intimate moments with lovers

[redpepper]

I would love to know how you deal with public affection, or even not so public.... at home with my men affection. This one stumps me a little. I have kind of left it up to my men but it feels awkward. I am a very affectionate person and I tend to back away and give a lot of space when they are both around... let them come to me.... which doesn't feel natural to me. I guess slowly they are finding their own comfort with one another but does anyone have any stories to relay or tips.

[Quath]

When I was in a FMF triad, I worried about this a lot. I finally told them that I worried about how much time I spent snuggling with each of them because I worried the other would feel left out. We resolved it to an extent by just being aware of the issue. They told me to snuggle as I saw fit and they would try to do likewise. I still worried, but I don't think it was as big of an issue as I was making it.

I think the bigger problem was that I saw this in so many of the things we did. Who sits in the front seat in the car? On a rollar coaster ride, who rides with whom? Those are the things that society has pretty good rules of thumbs for monogamous couples, but nothing really for polyamorous people. The best I could do was to try to take turns and keep track. (But I think that was probably not the best long term solution.)

[redpepper]

LOL, yes, we have a struggle with those things too. Or maybe it's just I do. Right now it's planning to go camping, who will sleep in what tent and should we all just sleep in the same tent and do I have the right to have time with either alone with one or the other and ..... the questions abound... I am trying to let it go as neither of my men seem to worry, but I am, by nature big into justice and balancing my attentions... *sigh* I guess there is always something to figure out.
thanks for your response
:)

[MonoVCPHG]

"No" to same tent.."no" to private time. I am such a manly man!!
I'm bringing a lock for my tent zipper...you will not get me in trouble!! We have forever. But I love you ridiculously even for thinking about this :)

[River]

So, there's David in the picture in a way which is something different from "just friends".... I'm too experienced now to pretend that I know how all of this is going to work out, and, anyway, I just want to live one moment at a time!

[ Background: http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=895 ]

Anyway, David & Kevin & I are up in the mountains hiking and picnicing ... and it wasn't long before handholding, walking arm-in-arm, snuggling and kissing began between each of us--pretty much in that order.

At some point, David mentioned that he wants to be carefull to insure that his touching was given out in equal proportions to both Kevin & I (who are partners of 12 yrs.). Thinking that this was just a beginning of such get-togethers, I immediately said that Kevin & I are comfortable enough with our situation that we're not worried about metering affection. I wanted him to know that it's okay to relax about this issue, even to let go of it. If Kevin & he were to spend more time caressing each other than with me, that'd be fine. If I needed to say, "Hey, let me have some...", I could do that.

There's something very contrived and artificial about trying to insure that everyone is getting equal signs of affection. Imagine someone counting up minutes, seconds..., trying to be sure not to favor one person over another in an openning couple such as Kevin and I have (are)?! That's just not relaxed enough. Sure, it would be terrible to be left out of the affection entirely, but, you know, nature has sunny days and rainy ones..., things are in flux. We ought to let ourselves be natural about it. It won't rain on anyone all of the time -- nor will the sun always shine on anyone. Too much worry about "equal treatment" is as bad or worse than actual inequality of affection and love.

[MonoVCPHG]

"Imagine someone counting up minutes, seconds..., trying to be sure not to favour one person over another in an opening couple such as Kevin and I have (are)?!"

Beautiful statement! I know Repepper puts a lot of work and energy into sorting this out and I appreciate this. I honestly have zero issue with the balance of time. I am here for a long time and don't feel a need to try to cram as much of her time in as I can. That would imply there is an end. I feel no end to this and therefore have a freedom to just enjoy! This is an area that causes me personally, absolutely no concern.

The camping coming up is an opportunity to all get together with other like minded people (like minded is used from the "appreciating polyamory" sense in my case..I don't pretend to be like minded in being polyamorous..I'm not). I don't require special attention or affection in these environments. It's not a necessity. I like being treated as a close personnel friend.

Everyone knows about us, so that is not the issue. I just enjoy Redpepper and her husbands’ company. I am in awe of there connection and love for each other because it has allowed them to take a path I couldn't even fathom. I get lots of affection. I am not lacking in any area of my intimate life except for the capacity to explain to them how much their inclusion of me in their life means and just how much I love Redpepper.

I wish I could help Redpepper with this. She knows I feel taken care of affectionately..she just has to trust in that.

[River]

He-he.... Cute, that "correction" of my spelling of favor (the American spelling) with "favour" the British, and thus Canadian, one! He-he.:p

[Mark1npt]

There's something very contrived and artificial about trying to insure that everyone is getting equal signs of affection. Imagine someone counting up minutes, seconds..., trying to be sure not to favor one person over another in an openning couple such as Kevin and I have (are)?! That's just not relaxed enough. Sure, it would be terrible to be left out of the affection entirely, but, you know, nature has sunny days and rainy ones..., things are in flux. We ought to let ourselves be natural about it. It won't rain on anyone all of the time -- nor will the sun always shine on anyone. Too much worry about "equal treatment" is as bad or worse than actual inequality of affection and love. JRM

That's a tremendous paragraph, JRM and a great term "meter out"......this is a topic that my wife, my 2nd and I are new to and still trying to come to grips with. Most nights we are all very comfortable sitting together on the sofa, sharing touches, hand holding, etc. Me, the instigator of the poly arrangement seems to always be feeling like I need to "meter out" the displays of affection in a 50/50 way to these two fine women. It's almost phobic on my part, seemingly needing to be sure that I'm not favoring one partner over the other...I guess especially so since I'm still feeling guilty about dragging my long time wife into this arrangement with me and not wanting for a minute for her to feel left out of anything. She assures me she doesn't and that the affection I show my 2nd or she me, doesn't bother her at all.

So why do I still feel the need to "meter it out"? Is it because this is all still so new, from guilt, or is it out of 27 years' habit of only holding hands with, rubbing toes with my wife? Will this need to "meter out" pass with time and our growth as a polyfidelitous V? Your 12 year history seems to have lent much wisdom to you JRM.....I hope I'm there one day.

[MonoVCPHG]

He-he.... Cute, that "correction" of my spelling of favor (the American spelling) with "favour" the British, and thus Canadian, one! He-he.:p

that was my spell checker! LOL...

[redpepper]

thanks for the response... the added factor is my son. He is just beginning to realize that I go out and don't come back until morning and while he hasn't said anything. probably doesn't get it anyway, as he is 6, he does notice and I haven't decided how much I want him to notice. His dad doesn't want him to notice anything, but it is becoming impossible at this point. Camping will just create more obvious connection between me and Monovcphg.

[Lemondrop]

Redpepper, my situation is a bit different and I don't have a lot of experience,but I thought I'd share what my quad is doing.

Wife #2 and I talked, and we kind of feel like trying to balance the affection obsessively is leaving everyone feeling left out. So we figured that we should all just give affection as much as possible to everyone involved, so much affection that we'll all be sick of it. I don't know if it's working yet, but we kind of think that it can't hurt.

As for kids, between us we have a 14yo, a 10yo, a 7yo, and a 3yo. The 14yo we told about our new extended family, and tried to reassure him that we will all love him. The younger ones we haven't come out and told anything, but I think they have the advantage of not having spent so much time absorbing society's ideas of what a proper relationship should be. We are a little careful what kind of affection we show around them--husband #2 won't kiss me when the kids are around, but we share plenty of hugs. When my 10yo exclaimed that she was going to tell Daddy that I was hugging husband #2 when he wasn't around, husband #2 just laughed and hugged her. We try to keep our reactions light and not act like we are doing anything shameful. The 7yo and the 3yo have made no comments whatsoever about the way we express affection yet.

[Danny40179]

I guess I lucked out. My wives love each other deeply as I love each of them. We often joke that if one of us wasn't around, the other two would carry on. (Not that we EVER want that to happen)

As far as the affection goes, because everyone knows about us we don't have to hide anything when we're out. When I look back to when our gf came to live with us, I can't think of any akwardness. I think it helped that my wife and I had been together for so long, and were so solid in our relationship. It was a pretty seamless integration.

We all sleep in the same bed (Thank God for King sized beds!!) and share every aspect of our lives. We each get alone time when we can and no one feels neglected in any way. (Wife leaves earlier for work so the gf and I have alone time...gf gets home from work later so wife and I have our time, and when I work late the girls have their time)

I think the biggest piece to any aspect of the Poly lifestyle is communication. I talk about that all the time to my monogamous friends who inquire about our lifestyle. Without completely open lines of communication, I doubt anyone can have a successful Poly relationship.

[MonoVCPHG]

Without completely open lines of communication, I doubt anyone can have a successful Poly relationship.


I am with you on this. Absolutely agree.

[Alhena]

Ive yet to sleep over when my bfs wife is home but i assume we would all sleep in the same bed. Other times ive been over with them we all cuddle togehter watching movies, he sits in the middle while wife and gf snuggle up on either side of him. Out in public same thing, he sits between us, stands between us and we all hold hands. Weve gone to disneyland together once and it went well. We took turns sitting with him on rides where it was a 2 seater or she and i would ride together while he sat alone, we would snuggle up together on bigger rides and on the carasoul (sp?) he again sat in the middle of us while all on horsies. We got a few stares but nothing major we werent openly touching or making out or putting on a spectical just holding hands, cuddling and the occasional peck on the lips.

I have to admit lately i feel a little awkward having to much contact with him with wife around because we are having a lil trouble re: the post i made in new to poly, im never sure how she will react or what she allows.

[MonoVCPHG]

Ive yet to sleep over when my bfs wife is home but i assume we would all sleep in the same bed. .

That's quite an assumption! I do sleep over but I stay in a seperate bed which is perfectly fine by me LOL! I always worry about encroaching on thier time as it is. We are not there and may never be there. I am ok with that but I know Redpepper would absolutley love to wake up next to both her husband and me!

[Alhena]

I only assume that because 1. we have already laid around in bed all together just relaxing 2. theres no where else for me to sleep and 3. its been implied I would. :)

[Danny40179]

Always better to be safe than sorry Alhena. Asking just prevents you from being surprised and possibly hurt down the road. :)

[AutumnalTone]

When we camping together, we all shared a tent (tent rated for eight people means lots of room for three). My wife slept on a cot and my (former) inamorata and I slept on air mattresses. Come morning, my inamorata and I enjoyed some naked goodness; my wife woke up to the noise, looked and saw it was us, and rolled over to go back to sleep.

I never worried about showing affection for one when the other was around. It was nothing I ever thought about. I simply showed affection to whomever I wanted to whenever I wanted to.

As I just began dating another woman, I expect the same sort of thing in the future. I'm not going to worry about it unless one of the ladies says she feels a bit shortchanged, then I'll address that.

So, I say to PDA as you will and expect any shortcomings to get reported. Deal with only real issues and not imaginary issues that may never arise.

[redpepper]

thank you for all your replies. Slowly the naturalness of showing affection is coming through in my "v" and leaving it all alone has helped. While camping i got hammock time with my boyfriend and tent time with my husband. My husband is aware that I need time with my boyfriend and allows that space... asks us when we are going away for a weekend and when we are going to celebrate different things together etc. I don't feel comfortable showing my boyfriend affection around my son, but it is early days yet anyway. it's all coming along nicely.... thanks again!

[MonoVCPHG]

thank you for all your replies. Slowly the naturalness of showing affection is coming through in my "v" and leaving it all alone has helped. While camping i got hammock time with my boyfriend and tent time with my husband. My husband is aware that I need time with my boyfriend and allows that space... asks us when we are going away for a weekend and when we are going to celebrate different things together etc. I don't feel comfortable showing my boyfriend affection around my son, but it is early days yet anyway. it's all coming along nicely.... thanks again!


The important thing to rememebr is that I don't feel left out or ignored. I simply love being with Redpepper alone or with her family. I have no issues with keeping intimate moments private. Because I am here for the long haul, I don't feel the need to get as much of Redpepper as I can all at once. I'm happy to love her in different ways depending on the environment. I feel a little sad for those that need more because I am sure it is frustrating.

[Danny40179]

Mono, I wish I could have you talk to someone who just doesn't get the poly lifestyle because she's mono. I'd love to have her as a part of our family, but that will never be. *sigh* Kudos to you for being open minded and understanding and being able to work through the concerns.

[MonoVCPHG]

Mono, I wish I could have you talk to someone who just doesn't get the poly lifestyle because she's mono. I'd love to have her as a part of our family, but that will never be. *sigh* Kudos to you for being open minded and understanding and being able to work through the concerns.


Danny, although I wish I had the capacity to help someone understand it I don't. I honestly don't understand how someone loves more than one person intimately but I know it is real. Redpepper and her husband both know that it is my overwhelming love for her that enables me to overcome many challenges.

Sadly, I would probably never recommend a monogamous person to get involved in a polyamorous relationship. I also would not pursue another one if Redpepper and me were to split up either. In fact I would probably avoid any polyamorous person I started having feelings for. I would be honest and communicate but stay distant.

The differences between a mono and poly nature are much more than social in my case. They are fundamental. I have never felt so much love in a relationship but I have also never felt so much uncertainty, fear and pain. If I didn't love Redpepper with all my heart I would have surrendered to these feelings and ran for the hills lol!!

We are all lucky because somehow we were all brought together and everything just seems to fall into place. From my love for Redpepper to the love shared between me and everyone in her family, we have been blessed. It is not easy at times but immensely rewarding.

Sorry this probably isn't what you wanted to hear..but I have learned nothing from polyamory if I haven't learned to be honest:)

[Mark1npt]

Mono, I think it's pretty darn admirable that you are so mono, yet can accept the poly lifestyle of redpepper. That's gotta be tough.

[MonoVCPHG]

Mono, I think it's pretty darn admirable that you are so mono, yet can accept the poly lifestyle of redpepper. That's gotta be tough.

It's only possible because of the love we both have for each other and the help of her husband who has become a very close friend. It is not near as tough anymore..I am secure in so many ways, as is she. In fact, we have really moved into a new area of comfort for all of us just recently. We want this forever but try not to overthink the future as that is where we can get fearful. We also have learned not to let external stuff influence us as much.

This is about the three of us building something based on the love we share. At it's core is the undeniable fact that me and Redpepper love each other immensely and I am a positive in her life with her husband and son.

I am beyond lucky to get to experience even a little of her love. She is amazing.:)

[Mark1npt]

You sound the closest (with regard to deep love)to in my shoes as anyone on this forum. Deep longlasting love for my wife and our dear friend of 20+ years has led us to our trio and I also do feel extremely lucky. I hope it lasts forever for all 3 of us as we can function in one extremely cohesive unit and we all benefit form eachothers friendship and love. Thank God my wife embraced this with me.

[MonoVCPHG]

I hope it lasts forever for all 3 of us as we can function in one extremely cohesive unit and we all benefit form eachothers friendship and love.

I hope it lasts forever too:) I love your aproach to polyamory because it is similar to ours and one I can function within. It is community with like minded people that RedPepper and her husband are also seeking. Too bad you didn't live closer, sounds like we could all learn from each other.
Take care my friend

[Mark1npt]

Amen Mono......many happy years for you and Redpepper and her husband.

[MonoVCPHG]

I'd like to hear form other Life Loves aka "secondaries" (sorry for the term) on this issue. What you need, want, and feel comfortable with.

If anything I have more restrictive rules and expect less than Redpepper and her husband LOL! It is so funny to race with her husband for the back seat with thier son. I'm sure we totally confuse those around us who don't know the dynamic of our relationship.

Redpepper and her husband go out of thier way to make sure I feel welcome and get close time with her when we are all together. I actually don't even worry about it! Being viewed and interacting as a "close friend" is fine by me. What are your thoughts?

[rory]

This is an old thread, and people have moved on from these situations. But I found these thoughts extremely helpful.

There's something very contrived and artificial about trying to insure that everyone is getting equal signs of affection. Imagine someone counting up minutes, seconds..., trying to be sure not to favor one person over another in an openning couple such as Kevin and I have (are)?! That's just not relaxed enough. Sure, it would be terrible to be left out of the affection entirely, but, you know, nature has sunny days and rainy ones..., things are in flux. We ought to let ourselves be natural about it. It won't rain on anyone all of the time -- nor will the sun always shine on anyone. Too much worry about "equal treatment" is as bad or worse than actual inequality of affection and love.
I completely agree with this. There are differences in feelings and differences in wants and needs and relationships with different people. It's obvious really, when written down, but something I am working to learn so well it becomes natural.

I am here for a long time and don't feel a need to try to cram as much of her time in as I can. That would imply there is an end. I feel no end to this and therefore have a freedom to just enjoy
This is important! We have all the time in the world, there's no hurry. I think this is one of the most important things for me to enable me to worry less and live more.

[redpepper]

Oh man this is an old thread! Nice! :) nice to have the chance to look back. Thanks rory.

I still do what I did back then. I give out kisses and hugs evenly. I don't think its contrived at all. I think its respectul and shows I am considerate to all my partners. I also consider how much I can take on and respect their independence as well as my own. Falling all over them and hanging on their every word with doey eyes just isn't part of the equation :p

I do behave differently in private with different partners. I have different language with them all and a different way of expressing myself. When we are all together I have a way of being that comes from us being together. If that makes sense. Its not put on. It comes naturally.

It has indeed been a long haul so far. ;)

[polyt]

This is an old thread, but I thought I'd share my thoughts.

Though I am not with the couple I was with back in the spring/summer, I still learned a lot from the experience. Affection was not as big of an issue as I thought it'd be. It was just really natural. Even if I was not cuddling with them, it still made me happy to see them cuddling and smiling. Their love only made me love them more. It was just very easy to go with the flow and realize that there was no intentions of any of us getting more affection than another.

[ChloeJane]

In our situation, we totally gage affection based on where we are, and how comfortable we feel being "out". In an anonymous, low lit restaurant we all three hold hands, cuddle, take turns giving each other a bite, a sip, a loving touch. On a walk we take turns holding hands, or walk three in a line if we're all feeling safe and open. Alternately, when we're in neighbourhoods where she feels more private, my husband and I hold hands and walk next to her. Sometimes they hold hands, kiss, hug and I get to admire and enjoy what a beautiful couple they make, and even get to watch other people enjoying looking at them too. When we're all together in a private place it's so touchy-feely-fantastic that we seem to not even really think about it, but being out and about is more about everyone feeling comfortable with outside eyes rather than our own.

Can I just say that I am in awe of RedPepper, her husband & Mono's relationship? SO cool.