not sure what to do

[blahblah]

Kinda on my last line here I guess so i thought i'd give this a shot. sorry this is so long

My gf about 4 months ago cheated on me with a man, though I knew she had fantasies about him all the time, they became close. It wasnt a surprise but was really difficult. I live about 3 hours away but do see her at least twice a month for long weeks...

instead of cutting off the relationship, I was open to having her sleep with him. I also decided I should meet him. At first it was weird and akward. But hes a total nice guy. He knew that I was open to her sleeping with him. The first night I met him it got weird fast, They were kissing and going out for smoke breaks, and she would text me asking if she could sleep with him (and granted i was visiting and only had a limited days with er, and well i just met the guy), she didnt end up sleeping with him that night but the three of us did have a talk i explained to him how i was hurt but I was open to the idea of them being together. I laid some ground rules, which were basically "please dont have sex everyday". Of course that was futile and they did. She would disapear for hours on end and I wouldnt hear from her.

a few weeks later i went to visit my gf. well as she picked me up from the bus station and we got in a cab she was really anxious to go get food together. well come to find out this guy was sleeping in her bed. I guess they hung out the night before etc. She knew i was coming for weeks but whatever. I ran into him as he was leaving her apartment and we said we'd all chill later that night.

we all got along better. It seemed like this could work. She also started having sex with me less and less. she said she "wasnt attracted to me" anymore but then realized it was guilt she was feeling as if she was cheating on this other dude. we sort of worked it out, but our sex life was less and less

we still would see eachother and be romantic, and she claimed poly more and more. Summer hit and this dude had to go away for a job during the summer. I would go up and visit my gf or she would come here. I became closer to the dude. When she was over here i surprised her by having him skype with her to wake her up, or when i was over her place i'd do the same thing as week. he and i talked in detail about this situation and how its odd but we felt ok with it. His parents are pretty open so he told them and they were accepting. We even agreed to both go halfs on a ring for her as gift to give her when he gets back. We both have a lot of common interest too so we get along fairly well

He came back and he actually during the summer lives by me, so she came to visit for 8 days, 4 with him 4 with me. I knew that if she spent 4 days with him it would be unfiair to just rip them apart so i invited him to hang with out the first day even crash her if need be. She is madly in love with him and I knew it would damper So 4 days pass she comes here with him We gave her the ring she loved it kissed us both etc and has been def more touchy feely on the both of us. But I can tell shes way more into him then me. It sounds strange and i feel like a complete jerk. but shes more willing to kiss him. we all slept in my bed together and cuddled with her but something feels off i dont know.

to top it off i havent spent any alone time with her on this trip. as i type this they are in my bed sleeping. he was only suppose to be here one night but now hes been here two and on his third day here. All we've been doing is watching movies i took a vacation for this. Granted shes been sick I guess but shes also been really cuddley with him. she'll come over and give me a quick kiss or something Im trying not to let it get to me, and maybe im over reacting but it doesnt feel equal. i am all about it being equal and i dont need a ton of alone time with her, but this fall theyre practically going to be living together, then going abroad together, I will still be three hours away and limited on visits.

The thing is with this dude is hes very quiet and closed off. i on the other hand am vocal and wantto express feelings. I tried last night to "check in" to see how everyone feels. i didnt get much out of either of them, just that its fine etc. but we havent really discussed the situation all 3 of us together since april. they just seem off in their own little world though. But whenever shes having an issue with him she always leans on me and i always defend him pretty much in any situation. cause well, i genuinely do think hes a good guy. their have been times shes talked to me for hours about her issues with him and i've always been there. ive been paying for their food the days theyve been here (and he was supose to go halfs on the ring, but hasnt offered to pay me yet). granted they both are college students and i have a job..but this feels weird.

my gf is really claiming poly and im all for it, but it doesnt feel like it, and i feel like im getting the short end of the stick here. like i said im typing this and i can see them cuddling in my bed. it doesnt hurt so much that they are doing that, it hurts that this doesnt feel even at all. the priority seems him now and im just in the way. she sobbed at the thought of him going home this week while shes at my place, so i feel like i cant even tell the guy to leave or she'll lose it or just go back to his place. I completely understand i guess things cant be even, but is it weird she hasnt even offered to see if i wanted alone time with her, after shes been with him for 4 days well, i guess going on 6 now...am i just being used?

anyways i know this sounds like a mess, im leaving some really personal things out too. which might be critical to the situation but i dont know

[GalaGirl]

Kudos for working through the cheating start. That's not easy.

I'm not sure you all three have sat down to discuss what this new polyship will have for rights and responsibilities. These are my playbook (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794)for how I roll.

She sounds caught up in NRE -- new relationship energy and not balacing out with the ORE -- your older relationship that's already established.

So... I'd bring it up to both. Get a plan for the next (time frame?) to see how to best deal in time management so that some of your needs are being met too.

We don't all always get the megaHAPPY... but we can strive for "a reasonable happy medium" for all.

GL!
GalaGirl

[blahblah]

Kudos for working through the cheating start. That's not easy.

I'm not sure you all three have sat down to discuss what this new polyship will have for rights and responsibilities. These are my playbook (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794)for how I roll.

She sounds caught up in NRE -- new relationship energy and not balacing out with the ORE -- your older relationship that's already established.

So... I'd bring it up to both. Get a plan for the next (time frame?) to see how to best deal in time management so that some of your needs are being met too.

We don't all always get the megaHAPPY... but we can strive for "a reasonable happy medium" for all.

GL!
GalaGirl


yeah i dont think any of my needs are being met at all right now. its very odd. like i get they havent seen each other for 2 months, thats why i let them totally be those 4 days, that ahould be theres, andtheres alone, but the next 48 hours shes here, i doubt i will have time alone with her now. it seems on edge if i would suggest that he leave to give us time alone. they are going to be "living together" in the fall and going to paris together in the spring so i mean at some point where do i say "come on what about me?" im trying not to be selfish, i barely get to see her though. i dont know what to do.

[GalaGirl]

You speak up NOW and say "Alright, I'm happy for you guys. im trying not to be selfish, i barely get to see her though. So... can I have these next few days alone now? Is that reasonable?"

After you get past that point and hopefully enjoy the down time with your shared Sweetie to reconnect with just her...

"Thanks, guys. I needed that. Listen, when can we have a talk in Trio? There's changes coming with you living together and Paris -- can I be included in a conversation about how I fit into things over the next year so I too can map out other parts of my life? What time is a good appt time in the next few weeks?"

And no further and see how that it received.

Reasonable people (even if all pink fluffy lala NRE cloudy) will realize -- "oh! We've been all pink fluffy cloud lala! Crap! We need to be in right relationship here -- sorry, dude. Our bad!"

And will TRY to work with you on finding the happy medium.

But YOU have the responsibility to KNOW and STATE your wants, needs and limits. Get the convo ball rolling. Nobody is a mind reader.

Move it forward.


HTH!
GalaGirl

[blahblah]

yeah i tried that last night a bit. but i got shot down with "everythings fine" tho i should have pressed it more.

she seriously came out to the kitchen a bit ok "hey sorry we havent been sexual, but next time we see eachother we will be" which is in two months i guess, hes still here though. and i guess hes gonna be here for the next two so yeah

basically she had 4 days with him alone, i get no personal time with her, basically she told me to deal with it and that im "overreacting"

[Dagferi]

yeah i tried that last night a bit. but i got shot down with "everythings fine" tho i should have pressed it more.

You should have said "No everything is not fine. I am feeling {insert your exact feelings here}

she seriously came out to the kitchen a bit ok "hey sorry we havent been sexual, but next time we see eachother we will be" which is in two months i guess, hes still here though. and i guess hes gonna be here for the next two so yeah

If they are at your house you have every right to tell him he needs to go home. It is YOUR home. You have every right to ask for what you need for a relationship. Stop being a doormat.

My husband has the right to say "Hey kind of feeling neglected over here" when he feels I am giving my boyfriend too much of my time. He has every right to feel that way. Sometimes he DOES have a reason to feel like that. Others he has forgotten he had me to himself the whole week prior to my going to see my boyfriend for the weekend.

basically she had 4 days with him alone, i get no personal time with her, basically she told me to deal with it and that im "overreacting"

Now I usually hate the tit of tat comparison. My husband does it sometimes.. But in your case I do feel you are getting shafted. You need to stand up for yourself and do what is in your best interests. They may not realize what they are doing to you. Or maybe they do..

[TheCubist]

I'm no polyamory expert, but looking at it from here I notice that this polyamory thing was forced on you. It was either that or hit the bricks. I get the impression you went along with it simply to be able to hold on to her.

By invoking polyamory, she was able to avoid a messy scene and be branded as a cheater. Now it's your problem.

She said she's not attracted to you anymore. I'm not sure it's realistic to say she didn't mean it. She said it. And her reluctance to have sex with you is the actions behind the words.

You've been edged out. He moved into your bed and is banging your girlfriend every chance they get. Now they're going to Paris (this is where I currently live) which is THE most romantic city on the planet. Then they're moving in together.

She's promising sex with you in the next 3 months? I believe she's hoping you'll be gone for good by then.

I suggest you recover the little dignity you have left and get out. Or in the very least, get yourself another girlfriend for those long dry spells with the current one.

[blahblah]

Well, he left. We had sex. But imeditly After she started talking about the other dude. I dunno it just seems that's where her mind is.

[Skater21]

Get to acting on the advice that has been given, that would be my advice to you. If you continue to set a precedent that you can be walked all over in this relationship, that is exactly what you are going to continue to get. Stand up now! If not, I think it could be all downhill for you from here. Best of luck to you.

Skater21

[GalaGirl]

I have to concur.

Get a FIRMER want, need, limit out of her.

State your want, need, limit.


Something like...

GF, where we at? At this time? At this place?

I want a relationship with you. I am ok sharing you with Dude.

I need attention though, and that means regular time spent with me and in right relationship with me. Not me getting leftovers whenever handiest for you. I can make allowance for NRE, but hello? What am I? Chopped Liver? I cannot plan the rest of my life just being in the wings waiting to get feedback from you. What if I want to date others? What if I want to change jobs? What if... so tell me what times you are committed to spending with me to grow our "You + me" tier of the the polyship we share here. I can arrange my life to schedule those times to be free to be with you.

I have a limit -- if this is not the Thing any more, I need to know that clearly. Is there a Thing here any more? If yes, let's get the time management balance back to rights and grow the Thing.

If not a Thing any more, let's agree to part ways and not leave me hanging. We can be friends. But treat me nicely either way.

What are YOUR wants, needs, limits? I would like to hear your side of things.


And see what happens.

GG

[TheCubist]

I have to concur.

Get a FIRMER want, need, limit out of her.

State your want, need, limit.


Something like...




And see what happens.

GGExcept he has no leverage. He couldn't even set the limits of her not seeing someone else in the first place.

She already stated that she wasn't attracted to him anymore. She already is hot and heavy with this other guy to the point where they're going to move in together.

What is he backing his ultimatum with? The threat to leave the relationship?

Also, I have a question: If this guy can't affort to pay for food nor to go halvs on the ring .. how is he affording to take her to Paris?

[Skater21]

I think Cubist may have a point, you might not be in a position to make a strong ultimatum, but you need to do it anyway. Be prepared that it could be the end, but don't let anyone walk all over you and take your love for granted, you deserve better and there are other women out there. Be strong and be true to yourself and don't be afraid to send her packing.

Good luck!

[GalaGirl]

That's what I mean.

He must clearly state his LIMIT of "Look, we have to work on this. You say this but do this. So. What kind of rship is this now?

If you say you are still in it, then work with me and treat me right.

If you are not it in any more, treat me right anyway. And clearly say you are not so we can disband CLEANLY. So I can move on from a place of clear information given and no more of this hither and yon nonsense."

I don't have a problem with people realizing the end of the rship has come to pass. That happens. I do have a problem in beating around the bush and hemming hawing AND taking advantage -- using his house, his time, his energy, etc. That's just... ew. Not ethical at ALL.

Sorry, OP. I kinda got all GRR there. It's pet peeve. But still. You must talk to her and set things straight. Move yourself out of suffering -- ask for the clarify and set yourself free on a path to better rship with her or better rship without her. Either way you win -- better for YOU.

GalaGirl.

[AnnabelMore]

It seems like maybe she's ready to break up and is using poly as a way to do it without having to admit to you (or maybe even to herself!) what's going on. I'm sorry to be so blunt, but considering the way this was introduced to you, you're handling it amazingly, whereas she doesn't seem to be willing to consider your needs at any point. I would ask her point blank if she's not into the relationship any more, maybe even press her on the topic. If she insists that she's still invested and you want to keep trying, give her some things about NRE to read and hold her to future promises about alone time (not sex, necessarily, most people don't do well under that sort of pressure, but making time just for the two of you). Poly should never be an excuse for neglecting any of your partners!

[blahblah]

well we did get to spend a night and a full day without the other dude, it went well

last night all 3 hung out at my place, it was romantic and sweet, she cuddled and loved us both, but i still felt that she was way more involved with him

she even text'd me as we all were hanging out that she wished she had more alone time with him. an hour later they talked alone in my room for an hour, but they still had 4 days completely alone and will be seeing each other every day next month, whereas i only will see her for a long weekend once a month

it seems like she wants this to work, but she cant strike a balance, im not sure if it will get better as they become less and less new to eachother

him and i did hang out at my place after she left, he said he felt bad he was over so much, and thought we all got closer.

[Skater21]

Glad things went a little better the last couple of days, but remember you still need to be assertive when stating your needs. To me it sounds like you are being shuffled from primary to secondary position, (for lack of a better way to put it); if you're cool with that great, but if your not, you need to let that be known immediately. I'm all for giving of yourself to make your love happy, but if you give too much of yourself, what is left for you? Good luck to you. I hope everything works out the way you would like.

Skater21

[blahblah]

yeah maybe i dunno

i mean its weird but all three of us use this text program and when can see when eachother are online i'll text her stuff, she'll be online but she'll ignore my texts but i know the other dude is online and i know theyre chatting

its just little stuff like that that really gets to me, she has no idea how much it hurts

[Skater21]

Believe me, I know what you mean, my wife has a relationship with a man who lives far from us; they of course spend a lot of time messaging on Skype and such. It used to drive me crazy with jealousy. Everytime I'd leave the house, I'd be worried about them messaging each other. It took me a long time to get comfortable with it, and my wife was amazingly patient with me, but as I became more comfortable, I made it clear that I had a need to feel like I came first for her. When I am at home, I want to have her attention and affection focused on me. She has been great about this, she has moved her computer from the office to the bedroom, so that it isn't so secret what she is up to. When she wants to message him when I am at home she asks me if that would be okay. Not that I am her keeper or anything, just that she respects my need to feel like our family comes first. I never tell her no, but it is good to know that she is respecting my boundaries.

I get the feeling that your needs may not be being met, and your girlfriend may not be respecting your boundaries; probably because she doesn't know what your needs and boundaries are. Spell it out to her now. Let her know that you feel slighted when she doesn't respond to your messages, be flexible (like you have been) but also be firm. Your needs and boundaries are worthy of being respected. Never forget that!

Good luck!
Skater21

[TheCubist]

Forget it, brother. You went from the primary, to the secondary, to the third wheel, and now you're left to beg for scraps.

If you have any doubt, don't IM or communicate with her until she contacts you. Let's see how long that takes.

Please forgive me, but I"m beginning to suspect this is either a troll, or you're getting some sort of pleasure out of becoming a cuckold.

[GalaGirl]

I get the feeling that your needs may not be being met, and your girlfriend may not be respecting your boundaries; probably because she doesn't know what your needs and boundaries are. Spell it out to her now. Let her know that you feel slighted when she doesn't respond to your messages, be flexible (like you have been) but also be firm. Your needs and boundaries are worthy of being respected. Never forget that!

Nicely written there.

Own your own bag. Stop pussyfooting. You have the responsibility to know and state your wants, needs and limits.

Start making it concrete. Stop being vague.

Example: If you KNOW you get jealous when you are all on the program, own it.


Tell them both you feel jealous. You are trying to work on it and will be experimenting and appreciate their patience and support.
Stop using the program. Prob solved?
Use the program, and live with the fact that others are on there using it. Prob solved?
Tell her to make herself invisible on it and/or him. There. You don't have to look at it. Prob solved? (Not the best way, but solved enough for now perhaps.)
Remember you spend time with her in X area, so her spending time in Y program isn't a big thing. Prob solved?


I mean, do you get jealous they use the whole internet? Breathe the air you breathe? C'mon. That is YOUR baggage to own IF she's doing nothing malicious or mean or thoughtless to rub your nose in it in a mean way.

But she isn't a mind reader -- spell out your wants, needs, limits to YOURSELF and then to your poly peeps!

she cuddled and loved us both, but i still felt that she was way more involved with him

Sounds fine. What is your prob that you feel like she is more involved with him? Are yout counting kisses or something? What does she have to do to give you support and nurture so you can relax and give yourself permission to feel/get secure?

Is she doing it? X dates a week? Y phone calls? Being full present when it is your date time?

If she does all she can in the support and nurture areas? Then the problem is YOU and that you are not secure because you are not doing your work. And that is something only YOU can fix from within.

Work on this. She cannot MAKE you feel secure any more than she can make it rain or the sun shine. Feelings are just there, internal weather. We do not choose to feel it when we feel it. We can choose how to behave in response -- REACT or ACT WITH INTENT.

So... where you gonna take it next? This business of holding/owning your own baggage? She can help you unpack -- worries, fears, insecurities. She can even suggest that the blue shirt doesn't flatter you much. But it is YOU who has to throw out what no longer serves you and then repack your baggage and carry a lighter load. Personal growth.

Only you can decided to do this.

HTH!
GG

[TheCubist]

If she cared about his feeling in the first place she never would have cheated on him. She also wouldn't have told him that she was no longer attracted to him.

This is beyond his asking to have his feelings respected. He's been kicked out and he knows it - he just doesn't want to swallow the truth.

Nicely written there.

Own your own bag. Stop pussyfooting. You have the responsibility to know and state your wants, needs and limits.

Start making it concrete. Stop being vague.

Example: If you KNOW you get jealous when you are all on the program, own it.


Tell them both you feel jealous. You are trying to work on it and will be experimenting and appreciate their patience and support.
Stop using the program. Prob solved?
Use the program, and live with the fact that others are on there using it. Prob solved?
Tell her to make herself invisible on it and/or him. There. You don't have to look at it. Prob solved? (Not the best way, but solved enough for now perhaps.)
Remember you spend time with her in X area, so her spending time in Y program isn't a big thing. Prob solved?


I mean, do you get jealous they use the whole internet? Breathe the air you breathe? C'mon. That is YOUR baggage to own IF she's doing nothing malicious or mean or thoughtless to rub your nose in it in a mean way.

But she isn't a mind reader -- spell out your wants, needs, limits to YOURSELF and then to your poly peeps!



Sounds fine. What is your prob that you feel like she is more involved with him? Are yout counting kisses or something? What does she have to do to give you support and nurture so you can relax and give yourself permission to feel/get secure?

Is she doing it? X dates a week? Y phone calls? Being full present when it is your date time?

If she does all she can in the support and nurture areas? Then the problem is YOU and that you are not secure because you are not doing your work. And that is something only YOU can fix from within.

Work on this. She cannot MAKE you feel secure any more than she can make it rain or the sun shine. Feelings are just there, internal weather. We do not choose to feel it when we feel it. We can choose how to behave in response -- REACT or ACT WITH INTENT.

So... where you gonna take it next? This business of holding/owning your own baggage? She can help you unpack -- worries, fears, insecurities. She can even suggest that the blue shirt doesn't flatter you much. But it is YOU who has to throw out what no longer serves you and then repack your baggage and carry a lighter load. Personal growth.

Only you can decided to do this.

HTH!
GG

[GalaGirl]

Well, OP needs to walk the walk for himself.

Can't really say more than I already have and I agree with you. It's not complicated -- it is super simple. Just not EASY for the OP to feel or do.

It is this crossroads:


GF -- if you say you are still in it, then work with me and treat me right.

GF -- If you are not it in any more, treat me right. Clearly say you are not so we can disband CLEANLY and not me being used.

GF -- You are not making a move, therefore I must treat me right and make the move without your input. *I* call for this relationship disbanding. You don't want to play honorably with me and I'm sad, but I must treat me right to spare me further pain rather than this going on and on.


Hang in there, blahblah. *hug* Do what you gotta do that is best for YOU.

GalaGirl

[blahblah]

yeah

i dont know, maybe i am the third wheel ive asked her if i was "in the way" even him and they both denied it

i feel like shes putting too much effort in if she wants to kill it (ie actually staying over here, still showing me lots and affection when the three of us are together)

nah not counting kisses, but there are ways i guess hes getting more and im not, it sounds stupid, but they are just certain actions

i wouldnt be so anxious hurt etc if i got to see her constantly, but i dont, and in a month they'll be back together every day, and as i stated before, my time is so limited with her, i totally support her and the other dude and dont wanna eat up there time, again the balance just feels extremely unfair. I have confronted it about her but she turns it around to "arent i giving you enough, youre never happy, ugh"

so i get scared

and no im not a troll and no i dont enjoy this pain, but when we are alone she does feel very lovey and attached to me. But i only got maybe a day of that.

[GalaGirl]

That is the reality of the LDR relationship. My OSO (years past) was my LDR BF. He hated that Local BF (now DH) had access to me in ways he did not. But that was a reality of the realtionship. School, work, money, etc all put limits. He learned to live with that. I told him to seek a local Sweetie too -- because I'm sorry. In that time? In that place? I couldn't CHANGE anything about it to be his local Sweetie!

And the door was open -- here he chose to be with me. I gave all I could give. How is it my fault the Universe makes it so he craves more than I have to share? I cannot clone me! So I told him to own what he signed up for willingly, and stop leaking all his baggage on me -- his insecure, bad mood, blahs. If this is not pleasing you any more, walk away. I warned him in the contract. I can help unpack baggage, I can support, I can nurture but everyone carries their own baggage. Don't be foisting yours on ME to carry. I carry my own.

I do not know if you are LDR to her -- and it is a problem of geography only. Or if it is also a problem of time schedules. But Own the reality of this relationship in this time and place. Or let her go.

You can't make another Thursday pop up midweek. You can't change school times or work times magically. You cannot keep torturing yourself like this.

You keep leaking bad self-esteem/insecure on to your poly peeps? They will get so over your tiresome Eeyore butt. Who wants to hang with that?

Are you depressed? You are responsible for your own equipment. Get a check up.

They can nurture and support and reassure til the cows come home but if you refuse to BELIEVE and be ok -- then it gets this polyship nowhere fast.

If having/seeing them in your home is too much, DO NOT INVITE THEM AGAIN LIKE THAT. You tried a thing, hoping to feel compersion, and found it was a mixed bag of compersion and weird.

So... you learned something. It's your move dude.

Decide how you want to be in this relationship and BE it. Enjoy it for what it IS.

Or do not be in this relationship. And be free of suffering.

But this business of torturing yourself -- unless you like the s/m thing -- what for? You do not sound happy.

GG

[GalaGirl]

PS: I do not mean any of that unkindly. I mean it in a compassionate but firm way. I feel sorry you are hurting. But only you have the power for it to STOP hurting. :(

You have to decide SOMETHING here. Only you know what that might be.

[snowmelt]

She is not poly because she is not honest. She cheated and lied. You decided to work with her to polish the results of her lying and cheating. Your efforts gave her something. It gave her the "balance" that works for her. She wants to be with him a lot more than she wants to be with you, and she is. At this point I would go even further than that and say she wants to be with him and not with you at all. She is obviously getting something from you being there that she wouldn't be getting if you left her (is it money? is it a place to have sex?), so she's not going to tell you she doesn't want you at all.


She has no incentive to give you more of her time or attention, because you've clearly shown her you'll ask for more and accept it when she says no. The three of you are going to continue doing this dance until you grow some self confidence and see what is really going on here. You're being used. My suggestion is to let them have each other and move on with your life. The funny thing is, even if you have the confidence to get on with your life, once you are no longer providing for them, they may not want each other when they have to experience the work of providing for themselves.


The other guy feels special right now, because he is getting a lot of attention from her. That's hard for you to watch. She will eventually lose interest and cheat on him too. When the other guy looks at you, he thinks he is seeing the poor guy she doesn't want anymore. He is actually seeing his own future if he stays with her long enough, because this dance is the way she lives her life. He just doesn't know it yet. In my opinion, blahblah, the best thing you can do for yourself is let them have each other and move on with your life.