What I think I want

[StarGazer]

I am new to polyamory. I was introduced to it by an ex who was polyamorous about a year ago. I looked into it a little but didn't find any forums for it ( I don't think I looked that hard)- and more or less assumed she'd be good at guiding me and if there was anything I'd need to know she'd tell me. I now know just how many things are wrong with that viewpoint, starting with the word "assumed".

I started looking into it more a few months ago, I think february or march, found that even if I wasn't poly myself I loved the basic ideas- the importance on communication, honesty, etc. They should be valued and taught more for every relationship, monogamous, platonic, business, etc. My partner got awkward about it, and still is, because they don't think they could ever be okay with me being with someone else- and are still paranoid I'll leave them for it, even though I'm still insistent that I won't. And I mean that...

But I recently found polyfamilies.com and it sort of clicked. The way one of the writer's put it, that they wanted a nest, sounds right for me. I don't know if I want multiple people to be in a romantic relationship with, that's actually a bit irrelevant in a "If it happens it happens, if it stays platonic that's fine" way. But I want a family like that.

You know how people want a big family, lots of kids, while some people only want one or two, or don't even want any? I feel like that with the adults. I still only want a maximum of one biological kid of mine, and to adopt any others (if the other people wnat more biological kids, well, they can work that out- one birth is enough for me), but I like the idea of a non-traditional family with more than two parental figures who love and trust each other as a family themselves- whether it's blood relatives, close friends, or a polyamorous family.

And I don't really know where to go from here. I don't know if my partner'd be any more okay with that, or if it's even possible for it to happen. I also know that you can't expect the perfect person/people to fall into your lap just by saying "I want this". But that's what I want.

I'm not sure what the point of posting this is, it might just be to get it out on paper... or html.

[alphafour]

I hear what you are saying. I feel much the same. I want a more developed and sharing atmosphere with my community, and I realized that I need to first develop a relationship with just one other person and with honesty, trust, and if I can use the word in a positive sense; co-dependence. We depend on each other to lift the union. I realized that I need a larger unit than two people, but had to start with one other before I could move to three. It's only logical.

Poly came in the back door, because; face it: Sex sells.

I have sold myself on it. I was a pushover.

[StarGazer]

I hear what you are saying. I feel much the same. I want a more developed and sharing atmosphere with my community, and I realized that I need to first develop a relationship with just one other person and with honesty, trust, and if I can use the word in a positive sense; co-dependence. We depend on each other to lift the union. I realized that I need a larger unit than two people, but had to start with one other before I could move to three. It's only logical.

It is logical. I'm sure it's possible that 3 people have developed a triad before a dyad was started, but I doubt it's common. Of course, adding another person is generally easier if both people agree to it. :/

Poly came in the back door, because; face it: Sex sells.
My partner and I are asexual, so sex has never been a good marketing strategy for us, but I od know it sells for the majority.

[alphafour]

My partner and I are asexual, so sex has never been a good marketing strategy for us, but I od know it sells for the majority.

I don't want to pry, but when you say "asexual" are you referring to abstinence and celibacy, or mechanized pleasurable entertainment?

I allow for most sexuality. I am judgemental as long as involves consenting adult humans, just curious.

(Of course if ET was involved, then you know might know my lovers;))

[StarGazer]

I don't want to pry, but when you say "asexual" are you referring to abstinence and celibacy, or mechanized pleasurable entertainment?
Er... "mechanized pleasurable entertainment"? What do you mean?

Asexuality refers to a lack of sexual attraction. It is not celibacy or abstinance- many asexuals choose to be both of those, but there are those asexuals who have sex to please a sexual partner, and even those who enjoy sex. I know a few polyamorous asexuals, as well as those who have a polyamorous partner who has sex with other partners instead of asking the asexual.

Asexuals are capable of being romantic, and wanting to date, fall in love, etc which is why you'll see some who call themselves hetero/homo/bi/pan/etc-asexual, but not all are. This (http://www.asexuality.org/home/) is a good resource if you're curious about it.

[alphafour]

Er... "mechanized pleasurable entertainment"? What do you mean?

Love dolls or Bob. I just found out about BOB. It means 'battery operated boyfriend." I knew there were women who used such devices, but didn't know they called them Bob.


Asexuality refers to a lack of sexual attraction. It is not celibacy or abstinance- many asexuals choose to be both of those,


It would seem an easy enough choice with what the link suggests. Thanks.

[StarGazer]

Love dolls or Bob. I just found out about BOB. It means 'battery operated boyfriend." I knew there were women who used such devices, but didn't know they called them Bob.
Ah, yeah, I heard of that in a webcomic- Girls With Slingshots- I had no idea women actually called them 'Bob'.

[NeonKaos]

After reading that link, I think it's possible that the "other guy" I fell in love with earlier this year could be "asexual", due to the fact that he told me he is grossed-out by the "wetness" of sex (and other reasons).

[StarGazer]

After reading that link, I think it's possible that the "other guy" I fell in love with earlier this year could be "asexual", due to the fact that he told me he is grossed-out by the "wetness" of sex (and other reasons).

There are repulsed asexuals, it's entirely possible he was one.

[River]

At least some people who are repulsed by sex, or even disinterested in sex, have had some sort of sexual/emotional trauma -- often early in life, often memory repressed -- which results in this attitude. I will not say that all such people fit this description. Indeed, I think it far too common in our society that difference becomes pathologized. Some people may simply occupy the very far low end of the sexual appatite spectrum -- without that being the result of trauma, abuse, or psychological problems. Or physiological ones (such as hormonal balance).

[Mark1npt]

James, there are way more pathologized people out there than you could ever imagine......There are two and only two basic reasons for asexuality. Physical problems, (low hormone values /low sex drive) and emotional issues (like incest from childhood or mental illness). I find it very odd and strange that there could be such things as "asexual poly lovers".....by definition if they are lovers and having sex they're not asexual.

[XYZ123]

Thank you for posting. You summed up nicely alot (if not all) of what I've been feeling. You inspired me to finally come out of the shadows and join the forum. I hope you find what you are looking for.

[StarGazer]

Thank you for posting. You summed up nicely alot (if not all) of what I've been feeling. You inspired me to finally come out of the shadows and join the forum. I hope you find what you are looking for.

I'm glad it helped some. :) I hope you find what you're looking for as well.

There are two and only two basic reasons for asexuality. Physical problems, (low hormone values /low sex drive) and emotional issues (like incest from childhood or mental illness).
I have neither of those. Physcally I'm healthy, I have a fine sex drive and when I took something to increase my sex drive- it didn't do a damn thing to my orientation. Emotionally I'm also healthy, with no incidents of incest or other traumatic experiences that could have effected my asexuality. I was sexually abused, but I knew I was asexual long before that happened and, again, it didn't effect my orientation.

What are the two basic reasons of heterosexuality? I'm curious to hear what you feel causes other sexual orientations.

I find it very odd and strange that there could be such things as "asexual poly lovers".....by definition if they are lovers and having sex they're not asexual.
I don't have "lovers". I have partners- people who I'm in a close, romantic relationship with, people who I love and care about a great deal. Some might choose the word lovers for their relationships, but I prefer partner.

Last I checked- polyamory was loving many, not fucking many.

Also- asexual doesn't mean "doesn't have sex". There are a lot of asexuals who have sex to make their sexual partner happy.

[Mark1npt]

Wha???? If you are physically healthy, why did you take something for your sex drive? You expected it to change your orientation? Wha??? You sound confused inside.

Regarding your asexuality....you knew you were asexual before you were sexually abused???? At what age were you aware???? These are some serious issues at work here. Anyone "grossed out" by the wetness of sex definately has an emotional issue, ala....anal, OCD, whatever. I know a guy who thinks most things having to do with the body and fluids is "nasty". That's his psychological issue. That's his hangup. That's why he only had sex with his wife once a year, that's why he's now divorced.

You seem to misunderstand and misrepresent my position. I don't give a flip about people's orientation. I don't have two reasons for someone being hetero and I don't care. I do care about people and their problems however. There are plenty of them to go around. There are only two reasons for asexuality......physical..... and psychological/emotional. If you don't make love then you don't have "lovers", IMO. Yes, you may "love" someone, but they're not a lover if you don't partake, IMO........you may agree to disagree, but I believe most of the world would be behind me on that one.

And, btw....if you have sex....any kind of sex, even if it's meaningless sex to make your sexual partner happy.......then you're not asexual! You may not enjoy it but you're not asexual.

[XYZ123]

Hmmm. I don't know I agree with there being only two possible reasons. I went through a period of time (about two years) after the first time I had sex where I just had no desire for it. Prior to my first sexual encounter at 16 I was very curious and very into it and felt like it was something I needed to do or a right of passage. After, I just didn't see the big deal. I was still attracted to people and formed relationships and even romantic connections, but sex was just not on my to-do list. There were so many other things. Emotions, intellectual conversations, even physical contact not involving sexual contact. And there was nothing physically wrong with me nor did I have any psychological aversion to sex. I simply wasn't interested.

I've gone through phases like this on and off in my life, during which I would have considered myself as asexual. During some of these phases I DID engage in sex, not because I wanted or needed the sexual gratification, but because my partner at the time did and it gratified me to make my partner happy in whatever way I could, including sharing my body. But I didn't feel the usual physical pleasure associated with sex. I wasn't adverse to it. I simply could "take it or leave it", but would have left it if up to me.

Am I hitting the nail a bit closer to the head here StarGazer?

[NeonKaos]

It was my "other guy" who was "grossed out" by the "wetness" of sex... this was something the actual person told me, I was giving it as an example of what would constitute an "asexual" personality, not as a sweeping generalization of "asexuality".

And FWIW, my "other guy" is not only in fact bipolar _and_ OCD, but I think he was probably forced to touch adults inappropriately as a child.

[Mark1npt]

I get your drift XYZ, but there are obviously reasons (physical/emotional) why you wouldn't be interested in sex.....could it be you just didn't have an attentive lover at that early age? Was it too painful? Was it not "knock your socks off rockin hot sex"? Some woman are not orgasmic. Are you one (forgive me for being too personal) who's never experienced an orgasm, never reached complete fulfillment...I hope I'm wrong.

[Mark1npt]

YGirl, you confirmed my hypothesis. Thank you. And sorry to hear about your other guy. I hope you can or have been able to help him work thru some of his issues. Keep lovin'.

[NeonKaos]

Thanks; I actually haven't spoken to him in over a month because that's the way he wants it. Maybe someday. Right now he's all hung up on finding some woman who will have his babies. That ain't yours truly, so I wish him all the best.

[XYZ123]

I get your drift XYZ, but there are obviously reasons (physical/emotional) why you wouldn't be interested in sex.....could it be you just didn't have an attentive lover at that early age? Was it too painful? Was it not "knock your socks off rockin hot sex"? Some woman are not orgasmic. Are you one (forgive me for being too personal) who's never experienced an orgasm, never reached complete fulfillment...I hope I'm wrong.

LOL. Sorry hun. Wrong on all counts. My first lover was gentle, attentive, and I've been able to orgasm just fine since before I had intercourse and still do a fine job of it to this day. Quite simply put, other things-many other things-just were more important and interesting to me than sex. I only thought about sex during the "asexual" times if someone else brought it up. Asexuality, by definition, is not aversion to sex (though it can include that), but simply a lack of desire, need, or enjoyment of sex.

I am bipolar and I've seen a psychologist most of my teen/adult life. So I have had many a hormone level check and evaluation. Never anything wrong related to sex drive and even most of my meds didn't affect it.

If you don't have to have something "wrong" with you to be hetero, not homo, nor bi, nor sexually poly...why MUST there be something "wrong" for being asexual? Sometimes people just have better things to think about and do. :p

[StarGazer]

Wha???? If you are physically healthy, why did you take something for your sex drive? You expected it to change your orientation? Wha??? You sound confused inside.
*sighs* No. I took something that, as a side effect, increased my sex drive. The main goal was to help me build muscle and improve performance in weight training, which it did. And, that side effect didn't change my sexual orientation. I would never take something specifically to raise my sex drive.

Regarding your asexuality....you knew you were asexual before you were sexually abused???? At what age were you aware???? These are some serious issues at work here.
What age do you think I was sexually abused? I'm not talking about it happening at 5 or 10. What- can I not know until I'm 50? I was 15 at the time. Yes, not the oldest of the old- but if a 15 year old told you they were gay, would you tell them they can't know? I knew. And after spending a long time to get past it, seeing several therapists, and having my asexuality remain a constant- I still know what I am.

You seem to misunderstand and misrepresent my position. I don't give a flip about people's orientation.
Asexuality is a sexual orientation, just as valid as hetero/homo/bi/pan/anything else.

If you don't make love then you don't have "lovers", IMO.
I just said I don't have lovers. I have partners.

And, btw....if you have sex....any kind of sex, even if it's meaningless sex to make your sexual partner happy.......then you're not asexual! You may not enjoy it but you're not asexual.
Asexuality is about sexual attraction. If a straight man had sex wiht another man- for whatever reason- that doesn't make him gay. It doesn't even make him bi unless the reason was that he was sexually attracted to this man. It makes him a straight man who had sex with a man for some reason.

[StarGazer]

I've gone through phases like this on and off in my life, during which I would have considered myself as asexual. During some of these phases I DID engage in sex, not because I wanted or needed the sexual gratification, but because my partner at the time did and it gratified me to make my partner happy in whatever way I could, including sharing my body. But I didn't feel the usual physical pleasure associated with sex. I wasn't adverse to it. I simply could "take it or leave it", but would have left it if up to me.

Am I hitting the nail a bit closer to the head here StarGazer?
Yeah, that's pretty much it. You don't want to have sex for sex's sake- but you have a partner who has a need, and you do your best to fulfill it, just like it in any relationship.

[vandalin]

Asexual: A person who does not experience sexual attraction.
http://www.asexuality.org/home/overview.html

[Mark1npt]

You answered your own question, you have a mental illness. You are bipolar, thus the reason for your "asexuality" due to no desire to have sex. It doesn't mean it's wrong to be asexual, it's just you have a def reason why you are. I rest my case.

[StarGazer]

Asexual: A person who does not experience sexual attraction.
http://www.asexuality.org/home/overview.html

Thank you.

[XYZ123]

You answered your own question, you have a mental illness. You are bipolar, thus the reason for your "asexuality" due to no desire to have sex. It doesn't mean it's wrong to be asexual, it's just you have a def reason why you are. I rest my case.

Ummmm no. Look up bipolar. During the course of the illness there are many many many stable periods, even years, where a person does not suffer from any mental/emotional upset. I had asexual points during ups, downs, and periods of stability all. Which leads me to the conclusion-I was just asexual.

I'm not trying to fight. I did just start as a member. But you seem unnaturally disturbed by the notion of asexuality. Do you associate poly love with poly sex? I was under the impression that in truly polyamoros people sex equals love but love does not have to equal sex. (Isn't this what the two arms of a V are to eachother?) Love without sex is still love. Sex without love is closer to swinging.

[Mark1npt]

Semantics here.....my comment about being bi-polar was directed at XYZ not you Stargazer. Please read all thru the posts. If it wasn't clear I'm sorry. And it makes no diff if you have lucid periods or are in remission of your bi-polar-ness, you are still bi-polar abd have a mental illness. An alcoholic who no longer drinks is still an alcoholic.

Regarding "asexuality", my definition is someone who doesn't want sex. Can you have poly love, yes. Can you fully experience poly love without sex, no. That is an impossiblity. It is the deepest expression of love there is. Holding hands, just doesn't cut it, on that level. But do what works for you. I don't care. It's what makes you happy and fulfilled. There is no right or wrong. Makes no diff if you're bi, asexual, gay, straight, makes no diff........

I agree that sex without love is only swinging, I don't think you'll get any argument from the people on this forum. This is not about "open relationships".

[XYZ123]

:rolleyes: *sigh*
Perhaps I am neither bi nor poly either than Mark. Perhaps it is all just a product of my mental illness? Perhaps we are all madmen....
I respect you have your own opinion. But trying to label something as a problem or a disorder of sorts because you don't understand it (in this case asexuality) is still just that. You're putting a negative connotation on another person's lifestyle. A lifestyle that is not hurting anyone.
Essentially Stargazer is here because she/he (? do you have a preference Star?) is looking for a supportive environment. And you are saying what s/he feels is either not possible or is a "problem". Don't we all suffer enough of that as it is?
With that I retire myself from this roundabout discussion. It's gone far too off topic as is. Thank you for the convo.

[StarGazer]

Semantics here.....my comment about being bi-polar was directed at XYZ not you Stargazer. Please read all thru the posts. If it wasn't clear I'm sorry.
It wasn't clear, I reread the post and thread to be sure, and realized you weren't talking to me so I edited that out.

Regarding "asexuality", my definition is someone who doesn't want sex.

An asexual is a person who doesn't experience sexual attraction. "Want" is a very vague thing. You can want to please your partner and fulfill their needs within a relationship can result in wanting to have sex with your partner for that sake. An asexual can want to have sex under certain circumstances, but they don't experience sexual attraction. That is the difference.

It is the deepest expression of love there is.
It can be a very deep expression of love between two people who see sex as an expression of love and are in love, I won't debate that. It can also be an expression of "I'm horny, lonely, and desperate. You'll do".

Cuddling on the couch while watching a movie you both love, or a movie you both hate but love taking the piss out of, is a much deeper expression of love for many asexuals.

Also, expressions of love aren't love. It helps remind you of the love, that your partner loves you and how much you love htem, but it isn't love itself. Poly love is about love not the expressions thereof, because different people have different ways of expressing love and different needs in terms of what expressions make them feel loved.