View Full Version : Stepping Out
04-14-2012, 01:30 AM
"do not follow where the path may lead. go instead where there is no path and leave a trail." - Emerson
this quote hangs in my CabinShack on the wall next to the ladder that leads up to the bed loft (the "Roost") from the main (and only) room. (i love this shack. except for having to hands-and-knees it around the Roost, it's my dreamhouse - complete with fireplace. bet it's not 600' sq. anyway....) i've had the plaque containing it for several years - was a birthday gift, and has always hung over the mantle or someplace apparent - but it's never jumped out and hit me, BLAZED for me, the way it has for the past few weeks of my life. now it seems like it's tattooed onto the muscle tissue of my heart; burned somewhere into my flesh.
i am just now beginning to live with the courage it will require for me to step out and live as a solo poly. and i feel ALIVE again with the energy that realizing this has brought to me.
i'm again delving into the things that once brought me joy (and coincidentally were things requiring much alone time), MOSTLY writing and recording songs.
no details in this post...i just had to start out by sharing this quote and the power that it has to inspire and motivate.
make your own path.
if you're not ready to do it yet, don't give up on the dream of doing so. give yourself time and care, hold the idea (however vague) of your ideal lifestyle somewhere inside you, and move step by tiny step in that direction.
there are powers cheering for you that you can't even begin to know.
all the best! and more later
04-14-2012, 03:14 PM
"Leap and the net will appear."
“Whatever you can do or dream you can, begin it. Boldness has genius, power and magic in it.”
More power to you. Lots more power to you. Nice writing, by the way. Tatoo on the heart?!?! Hells yeah!
04-14-2012, 05:17 PM
Thanks, Windstar! GREAT quotes, too - appreciate you sharing! the second half of the latter quote has always made my pulse quicken. SUCH GOOD STUFF.
best to you!
04-14-2012, 05:50 PM
I have had a quote on the front door to my apartment for... oh, probably 20 years (yes, I've lived in my apartment that long!) and I love it:
The essential conditions of everything you do must be choice, love, passion.
~ Nadia Boulanger
04-15-2012, 02:15 AM
make your own path.
if you're not ready to do it yet, don't give up on the dream of doing so. give yourself time and care, hold the idea (however vague) of your ideal lifestyle somewhere inside you, and move step by tiny step in that direction.
there are powers cheering for you that you can't even begin to know.
Nice start! I've always been a fan of the road less traveled. In high school, I was able to choose between two schools. I chose the one where I could take braille lessons because I found it interesting. (never had any desire to be a transcriptionist, I just thought it would broaden my life ~ and boy did it)
You go grrrl!
04-15-2012, 06:35 PM
thanks for the underlining and reaffirmation, fellowfolk. when you feel like you're out on a limb, it's always nice to hear how others have been out on their own, survived, and come out to thrive on the other side.
after mutually splitting with Z a week ago friday (with the intention of getting clear about what i want/how i want to live and gathering the courage to communicate with him honestly about it), it's been a little over a week's worth of constant affirmation that i've made the right choice at this point. we actually spent a good amount of time together this past week (doing "just friends" stuff, if you will), and then this last friday afternoon, we came upon an opportunity to talk, for me to lay it all out for him, no-holds barred. this has never been easy for me, when what i want clashes in any way with what someone so close to me wants - i've often just "gone along for the ride" in order to keep the peace, or make someone happy, or to keep myself from feeling like shit when their judgment comes down on me - i'm a pleaser from way back, and as much of it has been detrimental to my well-being as it has been good for me and others involved.
the fear i'd had previously - that i was going to lose him from my life altogether, or that he was going to see me differently - didn't hold me back from telling him that i didn't want to lose him as my best friend and lover even though i was not going to dedicate my time/energy to "making a relationship work;" was not going to force this relationship (or any other) to fit a previously ascribed model which had never worked for me before and whose box-walls i felt no desire to live inside anyway; and wanted both of us to feel free to pursue (or be pursued by) whatever may cross our paths and spark a hint of deep interest, resonance, intrigue, desire, etc.
in short, i have chosen to live in a way that will allow me to consciously remain open to any and all possibilities that i may find attractive, and i asked that he allow himself to do the same if he so chose. this was AFTER we'd spent a half-hour exquisitely pleasuring each other - i LOVE to touch him, tease him, make him feel good, and see his face/feel his body respond when i can do so. he says i get him higher than anything ever has, and while i know he's exaggerating, his brain-to-mouth channel also has no filter, so it's not hard to tell when he is really, REALLY ecstatic. putting him there puts me there. and he is SO sweet, tender, and caring in return...very simply put, we make a GREAT team, great partners. our needs and desires in this area coincide magically; sometimes it feels like we were designed with each other in mind. LOVE it. :) he said yesterday, "sometimes i think you came into my life just to stroke all my little pleasure glands, and i didn't know it until we had already crossed the line." (LOL - i agree wholeheartedly, sir.)
we parted ways early that evening, each to hang out with friends and enjoy our friday nights, and as fate would have it, i wound up having a couple of drinks with J, my ex, for whom i also have very tender feelings.
J and i hooked up 5 or 6 years ago as he was going through a divorce - not ugly, but very unwanted. (J, his wife, Z, his gf at the time, and i were all friends at the time, though they had all known each other years longer than i'd known any of them. Z, J, and i were also in a band together at that point.) the way and reasons J and i came together at that point stemmed much from my need/desire to shelter and take care of him, and his own needs to be that partner/father figure in someone's (my) life as well. he had known he was attracted to me before his marriage began to split, and he kept a very "proper" distance between us at that point. (he told me later; i didn't realize that to be the case at the time.) he/they were pretty quiet about the divorce and proceedings; most of us didn't even realize it was happening until he was served with papers, and when i found out, i realized why he'd looked and been acting differently. he's a very tall and slender man anyway, well-built, just very lean, but i realized at that point that his beautiful face had actually been hollowing lately, his eyes more tired and devoid of spark, and he didn't hang out with the band so much, preferring to stay pretty quiet and just pack up gear and leave afterward, while the rest of us had a drink or two and chatted together.
it was at that point that i realized i'd found him physically attractive all along, and when i saw his need for company, support, shelter, and reassurance - he needed love right then at that point - i found myself falling all-in. it was like it became one of the main purposes in my life at that point to make a nest of my heart, house, and arms for him to find refuge in. it was all i wanted to do.
not entirely healthy or clearsighted, i know - but it filled me with life and passion (not that i was lacking in vim & vigor at that point) to do this with/for him, to merge our lives in some ways. didn't take me long to realize i was truly in love with him, that i cared very much for his happiness and well-being, and that i wanted to share a lot of my life with him. we spent the next couple of years in relative happiness together. no doubt we loved each other dearly & deeply, but the discrepancies in who we were and how we wanted to live showed up. NOT TO MENTION the fact that he'd barely had time or room to grieve over or deal with his loss and come to grips with his divorce or his ex-wife (who is a dear friend of mine), who had in the meantime realized that she felt she had made a mistake in her handling of the whole divorce situation.
she initially been "ostracized" from their little clan/circle of friends (one or two i found later to be very harshly judgmental as well as hypocritical, i'll take the liberty of adding), and i kind of felt like shit for hooking up with J without having spoken to her about the matter at all. i selfishly swept the whole mess of feelings concerning her under the rug at that point, because i was in deep with J and mostly didn't want to deal with the matter. i felt for her; the couple of random times i'd see her out and about, i could almost read it in her eyes that what had happened had NOT gone as intended. i guessed she'd needed to put big distance between herself and J as well as the tight clan; she is a pleaser as much as myself - maybe moreso in certain lights - and had probably lost some sense of identity in always going with the decisions of the crowd. i had a pretty good idea where she was coming from. she's a beautiful woman with a big heart and a big appetite for fun and friends; J can be more of a hermit because of his more negative self-image. i think they clashed here, and she got too much of it; needed out. things just didn't go down well.
anyway...she and i started hanging out again, talking, and (this is from my point of view) that was one step toward The Clan's re-welcoming her. (it was inevitable, but she shouldn't have been ostracized anyway, imho.) eventually J began to hang out with the two of us upon occasion, and i always felt really good when this would happen - like, my heart swelled a little, to see them able to connect again on some level. it was obvious that they made good partners and friends, being into many of the same things and being able to speak a lot of the same "languages." eventually everything was pretty cool between them and the rest of the Clan, and people stopped making a big deal about it all.
fast-fwd to two years ago, when i was fully realizing that my relationship with J was limiting me to living in a box and trying to please The Clan myself. i loved him very much, was still in love with him on some levels, but every aspect of me was straining at the chains that held me to the ground. J and i still wanted to be each other's shelter, but i was finding that my wings were big and i felt strong in my passion for life and transcendence of fear, and i didn't really need shelter anymore. or it sure wasn't an overarching need/theme in my life at this point - i was ready to jump off cliffs and keep building my wings on the way down. i LOVED connecting with people - a lot of them, and all different kinds - and J would rather stay home. we didn't like to do a lot of the same things together after all. talk, chat, verbal connection was often debate anymore, and i wasn't on the same page with him - i wanted to find common ground with people, especially this man. i wanted to ENJOY doing things together with him...problem was, we were finding out (tho neither of us wanted to acknowledge) that we just didn't have so much in common. i felt he was living from a fear-based viewpoint, and i wanted to reaffirm and expand my own life-is-huge-short-and-beautiful viewpoint. i wanted to DO stuff. jump in and learn to swim. there was a lot of frustration between us.
that's when Z and i hit it off. like a match to gasoline, it was said. (oddly enough, we both texted each other the same thing at one point: "who had the match, and who brought the gas?!" it was almost verbatim.) he and his gf and been basically finished with their relationship for nearly two years at that point, and (again, imho) neither one of them wanted to pull the ripcord to begin the painful untwining of two merged lives. it began with sexual and SENSUAL sparks that bloomed into awareness of a lot of common ground between us.
it did not go down well, either. the first year was hell, as our haste in our actions caused a similar and fully-loaded split in The Clan yet AGAIN, as J was hurt AGAIN (in basically the same way), and as a lot of guilt, shame, anger, and fear was doled out and passed around. good things subsequently came of it: some old hatchets were buried, old friend-splits mended, etc; but a lot of shit came out of it, too....
04-15-2012, 06:36 PM
(con't from prev. post)
guilt has had its presiding place in my programming for longer than i can know. i was raised very conservatively and into a dutifully-followed, oppressive, guilt/fear-based western religion. what shit wasn't shoveled onto me during The Fallout by angry, judgmental, and some hypocritical parties (i/we made a very convenient scapegoat for some who merely needed to point the spotlight in a direction other than their own heaving, filled-to-bursting dark closets), i shoveled onto myself. the foundation was already laid; at two points during the first 8 months, i found myself on the bathroom floor, suicidal. i hadn't wanted to leave J for Z, not per se, but i felt so ashamed of the pain i'd "inflicted" upon J that i decided to lay in the bed/grave i'd made for myself rather than stir up more shit or hurt anyone else. i was not happy. i was not living. i was a zombie. i learned that Broken Heart Syndrome is an actual medical condition that often feels like you're having a heart attack. i didn't sleep (i've never been an insomniac), i cried daily for weeks at a time, i became borderline alcoholic. for a while, i didn't think i deserved to live - and i didn't know what i WAS still living for.
and i never told Z the full truth of it until later. i tried to put up a good front, be a trooper, squash my feelings, hide, force myself to conform, etc. you name it, i tried it. when all i should've done was follow my gut, get out of the relationship with Z, and spend as long as it took (months) on my own, hiding out and healing. i just couldn't do it. "you made your bed; you lie in it."
people....please never do this. if you're doing it now, for any reason, realize that you're just fucking yourself and your life up further. there is NO GOOD REASON for the hell you're putting yourself through.
fast-forward to now.
time IS a healer. eventually i came out of it. there was a lot of very confusing back-&-forth, in&out between me and Z; plenty of pulling away and hiding (later, when i respected myself enough to allow myself the space), and eventually i pulled through and saw the sky again. (literally. sometimes the only thing that kept me breathing was lying out in the yard or the park and listening to the wind through the tree leaves, watching the clouds in the sky pass over slowly, and thinking how small and insignificant all this was in the big scheme of things - that no one was going to die as a direct result of any of these decisions i was making or needed yet to make.)
it was at this point i started realizing that Z and i DID have a lot of fun together. we DID have a lot in common. and he, being a very strong, bold, opinionated and outspoken creature, was starting to rub off on my week, "wishy-washy", just-nod-your-head ways. his influence in my life was helping me to build the courage i'd always needed just to live my life in the ways i'd (vaguely) dreamed. he was GOOD for me. no, it didn't mean i had to try and force myself to feel certain ways about him. no, i didn't have to act like the perfect gf when all i wanted to do was tell anyone who spoke about "commitment" and exclusivity to shove the fuck off. (!!!) it didn't mean i had to kiss him when i didn't feel like it, or try to reciprocate feelings when they just weren't there.
i started going with the flow of how i felt. turned out i really liked having him in my life, even if i didn't want to wear the label of "girlfriend." (it's a mental thing for me - just having the label slapped on something tends to cause me to try to fit the mold or model. old programming. working on it. :) ) i loved touching/teasing/fucking/pleasing/loving him - even if i didn't necessarily feel "in love" with him, even if i didn't NEEEEEEED him ("or i'll die!"), even if enough of the time i'd rather be without him, alone, or with friends, or even spend a little time with my ex(es).
i LOVE Z. and i don't have to have him. i just want him to be happy, like I want to be happy, and to share the parts of our lives that it makes us happy to share. what's wrong with that?! why does it need a label? who says it needs to fit certain criteria, or that it lacks anything?
it's perfect the way it is, and it simply is what it is.
i know this post has still left holes in "the story." if you've read this far, i want to apologize for the fact that the post could easily rival War & Peace in length (and boredom potential), as well as to THANK YOU SO MUCH for reading it at all (or at least skimming!).
community of this kind and these interests is hard to find 'round these parts... it's really good to be able to put all my cards on the table with people who have, in some way, been there before (and/or are there now).
i seriously welcome any discourse: questions, suggestions, good books, good quotes, any kind of inspiration/motivation, similar stories, as long as it's honest.
go enjoy your day!
04-16-2012, 02:26 AM
Thank you for taking the time to write these last two posts. There were several things that resonated with me and were good for me to read right now, even though our circumstances are different.
04-29-2012, 03:15 PM
i'm realizing lately that i withdraw and close off emotionally as a result of feeling slighted, accused, dismissed, confronted....basically threatened in any way. also, as one who grew up a passive pleaser/peacemaker ("at all costs!"), that it doesn't take much for me to feel threatened.
this is a pretty broad topic, but in my life, it has its own links to being poly, so i go ahead and ask -
04-30-2012, 04:40 AM
uh, yah. That was me. I like to think I'm changing, but it takes a fair amount of attention from me to do so. I've managed to choose some men who love me even when I'm crazy. Some call them detached. I don't know. What I know, is that they show up for me consistently. Not always when I want, but almost always when I need. They just keep loving me no matter what.
When I was living with CurrentBoyfriend, he showed me by example how to keep loving, even if/when you're mad/hurt/slighted whatever. Because he was so kind, I made conscious effort to be kind. 'I'm mad at you, and I'm still going to choose to act in a loving manner.'
It's an interesting journey.
If you're a reader, you might find David Deida's work interesting. He talks a lot about women opening.
04-30-2012, 09:48 PM
i AM a reader; i'll check him out. thanks for the tip!
05-01-2012, 01:42 PM
i debated deleting - or at least editing - those last LONG posts basically explaining the mess/journey of my last two years. idk if laying it all out is TMI to anyone or not, but i appreciate being able to do that. i needed it.
so Z and i have been, since the last "big talk" and card-showing a few weeks ago, really close, and it's been great. i think we're both feeling pretty secure in the place we've both agreed to be, and now i'm feeling that inner urge to get out and test my legs some. have a pretty casual get-together with J this evening (it's a job function for him), and think i'll call an older friend for drinks and a night out downtown later this week.
sometimes i feel like i could eat Z up and lick my chops for more - it feels like it's all there, the desire, the intimacy of knowing each other, the pure animal lust, the sweetness of friendship, and i think, "wow....yeah." and then it's like my mind (programming) starts leaning toward the mono thing, trying to put what we have in a box, make it fit the old model....like, "hey...you COULD spend the rest of your life with this guy. you could make this work." and after a minute - or a day - of subconsciously herding us in that direction, projecting the possibility of the mono model on our relationship, of prepping to stuff it in that box and try to make it fit, i hear the record scratch -
"MAKE" it FIT. WTF.
i snap out of it every time, about the time i find myself getting irritated with something he has every right to do, or just some little difference between us. i find myself getting bent out of shape a little, subsequently withdrawing, and then realize, "oh - this is why our arrangement WORKS for us. this is why we have two separate households. this is another great reason we are best friends and not married, and we don't NEED to be!" etc.
once i snap out of it and settle back into being myself again instead of trying to be half of him, things improve immediately. i can't help but laugh out loud most of the time this happens.
ALSO.... "being friends", having a little more distance/space between us to let our lives move independently, letting some of the mystery live and breathe between us, not having to coordinate schedules or living quarters or tendencies, i find myself more sexually attracted to him. took me nearly 30 years to realize that i can love someone very deeply, but familiarity with that same person can really reduce arousal for me. (i couldn't even admit that to myself for a long time because i judged myself harshly for it, like there was something wrong with me - i thought i was shallow and user of people for it.)
meantime...J has hinted at taking a vacation to seattle, probably while he's on summer break. (he's a teacher.) i was immediately tempted, and immediately thought to myself that i shouldn't go; he and i still have a lot to discuss as far as the lifestyle i've chosen vs. what he wants for himself, and how Z fits into my picture as well. but...i was/am really tempted. it could be a lot of fun...maybe in 6 months, closer to my bday, and once everything has had a chance to settle a little, and all of us to acclimate....
sometimes i think too much, and miss out because i'm afraid of acting and hurting someone.
other times, i act, and ride the dragon, and have moments and experiences i'll never forget and wouldn't want to live without - but my actions cause people to hurt in the process....
i hope there's a beautiful balance. am making my own path toward that vision with open heart and careful hands and tongue....
05-11-2012, 01:58 PM
FIRST: i want to say "thank you" to everybody who posts anywhere in this forum. i've been reading threads all over for a couple of months now, and it's helped me to see that the Human Spectrum is way bigger than i thought - which is really relieving in some ways.
have been reading on asexuality as much as poly lately....i think i can be asexual for weeks (maybe months) at a time, while being emotionally poly and wanting to cuddle up with two or three at a time.... :)
so i hung out with j (the ex) last sunday. we met at our Jimmy's Egg and went back to his place after. he rode my new motorcycle, then we sat out on the back drive/porch and had beers and talked.
i asked him if he'd ever considered open relationships. his reply was basically that being with someone he wants to be with makes him feel special, and if his partner is with him one night and another person the next night, he feels way less special - sorta like one face of many...part of a harem? i understand. i knew he felt that way, and i knew that his intimate relationships are a big part of his self-confidence. (can't say mine aren't...but i swing back & forth, from being confident in my own company to being confident in identifying with a certain group or individual...if that makes any sense.)
as i understand, he's always had lower-than-average self-esteem, and he sometimes overcompensates for that by coming across as arrogant. these are my words and my opinion, but sometimes he wears a self-righteous attitude to armor and disguise his feelings of vulnerability and inferiority.
he's never looked in the mirror and seen himself as attractive, handsome, beautiful (i've always seen him as all these things, much moreso when he's happy and loving), and he's often said that our being together made him feel those things about himself - which is both good and not, i suppose.
he said sunday, "i know you're not sure what you want, and i understand you're feeling your way around right now and you don't want to hurt anybody while you're doing that. i'm not sure exactly what your circumstances are right now, and i don't think i want to...." i wondered how much i should say at that point: lay it all out for him anyway, in order to fulfill my sense of responsibility to both/all of us (me, him, Z)? or leave it where it is, and just answer questions as they're asked, or bring up specific topics as i feel the need to?
we talked about some other things, things i hadn't been able to communicate with him about when we were together, or two years ago when we were splitting up (oh, the hell of that fallout...) we decided to start all over. we're both happy where we are, with our lives, our lives & careers are on good tracks, and we each feel like (in his words) we'd be fine without the other in our lives, for the rest of our lives, but we'd be better with the other's presence - it would make the whole living experience richer, for whatever length of time it lasts as a friendship or anything else.
then we spent three hours on the couch, snuggling some and playing a video game. it was a relieving, happy, reuniting day.
now comes what i see as a problem: even though Z and i have agreed to be bestFWB, we've still spent a lot of time together in the month since, and i know that if/when i start spending more time with J or other people, it's going to sting a little. he may retreat; he may be mad or hurt; he may feel that the fact that not much has changed since the discussion meant that i didn't really want things to be the way i said i did. i know i can't do anything about how he feels except be open to and there for him.... but the fear that i'll alienate him (or fear of even just the conflict/tension it could put between us) snags at my heart and spirit. it slows me acting upon what i want, sometimes stops me altogether.
i was riding high off the feelings of freedom and joy that came when we had our talk a month or so ago, and just knowing that i had the space and "permission" to move in any direction i wanted made me float off the ground. i also felt very grateful and attached (wtf?!) to Z for being the kind of man who could hear me out, understand, and agree to let things be this way. it's like i severed a tie that ached to be cut, and now i'm leaning back toward the ball i was chained to, the freedom making me giddy and seeing him through rose-colored glasses for several weeks afterward.
now that i'm attempting to repair some connections that were severely damaged, as well as to form new ones, the experiences and feelings of expansion are often very satisfying, but i feel too like i'm leaving him behind some....
i know he would be mono and very committed to me if i chose to be the same. he is that way anyway. ("i'm pretty much a one-woman man and happy that way.") which is fine, and we aired all this a while back, but guilt has long been a big hangup for me, and i find myself choosing inertia over initiation sometimes, just so i won't hurt him ("or anyone else")....and subsequently feeling unfulfilled, stagnant, resentful, and sometimes careless as a result.
sometimes i feel like lovefromgirl said in one of her posts: "i could just be extra! and cute! you could both (all) love me if you wanted!" i wouldn't mind curling up on the rug in the living room and being petted, catlike. i could totally play house for two, three, or several, for days at a time, but not ALL the time or every day. i love serving and making people feel really good. it makes me glow. :) i could be your personal bartender, masseuse, dishwasher, homemaker/keeper, court composer, part-time lover, good friend, riding partner (horses, motorcycles, other things) - and i could be his and his and hers as well - and keep my own home, having as much time to myself and giving you plenty of time with other people you like and love - and be perfectly happy with my life!
better take a breath.... :)
mostly my issue right now is how to overcome the inertia that stems from not wanting to hurt people.... i have not been a good communicator in the past, and i still have the tendency to keep my feelings to myself if i think it will influence someone i love to move in the opposite direction of me. is that an abandonment issue? i dunno.
am realizing i'm still quite a baby. =/
05-11-2012, 02:20 PM
tough that J wont be okay with you being poly. that seems like the biggest issue from my perspective. You cant ever count on anyone changing for you, and you cant change anyone. So unfortunately it simply could boil down to either choosing him or choosing poly. or maybe you choose him for a while and know you are going to be poly after him. so many people are "poly" over time....e.g. they get their multiple relationships simply by having one after another but never two at the same time.
so you were with z and he would be mono with you but now you are okay being poly, and now j is there and he doesnt want u to be poly. i hate how hard it is for people to even hear about poly. the concept is just so unknown by most people.
when i met my wife i was up front with her about being poly, but the truth of it was that i wanted her more than i wanted a poly life. so i married her, but she knew my mind and respected my ideas and agreed with them in theory at least. that made me feel comfortable enough to marry her.
i couldnt imagine marrying her if she completely disagreed with my ideas. so good luck with making your decision with J. it's coming up for you again.
you could try an experiment with him. something like, "how about we try out just one or two months (you decide what you propose) of being together with me being poly, and lets see how it goes. then lets sit down and talk about everything and go from there. i dont think it will be as bad as you imagine, because im going to work very hard to show you how honest and considerate i can be about it. then when we talk at the end if it just isnt working, then revert to where you stand now with him.
05-11-2012, 02:43 PM
i think the "lines" look a little clearer from the outside, Windstar, but inside it feels like a soup to me. i'm not good at distinguishing (or admitting to myself, maybe? not like i WANT to be in any kind of denial, self- or otherwise - i think it's just been a survival technique for me from very young days) the differences between how i feel for different people sometimes.
i want to be open to possibility more than i want to be "with" any person at this point.
i feel like those looking on see it as selfish and sometimes careless. i want to be neither. i don't want to hurt ANYBODY....i know, though, that people simply WILL BE HURT as a result of someone else's (or my) actions/decisions at times. it's inevitable, but the fact is that i dwell on it too much. even Z will tell me this - he is an admitted worrier, but he is also all about diving into life and living it, experiencing it, to the fullest - and i both admire him for it and remain in slight awe sometimes.
lately i find my mind centering on this question:
IF I LET GO OF EVERY "SHOULD" AND "OUGHT TO" that exerted its will inside me, and found and followed the tendencies and thread of my heart and spirit...where would i be? what would i be doing? if i ignored the fear?
going to have to find out, or stay in the hamster wheel to whatever degree.
05-20-2012, 07:52 PM
been a minute since i posted.
i move pretty slowly these days...want everybody to be on the same page if possible, no scary surprises or upsets if i/we can help it...no hurt feelings for no good reason...so (to quote TruckerPete) i'm pretty much "practicing" poly instead of living it for the time being. or maybe i should say it's more emotional and theoretical than it is physical at this point.
this being the case, i wonder if anybody cares to read the developing life story of a newbie who's still in the getting-her-toes-wet stages. ;) i will say that it IS nice to be able to read other's blogs and threads; i appreciate the fact that all of you who do take the time out to post, and give me a chance to use your experiences as guidelines to forging my own path . *thank you*
so...J and i have been getting together for a meal and some hangtime (which includes cuddling/snuggling and plenty of affection but no sex) at least once a week for over a month now. it's been really nice. being able to do this has stemmed from my admitting that i never lost feelings for him, but just developed feelings for Z, and his admitting that he can see why i left in the first place. he said he wants to just start all over with me as friends, and although he would like for it to become more, he will take me as i come, he will be honest with me, and even though (we've recently addressed this) it makes him angry when i talk more than just surface details about Z and our relationship (best FWB at this point), he knows he needs to hear it and that we need to talk about it. he knows he needs to deal with it because it's a very real and daily part of my life and who i am.
J has not dealt with or forgiven Z (i am not sure how much needs forgiving at this point, as to my (limited) understanding, Z has both apologized and tried to give J the truth of what happened and how it happened between the two - and three - of us from day one, two-ish years ago). to J's understanding, i have shown that i value our relationship (mine & J's) because, through and beyond our messy breakup, i made and kept contact as best i could, tried to explain upon multiple occasions how and why it all happened and how i felt, showed concern for his feelings and well-being, and because he could tell how bad it all made me feel. (now, imho, J can be a bit of a passive-aggressive ego/power-player and a victim when he chooses to. it's old learned behavior that he reverts to - survival mechanism stuff. i SEE it but only choose to point it out when i feel it's necessary.) J feels that if Z truly valued their (15-ish y/o) friendship (and it WAS very close in times past), that he would feel as bad as i and basically put on sackcloth and come grovelling as well. (a slight exaggeration, but i do feel J wants a(nother) formal apology as well as possibly public acknowledgement that he was "in the right" in this whole situation - which he is not going to get from Z, and i both understand why and agree.)
Z, on the other hand, has no real animosity toward J, save that he believes (sometimes correctly) that J would like him to "die in a fiery car accident". the only thing that really makes Z prickly concerning J - and he doesn't mind being vocal about it and then getting past it - is when i occasionally compare the two of them aloud (often offhandedly). or when he used to get the vibe that i might want to go back to J and try to work out that relationship.
damn - i use a lot of parenthetical phrases. (don't i?) :D
just this past week, i checked out "One Big Happy Family" (Rebecca Walker) and "Stranger in a Strange Land" (Heinlein *duh*). am part way thru both and very engaged in each....
am realizing that part of what i'm trying to do (subconsciously?) is to form my own family. from CHOSEN members instead of luck-of-the-draw blood kin.
don't get me wrong - i LOVE my blood family. am also glad i don't have to live with most of them. it suits me fine to go home once every couple/few months and hang out for a day or the whole weekend.
i love and greatly appreciate my roots, but i love the wings that my being an autonomic individual gives me as well. and i feel that i could not have one without the other.
i could see myself in a vee with Z and J...an arrangement that is not likely to happen, but there is always a chance. i am not putting all my eggs in that chance-basket, but i did read somewhere a quote that sticks with me:
ENCOURAGE YOUR HOPES, NOT YOUR FEARS.
i love them both as whole people, and i don't want to live with or be "wife" or even particularly "girlfriend" to either one of them (though i feel i could possibly be "girlfriend" to both of them, if we could reach such an agreement). i feel i could go a long way toward mutually loving, satisfying, and meeting needs with both of them, and getting that in return. the "feeler" part of me says that could work really well. the "thinker" part of me wonders how in the hell i came to that conclusion, seeing as how they're both admittedly mono (although each has allowed some lenience in that, simply in understanding that i feel i am NOT and in knowing that i COULD like to share - and emotionally, already am and have been all along), as well as looking at the wedge that was driven (albeit unequally) between them during the whole discovery/deceit/fallout/breakup process.
another part of it is this: i THINK i'd be fine with them each seeing/being with other people, too. i trust both to be careful with their/our health sexually, and i am comfortable with the fact that "you have to give it to get it." i think i would be fine (and maybe very happy!) meeting a metamour "belonging to" either. loving both of them (and others) deeply, similarly, with no need for qualification/quantification thereof, i think i could put myself in their shoes pretty well when coming face to face with a third (fifth?) in our party... BUT i won't know that until and unless it happens. (LOL - so let's get it happening already! :) ) *eager to learn*
also...i have yet to tell Z all about these feelings. he knows that i still love J, that i'll always love J and have deep feelings for him. he knows we've been hanging out much more often - and being able to do this with J has led me to feeling happier when i spend time with Z. not sure how to say it - i tend to be a beater-around-the-bush, to think too much and also provide too much information when sometimes people just need the grit and core of a topic.
do i just open it up bluntly? "you know i love you, and i want you to be happy, and i want to support you fully in living the life you most want to live. i don't want to move backwards or distance myself in any way with you, but i've been happy to hang out with J again lately, and i feel i could be very happy to be with him in some of these same ways, to be sexual again with him. but i don't want to start back up with the same kind of exclusive or (progressing-toward-exclusive) relationship we used to have. i want to love you both."
part of me rolls her eyes and gives myself a facepalm, because i'm pretty sure these are words Z has maybe been afraid of hearing from the beginning. also, as much as i guilt-trip sometimes, am feeling selfish for even thinking of asking. (though this won't stop me from barrelling through, eventually.)
05-20-2012, 08:21 PM
oh - more:
there's a gorgeous, petite, short-haired blonde poet and yoga teacher with big dark doe eyes, two beautiful kids, a newish boyfriend in the mix, and a chocolate-&-red-wine sweet singing voice who has been a growing-closer friend of mine for over a year now. she was just prior to divorcing from a 12-yr marriage and i was entering breakup/fallout mode when we met - so we were prime candidates for a fast friendship.
we are just distant enough from each others' daily lives and know very few of each other's families or "involved parties" that we can be unbiased listeners and sounding boards, so that has been really beneficial and therapeutic. by now we feel familiar with each other. last time we were together, we met up at a nearby wine bar/restaurant, and after a couple glasses of wine and a meal, we moved to the bar to listen to the local singer-songwriter doing her thing. conversation moved to areas that we hadn't really delved into previously: dalliances, shadowy relationships, experiences & questions from our past years. sharing these kinds of things with friends who are willing to be just as vulnerable and basically "tell stories" on themselves right along with you has always brought me closer to people - we each feel we trust each other with potentially sensitive information. that evening was no different.
let me put this out there: i've never been sexually attracted to a woman. blown away by a woman's beauty, and/or confidence, or power, or a combo of all the above? sure. bi-amorous? possibly. bisexual? probably not.
so...i'll call her Sprite, because she's TINY - probably 30lbs less and a foot shorter (no exaggeration) than i am. we've had a few glasses of wine and are starting on our second beers. Sprite leans back on me and casually puts an elbow on my leg, letting her weight rest backwards on me while engaged in observing the singer. (we both write and sing, we have that very much in common.) minute or two later, she pulls upright and sips her beer. we share a joke & laugh about something. later, more of the same. her hand rests on my leg, warmly. we leave the bar, and neither of us is done for the night. while we walk to the car, deciding where to go next, she reaches out for my hand and laces her fingers in mine, smiling at me. not trying to be subtle or testing the waters, just an "i'm with you; let's go" type of gesture.
me, i love it. but i'm also nervous. like, what does she think, what does she want, what do i do, what do i want, what do i think, what am i doing?! type of nervous. (LOL, i know. i'm a moron.) so we wind up at a retro-lounge where one of my friends is playing, and she loves it. we have so much fun, dancing and goofing off together. and later she wants to kiss me. i feel like, "why not?!" but i'm so used to kissing a man that i feel i'm rough and a little messy. i've made out with a woman a couple of times, but it was always semi-drunken experimentation. (i'm sure that's what this SOUNDS like at this point.) afterwards, i blubber, "i'm sorry, i really don't know what i'm doing." tell her i feel protective of her but not possessive at all, that she's beautiful, that i love hanging out with her, that it feels great when she gives me those "i'm with you" signals when we spend an evening together.
she basically tells me that she's never been with a woman, but the ways we are connecting that night just feel natural to her with me, and if it freaks me out, we don't need to go there, she just likes hanging with me, period. it can be whatever we want it to be. i think we both end the night really happy and having had fun together. LOL at least i did!
we close the bar down and go to our respective homes. she texts me when she gets home at my request, so i'll know she's home safe.
next day, i tell Z about it. he's known all along we have some kind of little "thing" for each other, and also that i don't particularly feel a sexual attraction to her, but some strong feelings of other sorts, that i really care about her. when i tell him we kissed, i feel him stiffen. he asks who initiated it. (lol - boys.) it was mutual, i say. tell him all about it, and i feel him relax. we laugh about it afterwards, and as far as i can tell at this point, he doesn't feel any threat at the thought of Sprite. now i find myself wondering if he's got threesomes on his mind....
anyway - i had to share that. it was a very cool night. ;)
05-27-2012, 04:31 PM
an old interest comes back into the picture. it's making me think. more.
i've had "daddy issues" (not severe or debilitating, by any means) forever. so what. but am trying to figure out why i want the lifestyle i want.
more emotio-intellectual retching...most of this is stream-of-consciousness and possibly just fantasy. but i'm going to fantasize out loud, on-page anyway.
it seems there's a thread of sexual possibility in most friendships i have. but i don't want to fuck every friend i have. but i want to feel that i COULD fuck any friend i have (if it was mutual) without royally pissing off anyone super-important to me. if a connection naturally extends into sexuality, cool.
i don't want to settle down with one. or twenty. i want to be a part of twenty's lives - male and female - and still have room for more. sexually and nonsexually.
i also want to sleep close at night to one (or in the middle of two! whom) i trust and love. not always, but a lot of nights.
i wish all the people i loved could just be one big tribe. for a lot of my life, i've dreamed of having a community-living situation made up of artists & musicians.... like, one MASSIVE house on fifty acres in which we each have rooms, live as democratically as possible, and in/from which a lot of really creative stuff gets brought into the world. more recently i think it would be better to have a lot of very small houses on a mile section out in the boondocks somewhere....
i don't think i want ONE partner. i want plenty of lovers, friends, and companions, and to be able to show them love and be shown the same without anybody freaking out. and not worry about anybody dictating to any of us where lines should be drawn. i LIKE the lines being fuzzy! or maybe there doesn't even have to be a line in the first place.
personal boundaries are cool (necessary). imposed lines/rules are not.
i think part of my longtime need for a lot of time to myself comes from feeling these ways, wanting these things, and stuffing a lot of that way down because it wouldn't fly with so many of the people making up my daily life. i'm coming to care less and less lately. it feels good to care less about what people think of me or the things i like/want, but i can still freak out once in a while if i feel i'm being abandoned by someone(s) important to me because they don't like some way that i am.
does anyone else feel any of this "tribal-want" stuff?
i think it was in one of Redpepper's posts that she described having all "her people" out on the back porch together at once, a moment she once thought couldn't happen - but once she stood there witnessing it, in the middle of it....pure bliss.
*wistful sigh* yeah, something very much like that. i could be a very happy cat on a rug in a house often full of people i love coming and going, as they pleased.
sooo....i'm crazy, right?
05-28-2012, 08:36 AM
does anyone else feel any of this "tribal-want" stuff?
Yes. (although my fantasy tribe is different than yours)
sooo....i'm crazy, right?
No. (Well, not from what you've written here any way!:p)
05-28-2012, 01:43 PM
heh....thanks, JQ. ;)
05-30-2012, 10:54 AM
have had massive wind & hail storms here last night and this morning. and Z just spent his entire memorial day weekend plus leveling and grass-seeding his yard. ugh.
i can hear the hail hitting the roof and porch this morning as i type....last night it was golf-ball sized, this morning probably more like quarter-sized....and hey, it's june. ah well. that's life in the bible-belt-buckle.
after long and somewhat progressive/productive talks a couple of weeks ago, J has mostly gone radio silent again. he was happy that we were spending more time together, but when he realized that i "could share," he's again withdrawn. mono and low self-esteem are in his genes. (that's not a summarizing statement of who he is, but of the situation as it stands.)
and i feel myself glad that Z is taking time to himself during his week-long vacation from work. recently i find (again) that i make a lot of personal and daily decisions based upon what i think he needs, wants, and likes - OVERriding my own. it's my subconscious trying to play Wifey out of boredom, stagnation, habit... but i've had a couple dreams in the past few weeks that tell me it wants to do otherwise - very subtle and sensual dreams about a classically "tall, dark & handsome" man whom i don't know well (not a fictional character), who has equally subtly expressed interest some time back.
i seem to fall in lust, get close, the love & caring comes on, then eventually i'm TOO close, and the desire disappears while the caring & tenderness often intensifies. and then i find i'm trying to spoon-feed the once-object of my desire like an infant. it's like the nurturing mother-instinct takes over and the wolf fades to the background. i don't know if it's from a desire not to hurt or be hurt....but it sucks. i need to learn to maintain a healthy, encouraging, and mutually self-sufficient distance.
and now an old interest pops up....Shade.
M has been more or less my type. beautiful big man, beautiful voice. and wicked-funky bassist. (yup, i luv the ones who can hold down the bottom end in their sleep.) we had a whirlwind emotional fling a few years back while i was seeing J that Phariseeically (yes, my own term) pounded the edges of the definition of physical sex on all sides while remaining "innocent" (yeah right) because we practically did everything *except* fuck.
Shade was in love with me then. i was in love with J, and while adoring Shade and the attention and validation he showered me with (he cooks, hosts, loves, drinks, makes music, works, and does the father-thing all with great gusto and lust for life), *needed* J and his introverted, vid-game-geeking, clinically depressed, negativistic, cynical, sweet ass so much that i could and would not leave him, for myself or another man. so, understandably, Shade and i both got tired of playing that game and running that spiral-in/pull-back gauntlet several nights a week, and he finally made the outright move to cut it off. wisely.
since then, massive change in both our lives, and now we have reconnected purely as friends.
i realize in seeing him last week that simply the thought of being IN love (or even NRE) nearly disgusts me at this point. all the time i spend trying to caretake for men anyway...i can't imagine thinking about someone else all damn day or baking his favorite oatmeal cookies every time i think i'm going to see him.
i went and re-read the "solo poly" section of Tristan Taormino's "Opening Up" last night before bed...it's so settling and reassuring to reorient myself that way. i am one who can lose myself in a partner's needs, directions, desires - become nearly totally saturated and assimilated...and seriously lose myself in the process, waking up some morning in the future feeling totally flatlined and disoriented from my own life.
Z LOVES the way i often dote on and take care of him, as i fall into the habit of doing, but he's only vaguely aware of the fact that it's often more the habit than the desire of "playing wife". and i feed off his grateful response, which can be beautiful if intention is pure, but can be very "trapping" and habit-reinforcing otherwise. ugh.
my want and inclinations to practice poly have as much to do with figuring out (and loving) myself and all that's going on in the deep, dark, entangled inside of a human as it does loving the beauty of other humana in my circles....
06-14-2012, 02:29 AM
i'm not sure i'm even in the right place. i can be easily tossed about by heavy emotional storms....there's been a lot happen since i've been here a couple weeks ago.
quick recap for my own sake: for two years now i've been more or less coupled with Z, a man who has since become my closest friend, with whom i'm not and never have been in love, but whom i love very much. the progression of our relationship from "just friends" to "sexual friends" happened quickly and coincided with the end of my last relationship with a longtime friend of his, J.
Z and i have had our extreme ups and downs, but for the most part we are pretty level in our relationship at this point. i can't see us not staying at this level of friendship - admittedly, i'm afraid of such a rift occurring between us - because ours is the first male/female friendship i've ever really had where i can talk to him about absolutely anything, and even though voices may get raised and we may not come to a total understanding on whatever subject, he has caused me to believe in the deepest part of me that he won't abandon me as a friend. we may go back to being "just" friends; we may anger each other or not talk for a few days; but even when these things happen, we miss each other's presence. i appreciate him for his acceptance of the parts of me i don't want just anybody to know about; the parts i'm not proud of; the immature and childish parts.
to say: we're solid as friends.
i was in love with J, my ex, for a long time. even as we were breaking up two years ago, i may still have been in love with him. but i knew i couldn't really even attempt living a freer lifestyle while with him, so - break both our hearts though it did - i left. the fact that i hooked up with a mutual friend in the meantime was the match that lit the house on fire, causing The Fallout.
since then, J and i have been able to talk some and level quite a bit. but we both still love each other and sometimes it seems avoidance is the best tactic, esp at points when, say, we're hanging out at his house and playing video games, and time comes for me to leave, but i'd really rather stay the night with him, and just snuggle up to him and hold him tight all night like we used to. he can be lonely and depressed...and so can i. we were good medicine for each other's abandonment issues to be sure.
i love one of these men - Z - as my closest and best friend. we're often great with each other in bed, too. and we love snuggling each other. he's mono - book open and closed - but he's agreed to basically let me do whatever my heart leads me to do, because he knows i need this time in life to do just that, as long as i am blatantly honest with him about everything i do, whether before or after. i trust him completely; he is a rock for me, and we sharpen each other "as iron sharpens iron."
i love the other one - J - because i fell in love with him at a point when he was really low, and i found the goodness and softness of his heart before i realized i was physically attracted to him. in him i feel that "home" that stems from an intuitive recognition of the similarities in how we grew up, our "programming," all i see in him of my father, and how safe and cared for he makes me feel. he felt like "home" from day one....i just had to grow up and leave home to do other things, too.
problem is...the latter pretty much hates the former at this point because of how things went down, and the former has long since stopped trying to communicate or repair their friendship at this point because of the latter's constant refusal to reciprocate. there is nothing i can say or do to change this right now.
i've spent the past two years splitting my heart and soul between a) trying to put some of my focus on figuring out and digging into things i truly want; b) trying to be good to Z; and c) trying to repair any semblance of friendship/relationship with J.
initially there was a lot of pain, confusion, and general hell. two years later, i've gained strength, direction, clarity, courage, and sense of self. now i am happy...for the most part.
but i find i can't let J go in the deep parts of me, nor do i find the desire in me to latch onto and couple up with Z like i once did J.
these men are mono.
i DO get jealous, but i do love them both. i don't want to be owned. and as a result, even though i'm human and have my own programming to deal with, i'm willing to reciprocate. at least to try.
i am finding that my own poly identification is more on the emotional side than the sexual. i don't need more sex in my life. once in a while - maybe once a month - i awake with a real appetite for it. otherwise, it's a part of my life that i enjoy because i can please someone i love SO much with it.
(that's part of the reason Z decided to basically open our relationship FOR me, i think: he is very happy with what is between us, and after both of us solemnly mulling over one of my crazy, toeing-the-line, pressure-release-valve nights with friends several weeks ago, he sat me down and told me, "you do absolutely anything you truly want to do in the moment, because i don't ever want to take that away from you - i love the freedom of the creature you are. just be very honest with me about all you do, because as long as we are sleeping together, it all involves me." he knew that if i did not have this freedom, i would have to leave.)
a few months ago, when Z and i decided basically to change our "working title", i started hanging out more with J. we talked some about what was between myself and Z, both because he asked and because i felt he needed to know the truth.
in the past few years, i've gone from being a tell-you-as-little-as-i-can-get-away-with girl to a tell-you-way-too-much-unless-you-stop-me, because i was hiding things, lying, omitting, bending the truth. and it hurt people i loved, as well as myself. NOW, you get all you can take hearing from me until you shut me up or draw the line.
well, apparently J wanted to know, but he wanted to hear what he wanted to hear, too. for a while, we were talking daily, and hanging out once a week. then it slacked off...once it was apparent that i wasn't going to simply swing back into the ways of the old relationship we'd had, that if there was going to be anything between us, it was going to be a very different thing and require a lot of bending, working out, talking out, etc. eventually i didn't hear from him much.
it's not what he wants.
after it being weeks, maybe a month, since we exchanged more than a one-line text, i texted him today. got no reply. called him this evening, and he more or less flamed on me. told me without a doubt that he loves me and hates making me cry, but he can't stand the fact that i'm with Z, and probably couldn't stand it if i was with anyone else. that he loves me, misses me, misses having a friend who will really listen and sympathize, misses the way he could talk to me; the way we'd hold each other....
he felt like i got his hopes up. when i felt like i was telling him the truth about what was going on.
blah blah blah, i'm making myself cry again.
about once, sometimes twice a month, my missing him - that longing and wondering if our relationship had truly run its whole course - swells up in me and overwhelms me. and i'll make some contact with him, usually enough to feel okay and tell myself that we're okay as friends and we truly do care about each other, and then it'll die down enough and i'll get busy enough with life and Z and things i enjoy that i don't think too much about it....and then it'll swell up in me again.
lately i've found a little more of that fatherly/home sense in Z...but i feel like i'm trying to substitute. ugh.
so much for working polyamory. LOL pretty lame, huh? =/ feel like i'm going about things all wrong.
trying to make the best of it by throwing myself into creation mode with all this raw fodder...
07-13-2012, 02:10 AM
Z and i had to call it off for real this week.
i pushed him away, and he accepted that. it was time. too much emotional rollercoaster for both of us, and i finally wore his patience thin.
he is my best friend. i miss him so much right now. all i can do is cry. i wish he would change his mind and just show up, but i know that wouldn't fix anything.
it would be like a drug: fix the immediate problem by taking another hit to make the withdrawals subside, but you're really adding to the ultimate problem by feeding it.
my therapist says we are finally getting down to the real work of it in going over my parents divorce and my early life. he says i have huge abandonment issues. i had only barely thought about this. i've always been told - and mostly believed - that i have commitment issues.
i've never thought of myself as wounded - only as one who wounded others. a voice in my head says that if i accept that idea, i'm only feeling sorry for myself, and that's no good.
i feel like i have been abandoned...but first by myself.
i told him i really wanted to come by his place after work and hug him, but i knew i would just cry all over him, although i didn't want to change his mind, and he was right; separation is best for both of us - so if he didn't want to meet up, that was okay, i understood.
his last text to me today was, "i don't think meeting one more time this evening would be a good idea for me. i'm sorry. please know that i do love you very, very much, and that's not going to change no matter what happens. don't worry about losing me forever or me turning against you, it just can't happen. this will work out in time and i'll be here for you no matter what, i promise."
i hold onto this right now like a sacred text, like a last letter from a loved one. i know, i'm being melodramatic. i still feel like someone has died, and i ache clear through to my bones.
maybe i really don't belong here, among all of you who can successfully love more than one person without clinging like this. right now i'm just posting to get it out of me.
going to sleep.
08-23-2012, 03:04 PM
i read over my past posts the other day and saw where most of it seems to be so much anxious, whining running back & forth from one person's wishes to another's, with little to no clarity on my own part as to my own feelings and wishes.
have been going back to therapy and doing very well. it came to me recently that this phase of my life has been/is very much about teaching myself that i don't need someone else as a guide; that i can trust my own desires and intuition; my own common sense and experiential wisdom is plenty good enough to make my own decisions; and i can make them and blaze my own trails where needed.
i see where i've often stopped short of standing by decisions i've made and taking steps i've wanted to because of fear of hurting or alienating a loved one.
i see also where i've faked feelings and moved like a zombie through behaviors that i didn't really feel - out of feelings of shame, fear, and guilt.
i've spent enough time alone, both recently and in earlier years, that i have zero problem with it. at this point in my life, i'm more comfortable rolling solo than i am with another person for very long. i sleep alone easily. life is not difficult this way.
i'm just wrapping up reading Heinlein's "Stranger in a Strange Land." great book; recommended reading for anybody, not just potential polys. at one point in the reading, this billboard appeared center stage in my mind:
DROP THE GUILT.
so been trying that for a while. guilt seems to be the gateway to the other two (shame & fear). have been mostly successful at noticing when it arises, and then basically chucking it in the trash - choosing consciously to feel otherwise. it's been a godsend.
one man wants you for himself, and he steps up on his little soapbox when you speak how you feel. he speaks from his own narrowminded view of mainstream "morality." when i try to tell him everything, it's too much. when i tell him as little as he absolutely needs to know, it's too little and you've been withholding or lying. "if you love me, i don't see HOW you can love HIM."
really? then that's YOUR problem.
another says that it's great with him to be friends and have sex, but he draws the line at my sharing physical intimacy with another man, whether or not there is actual penetration. if that comes into the picture, he's got to leave and find another.
okay. then go your way, with my best wishes and love in my heart.
i've been taking what are babysteps for me. i've felt myself, my heart & spirit, opening up to possibilities unthought-of before. but even people who love you and want to share parts of their lives with you can still put too much pressure on you - whether or not they realize it - still to conform to their own ways, their wants. if you are an emotional sponge and a pleaser, like me, this can cause you to put pressure on YOURSELF, which is the LAST thing i've needed lately.
had to stop trying to please anybody else but myself for a while. sure it's selfish - in the healthiest way. it's been really good for me.
good to come back and catch up on some of you.
12-03-2012, 10:47 PM
so J and i went out last tuesday, had a few beers, and talked some. the conversation didn't get too heavy, but we're going riding motorcycles this afternoon, and i feel like it could and SHOULD get to that heavy place.
Z was really cool with me going out with J. i'd told him just previously that we'd seen a little much of each other/i hadn't been getting the solo time i needed, so by the time i'd gone out with J, we hadn't seen each other for a day or two, and it was another two before we saw each other again, but he (Z) responded to my date with J and my time alone with little more than a slight distance between us, plus he never failed to text me and just check in upon occasion, sending "good night" or "just reaching out to touch base " texts at least once a day. this kind of thing makes me feel very good about me, him, and the state of our relationship as friends + lovers.
it was just this past tuesday that J and i saw each other, and the energy was good. it'd been a couple of months since we'd seen each other, so there were feelings between us similar to NRE all over again. we laughed and goofed and talked about friends and life, but never really went into depth on the rest of our daily lives.
the last hangout session before this one didn't end well at all because neither of us wanted to talk about what was really going on in the rest of our lives because we knew it'd spoil the evening. J would get pissed that my mind and position hadn't changed from "i love you and miss you in my life, but i'm polyamorous" (explanation/description/s go/es here) "and i would love to see more of you, but there are a couple of other people i'm very close to and i won't sacrifice my other relationships or my autonomy for an exclusive one with you or anyone else."
friday (yesterday) J asked if we could hang out some this weekend. i said yes, that'd be great, and suggested the motorcycle ride if the weather cooperated. he said great.
i also had an interview friday morning for a job i'd REALLY like to have, so my nerves were a little shot to begin with, but then i got a text from Z (we'd been in touch via text all morning thus far) asking if we could talk some that evening. well, that just shot my nerves up even further, because our history is pretty replete with "i need to talk later" texts, which have in the past signaled some volcanic upheaval (and hard conversation makes me really emotional anyway!), and we're both worrywarts. so all day i worried about it, though i was pretty sure he needed a check-in talk about how i felt about J and where my intentions were.
turns out that was correct. we sat down on his couch last evening and i told him everything i felt: i love him (Z) very much, he is my best friend, and our relationship has been a continuing catalyst for growth in my life that i've needed very much, and i can't think of anything i want to change about us. also, that i still loved J very much, and i know i can be sentimental and nostalgic about him and our past relationship (Schrodinger's Cat is right: i have nurtured these feelings and sentiments whether i realized it or not); i know there is an unwillingness in my heart to let go of the possibility that he may wake up and really HEAR what i am saying, combined with what i am trying to show him and the life i am trying to live, and see the possibility that simultaneous intimate relationships with more than one person might work, and well - and that even if that's not the case for him, it may well be the case for ME. i haven't let go of the hope that he might someday be able to see me for who i am and realize that the similar feelings that i have for him and others are not a bad thing, but could possibly a very good thing.
i told Z straight up that i KNEW it was not a possibility at this time (and so not to think that i was asking or pushing in that direction), but if it were a possibility, i could and would be happy having a very similar relationship with J as i do with him. we talked about the details involving that, and i was right - for him, it is not a possibility at this time, and mostly because of J's refusal to be friends with Z at this point, although he conceded that it might be a possibility in the future - there is simply no way to know, it's hypothetical at best right now.
he also told me straight up that he thought i needed to lay ALL this out for J just as i had for him, without wavering. no letting up when the air got thick and things felt scary and tough. i know he's right; my gut says the same thing. i wonder now if it needs to happen this afternoon when i see J...or should i put it all in a letter, so that i can say EXACTLY what i feel and think, without the feedback loop of J's nonverbal responses to what i'm saying constantly influencing what comes out of my mouth and how it comes out?
but Z heard me, heard all this; he listened well and was gentle - things he knows i need. he was wonderful. i cried anyway, just because that's how i am. for clarification, he repeated back to me in his own words what he thought he'd heard.
i'm telling you...this guy is awesome. i am seriously grateful for his continued directness, and that he wants to be such a close friend to me.
then we had dinner and crashed out for the night.
i'm working this morning, but this afternoon J and i get together this afternoon. we'll see how things go. i think i'm about to start the letter.
Z has a gig tonight. i'm there. i love to go see/hear him play and support him and the rest of the guys in the band.
also: i was reading this post on Solopoly.com:
and what resonated with me was this:
"I would cling too strongly to my relationship, rather than develop a strong core of independent emotional awareness and resilience."
this underlined for me what i already kind of knew: i get blown about by all this because what i have so far FAILED to establish is that STRONG core. i've been journalling a lot about that lately and some interesting things have come to light...things for me to work on, ways to build that.
happy saturday, all.
02-27-2013, 12:39 AM
after yet another cycle (breakup, back together, things go great, the same things are suddenly terrible and we're too close, i want out, breakup), Z asks me very gently if i know anything about Borderline Personality Disorder. (he said he'd never heard of it himself until he stumbled across it doing some of his own online research on poly.)
i read everything i can get my hands on about it for the next few days, and *BINGO*. it fits too well. most of it, except for the rage part. i'm very, very seldom to never filled with anger or rage - but i think that what happens is, what MIGHT have been anger gets subverted by feelings of helplessness and deep shame, and it comes out as gut-wrenching sorrow and despair.
and suicide: i've never tried to kill myself. there've been a handful times over the past few years (and a fewer times further back than that) that i've had suicidal thoughts. but i couldn't go through with it. and i never told him.
panic and anxiety; depression; huge mood swings in short times; frantic attempts to thwart (perceived) abandonment; compulsive behaviors; lack of identity; frequent changes in core values, friendships, careers, sexual identity; dissociation/depersonalization, and more...
"GET AWAY FROM ME - DON'T LEAVE ME!!"
so i guess i'm here to apologize for the messes i often was all over the page/screen....i don't think i ever really belonged here. i've been clinging hard to two men for three years now...not being the brutally honest, caring, responsible individuals that i see most others on this forum being.
have an appointment to get evaluated/tested for BPD. maybe i can start getting my shit straight instead of wallowing in place and dragging others with me.