Husband vs Wife and her Dom.. a matter of respect. [Archive]

CrapEndOfTheStick

08-06-2012, 02:28 PM

My wife and I have been married for 12 years and about 7 years ago, my wife revealed that she is a submissive and wanted to live in the D/S lifestyle, with all the beatings, dungeons and bondage that goes with it. Flash forward to now, we are in an open relationship where she has a Dom, and some sister-subbies that she goes and hangs out with pretty much every weekend.. and I have our kids, the laundry and such.. I guess someone has to keep the house clean.

For most of the time since she revealed her preferences, things were okay enough, but as time has gone by, I've been noticing what feels like A. a complete selfishness in her and B. a complete lack of respect for me.

When all of this started, she and I agreed that if either of us had a problem with something the other was doing (or who they were doing), all that one had to do is say the word and it would stop. I've held up to that requirement when she got jealous of a girl I was visiting, however, every time I've told her that I don't like something that's either already happened or she tells me is going to happen, and I use my veto. She basically throws a fit and pesters and nags and fumes and argues and carries on until I finally can't stand it anymore and say "FINE! Do whatever you want!" ..

I found out recently that it probably wouldn't have mattered if I hadn't ever caved in on anything anyway. She informed that she and her Dom wanted to start doing slaps and strikes to the face. I sad emphatically "NO.. No way in Hell!". And of course, she started having a fit. I finally told her that I absolutely positively will not cave on this. Number 1, I don't care if she likes it or not, I don't like seeing bruises and red-angry marks on my wife's skin that I know were left by someone's intentional actions... I don't care if she wanted it, I still don't like.. Number 2 and it's big one. She works in a very conservative office, and the last thing I need is a bunch of office-harpies thinking I'm beating my wife up, because she keeps showing up every so often with a bruise on her face. I explained this to her and she told me I was retarded and basically, she didn't need my permission anyway. She'll do what she wants.

If anyone can explain that as being anything but completely selfish disrespect, I'd love to what it is. It also really angers me that, while my wishes are trivial and easily disregarded, her Dom's every whim is top priority. He says that she come up for the weekend, it doesn't matter how much my twins cry that she hasn't been home and done anything with them for the last 5 weekends, it doesn't matter that I asked her to stay home. Nope, can't disobey the master! Her husband of 12 years and father of her children apparently amount to nothing put up against her selfish desires.

I know this is a long narrative, and I apologize.. I'm at my wits end.. At this point, I'm about to drop the ultimate veto, which we'd also agreed to in the beginning. I'm about to say, "The open marriage is now closed.. No more Dom.. It's DONE." ... Part of me thinks she'll resent it, but she'll do it.. but another part of me thinks she might just pack her belongings and leave me and the kids.. It's a frightening concept, but at this point, I've about had it and can't think of anything else I can do.

Anyone have other alternative courses of action? And before anyone says it, I've been to plenty of live demonstrations, I know how the bruises are made.. it doesn't make me feel any better about them and the bruises are just one issue out of dozens anyway.

I apologize again for my tone, I'm just very frustrated, angry and hurt these days.. and I would appreciate some advice.

Thank you.

Amitrye

08-06-2012, 02:44 PM

This relationship sounds like it's teetering on the edge of a cliff.
1. Why isn't your wife willing to listen to you at all? When you talk do you go to the arguing place like right away or do you sit down and tell her what you need/want?
2. Something that's missing that would be a big issue for me: You say your wife is out every weekend and you spend that time taking care of the kids. Where is the time for you and her to be together and when do you get time to yourself?
3. Why is the dom/sub lifestyle so important to her? You know what you don't like about certain aspects of it, but have you guys ever discussed why she feels like she needs it?
4. If her dom knows she has children (and I assume he does) how does he think it's ok to order her to come over there every weekend? I know that both he and she enjoy that situation, but as you stated, the children are suffering from not seeing their mother. I know a lot of people who are doms, but there are boundaries of sorts and there is enough respect for their subs there that the life outside of that means something too. As a sub, she may be the kind of person compelled to do everything her dom asks of her. As a dom, it sounds like he may be asking too much. Have you tried talking to him instead of her, or is there no way for you to have a calm conversation with him? Normally I don't recommend going around your partner to try to resolve the situation, but I have a kid and I have a weak spot where kids are involved and if talking to him would help- great.
It sounds like if you want to save your marriage you may both need to be open to and agree to therapy- to work on the communication if nothing else. I know adding another person (even a counselor) can't always be the answer, but in this case if your communication with each other is that poor she may need to understand why you don't want to have bruises on her face (among other things).

CrapEndOfTheStick

08-06-2012, 02:55 PM

I always state my oppositions to whatever she's proposing calmly and along with my rationale.. She goes straight into the arguing place.

I forgot to mention that I have spoken with her Dom about all of this, on several occasions for several different issues, and though he says, "Okay! Not a problem! You're her husband, you have the final say on what we do.", he doesn't follow through on his end, and I have a strong feeling that my wife is the one that tells him "You don't have to listen to him, Master!", and he isn't difficult to sway because he didn't want to respect my wishes anyway.

On top it all, this wasn't the way is was supposed to be.. She was supposed to have her playmate, and I was supposed to have a playmate.. but she is too jealous for that, and apparently I am too respectful of her wishes in that respect. Am I being a pushover? She says that I'm the one who is selfish and don't want to respect her needs. Am I? The irony is that I'm not even really vanilla! I have some pretty solid kinks of my own, but I don't force them on her, even though she basically has blocked me from finding a playmate of my own to enjoy my fetishes with... She's also said that she doesn't want me to even try to learn the BDSM lifestyle and become her Dom.. "It wouldn't be the same." she says... I'm really bitter, exhausted and confused here...

GalaGirl

08-06-2012, 02:55 PM

*hug*

I am so sorry you are going through this.

A person can sub to a dom, but it is done with consent with the power exchange and since there's a husband and children -- I'm worried her dom is not a responsible dom. It's edge play, but it should not become child neglect! I get the high of subspace -- but seriously neglecting husband and children is just neglect. Maybe she's an addict to all the feel good endorphin things going on with the edge play? Does she even want to recover?

It's a double standard here -- what is good for goose is good for gander. The door is open on your side too -- whether or not you avail yourself of that option. Her jealousy and whatnot -- is it really jealous of you? Or that she'd have to put time in holding the fort at home when you have dates and she doesn't want to?

I always state my oppositions to whatever she's proposing calmly and along with my rationale.. She goes straight into the arguing place.

If she's often BDSMing, does she have enough time to clear her system of the hormone soup? The fight/flight response and subdrop thing could lead her to GRRRR when you want to talk. It can take a few days to clear. If she goes out a lot -- it could be like you are living with an addict/drunk person whose thinking is impaired. It isn't an excuse for neglecting things at home, but I wanted to point that out because it makes things that much more of a challenge if you are trying to talk to her seriously.

At any rate, you do not sound happy in this marriage. I think you DO have to talk to her firmly -- about your wants, needs, and limits.

And you may need a counselor and it may mean navigating a decent divorce if she's not willing to work things out with you.

Again I am so sorry. :(

GalaGirl

CrapEndOfTheStick

08-06-2012, 03:08 PM

I would go out hunting for a special friend, but she gets very mean-spirited and difficult to deal with when she knows I'm with someone else.. god forbid, she thinks the girl is better looking than her.. doesn't matter what I say.. besides, she has her time all booked up.. If I told her I wanted to go out, she wouldn't cancel her plans, she'd just make me take the kids to their aunts, and they'd cry that Daddy is leaving... also, running against me is that I have a neuro-muscular movement disorder that came upon me over the last year or so, and it lays me low on a semi-regular basis.. On those days, I have to take the kids to their aunt's to watch them, because it is beyond my physical abilities to do so.. so then I have to feel like I'm abandoning my kids and I feel like a completely worthless piece of guilt-ridden crap.. If she would just stay home on those weekends when I'm physically messed up, the kids would be happy, I would be happy, but I guess she wouldn't be.. I don't know.

I do thank both of you for your responses.. you've definitely given me some things to think about here...

Nathan

08-06-2012, 03:31 PM

My girl also has a Dom/Bull, BDSM is not something I like or understand. However I respect the fact that she was with him before me, and also that she enjoys that side of her sexualality, and that she does not get that from me, although we tried, and had fun. It was fun though because we had a good laugh, and that's not what she wants. She has always has been 110% sexually submissive to him, and still is, so much so that when he wants to be with her now, he is. She is not submissive to him out of the bedroom though, and is very much independent of mind and sprit.

What troubles me about your post is you say there is no respect shown towards you, and that your opinion and feelings count for nothing, this is the opposite to us. Everything we do is done with consent, when something bothers us, we talk it out. An example of this is the marking up of her skin. I didn't like touching and kissing my girls sexy ass, only to find it covered in lots of red marks from where she gets spanked and whipped. We discussed it, and now there are no more marks. I respect their need to enjoy their BDSM stuff, but they respect my feelings also. I could not be with my girl if she didn't show that level of care for me, and vice versa.

I'm at my wits end.. At this point, I'm about to drop the ultimate veto, which we'd also agreed to in the beginning. I'm about to say, "The open marriage is now closed.. No more Dom.. It's DONE." ... Part of me thinks she'll resent it, but she'll do it.. but another part of me thinks she might just pack her belongings and leave me and the kids.. It's a frightening concept, but at this point, I've about had it and can't think of anything else I can do.

If that is true, I really think you need to ask yourself if you want to be in that type of relationship, I would not, I would feel as if I was wasting my time.

dingedheart

08-06-2012, 04:15 PM

Unfortunately I know what you talking about ....its very sad.

I doubt you will have any luck talking to her ...save yourself ...save the kids... also having their kink come in contact with the kids by accident ... like emails..texts ...pictures, video is really damaging and expensive to clean up.

opalescent

08-06-2012, 04:46 PM

May I ask how long your wife has been involved with this particular dom? If it is a rather new relationship, she might be experiencing what some experienced BDSM folks call 'subfrenzy'. (I don't consider myself one of those 'experienced BDSM folks' btw.) It is similar to what poly folks call NRE or new relationship energy. NRE and subfrenzy can cause folks to make very stupid decisions, ignore prior relationships, ignore common sense and generally make asses out of themselves. Subfrenzy in particular can cause subs to seek out more and more extreme stimulation, more extreme scenes, ignore safety protocols, ignore their own good sense and instincts in choosing play partners. I suggest you go on fetlife.com (I realize looking at a BDSM website is the last thing you want to do!) and look around. There is some interesting stuff on subfrenzy as well as on being a sub in general. It cannot hurt to get some perspective on s

I mention this not to excuse her actions, but to give you another perspective on possible 'why's'.

It is very disturbing that she is ignoring your requests and encouraging her dom to do the same. It is very disturbing that he knows you are not happy about this situation and continues to do what he is doing. A respectful dom - one who gives a shit about his subs and their whole lives, not just their part in his - would have at least gotten more information from you and your wife.

It is possible you may have to threaten to end the relationship to get her attention. It is possible that in the throes of subfrenzy she may decide to end her marriage with you. Unfortunately, it seems to me you are already at the decision point of staying in the marriage or not. And that is something you can control. You can't control her decisions, her actions, or her beliefs. I wish you the best.

AutumnalTone

08-06-2012, 05:05 PM

I'm about to say, "The open marriage is now closed.. No more Dom.. It's DONE." ...

This. If it's not working for you and she isn't making an attempt to make it work, this is what's left.

It reallyreally sucks, yet that's what it is.

onceuponadream

08-06-2012, 07:17 PM

Originally Posted by CrapEndOfTheStick
I'm about to say, "The open marriage is now closed.. No more Dom.. It's DONE." ...

This. If it's not working for you and she isn't making an attempt to make it work, this is what's left.

It reallyreally sucks, yet that's what it is.

I'm very sad for you. It does not sound like a good situation.

As someone in a marriage AND in a BDSM relationship with our girlfriend, as well as having kids, I can say that what you describe is crossing lines both in BDSM etiquite as well as what I think you have described as your open relationship.

It very much sounds like a 1 sided "openess". I have to agree with the above poster that it might be wise to close shop for a bit and regroup until the two of you can find some middle ground, if at all.

GalaGirl

08-06-2012, 08:23 PM

PS: I do not know if this will help you. I do not even know if you still care enough about wife to try to help her get a better grip on realities of safe BDSM. Or maybe you are at the place of just protecting yourself and the kids.

It is a sad situation. :(

Subspace description of hormone cascade

http://collarncuffs.com/resources/doku.php?id=subspace
http://friskybusinessboutique.com/news/blog/the-endorphin-levels-in-bdsm-a-short-primer-on-sending-a-submissive-into-hyperspace

Possible sub frenzy symptons
http://safesubcenter.blogspot.com/2005/06/sub-frenzy.html
http://safesubcenter.blogspot.com/2005/06/sub-frenzy.html

There's ethics to BDSM -- and I don't know your relationship to the dom or if the dom even is a responsible one. But maybe they are not aware of the probs at home?

GG

newtoday

08-06-2012, 08:40 PM

I don't know much about BDSM but this is very disturbing to me.

I agree with DH, get out and get your kids out of this bullshit now before any permanent damage, particularly to your children. She is obviously not thinking with a rational mind. After that, if she wants you all in her life, she will find her way back.

Who, in their right mind, would want to go to work every day with bruises/marks on their face?!?! Shit, I'm all for a little spanking, biting, little marks, where they can be HIDDEN, not on show for the world but visible markings, particularly on the face, neck area? BDSM aside, she needs some help.

Good luck to you.
-NT

WhatHappened

08-06-2012, 08:54 PM

You have every reason in the world to worry about your wife showing up with bruises. People do assume. Many will not ask for clarification. If they do, will she tell them it's BDSM play with someone else or let them think the worst of you?

As a mother, it disturbs me greatly to hear of children crying for their mother while she makes her sexual experiences the priority over them. My older kids are well able to spend a few hours with the younger ones, and I still figure they have to do it often enough when I have to be at work, that I rarely see my boyfriend unless the kids are with their dad. My boyfriend respects that aspect of my life, me, and my children, and has never once pressured me to leave them for his pleasure.

You say the thought of her packing and leaving you with the kids is scary. If it comes to that, you will find a way. And as things are now, how much is it worth having her 'there' with you when she really isn't actually there, anyway? :(

CielDuMatin

08-06-2012, 09:16 PM

At this point, I'm about to drop the ultimate veto, which we'd also agreed to in the beginning. I'm about to say, "The open marriage is now closed.. No more Dom.. It's DONE." ... Based on what you have written, DEFINITELY this. At least put it on hold so that things can calm down. Yes she may have a hissy fit, but that's necessary right now.

Does she think that this is all working swimmingly? Or does she also admit that this is out of control?

Part of opening a marriage is going at a speed that everyone is comfortable with - it's quite obvious that you are NOT comfortable with this. So stop the momentum right now, get calmed down, and then see what can be explored in a far more controlled way.

One aspect that you need to have in place is this idea that she cannot shirk all her responsibilities to follow the BDSM stuff....

SNeacail

08-06-2012, 10:57 PM

You have every reason in the world to worry about your wife showing up with bruises. People do assume. Many will not ask for clarification. If they do, will she tell them it's BDSM play with someone else or let them think the worst of you?

People in certain professions or with certain licenses are "Mandatory Reporters" if they think you are abusing your wife and therefore possibly your children, they are required by law to report it to the police. Teachers, doctors, nurses, lawyers, police officers, etc.

What DH said - start protecting yourself and your children. What will she claim when faced with a custody fight? Speak with an attorney, look closely at your options and document everything (photo's, times, dates, the weather, your state of health, etc). If by some magical wand, she starts showing you the respect you deserve, great, if nothing changes you will be prepared.

monkeystyle

08-06-2012, 11:16 PM

Why are you even talking about it instead of doing something about it? You're just a convenient babysitter, nothing more. Don't just talk about doing better than that - make it happen! For yourself and your children. If not, and things are really the way you describe - then your wife's BF is dating the least submissive adult in your house. And he probably knows it.

dragonflysky

08-07-2012, 03:26 AM

What of your needs and your children's needs are getting met by your wife/their mother?? I don't care WHY she may or may not be doing what she's doing......the fact is she's living a very selfish life that seems to only take her wants/needs into consideration. For me, this isn't what being a wife and a mother is about. That doesn't mean that one's wants/needs as an individual aren't important, too, but your wife has also made commitments of "wife" and "mother" and I'm not seeing where those roles are being honored. I'm sickened by reading about the degree of her selfishness.....especially when it comes to innocent children who had no say about being a part of this family/relationship! :(

redpepper

08-07-2012, 08:32 PM

Sounds like its time to dom up. If she wants her men to be dominant then drop the Mr. Nice respectful thing and put your foot down. That's how I would play it anyway. I get really concerned when women go to doms and lose track of their responsibility because they are too high on the BDSM thing. It can be a drug for both parties and these two sound like they are in it bad. If I were in your shoes I would not date anyone and concentrate on getting your wife back.

She sounds like a whiney child to me and they sometimes need to be put over the knee and spanked (mistress talking here ;)). Seriously, I wonder if she would respond to a little assertiveness on your part. It might jolt her out of it.

As for the dom, I think he could babysit while you sort this out. Time to step up and be a real dom, one that has integrity and considers everyone involved. He's slacking on his responsibility by being selfish.

Maybe once they come down from this and get back to reality, they could take two weeks holiday together; one for him to beat her just as she likes and one to heal from it (emotionally, physically and to come back to reality). I wonder if you suggest this as an option (shows you are giving) there would be some movement towards thinking of her responsibilities again.

nycindie

08-07-2012, 10:16 PM

She informed that she and her Dom wanted to start doing slaps and strikes to the face. I sad emphatically "NO.. No way in Hell!" . . . I don't like seeing bruises and red-angry marks on my wife's skin that I know were left by someone's intentional actions... I don't care if she wanted it, I still don't like.. Number 2 and it's big one. She works in a very conservative office, and the last thing I need is a bunch of office-harpies thinking I'm beating my wife up, because she keeps showing up every so often with a bruise on her face.

I don't know much about BDSM but this is very disturbing to me . . . Who, in their right mind, would want to go to work every day with bruises/marks on their face?!?! Shit, I'm all for a little spanking, biting, little marks, where they can be HIDDEN, not on show for the world but visible markings, particularly on the face, neck area?

I just wanted to respond to these passages. I am not into BDSM, but I like to do some kinky things every now and then. I do occasionally like having my face slapped during sex, and have allowed two of my past lovers to do that. I have never had a bruise on my face from any of those instances. Yes, red marks in the moment, but never anything lasting. I'm not really into it for the pain or any humiliation; I just like the little bit of shock and surprise it gives me, and I really only like it when I am riding on top. So, perhaps I never was bruised because my lovers weren't actually trying to beat me, or because it's never anything I've done for a prolonged amount of time - since after a few slaps the shock value is gone. I can't imagine wanting to be slapped around as if someone was beating me in an attack, but I just wanted to say that I have experienced face slaps without having any marks on me afterward. So, maybe there is a middle ground where she could have a little of it as long as the technique used is very carefully and measuredly administered so as not to bruise.

Of course, I am not addressing all the other fucked-upness about her relationship with her Dom, which need to be addressed before anymore leeway is given her. I just wanted to address that one point. HTH.

LovingRadiance

08-07-2012, 10:32 PM

I've read the thread a few times-and not replied til now.
My first thought was "damn I hope RP reads this and replies (which she did)as I know she's a Dom with a BRAIN."

My second is
I am submissive (happens to be with my husband) and there have OCCASIONALLY been bruises that caught my boyfriends eye and worried him-because I do bruise really easy and something minute can cause a serious bruise depending upon location.

BUT-the bottom line is this

FIRST she is a mother. Anything else comes second and should NEVER be priority over the children's needs for BOTH PARENTS and all that entails. If she can't prioritize that-restrictions need to be put in place on the children's behalf.
There is another poster on here, dingedheart, with a horrifying story of a mom who wasn't prioritizing the kids and it had SERIOUSLY damaging effects on the kiddos.

SECOND-if her "Dom" can't prioritize and respect the responsibilities she has as a mother and a wife-they aren't doing their freaking job and therefore are not a functional, respectable or reasonable Dom.

nycindie

08-07-2012, 11:12 PM

. . . if her "Dom" can't prioritize and respect the responsibilities she has as a mother and a wife-they aren't doing their freaking job and therefore are not a functional, respectable or reasonable Dom.

Yes, but what can anyone do about it? You can't really sue him, if it was all consensual. This is my issue with D/s and these kinds of "contracts" when someone goes looking for a Dom, finds one, and in all their starry-eyed eagerness, gets into it with someone who's basically an unethical motherfucker who likes to be in control. Doms don't need to undergo any training, psychological testing, or test of their ethics, and they never seem to come under scrutiny for anything they do. Any asshole can say they are a good Dom, and newbies wouldn't really know if the Dom has any sense or respect for the whole dynamic unless or until it's too late, and then all anyone can do is a rescue mission. Very sad, and I hope it doesn't come to that for the OP. It seems that intervention is needed NOW, and I think Redpepper is onto something.

GalaGirl

08-08-2012, 02:58 AM

I think a rescue mission is where this is already at.

The only thing is WHO?

Rescue himself and the kids and get out of the crossfire ASAP? Or try to rescue the wife also from being all "bdsm drunk/addicted" right now?

She doesn't sound like she's thinking right. Prob is -- does she even care? And does OP even want to try to rescue her or is he done with this relationship?

It's a sad situation. I'm so sorry CrapEndofTheStick. :(

But really before you can decide on ANY course of action here you have to look inward and decide how much you love your wife and if that is enough to even be bothered any more to try to rescue her. It won't be easy or pretty.

And if you don't have it in you, do the right thing and get the kids protected and your protected. Because even if you DO try to rescue her, you have to do that part first anyway. Put your own oxygen mask on first.

THEN see who else on the crashing plane you can aid if you are still willing and able.

GL!
GG

snowmelt

08-08-2012, 04:05 AM

A submissive wife playing the dominant role with you...

Hmm... the next move with the psychological rubics cube. Trying to control her with your own anger and possibly a threat of leaving her is bringing you a lot of stress. How about the very opposite? You can't control her anyway, so how about taking care of yourself and your kids and then letting her do whatever she wants without any argument or resistance from you?

Yes, there is risk with this. I think the truth is her dominant person is encouraging her to disrupt her marriage with you. Arguing back at her is making this worse, which means arguing back is serving her dominant person. So how do you try to turn this around? How about doing the very opposite of arguing back at her. Let her do what she wants. This may just reverse the momentum her dominant person has created, which may just stress THEM out long enough to break them up. No guarantees here of course, but...

sometimes when a person is falling off a cliff, they actually don't know they are falling until they hit bottom. Maybe if you get out of her way and let her hit bottom, she will realize she has fallen in the first place. I think you're reality right now is you are actually married to her dominant person through her. His influence has reached far into your life. Maybe its time to get out of the way of his punch, so the force he uses to move his fist pulls him to the ground. You hold your body in a certain way when you prepare to swing at someone. What happens when there is no one there to hit (no resistance from you), your own swing wants to pull you down.

I wonder if the dominant person looks for married women - a relationship to disrupt?

turtleHeart

08-08-2012, 05:56 AM

You have every reason in the world to worry about your wife showing up with bruises. People do assume. Many will not ask for clarification. If they do, will she tell them it's BDSM play with someone else or let them think the worst of you?

She could very well use it to support a claim that her husband is abusing her and that's why she needs a divorce and full custody, if there's no evidence of it being from an extramarital relationship. With no police reports being filed against anyone else, and no public knowledge of your wife being in a BDSM relationship with someone else, people could only assume the marks are from you.

The relationship with the Dom needed to end as soon as he and your wife showed consistent signs of disrespecting the boundaries you and your wife had set.

CrapEndOfTheStick

08-08-2012, 06:57 AM

I want to thank every single one of you for your input and advice. I want to give an update on the situation..

Yesterday, after the kids were put to bed, I sat my wife down and told her that I needed to talk to her and I wanted her to listen to what I have to say, to please not interrupt, then when I've said what I need to say, then she can respond.. I guess she could see that it wasn't a typical sort of airing of a gripe, so she listened.. and surprisingly, without eyes rolling or furrowed brow..

I listed everything she was doing that was causing me and the kids distress, I explained how and why those things were causing problems, and I told her what I felt needed to be fixed. I explained how and why I felt she had no respect for me or my feelings and how that this guy may be her dom, but I'm her husband and I my feelings should be of a higher priority than his. I explained that leaving me with the kids every weekend is hurting them. Yes, I'm here and I'm a good daddy, but they need their mom too, and did she want them growing up with memories of a mom that seemed to prefer to be elsewhere?

Once it was all out on the table, I am happy to report that she did not fly into a hissy fit, although she did try to justify a lot of her actions. She tried to say that she works at a high-stress environment, she is burdened with a lot of responsibilities and needs her D/s activities. I told her that I have stress too, running this house, taking care of the kids and keeping things going around here isn't some cakewalk, especially with being disabled. I told her there are nights that I don't sleep because of the stress I'm under, but I don't neglect my family to relieve it. I'm not out every weekend at a bar getting drunk or whatever.. I'm a dad and I have a responsibility to be here. She nodded and looked at the floor.

We went over basically all of it.. the lack of respect was the only one that she got sort of huffy about, saying that she's an adult and her own person and I can't tell her what to do. I told her that's true, but she is also my wife and my feelings should mean something to her. If she's doing something that is hurting me, she should care enough to stop. If she doesn't care, then how can she even remotely claim to love me. Again, she nodded and looked more than a little ashamed.

I told her that I understood that she needed her time and I had no problem with that, but I can't keep going this way.

She hugged me and said she scale back on her extra-curricular activities, a lot less visits and respect my feelings on things. She also said if she ends up slipping back into the way she has been or doesn't follow through, she wants me to shut it all down by closing our marriage, and she wouldn't resist it or resent me for it because it would be because she wasn't able to do her thing without losing her head. Above all else, she apologized and told me she loved me...

At this point, I know a lot of people would be cynical and say she's full of crap, but I'm an eternal optimist and I'm going to give her a chance to make things right.. if she doesn't keep her end, I'll be moving this marriage to Monogamy City and if that doesn't work, I'll be taking the kids and visiting a lawyer... But I don't think it'll come to that.. I've been with her for over 12 years and what I saw in her face was my wifey, and not that cold selfish self-justifying narcissistic woman that I've been dealing with.

Again, I want to thank you all for your advice and input.. It gave me the courage to lay it all out to her and hopefully save my marriage.

GalaGirl

08-08-2012, 09:17 AM

Good. That was brave. *hugs*

Print this thread or at least remember we bear witness to this conversation. So YOU can remember this part you have promised YOURSELF as your HARD LIMIT. Enough with the caca!

I'm going to give her a chance to make things right.
If she doesn't keep her end, I'll be moving this marriage to Monogamy City and if that doesn't work, I'll be taking the kids and visiting a lawyer...

GL!
GalaGirl

nycindie

08-08-2012, 11:10 AM

I am so happy to read that you stated your concerns so honestly, directly, and emphatically. Because you focused on communicating your needs and concerns without letting your anger or frustration take over, you were able to express that anger and frustration without it getting in the way, and it seems that your intention to reunite and reconnect with your wife came through loud and clear for her to "get it."

It also seems that you have a good plan of action. I wish you all the best as you move forward, and I hope we get updates from you.

CielDuMatin

08-08-2012, 01:35 PM

This is truly fantastic news. It can take a lot of balls to have that sort of frank discussion, and to do it in a loving way. Sounds like you nailed it really well, and you got a great result out of it.

I'd like to pick up on just one detail of what you wrote, and see if you agree with my comment...

She also said if she ends up slipping back into the way she has been or doesn't follow through, she wants me to shut it all down by closing our marriage, and she wouldn't resist it or resent me for it because it would be because she wasn't able to do her thing without losing her head. I'd like to suggest that instead of this being YOU that shuts it down, that the two of you talk about it and come to a joint decision about it. This shouldn't be you "spoiling her fun" because no matter what she may say about not resenting you for it, human nature says that at some stage she might.

Much better is to do like you did in this discussion - lay it all on the table and let her come to her own conclusion that her outside relationships need to end, at least until you guys have the chance to structure it better. I just don't feel that you should be the bad guy, here, you know? These are her relationships and these are her choices - she need to know what it is doing to the people she loves (you and the kids) and takes actions accordingly.

Does that make sense?

LovingRadiance

08-08-2012, 07:20 PM

Great work.
It could all fail-but the truth is-there's no way to know without trying and I think you are doing an exemplary job of showing how to put forth a strong effort and still keep appropriate boundaries in place "just in case".

:)

redpepper

08-08-2012, 08:50 PM

I'd take her at face value and hold her to what she says. Sounds like there is a plan and that she is understanding what she needs to do. So glad to hear that! :) what a relief. I hope she does what she says she will do.

opalescent

08-09-2012, 03:08 AM

... This is my issue with D/s and these kinds of "contracts" when someone goes looking for a Dom, finds one, and in all their starry-eyed eagerness, gets into it with someone who's basically an unethical motherfucker who likes to be in control.

@NYCindie,

I have to disagree with the emphasis on the D/s bit. Anyone seeking a partner - dom, sub, vanilla, poly, mono - can choose to have shit for brains when evaluating a potential partner or how a relationship is going.

I really do think that poly NRE, kink subfrenzy and vanilla folk's 'love at first sight' are describing the same endorphin reactions. The symptoms are certainly similar.

[Preaching to choir begins now...] I think that one of poly's great gifts to everyone is the idea of NRE, how to recognize and manage it. Kink, at its best, can teach so much about consent. There is no need to be kinky or poly to learn 'best practices' from them. [Preaching to the choir over...]

The scenario above can happen to anyone, not just gullible subs. I'm certainly not denying that too many subs seem to lose their minds in a D/s haze and make poor decisions. But that's a danger for everyone.

Everyone, kinky or not, poly or not, submissive or not, has the responsibility to slow down, listen to their own instincts, ask questions, perhaps check in with other partners and friends, and generally act like an adult.

LovingRadiance

08-09-2012, 03:25 AM

GalaGirl

08-09-2012, 03:35 AM

I really do think that poly NRE, kink subfrenzy and vanilla folk's 'love at first sight' are describing the same endorphin reactions. The symptoms are certainly similar.

Everyone, kinky or not, poly or not, submissive or not, has the responsibility to slow down, listen to their own instincts, ask questions, perhaps check in with other partners and friends, and generally act like an adult.

I third. In my universe (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794) those are the bullets of

You are responsible for knowing and stating your wants, needs, and limits.
You are responsible for your own and your partner's buckets: the mind, heart, body, soul health buckets. Carry buckets with minimal slosh.

In the start of rship, I have not yet agreed to take on some of my partner's buckets on, and stop behaving like a footloose fancy free single and start behaving in a way that takes their feelings into consideration when I act.

But I know for damn sure I am responsible for my own mental health, emotional health, physical health, and spiritual health!

I won't go into something all willy nilly. Vanilla, poly, or kink -- I won't partner with just anyone and I won't partner without clear agreements laid out.

I apologize if I sound vehement or something -- it's just such a huge pet peeve. Freakin' play like honorable Jedi or don't play with me. I don't need a Muppet Show. :eek:

GG

opalescent

08-09-2012, 04:15 AM

@GG

But, but... I like the Muppets! I learned about relationships from Kermit and Miss Piggy! Gonzo showed me to go for the gusto even if it required chickens and cannons! Beaker showed me perseverence and forgiveness for one's idiot friends. Animal showed me how to live joyfully and completely present in the moment. The Swedish Chef showed me to that cooking mostly involved off-tune singing and flinging knives around. Sam the Eagle showed me the pompous side of patriotism.

I respectfully suggest that you consider changing your phrase to 'I don't want a reality show' or some thing like that. The Muppets are just too pure awesome, IMHO, to be associated with trainwreckedness. (new word- just made it up!) Even if Gonzo did wreck a train or two along the way...

opalescent

08-09-2012, 04:20 AM

@CrapEndofStick,

A belated 'well done' to you. It sounds like you were able to talk to your spouse in a way that she could hear. I wish both of you all the best.

GalaGirl

08-09-2012, 05:08 AM

LOL. I love to watch the Muppets in their awesomeness. I just don't want to LIVE in the wacky that was their backstage chaotic shenanigans. Even Kermit would reach the end of his rope and SCREAM at them. :)

But good word -- "trainwreckedness!"

I'll take that one on board.

GG ;)

Drifter

08-09-2012, 07:49 AM

I feel for you, and can completely understand where you are coming from. I was in a similar relationship, a marriage in fact (fortunately no kids, but a business together, which is kind of like a child). She started seeing someone - initially behind my back - then openly and (sort of) with my consent. She showed mant of the same traits as your lady. His wishes were paramount, mine were always of least important, complete refusal to bend on any of her wants, lots of projected blame on me, endless critical rants about me, how I wasn't accepting or respecting her wants/needs, how all the problems where with me, and she is merely following where her feeling go.

This is all self absorbed behavior, and to me speaks of someone who can't face the responsibility of her actions. It's always someone else's fault. If she is getting angry whenever you try to talk calmly, I would say that on some level she knows the wrongness of her actions, but can't deal so get's angry at you. Knowing this doesn't always help though :rolleyes:

I'd say you both need professional help if the marriage is to go forward. I never got this in time. But then my wife refused to go, which spoke volumes about her desire to actually repair things between us (she didn't have it, at least not a strong one.)

If your wife refuses to see a therapist, says the problem is with you not her, or continues with the 'I'll do what I like, consequences be damned' attitude, she's in no fit state to be in a marriage, and you need to seriously ask yourself if you want to have someone like that in your life. Harsh I know, but...