Accidentally Poly - The Karma Story.

[Karma]

So, where to start....

I never intended to be polyamorous. I guess that's a good place :)

I've been with Mohegan for 8 years now, married for 4. Our relationship has been something of a rollercoaster, as far as things like health, housing, and jobs go, but we've managed to hang on to each other in spite of all the crazy thrown our way... and in spite of me making some stupid decisions :)

I guess I should have figured out a long time ago that I was Poly, but the thought never occured to me. I was dating a girl when I was sixteen, and she called me up one day to tell me that she had kissed another guy the night before. I wasn't mad at all about the kissing, I was mad because now we 'had to' break up, because she had cheated on me and that's what was expected. I didn't think this was very fair, but I wasn't too sure what to do about it at the time. Later on in life, when I met Mohegan, I was dating a girl who is still a friend of mine today. I knew I had feelings for both of them, but wasn't sure what to do about it. My girlfriend encouraged me to pursue Mohegan, telling me that we'd still be friends, but that I'd regret it if I didn't.

Wow, was she right :)

Fast forward another 8 years or so. Mohegan and I were in a bad spot in a lot of ways. Our relationship was basically stagnating because of her health issues. We were no longer a couple, as muc has two people co-habitating. Add to this the fact that we were in a strage state that neither of us knew very well, with new people, and both of us were tackling college at the same time. This is a bad recipe if you're trying to fix a floundering relationship.

I decided to find Something Else (IE cute college girls) to fill the gaps in my life, primarily the sexual ones. This was not a smart plan, but I wasn't sure what else to do. Neither Mohegan or I were really communicating with each other, and I figured that what she didn't know wouldn't hurt her.

Dumb idea, by the way :)

So, I had a string of 4 girls that I slept with behind her back. I enjoyed their company, but they were not much more than aquaintances, on an emotional level. I was completely OK with that - I informed every one of them exactly what I was doing, that my wife did not know, and that this was sex and only sex. No hurt feelings, no leading anyone on.

Then I met my current girlfriend.

I had no intention for her to be any different than any of the other flings I had up to this point. She had no intention of getting attached, either. Instead of sticking to a well-established plan we had both laid out, we fell fast and hard for each other. I am terrified of this, but I tell her how I feel. She told me she felt the same way......

...and it was only supposed to be a fling!! :)

So at this point, I'm beating the crap out of myself mentally. I mean, how could I be in love with two women at the same time? People just don't do that!! :D I spent a few months in limbo trying to deal with this. Finally, I came clean with Mohegan - after someone sent her a letter telling her that I'd been cheating on her all this time - about my girlfriend. It took forever for me to get over the fear that she would leave me, so I told her things in stages, little bite sized chunks that my brain could handle letting go of.

She was pissed. Not really about the cheating, but about the fact that I'd lied to her about it all. I hurt her pretty bad, and our marriage was on rocky ground for awhile.

Interestingly enough, when I told her that I was in love with another woman, she told me that I was an idiot for thinking that being married meant that I could only love one woman. She was far more accepting of this part of myself than I had been. I love that wife of mine, she's freakin amazing! :)

About a week after she found out about all the cheating I had done. Mohegan and I had a no-holds-barred discussion about our marriage. The only rules were no yelling, no interrupting, and no lying. It was tough on both of us... but we made it through, and I think our marriage is stronger now than it ever was, because that's the night we decided to really start communicating everything to each other.

As for my girlfriend... she's young, still learning a lot about herself, and carrying serious psychological damage from an ex that...... did something to her that I can't forgive any man for doing to a woman, and almost choked her to death in the process. She's struggling to break out of old patterns and thought processes, and I see an incredible, strong person underneath all the scars and fear. I love her fiercely, and I'm trying to let help her heal, and at the same time give her room to learn about who she is. She's made mistakes, and they hurt me, but not as much as they hurt her. I expect her to make mistakes though - how else do we learn?

So, yeah, I guess I'm 'accidentally' poly. :) I didn't go looking for this, but I can't deny that I'm completely in love with two women who are both amazing in their own unique ways, and also in many of the same ways. It's been confusing and crazy, but I can't really complain about where I'm at currently.

Just as long as we remember to communicate, and to learn from our mistakes, I think we'll all be OK.

[HappiestManAlive]

That's a lovely story, really. My favorite kind of poly story, lol - people cheat and learn that the other wouldn't have minded if they'd been honest and they finally get communication open and the relationship comes out stronger than ever and they go on their way with a new significant other or two or ten...

I realize of course that there's much, MUCH more to it, but if there were various poly fairly tales, that one would be my favorite. It just strikes a chord with me. :)

[Morningglory629]

Thank you for sharing that part of your story Karma. It is unnerving and exciting to figure yourself out finally. Realizations and epiphanies and new connections/reconnections and learning. It is a cool ride!

Quick questions for ya...I could probably go thru the other threads but I am waaaaay too lazy this weekend- was Mohegan poly before you? If so, why in the hell did you need to keep everything a secret? Just curious, not judging, I always wonder how things evolve or reveal themselves in relationships. Did you have cause to think you needed to cheat?

[Karma]

No, she was not. Well, at least not in practice - possibly in thought, but I think that both of us fall under that category. She'll have to answer fthat to be certain, though.

As to why I felt the need to cheat... I had thought that it was simply the need to get laid, as Mohegan's medical conditions make sex dificult at times. But I'm not so sure anymore. Mohegan's Wife and I were talking about a month ago, and she remarked that I tended to stray when I wasn't "feeling acknowledged". I didn't really give it much thought at the time, but right now, even though my gf and I aren't sleeping together, I just don't feel the need to cheat. Mohegan and I are doing great, relationship-wise. The gf and I are working on developing a real relationship instead of all the hiding and sneaking around we were doing (I HATE hiding someone that I care about from the world) as well as her issues from her past, and I guess that I have an over-abundance of "feeling acknowledged" from the two of them. :D

[Mohegan]

Quick questions for ya...I could probably go thru the other threads but I am waaaaay too lazy this weekend- was Mohegan poly before you? If so, why in the hell did you need to keep everything a secret? Just curious, not judging, I always wonder how things evolve or reveal themselves in relationships. Did you have cause to think you needed to cheat?

I was and I wasn't. I didn't really know that was a possibility. I met Karma when I was 19. At the time I had a string of one night stands and friends with benefits b/c I was interested in spending time with a lot of them, I cared a great deal for them, but didn't think I could commit to just one. When I met Karma I pushed for him to break up with his g/f because I felt that's what "had" to happen. I didn't really care, well maybe I did a bit, I wish I could go back and analyze those feelings with the knowledge I have now.

So anyway, at one point we had an open relationship, but then I got pretty sick with female issues and was affraid he'd leave so I did what made sense to me, take away the competition and the temptation so he won't leave. I clung and I clung hard, and then the string of cheating started.

So the more he cheated, the less I trusted. Everytime I started to trust again to be able to say lets try that again, he'd cheat again. I couldn't trust in the strength of what we had, b/c of all the lies, so I couldn't be okay with an open relationship.

There were a few guys, that had I known more and been in a different frame of mind, I prolly would have been polly earlier. Where Karma and I are now, had we had this openness years ago, things would have been different. But we live and learn.

I love my husband, but I know I can love others. Proven by my wife. So if someone comes along, I guess we'll see how it goes.

[Karma]

Got back from the Ohio trip last night.... ugh. We packed up and left Mohegan's parents house at 8 AM. We didn't get home until 10:30 PM.

I hate Pennsylvania. I think the whole damn state is constantly under construction, and no one who lives there drives anything but semis. Add in nasty, vicious cops and a speed limit that never goes over 55 mph.... it's the worst place ever for someone like me to drive.

The trip was kinda so-so. Got to unexpectly catch up with the ex who told me to pursue Mohegan 8 years ago, which was really cool. Talked one of my friends out of doing something that would have cost him his job and gotten him arrested, which was REALLY cool. Got to check out another friend's new deli/sub shop, he's making a killing but working his butt off, but the shop is amazing.

The rest of the trip was really boring, though.

Avoided dealing with my crazy family entirely. I am done being the parent to a 60 year old man, his 49 year old wife, and their two sons. If they can't handle life at this point, they'll never be able to, and that just isn't my problem anymore. My little brother got 2 years probation - so it didn't turn out too badly for him anyway. I really wasn't needed.

Mohegan wants to go back in six weeks for The Most Boring Wedding Of All Time. (Yes, that's a proper noun :D) I'm trying to convince her any way I can to just leave me here, but I doubt that it'll happen - I don't think she can make the drive by herself.

So yeah, I'm stuck going to the wedding of The Pretty Pretty Princess, who is probably the last person I'd be willing to spend any time with under normal circumstances.

I'm gonna need a lot of scotch for this...

[Karma]

Went out and fought at Darkon (the medeval re-enactment thing I do) today for the first time in almost three months, in nearly 100 degree weather. It felt really good, in spite of the oppressive heat. My old fighting partner moved back home from Chicago about a week ago, and we tore the field up together like we used to. Our baca-saito (idiot student for those who don't speak japanese) made us both proud today, and saved both of our asses quite a few times. All in all we were a dominating force - and kicking ass for the win is always fun, regardless of how much sweat you loose in the process :D

Got home to find dinner already on the stove -Awesome- and ate like a king. Now I'm gonna go spend some... ahem... "Quality Personal Time" with Mohegan, and loose some more sweat :D

I'd call this day a good one.


EDIT FOR MONDAY MORNING:

Oh my God, am I sore!! :)

[Karma]

Bruises have finally started surfacing from Sunday. I've got a nice purple one on the right side of the pelvic bone, and some nasty yellow-green ones on the underside of my right bicep (my sword arm, the underside takes some abuse :) ).

Spent most of today with the gf, after cleaning up with Mohegan. My living room is looking like a living room again, finally. Took gf out to a sushi place for dinner, treated her like a lady - holding doors, pulling out chairs, ect. - she tried to pay for her dinner!! Absurd :) I was having none of that, and she didn't argue too much. I think she secretly likes being pampered. :D

Her other boyfriend called midway through diner, asked if he could see her, since he'd been out of state all weekend. Even though it was "my" Wednesday with her, they hadn't seen each other in forever, and he was all respectful and stuff when he asked, so I was cool with it. We hung out on her back deck for awhile, just catching up and smoking. He even brought me a gift - not too sure what to make of that. He and I used to be friends awhile back.... is this a peace offering of sorts? What if I'm not ready to make peace just yet? What if I'm just being polite for her sake?

What if I'm not?

So not used to being the forgiving type, but I'm just not as angry with him as I was. He's the one who told Mohegan about me having cheated on her. I'd be OK with this, if he had done it for Mohegan's sake, but he didn't - he did it to try push me out of GFs life. He failed. Now he wants to apologize and make peace?

Not too sure what to make of this. Including my lack of anger.... confusing.

[Mohegan]

I think it may have something to do with your love for g/f. I still can't stand him and see no redeeming qualities. But that's me. I've been a lot more forgiving and understanding of g/f because you love her. I hold hope that I'll eventualy see the reasons you love her. I getting there faster than I imagined. I think it may be the same for you and him. Because you love her, you're trying to see him through her eyes. It's hard to remember why you dislike someone when they are killing you with kindness. Maybe he is changing. Maybe he was so lost in love that the only way he knew to try and keep her was to be all crazy psycho stalker freak, or maybe that's just who he is and right now he doesn't have to show it.

I'm glad you were the better man and let him invade your time. It shows her you're trying to be attentive to the needs of the group as a whole and not being selfish, as he is.

You're lack of anger comes from realizing he's not a threat. It's not oooo you're the big bad, it's that, you don't have to compete the way he does. You don't have to put on the big shows he does. She loves you for you and you recognize that.

[FireChild]

Your wife is wise.

Y'all's story is really interesting. Thanks for sharing!

[Mohegan]

Your wife is wise.

Y'all's story is really interesting. Thanks for sharing!

Awww Thanks, lots of hard lessons behind that wisdom. But I've always felt if I've learned something, it was worth living through.

[Karma]

Been awhile since I was on here, at least on my own blog.

Things with the GF's other men have been relatively taken care of - the one we were all worried about is no longer in her life (and posibly not in mine, turns out he wasn't quite as good a friend as I thought he was.)

And the other..... it's wierd, but I guess in a good way. Last weekend was his weekend with her, and he pretty much got screwed out of it by her familial obligations. I actually felt bad about it, so much so that I called them earlier to make sure that they had gotten together today (she's spending yesterday until Friday with him) without anything getting in the way. I was actually going to offer to go pick her up and drop her off at his place, if neccessary.

Wierdness. Still upset with the guy for the crap he pulled with me and Mohegan, still kinda concerned about how attached he is to her in some ways... but it bugs me if they don't get time together now. Not sure what to make of that.

[Mohegan]

Just wanted to say happy mini Anniversary. Today is Friday the 13th in case you didn't know. Thank you for sticking it out with me. For patience. For honestly. For love. For snoogles. And for spending the day cleaning. I can honestly say I love you more now then that cold Friday the 13th in Jan '06 when I promised for better or worse. I love discovering those betters as we walk out of the worse holding hands.

[Karma]

Confused, greatly.

Two weeks or so ago, Mohegan told me that I needed to be more affectionate with the the GF around her. OK, I thought, I can do that. So, tonight, she tells me that seeing us curl up together in the living room to go to sleep hurts her.

What?

So what exactly am I supposed to be doing, then? GF and I have stayed up prety much the whole night because I can't sleep, partially because sleeping in the living room is... inconvienient (the couch kills her hips and my back, and the papazan is big enough for one, we found out), but mainly because my mind wouldn't stop racing, and she can't sleep if I can't. I feel like no matter what I do, I'm doing the wrong thing. I feel like the only way to fix it and make Mohegan happy is to leave GF. And no, she hasn't asked me to do that, and I don't think she would. I just don't understand any other way to stop hurting her at this point, aside from showing no affection at all towards GF.

I have no idea why things suddenly changed. We just went from spending an entire week together and her being totally OK with GF spending the night over here and being affectionate with me to this. Did I do something wrong? Did I not do something right? I don't know.

I have no idea what to do.

[Mohegan]

Nothing changed. I told you then as I told you last night...yes it hurts, but it is something I need to deal with and I am not going to deal with it if I don't see it. No I'm not going to ask you to leave her, because I don't want you to. But just a thought, I was up all night, bedroom door open and light on. If it was bothering you that much, maybe you should come and talked to me. You wanted me to be open with you and tell you were I was. I was hurting and I told you that. What do you want from me? I avoided telling you b/c I knew it would upset you, and that upset you as well. I don't have the answers or the understanding of where it is coming from, so all I can do is tell you how I am feeling. If someone else has an idea, as I posted on my blog, I am all for hearing it, cuz I'm at a loss for answers.

BTW, we do have an airmatress unless you lost it at campout. It was brand new and I haven't seen it since the last one, so it may make sleeping a bit easier, if you know where it is, just a thought.

[Karma]

Apparently, sex is The Great Catalyst for having the mother of all introspective conversations :)

Mohegan and I... well, let's just say we had a VERY good night last night :D. So, after we have collapsed beside each other, she askes me if I'm OK with the fact that it may take a long while for her to get the extra weight off.

I smell a trap ;)

Generally, Mohegan does not "ask" things like this, she explains the realities of the situation she is currently in. However , this week has been kinda bad for her, due to injuring her chronically-damaged knee. This led to a near giving-up on weight loss, at least in her brain, and then, after bingeing on cookies she made for me, she got herself nominally together.

I explained to her that we need to treat her knee and ankle like the chronically damaged body parts that they are.... that they would never be the same again, because of what Ballet had done to her body....

.... and she just went to pieces on me.

So, it turns out that she's been carrying this dream of being a choreographer for broadway since she was like, 13. She never told me, not once. She kinda knew that it would never happen, but still held onto it. And I, not knowing any better, shoved reality right down her throat. :(

I kinda understand why she never told me about it. I've said for years that (gods forbid) if I have daughters, they will NEVER do Ballet. Other dance, sure. Sports, school band, drama club, martial arts, that's all good. But I have NEVER seen something as completely destructive, both physically and emotionally, and Ballet. There is no respect for the dancer at all. Between stories from her about her instructors stepping on her knees so she would have the 'perfect silohette', to stories from my GF (another Ballet daner) about how one of the girls she danced with put shards of broken glass in the toe shoes of another girl to destroy her career, simply because she danced better..... no, No, HELL NO, my daughters will not do that. I'd much rather they get a broken nose in some martial arts class, or become cheerleaders (gag, but if that's what they want...), or whatever.

Yeah, with an outlook like that, no wonder she never told me about her dream, right?

So, I'm left with this accidentally broken Mohegan, lots of Mohegan tears, and a whole lot of guilt for, as I percieve it, causing this by shoving reality down her throat.

But, as we slowly started putting things together and picking up the pieces, it turned out to be one of the best - and most needed - conversations we've ever had. We got to analyse all sorts of things about each other. I'm glad we had sex BEFORE the three hours of deep, deep mutual self analysis, but I'm also really glad we spent the next three hours in conversation. We unburied a lot of things. Now we get to work on setting them right.

But, the first step to fixing something is knowing that it's broken, right? One step at a time :)

[Mohegan]

I love you. I am so freaking lucky. Thank you for last night. I have told you about my little dream, but I've known it would never happen, so I never made a big deal out of it. I knew it wouldn't happen the day I was diagnosed with fibro, the day I realized the exhaustion and the pain wouldn't go away with medicine. I guess I just never let myself "deal" with the fall out from that. But you were amazing with how you said things and the questions you asked. I needed that reality shoved in my face. So thanks babe, and thanks for the help you've promised. It means a lot.

[Karma]

Went out to visit a few friends tonight. Mohegan had a conversation with the female (they're a couple), and they came to the conclusion that they don't like my GF because of "the vibe they get from her".

What The Fuck!??!

If I actually understand things correctly, the friend actually said that she doesn't know why she doesn't like my GF, but that she isn't welcome in her home. What the hell is this? How do you dislike someone that much, when you can blatantly say that you don't know why you don't like them?

So now Mohegan can't tell me why she doesn't like my GF, other than she "doesn't like the vibe she gets from her", and that "she sets me on edge when she's around".

I asked Mohegan what GFs done wrong. She didn't give me an answer.

Makes me wonder if she/they do have a reason, and just dont want to tell me what it is. Honestly, I thought Mohegan and I were past bullshit like that, but nothing else makes any sense to me. If that isn't the case, then I'm just supposed to accept the fact that my GF has done something to be hated, just by existing. Or, in my opinion, because she's a part of my life. Honestly, I think that's the reason they "don't like her" for "no reason".

Fuck this. I'm all for working out problems, talking things through, seeing things from the other perspective, ect. I've tried everything I know how to, to work this out. No matter what I do, what 'revelation' we come to, there's always some new thing that comes up, some new bullshit problem that wasn't there before, that I need to 'understand' and 'consider'. Now, there's no excuse that can be thrown my way, there's just naked, reasonless dislike being thown around at someone I love, who hasn't done anything wrong.

I'm done playing nice, and I'm done not defending her.

[Mohegan]

I just wanted to thank you for your love and support. I think I've had a bit of breakthrough tonight, and it's because of you. I think part of the problem has been my fear, irrational as it may be, that this was a one sided thing. That if I did start seeing someone, things with us would get bad. You're support helping me with the OKC account and screening people showed me that isn't the case. I guess I felt in the past, that if we did it together, it wouldn't take anything away from us. But I'm begining to see what it can offer us. How it can broaden our relationship, not take away from us. I'm still working it all out, but another baby step forward has been made. I'm still not sure about how I feel about g/f, but I'm pretty sure of how I feel about the two of you together. Not saying I won't backslide again, but I hope not. We just need to keep talking and communicating. Finding other things to fill my time, has been a huge help. I just got so stuck on this is a problem and I must find the solution, that I lost track of everything else. Without you pushing me, I'd still be walking in circles. I didn't see how getting out and doing something else would help me solve the problem. But it gave my brain a rest and chance to put pieces together and put things in perspective. I love you. I am so greatful for the way you get me, for your patience, support and love. You're my world monkey love,I'm so glad we decided to make this work, instead of giving up on it. Thank you!

[Mohegan]

4 months ago I was planning our divorce, while trying to figure out how to save us. It's been a rough road. But tonight, I see a future. We haven't just saved our marriage, you've helped save me. Thank you for pulling me out of the caverns of my own mind. For stopping my downward spiral. For showing me the strength I lost. I feel like I've been my most vulnerable in the last few months, and yet again you've proven to me that you're here, and you love me, and we're strong enough to fight whatever comes across our path. I'm sitting here tonight and for the first time in a long time, I'm not counting down the hours til you're home. I'm not wondering what you're doing. Yes I miss you, and I miss our time together, but I'm happy that you're happy. I've had my first real glimpse of compersion. And it's thanks to you, and your amazing ability to hold a mirror in front of my face and forcing me to see the reality, without me even realizing it. I love you so much. And I am so glad I didn't pack everything up and leave. I am so glad that I was still here when you came home that night 4 months ago. I'm glad we had our night of honesty. I'm glad we communicate so much now that we interupt our favorite tv show to talk. I'm glad we're the "lucky ones".

[Cricket]

Went out to visit a few friends tonight. Mohegan had a conversation with the female (they're a couple), and they came to the conclusion that they don't like my GF because of "the vibe they get from her".

What The Fuck!??!

If I actually understand things correctly, the friend actually said that she doesn't know why she doesn't like my GF, but that she isn't welcome in her home. What the hell is this? How do you dislike someone that much, when you can blatantly say that you don't know why you don't like them?

So now Mohegan can't tell me why she doesn't like my GF, other than she "doesn't like the vibe she gets from her", and that "she sets me on edge when she's around".

This isn't the first time women have just developed an inexplicable distaste for me. I'm not a loner by choice, dear, I'm a loner because at least a quarter of the women I meet are put off by me - and can't explain why.

After awhile, you get tired of it, and stop bending over backwards to present yourself as a good person to those who you upset, if they can't tell you why. To a degree, that may be what happened with Mohegan and I. That's definitely what happened with your friend.
She gave me that look of mild confusion mixed with discomfort that I've come to recognize, and I stopped trying to be her buddy. The same goes for a lot of the Darkonian women.
There's also the awkwardness of her man's opinion of me, and that alone would be reason enough for her and I to have....issues.

[Mohegan]

I just wanted to say thank you. You being willing to sit down with my brother and SIL and have that talk meant the world to me. And seeing you willingly spend time with them, is beyond words.

My parents are whatever. My brother is my best friend. Seeing you guys gettng along, gives me hope that at least Cricket will get to meet them, be accepted and we can all be a family. A lot of that has to do with you and how you handled things.

I don't know how it's possible. But I love you more now, than I did two days ago.

And I'm looking forward to the future.

[Karma]

Been awhile since I've been on here.

I'm trying to change something about my mindset that has plagues me for as long as I can remember, and I really don't know how to do it. It seems that, no matter where I set my goals in life as far as anything having to do with an occupation or career go, I always see only the negatives. I automatically start looking for the reasons that "this will suck" and fixate only on them. This is, largely, because I have never seen anything to lead me to believe that the idea of a job that doesn't make you fucking miserable is anything more than a myth - I grew up in an environment of alternating unemployment and misery taken out on me when working (my stepdad) and total unemployment (my mom). Subsequently, I have never had a job that I either didn't completely hate, or that something didn't suddenly change one day to make it something I hated. Add to this the fact that I've changed my major three times in as many years because nothing is ever what it seems to be once I get started taking classes on it... I have myself convinced that I will forever be forced to choose between either 40 hours a week of misery, or unemployment. Part of this is that I absolutely can not stand taking orders from someone who is incompetent at their job, which sums up 90% of my work experience. I see it partially as common sense, and partially as giving someone respect and power over me when they have no busniess recieving either.

Power.... that's a huge part of the issue right there. I have huge issues with someone thinking that they have any kind of power over me. I can't help think that most of my bosses/managers have had a sort of "that's right bitch, you'll do it because I said so" kind of mentality, and I REFUSE to be said bitch. I can't even really articulate why I feel this way, or if said impression is an accurate one. I have walked out of several jobs because I simply wouldn't deal with one more snide comment or power play from an employer - I'd rather be unemployed than take someone's shit, essentially, even if I end up homeless because of it.

This would be fine and acceptable, if I was the only person depending on me to bring in a paycheck. But, I have Mo to consider, as well as Cricket to a lesser degree (she's not dependant on me, but I'm willing to bet that she's like it if her boyfriend could afford to take her somewhere nice once in awhile).

Combine this with the fact that the last two majors I studied, I ended up simply not going to classes because I found out that most of what those jobs required violated my principles on a fundamental level or simply required me to deal with blindingly stupid, spoiled rich kids on a regular basis.... I end up sacrificing practicallity for principle on a regular basis. And I am, very much so, a man of my (somewhat skewed) principles.

Dealing with that is bad enough. But now, it's gotten to the point that I am convincing myself that I am going to hate my current major because "it's not going to be what I think it is", or "I'll have to take someone treating me like shit", or... insert some other random point of negativity here. And not only am I studying something I love (electronics), but I haven't even started classes yet!!

FUCK THIS!!!

It's completely unrealistic and irrational, but I have no idea how to NOT be this way. After a long talk with Mo tonight, I've come to the conclusion that I am like this because I've never seen anything work out right. Things always happen that end up making something that seemed good at the time, end up being something I can't stand being a part of. It stretches beyond employment, at this stage - I automatically think everything is going to fail. If something isn't going EXACTLY PERFECT with Cricket, for example, I start questioning what's wrong, does she want to break up for some reason, am I doing something that's driving her away, ect. ect. ect.

I've come to realize that this mentality is one of the reasons I decided to have an affair with her behind Mo's back in the first place - after all, 'Mo will never be okay or accepting of this, and we'll never fix our issues, so I just need to deal with them'. But I wasn't willing to walk away from what Cricket and I had...

If you've been reading this blog for awhile, you know how that turned out :) I'm here on a poly board for a reason, after all.

It seems that my one big hobby/obsession - Darkon - is where none of that applies. When I take the field with my boys (and girls), I KNOW that what I do will work. I've SEEN it work. I am a totally different person when I'm fighting. ANd I realized, after thinking it through, that it's not limited to just Darkon, but fighting in general. I grew up in martial arts and getting into fist fights all the time. I LOVE to fight, not because I like to hurt people, but because it's one of the only times I feel completely, totally confident that nothing will go wrong that I can't handle. I mean, I've already been pistol whipped, shot, hit with bats, jumped by multiple oponents, and cut with knives, so what else can go wrong? ;) (yes, I realize how incredibly dangerous and foolish that thought process is, and I'm not completely like that... not completely).

The point to this rambling novel is this - I NEED to change this mentality that I have. I NEED to stop sabotaging everything I do with my own negative attitude/thought process/ past experiences.

But how do I do that? I'm completely lost on this... it's like knowing that you need to drive across town, but not having the first clue as to how to even start the car, let alone drive the thing.

Help?

[Livingmybestlife]

Karma, my father is alot like you. He realized with a wife and three kids he needed something different after quiting lots of jobs. He found a career he could be happy in. Yes, it took taking an apprenticeship for 2 dollars an hour.
Us going on food stamps and getting handouts from people.

However, he became his own boss and in charge of his own destiny. Perhaps that is something to think about. For him it was Air conditioning and heating.

Perhaps your not meant to go to college and need to seek out other paths.
College isn't right for everyone. I would think those things through.

Wishing you the best on your journey.

[SNeacail]

Talk to people who are actually working in the field you want to go into. Find out what it will be like in the real world. The college world tends to be off on its own planet sometimes.

Electronics is a HUGE field with a lot of possibilities. However, to pay the bills sometimes you do just have to "suck-it-up" for a while until you find your niche and get the experience that other employers are going to require. Talk to anyone that has started their own business and they have all worked for stupid bosses, but you can hardly start your own business without any experience first.

My dad is a retired electrical engineer and sometimes he had good bosses sometime he has absolute jerks. There were many times he manage to shoot himself in the foot, because he didn't play well with others.

[Karma]

So Cricket and I are "taking a break".

I'm a mess, and so is she. But I know she needs to do this. We still love each other, and she told me that she doesn't want to lose me.... but yeah. Still hurts like hell.

Tonight was night one of our split. I went to see her with a small group of friends. We had a good time, but not getting a good night kiss from her was kinda like a baseball bat to the ribs.

Actually, having experience in this area, I think I prefer the baseball bat :)

The hardest part of that particular issue is that last night, after our 3 1/2 hour conversation and the mutual decision that this is the bestthing for her right now, we were still very affectionate. We held each other, we both reassured each other that this wasn't the end, we exchanged kisses, even a few tearful ones (if that makes me a look like a bitch, too bad. I'm man enough to admit it when something makes me cry, it doesn't happen often.) She felt like the woman I fell for instead of the shell she has been lately. And then tonight, seemingly out of nowhere, there was almost nothing. I felt like she was shutting me out.

I need to know what the rules are here. I'v never done this "break" thing before... and I can't handle the "rules" changing on me like that out of nowhere. While I don't need to have everything planned out like Mohegan does, I NEED information. I have to know what's going on and where I stand in a given situation, or my mind goes crazy.

This sucks. I'm trying to keep from falling into old habits - IE shutting down emotionally - by throwing myself into whatever I can throw myself into that will force me to feel SOMETHING. I've made too much progress with my sociopathy to backslide now.

Hell, at least one good thing will come of this. I can guaran-damn-tee you that Teradox (my darkon country) will have their feared, confidence inspiring battlefield commander back, fully and in rare form!

My soul may be bleeding, but my family will take care of me. This I know. And they'll do it by kicking ass and taking names beside me.

[SNeacail]

((hugs))

[Karma]

think I need sleep, but I can't.

I feel like I'm ready to explode on someone. Good thing I'm surrounded by friends that know how I work... they keep me sane and out of jail.

Wonder what emotional changes the next half-an-hour will bring my way?:confused: Hell, at least I can feel something. I guess this is a big step forward for me.

[Karma]

God, I just realized that I'm writing bad poetry and whining to my friends.

I'm becoming a sap. Someone shoot me please, before I start crying in a corner while listening to The Smiths and Morrisey :)

[Karma]

MESSAGE CONCERNING THE RISKS OF SAPPINESS:

Many of you may know what sappiness is, or know someone who is a sap. However, you may not be aware that sappiness is a disease that, unless caught in it's early stages, can become completely untreatable and ruin the quality of life for everyone forced to be around the sap. It is most commonly transmitted sexually, but can also be transmitted through physical contact (holding hands, kissing, ect.)

Symptoms of sappiness:

General melancholy or mopiness.

Increased frequency of listening to bands like Morrisey, The Smiths, The Cure, and also My Chemical Romance or any other band that can be classified as "emo".

Annoying inability to talk about anything other than "that girl" or "that guy". Trust us, you'll know the one...

Related to the previous symptom, the complete inability to shut the hell up.

General whinyness.

Emotional Emasculation in males.

If you suspect that someone you love is suffering from sappiness, immediately seek treatment. Remember, while there is no cure for sappiness, it is completely treatable in it's early stages, and many victims of sappiness can go years, or even decades, without an outbreak or flare-up if proper treatment procedures are followed.

Treatments include:

Verbalized boot in the ass, EG. "Are you going to sit here and mope about her all night, or are you going to get up and do something about this?"

Exposure to fun. This may well have to be forced on the sap by means of physical restraint and possibly even kidnapping them to a public place, as they are often reluctant to leave their homes.

Removal of all offending CDs, MP3, and any other sources of "sap" music from the infected person. (see symptoms for examples, above)

Exposure to large, loud doses of heavy metal and rock music, with the intention of allowing the sap to re-discover their "balls" (applies to both males and females.)

Forced participation in creative outlets that do not, in any way, revolve around the subject of the sap's sappiness.

Friends/family of the infected may also need to monitor and control the infected saps schedule, making sure that there are plenty of activities that will prevent the sap from dwelling on the object of his/her sappiness.

In extreme cases, euthanasia may be required in order to put the sap out of everyone else's misery.

So remember, this highly irritating condition is completely treatable if caught early enough. Don't let someone you know become a sap: Friends don't let friends become saps. Be alert. Be aware.

(LOL. They say humor is the best medication, and if you can't laugh at yourself, then you're really screwed :) )

[Karma]

So I sent a message to Cricket about last night, and she replied. Without going into too much of her personal issues, something happened yesterday that triggered a panic attack relating to her past, and as a result, she wasn't mentally able to be affectionate with anyone, not just me.

I feel relieved... but also kinda guilty that I feel relieved, you know? I mean, my thought process here is basically "Oh, she was having a panic attack, that's all. I feel so much better about things now."

Kinda fucked up, I think...

[Karma]

So just talked to her on facebook. I'm all smiley :) She told me she loves me, apologized again for the other night, and sent me this little heart emoticon thingy :)

I'm such a dork right now :) But, I'm a happy one ATM.

[Mohegan]

I'm glad you're happy dear.

[Karma]

So I'm trying something new. I've started a journal, someting for me to get all my thoughts out on paper before I lose them as far as this "facing things and changing myself" mess goes.

The main reason Cricket and I split is because we both have things we need to fix about ourselves. I am starting to realize just how much of a mess I truly am... that, and how much I absolutely fail at "coping" with things, or accepting that there are some things in life that I can't change. Coping with/accepting that I can't "fix" this break between me and Cricket is a perfect example... I have to remind myself daily, sometimes hourly, that this isn't about ME, it's about her. There's nothing I can change to make it better - and that realization is driving me mad.

So, I decided - reluctantly - that I should take this time to address certain things about myself, kicked over a few rocks in my psyche, and found some really nasty, ugly things lurking underneath the surface that I'm trying to figure out how to change.

I have two reason for posting the journal here. #1. is to keep myself motivated to actually write the damn thing. #2. is so that I can get some feedback from people on here that I respect. Trust me, I need all the help I can find right now. I'm trying not to lose my mind on several different fronts.

What follows this post is the first entry. I may not post every entry into the journal that I write - I'm not sure yet, I have no idea where this thing is going - but I'm hoping that posting most of the entries here will motivate me to continue writing in it.

[Karma]

Thursday, Dec. 16 2010.

Realizing what a mess I really am. Last night, after talking with Panda, I realized that I can't do anything just for the sake of enjoying it. I have to "win" or "succeed" at what I'm doing, or I feel like I'm not "good enough". I can't accept defeat. I can't quit fighting or trying until I "win". And if I can't learn -quickly- from these failiures, I get frusterated and start wondering what's wrong with me, IE "why am I not good enough to do this?" Evn if I do, those failures still haunt me. "Yes, I finally won, but he beat me three times before that." Then I start almost obsessing over ways to "erase" or "cancel out" those defeats, to make them "not count against me".

Not count against me according to whom? Who's keeping score here?

So, after talking to Cricket today, I realized that I think everyone is keeping score. I feel that I have to earn people's acceptance and love, lke I have to do something for them or prove myself "worthy" of them before they'll want me around. So, I have to constantly prove to myself that I am still "worthy" of them - them being basically everyone I meet - because if I don't, if I'm not "worthy", then they will either shun me, or leave me and shun me. This is part of what terrifies me about Cricket and I taking a break - I'm scared out of my mind that she'll realize that she doesn't need me and find someone "better" or "more deserving" than I am, and toss me aside - at the very least as a lover, if not entirely. So even though we're taking a break, if I'm not right here, ready to prove my love/devotion/worthiness to her, she'll move on. Logically, I KNOW better, but I can't get around this right now. Not yet, anyway.

I need to understand why I'm like this before I an figure out how to change it, I think. I know that as things stand, I have no idea how to change it...

UPDATE: Hung out with Cricket and J tonight.... didn't really want J there, but I'll take what I can get right now, I guess. She reassured me that she's not going to kick me out of her life, that she'll always want me around "at least as a friend". That is simultaneously comforting and terrifying at the same time.

Let's face it, I don't want to be "just friends". But, one step at a time. She ABSOLUTELY NEEDS THIS right now. I have no idea how things will end with either one of us right now, and I have no right to expect her to commit to anything with anyone, even if I do love her - possibly even more so because I love her. I'm trying to make myself accept this, with verying degrees of success from hour to hour. I really have no idea how to "accept" something like this without constantly stewing on it, trying to figure out how to "make it work". It seems like such a simple thing - "This is how things are right now. I can't do anything about it". So why can't I stop this pattern in my head? Why can't I just see that fact and walk away for now?

Back to wondering what the hell is wrong with me, and how to change it.

[Karma]

Friday, Dec. 17th 2010, 5:13 AM

The fear issue with Cricket comes down to a fear of someone I love rejecting me, IE saying "You're not good enough to be my lover". So, let's explore this recently discovered fear of rejection.

I suppose it starts in childhood. I had a hell of a time making friends. I had been to 7 different schools, three of them twice (for a total of ten different moves) before 6th grade. I still haven't figured out why yet, but I was always a social outcast, up until the day I graduated high school. Part of that (I'm guessing) was my zero tolerance for anything I percieved to be an insult or "being fucked with". I took EVERYTHING personally, so one kid would say something wrong, I'd get pissed off and hostile, and the next thing I know, them and all of their friends are picking on me all year long. Add to this the fact that I was small, AKA an easy target, and the situation rapidly started involving anyone who wanted someone to pick on. I was a small kid with no friends - is there a BIGGER invitation for bullies?

This changed when I started learning how to fight. All the sudden middle school hit and I was no longer an "easy target". I was seen as dangerous, but I still was small, had a bowl cut, and basically looked like a white Steve Urkel with bad acne instead of braces, but including the annoying voice (puberty was unkind to me). Add to this the fact that
my family was always below the poverty line and my mother was a religious psychopath with a whole host of her own psychological issues who refused to allow me to have/attend the normal social experiences kids my age should have had because they were "a bad influence on a christian boy", and you end up with a dangerous, bitter boy with a serious underdog complex and not a snowball's chance in hell of acting or socializing like a "normal person". I had no idea how to even approach people and initiate a conversation, let alone how to make people like me.

That changed one day in 7th grade. I was watching this one kid bully someone other than me for a change - actually, someone who also liked to fuck with me on occasion - And I just snapped on him. I ended up putting him in the hospital after kicking his ass and slamming his head in the lid of one of those flip-top desks with the storage area underneath the writing surface. I got suspended for ten days, but I also made my first friend. The guy I stood up for - someone who had been fucking with me fairly often up until now - not only saw me as something other than a social reject, but also wanted to talk to me, didn't mind being seen with me in school, and even wanted to hang out with me after school.

Fighting became my only means of gaining "social acceptance", for lack of a better term. I still had no idea how to start a conversation with someone I didn't know, but I knew that if I hurt the people who were hurting/fucking with them, then I would gain acceptance. So I started targeting bullies and tough guys, litertally stalking them to get an opportunity
to hurt them. I got hurt plenty too - there's a reason I've had my nose broken 8 times and been hit with more random objects than I care to list, not to mention the other host of injuries. I got suspended so often in 10th grade that I had to drop out and get home schooled to pass that year, but for the first time in my life, I had a group of people who thought I was "cool", and a smaller, close-knit group of dangerous outcasts like me who truly cared about me as a person. Most of the latter group I am still friends with to this day, and consider to be family - we've been through far too much together
for me to see them as anything else.

I "protected" people to earn their acceptance, including working as "security" for the biggest drug dealer in school. Suddenly, my poverty-line family wasn't an issue anymore, because I was getting paid to break people in both weed and money. For me at the time, the physical pain, broken bones, and bad grades were more than worth it. Of course, when you
hospitalize someone by slamming the edge of a textbook into their throat or breaking the handle of the janitor's mop over their face, you definitely make enemies out of their friends, so the fighting not only continued, but it escalated at an alarming rate. Eventually, I wouldn't go anywhere without a knife - at least - on me at all times, and very rarely without "backup", AKA my fellow outcasts to watch my back and jump in if the numbers game got to be to much for me to handle on my own. We started referring to ourselves as a wolfpack, or simply "the pack", because we fought and cared for each other like a pack does.

There's also the fact that most "normal people" simply don't want to associate with a violent, dangerous sociopath (which is what I had turned into), so while I finally had some friends, I was more ostracised from normal society than
ever before.

So what does all of this have to do with my fear of rejection?

I was constantly afraid of not being "useful" or "letting down" my friends both the real ones and the ones that were just using me for my "talents". (Why else would any "sane" human being keep fighting after getting cut with a knife or hit by a baseball bat?) And honestly, how was I to know the difference between the tow groups of people I hung out with?
I had grown up with a mother that only showed her love when I "met her approval" and a stepfather who had no idea how to be a dad or how to relate to me - not that the man didn't try, Tyr bless him. He had no idea what he was getting into with me when he married my mother. Not only that, but in my last entry I said that "I think everyone is keeping score"
in reference to who I think is judging my worth. That's not entirely true. While I felt (feel) like everyone was (is), I didn't care about a lot of those people after awhile, to the point that I would have felt nothing if I watched them get hit by a car and die - or at least I pretended I didn't, even to myself. I'm honestly not sure which is more true, whether I
truly didn't care about them or I was just hiding it from myself and everyone else. I still had very little tolerance for insults or criticism from other people, so I obviously cared to some degree that no one would see me as "weak" or "lower than them". But the people I DID care about.... their approval meant EVERYTHING to me. It became the way I measured my own self worth. So if one of them rejected me or criticised me, it devastated me mentally and emotionally.

I think this is something that I have never truly gotten over, no matter how hard I try to hide it. I am an extremely cocky, arrogant person, and I feel that I have every right to be after surviving the things I have, but that arrogance is not the same thing as self worth. I still measure my self worth according to how the people I care about view me. Their "rejection", whether percieved or real, destroys me. If they reject me as a friend (or even worse, as a lover) then I am CONVINCED that I did something wrong, or that I'm not good enough for them. And I so desperately want to be, I obsess over what I have to do to convince them to "take me back", so much so that I have a really hard time grasping the concept of this break between me and Cricket having nothing to do with me - my ingrained response
is to question why I'm not good enough, or what I'm doing wrong. I have to remind myself HOURLY that this isn't "my fault", and it still never really sinks in, even after her repeatedly telling me this.

As a side note, I think my emotional disconnection - full blown sociopathy - started in high school, as a way to "cope" with feelings of rejection, particularly from my mother and even more so from girls. Let's be honest here: the "bad boy" image only works when you look the part, which I definitely did not. Thanks to my mom, I was regularly wearing christian shirts to school with my bowl cut, mangled glasses, and skinny build. I stopped feeling anytihng at all except for anger or a vague sense of amusement - and a fanantical, nearly homicidal loyalty to those I "cared" about. I'm
honestly not even sure it qualifies as love, although I thought it did at the time. Mohegan started to break that down 8 years ago, and Cricket helped Mohegan to finally break me free of it completely .

Now don't misunderstand me, it's AMAZING to actually feel things like love and happiness again. But after not feeling them for literally half my life, I have no idea how to deal with things like sadness, emotional pain, resentment, jealousy, fear... basically any negative emotion. I literally have NO coping mechanisms for these things, and I'm trying to learn them on the fly, while going through one of the hardest things I've faced, and without driving away someone I love who just desperately needs the time and space to deal with her own badly damaged psyche.

So yeah.... that's where I am right now.

[Mohegan]

I'm really proud of you honey. We'll talk when you get here. I just wanted you to know how proud I am of you. Just keep going forward. No more walking yourself a trench.

[Mohegan]

Just to give you something to think about on your drive...

I think a lot of fear we will never be good enough. That people are always keeping score. When having disagreements, people often bring up the past because it is hard to forget past hurts. But to us, when hearing it brought up and again and again, we are left thinking that someone is keeping score and if we don't do enough to make up for the bad things, we will never redeem ourselves.

The thing is,unconditional love is a bit different. When someone loves you unconditionaly, there is no score marker.

I don't keep score of your mistakes vs when everything is going right. I do expect you to acknowledge your mistakes and work on making the changes needed so they don't happen again. But I don't have a tally going.

And I think once you come to accept yourself, and love yourself and forgive yourself, you'll find that the world isn't looking at you as criticaly as you think it is. I think you may be projecting your own fears and guilt.

And there is nothing wrong with that, in the way that your still learning all of this and it is completely natural to do think the world looks at you under the same magnifying glass you do. When in reality, that just isn't the case.

My favorite therepist through the years told me something that I have carried with me since I was 10. " You are your highest judge, your worst critic and the executioner without a heart. So if you can forgive yourself, if you can see your worth, if you can be proud of your accomplishments, then what the hell does it matter what the rest of the world thinks?"

I know where your gonna go with that, but stop for a minute and think about it first. We carry guilt, not becuase of the person we harmed, but for ourselves. We were bad, we hurt someone, we didn't help, we weren't good enough, if we self punish, then no one can hurt us worse than what we do to ourselves.

Your past molded who you are. It does for all of us. We make decisions and changes based on the things we experience in our day to day life.

But as I told Cricket so many months ago, your letting the past dictate your future. Yes it has influence, yes you still have scars, but it's time to let them just be scars. Stop cutting them back open, stop reliving it. You are NOT who you were then. You are better for it. You are more compassionate because of it. But you are not still living it. It's time is over. You have walked that path long ago, it's time to take the lessons learned and move onto another path.

Not saying forget about, you can't just forget those things. I am saying take what you've learned and go forward. Stop living by the rules of the past. Your mom has no bearing on who you choose to be now. There are no highschool bullies ready to kick your ass. You are in charge of your life now.

Forgive yourself, heal yourself and move forward.

[Ariakas]

I can relate, almost entirely to your early childhood :) I have a colourful past and one that falls in line with your early years. (including the baseball bat and knife fights actually, its kind of eerie)

I was lucky and got some counselling to deal with a lot of my misplaced anger, frustration and angst.

As for the "its my fault" syndrome, if you figure out how to solve that let me know. I know...I have to trust in the person I am having a challenge with, but that sometimes doesn't work. I think it is sometimes human nature to search for the cause, and sometimes you have to look in yourself. When my ex and I broke up I spent a long time looking at everything I did, nitpicking to the minute, or things I didn't do that might have fixed it.

At some point you have to stop looking to the past, realize the reality and stop mourning the loss. Celebrate what you had and move forward with those lessons. It sucks ass until you realize that, hurts and is painful. You are in fact mourning the end of something. You are a fighter, unfortunately this is something your can't just beat up, so I imagine some of your pain comes from that. Fight or flight doesn't work here...it just is.

Soooooo onto the bigger topic, no coping mechanisms. Congrats on recognizing it... now to the meat - Have you sought counselling SPECIFIC to that. Understanding your emotional burial and now its revival, you have been hung out to dry. People don't give enough credit to people who have never been taught how to deal, and some of us need that. I did...in many ways it backfired too, but I was able to deal. During times of duress and anger, those emotions ALWAYS show up as sadness. Being sad is better than feeling the rage again. Is it healthy, no, but it is something I am dealing with.

Seek help, find someone who specifically deals with sociopathy and understands with your newfound emotions you are really at the emotional maturity of a 13 year old. Having to learn everything that should have been dealth with through highschool.

Some things I can recommend which might help. And this is for your partners too

1 - if you are feeling a huge emotional swing - stop, walk away and ask for time. Don't. EVER make decisions or arguments during the swings. Your challenge will look like bi-polar depression when in fact its just your body not knowing how to deal. Take the time to control that swing and then re-engage. Fight that urge to fight ;) - now, here comes the downfall. Ensure you watch for the upswings too. The extreme happiness is not good either. If you let yourself ride too high, the downswing can be really intense which makes it worse. Try to fight the large swings back and forth. :)
2 - You need to, during times of normalcy, ensure you inform your partners of the number 1 requirement. If you just walk away they need to know why, come up with a code word if you have to. But find that time to settle yourself and ensure they know why. Spouses/partners can react badly when you run away, and chase. NOT GOOD in this situation.
3 - Never put yourself in a situation where your learned instincts can kick in. Feeling anger, rage or sadness. Don't put yourself in a situation where a fight can happen. Your instinct is to fight, you have relative control of it....during intense times I bet you don't have as much control
4 - go to couselling

Have I mentioned counselling yet? Learning coping skills on your own is totally possible, but it sure is easier with help.

Ari

[SNeacail]

What Ari said!

my mother was a religious psychopath with a whole host of her own psychological issues who refused to allow me to have/attend the normal social experiences kids my age should have had because they were "a bad influence on a christian boy", and you end up with a dangerous, bitter boy with a serious underdog complex and not a snowball's chance in hell of acting or socializing like a "normal person".

My dad's mom was very much the same. He joined the wrestling team instead :). His parents never once came to any of his matches or showed any kind of support at all. They wouldn't even pick him up on their way home after work, he had to arrange his own transportation home. Needless to say, he carries extreme resentment to this day. However, when we were kids, he made sure that he showed an interest in all of our activities and did everything in his and my mom's power to support us. I think he was able to re-live a lot of stuff through us and seeing my brother and I do the same for our kids makes him feel as if he has corrected a wrong.

There maybe some kid out there in your same situation and with your experiences you may be able to help save them from themselves.

[MonoVCPHG]

Sorry to hear all this my friend. Ari hit on a great resource in my opinion. I had to get proffessional help to enable me to fully understand my own demons when I left my family. People often say knowledge is power. You have a lot of knowledge about the things which shaped who you are and why you do things. The catch is, you can have all the knowledge in the world and have no power if you don't understand it. Going to a counsellor can help you understand the things you know. That is where change can really be brought about. I know money is tight but it might be worth looking around your location for possible lay counsellors.

Knowledge, and the understanding of that knowledge, is power.

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=67&pictureid=798

[MonoVCPHG]

Let's talk a bit about careers/jobs and principles. I have an anarchist frined who volunteers extensive hours at book stores that carry books he believes in. He will not compromise his principles to work in a book store that pays him because they carry books he does not believe in. While this is admirable, it is aslo very straining on him because he effectively cannot support himself as an adult and relies on government assistance to get by.
Redpepper's husband often struggles with feeling unfulfilled in his solid government job. He justifiably believes he should be fulfilled by his career and wants that. Unfortunately the desire to find something else jeapordizes the stability and good wage of government emplyment. But he does his job and focusses on the things he likes about it as much as he can.
I've been in the military for over 20 years. I don't particularly believe in many of the things we do but I have learned to focus on the things I do enjoy. I have also learned to accept my job as a job. I just play the game. Then I can truly embrace life after that time with the money it provides. Perhaps finding something to focus on within the feilds you are chosing to or not focussing on the feild at all is the way to go until the right opportunity comes along.

Apply the disciple you've learned in the fighting arts to the jobs you are doing or at least to control your discomfort in doing them.

Just my thoughts

[NeonKaos]

Let's talk a bit about careers/jobs and principles. I have an anarchist frined who volunteers extensive hours at book stores that carry books he believes in. He will not compromise his principles to work in a book store that pays him because they carry books he does not believe in. While this is admirable, it is aslo very straining on him because he effectively cannot support himself as an adult and relies on government assistance to get by.

Just my thoughts

Excuse me while I go roll my eyes.

It may be "very straining on him" but it is NOT "admirable" to CLAIM to be an "anarchist" and rely on any kind of government assistance WHATSOEVER. Your friend is just an ordinary, every-day HYPOCRITE. If you are going to be a hypocrite, the least you could do is be the best hypocrite you can be.

Oh shit, I'm not supposed to be here, this is Karma's blog...:eek:

[MonoVCPHG]

Excuse me while I go roll my eyes.

It may be "very straining on him" but it is NOT "admirable" to CLAIM to be an "anarchist" and rely on any kind of government assistance WHATSOEVER. Your friend is just an ordinary, every-day HYPOCRITE. If you are going to be a hypocrite, the least you could do is be the best hypocrite you can be.

Oh shit, I'm not supposed to be here, this is Karma's blog...:eek:

Wow! You're way more blunt than I am...not saying I completely disagree though ;)

[eklctc]

I'm glad you have decided to use this forum to sort through your thoughts and, also, allow us to see deeper into your world.

As Mohegan said, keep moving forward.

I look forward to watching your journey.

Positive and healing vibes coming your way~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

[redpepper]

Realizing that there are some issues for you is half the battle. If Cricket had not requested a break you might not of known or thought about all that you have here. What a gift to you. That is all good info and now you can do the work to figure out why... as you said. That is awesome... hard, but awesome.

It seems you have had some really good advice and support here. I'm glad to see it. I don't have anything to add really right now, but I am following along and sending you love...

I agree that some of these issues need a lot more work than this forum could help you with and that a cousellor is a really good bet. Someone who will be there for awhile. There is some deep stuff going on for you that warrents some really hard work I think.

You can do it :) we're all rooting for you.

[Morningglory629]

I
At some point you have to stop looking to the past, realize the reality and stop mourning the loss. Celebrate what you had and move forward with those lessons. It sucks ass until you realize that, hurts and is painful. You are in fact mourning the end of something. You are a fighter, unfortunately this is something your can't just beat up, so I imagine some of your pain comes from that. Fight or flight doesn't work here...it just is.

Soooooo onto the bigger topic, no coping mechanisms. Congrats on recognizing it... now to the meat - Have you sought counselling SPECIFIC to that. Understanding your emotional burial and now its revival, you have been hung out to dry. People don't give enough credit to people who have never been taught how to deal, and some of us need that. I did...in many ways it backfired too, but I was able to deal. During times of duress and anger, those emotions ALWAYS show up as sadness. Being sad is better than feeling the rage again. Is it healthy, no, but it is something I am dealing with.

Seek help, find someone who specifically deals with sociopathy and understands with your newfound emotions you are really at the emotional maturity of a 13 year old. Having to learn everything that should have been dealth with through highschool.

Some things I can recommend which might help. And this is for your partners too

1 - if you are feeling a huge emotional swing - stop, walk away and ask for time. Don't. EVER make decisions or arguments during the swings. Your challenge will look like bi-polar depression when in fact its just your body not knowing how to deal. Take the time to control that swing and then re-engage. Fight that urge to fight ;) - now, here comes the downfall. Ensure you watch for the upswings too. The extreme happiness is not good either. If you let yourself ride too high, the downswing can be really intense which makes it worse. Try to fight the large swings back and forth. :)
2 - You need to, during times of normalcy, ensure you inform your partners of the number 1 requirement. If you just walk away they need to know why, come up with a code word if you have to. But find that time to settle yourself and ensure they know why. Spouses/partners can react badly when you run away, and chase. NOT GOOD in this situation.
3 - Never put yourself in a situation where your learned instincts can kick in. Feeling anger, rage or sadness. Don't put yourself in a situation where a fight can happen. Your instinct is to fight, you have relative control of it....during intense times I bet you don't have as much control
4 - go to couselling

Have I mentioned counselling yet? Learning coping skills on your own is totally possible, but it sure is easier with help.

Ari

Best advice ever! Disregard the negative "advice" on here. You are a lovely man who is examining his life and willing to learn, and also will to stand for principles. You have many people who rely on you in different ways. You have great loves in your life. All validating your need to have someone else tell you "You are worth it." Take Ari's and Mono's advice alpha male, get some help in learning the techniques required for having better relationships, especially the one you have with yourself. Love to you and yours!:)

[Karma]

LOL, Alpha Male, eh? It's kinda funny that a few of my friends have made similar comments at different times. Not feeling very "alpha" at the moment, but the comment still made me smile.

Irony..... I've spent damn near our entire relationship trying to convince Cricket that she neds to see a therapist. Lo and behold, apparently she's not the only one! :) Now that she's finally agreed that she needs it, maybe it's time for me to take my own (and a few other people's) advice, and do the same thing.

Mohegan bought me two self-help books relating to these issues. Personally, I've always thought that self-help books were good for a laugh and that's about it.... I've been handed several before at various points, and I always thought they were full of crap. However, it occured to me earlier today that it may have been because I was too far gone atthose points to see that I needed the help, or to understand what to do with the knowledge given in said books, so.... they are a poor substitute for a councelor, but they'll do until I get back to Maryland. Besides, for now I have my wife and my brother here as my "councelors".

Sigh.... one step at a time....

[redpepper]

There are some excellent books in the sticky "book recomendations." The thing with self help books is that some are crap and some are gold... weeding through them and getting suggestions makes the eyes roll less. I'm not a self help book reader but PN is. He tells me what he reads about and it spurs on some amazing conversations, a lot of which lead him to write on his site.

LR is a great resource for books... she is a self help reading queen.

[Mohegan]

I spent almost 3 hrs in Borders weeding through those books for you, you better like them. :D

I have gift receipts if they aren't what you are interested in.

I think the thing with self help books, is that you have to take them for what they are. Advice. The book is not going to solve your problems. It will however give you insight on how others solved similar problems. It's like asking for adivce, but choosing when you get it. and sometimes, you get answers and insight to things you never thought to ask.

Yeah, some are kind of corny and some are just there to make money, but others are truly written from the heart to help others help themselves.

I'd just like to point out that the book we are writing, would be classified as self help.

It's saying, "Hey I've been there. Here's what I did, I hope it helps."

You asked earlier today how to read them, and I wasn't sure how to answer you. So I did some thinking and here's my opinion on it.

I usualy take these types of books and skin through them. To get a feel of how they are set up. I check the table of contents and pick a random chapter that sounds interesting. I get a feel for the writers tone.

If it is written in the way you are I writing ours, in almost a conversation. I read it in order from front to back. Because I feel like picking and choosing in that style of writing, loses some of the impact and point the author was going for. They build each chapter on the previous ones. If you skip a few chapters you may miss a few building blocks that would really help in understanding the next chapter.

If it is written in more of a clinical or text book style. Then I pick and choose. You may still miss some things, but I have found I get bored and miss the whole point if I try to read it in order.

With any style, I keep my journal close. I write my thoughts done as I read. Because if I wait until I am done, I've lost half of what I wanted to get down. I jot down my thoughts, sometimes including the passage in the book that got my brain going in the first place. Sometimes I have no thoughts on things, but I find points that I want to keep record of, so I jot them down too.

I've read a bit of both books I bought for you and picked them for a reason. They specificaly mention the types of thought patterns your have expressed the desire to change. They specificaly go through how to break those thought patterns and replace them with positives.

I am so proud of you for working through this.I know it seems like an endless battle right now, but it does get easier. Once you not only have the tools, but know how to use them, it'll be much easier to process things.

Would it help if we worked together in the way we did some of the religious work? I don't mind doing it that way if it will help you. I can read through the books and set up questions and 'assignments'. Give you topics to journal. If you don't want to that is totaly fine, just throwing the offer out there. I want to help you in anyway I can. I can't really find the words to tell you how proud I am of you for even starting this, but I also have no words for the pain it causes me to see your pain.

I think something that will really help you is learning what is running away and what is accepting that there is nothing you can do right now. I want you to really think about what we talked about this morning. Putting something on the shelf, so you don't dwell over it while gaining the knowledge you need to fix it, is not running away. There's just nothing you can do about it right now, aside from gain more knowledge. Remember what you always ask me when my worrying gets out of control, is dwelling on it going to solve anything?

My final thoughts are to remind you of the inscription I put in the journal I gave you. Remember that you can be honest with me about anything, that's what this whole communication thing is about. What this whole new way of working together is about. I will do whatever you need me to, to help you. It is a painful path, and sometimes what you find when you kick over those rocks is going to be really ugly, please remember that I am here. That I have no record book, no score to keep track of. Unconditional love my dear.

Oh one more final thought-Robot Chicken did a special for star wars episode 3. And one of the skits was a spoof on the Dos Equi's ads. Apparently Bobba Fett is also the most interesting man in the world.

[Ariakas]

Here is a friendly FYI about self help books. They are catered to those who have the learning style of reading. If you are an interactive learner, than the books will be useless(ish). I find self help books to be a virtual void of information for me. I can read them, but can't process them well. I use forums because of the interaction and processing other people bring. Whether or not anyones right is irrelevant, but showing me alternatives is best way to get me to find the truth.

This isn't me being negative, if they work great. But be cognizant of how you learn. Thats the key in trying to get healthier. Don't get frustrated with one method, if its the method that doesn't work for you. Everything Mohegan wrote works wonderfully for people who learn that way, but I went through school despising the education system because I am significantly better at learning when "doing" than when "reading".

[Karma]

Apparently Bobba Fett is also the most interesting man in the world.

No, Mr. Fett (and he IS a Mr. believe you me) is the most interesting man in the Galaxy.... a galaxy far, far away... :)

[Karma]

Tuesday, Dec. 21, 2010 10:56 AM

Haven't had the time to write in this thing since I got to Ohio - I've been too busy doing work and running errands for the in-laws.

Trying to keep my mind off of Cricket, but that's a losing battle. When we talk, half the time I don't even get an "I love you", even if I say it. I have no idea where I stand with her right now. And to top it off, even though she's "takin a break from relationships", She spent all night watching the eclipse with J last night. Hice to see he's taking full advantage of our break to be a cowboy. Nice to know she's able to find the time to spend with him and be romantic, but couldn't do so with me.

Why the fuck am I even trying here?

[SNeacail]

((Hugs))

[Karma]

So I just did the math here.

J is moving to Pittsburgh for at least the summer (4 months, I believe). Most of us think he won't be coming back.

He's already asked Cricket to come with him for the summer. She has yet to respond.

He is the one who suggested to her that she "needs to take a break from relationships" in the first place. He's also the one who broke up with her because he "couldn't handle a poly relationship".

And now that we're "taking a break" and I'm in Ohio, he's spending all kinds of time with her...

I am a fucking moron. How did I not see this earlier?

[MonoVCPHG]

Sorry to hear this my friend. I'd say you are likely right about the cowboy thing. I can't think of what else to tell you other than maybe, if it is time to move on from this, this might be a good time to focus on other areas of your life. Maybe it's time to take charge of your self awareness and career path the way you take charge of your weapons on the field of battle. You're a fighter Karma, but one of the biggest issue with that type of energy is learning how to channel it into other areas when you aren't actually fighting. Dig your heels in, put your shoulder to the wind and make a change. Think of this as a spring board to a higher level of total life.

Take care

[Mohegan]

I love you Mono, thank you for having the words when I do not.

[Karma]

So yesterday I learned that, while my paranoia has served me well in the past, it is NOT helping me right now.

More on this after sleep. Suffice it to say that not everything was as fucked up as I imagined it to be.

[eklctc]

Complete with Ariakas in the learning arena. I can process advancement through reading but I am much better if it involves hands-on, so to speak.

[eklctc]

({hugging you very tightly yet tenderly})

[trueRiver]

That's a lovely story, really. My favorite kind of poly story, lol - people cheat and learn that the other wouldn't have minded if they'd been honest and they finally get communication open and the relationship comes out stronger than ever and they go on their way with a new significant other or two or ten...
[snip]
if there were various poly fairly tales, that one would be my favorite. It just strikes a chord with me. :)

IF ???

At the Word of Mouth story telling club, Manchester, England on August 5th 2011 my first poly fairy story got its first outing, sorry I am not going to tell you the plot as it gets its second outing at Polyday 2011 (http://www.polyday.org.uk/) and I don't want to spoil the ending....

The organiser of Polyday has made a slot for poly stories, about enough time for five or six of them, and I am hoping I will not be the only one to go with one prepared in advance.

I may be the only poly at the Manchester club, but I am not the only one to sometimes use a poly ending, to surprise the audience :)

So yes, you are going to have to upgrade your name now, to the HappierThanHappiestManALive ;)

And I will look at the plot you summarised above, maybe it will be the outline for the next poly story :)

But I will leave you with a thought: all fairy tales are poly.

Were fairy tales mono the ending would be 'they both lived happily ever after' eh?

[Karma]

So, I suppose I'm back. It's been a few years, but life has a strange way of taking us in circles at times. The woman I'm currently dating found this board all by herself - I had actually forgotten about it:rolleyes:.

So far things seem to be going pretty good. She and Mo just spent 4 hours chatting on facebook, which is pretty much against Mo's religion.

[SNeacail]

I was right :).

[Mohegan]

Of course you did :D

[Mohegan]

I really enjoyed last night. Thank you for your patience. And for taking our poking fun at you so well. It's fun to watch you blush.:D

[Karma]

That just means that I get to get even with you both :D

[Karma]

Came home from work yesterday to find Mohegan and Pixie on the living room couch hanging out like old friends, with dinner waiting for me on the stove. Turns out they had spent the entire day together :)

Kind of loving my life right now.