Cuddle Parties?

[CielDuMatin]

OK, more opinions from your truly, but I really would like to know if I am alone in how I feel about the Cuddle Parties that seem to be a semi-regular feature at Poly Conferences, etc.

They make it very obvious that these are there as a non-sexual cuddling and otherwise touching party. They are presented (to my observations) as a perfectly natural and normal part of what it is to be poly and go to conferences.

The idea of that level of intimacy with complete strangers seems utterly mind-boggling to me. I mean, I am a "huggy" person by nature, but only hug people that I know, trust not to take things the wrong way, and like. I wouldn't dream of getting into pyjamas and cuddling with someone I had just met.

I can imagine that for those who have had issues with intimacy, such a therapy could be quite useful, but based on poly folk I have met, this is a small portion of the poly population.

What do others feel about these types of events?

[hyperskeptic]

They are presented (to my observations) as a perfectly natural and normal part of what it is to be poly and go to conferences.

The idea of that level of intimacy with complete strangers seems utterly mind-boggling to me.

For what it's worth, my mind also boggles at the thought of cuddling with strangers.

I assume participation in such events is not a necessary condition for being poly. Otherwise, I'd have to turn in my membership card.

[nycindie]

Oy, don't get me started! I once went to a poly party held at the studio of a woman who also is involved in organizing Cuddle Parties in NYC and a few of the partygoers there were explaining why they like the Cuddle Parties... a perfect stranger, who hadn't even introduced himself to me yet, told me about his personal issues with touch and saying "no," even mentioning some issue with his mother, and how Cuddle Parties have helped him deal with intimacy with his partners, and it just felt so inappropriate and invasive for him to stand as close to me as he did and tell me such personal details. I knew that if he was that weird just talking to me at a cocktail party, I would not want to be in the situation of him approaching me for a cuddle at one of these things. You know, things like that can attract truly off-center folks just looking for connection or release, but I choose not to take part in that sort of environment.

I weighed in on the whole organized Cuddle Party thing in a few posts here. One was on a thread that River started about cuddling with friends, another was a response to seeing a Cuddle Party on the agenda for a poly event. Rather than repeat myself, I'll just quote:

But am I the only one who finds that Cuddle Party guy incredibly annoying? All he has is an art degree, but now he's a sex educator? Eh, he's like everyone else who comes out of the Landmark/Forum/EST, with that smooth yet arrogant confidence and the ability to convince people he's an expert. I guess it's because I'm older and have participated in "puppy piles," cuddling in groups, mostly in "New Age" or other situations, but we never had to pay for that! In NYC, those parties cost $35 or more and some of the people who I know go, are not anyone I would pay to be in the same room with me, much less touch me. He has found a way to really profit from something that us children of the 60s and 70s have been doing for a long while. And now the word "cuddle" has a different flavor. Ick.

I really dislike the whole idea of cuddle parties with strangers, 'cause I am sure at least some people are just pretending they want to keep it non-sexual and something inappropriate would happen. And that would piss me off. I don't think I could relax at all if I joined one.

Since learning about poly and discovering cuddle parties, I even find it a huge turn-off to hear (or read) grown-ups talking about cuddling. It's like the word is tainted for me now. I cannot explain it, but I get really irritated with the whole "cuddle movement," so to speak.

It's funny that the idea makes me uneasy because, back in the late 80s/early 90s, I did participate in what we called "puppy piles" with a close-knit group that I was connected with (we were all trained in an alternative healing modality) and it was wonderful. Basically, we all hugged each other in a pile together, but it was always within the context of certain gatherings we held within the community. But we all had a common language and a well-established basis of trust amongst the group. However, I wouldn't have gone and cuddled with any of those people on personal time outside of those workshops/celebrations, etc. We never called it cuddling.

...I think the fact that you have to pay for these commercially organized cuddle parties and it's a bunch of strangers from who-knows-where (in NYC they have Meetups for them - you just don't know who will show up. Did they bathe? Are they lecherous? You know, lots of potential for ickiness), whereas the puppy piles I took part in organically happened within an already defined and safe space or were loosely directed by people in the group that we all knew well and already trusted -- and these things never felt artificial.

It was never like, "Okay at 7:00 pm tonight, we're all gonna cuddle in a pile! So get ready and here are the rules." It was more like, all these practitioners of the type of bodywork I studied were there waiting for something (like a lesson or seminar) and someone suggested everyone all fall into a puppy pile. Or two people would be cradling each other on the carpeted floor and someone would join them, and then another, and another, and so on. And because it was in the spirit of the moment, and we were all friends, or most of us knew everyone, it felt good and was organic and respectful without anyone having to tell us to be respectful. No one would cop a feel (although we were all bodyworkers and very much into touching). And there was no time frame, so it broke up when it naturally happened. If the teacher came into the room, he or she would join in. If there were people there who didn't want to, they didn't. There would be laughter, groans, what-have-you, and it was always great.

It is something I remember very fondly. When I read/hear about these organized cuddle parties that ask for $40 I feel it is an aberration of something that was very special to me. I think an activity that us old hippies just organically and spontaneously did has been turned it into a big money maker and that bugs me. I also feel like the word "cuddle" has been made creepy, for some reason.

Let me just add that when I did throw myself into a puppy pile with friends, we were all fully dressed! I don't see the reason for wearing pajamas at these things.

Obviously, the whole idea of organized Cuddle Parties as therapy really irritates me.

[Pretzels]

Wait, they charge for these? That's beyond weird.

These hold no interest for me. I'd rather just get cuddly with my people. Maybe I'm just simple that way.

[AnotherConfused]

I like to touch strangers on the dance floor. It's a socially sanctioned, nonsexual form of touch. We dance for lots of reasons, including the exercise, the music, the friendships that form, the conversations, etc. but I can't pretend that I don't enjoy the hand holding and the dips and the swaying in each others' arms. We need human contact to thrive, and this is one form that I enjoy greatly. (I also enjoy dances with people I know well.)

I have never been to a cuddle party but I am guessing it serves a similar purpose. I would find it a little weird just to touch without the context of a dance or other goal, but if it works for some people it doesn't bother me. I'm not sure how it would be related to polyamory though, or the purpose in including it in a polyamory conference. Doesn't really have anything to do with love or relationships!

[Tonberry]

I would love to take part in a cuddle party, but only with my close friends. People don't always want to hug and cuddle, and I personally love it. When I moved back to France from the US, I hugged all the friends who ate out with me that evening, and since they were in a circle around me, I just kept going and hugged them a second time. Then it turned out everybody was going the same way, so I hugged them a third time when we went our separate ways.
I would have hugged them even more if I had found excuses too, and I would be hugging them that much every time I saw them if it was socially acceptable. I wish I could just ask for a cuddle party among us without everyone thinking I'm creepy or hitting on them.

This being said, I wouldn't mind hugging strangers, but I think I'd rather do it one at a time, it would be overwhelming to be touched from everywhere by people I don't know.

[PinkDragon]

I am very affectionate with my friends, family, kids, and partners.... everyone else better stay away or be prepared to get a bloody nub!

I have stepped back/away from people I don't know trying to hug me. I must say that I do feel bad for them when they realize that they've just made a huge faux pas, but I'm not going to make myself uncomfortable just to feed their need to hug.

All of that said... there is NO WAY I would cuddle with strangers!

[km34]

No cuddling with strangers for me! I'm not a big cuddler anyway, although I do enjoy having some minor touching (legs on someone's lap, their head on my lap, or something like that), but not full body contact very often!

[feelyunicorn]

What do others feel about these types of events?Likewise. In the words of Saul Bellow, "Potato love." :D

[Somegeezer]

All for cuddling, and would love to be cuddled with many. But complete strangers... Ergh. Not much more revolting than that, and I've seen the album cover to Dawn Of The Black Hearts =P [seriously don't look it up if easily offended, you were warned].

I don't at all like strangers near me, touching me, even breathing on me, without my consent. Start by talking to me like a normal human, at a comfortable distance, as to not have me smelling what you had for lunch 2 weeks ago.

Being close to those you love is completely amazing feeling... For me anyways. I know some people like their space even then. But I'm very much a cuddly type person with any partners I'm with. :p:D

[CielDuMatin]

So since I think everyone that has posted here has said that they wouldn't do it, why do you think that it is such a common part of these conferences? How is this connected to polyamory?

[nycindie]

So since I think everyone that has posted here has said that they wouldn't do it, why do you think that it is such a common part of these conferences? How is this connected to polyamory?
Simple. Because Reid Mihalko, the founder of the organized Cuddle Party biz, is poly and shows up at these conventions to give lectures or whatever. I'm sure if he lets them include a Cuddle Party for no extra fee at the poly cons, it will bring him more attention and potential customers. He also touts himself as a sex educator/expert, even though his degree is in art, and sells DVDs about how to have poly relationships and holds retreats and seminars on relationships (see: http://reidaboutsex.com/sexual-self-confidence/relationship-choice/polyamory/). So, he closely aligns himself with the organizers of poly conferences, and especially the sex-positive activist types... so - Voila! Cuddle Parties at every big poly event! Ugh. But I do believe many poly peeps are really into what he offers. It's like he's the poly/cuddle version of Tony Robbins. Both guys came out of Landmark (same thing as the Forum and EST).

[hyperskeptic]

Simple. Because Reid Mihalko, the founder of the organized Cuddle Party biz, is poly and shows up at these conventions to give lectures or whatever. I'm sure if he lets them include a Cuddle Party for no extra fee at the poly cons, it will bring him more attention and potential customers. He also touts himself as a sex educator/expert, even though his degree is in art, and sells DVDs about how to have poly relationships and holds retreats and seminars on relationships (see: http://reidaboutsex.com/sexual-self-confidence/relationship-choice/polyamory/). So, he closely aligns himself with the organizers of poly conferences, and especially the sex-positive activist types... so - Voila! Cuddle Parties at every big poly event! Ugh.

My, what a . . . um . . . cozy relationship!

But I do believe many poly peeps are really into what he offers..

Hm. I wonder, then, why so many on this forum were so quick to express such a strong distaste for such parties?

Some sort of self-selection is going on here, I guess.

Still, I'm with you on this: Ugh.

Too bad it gives cuddling in general a bad name!

[Xared]

I'm not opposed to the idea in general, and I'm not opposed to being physically close to people I just met. However, my interest would largely depend on the atmosphere and the rules.

For-profit commercial things at a convention I probably wouldn't be into. If there was a small cover charge to offset the cost of renting space or providing refreshments or something that would be fine, but setting up a cuddle orgy to make money seems somewhat creepy to me.

As for atmosphere, I would not be into it if it was a "by taking part you are consenting to cuddle with everyone here" kind of thing. I need to be asked first, and be free to decline, or to say "let's talk a bit first," and I wouldn't be comfortable unless others are free to do the same.

If these conditions are met it would probably be something I'd be into. If I ever chose to go to one, I'll have to do some research into the particular event before deciding to attend.

[AutumnalTone]

So since I think everyone that has posted here has said that they wouldn't do it, why do you think that it is such a common part of these conferences? How is this connected to polyamory?

I imagine they're common at conferences because there are folks who attend the conferences who enjoy them. Not everything at any conference is going to appeal to everybody, and cuddle parties are no different.

As for the folks posting here, those most likely to respond are those who have a strong negative reaction. Most folks likely won't care strong enough either way to respond.

I don't attend poly conventions, so I don't really care. On the larger topic of cuddle parties, I enjoy them--with or without strangers. I don't expect I'll ever pay to attend one, unless it's a couple of bucks to help cover space rent at a social gathering; paying for facilitators and such doesn't interest me.

[LotusesandRoses]

I'm a touchy feely person, but to me, there's something barbaric about going into a room full of people with the intention of snuggling with them. It's like showing up to a lobster restaurant already wearing a bib.

[drtalon]

The pajamas thing is weird and unnecessary, but cuddle parties seem fine to me otherwise.

I attended Reid's session at Loving More 2011 in Phila, and thought it was very good. That didn't include anything cuddle-related, but did include parts about consent and overcoming our own fears and shame about what we might want. I can see how some aspects of the cuddle-party concept are extensions of that.

It's possible I'm a bit of a Reid fanboy, and therefore, I don't see the uber-creepiness inherent in the system.

But, if there is something that you find creepy about the cuddle-party, why not suggest a way for it to be less creepy? What could be improved about them?

[hyperskeptic]

But, if there is something that you find creepy about the cuddle-party, why not suggest a way for it to be less creepy? What could be improved about them?

The whole idea of cuddle parties with strangers has so little appeal for me and, in its commercial versions, strikes me as so creepy and wrong-headed that there is no way to improve them, other than not having them.

But it's really not for me to tell people not to have them, or to tell organizers of poly conferences not to include them on the program.

So, I'll just not go.

(But then - and please don't hurt me for saying this! - I find the idea of a poly conference itself a little odd . . . but that would be another thread!)

[Tonberry]

I don't really thing it's creepy, just not for me.
The way to improve it for me (the way to make it so I'd be interested) was if it was only between people who are already close. But then why would you pay instead of just gathering together and hugging, since you're friends already? You don't need someone to do that for you.

[NovemberRain]

It's like he's the poly/cuddle version of Tony Robbins. Both guys came out of Landmark (same thing as the Forum and EST).

I'm pretty certain that Landmark is not what produced the force that is Tony Robbins. Jim Rohn was his first inspiration, and most of his shtick is straight from NLP.

BTW, I think professional cuddle parties are major ick. I've never been confronted with one; but grateful to read about it, so I know what to avoid. Spontaneous, or workshop cuddles, with people I know might be fine.

I agree with hyperskeptic, no way to improve that ick factor except to not do it.

[ImaginaryIllusion]

I'm not too familiar with Reid, and haven't been able to make too many (read any) conferences as yet. The cozy relationship between organizers is an interesting bit though.

I have been invited by proxy though to similar cuddle parties through some of the poly folk in Calgary. To date it hasn't been timely enough for me to make a decision about whether to try attendance or not. Freetime has spoken highly of them though.

I try not to be judgmental about things like ick factor and whatnot as I figure it's one of those things that's best left to every individual's own discretion. My personal feeling is that I'm generally wound way too tight and sensitive about my own personal space, that I have significant doubts that I would actually enjoy the experience. (Pretty much the same reason that I doubt I'll be jumping into an orgy anytime soon) But that's my shit to deal with.



I attended Reid's session at Loving More 2011 in Phila, and thought it was very good. That didn't include anything cuddle-related, but did include parts about consent and overcoming our own fears and shame about what we might want. I can see how some aspects of the cuddle-party concept are extensions of that.

This has been one thing about the cuddle parties that has me most intrigued, and why I think the experience, if it is as advertised, could be a very positive learning experience for a lot of people...not just poly's. The communications surrounding consent, asking for what you want, and particularly how to say "no" to the things you don't, as well as hearing and complying with those requests; I see no disadvantage to developing these skills no matter what lovestyle one lives.

If these events are indeed a forum for working on those skills and there's heavy interest by a segment of the community, I fail to see a problem with them being included as a part of poly-centric activities.

[lovefromgirl]

Tuppence a little late in the thread, but... I couldn't do a cuddle party because I'd walk away wondering what fresh microbe I'd just picked up. I'm a tidge envious of people who can catch colds/flus and not flinch; I'm useless for a week to ten days, and likely to be in intense pain during the height of the illness. (Fibro, you SUCK.) So my crappy immune system counts me out. I'd say that's a reasonable hard limit to have.

Otherwise, my main objection is that one man's cuddle is another man's surreptitious grope. If I feel it's inevitable that someone's just getting his jollies, and I'm also squicked by random hard-ons, I should probably not be paying to insert myself into that situation. Especially as I'm broke. I'd rather go to a club, where at least I can dance and have a drink if I like. Same risks to my health! More obvious expectations. Hard-ons are okay if I'm dancing with him, you know? But not if it's just a puppy pile, which, ew, infantilizing much? And crossing kiddie pursuits with adult ones is not what we need as a community. God, the slippery-slope nuts would have a field day.

[Somegeezer]

Tuppence a little late in the thread, but... I couldn't do a cuddle party because I'd walk away wondering what fresh microbe I'd just picked up. I'm a tidge envious of people who can catch colds/flus and not flinch; I'm useless for a week to ten days, and likely to be in intense pain during the height of the illness. (Fibro, you SUCK.) So my crappy immune system counts me out. I'd say that's a reasonable hard limit to have.

Otherwise, my main objection is that one man's cuddle is another man's surreptitious grope. If I feel it's inevitable that someone's just getting his jollies, and I'm also squicked by random hard-ons, I should probably not be paying to insert myself into that situation. Especially as I'm broke. I'd rather go to a club, where at least I can dance and have a drink if I like. Same risks to my health! More obvious expectations. Hard-ons are okay if I'm dancing with him, you know? But not if it's just a puppy pile, which, ew, infantilizing much? And crossing kiddie pursuits with adult ones is not what we need as a community. God, the slippery-slope nuts would have a field day.
I really don't understand where the paedophilia comes into this at all...:confused: I'm similarly bothered by other people and their dirtiness though. :p Even though, rather oddly, I'd be plenty fine with my own lovely coming down with the flu, and still want to cuddle with her. ^_^ The touching up with people I don't know is my main problem. I feel awkward just talking to some strangers. others just seem to make me feel comfortable right away with some kind of voodoo magic... XD Like I met my current partner at a gig, where I was avoising contact with most people. But she came up to me and asked to plait my hair. :p:rolleyes: and for some reason, I was ok with that. :D

[BrigidsDaughter]

I too don't understand where pedophilia comes in. I love cuddling, with my friends, my cat, my son, and my loves. Since when is cuddling a kiddie pursuit? Are we supposed to out grow that desire when we grow up? If no, I never got the memo.

[Tonberry]

I hug way more now than I did as a kid. Maybe they meant the term "puppy pile" is the childish part?

[RunicWolf]

I love cuddling. BrigidsDaughter likes to say I came with the cuddle expansion preimstalled. I also don't get sick very often, so that's never a consideration for me. When I do get sick it keeps me down for a day or two at most.

[CielDuMatin]

I really don't understand where the paedophilia comes into this at all...:confused: It doesn't. You just introduced the term right now in your post.

The comment was about how infantile the idea of a puppy pile is. It had nothing to do with having sex with children.

[turtleHeart]

If I didn't know many people I could be cuddly with, I'd be glad to have access to something like this, as touch is so important. Luckily I have quite a few people I'm close to on a day to day basis, so the idea of cuddling with strangers doesn't sound very appealing. It just depends on how hungry for affection someone is, and at this point in my life (in contrast to when I was in grade school and early in college) I'm quite happily sated.

[lovefromgirl]

"Cuddle party" and "puppy pile" both sound very young, yes. That is problematic to me.

Touch can be great! Touch is therapeutic! I once slept on a bed with several people because I was terrified of what the night was going to bring (switching meds, ugh). I have also happily sprawled across several friends while watching TV. It is what it is; it was what it was, more like. The need for a special name at all makes little sense to me.

[BrigidsDaughter]

I love cuddling. BrigidsDaughter likes to say I came with the cuddle expansion preimstalled. I also don't get sick very often, so that's never a consideration for me. When I do get sick it keeps me down for a day or two at most.

I am a big fan of the cuddle expansion. Though it didn't come pre-installed in Wendigo. It actually took several months to install, must have had a big update or something. ;)

[nycindie]

What is a "cuddle expansion?" Never heard the term before.

[Tonberry]

Expansions are programs you install that usually don't come pre-installed on whatever hardware you purchase. They're joking that the love for cuddles behaves like such a program.

[CielDuMatin]

Ah the geekdom derailment! LOL

[BrigidsDaughter]

I'm sorta hooked on The Sims. For The Sims and The Sims 2 I had all the expansion packs. It became an in joke among our friends. And yes, CielDuMatin, we are geeks, but then you already know that.

[Arrowbound]

Yeah... I think I'll pass on that kind of thing. It seems...odd.

[redpepper]

My job is one big cuddle party. No thanks. I give way too much to make that a good thing for me. I don't think I would be able to receive a cuddle in a circumstance where I am with strangers or even friends. It would just be too weird. Part of my personality maybe? I think so as I know some people that I would imagine the cuddle party revolving around them. I stick close to home and like it that way :)

I'm glad for this thread as I thought that cuddle parties were an expectation. I had no idea that there were poly people out there that would avoid as I would. I guess I never really thought about it. How about all the solitary cuddlers head over to a discussion group elsewhere and have a few drinks. ;) Leave the cuddle puddle folks to themselves... catch ya later kind of thing.

[CielDuMatin]

I guess I was really hoping that we would hear from a cross-section of folks - both those that don't care for these mass cuddle groups with strangers and those that love them. So far, it seems like the vast majority of folks that have responded don't care for them...

[nycindie]

Well, CdM, since your original Q was about the cuddle parties that are usually part of big poly conferences, now you have me wondering how many people here have actually been to a poly conference, anyway? Is that something that appeals to many folks, with or without cuddle parties?

[Tonberry]

Poly conferences do appeal to me greatly. I've never had the opportunity to go to one, but I'm hoping to in the future, once I have moved back to California.

[RainyGrlJenny]

I've been a part of a cuddle pile twice, both at events hosted by our lovely neighborhood sex-positive community center. I found them to be generally positive experiences.

I'm someone who is very comfortable touching other people, and I don't have any germ paranoia. :) I remember at one point, I was lying with my head on this woman's thigh, and she was playing with my hair. It was very soothing.

At no point did it feel sexualized, and I had no worries about groping or unsought erections or whatever. I don't think I would seek such parties out, or purposely pay to participate, but I would probably join in if I found myself in circumstances that lent themselves to participating.

I can see where a cuddle party could be very attractive to someone who really craves human touch (as I do) but who has a lack of it in their lives, either because they're single or because their partner(s) is not comfortable or desirous of a lot of touch. I'm lucky that both my partners are very physically affectionate people, because it would be difficult for me to maintain mental health without a certain level of touch in my life.

[redpepper]

What does one talk about a cuddle party exactly?

[temperance]

I love a good cuddle puddle with friends (usually girls) and my husband. Why, just last night we had one! I adore physical affection, but I don't think I'd be apt to participate in one with strangers. The appeal for me is intimacy that goes along with loving someone(s).