Scared Monogamous Newbie [Archive]

River

07-29-2009, 09:15 PM

Hi, I have been in a relationship with a wonderful man for a while now. He says he is poly. I am bitter and angry over it. I do not like his wife and I can't come to terms with this situation. How does a monogamous person fit into this? I really love this man.

I don't feel like I have enough details to really understand your situation well enough to offer suggestions. "A while now" is too vague. You love him but really don't like his wife, which makes me really wonder what's going on there, but provides me nothing much to go on. You say you "can't come to terms with the situation," but aren't clear about WHY you can't. I think most of us reading this will want to know a good deal more detail about your situation before offering suggestions. What, in specifics and details, is troubling you? Do you want him to leave his wife and live monogamously with you? Is his wife aware of your relationship? Are you friends or lovers with this man? We don't know, yet.

distraughtinNJ

07-29-2009, 09:23 PM

Sorry, I am very scared about this whole thing. Yes, his wife knows about it from day 1. She says she is ok with it. He spends one night with her and alternating night with me. I love to be with him and do things with him. I do love him but also feel that he is not going to be monogamous with me then I am not enough for him or........I don't know. I hate being invited to a party out to dinner and he doesn't go with me because it is not my turn. I know one of my biggest problems is that I am worried about what everyone (friends, strangers, family) will think I am involved in this.

River

07-29-2009, 09:40 PM

I do love him but also feel that he is not going to be monogamous with me then I am not enough for him or........I don't know.

All of the further details help us a lot to offer informed suggestions. Thanks!

First item: I feel (and think) that you need to spend some time exploring your enculturation in the popular conception of what love is. Apparently, up to now, you've simply lived with the "default conception" of love, which is the common assumption that loving more than one person means there's less love going on, and anything other than the dyadic model of love ("Just the two of us") amounts to "cheating. Period, end of story". Polyamorists don't buy into this myth of love, and most of us actually know that it is simply FALSE. It is perfectly possible for a person to love two or more people fully at the same time. That's a fact, and you have to discover whether or not you can accept such love into your life. That said, not all people claiming to be "polyamorous" are capable of loving two or more people, fully, at the same time. So you have to find out whether you think your partner is one of those, and can do that with you.

I know one of my biggest problems is that I am worried about what everyone (friends, strangers, family) will think I am involved in this.

As a man who has had only two long term love relationships, both with men, I'm quite familiar with the challenge of which you speak -- since same-sex love is another variety of love which many people don't understand or approve of. That said, I'd encourage you to have courage... and to worry less about other people's ignorant presumptions of superiority, etc. Find the couragious tiger in yourself, I'd say. Be strong. Don't let other people's ignorance dictate your options in life. It's YOUR life, afer all, which you must live.

MonoVCPHG

07-29-2009, 09:49 PM

That said, not all people claiming to be "polyamorous" are capable of loving two or more people, fully, at the same time. So you have to find out whether you think your partner is one of those, and can do that with you.

Be strong. Don't let other people's ignorance dictate your options in life. It's YOUR life, afer all, which you must live.

Great words, JRM.

If I listened to many of my mono friends I wouldn't be in the incredibly loving relationship I have with Redpepper. How sad would it be if I let others decide how and who I love. That doesn't mean it isn't costing me a few friendships, but my own life is worth it:)

Definitely figure out his heart and intentions before opening up more within yourself and with others. Take a deep look into your own heart as well.

distraughtinNJ

07-29-2009, 09:51 PM

River

07-29-2009, 09:55 PM

I did not sign on to have to have share him with his wife.

Um. Are you sure of that? Because it looks to me, from what you've said, that this is pretty much what is on offering.

distraughtinNJ

07-29-2009, 09:59 PM

Yes it is what is on offering and I am having a hard time dealing with that.

River

07-29-2009, 10:04 PM

Yes it is what is on offering and I am having a hard time dealing with that.

Probably, the only hope you have to deal with it well is to find out precisely, exactly, down to the nitty gritty emotional and conceptual details, why this is so "hard" for you.

And that's only the start! Then, you will have to stare it down. I mean, really look at it long and hard, and find out whether what you think and feel is, ultimately, true, good, and right.

Right now, odds are, you're just thinking and feeling what was implanted in you -- and most all of us -- while growing up.

Most everyone in this forum is grappling with that conditioning; and some of us are much further down the road than others.:eek:

River

07-29-2009, 10:27 PM

http://www.polyamory.org.uk/jealousy_clewis.html

Nyx

07-30-2009, 12:19 AM

Distraught - I might be able to help in some way, if nothing else than to tell you I have a similar quandary myself. I have other posts on here explaining more, but basically I have been momogamous but involved with a man for over a year who told me he was poly from the start, but TRIED to be mono with me for several months, could not, and now it is my turn to try his way.

First off, I am asking myself: What is love? What does it mean to be in love? What am I getting out of this relationship that it means so much? What exactly is wrong with my bf being with other women? What exactly am I afraid of and is that fear based on reality or fantasy?

Here are some answers I have pondered: Love is a reciprocal relationship between people where all parties get their needs met in regard to support, companionship, positive regard, attention.

I am still working on what it means to be in love...there are a myriad answers to this, same as there are many answers to the above question as well.

As to what is wrong with my man seeing other women....I come up short-handed on good answers there. My bf has been honest with me about who he is seeing and when. He has been respectful (mostly, although we have had many miscommunications too) of my feelings.

My one argument was STD's and that was resolved by his promise to be safe and communicate with his lovers before sexual encounters (that hasn't even come up yet though). But that doesn't make me entirely comfortable with the idea of him sleeping with other women, it helps though.

Other than that, I know that he loves me the same amount regardless of who he spends time with. But it is another thing entirely for me to live that knowledge, put it into practice, believe it.

We can't have someone's attention all the time. It seems to me like the most difficult hurdle you have already been dealing with: sharing him with his wife. If you can come to terms with the fact that he sleeps with you both that's a major accomplishment.

I understand your fear. It's about losing control. It's about uncertainty. All valid fears. But you can work through them if it's important enough. I have a long road ahead myself. But I am committed to exploring my own internal fears and insecurities. I hope things work out for you and please keep us posted.

Oh and as far as worrying what other people think - I started by edging around the subject with people I felt might understand and quickly realized that my friends and family were more understanding than I thought they would be. Some people, however, like my mother would not understand. I did mention to her my bf's decision and she was disgusted so I avoid conversations with her about it.

MonoVCPHG

07-30-2009, 01:56 AM

I do not want to lose him. I connected with HIM and want to have a relationship with HIM. I did not sign on to have to have share him with his wife.

My understanding is that when you began your relationship he was in the process of leaving his wife. This implies you were prepared and intending to enter a monogamous relationship. If that is the case than I see his changing his mind as a breach of the expected dynamic and an extreme one at that.

If he follows through with rebuilding his marriage then based on your own statement you are probably not going to be healthy in this. Your choice is clear to me.

"I did not sign on to have to have share him with his wife".

Let him go.

River

07-30-2009, 02:33 AM

My understanding is that when you began your relationship he was in the process of leaving his wife. This implies you were prepared and intending to enter a monogamous relationship. If that is the case than I see his changing his mind as a breach of the expected dynamic and an extreme one at that. [....]

Let him go.

Mono..., Don't you think the situation is a little more nuanced than that? :confused:

MonoVCPHG

07-30-2009, 02:41 AM

Mono..., Don't you think the situation is a little more nuanced than that? :confused:

I think there might be a tinge of denial in it. Nyx seams clear she does not like or want his wife's involvement. That is not sustainable in light of how much of him she wants I think. I am just concerned that people don't settle for some of what they want, poly or mono. Go for great, not good.

I know what living unfullfilled feels like. I don't do that anymore and I wouldn't want it for any one else.

That's all, but I can be pretty simple sometimes:)

XYZ123

07-30-2009, 03:35 AM

JRiver- I have to agree with Mono. If she can look deep down into herself and say "This is worth it. I can do this." great. But, if not, or if she's "settling" as he puts it, she needs to move on.
You talk alot about how "conditioning" is why people feel they need to be mono and how it is "false" and can be "overcome". But it isn't false. And it isn't always about conditioning. Sometimes....people are just mono. Because that's who they are. Just as they are poly, gay, straight, bi, etc. And we can love more than one person, yes, but that love takes different forms. Maybe only one love can be romantic.

Distraught- It seems as if, if you decide to stick with him, you will have to share him. It doesn't mean he loves you less because he loves his wife. It doesn't mean that, given time and effort, you can't establish a more friendly and respectful relationship with his wife. And it doesn't mean your relationship with him is threatened-at least not in his eyes. What you have to do is basically what Nyx suggested. Take a good look at yourself, your emotions, your thoughts, and your relationship with him. Then decide if what you gain from it is worth what you feel you're losing. All relationships are compromise. But none should feel one sided or settled for.

River

07-30-2009, 03:08 PM

JRiver- ....
You talk a lot about how "conditioning" is why people feel they need to be mono and how it is "false" and can be "overcome". But it isn't false. And it isn't always about conditioning.

I never said that monogamy, per se, is "false" -- which would be a plenty weird thing to say -- what could that mean? Rather, I said that the BELIEF that only monogamous (or pair-bonded, dyadic) love could be true love is false. And it is false, and that's a fact and not merely an opinion. Apparently millions of people are able to "romantically" love more than one person at a time and to have very happy and healthy polyamorous love. I keep repeating this fact in order to help counterpoise the nearly ubiquitous attitude which denies this reality by insisting that only dyadic love is "true love".

Monogamy, per se, is neither true nor false. It is monogam-ism which is false. Monogamism is the belief that only monogamous love is real and valid, and nonmonogamy is always inferior or morally wrong.

It may be true that some folks just aren't cut out for polyamory, in the sense that they simply cannot live and love this way. But I believe this is a changable condition, not a permanent one. I was myself once such a person. I changed. And I'm extremly happy that this change has occurred in myself. It's one of the most valued changes I've gone through, for I have learned many other things through the process, besides. And I feel that I much better understand what love is, because of it. True love isn't fearful and possessive, or jealous. Yet we all grew up with movies and tv shows and radio songs..., and parents, and friends, and churches..., saying that it is. Well it isn't! That, too, is false. Jealousy and fear and possessiveness... are symptoms of insecurity, doubt, and fear of lack. That's all they are. They surely are not symptoms of love. Love is much better without them.

MonoVCPHG

07-30-2009, 07:46 PM

That, too, is false. Jealousy and fear and possessiveness... are symptoms of insecurity, doubt, and fear of lack. That's all they are. They surely are not symptoms of love. Love is much better without them.

This is not meant to an argument but just another viewpoint that I hear from many.

Selfishness, neediness, and putting yourself first are also not symptoms of love and to a large number of people in the straight and queer communities that is what polyamory amounts to.

Wanting multiple loves/lovers can also be attributed to a degree of insecurity as well.

There are too sides to every coin.

distraughtinNJ

07-30-2009, 07:55 PM

Thanks to all of you. I had a visit to my shrink today and she, as well as I, want to know what the benefits are to polyamory that can convince a "conditioned mono".

vandalin

07-30-2009, 08:09 PM

Well the one benefit that I am definitly getting currently is the love and support from my husband after having my heart broken. You can get support from friends, but this is more intimate (and I don't mean sex), a more personal kind of support, especially if non of your other friends know of your polyness or understand it.

MonoVCPHG

07-30-2009, 08:18 PM

First there is the question of whether you are a "conditioned mono" or a "natural mono".

If you're a conditioned mono, then perhaps you could be free to explore multiple loves yourself and enjoy more intimate people in your life.

As a natural mono, my benefits are solely hinged on the opportunity to love Redpepper. If she wasn't polyamorous I wouldn't be able to share her intimate love. In knowing she has a loving husband I am somewhat free to take time for myself that I might feel guilt over if it was just me and her.

I could still be involved in her family if we weren't intimately in love and all the aspects I have learned from poly could be applied in a mono relationship. It has brought out growth in me and realizations I might not otherwise been pushed to however.

It's good you are seeking help. Hopefully your therapist is relationship style neutral. I don't like the idea of anyone going to see a traditional relationship or poly friendly relationship therapist because both may have a tendency to preach their own beliefs whether intentional or not.

Take care and good luck in your journey

MonoVCPHG

07-30-2009, 08:20 PM

Well the one benefit that I am definitly getting currently is the love and support from my husband after having my heart broken. .

Sorry Vandalin, but I think she is looking at it from the perspective of being mono entering into a poly relationship..but I could be wrong:)

redpepper

07-30-2009, 08:24 PM

I am sensing that not only are you scared but angry also. Being in a "v" is not easy.

His wife takes presidence over you I am afraid and will, in my opinion, until he sorts his marriage out fully. I would think, from what I understand, that they have just worked it out and are sorting their own issues out.
Be careful and empathetic my friend. You might lose him if you lose patience and make demands. She came first and is the one he married. You would be better off looking into your heart and seeing what it is you hate about her and do your best to be friendly and hospitable. Often wives have the vito power and if you can't find it in your heart to play nice that might be what happens.

You are embarking on something huge and the likes you have never known... There will be new relationship rules that you get to lay out, but also they do, there will be far more time alone possibly than mono relationships, you will negotiate like never before and will communicate like never before. You will also love like never before! It will change your life from here on in.

Its your choice if you make that a positive change and learn from it or not.

Remember, she is not the enemy and poly is not the enemy. No one is the enemy, its just different than you are used to and may or may not be your path. Nothing more and nothing less.

I think mono is the only mono one on here that could help. Many of us have come from a similar place and all of us have had huge struggles at times with living life this way. Most, if not all, have been mono ourselves.

Your man is asking you to step up to the plate, as is his wife.

Good luck! Keep being honest and open as that is where to start.

Mono's going to be jealous! He doesn't get me half as much as you are getting your man! Think yourself lucky! Infact! Think yourself lucky that you are experiencing life! This path has been laid before you for a reason. I, for one, wonder what that reason is and how you intend to use it for the better good.?

distraughtinNJ

07-30-2009, 08:25 PM

Sorry Vandalin, but I think she is looking at it from the perspective of being mono entering into a poly relationship..but I could be wrong:)

Yes, I am looking for benefits of being mono in a poly relationship.

distraughtinNJ

07-30-2009, 08:33 PM

I am sensing that not only are you scared but angry also. Being in a "v" is not easy.?

Yes, scared and angry are it. I was married at age 19 for 10 years to a controling abusive man who cheated on me with the next door neighbor while I was at work stating that if he couldn't get what he wanted from me (sexually) then he is more than allowed to go get it somewhere else. I have escaped that but the cheating, not good enough, I'll get it where ever I want because you are a loser feelings still haunt me.

distraughtinNJ

07-30-2009, 08:36 PM

Mono's going to be jealous! He doesn't get me half as much as you are getting your man!

Mono....don't you miss her and hate being alone so much?

MonoVCPHG

07-30-2009, 08:46 PM

Yes, I am looking for benefits of being mono in a poly relationship.

Being mono in a poly relationship has pushed me to develop my communication skills like never before. It has taught me the value of radical honesty and maintaining connection through actually "talking" with the woman I love. It has also allowed me to have a wonderful "chosen" family.

Here's the thing, once those lesson are learned and skills developed they can be applied to any relationship dynamic. I know I am a better partner than I ever could have become in my mono relationship. These are transferable, however. So what are the long term benefits to being in a poly relationship as a mono? For me it is about getting to love a woman I would not otherwise have had the opportunity. That is the one benefit that I could not have if she wasn't poly.

Wow..you do get your man a lot! Redpepper would get bored though..KIDDING Lilo!!

MonoVCPHG

07-30-2009, 08:54 PM

Mono....don't you miss her and hate being alone so much?

The ability to be alone and happy is one I worked at and didn't develop for 37 years. I spent Xmas alone Last year and it was a wonderful and fulfilling time.

I miss Redpepper always, but I never feel completely without her. She resides in my heart no matter where she is. I also love her husband and take a great deal of pleasure in knowing she is with him and safe. I want them closer as a couple.

Their relationship is easy for me because ultimately I want their family to thrive even if it costs me in the end. I love her so much I simply want her to be happy and fulfilled within her marriage and family. That is why I have no jealousy for what they have.

I love myself now..grudgingly because of my past but still I do. I am never alone

distraughtinNJ

07-30-2009, 09:21 PM

I love myself now..grudgingly because of my past but still I do. I am never alone

I hope I could get there someday.

River

07-30-2009, 09:25 PM

As I consider the question of "the advantages of polyamory," the main thing that comes to mind is that it isn't necessarily the best question to ask. There are advantages to both monogamy and polyamory. But the more urgent question, to me, is what are the advantages of a non-possessive versus a possessive style of loving?

What is it to be possessive? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/possessive

What is a possession? http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/possession

A possession is a kind (or form) of property.

Now, it is conceivable that a couple could choose a monogamous love-style without choosing to behave as if the other was their property, or possession. But often monogamous people treat one another as property or possession without any thought that that's exactly what they are doing.

A piece of property, or a possession, essentially, is something under our control. To control is "to exercise restraint or direction over; dominate; command."

Such control is usually manifested by a rule or an agreement.: You may do this but not do that."

Well, there's nothing intrinsically unloving about establishing agreements, even rules of acceptable and non-acceptable behavior. But, surely, most of us would agree that some relationship agreements (rules) amount to a kind of abuse which is unloving. Some partners feel they have a right to limit who (or what sex of person) one may choose as a close friend! How loving is that?!? Some are so possessive and fearful (insecure) that they will disallow even intimate non-sexual relationships. "You must love only me, and no others!" How loving is that? It's certainly controlling, possessive, dominating!

Most of us, if our partners insisted that we can't form other intimate freindships, would refuse to follow such a silly and absurd rule. We'd quit a relationship of that sort. But somehow most folks think it is appropriate to impose limitations on HOW we can express or experience love and intimacy with others. We typically do this, I believe, because we secretly believe that, in order for our relationship to be "special" it must also be unique in how we experience and express affection and warmth. We don't want to lose the "specialness," and so we want to restrict our lovers in their expression and experience of intimacy with others -- by refusing them the freedom to express or experience physical intimacy. Or even, in some cases, emotional bonding!

But this "logic" doesn't work for most polyamorous folk. It seems faulty, erronious, manipulative, controlling, fearful. We'd rather trust that our partners can love others fully, however they will, so long as we are also being loved. So a major advantage, I think, of polyamory, is trust. Our trust in the love of our lovers is larger, more expansive. And we trust our love-bonds well enough to not respond with fear or anxiety if our lover also loves another--however expressed. Or, if we find ourselves feeling insecure or fearful about our lovers' love of another, we inquire within to see--well, Why? And we find that there are no good reasons to fear this additional love, so we learn, often gradually, to open up and fear less. The result, often, is growing, not shrinking love with our partners.

Nyx

07-31-2009, 01:03 AM

I've been working on possession myself; in past relationships I have hated feeling like a possession. I had a bf once who used to accuse me of sleeping with the neighbors when he would come home and I wasn't there. I also had another bf who used to freak out if I was gone at my friends house for what he thought was "too" long.

It's tough because even though I have been on the receiving end of possessive people, I can't help but have some of those tendencies myself. I have control issues and sometimes I catch myself wanting to dictate what my partner can and can't do simply because I feel left out or something.

It's important to see him for who [I]he[I] is, not some fantasy, idealistic possession. When you can see a person as the individual they are, the WHOLE person, it is easier to allow them, no - GRACE them with freedom. I can preach this all I want, putting it into practice is a little more difficult because I tend to fall back into my conditioned state of jealousy.

There is a book called "Facing Love Addiction" and if you can get over the Narcotics Anonymous type of talk in it, it has some fascinating ideas on what it means to be in a healthy relationship and steps you can take to know your true self and value yourself, indeed LOVE yourself so that you continue or re-enter a relationship in a healthy way - or decide if you should even be in the relationship.

I find it helpful because I need to know if I can continue in my own relationship with my poly bf, or leave it behind.

Quath

07-31-2009, 01:58 AM

Yes, I am looking for benefits of being mono in a poly relationship.
If you are just looking for stuff in the "Pro" section, you could try:
1) You get to be with this person you love.
2) There is a much less of an issue of cheating since he is being honest with who he is sleeping with. (That assumes the damage of cheating is the lieing, not the sex itself.)
3) You are able to be part of a larger poly family. You will have more people in your life that feel like family. You may or may not hit it off with his wife as friends. But who knows, maybe you will become good friends with someone his wife dates?
4) You know he is with you because he wants to be with you, not because he "settled" or made some committment long ago. He will not leave you for another woman because you are not limiting him. So the only reason for you two not to be together is because you have grown apart.
5) You get to go to poly meetings and act cool and hip. You can be in on the "in" jokes and have a nice scandelous story for them vanilla people. :)

XYZ123

07-31-2009, 03:23 AM

JRiver- Sorry for the misunderstanding. I have read many of your posts regarding conditioned monogamy. Maybe it's just the way they're worded or maybe it's just because so much meaning is lost in text versus one-to-one convo. I was simply worried people coming from a mono standpoint who are TRULY mono may read your posts and start thinking "What's wrong with ME for not being able to do this?" Or consider settling into a lifestyle they are not truly comfortable with. There is no better type of relationship or better pairing of one type of person versus another. There is only a good relationship in which all involved have their needs met or a bad one in which one or more partners are neglected or abused.

MonoVCPHG

07-31-2009, 07:18 AM

I was simply worried people coming from a mono standpoint who are TRULY mono may read your posts and start thinking "What's wrong with ME for not being able to do this?" Or consider settling into a lifestyle they are not truly comfortable with. .

Good work.:D

MonoVCPHG

07-31-2009, 08:05 AM

Being in a "v" is not easy.

.?

My experience is different, Gorgeous. I find our "V" to be quite easy actually. It's the other stuff that isn't easy.

River

07-31-2009, 02:48 PM

JRiver- Sorry for the misunderstanding. I have read many of your posts regarding conditioned monogamy....

Well, surely we all must recognize that there is a lot of "conditioning" we receive from the dominant culture concerning what love is and is not, and what is considered right and wrong, etc. I just shrug when I hear people in here say that their "natural" monos--as if there were a genetic basis for it or something! Some folks in here believe there are "natural monos" and "natural polys" and then there are others, supposedly, who just have to work through their conditioning to become whatever is "natural" for them.

Probably, gay people are "born that way". I've always been dual attracted (bi)--with a bit more attraction to guys, generally. And this is something we queer folk discover about ourselves, not something we decide or are conditioned into. There's a strong case for a bilogical basis for sexual orientation -- although there's a lot yet to learn about that.

But the "conditioning" we receive meant to make us into monos is simply OBVIOUS. All we have to do is pay attention to movies, radio songs, television, friends, family..., and it will be plain as day. If any of us received that much "conditioning" to ensure that we were racist or sexist, we'd probably BE that. And if we began to wake up to the fact of that conditioning, and to question those assumptions and attitudes, we'd have to work hard to get free of it, most likely. So it's not as if we have a simple neutrual choice, mono vs poly! Becoming free to love more than one person, or to bond with one who does, means swimming upstream, against a strong current.

Let's face it, polyamory is TABOO in this culture. Very. And, to my way of thinking, that taboo is an -ism like sexism, racism, heterosexism, ageism.... That is, it is a harmful kind of bigotry and ignorance. It is a form of social injustice.

But this in no way means that the reverse prejudice is valid. Monogamy, per se, is not an "-ism" of this bigoted sort. It's a relationship style choice, like polyamory.

I have never opposed monogamy in insisting that it is the default "conditioned" mode of thinking and attitude about romantic relationships. I have no gripe against monogamy or monogamists. My target is monogam-ism.

Midnight

09-24-2009, 07:46 PM

Thank you. If any other mongamous people out there are involved in a Polyamorous relationship would please share you coping strategies I would really appreciate it. I do not want to lose him. I connected with HIM and want to have a relationship with HIM. I did not sign on to have to have share him with his wife.

Hiya - just to say - I've just joined this group. My situation is I've been married 30 years, and I'm mono, but my husband appears to be poly. He's been kinda interested in others always - and I've always been threatened by it, hurt, jealous. But he never stopped loving me. I've just started getting curioius about poly, because he's fallen in love with someone. it's broken my heart, but nothing's changing so I think I gotta start facing up to it or leaving him, which I don't seem able to do.... I haven't got a lot of advice for you, as I'm just dipping my toe in myself - but I am learning that you can't change what is...

Good luck xx