Propositioning

[ladyslipper]

Hello, I wasn't able to find a good thread to hitch on to with my question so I have started a new one. But first, let me jut say, what a great community/resource. I am so glad to have found it. The last week has been a crazy discovery process and this forum was a god-send. I have read a lot on here. You are all so giving of your time and insights.

My husband and I (30 y/o female) are about to attempt a triangle. We didn't go looking for it although we have always desired a third, it has sort of happened organically. After much discussion between the two of us we are having a hard time deciding how to bring the third in to our discussion. He is a close family friend of ours who spends much time with all of us - my husband, my 5 y/o daughter and myself. We all get along famously but the topic of intimacy between three seems so taboo. We are scared!

There is already some chemistry happening between him and I and I beleive he has some sense of our desires but nothing has been said quite explicitly.

Mainly I would like to hear your thoughts on one approach being considered: In an effort to avoid further delay, speak plainly and clearly we are considering e-mailng him initially. We think this could give him a chance to process the idea in private and an in person discussion could happen subsequently if he is interested. Can anyone see any glaring problems with this? I'm sure I have blinders on.

[Laylah]

uhm... you can do it how you like but If it was me.... i'd do it in person. But thats just me. And if it was me i'd just lay it all out on the table... then give him some time to process it all. It may take awhile to. Either way you know where you'd stand with the person. I mean its not like he'd kill you or nothing... the only thing is he can say no or yeah and then move on with it.

[redpepper]

what you are going to offer him is called a "triad." I suggest that you do a search in the tags for "triad" and "vee" to see the difference, because it sound like you are really offering him a vee... with you being the hinge...

The situation you are describing is the best place to start a poly dynamic. Friends first and a movement to more often seems to work best. Good luck, and ya, in person is best I think. Why not start communication off right.

I also suggest you look at tags like "lessons" and "foundation" to get an idea how you might start off on the right foot.

[ladyslipper]

what you are going to offer him is called a "triad." I suggest that you do a search in the tags for "triad" and "vee" to see the difference, because it sound like you are really offering him a vee... with you being the hinge...

The situation you are describing is the best place to start a poly dynamic. Friends first and a movement to more often seems to work best. Good luck, and ya, in person is best I think. Why not start communication off right.

I also suggest you look at tags like "lessons" and "foundation" to get an idea how you might start off on the right foot.

Thanks Layla & Redpepper. I have read about all the terminology and it is not a triad we want at all. A triangle is what we are looking for, all three of us together at once. A threesome - MFM.
I've looked through a lot on here, trying to start at the beginning, it is quite overwhelming the amount of info!
I am inclined to think like you - start it off face to face. My husband, who has known him longer than I have, thinks it might be off putting for him or make him feel on the spot. I tend to think it will be a little awkward for all of us in the beginning. The potential newbie seems almost asexual in that he doesn't have girlfriends or talk much about love interests...
I guess it boils down to fear of the unknown.
I hoped maybe someone has been propositioned in this way and could say yes, it was nice or no it felt cold.

[Laylah]

well i guess im alittle more blunt on such things and am not shy...In this situation.. I suppose you kinda need to tiptoe through the tulips so to speak on it... as to not run the person off lol. I think i'd just say what you want... and explain its not a swinging thing at all. seeing as how you guys have been friends forever and a day... I bet 9 times outta 10 they've had that thought to... and been to shy to say something about it. Maybe they would be releived someone did. You never know till you try.;)

[mrladyslipper]

well i guess im alittle more blunt on such things and am not shy...In this situation.. I suppose you kinda need to tiptoe through the tulips so to speak on it... as to not run the person off lol. I think i'd just say what you want... and explain its not a swinging thing at all. seeing as how you guys have been friends forever and a day... I bet 9 times outta 10 they've had that thought to... and been to shy to say something about it. Maybe they would be releived someone did. You never know till you try.;)

Thanks for your thoughts Laylah and Redpepper. I am the husband :) I have wanted to bring a couple and/or another person (MFM and FMF) into our family for many years. I thought of my good friend (over 20yrs) a couple of wks ago but did not say anything to my wife. She started to think about him as a 3way last wk (or so) but did not know how to tell me...lol (we are very in tune to each other :) ). On Sat morning she opened up to me while we were laying in bed, we have had only 4 days to sink in everything (over load...lol). We both have deep feelings for him (turns of on, not all sex part) and like that he is a solo kind of guy (needs his place and space a lot). He came over on Sat night (it was planned before both my wife and i talked) and we tried to talk about it but everything was still so new to us (no time to have a deep talk with my wife and I alone). My thought (knowing him so well) was to email him a simple message (not to much info, just a right amount) and state that we want to come over to his house this wkend and talk about our feelings for him. Maybe not stay to long so he can think about it after we leave. I just dont want to stop over at his place and then bring up the subject (no warning about the subject), corner him in and no place to go. I think this might work well but we have never done this before.

[Derbylicious]

BTW a triad is a relationship where everyone is involved with each other. A "V" is one where there is a central person involved with 2 people who are not involved with each other. Hope that helps a bit with the terminology.

I agree that bringing this up face to face is probably the way to go. I would start out by saying that you don't need an answer right away and that you don't want the discussion to make things weird between the 3 of you. Good luck.

[TL4everu2]

Voice of experience here. My wife and I's first experience with someone outside of our marriage was with my best friend. My wife had mentioned that she thought he was "hot" and wouldn't mind sleeping with him, but that she would never cheat on me, etc.

I explained to her that I was ok with it if he was, and I would talk to him about it sometime in the ner future. Well, after she and I had many discussions about it, I finally got the balls to set it up and ask him.

We had him come over for drinks one night. We were all sitting around playing cards and board games. Then, it was getting late, (about 1am) and we were all hungry. My wife was drinking more than us, and so he and I went to Taco Bell for something to eat. While in the drive thru, I looked at him and said "So, I don't know if you noticed or not, but L (my wife) finds you pretty hot. He laughed and said "Oh? I hadn't noticed, but she is pretty drunk tonight. haha". I looked at him and asked "Well, would you like to sleep with her?" He about fell off the earth! LOL His mouth dropped open and he stammered a bit and said "HUH?!?" I repeated my question to him, and added that I was ok with it if he wanted to. He said he wouldn't mind, but didn't want to piss me off. I told him that I would make the first move back at the house. Well, he couldn't have driven that little truck any faster to get back to our house. In fact, he almost forgot the food! LOL

We got back to the house, and to ease his mind, I helped my wife get a little "more comfortable" by helping her to remove some of her constrictive clothing. :D LOL

This relationship lasted about 2 years until he got married. At that point, he cut it all off citing his wife as the reason why. He said she didn't know anything about his sexual relationship with my wife. So, out of respect, we never slept with him again. We never pressured him about it, and generally never spoke of it. He said his wife wasn't into that type of relationship. :(




So, my advice?

Invite him over for some booze. Pop the question early enough that no-one is drunk. This way, you can CLAIM you were "pretty messed up last night" if you HAVE to, because he said no, the next day. But it also helps to loosen up a person a little more.

[Carma]

TL4,
Thanks for sharing!!! :)

[TL4everu2]

No problem Carma. Always happy to help. My "friends" get the un-censored version though. Wanna be my "friend"? LOL :p

[Carma]

Yes, I do want to be your friend! I love friends! (Is there something official? Do I need to sign a form or something?! :))

[nycindie]

I am the husband :) . . . My thought (knowing him so well) was to email him a simple message (not to much info, just a right amount) and state that we want to come over to his house this wkend and talk about our feelings for him. Maybe not stay to long so he can think about it after we leave. I just dont want to stop over at his place and then bring up the subject (no warning about the subject), corner him in and no place to go. I think this might work well but we have never done this before.This sounds good. I was thinking along those lines -- that an email could be sent first just to say that there is something important you'd like to discuss. I would not recommend using alcohol (or drugs) as a ruse to express your desires, as I think your communication would be better and come across as more heartfelt if unfettered by a substance. It's different (and absolutely fine) if it happens that way naturally, but as a "set-up" to make uncomfortable discussion easier -- no. It could get sloppy and create something you don't really want.

Anyway, when you do go to his place to talk to him, you could broach the subject by saying how much you've valued his friendship through the years, and express your feelings toward him as a friend first. Then you could go into how you two have been reading about different ways of being in relationship, are interested in exploring new possibilities for your marriage, and have decided to open up your relationship. Then say that you really want to start with someone you already love and trust, and ask if he would consider going beyond friendship with you. You would probably do well to also acknowledge that this is new to you and that you both feel a bit awkward asking, so that puts you all on the same level playing field, and let him know that his decision either way will not affect the friendship that already exists between you.

It still isn't clear to me whether you both want to be sexually involved with this friend, or are only interested in him as another partner for Ms. Ladyslipper only. So make sure you are clear in expressing to him what it is you both want.

Look in his eyes and draw on the friendship you already have to speak to him with love and compassion and, no matter how nervous you are about it, it will be all right.

[ladyslipper]

TL4, that is a great story! Thanks for sharing, eases my mind a bit. Too bad it couldn't go on with a 4th in the mix!

[ladyslipper]

Great advice nycindie, thank you so much. We have decided to go this route with a short e-mail to prepare him for a discussion we hope to have when he is ready.

We are not keen on me having a separate fling with the 3rd and I've always wanted two at once anyway. We hope he will be open to both of us together. The nature of our friendship has this type of balance among all three of us so we are optimistic it could move to the next level that way.

[nycindie]

Great advice nycindie, thank you so much. We have decided to go this route with a short e-mail to prepare him for a discussion we hope to have when he is ready.

Mr. Ladyslipper is not keen on me having a separate fling with the 3rd and I've always wanted two at once anyway. We hope he will be open to both of us together. The nature of our friendship has this type of balance among all three of us so we are optimistic it could move to the next level that way.Hi, glad to be of some help. Okay, I'm still not clear about how you two want to be involved, and I hope you don't mind my asking again. It is clear that you want a threesome (for lack of a better word) together, but does that mean your husband Mr. Ladyslipper will also be physically intimate with this third person, or just present while you are with him? I am asking not for prurient interest, but to stress how important it is -- for your friend -- for you both to be clear about what it is you want. He may be interested in one of those options but not the other. You don't have to answer me on this, but be sure to be upfront and specific when you communicate to him. Of course, it's obvious that it's more than just the sex that you want in the relationship, but it's important to get that part across very clearly.

[redpepper]

It might be just semantics, but it is a *triad* that you are proposing if you all intend to be sexual and in love with each other. I would suggest you look at thread tagged "secondary" as there are many issues that could come up.

I am thinking you are in a bit of NRE over all of this and that is fine, but preparing is really beneficial before hand so as to not confuse things. Precautionary meassures are better than fixing things when they go wrong.

Ya, alcohol and drugs of any kind might produce a one night stand. At least in my experience that is all they have produced. Not to mention they can lead to taking a toll on ones *self* I would suggest staying sober and aware of everything as you go. Better to not jump into sex and work on the relationship. You are looking for more than sex it seems and that is poly. Otherwise its more like swinging and having an open relationship. All good, but different. Poly is confusing enough as it is. Adding sex right away can make it more so.

[ladyslipper]

It might be just semantics, but it is a *triad* that you are proposing if you all intend to be sexual and in love with each other. I would suggest you look at thread tagged "secondary" as there are many issues that could come up.

I am thinking you are in a bit of NRE over all of this and that is fine, but preparing is really beneficial before hand so as to not confuse things. Precautionary meassures are better than fixing things when they go wrong.

Ya, alcohol and drugs of any kind might produce a one night stand. At least in my experience that is all they have produced. Not to mention they can lead to taking a toll on ones *self* I would suggest staying sober and aware of everything as you go. Better to not jump into sex and work on the relationship. You are looking for more than sex it seems and that is poly. Otherwise its more like swinging and having an open relationship. All good, but different. Poly is confusing enough as it is. Adding sex right away can make it more so.

Whew, here I thought I had all this terminology figured out! LOL
There is def some NRE going on and preparing is exactly what we are here for and will continue to do. I'm reading as much as I can, thanks for the tips!

My husband is bi-curious but we do not know about the newbie's preference in this regard. The only thing we are not open to is my having a separate sexual relationship with our friend.

We began looking into this lifestyle more because it started feeling like the 4 of us (husband, wife, friend, daughter) were experiencing the closeness of a family. I think approaching it slowly is definitely the way to go.

[Tonberry]

I guess the first step would be making sure that he's bisexual? If you intend to both have a relationship with him. But I'm assuming you already know that he is or you wouldn't go further :P
I think there really isn't a way to go slowly with something like that. It's going to be a shock either way. This being said, how you deal with it is what matters. Make sure there is no pressure and that he feels respected whatever his choice is, and I think you should be fine. If what you want is a triad and not a vee, make it clear that you want to both be with him, as he might have interest in only one of you.

If, however, what you want is for him to be with you only, but only with your husband present, then that's a bit different. Either way, make it clear what you want and don't want.
I personally think that would be a bit harder, because having sex with someone for the first time can be pressuring, but if there is someone else watching that could make it more awkward. But I don't know him, maybe that's his kind of thing!

Either way, you seem to say he would only have sex if both of you are present. Whether you're looking for a triad or a vee, it's important to be clear on that point, as it means you'd be having sex with just the two of you, but he'd only be able to have sex with both of you present, which could seem unfair if he wasn't warned from the get go.

[ladyslipper]

If, however, what you want is for him to be with you only, but only with your husband present, then that's a bit different. Either way, make it clear what you want and don't want.
I personally think that would be a bit harder, because having sex with someone for the first time can be pressuring, but if there is someone else watching that could make it more awkward. But I don't know him, maybe that's his kind of thing!

Yes, that is what we want. What you pointed out is a concern of mine which, I guess, will ultimately be up to him.

We are not sure if he is bi at all. He talks very little if ever about this side of himself. I've actually wondered if he was celibate in the past. But I don't think you have to be bi to be with the same lady at once... ?

Thanks for your imput.

[redpepper]

I think if I were you I would be asking what if he only is interested in one of us? What if we start out as three and one of us loses interest? What kind of consessions will we make for private time?

[mrladyslipper]

Thanks everyone for your thoughts... Lots of good points made!

I am bi-curious (both my wife and i r) but if my friend is not into that i am ok with it! We are ONLY looking for a triad out this deeper friendship and will talk to him about everything we are feeling for him! My wife wants to be with my friend and i at the same time (3way, hate that term...lol) and if he is not ok with that we will not go further. Like my wife stated: But I don't think you have to be bi to be with the same lady at once... ? You can be in a mfm triad and do not have to be bi... We sent him an email today, little details...and will talk to him in person when we can meet up with him. We told him to take his time with the email and if he does not want to meet up this wkend and just talk then we can wait (no rush for us). We will be straight to the point about our thoughts (including him with us 2 in bed and etc) with him and see what he states. If he only wants to be with my wife or I then we will not go any further like i stated (my wife agreed with me when we talked). We are a close group and love him around your family and feel very safe when he is hang out with our daughter. My wife and i have talked about this for the last 4 days and i think we have talked about every that has been posted. I (my wife too) do not want to get our hopes up to high and if he is not into this at all then we will be ok with it! He is the only guy we would want with us in a triad (3way)... If this does not work out then we would like to find another couple slowly down the road.

Thanks again everyone! I think we have enough info for a bit...lol Wonderful site! My wife and i are happy to take the next step even if it is not with my good friend.

[redpepper]

Its totally possible to have a mfm relationship sexually without the men being bi. My guys aren't sexual together but we have had sex together. PN is bi and poly, Mono not. Read my blog and Mono's cohabitation tread. Not to mention the poly vingnettes sticky for more on our family.

Good luck! :)

[Tonberry]

But I don't think you have to be bi to be with the same lady at once... ?

No, that was in case you were looking for a relationship in which all three of you would be involved all at once, which is generally what's understood by "triad". What you do want is referred to as a "vee" or "V", with you as the hinge or pivot, meaning you would be involved with both of them but they wouldn't be directly involved with one another, only through you.

Some men might be uncomfortable with the idea of being close to another man while having sex, but a lot of them probably wouldn't, and really the only way to know is ask him!

[TL4everu2]

On being bi and in a MFM relationship: It is NOT necissary to be bi to be in that dynamic. I am not bi. I'm not even bi-curious. To my knowledge, neither was my best friend at the time. I am just NOT homophobic. So when parts touched, it wasn't a problem. The overall goal, was to please my wife. And please her we did. ;)

[ladyslipper]

So I wanted to stop back and share my lessons about propositioning a friend via e-mail. My husband and I were both very concerned with how the revelation of this new idea we were exploring would impact our friendship with the person we were attempting to bring into our marriage. My husband was correct I think, in assuming that he would feel more comfortable with an e-mail. So we tried to e-mail him in an attempt to prepare him for an actual face to face. This ended up coming off cryptic and he asked us just to "spit it out". We obliged. The thing about laying this all out in an e-mail was that we didn't want to say too much or too little. We ended up having the discussion with out ever having the discussion. And while we wanted it to be easy for him to say no we also wanted him to say yes. The thing we couldn't see coming for some reason was the huge empty spaces in all of this that he was left to fill in for himself. With out the benefit of ever looking us in the eyes or saying what came to mind at the moment it came to mind. It was entirely too easy to dismiss the whole thing completely. I won't go so far as to say he didn't give it enough thought or he doesn't know what he's missing but I can't help feeling we missed the mark on this one. He's decided it just isn't for him. Who am I to say otherwise, still, I'll hold out hope that the idea continues to grow in his mind. My husband and I have certainly benefited greatly from all the discussions we've had. Thanks again to everyone here.

[mrladyslipper]

So I wanted to stop back and share my lessons about propositioning a friend via e-mail. My husband and I were both very concerned with how the revelation of this new idea we were exploring would impact our friendship with the person we were attempting to bring into our marriage. My husband was correct I think, in assuming that he would feel more comfortable with an e-mail. So we tried to e-mail him in an attempt to prepare him for an actual face to face. This ended up coming off cryptic and he asked us just to "spit it out". We obliged. The thing about laying this all out in an e-mail was that we didn't want to say too much or too little. We ended up having the discussion with out ever having the discussion. And while we wanted it to be easy for him to say no we also wanted him to say yes. The thing we couldn't see coming for some reason was the huge empty spaces in all of this that he was left to fill in for himself. With out the benefit of ever looking us in the eyes or saying what came to mind at the moment it came to mind. It was entirely too easy to dismiss the whole thing completely. I won't go so far as to say he didn't give it enough thought or he doesn't know what he's missing but I can't help feeling we missed the mark on this one. He's decided it just isn't for him. Who am I to say otherwise, still, I'll hold out hope that the idea continues to grow in his mind. My husband and I have certainly benefited greatly from all the discussions we've had. Thanks again to everyone here.

Very well stated!

I feel the email was the best way with this person but other people might be better face to face. Our friend sparked a new way in our life as a married couple and i thank him for that. We did a lot of talking this last week and learned a lot more about each other and yourselfs... How really deep our love is for each other and how we would like to share our lifes with anothers in the future. The idea is in his head so we are always open for him to join us. We have decide to take our time and try to find a nice couple in the area that would like to slowly build a friendship in a deeper level.

Thanks again for all the post!

[Laylah]

So I wanted to stop back and share my lessons about propositioning a friend via e-mail. My husband and I were both very concerned with how the revelation of this new idea we were exploring would impact our friendship with the person we were attempting to bring into our marriage. My husband was correct I think, in assuming that he would feel more comfortable with an e-mail. So we tried to e-mail him in an attempt to prepare him for an actual face to face. This ended up coming off cryptic and he asked us just to "spit it out". We obliged. The thing about laying this all out in an e-mail was that we didn't want to say too much or too little. We ended up having the discussion with out ever having the discussion. And while we wanted it to be easy for him to say no we also wanted him to say yes. The thing we couldn't see coming for some reason was the huge empty spaces in all of this that he was left to fill in for himself. With out the benefit of ever looking us in the eyes or saying what came to mind at the moment it came to mind. It was entirely too easy to dismiss the whole thing completely. I won't go so far as to say he didn't give it enough thought or he doesn't know what he's missing but I can't help feeling we missed the mark on this one. He's decided it just isn't for him. Who am I to say otherwise, still, I'll hold out hope that the idea continues to grow in his mind. My husband and I have certainly benefited greatly from all the discussions we've had. Thanks again to everyone here.

Well.. atleast now you guys know.. how he feels on it all.. and you can honestly say youve gotten over a hurdle so to speak.. I was right though.. he didnt kill ya.. it was either yea or neigh And its always easier later on MOST of the time anyway.. if someone else comes along.. at least you got the knowledge that you can ask these kinds of things and not be to shy about it.

I think maybe even though your friend said no .... that maybe it brought the two of you closer together. So thats always a good thing.:D