Long info dump vent...

[vandalin]

As I posted in my intro, I am a married mother of one with a wonderful hubby and we have a great relationship. Recently, an old friend came back into my life and this has made us consider a huge change in our lives, polyamory.

This may sound a bit like a dumping but I hope this post helps me figure some things out and maybe get some good advice or encouragement which seems to be profound in this forum.

So a little over two months ago, an old friend, one I had never been that close to but always had a warm feeling for, let me know that he has had a "crush" on me for almost as long as he'd known me, starting from grade school in fact. After this revelation we started talking on a nightly basis, about our lives and things but also about more personal things including what if scenarios of "if we were both single" or "if I showed up at your door right now". These turned into very intense sexual conversations but I had known before these happened that I really did care about this man, I just wasn't sure as to the extent. Through this whole time I am telling my hubby that I was having these conversations, downplaying the details of course and was surprised at first that he didn't have a problem with it in fact he encouraged it as it seemed to help our almost non-existent sex life (main reason we are going to couples counseling). One night, I half-jokingly suggested starting a "harem". And then I remembered some of the books I'd read being a sci-fi/fantasy nut (Friday bring the main recall) and realized that maybe this was a viable possibility. When I mentioned it to my hubby, he thought about it and then said, lets see what happens, figure out how it would work. When I mentioned it to, as I had thought of him, my online bf, he wasn't sure if I was serious but after telling him I was, he was also very interested in findng out more.

The next month was spent chatting and researching, and for me on a roller coaster ride controlled by the online bf. Slowly he started to pull away from the idea but not from me. Basically as soon as a real relationship became a possibility, he started doubting and I think pushed himself more into a relationship he had just started in RL. I'm not saying he forced his new relationship to go faster or be more serious, but all of a sudden he's "in a relationship with ***" and I hadn't noticed it until I go out on a limb and tell him how I was really feeling, that I had basically fallen in love with him and that I really hoped he would give us (him and me) a chance at the least.

He had twice said that he wasn't sure he could be poly, even though he would have been a mono in a poly, I understood his meaning to be that he wasn't sure he would be able to share me. Unfortunately we never really discussed it. He would tell me how he felt and then I would just let him continue on talking, without asking or discovering or telling him my side or opinions. Then we finally had the chance to meet face to face for the first time in over 10 years. (We live in separate states but I have friends and family where he lives.) We got together at my hotel room one night and again he told me that he just didn't think he could live poly and be true to himself. Now, I honestly have no problem with that statement, but when followed by an intense snogging session, you have to agree that I'd be a bit confused.

We both are romantically and physically attracted to each other, and we have both professed being in love with each other, yet he has chosen to hold back. I know that the sudden outpouring of emotions on both of our sides may have led to saying things that were not thought out properly on his part, but that doesn't make it hurt any less. In a way, he opened me up to the wonderful possibilities of this lifestyle just to say, "sorry, can't do it now."

At present we are working on just being friends which is what we have always wanted at the very least. We have a special connection that has kept bringing us back into each others lives even at 400 miles away so I know that our friendship will become even stronger as time goes on and I do wish him luck in his current relationship. Part of me wants to be angry with him for "leading me on" but looking back, he didn't really do that, not on purpose at least. We had made no promises to try to make it work, only to see if and how it could work, but I fear that my own heart had put too much hope into this working and not enough preparation for failure. We finally had a discussion a couple days ago and got most things straightened out including some agreements/boundaries such as "if you say 'I love you' it has to include 'my friend'" and "no open ending statements like 'I just can't be in that kind of relationship right now'"

So now I have a broken heart as in essence he dumped me, yet I have a wonderful husband who is willing to hold me and comfort me through this pain, and I love my husband even more for that.

Except for this one time, I had never really thought of trying a poly relationship, and I'm not sure if I want to actively pursue one. I never liked the dating scene but love NRE (which may be to blame for the original fiasco). I don't want many lovers, only a small group, three, four at the most although that may even change in the future. But maybe it's because I am hurting right now that I don't want to try to find anyone else at present. All I wanted was to share my life with my husband and my online bf.

Well, thank you for letting me vent a little(lot). Putting it together like this has helped a little I think, although I think I'm going to need another dose of my anxiety meds soon. :P I know that there really wasn't any questions in there but any input is always appreciated. Thanks again. ~Van

[Quath]

I am sorry your friend did not think he could accept polyamory. It does seem to have let you understand more about yourself.

I think many people are more comfortable with monogamy with a side of adultery than with straight out polyamory. Probably it is because one is common and familiar as seen in many movies, TV shows and books. However, polyamory is still new enough that it has to be explained. Heinlein is a rare exception to this. :)

[NeonKaos]

I am sorry your friend did not think he could accept polyamory. It does seem to have let you understand more about yourself.



I identify with most of what the OP said (except for her marriage - the part about couples counseling doesn't apply to my situation), especially as in the above quote from Quath.

My "other" guy seemed to believe that something was fundamentally wrong with my relationship with my husband that I should even CONSIDER any sort of "poly" arrangement, but it has actually made our marriage stronger.

[vandalin]

Thanks for the input

So far, our opening up to the possibility of a poly relationship has also had positive impact of our own relationship. We have always had great communication skills, but I think we are both feeling even more open with each other recently.

In fact my husband had a break-through this week with one of the issues/questions he was having. "If she is giving love to someone else, am I getting any less?" Being logically minded he did the "calculus" and discovered that love is not a zero-sum game. Love is infinite. And this epiphany has opened him up to the idea of poly even more because he wants me to be happy and sees that he really isn't losing anything in the process.

And on another note, my friend? He and his girlfriend broke up. I'm proud to say that I'm not doing a happy dance (score one for compersion), but again, there is that little kernel of hope that maybe, just maybe, he might lean my way again...in time, of course. ;)

[Quath]

Being logically minded he did the "calculus" and discovered that love is not a zero-sum game. Love is infinite.
That is the way that I tend to process my feelings. I work to line them up with some kind of logical thinking. I work through a lot of hypotheticals until I identify what is really bugging me.

One big learning experience was finding out that everyone deals with emotions differently. (Not wrong, but different.)

And on another note, my friend? He and his girlfriend broke up. I'm proud to say that I'm not doing a happy dance (score one for compersion), but again, there is that little kernel of hope that maybe, just maybe, he might lean my way again...in time, of course.
Heh. I wish you luck. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

We finally had a discussion a couple days ago and got most things straightened out including some agreements/boundaries such as "if you say 'I love you' it has to include 'my friend'" and "no open ending statements like 'I just can't be in that kind of relationship right now'"



This is a great and healthy idea! Vagueness in communication can sometimes be as detrimental as not communicating at all. I personally think clarity is paramount, especially in polyamorous friendships/relationships. :D

Take care

[Mark1npt]

Quath and Mono speak the truth! Learn (more and deeper about yourself) and practice the love and communication needed to make this work. Of course, we have to have partners/lovers willing to go this extra mile with us...

[vandalin]

this would be an extra 400 miles :(

But we shall see, only the future know what it holds.

[vandalin]

I think, if the mods and fellow members don't mind, I'm going to start using my thread here to help me focus my thoughts and get things out that at this point I am only sharing with my hubby. We are not "out" yet as there isn't anything to be "out" about... yet. So I will post short updates occasionally, similar to Mono's Sharing Success & Happiness thread.

Wow! So I talked to my hubby "Cajun" tonight and told him of my fears and desires now that my love interest "Elric" is single again. Cajun told me to ask Elric out. I said it was too soon, they just broke up Wednesday! Plus, he's still not sure how you really feel about all of this. Cajun then tells me to ask him out and tell Eric that he told me to. So I did...and he said yes! Can I feel any more like a giddy high school girl? Elric even said that Cajun was right, he felt more comfortable accepting because my hubby told me to ask. He thought it was kinda strange, my husband essentially playing matchmaker, and I was honest and told him that Cajun just wants me to be happy and he sees how I am when we have our good conversations (the non drama convos).

So now we have to figure out the logistics of said First Date. We are 400 miles apart after all. But in the meantime, I'm going to bask in this moment of happiness and success. :D And hope it doesn't come crashing down around me. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst!

[Quath]

Enjoy the NRE!

[Mark1npt]

That's wonderful Vandalin. Hope you two can deal with the distance successfully. Good luck! Oh yeah....the NRE.......ain't it grand?

[foxflame88]

Good luck! I hope this works out well for you! I too am dealing w/ a long distance relationship. It isn't easy, but the best things are worth working for. :)

[vandalin]

Enjoy the NRE!

Ohh I am! :D

And thanks for the vote of confidence. I know everything won't get figured out on one date, but maybe he'll see that it might just be worth a try.

[vandalin]

So, first portion of the weekend away...didn't go as well as it could have, but definitely made some headway. "Elric" and I met up and talked for a few hours and then met up with "Cajun", our daughter and my mom for dinner.

I'll start with the main problem...my mom was with us. She knows nothing about what is going on yet. So it was kinda difficult, when my men finally got to meet for the first time to have sort of conversation about what the three of us were really thinking about. Good thing it was dinner and we could be kept busy by feeding our faces. :P But at least they didn't take an instant dislike to each other.

On the other hand, he and I made some headway this afternoon. We actually had a chance to discuss things. Up until now it was always just talking TO each other, this time we actually talked WITH each other. We did a lot of discussing on things we had said before so that we could really understand what was going on in our minds and hearts. I learned things about him and he learned things about me. His current concerns are valid, but they aren't anything that cannot be dealt with, especially with time, patience and communication.

We unfortunately had to stop as we had to go meet up with my hubby (and mom) for dinner, but I will be seeing him again on Monday as well as Tuesday night, before I head back home Wednesday...and a lot can happen between now and then.

Of course, the one thing that I had confirmed for myself is how I feel about him, and that I would do a lot, wait and/or "date" him as long as he needed for us to have a chance to be together.

On a positive thought, he didn't seem to want to let go of our hug at the end of the night. ;)

[vandalin]

It's over.
It's done.
My heart is in pieces.
Now I go home to my husband to start to heal.

[redsirenn]

I am very sorry things did not work out how you hoped.

[Mark1npt]

So sorry to hear that Vandalin. If there's one thing I've noticed so far in this poly life it's that there really needs to be just the right set of people and the right set of circumstances for it to all work out. Of course that's always been the way in a conventional relationship as well, just seems all the more difficult in poly. I hope you heal soon and find the one you're looking for. Keep loving!

[MonoVCPHG]

Sorry Vandalin..here is something I just wrote on another thread. Not that it will take your pain away but your friend sounds very mono to me.

As a mono person I can pretty much guarantee we develop differently. I doubt that the pairings your ex had were any more loving but they probably came with a sense of security whether artificial in her cases or not. It's just nice for a mono person to know or at least think they are enough for the person they love.

All of us have to admit that polyamory fills a void, completes ones ability to love or expands it. It's not all about "I have so much love to give" it's more about "I need more Love".

To a mono person, this hurts on a primal level. It can either be overcome by the degree of love in the relationship or it will be too much and they must go their separate ways to remain healthy.

I have always said I would almost never recommend a monogamous person get involved with a poly person and I stand by that. I have a wonderful relationship with Redpepper and yet I know I would not seek out or accept the love of another poly person if we were not together.


If you don't have the capacity to intimately love more than one person it is very hard to accept it in your partner.

Nothing can take away some pain such as a break up except for time, time and more time.

I hope you feel better soon Vandalin..take care

[vandalin]

He loves me as a friend, he is sexually attracted to me, but he doesn't feel that he loves me romantically. Nothing was brought up about the poly-ness of a future relationship although I know that was in the back of his mind.

Thank you, all of you, for your kind words. They mean a lot to me. Thank you.

[Quath]

I am sorry it didn't turn out so well. Will just being friends, maybe even sexual friends, be something you would want?

I could say something about other fish in the sea, but that is so cliche when your heart is hurting. Try to do stuff to get your mind off of this and let time heal some of this pain.

[redpepper]

Ahhh, vandolin :( I'm so sorry it didn't work out.... hope you are getting lots of lovin' from your hubby.

[XYZ123]

Awww. I'm sorry this didn't work out the way you'd hoped. I'm glad your hubby is there to help with the healing.

[foxflame88]

((hugs)) I too recently went through a break up. It hurts.

[Barry]

[QUOTE=vandalin;2575]
Through this whole time I am telling my hubby that I was having these conversations, downplaying the details of course and was surprised at first that he didn't have a problem with it in fact he encouraged it as it seemed to help our almost non-existent sex life (main reason we are going to couples counseling). One night, I half-jokingly suggested starting a "harem". And then I remembered some of the books I'd read being a sci-fi/fantasy nut (Friday bring the main recall) and realized that maybe this was a viable possibility. When I mentioned it to my hubby, he thought about it and then said, lets see what happens, figure out how it would work.

It is unfortunate that the relationship did not work out as you hoped it would. But the one thing that jumps out at me is the fact that both you and your husband came alive with the "poly-possibility." The fact that you two agree on that could well be a solid foundation for a very exciting and love filled future.

Barry

[vandalin]

Will just being friends, maybe even sexual friends, be something you would want?

Personally I might not mind so much, but it would be one-sided on the emotion front. I love him as a friend and romantically while he is telling me that he loves me as a friend and is physically attracted to me, but says that he does not love me romantically. He says we have a special connection, that he doesn't want to be in a relationship where he doesn't feel a romantic connection...and the circles are going around and around.

I haven't had a chance to talk to him again as I just got home last night, spent the night in a hotel room with my hubby to get that wonderful safe feeling that I was missing all day, and just finally got back to our house. I plan on starting in depth email conversations with him especially my mind is not recalling everything that was said. Sometime my brain retains the written word better than the spoken word.

Through all this, I know there is something still missing. Something he is not telling me. I know he is not seeing anyone else although there is a gal he may be interested in, he was pretty certain that he didn't want to start a full-time relationship with anyone until his other issues are dealt with.

So now to try to get to the bottom of things again, perhaps it will be easier for him to be fully honest with that 400 mile barrier again.

[MonoVCPHG]

Personally I might not mind so much, but it would be one-sided on the emotion front. .

That statement alone should be a warning to you. You sound like a person who attaches emotions to sex in a deep way. If kissing caused confusion and mixed messages imagine what having intercourse will do. You don't want to end up feeling used in this.

I'm not saying give up but know when to salvage what you can and move on.

Sorry if this is blunt, take care.

[vandalin]

Blunt can be good and needed at times. When thinking about the idea of a one-sided sexual relationship, or even just one time together, I am reminded of a Bonnie Raitt song, I can't make you love me. If he was being completely honest with me about his feelings and not just trying to "protect" one or both of us, then this song would be exactly what it would be like and I feel that I could move on afterwards, stop the fight, and on my end, I would have no problem remaining his friend.

But I really doubt he would choose to go through with it because he wouldn't want to hurt me any more than he has, which is comendable on his part and I appreciate that he is thinking of my feelings so much.

I have a bunch of questions to put to him and to get answers for, but until those come, I will have to wait patiently and just continue on. I have a wonderful husband, who took the day off to help me and make me feel safe and secure again. Now I only have to deal with the pain and a possibly nosy mother...but we shall see.

I will keep all updated though... Part of me still thinks that it's completely over and we shall always remain simply best friends. But there is still that dreamer (pipe dream perhaps) that thinks he's just hiding his true feelings for now until he feels safer to express them. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.

[MonoVCPHG]

I have a wonderful husband, who took the day off to help me and make me feel safe and secure again. .

I'm straight and I love your husband LOL! I am always amazed at the strenght of some spouses. There is no way I could do that when I was married. Hold on to him like your life depends on it:)

[vandalin]

Oh I do, so very very much. Even if we hadn't discovered my poly-ness, he is still the most wonderful man I could have found, and he also picked me...so I feel imensly lucky that he is willing to stick with me through all this. He's even willing to work with me if I find someone else if all of this turns to naught. :)

He is truly an exceptional and wonderful man. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

I know one myself..Redpepper's husband.:D

She is also a very, very lucky woman. That is why I will never let my presence hurt them. I would deny my intimate love for her if it came between them. He is the only person that I think loves her more, because he is strong enough to enjoy her love for me. Makes me sad in a way, and yet happy knowing he is always there for her.

Take care and heal well

[vandalin]

Through all of these conversations and postings I have read I have learned so much, and I have come to one very uncomfortable and disturbing conclusion...

When it comes to "Elric" I have been very selfish and manipulative. I can't go into all of the details, but I know that it is true. I have sent him an apology and now await his response.

I can only hope that I have learned from this experience and have not lost a very dear friend due to my own errors and insecurities.

Thank you all for helping me and for although inadvertently, showing me the error of my ways.

[Mark1npt]

Van, this is good.....we all are continually learning about ourselves. This is a long and winding road, to steal some Beatles mojo......what scares me is when people fail to see/learn along the way. How terrible to remain stagnant or stuck in our evolution with eachother whether friends, co-workers, lovers or family members. What a waste of our life's journey, IMO.

[AutumnalTone]

I'm not aware of my ex thinking there was anything wrong with my marriage that I'd be interested in her, too. I know she was never comfortable with identifying as poly in any fashion. That she was involved in a poly tangle wasn't something she could bring herself to admit; she told her closest friends that I'm in an open marriage and my wife knew we were dating--yet couldn't actually say it was a poly arrangement. She obviously had no problem having the relationship, just couldn't ever bring herself to identify it for what it was.

[AutumnalTone]

We aren't helped by the dearth of terms for specific types of love in the English language, are we? Where the Greeks had several, we limp along with one.

[AutumnalTone]

Matchmake, matchmaker, make me a match!

As long as you don't begin posting spam, child porn, or otherwise not playing nice, I doubt anybody's going to have an issue with your thread.

[AutumnalTone]

What? Oh, that hurts, dear lady!



(I just paid attention to the dates to find this more recent than what else I just responded to. D'oh!)

[vandalin]

I was kinda tryig to figure out what you were referring to at times... got most of them figured out though...I think. ;)

[AutumnalTone]

I use the threaded view and don't pay close attention to the dates. I was getting involved with your story, jumped to a new section of thread and suddenly found I was behind times. Sorry!

[vandalin]

No worries. At least I know someone is reading my topic again.

What were you referring to when you said "What? Oh, that hurts, dear lady!"?

[AutumnalTone]

No worries. At least I know someone is reading my topic again.

What were you referring to when you said "What? Oh, that hurts, dear lady!"?

That was in reply to:

"It's over.
It's done.
My heart is in pieces."

I was surprised at the quick turnaround because I'd just read the older part of the thread where everything was looking up. It was only when I hit that message that I thought to look at the posting dates.

[vandalin]

Ah yes, my love life is a rollercoaster and I'm still waiting to see if it will crash and burn or finally slow and settle in the station. Although all hope of "Elric" continuing as more than a friend is basically gone, but hopefully we can salvage our friendship. *crosses fingers*

[vandalin]

He talked to me tonight... *sigh*

We are friends, although we will be going slowly so he can regain his trust in me. He forgave me for my temporary insanity and said, very clearly, he can not be in a poly relationship. I think that is what I really needed to hear, those two things, and now I know that I can be "just friends" with him. All hail compersion!

[MonoVCPHG]

Don't view following your heart as temporary insanity LOL! Glad you are rebuilding a friendship and that he was clear with you. Vagueness is not much fun sometimes.

Take care!

[vandalin]

No no, the temporary insanity is where I didn't take his wishes and what he did say into account. But yes, I am very glad we are talking again. My heart is smiling again. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

Ohh...gotcha!

[redpepper]

He talked to me tonight... *sigh*

We are friends, although we will be going slowly so he can regain his trust in me. He forgave me for my temporary insanity and said, very clearly, he can not be in a poly relationship. I think that is what I really needed to hear, those two things, and now I know that I can be "just friends" with him. All hail compersion!

well this is good news... at least you will have a friend. That is better than having an ex-lover. Sometimes friends last longer.

Keep at it Vandalin. I went through many many men before finding Mono. I had given up, I remember I didn't even bother to wear deodorant as I thought it probably wouldn't work out and that he would be like the rest. I didn't bother with anything, whereas before I put a nice outfit on, wear some make up, lip gloss, fixed my hair, brushed my teeth, put hand cream on and made sure I smelled nice.... I remember seeing him and thinking, "oh shit, this is different,...... crap, I should of made an effort!" He loved me anyway, of course, because the right ones always do! :)

[MonoVCPHG]

I remember I didn't even bother to wear deodorant

WTF?! I even plucked my nose hairs...this is bullshit :D

[vandalin]

You two are awesome! I am so glad I met you and everyone else in this forum...it's nice having people of like mind to talk to and "play" with. ;)

[MonoVCPHG]

"play" with. ;)

:eek:Whoooaahh there Vandalin...whoooaaahh, I'm sure you're very nice and all but I'm so mono I can barely play with myself..err...you know what I mean...stupid keyboard always putting words in my mouth..err fingers.

[vandalin]

especially difficult for the keyboard to do when you have to hunt and peck...;)

[MonoVCPHG]

especially difficult for the keyboard to do when you have to hunt and peck...;)

well, I am quite the pecker...jeezuz! Nothing is coming out right today :mad:

[Mark1npt]

Lol Mono....I've heard that about you!

[vandalin]

So as I mentioned in my last "serious" post, Elric and I are working on being "just friends". I know that I hurt him and that he may still be a little wary of my intentions but since he initiated conversation a few days ago, I feel he is avoiding me. I know he is busy and the only time we are ever online at the same time is at night (like now). If I initiate a chat, he'll reply, but seems to just do the general chit chat, never asking questions other than "how's it going" or "how was your day" and usually it's in response to my inquires. Maybe I'm just being paranoid (different temporary insanity) or maybe it's the fact that we've gone from talking basically every night to maybe twice this week and of nothing more substantial then the pleasantries.

I'm wanting to get back to the friendship we had before too fast probably. But I hate the feeling of this ... distance? My heart was smiling a few days ago, but now it's starting to droop again. I don't think he's doing it intentionally to hurt or punish me, he's not that kind of person. I just miss him.

Sorry, guess I just needed to vent a little more. Cajun is asleep and he hears enough from me, I sometimes think, about Elric and everything else. Cajun is still willing, but I guess I'm having a hard time accepting that he's accepting of this...dang mono-societal-upbringing! I did sign up on that polymatchmaker website just to see and maybe connect with the area polys on a platonic level...we shall see how this goes.

edit: oh and he (Elric) didn't bother saying goodnight tonight and he usually has the decency to do that much. :(

[Fidelia]

Be strong, SisterWoman. Go easy and give it some time. Don't forget to breathe. This will work out. One thing I know: Everything that must be, will be.

[MonoVCPHG]

accepting that he's accepting of this...dang mono-societal-upbringing!

edit: oh and he (Elric) didn't bother saying goodnight tonight and he usually has the decency to do that much. :(

I'm sorry you are still hurting Vandalin...but some people are just naturaly Monogamous. People have to accept that as well.

I do sense some anger in your tone, please be patient and the friendship will become what it was meant to be or not to be.

Take care

[vandalin]

I do sense some anger in your tone

You are right, Mono. But I think I'm more angry at myself still than at him. I have never, EVER come this close to destroying a friendship that I valued so much. I'm trying not to punish myself or anything, but I just wish that futile wish, that things could go back to the way they were...

I know deep down to the base of my heart and soul that Elric and I have always been meant to be friends, I have never felt anything this strongly before. I just hate that it's become so hard to talk to eachother, but I will be patient, at least as patient as I can be. ;)

Thank you both. :)

[Mark1npt]

Van, it sounds like he's still wounded and trying to stay a little insulated from you right now. Can you blame him? Just let him know you're mad at yourself and not him. Let him know you'll be there if he ever wishes the old friendship back. Then just give him time. It's about all you can do and as someone already said, what will be, will be.

[redpepper]

I agree with mark. Give him some space and time. I had a similar experience where I started to get desperate not to lose someone that I talked with on line every night. I got empty messages at one point after a disagreement and was concerned for my friendship with him. He was good about telling me he needed space and time and that he was still there and present on line, but didn't want to always be talking. The best thing I did I think was to just get on with other things and drop him a line or a link I thought he would like. This seemed to ease the tension and lighten the air so that eventually we were laughing again and back to having good times. I think it gave him a chance to need me.

I can hear your heart hurting vandalin. For that I am sorry. The polymatchmaker site will get you back in the game I would think. Okcupid was good for me too. Your friendship will either work out or it won't, but at least you will be moving forward.

[vandalin]

Thanks guys. No Mark, I don't blame him one bit. I just hate the feeling of not knowing...don't we all. ;)

I have decided that I'm going back to the old taking turns. It's his turn to initiate a convo again so unless it's been days to a week, I'm not going to initiate, but I will do the link/line thing like you mentioned Redpepper.

As for getting back in the game, I'm not sure how in the game I want to be right now. Still healing from this heartbreak so I'm liking the benchwarmer position but it's good to meet some of the rest of the team (trying to stick with the sports analogy).

[Mark1npt]

Van, you just got dusted with a high and tight fastball! Pick yourself up, grab the bat and get back in the box ready to hit again! (just sticking with the sports stuff, lol):)

[Fidelia]

*hugs*

[vandalin]

thanks Fidelia. :)

[vandalin]

Here I go again...

How in the world do you move on from someone you can't, no matter what you do, get out of your head? I can't give him up as a friend and I won't give him up as a friend. I can't keep my brain busy 24/7 and even those moments when my brain is busy he just creeps back in there.

We actually went 5 days without talking. I caved finally and IM'd him today. Although we aren't back to our deep and thinking conversations (which I can understand) and it did feel a little more two sided, but not by much. :( And he did it again, he left without saying goodnight...although he may have fallen asleep at his computer (he's done that before lol).

I've been moody and mopey all weekend...and most of last week too for that matter. Hubby is wonderful and keeps trying to help but he knows there really isn't anything he can do except to be there for me. I've told him about this, how Elric is always on my brain, and he is being very understanding and isn't jealous or anything, just worried about me. And I'm kinda worried too, I've never felt this way, this strongly about anyone before.

I could probably go on for hours, but I have to shower before I go to bed and we have an early apt. tomorrow with the Couples Counselor which I get to go over all this with, so I will say goodnight. Now worries about advice or whatnot, just needing to vent a little...unless you have a sure fire way of getting the romantic love out of my brain.

[redpepper]

Ahh, poor Vandalin. I feel for you. I too have suffered many a night wondering what the heck is going on and feeling hopeless to do anything about it. :( I feel your pain. It sucks. Believe me sweets, it passes. I just looked back today as a song came on that reminded me of a love that went wrong and that ended abruptly with no communication.... I couldn't believe how I felt nothing for him anymore and how I could think of everything that happened as if it were a story rather than a huge emotional turmoil that I thought would never end. hang in there my friend. We are all rooting for you and hear for you :)

[MonoVCPHG]

Vandalin, I really feel for you but I also really think you need to let go of this somehow. He has made it clear that you can only be friends and not saying good night to you every day is pretty normal for just friends. Remember to focus on building what is possible with him and don't delude yourself into thinking he is not being honest in what he wants, sometimes you just have to trust.

I would suggest you try not to reach out for a while. This may come off as desperation or clinginess, which may push him farther away. Give it more time; let him come to you to rebuild the friendship. If he really wants to be a part of your life he will reach out himself. The ball is hypothetically in his court, let him decide to serve it or not.

[NeonKaos]

Vandalin, I really feel for you but I also really think you need to let go of this somehow. He has made it clear that you can only be friends and not saying good night to you every day is pretty normal for just friends. Remember to focus on building what is possible with him and don't delude yourself into thinking he is not being honest in what he wants, sometimes you just have to trust.

I would suggest you try not to reach out for a while. This may come off as desperation or clinginess, which may push him farther away. Give it more time; let him come to you to rebuild the friendship. If he really wants to be a part of your life he will reach out himself. The ball is hypothetically in his court, let him decide to serve it or not.


Vandalin, I was thinking exactly the same thing; thanks Mono for saving me from having to type it myself.

You know I just went through (still am) almost the same situation you did.

[XYZ123]

Oh hun. I too know this hurts from experience. I dated someone almost 9 years ago now who will always be in my heart and who I now have a very one-sided relationship with. I IM him whenever I see him online, occasionally get him to talk, and he only starts a conversation when he needs me or when he's been drinking. N knows how I feel. But the truth is, as much as the love is still there for me, all the romance has gone out of it. It just took time and the realization that I've done all I can with that relationship. As has been said before, the ball is in his court. Time, time, time. Sometimes it is all that heals the wounds.

[vandalin]

Thanks for the thoughts guys. I know what you all are saying and I am working on it. I did go 5 days without initiating contact after all and considering that's coming down from talking every night? So this time I go a longer.

It's weird because I'm not afraid of loosing him entirely as a friend, that is what we both have wanted from the beginning and we both have stated that this is what we still want...but I am afraid of not having the level of friendship that we both wanted from the beginning and that I believe we both deserve (if that makes sense).

Yes, time it will take and time I will give.

And Mono, I didn't mean that he doesn't say goodnight to me every night now. But when you are talking to someone in IM, having a conversation no matter how small talkish...wouldn't you say goodnight or at least close off the conversation? He always said goodnight whenever we are chatting unless he falls asleep which is what happened again.

I really do think he is trying. He was playful and fun when we were talking about "safe" things like the games we were playing on FB or his daughter. I honestly think he may just be worried that "evil selfish bitch" might try to make an appearance and that is what I'm trying to show to him, that she is gone and the old me is back...but without shoving it in his face.

Anyway, I will give it more time this time and with luck he will talk to me again, of his own volition, within the next few days. Thanks again for all your support guys, it is really appreciated.

[MonoVCPHG]

He was playful and fun when we were talking about "safe" things like the games we were playing on FB or his daughter.

I honestly think he may just be worried that "evil selfish bitch" might try to make an appearance and that is what I'm trying to show to him, that she is gone and the old me is back...but without shoving it in his face.

.

I love "safe" topics myself although I am uncertain what an unsafe topic would be except maybe sexuality. I must admit sexuality is not a topic that used to come up a lot with my "just" friends in the past. Now that I am in a different atmosphere it seems to be in every conversation LOL! I could definitely understand his hesitancy to talk about anything related to intimacy and sex if these are the topics you are referencing.


"evil selfish bitch" is a bit strong don't you think V? Don't be so hard on yourself.

Smile a little :D

[vandalin]

Today is day five... only a few more hours left until day six...and this is killing me.

Sorry, not meaning to drag this on and on for you guys. Just don't really have anyone else to talk to about all this. I go on and on about him to my hubby and even though he never says anything negative and will sit and listen to me drone for hours while trying to be as supportive as he can, I don't think it's fair to him to have me going on about my "friend" all the time.

I have no problem with "Elric" staying in my heart forever but I just wish sometimes that I could get him out of my head for more than five minutes at a time. No matter what I'm doing, pop! there he is again. Dishes, laundry, shopping, changing my daughter diaper for crying out loud!

Is a little normalcy in our conversations so much to ask for? Or at least knowing if this is his normal behavior with other friends or is it just with me. Just knowing that I'm not bugging him or that he wants to talk with me would do wonders.

Gotta go now. Head is hurting too much. :( Thanks for putting up with me again.

[Mark1npt]

Sorry to hear this pain is dragging on and so deep for you Van.....to a certain degree it's normal....but, you have a family, a spouse, kids, etc that should be provoding you with a good measure of happiness and fulfillment in your life....I fear this is dragging on to a depth that is not healthy for you. Eventually your very understanding spouse is gonna have enough! Maybe in some warped way, you are not at all happy with your current life and just looking for a way out????? I hate to play Freud here but on a clinical level this obsession you have with Elric is not a healthy reaction or life for you. Would you consider counseling? Sorry if this is offending, I just don't want to hear you suffering (especially in your head) anymore.

[vandalin]

Hey Mark,

Not offended at all. It actually has come up frequently lately in my counseling sessions. My husband and I are seeing a couples counselor for my libido issues (which are back to the low end again, surprise surprise) and I am seeing a psychologist for my depression and anxiety issues.

The problems I have, like last night, seem to come in cycles over the week. For the first few days after I talk to him, I'm fine. When he pops in my brain, it's more of just as a friend. Wishing we could hang out as friends instead of only online (400 miles still sucks but for different reasons now). Around day 4-5 of not talking to him, I start to get anxious, maybe he doesn't want to talk to me, maybe he is afraid of something (bad van making another appearance for example). Then by day 5-6 I'm a mess thinking that I royally messed up any chance of us having a friendship etc... then I talk to him again and I start feeling a little better again.

My inner Freud thinks that it has a lot to do with the fact that for 2+ months straight we talked almost every night. Now it has suddenly (with reason I suppose) dropped to once a week. Maybe it's withdrawals, but it would have been nice to be weened off the conversations as opposed to just dropped. Cool down period or not. As bad as I feel about my part in the whole problem, I don't think it's fair to me. I am the one with the broken heart and all, I am the one who has to accept him as just a friend, which I have for the most part (really I have).

I know that there have to be other factors affecting my mental mood swings, I am on meds for the depression (daily) and anxiety (as needed) and I finally get to go see a psychiatrist to get a better handle on the meds angle. I know I should be happy and I don't know why I'm not. I love my husband and my daughter and would not want to leave them, not permanently at least. I have wondered if just getting away for a little while (week or so) would be good for me. Not having to worry about anything except getting my own head on straight again, figuring out what is truly important to me and maybe even what I want out of life and the relationships that I have and that I want. Even thought about a mental retreat place or something once or twice (even before this whole Elric thing started).

Unfortunately the one place that I'd want to go, where I'd feel most comfortable and have someplace to be able to feel "at home" and safe for any stretch of time is 400 miles away. And that safe place used to be my "backyard"...Elric and I grew up 1 block from each other and he is currently staying at his parents house again until he saves up enough cash to get his own place again. See any problem here? Although, it would give us a better chance of sitting down and hashing out all these issues between us.

All in all, I am ready to be just a friend with Elric, but I feel I need some assurances from him that we are still friends, more so than I've been getting. Is it fair of me to ask and how can I without sounding like some obsessed ex-girlfriend. lol Ok, I am NOT an obsessed crazy ex-girlfriend! I'm just a loving friend with some doubts and insecurity issues right now and could use a little pick me up from said friend.

Sometimes, I think telepathic empathy would be nice, the ability to know when someone is thinking about you and what emotions they are feeling no matter how far away they may be. Not actual thoughts, but just whether they are feeling happy, positive thoughts or negative, annoyed thoughts, etc.

Anyways, Thanks for the input Mark. You are correct, it is not healthy and I am working on it along with a dozen other things at the same time. heh, I am good at multi-tasking, but this time I may have too much on my plate. :rolleyes:

[Mark1npt]

Glad to know you're working on it Van.......all we really have in life is our health. Everything else we have feeds off of that. Keep working at it with the counselors, meds etc.....things will surely improve for you with time and effort.

[XYZ123]

A broken heart is a broken heart, no matter what else we have in our lives to pick us up. But, it is unhealthy to be almost obsessed over a person, for whatever reason. I hope this doesn't come to hurt your relationship with your husband. That being said, Elric had a big shock from you. Maybe he is still just adjusting to the new information he has about you. Maybe he is afraid the "bad" van will come back. Maybe he's just been really really busy. But you can't know unless he wants to share what he's thinking with you. And if he doesn't, you may drive him further away by pressing the issue.
Keep working on yourself. I'm glad to hear you are. I wish you a mended heart and a more relaxed mind soon. <3

[redpepper]

I'm sure he just needs time to come down from it all, find his own normalcy again and then either contact you again or move forward with something else. It is so great you are leaving him to do this. You might never get what you want, but as I said before, your thinking about him will dissipate with time.

Going from every day to once a week is like coming off of any addiction. You are jonesing my friend... go with what I learned on Opera (about food addictions anyway,,, it might translate :o). The addictions drive only lasts 15 minutes... if you can get through that you may be able to stop yourself from IMing.

Otherwise, you always have us to write too :D we love you :)

[vandalin]

Talked to him a bit tonight (yeah I initiated). I also happened to make a comment to him that I didn't think he would get as it showed him logging off...well he did get it. "I never know if you want to chat with me or not, ya know that?" Oops, but a good oops at that. He confirmed that he does want to chat with me and he also admitted to missing our chats, it's just unfortunate that our chats normally happen late night when he is now trying to go to bed like a responsible adult. Our old chatting would go from 11pm until 2-3 am and now that he's got a decent job and trying to keep it, those hours don't work too well. ;) I think next time we chat I'll ask him how he keeps in touch with his other friends, if it's by email I'm screwed! I'm still waiting for an email he promised me back in June! :D

So between time and other things needing to get done or our mutual FB gaming addiction, I am understanding. I think I just need bi-weekly doses of Elric. lol I was actually feeling a lot better this afternoon before talking to him, so maybe this weekend's break down had more to do with my insane hormones and depression related than actually to do with him.

Like I mentioned in my last post, I don't have a problem with him popping up in my head once in a while, especially when it is in a "friends only" context and frequency, it's just when I'm trying to concentrate on other things or, let's say, trying to get it on with the hubby and he pops in my brain...that is just not a good time!

We are supposed to be seeing each other again Labor Day weekend. We are all meeting up at Bristol Ren Faire (WI) and I told him (a few times) to ask his buddies and friends to come with if he wants. We (being Cajun, baby, Ma and I) have at least one person tentatively joining us from MN and I figured that having some of his own friends around would help him feel more comfortable if needed. It's a nice social gathering where we can just have fun... and flirt -- friendly-like of course. :p

Tonight, or maybe it's most nights when I talk to him, I feel good about our friendship and that, yes, we can do this. I feel confident that we are back on the right track and things are moving forward. He really does bring out the best and the worst in me. lol

Can you tell I'm in better spirits tonight? ;)

Thanks everyone for the encouragement and gentle warnings. I do take them into consideration as they are things I have pondered myself. But for now, I bid thee goodnight and safe dreams!

PS. I'm wondering if there is any way to move majority of this thread to the Blog/Life Stories Area as this really isn't about New To anymore if the mods feel it is necessary.

[redpepper]

He confirmed that he does want to chat with me and he also admitted to missing our chats, it's just unfortunate that our chats normally happen late night when he is now trying to go to bed like a responsible adult. Our old chatting would go from 11pm until 2-3 am and now that he's got a decent job and trying to keep it, those hours don't work too well. [/SIZE]

Ah HA! there was a good reason....! makes total sense to me! :D

you do seem more content V.... I noticed right away...

see you in a week when we do it all over again... heehee, just teasing....:D:p

sounds like you are off to a good start again. One that is more healthy all around.

[vandalin]

see you in a week when we do it all over again...

Gosh I hope not! I have a big date with hubby next Saturday. We are going to see a midnight screening of Aliens (theatrical release unfortunately). Nothing would spoil that! lol

Nah, I just have to keep the reins held tight on that wretched Devils Advocate when he starts going off on me again. Giving him his head is a really really bad idea and means I'll be taking my Ativan again. :eek:

[vandalin]

Things are going much better. We have been chatting a bit more and he has actually initiated twice in the last four days. :) He even started talking to me about more personal things again which made me feel good that he is trusting me enough to do that again.

It's amazing how time seems so slow when it's happening and painful, yet it seems like only yesterday that I saw him last and we had those very difficult conversations. And it will be in just over a week that we all will be together again. :) As friends.

[MonoVCPHG]

:D:D

[vandalin]

Well it seems that about every two weeks or so I start getting all weird and emotional about this whole "affair". Maybe it is my hormones after all.

So we all got together this last Saturday at Bristol and for all intents and purposes had a good time. We (Elric and I) had a little bit of time to just us and we had a little bit of talk, but the bigger conversation happened later.

But first, I did find it strange that he went off by himself a couple times, once for almost 45 minutes. :( He didn't really have much of a reason as Cajun was chasing after our daughter most of the day and not with us really and my mom was also not with us. We did have two other friends with us, one who did his own thing or hung out with Cajun and the other who happened to arrive at the same time as Elric and hung out with he and I. I did ask Elric about his walking off and all he said was that he hadn't really thought about it until a little later when he thought he could be doing this with me instead. Well duh!

But the time that we had to ourselves was great! We chatted and flirted a bit, I challenged him twice to archery where we both won once, we talked a little about serious stuff and just had a nice time being together. There was even a semi-intimate moment which still makes my heart and stomach flutter.

So, bigger conversation... Elric joined Cajun, baby, mom and I for dinner afterwards and I drove with Elric. At first the drive was ok, a little playful banter, which is good and then silence. Surprisingly, he asked me what was up as I was so quiet. I asked him if he was afraid of me (psycho ex-girlfriend thing) or afraid of being around me. He admitted that he was a little afraid, but not of my going weird, but of how he feels. He admitted that he still is very attracted to me and that part of him, his baser part as he says, keeps telling him to go ahead. But this other part keeps saying "SHE'S MARRIED!".

We actually started getting somewhere with this conversation. It was a real give and take conversation where we were both talking calmly and rationally and no one was getting all emotional or taking over...until we got to the restaurant and my mom called to see how long we would be. :mad: We probably would have sat there for awhile just to get stuff out, but I/we couldn't keep them waiting especially since mom doesn't know (although I know she suspects something and I really should have a chat with her, but at this point I don't know what to really tell her or what I need to tell her).

I wanted to talk to him again, I had a lot that I wanted to say and ask and talk about but Sunday we were both exhausted and I had no privacy, so we said Monday. Well we didn't get home until 10:30 and I didn't get online till 11:30 and he was getting ready to crash so he promised Tuesday. I started getting sick yesterday and so sent him a message around 10:45 and apparently he didn't get online till almost midnight. So now we are at today. I have yet to hear from him in any way and I find that depressing in itself. He got my message so a note saying "ok" or "sorry to hear you are feeling crappy" would have been nice...but nothing! And he hasn't been on yet tonight either and I know I'm being self-centered or paranoid when I say this but I wonder if he's "going ninja" and trying to avoid me and the conversation.

On a positive note though, he told me that he had a date Friday night which led to sex and surprisingly I didn't really have a problem with that, well the sex at least. I do feel envious of the time he spent with her, and it was strange that when he told me, the first part (date) gave me a gut pang, but the second didn't. I suppose that could be construed as a good thing, yes?

Now I just want to talk to him again. We were finally getting past the awkwardness and talking again, not just about us but about life and things in general. I know you will probably say, he's probably just busy/tired again like last time, and part of me knows that this is probably true, but that doesn't help unfortunately, I still miss my friend very much, and I miss my almost lover even more, how could I not when he admits to wanting to be with me!

Vent vent vent vent vent... gush gush gush gush gush

Thanks for reading y'all. I should probably get ready for bed as it is 12:40 and I am tired and still recouping, slight dehydration most likely, although I want to stay up for a while longer to see if he shows... waiting for that phone call anyone? Is that pathetic or what?

[XYZ123]

Honey. It isn't pathetic to be in pain. But it is probably something you will have to let go. Expressing attraction and emotion and being able to act on that are different things. As he said, he can't help but think "she's married". If his wiring is completely against being able to handle a poly relationship, there you have the answer. Maybe he's afraid you're trying to sort of talk him into it with the continued discussions. Unless he's the one bringing them up, in which case he has to come to some sort of decision or stop confusing you in this way. But if you're the one pushing the issue, you might just be pushing him away-as a lover and as a friend. I know it's hard, but don't lose sleep over it. He'll come to his own decisions and his own comfort level. All you can do is allow him the time and space to do that.

[MonoVCPHG]

"Hopes up Warning":eek:

I think you should really focus on what's real V. What's real is that you can't accept him as just a friend and are torturing yourself with hopes he will "change".

From my stand point you expect a lot out of him as just a friend with the need for replies and good nights consistently. The idea of you being jealous of his 45 minute walks is also a warning sign. You are awfully possessive of what he does considering he is your friend.

I wish you could just enjoy his friendship and let him enjoy yours V. Careful V...don't push him away by trying to keep him closer.

Take care
Mono

[vandalin]

Thanks guys,

I know that I seem to keep repeating myself. And I'm sure you are getting tired of the broken record that is me. lol

@XYZ123: You are right about needing to let things go. Although I do bring up the questions most often, I have told him many times that if he is not comfortable with talking about it or if he just plain doesn't want me to bring it up anymore, say so. He feels that if it is something I need to talk about, he is ok with that. I do my best to not make it seem like I'm trying to change his mind, since that is not the purpose to my questions. The purpose is solely to understand and he is all for that. And I don't bring up the deep issues every time we talk either, I usually give him some notice too so he has a chance to say, I really don't feel up to talking about that tonight/right now. We are honest with each other. It is not an imagined honesty or a protective honesty either.

@Mono: I'm sorry if you got the impression that I was jealous of the 45 minutes away. It was more just concern. When you set up to go somewhere with a friend or friends, as a group, wouldn't you think that you would do things together? If it was, "Hey I'm gonna go catch this show while you guys do whatever, meet up with you over here later" it would not have been a concern. Even "I'm gonna go wander while you do this" would have been great, but all we (I wasn't the only one there after all) got was, "I'll be back in a bit, meet you at this spot." So, maybe it sounds like I'm justifying my thoughts, but I wasn't the only one to wonder where he had been gone to for so long, and it was our friend who suggested I call him to see where he went.

As for the goodnight and replies... So maybe you hang up the phone without saying goodbye and you don't reply when a friend sends you a message saying that they can't stick around any longer for a chat that was supposed to happen because you aren't feeling well... I say goodnight and would reply, and most of my friends do as well. I do expect these things from him because as a friend he had done that before the whole poly thing was brought up. When there is a change in a person's normal behavior, don't you wonder why? If your normally cheerful friend comes up to you all frowning, don't you ask what's up? If someone who normally answers the phone with "Hey!" suddenly starts answering with "Hello." wouldn't you find it strange? People, especially friends, have certain quirks and habits that we get used to and when they start doing things differently, we have the right and responsibility to ask if everything is ok, especially if they are our friends.

I really am trying to be careful not to push him away. And I know that if I start pushing he WILL let me know. He has before when he felt pressured back when it was evil me. And yes, my hopes are going up and down, some due to unfinished conversations but I think most due to hormones...there does seem to be a pattern to these rants of mine.

Do I hope he will change his mind? I'd be lying if I said no. Am I going to actively try to change his mind? No. We are still going to discuss things because he has confusions as much as I do, it's not black and white for him either, and if in the process things change, woohoo. If not, we have a stronger friendship because we understand each other better. He says he feels the same way about this as I do. He has said that only time can tell whether his feelings about being in a poly relationship will change. Am I waiting for this to happen? Perhaps a little. I admit it. Currently, I can't see myself out looking and trying to find someone to be a part of our family. The whole reason I and we are even here is because of how he and I feel about each other. But I am not holding my breath anymore and I am doing my best not to let this affect my normal every day life.

Can I accept him as just a friend. Yes. I already do. That doesn't mean that I can't hope for more. Hope for the best, prepare for the worst. The best in this case would be a real attempt at a relationship with him. The worst would be we settle into a nice comfortable friendship. Neither of us can imagine not having the other in their life.

The facts as they currently stand: He is attracted to me. He would love to have a relationship with me. He is afraid of his jealousy getting in the way and poisoning my marriage. He has certain views of marriage, applicable or not, that are confusing him because he "shouldn't" feel this way or have these thoughts about a married woman. These are things he wants to talk about with me. We both enjoy intelligent and philosophical discussions like this and if it helps him to solidify his thoughts an emotion, in either direction, then some good has come out of it.

Anyway, I'm off for now. Still recouping and am supposed to go to my Thursday group tonight.

Thank you both, and I really do take your words seriously and your opinions to heart, whether I agree or not. ;)

[NeonKaos]

The worst would be we settle into a nice comfortable friendship. Neither of us can imagine not having the other in their life.


I beg to differ. The "worst" would be having a "relationship", things don't work, and not being in each others' lives at all.

The "nice comfortable friendship" to me seems like the best scenario.

This looks like a case of "you can't always get what you want, but sometimes you can get what you need".

You need to think about the glass that is half-empty and half-full, both at the same time.

I wish I could go back a few months and take my own advice, as well as some of the others' I've read here.

[vandalin]

I know that the worst really is that we can't be friends...but my gut, my true instinct says that that won't happen, and whenever I listen to it, it doesn't lead me astray.

Maybe my hubby "spoiled" me in a sense. Before we got married, he had broken up with me telling me that he just could not see us married. Ok, my husband said that. Obviously something changed. 10 months later we were back together, 7 months later we were living together again, a year and a few months later engaged and 8 months after that married. Perhaps that has put on some rose-tinted lenses when it comes to Elric. Give him time and understandinig and whatever conversation or discussions we want and need from eachother and we shall see what happens. Or maybe I can't get what I want, but he is someone I need in my life, so on that count you may be completely correct. But given time, who knows what can happen.

[vandalin]

All righty! Feeling pretty good right now, and only time will tell (and hormones I suppose)

Elric and I had probably the best conversation of all our attempts. He has felt that he was going in circles telling me the same thing over and over, which in a way was true but with different reasons for what he was telling me. But he was telling me over and over because I never really had my chance to say what I needed to say. That finally happened last night.

We set up a meet time and started talking at 10pm and talking and talking and talking back and forth, give and take, a real dialogue between us that lasted for almost 5 hours! I was able to respond to things he has said in the past and to also get a lot of feelings and questions off of my chest and he was able to respond to both. There were hard times and joking but the important thing is that I think I finally said what I needed to say and got what I needed from him.

He was able to explain his feelings better and I got a look into his mind and heart as I hope he got a look into mine. He does love me as a friend but he has "let go" of trying/wanting to love me as more. I'm not saying that it doesn't hurt, but it's not the searing pain of my earlier broken heart.

When we finished the conversation and said good night I even had a bit of a smile on my face, perhaps knowing that yes, I can move on now.

Now I can only hope that my hormones and other chemicals don't get in my way. :rolleyes: Now I think I can finally put some of this behind me and start working on my other problems...one thing off my over flowing plate, lets see what's next.

I'm looking forward to see where our friendship takes us. He is one of the best friends I have ever had and although I am sad that it probably will never be more than that, I truly feel I can be content with that. I say probably because you never can know if things will change, not that I'm hoping really, just saying, anything is possible. ;)

[MonoVCPHG]

This is fantastic Vandalin!! Hold on to that healthy connection and just let life roll. Great news :)

[vandalin]

Thanks Mono, I really have a good feeling about it this time.

[XYZ123]

That's great. Sometimes you need that closure.

[vandalin]

I hate my hormones!!!!! I think they are trying to F with me again and let loose my devils advocate. I have no rational reason to think anything has changed or gone wrong. Elric and I are still supposed to get together for dinner Thursday night (did I mention that in a post somewhere) but spending this week by myself is really hard. I had expected it but you know how you can never truly prepare for some things, well this is one of those things for me. He is the only person in the area that knows I'm here again and I wonder if I do that on purpose...other than not wanting to have to explain to anyone else why I'm here in IL without my husband or daughter or both, staying at a hotel alone... And my brain is going a thousand miles a minute and today Elric has been popping into my mind about every 25-30 miles in both guises as friend and as a man I love! GAH!!! Really need to go take some Tylenol or something. Sorry, had to rant a little. Thanks for listening.

[MonoVCPHG]

I worry about you V. You seem to put yourself in situations that confuse you. Hope you are doing OK.

[vandalin]

lol, thanks Mono. I worry about myself sometimes too. I'm doing better today at least, it really is a day by day thing for me. I have a psych appointment at the end of the month to re-evaluate my meds so hopefully that will help and make things more of a week by week or month by month thing instead of a day by day thing. ;)

The purpose of being alone this week is to work on myself. What I want and need. Where do I want to go with my life and etc. I came here specifically because I feel safe and comfortable at this hotel and as it is next to the town I grew up in I know the area. Plus my Marsh is here which is where I finally will be able to go spend some time at today and just sit and relax and think and write.

If you are concerned about the dinner tomorrow night, I am too, but not. I am more worried about trying to get through the evening without any of our usual drama. That is the whole purpose, to get together with a friend and hang out. This is a good thing, really. Confusing, a little, but without the moving on in our friendship and seeing that we can just hang out as friends, I'd be in a much worse mental and emotional position.

Ok, I have to go eat and get my stuff together for my Marsh visit. But I'll be back, probably Friday at least to let you all know how dinner went. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

Sounds good.

Take care

[vandalin]

So tonight sucked. I'd had a feeling all day that this evening was gonna be disappointing and I was right, but not the way I expected at all. So I get a call from Elric after he leaves work which is when he is supposed to be coming over. Instead he's on his was to the hospital cause his dad had to have emergency surgery. He's doing ok thankfully. Elric feels bad since he did want to see me and now instead of having time to talk and whatever I get to see him for his lunch break tomorrow since I'm picking up Cajun at the airport tomorrow night.

And yes, I am glad his dad is doing ok and that he spent the time with his family, but I am very disappointed and envious since this was supposed to be our time and I probably won't be back in town until December.

I just have one last thing to say... Elric's and my timing must SUCK!!! I swear "destiny" or "fate" or whatever just don't want us hanging out even.

[MonoVCPHG]

"destiny" or "fate" or whatever just don't want us hanging out even.

Just trust in them V. I'm sure they have your welfare in mind when they throw curve balls...I know that doesn't help but I'll give you a smile too :) there..that's better!

[vandalin]

Thanks Mono. :) I think I get what you are saying.

And I really appreciated what you had to say in your last topic start. It really has me thinking again about things I have to work on. I really want to be a part of Elrics life even if it just as a friend. I know I can do it, I just have to do some work on myself first I think. So maybe it's a good thing that we won't see each other again until December, and even that is a maybe. Hopefully in the next couple of months I can get my head in the right place and in line with my heart. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

There is no one person in this world that doesn't have something to work on V. It's a part of being human. :)

[vandalin]

How true that is.

He's coming by today after work...or at least that is the plan. I'll know for sure in the next 15 minutes. :) I'll let you know all the juicy detail. ;P (yeah like there are going to be any. lol)

[vandalin]

Well, like I feared, no juicy details.

He was unable to come after work as he had an appointment which he had forgotten about. We did talk for about 30 minutes on the phone on his way to the appointment. He really does feel bad about missing out on getting together with me and that he was afraid I was thinking he was avoiding me, which he assured me that he wasn't.

But Cajun's flight came in on time and we spent the rest of the weekend together and had a nice time and an uneventful drive back home.

Who knows where this is going to go now. Maybe I'll start a new chapter as I think I am feeling like a border or wall has been placed between the past and the present and future of our (Elric & my) relationship. But that is probably a very good thing. :) I see that border as "what's passed is past, time to start working on the future."

So, to the future! *cheers*

[redpepper]

good on you Vandlin... sounds like it's time. Who knows what doors will open now.

[vandalin]

I hate curve balls. So here I was, feeling better about everything and he goes and f's everything up for me again. Ok, so partially my doing as well but as I'm the one who wants the relationship to be more than friends and he just wants to be friends I'd hope he would be the one to say "stop, boundary crossing"...but no.

I went to IL again to visit with another friend who thought she was going into early labor. I let Elric know I'd be down there and we set up plans to get together. My friend, who then finds out she's not in labor, is just fine and I spend most of the weekend in my hotel, fine by me.

So at this point, I'm about 7 weeks pregnant, had some bleeding and the Dr. said, no sex, no orgasm, no penetration, etc. for at least 2 weeks. Elric came over Friday night and we hung out and watched an episode of a tv show on my laptop that he was telling me about. Ok, so maybe I should not have worn the low cut sweater that hugged my ample chest, and maybe he should not have been running his hand up and down my arm for the whole hour of the tv show. Long story short, we end up on the bed fooling around, of course he got a little more out of it than I did as neither of us wanted to hurt my baby. But for me, it was amazing anyway. He said things which the next day (no he didn't spend the night even though I offered as it was late) he amended, didn't take back, just explained what he meant better.

Sunday was horrible for me. I think he was feeling guilty at not being able to contain himself Friday night that he needed to explain and justify how he felt about me again and again. But I am having a serious issue with his words when all of his actions say the opposite.

So, here I was, trying to get past what happened and what will 99% sure will never happen again no matter how much I want it to, and my pregnancy lays me out for almost an entire month and a half with exhaustion. It took me two days to drive home and I crashed the moment I got there and stayed that way for the next few weeks. And of course, with all this time on my hands and not even the energy to log onto my laptop, what am I going to do? Think about Elric and what happened and what it means and etc... :confused:

I try to bring it up again, when I'm finally able to try to ask him about it, he brushes me off by saying he hasn't even had time to think about it and what he has said is what he means, no matter how his body and impulse may have betrayed that. He feels shame and remorse for accidentally making me think he wanted more than he says. Then he goes on to say that he feels hurt that I have to keep bringing it up and that I'm not validating his feelings.

At that point I basically go off on him in IM (where we do most of our actual talking). He comes back and says that he has to log off for a while before he has an anxiety attack but we will talk about it later after we have cooled down. After spending the next several hours crying in Cajun's arms, I sent Elric an email telling him, "I am done." That I just couldn't do this anymore, not only because of the stress it was causing me and now my baby, but because I did not want to loose our friendship and I could feel the tension and anger trying to rip it apart.

And this time, I will follow through to the best of my abilities. If we are ever alone together, I will do my best to keep my boundaries in tact even if he can't.

Now, I am trying to mend that re-torn heart and decide, once again, what do I really want and need to make me happy. What I fear the most right now is that I am truly the type of person where absence makes the heart grow fonder, and with each passing day I just miss him more and more, even though we talk on line. I want to spend time with him to get used to him in a friendship status again as I had started after my week in IL. I would be happy just getting this intense feeling to decrease to a simple crush if I could but I don't know how to do that without being around him.

And then, to cap it all off, Cajun takes me out to a really nice dinner for V-Day and even showed his rare romantic side by having some roses waiting at the restaurant for me. Being pregnant has started limited my clothing choices so he picks out that sweater that I wore the last time Elric and I were together. I thought, no problem. Boy was I wrong. I feel so guilty that my mind kept wandering to Elric and I could feel his hand on my arm all night! The guilt is truly from the fact that I am still wishing for more and that even for just one night, I couldn't not think of Elric. This was supposed to be a nice romantic evening for Cajun and me, and although is was nice and romantic, it was still dampened by my constant wayward mind and heart.

No advice really needed here. I guess I just needed a good venting which I haven't really been able to do. Thanks for reading though and if you want to comment or advise, feel free.

[MonoVCPHG]

No advice really needed here. I guess I just needed a good venting which I haven't really been able to do. Thanks for reading though and if you want to comment or advise, feel free.

No advice..just a friendly sigh of concern for you.

Congrats by the way :)

Peace and Love
Mono

[vandalin]

Thanks Mono. I figured you'ld be one of the first with the sympathetic head shaking. :) What sucks was that I really was doing better, and the the fit hit the shan. Now it's time to wait and see what my heart will do to me next. lol

Love really is grand, when it doesn't suck.

[MonoVCPHG]

Love really is grand, when it doesn't suck.

Haha!

I don't know if you ever read this post of mine....it might be worth reading to see if anything can be applied.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=919

You can completely love some one without their participation or even knowledge. It's a matter of getting past the physical methods of sharing that love in my opinion. Once there, anything else like touch is a huge additional gift and avenue to communicate love but not a necessity to be healthy.

[vandalin]

You can completely love some one without their participation or even knowledge. It's a matter of getting past the physical methods of sharing that love in my opinion. Once there, anything else like touch is a huge additional gift and avenue to communicate love but not a necessity to be healthy.

This really does strike a note for me, Mono, thank you. And I think this is where I am trying to get to, the point where I can love Elric without feeling the need to be with him physically (sexually or location-ly).

I will take a look at your post later today as I have to get up and ready for an early and longish day. I can't believe I'm actually up this early! lol

[MonoVCPHG]

This really does strike a note for me, Mono, thank you. And I think this is where I am trying to get to, the point where I can love Elric without feeling the need to be with him physically (sexually or location-ly).

I will take a look at your post later today as I have to get up and ready for an early and longish day. I can't believe I'm actually up this early! lol

If I can help anyone even a little with any of this then my day is good!

Take care

[vandalin]

Haha!

I don't know if you ever read this post of mine....it might be worth reading to see if anything can be applied.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=919

You can completely love some one without their participation or even knowledge. It's a matter of getting past the physical methods of sharing that love in my opinion. Once there, anything else like touch is a huge additional gift and avenue to communicate love but not a necessity to be healthy.

I remember reading this previously but I did read it over again as I am in a different state of mind now than I was then. It really struck me again and I do hope that I can bring that little piece inside me to the front to tell me when to stop before it becomes too unhealthy. I think that it has started to try harder, with the "I'm Done" email, but still remains quiet on a day to day basis and whenever Elric pops up in my mind.

I also want to try to get to that point where I don't have/want/need to physically express my love for him, but I think that will come in time and with in person interaction. I think that the more we are around each other without anything sexual happening, the more I will be able to separate the physical and the emotional.

Thank you Mono, as always you seem to know just what I need to hear, whether I want to or not. :o

Recently Elric and I decided that we both wanted to restart our old "chats" and be friends with "cyber-benefits" and I am ok with that. It has not made me pine after him more than I have been plus I get to express the "physical" desires I have for him in a safe and comfortable way to him. We both know and accept that we have a serious physical attraction for each other and this is how we have decided to try to alleviate those tensions.

On another note, he met a gal over the weekend and that has my emotions all over the board. I knew it would happen sooner or later as he is (to me for sure) a very attractive man. So I get to be his friend and his NRE sounding board, he was still smiling today when we texted...two days later. There relationship is still in the tentative phase, they may have a first date this weekend and who knows. Until he gets into a serious relationship with someone, he and I are alright with continuing to have "chats" which at this point are rare anyways due to his roommate issues.

I want him to be happy with all my heart. I wish I could be the one to make that happen, but I am finally starting to accept that it will not be me. If this gal is the one to do it, I hope he takes it slowly and doesn't rush anything as that lovely NRE makes one wont to do. If she is not, I hope that neither is hurt too badly and that he continues to try to find happiness...even if it is not with me.

I do believe that, most of the time. I just wish it didn't hurt as much. :o

[MonoVCPHG]

Recently Elric and I decided that we both wanted to restart our old "chats" and be friends with "cyber-benefits" and I am ok with that. It has not made me pine after him more than I have been plus I get to express the "physical" desires I have for him in a safe and comfortable way to him. We both know and accept that we have a serious physical attraction for each other and this is how we have decided to try to alleviate those tensions.




Tough questions V...feel free not to read at all.

This is just my opinion Vandalin so take it with the knowledge that I am genuinely concerned for you.

What you describe above is probably not a way to create that healthy relationship you are looking for. What this will probably do is build up a fevered pitch in excitement that inevitably one or both of you will get caught up in and then you are back to square one. I'm getting a clear picture of the mixed signals you are being sent by him and am merely stating my observation that there is something missing here. You are fulfilling his needs. That seems to be the end of the cyber benefits. Have you asked yourself if he will still be so interested when and if he does become involved heavily with another woman for himself? Do you think she will be ok with his cyber visits?

I can't help but think you are setting yourself up V. I want you healthy for real. Personally I think you are doing whatever it takes to hold on to a part of him that really isn't yours.

Take care V....sorry if I hurt you with this.
Peace and Love
Mono

[vandalin]

Tough questions V...feel free not to read at all.

This is just my opinion Vandalin so take it with the knowledge that I am genuinely concerned for you.

Firstly, Mono, I will always read what is said here. We are all entitled to our opinions and observations and there is always the possibility that any one of them could be right, or any multitude applicable.

Secondly, I really do appreciate your concern and I do see why. I have thought of most of these questions, which I will explain, and the ones I haven't I will comment on. But know that I am not taking these concerns lightly and some of them I have even discussed with both Elric and Cajun.

What you describe above is probably not a way to create that healthy relationship you are looking for. What this will probably do is build up a fevered pitch in excitement that inevitably one or both of you will get caught up in and then you are back to square one. I'm getting a clear picture of the mixed signals you are being sent by him and am merely stating my observation that there is something missing here. You are fulfilling his needs. That seems to be the end of the cyber benefits.

Until I got into my relationship with Cajun, cyber was a big thing for me. As I've mentioned, I'm not big on the whole dating scene and this was a way for me to express myself sexually without exposing myself (in more than one way). When I cyber, I am an actress, a roleplayer. Like a movie, I know it is fantasy. The only difference between that time and the present is that my old cyber habits were more like one night stands. With Elric, I admit, there have been occasions where I wondered if what he was saying was also valid in RL, and in a way it is. As I mentioned we are both very sexually attracted to one another and even he would have, at one point, loved to have had a sexual relationship with me. But he is not comfortable with having a physical relationship with a married woman, even with Cajun's "permission".

I feel we are both getting something that we want from these "chats", being able to express how we feel physically for each other in a way that is comfortable and safe. We have had one session since agreeing to this and it has not changed, for better or worse, how I feel about him emotionally. In the cyber world I am not, me. I may use some of what I want or feel, but it is not really me...if that makes sense.

Have you asked yourself if he will still be so interested when and if he does become involved heavily with another woman for himself? Do you think she will be ok with his cyber visits?

I know that when he becomes involved with another woman in RL that our chats will probably come to an end. I knew that from the get go. I feel I am ready for that. Our chats are so rare as it is that not much will have changed. I would hope that he would have an open (verbally) and honest relationship with any woman he is with and be able to talk about our arrangement/agreement and see how she feels, even though I'm pretty sure that she will ask him to stop or to not start up again if we have stopped until that talk can happen. I will not continue to have these "chats" with him if she does not know about them. To some people, cyber is cheating and I don't want that to interfere with his RL relationships. So, you see, I am even willing to put a stop to it if necessary, and I will do so if I start to feel that it is interfering with my emotional attachment or if either Cajun or Elric feel that I am getting "worse".

I can't help but think you are setting yourself up V. I want you healthy for real. Personally I think you are doing whatever it takes to hold on to a part of him that really isn't yours.

Maybe I am trying to hold on to a part of him that isn't really mine. Actually I probably am, but I don't think it's the sexual aspect I'm trying to keep hold of. I am trying to keep hold of the emotional and romantic feelings that we thought we had for each other back in May/June when this whole thing started. I think that his finding a RL relationship, if he is ready, will actually help me to move on from wanting more than friendship because I will see how happy he is and I would never do anything to hurt or damage his happiness.

I do appreciate your concern. Maybe I'm slightly masochistic, and my dad always said I seemed to have to learn things the hard way, but I need to test myself in different ways when it comes to him so I know what I can and cannot do and/or take. I know that if we are around each other that our physical contact has to be limited to hugs hello and goodbye, anything more and I start to melt. I don't like saying I can or can't do something without having tried or tested. Maybe that does set me up for more pain than some who never take the chance, but that is a part of what makes me, me. For better or worse.

Maybe I'm being stubborn or blind, but this is how I see it at this time. Who knows, maybe in a week, a day or even an hour, how I see it will change.

Thank you Mono, for taking the time to point these issues out. And I hope you will still take the time to do so in the future, whether for this relationship or some other I may have in the future.

[MonoVCPHG]

Thank you Mono, for taking the time to point these issues out. And I hope you will still take the time to do so in the future, whether for this relationship or some other I may have in the future.



Thanks for your replies Vandalin - I'll be here when you need me...or when I think you do;)

[vandalin]

Wouldn't have it any other way. :)

[vandalin]

To be continued here: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2295