Please don't judge me

[Derbylicious]

I don't really know how to start this. My husband and I have been together for 15 years. I pursued him quite actively and for the beginning of our relationship we were "friends with benefits". He would frequently talk to me during that time about how he wanted a girlfriend and that no one would ever want him ect. Even though it's irrational I've always had a little nagging feeling that he just settled for me. (Even though we have been happily married for 10 years).

So fast forward to about 2 years ago. We started talking about opening up our relationship. I have a girlfriend who I see occasionally. She also has a husband and we all get along well. I'm having trouble with the idea of my husband forming a relationship with another woman. Because I'm insecure I'm worried that he's looking for the one that he really wants, not the one that relentlessly hunted him down until he gave in.

I'm not sure how to get past this. I want him to be happy. I just hate feeling like I'm in direct competition with someone else. Anyone else been through something similar?

[MonoVCPHG]

Anyone else been through something similar?


This forum is about sharing and learning. It certainly is not about judging. Please push those fears aside. I can't offer any advice on your siutuation but others here should be able to help.
Best wishes.

[MonoVCPHG]

I showed your post to my girlfriend Redpepper and she had this to say:

"I think she needs to test his loyalty to her by letting him go find another if that is what they decided. Its better to live a full life in the full embrace of someones love than always wonder if he just settled. If it doesn't work out she will find another where she doesn't have to feel like that and he will find the true love he deserves. If they decide to keep their love alive it will be better than ever for the experience"

Redpepper is pretty busy so I try to pass things on to her.

Take care

[Quath]

In a sense, if you have an open relationship, why would he leave you? Even if he found someone super cool, the only reason he would leave you is because he doesn't want to be with you, not because anyone "stole" him. That is kind of the logical view of it.

Emotionally, it sounds like you need to hear from him why he loves you and wants to be with you. Just let him know when you are feeling extra insecure and he can try to help you understand why he wants to be with you.

My wife is going through similar feelings. I have said these things to her, but they did not seem to help. So I am not sure if it will help you or not.

[alphafour]

I understand that you feel fearful that the choice to open your relationship could cause a breech in the current environment of your marriage. It is the big fear that the standard of monagamy has given most women. Most of you ladies don't want anything but that protective man to stand by you and defend you from all that society can throw at you. Society threw monagamy at you, and this site will do its best to protect you from the stigma of "thinking outside the box."

[Derbylicious]

I understand that you feel fearful that the choice to open your relationship could cause a breech in the current environment of your marriage. It is the big fear that the standard of monagamy has given most women. Most of you ladies don't want anything but that protective man to stand by you and defend you from all that society can throw at you. Society threw monagamy at you, and this site will do its best to protect you from the stigma of "thinking outside the box."


Maybe that's partly what this is. I like to believe that I'm pretty self sufficient though and that I can defend myself against what the world has to throw at me. Given my husband's job I do spend long periods of time alone and have to take what is thrown at me. But you are right that when he is home I do rely on him to take on his role as part of this family. Our time is sometimes fairly limited together and so I expect a lot of him when he is home to make up for the time that he is away.


There is so many things going on in my head and not a lot of it makes sense. I know things logically but I guess I just don't know them emotionally. More stuff to work through I guess. And here I was thinking that I didn't have any issues. I have a lot of issues that have come from a whole lot of places. I was so good at repressing them until now :P.

I think what I need is someone who has been in the early stages of poly and has gotten through it who I can confide in. Talking to your spouse only goes so far especailly when you're both coming into the discussion with somewhat of an agenda. We have friends that we can bounch other things off of and I think I could really use a friend who I can bounch poly stuff off of. Someone who understands the emotions and the difference between the logical and the emotional. I don't see the discussions between my spouse and I as moving forward anymore. It's important to talk and to be heard but it gets to the point when you're just having the same discussion over and over again and never coming up with any way of advancing.

[NeonKaos]

. Most of you ladies don't want anything but that protective man to stand by you and defend you from all that society can throw at you.

Are you kidding me, that is exactly why I married my husband. I suppose, according to the logic you put to follow that, that I married the right one!

[alphafour]

Are you kidding me, that is exactly why I married my husband. I suppose, according to the logic you put to follow that, that I married the right one!


Some people think I am psychic.

[Danny40179]

Welcome! You say that you've been happily married for 10 years. I think the proof is in the pudding. Do you think that if your husband wanted to find someone else he would have by this point? My wife had many of the same fears when we first started out. There are two things that are extremely important in this lifestyle. Communication, and time. I agree that you need to find someone else to talk to about things sometimes. I would have loved to have someone poly to bounce ideas off of. Time, you can't do anything about. LOL After being in the lifestyle for as long as we have, we've now realized certain things. Mainly, that we're not going anywhere.

I'm sure there are others on here that have gone through the same experiences that you're having. Use us!! That's what we're here for. :) Good luck and keep us posted!

[NeonKaos]

Some people think I am psychic.

I am only speaking for myself as a person, not about all women everywhere. :)

Furthermore, I did not realize that until AFTER we got married; marriage really IS about everyone BUT the [two] people involved. If it were only about love, etc. there would be no use for it.

[alphafour]

I am only speaking for myself as a person, not about all women everywhere. :)

Furthermore, I did not realize that until AFTER we got married; marriage really IS about everyone BUT the [two] people involved. If it were only about love, etc. there would be no use for it.

IMO, it should mostly be about raising children in a secure and healthy environment. You should have love for your partner in that enterprise.
With a poly relationship, all of the adults should still focus on the children, but occasional moments of gratification can be considered a reward for your efforts.

Framing it in this light should help people understand the difference between a marriage and a "civil union." When the intent is addressed as "creating a family" it becomes harder for a homosexual couple to justify the intentions. Many hetero couples get married without any intention of rearing children. Just between me and wall, it isn't a real good idea. Divorce can follow marriage, and somebody is going to get the shaft and not have any smiling children to justify their poor judgment and irrational moment of decision.

[NeonKaos]

So much for your psychic powers.

I am so CF (child-free), that I can't even find the words to respond to that without maximum snarkiness.

Obviously, marriage and reproduction are not practical co-requisites.

Edit:

I'm not going to squeeze out a kid just so I'll have company in case I get divorced. That's what god invented cats for.


Furthermore, "smiling children" should not be produced to "justify their [parents'] poor judgment and irrational moment of decision". In reality, children often ARE the product of poor judgement and an irrational moment of INdecision (or failure to use birth-control).

Guess I should head over to the courthouse and file for divorce first thing tomorrow morning. Either that, or I should get a kid pronto.

[alphafour]

So much for your psychic powers.

I am so CF (child-free), that I can't even find the words to respond to that without maximum snarkiness.

Obviously, marriage and reproduction are not practical co-requisites.

Edit:

I'm not going to squeeze out a kid just so I'll have company in case I get divorced. That's what god invented cats for.


Furthermore, "smiling children" should not be produced to "justify their [parents'] poor judgment and irrational moment of decision". In reality, children often ARE the product of poor judgement and an irrational moment of INdecision (or failure to use birth-control).

Guess I should head over to the courthouse and file for divorce first thing tomorrow morning. Either that, or I should get a kid pronto.

Have you ever heard of a "Cat Lady?" You don't want to be one. Of course, being an empath, I realize that cats are better than most men. I am an empath, so I have "cat like" feelings and understanding of yours. Most men don't. Cats are nice to have around when you feel sad.

Children are a responsibility, and so are cats and dogs. Divorce laws were created to enforce the rearing responsibility and to make sure the kids are smiling and do justify the original partnership. You can disagree, and I will agree to your right to hold your own opinion.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

Facinating as it may be to weigh the pro’s and con’s of becoming a crazy cat lady is...I don’t know what it has to do with the OP’s questions.

“Stay on target...” – Gold Leader

Cheers.

[alphafour]

Facinating as it may be to weight the pro’s and con’s of becoming a crazy cat lady is...I don’t know what it has to do with the OP’s questions.

“Stay on target...” – Gold Leader

Cheers.


It is at least close enough to the target to exceed the argument that it is off topic. Your complaint is offtopic.

We could probably create an entire thread just to analyse the debate tactics of this one. That would be better than hijacking the thread to argue the finer points of point and counterpoint. What would you suggest I do when an opposing debater chooses to slip a "Red Herring" in.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

We could probably create an entire thread just to analyse the debate tactics of this one. That would be better than hijacking the thread to argue the finer points of point and counterpoint. What would you suggest I do when an opposing debater chooses to slip a "Red Herring" in.

That's a great idea. I have created a thread here (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=1468#post1468)for the Marriage & Kids debate to carry on unabaited.
In the meantime, I'd be very interested to see what people have to offer the OP, as the last directly related post seemed to be from Danny40179 (Thanks).

Cheers.

[alphafour]

Earth to gold leader/

This is the last response from the original poster. It is usually wise to take into account any additional information which the original poster supplies. The OP (original post) usually lacks detail, and in a normal discussion where "Gold leaders" aren't trying to outgun the "Alphadogg" the thread might lead away from the content of the OP without "Gold leaders" approval.

You might wish to read up, and post something which is relative to the discussion instead of inciting a mutiny.

Maybe that's partly what this is. I like to believe that I'm pretty self sufficient though and that I can defend myself against what the world has to throw at me. Given my husband's job I do spend long periods of time alone and have to take what is thrown at me. But you are right that when he is home I do rely on him to take on his role as part of this family. Our time is sometimes fairly limited together and so I expect a lot of him when he is home to make up for the time that he is away.


There is so many things going on in my head and not a lot of it makes sense. I know things logically but I guess I just don't know them emotionally. More stuff to work through I guess. And here I was thinking that I didn't have any issues. I have a lot of issues that have come from a whole lot of places. I was so good at repressing them until now :P.

I think what I need is someone who has been in the early stages of poly and has gotten through it who I can confide in. Talking to your spouse only goes so far especailly when you're both coming into the discussion with somewhat of an agenda. We have friends that we can bounch other things off of and I think I could really use a friend who I can bounch poly stuff off of. Someone who understands the emotions and the difference between the logical and the emotional. I don't see the discussions between my spouse and I as moving forward anymore. It's important to talk and to be heard but it gets to the point when you're just having the same discussion over and over again and never coming up with any way of advancing.

I did not have this discussion with a human, and went through my first stages of poly all by myself. I understand that both of you would have mixed feelings. We are all programmed by our society to look for the "Damsel in Distress" or the "Prince Charming," not Robin Hood and his band of Merry Men.

What I see in poly friendly people is a desire to build community. You didn't mention any kids, so I won't assume that my speculation on their existence had relevent merits. If you could update that info, I am sure that "Gold Leader" and "Alphadogg" can come an agreement on where that portion of the discussion should be placed.

[Derbylicious]

I smell testosterone poisoning!

Yes I have kids but I don't really understand how that factors into anything.

[alphafour]

Yes I have kids but I don't really understand how that factors into anything.

I suppose we could work without all the details. I just don't believe that you get a full picture of the situation unless you consider how your actions might affect them.

[Derbylicious]

My kids have 2 parents who care about them very much. Neither of us would do anything to jepordize their welfare. Of couse we consider how our actions will affect them. They are still small so the debate is how much to tell them and when. But that is a conversation for a different topic. This topic (at least to me) is how do I get over my insecurities.

[alphafour]

This topic (at least to me) is how do I get over my insecurities.

Well, I am just a single guy right now, and I can afford to think about me, me, me.

I don't worry about what gold leader or anybody else thinks. I simply have to be secure in the thought that love can be for myself, and given to nobody else, or I can show it to others. I have trouble loving just one person, so i am poly.

[Derbylicious]

I'm thinking that going into a poly relationship when all parties are starting out that way is much easier than adjusting to the change 5, 10 or more years into a previously monogamous relationship.

[alphafour]

I'm thinking that going into a poly relationship when all parties are starting out that way is much easier than adjusting to the change 5, 10 or more years into a previously monogamous relationship.

I am trying not to dominate the forum or the thread, but participation is a bit lacking. Hopefully membership will rise, and activity will increase over time, and I won't have to be the only one here. I just can't let you go without a near term response.

You hit the nail on the head with those words. It is much easier to start without "baggage." I am not judging your "carry-ons" as much as recognizing that your burden includes every member of your family. The happiness (or at least contentment) of several people depends on how you and your husband are able to cope with the recognition of a desire that is greater than the "normal" or "standard" bonds of marriage can handle.

So far, you are handling it in the most decent way possible. You have laid the truth on the table, and didn't violate the important trust of your relationship. That is so commendable, IMO. Very few people can live up to that standard, yet you have done so. I try to explain to mono people about the standard of honesty in poly relationships, and they just don't get it. More often, the monos end up cheating without disclosure. Most monos call it "cheating" to be a poly. I don't believe they treat us fairly, and I do believe that poly relationships make trust a primary, and more useful criteria.

[vampiresscammy]

heyla and welcome Derby :)

my advice would be talk to him, ask him to share any details about any possible new ladies and to take it slowly til you find your level of okayness, and to continue to keep you in the loop, maybe even talk to the new lady if possile. baby steps til you both find your comfort zone of sharing. lots of luck to you both.

[Lemondrop]

I don't really know how to start this. My husband and I have been together for 15 years. I pursued him quite actively and for the beginning of our relationship we were "friends with benefits". He would frequently talk to me during that time about how he wanted a girlfriend and that no one would ever want him ect. Even though it's irrational I've always had a little nagging feeling that he just settled for me. (Even though we have been happily married for 10 years).

So fast forward to about 2 years ago. We started talking about opening up our relationship. I have a girlfriend who I see occasionally. She also has a husband and we all get along well. I'm having trouble with the idea of my husband forming a relationship with another woman. Because I'm insecure I'm worried that he's looking for the one that he really wants, not the one that relentlessly hunted him down until he gave in.

I'm not sure how to get past this. I want him to be happy. I just hate feeling like I'm in direct competition with someone else. Anyone else been through something similar?


Something that has helped for me is to visualize what would help me feel more secure and ask for it. My quad talks constantly. Constantly! It is, by the way, the reason I haven't been here very much lately. We've apparently had a lot to talk bout. But basically, I read as many poly books as I can get my hands on, figure out what applies to me, and talk to the others about it. We're quite blessed to have a fantastic other wife who is quite skilled at communicating.

I don't know what your insecurities are based in. I understand that you feel like he settled, but I don't know what actions he's taking now that are perpetuating it. An example that might help--I feel like my husband doesn't care who fills the role of wife, as long as there's someone in the role. I feel like he doesn't see me or know me, and I don't feel like I can trust it when he says that he loves me. At the suggestion of our other wife, we got a book called The Five Love Languages, which revealed that my "love language" is touch--my husband is not very affectionate, and I felt the lack of touch but didn't realize that was the problem. We talked about what the minimum was for me to feel loved. We came to an agreement that he and I would drop everything at 11:30pm and just cuddle with one another until we fell asleep. The agreement sounds very cold and unfeeling, but just the added touch has helped center me. It's been less than a week since we made the agreement, but today I woke up feeling more happy and sane than I have in a long time.

So, ask yourself, how can I feel like he's choosing me? I don't recommend the trial-by-fire approach--our other wife tried it, and it seemed like nothing our other husband did was right. Every action he took made it appear that he was choosing me over her. We've had to take a step back to save the relationship.

Perhaps you can come up with a reasonable action that might not seem like much, but given time will help you feel like he's choosing to be with you. You're welcome to talk to me--I'm about two months into my only poly relationship, and in a polyfideltious quad comprised of two married couples. BTW, I very much feel like my husband married me because I pursued him.

[Mark1npt]

It probably is easier for all to be poly first then progress into a relationship, but I think other ways are achievable too. From my own experience of springing it on my wife of 27 years and her best friend of 20, it's been trying and hurtful at times but really seems to be deepening our friendships all around and now working toward a very fulfilling and meaningful lifestyle. I get the feeling there are many possible combinations that can and do make this poly stuff work. But it is work, just like any other marriage or meaningful long term relationship.

[River]

Honestly, I'm opposed to polymory....

Badeth,

Are you opposed to polyamory in a restricted sense, as in your own relationship? Or does your opposition extend to others and society, generally?

[XYZ123]

Badeth,
Why on this board if you oppose polyamory? And, your signature...michigan divorce laws...hmmm...?
Maybe you have good reasons but I find it strange.:confused:

[Creatress]

Hey. I can't contribute TOO much to this topic because I'm fairly early in my first poly relationship as well (a few months, really, most of which has been long distance). While I was visiting, this did come up a bit, though. We're a quad of one man and three women, one of whom has been married to A for over ten years. They married young, and in some ways the wife sees the circumstances of their marriage as detracting from their love, that if A found someone he was more compatible with, he'd leave her. While that's scary on an emotional level, it's scary on a practical level too, because they have four children, so the idea of being launched into single motherhood is pretty terrifying.

We've handled those fears thus far by reiterating that even IF that were a strong, realistic possibility, she wouldn't be single for long, because she's quite a catch. Besides that, after this long, I think if he really wanted out, he'd get out. I do think that it's just a matter of women (all humans, actually) in general being prone to insecurity and being able to manipulate ANY information into something personally hurtful to ourselves.

The only way to REALLY know is to let this play out, talk through everyone's feelings often, try to meet each other's needs for freedom/security/reassurance/stability along the way, and learn that he chooses to be with you every day. I would also think of that act that makes you say "if only he did ____, I'd know that he really does love me." He shouldn't have to prove himself constantly or whatnot, but once in a while, you do need that proof, that reassurance. Once you know what it is that would make you feel confident about his love for you, verbalize it to him, don't just expect him to be telepathic about it. :rolleyes:

[Barry]

There is so many things going on in my head and not a lot of it makes sense. I know things logically but I guess I just don't know them emotionally. More stuff to work through I guess. And here I was thinking that I didn't have any issues. I have a lot of issues that have come from a whole lot of places. I was so good at repressing them until now :P..

Where I'm going with this thread will be a bit controversial. You have defined "part" of the problem. What is going on in your head. That dialog sets the stage for the outcome. For example, I've had conversations in my head before meeting with a particular customer with whom I have an adversarial relationship with. By the time I actually came face to face with him I was already pissed off by my own internal dialog, by the conversation I had with him in my head. It sets the stage for the outcome. If you find yourself chewing on the issue while you are sitting, or while you are working, or while you body is busy doing something else.....stop. Make a conscious effort to stop. Either meditate or focus "completely" on what you are currently doing. This won't remove the issue, or change problems that you will face in the future. But it will stop you from chewing on issues from the past, and it will stop you from projecting them into the future. When it comes to this one issue, try to keep it in the present, keep it in the now. That way you won't be draining off the vital energy you need to make your relationships a success.

Barry

[Derbylicious]

Where I'm going with this thread will be a bit controversial. You have defined "part" of the problem. What is going on in your head. That dialog sets the stage for the outcome. For example, I've had conversations in my head before meeting with a particular customer with whom I have an adversarial relationship with. By the time I actually came face to face with him I was already pissed off by my own internal dialog, by the conversation I had with him in my head. It sets the stage for the outcome. If you find yourself chewing on the issue while you are sitting, or while you are working, or while you body is busy doing something else.....stop. Make a conscious effort to stop. Either meditate or focus "completely" on what you are currently doing. This won't remove the issue, or change problems that you will face in the future. But it will stop you from chewing on issues from the past, and it will stop you from projecting them into the future. When it comes to this one issue, try to keep it in the present, keep it in the now. That way you won't be draining off the vital energy you need to make your relationships a success.

Barry


Must be late, I read MEDICATE instead of MEDITATE. I'll try and follow this advice though and stop with the inner dialogue.