honest assessment was and is that opening our hearts and lives to additional lovers is scary and risky. I’m primarily scared of damaging or destroying the good thing we’ve got going between us, but the other risks are there too (the potential for damaging valued friendships, the social pressure, family issues, plus health risks I thought I’d never have to consider again, etc.). But more than I was afraid of any of these potential problems, I earnestly desired that my beloved have the desire of his heart. And there is a lot to like about poly, as I‘m sure everyone on this forum is aware. So I agreed to try polyamory.

The first person we decided to invite into a new relationship with us was my bff of many years, whom I’ll call Star. I felt uncomfortably shy starting the discussion, so my husband spoke with her, and he told me she’d agreed to try it out.

The Incident:

(I’m going to *try* and just report the facts, with as little of my own commentary and opinions as possible.)

Star came to visit us for a few days, which she’s done many times before. (She lives a couple of hours away from us.) On the first night of her visit, she and I were sitting in the living room visiting when Hubby came and invited the two of us to join him in the bedroom.

I took him up on his invitation, went into the bedroom and waited for them. And waited . . . And waited . . . and waited. Forty-five very long minutes later, feeling very confused, I went to see what was up, and saw the two of them leaving the guest room together. I immediately felt extremely hurt, confused and abandoned. I confronted them, accusing them (mostly him) of ditching me, having asked me to join him/them in the bedroom and then not showing up. A great deal of yelling ensued. There was “much wailing and gnashing of teeth” by all parties. It was pretty ugly.

When things calmed down some and we could talk more rationally about the situation, it boils down to this: the two of them had gotten caught up in the heat of the moment and simply forgot that I was waiting for them. I’m glad they felt they could be honest with me, because God knows I’d rather deal with a bitter truth than sweet-tasting lie, but it doesn’t ease my pain at all to know that the two people I love most in the world could so quickly and easily forget me. And that when the moment came to turn toward me or away, they both chose to turn away.

They’re both sorry and say it will never happen again, and I truly believe they mean it. My husband in particular has said a thousand times how much he loves me, that I’m the most important person in the world to him, and that no one could ever take my place in his life. And I want to get past this. I believe in the healing power of forgiveness and I want to believe them. But the very first time the opportunity arose, they forgot me. What they say and what they did do not agree.

I really don’t know what to do now. I feel like a stranger in a strange land. Polyamory can be wonderful in theory, with so many opportunities to give and receive love openly and honestly, and grow as a person, but my practical experience of it is that it sucks. I wish now I’d kept my fantasies to myself, or at least said HELL NO! to my husband when we discussed it.

And the worst of all is that there isn’t anyone I can talk to about it. They’re my two best friends! The two people who hurt me are the two people I confide in! I feel like I’m stuck in a hole and can’t get out.

I hope someone here has some words of wisdom for me. I really need them, and I would so appreciate the help.

Thank you for your time and consideration.

[vandalin]

Greetings and welcome.

Talk to him and tell him how you are feeling. And then slow the train down! It sounds like you went a bit faster then you were ready for. If boundaries were set and not stuck with, then there are things that really do need to be discussed. Openness and trust are very important and what happened to you decreases both of those immensly.

I'm sure others will have better or at least more in depth advice/words of wisdom, but I wish you luck in finding what you are looking for.

[Fidelia]

Greetings and welcome.

Talk to him and tell him how you are feeling. And then slow the train down! It sounds like you went a bit faster then you were ready for. If boundaries were set and not stuck with, then there are things that really do need to be discussed. Openness and trust are very important and what happened to you decreases both of those immensly.

I'm sure others will have better or at least more in depth advice/words of wisdom, but I wish you luck in finding what you are looking for.

Thank you for your kind words, Vandalin. I sincerely appreciate your response, and I wish the same for you and Cajun, whatever Elric decides. We have talked, and talked, and talked some more. We're at the point now where there isn't much left to say. He knows I'm hurting. He understands, I think, the depth of my sorrow even though it's hard for him to look at. He's hurting to know that I'm hurting. Star's hurting over it, too. Everyone wishes the situation was different. We've each owned our parts of what happened, and they've said they can't believe thier actions. I couldn't ask them to be any sorrier than they already are. It just still really hurts, and I haven't yet been able to move past it. And that's not like me.

It never occurred to me for one moment that I would need to establish boundaries to protect my heart from them. Either of them.

[aussielover]

Hi, welcome. I'm sorry I don't have any words of advice, but I wanted to give you a hug *HUGS* I'm really sorry that happened to you. I'm not sure I understand how they could have forgotten about you when the whole point was for you to all be together. :(

[Fidelia]

*hugs back* Thanks, Aussielover. I don't understand it either and neither do Hubby or Star. That's part of the problem too.

And you know . . . I think maybe that's part of why I'm having such a hard time moving past this. How can we know for sure something like this will never happen again when we don't know why it happened in the first place?

[Quath]

Sorry this happened to you, Fidelia. It sounds like you all are trying to handle it well. It is very hard when it is new and there is little social context to go on. We are brought up in a world where the rules of monogamy are pretty much understood by most people. But polyamory is a learn as you go process.

It is good that your husband was honest with you about what he felt. It may be easier to liken it to something not so emotional. For example, my wife asked me to join her by the pool. I told her that I would be down ina minute since I was watching some funny videos on the web. Next thing I know, she is back in the house in her regular clothes. So I asked her when she was going to get her bathing suit on so I could join her outside. It turns out that I had been goofing off for about half an hour and she had finished swimming.

Sometimes we lose track of time. It doesn't mean that the other person is unimportant. It probably means that something new was happening that was overloading the normal thinking process. I think there are lessons for everyone in this. They need to realize how easy it is to loose track of time and need to keep you in mind. You should let them know that you are waiting for them before it becomes an annoyance to you.

A lot of getting polyamory to work is to keep all communication open. Tell Star when you are feeling jealous and encourage her to do the same. Let your husband know he can tell you if he is feeling jealous. of you and Star. Communicate your desires but always be open to negotiations and don't see any rule was a "forever" rule.

If it happens again, just go out there before you get annoyed and join them where they are. Or suggest you are waiting.

i wish you well.

[XYZ123]

Hi and welcome. I don't have any great advice for you on this one but I can understand how it would cause so much pain. I do agree with vandalin that maybe you pushed yourself too fast into this lifestyle without important ground rules. What your husband and Star did was, IMO, just plain wrong and inconsiderate. Talk and talk and talk some more, with both of them, and as a group, and work past this if you can. In the meanwhile, put off any poly bedroom activities until you're more secure on this. Asking someone to open a marriage is a big deal and the person doing the asking needs to be open to working at the partner's pace. Hopefully, your husband will understand this, the way in which his actions led to your feelings, and be willing to slow down.

[Mark1npt]

Let me start off by saying, I'm sorry you had to experience this scene with your two best friends. I understand your wanting to open up or experiment in your marriage. I have some issues with how it was handled and if you don't mind would like to play devil's advocate from the male point of view.

Your husband's quick, enthusiastic response makes me wonder, if he has in the past, always been faithful, if not physically then atleast emotionally with you. I'm sorry, but he seems wayyyyyy tooooo comfortable or familiar with the emotions of it all. It also makes me wonder how familiar your friend Star has been, too. Obviously, there were communication issues for them to forget you in the bedroom. I still don't see how that could have happened. You took it way better than I would have. It sounds like maybe subliminally they didn't want a threesome, but only to be together themselves. Have they been denying this to themselves for years? The sexual tension may have been overwhelming and all consuming, but I just never, ever in a million years would have forgotten my wife. Something is too weird here for my liking.

There's one thing to be poly and one thing to swing. Which is it you want, which does your husband want? Emotions come with poly.......it's a beast to tame. Swinging is just the opposite, a few sweaty hours, then everyone goes their own way til next meeting. No strings, no feelings, no jealousy, nada.

I hope this reply doesn't upset you but gives you another point of reference from which to address your situation with your two best friends. Good luck.

[Fidelia]

Thank you all for your help, support and wisdom through this very tough period. I sincerely appreciate each of you taking the time to help me. Really.

[Fidelia]

.


Sometimes we lose track of time. It doesn't mean that the other person is unimportant.



That's the thing. For that moment in time, I was of so little importance to each of them that I fell off both their radar screens for most of an hour. And it just happened to be a moment when I was completely open and completely vulnerable, and without any frame of reference as to what "should" be happening.

[Mark1npt]

I'm hurting for you Fidelia.......I stand by my previous post. It was pretty callous of both of them.....or pre-meditated.

[Fidelia]

Talk and talk and talk some more, with both of them, and as a group, and work past this if you can.

My husband is all talked out. He's at the point where he's just defensive if the subject is touched on in any way. And honestly, I can't say I blame him. What is there left to be said? They're sorry. They know they hurt me. They know what they did undermined the trust I have for each of them, as well as my sense of security in our relationships. They say it will never happen again. I want to believe them, but my innermost heart is reeling that it ever could happen in the first place. I would never have identified THAT as a possibility, never in a million years.

My husband wants me to just be okay, but I'm not. And I won't pretend I am.

In the meanwhile, put off any poly bedroom activities until you're more secure on this. Poly bedroom activities? You could have said ANY bedroom activities! This experience has thoroughly knocked the wind out of my sails, so to speak. (And in case anyone wonders, I'm not "cutting him off." I think using sex as leverage is manipulative, degrading and short-sighted.)


Asking someone to open a marriage is a big deal and the person doing the asking needs to be open to working at the partner's pace.

Thank you for seeing that, XYZ. It is a big deal, isn't it?

Hopefully, your husband will understand this, the way in which his actions led to your feelings, and be willing to slow down.

He's said from the very beginning that if the situation isn't right for me, it isn't right for him. His exact words were "If Mama ain't happy, ain't NOBODY happy." So for right now, ain't nobody happy. From a poly point of view, we're dead in the water.

I've told them each that I'm still open to the idea of polyamory, and I am. But this situation is completely whack, and I have no idea how to fix it. And I don't think it's my responsibility to fix it, outside my own healing. And to be completely honest, the more days that pass with me bleeding out pyschologically and emotionally, the less open I am to trying again.

Thanks again for your support and wisdom.

[Fidelia]

Let me start off by saying, I'm sorry you had to experience this scene with your two best friends.. Thank you.


I understand your wanting to open up or experiment in your marriage. I didn't want it. I was happily mono. I wanted my beloved to fulfill the desires of his heart.

Your husband's quick, enthusiastic response makes me wonder, if he has in the past, always been faithful, if not physically then atleast emotionally with you. I'm sorry, but he seems wayyyyyy tooooo comfortable or familiar with the emotions of it all. . I'm Hubby's fourth wife. I've heard on the family grapevine that Wife #1 was very adventurous. I've never asked for specifics, as I've never really considered it any of my business. Maybe I should re-think that.

It also makes me wonder how familiar your friend Star has been, too.. Hmmm . . . good point

I still don't see how that could have happened. You took it way better than I would have. You didn't hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth. :eek: :mad: :confused: :(

It sounds like maybe subliminally they didn't want a threesome, but only to be together themselves.. That was immediately apparent to me, and remains a big part of the issue. Thank you for seeing it too.

The sexual tension may have been overwhelming and all consuming, but I just never, ever in a million years would have forgotten my wife. Something is too weird here for my liking. THANK YOU! I am not going insane.

There's one thing to be poly and one thing to swing. Which is it you want, which does your husband want? I was happy mono, and Hubby told me he wanted to "open our relationship and share our joy with others." We talked about secondary husbands and wives. That sounds poly to me.

I hope this reply doesn't upset you but gives you another point of reference from which to address your situation with your two best friends. On the contrary, Mark. Thank you ,thank you, thank you you for your honest assessment and valuable insights.I sincerely appreciate your sharing them with me.

Good luck. Thanks, Brother, I need all I can get!

[Fidelia]

I'm hurting for you Fidelia.......I stand by my previous post. It was pretty callous of both of them.....or pre-meditated.

Thank you, Mark. Thank you. You've given me a lot to think about, and some hard questions to consider. It looks like this may get worse before it gets better . . . :(

and who knows, there could even be another unicorn roaming around loose before long! :cool:

Thanks again, all of you, for helping me sort this out, and for your support and wisdom.

[Mark1npt]

Whew! I'm glad you took my reply well....I was hoping not to come off as some know it all.....

My worrisome side is concerned with you being the "4th wife".....obviously this guy has issues...... or......... he's always been poly in a mono society, lol.

I live in a town populated by wealthy guys who've averaged 4-5 wives. I don't want to appear critical of my fellow menfolk but somehow, I don't think they're all poly!

[Fidelia]

No worries, Mark. If I didn't really want to know what you (and everyone)thought, I wouldn't have asked. I need some outside perspectives and input to help me see these events clearly, and I sincerely appreciate the help.

I've never thought much one way or another about being #4, as long as I was the Fourth and Final, and I am the currently the Undisputed World Record Holder. As I've often stated (in a deep movie-announcer voice),"Many have tried. All have failed. Save ONE . . ."

And yeah, it's becoming increasingly clear to me that Hubby has issues, but then, who doesn't? I know if I don't slay the dragons that have sprung up in my heart and my head because of this, the dragons are going to eat me alive. And lemme tell ya, BrotherMan, I've been crazy and I've been sane; sane is less exciting but it beats crazy comin' and goin'.

Thanks again.

[Mark1npt]

Too funny, Fidelia!......Yes, sane works a lot better for me too.....the poly life can strain anyone's sanity, though. Glad to hear you're the current record holder. You would think at some point, he'd fatigue and quit looking for or dreaming about maybe a #5! Continued good luck in that endeavor!

[XYZ123]

He's "all talked out and defensive"? Hmmm.... Sorry hun, but HE did this and HE needs to listen to EVERYTHING you have to say WHENEVER you have to say it if he wants to fix it. He asked to open the marriage. He forgot you as soon as you did. To make it worse, so did your best friend. Of course you're hurt! My hubby and I are no longer even in a poly relationship (and unless the right woman comes along may never be again) and we still, over a year later, rehash things and reassure eachother. This way, should it happen again, everything is on the table and we know how to continue communication. A huge amount of compassion and honesty and willingness to be open, supportive, and reassuring is needed for a poly lifestyle to work without jealousy, anger, and resentment. And even in the best of situations these emotions will still sometimes surface and need to be discussed and soothed.
You're not crazy and you're not wrong for feeling as you do. I hope he sees that. Just approach him in a way that leads to mutual communication and not finger pointing and blame if that's the problem. "I feel" rather than "You did". I wish you the best of luck. *HUGS*

[redpepper]

So at first I was right there ready to give this husband of yours a blast of shit but as everyone seems to have covered the spectrum of things to give him shit for I have a question.

Why did you wait 45 mins before seeing what was going on? What did you think was going on?

If it were me I would of been in there in under a minute saying, "hey there get your sexy asses in this bedroom!" not waiting for them to get on it.

I am willing to be a bit more patient than others it seems. I think that was way to long to wait to see what was going on. I think you have yourself to blame for that.

Time stands still for me when I have sex. If things are moving along passionately I have no idea the time until I come up for air. If this was a first time after a long wait to broach the topic I can totally see them getting caught up in it.

I understand you would be hurting, don't get me wrong. That sucked big time! Don't go over board though. There might be hope yet. Time and more talking will help. Damn right they both need to sit and listen as you work through your anger though. But don't forget to tell them that is all it is. Working through it to see where you end up.

[Fidelia]

Thank you, XYZ and Redpepper, for taking time to consider my situation and respond.

He's "all talked out and defensive"? Hmmm.... Sorry hun, but HE did this and HE needs to listen to EVERYTHING you have to say WHENEVER you have to say it if he wants to fix it. Yeah, that’s what I think too, but the thing is what it is. We haven't even skirted around the issue for days now. It's the elephant in the house. Hubby's been bending over backward to please me and demonstrate his love in a thousand little ways, but he won't address the elephant. Perhaps given time and some space, he will be ready. But there's no point in pushing right now, unless I just want to fight. And I don't. And Star and I have had some long, long, talks. She and I are pretty clear, and are more or less okay, if shaky still in some areas.

A huge amount of compassion and honesty and willingness to be open, supportive, and reassuring is needed for a poly lifestyle to work without jealousy, anger, and resentment. Yeah! That's what I hear, and those are some of the things I find appealing about poly. Sadly, I’m beginning to conclude that Hubby isn’t ready for the level of communication and attention poly relationships require.


Just approach him in a way that leads to mutual communication and not finger pointing and blame if that's the problem. "I feel" rather than "You did". I'm trying. Sometimes it hard, but I'm trying. One good thing about living with the elephant is that right now I have all this time to really think about what I want to say when/if Hubby does decide to address it.


I wish you the best of luck. *HUGS* *HUGS back* Thanks, XYZ.

[Fidelia]

Why did you wait 45 mins before seeing what was going on? I don’t really have much of an answer for that question, except that I was lost in my own head. I remember listening to my heart pound for a very long time. I guess I entered that entered that state where time fades. As I wrote in the OP, this is all new to me, and to a very large extent I feel like a stranger in a strange land (and not in a cool Heinlein martian way. This I do not grok.)


What did you think was going on? I had no idea whatsoever. That’s why I went to find out.


I think you have yourself to blame for that. You are certainly right about that. I agree.

If this was a first time after a long wait to broach the topic I can totally see them getting caught up in it. I can totally see it too. It is completely understandable. Understanding it does not help the wound heal.

Damn right they both need to sit and listen as you work through your anger though. Funny thing: I'm not really all that angry. I feel hurt, insecure, and abandoned, mostly. Some anger now and then, but not much.

But don't forget to tell them that is all it is. Working through it to see where you end up. Right now he and I are stuck in the elephant house. There's no telling where we'll end up, but for the time being at least that's where we are.

Once again, everyone, please accept my sincere thanks to each of you who’ve taken the time to consider my situation and respond. Your insights and questions are really helping me get a handle on this. Also, thanks to each of you who read this thread and took a moment to send me a good vibe, It’s working. Things are coming clearer at last. Thank you all.

I have decided to find a poly-friendly counselor and do the work necessary to learn the lesson being offered here so that I can heal and move on. (And I might as well do it now while I still have coverage for it.) If Hubby and Star decide at some point they wants to revisit these issues, I’ll try to be ready to meet them where they are. But I’m not waiting for them. I’m going to find the straightest line between the problem and the solution and I am going to get from here to there, and I know I’ll be stronger and better and wiser for having made the trip. Thank you all for the encouragement and support. I particularly liked the hugs. Really, thanks.

[XYZ123]

Good luck with the counseling. Will hubby and Star come with? Maybe it will be a more evenly grounded setting to discuss these issues? Sometimes having a "referee" for all the emotional parties can be a big help.

[redpepper]

you sound strong Fidelia. Good for you taking the bull by the horns!

I was wondering to if they would agree to go with you to counseling?

Hugs to you, keep at it, you're doing great. Let us know what happens.... ?

[Fidelia]

Star lives too far away for counseling to be a viable option except maybe once in a while, and Hubby seems to be making himself comfortable in the elephant house. So for now at least, it looks like individual counseling for me. And that’s okay. Of course I’d rather work it through with him/them, but if he won’t, he won’t. And I’m certainly not going to further damage our marriage by pushing him. I already know where that course of action leads He’s one of those people with will NOT be pushed, but can often be lead. So I’m going to move forward, and concentrate on my healing. Hopefully he’ll see me making progress and at some point decide to deal with the elephant. But that’s his choice to make.

you sound strong Fidelia. Good for you taking the bull by the horns!I am strong. I know I’ll get past this. This is not my first rodeo, after all. My heart’s been broken before, plenty of times, and it always heals stronger in the mended places. This is a bad break, to be sure, and made worse by the “who did what to who,” and even worse by the isolation of not having my nearest and dearest to help me deal with it. I really did feel like there wasn’t anyone in the world I could open up to about it.

But you guys here at this forum have helped me so much, with your insights and ideas, your solid advice, and most of all just your support. I really cannot thank you enough for your help. I am filled with gratitude for the blessings you all have given me.

:) Okay, everybody c’mere for a big group hug. Come on. . . . :) *BIG BIG warm loving grateful HUGS*

[Rarechild]

Urrrmph..aaaaahh. :)

You go Fidelia. I am so glad you have found the beginnings of peace with your situation. I am impressed by your attitude and by you taking charge of your own state of mind.

[Fidelia]

NOBODY else wants a group hug??

Okay, fine . . . Rarechild and I will enjoy this awesome poly-hug enough for all the group . . .

Mmmmm . . .mmm. . .

[MonoVCPHG]

Whoooaaaa...no hugging for me unless it's Redpepper :D

[Mark1npt]

Love the cracker!!!!!!

[redpepper]

oh! I do! I do! ahhhhhhh, love a big 'ol huggy.... tee hee. makes me all soft and mushy *:)*

thanks Fidelia :o :D

[XYZ123]

*hugs*

[DestinyWaits]

Urrrmph..aaaaahh. :)

You go Fidelia. I am so glad you have found the beginnings of peace with your situation. I am impressed by your attitude and by you taking charge of your own state of mind.


I agree with Rarechild on this one!! I'm proud of you.

I read the post but didn't know how to respond because this is one issue the hubby and I have never had to deal with because we both know that to do something like this could and would probably destroy the relationship we have fought so hard to establish with each other and the love we say we have for each other is exactly the love we do have for each other so to hurt the other is to hurt ourselves.

I want to offer my hugs too!!!!! :D You are a stronger woman than you think.

[Timoval]

Is there a comparison?

I dipped a toe into the swinging scene when I had gained my freedom, the sexual side of polyamory does not seem that different. People express a desire to fulfill a fantasy, a husbands friend, the friend of the wife. Many of us have these thoughts and fantasies. It is my belief that as a race we are not naturally monogamous.

Are we using Polyamory as a way to legitimise the fact that we would like multiple partners with the approval and participation of our spouses?

Or is it just a label for a sexual adventure?

[MonoVCPHG]

Are we using Polyamory as a way to legitimise the fact that we would like multiple partners with the approval and participation of our spouses?

Or is it just a label for a sexual adventure?

I honestly think it is used both ways. This is not my opinion; this is what I see first hand in the poly community.

I used to judge and get caught up in a form of "disapproval" because I personally wouldn't be healthy in a "sexual adventure" approach. The key is that I would not be healthy; others can be and may be.

Now that I have come to the realization that other people's relationships are not mine I am much more open to the various approaches to poly for what they are.

That does not mean I like to see the term abused by those who are dishonest in what they are looking for or use it to manipulate a partner. It just means if everyone is honest about what they want from relationships then I am fine with it.

[redpepper]

The sexual side of poly is worlds different than swinging (why does this keep coming up... I feel like I repeat myself over and over... It makes me stronger everytime in my convictions)!

It is like the difference between drinking a really good latte or an intant coffee (to those in Britain, I realize this analogy might be off as I know you generally drink instant coffee).
There is nothing like sex with connection, love and the lust that comes from needing and wanting to be close to someones soul, not just their interesting body.

Swinging, as I have said before, is akin to masterbating in someone elses body. Having poly relationships with others above and beyond your primary partner has the potential to be far deeper and as spiritual bonding as a primary relationship.

I am finding that poly has changed me in ways I am not able to articulate yet. Its coming and I will certainly write when I know, but my understanding of myself and who I am in the world has changed. I am surrounded by love and support in ways I never have need before. Not only that it has changed how I interact with my husband.

No my friend, it is very different than a flash in the pan swinging night or going to meet someone with the intention of having sex with them without the connection.

[Fidelia]

Is there a comparison?

Are we using Polyamory as a way to legitimise the fact that we would like multiple partners with the approval and participation of our spouses?

Or is it just a label for a sexual adventure?

I am not widely experienced in polyamory (see the OP) and I have no experience whatsoever in swinging, but I do know there is a clear distinction. Polyamory involves full, close adult relationships among the partners, whereas swinging involves consensual extra-marital or non-marital sex among the participants with little or other relationship required or desired.

[Fidelia]

Or there are these definitions from the Polyamory Language Page at http://www.polyamorysociety.org:

Polyamory n : is the nonpossessive, honest, responsible and ethical philosophy and practice of loving multiple people simultaneously. Polyamory emphasizes consciously choosing how many partners one wishes to be involved with rather than accepting social norms which dictate loving only one person at a time. Polyamory is an umbrella term which integrates traditional multipartner relationship terms with more evolved egalitarian terms. Polyamory embraces sexual equality and all sexual orientations towards an expanded circle of spousal intimacy and love. Polyamory is from the root words Poly meaning many and Amour meaning love hence "many loves" or Polyamory

Swinging vb : Recreational sexual activity, also called "sport sex" where partner's or participant's agree to have casual sex with each other's. There is usually no emotional involvement. A form of monogamy in which usually two primary partners agree to have casual sex with other couples or singles

[Fidelia]

It’s been a while, and I don’t want anyone here to think I’ve just stayed “stuck” all this time, so here’s an update on the situation on the ground at my house.

There is no poly-friendly counselor available where I live. I could see an individual counselor, but I really want to deal with this in a way that opens my heart to more love, more openness, more possibilities, and mental health professionals are just not trained, traditionally, to think in polyamorous terms. So I’ve decided to study up on the matter myself, and apply what I already know and the skills I already have, and see if I can’t find my way through this maze. If I can– great! If I can’t . . . well, there are always those nice young men in their clean white coats who can come and take me away, ha ha, hee hee, ho ho . . .

The elephant is still living in our house. It pretty much follows Hubby from room to room, occasionally waving flags and blowing whistles, but Hubby refuses to have a look. Which gives me plenty of time to think and study.

Since the last time I wrote, my beloved, precious Hubby has more or less fallen all over himself to demonstrate how much he loves me. While I was away from home (taking care of some stuff for his mom) he sent me 2 dozen red roses, then the next week he sent me a huge package of love notes I’ve saved over the years. Called me every day, five or six times a day. Now that I’m home, he brings me coffee in bed, which he knows I love. He does a million little things to tell me he loves me, that I am important to him, that he cares. I am convinced. He loves me. Good thing, too, because I’m over the moon about him. He is the love of my life and I know I am his.

But he will not talk about what happened.

I, on the other hand, have not been standing still. I’ve been studying up, thinking hard about a lot of things, and taking a hard look at the baggage in my closets. And I’ve reached a few conclusions.

I’m not ready to trust Star with my heart on that level. I still love her, of course, she’s still my bff and I would trust her on many, many levels, but not that one. I’ve seen her behave like a bull in a china closet with other people’s hearts, and I’m not ready to hand her mine again. Maybe someday, but not now. I may be once bitten/twice shy, but there it is.

I’ve also come to the conclusion that Hubby’s not ready to go poly. Specifically, he’s not ready for the level of communication, care and ongoing relational involvement that poly requires.

Also, he can’t pay sufficient attention to me when other people are involved, polyamorous or not. Let me give you one example and I think you’ll see what I mean. We had some friends over to swim in our new pool, a guy and a girl. Good music, good friends, nice day. Everyone’s having a good time, etc. Hubby’s going into the house and asks if he can get anyone anything. Joe wants a beer, Jill wants water and I’ll have a diet coke, thanks. He comes back with the beer and the water, but forgot the coke. No biggie. It’s not that important; I let it slide. A while later, Hubby’s going in again, and wants to know who wants what. Joe will take another beer, thanks. Jill wonders if there’re any chips and salsa left. And I’d like a coke, thanks. At that moment, he said, “Oh yeah! Your coke!” The beer and the chips and salsa made it outside. No coke, though. I don’t want to make a big deal, but I’m thirsty. And I know he’s not going to remember the coke. So I get out of the pool and go in. When Hubby sees me coming out of the house with the Coke, at that moment he remembers it, and he gets all bent out of shape. I know he’s ticked with himself for forgetting it twice, but it’s there’s no point in getting worked up about it. And there’s certainly no point in sniping at me about it! Please! Either do it or don’t, but don’t say one thing and do another! I hate that!

(Which of course, that just plays into the issues opened up in the OP, and here we go . . . let the wailing and gnashing of teeth begin.)

This is just one recent example. When we’re alone, I am the queen of his world, his true love, his heart’s desire. My wish is his command. When we’re with other people . . not so much. And I really don’t think it would bother me much, except that it’s pretty consistent behavior and it shows that I just fall off his radar screen. In terms of just our dyad, I can deal with it. It’s an irritant, but ultimately it’s just one thing and nobody bats 1.000. God knows I have plenty of flaws he has to deal with. But do I want to introduce the complications and emotions that come with romance, relationships and NRE? Thanks, I’ll pass. In fact, to quote Whitney Houston, “HELL to the NO!”

This is one of the issues we will have to address if we’re going to continue moving toward a poly life. I am a strong Alpha female; there’s no way on God’s green earth I could tolerate being overlooked that way in favor of another love interest. Period, end of story. And of course there’re the issues brought up in the OP still to be dealt with. None of which we are talking about.

So that’s where we are now. I feel like I’ve been learning and growing all this time, thanks to some serious research, study, and soul-searching, and also thanks in no small part to all you wonderful, wise, witty people here at the forum.

So when he’s ready to talk about the elephant, I’m ready. But if a poly life is what he really wants, someday he’s going to have to deal with the elephant.

[XYZ123]

Wow. Good for you. Hubby does seem sorry with all the attention and gestures. But yes, he does need to talk if that is what you need for this to be worked out. I find some people are better able to do than to talk, but if talking is needed talking it must be.

It's so weird the way he can't focus on you when others are around. Is he socially anxious? Maybe you don't actually fall off the radar but he's so nervous about pleasing the other, less familiar people that he blanks on the one he's most comfortable with. He knows you love him so it subconsciously becomes all about making a likable impression on others? Yikes. I just don't know.

[redpepper]

Good for you Filelia! I'm so glad you have made some decisions and are continuing to pick away at budging that elephant out of there. I wonder if this has brought up issues from his past marriages around infidelity and that is why he is having a hard time looking at the thing. Perhaps it is a bigger fear than was first realized. I agree, no poly until that elephant is gone.

Any word from your friend?

[kinkyshoes]

Yeah I'm interested about what happened to Star and this issue. I'd be sad if your friendship has suffered over this. I'm not excusing your husband for what he did but it does sound like he's gone all out to re-affirm his love and care for you which is nice - if he was truly ignoring the issue he wouldn't have done that and shrugged his shoulders and told you to get over it already.
It's so weird the way he can't focus on you when others are around. Is he socially anxious? Maybe you don't actually fall off the radar but he's so nervous about pleasing the other, less familiar people that he blanks on the one he's most comfortable with. He knows you love him so it subconsciously becomes all about making a likable impression on others? Yikes. I just don't know.
My partner has been guilty of this before. She is someone who is anxious around what other people think of her a lot, but when it hits the fan she roars to my defense or side. She is someone who never had a truly secure relationship with a partner before and she knows I'm always with her 100% but of course doesn't have that feeling about other people, so she does tend to try and please them rather than me in some settings. I have learned that this is really about her insecurity around others rather than me so I don't take it personally.

[Karelia]

You are very strong... and that's a good thing. I agree that for now, at the very least, poly needs to wait.

If he has issues with not addressing your needs when there are friends around, I am sure it would be a major challenge for him to address the needs of two women he was romantically and sexually involved with, so I would say not getting into that situation is the best solution.

I am so sorry for what you had to go through... I know what it is like to feel like you have things to work through and you can't talk to the two people closest to you, but nothing I've had to work through has been half as major as what you've been dealing with - it doesn't compare.

I admire your courage, honesty and strength!

((hugs))

~Kari

[Fidelia]

Star and I haven't had any more serious poly or relationship conversations since I guess about two weeks after the incident that led to the OP. Partly because there isn't anything new to say, what with the elephant in the house, but mostly because she's got bigger fish to fry. She got hurt at work and has been dealing with the various treatment options, doing the physical therapy, etc. and is now looking at surgery and a long recovery. I could revisit the subject any time, I guess, but right now she needs a girl friend WAAAY more than she needs a girlfriend.

She's stayed with us for a couple of weekends since I got home, and there's no added tension, or at least very very little. She and I are back to being best of friends, although I will admit to keeping a watchful eye out, especially the first visit, to see if she and Hubby were saying one thing and doing another. (They were not.)

If she has to have surgery, she's going to stay with us while she recovers, which could be three months or so. She may not want to revisit what happened that night for fear I wouldn't let her stay here. I like to think I'm enlightened enough as a person that I wouldn't turn her out, but who can say, really, what s/he will do when her/his heart is breaking?

Besides, I've already told her (weeks ago) that I'm not willing to risk getting my heart broken again that way, and that I'm going to do whatever it takes to make sure my heart is protected and safe. I don't see any reason at this point to tell her that I'm not willing to trust her, specifically, with my heart again. (And to be completely truthful, if it were not for the long history of love, loyalty and trust between Hubby and I, I couldn't have trusted him with my heart either. But I've loved him for so long, and trusted him with everything in my life for so many years, that not trusting him is not an option. Loving him and trusting him comes as easily to me, and is as necessary to me, as breathing, even if sometimes it hurts.)

Okay, end of tangent. Back to the main point: I was very clear with both of them in the days immediately after, that while I'm still open to the idea of polyamory, they screwed the triad up and it's up to them to fix it. I'm responsible for my own healing, and I'm doing the work to make that happen. If they want to heal our triad, that's up to them. And since neither of them has taken any action toward healing it, I'd say at this point (almost 2 months later) the triad is dead. She has more pressing issues to deal with, and Hubby seems to be content living with the elephant.

So that's where things stand. As friends, Star and I are solid, and I will gladly stand by her through this rough patch, and the ones to come, as I always have. But she doesn't get break my heart again. That's my boundary, and now we know where it is.

[redpepper]

Good for you Fidelia. You sound strong and firm in your convictions and I'm sure they rely on that as they know your boundaries fair and square. Your hard work has paid off!

Glad things are getting back on track. :)