Not about poly: Homeschooling why?

[vodkafan]

There seems to me to be a kind of mania about homeschooling in America. I wondered why this is. This is only my own opinion but it occurs to me that different sections of the population are not integrated and don't want to be, they don't like their kids picking up "bad" ideas from mixing with other races/religions/ideologies ?
Homeschooling is very rare here in the UK. I know that we would have no life at all if we didn't pack the kids off to school each day. Those 6 and and half hours are precious and allow us the mental space to be ourselves.
And I think it is neccessary for kids to grow up around their peers and not be isolated.
So can somebody American explain it to me?
I thought the US education system was supposed to be pretty good? Am I wrong?

[Tonberry]

I don't think the US school system is that good, honestly, but I'm not a US resident or citizen so don't take my word for it.
I just want to comment that home schooled ids can still socialise with their peers. They can have lots of extra-curricular activities, such as a sport, or learning to play an instrument, or a game, etc. They can go to some regular activities in the community, as well. And they might play with the neighbours.
I'm sure some children who aren't home schooled are more isolated than some who are. School isn't the only way to meet other people and might not be the best context either.

I didn't grow up in a country where homeschooling was common either, and I do find it interesting. Mostly it raises questions for me: how do the ids get their credits, do they take final exams? Are there regulations on what you have to teach them or even what you're not supposed to?
I think teaching is best done in small groups, so from a purely theoretical point of view I would say the best would be for a block or neighbourhood to teach their kids together, each teaching what they're good at.
I think it would probably be difficult, once they reach high-school level, to teach them everything if you're just one person. On the other hand, that level of one-to-one teaching (or other small groups) allow for more individual classes, that match the actual level of each child and doesn't force them to follow the same rhythm as a whole class, which might be too fast or too slow for them depending on the subject.

I think if I was raising a kid, I'd want to home school them until they're 6 or so at least, give them a solid foundation.

[Raven]

Just MHO. I'm an American and I was home schooled from preschool through high school (I'm now a senior in college).

My parents did home school primarily because of religions reasons. However, another major reason was because some of the schools around here are dismal in quality. For instance, I know people here who passed through high school with a 3.5 GPA (A- / B+ grades) essentially without being able to read. I've met adults who don't know that we had the American Revolution. If the schools in your area aren't good, and you're willing to put the time and work into homeschooling (it is a full-time job), I think most people can teach their kids at home at least as well as the local public school. That said - it can have mixed results. Depending on what state you're in, the regulations on homeschooling can vary drastically. Growing up, I knew a family that played the dice game Yahtzee daily for math class (multiple kids in that family are now grown up and still have massive difficulties reading and writing). I also knew families where the kids read college-level material before they turned 10, started calculus in Junior High, and tested out of everything they could test out of when they went to college.

I think the main advantages to home schooling have to do with customization. Every kid learns at a different pace and is motivated by different things. In a large classroom, pace, motivation, and material has to be largely standardized; in homeschooling, it is rather easily adapted. For instance, I have some siblings that excel in some topics, and my mom can adapt the curriculum to let them get ahead and keep in a level that's challenging; for other subjects that they have more difficulties with, she can spend the time and tutor them so that they get the grounding they need before moving on. In high school, I was able to create a couple of my own courses based on my interests. I was basically doing projects similar to Freshman college assignments where I researched books, primary sources, interviewed people, etc on subjects that I was genuinely curious about. This gave me a big advantage in college because I was already used to pursuing projects on my own with little outside direction and because I knew a lot of background knowledge in the area that I want to go on to research.

Socialization is definitely something that needs to be addressed. I think this is something that I missed out on a bit - when I was little, we lived about 30 minutes from the nearest town. I saw people outside my family once or twice a week at church activities. When I was a teen, my mom made a big push that we move somewhere closer to town, and now she's driving my siblings to different events and activities multiple times a day. They're a lot better socialized than I was. :p I think it's definitely possible to get decent socialization with homeschooling, but just like the quality of the rest of the education, it takes work, it takes being proactive, and it doesn't happen with everyone who homeschools.

I do think homeschooling isn't for everyone. Like vodkafan said, that 6 and 1/2 hours can be a lifesaver. :) I'm not sure if I will homeschool in the future when I have a kid / kids. I think I could put together at least a decent education, but I love my work, and I'm not sure I could stand being home with my child the great majority of every day. It will probably depend a lot on where my husband and I are at in our lives at that point, what kind of schools are in the area, how well my kid(s) do in those schools, etc. If there's a great school that my kid enjoys, that's definitely my first option; but if my kid was having trouble in school, homeschooling would be an option I would look in to.

[redpepper]

I live in Canada, but there is some similarities. Really, the school system is old school here. The teachers try, but they are so behind the times. There is not enough room for modern technology and in an ever increasing technological world its important.

Other than that, in our city anyways, there have been several schools close due to cut backs and the kids are moved to other schools and into classrooms with up to 35 kids in them. Kindergarten is filled to the brim with kids and kids don't get the attention they rightly should have.

We send LB to a private school. It's a cheap school run by parents. Its a lot of work as we have to do a lot of work ourselves to keep it going, but the cost is cheap. He is in a class of 10 kids, 2-3 split. There are 30 kids in the school. It's a community really, a family.

There are many of these types of schools cropping up because of the failure of the school system. I think it is a good alternative to home schooling, which would make me want to fall on my knife really... my hat goes off to home schoolers. I would seriously kill someone or myself first if I had to stay home... just no cut out for it. Small independent schools offer the same effect, with more socialization and less of parental involvement, but more than public school.

Having gone to school here and in Britain (Cardiff, Wales) in the 80's, I can honestly say that back then and likely today, there is a huge difference in quality of education at the grade school and highschool level. I did my O levels and A levels over seas and failed several classes due to the lack of standard I was used to. It was there that it became evident that I have dyslexia... in highschool! Like what the fuck?! How did that not get recognized!?

Anyways, I think at university level there is some leveling out, but really, I don't know where it's at now as I have graded with a masters 10 plus years ago now.

I am pleased with how if goes for LB. He is happy, challenged and involved with every moment at school. There is no time for him to stray from what is going on. They have time and energy to talk to him and are genuinely interested in hi success. I love the school he is in! :) such a good choice. I hear of other kids his age getting into trouble through boredom. I hear of the mainstream agenda that they are subjected to and I know that that is not what we want for our child. I put a link on my fb about it... I will see if I can find it. Here it is http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE6ZONL1guA

[ray]

Homeschooling is an interesting topic for me. I can never decide whether it's wonderful or awful. Perhaps due to the lack of consistent standards. It can be a deep, personal, detailed, experiential education. Or it can be doing lots of workbooks. I've known a couple families that did a good job with it but a lot of people don't. I don't ever intend to have children, so I suppose I won't be making that decision. I think it would consider it for a young child, to start out with the basics and then send them off after a year or two. Peer interaction is valuable. As is learning from more than one teacher. The families that homeschooled successfully did things like hire tutors, join a homeschool coop, take lots of educational field trips. A full and even diverse (relative to other home schoolers) experience.

[Breathesgirl]

We live in Canada as well & I would have gladly homeschooled if I had the patience and we had been able to afford it.

Our school system, while not the worst, could certainly use an over haul! (Maybe it's the government that needs the over haul?) Things I took for granted when I went to school here some 25 years ago are not even in the budget today!

Example: my sons are in grade ten. During parent night I asked about my son not bringing home a text book so he could study. They do NOT have individual texts any more! It isn't in the budget. They would rather photo copy the pertinent pages & have the students loose them!

The school system no longer supplies even the basics like tissue (it's winter here people! This means cold, snow & the flu! We need tissue!)

In grade school each family had to send two boxes of tissues to share among the class!

I would homeschool simply so my kids could have the one on one time they need in order to excel. As it is now they are just floating through, waiting to get their grade 12 diploma so they can get their full driver's license! (We're on graduated licencing & they can NOT get their full license until they get that diploma or reach a certain age.)

Sorry, I didn't mean for this to turn into a rant.

[Magdlyn]

Just MHO. I'm an American and I was home schooled from preschool through high school (I'm now a senior in college).
.

Raven, nice to hear from an obviously well-educated and articulate homeschooled "kid."

My ex and I homeschooled our 3 kids. I was the primary educational facilitator, and he had a good job which allowed me to stay home. Both of us are have bachelor's degrees but didn't feel challenged enough by our public school educations, so we made the joint decision to homeschool our kids.

We used the form called "unschooling," letting our children create their own curriculums according to their interests. I homeschooled them all the way thru, "preschool" to age 18. We were secular homeschoolers, not right wing Christian ones.

We weren't home much. We spent lots of time on "field trips" and out in the community, nature, libraries, museums, and doing projects with other homeschoolers.

My kids did sports, art and science classes, scouts, Unitarian Universalist youth groups and community service, etc.

When the 2 oldest got to college, they tested differently for placement. One girl was able to skip Basic English. Both had to take remedial math, where they learned 6 yrs of middle and high school maths in 2 semesters. They'd never do formal math with me. But they were ready for it when they hit college age.

As far as socialization goes, true, they didnt have a huge class of kids their age to be with as kids in a large high school would. But they were often complimented on their good manners, self-motivation, compassion, and ability to see the big picture, in scouts and other social situations. I've met lots of schooled kids and adults who have more social anxiety than them... just because you are thrown together with hundreds of kids each day doesn't automatically mean you will be healthily socialized (quite the contrary, in many cases).

[TL4everu2]

My wife and I have homeschooled both of our children.

Why? Because...initially, it was because the public school system touts "no religion" all over the place. They say "separate church and state"....The reality, is that they want to keep christianity out. Other religions are readily taught. When my daughter came home from school complaining about how she had to memorize a passage from the quran....I was livid! I told her that when they started teaching about islam or other religions in school, she had my permission to ask to be excused from class. I told her to do it politely. She took it upon herself to actually turn it into a protest, and turned her desk around during those teachings. When the principal called and told me what was going on, I asked why my daughter now knows more about islam, than she knew about christianity. They said they had to teach all religions equally. I asked when they would be touching on the bible and what verses. They said they wouldn't be as it wasn't legal to do so. So....I told them that until they started obeying the laws and keeping religion...ALL of it, out of schools, I would be keeping my children out of public schools.

Fast forward to more recent times...about 5 years ago, we actually didn't have the time to teach my son, and he wanted to go to public school so bad. So...we allowed it. And when he came home with C and D grades...and his teacher was writing in his agenda book, that he was "stupid".....We went to the principal. We wanted to know how this teacher still had a job. The principal defended her teachers actions, and actually called the police and had us both banned from the school property. So....We were FORCED to homeschool.

Our son now gets B and C grades.

We have no faith in the American public school system.

There ARE laws in certain states regarding homeschooling. Some are more relaxed than others. Here, the child can move at their own pace. It is easiest if you utilize the state approved program online. It is void of any religious class content, and is fairly easy to use. We have used this system for 4 years now.

The cool/downfall part, is that here, even though it is a state run program, there is no actual highschool diploma given by the state. However, WE are allowed to award the child one, and assuming the states requirements are met, it can be signed by US! AND....it is perfectly legal and accepted by MOST colleges and trade schools. Our daughter is enrolled at a local massage therapy school, and will be starting classes there on January 10th....alongside my wife.

So, for us...we think it's pretty cool, that our daughter was awarded her HS diploma by US, signed by US, and is also enrolled in higher education alongside my wife.

[LT4everu2]

Wow T and i was going to comment on this but you did a great job on why we homeschool. Our kids are WELL rounded and strong individuals and have alot of friends. Our friends always love having them around as they are alot more mature for there ages.

[Livingmybestlife]

I homeschool for a year and a half. My child was ill and just not up to going to school. Instead of having teachers traipsing in at night, I decided to go this route. Socialization wasn't a huge dilemna, I hooked up with a non religious group in my state. We went to our first event which was a not back to school beach day the day school started. Met more then 80 people. Got play dates, and got information on other social, study groups and other things.

She had an awesome time. She was shy at first but hooked up right away.

We also did some radical unschooling, part of the health issues she had were caused by chronic illness worsened by bullying at school. The bullies had no ramifications even when she had a black eye. So we found subjects she loved and went deep in. We did a polar bear project that involved reading, science and study of enviromental groups.

We also got into reading about pyramids and studying the egyptians. Tons of stuff. For Math we did go a more traditional route, but used an online game.

Wasn't easy for me. However, it did allow her body and spirit to heal. We did go to this really cool radical homeschooler event in the middle of the winter. We found lots of people their with alternative lifestyles including poly.

While I enjoyed our homeschool, I enjoy my time alone. I just had it out with the school over some issues we were having about her health. I told them if they didn't get on the stick, we would be going to homeschool again. They freaked and fixed things.

[LovingRadiance]

Homeschooling is an interesting topic for me. I can never decide whether it's wonderful or awful.

It's definitely both.

We're lucky on this note to be in Alaska.
Check out this website-
www.ideafamilies.org

That's a state program that coordinates homeschoolers in Alaska. It's not the ONLY one-but it's the biggest. It rocks.

We're connected to HUNDREDS of other families all within a 100 mile radius of us. If we wanted to we could participate in activities with other families every day of every week of the whole year!

Our whole Scout Pack was homeschoolers and it was a HUGE pack.
I organized the homeschool prom for 2 years-well over 100 kids each year attended.
We have a swim co-op that meets weekly-75 students.

My kids have more socialization as homeschoolers than I ever had as a public school student-and they are getting a MUCH better education. Our public education system is the pits.

It wasn't a religious reason for us-it was academic. I want my kids to have a chance at a GOOD future-and the public school isn't the ticket. All of them are high on their test scores and at 10 years old Sweet Pea is halfway through 6th grade and reading and writing at a highschool level.
Our oldest went to public school for kindergarten-the teacher told me he couldn't do a thing for her-he was teaching kids their abcs, she was already reading chapter books and doing multiplication. Halfway through the year I took her out.
She went to a private school for 1st-3rd grade, but I couldn't afford to keep her there even though we loved it. :(

I pull a pretty tight rein on what I expect OF their work-but how we organize the days/weeks/months-I'm lenient on. It's worked well-they're all ahead. ;)

[LovingRadiance]

Admittedly-I do often wish I could have that 6 hour a day break-but I figure someday they'll all be grown and then I'll have many more than 6 hours a day to remember all these days when I was right there.

[MrDreadful]

It's been quite interesting reading the comments here about US homeschooling and the reasons behind it... I was rather under the impression that it was only religious nutters and brain-fried hippies that did it and am glad to have been proven wrong! I'm also a little shocked at how bad the school system seems to be in many states... here in the UK our schools ain't perfect but I don't think any of them are that bad! (well maybe one of our local ones here is but that's more down to it covering a really bad area of town and therefore getting the worst kids)

I've met adults who don't know that we had the American Revolution.

Wait... what? What did they think Independence Day was all about?

[Confused]

I'm in the uk and home educating my 6year old (and 2.5year old).

We go out to home educating group meetups at least twice a week, we spend lots of time at friends houses cooperating organising science activities or doing cooking etc. Here in the uk she would have been expected to start school full time just 2 months after her fourth birthday. She was nowhere near ready, so we're into our third year of home educating and mostly really enjoying it.

Like LR I would love some days to have that 6 hours alone (or with my toddler) but its not worth it once we consider the downsides of school for our family. My husband is a pilot, can't take any of his holidays during school holiday times so we wouldn't be able to go on holidays hardly at all with him. He also works a lot of evenings and weekends, so he would very rarely see our daughter if she was in school.

[Livingmybestlife]

For me the issue was about my child, being quiet shy in social settings. However, super confident and okay in social situations where she knows people.

Her private school, was withholding information from us about her needing extra time to write on papers and tests. Turns out she has a learning issue called dysgraphia. She was bullied by a group of boys. The lead one had a horrible home life. Small school struggling more interested in keeping the tuition and covering the damage. However, when she got the black eye and they didn't call or do anything, hell rained down from a pretty angry Mom (me) and Dad.

The public school is very good in our town. However, we made a decision for the smaller group as for her low immune system. Turns out we were wrong.
She is an only child. With her health issues we needed her to heal.

I did love huge parts of homeschooling. However, in the long run it was best for her to go to school. We are once again dealing with some bullies. She is just very meek, comes from her birth mothers personality. She is in therapy to deal with her illness and the public school is taking a hard line with the kids. She is also learning to stand up for her self.

If I had more children, I would homeschool her. We have been fortunate for the past two years that she has had the two best teachers in her grade.

[Magdlyn]

It's been quite interesting reading the comments here about US homeschooling and the reasons behind it... I was rather under the impression that it was only religious nutters and brain-fried hippies that did it and am glad to have been proven wrong! I'm also a little shocked at how bad the school system seems to be in many states... here in the UK our schools ain't perfect but I don't think any of them are that bad! (well maybe one of our local ones here is but that's more down to it covering a really bad area of town and therefore getting the worst kids)

Ummm, yeah. We've got lots of "bad areas" in the States. If you mean poor people who don't pay much taxes for school facilities, and whose kids grow up in situations where they feel they need gang protection to survive.



Wait... what? What did they think Independence Day was all about?

How about "America is Number One! And we're gonna prove it by drinking lots of Bud and shooting off fireworks in each others' faces!" ? :p

[MrDreadful]

Ummm, yeah. We've got lots of "bad areas" in the States. If you mean poor people who don't pay much taxes for school facilities, and whose kids grow up in situations where they feel they need gang protection to survive.

Okay, yeah... we have that in the UK too, was kinda going for tongue-in-cheek there but I think my aim was off. Basically the worst schools are invariably the inner city attached-to-a-council-estate type thing... but overall the education system here is pretty good. Shame the gubmint keep dicking about with it. Interestingly there is a trend developing where poor inner city kids from unemployed families are rebelling by performing well academically and getting decent jobs! :D

How about "America is Number One! And we're gonna prove it by drinking lots of Bud and shooting off fireworks in each others' faces!" ? :p

<culturalstereotyping>YEE-HAW! U! S! A! *splode*</culturalstereotyping>
It saddens me when people are ignorant of their own heritage. There are people here who don't know what the Battle of Britain was.

[GroundedSpirit]

I have to toss in a comment on this topic myself. After trying to work "within" the system for change for years, I also finally gave up and pulled our last son out of public school. This was before the home schooling movement really became an entity so it was a hard go.

From my perspective the public education system overall is in shambles. I'm speaking of this in regards to the U.S of course, but from interaction with numbers of people all over the world, I suspect that in general it's not much different.

Why ?

It seems we've lost sight of what "learning" truly is !

"Learning" is NOT about being able to parrot back a given list of factoids on a given subject. It's not about absorbing massive amount of information like a computer system to have at ready recall should we need it.

"Learning" is about connecting dots. About critical thinking skills. And above all, "learning" is about understanding the VALUE of learning ! And the love of it. You hear people espouse phrases such as "life-long learners" and it seems to sail right over the top of most.

Life and living is a constant evolution. Flexibility is paramount. If you fail to develop the skills of not only memory, but of fitting the pieces together in different ways to adapt to life's changes, your life will be one of hardship and struggle.

And this more than anything seems to be what's missing from public education.

We no longer attempt to teach people how to THINK !
Because "thinking" is VERY dangerous to any entrenched institution. Just learn the facts folks - don't go asking questions or rocking the boat !

GS

[FlameKat]

Actually GS I have to speak up on this one - the high school my daughters go to, and the course my 2nd is planning to enrol in does teach critical thinking the entire course is designed to make sure the kids know how to think for themselves - to not spout out the answers - to really question and think for themselves... it also has a component on social awareness - via volunteering in the community...

As soon as this became available I heaved a sigh of relief - because if the program wasn't available I would thoroughly agree with you - the program is the International Baccalaureate - and it is taught worldwide (it took our school 15 years to reach the standard required to become a Baccalaureate school - definitely worth the effort :D)

You can read more about it here http://www.ibo.org/

[Mohegan]

We don't have kids, but Karma and I have had a lot of in depth talks about this, for our if maybe one day kids.

Mostly for all the reasons already stated.

American schools suck. And a lot of it isn't the teachers, it's the polotics they are forced to play in order to keep a job. My sister in law was a teacher at a last chance school for toubled kids, and she quit because she was spending more time there than with her own daughter and not getting paid for the majority of the time she put in. She loved the kids and cared so much about their success, but she wasn't given the tools needed to provide what they needed. When she realized how much she was paying out of pocket, it just didn't make sense for her to stay in a no win situation.

Karma and I both had problems with school because we weren't challenged, so we gave up.

I like the idea of homeschooling because I can provide one on one attention. If they need more help on one thing, but a more accelerated plan for something else, I can do that. I can take them places and show them how what they're learning applies to real life.

Socializing is a big issue for us. I went to a very open, very arts enriched, very integrated school. We didn't have cliques. Sure people hung out with those they had things in common with, but many people hung out with people from different "groups".

Karma went to a school where there were cliques upon cliques, with lots cruelty going on in the halls.

I want my kids to have an open mind and judge people on who they are, not what color they are or religion they practice. Are they a good person? Great then why the hell does any of the rest matter?

So how do I provide that homeschooling? I've found plenty of groups to do that with. To do group field trips and whatever.

So in my opinion, homeschooling, at least in America, when done by parents who actualy care about their childs education, is a great thing.

[LovingRadiance]

It's certainly been magnificent for us. Absolutely magnificent. Spicy Pea graduated way ahead of her class having already earned her Certified Nursing Assistant certificate.

Sweet Pea is a full grade and a half ahead of where he "should" be and no reason to think he won't keep moving ahead.

:)

And socially-OMG, all my kids have friends who range from MUCH younger than themselves to elderly-with no difficulty in those relationships. It wouldn't occur to them that they can't enjoy their time with any age group.

The idea of being racist or sexist is killed by their home environment. GG is part Chinese, Spicy Pea is part Puerto Rican, I'm bi, the family is poly... we're just a big huge walking, talking cauldron of different tastes. ;)

[GroundedSpirit]

Actually GS I have to speak up on this one - the high school my daughters go to, and the course my 2nd is planning to enrol in does teach critical thinking the entire course is designed to make sure the kids know how to think for themselves - to not spout out the answers - to really question and think for themselves... it also has a component on social awareness - via volunteering in the community...

As soon as this became available I heaved a sigh of relief - because if the program wasn't available I would thoroughly agree with you - the program is the International Baccalaureate - and it is taught worldwide (it took our school 15 years to reach the standard required to become a Baccalaureate school - definitely worth the effort :D)

You can read more about it here http://www.ibo.org/


Interesting info Kat. Where are you located ? States ?

Interestingly enough, when I was working within the public system, I was there one year when we were going through the accreditation process. When I attempted to get inserted in our mission statement such a simple statement as " and to foster critical thinking skills in all our students" I was shot down quite soundly by the 'powers that be'. Although there was some theoretical agreement with the philosophy, it was plainly stated that no such statement was allowed as it was unmeasurable !
I even questioned that although I understood where that came from and what it meant. But one thing I know for certain...............if you aren't committed enough about something to put it in ink, it's rare that anything will ever progress. Failing to 'ink' it, it just becomes another escape mechanism.

Looking up the site you referred to for future use :)

GS

[FlameKat]

Interesting info Kat. Where are you located ? States ?



Hey GS - located in Australia currently, planning to move to Canada eventually... the Canadian school my daughter would be moving to also offers the program - and a more extended one.. hers currently has very limited courses in the arts (even though her school is the best in our town and very highly acclaimed for their arts program - it doesn't meet international standards yet - though they are working very hard on that :D)

It is my understanding that Australia has only 3 or 4 IB schools nationally... it's very difficult to obtain the status and standards required...

[Lemondrop]

I'm always a day late and a dollar short.

We homeschooled because I was bullied mercilessly throughout school, to the point of writing suicidal notes in my journal when I was ten. I'm not saying this for pity, but as a fact. I put my son, reluctantly, in public preschool because it was the thing to do, and he loved it, and I loved it. He did well, the teachers were great, and I had time to focus on the new baby. However, things changed when he entered kindergarten. The teachers were always complaining about him, he was being bullied on the playground. We volunteered in his classroom, and we were shocked to see that our son was sitting alone at a table in the corner while the other kids sat together. Turns out he was talking too much so they isolated him. We spent the afternoon helping the other kids color on the paper with a green crayon and sort scraps of paper into groups of color. Our son didn't color--he was the only one in the room who didn't need to because he could read the word "green", so he didn't need remind himself with a crayon what color he was looking for. We though, our son learned to read at home and the teacher isn't teaching him at all. Nothing we saw the rest of the year changed our mind. When the teacher cornered me at the end of the year with the speech therapist and told me my son had a speech impediment--he took a breath sometimes in the middle of a word, which was "inappropriate"--BUT they weren't going to do anything about it, there wasn't anything I could do about it, and it might not even manifest as a problem, I informed them that I was going to homeschool. The teacher said, "That might be a good idea" and I thought, heck if the school doesn't want him, I'm certainly not going to force it down his throat.

We homeschooled until he was 15, and we loved it. I loved being an active part of his education. We went places, we did things, we had many opportunities which I don't think we would have had if the kids were public schooled. I still mourn the loss. My son asked to go to high school, because he said he felt isolated. He likes school, but he's hard to take sometimes. He's much more moody now, and he never has any time because he's always doing schoolwork. He's been bullied (again) and the school did nothing about it (again). He's encountered teachers who don't care if he passes or fails, and sadly, he's encountered teachers who don't know how to help him learn if he doesn't fit in a certain box. He struggles daily, and I feel helpless and angry that today might be the day that kills his love of learning. But maybe he enjoys the challenge, because he insists that he stay in this school. I'm still researching other schools, just in case.

My daughter is an easier kid. She went to a Montessori elementary school and loved it. Now she's in a gifted and talented program at middle school, but it's very mired in old-school, "think-in-the-box" type teaching, where her work is invalidated if it's not performed within strict parameters. Again, researching other schools.

[DrunkenPorcupine]

I am an anarchist and as such have different political ideas, especially ones that conflict with the idea of the government educating children.

Specific issues would be the teaching of "American History" with a focus on the establishment of government. People who believe in the valid existence of the state don't realize this subtle twist, but lesson plans are often taught from a state-centric perspective. History covers wars but never the individual, human impact wars have.

I'm anti-war, period. While American History teaches how the Americans fought the revolutionary war to cast of the chains of English tyranny, the truth is that it was the American powerful kicking off the British powerful. Their wealth was established (and retained) by the very land-grants given to them by the British et cetera.

Basically, it's a matter of perspective. Government schools (for so many reasons, from lack of perspective to legislature mandated standardized testing) have no ability to teach the values of personal freedom and responsibility that I would instill in my children and that I think are so VERY vital.

So that doesn't appeal to non-anarchists, but I've got issues with the very nature of the American education system as well. It's based on the Prussian model which was developed for the purpose of creating soldiers and factory workers. Drones, as I see them.

They seperate children by age groups, not intellectual capacity. In lower grades, this is even worse since children get instruction with the same class in ALL subjects by the same teacher. At least in middle schools, they're rotating teachers and classmates to diversify the pool of knowledge and perspectives.

I beleive the purpose of education isn't to give kids skills, it's to show them how to be adults. Gaining skills comes with that, but there's more to it. Social interactions, for instance. Development of a self-enforcing morality. Fostering non-educational interests. I think tossing a bunch of ignorant (in it's true sense of "lacking information") children together under the supervision of ONE person is contrary to this process. Children learn to be adults by interacting with adults, not children. I can't help but think that children in this kind of setting are treated like cattle, with the teachers as the herders, rather than developing, diverse, individual human beings. Even when teachers have the best intentions, they're limited to their own perspectives and value sets. It MUST come down to that since the kids aren't given enough infomation to form their own perspectives inside that model.

[Somegeezer]

I am an anarchist and as such have different political ideas, especially ones that conflict with the idea of the government educating children.

Specific issues would be the teaching of "American History" with a focus on the establishment of government. People who believe in the valid existence of the state don't realize this subtle twist, but lesson plans are often taught from a state-centric perspective. History covers wars but never the individual, human impact wars have.

I'm anti-war, period. While American History teaches how the Americans fought the revolutionary war to cast of the chains of English tyranny, the truth is that it was the American powerful kicking off the British powerful. Their wealth was established (and retained) by the very land-grants given to them by the British et cetera.

Basically, it's a matter of perspective. Government schools (for so many reasons, from lack of perspective to legislature mandated standardized testing) have no ability to teach the values of personal freedom and responsibility that I would instill in my children and that I think are so VERY vital.

So that doesn't appeal to non-anarchists, but I've got issues with the very nature of the American education system as well. It's based on the Prussian model which was developed for the purpose of creating soldiers and factory workers. Drones, as I see them.

They seperate children by age groups, not intellectual capacity. In lower grades, this is even worse since children get instruction with the same class in ALL subjects by the same teacher. At least in middle schools, they're rotating teachers and classmates to diversify the pool of knowledge and perspectives.

I beleive the purpose of education isn't to give kids skills, it's to show them how to be adults. Gaining skills comes with that, but there's more to it. Social interactions, for instance. Development of a self-enforcing morality. Fostering non-educational interests. I think tossing a bunch of ignorant (in it's true sense of "lacking information") children together under the supervision of ONE person is contrary to this process. Children learn to be adults by interacting with adults, not children. I can't help but think that children in this kind of setting are treated like cattle, with the teachers as the herders, rather than developing, diverse, individual human beings. Even when teachers have the best intentions, they're limited to their own perspectives and value sets. It MUST come down to that since the kids aren't given enough infomation to form their own perspectives inside that model.
A massive +1 to that. I don't think I read anything that I didn't agree with there. It's the same over here in England. I've never enjoyed the school education system here. College wasn't much better, but I was actually put around a lot more mature people at a similar intelligence level for the subject I was studying. I think there was still a lot of teaching me things I didn't need to learn though. For the kind of work I want to be in, I was given a lot of useless information...

[LovingRadiance]

Specific issues would be the teaching of "American History" with a focus on the establishment of government. ..............
History covers wars but never the individual, human impact wars have.

While American History teaches how the Americans fought the revolutionary war to cast of the chains of English tyranny, the truth is that it was the American powerful kicking off the British powerful. Their wealth was established (and retained) by the very land-grants given to them by the British et cetera.

Basically, it's a matter of perspective. Government schools (for so many reasons, from lack of perspective to legislature mandated standardized testing) have no ability to teach the values of personal freedom and responsibility that I would instill in my children and that I think are so VERY vital.

So that doesn't appeal to non-anarchists, but I've got issues with the very nature of the American education system as well. It's based on the Prussian model which was developed for the purpose of creating soldiers and factory workers. Drones, as I see them.

They seperate children by age groups, not intellectual capacity. In lower grades, this is even worse since children get instruction with the same class in ALL subjects by the same teacher. At least in middle schools, they're rotating teachers and classmates to diversify the pool of knowledge and perspectives.

I beleive the purpose of education isn't to give kids skills, it's to show them how to be adults. Gaining skills comes with that, but there's more to it. Social interactions, for instance. Development of a self-enforcing morality. Fostering non-educational interests. I think tossing a bunch of ignorant (in it's true sense of "lacking information") children together under the supervision of ONE person is contrary to this process. Children learn to be adults by interacting with adults, not children. I can't help but think that children in this kind of setting are treated like cattle, with the teachers as the herders, rather than developing, diverse, individual human beings. Even when teachers have the best intentions, they're limited to their own perspectives and value sets. It MUST come down to that since the kids aren't given enough infomation to form their own perspectives inside that model.

I am so with you on this. I'm not an anarchist, but I am soooooo totally there with you on the facts that I left in the quote. :)

You kicked ass explaining it-wish more people understood these faulty circumstances in our educational system!
I want my children to learn to THINK, not simply to obey.

That concept was driven home to me in highschool (my own highschool) when I joined JROTC. I had MORE education on thinking for myself in the military style training than I did in my REGULAR CLASSES! EEK!

My ten year old son whose never seen the inside of a public school thinks for himself so well.
My older three kids who had some public school and some not, all struggle with just following along.

Yes-I understand that as people each child is different, but it's impossible to not see the changes after a child enters that type of environment opposed to before they ever set foot in it.

Thank you for writing it out so much more eloquently than I could.

[Confused]

I'll add my voice to those agreeing.

I think grouping children by age and making them learn set things at set times regardless of their interest or ability just seems totally nuts, and I too want them to question things (yes even adults) and think for themselves and not have to learn to fit in just to survive school.