Vicki's Journey

[Vicki82]

I'm pretty confused and looking for some viewpoints. To be honest, I'm not sure what specifically I need help with and I think writing it all out will help. So please feel free to comment away!

I'm 30 years old, and I've been happily married for 7 years in a monogamous relationship. My background is that I used to be an erotic writer since early in my marriage (quit when I had my son, now 2 1/2) and my characters were always having extramarital sex with the blessing of the spouse, so my husband knew that the latent desire was there for me. In January of this year, we opened our marriage to the point where he would allow me to seek other partners sexually because he knew it was something that I needed. We agreed that it was going to be purely to meet physical needs. He told me that he would remain monogamous because he is a one woman man.

Since then, I've had several new partners, and while I always like to have at least some kind of connection with them, there were no emotions involved beyond what you'd consider to be a very casual acquaintanceship. I always thought I would be emotionally monogamous, just having sex with other men. We found that our marriage got stronger as I had my needs met elsewhere. My husband and I found ourselves falling deeply in love again and we were happier than we've been in years. He told me that he thought it was so weird to say that our marriage got more better now that I fuck other men, but it's the truth!

Then, three months ago, I met a man online on a MBL dating site (married but looking, which is where I have been finding my partners since I did not want a relationship!). I was going to be travelling to his city (3 hours away) for a weekend visit with another friend and I was looking for a one night stand while I was there. So we arranged to meet for lunch and then hook up if we had chemistry. But the date was over a week away and we found ourselves video camming every night for hours. We didn't have cybersex, although we did flirt. The chemistry between us was so intense that I knew before we even met that I was going to want more than a one night stand.

We met for lunch, and it wasn't long before we left to go back to his house. He is married, but in a DADT relationship; so his wife is fine with him having other partners but she doesn't want to know about it. She was out of town for the weekend. We had incredible sex all day and night long. I had never known that things could be this good, especially with a new partner (I've always found that sex gets better as you get to know your partner). We agreed that we had to see each other again, despite the distance.

Since then, we've been seeing each other an average of every 3 weeks, always for overnights because of the distance. The sex has remained incredible, and perhaps has even gotten better. I don't have a car, so with the exception of that first weekend, he's come to see me every time. In between, we talk every single day. We usually text or email during the workday, and in the evenings we usually chat for a couple of hours unless someone has plans. The NRE has been extremely intense for me. I have strong feelings for him, but I know it's only been three months so I really don't know what those feelings are except that I want him in my life. My husband is supportive of my relationship with him now that he has his mind wrapped around it (when he first found out there was an emotional component to our relationship rather than pure sex, he had some concerns and I don't blame him, but he is fine with it now).

Obviously, neither of us was looking for anything exclusive. Given the distance, that just wouldn't be right, not to mention that we were both already seeing other people when we hooked up. Since then, for reasons unrelated to him (things with the other men weren't meeting my needs), I have ended things with my other partners. Of course, things were different with them anyway; it was far more casual and definitely no emotion involved. We just had a casual acquaintanceship and enjoyed sex.

He was and still is seeing some other women. He is involved in kink, so he does have a lot of sexual contact with women. He has a D/s relationship with one other woman that he's been seeing in January, and she's the one I have the hardest time handling. She's local to him, so they see each other about once a week. I can only wish I could see him that often. I know that they aren't together for as long as we are, since we always overnight and they are usually only together for a couple of hours, but it still bothers me. I also find myself frustrated knowing that she is giving him something that I can't, since I don't identify as a submissive. He doesn't expect that of me and we have a more than satisfying sexual relationship but I still worry despite his assurances that I'm not giving him what he needs. Then, he and I have been experimenting with a particular sexual activity, and taking it slowly. He told me a couple of weeks ago that not only did he do it all with her, but she loved it. That really hurt and made me wonder why he'd still want to do it with me since it is more difficult for me and apparently easy with her.

Then, I worry because of the distance, that he is just going to not want to go to all the hassle to see me anymore. I mean, it's not like he has a shortage of sex locally. Or maybe he'll find someone more attractive for whatever reason, or who can satisfy him sexually better. I have expressed my worries to him and he did tell me that he is not looking for any more partners. I still worry about him getting tired of the distance and deciding he's fine with his two local women and his wife.

I know he has similar worries about me at times. He knows I am actively looking for some local partners since I have none right now, but that I want to keep things mostly sex based with them. He has told me he's afraid I will find someone who will rock my world and be local and that he can't compete with that since we're LD. I try to assure him that he means more to me than just the sex (although that is freaking incredible anyway!) and that he has nothing to worry about, but it doesn't seem to help.

There's also been a bit of a change lately in the way he's reacted to me. He has known all along that I've been meeting other men, although I hadn't found one that met my standards as a friend-with-benefits yet. He asked that I keep him up to date on my search because he found it to be a turn on to hear about my sex with other men. There have been a few times where he told me that he worried about someone else being local, but it was rare. Then this time I had a lunch date with a local man that I liked, and I told my lover that I was going to have sex with him next time I saw him. My lover got a little withdrawn (even via text message) in a way that he hadn't before and told me that he was worried that I would find someone to replace him. I tried to reassure him that he was special to me but he said it was easier said than done for him to stop worrying, which is how I feel, too.

I'm just not good at relationships in general. I have been with my husband since I was 18 years old, so I'm far from experienced. I'm used to being completely open and honest with no secrets. I'm not used to the rollercoaster and general uncertainty of being with a new partner. I'm not comfortable enough in our relationship yet to ask for reassurance when I need it, because I don't want to be needy and insecure, although I am happy to give it to him when he needs it. Also, we express our emotions differently and I know that is difficult for me. My husband and I tend to be verbally demonstrative, and my new lover seems to show me more with actions that he cares. At least, I assume he does, because I can't imagine many men would drive 3+ hours one way to see a woman every few weeks and spend hours every night talking to her if they didn't actually like her. But I don't feel secure enough; what if I ask him for what I want, and it makes him uncomfortable?

And I just don't know how to deal with my feelings of jealousy and fear of being dumped. Those are very negative emotions and I don't want them in my life. I had such a wonderful weekend with him just now, and the night he left I was full of worry and insecurities. It spoiled the time we shared a little bit because I just felt so miserable.

It's just bizarre. I've never been happier or more fulfilled in my life. I have my wonderful husband who is so supportive of me, and I have my new lover who takes me places sexually that I've never been. I'm worried that I will do something to screw it up. And by worrying about it, I make it more likely that I will do so!

So I don't really know where to go from here. I never saw myself as poly, and never even imagined I had room for two men in my heart. That has never happened before; every time I became interested in someone new, I lost interest in my current partner. I am still madly in love with my husband, so that hasn't happened now. I still am not even sure I can identify myself this way because the label just feels so serious to me, if that makes any sense. I don't even know if my situation really counts or not. But I certainly don't want to leave my husband for my lover, and I don't want my lover to leave his wife for me. Oddly enough, I am not jealous of his wife; just his other girlfriends.

So where does this leave me? Thanks for any comments.

[KyleKat]

Read your post. I found the answer in there and I'm pretty sure you will too.

Regarding the submissive, you need to worry less about what you can't or won't give and just focus on what you can give. It's not about better or worse. It's about different. That's why we choose this lifestyle. It's hard for one person to give us all we want. So we seek it from multiple sources. That doesn't mean we aren't in love with one or the other. Love is additive, not subtractive. You build on it. You don't split it up and share it.

Read the ethical slut. It talks about all of this and it's a good educational read.

[Vicki82]

I've read the Ethical Slut. It helped me feel more normal about fucking other guys in the first place. Keep in mind I am coming at this from a monogamous background and have been heavily resisting the idea that I could be something else. Extramarital sex has made sense to me, but these feelings are brand new and I don't know how to handle them.

If it was just as easy as reading my own post, I wouldn't be having all this angst. But thanks anyway.

[KyleKat]

I've read the Ethical Slut. It helped me feel more normal about fucking other guys in the first place. Keep in mind I am coming at this from a monogamous background and have been heavily resisting the idea that I could be something else. Extramarital sex has made sense to me, but these feelings are brand new and I don't know how to handle them.

If it was just as easy as reading my own post, I wouldn't be having all this angst. But thanks anyway.

I come from a monogamous background as well. It's not easy but eventually you learn to deal with the emotions. If you've already read that book then you're ahead of the game.

By telling you to read your own post I was trying to point out that you said things that only poly people would say. You love two people. You don't want to leave or lose either of them. You are poly and you're handling something new fairly well. Good job. :) Keep at it.

[Vicki82]

I guess I chose my subject poorly... I'm not really sure what I was hoping for, but maybe some general advice?

I'm also not sure if I'm in love with my lover (despite the term). After all, it has only been three months. I know I care about him very much but no idea how to sort out if I'm in love with someone new, frankly! Being LD, I think NRE is going to take a while to dissipate. I don't think that part is all that relevant though. I'm more worried about dealing with my other feelings.

[Vicki82]

I just feel so alone. I mean, it's not like there are loads of people I can talk to about my situation! And I'm the kind of person who really needs connections to sort things out.

I struggled before even when I just started having casual extramarital sex, because again that was something I couldn't share with anyone. This is even harder. People might understand me having a desire for multiple sex partners... but having a man that I call my lover? I feel lost.

[UnderMind]

Seems to me like you're talking about it now, and that can only be a good thing!

It is, indeed, difficult to find other poly people to talk directly to, sometimes, especially if you prefer real-time chats either f2f or online -- but they are out there!

There may be poly meet groups in your area, too, which may be worth connecting with. Also, if you're in the UK or able to travel here, there's OpenCon 2012 which is a really great way to meet other poly folk and participate in a wide range of workshops discussing all manner of poly issues.

[Vicki82]

I agree that it helps to talk about it here but I guess I was kind of hoping to get some comments and feedback from people here on how to deal with things.

I'm in Canada, and I don't have a lot of time for going out to things because I don't drive. I didn't need realtime chats, but I thought I might get a few comments at least.

[GalaGirl]

I'm just not good at relationships in general. I have been with my husband since I was 18 years old, so I'm far from experienced.

At what? Being in relationship? Obviously you have a strong runner in the married one. You do fine. :)

I'm used to being completely open and honest with no secrets.

Sounds like a sane plan.

I'm not comfortable enough in our relationship yet to ask for reassurance when I need it, because I don't want to be needy and insecure, although I am happy to give it to him when he needs it.

You make no sense because you are in a fluster. Calm down, breathe, BREATHE. Then?

Consider flipping this around in this order. It is not "because I don't want to be needy and insecure." You ARE feeling that. You are that right now. Put that FIRST.

1 "I AM feeling needy and insecure."

We cannot help what we feel when we feel it. We don't even get to choose when to feel it. It just is. Emotional weather. Rain is rain, wind is wind. Emotion is emotion. We DO get to choose how to behave in response. You can choose to REACT to emotion or ACT WITH INTENT. What did you pick?

2) So far you have chosen to stay silent. How's that working for relieving your insecure emotions? Nope. Not good solution. Conclusion? "To feel better, I need reassurance from my new partner." So what is problem in getting reassurance then?

3) "I do not feel comfortable enough in our relationship yet" to do that. Why not?

Spit it out. You GET comfortable by DOING. Speak up. Can you do that? Sure you can. Why? Because you are used to being completely open and honest with no secrets. That isn't a bad way to be. It's a good way. And I think you feel extra weird because you aren't doing it here. Get on with doing it.

In my world? (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=49794) It is YOUR RESPONSIBILITY to the relationship to know and state your wants, needs, limits. Your partner has the RIGHT to clear communication. Own your end of the sticks, please. He cannot mind reader you. Speak up.

4) "I don't feel secure enough; what if I ask him for what I want, and it makes him uncomfortable?"

So he has some emotional weather. So what? Rain is rain. Wind is wind. Emotion is emotion. Let it blow on through. We're all grown ups. Felt many kinds of things before. You hold your own bag, he holds his.

His responsibility to YOU is to report his internal weather because YOU have the right to clear communication. So you tell him you expect him to know and state his wants, needs and limits so you can learn about him. But you are not a mind reader. Speak up, dude!

That's why this is dating. With older partners you can usually get it in the ballpark by taking a stab in the dark because they are older partners and you know the whole arena. With new partners, you have to be given the tour of the floorplan. Get on with the tour. :)

It will help you BOTH grow more comfortable and feel better too.

And I just don't know how to deal with my feelings of jealousy and fear of being dumped. Those are very negative emotions and I don't want them in my life.


Emotion is emotion, hon. Are you planning to be dead? I joke just to try to get you to laugh because you seem down. But I'm serious about this part -- Emotion is just Life Stuff. It doesn't have to be the end of the world, esp when we do not get to choose when we feel what we feel! We only get to choose how to respond to the emotion -- chose to react or act.

What are these fears speaking to then? Where you think "OMG! What if I get dumped!" and you go on a chain reaction of what-iffing yourself to a tizz? Is it just new rship jitters? That he's into kink and you are not? So? Do you have to be joined at the hip?

That you don't know how things work here yet with him and emotional things or conflict resolution? Is your new partner shirking on his reporting? Are you having to mindreader?

Is it that you might feel yucky someday? Have you never in your life felt yucky? It's can be hard to feel, but a broken heart still keeps on beating. World still turns. Why miss on out on savoring the yummy today for uncertainty in future that is not here? What if you have yummy in future and missed today's yummy for nothing!?

Is it something else this fear is speaking to? What?

Some partners are for life, some for a reason, some for a season. I was very heartbroken when my OSO faded from my life, even if it WAS a great way to fade and really gracefully and I could not have asked for a better ending. That man taught me grace, class. He had style, and he had the ability for compersion in spades.

But because it was fresh wound, I hurt. That is not unreasonable to expect in such a time even if it was the RIGHT THING to happen then. That I learned from my DH. "I am upset. I do not find this unreasonable to feel at this time. I love you. I do not love THIS. And we will deal." He has a capacity for clear emotional management that I admire and continue to learn from.

In time, I healed. OSO has become a lovely experience and memory, which I'm glad I took the risk for and look back on fondly. My heart grew then, and remains full from having enjoyed that. He was a good man. I am grateful our paths in Life crossed for a few years.

But I believe all relationships come with a clock attached just as John Cleese puts it. My DH? We're counting on decades here and one day that too will end. I hope when one of us dies, and hopefully dies in peace in elder years, and we're prepared. Nobody can ask for a smoother end of a marriage than that. An older friend just lost her DH in older years and they were a fantastic couple. She's handling it well, and he passed peacefully. I envy this, I hope our own story plays out similar.

So... what's the freakout over breaking up or things coming to an end? If you are worried that it could end UGLY -- well, make an agreement for how you prefer it to end when it ends. Talk to your partner to assuage your worries. Take the bull by the horns.

Worrying when you could be talking and sorting it out and moving on to the feeling better place instead makes no sense. Why stay at the worry place?

And worrying excessively is like praying for what you do NOT want.

Takes a toll on mental health/stess levels.

Hang in there! But the choice to stay silent is not working for ya, so just try another tack and be OK with yourself being a learner of this new person. It is a new relationship and agree to assume good intent with each other as you learn the ride. Everyone falls off a bike several times before they get the hang of it, right? BREATHE.

You ARE good at relationships. See that husband person? You just haven't played ball in a new arena for a while. No big. You DO know how to play ball.

So... play ball! :)
GG

[sparklepop]

^^ I loved GalaG's post!


Hi :)

Something struck me when reading your thread.

You say there were other reasons for ending things with your other lovers... but sometimes, we meet someone we connect with and the old monogamy wiring kicks in and we just get rid of everything else to form some sort of pseudo-monogamous relationship with this new person. Especially if we fear them leaving us... we can subconsciously hope that us getting rid of others will encourage them to do the same. Then when they don't, we start dating again. And we look for their reaction.

Because your marriage is wonderful and full of love, your NRE with your lover is going to be even stronger... because your mind is exploding with freshly poked insecurities and internal drama. Just try to be aware of that and don't lose sight of your husband whilst you are going through all this.

I know that you want to deal with your insecurities. It's great that you've pinpointed that. Maybe I can tell you the ones I picked up on and this might help you focus on them?

I do agree with GalaGirl that you should be able to communicate your fears and insecurities to your lover. However, you have to be careful not to push them onto him - you have to own them yourself. You have to try to find that balance between being too 'needy' and communicating. For me, being too needy is needing constant (daily) reassurance on the same issue, over and over. Communicating is saying "I'm new to this and it's bringing up some personal issues I have to deal with. Can we please have a conversation about where we stand so that I know where your thoughts are?"

I know that they aren't together for as long as we are

This is the classic comparison cop out.

Throughout my post, I'll use my experiences to relate to you, if this helps you to feel less alone. :)

Last week, my girlfriend slept with someone else for the first time in our 1.5 year relationship.

I was just starting to deal with the pangs, when she told me that he wasn't great in bed.

What do you know? Immediately my pangs went away. I was actually frustrated - I know that if my feelings go away because something is poor in comparison to something I give her, I'm not really dealing with my feelings. It's a cop out.

What you have to do is imagine they are together for as long as you are. Then what? What difference would that make to you? Really force your mind to consider that.


she is giving him something that I can't, since I don't identify as a submissive. He doesn't expect that of me and we have a more than satisfying sexual relationship but I still worry despite his assurances that I'm not giving him what he needs.

I used to have this worry too. (I'll keep relating to my experience if this helps). My GF is a Mistress and I am the first woman she has been with, sexually and in love. I used to constantly worry that she'd be better off with a sub boy.

Now I don't think like that.

I'm giving her something that other people can't give her.

I'm a Mistress and I can tell you with 100% certainty that whilst I love D/s sex and need to get that somewhere, my favourite sex is with my girlfriend. Passionate, wild, fun, intense, Domme vs Domme sex. ~grins~ Just because I need D/s, doesn't mean it's actually my preference in the bigger picture. I just wouldn't want to live without it.

Another thing is that, to be honest, Domming people can be tiring. Sometimes there's nothing better than cutting all the D/s crap and just having sex. Sex that doesn't require my complete orchestration of control. Non-D/s sex can be a respite from D/s sex!

Furthermore, you hit the nail on the head - "she's giving him something I can't".

You have to remind yourself that this is what poly is all about. You can only tick certain boxes for a person; you cannot tick every box.

Yes, it is a possibility that he prefers the D/s sex and ultimately, given the choice, would give up your sex for that. But given that the sex between you is amazing, I'm doubting that is that case. And given that you are poly - he doesn't have to choose - he can have both and be happy. Keep reminding yourself - that's the point of poly.


Then, he and I have been experimenting with a particular sexual activity, and taking it slowly. He told me a couple of weeks ago that not only did he do it all with her, but she loved it. That really hurt and made me wonder why he'd still want to do it with me since it is more difficult for me and apparently easy with her.


I understand your feelings on this. This relates to the idea that poly means the end of special things. And to some extent, it does.

Again, my personal experience - there is one thing that only I can do for my girlfriend. She's had about 60 lovers before me and I was the first person to give her this experience that she loved. Then she taught her new sub boy my technique. So now he can do it to her too.

I had a five minute stomach twisting AGHGHGHG moment.... and then said... no... you should enjoy sex and if you love that thing, I am happy to have shared my (very talented) gift with you ;) (haha)

As for your lover wanting to do it with this other girl more because it's easy...

Let me tell you something... I have a massive thing for straight women. Do they turn me on because it's easy? Nope! They turn me on because they are slow-moving, cautious, timid, naive, new, scared. I love that. I also love corrupting people ;) It is very possible that your new lover feels the same way about you in terms of this thing you were shy about doing.

Ultimately, if he doesn't, it means he'll be happier elsewhere. And that is the point of poly - finding happiness.

As much as it would hurt me, I'd rather my partner leave me and find what she needs/wants, than stay with me for the sake of it. That's the best way to look at this.

(Also, you might want to have a talk about how much info you reveal to each other - that level of info might be too much for even the most experienced poly players in here).


Then, I worry because of the distance, that he is just going to not want to go to all the hassle to see me anymore. I mean, it's not like he has a shortage of sex locally.


I'm not going to lie - this could happen.

But... would I travel from England to France to have sex with Audrey Tautou regularly? Definitely. Hahaha. Seriously. And I don't have a shortage of sex locally ;)

In fact, my girlfriend lives in the US. I pay a lot of money and make a lot of sacrifices to travel around the world to see her, because our connection is worth it.

A connection is a connection - if it's there, nothing stands in the way easily.

If things easily get in way, the connection is not as strong as you thought and there is no point living a lie. You'd be selling yourself short.


Or maybe he'll find someone more attractive for whatever reason, or who can satisfy him sexually better.


Obviously, this self-confidence needs working on :)

He could find someone physically hotter, but still feel an intense attraction to you.

He could find someone better in bed, but still feel this amazing connection during sex with you.

He could find someone hotter and better and it could eradicate his feelings for you. You cannot change that. The same thing could also happen to you one day - you could prefer someone else to him.


I have expressed my worries to him and he did tell me that he is not looking for any more partners. I still worry about him getting tired of the distance and deciding he's fine with his two local women and his wife.

Just be careful about drifting into a closed poly situation with him.

I do think that closed poly is absolutely fine when people decide they want that. I will probably want that in about 10 years.

But if you force closed poly as a way to hide from your insecurities and fears, you will be selling yourself short.

Far better that you face those fears head on and grow strong.


If this helps at all, I was very jealous and insecure before I was poly. For various reasons which I won't go into. I did all those ridiculous crazy mono woman things like reading my boyfriend's texts and getting jealous when he had female friends.

It wasn't until I met my girlfriend 1.5 years ago and became poly that I realised how fearful I was.

The first 6 months of our poly relationship were very hard. We were very jealous, very accusatory with each other and didn't deal with our emotions well.

But... I'm really not exaggerating when I say this... every single argument and upset and scary event we've ever had over the past 1.5 years has taught us something.

Today, I still get a little insecure and a little jealous, but I feel a million times more stable than I did back then. I genuinely believe that is greatly down to poly and greatly down to confronting my fears... letting go of them... letting go of my desire to restrict my partner through fear... and just accepting that she loves and wants me, in this moment.

We have always had an analogy about poly and our arguments surrounding it. We have a house. Every time we hit an issue, we're hitting a rotting brick. We confront that issue (our fear), pick it apart, deal with it and replace it with a good brick. We knocked a hell of a lot of bricks out of that house last year. And now, our relationship and our personal security has many, many more good bricks - it's a much more solid house. We are much more solid people.

I used to think that the worst thing in the world would be abandoned by someone I love. Now I think that the worst thing in the world is kidding myself. if someone prefers someone else and would be happier, far better that they chase that rainbow than waste your time and energy.

I hope that this answer helped a little bit. :) Sorry I waffled!

[Vicki82]

Thanks for that feedback, I appreciate it.

The idea behind me not talking to my lover about how I feel is more that I feel that it's MY issue, not ours. Therefore I don't think it's right to dump it on him; I'd much rather deal with my feelings on my own. I'm not really sure how though which is one reason why I am here.

It's also not that I'm not into kink, because I do enjoy some activities very much. I'm just not into D/s. And it's definitely not that I don't want him to be happy. I would feel awful knowing he wasn't getting regular sex if he had no one local. I care about him so why would I want him to be miserable?

Frankly, these feelings are about as unattractive and un-fun as they get. I get that when a relationship is more than sex, there will be some un-fun elements to it, but most of the time I think it's better to enjoy the positive in a relationship. That's a big reason why I don't want to talk about my feelings, too.

Please keep in mind that he doesn't identify as poly, either. I think for both of us that it's a very loaded, heavy term. I'm having enough trouble dealing with the idea that I might be, because I have never seen myself that way.

No, I really didn't get rid of my other partners because of him. One wasn't able to see me with the frequency I wanted, so I didn't feel like keeping in touch with him to have sex once every three months, and the other treated me like a booty call which I hate. I gave him a chance to shape up, and he didn't, so I cut him loose.

I am actively searching for a couple more local sex-only partners and my lover is aware of that, but similarly understands that he cannot see me often enough to meet my needs, either. Believe me, if he was local, I'd be banging him 2-3x a week and not wanting to see anyone else! Although I guess he we wouldn't have as much time together then. Even a once a week overnight might be tough to manage. But anyway, it's irrelevant.

Yes, I am dealing with NRE, but it makes me feel more loving towards my husband as well. It's actually been interesting. My lover makes me so happy, that I am happier and more appreciative of my husband.

Yes, it would bother the hell out of me if we had equal time. I'll be honest. I don't care that she had a relationship with him first, I still want to be first among his girlfriends. I know that isn't what poly is about, but I'm still wired that way.

It's just such an odd situation. We had started off thinking we were going to be a one night stand and we obviously have started a different path. So a lot of the stuff that you guys take for granted, just doesn't make sense to me. I didn't go looking for a relationship, I went looking for sex. And certainly found it! So the parts about determining long term compatibility etc... I don't think like that because if it meant we had to have a shallower relationship to keep having amazing sex, I'd be okay with that. I mean, I'd hurt a lot, but the sex really is that incredible that I'd deal with it. I would much rather have a loving relationship with him, but the sex part is certainly far better than nothing!

I'm just really not sure how to behave around him at times.

[Vicki82]

Well, he's out with his sub this morning... I'm trying not to be bothered by it. I really want to deal with this stuff so I can just relax and enjoy what we have for what it is.

We had a talk the other night and I tried to explain to him that I just like to hear stuff verbally at times. I know that I should just see from his actions that he cares about me and is excited to see me, but I think it's just a lot easier to rationalize things like that away than him telling me that I excite him and he wants to see me, if that makes sense. He pointed out that this past weekend when he came to see me, he was at work from 7am to 9pm and then left to make the 3 hour drive to visit me even though I suggested he come in the morning, so I shouldn't worry that he isn't into me. And he's right, I know. I need to deal with my issues.

I think it's mostly going to be time helping. I know it'll never really be the same as my marriage where I know he'll never leave me, but I just wish it wouldn't be at the forefront of my mind so much. I guess the problem is that I am overthinking what it is, because I really want it to stay like it is- just somehow more like a committed thing than a casual thing. Does that make any sense? And I guess it would be nice if he felt about me the way I feel about him, except that I really don't know what I feel anyway.

I also want to deal with my insecurities because I have the opportunity to make three of his fantasies come true at once, and if I can figure out a way to wrap my head about it, I'd like to give it to him. He has always wanted a FMF, the opportunity to tie two women up at once, and to have two women sucking his cock. I am straight, so we both figured he was going to have to get those things from another partner. But another hotwife lives around the block from me and she and I are getting to know each other, and she's said she would be interested in helping him fulfill those fantasies if I wanted to. But that brings up a host of issues for me.

He actually doesn't expect me to play with the other woman; he says in his fantasy, he satisfies us both. And he's the kind of man I think might actually be able to keep two women satisfied at once. I'm not sure how limited my interaction with the other woman would be, and I guess I'd be willing to experiment a little, but guys do MFM all the time with no other contact so I'd imagine that's workable. My concerns, of course, are that he'd like the other woman better. She is 20 years older than I am, but she has a very slim tight body, and I'm still about 30lbs overweight. Plus, she'd be new and I'd be familiar. She lives so close... what if he decided he'd rather see her instead of me? What if she satisfies him better than I can? I don't know. I don't want my selfishness to keep me from giving him something I know he would love, but I also know if I can't deal with my concerns, it's better not to do it. I did mention to him it might be a possibility and he made it clear that if I am not 100% comfortable he doesn't want to do it.

And I guess I'm just having issues because I think that I've gotten pretty heavily emotionally involved and I don't know if he feels the same way. I would tend to doubt it. I know he cares about me as a person and will always treat me with respect, but I doubt he's worrying about whether he's in love with me :P He did make it clear to me that he doesn't want to replace me because he enjoys spending time with me so much and that we have a lot of fun together, and he likes that we can do normal things as well because we enjoy each other's company. I hate that didn't take away my anxiety.

Thoughts?

[Vicki82]

After some thought, I'm not sure if I really am poly after all. I am wondering if I just got to this place in my life because of this specific man. He feels like everything I would want in a secondary partner, and is no threat to my marriage. Perhaps the right person just came along and I made room for him in my heart. If at some point we end the relationship though, I don't think I am going to go looking for another "real" relationship and will go back to just having casual sex partners, I think.

He and I had a talk about our feelings though, and I am still feeling giddy. We love each other and that is incredibly exciting... except that I have no one I can tell!

Is this board normally slow or is my situation just uninteresting? I have always found that more perspectives are always helpful, whether I agree or not.

[CielDuMatin]

If you are in love with more than one person, and can imagine yourself happy in a relationship with them both at the same time, and want this to be honest and transparent for all involved, then yes, you are poly.

Poly can very easily mean a specific situation with specific people involved.

But why worry about labels? You are who you are, and are facing some of the standard issues that poly brings. If you find discussion useful here, then by all means join in. :)

[nycindie]

After some thought, I'm not sure if I really am poly after all. I am wondering if I just got to this place in my life because of this specific man. He feels like everything I would want in a secondary partner, and is no threat to my marriage.

Sounds delicious. Why the need to question it, then? You don't have to be poly to live poly. You just have to be present and willing to put the necessary work into more than one relationship to be successful.

Perhaps the right person just came along and I made room for him in my heart. If at some point we end the relationship though, I don't think I am going to go looking for another "real" relationship and will go back to just having casual sex partners, I think.It doesn't matter if someday in the future you find yourself perfectly happy and satisfied to live monogamously, or if you eschew more serious commitments altogether; for right now, you have two relationships that work well. So... be here now.

He and I had a talk about our feelings though, and I am still feeling giddy. We love each other and that is incredibly exciting... except that I have no one I can tell!Tell us!! We love it when people come here and gush. The board is full of posts about problems - give us the good stuff! :D

Is this board normally slow or is my situation just uninteresting? I have always found that more perspectives are always helpful, whether I agree or not.Your thread actually seems more in tune with what people write in the Blogs forum. You asked people for their thoughts on things while you unraveled and examined stuff in your mind, rather than posing a situation that needed an urgent, concrete solution. You've been musing and ruminating, and people have added their thoughts. I'm sure more people were reading but perhaps didn't quite know what to add, since it has a bloggy feel. But do keep writing!

[Vicki82]

I don't really want to keep a blog- seems like that would be too labour intensive although sometimes there are words and phrases that I wish I could reread forever.

I posted here because sometimes it's just helpful to have other thoughts on my situation given that this is completely new to me. I figured the people here have experience in poly relationships and would understand how I am feeling.

Do people comment on blogs? What I really need is an outlet- people I can talk to about my life. It's not like I really have anyone I can tell. Right now I am so happy that I want to stand on my roof and shout that I'm in love... and I can't. Well, I can, but they'll all just laugh and ask how I can still be so madly in love with my husband after being together nearly 12 years. And I am madly in love with him... but who else can I tell that I am madly in love with my lover? Pretty much no one. So I don't just want to start a blog just for the sake of writing- it's the interaction that I need.

I am deliriously happy. I have never felt this way in my whole life. I have an extremely rewarding and loving relationship with my husband, where we have reignited the passion we felt in our "honeymoon" period so long ago and combined that with the security and comfort of a marriage. And I have a very exciting, passionate relationship with my lover which combines incredible sex with an intense emotional connection. My cup runneth over.

I'm still having issues dealing with the green eyed monster, but I am trying, I really am. My fear of abandonment has gone way down since he told me how he feels about me. Thinking about him with other women still gives me a twinge (again, except his wife).

Every time I have a twinge, I try to analyze it and figure out why I am feeling that way. Like, he just got back from a week's vacation with his wife, so I am sure he was very turned on and wanting to have sex. It's Sunday, so I know he saw his submissive this morning. I made a list of reasons why I was bothered. One reason I felt jealous was that she got to enjoy that extra passion that comes out when you haven't had sex in a while. But I asked myself, would I rather that he stayed frustrated until we are together? That isn't fair to him and I want him to be happy.

I have to be honest, doing this doesn't entirely take my feelings away. I'm kind of hoping that will happen with time.

[nycindie]

Do people comment on blogs? . . . I don't just want to start a blog just for the sake of writing- it's the interaction that I need.
Yes, we can comment and give feedback on blogs. We're just not allowed to get into debates or arguments (and maybe long tangents?) on them, and the owner of a blog thread can have anyone's post removed from their thread if they don't like what was written. I didn't know how much I'd enjoy blogging til after a while of doing it here.

Every time I have a twinge, I try to analyze it and figure out why I am feeling that way. Like, he just got back from a week's vacation with his wife, so I am sure he was very turned on and wanting to have sex. It's Sunday, so I know he saw his submissive this morning. I made a list of reasons why I was bothered. One reason I felt jealous was that she got to enjoy that extra passion that comes out when you haven't had sex in a while. But I asked myself, would I rather that he stayed frustrated until we are together? That isn't fair to him and I want him to be happy.

I have to be honest, doing this doesn't entirely take my feelings away. I'm kind of hoping that will happen with time.

I do the same thing. I try to break it down and figure out why I am feeling a certain way. No, it doesn't automatically always make the uncomfortable feelings go away (although sometimes they do), but it does help, I find, to understand my thought process and how it prompts emotions in order to diffuse them so they have less power over me. A teacher of mine used to say, "If knowledge is power, then self-knowledge is everything."

[buckeye584]

I am new posting here. I know that you are looking for some "general advice" and possibly solutions to your situation. However, I don't think you fit the definition of polyamory. I am in a threesome relationship right now and it is very much a "hinge" relationship or Vee. Anyway, for you to be in a polyamous it takes alot more open, honest, and loving relationship. You are having more of a swinging lifestyle. I did that for many years and it does leave you feeling very empty inside. Polyamory relationships are one of the hardest and most rewarding relationships you can get involved in. You should never have the feelings that your having. That is why I think your more in a swinging lifestyle than polyamory lifestyle. I am kinda rushing this posts and can give you more example if interested. If I am totally of base let me know too. Good luck in all your decisions. Greg

[Vicki82]

I am new posting here. I know that you are looking for some "general advice" and possibly solutions to your situation. However, I don't think you fit the definition of polyamory. I am in a threesome relationship right now and it is very much a "hinge" relationship or Vee. Anyway, for you to be in a polyamous it takes alot more open, honest, and loving relationship. You are having more of a swinging lifestyle. I did that for many years and it does leave you feeling very empty inside. Polyamory relationships are one of the hardest and most rewarding relationships you can get involved in. You should never have the feelings that your having. That is why I think your more in a swinging lifestyle than polyamory lifestyle. I am kinda rushing this posts and can give you more example if interested. If I am totally of base let me know too. Good luck in all your decisions. Greg

Wow. Thanks for assuming you know so much about me. And your condescension is insulting, frankly.

You are so far off base on all your comments that it's ridiculous.

Edited to add: I felt attacked by your comments and that you are demeaning my relationship with my lover. And I am definitely not a swinger, and if you knew anything about the swinging lifestyle that would be obvious even from my first post. Your comments about me needing to have a more open honest and loving relationship are incredibly rude and insulting.

[CielDuMatin]

Greg,

I don't think you fit the definition of polyamory.This should be good....

I am in a threesome relationship right now and it is very much a "hinge" relationship or Vee. Anyway, for you to be in a polyamous it takes alot more open, honest, and loving relationship.How is what she talked about not open, honest and loving? Both of her partners know what is going on, and bless it, and she says that he is in love with both of them.

You are having more of a swinging lifestyle.I disagree completely. She may have come at this from the swing approach but it has evolved into something that I would definitely call more polyamory than swinging.

I did that for many years and it does leave you feeling very empty inside.It may have left YOU feeling very empty inside, but there are many others who feel quite fulfilled from that lifestyle. Sorry it didn't work out for you.

Polyamory relationships are one of the hardest and most rewarding relationships you can get involved in. You should never have the feelings that your having. That is why I think your more in a swinging lifestyle than polyamory lifestyle.So because she is having some issues, suddenly it's not poly, it's swinging? Yes, poly takes work, and yes it can be full of things that need to be dealt with, including insecurities, jealousy and fears. That doesn't make it "not poly".

Greg, I really suggest you do a little more reading around about the various forms of polyamory and how the polyamorous community tends to accept those who, while still doing poly, do it differently from us. Please do this before handing down your judgments on what is and isn't poly and what is and isn't swinging.

If you'd like to get into more of a discussion on this, I suggest you start a new thread to discuss the forms of poly and their relative merits.

Cheers!

[DarayTala]

First of all, congratulations on having loving and fullfilling relationships with both your lover and you husband. Its great to hear that you and your lover have shared your feelings with eachother, finding out you love someone and that they love you back is one of the best feelings in the world.

Also, it sounds like you are doing a great job dealing with your negative emotions. They may sometimes still linger after you think things through rationally, and sometimes analyzing them will lead you to finding a way to making them go away. I know i've been able to target what makes me jealous and how to handle it through my years of being poly. Despite that, i still often find myself getting jealous at times and having to remind myself of the same things. Sometimes those feelings never really dissipate, but what matters is that by thinking and remaining rational, i can avoid acting negatively because of them. Also i've found that one of the best cures it to be reassured, its a lot harder to be jealous of someone else when you know you are loved and cherished for the wonderful person you are.

Oh, and in response to Greg, I feel like you were very presumptuous and rude. From what i've read and what i feel, polyamory is more then one (or the possibility of more than one) romantic relationship, with the knowledge and consent of all involved. That sounds to me like what has happened here. Just because it started off as sexual and then evolved into love, doesn't make it any less of a poly relationship now. The OP may not choose to identify as a poly person, and may not want to label her relationship as poly, but she certainly could say it fit the definition if she chose to. Also, yes, polyamory works best with open and honest communication, love, and trust. Not every poly relationship has that. The same way monogomous relationships work best with those things as well, but still, that doesn't mean everyone in a mono or poly relationship is perfect with being open and honest about everything all the time. The same way someone could say that you are not truly poly because you are being judgmental and close minded, and to be poly you need to be open minded. They would be wrong in saying that though, clearly you are able to be polyamorous while still being judgmental and rude to the OP, but it doesn't make for a good trait to have certainly. Hopefully we simply misunderstood you though, and you did not mean to come across in the way you did.

[Vicki82]

Deep breaths... L is out with his other girlfriend tonight and I'm having a bad dose of the green eyed monster. I know that it's because we haven't been able to see each other in 5 weeks and I miss him terribly, but I'm hurting tonight.

Any advice for how to cope? I'm still not going to be able to see him until the beginning of September.

[GalaGirl]

What's the jealousy speaking to?

That you don't get to see him til Sept and the other person is seeing them NOW?

Would it be better if you did not know his calendar items?

I haven't really been commenting because it did start to feel like your diary where you work stuff out for yourself.

I know I could comment if something struck me but I thought your questions were in the "asking things out loud to myself" bucket.

Sorry if it seemed slow to respond.

GG

[nycindie]

When I feel jealousy, I ask myself why, but with more detail. As in, "what am I afraid of losing if he loves someone else?" or "why do I think it takes away from my value to him if he enjoys another woman's company?" or "what does being upset buy me?" I try to take a step back and examine my jealousy as if I were a scientist looking at a specimen. So, I usually discover, and have to come to terms with, some insecurity or fear I have.

And then I think about the person I love, and remind myself that when I love someone I want them to be happy and feel free and unencumbered by any neediness of mine. I remind myself that I want him to express who he is fully and not keep him small just because I am feeling insecure. I don't want to load him down with my insecurities, baggage, and tears. I remind myself that I want him to be with me because he wants to be, not because he's obligated to be, and if I give him the space to be himself and enjoy life, he will come back to me. I then say to myself, "Why wouldn't I want him to have as much love go his way, as he can possibly get?"

This process of questioning, and then reminding myself of the best ways I know to love him, usually puts me in a good state of compersion. And then, sometimes, it just helps to put on some upbeat music and dance in my underwear, or go do the dishes.

[Vicki82]

I think that's most of it. I miss him very badly. We have not seen each other in person since we said our I love yous and I am craving some physical intimacy from him. We have talked about our feelings and he tells me he misses me too. It's just unfortunate that it's impossible for us to see each other any sooner.

I am glad that he's out and having a good time. I hope she makes him happy. But I am aching because I wish it was me.

I don't think it would be better not to know, because I worry about him and I want his sexual needs to be taken care of. It's just a double edged sword, because I feel glad for him and frustrated for me. Then I get mad at myself for feeling frustrated and it kind of snowballs into a mass of negativity and I hate that.

I've been feeling better about my insecurity issues, knowing how he feels about me. I feel okay that I am in touch with my feelings at least, but I wish I could manage them better. It doesn't help that I am feeling pretty lonely tonight. H has been out of town for 2 weeks so I've been a single mom lately, and I'm pretty tired and run down.

[nycindie]

. . . I've been a single mom lately, and I'm pretty tired and run down.

Time for a candle lit bubblebath!

[GalaGirl]

Hrm. Maybe note this for future? Like if you know both are going to be out of town or away -- get another friend to come in to watch a movie? Or get out to be among other people?

Take you out of yourself.

GG

[Vicki82]

Hrm. Maybe note this for future? Like if you know both are going to be out of town or away -- get another friend to come in to watch a movie? Or get out to be among other people?

Take you out of yourself.

GG

Unfortunately, that isn't something that can be done. I'm a SAHM, so I can't go anywhere in the evenings, and most of my friends live out of town. I am not the most social person in the world, so I don't have a lot of friends in my area. I spend a lot of time alone.

Most of the time it doesn't bother me, but at times it does. My lover lives out of town anyway, which is why he can see her but not me right now. H travels a lot for work so I usually try to line up a casual hookup with a FWB during the day when my kids are at school but I wasn't able to do that this time, either.

Guess it's been a pretty crappy couple of weeks this time. Or rather, it would have been if I hadn't had so many intense, emotionally fulfilling conversations with my lover. I was staying up far too late talking with him and it was totally worth it :)

[Vicki82]

It's starting to weigh on me that I've been lonely this time H was away. Sometimes, things suck. It's now been 6 weeks since I've seen my lover, and 3 since I've seen my husband. Who will be home this weekend for two days and then off again for another week and a half. In the meantime, I'm a single mom but I also got called into work this week so I am not really getting any downtime. It's getting wearing.

It's been tougher than usual too, since L is also travelling for work and he's in a time zone that makes it difficult for us to spend much time together online at least. We communicate a lot, which is probably why our relationship deepened so quickly. It's normal for us to trade texts and emails all day, and then chat for a few hours at night unless one of us has plans. Given the time change, we're only talking maybe ten minutes a day. We haven't gone one day since we met without talking, so this has been tough for me. He tells me he misses me, and I miss him terribly.

Normally I see at least one of my casual sex flings when H is out of town, but I'd dumped one of them recently and the other was unavailable, so I haven't gotten any physical release, either. That usually helps a lot when I can't see my guys.

I can't wait for the summer to be over. I want to make love with H... I want to make love with L.

Come to think of it, I wonder what is going to be different in sex with L now. He tells me he has loved me for a while now, and I think I did too only I didn't know it was; I thought it was NRE until I finally couldn't keep telling myself that anymore. We were both keeping our feelings restrained so as not to scare each other away. I wonder what things will be like the first time we see each other, especially since it will have been 8 weeks...

I miss them both so much. I want to be held, kissed, loved.

[Vicki82]

I'm full of conflicting emotions. I'm really not used to this!

H came home for the weekend and things are absolutely perfect between us. I don't think we've ever been this deeply in love and appreciative of each other. We had some amazing connected sex as well that was very intense. Even though he is leaving again this afternoon, I feel good.

On the other hand, I am just feeling so low about L. We've had much less communication than usual since he was on a work trip, and he's only home for a few days before he is leaving to go on a hiking trip where he will be virtually unreachable for a week because of no cell signal. Between that and still having no firm date on the calendar when we will see each other again, I am hurting.

The little devil on my shoulder starts telling me things that I know aren't true, like that he obviously doesn't care about me or that I am just not important to him. I know I am; he makes it very clear by the things that he does and says, that I matter, and that he loves me. But when I'm feeling sad, it's really hard to brush those negative thoughts away.

I am hurting. We're heading into the 7th week without seeing each other and I had thought it would be early September but now it's looking like it will be mid to late September. I know it's only a couple more weeks but at this point it just feels crushing.

I'm wondering if I am really cut out for a LDR. I always swore I'd never do it, actually, but that's because I knew I could not handle a monogamous LDR. I need physical contact. I didn't go looking at him for a partner... this was just supposed to be sex, until we fell in love. The amount of communication we have is so intense that it really helps me feel connected with him, but it's been getting harder and harder as the weeks slip by especially since this week and next week are comparatively low communication.

I can feel myself emotionally pulling back right now, because I'm sad and hurting. It is very painful for me to have expressed my love for a man and it's been weeks and we still can't be in each other's arms. Love is not a word I use casually; I've said it to three men in my whole life, and once was when I was a teenager :P

He knows I miss him badly, but I don't really want to tell him how much I am hurting because I know there really is nothing he can do about it. It's not like he is choosing not to see me- for various reasons, he really can't. So all I would be doing is making him feel bad, too.

I am reading the LDR tags but I could use some thoughts and advice if anyone has any to share. Oh, and to whomever left the two star rating on my thread: gee, thanks. Exactly the kind of feedback I needed to hear :P

[Vicki82]

LD sucks.

So I said f*** it all. I'm at the airport ready to get on a plane to see my lover for 14 freaking hours overnight at a layover point for him.

Call me crazy, but I'm in love, and I miss him.

Good thoughts, please.

[Vicki82]

Who do I ask to move this to the blog section? I guess it is more suitable for there. I don't have to see it as an obligation... Guess that's more in my head. But maybe we can change the title to Vicki's Journey.

I am really glad that I went to see my lover. We wound up being together for two days, one at the beginning of his trip and one at the end (I had friends in the layover city and just stayed there).

The first day we mostly talked about some of the tough questions. Unfortunately our relationship is evolving and we have less control over it than either of us like. When we first met, his work took him to my city at least once a month for an overnight, but now that doesn't happen anymore. He also got promoted, so he's been insanely busy with work stuff, and their social life has been busier than ever on weekends. And the biggest issue is that his wife has a serious health issue and she is going for a checkup in a couple of weeks. Obviously if her check doesn't go well, he is going to need to spend more time at home. We've already been seeing each other less because the summer was so busy, so it's tough to think that we're going to get even less F2F time.

I know that I struggle with LD. I always swore I wouldn't do it. Physical touch is my strongest love language, and being apart from him for a long time makes my heart ache. Our communication has always been intense, since we talk every single day for hours, and that has helped our relationship deepen, but the lack of physical contact hurts me. I was really struggling over the 7 weeks between our last get together and wondering if I could even sustain the feelings or would I start to draw back emotionally because of the pain.

So now I find myself in this situation. L was supposed to be a one night stand... but we knew before we met it wasn't going to work out like that because we both wanted more. And we thought we'd get at least once a month via his work plus the occasional weekend when we realized we had feelings for each other. Now that may not be possible. And as a result of his wife's health issues, he doesn't have any idea when he'll be able to see me again. We really can't make any plans at all. It breaks my heart, and I'm in the exact situation I always swore I'd never been in. Although at least I have H, so I am not just pining away alone. I am sure I wouldn't be able to handle that.

So we saw each other last week for an overnight in a hotel, and we had sex but did a lot of talking. I didn't really feel like I resolved anything in my head because I still had a lot of the uncertainty, but at least we cleared the air and I let him know what I was thinking. I told him that I wanted a real relationship with him, that I want him to see all of me and not for me to hide whatever I think the bad parts are away. And I told him that I knew LD would be hard for me and asked for some things that I knew would help. In addition to all the other stuff he has going on, they've started a pretty big home renovation project so I know his talk time with me is going to go down quite a bit too, and I've been struggling with that.

I didn't really feel like it was much of a resolution after that, and for the days in between I was wondering if I'd been right to come. But fortunately I was able to stay long enough to see him on the way back, and it made a lot of difference to me.

We had only 12 hours together again, but it was one of the most wonderful nights of my life. I think that in my heart, I never truly believed that he loves me. I know I have issues with self esteem and perhaps I view myself as fundamentally unlovable, which is ridiculous since I have a happy loving marriage with my husband. But there it is.

But Monday night... the emotions in the room were palpable. We made passionate love and it was one of the best nights of my life. We cuddled afterwards and when he held me in his arms I just felt so content and happy. It was just perfect, every minute. And in the morning, we didn't have sex but just did a lot of cuddling and touching.

At the airport, we were both heading to different destinations but my flight left later so I sat with him at his gate until his flight was called. We couldn't really touch there even casually because we were in his hometown and didn't want to run into anyone who knew him (he's not "out"). When his flight was ready to board, we did hug and kiss goodbye before he left. He sent me a text from the plane apologizing for leaving so quickly but he didn't want to cry. I felt the same way. It hurts not to know when we'll be together again.

But how can I walk away from this? I know it's going to be hard, and that it's going to hurt. But he is really important to me, and I love him so much. Every time we're together, it's like all the sadness from the time in between just melts away. I smile when I'm talking to him and I'm happy just being with him. I can't let him go just because it's going to be tough sometimes.

It hurts that we won't be able to see each other often enough to do the kinds of fun things couples do. I would like to just hang out with him and do some platonic activities too, and spend time being friends (other than online). But that just isn't going to happen if we only get a weekend together every month or two; I'm sure we're going to go straight to bed and not get out. So I've been mourning that loss because I know it's not something he can give me in his current life situation.

And my deepest fear is that his wife is going to get a very negative report at her check up. I want him to be happy and to have a good relationship with his wife. I know having a sick spouse can take a big toll on your life. And of course I know his priorities would shift and I don't begrudge him that. If the roles were reversed I would expect him to understand that my family needed me. But the thought of losing him for "external" reasons breaks my heart. It's possible that he might have to end things and that is really scary to me.

For now, I'm just trying to take things one day at a time and enjoy what we have. He promised that he is still going to make time for me even when he's busy, because he wants to. I am not an obligation but a desire. And he really made me believe it that night. It really was a wonderful night and I just have to hold it in my heart until we are together again.

[GalaGirl]

Post to a mod here?

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/forumdisplay.php?f=23

To get it moved to blog area?

GG

[Vicki82]

I am feeling very lonely and fragile tonight. I don't know how to deal with my sadness.

It's really hard being involved with someone who is already married, even if I am married myself. I know my lover has so much going on in his life right now but it is still difficult to deal with. We used to talk very day for hours... now it's maybe an hour a day of emailing back and forth casually, and he is usually multitasking to boot. No chance of Skype or telephone calls right now. It hurts, and I really don't know how to deal with it.

Right now, my lover has worries about his wife's health, on top of a recent promotion at work that has significant additional responsibilities and required time, plus an extensive home renovation project that he is mostly doing alone. And his other girlfriend is very needy and demanding of his time, so there isn't much left for me. He warned me that this month would be tough, but I didn't realize it was going to be as hard on me as it has been.

I feel like I am only getting the scraps, and really, I am. But how can I ask for more when I know he really doesn't have any more to give right now? He has no free time for himself at all and I know the pressures are really getting to him. The last thing I want is to be more of a burden on him. I have been trying so hard to be supportive of him but I am lonely and it hurts so much. The long distance things is also making it tough because we see each other in person so rarely and it's much easier for him to find an hour or two to see his local girlfriend and have no time to see me since I am three hours away. I feel like we need that intimate connection of at least talking since we can't see each other and I'm not getting what I need.

I know he loves me, and intellectually I know the answer is probably that I just have to tough through the rest of this month and then see how things go, but emotionally it is really hurting me. And we have promised total honesty with each other but I feel like telling him how I feel about all this would only hurt him and to no good purpose since he can't change anything.

I don't know what I am going to do if nothing changes in October. Some things will be done, but if his wife's health deteriorates obviously things will be different, as they should be. But where will that leave my relationship with him? I love him so much, but I'm hurting. Useful comments and advice are always appreciated.

[opalescent]

Perhaps if you just tell him that this is hard, you are hurting, you didn't realize that his lack of attention for you right now would wound you this much BUT make it clear you do not expect him to fix it. The situation is what is and he can't do anything about it. He can't make it better right now.

I find when I am in situations similar to yours - I hurt but it's no one's fault and can't be fixed or resolved right now (or maybe ever) - it helps to have that hurt acknowledged by the other person involved. Also don't dwell on the hurt with him - since he can't do anything about it except acknowledge it - that would be cruel for both of you.

Hold on. It won't be forever.

[Vicki82]

Thanks for your advice. I did send him an email yesterday and tried to emphasize that I just wanted to be listened to and that I understood that things needed to be the way they are.

I felt a little better after sending it, but when I got his reply I felt really awful and ashamed of myself. I've been really selfish and as a result I burdened someone I love at a time when I should be supporting him instead. He sent me a really detailed email where he told me how much he loves me and misses me, but that he hardly has time now to eat and sleep, let alone anything else. He really explained to me what is going on with his wife, and I know I'd be a complete wreck in his situation and unable to function. He's managing to juggle his worries about her along with significantly increased work responsibilities plus a major home renovation. I shouldn't have been surprised that he has little time for me right now. And he did warn me it was going to be bad. I just didn't realize it would hurt this much anyway.

I don't know if it makes me a bad person or if it makes me human, that I _knew_ all this stuff before and still I was concerned about my own feelings. I don't think I had as vivid a picture as I do now though. I really just want to cry because I'm sure I hurt him and it does make me a bad person to add to his worries at a time like this.

I am so scared about tomorrow that I want to just hide in my room, and again, my feelings are partly selfish which again brings on that great wash of guilt. At least part of me is altruistic; I want his wife to be healthy because I want him to be happy. I didn't realize that if tomorrow goes poorly, she might have to have open heart surgery and that is terrifying. He is deeply in love with her and I don't know how he can even get through the day with that hanging over their heads. Her risk of complications is also much higher than a normal heart patient since she has a very rare and serious condition. She might die.

He has told me that if they get bad news tomorrow, our relationship will have to go on the back burner, and of course that's what I would want him to do. Family has to come first. I know that on a personal level it will be emotionally devastating for me, but I can only imagine how she is going to feel and she will need his complete focus and support.

I really just need a good cry right now. Unfortunately H is out of town for work again and I've got my three year old to look after, so Mommy's needs are coming last. Sometimes, that's just how it needs to be. But I could really use some hugs right now.

[Vicki82]

Lots of conflicting emotions the past few days. The bottom line is that his wife got wonderful news and her condition has stabilized. So, that axe didn't fall. I am so glad that she is okay and that he doesn't have that huge worry. I don't even know how I would function if I was worried like that about H.

And of course, selfishly, I am glad that our relationship doesn't have to go on the back burner. I would have understood if it had to, but it would have been emotionally devastating.

L is such a wonderful man. I am not sure how I could possibly have gotten so lucky. He made sure to talk to me Monday night and see how I was doing even though I know he had lots of important things to do.

Last night, I think all the accumulated tension got to me and I just had an emotional meltdown, though. H is out of town and I am craving physical touch, which I am not going to get. I'm the sole caretaker for our toddler and he's been sick, and neither of us is getting much sleep. Add that to some PMS mood swings and the drop from being so overwrought the past couple of days and I guess I should have seen it coming. I was just shaking and couldn't deal with things. Thank goodness for technology because I reached out to both H and L and they both gave me reassurance and told me they love me. I really needed it.

When I can't have physical contact, sometimes a really long hot shower helps. I came out when I turned into a prune and couldn't stand the heat anymore and put on my favourite comfy pajamas, and curled up on the couch to watch chick flicks with a bowl of fruit cocktail (great substitute for ice cream, actually). The distraction helped... and by the time the movie was over, the negative feelings had vanished and were just replaced by contentment and happiness, and overwhelming love for both the men in my life. I wrote them each an email telling them how much I love and appreciate them.

I feel like I've been riding a roller coaster lately. I know I still won't get much of L's time for the next few weeks while he wraps up the home renovations, and that he still is overloaded with work responsibilities as he learns how to handle his new position and needs to hire another guy. But I know this too shall pass. We can't see each other anywhere near as often as I would like, but just having him in my life at all makes me feel privileged.

Not to mention how having H in my life makes me feel. How many husbands would be supportive of their wives being a basket case over fear of losing their lovers? How many husbands sit at home and take care of the kids so that their wives can go spend the weekend with a lover? I know many here do, but it's certainly not a commonplace event in the "regular" world! My husband even agreed to pick up a Christmas gift I ordered for my lover- I stumbled across the perfect thing online but they don't ship to Canada, so on his next business trip he is going to get it for me. And keep in mind, my husband is NOT poly; he doesn't even have casual sex. He is truly mono at heart and wants no one but me.

Which leads me into what I wrote him last night. I was in tears when I wrote it out for him. Maybe my soul really is polyamorous and I just didn't know it. I feel like all my life I have been denying who I am and what I need, because it's just not socially acceptable to have intimate connections with opposite sex people you aren't married to (if you're married). I've always been the kind of person who craved and needs at least emotionally intimate connections, even if they don't cross the line into physical connections. And all of my closest friends are men.

H has been telling me for months that he feels like our marriage has gotten so much stronger since I started seeing other men. He tells me that I always used to seem so unhappy at heart, and now he can tell that I am really, truly happy on the inside. And because I am happy, I am a better wife. I am more relaxed and accepting, I give more freely, and I have the energy to support him in his needs. We've fallen in love again so deeply, after 8 years of marriage and nearly 12 years together. I told him that our marriage has all the passion, excitement, and desire of a new relationship combined with the comfort, security, and enduring love of a marriage. How can it get any better than that?

I just feel so validated and accepted for who I am. I really needed this, and I am so lucky that I found a man who is able to accept that and allow me to grow the way I need to be happy.

All I know is that it feels like a miracle that I have not one but two men who love me and care about me deeply. I don't know how I could have gotten so lucky. It feels like my heart will overflow.

I didn't go looking for this type of relationship with L... but I'm glad I found it. I used to think I knew where I was going in life, and now I can say I really have no idea. But I just want to smile and enjoy the ride and see where it goes.

[Vicki82]

*sigh* Again, the realities of life come into play. L's wife was going to be out for the night on Tuesday, so he asked me if I would like to Skype in the evening after I put my son to bed. Would I??? Um, yeah. We haven't been able to do a real Skype call in ages because of the way their marriage works. I know that people here don't like DADT, but that's what his wife prefers since she doesn't see other partners. She is fine with him having other women in his life because she is asexual, but two important rules are that she doesn't want to know about it and it can't impinge on their life. So basically, whenever she's home, we can't Skype- or if we do, he wears headphones and types instead of talks. Not quite as satisfying. (Actually, it's been bothering me a lot more lately. I'm in love, I want to shout it from the rooftops and really have him as part of my life. I want him to meet my husband not just for the MFM that we all want, but because they are both important in my life so I think they should know each other. And I wish I could meet his wife, if only so that I could just clear the air with her. But that isn't what she wants and I can understand that. I just wish that we could have a more "normal" relationship where I don't feel like a secret.)

I got ridiculously excited since we haven't had Skype in months, and today he told me he just found out they scheduled him for a work phone conference at 7:30 that night- right when I would have been getting ready to see him :( He says he'd like to try for after ten when the call ends but I guess we'll see. Poor guy hasn't been getting a lot of sleep lately and I don't want to make it harder for him.

It's just tough because I was so looking forward to it. We still talk, but I haven't had a block of time just for me in ages with him. And I know he really can't do anything about that right now and I just have to keep swimming... but it SUCKS. I'm sure he isn't happy about it either but it is what it is.

[Vicki82]

I can see why most people here don't like DADT. I've actually been thinking about it a lot lately and it's bothering me a lot more than I thought it would. My husband understands it completely- given the way our marriage has evolved, early on his tolerance for communicating about my extramarital activities was quite limited. I had his wholehearted acceptance to do what I wanted, but he just didn't want to hear about it or even really know about it. He generally preferred that I see other men when he was away on business trips (he's gone about 4-5 months a year in blocks of 1-2 weeks at a time).

As we've seen the positive effects on our relationship from opening our marriage, he has relaxed more and his tolerance has grown. He still has his limits and of course I do my best to respect them. I'm sure I haven't always done that great a job, since falling in love was not something that we planned on and that definitely stretched a painful boundary for him, but I really do try. He just needs time sometimes to get used to the idea. He has been much more tolerant than I would have been in his place!

But it hurts me that I can't be more open about my relationship with L. Not like I'd put it on Facebook or anything, but I wish that we could Skype more often, or even just talk on the phone. We can't even use IM some nights because that's too "obvious" if she walks by, that he is talking to another woman. So our usual modus operandi is back and forth emailing. It's a lot harder to have a conversation that way even if response time is fast!

But his wife isn't comfortable with anything that reminds her that he has other women in his life, so we can't do any of that unless she's in bed or not at home. My husband tells me he can fully understand her reticence because it bothered him, too, but his issue was that even though our computers face each other so he can't see what I'm doing, he could always tell from the expression on my face when I was talking to my lover. I'm a very expressive person and I nearly always have a smile on my face when I hear from L.

I just wish it was as easy for him as it was for me. H is out of town, but when he called I asked him if he would mind if I Skyped with L on Tuesday. He said of course it's okay, why was I even asking? L can't do that.

L is such an important part of my life now that I hate it has to stay under wraps. I have very few people who I can tell about him. How could I? H works in a very public profession, and the gossip would have a damaging effect on our livelihood. And I hate being a secret in his life, too. I wish I could meet his wife, even if not to be friends, but just to say hello and spend some time with the most important person in his life. And I want H to meet L, for the same reasons.

I just keep reminding myself that if this is my biggest concern, than I have it pretty good! I still have L in my life, and I wasn't sure that was going to be the case. I have a wonderful marriage with H. And I have a great kid. How can I be unhappy? And I'm really not- just greedy at times :)

I read back over my thread today, and I saw how my feelings have evolved even just since I've been writing here, which isn't really all that long a time. I feel more secure about L's feelings for me and I don't really worry about him leaving me for someone else. I still worry that his life might just be too busy for us to get much face time, but we'll see how that goes with time.

L has stopped seeing his third girlfriend, although their relationship was much more casual. So now he only sees me, his sub, and of course his wife. He still doesn't have the time he used to, but I feel like he is really trying to give me what I need. H and I are very verbally expressive with each other, so I'm used to sharing my feelings and not keeping things bottled up. I'm also used to hearing them and I think one of the things contributing to my insecurity was just that he and I had different styles of showing feelings. Now he tells me that he loves me and misses me, and even though it's not the same as being in his arms, just hearing him tell me that he wants to be with me can ease some of the sting. And I know I should know it- but it's not the same as hearing it.

I hope I can see him again soon. I'm hoping for early October, but I guess we'll see how it goes.

[Vicki82]

I'm still feeling so lonely lately. I know that we got over the major hurdle about his wife's health, but there is still so much going on in his life right now and it's hard for me to handle. Work is still killing him, and it will until he gets used to his new position and hires another guy to take some of the load off. No ETA there.

And then there's the renovations, which aren't expected to be complete until mid November. Between those things, we're not talking nearly as much as we were and it sounds like it won't be possible for us to see each other until the renos are done. He's working long days at work, then coming home and he doesn't stop until maybe ten at night, and he needs to get some sleep before he starts it all over again. He really doesn't have time for me right now even if I took the train to see him.

It just hurts. That will be nine more weeks. I don't know how I can go twelve weeks without seeing him. I hate LD, but recognize that isn't entirely the problem here; he's just going through a really busy time in his life. He has asked me to be patient and I really want to be understanding, but it's just so hard. When it starts to feel overwhelming, I get a little bit of why do I have to feel this way about him cropping up because I don't want to hurt.

I just feel so frustrated. There's really nothing I can do about it and it makes me feel unhappy. And I get mad at myself because I know he misses me and wants to see me too and he really can't, so all I am doing is making it worse for him too. I kick myself when I'm being too self centred and remind myself that he's the one subsisting on 5 hours of sleep a night and working around the clock, so I know he isn't happy now either and is waiting for this to end. But I fucking hate it.

[Vicki82]

I was spending some time thinking about jealousy today. I've kind of reached a place in my mind where I think I have more understanding about what I feel and why.

The specific issue on my mind was MFM. Both I and his other girlfriend really wanted to do it, me with my H, and her with her fiance. Her fiance lives out of town and came to visit this week, and I am guessing they probably had one. I haven't asked, though, although I probably should since it's been on my mind so much.

I'm a little crushed by the idea that he did it with her first. He had never had one either and I really wanted us to do it together. I keep repeating to myself that what he has with her doesn't take anything away from me. What he and I have is still special no matter what he does with her. Sex with my husband does not make me want sex with L any less.

So I did some more thinking on why I am still feeling jealous, and coming to the realization it's because I'm not getting my needs met. When I am not seeing L and she is, it hurts and I get frustrated and unhappy. And it's not that I don't want him to see her, because I want him to have his sexual needs met and it's not like he and I are seeing each other often enough for that. But it really upsets me that she can see him and I can't. Distance sucks ass. He can stop by her place and visit for an hour or two and he just can't do that with me. So I haven't seen him in four weeks and she sees him at least once a week. It's just not fair :( And yes, I'm whining like a little kid because I know it is what it is and it's not like he doesn't want to see me. But I miss him like crazy and it really hurts that I can't see him.

I have about 9 weeks to look forward to where he's still very busy and has little time for daily communication and not much chance of seeing him. He tells me that he needs me, and that he is going to try to swing a weekend before then but it may not be possible. It breaks my heart to think of going so long without being with him. I miss him so much.

Why does love have to be so hard? He told me he believes that we were meant to meet and be together. I wish that meant we didn't have to be apart so much.

Comments are always welcome. It helps to have other perspectives when I'm thinking about stuff, especially since being in multiple love relationships is still so novel to me.

[Vicki82]

Today I need some perspective, please. My husband thinks I am overreacting and I am pretty sure I am, but I'm still feeling very messed up.

It probably needs more background info. L has a blog where he writes about the kinky parts of his life, and his submissive reads it. He added me to read it too, several months ago. His submissive doesn't know that he is seeing me. I'm not wild about that, but he says it would just be too much drama.

So last night, he asked me if I had read his blog lately, and I said no. I thought he had let it go dormant since he hadn't written since July. It took me a while to remember my password but when I went there were several new entries. The first couple of ones were his usual sort of updates, and then I hit a couple that hurt like hell.

The next one posted was entitled "exclusivity" and it was basically saying that he found what he was looking for with her and that he was not playing with anyone else in the kink community. I obviously reacted very strongly to that one which is where he says he was careful wording that one to say kink community, and that I'm outside that. It HURT so much, though. I know that because of his relationship with his wife, that at least for now and maybe never, that I can't have the type of completely open poly relationship that you all have. But to be pretty much publicly disavowed? I was physically shaking and sweating and my heart was racing when I read that entry. It took hours for my body to calm down. It frustrates me that he can publicly acknowledge his sub on Fetlife but he can't acknowledge me ever. Or rather, that there is really no point since I don't have much of a profile and why cause so much drama to change nothing? Logically, I can see that. But hearts aren't always logical.

And of course, there's the fallout from reading that. I know he loves her, and he is certainly lying to her by omission. He says he is just "controlling the flow of information" to her, but I would be very upset if he was doing that to me. I asked, and he said he is not, but I feel like our trust is damaged. I don't care what he tells her, frankly; that's part of his relationship with her and it's none of my business. But I worry that if he lies to her to make his life easier, that he'd lie to me. I know he loves me but he says he loves her too, so what's the difference? I always felt so trusting and comfortable with him, and I honestly don't believe he has lied to me. But I feel at least a bit emotionally withdrawn right now.

Those are really the key things that are bothering me. The other stuff is minor and it's on me to deal with, not him. One entry was about his experiences with anal with her and how much he loves anal, and that hurt because we've been trying to work up to it together. So that post made me jealous. And the last one was about his reflections on it being six months since he collared her as his sub, and it's been six months since we got together so that one hit a sour note with me as well. By then I was pretty much overwhelmed with conflicting emotions so I didn't really read much.

He stayed up late with me last night trying to help me calm down and to explain why he wrote what he did. I know that the blog is read by her and so by the necessity of his choices, he has to censor what he writes. But I can't imagine he didn't think that one post wasn't going to cause me a great deal of pain. I know he has no one else that he can sound off to about his "other life" and most of the time I'm happy to be there for him. I'm even okay hearing about his sub a lot of the time because I am glad he is happy. But basically seeing him completely deny our relationship? Fuck.

I didn't sleep well last night and I feel like a mess today. I sent him an email in the middle of the night basically saying these things, but I reread our chat and I pretty much raised the same issues so I am sure he is going to feel frustrated. I don't blame him. I'm sure he was just being obtuse and not deliberately trying to hurt me, but I feel awful. Any words of wisdom?

[Vicki82]

Last night L and I talked on the phone and sorted a few things out but I guess I still don't really feel that the air is cleared, so to speak. I still feel like I am not sure about some of the things we were talking about and despite feeling better about getting to actually talk to him and have some vocal context, I am wondering what words he'd have used to respond in an email. My bad I guess.

And I don't even know how the conversation ended up spiralling off to where he said that if I feel the need to pull back emotionally he will support me in just being friends because he doesn't want to lose my friendship. He said that multiple times and I'm sure he was trying to be kind but instead it just hurt. I sent him that email in the first place because I didn't want to lose our connection and dial back to just friends; I wanted to sort through it. So I don't even know how we got to that place. I told him that's not what I want, and he told me that's not what he wants either, but it was hard to listen to anyway.

I'm still feeling so confused and unhappy today. My thoughts are kind of all piling on top of each other. He said he was confused by my intention in my email where I said that I was envious of all you here on the poly forum having such open relationships and he took the word poly to mean something very serious, like the kind of people who live together. I told him that's not what I meant at all. I'm not looking for that kind of relationship, certainly. I just meant that I came here because I'm in love with two men and sometimes I need help sorting through my thoughts because I don't know how to do this. I'm sure there are lots of times I do or say the wrong thing unintentionally to H or L just because I don't know any better.

I do have to talk to H at some point, though. I know he's just trying to be helpful but he is unintentionally fuelling my insecurities in a big way. He knows it's been a while since I saw L, and he asked me if I thought L was just phasing me out. I said no, but it put that idea in the back of my mind again. He's said a couple of other things too, and certainly last night he told me that if I am expecting emotional energy from L when he's this busy that I am going to push him away. He's probably even right, because I wouldn't have any in L's situation. But I just feel so alone right now and a little overwhelmed with my emotions. I know H is not trying to hurt me and he doesn't want me to break up with L because he knows I value that relationship so much. He just doesn't know any better either I think.

I really feel like I have nowhere but here to pour out my insecurities. I can't tell L, because that's being needy when he has nothing to give me. I can't talk to H, because he is okay with listening to everything except my emotional issues with L. So who do I tell when I am worried that in nine weeks, L will have moved on emotionally? After all, he has his sub, who he can still see through this busy time. They have a relationship, so what does he need me for especially when his recent memories of me are going to be coloured by issues I've been having with the distance? I don't know how to handle things. He's a very logical guy who is good at compartmentalizing, so I'm sure it's frustrating him that I am having trouble dealing with an issue that he thought was shelved.

I just don't know how I'll maintain my connection with him if I try to back off and be patient the way he needs me to be right now. I don't really know even what he wants. Does that mean I don't text him or email him because that is needy? Because today I am, in a big way, so I was thinking it's maybe better not to.

And I guess at the heart of it all, I feel uncertain about my security with him again. What does it mean to say that you love people but you're only in love with one? I really don't understand his distinction but I know it's important to him. Sometimes I don't ask things because I don't want to risk knowing the answer. Do I ever want to live with him? No. I'm not interested in anything that society would consider more serious that what we have now. But are my feelings for him just the same kind of love that I feel for H, except shallower because of time/experience? Yes. So there isn't really a distinction there for me. H clearly recognized from the way I've been behaving lately that I am in love with L.

I guess we'll have to see how things go. I know I am seriously overthinking things and I'm not even close to being rational yet, which is why this post is probably on the disjointed side. I have no idea where I'm going right now.

Last night, H just held me. I really needed it.

[GalaGirl]

I am sorry you continue to hurt. I came to read your thread to see what else might be going on for you.

It is good you try to sort out your jealous and realize it stems from needs not being met.

L does not meet your needs right now. WILL HE START MEETING THEM OR NOT?

Last night, H just held me. I really needed it.

I am glad. At least H does the correct ACTIONS to you to show loving behavior from him to you!

Even if his words come out dumb and fuel your anxiety because he's a poly newbie? Or he's not ready to deal with learning to hear words from you about your inner emotional life with other loves? His LOVING ACTIONS TOWARD YOU speak louder than his words here. Could reflect on that.

Again -- ignore L's words. List his ACTIONS. Bottom line -- does he demonstrate loving talk AND loving behavior toward you? Or just all talk and no loving actions? Does he meet your needs or not?

Use objective rulers and tools if YOU cannot see clear right now because of emotional flooding. Take him to paper. Take your time. But do it.

Check jealousy page

http://www.practicalpolyamory.com/images/Jealousy_Updated_10-6-10.pdf

Do you do all the things of page 5?

AND

Does L do all the things of page 6?

It takes two to hold up the relationship, not all on you. If he is not doing all of 6? That's telling you again -- by his actions, exactly how much he is invested in keeping your relationship with him alive and healthy.

Does he do any of these things on this other PDF? Then uncomfortable thought or not, you have to accept he DOES do these things. And these thing are called abuse.

http://speakoutloud.net/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/Tactics-Murphy-2010.pdf

Talk is just talk. How's he walking his walk? Does he demonstrate loving behavior toward you or not in helping you when you are down?

Sometimes I don't ask things because I don't want to risk knowing the answer.

Well, hon, if you can accept you cannot see clear but want your suffering to end? You have to do something different than you normally do. Because do what you always have done? Get what you always have gotten.

Your secondary relationship should not make you afraid to print out pages and use a highlighter. It's only paper. What do you have to fear from paper?

Here is an idea:

Tell H - straight up. "I know you don't like to hear about my inner life with L and all the emotions. I am trying to decide if this is worth it any more or not.

Will you please support me even though it makes you feel yucky? I will not talk about emotions. Here is what I want/need from you. Listen to me all the way across and please do not shut down or shut me out. You mission if you choose to accept it -- Be Mr Watch Me Print Pages and Mr Hand Holder.


Will you please watch me print these pages? You don't even have to look at them. I just to actually do them and not chicken out because I am afraid of what I might find.

Will you just let me hold your hand while I highlight the things I need to highlight? You still do not have to look at the pages.

And will you tell me YOU love me? And tell me you will support my decision -- whatever it is I decide?


That is what I want you to do for me. Would you be willing to do that much? Do you accept the mission? "

Then print those two links and get the yellow highlighter. Go! From the gut! No second thoughts or second guessing yourself. See what your GUT tells you even if your brain is struggling. If not sure, just put a questions mark beside it and go, go, go til the end of the page.

GL!
Galagirl

[Vicki82]

He really doesn't treat me badly. I feel like I must be articulating myself poorly if that's the impression everyone is getting. When he has time for me, I feel so loved and valued and cared for, because he does show it to me. It's just that right now, he can't.

Here are the things I do not like about my relationship with L:


I don't like that his other girlfriend doesn't know about me; in her situation, I would be pretty crushed if I thought I was the only one and wasn't, especially since I'm not a casual fling to him.
I am uncomfortable that he is willing to "control" this kind of information, especially since he and I are fluid bonded and that requires a lot of trust from me.
I don't like that she gets the validation of being something "official" to him while I cannot have the same thing. It makes me feel like my needs are less important than hers.
I do not like that I rarely get to talk to him on the phone or Skype, or even use IM chat.
I do not like that I see him so rarely, even if I understand that LD sucks.
I do not like that for the next nine weeks, I will not get to see him or talk to him as much as I need to be happy. I don't like that he is under so much stress that I cannot talk to him about my emotional needs.
I do not like that the other women in his life are getting their needs met while I get the leftovers. It makes me feel unimportant.


Of those things, some are still in his control despite his overwhelming workload right now. I feel uncomfortable asking for those things because I don't want to add to his stress level, but perhaps in the context that they will help me get through nine weeks of less contact, they will be worth it. But really, there has to be something in here about appropriate timing. It's good to articulate needs, but there has to be a time and a place. When I am sick and under pressure from all sides, I would have very little emotional energy to give. I can understand completely that he has little to no energy for me right now, even if it sucks.

I am not really prepared to have the conversation about his sub. I still feel like it's not really any of my business how he conducts his other relationship. I worry that he will lie to me, but honestly, if you don't have trust in someone you don't believe anything they say anyway. So I can choose to believe him when he says he won't lie to me, or I can choose not to. I have decided to believe him.

In a similar vein, I am not sure I am prepared to have a real conversation about how I want to be acknowledged in some way. That ties into having a discussion about his sub since the only place I think he could actually acknowledge me is FetLife and therefore it predisposes that he would have to tell her about us. I would like to have some kind of "public" status there, but I believe that my current desire for recognition is stemming from the fact that my needs are going unmet and so when we get back on normal ground again it won't be as important to me. I am prepared to revisit this point if in fact my desire does not lessen.

I am going to talk to him about the phone/Skype thing and ask for maybe a once a week phone call if only when he's driving home. He should be able to give me that. I understand that he can only Skype when his wife is not home or IM if she's not around, so that isn't something that can change.

The not seeing him frequently isn't something that can really change either. Realistically, I would like to see him a minimum of once a month if I can. I'll have to wait and see what happens in nine weeks to see what kind of frequency he can give me.

So really, of that list, there is only one thing that I can ask for right now. The rest, I am just going to have to suck up for now and try to give him the patience he needs over the next few weeks.

I'm sure this blog sounds negative since by definition, I need the outlet more when I am unhappy than when I am happy. I will have to try harder to give a balanced perspective.

What I like about my relationship with L:


I like that he shows me he cares about me in various ways. He is there for me when I need someone to talk to, he makes it a point to ask how I am feeling, and he just generally gives me the overall feeling of being cared for.
I like that we are friends as well as lovers. His friendship is important to me.
The chemistry between us is very intense, at least on my end. I feel like he belongs in my life and having him there is important to me.
I have never felt so happy and fulfilled since we started seeing each other. Having two wonderful men in my life makes me feel so lucky, valued, and special.
The sex between us is absolutely incredible. I've never had a partner that I clicked so well with.
I felt like my heart recognized something about him before we even met, during the days we were Skyping leading up to our F2F meeting. I already felt differently about him than I did about any of my casual sex partners and I wanted more from him.
I do trust him at the core, despite my current worries. I feel comfortable with him.
I like that I have a partner that I trust enough to experiment with new sexual activities safely. I feel like I can explore my desires with him.
I feel wanted and desired when we are together. He makes me feel attractive and sexy and that I am a good lover.
I like that he is intelligent and I enjoy having conversations with him.
I like that we can have silly and fun conversations and just enjoy each other's company.
I like that we can have sexy conversations that drive us both crazy.


I really value him as my lover and I want him in my life. I know I am going to struggle over the next nine weeks and that the support he can give me to get through it is going to be limited. But sometimes, there really isn't a good choice. I don't want to give up all the good things about our relationship just because this time is going to suck.

I really miss him. I know I'd feel so much better if I could just see him, but it is what it is. I just have to keep reminding myself that this will all be worth it when it's over. I just need to vent sometimes and I don't really have anywhere to do that. I respect H's need to stay away from the emotional side of my relationship with L. He will always be first in my life and I need to make sure his needs are taken care of. I'm lucky that he loves me enough to allow me something I need, even though I know it is difficult for him to understand and accept.

So, I guess that leaves me still feeling crappy, but it is what it is for now anyway.

[GalaGirl]

I do not like that the other women in his life are getting their needs met while I get the leftovers. It makes me feel unimportant.

I do not like that I rarely get to talk to him on the phone or Skype, or even use IM chat.

does not compute with

I like that he shows me he cares about me in various ways. He is there for me when I need someone to talk to, he makes it a point to ask how I am feeling, and he just generally gives me the overall feeling of being cared for.

I am uncomfortable that he is willing to "control" this kind of information, especially since he and I are fluid bonded and that requires a lot of trust from me.

does not compute with

I do trust him at the core, despite my current worries. I feel comfortable with him.

There's other pairings there that do not line up. Those are some. Why don't they line up?

Galagirl

[Vicki82]

does not compute with





does not compute with



There's other pairings there that do not line up.

Why don't they?

Galagirl

The disparity is pre and post all this overwhelming crap in his life. Right now they don't match, but they certainly did before. I can only assume that when he has time for me again that they will again. And, we do still text and email, but it's just not the same.

Certainly, right now things suck and I am not getting what I need from him.

[GalaGirl]

I can only assume that when he has time for me again that they will again. And, we do still text and email, but it's just not the same.

And my point is -- if you are valuable and important, why isn't he making the time for you?

So he has work stress and a house remodel. So what? He cannot email you a note once a week to keep in touch? What are you? Chopped liver?

You deserve better treatment than this.

I find it sad you do not feel like you have the right to ask for your relationship to feed you in the way you need to be fed. We teach others how we want to be treated. You are teaching him you are ok being given leftovers. What motivates him to change that and feed you better? If anything -- your hubby is right. What if he is phasing you out? Just seeing just how little relationship maintaining he has to do while still getting all that YOU put into it.

GG

[Vicki82]

And my point is -- if you are valuable and important, why isn't he making
the time for you?

So he has work stress and a house remodel. So what? He cannot email you a note once a week to keep in touch? What are you? Chopped liver?

You deserve better treatment than this.

GG

Oh, I hear from him more than once a week! It's not like he is ignoring me completely. But it's a big come down to go from talking for hours every day to maybe a text or two a day and a brief email once a day.

My apologies if I made it out like I wasn't hearing from him at all. I won't be seeing him for those nine weeks and it's been four already, so that part really hurts. As a matter of fact, if I hadn't flown to see him at his layover point on his trip last month, I wouldn't have seen him since July. I don't know how I'd be managing that long, to be honest.

Maybe it's my problem, that I need so much communication. If you thought that getting an email once a week was enough, maybe my unhappiness getting a couple a day is disproportionate. But I feel like since I can't see him very often, that I need that communication to stay connected with him. Without it, I start to get unhappy.

He literally does not have the time to make for me right now. I know how things are. So I get the occasional email or text. He doesn't have time to sit down and chat with me for hours like he used to do, and I know that's true. Unfortunately, time is a finite resource. He gives me what he can. On Saturday night when I was very upset after reading those blog posts of his, he stayed with me until 1am when I'm sure he was just dying to go to bed. We spent an hour on the phone yesterday. He is giving me what he can.

[GalaGirl]

Well, if he was my LDR and I heard from him once a week *I* would be ok.

But I am not you and I'm not the one going hungry.

If you need more than that, you need more than that. You have that right.

YOU are the one in the relationship.

You could try to sit tight another 5 weeks but take note of how all this makes you feel.

You do not sound like you thrive in LDR -- maybe you don't want to deal in those any more. You like the happy hormone hit from the sex, and the NRE but those wear off. And there needs to be more than just that to have a real connection. You yourself recognize that.

GG

[Vicki82]

Once a week is about what I got from my casual sex guys where there was no real connection. I would definitely not be okay with that kind of frequency from L, or at least, I would dial back my emotions to FWB, which is not something I want to do. Honestly, I am not sure I could without ending things completely. It's well past that for me emotionally.

I hate LDR. I always said I would never be in one. When H and I were young, he wanted to go spend some time helping out in a third world country. I told him that I thought that was admirable, but that we should break up because I would not be happy in a long distance relationship. I thought this would be different since I have a primary relationship with my husband, so it's not like I get no touch or affection when I can't see L. But it's been harder on me than I thought it would be. I wish I could see him more often, but the times we are together are generally worth the frustrations in between. It's been four weeks now and this is about the point where it starts to hurt more.

I didn't go looking for one this time, either. L was supposed to be a one night stand. But things don't always go the way we plan, and he makes me very happy. Despite the trouble I'm having dealing with the distance, I'm glad he's in my life and I want to keep him there if he wants to be. And he says he does.

[Vicki82]

Seems like a tough situation for you emotionally. *hugs*

I think you need to take a bit of a step back. I see that you feel very strongly that his relationships are his to manage, and you don't want to affect them. You don't want a say in what he tells his sub and you don't want to affect the DADT in his marriage. The relationships are separate entities, and as long as you are happy in yours, the rest is his to manage. Is that correct? If so, I interpret it to mean that you have little influence/power when it comes to his other relationships, and you want it so. That is okay, and a valid place to be.

But why is it then that you worry so much about what you might cause to happen in the other relationships?

With power comes responsibility. If you have power to influence, you should use that wisely, and you should be concerned about more than yourself.

But you don't have/want power to influence. If you want to let him manage his relationships, let him do the work of managing the relationships. You focus on you.

Right now he is having his cake and eating it too, at least when it comes to your relationship (and by the sounds of it, at least with the sub as well). He gets to do whatever he wants, and you have/want no say in it, but then you worry about the consequences. Doesn't that seem messed up?

You are not responsible for his other relationships going well or going badly, especially if you have/want no influence.

If you ask for what you want, you aren't directly causing anything. Do you see that? He has choices to make. He has chosen to be in multiple relationship. That means that sometimes he may have conflicting commitments. He is responsible to manage that, not you. He also has a choice if you ask for something. He can choose to say yes or no. If what you ask for is something that will affect his other relationships, he needs to take that into consideration, and answer you accordingly. You don't need to pre-emptively worry about that. You aren't responsible for his other relationships. But you need to be true to yourself to be happy.

Are you sure part of your motivation in not asking what you want isn't coming from fear that if you do, he will say no? Fear of finding out just how much (or little) of a priority you are to him and how much (or little) he cares about you?

I can totally understand that. It would suck to find out that he doesn't care. But doesn't it also suck being with somebody who doesn't care and not knowing that? Or being so afraid to ask that you never get what you need and end up miserable, even though had they known about it, the other person would have been happy to do it?

I have a hard time asking for what I want, too. And most of the time there is fear in the way, that's why I'm suggesting it. It can be fear of abandonment. For me it's fear of not being accepted/understood as I am. Anyway, the first thing is to admit the fear, and the second is to face it. It's really a choice between misery and potential for happiness. You can sometimes even find that what is making you miserable isn't in fact not getting everything you want, but the fact that you can't express your feelings/wants to your partner. I.e. sometimes you feel better for speaking up even if the other person says no. Other times, it's a dealbreaker for you, and you have some difficult choices to make. You might still feel better, though.

I wrote a reply but the internet ate it. Second time around is never as good but I'll do my best.

Thank you for this post. It gave me a lot to think about.

I've been having trouble sleeping because I have been pretty upset about everything.

This is my first poly relationship. Any time in the past where I have developed feelings for a new man, I lost my desire for my current partner. That didn't happen this time. So I am sure I am making lots of mistakes just because I don't know how to handle the situation. I know I am; early in my relationship with L, I thought that I needed to keep things light and fun and drama free otherwise he wouldn't want to spend time with me. So, that's what we did for a few months. But you can't fit a square peg into a round hole, and we developed feelings for more. Actually, he thinks they were there right from the start. We had a discussion and he said he thought you could have good sex, or sex with no emotion, but not both. I said that we had good sex the first time we were together, and he said that it wasn't without emotion and I couldn't tell him that because he knows better. And I think he is right about that- we had something right from the start. He told me that relationships come with the messy stuff and it is what it is. He's always demonstrated that he cares about me and my feelings. But obviously, this wasn't the best way to go about having a relationship. Of course, I was trying NOT to have a relationship at that point!

Last night I was thinking to myself that asking him to acknowledge me on FetLife would solve both of the big issues that are bothering me. The honesty issue would be taken care of de facto because she would see me on his profile, so he'd have to talk to her about it. And I would get the validation I want so much for our relationship.

On the other hand, I can see his side of things. I still think he made a mistake by not telling her about us early on, but I can kind of see how it snowballed given that it wasn't supposed to be anything. And this is going to cause him a lot of extra stress if he tells her now, which he really doesn't need right now. And I'm not sure that this is something I actually NEED, or if it's just something I want right now since my needs aren't being met by him. It didn't really matter to me before all this external stuff started because he was giving me what I needed from him, so it didn't matter to me if he was keeping me a secret. I don't want to be selfish about something minor if in 9 weeks it won't matter to me anymore.

So I'm not really sure what I want to do. But my feelings keep shifting day by day so I'm just going to try and sit on it for a while. I don't think I'll be hearing much from him over the next couple of days anyway since he is now sick on top of everything else so I won't have to pretend everything is okay when it's not. But on the other hand, I certainly don't want every conversation between us to be a heavy, loaded one. That really isn't fun and I wouldn't want that either.

I know he cares about me. I also know that right now, I am a pretty low priority. It is what it is. There are other things that are more important right now and I understand that. He's married and has responsibilities. If I don't like that, well, I'm married too right? At some point he has no more to give and I just have to suck it up. Time is a finite resource and so is emotional energy.

Sometimes, things really are complicated and I just don't know what to do.

[Vicki82]

L really is making an effort to connect with me the way I need. It has made so much of a difference in how I'm feeling. Does it still hurt that we haven't seen each other in 5 weeks and it will be longer? Fuck yeah. But at least I feel more secure and happier about our relationship.

I asked him for more phone calls when he's driving home from work at least, and the very next day he texted me and asked if he could call. Unfortunately I happened to be unavailable then but I really appreciate that he tried! And he made time for me to talk about the stuff that's been bothering me.

I feel a lot more comfortable than I did a week ago. I feel like my trust and comfort level are back to where they were before. I feel full of love again.

So I didn't get what I wanted... he said that FetLife wasn't the place for our kind of relationship since it's not about kink, and that he keeps his sex life private. I can understand that. He says the reason he acknowledges his sub there is because it's obviously a kink thing. I told him that I think I was asking because I felt like I was unimportant to him after reading that blog post about exclusivity with her; that if she was meeting all my needs, he wouldn't want me. He made it very clear to me that I meet different needs from her and that he loves me.

He also made me feel better about the fluid bonding thing. He told me that the issue hasn't arisen for them, and it's not something he is considering anyway, that he only does that with me. And maybe I'm not being cautious enough, but I believe him. What am I saying, I have never really shown great judgment when it comes to him. The connection between us was so intense that before we met I was fantasizing about going bareback with him. And I've never been interested in that with a casual sex partner before (which was all I was looking for at the time).

So I guess despite the distance, he is making me feel more like a priority, which I really needed. I am feeling more like I have the capacity to be patient and wait, hard as it is when I want to see him so much.

Things are also better with H. My mom took our son for the weekend so we could have some alone time (not because of this, it was preplanned), and we had a wonderful time. It was like how life was when we were dating :) We went out to dinner on Friday night and flirted and just felt madly in love. Yesterday we went out for dinner (with a nice bottle of champagne) and a movie. It was just so nice.

Today kiddo came home and we had a nice Thanksgiving dinner. So all in all, things are looking up :)

[Vicki82]

It's funny how someone can tell you something over and over, and then finally it clicks in your head and makes sense even though you thought you understood before.

Someone posted this on another board I'm on and it just felt so poignant to me. "In the end, it's not the amount of time you spent together, but the quality of it. The best relationships could be only a few days or a week, and even that, not everyone is lucky enough to find it. Enjoy NRE, treat each other right, and let the rest of the story fall into place."

Even when I'm sad that I'm not seeing L, I have to remember that what we have is really special. I've had very intense chemistry with only a few men in my life. And they are all still in my life and very dear to me, whether we still have sex or not.

Maybe sometimes people do come into your life for a reason, and you need to treasure it. It's not all that common not to fight for it when things are tough.

I can only hope for many, many more days with both L & H, but in the meantime I can just keep reminding myself how lucky I am to have not one but two wonderful men who love me in my life.

[Vicki82]

Things have gotten a lot better with H and I as well. I am really proud of how far the two of us have come as a couple. When we met, we were just kids; I was 18 and he was 19. Neither of us had any idea how to handle a serious relationship, but we were drunk on love and damn well were going to do it anyway.

And it was awful. We had some terrible fights and said horrible things to each other. Any little issue would become a possible relationship ender because we just let things spiral out of control. Honestly, I'm still not sure why we didn't break up a dozen times in the 2nd-4th years of our relationship. First year of course was still the honeymoon phase.

Then in the fourth year, we got married. Something changed almost immediately. I can't really describe it. It's just like we instinctively KNEW that we had made a permanent commitment to each other so we had to change the way we related to each other in a fight. So, we started learning. We still had the occasional horrible fight, but it got a lot better. We learned to be nicer to each other, and to try to be fair. I wouldn't say our relationship was great then, but it got better.

Yesterday morning, we had a brief but ugly fight. We both took some time to cool off, and in the evening we went and sat on our couch and cuddled, and talked about our feelings. As usual, the reason we were fighting was that we were misunderstanding each other, and since we're both under stress and tired right now we allowed our old patterns to come back into play. When we thought about it, we realized we hadn't had an argument like that in more than a year. We just don't do that anymore. We've gotten so much better at communicating that we work on clarification rather than assumption.

So was the fight ugly? Yes, but it was literally less than ten minutes, and we handled it in such a productive way afterwards. It helped us both realize how far we've come and we agreed that we're proud of ourselves. We made our favourite dinner and cuddled up to watch a movie afterwards. Good times :)

H thinks that we just got lucky to have our relationship survive this long that we got to a place where we are really and truly happy with each other and getting our needs met. It's true that most couples who fall in love as young as we were don't work out, because they lack the same communication skills that we did. I still think that we each saw potential in the other to become what we have become now, and decided it was worth the investment. Did we get lucky? Hell yes. But I think we earned it, too.

I have a wonderful husband and I love him more than anything.

[Vicki82]

I did a bad, bad thing :( And now I feel awful, so I am trying to work out my feelings.

I'd actually been feeling pretty good lately. L and I hadn't had a lot of time to talk, but I was still feeling loved and valued so I was okay despite the fact it's been nearly 6 weeks since we've been together.

Then, for whatever reason, I did something bad. Why the fuck did I do it? I knew exactly how it would make me feel and I did it anyway. L's sub has her personal journal linked off FetLife and I haven't looked at it except once at the very beginning of L telling me he was seeing her. At that point I knew it was going to hurt and L suggested it was probably better that I not read it anyway. So I haven't looked at it since.

I still don't know why I felt the urge to do it today. But I did. And now I hurt like hell and I want to yell and scream and cry. I'm here because I want to actually try to work through my feelings rather than just be a big crying mess. What I really want to do is go upstairs to bed and cry. But I have my son home and can't really do that.

They saw each other FOUR times this week. That explains why I haven't been getting much time from him this week. And she wrote about an hour where they just lay together and cuddled... but no, I couldn't even stop there when I already felt like a mess. I had to see that they had their MFM when her fiance was in town. The one thing I had really wanted to do with him first.

So now I don't know what to do. I'm trying to calm down and remind myself that multiple relationships means that nothing he does with her takes away from what he has with me. He loves me and that's what matters. And it's not like he could have seen me on those four nights anyway because of the distance.

But yeah, I hurt. And I still feel like crying. And I'm sure he's going to be disappointed when he finds out I read her journal because their relationship is not any of my business and nothing is different from whether I read it or not so all it's doing is creating more stress. And public or not, I am violating his privacy.

And now would be a really awful time for me to tell me that I need attention from him because the renos are causing stress between him and his wife and the last thing he needs is crap from me too. So I recognize the need to just be supportive right now and wait, but that's hard for me.

And then I still have this thought worming up that I am glad that he got to see her and have some pleasure because I know things are really shitty for him right now and he deserves it. But it hurts that we can't be together right now and there is still so long to go.

Maybe I'm not cut out for poly. I'm sure as hell not cut out for LD. And this time I created the problem all by myself. In fact, there really isn't even a problem except in my head. He didn't do anything wrong. So why am I hurting?

[Vicki82]

Still feeling a little messed up but I think that has more to do with not sleeping well than anything else. I'm actually proud of the way I managed my emotions the other day. I did not allow my negativity to snowball and ruin my day at home with H and son. I did not go and crawl into bed and cry and hide. I did email L and ask for generic reassurance that doing stuff with me is still special even if he does it with someone else. I haven't yet told him that I read her blog but he wasn't around all weekend. Hopefully we'll get to talk sometime soon. He did email me last night and tell me he misses me and he's sorry he hasn't been around.

I do a lot of thinking when I'm in bed and I figured I'd jot down a few of the things that were running through my head. I'm the kind of person who will replay potential future conversations in my head over and over and then sometimes never have them. But they do give me courage and help me figure out what to say when I do.

So how did I feel when I read those blog posts? Well, as is probably obvious from my last post, I got completely flooded and irrational. A big wave of negative feelings just overwhelmed me and I couldn't handle it. After I wrote here and was able to calm down a little, I tried to pick through everything and that made it a little less upsetting.

My first reaction was just a huge amount of envy. It doesn't matter that she is local and I'm LD when I'm not rational. I just feel sad and frustrated that she can see him three or four times a week and I haven't seen him in six. I want what she has, very badly.

And that led to insecurity. It's been a long time. The more time you spend with someone the more connected you get, so is it that unreasonable that I worry that his connection with her will deepen while mine gets more tenuous? He said to me in a chat recently that we meet different needs, that I am not the kind of person for a D/s relationship and she is not the kind of person to fall in love with. But what does that even mean??? He's told me before that he believes he can love many women but only be in love with his wife. So how exactly is this supposed to be reassuring? I know he has feelings for his sub.

Then I did feel some good feelings that things haven't been as shitty for him as I'd thought they'd been. Not that I ask a lot but when I did, he tells me he hasn't seen her in a few days. I guess I was asking at the wrong times.

I'm still sad that he had the MFM with her first. He told me months ago that he wanted to do it with me first. I'm sure he doesn't even remember. And of course I wouldn't expect him to turn down an opportunity to do something he really wants when who knows when we'll see each other again. But it still makes me sad that we didn't get to try it for the first time together. It takes away some of the specialness for me.

But, any rate, I might be a little down but I'm okay, and that's what matters. I'm glad I didn't dump all my flooded mess on him and instead worked on it myself, since I'm the one who made it.

[dingedheart]

I was struck by a couple things after reading your last few entries. I was thinking about conversations I had with my wife about "specialness ", "firsts", if there was or should be anything that we "keep just between us".

My question ...has your husband expressed some of the things that have you all twisted up with your Bf.


Also what will happen if and when your husband reads this blog or the other thread just like you read the BF's stuff and Sub's blog ?

And with the strict DADT in place I take it your husband was not going to be invited in the history making 3some. Was he aware of the plan ...and the person who would be getting the honor's ?

[Vicki82]

Thanks for commenting. I appreciate knowing that someone is reading and might have some insight for me.

My H and I are not DADT. L and his wife are, and yes it's strict. My H prefers I keep the emotional details to myself, but we talk about L sometimes, often in bed. The intent was to have MFM with H and L. I don't think that anything could be better than having hot threesome sex with two men I love, who both love me. That sounds totally incredible. Both tell me they are up for it. They're both straight but we discussed potential contact and they aren't too worried about it; but it's going to be all about me :) H and I have had some incredibly hot intense sex with him telling me what it will be like when L is there with us, too.

If we do it, anyway. I do still have some vestigial negative feelings about L doing it first with his sub. He and I talked last night and I told him what I did. Unsurprisingly, he wasn't too happy about it, but I apologized for violating his privacy and told him I wouldn't do it again. He told me I have some stuff mixed up in my head and that's probably why I am so out of sorts. He tells me that he doesn't see her nearly as often as I think he does (like every two weeks, not multiple times for week), and that he categorizes it almost like a relationship of convenience. He says it's for kink and sex; it's not love like what we have.

I just wish I could see him. I think that would help a lot. 6 weeks and counting.

I don't have to worry about H reading a blog. Not only is he not the message board type, but he and I are pretty open about discussing issues. If he wanted to read it, there is nothing here I would be uncomfortable with him seeing. He would prefer not to know details about my emotions for L, so I doubt he'd come here even if I told him where it was. He knows I am in love with L and that L loves me. He knows L is an incredible sex partner. But he also knows that I love him and my life with him, and that I'm not going anywhere. Last night while I was chatting with L on IM, H came upstairs and cuddled with me in bed. I told him that I was talking to L but only for about twenty minutes more and then I'd be all his. He was fine with it and stayed for a few minutes with me.

On the other hand, L might find this at some point. I don't know if he would go looking for it, but I'm not going to send the link. If he does, I doubt he'll read anything that I wouldn't tell him. I've been trying to keep that promise I made to him to be completely open and honest about things, so it's not like there are any secrets here. It sucked telling him that I read his sub's blog because I knew he'd be upset and I felt awful about it (both reading it and the act of reading it), but I didn't want to lie to him.

H is seriously not the jealous type. Just not something that bothers him. He struggled a little when he had to actually see that I am in love with L since I got so messed up a couple of weeks ago, but he tells me he is fine now. I have done my best to continue to feed his security and lovedness, and to remind him that I am still the same person I was before. I think that has helped a lot.

H and I haven't had a conversation about specialness and stuff, and I guess I didn't think there was anything we should keep between us. So I don't know why it's bothering me about L. It's not that I didn't want him to do it with her at all. I just wanted us to experience it as a first together. Actually, that is the reason why I want H involved in the MFM I think. I do want us to experience that as a first together. I had wanted it to be all three of us... but now I can't have that.

[Cleo]

Vicki, I feel for you. I've done things like that (reading stuff I know I shouldn't - it's not really snooping because its publicly out there, but you KNOW that the info will be disturbing or hurtful, and you still do it! It's the main reason I'm not FB friends with my one lover, MrBrown. I don;t see him very often, which is his choice, not mine, and follwing his activities on FB would be torture for me. But I have been tempted... )

You say that you don't know why you did it. I think it would be good to examine the reason behind the action.. look deep inside yourself and try to figure out why you did it. Is it jealousy? insecurity? a way to connect with him because you haven't seen him for so long? Only you can find the answers, and I think they could be useful in dealing with what are obviously issues in your relationship with him.

I have to say that this:

Then I did feel some good feelings that things haven't been as shitty for him as I'd thought they'd been. Not that I ask a lot but when I did, he tells me he hasn't seen her in a few days. I guess I was asking at the wrong times.



worries me a little (mostly in combination with the fact that he sort of asked you wether you had read his blog, lately.). Is it a possibility, in your mind, that he lies to you? Even if this is only a subconscious fear, this could be the very reason you looked up her blog.. to look for confirmation of a possible lie.

There are many aspects about this relationship that are not the way you want them to be. I think that your reading her blog was maybe an attempt to gain some control, through getting more information about him and his life, the life that is taking place without you.

[Vicki82]

I've been thinking a lot about what you wrote, Cleo, and you've probably hit on a lot of the reasons why I did it. I honestly never felt interested in reading her blog before and I think part of it was me worrying that he was lying to me. And that IS a bad thing, because it's not something I want. Worrying is certainly not productive, and I don't want to be in a relationship where I have to worry about it.

I asked myself if I thought he lied to me and the answer is no. Do I think it's possible that he'll keep things from me, or perhaps interpret questions narrowly? Yes. I'm not wild about that, but again, it is what it is, and I can choose to accept that risk or not. I don't think he is looking to lie to me or keep things from me. He's just doing the best he can, like I am. I'm not perfect. I have made a concerted effort to be completely open and honest with him even when it makes me nervous, because I'm pretty sure that most people in relationships do keep at least part of themselves back; they aren't open and honest from the beginning. I've been off the shelf for so long that I don't even remember how to behave early in a relationship.

In context, now that he's explained in more detail about his relationship with her, I think I must have badly overreacted to his blog. If he's not having an emotional relationship with her in the same sense that he is with me, then I guess I can see why he doesn't think it's a big deal not to tell her about me if they're just doing kink. But I still think he handled it pretty badly because I can't imagine he didn't think that it was going to hurt me. In hindsight, it feels like things have been off since that night. He told me he was annoyed and confused that I read her blog, but that it wouldn't change anything between us. I wonder if it has though. Which of course makes me wish that I hadn't told him... see what I mean about keeping things back? But despite being a damn good liar, I really hate lying. It makes me feel dirty. It's like the more I want to keep something from someone, the more I feel like it's on my mind and I can't stop thinking about it until I tell them. And I really don't like it. But I'm not perfect, so I can't expect perfection either. Besides, someone perfect would not be fun to be with, I think!

But I think the other things are part of it, too. I am really missing our connection. It's not even just the not seeing him, hard as it is. It's not getting to talk to him nearly as often as we used to. I worry a lot about what will happen even if things go back to "normal" in December; will this amount of time apart have changed our relationship? It's not like we have years of history built up to keep it going. His life is going on without me, and while I'm happy that he has other good things in his life, I feel out of the loop I guess. I don't know that I am expressing that well.

And I just don't even know what I'm "entitled" to expect. I know he's busy and tired and has his wife and his sub's needs to deal with, so I don't really know where I fit in. It's not just the fitting in either; it's that I know he needs downtime too. Pretty much every day since we met, we have at least emailed to say goodnight even if we couldn't talk. Last night he didn't email me goodnight and I haven't heard from him yet today. It makes me a little bit sad, especially since he knows it is something that means a lot to me. But I don't want to complain about it because I don't want to be another obligation. He already knows, so if he's not emailing me, I can assume he had a reason since he's not a jerk. I'm sure I don't do a great job of portraying him; it's tough to explain an issue and give ALL the background. But he is a good man and he treats me very well. Before all this, I was happier than I've ever been in my life. I just feel like I'm stuck right now, waiting.

And it's not just that, but there needs to be some fun, too. I'm tired of having heavy conversations about issues. I'm tired of feeling crappy because I miss him. I liked it when we just had fun and flirted and chatted with each other. It just gets harder to do that when I'm feeling lonely and down, or I'm still thinking about the issues that are bothering me. I know if we got to see each other it would make a big difference at least in how I feel... but we can't.

It's been nearly seven weeks, and it's going to be longer. I am hurting, and there really isn't much that can be done about it. You are right that at the moment there is a lot about our relationship that I don't like. But before all this crap pretty much ate his private life, I was deliriously happy. So all I can really do right now is keep swimming and wait to see what happens when the crap is finished. I don't know what we'll have then but it's worth it to me to find out.

Although I have to admit that I am still pretty down about the MFM. That was something that was important to me. I'm not sure how I feel about doing it now and that bothers me, too. I believe I am overreacting about it but now every time I think about it, I think about him doing it with her. It feels like some of the specialness is lost if that makes any sense. It was going to be the first time for L, H, and me. But there isn't anything that can be done about it now so I don't know why my sad feelings aren't going away. It's done. Period.

I'm just feeling lonely. It's been nice having H home for the past few weeks but he leaves on Monday for another trip and I'm going to be alone. I have a feeling this is going to be tough since I'm still feeling fragile.

[Vicki82]

Feeling way overemotional tonight so I figured I'd vent here so I can hopefully get some sleep instead of dissecting my life over and over in the dark. I do most of my thinking at night so whenever something is bothering me, I have trouble sleeping. Comments gladly welcomed.

L and I haven't really talked since last Wednesday. Things seem to be back to "normal" between us, by that I mean the way things were during this crazy busy time but before the issue with the blogs, but things with the renos have been insane and I know he is working very hard. He's sent me several apologetic emails and tells me that he misses me and wants very much to spend time with me and that he will try to make time for me this week.

Last night we talked for just a little bit, and he told me that his wife was going out tonight and if we could Skype. I said I was free after my son goes to bed at seven. So, I got excited because it's been so long... four weeks since our last Skype conversation. Then I got a message half an hour ago that his wife got home before my son had even gone to bed, so we couldn't.

I just feel like crying. He just literally has no room in his life for me right now. He says he feels like it's been so long since we talked last, and I'm sure he is just thinking it's been about a week, but it feels like a lot longer than that to me. I feel so disconnected from his life. Intellectually I understand that all that is going on is a hell of a lot of work and not nearly enough downtime, but emotionally, I just feel so lonely and unhappy.

I never thought it would be this hard to just kind of put things on hold for a few months. I know what's going on, it's not that he doesn't want to talk to me, so why shouldn't I be able just to wait? But it's felt so crushing to me. Today is seven weeks from the last time we saw each other and I still really have no idea when we will be together again, except that it will be after US Thanksgiving. I need so badly just to feel his arms around me again.

I should clarify- it's not that we're not talking at all. We texted a little bit today and sent a couple of IMs. What I'm missing the loss of is what we had before the House Renovation That Ate His Life. We used to text during the day and then chat for hours in the evening, every single day. Until this happened, not a single day had gone by since we met that we didn't talk at least a little bit, even when he was away for work trips in Europe or Asia he made time for me. It was still a rare treat to get Skype or a phone call, but we talked so much that I just felt so loved and connected. And we saw each other at least once a month. Going from that to this? I don't even really have words to explain how I feel as a result, except that it's lousy.

I don't know if I can handle this. But if I give up now, I've gone through the past few months for nothing and I'd be throwing away a potentially very rewarding relationship. But I feel like my heart is breaking. I really don't do LD very well. My H travels a lot for work and since I thrive so much on intimate touch, I always had a hard time coping with him going away. But he's home much more than not, and he's never gone for more than three weeks at once and then I usually have him for at least a week. This loneliness is crushing. When I have H around, it's easier, but it's not like H can substitute for L. I am very happy in my relationship with H, and things are satisfying between us. I am longing for intimacy with L, even if it's not sexual. Although I must admit I am missing that, too.

I went out for coffee today with a guy from FetLife and might have something casual with him, and I am seeing one of my previous FWB on Thursday. It's not anywhere close to how I'd feel with H or L, but I'm hoping it will at least distract me a little.

[Vicki82]

Still feeling overemotional today. I actually just want to crawl into bed and sleep for a while, since that usually helps, but I've got my toddler at home with me today so it's not really a viable option.

I emailed L and just asked him directly what is going to happen when the renovation is over; would things go back to the way they used to be between us?

He responded back that he knew I was looking for reassurances but he wanted to be completely honest with me. He reminded me that when we started seeing each other, his work brought him near my city once a month, and that doesn't happen anymore. He wasn't anticipating the promotion or the renovations, both of which ate into his free time significantly. So he can't promise that something else won't come up. It also sounds like work is going to continue to be a problem and he says the holidays are usually busy.

He tells me that none of this changes how important and special I am to him, and that he hopes that he'll have more free time in December. He has some time off then and thinks he might be able to make something work.

It's not what I wanted to hear... but it's also not what I was afraid to hear. Right now I still feel like I'm hanging and don't know what to do, except that I feel like crying.

[Vicki82]

Thank god for husbands, is all I can say. I had a meltdown tonight. Rational thought fled and I was just a mess.

I told L that I felt like he had no room in his life for me, and he said ouch but he can see why I said that. Then everything just kind of came out all at once and I told him how I don't feel like I am important to him. I know my life is a lot less busy but I make time for things that matter to me. Going months without seeing him... I didn't think I was being that unreasonable. If I hadn't flown out to see him, we wouldn't have been together since July and now he's telling me maybe at Christmas?

He told me he was feeling overwhelmed by what I said and so I said okay we'd talk later. I don't know when later is. I'm sure he's working on the renovations tonight and will have no energy when he's done. For that matter, I'm not sure when he will have the energy to deal with me. I guess I can't blame him. I know he has busy stuff going on, I know that stuff takes priority over me... but that doesn't mean it's easy for me to cope with losing my connection to him.

I called H in tears and I apologized and said I know he doesn't want to hear about the emotional stuff but I really needed him. And he was there for me and supported me and listened to everything and even gave me good advice. He really is the most wonderful man and I love him so much.

He thinks I have probably messed things up with L, though. He says he would not want to deal with my issues if he had so much stuff on his plate and would probably cut me loose. I guess if that's the decision he makes there's nothing I can do about it. It would hurt a lot not to have L in my life; I truly believe that the connection we have is rare and that we were meant to find each other. I don't want to lose him. But I don't know how to keep doing this because it hurts so much.

[Vicki82]

L and I talked again last night. Apparently there was more information he wasn't letting me in on because it hurt too much to talk about. His wife is going for exploratory surgery in three weeks for a different issue unrelated to her heart. Holy crap. I can't even imagine either having that many health problems or having my spouse with them. I can't say I blame him for burying himself in work and renovations.

On the other hand... if he doesn't tell me what's going on, how am I supposed to feel when he distances himself from me? When I feel like there is no future for us to look forward to, and that all the pain I am going through is for nothing? He tells me to be open and honest with him and I have tried, and then he keeps things back from me. And I can understand why he does it with things that hurt, but it makes things harder for me and it keeps more emotional distance between us.

Obviously I am going to take a big step back from contacting him. The last thing he needs right now in his life is more stress.

Right now though, the only thing going through my head is that I think it's functionally over, whether we've declared the patient dead or not. I am still in love with him, and I want so much to be with him, but I just don't see how it can happen when he has so much going on. I can't maintain this level of emotional involvement without hurting myself, and I don't think I can dial it down to FWB. I've never had a broken heart before and all I want to do is go back to bed and cry. Thank goodness my son goes to preschool today because I just don't think I can function.

I think I am done here. I never wanted to be poly. All I wanted was to have some casual fun with other men, and I never asked for this. What was the point of falling in love if it was going to lead to this? How could we have been meant to meet when it went nowhere?

[dingedheart]

I'm sorry you have a broken heart but this poly stuff tends to be full contact...hearts get broken and sometimes dinged up:D


I think this guy's a pro ...he knows what he's doing. He's always got an answer. How did he phrase it ...shaping how information is released?


I'm curious when your husband agree to opening up what did he see the benefit to him would be? This sounds like Aurelie's situation....wife getting physical need met elsewhere. Does he get off on the cuckold thing?

In the poly/mono dynamic the happiness of spouse/(primary) partner is the number one thing in that quantitative analysis. On balance do you think that was true. Or did he get stuck being the emotional tampon for this other guy in between visits.

[Vicki82]

Well, I don't. He's not a sociopath. He just doesn't do feelings well and he prefers to avoid the rough ones. I wasn't going to come back and post but I had to correct your misapprehension.

My H got a great deal out of us opening up. He is not a cuckold. He got a happier, more sexual wife who was getting her needs met and suddenly he got the wife of his dreams. More relaxed and laid back, more patient, more loving. H told me several times it was the best decision we'd made short of having our son.

My H was always encouraging me to see L or other men. He thinks it is good for me as a person and what makes me happy makes him happy. He has no desire to close and most definitely does not feel used. The only times he was exposed to my emotions was during the blog incident and last night when I broke down completely. So no- this might be what I needed, but it most certainly is not all about me.

[dingedheart]

Are you saying that was your farewell post? or you didn't want to respond to my misconceptions.:confused:

Big distance between sociopath and pro (shaping the truth ) :D


So just the happy wife and then the spill over sex. Check numbers 1 and 2. :D

You seemed troubled/ conflicted for some time now and did mention the depression or not wanting to get out bed and then sharing those feeling with your husband I didn't think it would have been that specific to be only twice. And most people can't hide their emotions that well....so some mood bleed through is going to happen. Because of the distance and the infrequency of your visits and the other demands on his time it seemed natural that condition 1..happy wife and condition 2 spillover sex might not be happening. In most cases they are linked. Couple that with the emotional mop up ....hence the question. At least you can see how one might get there right?

Hey, from all you've written about your husband he seems to be doing great. He's happy, supportive, adventurous... better than most who come here. But how do you figure it's not all about you or at least didn't start that way.

[Cleo]

I think I am done here. I never wanted to be poly. All I wanted was to have some casual fun with other men, and I never asked for this. What was the point of falling in love if it was going to lead to this? How could we have been meant to meet when it went nowhere?

Hi Vicki, I am so sorry you are so sad. But I wanted to address this statement. I understand you are really hurting right now and that you can't see the point of this pain. But, you mentioned yourself that in the beginning, you were so happy to be in the relationship with L. You experienced something with him that made you stretch your boundaries, and it made you grow. You say you never wanted to be poly, but you discovered that it is possible for you to have strong, loving feelings for more than one person. This is what you take with you, even if this relationship has no future.

You also learned something about your relationship with your husband. He is even more loving, supportive, and 'there' for you than you originally thought.

I've been reading your threads from the beginning. Your situation is not at all similar to mine, yet something about the way you wrote about your fears and insecurities really resonated with me. I was reading back in this thread and realized what it was. I could be wrong of course but this is how I see it: your biggest problem was/is that you feel like you have no control. L decided the terms and rules of your relationship, and this was ok in the beginning when your needs were being met, but when he kept changing the script, things got out of hand. Your reading his blog and his sub's blog were all attempts from you to gain back control. But you have to accept that the only control you have is in how you react to things and how you deal with things.

he is not going to be a different man. He will continue to distance himself from you when neccessary (to him). He will continue to be with his sub. He will not come and visit you more. The DADT with his wife is not going to change. These are all things that are out of your control and no amount of emailing him, stating your needs, or crying is going to change that.

I don't think he is as bad a guy as some of the commenters on your threads seem to think. I think he is probably a good guy, who has a lot on his plate, and sometimes slips up in managing his complicated life.
The question is: can you keep the love you feel for this man alive, can you nurture it inside yourself, accepting that the realtionship as you knew it is over, accepting that you won't email or skype with him daily, letting him go as someone who is in your life on a daily basis, and then decide (together!) on a new shape for this connection that you obviously have? Skype once a week, see each other once every couple of weeks?

You know it only SEEMS like you've been compromising on your wants and needs, because you've been upset and hurt about not seeing him. Seeing him less often and being less in touch with him and actually being ok with that, could make a world of difference. And you could still love him, you know.

Some of my situation is, in fact, similar to yours. When I met MrBrown, one of my lovers, for the first 2 months or so, we communicated daily, and saw each other sometimes twice a week. Then he started to withdraw. Dates got more infrequent, and sometimes a week went by without any contact. In the beginning this drove me crazy. I could not understand why he did not want to be with me more, connect more. But as I got to know him, I understood his personality. I think his NRE just faded really quickly. He loves me, I can feel that when I'm with him. I trust him completely. It's just that the relationship has not turned out the way I expected it in the beginning. It took me more than 6 months to finally get it: it did not matter that I was waiting for an email or for him to propose a date. My waiting wasn't going to change anything about his behavior. It only made me miserable.

Now? I'ts good. We see each other once every 4, 5 weeks. The bare minimum of mails and texts in between. And sometimes I text that I love him and he does not reply. But then a week later he'll text me that he's thinking of me.

I still get occasional little tinges of anxiety, usually right after a date. But overall. I have accepted him the way he his, and have accepted the dynamic of our connection. I'm not a victim of his behavior, I consciously choose to be in a relationship with him. And right now, I would not want to chage a thing about it.

(btw, he is also a Dom. The D/s thing only plays an occasional role in our sex lif, but it definitely defines his behavior - I think. )

[Vicki82]

But how do you figure it's not all about you or at least didn't start that way.

I seem to be a little low on patience today, I must admit. But it's not all about me because my husband and I are a team. We have a very strong marriage. What is good for me is good for him and vice versa. Since you can't separate the action from the consequences, my having other partners is a great thing for him and he strongly supports it. Even from the very first time I had casual sex, once he got used to the idea he saw how it was benefitting both of us. He doesn't have to fuck another woman to be happy that I am having extramarital sex.

He's been there for me even though he's away at work right now. He takes little breaks and texts me and is helping me get through this. He's already texted me that if I cut L loose or the other way around, that there are other guys out there and that I WILL be happy again because he won't stand for anything less. He is truly the love of my life.

I have NOT been unloading on him except when I was so upset I couldn't think straight. That's been twice. The first time he struggled with it. This time, he's been there for me 100%. I apologized but told him that I needed him so much and he told me that he always wanted to be there for me when I was hurting. That's love.

I am not depressed, but I can see why you'd read it that way. I just happen to feel that my bed is a safe place and that's where I go when I'm feeling sad or overwhelmed. I'm a sensory person and I have this fuzzy blanket that helps sometimes. Also, I find if I sleep, it helps me get away from the immediateness of whatever is upsetting me and I often find more perspective to deal with it.


I've been reading your threads from the beginning. Your situation is not at all similar to mine, yet something about the way you wrote about your fears and insecurities really resonated with me. I was reading back in this thread and realized what it was. I could be wrong of course but this is how I see it: your biggest problem was/is that you feel like you have no control. L decided the terms and rules of your relationship, and this was ok in the beginning when your needs were being met, but when he kept changing the script, things got out of hand. Your reading his blog and his sub's blog were all attempts from you to gain back control. But you have to accept that the only control you have is in how you react to things and how you deal with things.

he is not going to be a different man. He will continue to distance himself from you when neccessary (to him). He will continue to be with his sub. He will not come and visit you more. The DADT with his wife is not going to change. These are all things that are out of your control and no amount of emailing him, stating your needs, or crying is going to change that.

I don't think he is as bad a guy as some of the commenters on your threads seem to think. I think he is probably a good guy, who has a lot on his plate, and sometimes slips up in managing his complicated life.
The question is: can you keep the love you feel for this man alive, can you nurture it inside yourself, accepting that the realtionship as you knew it is over, accepting that you won't email or skype with him daily, letting him go as someone who is in your life on a daily basis, and then decide (together!) on a new shape for this connection that you obviously have? Skype once a week, see each other once every couple of weeks?

You know it only SEEMS like you've been compromising on your wants and needs, because you've been upset and hurt about not seeing him. Seeing him less often and being less in touch with him and actually being ok with that, could make a world of difference. And you could still love him, you know.

Some of my situation is, in fact, similar to yours. When I met MrBrown, one of my lovers, for the first 2 months or so, we communicated daily, and saw each other sometimes twice a week. Then he started to withdraw. Dates got more infrequent, and sometimes a week went by without any contact. In the beginning this drove me crazy. I could not understand why he did not want to be with me more, connect more. But as I got to know him, I understood his personality. I think his NRE just faded really quickly. He loves me, I can feel that when I'm with him. I trust him completely. It's just that the relationship has not turned out the way I expected it in the beginning. It took me more than 6 months to finally get it: it did not matter that I was waiting for an email or for him to propose a date. My waiting wasn't going to change anything about his behavior. It only made me miserable.

Now? I'ts good. We see each other once every 4, 5 weeks. The bare minimum of mails and texts in between. And sometimes I text that I love him and he does not reply. But then a week later he'll text me that he's thinking of me.

I still get occasional little tinges of anxiety, usually right after a date. But overall. I have accepted him the way he his, and have accepted the dynamic of our connection. I'm not a victim of his behavior, I consciously choose to be in a relationship with him. And right now, I would not want to chage a thing about it.

Cleo, thank you for your post, because I think you really do understand where I'm coming from. He isn't a bad guy. Is he doing things in a way that I am not thrilled with? Yes. Am I hurting him in return? I am sure that I am. I'm certainly not giving him the support and understanding he needs right now.

We've been emailing back and forth today. I requested a face to face so that we could go over everything and he has come back to me and basically said the world would end if he took a day off work right now and he isn't available on weekends... so there it is. I've been trying, but it's clear that we're both misunderstanding each other via email and that has been decidedly unpleasant. I'm back to being emotionally flooded and not rational. Certainly if I was rational, I would not be dumping all my shit on a guy who barely has time to sleep and eat and is worrying about his wife going through yet another health crisis. So I guess I am just a bad person, plain and simple.

I know at least a couple of points in the last email I sent him weren't fair, and he tells me that I misunderstood his last message too. But I really don't know what's going on. I flooded him and he was going out for an evening with his wife so I doubt I'll hear from him again tonight. I'm a mess myself.

What really hurt was that when I requested the face to face, he gave me his reasons but the answer was just no. It wasn't like he offered a phone call or anything else instead. And I know he's going to a kink thing on Friday with his sub. I asked him why he couldn't even make another suggestion when he knows this is serious, and why he wouldn't be willing to miss the kink event if I was willing to come to his city and talk. If I really am important to him, then why am I coming last on the priority list?

Cleo, I think he basically wants what you have with MrBrown. He asked me in that last email if I'd be okay with seeing him 3-4x a year. He told me that he loves me and that he thinks that our feelings for each other make this more than a FWB situation... but that's effectively what he wants. I am not sure this is something I can cope with. My feelings for him are so strong that I have no idea if I can dial things back to FWB level. And if our feelings make it more, than how can he expect it to be other than what it is? I feel like he wants to force our relationship to change to a different shape than where it would go naturally. But maybe that's what he is thinking about me and we're just incompatible with our desires. I don't know.

By the way, Skyping once a week and seeing him every couple of weeks would be beyond my wildest dreams. Skyping is something I get very, very rarely. Maybe once every month or two if I'm lucky, since his wife can't be around. I was hoping to see him once a month. Apparently, that is asking too much.

I had even told him that when H and I move in a few years, his city was on the list of places we were considering. He told me that he had mixed feelings about me moving there because he thought it increased the risk of his wife finding out about me. I kind of hit the roof in my response, because his sub is local, the other women he was seeing are local, and he still has a profile up on a dating site to meet whoever so how the fuck is all that okay but if I was local it would not be??? I really do want an answer to that one.

Right about now, all I want to do is cry and be held. But I'm alone and have a sick toddler to take care of so I'm not getting much self care in.

[dingedheart]

Since you can't separate the action from the consequences,

What makes you think I don't get it. You realize I've lived this right? My wife came to me and wanted to open up our marriage too so it's not like I don't have a frame of reference on this. I got the happy wife talk.

I get the team talk too when it comes to switching careers or things central to the team. But an example of how the team "think" can be be skewed to one partner would be in regards to dangerous or expensive hobbies. I think one could argue it starts out as being about the person. If I wanted become a professional golfer or a formula one race car driver in my spare time those decisions or "wants" start with me. My spouse or partner might not have any idea of the wonderful secondary benefits that will come their way down the road. Happiness or specifically my happiness might be just a word at that point.
Or the secondary costs god forbid .....loss of time, attention and perhaps money. So in either case both would be unknown at that point....ala all about the person.


Sure after the fact it they'd have a benefit to point to but going in ...NOT so much.


By the way after I can figure out how to get 2 kids through college I want to race vintage race cars. Would it be wrong to ask them to team up to make poor old dad happy :D


As for your other problem ....Ive been around a long time and guys in love or want to display their love tend to move heaven and earth to show those things. He's to busy to make a phone call? I don't think ever in my truck or car and not be on the phone. Thank god for Bluetooth. So he couldn't take one night off from kink to reconnect with you...that's stunning.


He told me that he had mixed feelings about me moving there because he thought it increased the risk of his wife finding out about me. I kind of hit the roof in my response, because his sub is local, the other women he was seeing are local, and he still has a profile up on a dating site to meet whoever so how the fuck is all that okay but if I was local it would not be???


I'm staying with Pro...slick ...real slick.