NEWGUY's BLOG Thoughts....about all things.... [Archive]

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newguy

01-26-2012, 03:33 AM

So.... PolyKat is my Fiance'...I told her that I'm starting this BLOG and I asked her not to comment...

Ok...so today (actually since I found out about Poly) I have a lot on my mind and I decided to put here for several reasons but the main one is neither one of us (PolyKat nor I) want to 'go public' with what we are doing. I'm NOT looking for advice but I will read anything comments you may on my thoughts...

I love that PK is talking to me openly...but some times it's only the subjects of her choosen, and not every subject is a "open communication" topic...

newguy

01-26-2012, 01:15 PM

Scott

01-26-2012, 01:22 PM

newguy

01-26-2012, 01:26 PM

Ok...something that you didn't know...PK is away for her job and she left in last year...she is scheduled to get back in April...I'm going to visit her next month...

Now, all of our Poly talks came after she left...in fact, she left in October, I visited her in December (no talks) and she told me about her being Poly in January....over a text...think I'll go to the relationship corner and ask about that...anyway, I miss her a lot. Not just the awesome sex but the company all together.

I realized the other day that usually, after we argue, that we have GREAT make-up sex. PK says it just sex and maybe I think it great is because our horniness goes away during our arguments and come back strong when we stop. Whatever it is, it is GREAT SEX afterwards. Since she has been away, we have had some big arguments with no make-up sex...I WANT MY MAKE-UP SEX!!!

But I'll settle for having her lay on my arm and fall asleep watching TV with me...I miss you, love you, and need you PK!!!

newguy

01-26-2012, 06:48 PM

I'm curious as to whether this might be why you don't want her commenting on your blog? If the question's too personal, I'll withdraw the question ;-).

No...the question is not to personal...I'm not sure what your question is...but I'll tell you why I asked her not to comment on here...if she wants to discuss what I wrote then we (me and her) will discuss. What I don't want is her either defending me or trying to explain what I meant. If this didn't answer your question, please reask.

SNeacail

01-26-2012, 07:08 PM

PK and I are both looking for girlfriends...She wants a relationship with a girl that's just like her (this is almost 'Mission Impossible') to start a relationship with that will last a while...I want somone just like her to have sex with (not quite 'Mission Impossible" cause I will settle).

PK has never been with a woman, in fact, she has only kissed one (no tongue) on the mouth. I think that she won't be satisfied with this relationship (if it happens as all) for very long. I'm happy that she is willing to try because of our boundaries (ok, MY boundary of no men) but until recently, when they lifted the band, the thought of her being with other women never crossed her mind. In fact, it was my 'boundary' that brought up this feeling because she feels she needs more than one relationship. Not sure how I feel about that yet.

Our search has us on different websites looking, we both are getting frustrated at all of the (how can I say it) 'not our type' women on these sites. But, we both have decided to press on with our searches.

It doesn't sound like she WANTS a relationship with a woman, but that's all that you will allow. So PK has to have relations ONLY with same sex partners, but it's OK for you to have relations with the opposite sex. Yeah, so I get to eat steak and any other meat I want, but you have to be vegetarian, because I'm the Alpha and declare it to be so. In all fairness, you should be looking for a boyfriend and stay away from other girls.

Some people have taken YEARS to get to a point where they are comfortable having their partner move past platonic stages in their outside relationships. Learn, read, discuss, ruminate and discuss some more then take things super SLOOOOW! Most importantly, make sure your relationship with PK is the best it can be BEFORE doing anything. Just my opinion.

DredlockScarlet

01-26-2012, 07:54 PM

From reading what you have been posting about PK and yourself....your relationship and your thoughts....You say in one post you are NOT ok with being in a polyamorous relationship and that she must choose between you or him...Also the texts...she is saying you NEED to have sex with another woman....You do not NEED to have sex with anyone you do not want to!!! She is saying she needs you to sleep with and have a relationship with another woman...because she needs to understand how she is feeling. This is completely out of line and i find this disgusting that she would pressure you (the person she loves) Into having sex and a relationship with a woman you do not want. What she NEEDS is to sort out her feelings threw herself and not by using you as an experiment.

You now you seem to have come around to the idea of being polyamourous...but she wants a girlfriend ....just like herself and you want a second partner just like her.... This all seems a little messy.

Will this all lead to happy healthy relationships in the long run? four people...Three of which are very similar. I'll admit it would be interesting to explore a relationship with someone similar to myself but i dont think i could cope in the long term haha...Maybe you all could, but people are amazing because we're all different...There are many different forms of Love and affection. Cloning your partner and her wanting another version of herself for a relationship?!...You should both experience people in their own varieties and love them as they are...not base them all on one person.

From what i have read in your posts....I think you need more time to think about what you want and i think that you need to talk more to PK about how you feel....Communication is everything! talking about what you're ok with and what you feel is not ok...Your limits and your feelings are important! she should respect what you want and how you are feeling!

newguy

01-26-2012, 08:27 PM

It doesn't sound like she WANTS a relationship with a woman, but that's all that you will allow. So PK has to have relations ONLY with same sex partners, but it's OK for you to have relations with the opposite sex. Yeah, so I get to eat steak and any other meat I want, but you have to be vegetarian, because I'm the Alpha and declare it to be so. In all fairness, you should be looking for a boyfriend and stay away from other girls.

Some people have taken YEARS to get to a point where they are comfortable having their partner move past platonic stages in their outside relationships. Learn, read, discuss, ruminate and discuss some more then take things super SLOOOOW! Most importantly, make sure your relationship with PK is the best it can be BEFORE doing anything. Just my opinion.

WOW...Thanks for your opinion???...

Ok...a little about me, I have no idea how to 'sugar coat' things so here goes...

I'm not sure what to think about your post...at first, you say that I'm not shit because of how I feel and then you say give her what she wants...

Maybe there are some more things you should know....
1) I don't want another relationship with another woman...it's just sex I'm searching for (only because we are physically separated at this time) Now can PK also do this you may ask so let me say this...I offered her that exact opportunity (to have a break from us while we are separated and she could fuck who she wanted) and she turned it down
2) I never intended on have another woman (relationship or sex) while we are together...when PK offered to let me be with other women, I declined (again, only searching for a sex replacement until she gets back)
3) PK don't want to have just sex with a guy (I maybe could handle that) but she wants a relationship...I don't see that happening and this is known by her...I even told her that I'm not the man for her and tried to break off our engagement but neither of us wanted that...
4) Her being with another woman (relationship or just sex) don't bother me at all...and it is not because I want to join in...it's just the way MY mine works
5) I told PK that she could have a platonic relationship with however many men she want...she declined saying that it may not be fair to them if they wanted sex...I think it would be that they both may want sex

About our relationship is getting better now that she (sometimes) communicates with me as openly as I have ALWAYS communicated with her...that peice of advice I take to heart....the rest of you "opinion" sucks...but that's just my 'opinion'.

Last thing please don't take offense to my response, I know it may seem abrasive (because I really meant it that way), but when I get 'attack' for my beleives/feelings, I go straight into defensive mode...it must be the Alpha in me.

Newguy....

SNeacail

01-26-2012, 09:07 PM

I'm not sure what to think about your post...at first, you say that I'm not shit because of how I feel and then you say give her what she wants...

First off - your not shit because of how you feel, but neither is she for how she feels.

Second - I never said give her what she wants, but that doesn't mean the discussion has to be off the table.

I don't understand the sex is OK as long as there is no relationship thing. To me that screams of being used and tossed aside. I don't see this working the way either of you are approaching the whole situation. The way I read this is that you were kind of blind sided by the whole thing and you guys haven't spent a lot of time hashing out all the ramifications of what it all means or how it could all work (some couples take years to do this). What I have seen is that starting down this path tends to bring all the so called little issues with your current relationship to the surface and magnify them. There have been some absolutely catastrophic disasters that have been posted about here.

Personally, I think you guys need much more time discussing everything and reading about others experiences before doing anything new. Do some tag searches on foundations, lessons, & communication. I know there are others that would be good, but can't think of them.

SourGirl

01-26-2012, 09:09 PM

Last thing please don't take offense to my response, I know it may seem abrasive (because I really meant it that way), but when I get 'attack' for my beleives/feelings, I go straight into defensive mode...it must be the Alpha in me.

Newguy....

A tiny suggestion : If you want people to accept your blunt words, then accept other's blunt words. If they are posting, its because they are trying to help.
Set aside your alpha-big-dog theories, and just be a human being, looking to receive various outlooks. You'll learn more that way.

NovemberRain

01-26-2012, 09:10 PM

I'm not sure what to think about your post...at first, you say that I'm not shit because of how I feel and then you say give her what she wants...

Gotta admit, I'm failing to see where she said you were 'shit'. ?

....the rest of you "opinion" sucks...but that's just my 'opinion'.

You might want to evaluate your receptiveness to opinions. If you want to continue receiving opinions, and you did ask for them, you might want to note that you will receive many you don't like or agree with. Doesn't mean they weren't offered in the spirit in which you requested them. If everyone agreed with you off the top, you might as well not ask, right?
YMMV (and probably will)

nycindie

01-26-2012, 10:41 PM

... I know it may seem abrasive (because I really meant it that way), but when I get 'attack' for my beleives/feelings, I go straight into defensive mode...it must be the Alpha in me.

Um, hello? Nobody attacked you. Where'd you get that idea?

If someone tells you they think it's unfair for you to require PK to be with women when she really doesn't have an interest in women and would rather be with men, that is called offering you an opinion, or another viewpoint you may not have considered. If this is any indication of how you "listen"... no wonder there are communication issues in your relationship and she brought the idea of poly up in a text message. She probably didn't want to deal with the fallout of your reaction.

AND I can tell you that being called unfair will probably be the general consensus here - forcing someone you love to be with people she doesn't want to be with because of your insecurities... ugh. The idea of the "Alpha male" is meaningless and inconsequential here. That is no way to treat someone you care about.

km34

01-26-2012, 11:08 PM

PK can have long term, emotional relationships with whomever she wants (male or female) but the romantic sexual aspect of relationships is what I was refering too in this statement...sorry for confusion.

So she can have an emotional relationship with a man, but if she falls in love, she's in trouble? In other words, she'd be able to have a close friendship with a guy but if she ever has romantic thoughts, it would be crossing a line? That's what I'm understanding, please correct me if I'm wrong.

This clarification seemed to fit in with what is going on in this thread more so than the one it originated in (Text Message: "I'm Poly..." WTF?!?!?!" (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=20594)).

newguy

01-27-2012, 04:13 AM

First off - your not shit because of how you feel, but neither is she for how she feels.

Second - I never said give her what she wants, but that doesn't mean the discussion has to be off the table.

SNeacail,

I need to apologize for the harsh tone I used in my first response...I should not have let my emotions get away and lashed out at you. I can't or won't apologize for what I said for those are my thoughts and the way that I feel and I can't apologize for being me. But when you (and other poly women) label a guy (like me) that won't 'conform' to your way of thinking as unconsidered, traditional, old fashion, insecure, selfish, pigheaded, Neanderthal, controlling, insensitive, and unfair … or that guys like me consider women as property and that we have ownership over them. You see I have been called all of these on this site because I won’t change my feelings on the matter. PK was even told that she should run and get away from me as fast as she could.

Granted, the ownership one was said before they knew I was PKs fiance’ but all of the rest were directed to me in posts and emails. So when I saw “Yeah, so I get to eat steak and any other meat I want, but you have to be vegetarian, because I'm the Alpha and declare it to be so. In all fairness, you should be looking for a boyfriend and stay away from other girls.”, again (in my opinion) another form of attack, I lost it and for that, I apologize.

Please accept my sincere apology.

From reading what you have been posting about PK and yourself....your relationship and your thoughts....You say in one post you are NOT ok with being in a polyamorous relationship and that she must choose between you or him...

Sorry for the confusion...I'm not ok with her being in a sexual relationship with a man and if she ever wanted to pursue then it be either me or him (there is no current him) she would have to make that choice at that time...from what I have read, if a woman have a long term loving, intimate relationship with a woman and me, then they are all in a polyamorous relationship...am I wrong? This type of relationship I can handle.

From what i have read in your posts....I think you need more time to think about what you want and i think that you need to talk more to PK about how you feel....Communication is everything! talking about what you're ok with and what you feel is not ok...Your limits and your feelings are important! she should respect what you want and how you are feeling!

Thank you...I believe that is where we are at now.

A tiny suggestion : If you want people to accept your blunt words, then accept other's blunt words. If they are posting, its because they are trying to help.
Set aside your alpha-big-dog theories, and just be a human being, looking to receive various outlooks. You'll learn more that way.

I agree with what you...I have learned a lot from this forum about Poly, PK, and myself...

You might want to evaluate your receptiveness to opinions. If you want to continue receiving opinions, and you did ask for them, you might want to note that you will receive many you don't like or agree with. Doesn't mean they weren't offered in the spirit in which you requested them. If everyone agreed with you off the top, you might as well not ask, right?

I hear you but I don't think it was a receptiveness issue...and although I said I would read all comments on my thoughts, I didn't ask for their opinion nor would I accept being (in my opinion) attacked...I have already apologize for my rudeness to SNeacail.

If someone tells you they think it's unfair for you to require PK to be with women when she really doesn't have an interest in women and would rather be with men, that is called offering you an opinion, or another viewpoint you may not have considered. .

I have never nor would I ever required PK to be with women…she is pursuing her interest on her own…

If this is any indication of how you "listen"... no wonder there are communication issues in your relationship and she brought the idea of poly up in a text message. She probably didn't want to deal with the fallout of your reaction. .

Communication WAS an issue with us because I have been openly communicating with her since the beginning (3 years ago)…she just started communicating with me this month…

AND I can tell you that being called unfair will probably be the general consensus here - forcing someone you love to be with people she doesn't want to be with because of your insecurities... ugh. The idea of the "Alpha male" is meaningless and inconsequential here. That is no way to treat someone you care about.

I'm sorry but this is exactly what I'm talking about...she also beleives that most poly females here think I'm not being fair...take a closer look, I got called unfair and accused of be insecure…oh wait, there is a new one I’m now meaningless and inconsequential…I got to add those to my list....

ALL….

I really don’t mean to be…well me!!! But this is my blog about my thoughts…I had no idea that I would get this type of reaction…I mean really, I have an issue with the way anyone lives their sexual lives…nor would I ever pass judgment on them because they didn’t see things my way! I expect this type of activity from non-poly community but this community is full of all types…bi-male/female, gays, lesbians, and (most important) poly…the last thing I expected was to be told that I’m unfair and meaningless for having my feelings…

Last thing, for the record (again)…I never tried or will try to stop PK from having a loving intimate relationship with another man…I just can’t be a part of that situation! I never tried or even asked PK to be with women...that choice was all hers!

I can only hope I didn’t offend anyone but…these are my thoughts

Scott

01-27-2012, 04:19 AM

No...the question is not to personal...I'm not sure what your question is...but I'll tell you why I asked her not to comment on here...if she wants to discuss what I wrote then we (me and her) will discuss. What I don't want is her either defending me or trying to explain what I meant. If this didn't answer your question, please reask.

That answered my question, thanks :-)

nycindie

01-27-2012, 04:31 AM

oh wait, there is a new one I’m now meaningless and inconsequential…I got to add those to my list....
Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say you were meaningless and inconsequential. I said the idea of an Alpha male is meaningless and inconsequential, in terms of what you wrote about it. Since you seem to misunderstand and misinterpret alot of what people say here, I'm not sure I can re-word it so you'll know what I mean, but... basically you had blamed the fact that you will not "allow" PK to be with other men on you supposedly being an Alpha male, which pays lip service to some idea about being male instead of owning up to what's really behind it, like an insecurity, fear, or belief system in you. What I'm trying to say is that concept of being Alpha (which is just a concept) is no excuse for behavior that is unfair to a partner. It is known in poly lingo as a "One Penis Policy" or OPP. Do a search on that, and you will find lots of threads debating its validity.

What is really happening is not that you have allowed her to do something or not; in reality, she made a choice not to partake in activities she knows you will be unhappy with. But it is her choice -- you're not the boss of her life. She could be with men or anyone she wants, it isn't up to you what she does. The only choice you have is to stay or go. You each make your lives what you want. So, don't think that she is "obeying you as the Alpha Male" who will or will not "allow" her to do this or that. She is choosing your happiness over her own, but she doesn't have to do that.

newguy

01-27-2012, 05:39 AM

MY THOUGHTS

Ok…so tonight, I spent three hours reading and responding to posts on my blog of what I was thinking…I missed my chat time with PK to do this….

I now think, “Is it worth it?”

I have been called inconsiderate, traditional, old fashion, insecure, selfish, pigheaded, Neanderthal, controlling, insensitive, possessive, Dom, unreasonable, and unfair…I was told that I’m PK owner and I treat her like property and that my thoughts are meaningless and inconsequential.

Now I know that you may think that I took these statements/comments out of context or that I’m taking this too personal; but I don’t think so…in fact, some of them I agree with..

Here are the statements I made to earn some of these titles:

The thought of PK with another man turns my stomach (selfish)
I should have to be miserable so PK could obtain complete happiness (selfish)
I don’t want PK to have an intimate relationship with another man (possessive)
PK is my fiancé (ownership)
PK is my fiancé and I don’t want to share her with another man (ownership/selfish)
I don’t think I even want to try to be in that situation (pigheaded/unreasonable)
PK told me that I could be with another woman but she can’t be with another man (unfair)
PK is looking for a girlfriend (insecure/selfish)

I could go on but I think you get the point.

Things that I have contemplated/considered/learned in 2012. I offered a break up with PK so she could be have a chance at complete happiness with her poly lifestyle…she told me that she would rather be very happy with me than take a chance on complete happiness another.
I now understand that PK has had and will have these feelings forever…I now understand that I will have my feelings forever also.
PK lied to me when I asked her if she wanted another man…I really didn’t give her the option to tell me the truth then.
I falsely believe that during the last three years, we have had open communications…we still have a ways to go before I’ll believe that again.

I thought about the pros and cons of all of the things dealing with the poly lifestyle…in the way that we (PK and I) will make or not to our happy ever after…most importantly, I’m completing if I should end our relationship now (get the hurt over for us both) so we both can eventually have the chance at complete happiness.

CONS:
1) Anyway, from what I have learned about polyamorous, it’s a deep feeling within a person that they may (or may not) be able to suppress…
2) Even if PK does get a relationship with a woman and me, I feel that it won’t satisfy her poly needs…she will eventually want another man
3) I read that a lot of relationships ended after they started poly
4) I have been ridiculed (see list above) for my feelings on the matter
5) PK had been told to leave me
6) Poly people will always try to convince me that my thinking is wrong
7) In most of the poly relationship, someone crosses the set boundaries
8) Neither of us will ever have complete happiness

PROS:
1) PK is willing to honor my boundary (I only have one) because she loves me
2) I will honor PK’s boundaries because I love her
3) We both will be very happy together

I have weighed the pros and cons…it seems (from above)…the pros have it!!!! Yes, I can count but when I consider pro #2…the last three words…it makes sense to me. I love PK and I will always love her, even if we don’t make it…I will always be hers and long as she will have me!!!

[I]MY THOUGHTS OVER….

newguy

01-27-2012, 05:54 AM

Please don't put words in my mouth. I didn't say you were meaningless and inconsequential. I said the idea of an Alpha male is meaningless and inconsequential, in terms of what you wrote about it. Since you seem to misunderstand and misinterpret alot of what people say here, I'm not sure I can re-word it so you'll know what I mean, but... basically you had blamed the fact that you will not "allow" PK to be with other men on you supposedly being an Alpha male, which pays lip service to some idea about being male instead of owning up to what's really behind it, like an insecurity, fear, or belief system in you. What I'm trying to say is that concept of being Alpha (which is just a concept) is no excuse for behavior that is unfair to a partner. It is known in poly lingo as a "One Penis Policy" or OPP. Do a search on that, and you will find lots of threads debating its validity.

What is really happening is not that you have allowed her to do something or not; in reality, she made a choice not to partake in activities she knows you will be unhappy with. But it is her choice -- you're not the boss of her life. She could be with men or anyone she wants, it isn't up to you what she does. The only choice you have is to stay or go. You each make your lives what you want. So, don't think that she is "obeying you as the Alpha Male" who will or will not "allow" her to do this or that. She is choosing your happiness over her own, but she doesn't have to do that.

Ok...just to make sure I understand, out of all that I wrote, your point now is that I used Alpha Male wrongly and PK is choosing my happiness over her own...even though I was told that I was an Alpha Male by your peers (poly females), given that title based on my thinking...Alpha male is not a term that I coined for myself...it made since when it was explained to me by your peers so yes, I adobted it and wear it proudly...but again...all that I wrote, and you hit on that???

I'll accept that...and end with...."OK then"

nycindie

01-27-2012, 06:06 AM

Ok...just to make sure I understand...No, you aren't really understanding anything I wrote. Sorry to have muddied up your blog with my input which I have somehow expressed in a way that has been misinterpreted. When I first posted, I somehow missed the fact that this is in the Life Stories and Blogs section, so I will stop adding to it. Good luck with everything.

Phy

01-27-2012, 06:11 AM

To stick to the facts: I don't see the 'problem' being located with NewGuy alone. He said, he 'offered' to set her free and she didn't want that and stayed on his terms being set as basic rules. She accepted them, therefore I don't think that he is to blame for stating what he feels comfortable with or not, if she communicated that she would be fine with it.

We have talked about the whole mess you two are in already, NewGuy, I understand that you feel offended by many of the opinions voiced here, but please note that most are arguing based on concepts of equality for all. Those voices aren't purely female and they are not picking on you because of you being male and doing this. Anyone doing something this unbalanced to a partner would have received this answers.

newguy

01-27-2012, 01:23 PM

newguy

01-27-2012, 07:34 PM

JUST MY THOUGHTS

Boundaries....every poly relationship has boundaries. I have read a lot of stories, posts, and blogs on this site and others, were some poly relationship boundaries are broken by someone in the relationship.

My boundary...No longterm, intimate, sexual relationship with any man. Friendships are cool with anyone, dates cool, hanging out cool, but no sex. (men only)

Her boundaries:
1) No anal play with another woman at all (even if she wants it)
2) No hurting their feelings, if it's just sex she has to know
3) No fingers in strippers at the club
4) No sleeping with strippers
5) I (PK) want to meet the woman(s) that you have sex with

What PK really wants (for me) is that I have a steady girlfriend, that I will eventually fall in love with (even if she can't have another man).

My thoughts, I can't intimately and sexually love two (or more) women at the same time. My fear is if I give her what she want, then my love for her will deminish. I know (now) that there are folks that can do this...I am not one of them.

I don't want to have sex with other women...because I feel that it is unfair to PK. This is something that I told her a while ago before I ever knew about her Poly feelings. Now that I do know, and moved past the 'manipulation' feelings, I want sex with other women...I think that I (on some unknown level) feel the need to be with another to start the healing from the (pontetial) lose of PK.

I can't wait until she gets back from this deployment...I'll see her next month when I visit her but she won't be back until April.

THOUGHTS ENDED

newguy

01-28-2012, 10:20 PM

MY Thoughts
I'm going to see PK next month...EXCITED!!!!!

First visit since our open communication started...EXCITED!!!!

First visit since I found out about Poly.....Scared...

Ok...so I don't think it will be any different...not really worried but the thought did cross my mind if it may be awkard....

Anyway, I hope we will have the same fun as last time...lot of cuddling, hand holding, quality time. and a hell of a lot of sex!!!!

We went snorkling...then sex on the boat...skinny dipping...(I know some of you may think 'no big deal' but all of this was on a US military base...so excitingly illegal...

I CAN'T WAIT!!!!!!

MY Thoughts over....

Vixtoria

01-29-2012, 01:42 AM

Here's the thing, no one is wrong for how they feel. Feelings are allowed! No poly person is going to tell you you are wrong for how you feel. Poly people are not trying to tell you that you HAVE to be poly or you HAVE to have any kind of relationship. The point is, it's up to you what kind of relationship you want.

A lot of people here have a lot more experience with all kinds of relationships. You know what they say, "Good decisions come from experience, experience comes from bad decisions." So yeah, advice is offered in hopes other people don't have to gain the sometimes hard and heart breaking experience!

I've read, almost all the posts in all the threads, yours and PKs. Some opinions I keep to myself because, well honestly there are a lot of things people here believe or do that I personally would not or would not want. I don't care, if it works for them, then awesome, it's just not me. Other things, well they honestly upset me a lot. Here's some of the things I got from all your posts.

1. PK doesn't REALLY like women. At most she said 2% and there's actually been discussion on being afraid of vaginas. As a pansexual/bi woman, that offends me to no end! She's said she will try being with a woman because that is what you would be comfortable with. That's utter BS. Not because of what you want, but because SHE would do that. If it was me PK was trying to date and I found out HALF of that I'd be pissed, and feel used. She should NOT be dating women if she's afraid of vagina and only doing it because then she can date SOMEONE.

2. You don't want to be in a relationship with a woman who is dating other men. Fine. Dandy. Don't be. I'm terribly sorry to break this to you but just because you love someone doesn't mean you HAVE to have a relationship with them. It doesn't even mean you SHOULD! It hurts, yeah, I've loved people that together we were just not good for each other. Love doesn't end, but relationships sometimes have to. You want to make compromises for each other, that is AWESOME! It doesn't mean it will work. Compromising on having a sex buddy and only when you can't have who you want is, degrading. To everyone.

Arrowbound

01-29-2012, 02:49 AM

1. PK doesn't REALLY like women. At most she said 2% and there's actually been discussion on being afraid of vaginas. As a pansexual/bi woman, that offends me to no end! She's said she will try being with a woman because that is what you would be comfortable with. That's utter BS. Not because of what you want, but because SHE would do that. If it was me PK was trying to date and I found out HALF of that I'd be pissed, and feel used. She should NOT be dating women if she's afraid of vagina and only doing it because then she can date SOMEONE.

2. You don't want to be in a relationship with a woman who is dating other men. Fine. Dandy. Don't be. I'm terribly sorry to break this to you but just because you love someone doesn't mean you HAVE to have a relationship with them. It doesn't even mean you SHOULD! It hurts, yeah, I've loved people that together we were just not good for each other. Love doesn't end, but relationships sometimes have to. You want to make compromises for each other, that is AWESOME! It doesn't mean it will work. Compromising on having a sex buddy and only when you can't have who you want is, degrading. To everyone.

I second every bit of this.

newguy

01-29-2012, 04:51 AM

Vixtoria,

Thanks for sharing your opinion.

Arrowbound,

Thanks for co-signing Vixtoria's opinion.

I have considered what you said and I can tell you that I told (informed) PK that I DIDN'T want her to be with a woman for me...In fact, I have been asking her to leave me because I don't think my feelings will ever change. I love her to much to leave her so I can't be the one to 'break it off'...I'm hers until she finds another...

Now, when you say, "Compromising on having a sex buddy and only when you can't have who you want is, degrading." Not sure if that ws for me or PK...if it was for me, I'm lost of the degrading part....I was not in a relationship, (before) and had sex buddies...they knew that it wasn't going anywhere else...they liked that fact as much as I did....are you saying that just sex between two people if they both agree that it's just sex and nothing more is degrading?....

Please don't think that I'm twisting your words...just trying to get a better understanding...

nycindie

01-29-2012, 05:11 AM

newguy

01-29-2012, 05:22 AM

No, she's saying that basically the compromising part is degrading. That if you want a loving relationship/partnership but give in and agree instead to a sex buddy just because that's all that's being offered, it is degrading to oneself and as well as to the other person. It would be letting yourself be used for sex when it's not what you really want. If both people really want it, that's cool.

Ok...degrading to PK...

Let me say this, PK would never use anyone (male or female) as a sex buddy...yes, she is trying to see if she could have an intimate relationship with a woman...will it lead to sex? I don't know...will the relationship even develop? Again, I don't know...will she have sex with anyone for the sake of sex, NO...

So there is no chance of PK having a sex buddy...if anything, she would be the one on that sex buddy side of any relationship.

Thanks for responding and clarifying....

nycindie

01-29-2012, 05:30 AM

Ok...degrading to PK...And degrading to the other person she'd be a "fuck buddy' with. You have to think about the other person, too. It's not just about you and PK when there's another person.

That was another major point of Vixtoria's post. From the point of view of the woman PK would get involved with, if PK really wanted a relationship with a man but got involved with a woman just because she wasn't "allowed" to have a man, that woman would feel used and unimportant. No one wants to be second choice.

newguy

01-29-2012, 05:36 AM

HELLO ALL....

I asking you all to please don't critize PK on this thread...I have asked her not to respond or post because these are my thoughts adn I didn't want her defending me or trying to explain to you guys what I meant....so, because she chose to honor my reqeust, I don't feel it fair for her to be critized without her being able to respond...

I know that you may feel differently and want to express your feeling and if you feel the need to critize PK, please use one of our other threads....

Now as for me...have at it...critize all you want...her or on other threads.

Thanks in advance for your consideration in this matter.

WR,

Newguy

newguy

01-29-2012, 06:02 AM

Ok...degrading to PK...

Let me say this, PK would never use anyone (male or female) as a sex buddy...yes, she is trying to see if she could have an intimate relationship with a woman...will it lead to sex?

So did you read this part???? I mean before you posted the below???

And degrading to the other person she'd be a "fuck buddy' with. You have to think about the other person, too. It's not just about you and PK when there's another person.

That was another major point of Vixtoria's post. From the point of view of the woman PK would get involved with, if PK really wanted a relationship with a man but got involved with a woman just because she wasn't "allowed" to have a man, that woman would feel used and unimportant. No one wants to be second choice.

I think you did read it all...so I would assume that the statement still saying PK would even have a "fuck buddy" was just a filler to get your next part in...

OK, you say "no one wants to be second choice" but most Poly relationship have a primary (husband or wife) and a SECONDary...or thirdary ect.

Or...are you now trying to say that Vixtoria was trying to say that because PK is exploring the possibility of loving another woman...and IF they (PK and the other woman) falls in love with each other, the other woman should feel used because PK didn't know she could love a woman until it happened?....

Or...could it be that you needed another way of saying that I won't "allow" PK to be with another man...have you been reading my thoughts? PK is "allowed" to love whomever she choses.

You see, I thought your first comment of explaining Vixtoria statement made sense (even though it may or may not be accurate because Vixtoria is the only one who KNOWS what she meant)...but this comment on what was Vixtoria's major points, sounds more like your instead of hers....

Either way, I'll say again...PK would never have sex with anyone just for the sake of having sex...that with a male, female, or hermapherdite (sp)

nycindie

01-29-2012, 06:35 AM

No, I get what you're saying. What I wrote was just an illustration. I know you've said she can do what she wants, and you would rather leave her than be poly but you can't leave because it hurts too much, so you want her to decide. And I know she's said she will be with a woman, even though vaginas scare her, because she feels like being with a man would hurt you too much.

What I wrote was just to illustrate a point, and everything we're saying is hypothetical. If this, if that... you know?

And we are not criticizing her or you, but we are critiquing an approach you two are considering. There are plenty of members here who are in relationships together, and it isn't criticism to talk to one person about the other, to help solve a problem. We all know both of you can read the thread. Now, critiquing is different from criticizing, it is just a way of talking about good points and bad points about something. Try to understand that everyone here shares opinions to be helpful.

So, my explanation was an illustration IF she felt she wasn't allowed to be with a man and chose to be with a woman. Because she thought you could live better with that instead. And that is almost the same as if you were forbidding her because...

Either way, the woman she chooses to be with would not be her first choice. PK would rather be with a guy, so the woman is second. Like, saying, "I want vanilla ice cream, but all they have is chocolate, so I guess I'll have chocolate." That is what I meant by "no one wants to be second choice." It has nothing to do with "primary," or "secondary," it has everything to do with not being the first choice someone wants. Would you like it if someone walked up to you and said, "I'd really rather be with that guy over there, but you'll do." It's making a compromise to have less than what you want, and the person you're settling for feels like shit about it, too. Get it?

NovemberRain

01-29-2012, 07:33 AM

Like, saying, "I want vanilla ice cream, but all they have is vanilla, so I guess I'll have that." That is what I meant by "no one wants to be second choice."

I think you meant, 'I want chocolate, but all that's available is vanilla. So, I'll have vanilla.'

?

nycindie

01-29-2012, 07:50 AM

I think you meant, 'I want chocolate, but all that's available is vanilla. So, I'll have vanilla.'

Oops, I see my mistake. Now I edited it to reflect my first choice: vanilla. I've been known to turn down ice cream altogether, if I couldn't have vanilla.

Icewraithonyx

01-29-2012, 01:36 PM

I'm a little curious. Is there a reason the issue of additional relationships, in whatever form, cannot be "postponed" for a little while? Do these decisions have to be made right now?

A lot of people introduce polyamory as a concept, let it rest for awhile, and then continue the discussion later, if needed. Or if this is a deal-breaker, decide whether to stay together or not.

I think Newguy already made his position clear about additional relationships: no. If PK still needs polyamory, she needs a different fiance. If she needs Newguy, she needs to give up non-monogamy.

My 2 cents.

Vixtoria

01-29-2012, 01:36 PM

Just a quick note, NYCindie had it right. As far as what I found degrading. Just sex is cool as long as everyone is on the same page. Have at it! Feeling you are in a relationship with someone because they can't have what they want so they took you is like being picked last in dodgeball. It sucks.

As I said, I've read all the threads so far and reading them all the understanding you get is that PK wants to be able to have a relationship with a man. To do this, to explore this part of herself she wanted YOU to have a relationship with a woman. That approach was critiqued as not the best one. Later it was stated that you were uncomfortable with her having an intimate relationship with another man, your boundary and that's fine, so she decided she would try with a woman. That approach was critiqued as not a good one.

Finally, the thing about primary and secondary? Please don't be fooled into thinking that meant someone is put into a second place or not as important or even just settled for. Most poly people would be unhappy that is your assumption. Labels are just that, labels, they are short hand for explaining something much more complicated. For many of us, we use the term primary simply because of how entangled our lives are. For example, the person you live with, share finances with, children with, own property with might be your primary but that does not make your other 'secondary' relationship any less. There is no 'who would you choose?' going on.

Each relationship is CHOSEN, we don't just date anyone that sparks our interest or we find attractive. When having multiple relationships you are multiplying the work of a relationship to the nth degree sometimes! So every relationship is chosen, not settled for.

** Disclaimer**
(Yes I was talking in the general 'we' at the end. No this is not true for everyone. It is, like many things, a generalization. Welcome to individuality! Can't fit us all in a box! We are the platypi!)

newguy

01-31-2012, 06:00 PM

MY THOUGHTS....
18 days until I see PK.....

Not sure if I'm looking forward to our first face-to-face discussion on Poly...but it has to happen...

I think, (MY THOUGHTS ONLY) that if we would have had the initial conversation in person, I would have been more incline to 'try' it because when we are together, I haven't be able to bring myself to say no to any of her requests...but, this is a big one...not sure if my feelings would have let her have her way. One would never know...

But, I'm glad that she knows where I stand and I know where she stands...I love her and never want to be without her...

END MY THOUGHTS

SNeacail

01-31-2012, 06:43 PM

There is nothing wrong with saying "Hey, you caught me off guard and I had a knee jerk reaction. Let's start this discussion from the beginning now that we have both had more time to think about things." Keep it civil and agree to take a break when things start getting out of hand. Both of you need to remember small baby steps, your not trying to reach the top of the mountain the first day out, you are only trying to go the first 1/4 mile or so. Do NOT let the whole visit be about this one topic, HAVE FUN TOGETHER :D!

newguy

02-07-2012, 03:57 PM

MY THOUGHTS

10 days and a wake up before I see MY (possesive) PK!!!!

PK sent me my clearance letter today...I'm allowed to "come in the country"...It still schocks me that I have to get permission to enter another country from my country...and I'm not talking about a passport...got that, I'm talking about "yes, you CAN come to this country that is not our" type of premission. I mean, this would be like me telling someone, "I'm going over to Jim's house to stay; althought Jim say you can come, you have to ask me first"...but I digress, why?... Cause I love my country and wouldn't trade it for the world!!!!

Anyway, I went on a platonic (sp) date (with a friend of PK and I) this weekend...needed a date for the Mardi Gras Ball...I attend the ball with my Motorcycle Club members and their significant (who all know PK) and got mixed reviews about bringing another woman around...but when I explained that PK knew and that this was not a sexual/intimate thing and that we (PK, my date, and I) are all friends; it seemed to reassure some...but a couple of them was still doubtful.

The ball was Great...my date was charming and made a great 'accessory' to my...well to me! :) Now, knowing how PK don't like to dance and I do...this would be a good situation, I have 'accessories' (dates) for dancing (and going to events PK don't want too) without sex...

My thought was, "Is this Poly?...it's a relationship, but not intimate or sexual."...My answer is Nope, not Poly...just friends...but hell, until this year I had no idea what poly was...so what do I know.

In fact, I do have that situation...I have another friend (Tee); her and I often go to events that PK don't want to attend, PK and her are friends, and I love her in a sisterly way...everyone see us together and thinks we are a couple until they see PK, Tee, and I are out and I'm all over PK...

Tee and I have a loving relationship where she tells me that she loves me and I realize that I feel the same; but not in a sexual way (mainly because she don't do oral, giving or receiving; i'm big on giving oral, like recieving it too;))...Anyway, Tee and I took our kids (hers and mine) on vacation to Six Flags (PK didn't want to go)...Tee even threw PK a going away party before her deployment.

Am I Poly and didn't know it?....I wonder.

END MY THOUGHTS

newguy

02-07-2012, 04:02 PM

10 days and a wake up before I see MY (possesive) PK!!!!

Hey, I forgot to say this statement was a joke only based on another post...please read as such....

Thanks in Advance,

NG

newguy

02-09-2012, 01:25 PM

MY THOUGHTS
8 day and a wake-up!!!

Still excited about seeing PK!!!!

We had a 'different' conversation last night, you know that say you can't teach an old dog new tricks...Wrong!! I learned something new last night...but it wasn't a trick...well I guess it was in its own way.

Anyway, I learned last night that PK DOES want to swing...ok, whole story...

PK is sometime attracted to guys by sent…this attraction is (for lack of better works) animalistic…meaning, it is a strong sexual attraction not based on looks, compatibility, or emotions…just sex. Pheromones is how PK describes it to me…my thoughts, I’m not sure if I buy the pheromones thingy…PK has this attraction with a guy where she is now…it is so strong that whenever she is around the guy, she can’t function normally. BTW, this is not the first guy that she had these feelings for…in the past, PK and I have given them a name of ‘9’ (after the movie Love Potion # 9); so, when she had these feelings, she acted on them only to feel (with one of them) regretful of her actions afterwards (with one of the 9s, they were friends before and no regrets there). Now I have given PK the option to have sex with guys (no emotions) but she never acted on them because she didn’t like the regretful feeling of not having an emotional connection.

With 9s, PK make questionable decisions that left her hurt and regretful, so when she told me about this guy (who I immediately noticed that he just wanted sex), I tried to remind her of her past feelings of non-emotional sex…so, last night (after a hour of talking) she reminds me that she knows that he just want sex….but in this case, so does she want just sex.

I feel like when she decides to have sex with this guy, and it’s just sex, she will be again in that regretful phase…background, the last time PK was overseas, she had just sex with a couple of guys and for the most part, we can’t even talk about it because of her feelings/regrets about this encounters. I don’t want to see her hurt or regretful but I have done all that I can do…

Wow,…that was a lot! Didn’t think (or know) that it would be this long…all to say PK is swinging…and I hope it don’t end in regret…again.

Last thought…I wonder if I’m ok with this because I didn’t think it would ever happen? Could I have been just acting ok because I thought she would never do this? I do know that prior to our Poly discussions, we were on a mono (with no additions) path…since then, I say sure about the occasional fuck without emotions…but now I wonder if it was because of our talks about how that’s not what she wants…wonder if Poly was an avenue to get to the ‘just sex’ path? Either way, we will be alright, but this will never be another ‘I don’t want to talk about it’ subject…I think this will be a real test of my feelings on this issue PK being non-mono.

END MY THOUGHTS