View Full Version : Wants to try again..
08-20-2012, 04:36 PM
Quick background and update for those who dont know..
Hubs suggested trying poly(not swinging because I have to have emotional attachment before sex) He didnt want anyone else(stated MANY times) Talked about it for almost 2 years before I said ok. I hooked up with my ex who I never stopped loving. And 6 months later he decided that he couldnt live like this. Wanted me to himself(which wasnt gonna happen) and also didnt like others knowing about the relationship.. (another thing I refused to lie or hide) so he called it off. Ex and I do still talk but thats it.
Well after Ex left, hubs started acting like a jerk, Everything I opened up about with him was thrown in my face like I was wrong. Then he set up a acct to find him someone and hid it. When I found it he lied. After I told him I knew and found it, He finally admitted. But then did not speak to me for the next 8 months.. Yes 8 MONTHS we lived together but didnt speak except to ask whats for dinner and if kids had behaved. Finally on our 13 year wedding anniversary I told him I couldnt live like this anymore. And I guess my saying I wanted a divorce, was a ass kicker. He apologized and said he did it all out of spite. He was angry at me but doesnt know why. But he didnt want me to go and decided to finally make some changes.
One was his job. For 10 years he worked at this place and each year was worse than the first. The last 6 have been awful. SO he started looking and found something that was totally out of the field he was in, and is now a lot happier there.
Two, communication. He now talks to me a LOT more.
Three- Hes being a better dad. Hes there for the kids more than ever. We even brought the kids back homeschooled.
Our relationship is almost back to where it was. A lot of the hold up is me. Because Im nervous it will happen again even though he swears it wont. He says he now knows what to expect and that he wont ever betray me like that again.(Lying is one of those things I CANT stand) And a couple weeks ago he asked me to find myself a bf again. I told him it was something I was afraid of doing because of the fear he will use things against me again. Its very hard for me to open up. So I keep saying I dont know. He finally convinced me to put my Okcupid back up. I did. Even though most people seem to just want to screw a married chick. Which annoys me.
Its hard to find someone who understands I have kids that will come first(I dealt with this last time) One guy pestered me to no end. Even wanted me to skip out on one kids stuff to meet. I canned that one quick.
Hubs and I talked a lot about the kind of relationship we both had in mind. And what he wants and I agree, is a V type relationship with me as the hinge. A polyfidelitous relationship. We both want someone who will be friends with hubs as well as friend, lover possible spouse to me. How hard is this??? It doesnt seem to be the norm in poly relationships. I tried dating after ex left.. My luck I started talking to someone who wanted that type of relationship.. He ended up being into child porn and is now on the run from the law(NOT what I want to get involved in!!!) That crap is freaky. I dont know how to really date.. My ex and my hubs I have known since I was 14 lol. It just was. Where do you find people to fall in love with? I mean.. Im a Stay at home, homeschooling mom. I dont get out much anymore.
Any suggestions? or insight on what to do next?
08-21-2012, 06:19 AM
Our relationship is almost back to where it was. A lot of the hold up is me. Because Im nervous it will happen again even though he swears it wont. He says he now knows what to expect and that he wont ever betray me like that again.(Lying is one of those things I CANT stand) And a couple weeks ago he asked me to find myself a bf again. I told him it was something I was afraid of doing because of the fear he will use things against me again. Its very hard for me to open up. So I keep saying I dont know
You do not sound enthused.
It's great he's gotten a better job, better with kids, communicating with you now. But that is just behaving like a basic human being. Nothing stellar. Nothing extraordinary. After 8 mos of unexplained spiteful treatment? That doesn't mean you are good to Open yet!
Why jump ahead to dating probs? You have rship prob still maybe. These things...
He created an account and lied?
He stops speaking to you for 8 mos because of spite?
He was angry and did not know WHY and did not want to investigate this with you?
Was that anger thing ever resolved to your mutual satisfaction?
It takes you asking for divorce for him to change a stinky job, do right by the kids, and talk to you like a regular person?
WHY did all that happen? I don't get a sense of that in your post. Those are just swept under rug now?
He behaves like a wall of silence from SPITE, then finally starts being basic human again.
And this just makes it all better? I do not hear the probs were actually addressed, talked about, explained and you still feel emotionally unsafe and unsure.
Why does he want you to find a BF so bad? What his reason on that?
Is that the gateway to him having a GF? If he wants a GF -- isn't it easier for him to ask you if that is ok?
What is the reasoning to Open at this time?
What if you say "Thanks, but no thanks. I'm done with that poly scene. I just want you." Could he be ok there? Could you?
Do you want this? To Open?
I guess I'm not seeing that you have repaired you relationship well enough to Open again and do it well. You aren't either if you are posting here about it.
08-21-2012, 02:11 PM
Its not that Im not excited. I am just afraid that once again I would be treated like crap.
He got the account out of spite. He seemed to think it would make him happier during all the stress he was under..(I still dont understand that one since I was the one at home dealing with kids, activities, doc appt, school, my job.. and his job and stress)
He says he stopped speaking because he didnt know what to say to me. He knew he screwed up by lying. And didnt know how to fix it. So he just went day to day hoping I would be less mad and talk to him. Instead I got madder. Because I felt like he lied to me and it became my fault. And his refusal to speak to me was proof of that in my mind. Of course he said those 8 months were hell on him too. He admits to throwing me away but not knowing how to get me back..
He was angry about a lot of stuff and took it out on me. The sad thing.. the stuff he was angry about.. didnt even have anything to do with me. That has been dealt with.
I think when I said it was time to divorce.. was more a kick in the ass to him. He knew I was serious. I cant live in the same house with someone who refused to speak. We had a scream fest that night. And the next day our 9 year old was taken to the ER which ensued a month of dealing with him. During that time we started working together. And he knew being afraid of change wasnt helping him. He complained about his job all the time. It was keeping his blood pressure pretty high. Hell we couldnt have a decent weekend because of his stress. But he was afraid to change. And honestly.. for him to stop bitching and start doing.. Is a major step lol. He used to be really good with the kids. (like now) But during that 8 months he wasnt a part of our lives. He withdrew out of it. The kids just kinda stayed away. We pretty much did our own thing. And he sat there.
Believe me.. after I asked for the divorce. I yelled a lot. He cried I screamed. He was(and is becoming again) my best friend. I have been friends with him for 20 years. He knows me better than anyone. And he admits to screwing up something major. LIke I told him... I would have gotten over the lie long ago. But when he quit talking.. It just made it worse. And made me feel worse. Because I had to process everything alone. Which you know when you do the problem can get bigger and bigger. Since I snapped(And I really did) Things were rough because I didnt want to believe him. I didnt want to listen.But he sat there and cried as I told him exactly what it did to me. And let him process that. I let out 8 months of frustration. And then I cried. Which I hadnt done in months. Because I became quite numb.
No things werent perfect. I still wouldnt let him touch me. Because to touch you have to trust. He started doing little things. Sending me texts, helping around the house. Leaving me notes. You could see he was trying. I was being the brick wall on it. I was more focused on d. He spent the first week of hubs and I starting to talk, at home injured. So he was my focus. But hubs actually dropped a lot at work to come take us back and forth to doctors. The next few weeks were easier. I finally started to relax and then my brain wouldnt let me. I was still scared of letting myself back out of the box I put myself in. The 9 year old had to have surgery, and 2 days later rushed to ER after passing out from the pain. Sad truth... Having a kid going through something can bring you back together. It was still bumpy but he was there for me to rely on again. It was a slow go for awhile. But things are a lot better with us.
I have no idea why he wants me to find a bf lol. I always thought I was completely messed up because I could never completely choose between by ex and him. I love them both. HAve for 20 years. My ex is just not accepting of a relationship like that. Hubs is ok with it. And wishes the ex would too. He knows I have always struggled.
I told him I wasnt sure about this again because of my fear of going through the crap he did again. He swears it will never happen. And that at first he had a false realization. Which happened after Ex said he couldnt be like this anymore. And I started trying to date. He was super ok with the EX. But wasnt as ok with others. And I understand because the others seemed unwilling to meet him. They just wanted to see if they could get into a married persons pants. It was very pathetic.
I would be willing to try again. Just hate the dating game. And hubs and my relationship is a lot better and honestly.. Im feeling a lot better about everything. I just guess I just have that fear that something would happen again with hubs. I didnt know if anyone else had gone through stuff and able to try again.
I keep thinking that maybe we didnt talk about it enough before. Maybe there was something we didnt hit upon. I dont know. lol So I guess to try again I dont want it getting messed up again. Maybe Im expecting perfection and things to work just so. It helps reading others experiences but I was mainly looking for me this time.
08-21-2012, 08:49 PM
I'm not blaming either one of you -- I'm just sharing my POV as a stranger looking in...
I just have that fear that something would happen again with hubs. I keep thinking that maybe we didnt talk about it enough before. Maybe there was something we didnt hit upon.
Listen to your gut! Because I do not read a list of what you DID do to address it other than mere talk, and talk is cheap if you don't understand emotional flooding and how to cope. It will happen again.
But basically you BOTH didn't want to be the first to speak to get the clarify and spent 8 long months enduring stupid.
Both sound kinda avoidy to me. Maybe too much pride in both? Both expecting mind reader? Value the need to be "right" rather than the need to be in "right relationship" with your loved one?
He knew he screwed up by lying. And didnt know how to fix it. So he just went day to day hoping I would be less mad and talk to him.
He has clunky emotional skills -- he does not articulate well, and he's avoidy in obvious things. He may not have elegant execution but is he serious? He does not know that when you mess up the thing to do is APOLOGIZE to the person you hurt? If he means he does not know HOW to apologize to YOU -- teach him. "I like to be apologized to like this -- here is steps in a list. Hanging on fridge."
Instead I got madder. Because I felt like he lied to me and it became my fault. And his refusal to speak to me was proof of that in my mind.
And you may have been wronged, but if it goes on a while and you are unsatisfied where things are left? Still waiting for apology that does not come?
Why not call him into account sooner and use "I" statements to go firm but fair and move the thing forward again so you can return to right relationship with each other. Something like....
"I want to call you into account for that thing. Why have I not received an apology? I am left feeling like the whole thing is my fault and I'm being punished. I need to know where we stand. I have the right to clear communication and constructive conflict resolution. I want to set an appointment to discuss this in full sometime this week. You can clarify your position then. What day works for you? I am best Friday, but am willing to negotiate."
Or you would, if you were my partner in my universe. (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794) Do you guys have any framework for how to be in right relationship to each other?
I do not understand why you turn his stress into the pissing contest. He reports he has stress. "I feel stressed."
Rather than say "I hear you have stress. Thanks for reporting how you are feeling. What do you need from me? How can I help you, partner, in dealing with your stress management?"
I hear you say "What do you mean YOU have stress? I am the stressed one with X, Y, Z...."
In my universe? You have denied your partner the right to support and nurture. Mr Clunky who does not like to report or share his feelings.... how have you encouraged more emotional sharing and sharpening his reporting skills? By shooting his clunky effort down?
If you needed some support and nurture yourself for you stress issues too? Did you clearly communicate it? Or did you just blew up at him? Were you expecting him to mind reader you? Mr Clunky = Super Mind Reader?
It is different to say "Yes, I hear you are stressed. Me too! Shall we plan out some couple time to destress together then? Or are you thinking this time we create space/time so we destress as individuals in turn? How can we best help each other here to better handle our stress management?"
I think you are right in worrying if he can take it emotionally or not if you Open. And if YOU can take it emotionally if his emotional response is clunky.
What have you guys done besides talk to address your communication areas and its weaknesses?
If you have not already I taking some communication classes would be a wiser investment of time. He can sharpen his clunky tools and feel stronger. You can feel more secure in his skills too and not get clonked again.
If you live in the USA -- county extension offices usually have some relationship skills / life management type classes for couples that are free or low cost. Google your county one.
I hope things improve for you both.
08-21-2012, 09:28 PM
You are probably right on the avoiding. I did try to talk but the answer remained I Dont know for 2 months. Then I gave up. After that it was pride. And the why should I have to be the one to say something first. That probably did make things worse.
As far as his stress. Believe me I have understood tolerated validated etc. Even he will agree to that. He finally admits to being a lot like his dad and that needs to change. I have always supported him and validated.. Except at that point. Because this was 5 months into 12 hour days 6 day weeks for him. And so I shouldered everything. He was too tired. And when he finally did talk to me he apologized for that. Because he put us last. The best thing that happened was he took 8 months and thought. A LOT. He even apologized to the kids for being a jerk and not making time when he had it. His one day off he was spending being stressed and grumpy. And I was left to explain to the kids he was just tired from working so much. And it was in that 8 months he realized I have always been on the back burner to him. That he always put himself first in everything. And my feelings really didnt matter before. I have always been the stay at home mom, who cooks every meal, cleans the whole house, laundry etc. Im also the one who takes on the odd jobs to pay the dent he racks up because he HAS to have something.
This is where a lot has changed. He took on a 2nd job after our huge blow up. And he paid on his mess up instead of me doing it again. (This is MAJOR to me) He also found this new job. Which is huge as well because for 6 of the 10 years he was at the other place it was miserable for us all and we all dealt with it. Because he was scared of the change. Even though the old job had him completely hating everything. It was a shock to see him finally saying enough was enough.
For the first time in years he asks me how I feel. It took some getting used to. But I kinda like it. He realized he just thought I could handle everything thrown at me and come out ok. But Im not superwoman. And that is a major step.
He has made the attempts to bring us together. And that was because I wasnt. (I admit to it) I told him if he really wanted us to be together he had to stop taking me for granted. He spent years coming home to a hot dinner. House clean, His clothes ironed... No Im not June Cleaver here but I felt that was my job. I wanted him happy. And that horrible 8 months taught us both that we both have to matter. Not just one person. He helps with laundry and cleaning. He cooks on the weekend. Hes also showing our kids who started in stating all the stuff I do is womans work.. was actually work for the whole family. When he showed me he was really willing to bring back the closeness we had.. I started letting go of the walls I placed.
LOL at the clunky emotional skills. I did laugh at that. You are right. He admitted to it as well. He didnt know HOW to apologize. So he actually apologizes more frequently now. I was like.. uhh you apologize like I teach the kids.. Im sorry FOR................. I also make my children say WHY they did it. I was mad because... so I did .... or whatever. Hes learning. But then again he is just like his dad was. So he never was taught. So I forgive him there lol.
We havent let anything just sit since then. If one is having a bad day.. We say it. And why the day is crappy. That way if need be. Go take some quiet time. Because most the time that is whats needed. A hot shower or just lay down for a few.
It doesnt stop the worry of it happening again. But we have been communicating a LOT more in the past 6 months that we have in years..many years. I mean we talked. But not like this.
And yes I need to watch my temper with him. We both have been together since we were 14. (started as very close friends) So we both know each other well enough to push buttons. And that was also what hurt the most when he did that. Was because he knew me well enough to know that would hurt. And during one extremely emotional talk from him.. He even stated he felt like a monster for doing that to me. Because he knew it would hurt and he did it anyway. I forgive him on it. I really dont think he will again. It just bothered me that this is the first time he ever really lied to me about something major. Hell hes lied about purchasing things lol. But that Im used to(He doesnt do this anymore to clarify lol)
I didnt mean to start the thread as how awful things are for us. Because they arent now. He and I are actually closer now. I guess I was just looking for ideas of how not to worry it would happen again. I dont think it will. Just trying to make myself not worry so much.
08-21-2012, 09:33 PM
I did try to talk but the answer remained I Dont know for 2 months.
That is possible emotional flooding symptom. Shutting down.
You can google more but to start:
Gotta get a handle on how to deal with emotional flooding in each of you BEFORE you add a new player who can flood or trigger floods (on purpose or not.)
Otherwise you all drown.
For the first time in years he asks me how I feel. It took some getting used to. But I kinda like it. He realized he just thought I could handle everything thrown at me and come out ok. But Im not superwoman. And that is a major step.
When he showed me he was really willing to bring back the closeness we had.. I started letting go of the walls I placed.
Sounds like you guys have made big changes. That is awesome! :)
Why not stop and smell the roses a bit and enjoy them a bit before changing up the mixture again? Adding another ups your polymath tiers. (http://www.serolynne.com/poly_complex.htm)
I'm not saying do not Open ever . Just trying to get a sense of why NOW is best time to Open for you? What would a new person add to this wonderful new marriage? What would they take away? Time management and division of labor in the home (now that you JUST got it in better balance!) would change to WHAT?
I guess I was just looking for ideas of how not to worry it would happen again. I dont think it will. Just trying to make myself not worry so much.
If you plan to Open, how would you "tricycle" it? So you can still back off safely if one of you gets triggered?
Do you have a framework for how to be in right relationship or help you get back to it?
Is your communication now solved and solid? Has this new communication method been reality tested on something ELSE already? How did it play? (Work crazy thing? School PTA crazy thing? How did you get through the crazy? With grace? Or more of the old?)
Have you covered morethantwo.com (http://www.morethantwo.com/) and serolynne? (http://www.serolynne.com/polyamory.htm)
I broke the TMI wall on the old V. We covered past relationships, our relationship. What we could go back in time to change or experience instead. Figure out what we want to look for next. I suck at sharing intimacies. So I deliberately made several dates with friends to reveal private things. Tricycle that with known friends first.
And a couple weeks ago he asked me to find myself a bf again. I told him it was something I was afraid of doing because of the fear he will use things against me again. Its very hard for me to open up. So I keep saying I dont know. He finally convinced me to put my Okcupid back up.
Work with DH to decide what your "reality testing" things could be. How long will you be testing before actually Opening? A few weeks seems premature.
Would it be like you let him read this thread about him? Read the OTHER posts on this forum -- Do the what if thing. if this happened to us, how would you be? How would you expect me to be? Can't predict all situations, but the main thing is NOT the question being asked. It is the HOW things get resolved.
On my end? If DH responds / reacts poorly when things are calm when a forum post isn't even really US?
If we Opened? And it is us for real? And he goes from crazy to BALLISTIC?
I'm at fault then. For playing with a known fragile person. He's also at fault for playing and saying he is fine when he isn't. But me? I have to own my side -- and my side is that I let us Open when I KNEW he was not ready.
08-21-2012, 09:58 PM
Just3, it sounds like you two are headed in a good direction but still in the healing process. And that process takes time, but it does seem like you are both making efforts. I am not one for making lists and contracts, so I think if you are both working toward the same thing -- a joyous, fulfilling, mutually supportive and respectful marriage -- and you keep talking and learning from each other, you will be alright.
I suspect he is encouraging you to find a bf out of guilt over his behavior, and he wants you to know he is on your side now. If you find someone else and get invloved in another relationship, that might mean in your husband's eyes that you've forgiven him. Still, just because he is telling you to do it doesn't mean you have to run right out and look for someone. Nobody wants to be a project for you to undertake! Take your time, assess how you feel, keep building your foundation (you could do a tag search for the word "foundations" for threads here about it), and don't embark upon trying to meet someone else until you feel fully able to trust hubs and are ready to.
08-21-2012, 10:28 PM
Is your husband still working 72-hour weeks? That puts a giant burden on you at home. I am not sure where you would be able to fit a third person into your lives, since he's working all the time and that leaves you minding the children by default.
When all three of us were working full-time, even without kids, even without extra hours, we had to make sure our schedules fit together. I don't know how I coped with overnights when I had to work the next morning, to be honest. I need more sleep than I get when he's here and we're waking up at the crack of dawn. (Not want. Need. Ten hours for every twenty-four, minimum. Caffeine triggers panic attacks. You wonder how I ever held a job? So do I...) I'm much more flexible now I'm unemployed, which has helped on the poly end of things, but as a trade-off I cannot afford to go halves on a fun getaway. Necessary expenses don't vanish when you're sacked. The cats still have vet bills. I still have doctors to see, and now I pay for them out-of-pocket.
So if you're considering opening your relationship, put those practicalities high on your list. Where is the time? Where is the money? Almost every question boils down to one of those. "Where will my OSO and I spend time together" = "Where is the money?" if the answer is not "here at home". "When will I see my OSO?" is obviously "Where is the time?" And "with the kids" does not count. I'm talking about quality adults-only time. I'm sure you can guess why. [cough] [blush]
Also, quality of time versus quantity. Having one partner for funsies and one partner for all the chores just doesn't work. Each partner needs quality, non-chore-oriented time with you. As relationships evolve, how this happens might change. If your OSO becomes welcome in your home, he could offer to take the kids for a night while you and your husband have a date. He could do some chores so you and your husband can go do something fun. Just an example, of course, but you see where I'm going?
08-22-2012, 02:00 AM
Hubs is no longer working those long days. Its been nice. His job used him. Didnt give raises for years and then gave very very tiny ones. Kinda a insult. He took all that super personally but wasnt willing to change it. He started this new job a month and a half ago. It was horrible when he worked those hours..And I did the best I could up until the problem.
Yes I do feel like I am still healing some days. Its that part of me that says Hubs is my best friend. And I felt betrayed. And like he didnt care. Essentially I felt like I lost my best friend. That was a hard pill to swallow. I took that 8 months to rethink ME. To find myself. That was the blessing that came out of that time. Its been a long time since I put myself first. Even when I had the bf, it was all about pleasing and making everyone happy. I ran myself ragged. I have 2 kids who are both involved in activities and I school them. During the months of crap, I didnt school them but I was also the carpooler for the neighborhood. Sometimes I have a hard time saying no lol. Even when it makes me run like crazy. And now. I can say no more often because I do have to think about my sanity as well. I can tell hubs how I feel. And not feel bad. (used to either not say anything or apologize when I did)
But hes undergone the same changes. Instead o being a jerk over these last 6 months when hes stressed, he actually says he had a bad day or if its ok to take a few minutes before being in the middle of chaos with kiddos lol. And he actually did home improvement stuff without getting irritated!! (YES another major turn!!) Hes not a jerk. Or anything. He actually is a really good guy who just this year has learned to SAY how he feels rather than just being a grump.
It was super hard for me to say I wanted out. Because the guy who didnt speak to me about anything for all that time.. Was not the guy I have known and loved for 20 years. Im used to the lil things. But the way he was acting was not him(Even he stated this)
Hubs and I have been making time for each other. WHich hadnt been something important until a few years ago. When we realized our relationship had been put on hold between kids work etc. We need to do it more often. :)
I tend to think I try too hard to make sure everyone is taken care of. My ex included and we dont even have a sexual relationship and havent for a year and a half. I agree with everyone needing special time. I just dont want to rush into anything. I agree hubs and I are still healing with each other. I dont want to jump into a major relationship just yet. Meeting people would be nice. I dont just jump into bed. I want a real relationship with the person, Just like I have with hubs.
I appreciate everyones insight and thoughts so far. You have made me think. And I will be looking into a lot of the suggestions with hubs :) Keep the advice coming :) I am reading every bit of it.