View Full Version : Got issues, need answers/advice......
08-18-2012, 03:46 PM
I'm part of a poly relationship, consisting of a husband & wife & myself...
We are having some difficulties in defining parameters such as household money, personal money, introductions and time management. Under time management issues I would add personal time, the time spent alone with ones self.
We've divided household money into thirds. Everyone pays a third of the mortgage and household utilities. We are each responsible for our own personal bills. This works with one exception, one of us doesn't have a job.
We, the ladies, prefer to be introduced as "wife" and our "good friend." We prefer it this way to avoid the issues that some of our friends & family will have trying to understand what we are about.
As to time management, those of us already on a schedule don't want our relationship managed by a schedule.
Is there anyone who has truely dealt with this issues and come away with a good solid foundation upon which to continue building their relationship???
Thanks to anyone who can help sort this out!
08-18-2012, 09:01 PM
You've outlined the major issues but haven't exactly said what the problems are. For instance, you say how you and the wife like to be introduced, but you haven't said why that's causing difficulty. It'd be helpful to have more background info. Also, how long have the three of you been together? Are you involved with both members of the married couple?
Great resources here: http://www.morethantwo.com/coupledating.html
08-18-2012, 10:56 PM
What's the problem in money? What are the wants, needs, limits there?
I fail to see how it's fair for the person who is not working out of home to generate income to pay 1/3 of the house. Couldn't this person take more of a share in the within the household work/chores, and then the working-out-of-home people take a larger share of the financial work? Split the load that way?
What's the problem with introductions? The ladies seem fine so what is the husband wants/needs/limits on that?
What the problem with a schedule?
08-23-2012, 03:08 PM
Money...he doesn't work but he is real good at spending. I work anywhere from 8 to 15 hrs a day and sometimes I work 12 days straight to make sure things are covered and there's extra. I do see him making some effort to get a job and I've said all along that as long as he can cover 1 very expensive vehicle payment (his motorcycle) and 1 other payment that he alone has incurred, I don't have an issue with paying extra. Somedays the wife agrees with me and other days she doesn't (right now she doesn't). We've tried the extra household chore thing..it didn't work so well. My work day sometimes starts at midnight and has the potential to go until 3pm, so when I get home I don't want to see dirty dishes, I don't want to have to start supper, run the sweeper, clean a bathroom. But thats what was happening, we brought it to his attention and some effort was semi-made on his part but it was really too little too late. There's more to having a job than just the paycheck, a job, regardless of what it is, keeps the mind active. If a person just sits in front of the TV and does nothing or very little else, they start to mentaly fade.
Introductions..sometimes they come across in such a way that we feel like we are on display..i.e. after one intro in particular, a guy thought he had the right to put his hands on me. Why should how we choose to live and love entitle anyone to feel it's "OK" to be so disrespectful?!
Schedule..we, the ladies, already have schedules..i.e. work schedule, housework schedule, bill schedule..get the idea? We don't want to turn one on one time into a schedule, we think if we do this it's going to start feeling like work! We do enough of that now..lol
08-23-2012, 03:15 PM
We've been together as a triad for going on a year. He and I have known each other 20yrs and she and I have known each other for a little over a year. They are or were swingers, however since we've become a triad, they have both said that what they were looking for or missing is found, niether of them are actively living the swinger lifestyle. In regards to that, I've told them several times that should they want to go out like that, as swingers, please do so, all I ask is that they be respectful of me in that they have safe sex.
08-23-2012, 04:15 PM
I am sorry you are enduring shenanigans like this. Don't endure then too long though -- make changes for the better and hold him accountable. He fails to hold up his end? Point where the hard limits are.
In my universe, (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794) I put it at 3 strikes you are out if the same darn issue keeps popping up with no real effort to change for the better.
I'm currently the SAHM. DH is the WOHD. There's several accounts in our life but I won't go into the details of how we save.
I am comfortable as a SAHM because there is ONE savings acct in my name only. If he goes bananas and becomes a turd to me I can walk away freely. Kiss my GRITS! He agrees and sees the point, because his career skills are sharpened and mine grow dull even though work as SAHM is emotionally, mentally and spiritually rewarding. It's just not esp valued outside our home.
And I need this even if he is turd free but gets run over by a bus. I will need money to rebuild my life and kid's that can liquidate easy. And I'd have to bury him. And I'd be grieving! So make it easy on me, dude!
I hope you all have a small nest egg in YOUR OWN NAME ONLY! Consider this!
DH's income goes automatically in the MAIN HOUSE joint checking acct. I am the house manager. From there I parcel it out across savings. I also "feed" the FLEX HOUSE checking acct -- groceries, haircuts for the fam, dentist, etc. Things I could adjust down and tighten or reschedule if we have to tweak to stay on track for budget.
Autopayments come out of the MAIN acct because it is regular, fixed amounts for these bills. Car, house, etc. NOBODY touches main other than to feed it or to manage auto set ups. We discuss any changes before they happen.
We each have our own baby "allowance" accounts. They are tiny, but they save fights. Your fun money. No questions asked if it comes out of your own play money. He fritters his on music and hobby things.
I fritter mine on books and my volunteer work needs. Sometimes we go out on dates -- he treats or I do or we go halfsies. I easily hoard up to get to buy big stuff over the months and years. He struggles to make it to the next payday in his fun bucket. But it keeps his bad spending/budget habits to HIM and not be infecting ME or OUR house accounts that affect ME. He goes broke HE sucks it up. Not me, not US.
I strongly suggest you consider something like that. Depending on where you live, the LEGAL WIFE could be screwed if he runs it up. She's be responsible for half the bill even if the runs away from home!
I like http://www.lets-clean-up.com/
Cheap, and effective. Can also name the person to the chore. Print it up, slap on fridge, check off. Or don't print and check off on the house computer.
There. No fights if you all set up and agree and can hold accountable. It is what it is. Point to the hard limit. How many times things slack off before they get kicked out of this polyship for not pulling their weight?
It does not have to be equal like 10 chores each. It has to be FAIR.
He puts you in danger of a mauling to show off? EW! :eek:
Tell him he can't introduce you at all except by name. "This is Jane" and "This is Sally."
You two will introduce the rest when and where YOU see fit. "Hi! I'm the wife" or "Hi! I'm the GF."
You need one, if he's also shirking time spent with you two. Get it on there. He's so shirky sounding in the other areas.
Honestly, I do not know what you see in this man if he's THIS irresponsible about money and how he treats you.
SOOOOO lacking in respect. :(
Maybe you and the wife would be better off as a couple! Ugh.
Again, I'm sorry you endure shenanigans. I hope they stop soon one way or another! Even if it means invoking the hard limit of walking away from this.
08-23-2012, 04:29 PM
Oh, this is not right. I am in a relationship with my girlfriend and husband, so I understand the difficulties splitting up household chores in a triad.
Do you have a concrete list of chores, divided by person? This can really help, especially when one person is at home all the time, then they don't feel like they are expected to do everything just because they dont work outside the house.
I also favor the idea of individual accounts for spending money. It really prevents a lot of butt-hurt. If he spends out his weekly allotment, then he's done. We also have a policy where no one touches the main account without discussion first. Each pay cycle we transfer a certain amount into each of the three mini-checking accounts. Since she and I do the bulk of grocery shopping, we decide how much to use from the main account for that purpose, and all other bills are auto deductions.
As for the introductions, I'm surprised he's not more protective of his family! We are very protective of each other and try not to rock the boat in new situations. We realize what an anomaly we are and don't rub it in people's faces. If pressed we tell the truth, but to a stranger at a get together, we say 'this is our best friend, she's part of the family' and leave it at that. This is especially important as we have children to protect.
I think you need a family meeting, to re-prioritize things and get everyone on the same page.
08-23-2012, 04:57 PM
So many red flags here, jenzen, I hardly know where to start. I very much respect your desire not to be exploited. With all due respect, that's what I read in your messages, bearing in mind that you couldn't possibly have written down everything in all its context.
Who has the largest salary? You didn't say anything about whether or where the wife works, or how much she makes (1/3 of the household income? 1/2? 1/10?) or how much you do. You said the man is not employed, but he somehow manages to pay for a one-person (two at most) toy of his--a motorcycle. (As a former rider and owner of multiple motorcycles, I know what they cost.)
So are you paying a third of their mortgage? Is the house in their name/s? In yours? What equity are you building, with what arrangement?
One of the things I learn daily in my triad is that with three people bringing full selves to the table, no one person can slack off unless a) the others allow it or b) they're not bringing their full self to the table.
You are right to feel and act in a self-protective manner. Moving from swinger to poly is more than a matter of picking out a person and feeling that they are "what was always missing." Poly is very hard human work with far more complicated rules at many and far-reaching levels (social, psychological, economic, moral/ethical, practical...), and all of them have to be worked out by the people involved.
Otherwise, if he is not working outside the house, and both you and the wife are (is she?), it's pretty clear to me who should be carrying the bulk of the labors at home. If he lacks the maturity, commitment, and discipline to do this, then he's not a keeper in my book. It says to me that he doesn't take homelife very seriously, or thinks the wimmins should do it.
I agree with what others have said: pick your strike zone, indicate where it is, and be ready to call a strikeout if that's what it takes to tend to your own needs and boundaries.
One last thing: you said that they were swingers, and you'd known him 20 years, but his wife just one. Were you involved with him or them in that lifestyle or outside of it? How long have they been married? Is his wife resistant to your and his involvement now (given that it sounds like at some level "you came first" temporally)?
He may be having a hard time rethinking the boundaries. In which case someone is going to have to lay it on the line with him, and I doubt it will be easy. IME this is one of the hardest parts about evolving a three person relationship.
My apologies in advance if I missed any details or got them wrong in reading your postings.
08-23-2012, 06:42 PM
What GalaGirl said!!!
Basically, you three need to sit down and have a SERIOUS family meeting. I've always thought the expenses should be split based on a percentage based on income. If there is a partner who doesn't work, they don't pay the expenses, but they DO make up the difference with housework, errands and other stuff.
How long has he been out of work? I noticed similar behavior when my husband got laid off. At first, nothing around the house was getting done, in fact I'd come home to a bigger mess. But after a month or so, he got out of his lazy "it's time to have some fun" mindset and housework began to get done, dinners were cooked, etc. Depression may also be a factor as it's not unusual in men who are struggling to find a job. However, as resentments are starting to build, this MUST be addressed in a family meeting.
I know from experience, little comments, whining and complaining don't work, but a straight forward meeting might. Sometimes with my husband, I have to call it a "Board Meeting" or a "Partner's meeting", because it will get him out of the mindset of "his vs her" jobs (he does this sub-consciously and will deny it if asked :rolleyes:, but actions...) and he doesn't feel like I'm attacking him and just trying to get him to do more stuff I don't want to do. Make a list of daily, weekly, monthly chores that need to be done, same with expenses, etc. Then the 3 of you decide how, when and by whom each item should be handled.
I used to nag the husband to do the yard maintenance (mowing, tree trimming, etc), but instead he would just sit on the computer all day. So we would end up in a fight about it as it got neglected for months. He would say he would just hire someone, but we didn't even have enough money for the electric bill that month, so the fight would continue. After YEARS of this, he finally blurted out that he gets a migraine every time he does ANYTHING in the yard. I'm standing there, mouth open "WTF..." Anyway, now, I make a list of other stuff, like laundry, dishes, clean out the garage and he actually gets it done, even if I'm not crazy about HOW he does it, it get's done and I do most of the yard stuff.
08-23-2012, 07:30 PM
We work out our finances like this: Each person pays out the same % of income towards the bills. It obviously means they aren't split into equal amounts, just equal percentages. We went through a few times where one of us wasn't working so whoever wasn't able to contribute financially, did ALOT if not all of the household chores. It worked for us. We each keep and maintain seperate accounts, for our own personal payments or spending money.
We have found also that C works very long hours(about 80/wk), T about 60/wk and I work about 30/wk, so I do a big part of the household chores, and I really don't mind. I would never expect either one of them to have to come home after long hours to a mess!
08-23-2012, 09:21 PM
But thats what was happening, we brought it to his attention and some effort was semi-made on his part but it was really too little too late. There's more to having a job than just the paycheck, a job, regardless of what it is, keeps the mind active. If a person just sits in front of the TV and does nothing or very little else, they start to mentaly fade.
I don't know anything about living in a triad situation, but I do know a lot about housework. I know GalaGirl recommended a chore chart, but I know when I first became the household manager, I found that kind of overwhelming, especially if I got behind one day. I really really like FlyLady. I know it's directed at women, and maybe he won't like it because of that, but the daily support of routines, letting go of perfectionism, etc... really helped me get to the point where now I do have a bunch of charts to keep track of the household management and find them helpful and not overwhelming. A big part of fly lady is baby steps, of just adding a few routines at a time. I know you said it's too little too late, but I think little by little is how we overcome "Can't Have Anyone Over Syndrome," lol. Just a thought.
08-23-2012, 10:31 PM
I know GalaGirl recommended a chore chart, but I know when I first became the household manager, I found that kind of overwhelming, especially if I got behind one day.
It may be overwhelming, but still necessary to look at occasionally, especially if your not used to doing any of the listed chores. However, it's just as important to document the things you actually did during the day. I know it can be discouraging knowing you didn't get EVERYTHING done and when you look at the chart, there might only be one thing you can check off, but why? Did you spend 2 hours sending out resumes and job hunting? Did you spend 3 hours doing laundry instead of 1? Did you clean out a closet, because you couldn't get to the vacuum, that was buried in there someplace? Did you get a sudden migraine?
08-24-2012, 12:05 AM
I really really like FlyLady. I know it's directed at women . . .
FlyLady (http://www.flylady.com) is awesome! 10-minute Room Rescues, Home Blessings, setting the timer, morning and evening routines, maintaining a Household Notebook, having one specific room as the focus of the month, and just making sure you get the kitchen sink clean if nothing else gets done. Her stuff is based on the card file system for "sidetracked home executives" developed by Pam and Peggy Something? (The Slob Sisters). All of them are very "housewifey" and also Bible thumpers -- but the ideas for organizing and figuring out how often to do tasks is excellent.
08-24-2012, 01:09 AM
We have daily chore lists on the fridge-but in addition-I have a running "to do" list that is everything I need to do "soon" and I work my way through one or two a day.
That helps me keep perspective.
08-24-2012, 04:01 AM
I'm not perfect -- and I've tried Fly Lady and Motivated Moms and other systems like SHE. Just keep looking for the one that fits your personality.
I like Let's Clean Up because while the SET UP takes time, it can break out the chore lists by NAME of person. So I just have to worry about MINE, that I have agreed to execute "for helping the family."
DH and kid worry about theirs. It becomes really easy to see then who is not pulling weight, and who has crazy expectations.
My kid grumbles when I make her check her list but I just flat out tell her "Hey, you are part of this family. You HAVE to help out the family in your way -- so get to your responsibilities. Mommy has to do hers for the family, Daddy does his. You do yours!"
I'm the one who is also the list manager so every semester I check the set up and after that I'm just a chore-r with a list to knock off.