Is it unfair to say that he can't fuck her while I'm at work?

[Violet1]

So my boyfriend and I don't really know what we're doing, as we're new to this whole world. I need advice concerning our open relationship. It's so hard to navigate this unknown world when there aren't a lot of examples to go by!!

I had been through a string of relationships where (1) the guy would eventually get so possessive that I couldn't even hang out with friends and (2) I inevitably became restless, sexually, where I just had the biggest urge to go out and cheat. Which I did, and it alleviated my boredom and restlessness, and helped me appreciate my bf again, but then I would feel so bad about keeping it a secret, that I'd tell and it would ruin everything.

So, after doing a lot of research, I though that in the next relationship had to have some degree of openness. I wanted to be able to have a one-off every once in a while with a man, and be able to build relationships with girls (as I have few female friends) and still be able to make it "more" if we so choose. And I didn't have a problem imagining the bf going and doing another girl, because in fact, I think the idea of a lovely lady enjoying my bf is extremely hot.

My boyfriend and I met at work where we are the only ones running the building during our shift. We agreed to go into this with open minds. For the last 9 months, our relationship has been very solid with lots of communication and trust.

So far, I have had a one-night stand with an old friend (male) and I also dated a girl a little bit, but that ended pretty quickly because I just wasn't that into her. He hadn't had any outside relationships until recently..

He met a girl at a bar and started talking to her. One night she came over, had some drinks and we all had sex together. It was a lot of fun, and I thought it was really sexy watching my bf fuck her. But since then, we've tried to hang out more and we've all gotten into bed a couple more times, but unfortunately I am quickly losing interest in her. She has ended up being kinda boring in bed, she doesn't do anything but lay there and despite saying she's bisexual and has had girlfriends in the past, she does absolutely nothing to/for me in bed. On top of that, the times that we've hung out and talked, she and I just haven't "clicked." I find her somewhat annoying and immature. So there's really nothing for me there. He is still somehow interested (even though she just lays there like a dead fish, how is that any fun??) and I gave him the blessing to hang out with her one night when I was at work. Well I thought it was going to be okay with me, but throughout the night, I was just worrying myself sick. I can't even pinpoint why, but I know I felt like complete shit. I knew where they were and what they were doing, and had given my okay for him to have sex with her. But it just killed me inside.

I think that a big part of the problem was that because we met at work and work together every other day except Thursdays, when he has off and I have to work, so being at work while he's at home fucking another girl, is really really hard for me because everything I do at work reminds me of him! I can't help but think that if I was working a job that had nothing to do with him I would be able to focus on that and put him and her out of my mind and not worry all night.

The thing is that they oh-so-conveniently both have one day off a week, which is Thursday, when I have to work. So the next week I told him he could hang out with her, but just this time not to be sexual with her, so that I could reassure myself that it is still alright with me for him to hang out with her without me. And it was fine. I went home after work and didn't feel shitty.

But now he wants to be able to do it again this Thursday, and I don't know if I'm ready. He claims that I am trying to sabotage his chances with her because I'm not crazy about her. Not true. I just don't want to be stuck at work while he's doing that. I want it to be that he goes and does her when I am out doing something (not necessarily with my lover, even just with friends) so that I don't have to think about it the whole time.

Also, I know that he doesn't want me to get into any type of relationship with another guy. A one-night stand or two is fine, but he's not comfortable with me being more than just fuck buddies with any male. With females, he doesn't care if I get close to them. So this is another issue, because if it were up to me he would not get close to other girls. But, as he has pointed out, and I know it is true, that it is way harder for men to get laid without getting to know the person first. So I guess I kind of have to just let him build relationships with his fuck buddies because otherwise I'm making rules that only suit me. This I realize but I am having a hard time coming to terms with it.

So I realize that our situation is not exactly polyamorous.. but it's not really swinging either. We both know that traditional monogamy isn't the right path for us, but we are having trouble forging a different path that will work for us, and we don't know where to turn for advice. If you read this, please tell me any insights you might have, and remember that we're new at this!

Main question: Is it unfair or unrealistic for me to say that he can't fuck her while I'm at work? That he can only do it while I'm out doing something social as well?

Thanks for reading! And I'll answer any questions you may have if this post needs clarification.

[GalaGirl]

Main question: Is it unfair or unrealistic for me to say that he can't fuck her while I'm at work? That he can only do it while I'm out doing something social as well?

Yes, unfair and unrealistic. His relationships are his to run on HIS time, not yours.

If he is doing things in your SHARED time and not being present with you (ex: on a date with YOU he starts texting all crazy all night with another honey) then that's another thing.

I just don't want to be stuck at work while he's doing that. I want it to be that he goes and does her when I am out doing something (not necessarily with my lover, even just with friends) so that I don't have to think about it the whole time.

And what if you go out with friends and still keep on thinking about them? The prob is not where your BODY is. It is where your MIND is.

Why does your MIND keep going there?

GG

[AnnabelMore]

It seems like for most people this is always hardest the first time, makes little difference where/when it happens. Chances are very good that it will get easier. Don't you think you'd be just as jealous if he were taking time away from you to be with her, maybe even more jealous? At least this way it doesn't impact the amount of time that you and he can spend together.

I do feel compelled to say that feelings happen when you least expect them. You both may want to consider working on loosening your restrictions on developing actual relationships with other people now -- him too, not just you -- before someone ends up feeling betrayed. After all, how many bfs/gfs start as casual flings? Feelings happen.

Great resources on dealing with jealousy here: www.morethantwo.com

Good luck!

[Violet1]

Thanks for the responses. I don't know why my mind goes there? I know I am supposed to get the the root of the jealousy, but that's not even really the feeling I experience when he's with her while I'm at work. Its just this awful feeling in my stomach. It's not because I am worried she will take him away, it's not because I think that she's better in bed than I am, I just can't pinpoint what the issue is. I don't know how to get over this feeling. I've read all the literature I can find, including the morethantwo.com stuff. I wonder if I should try harder to like her? Maybe me and her should spend some time together? But I don't even really want to do that, because she's annoying!

[katja24]

I can empathize with your situation. I think one of the most important things to do first is to validate your own feelings. They might not be rational or logical or "fair" to your bf, but they are your feelings. I think it is also admirable that you can recognize how your feelings are impacting your physical health. I, too, feel my feelings not just in my head but in my whole body, and anxiety/insecurity/feeling excluded all go straight for my stomach.

I understand your wanting to be able to also be engaged socially (or at least mentally while at work) while he is, too. That is my preferred mode of experiencing separate dates and partners. But I think it is also extremely important to realize that this probably is not very realistic to do this long-term. And I think what AnnabelMore said may help you out: recognizing that at least the time he spends with her while you are at work isn't taking time away from the time you can spend with him. I think you could also request that while you two are together, he isn't taking time away from you to be texting/calling/emailing her.

It is also very important for me to at least respect my partner's secondary partners. If you think she is annoying, perhaps that is getting in the way of your ability to go with the flow. But I would recommend thinking about it this way: if you and your bf are usually on the same page about friends and other people in your lives, then at some point her annoying tendencies will get to your bf as well. You just need to ride the wave, and let him reach his own conclusions in his own time. (Of course you also need to see the possibility of this person staying around longer-term)

I think it will be important for the two of you to also address what each of you is allowed to do. If you want relationships, and not just one-night stands, with other men, then you have the responsibility to tell your bf that.

[Nudibranch]

I don't see how it's "unfair" to ask for what you need. Or maybe it's "unfair," but love is "unfair."

Your boyfriend should, I'd think, want to introduce and conduct his polyrelationships in a way that ease you into all needed transitions. Sometimes those transitions involve having to cope with and resolve feelings. In my view, THAT is the point of polyrelating--the relating, not the poly.

To put it another way, your jealousy isn't the issue I see. I can think of a hundred reasons why I might not want to be out struggling to earn a living while my partner was playing afternoon delight. I can't imagine having, or keeping, a significant other who lacked the self-control and maturity to consider my feelings in that way.

Obviously I'm not suggesting that your unexamined, unprocessed jealousy get and keep the upper hand. And of course I am making these judgments from the standpoint of a very long-standing primary relationship (over twenty years, with nearly twelve of marriage). If you are wanting to set limits in a newer or more casual relationship with someone that are good for you, but the other person is balking, that may also be a sign that it's not the right relationship for you. One of the things that polyrelating can teach a person is that it's really not for you, or not for you with this particular person. And that's OK. It doesn't make you a less evolved, or less "edge" person. You can get that in other ways.

[GalaGirl]

Skip what you feel. You feel whatever it is when you feel it.

Maybe you even feel annoyed he likes her when YOU do not and you have to deal with the fact that your BF's taste in partners is sometimes meh to you. *shrug*

We don't choose to feel feelings. They just are. What we choose is how to behave in response to those feelings -- react or act with intent.

I suggest you focus more on knowing and articulating your needs.

What do you need from him that is realistic and reasonable?
What do you need from yourself that is realistic and reasonable?


And to be honest, on some level I think it probably bugs you that while YOU cannot have more than fun flings on your side of the equation -- he can and is developing something more with this woman you don't even like. So how come you cannot with someone you DO like? For yourself?

Sort that out. Because while he's trying to limit YOU in that arena, you are now wanting to limit HIM in another.

A couple limit you BOTH agree to is an agreement you both agree to.

Limits imposed on others against their will/without their signing up for that? That is going to feel yucky.


GG

[Violet1]

Thanks so much everyone for taking the time to respond. I am already feeling like I have a better handle on things. I would like to keep the conversation going if I can..

I can empathize with your situation. I think one of the most important things to do first is to validate your own feelings. They might not be rational or logical or "fair" to your bf, but they are your feelings.

Thanks for that, I think both of us need to remember that. Just upon reading it, I realized, yeah, why am I beating myself up about feeling what I feel? They are valid emotions that can be worked through. I think on his end, he needs to remember to validate my feelings as well, and not to allow me to think that I'm wrong in what I feel, even though its inconvenient for him.


And what if you go out with friends and still keep on thinking about them?

I understand your wanting to be able to also be engaged socially (or at least mentally while at work) while he is, too. That is my preferred mode of experiencing separate dates and partners. But I think it is also extremely important to realize that this probably is not very realistic to do this long-term.

It feels good that at least someone shares my point with wanting to be engaged socially.The reason why I would prefer it that way is because we have done that, where he goes out with her and I go out separately, and it has been a much better experience for me. That way, both of us don't feel like the other should be texting them more, or feel guilty that we don't have time to send texts to the other, because we're both engaged socially. That is part of the issue. In the past when I've had to work and he doesn't, he texts back and forth with me all night because he knows how boring our job can be.

I understand that the ideal is that I don't get to dictate when and how he conducts his relationships, but we're not poly veterans here. This is very new to us, and I don't think it is wrong for us to have some boundaries as we work our way into this relationship style, and as Nudibranch said, he should be wanting to help me cope with transitions as needed. I do understand that it's not realistic to expect that this always be the case, but as I said, we're new to this.

I can think of a hundred reasons why I might not want to be out struggling to earn a living while my partner was playing afternoon delight. I can't imagine having, or keeping, a significant other who lacked the self-control and maturity to consider my feelings in that way.

EXACTLY. And yes, my unprocessed jealousy shouldn't get and keep the upper hand. But thank you for articulating what I couldn't find the words for.

It is also very important for me to at least respect my partner's secondary partners. If you think she is annoying, perhaps that is getting in the way of your ability to go with the flow. But I would recommend thinking about it this way: if you and your bf are usually on the same page about friends and other people in your lives, then at some point her annoying tendencies will get to your bf as well. You just need to ride the wave, and let him reach his own conclusions in his own time. (Of course you also need to see the possibility of this person staying around longer-term)

I am probably having trouble going with the flow because yeah I'm not crazy about her. I guess the thing is that he has said also that he thinks she is a bit annoying, immature, and whiny. Maybe he is just agreeing with me for the sake of agreeing. But this is what I got out of what he's said: He's 34 (she and I are both 22), and he isn't going to have that many more opportunities to sleep with a hot young woman. (besides me I guess? ;P) Which I can understand. And he's kind of shy and I know it's hard for him to talk to ladies, so since she came onto him he probably feels he needs to hang onto her. Maybe my issue is that I am surprised at seeing him behave as more of a typical man, willing to put up with the annoyingness in order to have sexual access. I haven't seen that side of him.

And to be honest, on some level I think it probably bugs you that while YOU cannot have more than fun flings on your side of the equation -- he can and is developing something more with this woman you don't even like. So how come you cannot with someone you DO like? For yourself?

Yes, it totally bugs me. Because I can't have more than a fling with a man. I can and do have a very good girl friend of a couple of years that I have had a crush on for ever, and I am pretty sure she feels the same, we just haven't quite gotten to the next level yet. And he's completely fine with me having this love for my best friend that I'm interested in pursuing.

Because while he's trying to limit YOU in that arena, you are now wanting to limit HIM in another.

Well, yeah. He says I can't have a relationship with a guy, and I say he can't fuck her while I'm at work. I would really like to be able to have the option of actually getting to know the guy I'm sleeping with. But I am okay with giving that up. So shouldn't he be willing to give up having sex with her while I'm at work? Or should we both learn to let go of those boundaries altogether?

[Violet1]

So I've gone over most of the posts here with him, and he pointed out that I missed a part of the situation. While he works 4 days during the week with me at the job I've mentioned, he also gets paid to play in a band every weekend. They perform every Friday and Saturday. A lot of times I go with and watch, but not always. There have been times that he is out at a gig and I have made other social plans, either platonic or romantic. He says there is no difference, but I think there is, because when I'm at work I'm sitting at a desk doing mundane paperwork, etc. And when he's at work on the weekends, he's at a bar, with his bandmates, and is able to drink and socialize on set breaks. The night he met this girl was a night she was tending bar at the place they were playing. So he even has chances to meet women when he's at his "work." The problem lies in that those damned Thursdays are the only night he has off between the two jobs. I feel like at this point, I have to pretty much just let him do whatever, and just deal with feeling like shit. Which isn't a good position to be in, but what other option do I have?

[Avy]

(Disclaimer: Newbie here with zero polyamory experience).

When I read your posts, I'm not hearing jealousy; I'm hearing envy.

He's getting to have more fun than you. Example 1: He had more fun with the girl, while you got bored of her (less fun). Example 2: He only has to work "4 days" at the job, and you work an extra day that he has off.

Does that resonate? If so, maybe the solution isn't to try to find a way for him to have less fun, but for you to find a way to have more fun?

[Cleo]

He says there is no difference, but I think there is, because when I'm at work I'm sitting at a desk doing mundane paperwork, etc. And when he's at work on the weekends, he's at a bar, with his bandmates, and is able to drink and socialize on set breaks. The night he met this girl was a night she was tending bar at the place they were playing. So he even has chances to meet women when he's at his "work."

you have chances to meet people at work, you met him there, right :) ? (sorry - nitpicking, or maybe not, because I do recognize the workings of your brain in this. )

The problem lies in that those damned Thursdays are the only night he has off between the two jobs. I feel like at this point, I have to pretty much just let him do whatever, and just deal with feeling like shit. Which isn't a good position to be in, but what other option do I have?

could it be true that you just don't want him to have sex with her, period? that the timing doesn't really matter? Because if he can't have sex with her on his one night off, then when would he have sex with her? It seems like your boundary is a veto in disguise.

Again, something I recognize and have done numerous times. I created and asked for boundaries and then wondered why I was still upset, when my husband respected my boundaries.

If you can accept the fact that he wants to spend time with someone you don't like, wants to have sex with someone you don't like, when you accept that you don't really uderstand him when it comes to his relationship with this girl (and not understanding can feel like such a huge threat), then, I think, the where and when of there sex life won't matter much anymore.

[GalaGirl]

This is very new to us, and I don't think it is wrong for us to have some boundaries as we work our way into this relationship style, and as Nudibranch said, he should be wanting to help me cope with transitions as needed.

It's ok to be new. It's ok to have some boundaries -- but the boundaries must be arrived at together and agreed to. Otherwise you are paving the way to broken boundaries and more upset.

In my universe, (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794) you do the have the right to support and nurture from your partner.

So. In THIS situation. Do the drill with your partner... something like:


I feel yucky on your dates on Thursday. (Given.)
Because...

You are not available to me and I miss you texting me a lot to alleviate the boredom of my job.
I am upset that you get the right to develop meaningful relationships with Another and I am not given the same equal right. I am being limited to fuckbuddies/only women.
(Other reason not yet listed?)

I need (what?) from you over the next X weeks to help me acclimate to this new thing/change in my routine with you dating. Then let's check in to see where we are both at. (Do place time limit to next check in. Expecting him not to date on thurs forever is not realistic, asking him to chill for a few weeks might be doable.)

I need (what?) from myself over the next X weeks to help me acclimate to this new thing/change in my routine with you dating.

Does what I ask sound reasonable? Do you have other suggestions for how you can support me in this time of change?


I'm offering you critique type feedback on your situation, not criticism of you. I'm also encouraging you to keep on thinking.


The problem lies in that those damned Thursdays are the only night he has off between the two jobs. I feel like at this point, I have to pretty much just let him do whatever, and just deal with feeling like shit. Which isn't a good position to be in, but what other option do I have?

Possible solutions?

Suck it up. Some things are not immediately solvable other than the passage of time and getting used to it. Hell, if even HE says she is annoying, perhaps he breaks up with her in a few months. Then prob is solved, no?

Stop putting yourself in the situation where you feel like shit and change something about it that you actually have input in. Work with the BF on what would be welcome change.


Change job.
Change BF.
Change something else -- like change your mind or change how you and BF handle conflict resolution.
Or change some of your relationship agreements -- esp the unfair one! Or whether or not you are even Open if it isn't working out.
Change the expectation of BF to entertain you with texts when you are at work. Text someone else. Bring a book to read.


Experiment to see what will work for you or not. It's a learning process.

Hang in there!

GG

[Tonberry]

Seems to me it's perfect: you're at work, so already busy and you don't have to stay at home worrying about him or feeling lonely, and he wouldn't have been able to spend that time with you anyways so it's not taking anything away from you. Much better than if he wanted to see her a day you both have off.

[turtleHeart]

The main time Ginko and I see other people is when the other is at work, that way it doesn't cut into the time we have together so much. I'd be more apt to be bothered if she were seeing someone in the limited time we could be with each other. I guess it's different for everyone. It does get a bit easier over time, provided you both have good results in seeing other people and you respect each other's boundaries whatever they may be.

It's fine to have no sexual interest in your bf's other partners. What might need to be looked at is the double standard of him expecting you to only have one night stands with the opposite gender while he can build separate relationships.

[ThatGirlInGray]

Seems to me it's perfect: you're at work, so already busy and you don't have to stay at home worrying about him or feeling lonely, and he wouldn't have been able to spend that time with you anyways so it's not taking anything away from you. Much better than if he wanted to see her a day you both have off.

But if work is boring, rather than busy, and lonely, such that they can spend a ton of time texting back and forth, then it IS taking something away- his company via text while she gets through her shift. It's certainly no better than being at home. It's worse, because you HAVE to stay awake rather than going to bed, and focus on getting paperwork done rather than vegging out to a movie with a stiff drink, etc.

If I'm reading correctly, they don't HAVE a day off together. They both work Sun-Wed, she works Thurs, he works Fri and Sat. But when he's at work without her, he's having fun, able to socialize and even drink. Quite different than the environment she's in when she's at work without him.

I quite understand why Violet feels the way she does. It SUCKS to be the one at work while the other gets to go have fun, especially when you don't have opportunities for similar fun. It may be perfect for some but that in no way means it's perfect for everyone.

I haven't decided yet if I think asking him to refrain from sex while she's at work is fair or unfair yet. My initial reaction is, as long as there are other times when he can sleep with the other person (while Violet is out socializing or whatever) then skipping Thursdays shouldn't be a big deal. That should be workable. But I haven't finished thinking it through, so I reserve the right to change my mind.

[BoringGuy]

If you can't define " co-dependent" but know it when you see it? That's what i'm seeing.

I don't understand why people bother with non-monogamy if everything has to be about keeping track of who is having more fun. It's been my observation and experience that emtional non-monogamy (as compared with physical non-monogamy such as swinging) is better suited for people who enjoy spending time with themselves, whether alone or in the company of others, as opposed to people who require constant companionship in order to not feel inadequate or alone.

tl;dr OP, learn to be your own best friend and i promise you, this problem will magically disappear.

[YouAreHere]

OP, learn to be your own best friend and i promise you, this problem will magically disappear.

That said, it is EXTREMELY hard to take this advice if you don't get there yourself. When my partner said it to me, it felt like I was being dismissively told to "go find something to do". It took a full day of not having him or the kids around to see that I really didn't know what to do with myself (it didn't help that I was not all that long out of my marriage and didn't have time to figure that out before getting into a relationship with my partner).

That sudden, stark realization was extremely painful, but it was a hell of a motivator... I am NOT nothing when I have nobody to be with. So who am I and what do I like to do?

But I had to hit that wall myself, unfortunately. Hopefully you don't have to quite go through the same process... Good luck!

[Violet1]

Seriously guys, thank you, all of you, for the insight. I may not agree with everyone but I really do appreciate the perspective. I feel like I should compose some more responses to the posts that have been made... But I can't at this moment.. Because I am dealing with a new development that I really didn't see coming and I'm sad, hurt, and having trouble coping.

So I should say that in addition to the information that I've given in regards to our work situation, it may be relevant to know that we work the night shift (11pm-7am).

After reading this thread together and discussing it, I was feeling a hell of a lot better about it. I was still a bit uneasy, but I was about ready to say yeah, I am truly okay with this. Part of it is because I know that indeed, he doesn't really have a lot of other opportunities besides Thursday nights to see her. And yes, since I'm at work it technically doesn't take time away from me, even though as it was pointed out, I am used to him texting with me so it kind of is. BUT I had reconciled myself with that fact.

All Thursday morning after work, I was asking if he had talked to her, and he said he hadn't and that they probably weren't going to hang out. I came into the room to go to sleep and his phone was on the floor and lit up, so I picked it up and put it on the table, and I saw the conversation open was with the other girl (I will call her J), and I didn't read it, I just asked him what they were talking about. He said he texted her saying he wouldn't be able to hang out because he has a pimple (his attempt at a joke?). And I knew she replied but I didn't ask about it, and he didn't say anything about it either.

Then we went to sleep. He woke up before I did and went to go make up some food for me to take to work. He woke me up before I needed to be awake, and as I was telling him to let me sleep for the extra half hour, he said he was leaving to go pick her up. I was a little weirded out, but I was sleepy and just asked what they were going to do. He said they were just going to go out to eat. He could tell I wasn't real happy, so he reassured me that he would keep to the boundaries I had set in the first place, before ANY of this happened. The boundaries were that he would have her home early (2 am at the latest, because the first time he was up all night with her until 6 am and then he was shitty the next day to me because he had no sleep. So that's the compromise) and that they wouldn't be in our bedroom or in our bed. So he left, and I wasn't able to go back to sleep since he woke me up with that delightful news, so I got up and went to work. He texted me at about 12:30 saying he was taking her home. I texted back asking what they did. He said they had two beers at a bar and then went back to our place and "got a little naughty." So I called him, wanting to know details. I am the type of person that needs to know details so I don't make things up in my imagination, and he knows this because I have specifically told him so. I had to prod him for details. He finally told me they had sex, which in itself actually didn't bother me too much because I figured that would happen. But then I asked where they did it, and he said, "in the bed, but I'm washing the sheets!"

I am devastated and furious and hurt. I made it clear to him that our bed was OUR bed and if we had a threesome in it together, that's one thing, but I don't feel comfortable with him having sex with her or anyone else without me there. And I've agreed to the same, I won't have sex with anyone else in our bed either. When he had woken me up, he had said, "don't worry, we won't even come in here." And when I was talking to him on the phone hearing about what happened, I asked him why he thought that was okay. He said that because when he said it, I didn't really respond. I WAS ASLEEP. I told him that he knew that was the deal, and he didn't need me to reaffirm it. Also, I don't know for sure, but the way things went down, I think that he asked her to hang out, even though he had told me that he didn't think they would. I feel so awful now. I had trusted him so incredibly much, and now its been shattered. This is a huge step backwards. I might have to tell him that we need to close our relationship for a while.

I've tried to look on the links to threads worth reading and the other resources on this site, but I can't seem to find any the specifically deal with how to handle when your partner crosses a boundary. I don't even want to go home this morning (I get off in 2 hours) but I have nowhere else to go. He's going to be sleeping like a baby when I get home and I'm going to want to clock him. Just kidding. Maybe.

He knew the rules! And also I texted her telling her that there was an issue, and he had not even told her that this was part of the negotiation. I thought this man was such an honest, trustworthy person that actually cared about my feelings and was able to suspend the "thinking with the dick" in order to preserve the awesome thing he has going with ME... But I'm so lost now.

If someone can try to give me insight into not thinking he's a complete fucking monster douchebag, helping me see his side, or helping me cope with this, I will be eternally grateful.

:(

[Violet1]

Also, his excuse for going in the bedroom was because we have a friend staying with us at our house until she can move into her new place. She is staying in the basement, which is very private. She's been staying there for a little over a week and we have seen her come upstairs maybe twice. Also, she had just gotten home from working all day so it's pretty likely that she had gone to bed. I do not think it is a valid reason, and even if it was, he could have consulted me and asked if I would be okay with it because of the circumstances.

[GalaGirl]

I'm sorry. :(

You were just emotionally catching up to the concept of them dating, and now he goes and crosses boundaries you guys put in place and agreed to and you are emotionally upset again.

And why spring this on you while you are trying to get to sleep/get to work times? This is NOT the best times for relationship management conversation. It can fuck up your sleep and it can fuck up your performance at work. (This may need to be a limit thing.)

When you talk to him about all this, one technique could be reframing it in the positive since he can't hack it framed the other way. For instance, instead of saying "Do not have sex in our bed" say "Sex in bed is off limits. Sex on couch ok. Sex at her house is ok." Everything that IS. Because that tells him where to go that is ok. So go THERE already... where it is ok to go.

If you tell someone they can't have the OJ and leave it there, it's not telling what they CAN have out of your fridge to drink. Much easier to go "OJ is off limits. Have milk is ok. Have soda is ok. Have tea is ok."

But in my universe, (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794) that's a 1 strike. He's gotta straighten up because it's 3 strikes you are out on the same issue. The boundary breaking problem. (And I hope he's wearing a condom!)

GG

[Cleo]

that sucks.

How is he responding to the fact that you're hurt and upset?
Does he understand that he broke a boundary? Does he try to understand why it's so upsetting for you?

My husband broke a major boundary (with his GF, who I don't like, so - similar situation).

I could not for the life of me understand why he did that. My kind, considerate, caring husband. Turns out that even though we had specifically talked about the boundary, he still managed to interpret it in such a way, that he did not feel that he did anything wrong when he broke it. Which was SO frustrating. It took many many hours of conversation before he finally GOT it, that the boundary meant something different to me than it meant to him, and only then could he truly apologize and could I truly accept his apology.

I guess what I'm saying is that even though you say things like "i made this clear to him" and "he knows this, we talked about it" it could still be that you don't have the exact same view about the rules and boundaries. I found this out the hard way! With new boundaries, I am MUCH more cautious, I explain what I want and why I want it and I think of all possible caveats, and I make my husband repeat what I said which seems incredibly childish but you would not believe how many times someone will repeat what you said and repeat it wrong... because people will hear what they want to hear, especially when they want to have sex. ;)

so, while it's ok to think he's a fucking monster douchebag for now, while you're hurting, he is also just a human being who messed up. It all depends on how he is willing to deal with the messing up, and if he's willing to trust YOU more (because the secrecy about meeting or not meeting her, feels like lack of trust to me)

Good luck, it's not a very nice situation, I know :(

[Violet1]

Thank you GalaGirl and Cleo for the empathetic responses. I got home about an hour ago and he was actually sleeping on the couch, and had our bed all made up.. I was planning on coming home and sleeping on the couch since I'm so upset with him. So either he just passed out there or he was anticipating my not wanting to sleep with him today.

It's hard to tell if he was actually considering how much this hurt me when we talked on the phone last night, because yes he was apologetic but only after I started crying to him. You know how men get when girls cry, they just want to say anything to make it stop. But he had also had some beers and I'm sure he was high as well, and there was a point in the conversation where he actually laughed at what I was saying. I hung up on him because I was expressing my hurt to him and he laughed!!! But it could be the product of the beer/weed.

He was the one that came up with the "no sex with others in our bed" boundary, when we were first talking (in the beginning of our relationship) about how we would go about the whole thing. So I don't understand why he felt it was okay to do that, when HE was the one who brought it up in the first place. Not only that, but he had reassured me right before he went out with her that they would not go in our bedroom.

He is going out of town this weekend to play with the band, and wanted me to come with, and wasn't sure if I would because I have a lot of homework, but I'm sure not going now...

[Violet1]

I kind of have to wonder if she was the one pushing him to go into the bedroom... I don't want to create an imaginary scenario of her being the bad guy but... Even if that were the case he should have said no, that's off limits.

[Violet1]

Also, I'm the one who came into this wanting it to be open and he was accepting but hesitant to the idea. So now he's obviously warmed up to it but one would think that he would be even more careful about boundaries since he was the one that had all the qualms about it in the first place.

[Cleo]

It's hard to tell if he was actually considering how much this hurt me when we talked on the phone last night, because yes he was apologetic but only after I started crying to him. You know how men get when girls cry, they just want to say anything to make it stop. But he had also had some beers and I'm sure he was high as well, and there was a point in the conversation where he actually laughed at what I was saying. I hung up on him because I was expressing my hurt to him and he laughed!!! But it could be the product of the beer/weed.



Yes, that is strange, that he came up with the boundary and now broke it.

About the girl: don't think about her, or if she made him do it, or whatever. His agreements with you are between the 2 of you.

But 1 piece of advice.. and god knows I have not followed this advice many many times... but wish I had: don't have the big, emotional discussions when drunk or high or sleep deprived... Really. Don't do it. Wait till you're both sober and rested. It's difficult enough without the extra drama that intoxication brings.

Maybe it's good that you'll spend some time apart, but make a date for when he comes back, to really sit down and talk about stuff.

[Vinccenzo]

Also, I'm the one who came into this wanting it to be open and he was accepting but hesitant to the idea. So now he's obviously warmed up to it but one would think that he would be even more careful about boundaries since he was the one that had all the qualms about it in the first place.

Ahhh, perhaps a bit of the ole "well this is what you wanted right? How you liking it now?" angle.

[redpepper]

I haven't read the whole thread here, so excuse me if there are some repeats in what I say. Hopefully it will back up someones point if I did repeat.

I wonder if you are struggling with this because sex between two can be more intimate. They are spending alone time together doing something very bonding. Perhaps your fear is that he could fall in love. Or she could with him. Bingo, polyamory (otherwise I would refer to what you have as an open marriage). It seems to me that after several times and his continued desire that love might be the case.

It seems that its become a matter of her being in your life and everything adjusting to that. You can't make them do anything, but you can ask they be gentle with your feelings, be patient and go slowly. Pacing is so important. That and talk. A lot! Communicating everything that comes up for you and listening to what comes up for them is key.

[AutumnalTone]

To put it another way, your jealousy isn't the issue I see. I can think of a hundred reasons why I might not want to be out struggling to earn a living while my partner was playing afternoon delight. I can't imagine having, or keeping, a significant other who lacked the self-control and maturity to consider my feelings in that way.


ANd from his point of view, he can say "I can't imagine having, or keeping, a significant other who lacked the self-control and maturity to deal with her own issues and instead tried to control my other relationships."

From here, it appears the jealousy isn't the issue, it's the expectation that she gets to control his other relationships that is the issue. And I can't imagine having, or keeping, a partner who tried to use her issues to control my other relationships.

[km34]

ANd from his point of view, he can say "I can't imagine having, or keeping, a significant other who lacked the self-control and maturity to deal with her own issues and instead tried to control my other relationships."

From here, it appears the jealousy isn't the issue, it's the expectation that she gets to control his other relationships that is the issue. And I can't imagine having, or keeping, a partner who tried to use her issues to control my other relationships.

I find this interesting... How is requesting that sex not happen in HER bed controlling his other relationships? She says that she was working through the issues with them having sex in general while she was at work (since she realized that it's unrealistic/unfair), but not using the bed was a hard limit. Condemning someone for that seems rather harsh.

[YouAreHere]

I find this interesting... How is requesting that sex not happen in HER bed controlling his other relationships? She says that she was working through the issues with them having sex in general while she was at work (since she realized that it's unrealistic/unfair), but not using the bed was a hard limit. Condemning someone for that seems rather harsh.

Wondering if this is in response to the original question (having sex while the OP was at work) and not the latest posts?

IMO, the original request may work best as a soft limit with a time attached to it ("Can you guys not have sex while I'm at work for the next couple weeks until I work out why I'm so twigged by it?"), but I think that's all been eclipsed by the current breach of boundaries. To the OP, I'm sorry this is happening... Hugs and positive vibes going your way!

[nycindie]

I find this interesting... How is requesting that sex not happen in HER bed controlling his other relationships? . . . Condemning someone for that seems rather harsh.

KM, as I see AT's post, he was responding to Nudibranch's comment much further up the thread, so it is referring to the original question -- before the whole "they had sex in our bed" situation happened.

Violet1, I felt the same thing about the question you originally posted, and your logic about it. I thought that you simply wanted to maintain some sense of control over a situation that you had not quite resolved in yourself, and weren't actually okay with.

And now that a boundary was broken, it feels even more crazy and out of control. I think, though, that besides the rebuilding of trust that your boyfriend needs to do, you still have lots of work to do in order to really feel okay with poly. To me, when you said he woke you with "the delightful news," beyond the fact that you were awakened out of a sound sleep, your sarcasm made it clear that you wouldn't have wanted him fucking her alone no matter when or where it happens, even though you tell yourself you were okay with it. Your remark was like "joking on the square" -- it showed your true feelings. I had a sense from reading your first post that one major reason you want to participate is to keep an eye on him and feel like you have a handle on it all.

My sense is that neither of you are quite ready to manage the intricacies of poly just yet. Your task is dealing with letting go of the reins and trusting that you don't need to micromanage his dick in order to feel like your relationship is solid, and he needs to act with integrity in order to regain your trust and move forward.