Redpepper's journey

[redpepper]

Just need more smilies :eek::p:D

:rolleyes::)

[redpepper]

I had a lovely conversation today with a lovely man that I warned I would not be who he thinks I am at some point and he simply reminded me of some of the common friends we have and how he is with them... it made me smile and feel a whole lot better about being me. Complicated and simple all at the same time. I am truly blessed to have the pleasure of some really beautiful people who are "good" from inside to out in my midst.

I am in need of nothing. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

He's not just lovely..he's my role model! ;)

[redpepper]

Mono is going through some shit. He's not getting what he needs from me I fear, regardless of how I try. If I didn't have my own stuff going on I could be more present and be, I dunno, whatever he wants me to be. Stupid, I know. I realize I will always be going through stuff and that I will never be who he wants me to be regardless of how I try. Its my own insecurity that gets in the way. I know that. Having a mono partner means I am his everything. I fear I don't and can't live up to that sometimes.

Derby facilitated the women's group this month for the first time. I'm sure she did an excellent job. It was the first break in over two years for me. I was grateful for it. Derby is also going through stuff and I am kinda flailing there too. I am just here really, doing whatever, feeling inadequate and boring and not worth being with. I know, its not true, but its my shit and I am going to blog it anyway. Maybe I am just bored with myself.

PN is in the thick of major changes that he tells me about in a profound way. I think we are awesome and fucked up all at the same time. No idea what the hell we are doing.

PN saw Leo's wife today. It seems they might spend some time together. Maybe LB will get to see his friends. Leo said that maybe it was me LB's friends parents didn't want to spend time with. If that is the case then I am glad to step back and allow PN to be the one who facilitates him continuing his friendships. I am glad to step back and have everyone make the most out of the situation. I don't want the hatred she feels towards me and the pain I feel to influence anyone else's friendships together. I am filled with compersion and happy to let it go with the blessing of happy friendships. Never thought compersion could be established in such a way.

Life seems to be about starting new friendships lately or spending time with people that I think are worth investing in; people that have proven to be stable and like minded in terms of investing for the long haul. I have an old friend that I have connected with who is leaving soon. It makes me sad as I have seen him go through a complete transformation in his life and he is stronger and more beautiful than ever. He continues to be rooted in similar values to me in terms of nurturing relationships that are important. It makes me sad that we will be parted, but its time he move on and get out of here to see the world again. In his place a new friend has come along. The one of which I spoke in my last post (I don't know what Mono means by his "role model," I will have to ask him). This friend is confusing me. He has been around for awhile, supporting me by coming to my shows, always telling me how he thinks I'm a positive person who brings a smile to his face. He is so pure with his dedication and ideas on who he thinks I am. I fear he is delusional. I am finding it hard to trust that I won't appear as something different with the passing of time. Paranoia. I guess time will tell. He is another mono man. A mono man with a poly girlfriend. She has encouraged him and I to spend time together for awhile, but its just not happened. Not sure where this going. I'm so confused about it.

Tonight I sit alone at a local bar, texting my new friend to stay at home. My beer is done. I'm filled with sorrow at the loss of my old 'nacho and beer' love. The blue grass band is starting up and I think I will just go home.

[StreetRacer]

Hey RP, I read a few of your first posts, and then a few of your most recent ones. Seems like you have a very interesting life, relationship wise I mean, and being new here it's really intriguing, but in a good way :)
It seems you are also going through some troubles, :(
but on the other hand you seem like a very strong and positive person
so i have little doubt there isnt much you cant overcome :)
looking forward to reading more

[sage]

Hi RP
I haven't been on the forum for ages due to study, work and having sorted out our polymono status to the point where it is no longer and issue for us. Nycindie messaged me to remind me to get rid of the links to my blog (which I have taken down) and I just had to check in on your blog to see how you are going.

I found the rather sad post of a few days ago very interesting. It added weight to my suspicions that in polyamorous relationships it is more difficult to maintain the depth of relatedness over the long term.

Take care and try not to be sad, you have so many people in your life that love you.

Sage

[nycindie]

Nycindie messaged me to remind me to get rid of the links to my blog (which I have taken down)...
LOL, well, I didn't ask you to get rid of your links. I just wanted to know where your blog was. I do hope you've saved the pages and will consider moving it to another server or blog host, even if you can't add to it. There was some lovely reading there.

[redpepper]

Thanks Sage, streetracer. I'm doing great and I will be fine. :) life is not so dramatic. It seems so on here, but really its just ticking along.

I am happy that people are moving on and finding ways to re-connect even if Leo and I aren't. I am not sure what will happen but I have heard of a few times where the water has been tested and has only been found warm to the question of friendships staying in tact. Its a shame I will likely not ever be friends with her boyfriend as a result of all this. I immediately cut all contact out of respect and assurance that I am not interested in dating him (it was he that thought all that up). Maybe in time I will say hi on fb chat or something and see how he's doing. I miss talking to him there. We did for many months.

Its interesting that what I miss the most is the texts, chats, emails, IM's and other things that took time out of my day. Those kind of things made my day and now they are gone I miss them. I have been filling the space in slowly with new people. My happiness has returned slowly even if I am very cautious right now about whether I am welcome.

We had a fire on the beach last night to celebrate the full moon. There was a great group of us there all talking at once, happy for a relatively warm spring night and a chance at being reminded that summer is around the corner. It was interesting to see how my presence was with my new friends girlfriend. I think she was okay. Maybe a liiiittle threatened. Not too much I don't think. I know what its like to be in her position so I remained inclusive and friendly to everyone, including her. There is no threat, but she doesn't know that.

I am liking the attention, the excitement of someone being interested in me again and reminding myself that so far its only that. Its not a situation of crossing over to partnership I don't think. I need to be careful that I don't fall into thinking that its more than friendship. I don't know what will happen.

I have expressed that I am a friend that I don't want to use this friendship to fill the void I feel over losing Leo. I don't think its an issue I just don't want to be selfish. The only reply I got was that we would be using each other because he needs my positive energy and I need to be appreciated for it. I will go with that for now. :)

Poly friendships are confusing. The assumption that its more is always there and it makes it all, well, awkward. Its all so all or nothing sometime and everyone watches to see what's going on. Monogamy is so cut and dry, friends, not friends. Once partnered, everyone else is friend material and the depth of more is not invited, intended or considered. Hard work going on. As usual.

[redpepper]

I had a really good convo with my friends partner today after I wrote. She called to get some of her thoughts off of her chest even though it was advised that she not do that from my friend. I am so glad she did. I much prefer those hard conversations that are filled with fear and tears than _nothing_. It makes me feel that I am approachable, trustworthy and a good metamour to be relied upon for the truth and some bonding over the wonderfulness of the person that we both care about.

Now to go about creating an open and honest ring of communication between all of us so that she doesn't feel threatened needlessly again. My friend and I might as well be dating the amount of effort going into this in under a week... LOL!...

Poly cracks me up! :D

[redpepper]

"Change is what happens when the pain of remaining the same becomes greater than the pain of changing." Marilyn Schiltz


About now? This feels right. ;)

When I think of where I was this time last year and all the changes that have gone on outside of my immediate family I am filled with wonder. It seems like the cycle continues, change is coming and has come. The pain of remaining the same is less and less. The pain of change has been more prominent, but is waning slowly. A process is coming to an end and new things begin with the spring. :) I feel it with my loves as well, things are turning and churning...

[redpepper]

Holding the knowledge of loves exsistence very tenderly and giving love in return whenever I can.

This week has been filled with returns of old loves. Not on purpose. Its just happening. Its been a blessing to receive their apologize and explanations and get a chance to espress myself. I'm overwhelmed, feel the closure, feel the grief subside in many ways and my heart is opened with their love. Much more to come I think. I wish for some pacing though, its a lot to take in.

[Derbylicious]

You have such a way with words. I'm glad you're getting some closure.

[redpepper]

I just realized something that has made me feel a fool. Leo always said he and his wife are not poly, they have an "open relationship." We talked a lot about poly and what it means to me and others and he never committed to the term. I think it kind of irritated him really. I don't know what the hell we had together as open relationships are usually about sex and we didn't have that, but the mind set seems to be very different, or at least different for them and this is where I should of realized a bit more what was going on. What I could of done differently I don't know. Just a random thought in the long process to get my head above the water.

Life has been ticking along and been consumed with burlesque, lazik eye surgery, spring, many happy family moments, a hot night with my Derby girl and PN's birthday. Ahhhhh, its all good. :D

The new man in my life is interesting and attentive. Ahhhh NRE. I am enjoying his attention in great mouth fulls. He has loved me for some time he says. A good 18 months. I have seen it on his face as plain as day and have chosen, until now, to ignore it. It sooths me to know I am loved and it makes me feel worthy of loving again.

He is kind, caring, listens to every word I say, follows me with his eyes around the room and is dedicated to seeing what the heck will happen. I am skeptical. I feel as if I am using him. I have told him this and feel like I can write it down as a result. I am not able to trust that the moment I allow myself to love him, even just as a friend, that I will be slapped on the wrist for doing so and someone will say, "no! Don't touch. He's mine! Get your hands off!" and convince him I am bad in some way that makes him want to leave. Such is my repetitive history. I am concerned that my attraction to him is simply because I am hurt and he is rescuing me from that. He knows I feel this way and doesn't seem to be concerned himself or changing course.

He talks of the importance of freedom and the importance of not being glued to any one person, but there is a strong woman in his life who is my friend and I don't want to loose that. My friend is very forthcoming with her triggers about us hanging out and expresses them immediately. I am grateful for that. I have been able to walk with her through her jealousy and the threat she thinks I am by texting and talking with her. She has had others to help also, but I am grateful that she has chosen to include me in her struggle. It is making our relationship of trust stronger as a result I think. I hope. That is my intent any way. I intend to keep my integrity where others have not with her.

Yesterday I got to finally say what I have been holding in to this man in terms of my fears and where I am coming from in regards to where I think this is going as a result. I am not ready or willing to be even remotely considering another deep relationship of connection and bonding with someone. I don't trust that I will not be hurt at the end. I have had too many experiences of being told that I am no longer welcome in peoples lives and just can't do it right now. I am working on that. Besides I have enough in my life.

I am seeing an ex-boyfriend today (by my definition, not his, I was just his fuck toy). Last time I saw him, by chance, at an event I am participating in, he was apologetic, thanked me for all the learning he did because of me and asked if we could be friends (greeeeat, what did I get out of that?). Today I will see him as a friend. Wish me luck. My heart is heavy, but I am determined to not allow myself to think of the past and what I felt like then. I am determined to move forward with dignity and grace so that we can both move on. I don't want him to hold on to his pain either.

I find it really interesting that over and over again I am such a great catch for people who are starting out in poly because I have experience. My new friend commented on this. He said that he was really pleased that it turns out I am so self aware and know how poly theory works in practice. I imagine in makes him feel comfortable that I can look after myself and know what it is that he is trying to achieve. That I am willing to negotiate and set boundaries with ease.

He said he has decided not to date women that are not poly anymore as a result. He doesn't want to teach them about what he is looking for. He wants them to know, as I do. The thing is, and what I explained to him is, that it sometimes means that I get used in that process. Just as I did with many old boyfriends.... over and over again. Shit gets hard and they fuck off because they either can't handle it or don't see it working for them any more where they swore up and down that poly makes so much sense to them.... more skepticism. See. I have a long way to go before I open up to anyones out pour of love..... :( sad. I must get over this.

Sorry about this choppy post. I am having to leave before editing. This one is simple a regurgitation of many thoughts I needed to get out.

[nycindie]

RP,
Just go there to meet him knowing who you are today, and don't let yourself get wrapped up in who you were back then. Think about all the beauty and joy you have in your life right now. Remember that you are strong!

My old boss had a favorite phrase: "Don't let the bastards get you down." Don't know why I love it so much but it's helpful when I feel like the world has conspired against me.

[redpepper]

"Don't let the bastards get you down."Isn't that from a Rhianna song also... :D You don't stirke me as the type to listen to Rhianna.:p I didn't know it was from anything else actually. I have sung that often in the last few months. Its a great phrase.

It went okay. There was nothing there for me. Nothing but a faint love of what we had. A small smile of appreciation for some of the moments I remember us having and a whole lot of being really done.

He was very repetitive and we talked about much of the same things as when I saw him by accident last week. Then I got an email that repeated it again... four times now? I think four times he has said how great his life is? What does that mean? His life is great? Or is there something that I am suppose to get from that? A hidden message of some sort? I dunno :confused:

Apart from that he told me he got his tests done and is clean and details that I didn't really want to hear about him and his girlfriend. I was confused and a bit put off by all that. I didn't really want to know. I tried to change the conversation to something different but he went back to the same stuff.

I understand that he doesn't have many people to talk to that understand and that sometimes that kind of thing feels good to release to someone that gets it. I understand that he was trying to let me know how well he was doing and how much has changed in terms of being free to pursue others. I also understood that he was feeling close to me because of our past and what we had together.... but that is over. We aren't even friends at this point and it was just too much by the end of our conversation.

In the email he asked to meet me again for a beer. I dunno.... I don't see why exactly. Really? What do we have to meet for? There is nothing else going to happen between us, I felt like it was likely he would say the same things again and as far as I could see there was not much else to base a friendship on, so why? Sigh.... I have to think about it.

I just don't have the energy, desire, capacity within me to be used as a vessel of someone else's information about their sex life. Especially someone I HAD a sex life with. I don't know if its jealousy? Maybe... I was the one that lost that and he had it with another woman not six months later... he has a FANTASTIC sex life with his wife now too.... whoooopy! SO glad that YOU got something from my misery and hurt. Sigh. :) Its all too much sometimes. I will give it time.

[Arrowbound]

Isn't that from a Rhianna song also... :D You don't stirke me as the type to listen to Rhianna.:p I didn't know it was from anything else actually. I have sung that often in the last few months. Its a great phrase.

It went okay. There was nothing there for me. Nothing but a faint love of what we had. A small smile of appreciation for some of the moments I remember us having and a whole lot of being really done.

He was very repetitive and we talked about much of the same things as when I saw him by accident last week. Then I got an email that repeated it again... four times now? I think four times he has said how great his life is? What does that mean? His life is great? Or is there something that I am suppose to get from that? A hidden message of some sort? I dunno :confused:

Apart from that he told me he got his tests done and is clean and details that I didn't really want to hear about him and his girlfriend. I was confused and a bit put off by all that. I didn't really want to know. I tried to change the conversation to something different but he went back to the same stuff.

I understand that he doesn't have many people to talk to that understand and that sometimes that kind of thing feels good to release to someone that gets it. I understand that he was trying to let me know how well he was doing and how much has changed in terms of being free to pursue others. I also understood that he was feeling close to me because of our past and what we had together.... but that is over. We aren't even friends at this point and it was just too much by the end of our conversation.

In the email he asked to meet me again for a beer. I dunno.... I don't see why exactly. Really? What do we have to meet for? There is nothing else going to happen between us, I felt like it was likely he would say the same things again and as far as I could see there was not much else to base a friendship on, so why? Sigh.... I have to think about it.

I just don't have the energy, desire, capacity within me to be used as a vessel of someone else's information about their sex life. Especially someone I HAD a sex life with. I don't know if its jealousy? Maybe... I was the one that lost that and he had it with another woman not six months later... he has a FANTASTIC sex life with his wife now too.... whoooopy! SO glad that YOU got something from my misery and hurt. Sigh. :) Its all too much sometimes. I will give it time.

Haha you took the words outta my mouth about the Rihanna reference Red...

About the ex, boy does he sound familiar. I remember mine giving me unnecessary details about his current sex life, in a way that was designed to make me feel inadequate. It didn't even sink in til days later, and at that point all I could do was laugh.

If he offered himself to me tomorrow I'd happily grin and say, "No thanks. I don't miss it, if that's what you're asking."

:D

[redpepper]

If he offered himself to me tomorrow I'd happily grin and say, "No thanks. I don't miss it, if that's what you're asking."
:Dthat's too funny! I never thought that might be what he is wondering! I guess it might be that or that he feels like he has his prowess back and wants me to know it. Ha! :D interesting.

[Arrowbound]

that's too funny! I never thought that might be what he is wondering! I guess it might be that or that he feels like he has his prowess back and wants me to know it. Ha! :D interesting.

It's very much a possibility I bet. Reaching out for an ego stroking. :rolleyes:

[Derbylicious]

I just don't have the energy, desire, capacity within me to be used as a vessel of someone else's information about their sex life. Especially someone I HAD a sex life with. I don't know if its jealousy? Maybe... I was the one that lost that and he had it with another woman not six months later... he has a FANTASTIC sex life with his wife now too.... whoooopy! SO glad that YOU got something from my misery and hurt. Sigh. :) Its all too much sometimes. I will give it time.

I wonder if you're feeling what you're feeling because there wasn't any closure for you when that relationship came to an abrupt halt. It seems that he's found that closure and isn't aware or doesn't have the empathy that you're still working on finding that closure. It probably doesn't help that the wounds from Leo are so fresh. I imagine that if you had crossed paths either 6 months ago or 6 months from now his stories wouldn't sting quite so much.

[nycindie]

Isn't that from a Rhianna song also... :D You don't stirke me as the type to listen to Rhianna.:p I didn't know it was from anything else actually. I have sung that often in the last few months. Its a great phrase.
Hahaha, no, you're right, I don't listen to Rhianna. I'm not even sure if I know who she is - when I see that name, I think of "Rhiannon" - the old Stevie Nicks song. I must be an old fart.

It was the early 90s when I had that boss who used that phrase. He said it was a translation of an old Gaelic saying - and he knew it in Gaelic too!

He was very repetitive and we talked about much of the same things as when I saw him by accident last week. Then I got an email that repeated it again... four times now? I think four times he has said how great his life is? Yeah, right - goodie for him but who asked? Geez.

Apart from that he told me he got his tests done and is clean...

In the email he asked to meet me again for a beer. I dunno.... I don't see why exactly....

Sigh.... I have to think about it.
Why in hell would he tell you about his tests??!! It sounds like he believes he's now ready to hook up with you again and is just assuming you'd want to or are always available. And he's living in the past. What a yutz. He reminds me of a time when I got together with an old boyfriend many years later and he kept telling me things I didn't want to know as if our past gave him permission to intrude on my personal space. It was very icky. And I realized what a bore the guy was and how much I had changed - no compatibility between us anymore. Thank goodness!

Why are you even thinking about getting together with him again? You try too hard to not have people dislike you, I think. In this case, I wouldn't worry about sparing his feelings. It's been over and done with for such a long time. I'd answer him like, "Oh, no thanks, I'm not really interested" in as bored a tone as possible to let him know the thought is about a million miles from what you'd even remotely consider.

[redpepper]

I wonder if you're feeling what you're feeling because there wasn't any closure for you when that relationship came to an abrupt halt. It seems that he's found that closure and isn't aware or doesn't have the empathy that you're still working on finding that closure. It probably doesn't help that the wounds from Leo are so fresh. I imagine that if you had crossed paths either 6 months ago or 6 months from now his stories wouldn't sting quite so much.I think its mostly because I realized he didn't really love me as I loved him. To him it was all about sex and I was a friend of his. He had a good time and so did I, but really, when push came to shove I was just a good lay to him. I gave a lot and we had some pretty crazy times.

I realized, when I saw him that I think I invested more in what we had than he did. I think he wants to see if he can have the sex back. It won't be happening. My heart has pushed him into friend space. That doesn't include sex. Its tentative because I won't be having sex with him and I expect that he will lose interest if there is no sex involved in any kind of new friendship we build. If that happens I will be likely be hurt again. I'm so fucking predictable. At least I know how these cycles go for me. :rolleyes:

[redpepper]

Hahaha, no, you're right, I don't listen to Rhianna. I'm not even sure if I know who she is - when I see that name, I think of "Rhiannon" - the old Stevie Nicks song. I must be an old fart. Ahhhh, but you're a lovable old fart. :D great song! So is the Rhianna one too.

Rhianna-Cheers (drink to that) (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR0v0i63PQ4&feature=fvwrel)
Stevie Nicks- Rhiannon (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyWq25O2RbI)

Ya, very different. Ha haha. :p
Why in hell would he tell you about his tests??!! It sounds like he believes he's now ready to hook up with you again and is just assuming you'd want to or are always available. And he's living in the past. What a yutz. He reminds me of a time when I got together with an old boyfriend many years later and he kept telling me things I didn't want to know as if our past gave him permission to intrude on my personal space. It was very icky. And I realized what a bore the guy was and how much I had changed - no compatibility between us anymore. Thank goodness!Yes, this is what I think is going on with him. Sigh... *head shake

Why are you even thinking about getting together with him again? You try too hard to not have people dislike you, I think. In this case, I wouldn't worry about sparing his feelings. It's been over and done with for such a long time. I'd answer him like, "Oh, no thanks, I'm not really interested" in as bored a tone as possible to let him know the thought is about a million miles from what you'd even remotely consider.Yes, yes I do. I learned that from my mother. She was always positive that people would turn around their dislike for her, and some times they did. I do the same thing, but really, sometimes there is too much water under the bridge.

I don't think its about dislike so much as I think its a lack of interest in sorting shit out on my part. I know I don't hate anyone. I am just not interested in them after a time, or ever. My Dad used to say hate is a very strong word and should be used very carefully. It sends out a message (energy is how I see it) that is very destructive.

I can't think of anything I hate really. There is reasons for everything if I just dig deeply enough or empathize enough. It doesn't make stuff right, or good, according to my values, but it means I can let hate go fast enough to not let it sink in.

Maybe I shouldn't spare his feelings. I am curious what would happen if I told him what I think is going on. If we ever do go for a beer I will be expressing what I see happening and will be letting him know that I don't wish to talk about his past women after me or the sex life he has now. I don't want to hear any more and if he continues to talk about it I won't go out to meet him again. He is an interesting man and we have had some great conversations apart from the ones I am confused about. Maybe we can meet and it isn't as I suspect.

Am I being naive again? Probably. :o

[redpepper]

This was an intense week in terms of stuff going on, but I am managing to hold my head above water so far.

I had a chance to be a human book last week at the local University library. I did the same event 18 months ago and came back to do it again. My title was something along the lines of not judging a book by its cover as I am a kinky, pansexual, polyamorous burlesquer. As usual the poly part was the most interesting to people. I got the chance to tell people about the calender site I host for poly events (in my sig (https://sites.google.com/site/polyeventsallover/Welcome)), talked to people about what poly means to me, counsel people, tell them specifics about poly and even a little stuff on burlesque. Very fun and tiring day.

Friday Mono and I had some friends over for some cider we made from the plums on our tree out front. Derby came along, PN came downstairs and my new friend. All four of us got one well. It was a nice night. A major deal for me as Mono isn't big on anyone coming into his space.

Unfortunately Mono said some stuff that I didn't understand that we needed to process afterwards and it meant that I stayed up all night. He said that he could have a girlfriend or someone he would have sex with as he has seen me do it, so why shouldn't he. My jaw dropped. We processed that for a long time after everyone left as he has always told me that if he ever says he wants other women it means we are done. I took it as we were done. He said that isn't what he meant so then I took it as he is poly! Which would mean that I would now have to adjust my life to him being completely different from what he said he is not. :eek: Turns out... as he indicated the next morning, that he is not poly, nor are we over because he wants other women. He simply meant that he has realized, since experiencing all I went through with my break up with Leo, that I really do love more than one person at a time. He really got that and empathized with me. He had not been able to until I was struggling with losing someone that is dear to me that I love. I had a good long nap after that out of sheer exhaustion and got up later to go and do my show.

Last night was an honour. I did my burlesque thing with two of the most popular and well know burlesquers in town. One of the two has invited me to do a show with her and to join her in a number. I am on top of the world! Three months ago there was nothing going on and it looked like everything was going to be shut down. The one thing that I really feel I am good at and have a talent for that gives me so much joy was going to end... and now its all shaping up to be quite the opposite. I am getting bookings from everywhere and have to turn some down!

I was over joyed to have not only my three lovely and amazing partners come and see me, but also my fantastic metamour, and also my new friend (who comes to all my shows anyway) and his girlfriend. I was so pleased they all had a great time and we were all together.

It was a night of staying clear of the the new friends girlfriend however as she is having a hard time accepting our new friendship and is very insecure about what it means. I have told him that I won't be spending a lot of time with him when she is around until its resolved as I don't want to be in the middle of it. He has already decided to not pass on info in case she has a hard time and I don't feel comfortable with that at all... I have told him that I won't lie to her if it comes up and suggested he start making sure that he tells her stuff and just letting her lose it as that is the only way he will build integrity. It's looking a bit like I am back on the train of being the poly veteran to his newbie status... It harked of DADT to me. He had never heard that term. Red flag! I'm being very cautious.

[redpepper]

Wellll, it was bound to happen. I was invited to the same party as Leo and his wife. Thankfully I asked if they would be there and could opt out even if I agreed to go before finding out. I have another party to go to so at least I could say I would see how it goes. It should be fun for them and I'm happy for them. Sad for me, happy for them. Is that compersion? I dunno.

[redpepper]

I had a walk with my new friends girl friend yesterday. She wanted to meet with me all last week. I knew that there was lots to talk about. I couldn't focus on much though as I had a show coming up and I thought I would be unable to be fully present and therefore disrespectful, so I put her off. Turns out that she had a hard time with that as I texted her bf all week every day and that was kind of like spending time with him that could of been spent talking to her about some of her triggers and concerns. I think she understands now that I wanted to be sure that I was able to spend a good chunk of time talking and concentrating on her where as I met him on work time briefly, and talked to him about casual stuff through text. Well, limited stuff anyway. There is only so much you can say in a sentence or two.

It seems that this "friendship" had gone into partnership in her head and in his heart. He was coming across as us "dating" now and she was having a hard time seeing it any other way. Mono and I have been joking that he is my mock bf and she my mock metamour. :p Really, I might as well be dating him, the amount of work we have all put in. :D What can I say, I'm a relationship geek. I like this stuff. Besides, she asked if I could be a pretend girlfriend so she could work on this stuff.

We managed to come to some boundary agreements by the end of the conversation that I intend to remember. I asked that she remind me if I forget and that I will do the same. I don't want to fall into that whole thing where someone forgets and the other gets bent out of shape about it and assumes that there is something else going on. Its better to check assumptions than let them fester into something bigger than they really are. It could take time to get on track with these boundaries.

So we agreed that regardless of what is going on between me and him, I am still friends with her and that just because she is not on my radar right now doesn't mean that I don't care about her or don't want to be her friend. Things ebb and flow and right now he is the one that can offer me the things in a friendship that I need right now (I talked about this in an earlier thread I believe). Later it might be that she does or that she finds others to be friends with and I am left waiting to hang out. Life and friendships are just like that and it doesn't mean that I think less of her, just there are other things going on right now. She wants to build our friendship and really, this is certainly doing just that. Just maybe not in the way she was thinking it would.

We agreed that if she doesn't know what is going on and is concerned that I might be being dishonest that she ask about it. If she thinks he is she will ask. There will be no more purposeful or assumed deception going on (she was going to ask him if he would agree to this boundary also).

We agreed that he needs to be supported and that we can come together to do that. This is all new to him (friendship? This is where the lines got blurry) and his past has left him in a position of being confused about what is okay to talk about and what isn't. What is okay to feel and what isn't. He seems to live in fear of being in trouble and I suggested that she thank him for telling him what his plans are or what he has done with me and leave it alone rather than cause more fear by bringing up her own assumptions and fears (this is where checking in will help I hope).

Lastly, when there is an issue that is bigger than just a quick check in we will meet up to talk about it. If it can be covered in an email or a text then we will do so, but if its a larger issue then I need to know a bit of detail as that is where I have fear. I have a hard time not knowing a bit of detail before meeting someone to "talk." Also, we will arrange to hang out and just have a good time too. After all, does it have to be all about process?!

So, day one on this and I haven't talked to him at all. I told him that I needed a break as I needed space. I feel very un-trusting of this situation and not ready for it. I told her yesterday that I am still struggling with the loss of Leo and that getting wrapped up in a couples issues and drama is a bit much for me right now, especially over a friendship. I don't know what the hell I am doing in this or how I got here. I don't feel at all like I want to be the guiding force behind their relationship dynamic and I could easily become that. I have more experience in relationships and I fear that I will either fuck up and it will be all my fault or that they will break up and it will be all my fault or that it will be quite obvious that I don't really want to hang out with them because I am over whelmed and not ready for more work on relationships and it will be all my fault.... basically I am not over believing that everything is always all my fault as I am not over believing that with Leo and his wife.... I don't think I want to get into anything with anyone, even acquaintances and people I come across let alone people who are my friends and are becoming potentially more than that. Sigh, I took the day off to decide what to do and really I don't know.

In the last few days I have been yelled at by people a couple of times over stuff that they either assumed was true about me and didn't bother to check out, or blew up because I was trying to be helpful in some way. I wonder some times why I don't blow up more over this stuff. I did nothing but sit like a dear in headlights and avoid in these situations. I used to stand up for myself. Now I see no point in trying. People decide what they want to decide regardless of what I do and say and how I am. They decide on a scale between a goddess on a pedestal to a babbling idiot that doesn't know what she is talking about. I can't think of how to budge them into realizing that I am struggling just as much with my humanity as they are and that just like them I change and grow and understand things differently all the time. What makes them think that they can speak to me in the way they do? Do I have a sticker on my head that says "Its okay, yell at me. I don't deserve respectful conversation and questioning?"

I have given up on the title of dominant woman these days. I'm done with the whole BDSM thing for now. I have found it has not helped my image in the community I am in and I don't want the title of Mistress I have bestowed on myself. To me that is all going underground where it is safe and cozy. I feel as if I have been places in a position of being like other doms that bark out orders to everyone just because they can and its expected. There are so many fucked up doms out there. I don't want to be associated. I wonder if I would be treated more gently if I kept my D/s life to myself more. I have spent a life time doing my best to put myself out there and making my self vulnerable as someone that is confident and secure in who I am and now I seem to be taking all that back...

Funny thing is that my new friends gf told me she noticed her bf was quick to respond when I asked him to do something she perceived was for me. He was quick to please me and he did. :D. She was pleased because she saw the sub in him. Sub potential. My nature will shine through regardless of what I do, I know that, but I am hoping that it will be softened and become more approachable in terms of negotiating space if I stop calling myself "Mistress." I don't need to claim that description. I can live it without the D/s and BDSM community. I can live poly without them too. Fuck em all really *shrug.
(not letting the bastards get me down... :p)

[redpepper]

“Intimacy: An ongoing process where two or more caring people share, as freely as possible, an exchange of their thoughts, feelings, hopes, dreams, experiences and time, in an atmosphere of mutual acceptance, commitment, tenderness and trust.”
(this may or may not involve sexual intimacy)

Someone described intimacy this way in one of the groups I am in. I liked it and intend to continue to strive for it. For some reason it brought me hope today. So I am re-posting. :) My heart is healed little by little :)

[Derbylicious]

I like that a lot.

[redpepper]

Another great talk today with my new friend. I texted his gf ahead of time to let her know I was meeting him and she encouraged me to tell him she was really glad. This was a marked change from being angry about it before.

We went over a lot of what the gf and I talked about when we met up and I went over how we all needed support to make this a friendship work for all of us. I don't think its going to be too big of a struggle from here on in, but if it is I will be very forward with what is going on for me and if I find that patience and pacing don't work then I will have to consider not being either of their friends as I don't have a lot of energy to spend on the situation.... really though, the discovery that I find it hard to trust due to fear, she finds it hard to let go of control due to fear and he finds it hard to let go of lieing due to fear means that we can all work together to build something around that rather than against it. Support each other by reassurance and create something positive for all of us. Getting rid of all fear.

Once that was discussed he seemed much more relaxed and sat closer to me and talked more in depth about himself than he has before. I got a chance to see what kind of potential there is for him to be a really loyal and supportive friend and how I can support him. I left feeling very content and fulfilled that I am amongst friends that understand me and want what I want, more intimacy like I talked about in my last post. :)

When we parted he held on to me tightly for a good long time. He was shaking and we breathed together for a time. It reminded me of one of my autism clients that requires hard and long hugs in order to ground and release his energy until he is calm... I let the moment go where it was meant to and it ended with him holding me firm on the shoulders and giving me a quick and thankful kiss. It was a loving moment of gratitude and I was left feeling humbled and blessed to of received such a moment.

[nycindie]

...the discovery that I find it hard to trust due to fear, she finds it hard to let go of control due to fear and he finds it hard to let go of lieing due to fear means that we can all work together to build something around that rather than against it. Support each other by reassurance and create something positive for all of us. Getting rid of all fear.Ahh, darlin' -- be careful of having that as a goal. Sometimes fears never go away, especially if they are rooted in our long-ago past, where we figured out our strategies for living. You could spend the rest of your days trying to get rid of fears. I've learned (and continue to learn) that it's more valuable to acknowledge and face our fears, and take action in spite of them. Have you ever read the book, Feel the Fear But Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers? You may want to check it out; it was recently revised.

[redpepper]

Ahh, darlin' -- be careful of having that as a goal. Sometimes fears never go away, especially if they are rooted in our long-ago past, where we figured out our strategies for living. You could spend the rest of your days trying to get rid of fears. I've learned (and continue to learn) that it's more valuable to acknowledge and face our fears, and take action in spite of them. Have you ever read the book, Feel the Fear But Do It Anyway by Susan Jeffers? You may want to check it out; it was recently revised.That book is like a bible around our house. Maybe I didn't say what I meant coherently? What we intend to do is feel the fear and do it anyway. Perhaps the fear will dissipate? I have known it to, but your right, sometimes it never goes away.

Keeping my head up though. Baby, baby, baby steps. Will the other shoe drop? Will I actually find that this "friendship" is worth something more? Those NRE days of getting to know someone are so deceptive. I wonder how he will feel when he sees what I am really like when the rose coloured glasses come off. My heart is prepared for the worst and kind of laughing it all off. I hope that isn't mean some how.

[nycindie]

I wonder how he will feel when he sees what I am really like when the rose coloured glasses come off.How could he not see more of what makes you beautiful, inside and out? Don't worry!

[redpepper]

I seemed to of pushed my men to the brink this weekend and don't know how to come back from it. I don't know if I did that or if they were already there. I suspect a bit of both.

PN was a mess yesterday before and after a discussion about the responsibility of our garden and how it is expected to be done and every year. Its like pulling teeth to get it done. The discussion led to other things on his mind. Mostly about his not getting his need to write more (among other things). We had it out until he came to a conclusion that left him happy and me emotionally exhausted, but content that we came away with something positive.

Our discussions influenced Mono who doesn't like our fighting I am sure. He bases a lot of his feelings of reassurance about what we have in our family on how PN and I are doing I think. Far more than he needs to. I think he has been feeling weighed down by all of us and not getting enough independence lately. He is not interested in helping out in the garden either (among other things) and resents that I even bring it up. Lately he seems to resent everything I do from needing to vent about something to even existing in his presents. Even asking him if I should go, if I should stay, what he wants me to do, where I should be is irritating to him it seems like. I seem to get eye rolls over everything I do lately.

Last night we went to visit some friends for a quiet drink and a chat. I went home at 1 after Mono said he wanted to stay the night. I was hurt and disappointed that he wanted to stay as it used to be that he wanted to spend every moment with me. I understood that he needed to spend time on his own and be independent so I left with that in mind and headed home.

I ended up not sleeping until well passed 4 due to my disappointment and sadness. I know it was silly. He is grown man and I never said he had to be by my side all the time. I guess I was just surprised. I don't do well with plans being changed and spontaneous to that level and transitioning to something different than what I expect to happen is hard for me. I lay there and realized that this was MY thing and for ME to get over until I fell asleep.

This morning we had an interview with a journalist of a magazine. We had arranged this time due to time changes and because it was the only opportunity for awhile to get us all in one place. Mono didn't show; even though he said he would be home by then. To me its a sign of the future. I have discovered that I need to do things on my own and stop expecting and relying on anyone doing things with me. I live in a house of independent people. I will be also and not expect that we do anything together any more.

Having three partners does not mean that I will always have someone by my side. In fact I had the experience of having someone by my side more often when I was monogamous. Having many partners does not mean things get done around the house. It does mean that when I need support I get a lot, but when it comes to giving it to all at once I have to give three times as much energy. Most of the time I am giving three times as much energy to all of them than I get in return even if I am receiving a lot also. Its more of everything. I ask for more and I receive more and I give more. Huge amounts come and go from me and into me. It overwhelms me most of the time.

This winter has brought changes that I didn't expect. I'm exhausted by them. Exhausted deep inside of me. I don't think I can continue on with this actually. I really think that I might just lose my mind. The more I am unable to cope, the more I feel what I have built slip away. I don't have the capacity to hold it together any more. The responsibility has become too large. I love my life and all my loves, but with PN going through stuff, Mono going through stuff and feeling like I have no idea what is going on for Derby at all.... as she doesn't say much... I have nothing left for me.

Someone told me that they see me as the emotional caretaker of the community this last week. She saw that I was vulnerable emotionally in a moment where I expressed what I was afraid of and why I find it hard to trust sometimes. Apparently I am not suppose to be the one that is on the verge of crumbling as I am seen as the solid pillar of strength for a lot of people. Well, I'm not. I never have been. Right now I am certainly not in a position to be a pillar for anyone, yet its expected from everyone and people come looking for me for that strength.

I was hoping for some rest this weekend. Or at least some work done that doesn't require emotional energy. I used up my physical and emotional energy. I am starting a work week more drained than I feel at the end of a work week.

I'm going to Vegas at the end of this week. Three nights left until I go. I might not come back. Running away seems about the best option right now as I am afraid to stay here.

[NovemberRain]

Oh ms. red, I'm so sorry you're feeling all drained. :( I, myself, love the running away fantasy. I always fantasize about running away to San Diego (though Hawaii would be better) where I would never need a coat.

I bet you can get some renewal and rest in Vegas, and I bet you can get through three more days.

hang in...

[redpepper]

Thanks NovemberRain. My head is down and I'm plowing through.

[InfinitePossibility]

I just wanted to say that I hope your trip away helps you feel a bit better.

I've found that dealing with loss of an important relationship has made me fearful and questioning of other relationships in my life. Grief is not easy I think and doesn't go away quickly.

IP

[rory]

Sorry you're feeling so exhausted.

I wonder if your being a hinge between the men, or your being a woman, might have an effect so that you may easily become the one who gets the responsibility of things getting done, like the garden? I also wonder, since it seemed that it used to be that Mono was very helpful in the beginning of the co-habitation, if he felt he needed to "earn" the right to live there with you all, and now that he maybe feels more like he has the right, he feels he doesn't need to participate as much? Additionally, could the feelings of tiredness be a sign that you need better boundaries, in order to not give more energy than you are able to? Maybe you won't be able to give as much when you're going through stuff yourself.

Just some thoughts I had, I don't know if true in any way so take it or leave it. Take care.

[BrigidsDaughter]

I am sorry that you are going through such a rough time, Redpepper. I will tell you the same thing that I tell Wendigo and Runic Wolf when they are going through something that I can't fathom or heal the hurt from. I wish that I know he magic words to erase all the pain you're in; to restore your sense of balance and self; but I don't. I'm not sure such a thing exists, but I'm here if you need me.

With Runic Wolf's depression and Wendigo's living situation, there are often times when I feel overwhelmed by giving them all that I have and realizing that it isn't enough to keep a smile on their faces. It physically hurts for me to see the people I care about hurting; ah the problems of being an empath; so at times I need to withdraw myself from a situation where I feel like I'm not helping and maybe your loves are doing that as well. They rallied to your side when you needed them, but even combined, it wasn't enough to heal your hurt and restore you to the Redpepper they love.

Perhaps they are lost and confused as to what to do and need to take some time and space for themselves as well so that they don't get sucked into the feeling of frustration and hurt at not being able to "fix" you. I know that I get that way sometimes. I blame myself for not being able to make it right for them, though I didn't make it wrong in the first place. Just some food for thought. PM me if you need to talk.

[opalescent]

Oh, RP! Even this non-empath can feel the pain in that post.

I tend to be more of a taker of emotional energy than someone who gives it out. I've become more aware of this over time and I now consciously work on not being only a taker and not a giver. Beaker is more like you - she is a natural giver of energy, an empath, and someone who likes helping people through emotional support. I had to learn to give more, and do so consciously, so I did not drain her. She had to learn to pull back and give less. Most of the time we did ok with this but it was always something we needed to deal with.

It's perhaps time to give less. Prioritize you and your needs. This will be hard, on you and on your loves. Especially for your men, you are their foundation. But you need to be shaky right now in order to grow and figure this hard patch out. (And it will pass.) They need to be more of their own foundations now as well as figure out how to send you more support so you can rebuild and eventually not be shaky.

Consider also that they may not fully know how to recharge you emotionally. I didn't. Or they may be sending you energy and supporting you in ways that you may not see, or in ways that just don't work for you. I had to figure out how to be less draining and give more as Beaker wasn't getting what she needed. Your loves adore you - I am sure they would work with you to rebalance yourself and your relationships.

[Arrowbound]

*hugs*

I'm sorry you're having such a hard time right now Red.

The trip away sounds like a good idea; there are many many times I wish I could just go be somewhere else for a while, to centre myself, to listen to nothing but air, to recharge and regain the energy to revamp.

I hope it does everything for you that it needs to. Just remember to breathe, and pace, and invoke as much calm as you possibly can in the meantime. If you need to just stop for a minute, then do it.

[CielDuMatin]

Just trying to catch up after a long absence, and I see this post.

RP, you say that you feel like you are someone that a lot of folks look up to when it comes to poly and life. I think that is true. However, the fact that you are willing to express some of what you are going through right now for others to see shows that even the folks that we look up to have issues and are not some utopian vision of what a particular life should be. Don't be afraid to let them see that you are human and have these rough times too.

It's sounding to me like the synergistic energies that you used to have aren't really felt by you any more - if anything, it sounds like you feel that for each of your, life together is more a matter of finding compromises (1+1+1 = 0.75) rather than finding energy from each other (1+1+1 = 4).

For me (and I'm speaking from my own paradigms here) - I don't do well when I feel things are fractured - I need to feel like everyone involved is working to support a common goal or set of goals. When that starts breaking down, I feel the need to try to refocus us all, to maybe review the goals so that we can all get enthusiastically behind them again.

I find it easy to get bogged down in the various aspects of my life - and sometimes those become things that pull me aware from the Core - the things I value the most - I'm sure it happens to everyone in one form or another. Sometimes we all just need some reminders of what our priorities are, you know?

I really feel for you.

[redpepper]

There has been much going on but I don't have time to write much right now. Thanks for all the replies all. I wish this forum had a like button :p I'm feeling much better now. Things are in the works.

Things are going better this week. Mono has realized that he has a habit of sabotaging a good thing when he finds it hard to know where to go next and starts getting depressed. We have worked out what to do next time. The occurrences of the other night have given me a precedent to fall back on and I intend to use it. I intend to remind him that I am not going anywhere and that I love him and will kick his ass until he gets his act together. He has agreed to this, even though he swears there will be no next time. We have had a great week of bonded love making and connection. We shall see how much gardening gets done as a result. :D

PN and I have also had our "bonding" time and while the garden is at least mowed, there is much more to do... among other things. Everyones mood is better though. Maybe because I am going away? :rolleyes:

It seems Mono's boundaries are moved. He has decided that its okay for me to be free to consider other people as options to date and have sex with. This leaves my new friend in a new position. Or at least leaves me in a position of looking at him differently. I am wondering where this will go now that he has given me the okay to take it as it comes. I told Derby about it all and she seems to think he is an okay option, should I choose. My biggest concern is his gf and PN if I should decide to consider him as someone worthy of dating. Time will tell.

I'm off to Vegas for the long weekend with my ex wife. First trip out of Canada by plane in 8 years. I didn't realize all that goes into flying now! I am so excited, but it means leaving the forum for the time I'm gone I think. First time for that too in three years. Behave people! :p

[Arrowbound]

EEK!!!!!!! So excited for you! Have fun for me too while you're there, lol!

[redpepper]

What an awesome holiday. :) Nothing but go go go. Of course! That's how I roll! :D I did sit by the pool for a couple of hours though. I had a great time, but missed my diverse life. I am so much more appreciative of all I have. I appreciated the time away too. Nothing like some space to gain perspective.

It looks like my ex is staying put for now as she loves her life there. She is finished school this year and is planning on looking for a job there. It was great to spend a huge chunk of time with her. We got along great. She took me to some places that she knew because she lives near there so I got to see some of local life. I prefer that. It made me realize how openly diverse my life is. I got a chance to see what it feels like to be an odd duck in the world more than I do here.

Onward to working on the show this weekend and catching up with my loves. I spent the afternoon with Mono, PN and LB yesterday. I showed them all the pictures and gave them their presents. Today I'm off to see Derby and check in with her. I plan to see my new friend some time to see about creating some space between us. I think I am prefering to leave him to do the work he needs to do with his gf. It seems I might be making it worse by being in his life. Some time away might help.

[redpepper]

Oh forum how I miss thee.

It's been a busy busy week and isn't letting up. Right now I am gearing up for tonights big burlesque show. First big show since the Christmas one... actually before that as we have some out of town performers coming. I'm so excited and nervous right now, but trying to breath and take in a lovely sunny day here.

Up dates... okay lets see. Leo's wife has contacted PN and wants to hang out. I am fine with that and encouraging it but also very emotional about is as well as the intent is to talk about what happened this winter. Well, at least PN's anyway. PN is anxious to hear what happened for her in all this as all of us figure that its was all a grand misunderstanding and a moment of confusion, too much information and high emotions. I am really finding myself feeling very vulnerable and emotional about it, but.... well, whatever. Such is life. I'm not about to stop anyone hanging out because of how I feel. I just have to deal and get through it.

My new friend has broken up with his girlfriend. He has realized, through talks with me and through his history with her that there are parts of their relationship that are not going to change. He is keen to see about us getting together as an item, but I have put him off due to his break up. It seems to me that the most ethical thing to do in the spirit of compassion, remaining honest in my communication with her (she is a more close friend of mine), and having integrity, that I go at her pace and let some time pass before jumping into the idea that me and my new friend could be more than just friends. He also needs time too as its been a rough couple of weeks and he is finding himself bombarded with his own issues, emotions, and in need of grounding and new perspecitve. So, we all wait and see where all this is going. Little steps will reveal what could be and eventually what the best choices are. Part of me suspects that he will move on and that I am the person that was the catalyst in his continuing life journey of self discovery. I don't know yet. If that is the case, it will be revealed.

Life at home and with Derby is great. Its been a bonding experience between us in the events of this weeks break up of our friends. Its hard work being supportive and knowing where our own personal boundaries are. Each of our friends has relied on us in different ways and need support this week. It makes things a little on the sad side not to mention frustrating when there are other things going on in life and support isn't always easy to give.

So dear forum... I hope to catch up next week. I have a hard time knowing that there are now pages of threads I haven't looked at. I am letting it go, but its a strange feeling just the same. ;)

Hope to lose a pastie tonight. As they say in the bizzzzz. heh. :D After being in Vegas I feel rather pathetic, but, whatever, this isn't Vegas, but we sure know how to have a good time just the same. :p

[redpepper]

I'm slowly getting to know my new friend and like what I am finding. He is interested in something more. That is very evident. I am waiting patiently to see what happens in time and with some healing from the relationship he had that just ended.

I can see that all the ingredients I would look for in a partner are there including the necessity for huge amounts of independence in terms of time (I don't have much... surprise :eek:), a considerate nature in terms of commitment to others of importance in his life, indication that life is to be filled with exiting new adventures and the fulfilling of goals, diligence in working on his issues, valuing sexuality and physical aspects of his body and others as sacred, importance of pacing oneself and viewing life as an unfolding process that need not be rushed, especially if one is to have something full and rich, tons of expression of emotion, intellectual thoughts on various topics.... I dunno. Lots more that I look for.

I guess what I really don't know is how much of this is friendship and how much relationship worthy. Mono has been spending some time with our friend (Derby had a coffee with him at one point too) and I think is plowing through his thoughts on the possibility of me being with him. They get along very well and are very similar in a lot of ways. Do I really need another Mono, who isn't mono?! HA! :D Not really I don't think... then what would be a good enough reason to date this man other than he really loves me and tells me that quite often?

[nycindie]

... then what would be a good enough reason to date this man other than he really loves me and tells me that quite often?

Oh, let's see... perhaps because the experience could enrich your life even further? Maybe because one can never have too much love and caring in one's life? Because it might be fun? Because not entering into it will always make you wonder if that was the right choice? Because you will learn more about another human being (always interesting!) and yourself? Because the opportunity is presenting itself and life is too short to pass up good opportunities?

;)

[redpepper]

Yes, yes, perhaps you're right nycindie :) smart lady that you are.

[LotusesandRoses]

The best way to feel alive is through living. You seem like a very extroverted lady, and if this person nurtures you and makes you feel good, by all means, enjoy it. Obviously he sees you as a wonderful person who is worth being with despite your time commitments. That's a pretty good indicator he's worth some of your time. :)

[redpepper]

@lutuesandroses-thanks for your kind words of wisdom :)

What a great week. A dinner date with my fabulous husband. A surprise visit from Derby on her way home from derby, and a coffee date. Mono bought himself a truck that I get to take out for a drive this weekend. At LB's school there are going to be some big changes that will only make it even more of an amazing place for him to be. My new friend has been hanging around the house, hanging out with Mono and offering to help with household stuff (you know how I love that!). Everything has been great this week :)

Off for a coffee with my new friend in an hour or so. I am wondering what will come out of that as it will be the first time we meet without major issues to talk about in his life. Perhaps some silent moments? I can gage my comfort level with others by those silent moments. Should be interesting. He has kissed me a couple of times briefly and I have remained at a distant. I think I will let that go this time and see what that brings in terms of my comfort and trust level.

[nycindie]

Oh, RP, have fun and enjoy! This new friend of yours sounds awesome! And it's really good and special that Mono is on board and supportive about it.

Besides, after such a long time trying to make an unworkable situation work with that schmuck who only wanted you for decoration, isn't it fun/nice/groovy/hot to be in the company of someone who is actually available and obviously interested!!

[redpepper]

Thanks NYCindie, I am enjoying seeing where it all goes. :) I don't think Leo is a scmuck and I don't think he only wanted me around as a decoration. I think we just missed our boat way back when and I think he just had other priorities other than me that pulled him away in the end. I don't really know what happened in the end, but I am sure there is stuff that I just didn't understand. He's on a different path now and whether it crosses mine again I don't know, but I don't hate him and don't think less of him. I think my understanding of things were different than his and it tore us apart. In the end we just were not compatitble at the time. It is what it is. :)

[redpepper]

Okay, I have to admit, I'm afraid. I'm doing my best to face my fears, but quite frankly I don't think I can without something solid to feel reassured about.

I'm afraid that Mono will hit the roof if I decide to make my new friend another partner, either that or leave me because he finds himself unable to handle it or loses interest in me sexually.

I'm afraid that Derby will feel left out due to constricted time or will be indoctrinated with my new friends ex needing support.

I'm afraid that PN will feel his sex life with me threatened as we don't have sex often. We get along better than ever, but our sex life is not very frequent. I fear he will be jealous.

I fear that I will be yelled at by my new friends ex. She is doing great according to him; really getting on with her life, working hard on herself. I wonder if she is doing that to prove a point or to get back at him in some way ("see, I don't need you"). I am waiting for the other shoe to drop as their break up has seemed too easy so far. Time will tell.

I'm afraid he is not getting his needs met sexually as he seems to of been used to a great sex life with his ex, just not a great relationship life. I am not putting out and although he says he doesn't want that and would rather not than wreck our friendship, I can see all over his face that he desires that closeness and wishes we had that together. He looks sad about it actually. I'm not sure what that is about but it makes me feel like he might think I am leading him on. I can't predict where my feelings will end up and so feel guilty that I am not able to give him what he needs. I have suggested several people he could date or have sex with, but he's waiting for me. Besides, he's decided that just sex is not going to work for him any more. He's had that and its not been a healthy situation for him.

This whole thing brings all the stuff with Leo up again and again. I feel very stuck. I know I have to just take a chance, but I can't seem to put myself over that edge because of this fear of being hurt, abandoned, making someone angry or disappointed, threatened or jealous.

I know it could very well be worth it just to see. I know I have no control over anyone but me. But when does considering others end and considering myself start? I am happy where I am at, I think. I have a full and busy life with some wonderful partners, family and friends. Do I really have room for more? Do I need more? Part of me reminds myself that love is abundant, time isn't. I spend little time with him and likely that will continue, I can't see how the time thing will change from what we have been doing for about 6 weeks now, its just my head that has to change and maybe a little bit of the circumstances.

I feel so anxious and uptight after the visit I had with him today. I told him that I would like to be asked on a date after a couple of months if he is interested in that, but I would prefer he bring it up with my partners first as a respect thing to them. I suggested he let them know he would like to ask me out when he is ready and we can have a proper date. He looked confused and said he would but wasn't sure why I would ask this. I told him because I wanted my partners to know that we would be hanging out together in a different way than what we have been. By way of being official about the difference some how. I'm not sure entirely why I need that. He has spoken to them and checked it out already. Maybe its a lot to ask as a boundary?

I dunno, I'm flailing here. I really am lost on this one. I'm hoping it will all come to light somehow. Patience, patience and pacing. Gah! Poly's hard work sometimes :) like all the time ;) :D

[Derbylicious]

Life has a way of working it's self out the way it's supposed to. The thought of change is always frightening. The thing is you're going to have to do what feels right for you. Like you've said to many other people here there isn't any hurry. I'm pretty sure I'm not just speaking for myself here I want to see you happy. If it's going to increase your happiness to include your new friend as a partner then that's what you should do. We regret things we chose not to do far more than things that we chose to do most of the time. Fears are normal and being able to put what you're afraid of out there means that you're going to be able to get the reassurance that you need.

[redpepper]

Thanks sweets :) Thanks though for being such a wonderful person in my life. You are very prescious to me. *hugs. See you later.

There is something sad about all this... I'm not sure what. My new friend seems sad and that makes me feel sad.

[SNeacail]

I'm afraid that PN will feel his sex life with me threatened as we don't have sex often. We get along better than ever, but our sex life is not very frequent. I fear he will be jealous.

Can I repeat what I've seen you tell others, TALK TO HIM. Now are you really afraid he would be jealous or are you feeling like you have been caught up in NRE and have been neglecting him? Sounds to me like possibly you are missing him. Sexy date nights are in order.

I'm afraid he is not getting his needs met sexually as he seems to of been used to a great sex life with his ex, just not a great relationship life.

This is NOT your responsibility to fix! Just because you enjoy his company and he might be sexually frustrated doesn't mean you have push yourself into something you don't really feel comfortable with yet.

I am not putting out and although he says he doesn't want that and would rather not than wreck our friendship, I can see all over his face that he desires that closeness and wishes we had that together. He looks sad about it actually. I'm not sure what that is about but it makes me feel like he might think I am leading him on. I can't predict where my feelings will end up and so feel guilty that I am not able to give him what he needs. I have suggested several people he could date or have sex with, but he's waiting for me. Besides, he's decided that just sex is not going to work for him any more. He's had that and its not been a healthy situation for him.

Stop stressing about what you think you read on his face. Sounds like you might be projecting things onto this guy based on your experience with Leo and others in your past. Stating that your not ready to cross certain lines is NOT leading him on and if he needs more it's his responsibility to speak up, not yours to guess and feel guilty about words unsaid.

Deep breath, sit back and just enjoy his company.

[redpepper]

Can I repeat what I've seen you tell others, TALK TO HIM. Now are you really afraid he would be jealous or are you feeling like you have been caught up in NRE and have been neglecting him? Sounds to me like possibly you are missing him. Sexy date nights are in order.I don't think I have been neglecting him in any other way than maybe sexually. I am trying not to feel guilty, because when I do I just put out and don't connect with him when we have sex. We've talked about it. Its not anything new. Its part of our usual eb and flow. We never really did have an exuberant sex life I don't think. Its good, but not frequent. Married sex can be like that sometimes for some people ;)

As for NRE I am not allowing myself to feel that and wonder if I really have any... Also something to wait and see about.

This is NOT your responsibility to fix! Just because you enjoy his company and he might be sexually frustrated doesn't mean you have push yourself into something you don't really feel comfortable with yet.Yes, I agree. I wouldn't and don't push myself to put out any more with anyone. I just end up feeling resentful, pressured and used when I do. I feel sad for him and that he misses that kind of closeness.

Stop stressing about what you think you read on his face. Sounds like you might be projecting things onto this guy based on your experience with Leo and others in your past. Stating that your not ready to cross certain lines is NOT leading him on and if he needs more it's his responsibility to speak up, not yours to guess and feel guilty about words unsaid.

Deep breath, sit back and just enjoy his company.It turns out I was right, he is feeling sad. Mostly about what he hasn't given to his kids due to his past. He realises now how much his life could of been different years ago I think and that it took so long to make those changes. I don't feel I can explain much more than that, but he is sad underneath the happy smile. He did tell me that I am a huge source of happiness in his life because I listen to him, ask questions, am teaching him some things and care about him in a way he has never had before. He says he loves me for that. It brings him happiness that I have become someone of value in his life in terms of being a reminder that he can ask for his needs to be met, feel worthy of love and attention and that he is worth working on issues with.

He does need to speak up and I do need to keep my boundaries. Thanks for that reminder and all your reminders SNeacail :)

[nycindie]

RP, I think there are a few things you need to do.

First, you just really need to ask yourself what you want. Not what you think will be best for everyone, not what you think might be expected of you, but what YOU want. When you're with your new friend (NF for short?), do you feel like you want to get closer, share more emotional and physical intimacy? Is there an urge or a tug that you cannot shake that you feel you must explore? Or are you perfectly satisfied with a close platonic friendship with him? It sounds like you want more than a platonic friendship, since you told him you'd like to go out on a date with him eventually.

Once you figure that out, you will know whether to back off and ask NF to respect your boundaries or to start talking more seriously with your current partners about this. And then take baby steps to renegotiate your agreements and boundaries with them. Maybe NF will be more like a FWB than a partner. I know that's not usually your thing, but it could work.

Regarding PN and Mono (I'm not including Derby since she's already read this and written to you, so she's in the loop), there is also nothing wrong with saying to them how confused and scared you are. "Hey guys, I'm confused and don't know what to do, and I worry about how you would feel if I have an additional lover, and I want to do everything I can to stay connected with you both." You say that you're afraid Mono will hit the roof - just try not to get defensive and wind up in a fight if he does. But somehow I think he won't. I think he will probably be willing to talk as much as you need to with him. Ask him to examine within himself if he can handle it or if he thinks he would lose interest in you. Ask him how committed he would be to you if there was one more man in your life. I know you will not take any steps unless you have reached some sort of agreement for how it can go.

NF is not Leo, so put that whole drama out of your mind. And realize that you and all your loves are not the same people you were when you were struggling with issues around that relationship. Everyone grows and changes.

[redpepper]

First, you just really need to ask yourself what you want. Not what you think will be best for everyone, not what you think might be expected of you, but what YOU want. When you're with your new friend (NF for short?), do you feel like you want to get closer, share more emotional and physical intimacy? Is there an urge or a tug that you cannot shake that you feel you must explore? Or are you perfectly satisfied with a close platonic friendship with him? It sounds like you want more than a platonic friendship, since you told him you'd like to go out on a date with him eventually.I feel the urge to be closer to him physically and emotionally, yes. I question whether or not its because I find him interesting and unique and it makes me want to know him more or if its because I am attracted to him beyond that.

I would have a close friendship with him, sure. I definitely don't want him out of my life or in it less than he is now. If nothing else I am sure we will be close friends.

I think that perhaps by asking him to ask me on a date at some point I am giving us a chance to be together outside of friendship to see how that would feel. Really all we have had is a few walks, coffee together and spent time with other people. A date where we go and do something for a longer period of time that involves going and doing something might help decide where we are going. I really can't tell by texting constantly and spending no more than an hour together at a time. You know how big I am on spending time with people. I never got into relationships where there is distance of any kind. Look at Leo and our once a month dates. They just didn't work for me. This is similar to that. I can't seem to figure it out because I don't think we have spent the right amount of quality time needed to really know where we are going.

Maybe NF will be more like a FWB than a partner. I know that's not usually your thing, but it could work.It could work. Remember way back when when I dated a friend and called him my "fancy?" He was more a friend than a partner. I could go there again. Maybe NF (shortening that is a good idea I think, thanks :rolleyes:) could be a tersiary. I don't like the idea of giving him a title that indicates his status though... I think it might be best to think of him as a certain person under a certain description and then not use the title out loud.

Regarding PN and Mono (I'm not including Derby since she's already read this and written to you, so she's in the loop), there is also nothing wrong with saying to them how confused and scared you are. "Hey guys, I'm confused and don't know what to do, and I worry about how you would feel if I have an additional lover, and I want to do everything I can to stay connected with you both." You say that you're afraid Mono will hit the roof - just try not to get defensive and wind up in a fight if he does. But somehow I think he won't. I think he will probably be willing to talk as much as you need to with him. Ask him to examine within himself if he can handle it or if he thinks he would lose interest in you. Ask him how committed he would be to you if there was one more man in your life. I know you will not take any steps unless you have reached some sort of agreement for how it can go.I have done all you suggest here... many times. Sometime I think more than I needed to and that everyone is just getting annoyed and waiting for me to say, "hey, we are dating" or "hey, we decided to be friends." I suspect I might get an eye roll and a response something like "its about freakin' time you figured that out."

You are right, I will not take any step unless I reach an agreement with them.

NF is not Leo, so put that whole drama out of your mind. And realize that you and all your loves are not the same people you were when you were struggling with issues around that relationship. Everyone grows and changes.Thanks :) I will do my best to remember that.

This relationship is vastly different in so many ways. I don't sense my disposableness like I did when I was with Leo (I did in the last year with him). I always thought I was seeing him on borrowed time. All the way through the years we were together. This man is eager to spend any second he can with me and often goes out of his way to see me. He will leave work to find me across the city to go for a walk for a half hour. No, this man is far more attentive to my needs than Leo ever was. I feel completely loved and honoured by him. His devotion to what we have is evident daily. I have even asked him if my texting, over thinking, questions and constant need to be in touch is bothering him and he has said absolutely not. He welcomes my contact and seeks me out if I don't contact him(I've tested that out several times). I suspect that he will find someone with more time at some point though. I worry that I am only a bridge to finding someone to be with that is more available. There is no doubt that he is NOT at all like Leo. Now that I think about it he is completely opposite in many ways. :)

[redpepper]

Thanks for all the insigthful questions. They have been super helpful. :)

[redpepper]

I can't remember where I was at from last time. :D

My new friend is becoming a fixture. Still no closer to figuring out the dating part of our relationship but that might be because he is still dealing with the break up he has been going through. She thinks he will come back it seems. He has three times before so I can see why. It usually occurs that he heads back after a couple of weeks. The pattern is that he gets lonely and she does too so she asks him to come over and he keeps going over until they are back together again. This time he is doing his best not to do that. I reminded him once of this pattern and that he doesn't need to do things he doesn't want to do so he wrote to her and explained that this time it has to be over. I too am waiting to see where this all goes.

He and I are becoming good friends in the mean time and I am grateful for our laughs together and his devotion to being near me. I was grateful today to him and the other two men when I got towed and had to pick LB up. He was at school and I had no car. Mono lent PN his truck and my friend picked me up to and took me to the towing company. Yay poly family! :)

I have begun chatting to a man I met on OKCupid this last week. We have a date this up coming Thursday that I am looking forward to. We seem to get along well via text and email. It will be fun to have someone to go out with again on a semi-regular basis. Wouldn't you know it but last week I was pining at a local pub by myself. I haven't felt the heart break feeling over Leo in huge chunks of time but that night I was torn apart as a result of someone triggering the feeling. The next day this man responded to my profile on OKC and asked if we could go out for beer and nachos! Strange and wonderful all at the same time. :D So pleased and excited!

PN is out with Leo's wife tonight for the first time since our break up. I am unsure if I want to know how it went when he comes in. I want to be on my game for tomorrow's burlesque show and don't know if I want to know anyway. I think I will just ask him how it all went and leave it at that. I don't know what they will talk about. Could be nothing to do with me. I will assume that is isn't a meet up to "talk" and carry on as such. I think that is best for me anyway. I'm glad that PN has his friend to talk to still. I hope he gets some questions answered for himself about whether or not its a good idea to continue on their friendship.

[BlackUnicorn]

I'm glad that PN has his friend to talk to still. I hope he gets some questions answered for himself about whether or not its a good idea to continue on their friendship.

I'm just starting to grasp how interconnected you all are. Don't you ever just get the urge to date someone from, say, Madagaskar? To avoid all this weird community criss-crossing of relationships and baggage?

[nycindie]

I'm just starting to grasp how interconnected you all are. Don't you ever just get the urge to date someone from, say, Madagaskar? To avoid all this weird community criss-crossing of relationships and baggage?

Why do you think it's weird? Nothing wrong with dating within a community. I used to belong to a large group of friends who were connected by these workshops we all used to take and retreats we went on. It was a big part of my life for six years, so we all got to know each other very well. And we all dated each other.

We used to call it recycling! There was one guy who dated at least ten women in the group, and we were all friends with each other. I dated quite a few guys from that group, and each of them dated quite a few women from the group. Then, a few years later, we'd be invited to a wedding. Little did the families know how well we all know the bride and groom! And this was a group of all straight monogamous people, so I would think it would work out even better with a poly community.

[BlackUnicorn]

I'm just thinking about what to do if there are explosive break-ups. Or if an STD spreads super-quickly in the community (I guess it would actually be easier to trace and contain). And how to protect everyone's privacy. Some people I know seem to get some weird satisfaction from knowing (both in the biblical and non-biblical sense) as many people as possible in the alt community. Like they are almost playing a sport-fucking game where they try to tag as many people as possible.

Don't get me wrong; I enjoy good gossip when gossip's due, but it just seems weirdly controlling to me for some to aim to know everything about everyone they are dating, used to date, could potentially date and all the dates of all the people already mentioned.

Maybe I'm naturally averse to small communities because I live in such small circles myself.

[nycindie]

I'm just thinking about what to do if there are explosive break-ups.You have lots of people to support you and get you through. I had a break up that upset me and yet still hung out with him and his new gf in our group. It was a great experience that helped me grow. We all talked openly about what was going on with everyone. Or if an STD spreads super-quickly in the community...Well, in the group I belonged to, this did not come up. If anyone had anything, it was dealt with privately.And how to protect everyone's privacy. Some people I know seem to get some weird satisfaction from knowing (both in the biblical and non-biblical sense) as many people as possible in the alt community... I enjoy good gossip when gossip's due, but it just seems weirdly controlling to me for some to aim to know everything about everyone they are dating, used to date, could potentially date and all the dates of all the people already mentioned.Well, for me, I don't tend to hang out with people who are that immature and calculating. That's the thing about only aligning oneself with the "alt" community. Is that really enough of a connection? Alternative interests attract lots of people who may or may not be emotionally/psychologically/spiritually healthy. The small communities I've been a part of were connected by a dedication to personal growth, and I wouldn't have been a part of those groups if I didn't already like the people who were in them first. We didn't really get into gossip, but that is a personal pet peeve of mine. If gossip was going on, I refused to participate. If anyone acted like an ass, they were taken to task by members (and leaders) of the group, either privately or within our gatherings, if appropriate. People who were inappropriate too many times were asked to leave the group.

Sorry for the hijack, RP!

[redpepper]

No worries :D I'm not sure where you got the idea how close the community is from that quote though. Where'd that quote come from? It seems like a long time ago that PN had a girl friend to talk to.

On Friday PN came back happy with his night out and content with his re-connection with Leo's wife. We didn't talk much of it other than what's going on with my exes life and where they are at with our break up. Nothing transpired after our break up that I hadn't thought would happen. Everything I thought of in terms of what happened for him and her seemed to of been what happened.

It seems the bulk of this issues at the time were around my writing here and his desire to end our relationship. Paranoia about everyone finding out details about his life. My stories a dime a dozen I'm sure. I tell people that all the time when they send PM's wanting me to delete their threads. Any one who reads the forums long enough would know that. What I write about is my opinion and there are no traceable names attached. Not to mention, none of my friends hung out with them. At least the ones that would read here. Why this blog warranted ending a three year relationship I don't know. It seems I just wasn't worth enough to work through it and he only wanted me as a friend so I was dispensible.

As to everything that was said to me in anger and everything that I was told she said? Well, apparently it was all in haste and in the moment. Somehow I am suppose to feel better that she told my husband that she doesn't hate me. That was kind of the gist I got through his second hand information and late night attempt to pass on what was said. Really, I'm not much better off knowing all that than I was before. It just seems like an attempted to put a bandaid on my feelings when I have been in a car crash.

The rest of the weekend was filled with burlesque, lots of touches, sex, good talks with people who I love and who love me and lots of texting with the guy I am going on a date with on Thursday. Life is good. I have everything I need :)

[redpepper]

We celebrated my new friends birthday yesterday (what was it suggested I call him? I forget). He was thrilled to bits to have hosted a party for himself. First time ever and he turned 54. The church he was in didn't allow birthdays. We sang happy birthday and I brought him cake. First time for that too.

It was very special to me that I was part of it. All of us were there; Derby, PN, LB and Mono. I think the other guests, who were meeting us for the first time, were a bit surprised that Derby and I are so close when we are together. I don't know if they knew about her and I. They did about the guys, but I don't show them much affection when we are all together. We kind of default to Derby and I cuddling or I cuddle up to my son.

My friend was very attentive and sweet. It was very evident that he was pleased everyone was meeting us and especially me. I spent some time manoeuvring away from his closeness so as to be sure that the others were okay. It was sweet, but I was a little overwhelmed. :)

It was a good night and in some way very pivotal for him and his life journey and for me in regards to him and that journey.

[SNeacail]

:D:):D

[redpepper]

I am so excited that my forum friend, LovingRadiance is coming to visit this weekend. Summers coming and I have made some really fun plans. I'm hoping that people will come to them :D I'm trying to get Catfish to come and visit and freetime... Maybe marksbabygirl? I've met many forum members over the years. Its been great to connect. I'm sure I have met more than I realize at various local events in Washington State and around here.

[rory]

I have been happy to read about the good developments you've been having. :)

[marksbabygirl]

I am so excited that my forum friend, LovingRadiance is coming to visit this weekend. Summers coming and I have made some really fun plans. I'm hoping that people will come to them :D I'm trying to get Catfish to come and visit and freetime... Maybe marksbabygirl? I've met many forum members over the years. Its been great to connect. I'm sure I have met more than I realize at various local events in Washington State and around here.

I'm hoping to make it over there... depends on what life throws me in the next 4 weeks.

I am looking forward to meeting you... at some point :p its a year or more overdue :p

[redpepper]

I had the most awesome week of dates and lovin'. :) Made me very happy and feel complete and in my groove again. The date I had on Thursday went swimmingly. I thought the guy was amazing and we were so compatible. He and I talked for hours over a plate of nachos that we barely touched. He is so on the same wavelength to me about communication, dating outside of his marriage, finding like minded people and creating family. He was so interested in my burlesque and listened while I told him all the ins and outs. He had wanted to come to my show last week but thought it might be rude to show up without my knowing and premature to ask without having met first. He was fit/active, warm, friendly, positive, spoke lovingly about everyone in his life, was dressed nicely, smelled good, showed emotion and vulnerability yet was confident and secure in himself and had a balanced life in all areas. I can see that he has potential to be someone in my life. I found him very attractive on so many levels.

Trouble is the time thing.... ya know? Ya, sucks. We are meeting again in two weeks, but he already wants to meet this week for lunch. I would meet him as much as possible if I could, but time does not allow. I am spending time with my friend too and of course my loves. There is just not enough me to go around. :( There is enough love, but not time.

This past weekend I had a singing gig and my new friend went along to see me. My parents went also and after there was a awkward moment of who would drive me home. My mum decided that he should, eventually, but was concerned that I might not be okay. She doesn't know him well. I was more than okay. I was taken out for drinks and we had a long chat about where things are going. I am very fond of this man and could easily see myself involved with him more. I just don't think that it will go that way. I see him involved with someone that can spend time with him and be there for him more. I will be very protective when some one comes along though, I don't deny that. I don't see that happening soon as things with his ex are still being processed and he needs a good long time to heal and re-focus his life on being his own primary.Who knows, maybe then things will be more clear, but for now we show each other affection and keep having moments of time together that make us connected and glad to be in each others life.

Mono seems to be filled with compersion. I don't get it. I look at him sideways and wait for the other shoe to drop. Some how his view on things has totally changed since Leo and I broke up. He won't tell me why yet, but I am just enjoying his comfort.

My ex wife came over today. I haven't seen her since I went to Vegas with her. She is a breath of fresh air... she gave me a long massage for my achy back after the show last weekend where I got thrown around lots in a Mexican wrestling number and after my parents treacherous move of agony from their house to a condo... Then we gardened. LB helped us buy the plants and put them in pots, and we planned the veggies but didn't get them in the ground. While we planted the men, including my new friend, painted the deck. It felt good to be together doing things. After we washed up and went to dinner with LovingRadiance! So much fun. She's a really great lady and I liked her company immensely. She is leaving tomorrow already unfortunately.

After this next weekend I have a show in a neighboring city, a birthday weekend at my parents place on a neighboring island... and then I am filling the calender with dates and time to costume for a couple of months. And some me time! Oh, ya, and trying to get the camper van on the road so I can leave to have me time. Maybe spend some time at my parents place on the island for me time too. I will try to book some time to do these things alone... chances are someone will come along. ;)

[redpepper]

I'm hoping to make it over there... depends on what life throws me in the next 4 weeks.

I am looking forward to meeting you... at some point :p its a year or more overdue :pPushing LR off in the row boat tomorrow morning. Look out for her ;) :D

[nycindie]

Mono seems to be filled with compersion. I don't get it. I look at him sideways and wait for the other shoe to drop. Some how his view on things has totally changed since Leo and I broke up. He won't tell me why yet, but I am just enjoying his comfort.Omigosh! Could he... you don't think... maybe he's... becoming poly??!!??!! :eek::p


j/k

[redpepper]

Omigosh! Could he... you don't think... maybe he's... becoming poly??!!??!! :eek::p


j/k
Well he definitely is getting that he can have an emotional connection to other women besides me. Other people in general. He has been spending time with his ex wife and a friend at work and cares about both of them. Even loves them. Beyond that I don't think he's given up his Mono status, just his description of what it means to be mono to him. What it means to be in a relationship.

Relationships can be committed on different levels and he gets that more now. Things aren't as black and white as he thought they are or should be. Love is expansive if its allowed to grow. Once he allowed that in his life, it grew. I think we are over the healing process he needed to go through and into a new and improved relationship of deep commitment to what we have. Commitment to our relationship. Now there is room to spread out with confidence and security in that commitment. Its a good day. :)

[SNeacail]

Relationships can be committed on different levels and he gets that more now. Things aren't as black and white as he thought they are or should be. Love is expansive if its allowed to grow. Once he allowed that in his life, it grew. I think we are over the healing process he needed to go through and into a new and improved relationship of deep commitment to what we have. Commitment to our relationship. Now there is room to spread out with confidence and security in that commitment. Its a good day. :)

It's weird to go through this, kinda amazing at the same time.

[redpepper]

I made sure that everyone I am seeing right now has seen this blog. Its mandatory for me, from now on, that they get regularly updated to what I say here so there will be no chance that they don't know what I say and don't get three years worth of select blogging at once. So far that has gone over well. No one has understood why I am insisting really, but it was a fearful few hours waiting for the incoming thoughts of what I have been saying. I pushed through it as I don't want to end up losing a relationship again, as I did with Leo, because of this blog.

My new friends ex has spent six weeks now in denial that its over and constantly texting, messaging and phoning him and various other people in his life. Including me. Last night she removed all of us from fb. I am hoping that is the end of it. It would of been fine if she had taken the break up seriously and taken the time to heal and moved on, but it got to a point of her thinking she had to sever ties completely and then sabotaging her relationships with everyone to make that break. To bad she didn't have the patience to just let everyone heal. Mostly herself.

I was hopeful for a bit, and grieving myself, but there has been too much said and there has been some clarity that is just too heavy to carry. I put down the load and said my good-byes.

[redpepper]

The sun is setting on a warm spring day. I am sitting listening to my Dad play his cello on the deck of the house that my Mum and Dad built after we turned over the property to them, via a lawyer, three years ago after they accused Mono of abusing our child (they wanted complete separation between us all back then). Back then I thought we would never be here again and here I sit listening to my brother and his girlfriend talk, my mum and Mono talking, my son and husband chatting and my ex wife tapping away on her key board. Seriously never thought... so fucking happy I could cry. All the hard work brought me and them here. Nothing else. And now, in this moment, nothing else matters in my world.

My only wish was that there were a few more people added. They know who they are? :)

[Derbylicious]

I miss you this evening too.

[redpepper]

I miss you this evening too.told you you'd know who you are. :D ;) miss you too sweets.

[Anneintherain]

The sun is setting on a warm spring day. I am sitting listening to my Dad play his cello on the deck of the house that my Mum and Dad built after we turned over the property to them, via a lawyer, three years ago after they accused Mono of abusing our child (they wanted complete separation between us all back then). Back then I thought we would never be here again and here I sit listening to my brother and his girlfriend talk, my mum and Mono talking, my son and husband chatting and my ex wife tapping away on her key board. Seriously never thought... so fucking happy I could cry. All the hard work brought me and them here. Nothing else. And now, in this moment, nothing else matters in my world.


That got me all misty eyed. It sounds really nice, and I'm glad you could get to this point with all the members of your "family".

[Arrowbound]

That sounds beautiful Red. :)

[redpepper]

I am was missing Leo this week. There, I admit it. :( Why? Well, it's the first camp of the year in my body and mind and we didn't do it together this year. I don't miss sleeping on the ground and freezing my ass off, but I miss what we had and what we could of continued if it weren't for some stupid miss understanding and him falling out of interest in me. I would likely not of arranged a holiday weekend with him again, but it would of been nice to of at least said hey, ya, this is kind of different than last year.

I realized tonight that I completely overwhelm my family. I tried to lead the conversation to other love interests, burlesque.... etc. but really I am overwhelming enough as it is. They really aren't interested or care. I forget this from time to time. I am glad I remember.

My ex-wife and I went to visit an old friend today that is likely going to commit suicide in the next year. She had attempted before and really, at 90, I think she has every right to end her life. She is ready, she was two years ago last time she attempted and now she is ready again. It was really hard for me for some reason as it gave me perspective into my own life about my own parents and their recent move. Their possible decline and my role in it. I don't want to stop them from doing what they want in life, but where do you draw the line. She trusted us to not say a word and we took that trust.... but if she ends her life, then what.

I realized that if my ex were not there I could not of visited our friend at all. Its hard to see her. What was hard was that my ex told me that she would not come back for the funeral. She lives far away now and I totally understand why she wouldn't. I would likely find it difficult to make it back myself. I will have to go to the funeral alone. I wept on the way home. I don't want to do this stuff alone.

I have set up some times for myself to come up here to the island to relax and possibly bring others. My brother comes up here often, I figured I should start making it a priority. I booked one day a month into September. I hope it doesn't conflict with burlesque too much. I will cross that bridge when I come to it.

My new friend has read this whole blog now. I wonder what he thinks. No doubt he will tell me in time. I miss him and Derby and my other new friend that I just started seeing. I am looking forward to home.

My dating friend.... I really need new names for them.....! I have a date with him this week. I took him to one of my favorite restaurants in town this last week for a lunch buffet. It sucked. It was not a good rendition of the food there, oh well. We have a date coming up again on Thursday. I don't know what we will do, but I look forward to some closeness and discussion on what on earth we are doing. I worry about my new friend as we have not had a date yet officially and there is something there also. We are waiting, or I am waiting still, on his getting through his break up. All this waiting and pacing. I love/hate it.

[redpepper]

Oh I am so loving this break from so much responsibility... I have a few things on the horizon, but mostly just relaxing, catching up with people and taking a breath. Planning on keeping this pace for awhile.

With the time I am beginning to do what I normally do and that is start getting sad about stuff I have no control over. Should of and could ofs and what ifs. Stupid, stupid, stupid. I don't know what else to do but walk through the feelings. I know that its partly due to sheer exhaustion and the fact that I have neglected my primary partner... my self.

I have been listening to some new music that I am singing along with and its making me happy. The songs are sad and melancholy though and I think I need to find something more up lifting. I was given the link to some new ones, well, forgotten ones this weekend and I am pouring over them now too. Having loves in my life always seems to bring me good music!

I have a week of dates this week. Time spent with people I love and who's existence in the world fills my heart with joy!

I have a date with Mono tonight. It's making me giddy to think of cuddling up to him tonight in bed only to end up sticky and sweaty later.... listening to him sing his silly little made up songs as we drive in his new truck to see a movie, listening to him talk about his websites and plans for retirement, arguing about something mundane just because...

I look forward to going shopping with my new friend to help him find some new clothes. Watching his shy confidence will be entertaining and endearing. Going shopping with someone is a big deal... I get to really look at him as he tries things on.. No trouble in that really. ;) I wonder if he is nervous? No doubt he will tell me after he reads this as he has been following along here diligently and comments in private often. I enjoy our time together and the more we spend time together the more we seem to bond.

I look forward to a walk on the ocean later this week and some homemade pizza with my dating friend. He is a romantic at heart and sends me lots of lovely words everyday that indicate his dedication to seeing what is in store for us. He has stopped looking on the dating sites he was on as I seem to be his focus at the moment. I enjoy our similarities and find that I trust him because of it. He thinks like me, is as passionate about everything as I am and his dedication and commitment to others and the process that he feels will create the best case scenario is similar to mine. I love that he puts a lot of thought into his relationships and does not do things half ass. Because I am like that too I find myself feeling very secure and easily relaxed.

Even later this week I am meeting with my darling husband to do a little book store window shopping before collecting our boy and having Indian food together. This date is tailored towards him and I was glad to make it so. He has a hard day to go through this up coming weekend as he visits his dad to sort out his dad's will. I wanted to make sure he had something other than that to look forward to. I want him to fall asleep in my arms happy on Friday night so that Saturday morning I can send him off feeling as if he has had some fun.

Next week I see Derby. Whew! Long time to wait, but I think we will be able to fit in a coffee date this week. She and I have a lot of catching up to do with our lives.... stories about the wedding she was in this past week, what is going on with various people we commonly know and have different relationships with, hugs and little kisses... I love wrapping my arms around her and breathing her in. Her sweet feminine smell and nature thrill me. They make me want to devour her... I love riding on that feeling after she leaves... all warm and cozy and personal to just us.

[redpepper]

I am missing Mono tonight. I think that he has been devoured by his computer and the numerous projects he involves himself in so as to some how see his way to finishing his job in December. Some presence would not go amiss right now. Thankfully I am getting a lot of attention elsewhere, but its not making up for the fact that I feel a bit neglected by him. Odd that he is the mono one of the bunch, yet I feel neglected by him! :rolleyes: you'd think it would be another.

I wonder sometimes if my loves feel neglected. They never say they do, but I wonder if they do. I see it in their eyes sometimes. I realize that I can only do so much, but I can't help thinking that "if only" I were able to be there more, if only I didn't have to work, if only I had more energy, if only I could be everything they want me to be. It causes me some guilt at times, but really, I can do nothing but trust that if what we have is not working that they will say so and go about finding what they need. The way I look at it is that I would rather spend really good quality time with them than lots of semi-good quality time with them. To me that is more than I could hope for if we have a good time, get a chat in and leave feeling like we both are nurtured in some way by each others love.

PN said tonight something about loving presence being enough sometimes. We had a date like that tonight. I think that can be true, but I don't know if it is enough... I am struggling to trust that right now.

[redpepper]

For someone so surrounded I feel so alone sometimes. My friend and I thought that this might be a middle age thing. It used to be easy to just talk to anyone and let it all out, but I find that harder and harder to do. There doesn't seem to be anyone that understands entirely, or is willing to be there entirely. I seem to have half relationships all over the place because people don't talk to me, don't express their inner selves. As a result I find it hard to let myself bond and continue attachments myself. Its a chicken and the egg thing.

Last week was glorious, this one, not so much. I'm bored out of my mind at work so I chat all day to various people and wait out whatever it is I am waiting out. I think its been the comfort and security of knowing that my relationships with Mono, PN and derby are okay before launching into exploring new ones. There seems to be this veil of something is not right in my world and I have been holding back, feeling alone and not moving in closer to anyone. It feels contrived when I try to do so.

Yesterday it was revealed that there is stuff going on. Interestingly its come about because of the cycle of which I spoke in the first paragraph. Lack of open honest communication has lead to distancing which has lead to feeling alone for people and me and then stuff happens and there is a breaking point. Now I feel alone and untrustworthy in the eyes of this person when they always said they trust me most of all.

I feel the same as I did when Leo broke up with me. Hollow, sick to my stomach, and utterly alone. I tried to reach out again, push for communication of any kind as to what was happening to keep bonds strong. There is nothing I can do when someone decides that they are not willing to be there with me.

[SNeacail]

For someone so surrounded I feel so alone sometimes. My friend and I thought that this might be a middle age thing. It used to be easy to just talk to anyone and let it all out, but I find that harder and harder to do. There doesn't seem to be anyone that understands entirely, or is willing to be there entirely. I seem to have half relationships all over the place because people don't talk to me, don't express their inner selves. As a result I find it hard to let myself bond and continue attachments myself. Its a chicken and the egg thing.

I totally get this! I don't think it's a middle age thing as it's something I've struggled with my whole life. It's just now at middle age :eek:, that I'm starting to change a few things. For a long time, I never thought I would have friends that I could bond with (20+ years). Accepting that certain friends are always going to be a bit on the outskirts, while others I will drop everything for made a big difference for me. There are a few that I will drop everything for out of obligation (because they have done the same for me), but acknowledging that to myself makes it easier and oddly enough, less of an "obligation" and more of gratitude. It is devastating to realize someone your thought you were bonding with doesn't feel the same.

Hugs!

[Magdlyn]

Reading in between the lines, RP, I am guessing Mono is withdrawing emotionally while giving you permission to date other men, just as he predicted he would years ago.

[redpepper]

Reading in between the lines, RP, I am guessing Mono is withdrawing emotionally while giving you permission to date other men, just as he predicted he would years ago.Worse, he feel in love with someone else when he needed support through Leo breaking up with me and turned to a friend. He didn't tell me until a few days ago when I dragged it out of him after months of disconnect, changes in his behaviour and lack of interest in being in my life.

He didn't tell her until after he told me, but she feels the same way. Its a bond that he can't deny. Even if he didn't cheat as badly as he did when he was with his wife (three year affair), it was emotional cheating that lead him to forget everything he knows about open honest communication, integrity and empathy... Everything I value and thought he did too. He choose to shut down rather than talk to me.

[nycindie]

Worse, he feel in love with someone else when he needed support through Leo breaking up with me and turned to a friend... He choose to shut down rather than talk to me.

It's not too late to keep communicating and see where this development will lead. He may have been distancing himself in order to deal with these feelings for her, but I highly doubt that all that suddenly erased the love he has for you - so maybe he can see how it is possible to love more than one person. Maybe it can still work out. He is still a part of your home and family, I am sure there are still things that need to be said and choices to be made.

[redpepper]

She is not available for a relationship and is not identifying as poly. She is in a failing marriage and he has been supporting her through that. Its a matter of forgetting the whole thing and just being friends or me and him ending and her and her husband ending so they can be together. Maybe if he had mentioned he has a friend he's really connecting with in mid February there would of been a chance to develop something? I don't know. Right now I am more concerned about what I will do and if I can accept. He understands what it means to love two people he says, which is why he can let go of me, but the way he came to it is not ideal and has hurt me deeply. All the things he assured me would be how it is for him have turned on their head and I have to decide what I think of that and how I should respond.

[SNeacail]

Hugs!

[redpepper]

Right now I need a good sleep. I haven't slept and neither has he. Talking and laying there quietly awake all night. Over come with emotion.

[Tonberry]

You've got my sympathies, and I hope you get through these tough times. Good luck with everything.

[SNeacail]

Right now I need a good sleep. I haven't slept and neither has he. Talking and laying there quietly awake all night. Over come with emotion.

Understandable. I don't know if it would help, but you might try sleeping someplace new, like the living room couch or such. When I can't make my brain shut down, it sometimes helps to just sleep on the couch with the tv on or something. I had to do this for 3 days (until we saw a counselor) when I found out my husband was cheating on me again. I would go into anxiety attacks to be in our bed. Letting the tv run in the back ground can sometimes distract your mind enough to let it relax and let you fall asleep, with out re-hashing the pain over and over again. Good Luck!

[redpepper]

Thank you for your thoughts and advice. :)

[Arrowbound]

*hugs*

I'm sorry y'all had to come to those realizations in that way. Sending positive thoughts for the processing and negotiating up ahead. There is still love there, which is awesome.

[redpepper]

Well, I'm in it. No sleep, putting my mind to that place of imagining them together and what transpired that they got to this place. Wondering what the hell he sees in her. Feeling the loss of something I was finally understanding and relying on to be my future (everything that comes with a monogamous partner).

The world is not ending, but changing. I went from understanding that my boyfriend was attached only to me and only wanted to be close to me to attempting to understand that he is now pinning for a woman that he has decided he should not see right now because I will be upset. When he talks about it there is sadness in his eyes that I can't help thinking is that he is not able to see her and swoon over her. He says that it isn't and that he is sad because he has hurt me and dragged her into something she didn't sign up for, but I struggle with believing anything he says now.

The precious feeling I had for three and a half years of unique specialness is gone I think. My man has turned his head and heart from me and has doubted what we have. He's gone to that place of believing he could have other opportunities elsewhere that don't involve me. Why is that so hard for me to swallow? I think there are just some people that come into life that are meant to hold a spot of crazy attachment that keeps us from feeling alone. Mono was it for me. Now I just feel hollow and alone. I hope eventually I will feel grounded in that at least so that I can feel okay about him seeing others he is attached to.

His thoughts on this might follow one day. He has a whole other take on this than me. A whole other side that I don't understand. I have lost a lot of sleep trying to understand and put my brain into how he sees things. I am so not like him in terms of love style and relationship satisfaction. He is fine with going out for coffee with her now and then, being a friend and removing himself from creating anything more in his mind about what they could have. I find it hard to understand that he won't go through something similar to me and Leo. I feel like he is making a compromise now as I did with Leo being in my life. He says that isn't the case, but its hard for me to understand.

The texting has stopped for a bit, but I suspect he was addicted to hearing from her. I suspect she is hurting over not hearing from him also. He texted her a lot. I didn't ask for them to stop, but did ask to know when she texted and what was going on. That put an end to texting at all and now I wonder just what it was they were texting that he doesn't feel comfortable sharing. Gaud the brain plays tricks! Its not my business, yet I obsess over those sort of things! It is likely nothing that big even!

I am trying to put myself in everyones shoes and feel what they might be feeling. Trying to go from there with accomplishing some sort of understanding and stability again. I talked with PN about it and he reminded me that I went through this same thing with his past girlfriends. I remember, I wasn't stellar at this then, so I aim to be better this time and take what I have learned. PN had some judgment over me being in this situation also. After all he has felt as I do now about new people coming into my life. We all go through this stuff. We are all human and we all go through the same feelings, just at different times in life.

Derby has been a great support. I feel like our relationship is based on her supporting me this last 6 months. It doesn't seem fair to me or balanced. I do hope that I get the chance to support her and that she feels supported by me sometimes. I have been staying away a bit so as to not overwhelm her with this. I think I was pretty overwhelming with my break up with Leo. Look where it got me.... a boyfriend that went elsewhere to find what he needed... (actually Mono doesn't see it like that and says it just happened, he was detached from me and it just happened... thing is that he detached because of me going through a break up :confused:).

I am seeing my new friend in an hour. He will be a breath of fresh air I think. I soooo need that. We are going to talk about guinea pig hutches, drink coffee and catch up. A diversion that is well needed and appreciated.

I met my other new friends wife last night. He invited me out to coffee after their date night ended. We had a long deep chat about kids, relationships, philosophies of life and values. It seems we got on well! I was completely not present through the whole thing due to my home life, so I am glad that I came across okay. Next time I hope to be a little more present and feel the moment.

[redpepper]

It was a weekend of processing, processing, processing... four days to catch up on three months. We are learning lots, but Mono and I and are going to be okay. Things are not changed as much as I first thought, although my trust has been thrown to the wall.

Now I am working on her appearing in his life in different ways that I didn't realize before. The texting has died down but that is my hurdle right now. In this moment, ;) There is one every moment though.

Oh ya, and I am dealing with people telling me I'm hypocritical and that I have lots of loves, so I should just suck it up. Thing is though that I was promised his monogamy to me from day one and he cheated on me for three months. Soft cheated, but cheated none-the-less. He kept it from me, thought he could deal with it himself, thought he would get over her or it would just be hidden and I wouldn't notice. Thing is I did and asked about it over and over... and he said nothing.

[Arrowbound]

You should just suck it up and not address how it came about?

Oh please. That's ridiculous and not beneficial to anyone, not even Mono.

[redpepper]

Thanks Arrowbound, its people who are not poly that think that way. They don't understand. The woman in question is confused by my reaction also. She doesn't relate to what I am feeling I don't think and carries on as if Mono is just one of many to me. I know she just doesn't understand but to me it makes me feel like people think he is dispensible to me. He is far from it. I intend to fight for what we have and make this a learning curve.

In the mono world it would be a matter or telling him to cut her out entirely or him leaving me for her. I am not suggesting either, but working through it so they can be together in whatever way they want. I can see, that in me doing that, it would be expected some how, but for different reasons. I have other partners after all so I should stop whining and let him do what he wants. Off course its completely not like that, but how does someone explain that to people. I hope this made sense, lol.

[Tonberry]

Well, as I understand, you had an agreement and he didn't hold to it, and if he had told you about it when it first happened you would have walked through it together. So the problem isn't the concept of him being with someone else but the idea that he went behind your back, and the breach of trust. Maybe if you explain it that way more people would understand.

[dingedheart]

Sorry to learn you 2 hit a rough patch.

Could this be the result of these hard ideological positions. Mono vs Poly. He's stated numerous times in very clever way his adamant belief in his own monogamy and what that meant. And you think, breath, sleep ...(especially sleep :D) poly...and identify as part of your being.


What is soft cheating ?

He is one of many ....3-5 if I do the math right. All equal in love but those are the numbers ...right. Are you concerned you will get less love from him ? ...less time? or both ?

Your second paragraph... are you trying to project outcomes from each ideological position? You could see yourself doing that but for different reasons . What reasons?

[redpepper]

So the problem isn't the concept of him being with someone else but the idea that he went behind your back, and the breach of trust. Maybe if you explain it that way more people would understand.
Exactly, and yes, I have asked him to tell anyone who asks that this is my issue. Would I prefer she wasn't around at all? Well hell ya! I loved my mono bf being all mine. Stupid huh? I feel like an idiot for falling for that bullshit. A victim of our cultural programming. Embarrassing. I feel stupid and embarrassed.

[SNeacail]

He kept it from me, thought he could deal with it himself, thought he would get over her or it would just be hidden and I wouldn't notice.

My husband does this a lot and is part of what was destroying our marriage. They actually believe (deep down) that they can and should deal with it by themselves and then it will all be back to normal and they won't have to burden us with their struggles. **Bang head against wall**, that's exactly what we are there for, so they don't have to struggle alone.

Thing is I did and asked about it over and over... and he said nothing.

Yeah, I get this too :confused:.

You should just suck it up and not address how it came about?

Oh please. That's ridiculous and not beneficial to anyone, not even Mono.

THIS!

Well, as I understand, you had an agreement and he didn't hold to it, and if he had told you about it when it first happened you would have walked through it together. So the problem isn't the concept of him being with someone else but the idea that he went behind your back, and the breach of trust.

COMPLETELY AGREE!

Even when I was in a completely mono mindset, I never cared if my husband had 5+ lady friends he liked to talk to and go to lunch with, he's always had lots of lady friends. However, it was a problem, when he would lie about it.

ME: "Who did you go to lunch with?"
Him: "Joe"

Then a few days later I would find out that it was Joe and Susan. I would end up in tears, because, if he was hiding and lying about simple mundane things, what else was he lying about, what else was going on with Susan, etc. Still trying to get that concept through my husbands thick head. He has spent so many years of doing it, that it has become automatic and breaking bad habits is a pain in the ass.

Hugs and Good Luck!

[redpepper]

Sorry to learn you 2 hit a rough patch.

Could this be the result of these hard ideological positions. Mono vs Poly. He's stated numerous times in very clever way his adamant believe in his own monogamy and what that meant. And you think, breath, sleep ...(especially sleep :D) poly...and identify as part of your being.


What is soft cheating ?

He is one of many ....3-5 if I do the math right. All equal in love but those are the numbers ...right. Are you concerned you will get less love from him ? ...less time? or both ?

Your second paragraph... are you trying to project outcomes from each ideological position? You could see yourself doing that but for different reasons . What reasons?

Hopefully my response to Tonberry helps answer your questions Dinged. Seems I'm not so poly minded after all. I should never of thought I could trust that he would not ever fall for someone else. He is not the type to get attach to others in thew way I do and I trusted that.

I have been around him for three plus years now and see how much of a loner he is, how independent. What we have was working, he got his independence and love as well. I got my family, busy life with friends, socializing, many loves and him, my rock solid love that was devoted to me. I relied on that for my grounding and anchor to home, comfort and letting myself go entirely after being out in the world. It felt like monogamy to me. PN is that to me as well but in a different way. In a poly way.

This is about us, not about our ideologies in poly and mono. He has caused me to doubt all I know about what we had. It was deception and a breaking of trust. Its cheating, softer in that they never expressed their feelings until I knew and they never got closer than loving looks with each other over a coffee table. As far as I know. I don't know what to think any more.

Hope that makes sense.

[Phy]

Seems I'm not so poly minded after all. I should never of thought I could trust that he would not ever fall for someone else. He is not the type to get attach to others in thew way I do and I trusted that.

I have been around him for three plus years now and see how much of a loner he is, how independent. [...] and him, my rock solid love that was devoted to me. I relied on that for my grounding and anchor to home, comfort and letting myself go entirely after being out in the world. It felt like monogamy to me. PN is that to me as well but in a different way. In a poly way.

[...] He has caused me to doubt all I know about what we had. It was deception and a breaking of trust. Its cheating[...]

Hope that makes sense.

It does make perfect sense to me. I don't know how to describe it, but I thought about Lin the whole time I was reading what happened. I would feel exactly the same if this would ever happen to us. Maybe the shock would be so great because I never expect him to behave like that. It isn't what my concept of him looks like. I would be surprised if it happened to Sward (aside from the cheating matter) but I kind of suspect him to be/become like that. In the case of Lin, I would always regard him falling in love again or developing an outside interest, as a threat, because he is supposed to leave me as soon as something like this comes around. Because I always think of him as 'strictly mono'.

And of course is this something that hurts. Totally unrelated to how many people/lovers are in your life. And of course this is a breach of trust. How couldn't it be? I am sorry for the lack of communication and ability to minimize this damage. And I hope that you will be able to find a way of communication that makes the words you speak to each other sound reliable and true again.

Maybe it was some kind of double standard to emphasize and regard his love as something special and more solid than the other ones. But I can certainly understand that feeling, as right now, I have two of those who love 'me, and only me alone'. I felt the pressure and the promise of this kind relationship. And I started to distance myself from the cliché of the 'monogamous love' I had in mind for some time. One is temped to regard the love of a person loving one alone as something different (obviously) and more special (assumption). But the moment I turned to my own feelings, I knew that this was just not true. How could I degrade them like that?

As far as I see it, if it is 'only' about him falling in love multiple times, you will be ok. You have to alter your picture of his mono-self a bit and find a way to deal with his inability to handle it better. If this is about him swaying between two women because he feels too disconnected to stay with one permanently ... you will have some rough times in repairing your relationship and trying to 'save' it. I hope things work out, sorry that you are in this place right now.

[Tonberry]

I understand the feeling that you lost something, too. I have experienced the "I said I was mono and wouldn't want anyone else but I've met someone" and I felt like I lost something, even though I'm not mono myself, I guess it struck my ego that even with permission he wouldn't get with someone else.
However, nothing happened behind my back so it was easier to get over. The fact that some things happened without your knowledge is something you need to process, and so any other disappointment becomes worse for it, I would assume.

[dingedheart]

I guess what meant with the idea of a clash in hard ideologies is no one wants to be a hypocrite and neither of you would want to admit those shifts ....although you just did:D And with each of these hard positions assumptions and possible projections got made.

Actually your response to Tonberry reflects that poly hardline :D falling for the bullshit ...victim to cultural programming.

I understand the trust issue but how much different is this from bending/breaking a boundary you had set with PN or mono in regards to Leo or someone else. With all the lectures, events, forum talk , etc, etc could you frame it as you finally got through....He might finally get it :D on with life. Couldn't this be a moment to celebrate once the sting is gone.


Have you 2 thought about counseling ? Its recommended here all the time but because of your position here people might not think of that.... and you might not have thought of it.

[redpepper]

Thanks for all the support. All of you. It really helps.

Dinged, you crack me up! :p I guess my addressing the "victim of cultural programming" is a poly thing really.

It could be a moment to celebrate Dinged, you are right. We have made some progress and come further than ever so far... its still raw, and I still don't know where the cards will fall, but one thing for sure is that we are not done with this relationship commitment we made. We are going to figure it out.

Counseling might be an idea if we weren't getting anywhere, but we are doing awesome at that. So much so that Mono wishes I would slow down.... :D heh. I love this shit... relationships dynamics and communication are my passion... I'm such a geek. Poor guy, he might just of tried to hide it so he wouldn't get my tidal wave of process process processssss. Ha! Too late, it is his punishment now. lol :rolleyes:

[LovingRadiance]

... it was emotional cheating that lead him to forget everything he knows about open honest communication, integrity and empathy... Everything I value and thought he did too. He choose to shut down rather than talk to me.

Ouch. I wish I had read this before I flew home, I would have paid the fee to come back over on the ferry to give all of you a hug. I know it wouldn't fix anything, but I just wish I could have given you a REAL hug and knowing I was SO CLOSE! Sigh. :(

[LovingRadiance]

Maybe if he had mentioned he has a friend he's really connecting with in mid February there would of been a chance to develop something? I don't know. Right now I am more concerned about what I will do and if I can accept.
My friend....

May I have the privilege of giving you a quiet, loving word of warning?

Many times over the last few years, when I've wondered and when Maca has wondered if there was anyway we could deal with the "newest" nightmare in our poly experience,

We've turned to words of wisdom-written by you and Mono.
The most distinctly clear message we've received, over and over, is not to make decisions in the heat of the moment, because emotions come and they go.

You're hurting-and that is totally ok!
But, you love him.
Every person makes mistakes, and I'm not saying it's not a big mistake to shut down and back away.
But, from the perspective of someone whose been on the sidelines making huge mistakes as frequently as most people change their panties,
this seems to me to be a mistake that was almost destined. Mono has expressed often his lack of experience and understanding of poly. So, it's not surprising that he would fail to make the "poly-expected" move when he suddenly found himself experiencing what he didn't believe he could.

THAT DOESN'T IN ANYWAY mean you don't have a right to be hurt. PLEASE don't misread my words.
But, maybe it does mean looking back at history and seeing, did you make serious errors of similarity when you were starting out? I know I have. I know Maca has. I think many of us has.

Only you two can decide the future for yourselves. BUT, don't make decisions in the midst of your heartbreak flooding over you sweetie. YOU deserve the time to work through your heartbreak before deciding what the consequences will be of the circumstances.

Right now I need a good sleep. I haven't slept and neither has he. Talking and laying there quietly awake all night. Over come with emotion.
Sleep is critical-and when your emotions are so high, it's hard to come by. I wonder if it's not time for a jog by the ocean? I haven't heard you mention doing that in awhile (obviously, you could have, I only keep up via fb, just thought, it might help).

[LovingRadiance]

Things are not changed as much as I first thought, although my trust has been thrown to the wall.


Oh ya, and I am dealing with people telling me I'm hypocritical and that I have lots of loves, so I should just suck it up.

First, congrats on holding it together for a couple of days, to the point of realizing that things aren't as bad as it felt at first.

Second, congrats on realizing that it is still broken trust and that will need to be addressed.

Third, fuck other people RP. I'm serious. I could be wrong-God knows I am often enough, but I can't find it in myself to believe that Mono would say that you are being hypocritical.
You're hurt.
You're working together to deal with the cause of that hurt.

It's not hypocritical to expect from someone what they say they are giving you-even if what they offer you is different from what you offer them!

A parent gives a child something COMPLETELY different than what a child gives a parent.

Likewise, what I give GG is TOTALLY different than what he offers me and what I give Maca is different than what he gives me and what I give each of them is different from what I offer the other one!

We're INDIVIDUALS.
You and Mono are different people offering each other what you as INDIVIDUALS can offer and something changed for him-without you being told. That hurts.
It's not hypocrisy to be hurt by it.

To me, based on what I've gleaned thus far, he failed to trust you and in doing so, has given you cause to fear trusting him.
THAT makes PERFECT sense to me.

I depend on the trust in my relationships and using GG (since he's mono) as an example, if he suddenly quit confiding in me-regardless of whether or not there existed a new love in his life-it would be a HUGE problem because my trust would falter. It would falter, because that would be such a significant change from who I understand him to be and who I understand US to be.

So, tell people to screw off if they can't comprehend it. They aren't part of your relationship.

As for you, Mono, PN and boy, hugs hugs hugs hugs.

[LovingRadiance]

Exactly, and yes, I have asked him to tell anyone who asks that this is my issue. Would I prefer she wasn't around at all? Well hell ya! I loved my mono bf being all mine. Stupid huh? I feel like an idiot for falling for that bullshit. A victim of our cultural programming. Embarrassing. I feel stupid and embarrassed.

No, not stupid, human.
Welcome to humanity sweetie.

And, I agree with dinged,
in the big picture, not the today picture, but the big picture,
I think this learning curve very well may be cause to celebrate.

Not that anyone is changing necessarily-but that you have faced a hurdle, a big hurdle and found the weaknesses in your form so you can improve. :)

[nycindie]

Poor guy, he might just of tried to hide it so he wouldn't get my tidal wave of process process processssss. Ha! Too late, it is his punishment now. lol :rolleyes:
Now I'm picturing you in a leather bustier and high boots, brandishing your flogger and hissing, "Process!!!"

[Arrowbound]

Thanks Arrowbound, its people who are not poly that think that way. They don't understand. The woman in question is confused by my reaction also. She doesn't relate to what I am feeling I don't think and carries on as if Mono is just one of many to me. I know she just doesn't understand but to me it makes me feel like people think he is dispensible to me. He is far from it. I intend to fight for what we have and make this a learning curve.

In the mono world it would be a matter or telling him to cut her out entirely or him leaving me for her. I am not suggesting either, but working through it so they can be together in whatever way they want. I can see, that in me doing that, it would be expected some how, but for different reasons. I have other partners after all so I should stop whining and let him do what he wants. Off course its completely not like that, but how does someone explain that to people. I hope this made sense, lol.

Makes perfect sense. People tell other people to suck it up in monogamous marriages and relationships all the time! Never mind that this is something you BOTH need to work through. Y'all live together and are a family for god sakes.



Well, as I understand, you had an agreement and he didn't hold to it, and if he had told you about it when it first happened you would have walked through it together. So the problem isn't the concept of him being with someone else but the idea that he went behind your back, and the breach of trust. Maybe if you explain it that way more people would understand.


Agreed.



I guess what meant with the idea of a clash in hard ideologies is no one wants to be a hypocrite and neither of you would want to admit those shifts ....although you just did:D And with each of these hard positions assumptions and possible projections got made.

Actually your response to Tonberry reflects that poly hardline :D falling for the bullshit ...victim to cultural programming.

I understand the trust issue but how much different is this from bending/breaking a boundary you had set with PN or mono in regards to Leo or someone else. With all the lectures, events, forum talk , etc, etc could you frame it as you finally got through....He might finally get it :D on with life. Couldn't this be a moment to celebrate once the sting is gone.


Have you 2 thought about counseling ? Its recommended here all the time but because of your position here people might not think of that.... and you might not have thought of it.

You know, that never occurred to me. Or maybe it did but I never referred to it as cultural programming polywise, lol.

I too see this as being a potentially awesome shift if everything goes well. I don't think I ever saw myself as mono even before I met my SO but I've still come a long way in terms of understanding myself and how I love others, and a sense of belonging as well. It'd be nice to know that Mono has joined the fray in that sense.

[Outsider]

I just wanted to say good luck, and thank you.

It's interesting what people get from wanting to learn about themselves. As well because of on line communities such as this there are entire new ways to share information and support.

I've read your blog from start to finish, it's weird because I almost feel like I know you, and most of the extended family you mention. It's strange to be pulling for folks I've never met, but there it is.

A few posts back you lamented about if you overwhelmed the people around you, in another post you wondered if your loves felt neglected occasionally ... Not long before that the posts were "everything was right with your world" uber happy etc.

Look I'm not just a relative poly novice, I'm a complete novice ... Relatively I'm subterranean novice ! --- but on the surface it is often said that people exploring this lifestyle often have to move at the pace of the slowest person.

As I read about the latest developments and your raw feelings of late .... I couldn't help but wonder how much a role process, time and your aforementioned potentially overwhelming personality might have played into this. Sometimes our strengths are also our weaknesses.

You've described mono as a loving caring man who is intensely private in some ways.

You had just come through some emotional turmoil, some of which rightly or wrongly he likely felt some guilt about because he felt he might have been holding you back ...... In short order you'd met and developed an interest in a couple of other individuals ( who sound great btw) .... You certainly seemed very happy about this, that's a no-brainer I mean how were you supposed to feel ? ..... But my point is that during this time He was doing some soul searching as well. Researching, thinking, peeling his own onions so to speak and during that time became closer to a friend and some feelings surfaced.

I think I totally get where you are comming from in terms of withholding information, but I guess I'm unclear exactly when it would have been a good time to bring you into the loop? You were healing and branching out and seemingly quite happy with his new found ability to move or remove a boundary / negotiated line in the sand that had been up untill now a unique compromise that was one of the structural foundations of your relationship.

I might be simplifying it entirely too much but, your posts seemed to indicate (to me) that you weren't quite sure what was going on with mono but he seemed full of compersion ..... And that was good enough for you to change up some relationship dynamics ( again with full disclosure, totally above board etc) rather quickly. This all seemed to make you very happy. If we saw this I'm confident he did as well...... But what I'm saying is that not knowing exactly why this was occurring did not stop you from taking advantage of the opportunities this new found boundary lifting / erasing created , during a time when you were also hurting.

It seems to me that an equally probable scenario that could have unfolded is that mono could have come back and said "I thought I could do things differently, I didn't want you to be hurt again etc ..... But i'm sorry I can't. That would be a pickle too wouldn't it? For at least 4 people directly if my count is correct.

I mean you have repeated so many times on this board how this compromise worked, and certainly not with a self pity theme ---- but any way you cut it you needed to forego additional relationships, for you two to be together. It's interesting though because I think one of the things you got out of this was to have mono's undevided romantic attention ..... You referenced this thought verbatim --- a few posts back but I don't recall that revelation occurring before (though there are thousands of posts so I could have missed it) ..... I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing, just that it's interesting if this is the first you've really thought about that.

All I know is that my understanding was that adding additional people coupled with either yourself or mono was historically seen as a potential detrimental to your dynamic as you know it. Maybe your emotional relationship with Leo placed him outside his comfort zone ... And while not always pleasant, caused some growth.... Leading to him to some thought changes.
Regardless you seemed to change the gears rather quickly and embraced the situation with your usual energy, your already busy schedule got busier. To the subject at hand Perhaps he did choose not to discuss it with you, but you guys are discussing it now, not much has happened as I understand it .... But I can understand the bad feelings you have that perhaps border on betrayal ......
I also understand mono's initial thoughts on the subject better.

I hope everything all works out, and for what it is worth I sincerely wish you luck.

[redpepper]

Thank you all for the responses, support and thoughts.

Nycindie- :D you made me smile. Thank you. I do feel a bit like that in moments, and then crumble ;)

LR- you are a dear. Thanks for letting me text your face off and thanks for all your knowledge, I will heed what you say and just feel the emotions before making decisions. You are so wise.

Arrowbound- thanks for your input and wisdom also.

Outsider- it was me who said it first "go at the pace of the one who is struggling the most." I am glad of the reminder and am thinking now of just who it is who is struggling most in all this. ??? You hit the nail on the head several times about what Mono and I have talked about and what he has said about his experience in this. There are other factors that I can't share, but the general idea you have understood. I guess the more I write about our process the more it will become evident how much.

[redpepper]

Last night I tried to respect Mono's wishes to have less talking and more just being together. That worked for some time and eventually he opened up a bit. Its hard to know where to start with all the things that have been said. What I got most of all is that this woman was uncomplicated and spending time with her was essentially a break from me and what was going on for me. He wants to keep that in his life and apparently not take it further than that. I've heard that many many times before, but the trust isn't there. It will come I think.

He told me some of what they talk about in more depth, which I appreciated as I have been asking for him to tell me what is going on, but it was hard to hear. Hard to hear that they share anything at all really. Especially since I thought it was just me he shares with.

He thinks that she is really interested in poly and if there was a chance she would want him as a bf. Also hard to hear. Somehow it became more evident last night that is also about what she wants and what this has opened up for her. Sure, I knew that was a factor, but it hit home more than ever last night.

I lay awake for hours after that, PN rolling around beside me asking if I was okay and me saying I could go and sleep on the couch. Sigh, I feel like this all comes out on him as I am so distant. Its not his fault, yet it must feel terrible when I say I am going to sleep on the couch.

I lay awake and decided to just let it go. Just let my head go there, to that place of, this isn't going away, Mono has a need for this woman(or any other woman) to be his gf. I wondered what that would look like and what that would change for me in terms of boundaries. So, I made a mental list. I won't go into detail, but it started with my needing him to use condoms. Fluid bonding is a huge deal to us and always has been. That in itself was a shot of pain... There are about 7-10 requests I would have that aren't meant to be ultimatums, but boy they sure seem like they are instead of boundaries. I told him about them today and expressed that they were fluid and changeable with time for me, but this is what I would ask for if he came to me with a decision that this woman was now going to be my metamour.

My concern now is to not allow myself to already think that its a done deal. I am holding on in my heart to not assume the worst case scenarios for me in this. I am hoping that in making this list I can come back from it into something that is what they want and I am comfortable with because I pushed my mind to the edge on some of these issues.

Mono is asking me to get back to seeing the men I was entertaining. He wants me to be happy again; like I was a week ago. Happy and light and joyous. He was loving seeing me like that and wants me to be that again. I have put all of it on hold in my head. My priority is him and this situation. It might mean that I am a downer to him, but I have nothing in me to give anyone priority over him right now. I still talk to other people in my life. I met Derby for lunch today, but my presence is elsewhere. I enjoy being totally present with people when I'm with them. I hope that just being their physically for a bit will be enough right now.

[CielDuMatin]

rp, very sorry to hear that things are a little rocky right now with you and mono - I so enjoyed meeting you two all those years - you are a great couple.

If I may offer a different perspective in your quest of screaming "WHHHHYYYYYY?" to the ether.... (and by the way, if I were in your situation, I would more than likely be doing the same).

Mono has always stated that he is monogamous. He has been very very open about it. Monogamy means that when you fall in love with one person you automatically must fall out of love with the other (right? cos that's how monogamy works). You knew this, and have visualised your relationship with him on that basis.

So I think that it is only natural that, when he finds someone else he cares about, you see this as a threat to your relationship with him. Has to be... he's monogamous, right? Regardless of what YOU feel or how poly YOU are, you know that HE isn't. You are interpreting his actions based on that monogamous mind-set.

Mono is an intelligent and very self-aware guy - you and he have shared so much with each other, and I'm sure he can understand why what you see as going on is upsetting to you, no?

Often the gut feelings of folks being distant are your subconscious trying to tell you something - in this case, that he was hiding something. Trust your gut on stuff like this, for sure.

I hope that the two of you can continue to work in the stellar way that you normally do.

Virtual hugs from across the continent.

[newtoday]

Redpepper. I feel for what both you and Mono are going through.

To give you an alternate perspective and Mono some support as a fellow secondary.....

I identify as mono. I love only my bf. He is my world. He is poly, loving me and his live-in SO.

He has told me quite often that he would understand if I changed my mind and decided to pursue others to find my own primary. Recognizing that, if that happened, as I am mono, things would most probably end with him. Hearing him encourage me like that hurt me, as to me, it meant that he was OK with my leaving. He confessed that he would actually be devastated if I let another man into my heart and into my bed. Yet he would feel like a hypocrite for not accepting it if I chose that path. He's shamed that he doesn't want me to have another while he has his SO at home. It's not that he doesn't believe in poly, he just knows that it's not a choice that I would make for myself. So he fears losing me. And his fears are reasonable.

I accept that about him and love him more for sharing his true feelings. And although I briefly thought about finding another at one time, I remain committed to him. I love him with all of my heart.

When I read the prior threads about you adding more and more loves into your life, I couldn't help but wonder how Mono really felt about that. As a Secondary, our biggest wish is to have more time with the object of our affection. To have that parcelled out even more between additional loves, could be a huge challenge. I recently attended a work/life balance seminar and one thought sticks in my head "For every thing you say YES to, you are saying NO to another. Choose what you say YES to, make sure your priorities are in line."

In poly, love may be infinite but time and ability to provide attention are not. We must stay keenly aware of that.

Maybe for Mono, every time you said YES to another love, he was hearing NO to him. And for fear of losing you and you reacting as you actually did, he was scared to tell you his thoughts. Or he thought, who the heck really cares. At times, I have been guilty of such thoughts. Why would my bf care if I found another? He has his SO at home. But when I told him that, it hurt him alot. He would care. He would be devestated. Another love doesn't replace one who has taken such a huge piece of your heart. If anything, it makes things worse for all involved.

In reality, insecurities and doubt are only kept at bay when all partners feel their needs are being met. When they are not, you are bound for trouble. As I'm sure you already know.

I wish you both all the best. I know that this will only make you and your relationship stronger in the end.

[nycindie]

RP, I'm sorry you are hurting and losing sleep, but I have to say that I think you are jumping the gun a bit in imagining this woman as your metamour. Hasn't Mono always insisted that he can't be anything other than monogamous? He has always said that if he were to be interested in someone else, it means that he's losing his connection to you. And he has also always said that if you expressed interest in taking on another lover, he would start losing his connection to you. Even though he was happy to see you happy with your latest dates (because he loves you!) and you were marveling at his compersion, it would seem that he knows himself pretty well and it is indeed your connection that needs to heal.

If I were you, instead of trying to figure out how to incorporate this woman into your life, work on rebuilding your connection with Mono. Be there for him in the way he needs you to be. Respecting his request for less talk and more time together is one way to do that. Obviously, he has felt that there was something inhibiting his connection to you and it started to fall away enough to start developing this intimacy and love for his female friend. I suspect it has something to do with giving him consideration and attention. Even though he is a loner, perhaps underneath watching you go through your break-up with Leo and your excitement over your new friends, he may have been thinking, "Well, what about me?" I don't know, only guessing here. Whether it will be possible to have more relationships down the road is something you and he will have to negotiate, and it is totally possible that the dynamic between you and Mono will be completely different than it was and be satisfying. But I think your focus should be on reconnecting, rather than on her and what she's all about.

((((((HUGS)))))

[LovingRadiance]

LR- you are a dear. Thanks for letting me text your face off and thanks for all your knowledge, I will heed what you say and just feel the emotions before making decisions.

am thinking now of just who it is who is struggling most in all this. ???

Sweetie-you are ALWAYS welcome to text or email my head off. :) As much time and support as you have put in on my behalf, it's a pleasure and privilege to be able to return a small amount to you!

In regards to that last sentence, in my humble opinion, it's ALWAYS the kids who struggling most in all of this. I know your little guy loves all three of you OH SO MUCH and I am sure, even without being privvy to all that is going on, due to just how amazingly bright and observant he is, that he's sensing the tension and high emotions right now.

So, I would advise taking a little time for each of you (mom, dad, Mono) to make a "date" one on one with him and the 4 of you as a family, in the next week or two. Nothing serious to discuss, just BE together so he can also sense that regardless of what's going on in the grown up world of emotions, his little world is still secure. :)

I say this with all due respect, it wouldn't occur to me that you all WOULDN'T consider him. I just keep thinking of him. :) In fact, I've been thinking of him ever since dinner! He's so amazing! I hope we have more dinners so I can hear more of his theories on life! What a kid! He OBVIOUSLY has an AMAZING family, cause he's just an amazing kid!

[LovingRadiance]

Sigh, I feel like this all comes out on him as I am so distant. Its not his fault, yet it must feel terrible when I say I am going to sleep on the couch.


Time to take a "just about you and me" hour. :)

Don't forget to take those "just about me" hours too. :)
Walk, jog, run, cry, yell, text, paint. ;)

Hugs!

[redpepper]

Thanks Ceil for the message first off. :)
He has told me quite often that he would understand if I changed my mind and decided to pursue others to find my own primary. Recognizing that, if that happened, as I am mono, things would most probably end with him. Hearing him encourage me like that hurt me, as to me, it meant that he was OK with my leaving. He confessed that he would actually be devastated if I let another man into my heart and into my bed. Yet he would feel like a hypocrite for not accepting it if I chose that path. He's shamed that he doesn't want me to have another while he has his SO at home. It's not that he doesn't believe in poly, he just knows that it's not a choice that I would make for myself. So he fears losing me. And his fears are reasonable.

I accept that about him and love him more for sharing his true feelings. And although I briefly thought about finding another at one time, I remain committed to him. I love him with all of my heart.I would be devistated too and I feel hypocritical, however, I would live on and get over it. Things for me would likely change, but I will never stop loving Mono. He will always be in my life, just like my ex-wife is and others I love dearly still. I am not ready for that yet though and I don't feel as if our time as partners is over. Maybe if he were to have another love it wouldn't be over for us... There would be a change though.

When I read the prior threads about you adding more and more loves into your life, I couldn't help but wonder how Mono really felt about that. As a Secondary, our biggest wish is to have more time with the object of our affection. To have that parceled out even more between additional loves, could be a huge challenge. I recently attended a work/life balance seminar and one thought sticks in my head "For every thing you say YES to, you are saying NO to another. Choose what you say YES to, make sure your priorities are in line."

In poly, love may be infinite but time and ability to provide attention are not. We must stay keenly aware of that.

Maybe for Mono, every time you said YES to another love, he was hearing NO to him. And for fear of losing you and you reacting as you actually did, he was scared to tell you his thoughts. Or he thought, who the heck really cares. At times, I have been guilty of such thoughts. Why would my bf care if I found another? He has his SO at home. But when I told him that, it hurt him alot. He would care. He would be devestated. Another love doesn't replace one who has taken such a huge piece of your heart. If anything, it makes things worse for all involved.

In reality, insecurities and doubt are only kept at bay when all partners feel their needs are being met. When they are not, you are bound for trouble. As I'm sure you already know.

I wish you both all the best. I know that this will only make you and your relationship stronger in the end.I asked Mono, after hearing from you, if he felt as if his time with me was not enough, if he felt that his needs weren't being met, if he would like to change something in order to make his life better with me in some way. He said that he in no way feels that he doesn't get enough time with me. We live together, all of us, under one roof for one thing. We see each other often. For another he is a loner and very independent, he has always prefer I ask if he would like to do something rather than assume he would come and do it like the rest of the house hold operates. He cuts the lawn on his own time, takes his garbage out on his own time, comes up and eats dinner with us on his own time and goes and does his own thing on his own time. If he wanted more time he could have it and I would give it too him. Its ofter me that asks him if I can see him these days. Well, until last week when this all came up anyway. :o

I think that really it was a matter of spending time with this woman as a friend and them finding that there was a mutual attraction and fondness beyond the friendship they began with. It just happened. Just like my meeting the man I am seeing. I never expected to find anyone that interesting and now I am finding that not only am I spending time with the friend I had and seeing if there is something more there, but spending time with the man I met to see if there is something worth working on there also. It just happened. As did Mono and the woman... so he says.

[redpepper]

RP, I'm sorry you are hurting and losing sleep, but I have to say that I think you are jumping the gun a bit in imagining this woman as your metamour. Hasn't Mono always insisted that he can't be anything other than monogamous? He has always said that if he were to be interested in someone else, it means that he's losing his connection to you. And he has also always said that if you expressed interest in taking on another lover, he would start losing his connection to you. Even though he was happy to see you happy with your latest dates (because he loves you!) and you were marveling at his compersion, it would seem that he knows himself pretty well and it is indeed your connection that needs to heal. It is our connection that needs healing. It is healing as a result of our working on this. I was jumping the gun on this woman being a metamour. I was hoping that if I put my head in the space of her being in his life that I could slowly scale back to feeling okay about his even going out for coffee with her! It seems to of worked a bit. I am definitely less anxious and hurt by the texting as a result... we shall see what time does.

He has always insisted that he will and is monogamous. He got very confused when he found himself bonding with another woman and still being in love with me. I can see how this would keep him from saying something too. I was hoping that, like when he needed to work through his family issues after his divorce, that he would come to me for that sort of thing also. I was hurt when he didn't.

He is insisting I see these other men now. I have told him I am not interested in seeing anyone and want to scale back to just us again, but he wants me to see it through and decide for my self. I have lost interest in anything that is going to any way rock the boat or add more stress and activity in my life at the moment, but as Mono seems to of really liked to see me so happy I am seeing if there is a chance that I could be happy again with all that was and is going on around me. I am not sure if its a good idea. I find it hard to trust that his pushing me out the door is for the reasons he says.

If I were you, instead of trying to figure out how to incorporate this woman into your life, work on rebuilding your connection with Mono. Be there for him in the way he needs you to be. Respecting his request for less talk and more time together is one way to do that. Obviously, he has felt that there was something inhibiting his connection to you and it started to fall away enough to start developing this intimacy and love for his female friend. I suspect it has something to do with giving him consideration and attention. Even though he is a loner, perhaps underneath watching you go through your break-up with Leo and your excitement over your new friends, he may have been thinking, "Well, what about me?" I don't know, only guessing here. Whether it will be possible to have more relationships down the road is something you and he will have to negotiate, and it is totally possible that the dynamic between you and Mono will be completely different than it was and be satisfying. But I think your focus should be on reconnecting, rather than on her and what she's all about.
yes I agree. It should be about us re-connecting than about her... onward to doing that.

There are other factors that are inhibiting his connection... all of which I don't know if I am at liberty to mention so I best not. There is a lot of life change going on for him and I think part of it is that he has been in the habit of changing everything when he gets to points in his life like he is now. I think that perhaps this is part of that way he operates. He is trying hard to not just throw up his hands and leave. This was his past way of dealing with things. Things get tough, end everything and start again. I admire how hard he is working on this, I really do. :)

[redpepper]

Tonight Mono talked to PN about what has been going on for him. I noted that in hearing the story from both of them that the underlying theme at the moment is that everything has changed. I don't know if it has. I guess time will tell.

I know that one thing for sure is that I feel better that Mono talked to PN and I comforted PN and spent time with him in what he calls "loving presence." This has taken its toll on all of us and I intend to work harder to "normalise" things so that my family can enjoy more happy times; like Mono and PN did tonight in the back yard playing hacky sack for an hour while I putzed around in the garden and LB did his own thing.

I wonder if this time next week I will be trusting more... I hope so. I don't know how people just decide these things. I have been trying to find that place in my head so that I can feel it, think on it and then practice it like crazy. I haven't found my "letting it all go" button. I hope its not broken.

[nycindie]

He has always insisted that he will and is monogamous. He got very confused when he found himself bonding with another woman and still being in love with me. I can see how this would keep him from saying something too. I was hoping that, like when he needed to work through his family issues after his divorce, that he would come to me for that sort of thing also. I was hurt when he didn't.

He is insisting I see these other men now. I have told him I am not interested in seeing anyone and want to scale back to just us again, but he wants me to see it through and decide for my self. I have lost interest in anything that is going to any way rock the boat or add more stress and activity in my life at the moment, but as Mono seems to of really liked to see me so happy I am seeing if there is a chance that I could be happy again with all that was and is going on around me. I am not sure if its a good idea. I find it hard to trust that his pushing me out the door is for the reasons he says.

Actually, along with healing your connection with him, I do agree with Mono that you also should go out and continue seeing these new guys. For a couple of reasons...

First, being social and developing relationships is very much a part of who you are. I don't think it will serve any practical use to put that part of you on hold.

Second, you need some lightness to balance out the tough stuff; let these new guys be something of an escape and comfort, even if you are distracted when you're with them at first. And they will probably appreciate having the chance to be there for you. I'm sure, you will eventually get present and enjoy some moments, which will be soothing.

Third, I know from my own life that when an issue arises with someone I love, they can find it really irritating if I want to constantly work on it. This is something that Mono is dealing with and, yes, it affects you all, obviously, but I personally really liked it when I read that he had asked for some time to just spend together and not be analyzing and discussing. So, he has reassured you that there wasn't anything you did to push him away; he simply spent a lot of time with someone else, was surprised by his own feelings, and feels like everything is different now. He knows now that you prefer that he come to you if the stuff he's going through is difficult, but it is still his process and up to him - and if you let him be, he will come to you, I'm sure.

[redpepper]

Okay nycindie, I agree with what you are saying and I will do as you say. I think you are right. I have a date night tonight with him and we are doing nothing but spending time together, reconnecting and enjoying each others company. Its just what we need I think.

Last night I sat and rubbed his back and listened to him talk about her. I asked questions and was interested to know more. I struggled a little, but was pleased he was opening up and talking freely. We can do this. We will make it.

[nycindie]

Okay nycindie, I agree with what you are saying and I will do as you say. I think you are right.

:o Well, please only do what feels right for you - I am suddenly feeling a bit on the spot because I'm only offering my viewpoint, and while I'm glad what I said sits right with you I'm not telling you what to do, hun! I shouldn't have said "you should..." Let me amend that sentence: I do agree with Mono that it would probably be very good for you to go out and continue seeing these new guys.

I think you've def gotten some good input from other people, too.

It does sound like you are both reconnecting in a good way. More hugs to you...

[redpepper]

:o Well, please only do what feels right for you - I am suddenly feeling a bit on the spot because I'm only offering my viewpoint, and while I'm glad what I said sits right with you I'm not telling you what to do, hun! I shouldn't have said "you should..." Let me amend that sentence: I do agree with Mono that it would probably be very good for you to go out and continue seeing these new guys.

Hahaha! :D no no, I am only agreeing. I had thought of all you said already and was working towards exactly what you said. Please don't feel on the spot. It was very grounding and validating to hear you say what I had been thinking and trying to accomplish is all. :)

[redpepper]

Gaud I'm so sick of myself. How can I expect other people to enjoy my company when I don't enjoy it my self. I don't want to hang out with anyone right now. I don't even want to hear from people. Thankfully most people don't talk to me unless I reach out to them.

I'm not the best company. I don't feel particularly worthy or special in any way. I just feel like its an obligation to spend time with me and that people put in their time.

I'm not telling any of this to Mono. Maybe one day he will read this, but by then it will of passed so whatever. The expression on his face and what he says sometimes makes me realise he wishes he could run. I know how he feels, yet I stand firm that I am not going anywhere.

Tomorrow they are having a coffee date in the evening. I was asked if this is okay. How can one answer that? No = I am a controlling bitch who gets to say what happens when, yes = I don't care about you, do what you want. I feel like I am the bad guy in all this right now.

[SNeacail]

Tomorrow they are having a coffee date in the evening. I was asked if this is okay. How can one answer that? No = I am a controlling bitch who gets to say what happens when, yes = I don't care about you, do what you want. I feel like I am the bad guy in all this right now.

It's fine to say: "I'm NOT okay with this, but I know that's unreasonable, so go have a nice chat. However, I might need some extra time together (or something else) when you get home."

I truly sympathize with you on this. I've been through watching my husband develop a close relationship with another lady and because there was no sex involved, he couldn't see how I viewed this as a threat. I would say that there does need to be some boundaries (circumstance appropriate of course) put in place and treat this lady as if she was a g/f.

[InfinitePossibility]

I haven't logged on here for a while but I wanted to send you hugs and some thoughts.

I wondered if you might still be grieving the loss of Leo? I only raise it because I see some similarities in some of what you write with what I have been feeling since my Dad died in January.

At first, there was the funeral to get through and all the upset immediately before and after his death. But by now I had expected to be fine again - and I'm not.

My moods are not settled. I can be happy, hopeful and upbeat one minute and in the next, really down and feel like everything is hopeless. It seems to be part of grieving.

This may or may not help but I'm finding that making sure I have plenty of time to myself is useful. And balancing that with spending time with close friends and my SO doing different things.

Anyway - hugs. Horrible to be dealing with a breach of trust also.

IP

[Derbylicious]

I'm not the best company. I don't feel particularly worthy or special in any way. I just feel like its an obligation to spend time with me and that people put in their time.
.

Just so you know this isn't true. I enjoy spending time with you, happy you, sad you, excited you and hurting you. You ARE special even if you're not feeling it right now.

[Arrowbound]

It's fine to say: "I'm NOT okay with this, but I know that's unreasonable, so go have a nice chat. However, I might need some extra time together (or something else) when you get home."

I truly sympathize with you on this. I've been through watching my husband develop a close relationship with another lady and because there was no sex involved, he couldn't see how I viewed this as a threat. I would say that there does need to be some boundaries (circumstance appropriate of course) put in place and treat this lady as if she was a g/f.

Me three, lol. He honestly couldn't see what the problem was. "Well, you know I'm not going anywhere, and it's not like we're doing anything, so..."

It took a lot for me to not shake him.

[LovingRadiance]

Tonight Mono talked to PN about what has been going on for him. I noted that in hearing the story from both of them that the underlying theme at the moment is that everything has changed. I don't know if it has. I guess time will tell.

I haven't found my "letting it all go" button. I hope its not broken.
LOL! Those buttons tend to come and go in terms of working, at will. So be patient, even if its broken today, it may be working again shortly. :)

I'm glad that they talked too. They needed to do that. PN and LB need to know that this is a moment that needs gone through, but not the end of the world.

Gaud I'm so sick of myself.

I'm not the best company. I don't feel particularly worthy or special in any way. I just feel like its an obligation to spend time with me and that people put in their time.


Tomorrow they are having a coffee date in the evening. I was asked if this is okay. How can one answer that? No = I am a controlling bitch who gets to say what happens when, yes = I don't care about you, do what you want. I feel like I am the bad guy in all this right now.

It doesn't work that way sweetie. As Derby said-people who care about you, and I know that there are many of us who do, are happy to be around you in happiness and in sadness etc. It's ok to express your feelings. They don't have to always be good feelings!

I completely get you on the date thing. That question makes me NUTS! It's been one of the arguments for Maca and I several times. There is NO right answer to that question, because either I screw myself directly or I screw myself indirectly.
I happen to agree with SNeacail on this one, having gone through it SO MANY TIMES, Im a firm believer in telling the other person no I'm not ok with it right now,but I'm also not sure that's fair or reasonable, so I want you to go, do what you need to do and then come home and cuddle with me while I get my head around what's going on inside me.

It's fine to say: "I'm NOT okay with this, but I know that's unreasonable, so go have a nice chat. However, I might need some extra time together (or something else) when you get home."
YES YES YES

Just so you know this isn't true. I enjoy spending time with you, happy you, sad you, excited you and hurting you. You ARE special even if you're not feeling it right now.
YES YES YES

[redpepper]

That whole coming home thing is more of a conundrum. In my head it plays out like, "fuck off and leave me alone you bastard for not loving me and only me. I don't know where you have been and what you have done and for all I know you have no feelings for me at all and are just placating me," to "please hold me tight and tell me you love me and always will. Tell me you love only me and that this was all a dream and we can go back to normal." I don't know how people get through this kind of thing with any kind of self esteem and sense of self worth left.

We had a lovely night last night of no talking and processing, just closeness. Strained closeness, but closeness just the same. I felt his love for me and even if there was doubt in his eyes and pain, I at least knew he loves me.

My struggle is to not allow the doubt and lack of trust to seep in. I hear him say he is not going to take this relationship with her anywhere. I hear that they will just be friends and just work out how that will be, because he doesn't want more and is moving further away from feeling that kind of bond the way it was (mostly because of the unpheavel this has caused, not because it isn't there), but I am confused about what will happen. I am trying to live in the moment and not take what he says as him deciding that he is poly or monogamous. Just that in this circumstance he is not able, willing or wanting to go forward with a romantic relationship with her. What does it mean to decide to only have a romantic connection with one person and shove all others notions that come up? I want confirmation of what our future will be, but of course, that is impossible and not rational.

I don't get why in his mind he has become so free with me being able to date others. He says that its conformed for him now that other men are not a threat any more. How? Does that mean he cares less? He can let me go now because he doesn't love me as much or care how connected we are any more? I'm so confused.

[Arrowbound]

Or it could be that he's closer to understanding loving more than one, because he is experiencing it. Maybe now he *gets* it?

[redpepper]

Or it could be that he's closer to understanding loving more than one, because he is experiencing it. Maybe now he *gets* it?That is what he keeps saying.... that he has experienced it.

[km34]

Or it could be that he's closer to understanding loving more than one, because he is experiencing it. Maybe now he *gets* it?

I thought this and that maybe he is seeing your reaction from this whole situation he realizes how important he and your relationship are to you. Maybe other men aren't a threat anymore because it is obvious that despite (or because of depending on the perspective) the other people in your life, you cherish what you have with him.

I've never commented on your blog before, but it makes me sad how down on yourself you are getting, and like many others before I just want to say that I'm sure you two will work it out. People and perspectives change, and despite being adamant about how/who he is, maybe Mono isn't as mono as he thought.

[redpepper]

I'm trying to live in the moment today. No thought of what happened, or what could happen, just right here and right now. Its usually my poly coping strategy and I sometimes lose it and freak out when I think of what my life must look like, but today I am consciously pulling it together. Its been a week of uphevel and I am ready to balance my plates again.

Last night Mono came back from his coffee date on top of the world. It was hard to see, but I did feel some compersion and was pleased he was happy. He told me all that happened and details of what they talked about. He started his trek towards having integrity with me successfully because he seems to have behaved as he said he would and with the intentions he said he would have. I put no rules or boundaries on anything and he considered how I would feel the whole time and acted from that place of "if I do this will I be able to tell RP about it later." It was my suggestion and it seems to work for him.

I heard from my dating friend last night while Mono was gone. He asked if I would be his gf. I was startled as it came via text, so I suggested we talk on the phone. He agreed it wasn't the best timing ;) I was flattered and honoured and yes, excited by the idea of having him in my life like that. We went over what that would mean to me as I don't subscribe to primary/secondary values and as he is new to poly and has a wife and child, I fear being put in that role again. Its not one I want or will accept again. I also let him know that he would need to meet all my loves, spend some time getting them used to that idea and that I am in no rush to take more on. Tomorrow our families meet at a local family fair and parade. It will be a start at least.

[Arrowbound]

That is what he keeps saying.... that he has experienced it.

Right. And from what you've mentioned here, he's also been caught off guard by the discovery of what has always seemed to be something he was incapable of. Everybody's unearthing things, and shifting. It never comes without discomfort and pain though.


I thought this and that maybe he is seeing your reaction from this whole situation he realizes how important he and your relationship are to you. Maybe other men aren't a threat anymore because it is obvious that despite (or because of depending on the perspective) the other people in your life, you cherish what you have with him.

I've never commented on your blog before, but it makes me sad how down on yourself you are getting, and like many others before I just want to say that I'm sure you two will work it out. People and perspectives change, and despite being adamant about how/who he is, maybe Mono isn't as mono as he thought.

Me too! I wish you would give yourself more credit Red. Sometimes we don't react in ways we assumed we would. Just gotta process and work through it and come out on the other side.


I'm trying to live in the moment today. No thought of what happened, or what could happen, just right here and right now. Its usually my poly coping strategy and I sometimes lose it and freak out when I think of what my life must look like, but today I am consciously pulling it together. Its been a week of uphevel and I am ready to balance my plates again.

Last night Mono came back from his coffee date on top of the world. It was hard to see, but I did feel some compersion and was pleased he was happy. He told me all that happened and details of what they talked about. He started his trek towards having integrity with me successfully because he seems to have behaved as he said he would and with the intentions he said he would have. I put no rules or boundaries on anything and he considered how I would feel the whole time and acted from that place of "if I do this will I be able to tell RP about it later." It was my suggestion and it seems to work for him.

I heard from my dating friend last night while Mono was gone. He asked if I would be his gf. I was startled as it came via text, so I suggested we talk on the phone. He agreed it wasn't the best timing ;) I was flattered and honoured and yes, excited by the idea of having him in my life like that. We went over what that would mean to me as I don't subscribe to primary/secondary values and as he is new to poly and has a wife and child, I fear being put in that role again. Its not one I want or will accept again. I also let him know that he would need to meet all my loves, spend some time getting them used to that idea and that I am in no rush to take more on. Tomorrow our families meet at a local family fair and parade. It will be a start at least.

See?! You were very capable before the coffee date, and you still were afterwards. With all the upheaval I still see you guys making it, for sure. A huge change is not always a bad thing.

[LovingRadiance]

Hugs to my favorite polypeeps. Ok, I lie, hugs to my favorite peeps. :)
Hope you all enjoy the weekend!

[redpepper]

Kiss to LR. :)

Well, we seem to be getting into a familiar routine. It goes something like this; I live in the moment, feel like everything is normal, get about my own life and recognise my autonomy as I did before. Then time passes and I wonder what's going on and catch a bit of traction that makes the tires of my mind spin out.

PN calls it rumination, like chewing on something. To me its like a car spinning out. I find something that I can not let go of so I go to Mono, ask him about it (already agitated), he gives me an answer that leads me to realise where I have been blind or kept in the dark and I lash out with accusations and judgement. He gets angry and closes down and I storm away. After a time I humbly go back, head lowered and feeling sheepish and vulnerable and apologise, looking for affirmation and reassurance and loving acceptance of who I am.

I feel like a child. He comes off as cold in his hurt and resentment of my attitude and I feel further from him. Somehow, if I badger him, we get to a place where I get my need for closeness met. Usually its bitter sweet though, because I feel like whiney child looking for attention.

Last night I asked him what she had texted today. He told me her husband was asking why he hadn't texted and she had said she misses his texts. I snapped and said something along the lines of his not ever being present for the last months because he had spent his time texting her and he just looked sad and resentful. We managed to get to a place where I would use better communication skills (come on RP, you know this stuff!) and tell him that I "feel" as if he wasn't present with me at a time when we were together because he was texting her. He agreed to be patient and ask me to rephrase what I say to reflect feelings.

Last night was a bit of a turning point for me. Because Mono is set on me having my freedom however I want it, he comes across as backing away at a time when I need reassurance and his attention. This on top of the scenario I mentioned above adds insult to injury and I feel further from him. It makes me feel like I am not his priority when he acts like that, so for me to ask him to make me a priority over her seems hopeless and opposite of what he really wants.

He also needs his space in order to figure stuff out... adding more distance at a time when I feel very vulnerable, like I am fucking up my communication and am coming across as overly emotional to a bunch of people who don't seem as invested in communicating or showing their emotions (military?).

If I were in her position I would back away and suggest he deal with his home life and that a friendship can be worked on later. As far as I know she doesn't know the implications of her presence in my life and so carries on as if there is nothing going on. When he doesn't text as much I wonder if she wonders if its because he's done with her, or because she is causing a rift or because he used her at a time he was struggling (the latter is what Mono thinks is happening). In any case, she would likely discover that she is having an effect more than he is letting on. I would think that she would be concerned about that. To me it seems as if I am not his priority and that losing her friendship over rides his priority to me. Its more important he present as if all is well than letting on that things are rough right now. I don't know if its true, but its part of the tred mill I get on. Part of the "spinning out."

All of this keeps us from being close and from moving forward. Not to mention I feel really rushed to "get over it" as she is leaving this weekend for three months. I am rushing myself. I feel his resentment that this is happening and I am trying to wrap it up for him so he can be with her before she goes.

He says its gotten way out of control and that its been made a bigger deal than it needed to be, and that on one hand makes me think I should take it all less seriously. It also makes me think that maybe I should of been left in the dark until he got over her. On the other hand he might not of and might of cheated again as much as he did on his wife. More spinning

[Arrowbound]

Can't rush the process or yourself Red (but you know that). Just stay with it. Try to narrow the focus a bit and brake hard. You keep spinning, you'll find things that aren't even there.

[Carma]

Wow, I haven't read in quite awhile and I am so sad for what you are going through. I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but the TEXTING game can get out of control! It is the channel by which the other woman became a primary, where that was never supposed to happen. We had other problems that I was in denial over, but I just wanted to put in my 2 cents here. Hugs.

[redpepper]

Thank you Carma and Arrowbound. :)

We had a really nice night quietly watching a documentary, eating together and then did some of our own thing together. I did some painting in the new space we set up after I lost my studio (my parents moved from the house my studio was in) and Mono took apart some computers. It was nice to sit and enjoy being near. We talked to ourselves and occasionally each other and checked our phones now and then awkwardly, ;) it was a relaxed and much needed quiet evening.

I have been continuing to see the other men in my life and went on a friendly date this week with someone who has been in my life for awhile. It was interesting to try on the idea of something more, but really, our friendship means more to me.

My new friend came over this weekend and we all hung out in the front yard while I worked on the van washing it and making sure it runs. I washed it with Mono and LB's help and now its ready to have adventures. PN put up tents to see which one he will take on an up coming trip. We all chatted and joked around while we did our projects. It was a lot of fun.

The day before my dating friend came over with his wife and three year old to meet everyone and watch a local parade. Everyone seemed to get along okay. Mono said he liked the families energy and didn't find it strained at all. PN seemed to like them also. He and my friend have writing common.

Last week my dating friend asked if we could be bf/gf. It was bad timing to ask, but the possibility is there. He is a lovely man and we are very alike. We think the same way about emotions and relationship dynamics. It just needs some time yet.

Derby and I and the kids all went to a local fair after the parade and my new friend came with us. It was an exhausting day, but we had a lot of fun. :)

[MonoVCPHG]

You know how to pick nice people to bring into your life, Lilo :) Love you!

[Arrowbound]

You know how to pick nice people to bring into your life, Lilo :) Love you!

*waves*

[redpepper]

You being one of them my love Mono :)

[redpepper]

We just put LB's guinea pig, Wheekers Pistachio down. :( he wasn't eating and I was syringing water and mashed up pellets into him. The vet said his teeth weren't doing their job any more and that he was actually a very old little man. So LB and I decided to say goodbye. LB and I stayed home today from school and work so as to deal with our sadness. We brought him home from the SPCA (society for the prevention of cruelty to animals) as our guinea pig and it feels good that it was us that took him to say goodbye.

It amazes me how the affect of one small animal can change a person. I had a rat I loved just as much and several cats, dogs and other small animals that didn't effect my life as much. When my big brown tabby, Trevor goes I will be devistated. Yet not so much if my torteshell cat (now Dave's), Georgia goes. I love them, don't get me wrong, but some pets hold special places in my heart and I am deeply connected with them on a soul level.

So it goes with people to. Some are huge in terms of presence and influence and others not so much. This has been my reminder so far this last six months. This seems to be what goes around in my head more than anything. Everyone in my life has a place in my heart, yet some move me to believe that our soul purpose in life is to be together. Some are laughter and light. They move around me and through me in joy and fun, others move me to work at what we have. To sink deeply into them and them into me in order to create something profound and beyond the realm of what we know is reality. All of it is worth it.

Strangely enough I knew that Pistachio and I were connected when I first saw him. His brave little heart was aching for a good home (as were all of our pets hearts as they all come from shelters) and I committed to giving him the best. Never was a guinea pig taken care of as well as he. Anyone who knew him will attest to that. I am proud of his care and the home we gave him. He trusted us slowly but by the end of his life he was eager to be held and snuggled, would lye on his back to be pet, relaxed in our arms and felt completely safe. I want everyone in my life to feel that with me in their life. However big or small. I will keep at it and stay brave even in the face of the pain it sometimes brings.

[nycindie]

Aww, sorry for your loss, RP. Perhaps you felt close to this pet even more so because you and LB picked him out and brought him home. I remember you once wrote in this thread how you were on the couch and balancing a bunch of stuff, picked up the guinea pig and somehow he peed right into your coffee cup. Hahahaha!

My cat is about 17 years old now. He's crazy but is really feeling his age, moans and groans whenever he tries to get comfortable. He sleeps so soundly he doesn't even wake up until I pet him, when he used to pop up all alert as soon as I walked in the door. I've had him since before his eyes opened (less than 10 days old), when his alley cat mother had abandoned him. He was always a little weirdo, with one of his big fangs much, much longer than the other, not very affectionate, somewhat brain-damaged, I think. But I will miss him when he goes.

[redpepper]

Ahhh, your 17 year old sounds like my Trevor nycindie. Its such a mixed blessing having pets. :) thanks for your story about your old guy. What's his name?

[Tonberry]

I had a guinea pig when I was a kid. She dies when I was 17, I was so sad... I remember, I went to pet her, put my hand into her house as I often did, and when I petted her I immediately knew something was wrong. I lifted up her house (I had made it with my dad, out of wood, she had been eating the doorway as she grew so she could fit through) and I saw that she was dead. Her eyes just looked different.

It was so sad, and yet it was a good death, she died old and in her own little house. I'm very sorry for your loss. My guinea pig was an albino, her name was Framboise, which means Raspberry in French.
I still have her ashes in a sweet little box with flowers on it. She was the first pet that was just mine, the other pets were household pets, they were everyone's, and as hard as it was when they died, it wasn't as personal.
Now I have three cats and two dogs, but out of them only one was really my pet, a cat I got when I was 19. I hope she lives a long time, I know I'll be devastated when she dies. Even though she can be so grumpy, and she keeps knocking things off my desk when I'm trying to work :)

You and LB have all my wishes. I know people often brush it off when they hear a pet dies, but it can be a very emotional time and I'm very sorry for you guys.

[redpepper]

Thanks Tonberry. Thanks for your stories too :)

[redpepper]

So there was a few upsets this week, but things have eased off a bit now that the woman Dave has been interested in has left town for quite some time. First of all I had a hard time with him coming home late from their last coffee "date" together. He said he was going to grocery shop near the place that they were having coffee and I thought he meant with her. He was late coming home because of it. It turned out that I had apparently got the time wrong. I thought he said "I will be home at 9.30" and he says he said "about 9.30" :rolleyes: I dunno... anyyyy way...

He also got the store name confused and was at the store near our house and not the one near the coffee shop and he was not with her. It took me about a half hour to come down from all that and trust that he was telling me the truth, but I managed to because he buttered me up and attempted to cuddle into me. He was finally being affectionate and comforting without me having to ask for reassurance. I think because he has given it all a bunch of thinking time and is content to remain friends.

My communication skills were a bit better as I told him how I feel, but later launched into sarcasm and accusing. Its so hard to get it right when I feel threatened, fearful, that I am being lied to... I did better than I have so far though and that was good enough for me. Mono also gave me the feed back that I needed to work on it more. :o

He is more concerned now that he will lose his friendship with her because I am struggling than he is about being any closer. I can't help feeling that I am the cause of their sadness around not being able to hang out, text and email all the time. He says they are sad because they hurt me and that I am struggling, but I find it hard to let go of that.

I don't think he got it until recently that his keeping his connection with her secret could be seen as one way emotional cheating. He thought that he could keep it in, handle it and that it would all be okay as long as he didn't act on it. He might be right. I don't know. He didn't realize though that the way he has been behaving and talking has made this into something big and caused him to re-read his old posts here so that he can remember where he has been with the cheating thing. Remind himself about WHY I might be so concerned and troubled over this.

Later this past week I saw a photograph that indicated a computer screen of Mono's that had a stream of emails on it all from her. There was thread after thread of emails. I was astonished and fell right back again to no trusting him. He never saves emails, he has always erased them all after he has responded to the person. Saving hers was to me covetous of him. I wondered if its because he is holding on to words she has said to him privately, or words he has said privately. I remembered back to our emails and how private they are and envisioned similar messages.

It took me some time to let go of the image and to believe him when he said that it was his work email, not a secret account and that they are not filled with anything but banter and work stuff. I did point out that he usually doesn't save emails and that his behaviour is not that of a "friend." This is when he seemed to realize that I might see his behaviour as "like" cheating.

I got through it more quickly that before though and talked myself down from that place of being on the ceiling, lump in throat, the floor having fallen below me and that numb "stupid" feeling one gets with these sorts of trauma and threat. I am able to get to a place of trust more easily now than before because I have worked on separating myself from him more. I also did better in my communication and felt I made a little more headway there.

This weekend was a school camping trip I arranged for the kids and families of the school. I got our van on the road with much help from others. Especially my new friend.... who I will now call "Ken" as I am not thinking he is as "new" as he once was ;). Ken came to the rescue when I got half way there and the engine wouldn't turn over. He kindly came out and fixed it for me. Derby and I were pleased to be on our way after that. He came out to visit for a fire later in the evening. We have been getting along great after a really great coffee chat last week where we discussed that friendship is all we have right now and that that is enough. He would like more, but I explained that really, A good friend is what I am missing in life and what I am looking for in him. :)

My dating friend.... "Brad" and I haven't seen much of each other in the last while. We saw each other as families last weekend, but not privately. We are having coffee together this week and are all going to his place for a family bbq in a couple of weeks. I miss seeing him, but it turns out that both of us have had some stuff to work through and this time for ourselves has been much needed. We chat every day and phone each other sometimes. It seems to be keeping our relationship in good health thus far. I wonder what more will come. It will be an interesting weekend this weekend as he is about to meet some people from my past who don't know we are seeing each other. I don't know if they know and don't really care, but it makes me a bit nervous. This community is so small in the long run.:)

Derby has been deep in her emotions lately over a friend of hers. She was working on looking at her emotions and wouldn't you know it, she has had to work hard as of late. She is consumed with all that is going on for her in the last while and I haven't really heard to much from her. I have been contacting her every day though just to remind her that I am out here ;)

Mono and I spent the day at a local music festival yesterday and had a really good time connecting and feeling free with the help of some really good music and beer tasting. :) We seem to be on a good track now and he is helpfully telling me whenever the woman contacts him. It has helped to not have to ask. It sounds silly to want to know, but I think, in time, we will get to the point where I won't care. Once I have caught up on what is going on and it all normalizes.

I saw one of her fb messages today and it said what he said it said. I saw it by mistake when I didn't realize he was logged in and I saw her name come up. It was an accident that I admitted to. I didn't read it but could see enough to know the content. Lots of explanation marks and the use of the term "retard." I am very much against that word being used to describe people due to my job with people who struggle with developmental and cognitive disabilities so I could feel myself burning up over it... but pushed that away for the better feeling of "yay, he isn't lying to me!" :D

Thinking about a funeral for a guinea pig this week :( Not fun, but we are all getting by. PN admitted that although he was against the little fellow to start with, he loved the guy and is sad he is gone. LB is just quiet and sad... he has had a good weekend with his friends though and that has helped a little. It was hard for him to come home to an empty cage and all his things put away. We talk of him often and are planning a ceremony soon.

[Arrowbound]

I think the ceremony will be a good thing. I know some people are against bringing kids around when it comes to death and dying, but honestly in a lot of cases I don't think it does them any favours. It's important to have that time to say goodbye.

And look how far you've come! The spinning has slowed down a bit, I can see that. Sometimes it just takes time and reassurance for an eventual centering of self. I realize I'll need that myself for an upcoming event my SO and I are supposed to be going to.

[SNeacail]

My communication skills were a bit better as I told him how I feel, but later launched into sarcasm and accusing. Its so hard to get it right when I feel threatened, fearful, that I am being lied to... I did better than I have so far though and that was good enough for me.

WOW, this sounds familiar... too familiar. Those damn sarcastic comments just have a mind of their own. :eek:

Mono also gave me the feed back that I needed to work on it more. :o

I hate hearing this too.

I don't think he got it until recently that his keeping his connection with her secret could be seen as one way emotional cheating. He thought that he could keep it in, handle it and that it would all be okay as long as he didn't act on it.

This tends to be a typical "guy" thing. When my husband does this, there is a great deal of denial going on also. He doesn't want it to appear a certain way, therefore in his mind it doesn't. He can't understand why all my cheating alarms went off and I'm now an emotional wreck. I am learning to calm myself through my initial outrage, consciously decide to give him the benefit of the doubt and then approach him with my questions as well as calmly tell him that certain actions set off the cheating alarm,etc. It doesn't always work, but when it does, I feel better and he makes a greater effort to be more transparent. I still have a lot of work to do on my delivery :p.

[redpepper]

Thanks both of you. I feel so much better when I get some grounding feed back that I am not alone and that time and process help.

[redpepper]

The woman is gone now for a couple of months and life is getting back to "normal." Having had a chance to re-group I realize how much I need reassurance constantly, attention to my feelings, touches, eyes on me and gentleness. A bit of "words of affirmation" goes really far with me. Even if its not completely honest at the time in terms of the person feeling it. Faking it until you make it would be fine with me... I just don't want to know that is what it is... DADT on "words of affirmation" I guess that would be. I would be able to tell though anyway as I can tell if someone is genuine by the attention to detail they have in our interactions.

Mono is not so good at attention giving when we are struggling. He cocoons and decides that he will go it alone; almost getting to the point where he decides that it is best for everyone if he just ends everything and leaves because he doesn't want to hurt others or hurt him self any more. This is the exact opposite of what I need as the vacancy and distance creates more threat and fear for me. It makes me feel like I have no control over my destiny when he thinks like that. Where do I get to share in the decision to be done? How is it he thinks he can decide what and how much is too much for me?

He says that he is going to do what makes him more comfortable and what works for him best. I have to trust and realize that I have to look after my self in these matters and create my own reassurance etc. I think I did that really well actually during these last weeks. Better than in the past. The thing is it makes me unable to trust him. It makes me distance myself and become cocooned in my own thoughts and self preservation. Then we are suppose to somehow find each other in that? We seem to of done that however and are re-acquaintancing ourselves with each other again.

PN is off to a music festival this weekend and I have had some time to be with Mono and by myself. I had a bath last night and drank a large martini. It was HEAVENLY. Just heavenly. It felt like a large chunk of weighty worry and baggage feel off and went down the drain with the bath water.

On Monday morning I will wake up by myself and get myself to work by myself for the first time in 10 years. LB is going to his grandparents after I sing tomorrow in a local festival's main stage. I have the night with Mono and then a morning to my self. ahhhhh...

I watched derby's bout tonight with my dad, brother, Mono and LB. Her family was out also and we all went and had a bite to eat after. It was a fun night. My dad seemed to enjoy it, which was a surprise to me. He is up for much more than I believe him to be actually.

I haven't been keeping up here at all. Somehow the stories and chat are all too much for me right now. My strength has been gone. Its coming back slowly, but I don't want to use it up right now. The woman will be back again and what was boxed up could be brought out again... still working on not worrying about it or being so involved with their connecting with each other. I hope to get to place where the threat of his not telling me stuff is not as big an issue soon. Its coming. :)

[LovingRadiance]

I'm glad you're taking care of yourself RP. Hugs.

[Outsider]

RP said

"It amazes me how the affect of one small animal can change a person. I had a rat I loved just as much and several cats, dogs and other small animals that didn't effect my life as much. When my big brown tabby, Trevor goes I will be devistated. Yet not so much if my torteshell cat (now Dave's), Georgia goes. I love them, don't get me wrong, but some pets hold special places in my heart and I am deeply connected with them on a soul level.

So it goes with people to. Some are huge in terms of presence and influence and others not so much. This has been my reminder so far this last six months. This seems to be what goes around in my head more than anything. Everyone in my life has a place in my heart, yet some move me to believe that our soul purpose in life is to be together. Some are laughter and light. They move around me and through me in joy and fun, others move me to work at what we have. To sink deeply into them and them into me in order to create something profound and beyond the realm of what we know is reality. All of it is worth it."

There's a signature line in there someplace. You might consider printing it out and displaying it someplace where you can see it. It's a great reminder.

Good luck

[redpepper]

There seems to ba a theme lately of people changing in my life. There seems to be death and re-birth everywhere. Wondering where it will place me in the world when the cards fall to the ground.

My relationship with Mono has changed some how but I haven't understood how yet I don't think. I love him. Oh boy do I love him, but I'm annoyed with that some how as I've been a silly little girl in that I think. I naively believed in the monogamous dream with him and that's gone. It was like one last ditch effort to think that someone could love me and love me only. I feel stupid about it.

I feel close to PN at the moment in a stead fast and lasting way. We will of been married 12 years this summer and every moment has been worth it. There is no other that I have run across that would make a more suitable husband. I am really blessed to be married to him.

Derby is encompassed by everything that her name means lately. There is a lot of emotional stuff going on too that has made it so she needs private thinking time. Lots of change and growth for her as well maybe?

Brad is becoming a fixture in my life and I am enjoying the buzz of that. We are slowly becoming close and intimate. The pace is just right for me. I lavish it and enjoy every moment. Time apart is hard, but we are not in a rush so its worth it to wait.

Ken is becoming a dear friend. I enjoy his company immensely and look forward to a summer of much fun. I think he is disappointed that I don't feel as he does, but really, I see our relationship as something that will grow in time and one that holds much possibility.

I need friends. Doing a tally of how many I have that I spend time with often, there was none. My biggest goal this year is to nurture some good friendships. Hopefully heal some lost ones too.

There are many details in all this that I could share. Many stories wrapped around each person. Perhaps my biggest goal right now is to connect with myself more and when I dwell on each story going on with each person I am consumed with that and not being grounded in my own life. For now its best to say that everyone who knows me who reads this knows where we are at and if they don't, they can reach out and ask. "I am my own primary." This is my mantra.

[redpepper]

Perhaps my favourite parts of the weekend were going to Brad's house for a BBQ to spend time as a group and get to know each other, making a spot to put my hammock up in the back yard with Ken, going to the local Canada day celebrations with Mono, PN and LB in the camper van, going to Derby's for an impromptu BBQ and getting all my burlesque stuff.

Brad's wife is a lovely woman with a big heart. She has been welcoming and generous to me and my family. She has gone out of her way to be kind and thoughtful to me and its making me feel accepted. I had been very nervous about new metamours in my life after the hurt I went through of trying to establish some kind of connection with my last one (Leo's wife). Metamour relationships are the back bone of a good relatuonship I find and I am really pleased that so far me and Brad's wife seem to be on the same page with me about that. Both of them are reching out to know all my loves too. It makes me feel like we can act as a team where Brad is concerned if need be.

I am enjoying Brad's little boy too. He's a 4 year old little cutie. Unlike LB, he is active, boysterous and eager to involve everyone around him in his adventures. He's a pleasure to be around and I admire how he is being raised. Brad and his wife's parenting style is similar to mine. I think that is partly why.

Canada day was spent walking around the city taking in activities at various stages around town. They had bands playing, markets to browse through and lots of people watching. Most of the people were bewlidered American tourists taking In our version of celebration of our countries birthday. There were also many teens and 20 somethings boozing it up as night came and time for fireworks came close.

In the evening we headed back to the camper van where we met PN. We made hotdogs on the stove and coffee and sat and watched the sun go down and the peope heading downtown. We parked in a spot near a local attraction so we went and had a look and ate some ice cream. Mono and PN played hacky sack a bit (I joined in for awhile) and the crowds swarmed around us until it was time to watch the fireworks. After that it took us an hour to get home as we waited for the traffic to die down.

I got myself a burlesque gig for July as I cleaned up my stuff and assest what I needed to fix and rework. Strange that I haven't looked at it in weeks and right when I go to clean it up I get a message about the gig. I am so excited!

I was sad yesterday as I worked. Or more like hurt over the changes that seem to of come into my life. I am trying to invite change, but the threat of Mono's adventures in having poly feelings is continuing to throw me for a loop. I'm trying to ignore the feeling and deal with it alone rationally and without emotion. For the most part I'm succeeding, but I feel like I am not quite ready to talk about it when I feel I must as everyone around me is affected.

To top it off I felt a bit ripped off on two date nights this week when PN decided to go to a party for most of one and a movie on his own for another (we couldn't get a sitter). This morning I feel better but only got a couple of hours of sleep as a result of over thinking and now have taken a sick day from work to catch up on sleep. Its rainy here today, shouldn't be hard to let myself slumber I think. :)

[redpepper]

Mono and I have decided that I am going to work on not being worried I am hurting him by having Brad in my life, he is going to work on not worrying whether or not I am happy with him or not. I am going to work on trusting again and he is going to work on open and honest communication.

We are both trusting our resilience and trusting each others stay-bility (made that word up). We both agree that we are life loves that will be supporting and loving each other for a long time to come. That is where we are on the same wave length so that is where we shall rest our trust and do our work for now. :) sorting it out! Yay!

Had a walk and tea with Ken yesterday and he told me he is glad that we are friends too. He needed (needs) time to figure out where to go next in life and us being friends will be better in the long haul from where we both sit right now. It feels good to have that sorted out a bit more. I feel as if I am resting on trusting that we are in a good place also.

I'm seeing Brad tonight after some burlesque costuming with some of the ladies. It will be a quick visit I think as it will be late. His in-laws are coming soon so I am wondering how much we will see of each other.

I think back to a couple of months ago when we first met. Such a lot has happened. He feels so naturally part of my life now.

I am concerned that he has some connections to people I am not on good terms with right now and am wondering what my role is, if any, in that. He wants me to come to events that he and his wife go to but I can't because of these people. I am wondering if I should try and make a change there for everyone's sake. Is it my responsibility to do that? I feel as if I would be interrupting them as I don't know where they are at with me and don't want to take their separateness from me away. I think they might be preferring I am not in their immediate circle. Brad would like me to be in that same circle... For now I am leaving it and just seeing if it becomes necessary. I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable. I would rather put that feeling on my shoulders than expect others to shoulder it for me. Still mulling over what the best thing to do is and have more to talk to him about.

[redpepper]

Quietly tired and happy tonight after a full and fun weekend.

Mono and I went to visit our old friends from the days of him living on his own and when I first met him. We had a fun night of tequila shots and a good laugh. They wanted us to stay the night as is customary, but I am glad we didn't as Saturday was busy and eventful.

We did house stuff and garden stuff until the evening when Mono and I went to watch the UFC fights at a local pub near our house. PN had a friend over and LB was out so we all got to do what we wanted.

In the evening I took Mono to a burlesque party for a local starlet who was having a birthday. I felt honoured to of been asked as she is something of a star around here and besides, I like hanging out with the people that went.

Later we went to the gay bar for dancing and to celebrate pride weekend. Mono and I brought the place down at the end of the night long after all the others left. We used to dance there in our early days and it had been a long time. We had some long loving kisses and dancing together and it made me forget all the lack of trust I have been feeling for a time. I felt him loving me strongly and was grateful.

Mono enjoyed being hit on by the men and I enjoyed attention from a cute baby dyke who was so young! Like 20? She obviously didn't see very clearly in the dark and had had too much to drink. She poured her beer in my shoe when she leaned over to ask me to dance. It made me laugh and remember my youth as a young butchy lesbian back in the day trying to court the more fem types. Boy things have changed!

Today we went to the pride parade and met up with loads of friends and people from my past lesbian days. I love meeting them there every year and re-connecting. We put a blanket down in front of the stage and had lots of visitors. Including Ken and Brad (and his family). Who finally met! They seemed to get on okay. Early days yet, but they both made an effort to speak with one another and that meant a lot to me. I love them both, but in different ways, and I love to see people I love meeting and spending time together.

Derby came and snuggled with me on the blanket after her derby girl parade skating. I was dressed in my burlesque persona and we walked around hand in hand derby girl and burlesquer all smiley and happy to spend some time together. We had a cuddle and talk and some lipstick smearing kissing on the blanket while Mono watched out the corner or his snoozy eye. He had been napping in the sun with a restless LB crawling all over him.

PN took off for what seemed like hours to chat up a woman he likes and to visit a friend and when he came back we headed out for a coffee at a local coffee shop before coming home for a BBQ and a quiet night nursing our sun-soaked selves....

Not bad for a weekend. :) I am happy and feel grounded. Apart from some conversations about phone usage and what is going on for Mono and his connection with his friend (both of which kept me from sleeping. I just don't sleep now when the whole topic comes up), the weekend was virtually process free for the first time in ages. For two days almost solidly I had no discussion or process to go through with any of my loves. Surprising and a welcome break. :) I am sure that trend will end shortly. It always does. More loves? More process. Just how it is.

[SNeacail]

I am happy and feel grounded.

:D

[redpepper]

This years Poly Family camp seems to of been a huge success. I hosted along with other volunteers and together as a team we did a really good job. Probably the most successful event I have been involved in to date. I am so proud and pleased with the result. There was about 50 people there, including kids and together we took over a group site at a local provincial park on a lake. It was private, close to the beach and was big enough for all. It would of worked better if it was bigger, but next year we are thinking of taking over some neighboring sites for those who prefer to not live so communally.

The best parts of camp were the coffee every morning. BIG thanks to the coffee fairy! ;) Without coffee in the morning, I am hooped. I also enjoyed adults and kids alike dressing up and doing a variety show. The kids played with the numerous costumes all day and did their own skit. I loved watching the nerf war and water play go on between kids and adults. The bubble guns lite up at the light dance were beautiful, along with many glo sticks lighting up the lawn and christmas lights glowing as we danced to alternative dance music and later 80's pop. I made a frankenstuffy (chopped up stuffed animals that are then re-sewn), chatting to the teens, and some new adult friends. There were some great touch workshops and writing workshops. There was a nature walk for the kids. A treasure hunt. A potluck dinner.... much more.

Mono swam about five times on Saturday and took LB along with him. LB told me that him and Mono NEED a nerf gun... lol and of course nerf battle axes too. He talks about Mono like he's his big brother. :p Mono and PN hacky sacked for about five hours and got dressed by others in hoola dresses when they took a break. After being dressed up they went back for hacking.

I got to spend a night with my derby love. She brought her own tent and decorated it with a lovely scarf on the ceiling. It was cozy and cuddly in there and we had some fun sexy times. We don't get that time often and I was thrilled she made an effort to create the time and space. Its been a busy spring. We needed it. :)

Ken came along too and he and derby and I did a variety show skit about them creating a unicorn with magic potions and incantations. I got a whole bottle of glitter poured on my head by Ken that stuck to everyone and everything. You could tell who was close to me all weekend by how much glitter was on them. :D

Brad came out with his wife and their boy for a day. They aren't campers and their child doesn't sleep at night very well (4years old) so they didn't stay but wish they had planned to as they found some people to talk to and participated in the activities easily. I loved watching Brad and Mono hold up the curtain for the show. I was filled with Joy and NRE for both of them. Come to think about it I was on an NRE high for everyone close to me this weekend... I guess that isn't NRE... its that constant state of content glee, joy and contentment of being with those that love me and I love them.

When I got home I was tired, happy and sad at the same time and crashed. I had some loving time with PN and then went down to spend time with Mono. I couldn't seem to get out of my head that Mono was keeping things from me and refused to cuddle up to him. He went off to bed with a shrug and didn't attempt to adequately tell me that nothing was going on and that he was being truthful about that. After lying awake for some time I decided to go and talk to him and ask him again. He said there was nothing going on and I told him I would trust that... I asked that next time I suddenly get scared and fearful that something is going on that he help me reach a place of trust again. Being left is not the best idea on his part and keeps us from connecting again. I need him to reassure me and keep at it until I tell him that I am okay. In the meantime I will work on changing my thought patterns.

I am left wondering what it was all about. I had such a great weekend and I just plummeted in fear, threat of abandonment and found it hard to trust. I was proud of how I turned it around fairly quickly and talked my self out of the irrational feelings, but I am left confused and wondering now how that happened and how I to stop myself next time.

[rory]

I think the timing has to do with having had such a tiring weekend. For me at least tiredness can definitely be a factor that raises unpleasant feelings, even if it is the result of most wonderful time I've had.

The event sounds great, good job! :)

[redpepper]

Just wrote this to Brad via text:

"My heart is bigger than I am. Unfortunately."
"My brain doesn't have a hope in hell most of the time"

Its been a crazy week. Ken has found himself a girlfriend. A monogamous one. She happens to be my co-worker of 10 years and a close friend. We were at a party a couple of weeks go and I let her know that he would be there and reminded her that he is single. The rest took care of itself.

This friend and I sent our kids to the same day care, she guided me through the early years of my son being born, half her wardrobe is stuff I've given her that was once mine, we have spoken in depth about poly and I have watched her go through a lot of relationships. I've supported her and she me through some major life journeys.

Last I heard she would not date a man who's heart is not fully focussed on her. She doesn't think she could be in a relationship with someone who is not monogamous. At one point she wouldn't date PN when I suggested it because he is with me. At the time I thought about it after and realised that would be difficult for us all as I work with her. I would be working with my metamour. A situation I would try to avoid. As it is, I don't usually allow myself to be friends with co-workers, but her and I have always resonated on a different level than most and I have always thought that if we didn't work together its likely we would be closer friends. I purposely separate myself from too much emotional entanglement with people at work. It just hasn't faired well in the past.

I tried to back away, earlier this week, by telling him I thought I should not talk to him for awhile, but he isn't budging on trying to work out a friendship right now. I didn't want her to find out he loves me, but I actually think he really doesn't now. I wonder if he really ever did. He said things that convinced me believe him but I think he loved a notion of something better for himself. He could have that with her, I thought, if I backed away. Kind of a gift from me to their possible future together.

Now I am realising that I am likely being demoted in Ken's eyes. What once was a situation of my being a fill in girlfriend is now a situation of my being a friend. I didn't realise that in making the choice a few monthes back, to not date him because he was going through a break up and I didn't want to be a rescue gf, that I would end up in so much pain as I watch him move on. That I would be in pain watching my ecstatic friend.

I chose Brad. I chose the four I am close to... There is really no time for more. I realised that and I felt I had to go with what looked like the best option. He needed more than I could give. It was a good choice because my love for Brad has grown into something that works. I have four already now but my heart is bigger than the universe it feels like. Time and other things in life get in the way I guess. Its just how it is.

Don't get me wrong. I knew this day would come. I practised what I would make my brain think. I sat in those feelings and decided that the ones I was forcing myself to sit in were appropriate and healthy for all of us. In the mean time we grew closer. Physically we didn't get closer, but mentally we did and therefore my heart followed suit. I was proud of the fact I had a plan to search out the feeling of a friend seeing two friends happy together and will find that again inside me and grasp on as hard as I can.

I need time now. Its all happened so fast and as it should, but I need time to heal again. This seems to be a year of that kind of roller coaster. I'm exhausted through lack of sleep and "fucked heart" syndrome (as I said to Brad).

Mono doesn't get it. I don't really want to involve him in any of this anyway as I feel he judges me (my perception, he says he's confused) and last time I went through hurt he went elsewhere for attention. That is still to fresh right now to trust he won't do that again.

PN listens, as does derby. They pass on what they know from their infinite wisdom and what they know of Ken and I. I piece it all together as best I can.

Tonight I will meet up with Ken for what I think will be a mock break up to our mock love affair. Perhaps things will be clearer after that and after a weekend away from work and a weekend for him to indulge in his new love.

[redpepper]

I have agreed to wait and see and not make plans to abandon my friendship with Ken. He asked me to see if it works out and I will. I don't see how it will turn out well as I have gone over (at all hours of the morning) different scenarios and possible complications in my mind and can see that all of us, depending on the scenario, stand to get hurt. Still, here we are... In it and just waiting to see. Again.

The tricky part for me will be to see how much monogamous values play into the future of our friendships. I wonder if the monogamous values my co-worker has will be challenged and what that will be like for her. I wonder how much he will be worth to her. I wonder how my poly values will be challenged and how much that will be worth it.

Right now its the beginning time for them when generally people are still feeling autonomous from new partners and are able to make statements such as "you do what you want in life" with confidence that they can separate themselves quite well because it doesn't feel foreign to do so. Given time, often people merge until it becomes impossible to be okay with watching a partner spend time with another person that they know they have a connection with. Such scenarios for Ken and I come to mind such as his coming to my burlesque shows, or going on the poly camp trip together at the end of the summer.

Sure, burlesque shows and poly camp or going to various events I host might become a thing of the past for him and that would be sad for me. Its his choice. It happens that way when new people come into any relationship dynamic. What was once a normal activity becomes a threat or isn't interesting any more. We aren't partners, we are friends and it shouldn't matter. Thing is I don't really know how to be friends with him in this way. I guess this is my learning curve. What I do just won't be as interesting. That's how it goes when someone new comes along. Not much different than any other poly dynamic. NRE abounds for him I am guessing, just as it would if we were dating.

I said to him to stay true to himself when I left him yesterday. I just hope he remembers to make choices that reflect what he thinks and feels and not for other people. We talked a bit about making decisions and choices that come from thinking about what we want, need and what feels right to us. What resonates with ourselves rather than because someone else is confident in what resonates for them. I hope he found some value in my saying what I did yesterday and doesn't take the easier route of following what me or her or anyone else thinks he should do.

Regardless of what I agreed to, I must admit I am preparing for some shit hitting the fan. Wouldn't you know it, she's now off of work for a month and comes back to work the same week that Mono's lady friend comes back to town. Stay tune this September when redpepper loses her mind! ;)

[redpepper]

My friend wrote on her blog a post about what it means to be completely open and free from the shackles of fear and attachment. I would add to that. I would add certainty and doubt to that also. Certainty and doubt are shackles also I think.

She reminded me how, when I open myself up, I become vulnerable but that beyond that there is complete freedom. Fear and vulnerability disappear. Emotion becomes so deep its almost shattering its so loud. It feels like floating weightless on and ocean, lost at sea, but knowing the shore is close at hand and its swimable to reach it.

I am reminded by her that events unfold regardless of my clambering to control them and that everything passes. If I can reach that place of openness then I will be free from all of that and even if that floating feeling comes and goes in a moment, once reached I can obtain it again. This is what I stay awake for at night. This is what I practice over and over. I am working on finding that place of "open" so I can find it when I want to find it. So it gives me perspective and releases me from control.

To do that I let my mind wander where it will. I have given up trying to control it. Its lead to my burn out. I decided there must be a better way to deal with things that haunt me. I lay there, huddled with the blanket up to my mouth fearful of every thought that comes to mind. I suppose some people in the poly world would call it jealousy or envy, but really, its all just fear. To me jealousy and envy are what occurs in that moment of being informed of something that could be a threat. Allowing that to fester without working through it is what jealousy and envy are to me. Working on that feeling, pulling apart the emotions that tangle together in jealousy and envy is something different. To me it boils down to fear.

I allow myself to fear when I lay in bed at night and then mold it. I've discovered that I can stand outside of it and look in on it. When I can do that I can pick pieces of the scenario and let my mind go from what I know to be what is happening to what could happen. Every scenario plays itself out until there is nothing more I can think of. Its an exercise in futility to one extent because I can't predict what will happen, but I find some kind of comfort in being prepared for anything. It allows me to find that moment of openness. I eventually reach a place where I float and feel shattered emotionally. Euphoric and exhausted. A world where only I exist. Finally I sleep.

[redpepper]

Did I ever mention I have the best girlfriend ever! Derby is one of a kind. She really is an inspiration to me. I have learned so much from her about how to remain grounded in my emotions and that they will pass in time regardless of how I respond to them or don't. She is a rock to me in so many ways. I am really fortunate she is in my life.

This weekend she asked me if she could take me on a secret date. I made the arrangements to have saturday afternoon off and went to her house. She got me in her car and drove for about 45 minutes to a remote spot where she turned off the high way and went along a country road. All the while we chatted excitedly about things going on in our lives and the lives of others. The windows were down, the sun was hot, the radio on. Already just the drive was thrilling me to bit. :)

I watched out the window until finally she turned off into a long driveway surrounded by fields of grape vines. She was taking me to a vineyard! It was beautiful! Queen Annes lace in between the rows, crickets buzzing, dry yellow grass and the promise of grapes just bursting into fruit on the vines.

At the vineyard we sat in the shade on the patio along with other patrons all glowing in the sun. It was quiet except for chatting, cutlery and glasses coming together and wait staff reading out the specials. We had a delicious meals and wine parings and then a coffee before we walked hand in hand among the vines.

At one point I turned and held her face close to mine, pulled her in closely so our hips met and gave her a long meaningful kiss. It made me weepy to be there with her. I weep now at the memory. What does this beautiful woman see in me. What is it that she feels for me that she would create such a wonderful moment. I loved her so deeply in that moment and I will remember it always. Those are the moments that I will cherish as I grow older and as time passes. I am so blessed. So incredibly blessed.

[marksbabygirl]

Where's the *love* button?

She is pretty amazing... and your description of the date was really sweet :)

[redpepper]

Marksbabygirl has been staying at Derby's house for a bit for a visit. We all went out to Karaoke the other night. Fun times. It was really great to meet you the other day Jane. :)

I haven't written for what seems like ages because there is so much going on right now I haven't had a chance and can't seem to find where to start.

Ken texted me today under the week we agreed upon. I didn't mind, I thought it was kind of cute and was really pleased to hear from him. I can't believe its only been a week! It feel so much longer.

It seems that the purpose of our not spending time together might of been lost on him. The idea revolved around my staying away so that he could have a chance to talk to his new girlfriend about what her expectations are in terms of a relationship with him. I have been waiting to find out if I was right and that she would not be willing to tolerate him having another person he loves in his life.

It doesn't sound like he has asked her about her feelings and thoughts on people loving more than one, even if that love is not acted on romantically. I don't think he has talked with her about his loving more than one person wither. I don't know for sure though. We are hoping to find a time to phone each other. After that it will be two weeks before we talk again if we agree that the course of action we are on is a good idea. If he does talk to her and finds that she is okay with him loving me as well as her then this whole separateness is for nothing and we will have to figure out what to do next I guess. I am hoping I will be forgotten and that he will find he only loves her. That my even mentioning that he loves me will become a joke to him and feel like a coat that is too small, awkward. I don't know if that is possible, but maybe after the two weeks I will be a faint memory. I miss him though and that will never change for me.

Things with Brad are going swimmingly. We have enjoyed many moments of joy together this summer. I especially liked our camper van date where we looked at the moon over the ocean and drank coffee I made in the van. Candles everywhere and some lovely bonding time.

It turns out he is very similar to me in many ways and this I find amusing and puzzling. I can see more clearly how people have to deal with me would need to process how I am. He is organized, forthcoming with thoughts and questions, likes to have a plan before doing something, considers details and people involved in everything he does. Is selfless in his interactions with others yet has a need for a clear procedure in activities and in dealing with issues. I swear we could organize the Olympics in our home town easily! :p

The inclusivity of Brad's wife in our relationship I find to be a lovely change to what I have had in my life thus far. I am thrilled to bits that she is loving, caring, expresses her feelings and thoughts to me with a concern that makes me realize that she wants what is best for herself, but also to make sure that in advocating for herself that she doesn't leave out that Brad and I also have needs and requests of our own that might not include her. I am sure, at this point, that I can go to her about anything and it is making me think that I can relax into what is possible with them rather than feel like an outsider that is no more than a fun time every now and then.

Brad and his wife, along with their boy, are becoming close to me and I feel included in their lives. That I would be missed if I weren't there. I feel as if I am cherished and appreciated as an added addition to their family. It makes me feel safe and confident about the future. It makes me want to find ways to give to them and to nurture what we have. I find myself wanting them to help nurture what they have together and support both of them in their new poly life.

Brad is also becoming part of my life, although I don't include him in my life as much as they have included me in theirs. I think that could take some time as there is a lack of trust now due to the pain of my last break up with Leo for everyone in my family. I am not so willing to rush into anything that involves my other loves as I was before. They aren't as quick to jump in either.

In a few weeks we are going camping together Brad, his family and I. Derby may come out to visit and LB will be with me for a night with his friend. Brad's boy will be there, but other than that, Brad has his two ladies with him all to himself all cozy and working together as a team. :) It makes me very happy that he can have that. I know something of what it feels like to be surrounded by people who love you :)

[redpepper]

I'm pooped out. Really. Ha! I'm going full throttle in so many areas of life. Most of which I can't talk about here. Sigh... Here goes. Will try and write a bit because it always helps.

I had a fantastic day yesterday. I went to a electronic music festival with my husband of 11 years this weekend. The night before we celebrated by going out for dinner. Later I spent the night in my own bed with Mono as a guest. He complained that I wasn't sleeping with my husband on our anniversary. Seriously, it makes no difference any more who spends time when and on what occasion, yet he clings to our old mono ways. Well, his mono ways. PN and I have never been regular in our marriage. Why start on our 11th anniversary. It was a lot to even go out for a meal! The flowers and card blew me away, lol! :D I'm blowing PN away tonight with a toast at dinner with my parents a card and a present. The parents love to hear we are still going strong and doing fine. ;)

So back to the festival... PN, LB and I wandered down to meet up with Brad, his wife and boy. LB spent the whole time quietly sitting amongst the dancers and crazy costumes. He was overwhelmed I think, but I was also wondering if he has noticed that we spend a lot of time with Brad and his family.

Brad's boy is 4 and LB is 9. LB asked if he is suppose to look after him at one point. I explained he didn't have to do anything he didn't want to but I asked that he at least be polite to the boy. I wonder how much he misses Leo's kids, his friends of three years and whether he is processing the loss of them. I suspect that PN and Mono are also processing that too as they have been weary of inviting new people into our lives. So far I have left it alone and continue to explore my new relationship and the depth it could have.

Brad and his wife have invited me in and opened their hearts almost entirely it seems. Such as it goes when new to poly. Open to everything is how it rolls. I am flattered and honoured and also apprehensive myself. It seems so delicate to be so open now. So trusting. I don't want to be hurt, I don't want my loves to be hurt, I don't want to hurt them and I don't want, most of all, my boy LB to have to mourn any loss on my part. Its part of life, but its taken its toll on me this last year knowing I had something to do with causing it.

Brad's family is going through a lot of emotional turmoil at the moment in regards to other relationships going on in their lives. It reminds me of what my life was like about four or five years ago. Its tiring, makes me impatient and due to those involved, causes me a great deal of stress and anxiety. Its to do with Leo's wife.

This community is way to small sometimes for me who has been told by someone in their past that they never want to see me again. Its really impossible to NOT be in someones life in some way when you are in a community of poly people. Now I have found that my metamour is possibly interested in a woman that is also connected to this same person and I am again stressed and anxious about what might come and how to make myself scarce.

It came to a head for me last weekend when there was a swingers party put on by some friends of mine that a group of my friends were going to including my gf and her husband. I don't swing at all but it was a social gathering with some cock sucking etc. as part of the entertainment. Whatever, I know where I stand on all that and that is good enough for me. I purposely didn't go so that Leo's wife didn't want me in her life didn't have to see me. I am trying to be repsectful of her space in the community, but I find myself unable to be when it pushes my boundries. I did that for a lot of my relationship with her husband and I got resentful that night of how much I am honouring her request for me to not be in her life. I have come to the conclusion that if she has a problem she can make some choices too to not be in mine. For some reason I didn't think of that before now. I've decided to let it go and just do whatever suits me. See if that ends my anxiety.

Some input on where she is at and where Leo is at would be welcome at this point as time changes things and they might not care as much as I think they do. Although I've posted this now and part of their beef with me is that I write this blog with them in it. As if everyone knows who they are. I've been on the verge of just contacting them and finding out where they are at actually. If it weren't for the situation between them and Brad's family I likely would of by now. Part of me thinks its them that should reach out. After all it was them that said some nasty stuff to me.

Ken texted me this week a day before the agreed upon end of the week. He asked how I was and told me he missed me. He asked to call sometime but has made no attempt. I wonder if its because I explained to him again what it would take to be able to spend time together again. Again I explained that he needed to talk to his new mono gf about what she would like to have with him in terms of a relationship. If she says she is okay with him loving others but not being romanticly involved, perhaps we can resume our friendship. If she freaks on that idea then I will say "merry meet, merry part and merry meet again" and let it go until another time. I have three days of work with her coming up this week and I can feel the stress rising because of it. She's been off for a little over a week and will be off again for another chunk of time after. Having the space to breath and let time work stuff out has really helped.

[redpepper]

Busy fall coming up... Starting a burlesque troupe after almost two years of performing, choir starting up again with the promise of more solo parts, the poly women's group I facilitate is starting up again after a summer off (we have our big summer party this Friday), poly pub night continues monthly, Mono's lady friend comes home and we shall see where that situation is for him, my co-worker is back from holidays, and a new relationship to make room for more than ever. :) so excited. And so busy.

Deciding to let go of a bunch of stuff that keeps me from being free in my mind. Its liberating and the more I practice the better I get. I care less and less about what others are doing and more and more about what I can do in life. I have made some good choices in who I spend my time with and have much to be thankful for today.

[redpepper]

I realised tonight that its pain as much as stress and anxiety that keeps haunting me. Its hard enough to hear about what Leo is doing and then to somehow remain seperate when my metamour is struggling? Sigh... Have to be a big girl now and stay away as well as be supportive somehow.

Thing is its nothing that anyone is doing that makes it hard for me. Leo's wife is just living her life, as is my metamour. Its their common bf that is a newb and is struggling to handle the situation they are in with integrity and consideration for all. I wish he'd get some help. He's failing miserably in many ways I think and as a woman that successfully balances four relationships I can see his pit falls. He'll learn I guess and like those before him, break some hearts along the way.

I realised that I really have no hope of fully making up with Leo at this point in light of the situation I'm in... :( I just want some peace with it ya know? An agreement that what's done is done, its water under the bridge and past. I won't be getting that soon.

I did reach out to Leo's wifes ex however and say hi. They aren't together any more so I took it upon myself to create space to talk if he wants to. It was largely because I met him for coffee one day that my break up with Leo was created. At least I have patched that up in time for the possibility of her ex being in my life in some way. I now won't have to avoid him too.

Little by little it will work out. I hope.

[redpepper]

I read back what I wrote last night to see if my midnight rambling would be helpful. I am so glad to not be new to this poly thing any more. I knew that in deciding to date a newbie I would spend some time dealing with newbie stuff. I get why seasoned poly people don't date newbies... But, I love him and his wife and I would have it no other way. Here I am and I intend to see it all through.

This morning I got a very apologetic and sweet email from Brad's wife. I can handle just about anything if I know people are aknowledging my feelings and are aware of what I am going through. I really appreciated that she understood that this whole thing might be hurtful to me and that is really all I needed to find a place in myself to be extra supportive.

I feel for her, she's been pushed to the edge by this man in her life and expected to blow off her feelings. He doesn't operate like she does and doesn't get why she is so hurt. Mind you, I don't know how much she has told him of how hurt she is.

I don't know his wife, but perhaps she is able to handle more than Brad's wife. Maybe he doesn't get that not everyone can? I admire Brad's wife's depth of feeling and concern. She hasn't been thoughtless in her pain. She has thought of how Leo's wife might feel and her bf and wishes she could walk out of her feelings. Thing is he has neglected to tell her about sexual experiences he's had with their friends, about plans he has made without her and has struggled to keep her in mind through some major decision making.

To me it looks as if he doesn't care about her as much as he says he does. His actions don't reflect that to me anyway. It looks more like he is working from a place of his own feelings on everything than that of others. It seems selfish to me, but I know I am only getting one side of the story.

If there is one thing I have learned being the gf and wife of many its that I need to weigh up every ones feelings and my own, decide on a course of action that considers everyones feelings and then wade into it very slowly, looking for pitfalls all the way. I find it better to wade in more slowly than any of my loves think is necessary because something seems to come up every time.

[redpepper]

Well, it seems to be going okay that my co-worker is back. She doesn't appear to have any clue as to what kind of loss I feel and that's perfect for me. I feel the loss of Leo over again and of Ken. Double whammy these days but I am managing.

This past weekend I spent part of it on the island that my parents have a house on. The very one I talked about back in 2009 that they were about to build. The spend a lot of time their and invited all of us to visit this past weekend.

I made a nice dinne. My parents pulled the table out onto the deck and set it up with wine glasses and nice linen. I wanted to make a toast to PN and give him a gift for our anniversary.

When we had finished eating I pulled out a little box and a card for him. In the box was a music box that played "imagine" by John Lenon. The words fit how PN thinks and his hope for the world is expressed in those words. I raised my glass to our 11 year marriaged and shed some tears as I said to him and all those around the table that "I might share my heart with many but I married the right man."

It was a loving shared moment. We talked about our wedding day and LB asked questions. Mono sat back and looked content with the event. My parents loved hearing my heart felt toast and everyone was jolly :)

[nycindie]

Awww, RP, your celebration sounds so beautiful. Happy Anniversary!

[JaneQSmythe]

"I might share my heart with many but I married the right man."

This.

Each year my bond with MrS gets deeper and stronger. We love and like each other more with each passing year. People may question how poly and marriage can be compatible; my marriage may be different than what many people envision marriage to be...but my journey has been immeasurably enriched by sharing it with this particular man. Lucky girl!

Happy Anniversary RP and PN!

JaneQ

[redpepper]

Thanks :)

[redpepper]

Considering my previous role as secondary today... Stuff to do with my expectation of more consideration than it was considered my due. I was a secondary in every sense of the word. Disposable and not the same value as a wife and anyone who came before me. I was expected to not ask to be considered, just be entertaining until the novelty wears off or I become a pain in the ass.

Sigh :(

Thankfully my new BF does not consider me this way and we are working towards a better understanding of "secondary." He's awesome and we are a good match in terms of ethics.

[redpepper]

Mono goes on a four day bike trip starting today. He takes the 3pm ferry off of our island and then hits the main land and mountains for a glorious weekend ride with his buddies. He plans to not wash or shave for the whole trip. Last night he shave up (he shaves just about everything) we had a shower and had an early night of closeness.

My skin smells like him as I crawl out of bed for another work day this morning. I miss him already. :(

[redpepper]

I had a really nice date with Brad today. We went to the art gallery. It was probably the coolest place in town today. I enjoyed their air conditioning. We don't generally use air conditioning here as it never gets too hot or cold. Today however was 30 degrees celsius. Ya, I know, not as hot as elsewhere, but when you haven't had that in over a year it felt hot!

The artist we saw was William Kuralek. One of my favorites from my childhood as he was a Canadian pioneer and folk story teller with his paintings. Not to mention he painted in a near by city to where I grew up. My brother and I poured over a book my parents had when we were teens. I talked about him with Brad as we went from painting to painting and was so thrilled that he was interested. The library has opening time that aren't good for anyone else but him and I so I was glad that at least one of my loves could come with me. It was the third time I had been :o

Brad and I have been planning out camping trip for the weekend together with his wife and its coming together nicely. We have a treasure hunt planned, hot dog stick making and tye dying. LB is bringing his best friend and they are both bringing their bikes so all in all it will be a really fun time.

I have a little bit of apprehension about meeting Brad's wife's boyfriend who also dates Leo's wife however. I am concerned that what he has heard about me will sway him to his opinion of me before even getting there. Likely he won't talk to me much anyway, but it still concerns me a bit. It'll be fine I'm sure. I planned the treasure hunt for then so hopefully an activity will bring everyone together... including the three 9 year old boys that will be there as LB, his best friend and this man's boy, are all 9.

I talked with Ken on the phone this week and basically we said our good byes. He told me he now understands why I backed out of our friendship so that he could discover all he could with my co-worker. He said I was right, she is very monogamous and that she would feel very threatened with me in his life as his feelings for me have not and will not change. He can understand that that would make both of our work lives difficult and that it makes sense to just not go there. He has decided that his new girlfriend is worth the effort at this point and that I can be put on a back burner in terms or a friendship. I told him I wouldn't be part of their relationship as a go between as I won't be talking about either of them to the other. I will text him when I feel like it and he can do the same, but that is now the extent of our relationship. Sigh... :(

Its bitter sweet. I am happy for them, but sad and miss him also. Its not the same sad as missing Brad when I don't see him for a week (our usual), but the kind of missing that is hopeless. I know that feeling far too well this year and it leaves a hurt in my throat.

I am beginning to spend time with horses again. The friend who's wedding I went to in Vegas with my ex wife invited me to come and help her muck the horses at the stables she rides at. She talked to the owner and he is in agreement that he would be okay with me riding them so long as she is with me for the first times.

It makes me so happy I have cried about it. I never thought I would be on a horse again without someone leading me down a path holding the reins. I used to show jump when I was a child and was really good at it. It was one of the few activities I loved as a child actually. I was put in many different after school activities and that was the only one that stuck. I spent every weekend with my co-owned horse "Lexington." The experience of mucking the horses and bringing them in for the night as brought back a ton of good memories. :)

Mono's crush came back yesterday. I have gone into protect mode with him a little. Asking him questions like when he is going to see her. Has she started texting him yet. Is he excited that she's back... reminding him of various things he said to me about her and asking about those.... All testing, of course, to see where he is at. He has told me not to worry. He thinks its unlikely that he will text her anymore and likely won't be going out for coffee with her and that he has no intension of starting anything up with her again. I reminded him that he said that he is used to saying good-bye to people and picking up where he left off as soon as he sees them again. I expect that he will do the same with her. He didn't have anything to say about that, so now I wait until he comes back from his trip and a time when he sees her again. I wonder how to handle it and do my best to just not think too much. I hope if I don't think I will ease nicely into them being able to be friends without too much need for working on my issues. Ha! Fat chance. Bottom line is that I don't want him to see her and don't want to deal with it at all. Really, quite frankly, I want him all to myself as promised and that is that. I am such a child. :rolleyes: I realize it makes no sense... so I fight those feelings and will just have to deal with it if need be.

[Anneintherain]

Please don't waste energy stressing about what the boyfriend will think (easier said than done huh?) I always get the impression women are more gossipy than men, be it to warn or put down or talk about each others love lives. Men usually strike me as more interested in making their own observations and decisions about a person, at least I've watched the ones I'm close to hear all sorts of things about romantic interests, and not care about anything other than the interaction they have with the person themselves.

It has been awhile now since you and Leo broke up, I don't remember ever getting the impression that you did, or thought you did, something wrong. Not sure what conclusions you came to when you went over this whole thread for introspection like you said you were going to do. I don't know if you think Leo & and/or his wife are saying things that ring true for you or just spouting BS. I was trying to look over the past to try to brush up on what happened, and I ran into some stuff you wrote in January about her going out with somebody you'd been talking to then having sex with them quickly (not 100% sure if this was the guy Leo broke up with you over).

I got the idea that you felt in a bit of a competition with her, and of course at that time were frustrated by your agreements to not be sexual with him, and then you found out she was not OK with you and Leo having sex. I wonder if you still feel in competition with her in some way, maybe just as a poly person. Maybe you are feeling upset you didn't do things differently/change agreements with Mono then and there, and it is coloring how you see things. I can tell that you are really uncomfortable hanging out in similar social circles but I'm not clear on how much of that is just your perception of the situation.

You posted a lot at that time before you broke up about how seeing Leo was stressful, I'm not clear if it was just the non sexual bf thing, you are clear that you two agreed you had different love languages, desires, and so on for a relationship. I just want to say I hate seeing that you are still being affected by it over 6 months later, when at the time it always seemed like you were trying to be clear and honest and loving. Maybe you should reread your posts in February about how you know you didn't do anything wrong?

Sigh anyway, I just don't like you still being tortured by this, maybe its a west coast female support thing? I know the whole issue is wrapped up in a confusing tangle with Leo and the woman Mono was talking with coming back, and new stuff with Brad and the horrible high school feeling of "that girl is talking shit about me and I don't know whats being said and I feel kinda paranoid every time I meet somebody new who might think badly of me". I wish I had a good suggestion, but I'd just say if you have a counselor, ask for some, or pick up your favorite book that reminds you that you're awesome.

[redpepper]

Anneintherain- thanks for writing. :)

For the record I was lead to believe she jumped into a sexual relationship with both feet and yes that was hard for me due to the status of my own relationship with her husband. It made me angry and resentful. Not towards her, but about my own situation and it felt unfair. That has since been resolved between Mono and I and my new relationship with Brad includes sex.

I talk to the man she was with often now. This is a new man I will meet on Saturday. The man she was with back then is the husband of Derby's love interest now. I am glad to create some water under that bridge now as it makes socializing a lot easier.

Anyway, we never talk about what happened for him back in January, so I don't know what happened there. I don't care to know. Its nothing to do with me and unless he brings it all up for some particular reason there is no need to. I figure that if there is a direct reason to talk it out then its worth hashing out details, but if there is no direct reason then its his story to tell. He knows mine already.

I told him way back that I was not going to pursue a friendship with him until he and Leo's wife were not together any more. They aren't now I am told. Back then I had heard that she said she would rather not have him in her life if it meant I would be in her life more. I took that very seriously and have done everything I can to not be. This city is small though and its impossible, so I've given up at this point. It was making me anxious and resentful to be constantly concerned for her well being. It just seemed ridiculous and futile for me to be that considerate of her feelings. If in fact she still feels that way. I don't even know.

As an aside: its interesting to me that I have also backed out of Ken's life with the same kind of idea... That of allowing Ken and my co-workers relationship to be Redpepper free so as to allow their relationship to flourish. Just put that together actually. Need to think more on that.

This is a hot topic in my life right now as Ken's ex has been talking to various people in my community. Its a very sensitive area for me in general for various reasons that I think I've wrote about in this blog somewhere. In a nut shell I was taken to court once by a woman who turned out to have borderline personality disorder and although the case fell through for her it scared me greatly. I miscarried at three and a half monthes as a result (I think). Very stressful.

Ken's ex has the same diagnosis as the woman who took me to court. I've had therapy, yet I continue to search for that place in me that doesn't give a shit what people think. I am actually closer than it reads here :D all of this past year has helped with that. Instead of burying the experience I have embraced it with open arms and have walked through it. This weekend will be a moment of doing that again, but I am strong and I think it will mostly be interesting than painful.

Its actually less of a deal to me than comes across here. Mostly I'm excited about meeting my bf's wife's bf. Ha! Catch that? Her and I have talked a lot about their situation and it will be nice to put a face to the words.

[redpepper]

I feel a bit out of control right now and am hoping that by processing here I will get my ducks in a row.

Met Brad's wife's bf who is also seeing Leo's wife while camping with Brad this weekend. Apparently they are just friends though, but who knows what is going on. Anyway, he was grascious enough to include me in their conversations and talked mostly to Brad and I at first. We talked about movie mostly.

I met his kids and wife too. The boy asked me several times why my boy, LB, wasn't there as he has been expecting to meet him. Unfortunately the treasure hunt I had planned was not going to work as LB and his best friend had to leave before they got there. I asked if they would be interested in doing it at another time and they seemed to be open to that.

Later I talked to the wife of the couple and we had a long chat about poly dynamics and the importance of pacing, consideration of everyone involved, not taking on other peoples issues yet respecting that they have them etc. They are all very new and she pointed this out several times. The communication thing seems to of had its doors opened wide for all of them. It was exciting to see how excited she was. She seemed to think that at some point there would be some settling and we laughed that after 13 years (?) Of doing this, the settling is very short lived.

We made them a fantastic salmon dinner and all were quite settled and relaxed by the time they left. I was so nervous ahead of time. Brad held me as I cried in fear of what they might think of me. I was out of my element without the support of Mono, Derby and PN. I rely on them to turn to, but found that Brad was there for me. It was a moving and special moment for us. One of many this weekend.

Back to work and to the return of my co-worker. Its going pretty well. She is consumed with several things in her life and I think she thinks I made a choice between Brad and Ken. I didn't, as I don't pick favourites as a rule, but if she is happy with that, then I will be too. We don't talk about Ken or our relationship lives at all. I don't know if that will ever change, but for now at least we are able to work together. My ultimate goal.

Mono came back from his trip and hasn't been enitrely present. I haven't heard much from him other than his retirement stress. He commented on the lack of talking about anything deep for four days and I took that to mean that I should not talk about stuff. So I haven't. I don't do well with that, but I don't know what else to do.

There has been little opportunity to talk anyway, but really I don't think he wants to get into anything major and wishes I would go elsewhere for that. I told him I just want to be near him and that is all. If we spend dates having sex and just sitting together, that would be fine.

Mono's crush interest is back and posting all over his fb again. I heard her voice on the phone too. I don't know if she is also texting, but her presence is very "there." I asked him for reasurance once and he has given it to me in the form of blowing off any kind of connection with her. I am trying to trust that as I owe it to him to believe that, but its hard. He doesn't tell me anything and when I ask I get so much information on what they talk about that I am blown away after at how much contact they have. Or I percieve they have. I just keep breathing.

Derby is on holiday. I meet her at polycamp in NW Washington this next weekend. I can't wait to see her. It sounds like she is having a fabulous time traveling with her family. She needed the break.

I decided to do a burlesque number at camp. I'm more nervous that ever. Something about it is different and more intimate. I have two shows coming up after it that have got me right back into the swing of it.

PN has been emailing back and forth to an ex of his that I once new on the forum. Stories of her are on this blog from way back in the summer of 2010. I'm happy for him. I don't know if it is going anywhere, but I am happy they are enjoying each others company again.

LB did really well camping without his dad and best buddy. He had his best friend there though and the two of them were a pleasure to be with. They played a little with Brad's boy who is five years younger than they are. I got a bit of child free time for half the weekend as PN came and got the boys on Saturday afternoon. We all went for a hike to a nearby falls, had a snack and they headed home.

Tonight is poly pub night and Brad and PN are coming with me. The evening divided between the two. Tomorrow I am seeing a movie at a drive in with Brad and Mono. The next day I am visiting with my ex wife who is in town and packing for camp. This weekend I will be off line for three days... Sweet bliss with three of my loves at poly camp. "! Is coming too. I will be wishing Brad was there and Ken too as he originally was going to go. Still, I need the break and it will be super fun.

[redpepper]

Mono and I had a blow out yesterday. He came back from his trip straight into seeing his friend that he had/has a crush on and hasn't done any of the things I requested. I called him on it yesterday and it ended in a fight.

I don't do well with vague responses to questions and that's what I got from him. I can't figure out if its just not a big deal to him or if he is hiding something. Maybe he is simply overwhelmed. He won't say either way how he is feeling about anything and hasn't given me any indication that what I ask is true or false. Questions like, "are you going to see her" are answered with laughs and word that avoid what I am asking. Frustrating.

I suspected that he just isn't thinking about it at all so I asked after awhile of yelling and he said he doesn't actually. For some reason this set me off more than ever. I reminded him that I had asked for reassurance from him where she is concerned. When she came home she was immediately writing on his fb wall, and around in his life, everything that was left back when she left came right back for me. It was picked right up again.

I asked that he reassure me when she came back and would of at least liked to of been asked how I am doing with her return or given some indication that my place in his life is solid. What with his distraction over retiring soon I am often left feeling ignored and disconnected. I take it on as her being his focus.

I don't think he gets why I feel this way. To me he was dishonest and hasn't worked back my trust. I'm sorry that it takes time and effort and that he would prefer I just get over it, but I'm afraid I am not able to without his help. He doesn't seem to want to give me any so now I must decide how to handle it.

I think at this point my choices are limited. I am going to work on being more approachable so that he feels he can talk to me. I don't really know how to do that. Half of my concerns would not of built if he had done what I asked of him so now I have to find reassurance elsewhere.

I can see that I just have to drop it and carry on with other distractions. I could pick any number of things to do that but all of them lead me to being further and further from my already tenuous connection to him. We haven't had a moment to reconnect since he got back and I don't see that coming. It scares me. Still, I guess I just have to trust in the universe that this is just how it is and that everything will play out as it will.

Ideally, in time, my goal is to be perfectly fine with his wanting to spend time with her. Crossing fingers that I can do that as right now I don't see how I will ever be okay. I told Mono that and I hope that I won't feel that way forever.

[redpepper]

When I wrote this morning I was all ready to give up. I explained to Mono that what he is going through right now with his retiring from 21 yerars of service in the Navy is akin to him being in quick sand or jumping into a black hole. His crush on the woman is part of it.

I feel sometimes that I am holding his feet as he continues to plunge head first into his own self sabotage because of his military career ending. Sometimes I hold on and have others helping me by supporting me, sometimes he is working on pulling himself out too and sometimes I am not able to hold on and think I should let him go. This morning I was in the letting him go space.

I asked that Mono just do the bare minimum to keep me from throwing in the towel. All I need is a few words everyday or a touch to let me know that he is still with me. I will fight for what we have created if I know he is with me and not ready to leave all we have created.

There is more at stake than just he and I and I will fight for LB and PN's sake also. We have a good thing going all of us and I am not going to let him destroy it with out a fight. I will continue to tell him that he has a responsibility to us, that he will get through this, we will be here all the way and will be here when he leaves his job. We have not changed and he has us to anchor to.

I talked to PN and Brad about it after and asked that they please be patient with me for the next few monthes. I will need help to hold our family together and they can help by listening to me and letting me go to Mono when its necessary. They both agreed to do that. I haven't talked to Derby yet, but told her to read here hoping that at least it will start that conversation.

I feel very clear right now that this is not about his crush. Its a symptom of a larger issue to me at this point. I don't think I had fully felt that before today when the relationship of our onion was peeled and he said he had to think about more than just that. He said that was a part of it all but not the whole and I got it today. Now I have something to sink my teeth into and work towards. I feel strong again and am going to give him everything I have, ... Because I love him more than ever.

[Arrowbound]

Wishing all of you the best as y'all work through this together. What a difference time to cool down and subsequent thought and revelation makes. Good for you Red, for taking advantage of your support system as things progress.

[AnnabelMore]

Thinking of you both, and believing you can work through it!

[redpepper]

Thanks to both of you :) I am sure we can too.

Off to Poly Camp tomorrow. Leaving you with one mod. Be nice to him, LOL. He has my cell to call if anything comes up... :)

See you monday.

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Mono, LB, Brad and his wife and boy went to a drive in movie last night. What a fun time. Mono, LB and I wandered around waiting for the movie to start before hand and enjoyed laughing and being together. There was a load off it felt like and we just relaxed. Brad and family meet up with us shortly before the movie started and the boys played a bit together. The adults and kids all sat around for a bit and chatted and joked. We all had a relaxed and fun time. It was very light hearted and just fun. We needed that. :)

Yesterday I went to pick up the ticket for the movie from Brad's wife's bf. He wasn't able to go to the movie. He was the one that I was so fearful to meet last weekend at the camp site. We talked for a bit and he told me of his child's accident among other things and I told him of my childhood growing up with drive in movies. Movies where we had to bring the aluminum speaker into the car and our hands always got dirty. I remember eating popcorn after with dirty hands. We also had to light mosquito coils and tape screening to the windows after everyone was in. We were in big trouble if anyone had to go to the bathroom, which of course I always did, lol. Fun times.

After a chat for a time about life and other things going on I told him that I had been nervous to meet him due to his relationship with Leo's wife. He listened intently as I told him how I appreciated that he had taken me at face value and had been inviting and inclusive of me in the conversation with their group. He said that the topic of me had been off limits and that he was happy to meet me.

While I appreciate that there has been a cone of silence on the topic I was actually a bit confused. I don't generally go by that option, but in this case appreciated it and understand why it wouldn't be necessary. It would of been gossip anyway rather than informative. Its not really something that needs discussion on their end as I am not dating him and really he is far removed so I can see why.

For me it has been a matter of fear and pain and getting through that... I told him that I had been fearful because there was some pain there still for me and he said he appreciated knowing that. It feels done to me now that I have said that and there is no need to bring it up again.

I am looking forward to spending time with him and his family if I should be invited now without the weight of the past on my shoulders. Slowly it lifts in terms of others, and becomes one solitary weight of not being lifted from them. Yay, communication! I think he liked knowing he did something that made someone else feel comfortable too. Bonus' all around. :p

[redpepper]

Back from camp and back to work today. I will wait to write about it though as some stuff is emotionally raw still. Still in the processing stage. All in all a good time.

Met some fun people, learned some stuff about my self in context to the community at large and came home pondering... Yesterday I had a long day of gardening and cleaning up camping equipment. Lots of time to ponder. Now I have a very neat and tidy garden and clean camping equipment.

LB leaves for Toronto today on a flight with my parents. I'm thinking mostly of that. My 9 year old is being a brave big boy who will be smothered by my extended families friends. I gave him all the advice I could think of, packed his bag and away he goes. Does that feeling of missing your arm ever go away as a parent when ones kid is not close and accessible?

Date with Brad tonight. Its been a week of not seeing each other which included a few days of no contact at all. I am so looking forward to catching up.

[Arrowbound]

LB leaves for Toronto today on a flight with my parents. I'm thinking mostly of that. My 9 year old is being a brave big boy who will be smothered by my extended families friends. I gave him all the advice I could think of, packed his bag and away he goes. Does that feeling of missing your arm ever go away as a parent when ones kid is not close and accessible?

Sounds like fun!! I imagine he'll be enjoying himself, there's lots to do in TO. And no, that feeling never goes away, rofl. I've sent my wee one with family a few times and every single time the house gets quiet and I have to try to find other things to do.

[SNeacail]

Does that feeling of missing your arm ever go away as a parent when ones kid is not close and accessible?

It lessens each time, but never truly goes away. One adult goes away, people barely notice, one kids goes away and the house gets eerily quite.

[redpepper]

It lessens each time, but never truly goes away. One adult goes away, people barely notice, one kids goes away and the house gets eerily quite.Oh my, so true. We are tripping over the quiet around here.... and the lack of things to do for him. No lunches to make, no scheduled dinner, no massive amounts of laundry, no deciding who stays home with the boy, no endless prompts to get out the door for the day.

He has called three times so far in less than 24 hours. This afternoon he called to say he was standing on the glass floor of the CN tower looking down while he ate his piece of cheese pizza. He was so excited each time he called.

Its a trip of a life time to go and do something like that with grand parents. To think it was not that long ago that I was telling my mum that she had better work on her approach and judgment of my lifestyle or she wouldn't see him again. Worth every bit of the work with her for her to take him there and for me to hear his voice so happy and excited on the phone.

[redpepper]

Had a lovely date night with Brad last night. We have gotten attached at this point and there is really no backing out without a lot of pain. I fear that a little as I watch the last ditch effort to "make sure" fade into the back ground. I'm all in now.

I took a workshop at poly camp on "breaking up." There is no sign of anything ending in my relationships as they are now, but I thought it might help my grieving process and help me understand why I still feel sad about Leo.

What I learned really helped me.

I learned that to break up with someone is to honour them as I did during the high times of our relationship. It should never get to the point where resentment builds that you are with someone. Something that goes on too long breeds distain and resentment.

I learned that to honour someone; that is to love them for who they are regardless of differences, means being truthful when things aren't working to the point of needing the relationship to end. It also means being kind in words and actions without sacrificing what my needs are to reach closure, but to be considerate of the persons feelings without owning them and taking them on. Lastly it means being helpful. If someone has been a shmuck, then they need to know that in the most kind way of saying it as possible. Its an art form to break up with someone and from what I learned it takes time and is a process, just like getting together in the first place. That process doesn't end with goodbye, it can happen, and should happen together if at all possible.

I intend, if ever I break up with someone again, to hold them close, love them with all my heart, listen to them cry and cry with them, allow them to go through the grief process of denial, bargaining, sadness and anger with my being present and available every step of the way. It won't be easy, but I now feel as if I have some confidence to know when to let go and how to do that with the best possible out come.

When my marriage ended with my wife we went through a beautiful process like the one above. I intend to use that as a landmark in the future on what worked for me and hope that I can offer up everything I have learned to any other partner I have in the future.

[Mohegan]

Hey RP I just wanted to let you know that as much as you miss LB he is creating cherished memories. The summer before my last year in high school my grandparents took me, my brother and our two cousins on a grandparents bus trip. We were far older than the other kids, all of us being teenagers and them being about LB's age. But there was no doubt that memories were made. It was a fantastic week of time with family that we hadn't had in a very long time. Teenagers get so lost in teenagerdom that we forget to make memories. That fall my grandfather passed away unexpectedly and we all four said how grateful we were for that trip.

I'm so glad you worked things out with you mother so that LB can have these memories, and so that you can as well.


Alright, back to catching up on all I missed while I was away.

[redpepper]

Thanks Mohegan :) nice to see you here again!

[redpepper]

I read someone's post on a fb group today that they were dumping the term poly and going with open/fluid marriage instead. It reminded me of a time when I too did the same thing. The term"poly" got so weighted for me I needed to step away from it, see it as an umbrella term and then pick and chose what worked from what I saw. It was a process of making it my own. Well, I own it now I guess. I found my sub-community. I found people that are poly yet have other things in common with me besides that. Finally somewhere to belong. :)

[redpepper]

I'm at my parents house on the island this weekend spending some last moments of summer with Mono. He says hi to anyone who cares to hear hi by the way. ;) He's making coffee downstairs below the loft bedroom we gravitate to when we are here.

PN is home and having a good time with his friends. Two female friends. He's light hearted and happily texting us and putting pictures on fb joking around. He loves his alone time with us away.

LB is still in Toronto, having been to the CN tower, Niagara falls, the zoo and today they go to the science center. He's been having a great time. Its hotter there than he is used to though and he calls every night exhausted.

Derby is on the last day of her epic camping trip as she calls it. I haven't heard tons from her, but did here that her husband is away for work again and that she has her parents coming the moment she gets back. She will be sad her trip is over and life comes flooding back I think.

Brad is camping with his family. The jokes between him, his wife, Mono, and I went on all last night via text. Mono likes to tease him. Its nice to see him unthreatened and proud of his position in my life. Unwavering and sure of himself. That is how I like to see him. A break from his struggles with retiring is welcome this weekend.

I decided to leave to issue of Mono's female friend alone. I don't talk about her and he doesn't either. He has realised how one can love another while loving their partner and that seems to be enough for him. He has told me there is nothing to pursue there and I decided to trust that.

I texted both Leo and Ken this week to tell them I miss them. Fuck it, why hold on to my envy of them spending time with others when really I just miss them. I was inspired first by telling Ken that. I felt good releasing that feeling and sharing it. It was out there. I admitted it and felt better.

I texted Leo next hoping for the same result and got it. He didn't respond but I don't need a response to feel better. I don't need there to be some kind of huge movement of change from them. Its enough that they know. The movement of change has come from within some how. I'm not sure how yet, other than I feel like I have kept myself from feeling badly.

Ken wrote back right away and said he hopes we can spend time together as he misses me to. He and his gf are off for the weekend too. My relationship with my co-worker, his gf has changed somehow. We seem to have some kind of understanding of one another that wasn't there before. I'm not sure what that is, but its not a negative thing. We don't speak much more than we used to, but when we do its with a closeness that we haven't had before.

Mono and I are off to enjoy the island today. Fall is here it seems. The sun is low, the grass and forests are dry, eager for a winter of rain, the locals are buzzing with the last of the tourists on the island. Tonight we are going to a local party at a pub restaurant that closes for the season tonight. Should be fun.

[Arrowbound]

Hi Mono! :) *waves*

Smiling about all the fun LB is having in my hometown. I miss it so. I'm happy y'all are connecting on your own, separate experiences and all that.

When everyone gets back together I'm sure the stories will be endless.

[redpepper]

Last night I noticed Mono's lady friend and him were messaging on fb. Trying to follow my own agreement with myself that I wouldn't bring it up or go to that place of feeling threatened and fearful of his cheating on me or leaving me, I left it alone.

What I couldn't do is change how it affected me so I remained quiet and worked on it within myself. In time he asked what was up and asked if I had seen that she was writing to him. Its was the first time he had asked me to engage in a conversation with him about her. Usually its me who brings it up in a fit of feeling destraught.

I said I had seen her face on his tablet screen and that I was working on not reacting negatively. He held me close and told me she had messaged him to tell him about a song she liked. He said that everything was back to normal between them. I asked what that meant and he said it meant that the friendship they had was as it used to be. Just friendship. He said that he isn't going to leave me, that I don't need to worry, he loves me and has no reason to be with anyone else.

It was the first time he reassured me without my asking. I immediately felt reassured and believed him. I asked him today if he noticed the difference in how we related to one another because of his reassurance. He said he did. I told him I hoped he would reassure me more often now as it just works better for both of us if he tells me honestly how he feels in the moment. It works to do as I request in regards to getting my needs met.

I am so thankful to of made this new turn around with him. I feel it might be the dawn of some new headway for our relationship. I feel like I am breathing fresh air.

[redpepper]

Hi Mono! :) *waves*

Smiling about all the fun LB is having in my hometown. I miss it so. I'm happy y'all are connecting on your own, separate experiences and all that.

When everyone gets back together I'm sure the stories will be endless.
Off to meet up with LB and PN now. :) Mono says hi. :)

[lovefromgirl]

You know, this is causing me to think hard about the kind of agreement I would make with a poly-friendly mono man -- to wit, there would have to be an agreement not to blindside me with "Hey, she's shinier; I'm leaving you!" Because I know mono is mono and might prefer a mono partner, but a relationship is a relationship no matter the orientations of the people involved. People need to do right by each other, as Mono's doing right by you by checking in. <3

[redpepper]

there would have to be an agreement not to blindside me with "Hey, she's shinier; I'm leaving you!" Because I know mono is mono and might prefer a mono partner
This has been my issue in his crush/infatuation with this woman. Mono schooled me well in believing that if he turned his glance elsewhere it would mean the end of what we have. He said he would still be in my life, but as a friend. That was not okay with me and I always feared he would leave me for someone more suitable. Someone mono minded. He's mono, that's how it works.

He always said that what we have is perfect for him. I don't require huge amounts of his time, I leave him to his own devices as I have my own life going on with others and require a large amount for independence. I was challenged when she came into the picture. Especially as his crush had gone on for months and he never told me. She too felt the same it turned out. I still think she does and that is why she continues to write to him at interesting moments where I am particularly close to him... (As is evident on fb).

I thought we had an agreement of no blindsiding. Yet how does one go about not doing that. Its impossible in mono relationships when they end I think. Maybe if it ends before someone new comes along? That's the only way I can see that a mono relationship would end without one person being blind sided by their partner leaving them for another. Either you are in the relationship or not. There is no working in another partner together with them.

The two of them could not be together because she is married anyway. Another thing that makes me very nervous. Her marriage is struggling and he offers a way out to her I think. Even if its a fantasy of something different, exciting, new, more rewarding than what she has with her husband.

If he decided to be poly she would have to be part of my life and he would not want that. He doesn't think we would get along. He would have to choose if that is the case and I wonder sometimes if that is why he chooses not to take on poly with her. He could push it if she meant that much. Couldn't he?

If she didn't work out, maybe someone sometime will. He says not, because it was such a unique experience. Maybe he's right. There are a lot of complicated factors. Who knows.

[Anneintherain]

If he decided to be poly she would have to be part of my life and he would not want that. He doesn't think we would get along. He would have to choose if that is the case and I wonder sometimes if that is why he chooses not to take on poly with her. He could push it if she meant that much. Couldn't he?



RP, I am just wondering if this idea is really something you are more flexible about than you think. What does it mean to you to be "part of your life"? I know you spend a lot of time with metamours and that metamour friendship is an important part of how you do poly, but do any of your partners have partners that you don't see or that you've just met briefly?

If Mono wanted to tackle poly, and his involvement with somebody just meant he'd be out of the house a few days a week for dates elsewhere because he felt more comfortable keeping things segregated, would that affect you in any other way than you might be lonely because he wasn't around as much?

This just made me wonder if you look differently at a new partner who happens to have a lover who doesn't want to hang out with you (as in not your ideal, but its fine because you know what to expect going in), vs how you are with Mono, because if he had a new partner you'd be much more comfortable if they fit into the framework/family you have that already exists, so that unknown is much more scary if even his poly might be exclusionary instead of inclusionary.

Is there a way you could meet this woman? Go out of your way to pick them him up while she'll be present or something? I just get the feeling that if you did even just get the chance to say hi to each other, things might get clearer for all three of you.

And I too would think that other circumstances in the future could lead to a situation like this for him again. I don't know how much of a loner Mono is, if his current leaning towards still feeling firmly monogamous after this long in a relationship with you is actively about not being poly, or wanting/wishing to spend a majority of his time with someone he loves.

It seems there is a lot of group time for your loves/family/friends in order to be able to be able to get face time with the people you all want to spend time with. With retirement coming up and your dating more and have less exclusive time with him, he'll have more time on his hands. If part of the struggle is having less time with you where he feels like he's your main squeeze those days/nights and it requires more shared time to get to be with you, then that's another thing that will need to be addressed if he hasn't thought about how that will impact him. You probably have talked about what that will look like or if it will become an issue, but maybe you haven't since the focus may have been on this female friend and what's going on there instead.

[redpepper]

I put some thoughts into words today and thought I would share. I have been trying to explain to Brad how I don't have any primaries or secondaries and why. I have a husband (PN), sure, but I have never thought of him as primary from the get go. My love is just as important and vital to my life as my husband or any of the other loves I have.

I think its because I chose whom I agree with and don't agree with and just because I have a commitment with someone doesn't mean I have to agree with everything they do. That for me was a profound understanding of myself in terms of my independence from others. I have my own set of values. I don't meld with those that I am partnered with. Its mine. I created it and I nurture it.

I find that often couples entering poly think that they have to support everything their partner does and be there for them regardless of how it effects them. I don't agree with that. I think it is okay to say to them, "you know sweety, I don't agree with what you are doing (this is why) but I love you enough to not let it come between us, so I think you have to go do that yourself and find others to support you on that one." It means that you can have a separate life from you partner yet still be committed to them.

I have different friends from my husband, different loves, different hobbies, even different dreams, but when I committed for life, I meant it and intend to be there regardless of what he does. I make that same commitment to every partner I have. I commit to being present in OUR RELATIONSHIP, not in everything they do. That is why I have no primary. I am responsible for how I represent myself and I will do what it takes to portray who I am as a person, not as a unit of two or more.

[redpepper]

It seems to me that poly is not about the "free love" that some come into it thinking. It seems to be about self examination and relationship examination. There is nothing like poly to make a person evaluate themselves and those they have relationships with. It seems that what comes up most is issues of integrity, communication compatibility and shared relationship goals and values.

This notion seems so simple, but is so incredibly complex at the same time. No "free" about it. Often there comes a huge expense.

[redpepper]

I have been thinking a lot about how people do poly differently than me. I am a tribal person. The trickle down that happens when one person in the "tribe," even in the far reaches of where the boundary is of my tribe, effects me greatly whether I like it or not. If someone does something that causes pain for another I feel it through that person, who has a relationship with that person, who has a relationship with that person who has a relationship with me. All of it comes my way. How I respond trickles back to them and everyone else.

The positive other side of receiving those feelings from others is that I feel huge amounts of love and support also from everyone and give the same also. All of the "energy" in my "tribe" moves and shifts from person to person. If someone comes into someone's life as a partner, or out, then that shift happens also. It keeps me on my toes, it keeps me thinking about extended consideration... compassion/empathy. What I do affects people and I intend to make sure that affect is only positive if I can possibly help it. If not, then I intend to make it a learning experience that is helpful to all.

I think about First Nations culture in Canada. I am no expert and really only know a bit, but I like that it is very important to surround someone in a family/nation who has struggles. The attempt to support the person through words of wisdom and love is really noble to me. Regardless of what they have done and who it has affected, the person is listened to, consulted about what they will do to make things right, encouraged to try new things, praised when they change their ways and given the well earned wisdom from their elders and family around them so that they might benefit and be given every possible chance to succeed. There are limits to how much is given and how much will be tolerated too. Its not like there is no consequence to actions, but that is the last straw and there is a huge effort to support their self journey before it gets to that point.

I see my role in my family and how I do poly the way I have described. Its tricky when those around me in my "tribe" don't see their role as I do, but I can only encourage them to listen and understand my stance and realise that not everyone is like me nor are they as experienced as I am in poly. I can only do what is right for me and in reflection of what I value in the hope that at least it will be well received even if the person doesn't like the way I do things or doesn't agree with how my poly works.

[lovefromgirl]

I have been thinking a lot about how people do poly differently than me. I am a tribal person. The trickle down that happens when one person in the "tribe," even in the far reaches of where the boundary is of my tribe, effects me greatly whether I like it or not. If someone does something that causes pain for another I feel it through that person, who has a relationship with that person, who has a relationship with that person who has a relationship with me. All of it comes my way. How I respond trickles back to them and everyone else.

This is how I seem to work as well. My dad's therapist isn't too happy about it, but she's not the one living here, being part of this family with everything we've experienced together. So.

I think about First Nations culture in Canada. I am no expert and really only know a bit, but I like that it is very important to surround someone in a family/nation who has struggles. The attempt to support the person through words of wisdom and love is really noble to me. Regardless of what they have done and who it has affected, the person is listened to, consulted about what they will do to make things right, encouraged to try new things, praised when they change their ways and given the well earned wisdom from their elders and family around them so that they might benefit and be given every possible chance to succeed. There are limits to how much is given and how much will be tolerated too. Its not like there is no consequence to actions, but that is the last straw and there is a huge effort to support their self journey before it gets to that point.

Very much something I want for myself in life. Learning how to see the benefits of this can be difficult for people who are used to a nuclear family structure (or a series of interlocked nuclear family structures). I had a giant extended family when I was small, though. It suddenly being just us three on this side of the pond was part of culture shock, I bet.

What you describe resembles Covey's concept of interdependence very much, and since that's also one of my values, I can consider and embrace this description of what I suspect is an idea with many names already.

Thank you.

[redpepper]

Its been a week of dealing with one thing after another it seems. Most of it right here on the forum. Many things come into play when making decisions and many things are confidential or unknown publicly. What looks like nothing going on is actually post after post in our mod forum on how to handle things fairly for all. Its a lot of work and has left me with "compassion fatigue" for the moment.

[LovingRadiance]

Hugs!

[BrigidsDaughter]

*hugs* Take some time for yourself, hon. I was away for the weekend and have no idea what I missed, but I just wanted to let you and all the mods know how much I appreciate all that you do.

[Magdlyn]

*hugs* Take some time for yourself, hon. I was away for the weekend and have no idea what I missed...

No doubt our Caribbean island friend. That was a doozy of a thread.

[CielDuMatin]

Its a lot of work and has left me with "compassion fatigue" for the moment.I definitely sympathise. I have had a few cases like this on fora that I've been trying to moderate and it's hard to keep all the mods happy, let alone all the members. Sometimes you really do have to take a step back from it all.

[redpepper]

Thanks guys :)

[redpepper]

I have a week of burlesque mayhem going on right now after two weekends in a row of music and beer festivalling. I hope to catch up here soon, at least intermittently.

[opalescent]

'Burlesque Mayhem' would be an AWESOME band name.

[nycindie]

I have a week of burlesque mayhem going on . . .

'Burlesque Mayhem' would be an AWESOME band name.

Oh, RP, you and your fellow burlesque performers should tour North America as Burlesque Mayhem and put on shows!!!!

[redpepper]

Funny you should say that because I was asked to join a troupe that's starting up and they are looking for a name. Burlesque mayhem would be a good name for a troupe too! :D

I spent a good deal of time with Mono this weekend. We do well together when we have long periods of time together. Its something we have very rarely had, but we become, well, very mono with each other. This past weekend was no different. We went to a four day music festival and saw a ton of bands we like in concert. A rare treat.

Apart from the wonderful time together we had there was a night of fighting. He told me his female friend had a new friend she was going to movies with and spending time with. I asked him how he felt about it and he shrugged it off. I could see there was more going on than a shrug off so I asked if he was sad, regretful that he hadn't worked with me about spending time with her, disappointed, angry. He said something along the lines of it not being worth the effort it would take to process and that it required too much work and he doesn't like work. Everything with me is work. I took this personally that I had made it that way and that if I had only been able to shut up and suck it up, he would be able to spend time with her.

The conversation hurt and he and I ended up not talking to each other for the last half of the band we were watching. Later, I remembered our discussion about my not seeing everything as his not loving me and that he isn't going to leave and I told him I decided to drop the whole thing. I wasn't going to let his words make me feel hurt. I realized he was doing his sabotage routine where-by he creates moments to make me doubt he cares and so I feel like dumping him and leaving. I told him I wouldn't do that and that I wasn't going to put up with that and wouldn't let him make me feel that way with his words. He agreed, he was doing the sabotage thing again and once we established that, we both were on the same page again. After that we were okay again.

Its fear that creates this behaviour for him. Right now there is a lot of fear for him. Fear of what will happen next in his life. The closer he gets to retiring from the navy, the more fear.

Last week I had my first sex date night with Brad. We had played a bit and had been doing some stuff, but not to the extent of having some time and a bedroom! We had his boy for the night and after he was in bed we went to the spare bedroom at his house. It was lovely and long over due, ...but the condom came off. We immediately stopped and accessed (again, as we keep up to date often) where we were at with tests and where our fluid bonded partners were at with test. All good... There are no outstanding concerns. It wasn't a matter of pregnancy either.

My biggest concern, and the one that completely wrecked the mood, was how my other partners would react. Last time that happened (four years ago) they freaked out as I didn't say anything until later and there was much more risk. I told them all right away and to my relief they were all thankful I had spoken up, and weren't too concerned once I explained the circumstance. Derby asked me how I was doing with it and I was grateful she asked. It was touching that she empathized with how I would feel.

Big Libra time coming up for me. Three Libra loves in one month of birthdays. I'm hosting a birthday party for libra's and taking Brad and Derby out to events. Mono got his present early, in the form of a belt he really wanted fixed. I will do something special for him with our family though too.

[rory]

My biggest concern, and the one that completely wrecked the mood, was how my other partners would react. Last time that happened (four years ago) they freaked out as I didn't say anything until later and there was much more risk. I told them all right away and to my relief they were all thankful I had spoken up, and weren't too concerned once I explained the circumstance. Derby asked me how I was doing with it and I was grateful she asked. It was touching that she empathized with how I would feel.

That is cool, life is great with such understanding people around you. :)

[nycindie]

He said something along the lines of it not being worth the effort it would take to process and that it required too much work and he doesn't like work. Everything with me is work. I took this personally that I had made it that way and that if I had only been able to shut up and suck it up, he would be able to spend time with her.

Most of the men I have been involved with are like this. I have been told that if a topic has been addressed once, why do we need to keep revisiting it? Any kind of processing and talking about things again and again is too much, it seems. Ahh, it's frustrating to me when I have to pull back and leave things alone, but it's also been a good lesson.

Last week I had my first sex date night with Brad . . . the condom came off. We immediately stopped and accessed (again, as we keep up to date often) where we were at with tests and where our fluid bonded partners were at with test. All good... There are no outstanding concerns.

Okay, I'm just wondering - after stopping and assessing the situation, he just put on another condom and you continued, right? I mean, I don't see why that would have to kill the mood, it's just something that happens sometimes. I'm not even sure I would tell other lovers that a condom came off unless the guy came while it wasn't on him. Oh, is that what happened? I'm only asking because I am really curious how other people handle these things.

[redpepper]

Thanks for the responses. NYC- I haven't been accustom to men who don't enjoy processing. Its a learning curve for me for sure. ;) a big one.

I was concerned because the wife he is fluid bonded with has a permiscuous boyfriend. She hadn't been tested since entering his life and I didn't know where he was at with that either. Turns out that Brad had been tested (I knew he had been) after the last time the wife had sex with the bf... About 6 weeks a month ago. He was fine. No concerns.

I wasn't too concerned except for the reaction I got last time from my other loves. Remember way back when I was just seeing Mono and him and PN had a really hard time with a condom breaking during sex with a bf that I didn't know anything about sexually? Anyway, I thought their reaction would be similar. It wasn't. Thankfully... Largely because I crossed my "T's" and dotted my "I's" this time as best as I could. Stopping right away helped with that security also.

We were just getting over my telling him the story and beginning to cuddle up again when his boy woke up :( and I had to go home... So no, no more lovin'

[redpepper]

A reminder to myself about who I think I am;

Sometimes I catch myself standing in the middle of my life rooted in the realization that I have taken on more than most. Most days I live one moment at a time and don't allow myself to think of anything but balancing time, energy, giving of love to others, actively listening to others and remaining in a position of trusting the lack of control I have.

I give everything to my partners and son and have a titch left for work, family and the very few friends I have. Mostly I just exist outside of my chosen family. I'm present but refuse responsibility for any relationship beyond what is in front of me. At least I try to be like that, but often think of others and give of myself regardless.

I have firm boundaries and a strong sense of who I am, what I can manage and what I value. I'm open to change and growth I think although it sometimes takes a brick up side my head about something to get me to notice that maybe I should look at myself. For this reason I prefer radically honest yet kind people who show me they love me by telling me the truth in as kind and compassionate a way possible. I don't have time to waste on wondering if I can trust someone and wondering what they are trying to say by trying to read between the lines. I prefer to get to the bottom of issues before the misconception and assumptions set in. After that, I find that nothing gets solved completely.

I tend to think that people want and strive to make positive and loving change, growth and energy in the world and I often realize I am extremely naïve about this. It isn't true, yet I hold on to it as my largest faith in humans.

The combination in a person of wanting to make positive and loving change, growth and energy in the world and being radically honest in the truth they speak yet remaining kind and compassionate is often irresistible to me. It has to be genuine though. Flakes are easy for me to spot and if there isn't an edge that makes them human then I just don't but it. Someone that is too "soft" makes me think that they are hiding hidden anger issues.

[BaggagePatrol]

Wow, this last post really resonated with me. Especially paragraph three and four.... feel very similarly in my own life. Love your posts.

[redpepper]

Thanks BP :)

[redpepper]

The weekend was a wash of burlesque and my brother being in town mostly. That and a wonderful date to a local park for a hike and then dinner...

I came out to my brother about the burlesque. Well, his partner anyway and then him. She wanted to know if they could crash at our place while they were in town and I had to tell her that I had a show the night of her wanting to stay over. No biggy, they came to the show! It was a strange sight to look out over the crowd and see my baby brother though. Not overly comfortable, but I just ignored it and carried on. He saw a number that was more funny than sexy. Thank goodness.

Brad came to see my show for the first time too. He sat behind my brother, his partner and Mono. I'm not sure why he sat alone. It seemed odd to me but after the show we met up with Derby and a large group of friends including Brad's wife, and the man I have been chatting with often that Leo's wife used to date and he seemed to socialize well with everyone there.

Leo's wifes ex and I have become friends and it was great that he and his wife came over along with the others. He and I have an on going casual friendship that is just pleasant and relaxed. No drama and no expectations.

Derby had her last bout of the season on Saturday and I directed everyone to see her that night. There is always burlesque. There isn't always derby. Now the season is done I will invite people to see the next big show I'm in for Halloween. I have a show in between, but that is the biggy.

So everyone came over to Mono's house and we partied until 2. It was the second night in a row for Mono and I and we were in the groove. The night before had been a party for our monogamous friends and the night had been just that... monogamous (whatever that means... after years of poly I can actually sense a difference).

The party was a poly pile up. ;) Complete with newbies and many metamours and loves. :D Just the way I like it. Mono commented after that he had enjoyed himself and thought that our new group of friends suited him and us more than the poly friends of the past. It does seem to be the beginning of a new era of poly friends. :) One that is well needed. There are some straggling old poly friends, but I feel as if there is a fresh start somehow.

My brother and PN came down to meet everyone and socialized for a while, but went up to bed after an hour. It was great to fall into bed after a large martini; dirty and wet and a large take out poutine (French Canadian dish made of french fries, gravy and cheese curds :p. Fucking awesome!). I was content. Satisfied.

Sunday I went for a hike with Brad after picking all the rest of the apples off our tree. It was the fourth tree of fruit to pick this summer and I was glad to finally give it a rest and give all the fruit away. The garden wasn't that great this year. The flowers were, but the veg sucked. It just wasn't warm and sunny enough at the right time. Damned island weather.

Brad and I hadn't seen each other in a couple of weeks and it was great to catch up and get all our stories out. We lay in a large grassy field for a time and sat by the ocean. It was a moment I won't easily forget. It was the moment where I realized that there is really no going back and that I am not scared any more. I have full trust of the situation and my lack of control in it. It was a good feeling to just be myself and be content that the others were as satisfied as I could possibly help make them.

Four partners is really too many. It really is. I don't suggest it. I don't know how I am managing and I don't think I give any relationship all I could if there were less, but I carry on and give as much as I can. Sometimes I want to hide and pretend its just me to think about. Maybe I will take a break sometimes and do just that, but when I feel I have caught up with one I remind myself of the perceived neglect of another. I flit from one relationship to another all the while never feeling as if I have caught up or been able to give as much as I would of liked to of.

Brad and I talked at dinner about how one knows that a person is partner-worthy. I decided that if I could imagine going on an vacation with someone where we would spend a lot of down time together, just sitting and staring quietly in the comfort of the others presence, then they are worth looking at for a partner. Small talk and having the need to entertain someone, to me, indicates friendship.

Silence and solitude with very little going on is a huge leap for me from daily life. I don't adjust easily and I need to feel safe to go through that with someone. It would make me so vulnerable and so much a part of myself that isn't visible to many that I would have to trust deeply. Turning extroversion into introversion is a vulnerable thing. I don't do that with anyone except those I love and trust the most.... ahhhh, a vacation like that with any of my loves fills my heart with glee. I really do think that I couldn't do without any of the four. :)

...............................

Mono's friend is off again and won't be seeing her until December. Maybe not again for longer than that. He admitted last week that things have changed between them and that he hasn't given her the friendship he promised. He felt that he had backed away and that he had not lived up to the agreement he made to not do that. She, in turn, has backed away also. although I still see a heck of a lot of posting back and forth on fb and notice occasionally when she writes him on fb. What "backing away" means I don't really understand. Changed feelings I think.

I was surprised he told me all the info he did actually. I don't hear about her often and I think I might of even asked to get that much out of him. He likes to be private, but is beginning to tell me when people flirt with him and what happens when they do. He has a large number of followers and he loves to be admired. He's a charming man and very funny. I know that he gets lots of attention that I don't know about and I feel far more comfortable knowing about it. I ask questions so as to understand better though and he thinks that I am feeling threatened. Really I am just curious and trying to sort out how I feel about certain people propositioning my man. Ha! I'm just not used to it. Even if its likely been going on for some time without my knowing.

We have been fighting more often lately on stupid little things that run away with us. I worry about it a bit due to his opening up emotionally a bit more about the woman etc. and the awkwardness of this new feeling of knowing more personal stuff about him, but I blow it off and make jokes about it. I don't think I will feel comfortable until after he finishes work for good and is settled into his new routine. All of us are waiting for that. The whole house at this point.

[LovingRadiance]

I can't imagine trying to juggle four loves, my kids, school whew! I admire your tenacity.
I love to flirt with your men. I do so much more frequently with Mono than PN. But both are ever so sweet and fun to flirt with. I will promise you, it will remain just friendly flieting though. Lol. Too far to travel for romance! Besides, their gorgeous, playful woman would be very tempting were I closer. Lol!!

[redpepper]

Heh :D thanks LR.

You're guys are just as flirtable... ;)

[redpepper]

Its the month of birthdays around here.

Derby and Brad both have their birthdays today. I took Derby to a show on the weekend. Boy-lesque! It was so much fun and we had a great time, even though it didn't start until 10.15pm on a Sunday. We both work in the morning and were so wound up on coffee and a good time that neither of us slept that night. We were both so tired at work the next day.

Tonight I secretly planned with Derby's husband, to take her out for dinner with their kids, her friends and child and my guys and boy. We were a rowdy bunch of ten at a sushi restaurant. It was a lot of fun complete with presents, flowers and cake. Derby was the queen with her crown at the table. She was as beautiful as ever in the new corset that her husband bought her.

Brad's birthday I will celebrate with him tomorrow. I took him out to burlesque too, but tomorrow I am going over to his place for the evening. His wife and I secretly planned that too. I am so glad to not have any secrets again like that weighing me down. I loved asking questions about what they would do for their birthdays, but had a hard time with telling them I wasn't free to celebrate with them as much as I usually would or could. That part is all revealed now and I look forward to a birthday celebration tomorrow at Brad's. He is making him and I a vegetarian meal. It will be the second time we have had more than an couple of hours alone together. I am very excited... and so is he. Its all he has talked about since I told him last night. His wife and boy will be home at the boys bed time and then we will all watch a movie together.

Later this month is Mono's birthday. He has had his present already as I bought him a hand made belt to replace his old one. The buckle is now on a new belt. I couldn't hide it for very long as he wears it every day, so I had to tell him. We will go for dinner as a family and invite some of his friends along. I am wondering if I should invite his female friend...

Mono's female friend and I have been writing back and forth on FB a bit. She responded to something I posted and I took it and ran with it. I have posted a couple of things on her wall that I thought she would like (It has helped to FB stalk her! Who knew it would mean that I know what she likes?!) and she has responded to more things.

We have reached an end for now I think as she responded to something that I knew a lot of my friends would disagree with and challenge. Sure enough they have and I worry that that will be it. Our politics are vastly different and while I don't care much about that, she might. Where she loves bacon, guns, and zombies, I like vegetarian/vegan food, quotes about love and peace and music. We seemed to of been able to understand each other in relation to recycling stuff creatively and homesteading though. That's something I guess, lol. :p

I have been struggling with some depression this last little while. I have been missing old friends and being hard on myself for friendships ending in confusion and anger again. Re-hashing questions and over thinking about what happened in certain situations. I just can't let stuff go, as hard as I try, I will always re-hash stuff over and over again, letting time pass awkwardly, until there is no chance of getting to the bottom of things. A lot of the time the moment is lost and there is no reason to bring stuff up again as the person I am thinking about likely doesn't care or even remember me any more. I seem to be out of it for now. :) I'm just me after all and I have to be able to cope with my tedious tendencies to perseverate on stuff I can't change.

[SNeacail]

We both work in the morning and were so wound up on coffee and a good time that neither of us slept that night. We were both so tired at work the next day.

Oh, poor dears! :p;):D Isn't that how you define a successful party?

Mono's female friend and I have been writing back and forth on FB a bit. She responded to something I posted and I took it and ran with it. I have posted a couple of things on her wall that I thought she would like (It has helped to FB stalk her! Who knew it would mean that I know what she likes?!) and she has responded to more things.

FB stalking is fun.

We have reached an end for now I think as she responded to something that I knew a lot of my friends would disagree with and challenge. Sure enough they have and I worry that that will be it. Our politics are vastly different and while I don't care much about that, she might. Where she loves bacon, guns, and zombies, I like vegetarian/vegan food, quotes about love and peace and music. We seemed to of been able to understand each other in relation to recycling stuff creatively and homesteading though. That's something I guess, lol. :p

OK, don't worry too much. My political views are all over the board, but I have friends and family on both sides to the extreme. If I go by my fb feed, it's pretty well balanced. I have had to have conversations with some and say "I can't agree with you on certain subjects and I hope we can just agree to disagree on these things. While I don't mind voicing my opinion, I'd prefer not to get into a debate." In many cases it works great, although not so much with parents :rolleyes:.

Re-hashing questions and over thinking about what happened in certain situations. I just can't let stuff go, as hard as I try, I will always re-hash stuff over and over again, letting time pass awkwardly, until there is no chance of getting to the bottom of things.

I do this too and it sucks. Don't have any advice for you, but hugs!

[redpepper]

Thanks SNeacail. She posted something on my wall this morning that made me think we are still okay. :D I was glad to receive it.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Thanks SNeacail. She posted something on my wall this morning that made me think we are still okay. :D I was glad to receive it.
I was figuring that someone who likes "bacon, guns, and zombies", isn't going to be deterred by a little FB sparing. Her skin would be thicker than that. No worries.

[redpepper]

I was figuring that someone who likes "bacon, guns, and zombies", isn't going to be deterred by a little FB sparing. Her skin would be thicker than that. No worries.
True enough, although she did participate at the beginning of the thread. I suspect she just isn't so invested in fighting about it. Today she brought Mono some books for me. Nice! :) not sure what I think and feel about it all, so I'm not examining it at all. I'm more interested in Mono's response than anything else.

I've been really happy lately. I love the attention I have been able to give to my loves during their birthdays. I'm broke and exhausted, but content and feel that I have adequately shown them how much I live them. It spreads once I start I find. I want to give and show love in gallons. PN hasn't missed out. Even if it isn't his birthday. I've just been showing him I love and appreciate him in smaller, less expensive and time using ways.

Mono is next. My dear sweet Mono. Oh he's going to be loved up something fierce! :D After that I will need a me break.

[redpepper]

Mono got a present from his lady friend. She gave it to him with books for me to borrow that she thought I'd like. He didn't tell me about the present when he told me about the books earlier. I felt that she had buttered me up to make things nice between us so she could give it to him without my being upset. Maybe she was feeling me out. Then I thought it might be a goodbye present. He will be leaving his job after all and that is where he sees her. She is leaving next weekend won't be back before he's done. Now there are books to return to her. Which means seeing her to be able to return them. :rolleyes:

[redpepper]

That wonderful feeling when all my loves are in my house, under one roof, eating the food I made them and letting me serve them. :)

Happy Canadian Thanks Giving.

[redpepper]

I have been waiting to see if my communication with Mono's female friend continues as it would seem to me that if it stopped then I indeed was being used to smooth over any repercussions of the present Mono got.

I thanked her for the books she lent me yesterday and she continued talking to me and writing back and forth about what's in them. A GOOD SIGN! I felt much better about it after choosing to see her actions as nothing more than positive friendship building.

I talked to Mono about all this and he let me know that like everyone else in his office he quite often arranges birthday cards and gifts for people. He had done this for her as she is well liked and known to his co-workers. He thought she was returning the kindness with a birthday/retirement/christmas present of his own. He saw no motive beyond kindness between friends.

He also said that it doesn't matter what she thinks and feels, it matters more how he responds to it. I hadn't thought of it that way. I agreed entirely and will be reminding myself of that from here on in. I intend to watch his reactions rather than her actions.

Mono and I again had the discussion about his retirement and how I confuse his anxiety and pensiveness to be about her when really he is thinking about his retirement and concern about where to go next in his life. It helps me to have this conversation over and over again with him as each time I learn something more about what he is going through. He works hard at letting me know his feelings and I appreciate it. I know its hard for him to verbalize what is going on in his head, but it makes a huge difference to my connection to him and in turn, I am hoping, to his being able to process by himself without my questioning what he thinks about. Once I know something of his process I am more than willing to give him all the space he requires. I do it cheerfully and lovingly then.

[redpepper]

Everything burlesque this week. Two shows in ten days means a very busy Ms. Pepper. I feel invisible right now as a result as I tuck myself away to costume, practice and stay up nights thinking and processing my life.

A successful show this week with many people there I know from many communities, including the BDSM community. I haven't been active in that community for over a year now as burlesque has become more important. My kink side has gone underground. This is where I prefer it. I am not a voyeur and I don't particularly get off on being watched at BDSM events. Burlesque has filled all aspects of being watched for me and now I find myself having the luxurious feeling of being able to indulge in my fantasy life and think of fetishes that make me tingly in all the right places... I am finding that burlesque and fetish are becoming one. This next number I am doing for a Halloween show is a fetish number and my most provocative. I basically fuck a teddy bear. Wouldn't you know it, my co-workers have decided to come to this particular show. :rolleyes:

I am waiting for the many tid bits of drama and relationship navigation to slow down and work themselves out. None of it is to do with me, but it effects me in that I take peoples emotions on and have enough education and experience by now that I predict out comes that make me wiggle in my seat. I remain cautious and reminded that I don't know all sides of the stories and its nothing to do with me. Still, I feel and care deeply for those involved and fight myself on making suggestions and comments that they might see as intrusive and controlling. Where is the line between sharing wisdom and attempting to control outcomes so as to experience some kind of relieve?

Still, occasionally I get aggravated that someone thinks they are the only one going through stuff, the only ones with problems and dilemmas, the only ones that have stuff to talk about and get resentful that I don't get asked how I am doing and what is going on for me. Its my own fault. I don't push my own issues in conversations and tend to inquire about others rather than talk about my self. Not with everyone, but most people. When I do finally say something, usually out of frustration, people tend to be surprised that I have my own shit going on and that I am in the same boat as them or have been. They get surprised that they are not unique in all the world at all. When it comes to poly, we have all been through it before. Its not anything new. And if we haven't, we will at some point.

So I have saturated myself in costume making and going over numbers in my head as a way of coping with feeling left out, frustrated and resentful. Meh, it works for me.... on to intensive creativity I guess.

In my relationships there is really just the matter of time issues. As usual. Time and desire. I have lost desire, at the moment, in spending time with anyone and I suspect they all think that I am spending time with someone else and that is why I have been slightly absent. If the plates aren't balance as far as time then I end up with forlorn looking partners that wonder why they aren't getting attention. At least that is what I think in my own head. Truth is, I just don't want company right now and want to nurture my primary relationship. Maybe by the end of this week that will change when my time is freed up a bit more.

I also want some attention too and don't feel I have been getting it. It seems to me that when in I am in a situation where everyone is waiting for me, no one seeks me out, because they think I am too busy and getting attention elsewhere. I am actually not. I spend time and energy giving attention when I can and get little in return most days. I feel like I am clambering at the moment to fill a need that isn't being filled. I know it is me that needs to fill it which brings me right back to my need to isolate and be my own primary... which makes for unhappy partners.... which means I need to spend energy on them... which means the cycle continues.

Actually, truthfully, PN is the biggest giver to me. He takes care of many things I don't have time for or energy. He gets the least amount of my time and gives the most. He really is the most incredible man. I wish he would find someone that would give him more attention than I have time for. He deserves that. At the same time I am concerned I will lose him to someone that has time for him. I would be lost without his attention to the details of our family life. I guess I would adjust, but I don't want to and don't wish for that.

There has been lots of pushes in other areas of my life lately also. We are likely going to go on strike at my work and with the retiring of a co-worker from his position of shop steward, I have been asked to do the job. I am excited about getting some training that I wouldn't normally get in the form of mediation training and excited to know something of what is going on in more detail that the union has come to the decision to strike. I am not excited about the extra time away from my life for meetings and not so much looking forward to passing on info to workers that get frustrated with my lack of detail and care for facts. I carry an understanding of feelings, emotional content and overall sense of what is going on and sometimes that is not what people want to know.

This week at my sons school there is the AGM where I think I am likely going to be asked and voted in to be PAC president (parents advisory committee). The job is a thankless one... as most of these jobs are, and while I like to be involved in his school I have enjoyed being somewhat removed my being the PAC secretary instead. Truth is that I have been more than a little frustrated with the way the president has run things in the last years and have a lot of ideas for change. Last year I went ahead and attempted to make some of those changes and got her back up. Some people liked the changes and this is why I think I might be voted in.

I don't have any time left. At all. Like NONE. I fear I will lose my mind soon. Again. Amongst a week of intensive getting ready for my show, I have some big decisions to make about how to spend my time. Time to isolate and buckle down to where changes can be made.

[Arrowbound]

I remain cautious and reminded that I don't know all sides of the stories and its nothing to do with me. Still, I feel and care deeply for those involved and fight myself on making suggestions and comments that they might see as intrusive and controlling. Where is the line between sharing wisdom and attempting to control outcomes so as to experience some kind of relieve?

Still, occasionally I get aggravated that someone thinks they are the only one going through stuff, the only ones with problems and dilemmas, the only ones that have stuff to talk about and get resentful that I don't get asked how I am doing and what is going on for me. Its my own fault. I don't push my own issues in conversations and tend to inquire about others rather than talk about my self. Not with everyone, but most people. When I do finally say something, usually out of frustration, people tend to be surprised that I have my own shit going on and that I am in the same boat as them or have been. They get surprised that they are not unique in all the world at all. When it comes to poly, we have all been through it before. Its not anything new. And if we haven't, we will at some point.


Actually, truthfully, PN is the biggest giver to me. He takes care of many things I don't have time for or energy. He gets the least amount of my time and gives the most. He really is the most incredible man. I wish he would find someone that would give him more attention than I have time for. He deserves that. At the same time I am concerned I will lose him to someone that has time for him. I would be lost without his attention to the details of our family life. I guess I would adjust, but I don't want to and don't wish for that.

I myself have discovered recently that I hate detail. We're about to move and having to deal with the little things is bothersome to me and I'd prefer my SO figure it out and execute while I do other stuff that's beneficial to us. We work better that way and I'm happier that way.

I am not excited about the extra time away from my life for meetings and not so much looking forward to passing on info to workers that get frustrated with my lack of detail and care for facts. I carry an understanding of feelings, emotional content and overall sense of what is going on and sometimes that is not what people want to know.

Yep.

All of this resonates so very deeply with me. I don't have much to say besides, I'm right there with you Red. Right. There. I get it I get it I get it.

:o

[rory]

Where is the line between sharing wisdom and attempting to control outcomes so as to experience some kind of relieve?

This is something I've been thinking about. I often feel that I can give quite good feedback about stuff, but with some issues I've actually felt that I maybe shouldn't comment because some of my motivation might be affected by my own feelings. It may not be even that I want a certain outcome, but that I'd like some kind of conclusion to uncertainty.

Still, occasionally I get aggravated that someone thinks they are the only one going through stuff, the only ones with problems and dilemmas, the only ones that have stuff to talk about and get resentful that I don't get asked how I am doing and what is going on for me. Its my own fault. I don't push my own issues in conversations and tend to inquire about others rather than talk about my self. Not with everyone, but most people.

There was actually interesting discussion about this precise thing somewhere else; it seems people divide in their communication styles with regards to asking questions or not and to how they tell about themselves. This can create misunderstandings, since some people may feel they don't want to ask about things the other person doesn't bring up first. So they tell about themself and expect the other person to do the same. But then the other person may feel like the person who tries to be considerate is not interested and self-involved.

I tend to be vary of asking about things even if I am close with the person. I fear I'm being too personal, or the other person will feel pressured to answer. But after finding this out I've thought maybe I should try to make a note about how the other person communicates; if they ask a lot of questions, they might actually like it if I do the same. It is difficult, though, to change the way that feels more natural. But maybe you could also try to tell about yourself without being asked? I bet many of the people would really be interested, but don't want to accidentaly cross a boundary. :)

[redpepper]

Thanks rory and arrowbound. Rory, I do talk about myself to most people when I feel comfortable. Some people though have so much going on and are so self absorbed that they find it hard to listen or aren't interested. Rightly so if they have lots to sort through. I guess I just have to find someone to pay some attention to me talking sometime soon. Actually I did today when I met Brad for a coffee. I feel like I have been listened to and that equals feeling a lot better.

[redpepper]

Some people though have so much going on and are so self absorbed that they find it hard to listen or aren't interested. Rightly so if they have lots to sort through.Have you heard that Black Keys lyric? "A broken heart is blind." Makes sense as to why people think that they are the only ones going through stuff sometimes. Hearts break over the smallest and the biggest things daily if you think about it.

[redpepper]

I wrote a version of this on a group last week and it is holding in my mind. I thought I would paste it here.
.................................................. ..................................

Personally I like drama. The kind that means that shit is aired out with calmness, kindness and a whole lot of listening, pacing and consideration. Not the kind that is perpetuated because someone is in a comfortable rut of creating it over and over again just because that is what they are used to and feel they are only valuable if they are causing it or are a part of it.

There is an art to knowing which is which in people and that means really listening to them and really asking them some hard questions. Asking myself some hard questions. There are not many people who can reach the point of being frustrated with drama and still push to see if there is space in front of it. An ending to it. That kind of work with someone is such a huge gift. It takes incredible people to spend that time. It takes incredible love.

Drama to me is inevitable. Regardless of how much I avoid or hate it. I embrace it for a time until the issues are somewhat solved with a course of action or a break needs to be taken. What really is damaging I find is when people decide to shut down and shut up because something is hard. Sometimes there is just as much drama caused because someone has decided to stop talking; as if the issues just disappear and no one will notice they were their at all.

This is the kind of shutting down that is about lack kind and caring communication. The kind that becomes hurtful. Even a simple "I need a break" is better than silence or harsh words. Reaching that silent point usually means its done. At least for now. In a case such as this, I would have a hard time with being involved in any way with that person again... it would be near impossible for me to be at all involved with the person if one of my partners decided to be involved with them. Still, I would give it a try and do my best to trust that whatever the issues they can be worked through. Why? Because love is worth it. Being positive is worth it.

To me negative anything begets more negative and so I would try to work things out with anyone who repeats themselves in my life. Positive loving actions and thoughts do the same thing. If I just stop being involved in negative then it has no where to go. If I encourage positive it expands. Thing is, how does one stay positive when there is the element of "its not fair" or "its hurts still" and the frustration that comes along with that.... that is the tricky part and the part that has to be practiced I think. I would ask for a lot of forgiveness while I process I think. I would ask for space. I would need it in order to get back to loving again.

I would also keep my negativity within a circle that I trust will not judge me or expand the negative thinking that comes up sometimes. They would have to be people that know I need to blow off steam in order to maintain order for myself and to spread the positive stuff. Those people would love my drama because they love me and would understand that I don't wish to hold on to it but need to process somewhere. Those people would be positive and loving and I would give that in return.

I have this right now. I am so blessed. :) Yet there is still so much work to be done with some people... It hurts and my heart aches to do it. It aches when they don't want to work as hard as I do.

[rory]

Personally I like drama. The kind that means that shit is aired out with calmness, kindness and a whole lot of listening, pacing and consideration. Not the kind that is perpetuated because someone is in a comfortable rut of creating it over and over again just because that is what they are used to and feel they are only valuable if they are causing it or are a part of it.

I actually don't see the first kind as drama at all. Directly but kindly expressing emotional stuff, showing emotions, alone doesn't equal drama (and it is some chauvinistic bs that it is seen that way in the first place). It actually prevents drama, since as you say:

What really is damaging I find is when people decide to shut down and shut up because something is hard. Sometimes there is just as much drama caused because someone has decided to stop talking; as if the issues just disappear and no one will notice they were their at all.

[redpepper]

"I feel joy when we meet, and when I see your face, you literally sparkle. I both feel the happiness to be with you and the ache of knowing it will be too short."

Text from Brad tonight.

[redpepper]

My show this past weekend was the best yet. I got a standing ovation and have been asked to commit to doing several shows before christmas. I'm so excited yet the shows conflict with birthday and travel plans I have to go to Nova Scotia, Canada with Mono.

Having four partners means lots of birthday celebrations so I sent out an email to all of them giving them some dates as to when I'm free to do various things from group celebrations to individual ones. So far I am being made dinner and taken out to dinner by PN and Mono. :) yay! Love being treated to a great meal.

Last weekend was Mono's birthday. I got in touch with much of our friends and we all went to a restaurant together. I think this was the first birthday where many people showed up that are not family. Usually he doesn't want anything major, just my parents, PN's parents and us. It was fun and I think he enjoyed seeing that people love and care about him.

[redpepper]

Ken came over this weekend to pick something up that Mono borrowed ages ago and to have a visit with him. He texted ahead of time to be sure I would be there as he wanted to see me too. I knew he was coming and had intended to just stay in my room, but agree, after his text, to say hello.

He looked the same; big smile, moving from one foot to the next, hands in pockets, obviously really glad to see me. We held each other in a warm hug for a long time and I enjoyed feeling him against me again; his presence. I was overwhelmed and didn't have much to say. I'm not sure if it was because it was the day of my show or because I was seeing him again after many months, or because my emotions hit me and a flood of thoughts about my co-worker, my sadness and hopelessness around him... But they were enough to knock me out until today, four days later. How can it possibly be that in the midst of four wonderful relationships that I can't let someone go and just be happy for him. I have tried to have compersion, but I am left feeling resentful and hurt by the situation. I guess I need more time. I guess its not helping to work with his gf. Constant reminder. Daily. Its fucked up our relationship for me I think.

I have started chatting with men again on okc lately in the hopes of working on friendships with people that want to hang out with me and my tribe. Its a long shot, but we all need friends right? Even if I have a full deck of loves. I have been going through that feeling of "fuck it, just get in touch with whomever you are missing and see if they want to chat" again. Maybe it was seeing Ken again? I just want to stay in touch some how. Make all the lose ends tied up again. Maybe I will just go ahead and do that. I feel like working on friendships lately...