definition of Poly?

[redpepper]

okay.... what is everyones take on the definition of poly?

I have a husband and a boyfriend that I love each in their own way. I love them very much and want to spend the rest of my life loving them... I call this my poly relationship. I tell them everything that goes on for me with other people in my life except details about sex and details about other peoples personal lives as is fit.

I have another lover who identifies as poly and he has a live in girlfriend that also has other lovers. They share nothing about each others lives and they barely know who each other sleeps with. This I don't consider poly as they don't have love attachments the way I do to their lovers. I don't have a love attachment to him other than a friend type love. I consider him a friend that I am sexual with on occasion.

I have another lover who I see also who's wife had a boyfriend and he has a friend he sleeps with regularly and me and my husband that we have threesomes with from time to time... he considers himself poly, but again, there is friendship there not love in the same way as I love my men.

Lastly I have a female lover who is also a friend that also considers herself poly.... again I see it as a friendship and not one of my poly relationships.

I almost get offended that people who are friends consider themselves in a poly relatinship with me. It almost makes my wonderful relationships with my men seem smaller and have less meaning... they are by far my loves and so different from the others. any ideas on this?

one last thing? How come when I ask someone who is poly our for coffee they think I am asking them on a date? Can I not have poly friends that I am not dating? I go out with my lovers/friends often and don't consider it a date yet they do... why is everything a date? my female poly friend thinks we are dating because we hang out too, yet I thought we were friends.... I am so confused and frustrated! what the heck?! help.....? please?

[alphafour]

This is a big load. I am sorry that you feel frustrated over what seems like words.

There seems to be a lot of definitions going around, and you have to realize that words are simply descriptions of feelings and actions. Your feelings may not fit the definition according to me, or anybody else. You define your relationships. The words don't.

[redpepper]

very true, thank you alphafour. It really doesn't matter what others are doing, just what I am and how I feel. It seems where we are there are a lot of poly people that are in a party, have fun with it, free love kind of mode.... not necessarily loving in the romantic, soulful, "this spans all time" kind of way that I am with my men. I think this is what is making me feel different.

[alphafour]

very true, thank you alphafour. It really doesn't matter what others are doing, just what I am and how I feel. It seems where we are there are a lot of poly people that are in a party, have fun with it, free love kind of mode.... not necessarily loving in the romantic, soulful, "this spans all time" kind of way that I am with my men. I think this is what is making me feel different.

It's like a lot of other things, if a lot of people get involved, if becomes a fad, and loses the original intent because of the beliefs of certain "leaders" of the movement. If the leader in your area is just a "swinger" then you local group becomes a "swinging group." I believe poly is much more than this, where a group becomes a community, and forms a sort of "tribal relationship" and they "love" each other, more like a commune where everybody works for the common good of the tribe.

In the late sixties, there were "free love" communes, and there was lots of sexual freedom and sharing of common goals within the communes. There are still some old hippies continuing to live in such communes. The fad isn't as popular, but there are those who stuck to their values and continued. I believe those are the correct models to follow.

[Mark1npt]

Redpepper, you are one busy lady! How do you possibly find all the time to do all (and everyone) that you do? I can identify with your deep poly relationship with "your men" as I have "my girls". However you seem to have varying levels of relationships going on in your life at any given time. This is bound to confuse some of your other friends and aquaintances, who seeing you being poly with "your men" naturally assume you are being poly with them or they are being poly with you since you are obviously poly.

I can see where boundaries and definitions could become blurred. Maybe the communication that needs to take place in our triads, also needs to take place amongst your casual friends too so that they are not expecting something else from you during your get togethers with them?

[Quath]

I tend to see "poly" as living a lifestyle where a person may desire loving many people with knowledge and consent of all people. So in the case where the partners do not love the people they are intimate with, I would consider them swingers. If a person is single, I consider them poly if they are willing to be involved in a poly relationship (just like someone can be a gay virgin).

Ultimately, there are two reasons for labels. One is to help identify others in a consistent manner (like for sociological research) and the others is to identify yourself as how you see yourself. So if anyone self-labels as anything, I go with that since they are trying to explain something about themselves. However, if we are talking statistics, I like a consistent label.

[alphafour]

I tend to see "poly" as living a lifestyle where a person may desire loving many people with knowledge and consent of all people. So in the case where the partners do not love the people they are intimate with, I would consider them swingers. If a person is single, I consider them poly if they are willing to be involved in a poly relationship (just like someone can be a gay virgin).

Ultimately, there are two reasons for labels. One is to help identify others in a consistent manner (like for sociological research) and the others is to identify yourself as how you see yourself. So if anyone self-labels as anything, I go with that since they are trying to explain something about themselves. However, if we are talking statistics, I like a consistent label.

Thank you Quath. I am glad to see that you and I share equivalent definitions and that you were able to annuciate it so clearly.

[River]

Redpepper,

Is a lover anyone with whom any of us have a sexual relationship, or is it anyone with whom we have a loving relationship? Very vague word, that. But it needn't be, because it has the word love in it rather prominently (however you spell that, i'm too lazy at the moment to look it up). You seem to call anyone you have a sexual relationship with a "lover". But maybe you ought not to, since they are not all in your very tight-knit "circle of love", as I call anyone with whom I have a loverly relationship.

For me, generally, my "lovers" are those with whom I'm also being physically or sexually intimate. But i have room for exceptions, I suppose. I have a friend I've never met in person(!), who lives far, far away, that I love profoundly, and with whom I'm intensely intimate (on-line). He loves me, too, similarly, I think--I almost know. I have other friends not too far different in levels of intimacy and involvement in one another's lives. I'm simply not sure what a "lover" is, in a number of respects. Sex is so far from being the deciding factor. But this is all language talk. Terms mean what we mean them to mean, I suppose.

What matters is the love. Do you love your friends with whom you're also occasionally sharing a bed? If not, why are you sharing a bed? These are just questions. More words. What matters, I suppose, are the questions.

[Danny40179]

I see a couple of options here. One of which you already said and that's so long as you're comfortable with the type of relationship that you have with an individual, does it matter what they call it? Secondly, explain to your lovers exactly what you think. That your men are your men and they are friends with benefits. (or whatever other terminology you choose)

You have too many reasons to be happy, to be so stressed out. ;)

[AutumnalTone]

Being poly involves having multiple intimate relationships. That, in no fashion, indicates that they will all have the same characteristics! Some will be closer than others and the range of emotions present in one does not indicate the same range of emotions--or intensity!--will appear in any other. To say that one or two of many are "poly" and the rest aren't is, well, absurd. You have many--which makes them all part of being poly--and some are closer and more intense than others.

I have to wonder why you would be bothered that people with whom you have some involvement would identify you as one of their poly ties. Are you simply using them for sex? They obviously include you as a loving partner of some sort, so for you to decry that while still having sex with them suggests that you are leading them on and using them for sex. That they don't share the same close ties that you have with your primary relationships is immaterial.

[redpepper]

Redpepper, you are one busy lady! How do you possibly find all the time to do all (and everyone) that you do? I can identify with your deep poly relationship with "your men" as I have "my girls". However you seem to have varying levels of relationships going on in your life at any given time. This is bound to confuse some of your other friends and aquaintances, who seeing you being poly with "your men" naturally assume you are being poly with them or they are being poly with you since you are obviously poly.

I can see where boundaries and definitions could become blurred. Maybe the communication that needs to take place in our triads, also needs to take place amongst your casual friends too so that they are not expecting something else from you during your get togethers with them?

thank you, I completely agree and have begun to talk about these things with them... you are right, I think there is some assumptions being made and I need to clarify... as do they :)

[MonoVCPHG]

That they don't share the same close ties that you have with your primary relationships is immaterial.


I beg to differ..it is not immaterial to me. I have a expectations of everyone in our lives because it is "our" lives. The term "friends with benefits" makes me ill.

[redpepper]

Redpepper,

Is a lover anyone with whom any of us have a sexual relationship, or is it anyone with whom we have a loving relationship? Very vague word, that. But it needn't be, because it has the word love in it rather prominently (however you spell that, i'm too lazy at the moment to look it up). You seem to call anyone you have a sexual relationship with a "lover". But maybe you ought not to, since they are not all in your very tight-knit "circle of love", as I call anyone with whom I have a loverly relationship.

For me, generally, my "lovers" are those with whom I'm also being physically or sexually intimate. But i have room for exceptions, I suppose. I have a friend I've never met in person(!), who lives far, far away, that I love profoundly, and with whom I'm intensely intimate (on-line). He loves me, too, similarly, I think--I almost know. I have other friends not too far different in levels of intimacy and involvement in one another's lives. I'm simply not sure what a "lover" is, in a number of respects. Sex is so far from being the deciding factor. But this is all language talk. Terms mean what we mean them to mean, I suppose.

What matters is the love. Do you love your friends with whom you're also occasionally sharing a bed? If not, why are you sharing a bed? These are just questions. More words. What matters, I suppose, are the questions.

lovers is a tricky word. I have a friend who considers all her peeps her sweethearts... I am so not into that term. LOL. ha. Doesn't fit my personality at all. I would say I love my friends yes... or am getting to love them. Mono thinks I could be just a booty call and doesn't like that prospect so I have backed away from some circumstances to see where the friendship goes for awhile. If there is a friendship to fall on then my love for them will certainly be deeper, but then does that make our relationship poly? I wouldn't want a boyfriend/girlfriend thing going on with anyone but Mono, just a close friendship with benefits (with those I have backed away from for now, no one else at the moment). I came from a childhood of being intimate with friends and now that I have discovered that it is possible to be that way as an adult I find it only natural to just do it rather than label it, but for some reason, as an adult, because it is an adult thing to do, I have a need to label... hmmmm,,, sucks.

[redpepper]

I beg to differ..it is not immaterial to me. I have a expectations of everyone in our lives because it is "our" lives. The term "friends with benefits" makes me ill.

yes love I know it does... the talks continue.. heh :)

[AutumnalTone]

You lost me. I'm not advocating any particular term for anybody. I'm just saying that because one relationship isn't as intense as another doesn't mean it isn't a relationship. Referring to the intense relationships as poly relationships and the less intense relationships as not being poly, from here, appears to be misapplication of the term. "Poly" indicates multiple relationships only and has nothing to say about the intensity of each one.

[redpepper]

because one relationship isn't as intense as another doesn't mean it isn't a relationship. Referring to the intense relationships as poly relationships and the less intense relationships as not being poly, from here, appears to be misapplication of the term. "Poly" indicates multiple relationships only and has nothing to say about the intensity of each one.
I think for me the intensity of the relationship is paramount in describing poly for me. I am a bit lost too at this point.. heehee. Perhaps if I were to use the term poly for all my loving relationships I wouldn't be. But I don't want to over use the term and take away from it's importance in my life.

[AutumnalTone]

I think I'm beginning to understand where you are. I suspect it's tied to the fact that we lack the working vocabulary to describe all of our ties to reflect their nature in a fashion that doesn't sound derogatory.

You appear to refer to your primaries as "poly relationships" to denote their importance. Your secondary relationships are different, so you don't want to use the same term for them. Am I on the right track?

And, yeah, "primary" and "secondary" just don't really seem to work for any purpose other than a clinical discussion. I think "paramour" works fine for primaries. I'm still at a loss for a suitable term for secondaries.

[MonoVCPHG]

To say that one or two of many are "poly" and the rest aren't is, well, absurd. You have many--which makes them all part of being poly--and some are closer and more intense than others.



I'm respectfully going to disagree on this point. Poly relationships are assumed to be based on a deeper emotional connection or love, which separates them from open relationships and swinging.. To say that they can be of various intensities and closeness is true, but eventually you could end up having such a lack of closeness that they are nothing more than fuck buddies. There is nothing wrong with that but I fail to see how those relationships fall under the umbrella of poly "amorous" and not just poly "sex play friends".

That doesn't mean the person isn't polyamorous but just identifies that some of their relationships are not polyamorous in nature. You could, and some people do, have poly relationships as well as casual or swing relationships.

[Mark1npt]

I agree with you in principle Mono, but unfortunately for many of the general public who think they want to be poly, they equate poly with just having many lovers, not many loves. There is indeed a difference, as you and I well know. So is our definition wrong or is the general public's wrong?

[MonoVCPHG]

I 'm not a big fan of "right or wrong" I prefer just "different" as I fear appearing judgemental. Let's just say I think the word Polyamorous is mis-used a lot in the general population and used rather loosely amongst the poly community in a lot of cases.... Doesn't make it right or wrong, I just think I have a different interpretation of what constitutes a "love" and what love is in general compared to that of a lot of the people I know.

Always respect
Take care

[Mark1npt]

I agree with you. We are right, everyone else in wrong! lol.....:)

[redpepper]

unfortunately for many of the general public who think they want to be poly, they equate poly with just having many lovers, not many loves.

I fell into this Mark...

I used "lovers" for a long time as I hadn't found Mono and was searching for him. I was fine with it at the time as it reminded me of some old lounge singer on some kind of tv documentary who is referred to as having had many "lovers"... it sounded old fashioned and independent, strong and not needy and was comfortable at the time.... having discovered that my idea of this really revolved around the independent part more than I realize... I now see the term "lovers" the same way but that I am way too much full of abandonment issues to fit my own definition (I am not empowered by it as I should be to use it). I need people and I need my two men.... having "lovers" is casual and I don't think I live up to it.... having "intimate friends" works better and denotes a need for them and their intimacy. "Poly" works for mono, my husband and I as it denotes a love that is everlasting and relates to commitment to not only me but my whole family (blood and chosen alike). Not that I don't think we can all have many things going on at once, because a lot of people do.

I think that it is useful to come to some kind of agreement with oneself and the ones I am with to come up with a definition and then to let it go before it becomes too confining. Really, no one is exactly like us ... even though i know I am right and they are wrong.... LOL heh ;)

[redpepper]

my husband just said he thinks the poly or not thing is a question of starting with romance or a good fuck. or both really I think ;)

[redpepper]

oops, am i allowed to say that on here.....???!!!!! geesh. sorry if I'm not!

[Mark1npt]

Redpepper, we all, or most of us atleast, have had many loves/lovers along the way. Just because we've had multiple lovers, I wouldn't say we're poly. However, I can see we have the same ideas and definitions of what may constitute poly for us right now further(down the road) in our unique lives. For you and yours, it has to be deeper than just lovers. Same here for me and my "life loves". (love Mono's term). I truly believe this is and can be an everlasting situation for us 3. I'm sure you do with your 2 guys also. My definition really requires that long term committment. Anything less, would be just lovers to me. I can't in good conscience ask my wife to change her life and our marriage, for just a lover. I don't know if I've said it to her in that way, but I need to.

Regarding your hubby and his thoughts, I would agree it (poly) has to get it's start somewhere. Those are certainly two very good ways! :D For me, it was developing a tremendous bond with a long term friend over 20 years, eventually moving into realizing my heart had enlarged and was certainly capable of embracing the poly life. The sexual act of making love, only sealed the deal. For others I'm sure it happens quickly. I don't know about the moderators, but I like your candor!

One last thing, my wife and my other "life love" have asked me to present them with other examples of "us", so they could see and learn how to embrace this poly life and their poly man. I keep telling them there's no situation I've come across exactly like "us". I know there must be, but it's like finding a needle in a haystack.

[MonoVCPHG]

Just because we've had multiple lovers, I wouldn't say we're poly. For you and yours, it has to be deeper than just lovers. Same here for me and my "life loves". (love Mono's term). I truly believe this is and can be an everlasting situation for us 3. I'm sure you do with your 2 guys also. My definition really requires that long term committment. Anything less, would be just lovers to me. I can't in good conscience ask my wife to change her life and our marriage, for just a lover. I don't know if I've said it to her in that way, but I need to.
.

Mark, I am going to start off by saying I am jealous of your wife and Life Love in many ways. I see you as the perfect example of a functioning and sustainable polyamorous “v” founded in deep love.

I am often frustrated at the sense I get from some people at our poly meetings that to be poly you have to be constantly open to the possibility of new relationships of varying degrees. It’s like if you aren’t available and willing to date you are not part of the club...if that's the memebership requirement, I'm out, I can't and won't do it.

If you have the ability or are in fact intimately and openly in love with more than one person you are polyamorous. It doesn’t mean that you’ll necessarily be constantly available to other poly people to “test the waters” in hopes of forming a new relationship. You may never add another Life Love to your life. That doesn’t mean you are not poly.

Being polyamorous does not mean you can’t have an extremely loving family with a defined number of loves. It is not un-polyamorous to say; “me and my two or three lovers are in a committed life long relationship”.

The commitment you have to your wife and Life Love is awe inspiring to me. You seem fulfilled and happy. I see so many others searching and searching or doing things simply because they feel it is the “Polyamorous” thing to do.

Most of the people at the poly meetings I go to seem to have this idea of not committing and “free love” justified by the word “polyamorous”. I don’t see them forming life long families the way Redpepper, her husband and me are. I once heard her say “sometimes I wish it could just be me, my husband and you”….I felt as though she thought being polyamorous meant it could never be that…like being polyamorous meant it could never be just us…that saddened me because she sounded trapped by a way of loving that is supposed to be freeing.

Her husband needs someone of value for sure, and I would love for Redpepper to get the female intimacy she wants… but I don’t see an end to the addition of new lovers almost just because "that's what poly people do"..that is not sustainable for me because I know what I put in to this, everything. I would hate to experience the introducing of new lovers just because that is how being “polyamorous” is supposed to be. Perhaps my definition and expectations of poly will be too different from thiers in the end. No fault there..just human nature:) If that's the case I will direct my love towards being the best friend thier family could wish for. Either way I want us all to be together in our old age.

I know what I can thrive, grow and stay healthy in. I stay in the moment, it is wonderful for me and our love as a family is flourishing…the future will get here when it does…hopefully we will still be chatting on this forum my friend:)

[Mark1npt]

Thanks for the kind words Mono. I hope we can sustain what seems to be a "perfect storm" of 3 very unique and loving people. I would agree with you that many poly people seem to be in a "free love" state all the time. That doesn't upset me, it's their definition of poly and that's fine. It's just not mine or yours. I know both my loves struggle daily with this concept (as they are both mono people) as you do in your situation. But as you have so eloquently stated on many occasions, your love with Redpepper and her family apparently knows no bounds anbd is so worth the struggle. Continued love, my friend. We are very lucky people to have found what we have found in our lives.

[MonoVCPHG]

That doesn't upset me, it's their definition of poly and that's fine. It's just not mine or yours. .

It doesn't upset me, Mark. It threatens me because this is the community I am struggling to be comfortable in and it is full of uncertainty. There is almost a group mentality of sexual opportunity as opposed to a group of like minded people supporting each other. I understand this is exciting for some, for me it just pushes my mono buttons LOL!

There is no uncertainty in what I feel right now, the love and commitment to Redpepper and the well being of her family...I just don't know how I will feel about some things in the future, so I am simply not going there and I have comfort in that...it is a very freeing aproach, and I want all of us to always feel free:D

I am enjoying my love for Redpepper in a completely new and often overwhelming way. There is no doubt I am happy and look forward to every second I spend with her.
Take care and thanks

[Mark1npt]

I hear what you're saying about the group mentality, Mono. I think for the most part you are right. But I think that, because I believe that most people really do just want to screw around with many sexual partners, rather than develop multiple deep loves. Mankind's been cheating on their spouses for so long, they really don't know any other way. My hope is that in a million years we will have evolved to a point of no longer having to do that, and to truly have a more loving and congenial/co-op type society as a whole. Can't believe that a straight up conservative like me is thinking like this but I am. I am evolving. Perhaps you will be similarly surprised at how you evolve over the next 20 years?

[MonoVCPHG]

There is no doubt about me evolving Mark. It's already happened and happening:) Thanks for the words of wisdom.Take care.

[MonoVCPHG]

Perhaps you will be similarly surprised at how you evolve over the next 20 years?

Where will we all be I wonder..should be an interesting journey:)

[redpepper]

I find it interesting your views on our poly meetings mono.... I find that they really are following a group mentality. we have some strong players in that group, one of which is young (25?) well... younger than us anyways, who definitely has a view of poly that is different than ours... her idea is to find more and more lovers and spend her days nursing all those relationships.... okay, she lives on a disability pension and has TIME! we all don't have, besides I wonder if she has ever experienced the all consuming nature of really being in love. I certainly have with mono to the point where the thought of being intimate with anyone else seems shocking and unnatural. even with my husband... never mind any of my other intimate friends. Her opinion has definitely influenced our group!

I think the group is going through a romance really. We all met about six months ago and kind of dated and got to know each other... now we are going through a bit of a stage where we are on the verge of branching off our attentions to individuals... I'm sure some dates have come out of it and I know some friendships have (with the possibilities of more to follow maybe?).

The BBQ we went to on Canada day (july 1st) was an example of the group dividing... we hung out, all three of us and our boy, at one of the members houses and got to know each other better as individuals. I think a division in the group is beginning by the fact that we congregate to those who we feel comfortable with too.

I'm interested to see what will come out of it all and whether or not there is a break up at the end of it and we will all go our separate ways.

I sometimes wish we didn't involve ourselves in it all as I have a very fragile heart sometimes and take things very personally when things don't work out with people. I can't seem to leave it and say "oh well" *shrug* I beat myself up about it for days and mourn. I get a great sense of loss. I sometimes think it's better to just not be involved.

I wonder too if being involved has changed our path? I don't think so but.... really, when it is just us three we do a lot better sometimes... things run more smoothly. But then again there is that dratty thing called "wanting to fit in." I want community and I want to fit in.... I am hoping to find that in our group. Not necessarily with the whole group, but with new friends made from the group....

this is all going off topic kinda.... but I believe I started this thread so.... so there! ;)

[MonoVCPHG]

[QUOTE=redpepper;2475]"wanting to fit in."
QUOTE]

I needed to modify this response:I could care less about fitting in..I just want to love you forever:) I do value what you want and need though, so it is important to me in that way, just not in any other LOL!

But it is your thread so you win regardless!!:D

[redpepper]

For me, it was developing a tremendous bond with a long term friend over 20 years, eventually moving into realizing my heart had enlarged and was certainly capable of embracing the poly life. The sexual act of making love, only sealed the deal. For others I'm sure it happens quickly.

It does happen in different ways.... for mono and I it was instant love... under a week and I broke all my poly "getting to know them" rules and my very patient husband was meeting him and faced with me wanting to stay over... wow, when I think back! what a trusting and wonderfully grounded and compersion filled man to be able to go through what he did!

With my intimate friend that I share with my husband it has been very different. We knew him before we were married and were all friends who met together. I dated his now wife for a bit and we raised our babies together. Now that they are all 6 year old babies, we have discovered it's time to achieve what we always knew would happen and that is to start a sexual relationship based on mutual interest in kink and bisexuality (well for the men anyways). We all love and care for each other deeply because of our shared history and trust in a life time friendship. The love is not as deep as I have for mono by any stretch, but it is full bodied and comfortable. It makes sense and our friendship was sealed by becoming sexual.

I have learned a great deal in the last months in regards to definitions of poly.... I think the biggest has been how much sex seals a relationship for me and how I should not take this lightly. To me the definition rides heavily on the level of commitment that comes with sharing ones body with another and respecting that commitment and the sacredness of it.... I won't be giving myself away so easily now that I am certain of poly's definition for me... my body is a mystery and is sacred. I am committing to myself that I will only share it with those that are worthy and who will respect and cherish me through their love. I have given so much under the definition of poly that is one of "free love" (swinging, open), and I am now taking back what I have given to make myself whole again. Now I am living my poly life in a new way, full of chosen family, passion, caring and commitment, and am certain that it is right for me and my loves.

[Mark1npt]

Wow Redpepper! Talk about evolving! Sounds like there have been some major changes in your thinking and loving taking place. I can't argue with them as they more closely fit my definition of poly. Maybe my defintion like Mono's is just so much more closely entwined with the "norm" we were all brought up with, than so many of the free spirited, free swinging people already entrenched in this lifestyle?

In this situation as in life we all seem to change and go our separate ways. In each stage of life we are closer to a certain group of people, circumstances change (kids stop going to scouts, etc) and we lose contact with that group as we wonder into another stage of our lives. In raising our kids I have found that to be only natural and it has occurred about 3 different times in 18 years. Perhaps your poly group or you yourselves are now entering one of those stages?

Regardless, we continue along this journey (life), we do need others to travel with, we are not good alone. We can choose who we want to travel with. So what if we choose 1 partner or 2? or for some 3? The bottom line is we have these choices. I have chosen my two. I hope they continue to choose me, too. I sincerely hope you both continue in happiness along this journey, too.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

I am often frustrated at the sense I get from some people at our poly meetings that to be poly you have to be constantly open to the possibility of new relationships of varying degrees. It’s like if you aren’t available and willing to date you are not part of the club...if that's the memebership requirement, I'm out, I can't and won't do it.


If you have the ability or are in fact intimately and openly in love with more than one person you are polyamorous. It doesn’t mean that you’ll necessarily be constantly available to other poly people to “test the waters” in hopes of forming a new relationship. You may never add another Life Love to your life. That doesn’t mean you are not poly.

In some ways it seems the Mono one seems to 'get it' almost better than the poly's...particularly in that group. Does that seem the least bit ironical to anyone else?

There's more to add....but I'm pressed on time before there's tassles and tatas.

[MonoVCPHG]

Imaginary Illusion,

Thanks for the kind words. Take care and I look forward to your expanded thoughts on this topic when time permits!

:D

[MonoVCPHG]

I don't think so but.... really, when it is just us three we do a lot better sometimes... things run more smoothly. But then again there is that dratty thing called "wanting to fit in." I want community and I want to fit in....

Seeing how we are off topic anyways:)....

I'm curious what "wanting to fit in" means. Does wanting to fit in mean conforming to what everyone else seems to be doing or expects? I have a teenage daughter and have seen her do lots of stuff just because she wanted to fit in and some of it was not actually what she wanted.

I guess I just worry that it is external pressure that shapes a lot of behaviour in any social community....even the polyamorous one LOL! I'm starting to see a lot of behaviour in our limited community that is similar to the "dreaded expectations" of monogamy; only monogamy preaches "it's not normal to have sex with others" and polyamory teaches, "it's not normal to not have sex with others".

Action based on human nature I understand. Action based on the expectations of others or a need to feel accepted by others I do not.

I believe in doing what is in your nature, not in what is natural to the people around you:) If that is what guides your path than it is right regardless of what that path leads to...following our heart is what I am thinking makes old people have no regrets.

Lots of Love Sunshine..smooch!

[Mark1npt]

Following your heart is the best advice you can give, Mono. Following others because of their expectations of you, makes you a sheep. Who wants to be a sheep?

For decades my eye was always on the future. Studying, planning, working. I missed quite a bit of life. Thank God(if you believe) for my wife and her giving me the freedom in our narriage to do many things, never once applying a stranglehold on me....and that was way before I even thought of going down the poly trail! You only get one dance. This ain't no dress rehearsal. We can't go round again. Do what you love, love the way you want. Screw the sheep! Well, er, not literally......that's a whole different community I want no part of, thank you...lol

[Derbylicious]

Since we're already quite off topic anyway...:D

This thread is a great example of why I don't like to lable myself in any specific way. Seems to me that people get themselves hung up on definitions about who they are and who other people are rather than just living their life with what feels right. I don't think that I can fit who I am into a neat little box that will sum up who I am and how I relate to others. Part of the reason I don't like labeling myself in any particular way is that to do it I might have to solidify myself into that definition forever. I've found over the past few years that who I am is more fluid than I had expected.

I'm hoping that this doesn't sound like an attack on anyone. It's just my thoughts after reading the last 4 pages. Carry on with the topic...or should I say off topic :)

[MonoVCPHG]

Following your heart is the best advice you can give,

Break through!! Thanks Mark:) Now let me explain.

There is three parts to this equation for me; family and community, and priority.

a) How do you interact with your community? Is it based on following your heart or is it based on the community’s expectations in order to feel accepted.

b) How do you build your family? Is it by following your heart or shaped by the expectations of the community you want to be a part of.

c) If there is a conflict between family and community which inevitably will take priority if you follow your heart. Which will be sustainable and fulfilling.

If you follow your heart and find joy in life to it's fullest than I feel you have been true to yourself and everyone around you. This is not a question of right or wrong, but of what is right for each individual...there is no bad in that, no loss, just acceptance and self-awareness!

WOW! I find this topic very exciting although probably still off topic...Sorry Redpepper, can you forgive me:o

[MonoVCPHG]

I'm hoping that this doesn't sound like an attack on anyone. It's just my thoughts after reading the last 4 pages.

No attack at all Derby! Labels can be limiting and also at times lead to misunderstanding based on the definition by each person. Great thoughts:D

Take Care:)

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Ok...back to finishing my thoughts,

I find it interesting your views on our poly meetings mono.... I find that they really are following a group mentality. we have some strong players in that group,
Yes. Yes we do...and they are very vocal and take a lot of air time during discussions. But just because someone's loud, doesn't mean they're right...or that there isn't other views. When it's the only view being expressed, others who agree will feel more comfortable about speaking up in agreement. They also claim some experience in poly so I think some newer people in the community will tend to defer to them.
That doesn't mean there aren't other opinions...they're just probably held by those who aren't as vocal at the meetings.



I wonder if she has ever experienced the all consuming nature of really being in love. I certainly have with mono to the point where the thought of being intimate with anyone else seems shocking and unnatural. even with my husband... never mind any of my other intimate friends. Her opinion has definitely influenced our group!

She may...she may not. She's also young and has time. There's plenty of people who experience love and relationships in different ways...and it doesn't matter if we're talking about poly or mono circles.
Some people fall hard, fast, and repeatedly with different people all the time...dumping the current whenever they start getting too comfortable. Similar thing with NRE junkies. Some people prefer the slow burning match...some it depends on the circumstance and the people involved. As I think came up in discussion, it can also depend on age, or more importantly, the stage of one's life that they're in. That is very apparent when watching friends who are cronic NRE junkies, serial monogamists, and flash in the pan types who later in life decide to settle down for long term commitment...and many of them seem to have a hard time adjusting to the change. It's not what they're used to.
I guess the overall point of this is...my love, isn't going to be the same as your love. And it doesn't need to be.


I think the group is going through a romance really. We all met about six months ago and kind of dated and got to know each other... now we are going through a bit of a stage where we are on the verge of branching off our attentions to individuals... I'm sure some dates have come out of it and I know some friendships have (with the possibilities of more to follow maybe?).

I'm hoping the group NRE doesn't wear off too soon....we just got there! :eek:


I wonder too if being involved has changed our path? I don't think so but.... really, when it is just us three we do a lot better sometimes... things run more smoothly. But then again there is that dratty thing called "wanting to fit in." I want community and I want to fit in.... I am hoping to find that in our group. Not necessarily with the whole group, but with new friends made from the group....

Community kind of requires involvement, or it ceases to be a community. The upshot of that particular community is that it's small enough that you don't need to fit into it...because the other option is to mold it to fit you. Yes, there's strong personalities with their own very vocal views there. That simply may mean that those of us with a slightly different take on things will have to make sure to share our view as well. It's shouldn't be about group think...especially since as you say, the always-on-free-love life of the 60's is not for everyone....(I'd actually be interested to see if that attitude is as prevalent in other cities, or if it's a side effect of this particular city's old 60's burnout population) If you have your poly way, you should be able to share it as well. Once other voices are heard...you may find that you're not as alone in your thoughts as you might think.

I'm sincerely hoping that the group doesn't start breaking up and going it's seperate ways...since that would defeat the purpose of the community. I expect some people will come and go, as they move past the 101 stage. But overall, I'd much prefer the community to stay large, vibrant, and accepting so that others can find the information they're looking for when they decide it's time to look into Poly. It took years for the group to come along...and months before we could attend. I'd hate to think others should miss out on entirely.

My Poly, isn't going to be the same as your Poly. And it doesn't need to be.
But we better be able to talk about it...

[Mark1npt]

Nothing wrong with it Licious....sort of like following your heart......

[MonoVCPHG]

My Poly, isn't going to be the same as your Poly. And it doesn't need to be.
But we better be able to talk about it...

Beautifully put my friend!

Although there is another option; staying on the outside and focussing on what is real and healthy for each individual during the moment. I don't necessarily think this requires community involvement especially if it will affect the love you have for someone. Family involvement is another thing for sure. I just see family as a much smaller scale thing with much bigger long term impact.

I personally feel like a community of one in many ways although there is no loneliness in this. I understand it places limits on those that chose this path and I am not saying I am choosing this, but rarely do we get everything we want. Again it is about following your heart for sure.
I’ll be around to talk. I just might not actually talk!

Take care my friend.

[Mark1npt]

Bottom line is we all have to live and do what works for us, and as others have said there is no right, no wrong. Regardless of our definition of poly, we all realize that love is the key ingredient in our lives. No recipe can survive without it.

[MonoVCPHG]

love is the key ingredient in our lives. No recipe can survive without it.

:D And I have unlimited love for Redpepper and her family..Just a matter of seeing how the ingredients end up mixing:)

[MonoVCPHG]

After I suffered a minor melt down, Redpepper and I had a nice long and at first heated conversation about my issues with community involvement.
The solution was in defining what our poly meant. We both want the same thing but I was incapable of seeing any future because I couldn't communicate my own needs to give myself to it. I felt selfish in voicing what I wanted to determine how our future would look. A future that involved security within the poly community.

We now know what our poly is and are flourishing, in love, and so excited to be on track. ...what a huge gift she is to me:D

[ImaginaryIllusion]

The solution was in defining what our poly meant. We both want the same thing but I was incapable of seeing any future because I couldn't communicate my own needs to give myself to it. I felt selfish in voicing what I wanted to determine how our future would look. A future that involved security within the poly community.


I'm not sure if it's part of social conditioning of males, or perhaps the monogmous scripts, but I think I came across a similar difficulty in communications, and feelings of selfishness in asking for things which would conventionally be regarded as wrong. My wife and I are usually really good at communication, but in this case it took a lot more effort to push the conversation outside the normal comfort zone...but sometimes I guess that's where it needs to go.

WRT the poly community, I'm wondering what you mean by security ...

Anyways, it sounds like things are working for you...which is fantastic. It sounds like you were able to find a common frame of reference to build a shared vision of what you want. It's almost like some threads on this board are producing tangible benefits.

(btw...did anyone else see Mono refer to poly in the possessive?) ;)

[MonoVCPHG]

but I think I came across a similar difficulty in communications, and feelings of selfishness in asking for things which would conventionally be regarded as wrong.
(btw...did anyone else see Mono refer to poly in the possessive?) ;)

:)Just to be clear, I was not asking for anything that would be considered even remotely traditionally wrong LOL! I hope my statement wasn't taken as asking for anything that would go against my monogamous nature...I am hopelessly monogamous and very comfortable in that...I don't want to be anything else. I like being me.

Not to repeat myself, I fully identify Redpepper and my relationship as distinctly mono/poly. I am in a poly relationship though and therefore yes I referred to it as "our" poly...you got me:D

As far as what security within the community meant, Redpepper and me know what the basis for that is. That is something she can share if she chooses...I am just happy to be able to move on, forward, and towards a long loving and family filled future:)

[Mark1npt]

Gotta love the communication, boys. Way to go Mono......proud of you!

[MonoVCPHG]

Thanks Mark..but I'm more proud of Redpepper for putting up with me and knowing when to push a little:)
Take care my friend!

[ImaginaryIllusion]

:)Just to be clear, I was not asking for anything that would be considered even remotely traditionally wrong LOL! I hope my statement wasn't taken as asking for anything that would go against my monogamous nature...

Not at all Mono...I was referencing my own example.

[MonoVCPHG]

Whew! Cool my friend...see you around:)

[redpepper]

wow! I have so much to say but if I say it all now I won't get any sleep.... it took me an hour to wade through all that has been said.... I can't keep up with you all! :) doing my best here.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

wow! I have so much to say but if I say it all now I won't get any sleep....

That's ok....sleep is for the weak! :D

[DestinyWaits]

I will say that my defintion of poly, or as I explained it to my 15yr old when he asked me, is being in a relationship with more than one person and it being an exclusive relationship, to me anything else is swinging but that is just my definition, yours may be different. When my husband and I find a partner we like we are exclusive with her and see no one else nor does she, we are a triad and a family. I know not all poly relationships are this way but this is our way, we do have friends who are in a polyrelationship and the wife has different "lovers" while her husband is content to just being with her and letting her be who and what she is, it works for them and they are happy...I say to each their own!! Live as you see fit to make you happy!

[tigrrrlily]

I tend to see "poly" as living a lifestyle where a person may desire loving many people with knowledge and consent of all people. So in the case where the partners do not love the people they are intimate with, I would consider them swingers. If a person is single, I consider them poly if they are willing to be involved in a poly relationship (just like someone can be a gay virgin).

Ultimately, there are two reasons for labels. One is to help identify others in a consistent manner (like for sociological research) and the others is to identify yourself as how you see yourself. So if anyone self-labels as anything, I go with that since they are trying to explain something about themselves. However, if we are talking statistics, I like a consistent label.

I like how quath sees this but i'd add that labelling OURSELVES by our sexual practices (which may, in any case, change over time) is kinda limiting. I prefer to think of it as having/doing poly relations.

I think, redpepper, that what's hassling you is not what is poly but what is a relationship. Maybe particularly whether sex = relationship.

[MonoVCPHG]

I cut this from another thread because I think it relates.

Originally Posted by ImaginaryIllusion
The thing I like about poly so far, is that it takes up a really large chunk of that spectrum...so there's a lot of flexibility in how you want to live it...should you choose to do so. The only real requirements are more than one person, and some form love/relationship.

My comment
Personally, from what I have seen, the word "polyamory" is used so broadly I feel it has lost a lot of validity for me. This isn't a negative statement, just a case of perceived vagueness and a simple disinterest in using the word because it doesn't really define anything for me besides being non-monogamous. Part of it is the idea of someone "choosing" to be polyamorous. To me it would be the same as "choosing " to be gay. I think polyamory is a "nature" thing, not a learned behavior....but this is only my opinion. The other part is how unclear the concept of "love" is when used in poly relationships. I feel it is some times used just to take a moral step up from the concept of swinging or open relationships; not that one is needed, there is nothing immoral about either.

I think I will probably avoid the word when explaining my relationship to mono friends in the future except if needed to separate what I have from polygamy. The word is simply too hard to explain because the forms it takes are seemingly limitless. Describing the dynamic within my relationship is easier.