Outdoor Recreation

[River]

Hiking, backpacking, skiing, camping, boating, rafting, picnics, ...etc.

===============

My partner, Kevin, & I will be going backpacking in the New Mexico wilderness on Friday for three nights! We've done a lot of hiking and "car-camping" together over our nearly 13 years together, but this will be our first backpacking trip, as it took us a while to get all of the proper equipment.... Stuf's expensive -- for the good gear.

We're gonna make our first backpacking trip together real easy! The trail we're taking is only 6 miles, so it will mostly be about hanging out in the wilderness rather than going in far. It makes sense to go easy since neither of us have backpacked since our youth. We need to ease into it. We're in pretty decent shape for "older" guys, but there are risks and our wilderness skills and packing sensibilities are in need of gradual improvement after years of neglect.

The equipment we acquired will make life much easier! We got the perfect space age backpaking cooking equipment, and a really cool lightweight and compact hand crank operated water filter device. I've never used one of those, and always packed all the water needed -- so this will save a lot of weight, so long as we plan our trips where good water is to be found. (Filters are good to prevent microbial diseases!) And now we both have really fine internal frame packs....

Any backpackers in here?

[NeonKaos]

Any backpackers in here?

Not me, but my husband is trying to get in shape to do the kind of thing you just described. He is getting the gear ready and "practicing" with it when we go camping in our trailer.

[River]

Whatever you do, Don't Tell Him That Made Me Giggle!:D

There is a hierarchy in the Serious Business of Outdoorsmanship (... and Outdoorwoman [uh]... manship...).

At the top of the hierarchy of Serious Camping (no gay pun intended) are Backpackers, for obvious reasons.

Middleway, are the "car campers," who "pack" everything into the "wilderness" in their cars, but at least "rough it" by sleeping in tents.

At the very bottom of the hierarchy, are those who camp in trailers, which they pull behind their cars or trucks. They are at the bottom for obvious reasons.:
(a) They pee indoors! (b) they poop indoors (c) they often even cook indoors (d) they have eee-lec-tricity! (e) they may even blow dry their hair, or, worse (f) watch television in there!:p

[NeonKaos]

Um, River honey - it's a TearDrop trailer; NOT an RV.

Google is your friend. I'll wait.


Everything you said in that last paragraph is untrue.

Talk about ASSUMPTIONS.

I guess you could color me offended.

[River]

Aha! So there are at least Four Levels of our Esteemed and Eternal Hierarchy!

(a) backpackers -- the oh-so-superior ones.

(b) car campers who sleep in tents.

(c) teary-eyed boy-men with their tender wives in TearDrop trailers.

(d) the unmentionables.

[NeonKaos]

Whatever... Maybe we should ask Barry for some insight about this.

Don't know where you got your criteria for (c).

[River]

I guess you could color me offended.

I thought my spoofy humor was obvious enough! ... Color me, trying to be funny!

[NeonKaos]

I was trying to be funny too and I seem to have succeeded miserably.

[River]

Oooops!

Funny, Kevin & I were just discussing this thread... when it dawned on me, slowly, that I may have been spoofed in reverse! Me pulling your chain and you pulling mine about it. Sorry... slow learner here. Perhaps because I'm unleashing my silly side moreso than ever in this forum, and ... well, I tend to come off pretty serious most days.

[River]

http://tinyhouseblog.com/wp-content/uploads/2008/11/tab_trailer.jpg

Well... Okay....:D

[NeonKaos]

That's a T@B, which is the MOST like an RV of all teardrops (and very expensive). "Little Guy" is more like it, that's another manufactured brand. Ours is home-built, not by us, we bought it on eBay. There is a whole sub-culture of teardrop enthusiasts, and quite a few people have more than one. We belong to another forum dedicated especially to camping in this type of trailer and other small travel trailers (shastas, airstreams, scotties, etc.). Ours is about 5'x10'x4'high (inside) and is very little more than a bed on wheels. I like being able to keep everything I need in there. A whole other set of pillows, toiletries, and some books (field guides and shit), and YES, a DVD player for like when it rains or so that I can watch Top Chef re-runs while I am getting ready to grill things (but outside, not inside).

I am a gear-head but I am not ashamed about it.

[River]

I am a gear-head but I am not ashamed about it.

No need to be, honey! I was only kiddin' ya! -- about the "hierarchy"....:D

I'm WAY (fanatically, almost) "green," so I cainst stands any of them very LARGE RV contraptions that get four miles to the gallon. That's all.

Here's the cooking gearhead thingy Kevin & I bought recently!:

http://www.altrec.com/msr/reactor-stove-system-backpacking-stove?sku_id=240577&cm_mmc=Mercent-_-Froogle-_-MSR-_-30304-240577&mr:trackingCode=1C10689F-3E19-DE11-9BD3-0019B9C2BEFD&mr:referralID=NA

It fits under a tall hat!

[NeonKaos]

I think Steve has one like that. I love Altrec because they have an unlimited return policy. I ordered neoprene wet-suits that turned out to be too small, but i kept them for a year hoping I might lose some weight, and I didn't lose the weight so I returned them. And they paid for the return shipping too.

Edit: that is not the stove he has. His is way less expensive.

[River]

Edit: that is not the stove he has. His is way less expensive.

Yeah, that thing was WAY EXPENSIVE! We justified it on the grounds that it is (a) Extra Super Duper Way Cool and that (b) we only live once, and (c) our average age is smack dab in the middle of 43 (me) and 54 (himself). So there won't be time enough for a second.:mad:

[NeonKaos]

So anyway, by "practicing" I meant that he is practicing short hikes with his backpack and gear, and also experimenting with different food combinations to take with him.

I am not into hardcore survival camping and I probably would have a small Class B motorhome if I could afford it. The reason for that is because I find it appealing to be able to drive out into the middle of nowhere and have everything you need. If I had the choice between that and a hotel, all other things being equal, I'd still pick the trailer or motorhome because everything would be MINE; I wouldn't have to wonder if the maid really did change the sheets or just said "They look clean enough to me" and made the bed.

My mother always looked down on people who had RV's because even though she didn't like camping, she said that if you aren't going to "rough it" (i.e. use a tent), you might as well rent a motel room. I don't buy into this mentality. Although I don't like staying in those "KOA-style" RV-parks, I do like staying at state parks, which do not have electricity at the sites by the way, or clothing-optional places, which is not camping at all, but is cheaper than renting a room (and that's primarily why we started with a tent; the trailer came a few years after).

[River]

So anyway, by "practicing" I meant that he is practicing short hikes with his backpack and gear, and also experimenting with different food combinations to take with him.

That's not a bad idea at all.

He probably knows this, but backpacking alone, or only with other less experienced folks, is strongly discouraged. Especially alone! If you're alone AND relatively inexperienced, you can get into some serious trouble. Backpacking with a partner is always strongly recommended, because if you do run into trouble ... at least the other guy or gal can hike out and bring help. First trips should be short, so "civilization" isn't too far out of reach, if needed. The worst case scenario is for a newbie to pack too far into the wilderness alone!

And a backpacking team (or soloist, for the advanced) should ALWAYS report where they're headed and how long they plan to be out -- to at least one, preferably two folks who are are back in "civilization". This way, if they are very late returning a rescue team can be sent in to find them. Which could save their lives.

I am not into hardcore survival camping

Nor am I. Nor are most backpackers. If you have acquired basic knowledge of backpacking and basic wilderness survival skills (most of which will never be needed!), backpacking isn't at all about "surviving," its mainly about being able to get into actual wilderness areas, away from roads, cars, trucks.... Also, many fantastic hiking destinations, such as mountain lakes, can't be reached any other way, since they're far from roads. Other times, you can get to your destination in a day hike, but have to immediatly return or you'll have to hike back in the dark -- which can result in serious injury or worse.

There's a mountain lake near where I live that I've not yet seen, as it's just too many miles a hike to get to -- and with no roads in. We could hike it in a day. Kevin did that with a friend. But they couldn't stay and ENJOY the lake destination, or they would have been stranded in the dark. When I go to see that lake, I can set up my tent and camp gear and then RELAX and enjoy the lake -- and watch the sun rise over the lake in the morning, with a nice cup of hot tea and some breakfast!

Backpacking is a perfectly safe activity, and not a survival game. But it's only safe when you have skills appropriate to the task at hand, and proper equipment. Those skills and equipment needs vary depending on how long you'll be out, how far you're going, where you're headed, and so forth. Backpacking is best learned from others with plenty of experience, whether via books or via heading into the wilderness with them--, after they've checked your gear.

Finally, a lot of really fine gear is now available which makes packs much lighter and easier to carry over long distances. Packs are now designed to fit and work with the body as never before. Special water filters allow well planned trips without need of carrying in water, except perhaps a liter. One doesn't have to be an athelete to head into the wilderness, far from roads and cars -- and stay the night, comfortably.

[NeonKaos]

I said the thing about "hardcore survival camping" because we do have a friend who is into that. Meaning, absolute MINIMUM gear, and not necessarily going FAR into the wilderness, but back to the basics when it comes to shelter, starting fires, and finding food and water.

This friend of ours also thinks that winter camping is just grooovy. I'll just have to take his word about that.

[River]

I respect those who are capable of "extreme" wilderness survival, and who enjoy that sort of thing, but that's not what it's all about for me. (Though those skills may come in handy one day!)

I'm all about comfort, security, safety... and just having as good a time as possible without requiring more than I can carry in on my back, in relative ease and comfort. So, obviously, I don't bring a lot of luxury items I can do without. But I do bring some!

Heck, if it came down to survival, I'd not be using that fancy new cooking system I showed you. I'd bring matches, or maybe a flint and steel, or -- on the more extreme end, just a knife to make a bow-drill firemaking device.
[http://www.natureskills.com/bow_drill_fire_making.html] (I keep meaning to see if I could pull that off, in case the need ever arises!)

Next to bare-bones wilderness survival, per se, having a well equipped pack is the lap of luxury!

[River]

Just arriving in from my first backpacking trip in more than twenty years, and also my first such trip with Kevin, my partner in crime. Kevin and I have done lots of hikes and "car camping" (driving the gear in) over our thirteen years, but this was our first carrying it on our backs.

I'll tell you all about the trip after I've showered, had my scheduled massage, eaten, and slept. (!)

[vandalin]

Welcome back, can't wait to hear about your trip.

[River]

So... I had just begun to tell the story....

... and a finger touched a wrong button on the laptop ... and ... gone! a "sign" that too many details aren't called for.

Hummingbird hovering inches from my nose!

Lush green, even ferns (!) ... and a ground squirrel eating almonds from my finger tips... except I pulled back, uncertain that she'd not bite them. I doubt that she would, but we are (she and I) almost new to all of this.

Hummingbird ... is she in or out of the tent? I am uncertain. But it turns out to have been a shadow of hummingbird on tent wall(!).

Lush, green... stream flowing... water filtering (!) testing new equipment -- all of us virgin at parts of this.

Bears! Are they the ones snapping twigs outside in the coal dark Chupacabra night?!?

Ears, alive to every dream of terror! Blowing my cover as the wilderness wise one, the former wildland firefigher!?!

Partner of thirteen years -- divided from me by sleeping bags that don't zip together.

Partners of thirteen years, holding hands.

[vandalin]

Well, I don't know what you had written before, but this was very nicely written and beautiful to read. :)

[foxflame88]

Invest in zip-together sleeping bags for the next excursion. ;)

[Catfish]

Yes!

I love backpacking. I live in Michigan and there's an abundance of beautiful places to hike and camp. The space age water pump is all that my arsenal is missing. My first real backpacking trip was to Isle Royal in Lake Superior, Michigan's only national park. Breathtaking. There's nothing like being miles away from civilization and surrounded by natural beauty.

The greatest lesson I've learned from backpacking is that the harder the journey is, the sweeter the destination becomes.

Great. Now I have to plan a trip. Thanks. ;)

[redsirenn]

I do research there... off for another wonderful trip.
It will involve a bit of bushwhacking.... So Excited!

I am bringing Ouroboros with me - he will be my research "assistant" :)

Have a great weekend everyone!

[River]

What sort of research do you do / are you doing, Red?

''''

Catfish,

Glad I could be inspirational!

'''''''''

Everyone,

I don't think I mentioned previously that I FORGOT THE SPOONS! on that backpacking trip Kevin & I took. I'm so embarrassed! Yes, there were no forks, either. We tried whittling something to eat our dinner with, but it didn't work out so well... especially with night creeping in soon. Hard to whittle a good spoon in less than half a day.

Before we left we sat down and discussed the matter of what may have been forgotten. Our packing was too hurried, however, as I had engaged in too much preparedness procrastionation. We went over broad catagories... food, shelter, toiletries, water, etc., first aid, etc. But it was too hurried. Next time I'll have a proper list prepared!

The good part of it is that I've come to appreciate spoons like you cannot believe! What an elegant thing a spoon is!

Luckily, the car wasn't too far off. (the shame!, driving for spoons & forks!--the next morning) We had ourselves a wimpy first backpacking trip together (and first in decades), and that's OKAY. Next time will be more daring and adventurous ... and VERY soon. Either next weekend of the following one.

[Catfish]

I just stumbles across this event.

polycamp (http://www.polycamp.net/)

Maybe next year.

[River]

Thanks for the heads-up on that, Fish. I'd love to participate in something like that closer to where I live in New Mexico / Southwest. It'd have to be something REALLY special to take me that far from home.

[AutumnalTone]

Had a regional orphan Burn (for those Burners not going to Burning Man) this past weekend. My son failed to pack the tent poles so I was looking at having no tent (somebody else picked them up for me as they headed out to the burn), then the cot died under me Friday night. Was still a great burn. The effigy was of Domo and he burned spectacularly.

Ya might want to check out your local Burner scenes. Lots of poly folk involved. Burner culture is highly inclusive, so you'll find straight folk, bi folk, gay folk, trans folk, ravers, rockers, kinky folk, vanilla folk, old folk, young folk..though we're a bit short on Christian and Muslim fundamentalists (and I just don't understand why! ;-D).

[redsirenn]

... I study rare plants and the impact climate change will have on them. I am working on developing better computer models to predict where species will go as a result of climate change.

fun fun!

[River]

Redsirenn,

It's interesting that climate zones are shifting so fast that we should probably expect major disruption of forest ecosystems -- probably often as massive die-offs of forest trees. Trees can't lift up their roots (as legs) and walk North or to higher elevations. Smaller plants, of course, can often migrate readily. But some animals are going to have a tough time migrating for various reasons, many related to human artifice such as highways.

Are you a botanist?

[redsirenn]

J -
Yes I am a botanist.
It is true that the climate is changing so rapidly that living things will have a hard time to adjust. The thing is, that the composition of our landscapes has been different in the past as well - the difference is the rate of change. That is, the climate is shifting and changing so fast, that it may happen too quickly for things to evolve into new niches and to develop new interactions with other organisms... not to mention the changing phenology of many living things. And, like you said how we have altered the landscape with impermeable boundaries such as roads, development, etc.

Carbon dioxide is responsible for most of the warming of the atmosphere, and we cannot remove what has already been deposited into it. We can, however, stop putting more in, and prevent truly disastrous changes from happening to future generations of humanity. This is the gist of the concept of living sustainably - not wasting, using what you need to live, not living to use. You know, the whole "reduce, reuse, recycle"... and then purchase recycled products to complete the cycle..

[River]

This is the gist of the concept of living sustainably - not wasting, using what you need to live, not living to use. You know, the whole "reduce, reuse, recycle"... and then purchase recycled products to complete the cycle..

I'm a serious amateur (soon to be professional) human ecologist and ecological designer, and am writing a book addressing the need for government land use regulation (and building code) changes in order to facilitate the creation or retrofitting of sustainable communities (e.g., ecovillages, etc.), so the whole sustainability question is core in my life.

My book, hopefully, will be useful to potential sustainable community builders (especially ecovillage folks) and advocates as a sort of "how to" handbook in dealing with government and bureaucracy.

[Barry]

Whatever... Maybe we should ask Barry for some insight about this.(c).

Ouch! Should I be offended? I have had some backpacking experience though. All of the Florida trail, The Big Cypress Swamp and some of the Everglades. My one time goal was to do the Appalachian from end to end, but that goal was lost in the shuffle of everyday life. The main things to consider even on a short trip is; your feet, it doesn't take long to work up blisters, especially with new boots, body temperature, it is not uncommon to become overheated in the day or hypothermic at night. Common sense is the course of action here. And last but not least, and the one I was always guilty of, don't pack more than you need. It is easy to justify non-essentials.
20

[River]

What, no waffle irons?! :eek:

[Barry]

What, no waffle irons?! :eek:

Sigh.......I'm afraid not, and you'll have to leave the WOK at home too.

[redsirenn]

haha. This is awesome.

[Barry]

... I study rare plants and the impact climate change will have on them. I am working on developing better computer models to predict where species will go as a result of climate change.

Fantastic!!!

[NeonKaos]

Bummer.

Bad weather forecast because of the latest hurricane so Steve is coming home for tonight (he's at the campsite with the trailer already - it's only 20 minutes' drive from where we live). They're talking about wind and trees falling down and inches of rain, so we'll try again tomorrow if it gets any better.

[River]

Kevin & I also cancelled our planned backpacking trip up into the high mountains (Lake Katherine) due to probability of rain and mostly cloudy weather. We could have survived the trip, but neither of us wanted to have our trip be about survival.

So we went to Bandelier National Park / Monument instead [http://www.nps.gov/band/index.htm], which is located at a vastly lower elevation, and thus warmer -- and we "car camped" instead. It was warm enough, night and day, and it only rained for ten or twenty minutes! Luckily, Kevin had put the canopy (over the cooking/eating area) up in the nick of time.

Had we backpacked into the high mountains -- something like twelve thousand feet --, we'd not have had the car-camping option of driving away if we didn't like the weather, or became overwhelmed with a desire for huevos rancheros at Harry's Roadhouse.

Man, it was so beautiful in Frijoles Canyon! Lush and green! And climbing that series of wooden ladders up to the kiva in the cave was quite an experience! It was my second time up those ladders, and in Bandelier, but the first was more than ten years ago, when Kevin & I were new together. Since we had no "official" anniversary previously, we decided to make the date, yesterday (August 30) our "anniversary". The marker is the date of our return and climb up those ladders -- which somehow connected our selves then with our selves now, and rounded things out into completeness.

[River]

Photos of the ladders mentioned above can be found here.: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/album.php?albumid=25

I swear, some of the ladders in the series were considerably taller than any of these, and all of them were a little more intimidating than any of these appear to be.

[River]

Among the many, or at least the several, dreams I had as a child was the dream of one day becoming an archaeologist. That never did happen. I can't say that I regret that it never happened. Other dreams captured me. Or too many dreams. Too many roads forking in too many directions.... Some roads fell off cliffs. Its a long story.

But the part of me that would have grown into an archaologist is having a good time getting acquainted with the Anasazi, or ancestral pueblo people of the American Southwest. It's not a very long drive from my tiny Santa Fe apartment to several of the Southwest's most important Anasazi sites. I've spent time at several, over the years. And there is good hiking and camping near each of them. Kevin and I are planning a backpacking trip into Bandalier National Park/Monument soon. We'll travel light, with our new and very cool water filter -- so will depend on water found along the trail, and won't be packing much of it in. That means following the river/s. (A small creek gets called "river" in New Mexico. A mud puddle may qualify as a "lake," for all I know.)

Anyway, I just purchased a book about the Anasazi, "House of Rain". I thought I'd tell you about it. http://houseofrain.com/ -- I'm diving into it now. I'll share some of what I learn.

[River]

Anyone here into foraging?

(For those who don't know..., foraging refers to gathering wild edible plants, nuts, berries, mushrooms....)

I'm studying--as a beginner--foraging in my neck of the woods. I live in Santa Fe and travel in the region for camping, backpacking, rockhounding....

I'm a stickler for knowing my plants and fungi really well, as not to accidentally ingest anything poisonous. This means, by my standards, learning those parts of botany relevant to good plant identification -- and the relevant mycology.

[NeonKaos]

This is an awesome book for anyone interested in wild mushrooms:

http://www.press.umich.edu/titleDetailDesc.do?id=157982

[MonoVCPHG]

Anyone here into foraging?

(For those who don't know..., foraging refers to gathering wild edible plants, nuts, berries, mushrooms....)

.

Redpepper's husband is very into mushrooms. He is borowwing my truck to do some gathering this week and gave me my first taste of "chicken of the forest" or chanterelle mushrooms.

[NeonKaos]

Redpepper's husband is very into mushrooms. He is borowwing my truck to do some gathering this week and gave me my first taste of "chicken of the forest" or chanterelle mushrooms.

Maybe that's what they call them up in your neck of the woods, but the "chicken of the woods" is actually this:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=chicken+of+the+woods&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=ym-uSqmHAZCsMZPStfIN&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4

"Hen of the woods" is this:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=hen+of+the+woods&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=PXCuSv-eE4b-Nbux7PIN&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=4

Chanterelles are something else:

http://images.google.com/images?hl=en&source=hp&q=chanterelles+mushrooms&um=1&ie=UTF-8&ei=BXCuSrOdOoySMfzj6fIN&sa=X&oi=image_result_group&ct=title&resnum=5

They are all 3 different, but obviously Chicken of the woods is the same colour as Chanterelle (there are also many types of Chanterelles but that orange one is the most recognized) and has the same presentation profile as Hen of the woods.

I have found and eaten the Chant and the Hen, but I never tried the Chix. It was rainy here for the first part of the season, but now everything is dried up (bummer). RP says it's so raining where you are so I am happy for you's that there will be mushrooms.

[Fidelia]

I forage, JRM. There's a really good book I use, called "Edible and Useful plants of Texas and the Southwest" by Delena Tull. You may find it useful as well.

Here in our little piece of paradise, I have harvested agarita berries, wild tomatillos, nopalitos and prickly pears, yucca petals and wild lettucesfor salads, and lots of mustang grapes, among other things.

I agree, it's absolutely vital to KNOW what you're looking at. The wild tomatillo, for instance, is related to tomatoes, eggplant and peppers, and also to deadly nightshade and several other poisonous plants native to my area. So, yeah, I want to know FOR SURE which member of the family I'm dealing with.

I also think it's crucial to harvest respectfully. I never harvest more than about 1/3 of a colony of plants (much less if they are scarce) and I try to return seeds and compost to the colony too.

[River]

Thanks for the book recommendation, Fidelia! Judging by the plants you have been foraging, I'm guessing you must live somewhere not too far from me, here in the Southwest. (Santa Fe, here, as you know.)

One book I'm using is Wild Plants of the Pueblo Province - http://www.amazon.com/Wild-Plants-Pueblo-Province-Exploring/dp/0890132720 . This book describes use and usages of native plants used by the Pueblo people of Southwest, and their "Anasazi" ancestors. Some of the plants were used as food, others for medicine, and yet others for tools and baskets, etc. The book has its limitations, as all that I've seen do. And so I think the only thing to do for anyone with a genuine interest is to collect several or many books on the subject. One of my other guide books has simply terrible distribution maps! And this Pueblo book is good, but leaves out a lot of important details.

[River]

YGirl, Thank you, also, for your mushroom book recommendation.

[XYZ123]

As a teen I used to go to a sleep away camp in upstate NY for the better part of the summers. It was smack in the middle of the woods with a mile long gravel road being the only way to drive in. There was nothing for miles around but trees. The owner used to cook with wild fruits and mushrooms native to the area and I became really interested in going out and foraging for them as I already loved cooking. Her son would take me through the woods and wildflower fields for hours and we'd come back with basket fulls of mushrooms, berries, apples, wild herbs. It's been so many years I'm sure I've forgotten but I loved it. I'd love to bring my son up there and go on the walks with him. Not only was the food excellent, but the nature hikes were beautiful and it was really fun. Like a treasure hunt where you always felt special when you found the biggest edible mushroom.

[River]

This is an awesome book for anyone interested in wild mushrooms:

http://www.press.umich.edu/titleDetailDesc.do?id=157982

Yes, it is. I just added it to my personal library. Thanks! Michael Kuo appears to be very good at helping his readers avoid poisoning themselves! And, apparently, many guide books don't warn against some of the look-alike poisonous mushrooms which Kuo does warn against. Some of them are deadly, and yet the other books often don't include warning of them.