Bi Assumptions

[ThatGirlInGray]

Admittedly I've only been browsing the forum for 2 days, but I have noticed what seems to be a higher-than-average number of bisexual people here. I know there's some overlap of the LGBT and Poly communities, at least where I am, but here's what I've been wondering:

Do you think being Bi makes someone more likely to be open to the idea of poly? Does being attracted to more than one gender have an effect on the way we look at relationships in general?

I realized I was Bi before I realized I was poly, but looking back at my high school dating history I think being poly is why I'd break up with a guy when I wanted to go out with someone new. I didn't know dating both was even an option! (And dating girls wasn't an option at my high school back then. It just wasn't.)

The other reason for starting this thread (and for the title) is to vent- OHMYGOD I'm tired of people that I'm out to assuming that because I'm Bi and married to a male that I'm automatically looking for a female because that's "what you're missing" or some crap like that. No, actually, I'm Bi because I'm attracted to BOTH genders and fall for the PERSON, regardless of their gender. Most of my relationships have been with guys, turns out. Whether that's leftover social conditioning or because I have a tendency to pick the psycho chicks, I don't know. But I have my husband and my partner (both male) and I'm happy. As far as I'm concerned these relationships are for the rest of my life and are going to keep me more than busy enough- I'm not looking to add anyone else so me being Bi is sort of a moot point now.

So, have at it- a thread to talk about how being bi does or doesn't affect you being poly, or vice versa. Or realizing you were bi, or realizing you really WEREN'T bi. Whatever.

(And mods, if this is a duplicate I'm sorry! I checked the threads tagged "bisexuality" and didn't see anything that had been posted to in the past year or so that seemed similar.)

[AnnabelMore]

Being bi led pretty directly to being poly for me. I figured out I was bi in late middle school, and by early high school I was actively fantasizing about being in a mff triad because how hot and perfect would that be?? From there I began learning more about the topic of multi-person relationships, learned the lingo, etc, and eventually came to let go of my idea of my "ideal", as so many do.

[Castalia]

I have often wondered the same thing. I'm not bi per-say just a little fuzzy on the lines and I hate labels. I am not against the idea of dating a women at some point but I also don't know many women and I am usually "one of the boys," so its not terribly likely to happen.
But regardless of that, I have this assumption that maybe bi-sexual people are just naturally a little more open minded. Like I said I don't know whether it is true but I have often wondered.
Another observation I have had is that there seem to be a large number of poly people who are gamers, (rpg's or mmo's), or who are members of alternative religions,(pagan or new age for example). Is this because these things require a person to think outside of the box or is there some other underlying commonality?

[km34]

I am pretty much like you, GirlinGray. Being bi isn't WHY I'm poly. I just happen to be both. My first step into poly was actually with a secondary male partner. Right now I am in a relationship with another woman, but that is just the way it happened.

I do know a lot of married bi women, though, that would not say they are poly but would still be open to dating/a romantic relationship with another woman. So by definition they could be considered polyamorous (capable of loving more than one), but they don't consider the love for a man and the love for a woman to be the same kind of love, so they don't feel a need to change their status from monogamous to something more encompassing.

[ThatGirlInGray]

Another observation I have had is that there seem to be a large number of poly people who are gamers, (rpg's or mmo's), or who are members of alternative religions,(pagan or new age for example). Is this because these things require a person to think outside of the box or is there some other underlying commonality?

Oooo, good point! All three of us are gamers (though I'm not much of a video gamer- FPS make me dizzy!) and we have an ex-JW, ex-Catholic, and ex-Baptist among us, so we're all practiced at throwing off some of the conditioning we got as kids.

We're all big sci-fi geeks too. I was a Heinlein fan LONG before I ever learned the word "polyamorous". :)

[AnnabelMore]

I think the connection is that both geeks and poly folks like to way overthink things and choose the more complicated options -- rolling up D&D characters instead of just watching sports, juggling multiple relationships instead of just practicing serial monogamy.

[vanille]

I call myself bicurious. Though I also wonder sometimes if I'm asexual. So it's a dilemma. I did experiment in high school, though never past making out. I also developed what I could call 'crushes' on a couple of girls in high school. These were particular girls that I found very attractive and I just wanted to constantly be around. But I'm not exactly sure if that qualifies as a crush, as my crushes on boys had the added effect of butterflies in my stomach which was not necessarily the case with girls.

I could see myself dating a girl. I'm not positive if I could have sex with one. It's not that I think the idea is gross. I just have never really sexually fantasized about women going that far.

On the other hand, sometimes I wonder if I'm asexual. This makes me wonder if I'm allowed to be called bisexual at all. I am attracted to both sexes, however sex is not a natural drive for me. I'm not a extremely physical person (as far as kissing, sex, or PDA).

One argument I have for not disqualifying myself from being bisexual because of the possible asexuality is that I believe you can be heterosexual and asexual at the same time. I've been in a relationship with a man for ten years. I love him and am attracted to him. Just because sex isn't natural for me, doesn't mean I do not seek companionship.

And this leads to my final dilemma. If I am in fact bisexual AND asexual, I wonder how difficult it would be to date a girl. In the poly world, I would imagine she could have another to satisfy her sexually. However, I'm just not sure how likely that scenario is. Sometimes I imagine a V with my husband as the hinge would be for the best as then I can be close to the girl without necessarily having sex with her. Can a triad even be a possibility?

I think people who are bi may tend to be more open to the possibility of polyamory because they have already demonstrated that they are more open minded when it comes to love.

ETA: To not appear to be making a contradiction against my other threads -- while I contemplate being asexual, I do still have sex just about every other day with my husband. However, this is mainly because I know that it is important to him. I would probably never instigate if left to my own devices and would not be affected if he suddenly lost all of his sex drive.

[km34]

My husband plays strategy games (used to LARP in high school), but nobody else that I know who is poly is a gamer. Fiona is atheist - looking into Buddhism. I still identify as Christian although I don't really believe any religion is right for me. However, I did practice shaking off societal norms years ago when Keith and I decided to start swinging so I'm sure that that helped me embrace this part of myself more than I realize.

[Phy]

Do you think being Bi makes someone more likely to be open to the idea of poly? Does being attracted to more than one gender have an effect on the way we look at relationships in general?

I have to say: no, at least not for me. I knew that I was bi since my last school years, when I was strongly attracted to a female friend. I didn't understand poly at all, when I first recognized that I fell in love with another man years later.


I realized I was Bi before I realized I was poly,[...]

The other reason for starting this thread (and for the title) is to vent- OHMYGOD I'm tired of people that I'm out to assuming that because I'm Bi and married to a male that I'm automatically looking for a female because that's "what you're missing" or some crap like that. No, actually, I'm Bi because I'm attracted to BOTH genders and fall for the PERSON, regardless of their gender. Most of my relationships have been with guys, turns out. [...] But I have my husband and my partner (both male) and I'm happy. As far as I'm concerned these relationships are for the rest of my life and are going to keep me more than busy enough- I'm not looking to add anyone else so me being Bi is sort of a moot point now.


I just have to second all of this :D I have never been in love with a woman up to now, just generally feel a strong attraction. But I am not a person that falls in love easily, it has happened three times in my whole life up to now in a romantic way. The rest was just about physical attraction, curiosity and chance. Can't say that it will never happen, but I am not actively searching.


Another observation I have had is that there seem to be a large number of poly people who are gamers, (rpg's or mmo's)

Don't know if this is some kind of personality trait, but count us in. Lin and I are geeks/nerds by heart and very fond of everything that is out there rpg, mmo or generally video game-wise. Sward has some preferences as well, but they are special even in our opinion ^.^

[vanille]

Fiona is atheist - looking into Buddhism.
<snip>
I still identify as Christian although I don't really believe any religion is right for me.

I find it interesting -- the tie between Atheism and Buddhism. I see more and more Atheists (including myself) seeking something "a little more" and wondering if Buddhism could offer that.

Interesting. I always wondered how Christians deal with polyamory.

Oh. And I'm a gamer too!

[ThatGirlInGray]

I like watching sports TOO! And I'm the only person in my household who does. *sigh*

vanille, that sounds like quite a perplexing issue. I wish you luck trying to figure out what you want/need as far as relationships and companionship goes. I have a very good friend who I think might be asexual, but he and I have never really discussed it. In the long long ago, it may have played a role in why he and I didn't work, but there were lots of other factors too. I'm not exactly addicted to sex, but I have a STRONG sex drive and have never understood some of the attitudes about sex being something to be hidden or ashamed of (though privacy is of course fine) or that women are just supposed to "put up" with sex to keep their partners happy. Eff. That.

[km34]

I always wondered how Christians deal with polyamory.

I identify as Christian in the tradition of Christian meaning 'Christ like.' Jesus taught love, compassion, kindness, and general being a good person. I'm all about that. He taught self-sacrifice for the good of the whole. I try to be like that - I fail more often than not, but I still consider myself a work in progress.

As for Fiona looking into Buddhism... Her doctor suggested meditating as a way to lower her blood pressure. Meditating made her think of Buddhism, she decided to look into it. I really don't think she is going to like it as a religion (I think she is rather anti-established religion even if she doesn't realize it) but I think it would be great if she found something she could believe in so that she could find more people she could relate to.

[vanille]

<snip> or that women are just supposed to "put up" with sex to keep their partners happy. Eff. That.

I hope I didn't come across that way. I don't just "lie there like a fish" praying it will be over with. I take satisfaction in knowing that I am doing something that my husband enjoys. I know it's important to him and I take joy in trying to perfect that art. I'm happy when he is happy.

I identify as Christian in the tradition of Christian meaning 'Christ like.' Jesus taught love, compassion, kindness, and general being a good person. I'm all about that. He taught self-sacrifice for the good of the whole. I try to be like that - I fail more often than not, but I still consider myself a work in progress.
<snip>
I really don't think she is going to like it as a religion

Ah, I get your point in regards to Christianity.

I think the link between Atheism and Buddhism is that it's not necessary to call it an organized religion. She can take what she wants (learning compassion, karma, acceptance of suffering .. etc) and leave whatever she does not need. There are many branches of Buddhism and I'm sure there is something for most people.

I feel like it's made me more accepting of life and not as afraid of death.

Don't discount it yet :)

[ThatGirlInGray]

Husband and I both identify as Agnostic, ThatGuyInBlack (partner) identifies as...I honestly don't know. There's a belief in a higher power, but I think he falls somewhere between Christianity and paganism. I have a friend who is straight, possibly poly, and Buddhist but I've never really talked to him about it.

As far as how Christianity deals with polyamory, I've been thinking about this in regards to how I come out to my Catholic mom (in a few years). In the Old Testament there were plenty of mistresses, so I figure (if there is a) God can't be COMPLETELY opposed to multiple partners. Ultimately, I don't see God be against love in any form that respects and satisfies all parties involved, whether it's poly, gay marriage, etc. Luckily my mom agrees about gay marriage- she doesn't think religion should have ANYTHING to do with the legal status of a committed relationship, so I already know she's more willing to be reasonable and open-minded than some Catholics. However, she still flipped out when it was HER daughter who came out as Bi. :-/ So, we shall see.

And thanks for the responses, you guys! Y'all are FAST!

[ThatGirlInGray]

I hope I didn't come across that way. I don't just "lie there like a fish" praying it will be over with. I take satisfaction in knowing that I am doing something that my husband enjoys. I know it's important to him and I take joy in trying to perfect that art. I'm happy when he is happy.


No no, not at all! That comment of mine was totally separate and comes from being part of a family where my grandmother gave birth ELEVEN TIMES because she was "doing her duty" as a wife.

[AnnabelMore]

To be fair, it's easy to take a pot spot at sports, but I do watch football. :)

[AnnabelMore]

Speaking of poly and the bible, Abraham and Sarah totally had a unicorn -- Hagar. She was younger and subservient (literally a slave) and they had her bear a child for Abraham. But then Sarah flipped out because she felt like Hagar was getting uppity (so common amongst unicorn hunters...) and kicked Hagar out. God told Hagar to be a good girl and respect the primary couple, and she was allowed to come back until Sarah flipped out AGAIN and kicked Hagar and her son Ishmael out for good when her own kid, Isaac, was born.

Aside from adding the poly terminology, I'm not making a word of this up. Unhealthy poly relationships are an ancient phenomenon...

[AnnabelMore]

A painting of the happy vee: http://deepintoscripture.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/07/LAGRENEE_Sarah_Presenting_Hagar_to_Abraham___sourc e_sandstead_d2h_83.jpg

[ThatGuyInBlack]

I don't think being bisexual had anything to do with me being poly, personally, as I was heavily closeted from even myself for about 9/10 of my life. Call it a product of my upbringing and environmental factors. I love Texas, but a lot of the people here can take a long walk off a short pier.

I will say that being poly kind of opened the door for me to embrace my bisexuality. I'm really not sure why. It's sort of like "Well, I opened this door... I might as well open the next one and see what's back there! Could be a new car!"

So far I haven't found a car.

[SNeacail]

Speaking of poly and the bible, Abraham and Sarah totally had a unicorn -- Hagar. She was younger and subservient (literally a slave) and they had her bear a child for Abraham. But then Sarah flipped out because she felt like Hagar was getting uppity (so common amongst unicorn hunters...) and kicked Hagar out. God told Hagar to be a good girl and respect the primary couple, and she was allowed to come back until Sarah flipped out AGAIN and kicked Hagar and her son Ishmael out for good when her own kid, Isaac, was born.

Aside from adding the poly terminology, I'm not making a word of this up. Unhealthy poly relationships are an ancient phenomenon...

Abraham also had quite a few concubines who bore him children, which are barely mentioned. Keeping in mind that throughout the bible, women are property, the bible doesn't strictly forbid multiple spouses or even hordes of concubines.

[nycindie]

I checked the threads tagged "bisexuality" and didn't see anything that had been posted to in the past year or so that seemed similar.

Sometimes you just have to do a regular or advanced search rather than a tag search, because not every thread gets tagged. But here are some other discussions you may find relevant (I might start tagging them). BTW, resurrecting very old threads is perfectly fine to do here... :

Gay, Bi-, Queer Polyamory (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?p=103515)

Survey Question (r.e., bisexuality & biamory) (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2987)

Female bisexuality (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1687)

Labels: Poly, Mono, heterosexual, homosexual, etc. (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=2589)

why "poly women" are bisexual ??? (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3528)

Why are YOU poly? (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3034)

[geminisag511]

Wow- you have a cool couple AND a boyfriend? Now THAT is the LIFE! LOL

[ThatGirlInGray]

I've read through 2/3 of those threads. It's...a lot. Some hard to read, some I want to respond to even though it was originally posted over a year ago, some I need to process more or re-read before I do anything!

[NovemberRain]

Do you think being Bi makes someone more likely to be open to the idea of poly? Does being attracted to more than one gender have an effect on the way we look at relationships in general?


Interesting thread :D

I hadn't thought about it, but I think it did affect some for me. Some in the ways that others have mentioned, thinking outside the box; and some for just wanting balance. (I'm also a libra, and slightly obsessed with balance)

I discovered I was attracted to girls in high school (though found a pic of a butch girl I crushed on at girl scout camp and realized it maybe started earlier). I grew up with dad's playboy subscription on the reading stand in the bathroom. I mostly read the cartoons and the jokes, but it was pretty female-centric and titillating. I found some article in the newspaper my senior year in high school, there was a lot of political gay liberation going on then, for discussion/extra credit in class. I remember thinking 'I didn't know girls were an option!' I had hard crushes on two classmates and a teacher. Next year at college I got involved in some of the politics and it was very odd that everyone I met just assumed I was gay. I wanted to 'belong' in the culture, and it seemed so accepting.

My first girlfriend was a woman who dated the boy who was my bf in my freshman year. It was his second senior year and he dated her. I was totally jealous. She was gorgeous. We were the only two girls who rode motorcycles to school ~ I always wanted to kick hers over (but I didn't). She's now a man. My second gf always talked about wanting to be a man and how she really was a man, but she would never get the surgery. It was the first gf that I almost entered into triad with (but they tried to go into the bedroom without me, and I was damned if I was gonna wait. so it never flew).

I always harbored the thought that MFF would get me both, and that might be ideal. I just never met people who were good at sharing. I haven't been excellent at sharing, either. The straw that broke the camel's back when I asked current bf to move out was that he was emotionally sharing with online peeps. Things he refused to share with me.

I had no idea poly was so popular among gamers. Can't decide if I like that or not. Both my men are gamers and it hasn't exactly been good for me. But all the friends I've met through them are pretty cool folks, and more poly than you might expect to find in a more random sample.

[ThatGirlInGray]

Interesting thread :D Thanks! :)

I remember thinking 'I didn't know girls were an option!' Yes, THIS! Only I was a freshman in college. Both my men are gamers and it hasn't exactly been good for me. I hear that! I'm only an rpg gamer, not a computer or video gamer, so for me it's a social thing. I don't get their hours watching a screen, playing by themselves. (upon reflection, pun/innuendo not intended but totally apt :p)

[ThatGuyInBlack]

Play Skyrim for 30 minutes. 30 minutes, and I guarantee you'll understand me so much better, Gray.:p

[NovemberRain]

play skyrim for 30 minutes. 30 minutes, and i guarantee you'll understand me so much better, gray.:p

fus ro dah!

[eta: why don't my capital letters work?! :P]

[Phy]

Play Skyrim for 30 minutes. 30 minutes, and I guarantee you'll understand me so much better, Gray.:p

*like :p

[ThatGuyInBlack]

See?! They get it!

I... I feel really close to you two right now. I'd hug you, but I took an arrow to the knee.

K, I'll stop hijacking now, Gray :P

[ThatGirlInGray]

Good for them. And you. I think I'll stay comfortable in my ignorance on this subject, though. ;)

[ThatGuyInBlack]

Fine. More mammoths for me!

[Somegeezer]

I often use bisexuality as a great push into describing how poly is a good idea.

You enjoy both male and female, but can only choose one at a time? Wouldn't you rather have both? But of course, there are other differences other than the obvious. Even between two females or two males. Even a room full of 100 people... They all bring something different to the table. All the possibilities of amazing people...

Or something like that. =]

I'm not bisexual myself, but I think if I were female, I at least could be. Possibly. But I'll never find out in this life. =]

[RfromRMC]

I haven't read all the many responses yet but wanted to add what I could...


Do you think being Bi makes someone more likely to be open to the idea of poly? Does being attracted to more than one gender have an effect on the way we look at relationships in general?


You're probably on to something. While I would never go so far as to say something generic and over-broad as "Bi's are more likely to be poly." No, that'd be irresponsible, probably.
However, I WILL say that bisexuals might be more open-minded to accept polyamory as a valid route to go, because they are more likely to understand the benefits it has for them.

Heterosexuals kinda have this expectation on them that they'll grow up, get married (monogamously), have kids, etc etc. LGBT folks...once they are out and comfortable in their sexuality...are less likely to have this as an expectation to live up to, in my view.

And it's not just bisexuals as compared to straights....I also think bi's are more likely to understand poly concepts than gays, too. (At least that's been my experience, both in friends and in dating---bi guys just seem to grasp the concept easier than the gay ones I talk to.)

[km34]

I'd hug you, but I took an arrow to the knee.


UGH! Facebook and hanging out with a few of my friends has been painful for me ever since Skyrim came out. I'm pretty sure I saw over 50 comments about arrows to the knee in the last 24 hours. And I keep my friends list down to like 150!

[ThatGirlInGray]

Wow, that beats me! I think I only saw two. TGIB has a tendency to speak in meme, which half the time he then has to explain to me. :p

[ThatGuyInBlack]

I'm a meme-aholic.. I admit it.

[Castalia]

We're all gamers here too. Mmo's, WOW and Starcraft, I don't play Starcraft and only irregularly play WOW, Madscientist plays Starcraft and Gamerboy plays WOW, and we all play rpgs together. Gamerboy taught me how to play Magic and WOW when we first got together and I started playing rpgs so Madscientist and Gamerboy could have a larger enough group to play.
I blame them for turning me into such a geek. :cool:

[Somegeezer]

Please keep stuff on topic guys. =]

[ThatGirlInGray]

Why? Not trying to be snarky, asking an honest question.

People are still welcome to make on-topic posts. Castalia's post WAS on topic, insofar as the idea got brought up that there are other commonalities of people who are poly. So were other posts on this very page. A few posts were more "social"- this isn't an "issue" thread. I'm not asking for help or advice (I understand it would be QUITE rude to hijack a thread where someone is upset and trying to work through something). I asked for people's thoughts, and perhaps the conversation wandered a bit. Is that so bad?

[Iktomi]

both my husband and i are bisexual (pansexual, actually). and being bi is the main reason for being poly, for me. i just don't crave another male's touch as much as i crave a females'. but, i would say, being kinky also has a lot to do with my wanting to be poly, because the local kink community has some poly people who are also kinky and family oriented... and i looked at that and said, "hey, that looks like something i would love!"

[ThatGirlInGray]

I would say that's as good a reason as any to want to explore poly!

I don't know much about kink. I'm fine with whatever consenting adults want to do, but beyond some VERY light BDSM I have no desire to be involved in it. TGIB (partner) has had an online D/s relationship and he and I have talked about trying it, but ultimately decided there wasn't any point for us. Have you noticed a big overlap between the kink community and LGBTQ community in your area? That's one I haven't paid attention to around here.

[Iktomi]

actually, i haven't seen much overlap at all between the kink and LGBTQ community, but there's a sizeable overlap between the kink and poly communities. on the other hand, most of the kinky women i know are pansexual or bisexual, but not part of the LGBTQ community. i think a lot of us are not involved with the LGBTQ community because we have male primaries, so we can essentially pass for straight (even though i'm very involved in LGBTQ rights). also the LGBTQ community is largely distant from anything to do with polyamory, because most are monogamous and trying to distance themselves from the stereotype that queer = slut. therefore i haven't seen much support at all for bi poly people in the LGBTQ community. now the pagan community... i find the pagan community much more supportive of polyamory and bi/pansexuality.

[AnnabelMore]

Interesting, it's quite different in my city, the queers and the kinksters overlap heavily. Our premiere dungeon was run by a lesbian until just recently and in our local queer women's cabaret group we have many openly bi members and make frequent references in our skits to kink. I think it's because there's a sizeable radical streak in both groups around these parts -- we support each other because we're all ready to fight for more freedom for all of us.

Of course, I'm sure there are more "respectable" queers and more conventional kinksters (as weird as that sounds) here who would never see a need to interact with each other... I just don't know those people. :D

[km34]

My husband is now exploring his kinky side by trying to get involved in a local group or groups, and actually commented on the LACK of overlap. Apparently the people who say they are looking for poly are actually just looking for play partners, not love. So apparently in our area, at least with the groups/individuals Keith has found, not much of a link between those two.

[SchrodingersCat]

I think that most people have the potential to be both poly and bisexual/pansexual.

I think the reason we see overlap between the groups is that members of any group outside the societal norm have been forced to do a lot of thinking and introspection about what is acceptable and what they need to be happy.

Anyone who does that kind of thinking is bound to discover other things about themselves unrelated to the original topic.

That being said, at our local bi group last month, there was a man who completely freaked out at the concept of polyamory. I wasn't there, but his reaction was described as a "trigger" meaning there was something in his personal history that caused him to feel so strongly about the issue.

So my point is, there isn't a 1-to-1 correspondence between bi and poly, and being a member of the one doesn't necessarily make you tolerant of the other.

[Sonic]

Where I come from, the BDSM scene is very much hetero-oriented and mainstream.

However, I'm queer, my partner is queer and there is a big overlap in the political queer scene with the polyamorist scene.

Someone once told me that there are two kinds of polyamorists - the activists and the nerds. I agreed. :D

But for me, the bottom line in life, love and everything is being an anarchist. This has to do with all my lifestyle choices. Be it queer anarchism (resisting cis-centrism for example), building radical communities or seeing your relationships in a radical way (i.e. D/s or something along those lines).

[RfromRMC]

actually, i haven't seen much overlap at all between the kink and LGBTQ community....
Well, not much overlap...more like they have separate kink communities. The gay male leather/bdsm scene is alive and well (though very underground). It's just a very isolated, separate community that doesn't have much overlap with the straight kink community because it's so male-on-male oriented. And not much overlap with the mainstream gay community because, of well, the kink/taboo factor.

also the LGBTQ community is largely distant from anything to do with polyamory, because most are monogamous and trying to distance themselves from the stereotype that queer = slut. therefore i haven't seen much support at all for bi poly people in the LGBTQ community.
Yeah, I've lamented about this in multiple threads and forums. I tried hard to get some type of poly discussion event at our local LGBT center and I just get the run-around. (It's like they're afraid to out-right say No.)
Suffice to say my opinion is that the power-brokers of the LGBT rights movement seem so marriage-oriented these days that anything they see as counter to that, they freak out and try to avoid. The above-mentioned leather community has already been a victim to that stigma as it is...polys now, too.

[Sonic]

Suffice to say my opinion is that the power-brokers of the LGBT rights movement seem so marriage-oriented these days that anything they see as counter to that, they freak out and try to avoid. The above-mentioned leather community has already been a victim to that stigma as it is...polys now, too.

I agree when it comes to the mainstream LGBT movement.

But the radical queer movement/scene is totally different, also with regard to poly people. At least where I come from. However, it's not easy if you're straight and involved in the queer scene, a lot of prejudice there towards straight people :/

[Iktomi]

ha, being a female, i know nothing about the gay leather scene, but i'm sure it is out there. in fact, i think there are probably sub-scenes which overlap, but it's hard for a newbie to find those. a lot of my friends are pagan, and i am happy with the pagan scene overall, as it's pretty accepting of differences. as a bi/pan woman in a marriage with a bi male, i found i'm not very welcome in the GLBTQ community, although the theater community overlaps a lot and i am welcome there. :)

[RfromRMC]

as a bi/pan woman in a marriage with a bi male, i found i'm not very welcome in the GLBTQ community,

Infuriating to say the least. It's like they constantly forget what the "B" stands for. :p Crap like this is why I tend to hang out in poly circles more than gay ones. As someone who's both, I can count on the poly's to embrace my gay side more than I can the gays to embrace my poly side. Sad in a way. :rolleyes:

[RunicWolf]

Infuriating to say the least. It's like they constantly forget what the "B" stands for. :p Crap like this is why I tend to hang out in poly circles more than gay ones. As someone who's both, I can count on the poly's to embrace my gay side more than I can the gays to embrace my poly side. Sad in a way. :rolleyes:

You know, in my experience with the LGBT community, being bisexual is almost a sin it seems like. You're either homosexual or hetero, but never, ever bisexual. Everyone I know involved in the community in any real way will say that their sexuality is what it takes to be with the person they are dating, i.e. hetero if dating someone of the opposite gender, homo if same gender. It's like to them bisexual isn't a "real" option, that it's what wishy washy people who haven't figured it out use. I'm sorry, I'm more apt to take someone who says they are bisexual more seriously then someone who keeps flip flopping between homosexual and heterosexual at the drop of their loins.

On that note, I'll also say my observations about the mainstream LGBT community and poly line up with everyone else's, namely poly isn't an option and that it's a fight against the "homosexuals sleep around a lot" stigma. In some ways, that community, in my experience, are more uptight and xenophobic then "the straight world".

[BrigidsDaughter]

What I found funny/ sad is that people were much more accepting of me being bi-sexual when we were stationed in Kansas and I was attending school there. I studied Social Work both there and in NY and my experience in NY - in my own classes about diversity and minorities in NY I was told by my fellow students that there was no such thing as being bi - I was just "confused" and would eventually grow out of it. Runic Wolf and I had been married for 7 years, I told them; if I was going to outgrow it, don't you think I would have by now? Grr. So frustrating.

I recently discussed poly with a friend who identifies at queer rather than bi. Although she is attracted to females, she was virgin until she met her recent boyfriend. She and a couple of our mutual bi-sexual female friends were told by their boyfriends that it was okay with them if they wanted to explore their attraction to females. They all decided that even with permission, it was too close to cheating. After explaining that I am poly and have both a girlfriend and a boyfriend; my friend said that she couldn't do that. She couldn't handle the idea of letting her boyfriend date anyone else. He cheated emotionally on his wife before filing for divorce (and we suspect it was more than emotional) and dated at least one person while his divorce was in progress before meeting our friend. So she doesn't feel that she could trust him not to leave her.

This seems to be the theme with my other bi-sexual female friends as well. Their boyfriends are okay with them dating women; don't expect or want to be part of that relationship or even want it to date other people - they only want their girlfriends to not feel like they are suppressing a valid part of themselves; but the women are afraid that if they take the opportunity to explore their attraction to females that they will lose the relationship they already have. It baffles me.

[km34]

This seems to be the theme with my other bi-sexual female friends as well. Their boyfriends are okay with them dating women; don't expect or want to be part of that relationship or even want it to date other people - they only want their girlfriends to not feel like they are suppressing a valid part of themselves; but the women are afraid that if they take the opportunity to explore their attraction to females that they will lose the relationship they already have. It baffles me.

I think this is very common in most relationships where the woman is bi. My girlfriend and her husband started out swinging because of her bisexuality, but she never considered that an actual relationship (beyond friends with benefits or the sexual) was possible until I brought up poly a few months ago in a random discussion. She doesn't know this, but her husband has been telling me since about day 3 of our friendship that he's always wanted her to have an actual girlfriend (and not just a close friend that's a girl) since she never had the experience of dating a woman before she married. Men are apparently way more accepting of non-monogamy (without any deep soul searching) than women are in general.

[ThatGirlInGray]

Men are apparently way more accepting of non-monogamy (without any deep soul searching) than women are in general.

Oh, let's be careful here, shall we? Instead of men being way more accepting, how about "People tend to be more accepting of non-monogamy when they aren't threatened by the other partner(s)." km, your statement comes too close to the, "Men just want sex, women want emotion," stereotype for my comfort.

This has kind of come around to my original rant- just because I'm bi doesn't mean I need BOTH a man and a woman to be happy. I'm attracted to both/either but my life isn't magically "complete" because I have one of each. Yes, I'm bi and poly, but those are separate. I could be bi and mono and still be married to the person I am now, or I could be straight and poly and still in the relationship I'm now in. The men who encourage their female partners to explore their bisexuality, would they be as sanguine about their partner having a relationship with another man??

ETA: Way back in the early years I encouraged Monochrome to date other women for basically the same reason as km mentioned: he'd never dated anyone besides me, and I wanted to make sure he wouldn't end up wondering what he missed 20 years down the line. But part of maturing as a person and within our relationship was accepting that he wasn't interested in dating other women. He knows that door is still open if he ever wants to go through it, but I no longer need him to "prove" that he wants to be with me by choosing me only after finding out what(who) else is out there.

[BrigidsDaughter]

This has kind of come around to my original rant- just because I'm bi doesn't mean I need BOTH a man and a woman to be happy. I'm attracted to both/either but my life isn't magically "complete" because I have one of each. Yes, I'm bi and poly, but those are separate. I could be bi and mono and still be married to the person I am now, or I could be straight and poly and still in the relationship I'm now in. The men who encourage their female partners to explore their bisexuality, would they be as sanguine about their partner having a relationship with another man??



I get what you are saying about how being bi doesn't mean that you need BOTH a man and a woman to be happy. For some, I suppose it means exactly that.

Personally, I came out as bi-sexual in 2000. I was extremely grateful to Runic Wolf for accepting this so fully (as I came out around the time we got married) and allowing me to explore my attractions. I didn't have my first fully sexual experience with another woman until 2009 (mostly for lack of courage, not trying).

I started seeing Wendigo in 2009 and we started seeing his wife a few months later. All in all, I'd say I've had a handful of sexual encounters with her since the beginning (scheduling issues suck!). Most of the time I am content with what I get from Runic Wolf and Wendigo (who I see about once a week or every other week), but occasionally, I start going crazy in my head from missing her and wanting her.

I can't speak for my male friends about how they would feel if their girlfriends wanted a boyfriend, because that isn't the situation occurring. Several of their girlfriends have expressed a desire to date women (one was interested in me for a while) and the boyfriends gave the go ahead, were 100% supportive, and yet my female friends were too afraid to take the opportunity. That is what I don't understand, you want it; the girl wants it; your boyfriend is okay with it; but you won't take the chance that dating another woman might somehow cause your monogamous boyfriend to want to date other women too, and if you decide to take the chance, you're (in your head) cheating?

[km34]

I'm sorry if I didn't clarify or say what I meant to say, but I just meant that in my experience, men have been much quicker to accept non-monogamy (in this case polyamory or at least their wives/girlfriends dating others) than the actual women who would be doing the dating. I was in no way implying that men only want sex, just that (once again in my experience) that men are able to accept the idea of multiple relationships with fewer internal conflicts in the beginning than the women I've known. Most men I know don't like the idea of sex without any emotion at all, so I would NEVER knowingly imply that "Men just want sex, women want emotion."

[ThatGirlInGray]

in my experience, men have been much quicker to accept non-monogamy (in this case polyamory or at least their wives/girlfriends dating others) than the actual women who would be doing the dating

Ohhhh, ok, I get now. In those specific relationships, the men seem to be more comfortable with non-monogamy than the women. I'd still be curious if they'd be as ok with it if their girlfriends wanted to date other men, but like you said, that's not the situation. I just like digging at people's thought processes. :)

[AnnabelMore]

I'm sorry if I didn't clarify or say what I meant to say, but I just meant that in my experience, men have been much quicker to accept non-monogamy (in this case polyamory or at least their wives/girlfriends dating others) than the actual women who would be doing the dating. I was in no way implying that men only want sex, just that (once again in my experience) that men are able to accept the idea of multiple relationships with fewer internal conflicts in the beginning than the women I've known.

I'm going to echo TGIG in pondering -- is it that these men are quicker to accept their female partners dating "others" generally, or is it just that they're down with the idea of their wives dating women? It is much easier, for many people, to dredge up fears of being replaced when your partner's new partner is of your gender. So, the average guy might be far less ok with the idea of the woman he's with romantically seeing another man... at least that's what we've often seen here. This could be interpreted as the men being open to their female partners being with other women because they find it sexy -- thus, a sexual motive. But I think it goes beyond that and into issues of being afraid of being replaced by another man, as I mentioned above.

For all the women who are afraid of the men in their lives' seeing other women, I wonder how it would be if the men were interested in other men? I have a feeling that suddenly we'd be seeing a lot more accepting women (though maybe not? not really sure, as this seems to be a less common scenario).

What I'm trying to say is that while I didn't think that you were implying anything about women caring about emotion versus men caring about sex, I DO think it may be unfair to say that these men are more accepting of polyamory than the women in their lives based solely on them being ok with extramarital lesbian affairs when we can't directly compare and see how their wives would respond to the idea of them having extramarital gay affairs, since that doesn't seem to be coming up.

[BrigidsDaughter]

For us, while extra marital gay affairs didn't come up, I have to admit that I was pretty harsh on Runic Wolf and one of our gay friends in the early days of our marriage. While it was okay for me to be bi, I didn't extend him the same courtesy. I didn't even realize that Runic Wolf was having bi-curious thoughts or that he actually enjoyed our gay friend hitting on him. I shot down all porn suggestions that involved male on male interaction and not in a nice way either, I'm ashamed to say. Fast forward to now and I have a bi-sexual boyfriend who is definitely interested in Runic Wolf; find it hot when Runic Wolf does express his bi-curious nature, but those times are few and far between. And I have to wonder if I'd been as awesome as he was with me, if he'd be less afraid to go with those feelings.

[km34]

I agree that it is interesting to think about how the reactions would be if the tables were turned and more men were expressing bisexuality or interest in exploring same-sex relationships. It's been mentioned many times that in the LGBT community, bisexuals tend to be targeted as people who can't make up their mind or are labeled homo or hetero based on their current relationship status - if we as bisexual females are being less than welcoming of the bisexual expressions our male friends or loved ones are making, aren't we just as guilty for smearing the bi name?

As for whether or not the men are only accepting because their wives/girlfriends have only expressed interest in dating women, I couldn't say but I don't think it's fair to say that the sexual motive is what makes them accept it. To me, that is more akin to saying that men are only interested in sex or things that give them sexual gratification. I would hope that any man who is encouraging their SO to date is worried about the happiness of his partner and not what he is going to be able to get out of the deal.

[Iktomi]

i have to say, that i have actively encouraged my bisexual husband to pursue relationships and experimentation with other men, but he is more hesitant to do it. this could be due to a couple of things- he is more mono-minded than i am, he was sexually abused by a man in the military, he has some medical issues that he's focusing on, etc... but i have the feeling that he just doesn't have the urge to be with anyone other than me, although he's open to it. but, i haven't really actively encouraged him to pursue a relationship with another woman, although it probably wouldn't bother me too much (depends on the woman, just like it would depend on the man.)

now me, i do actively want a relationship with another woman, and am open to a relationship with another man (although it's not a need of mine). and my husband is a little more insecure- we've had a lot of talks about why this is a need of mine, what i'm not getting out of our current relationship (his thinking, not mine), etc... at first, he was adamantly against my being with another man, and only hesitantly ok with my being with another woman, but now it seems that gender doesn't matter as much as trust and mutual compatibility (even if it's as friends). it's not that i'm unsatisfied, it's that i just feel restricted, and that there could be so much more. it's not a matter of filling an empty hole, but of adding to what i already have. (anyway that's a little tangent)

so, in closing, :P gender used to matter to my husband more than it matters now, and it doesn't really matter to me.

[BrigidsDaughter]

In my defense I was 19 years old at the time and pregnant with our son; certainly not the most rational period of my life. I had an experience in high school where I walked in on an ex getting a blow job from my best friend's boyfriend and people joked that I'd made him gay. I certainly encouraged all my gay and bi male friends to be themselves in high school. But when it came to Runic Wolf, I was irrationally afraid that I'd lose him. I have been nothing but encouraging over the last few years, but I can't the reaction of my youth.

[AnnabelMore]

at first, he was adamantly against my being with another man, and only hesitantly ok with my being with another woman, but now it seems that gender doesn't matter as much as trust and mutual compatibility

YES.

This is the point that I would hope everyone could come to.

Monosexuality always kind confuses me -- what should the shape of one's genitalia matter? -- but if you're only attracted to one gender, fair enough, nothing wrong with that whatsoever. But to limit your partner's choice of OSO because it's somehow more or less "scary" if someone is one gender or another seems to me to be totally missing the point of love and intimacy. These are powerful forces, and as someone who considers gender to be neither a limiting nor a defining characteristic I find it downright insulting to think that a potential new partner might be considered more or less worrisome just because of gender.

I respect the right of any person to express feeling more or less comfortable with their partner seeing someone of x gender or y gender, after all we ALL have baggage to overcome. But I believe that it's something that should be worked on and resolved, just like any other irrational and problematic mental stumbling block. This is why OPP is so hard for me to come to terms with. Even when it works for the people involved, I feel like it comes from a fundamentally flawed way of thinking and so it bothers me.

[ThatGirlInGray]

TGIB is bi, and I don't mind at all. I don't really think about it, actually, except when it comes up that we have SUCH different tastes in men and women. I do think him being bi adds to him being more willing to experiment than Monochrome (not that MC is unwilling if I want to experiment, but he doesn't initiate), but otherwise, it's just part of who he is. Of course, I believe most people are bi to one degree or another, except for the extreme ends of the spectrum, so I'm rarely surprised if a guy tells me he's bi.
(On a slight tangent, I'm still continually surprised by how well MC deals with everything, not being bi OR poly himself)

I have a little bit of sympathy for the guys who are ok with bi girlfriends exploring with women. I'm not proud of it, but it's more likely for me to have some feelings to deal with if TGIB were to start dating a woman than if he started dating a guy. But I would never say, "Guys are ok but girls aren't," because that's not fair to him. It's my responsibility to get over my issue.

[ThatGirlInGray]

One thing that may help with where a OPP can come from, Annabel: while I was still able to get pregnant, I was not taking ANY risk of becoming pregnant by someone other than my husband. Since we all know there's only one way to have 0% chance, that was my choice. Also, we came to poly gradually. I was never looking for serious relationships, so at the time having a "semi-open" (what we called it) relationship worked for us. Now that we've ended up here (this wasn't in TGIB's or my plan!) Monochrome has been open to renegotiation, since it was never about sex anyway, but the relationship we had and our family.

[km34]

I respect the right of any person to express feeling more or less comfortable with their partner seeing someone of x gender or y gender, after all we ALL have baggage to overcome. But I believe that it's something that should be worked on and resolved, just like any other irrational and problematic mental stumbling block. This is why OPP is so hard for me to come to terms with. Even when it works for the people involved, I feel like it comes from a fundamentally flawed way of thinking and so it bothers me.

I totally agree with this. Iktomi got it first, but I don't know how to quote more than one post so... yeah. I think the encouragement that people get form the SOs to seek relationships with people of the same gender is often just a stepping stone anyway. While the people may not realize it at first, once they've opened themselves up it often seems to naturally progress.

[km34]

I have a little bit of sympathy for the guys who are ok with bi girlfriends exploring with women. I'm not proud of it, but it's more likely for me to have some feelings to deal with if TGIB were to start dating a woman than if he started dating a guy. But I would never say, "Guys are ok but girls aren't," because that's not fair to him. It's my responsibility to get over my issue.

I like that attitude. :) If only everyone were so willing to work on themselves and their issues instead of always trying to instigate limitations or trying to get others to conform to what they want.

[AnnabelMore]

Good point about the possibility of pregnancy, TGIG. One could always just have lots of other types of sex but not PIV if that was an insurmountable fear, but I can see why that might be frustrating.

[NovemberRain]

TGIB is bi, and I don't mind at all. I don't really think about it, actually, except when it comes up that we have SUCH different tastes in men and women.

This has reminded me. [the more I read here, the more things I remember that point me at poly way back in my history]
I dated a lovely bi man in college. Okay, he was pretty, not so much lovely. REally pretty. One morning, in his tiny dorm room, we were spooned up in his bed, facing his roommate. Roommate reached one bare, muscled arm down to squish an aluminum can that was on the floor. PrettyBoy and I both took a breath and shuddered. Such an odd experience to appreciate a sexy other WITH someone.

PrettyBoy actually was excessively helpful at finding me a woman to get experienced with. I didn't know he was bi and he didn't volunteer it, until all the boys at the potluck were drooling on him.

All that has been part of my coming out story forever; but I have never before looked at it in the context of poly.

[Monochrome]

When Gray and I were dating, early on when dalliances with others first started to be discussed, she asked if I would be more insecure with her being physically intimate with guy or a girl. She seemed rather surprised when I said, after a moment's thought, that I would feel better with her finding another guy. I reasoned that I can at least compete with another guy, having equivalent physical accoutrements, whereas a girl could offer Gray things I physically could not.

[iDKYbutIlikePETmonkeys]

ThatGirlInGray,

In my opinion, it could be that bi's are more open to poly. I think that individuals that have either considered or mindfully strive for poly lifestyle are most likely individuals that have, for whatever unique reasons, questioned the 'validity' of the hetero-monogamous-norm lifestyle. I presume (but really assume) that poly lifestyle peeps at one point had some existential or 'why' moment which they questioned if the idea of a man and woman marrying, maybe is not the most optimal or 'only' lifestyle approach to living.

[Clementine]

Love it! GREAT topic ! I finally admitted to myself that I am Bi when I was around 22. I met my (now) husband very shortly after that and he was the first person I came out to. (Awwww) . I am very much into the butterflies in my tummy and the near agony of not knowing how the other person feels about you, so once the newness wore off I started getting restless. We were playing WoW (mmorpg for those of you with your heads in the gaming sand) when I met a boy. He and his wife were in a polyamorous relationship, so after I fell head over heals for someone else, I broached the subject with my hubby. I didn't tell him that I had someone in mind, just that their relationship sounded awesome and lucky me, he agrees! Anyway, long drawn out story short, agreed. Mmos and polyamory seem to have a corrilation (sp?) . It happened to me!

[Magdlyn]

I dated a lovely bi man in college. Okay, he was pretty, not so much lovely. REally pretty. One morning, in his tiny dorm room, we were spooned up in his bed, facing his roommate. Roommate reached one bare, muscled arm down to squish an aluminum can that was on the floor. PrettyBoy and I both took a breath and shuddered. Such an odd experience to appreciate a sexy other WITH someone.


That's hot!

miss pixi and I always check out other hotties out on the street or on TV, together. It's really fun to point them out to each other. We have similar tastes.

[OpenandCountry]

Really love this thread! couple of things people have said that I can fully relate to...

1. We are the forgotten letter of the LGBTQ (bi's are just "confused" to some...grr)

2. As a bi, poly woman, many would assume that I'm poly simply so I can have a man and a woman in my life. (Untrue! I love multiple people, not multiple body parts)

3. Many people who are (rightfully so) Pushing for gay marriage rights view poly and bisexuality as a threat to their cause because it doesn't fit into the "we're just like hetero married couples, but with the same parts!" paradigm. (to clarify, I am VERY pro-gay marriage)

I thoroughly enjoyed reading everyone's thoughts/opinions!

[Carrie]

When Gray and I were dating, early on when dalliances with others first started to be discussed, she asked if I would be more insecure with her being physically intimate with guy or a girl. She seemed rather surprised when I said, after a moment's thought, that I would feel better with her finding another guy. I reasoned that I can at least compete with another guy, having equivalent physical accoutrements, whereas a girl could offer Gray things I physically could not.

Late to this thread, but I can relate to this, MC.

When I found out BF was bi, I felt like, "How can I compete with a guy?" As it is, BF is only orally bi. Which just goes to show that it is about the parts in that case (and just about sex,) which is why I also find it less threatening. And insists he's not interested in going further than oral because of childhood sexual abuse.

How this relates to poly for us, I'm not sure. I suppose I've been bi-curious, but more in a "how would it be to share a sexual encounter with BF and a woman kind of way." I do think that a lot of men don't see a woman dating their female partner as a threat - and may even hope it leads to a threesome for them.

I don't mean to push any buttons. I know that bisexuals and/or polys don't want to be thought of as sluts, as someone said upthread. As my BF said, just because he's bi doesn't mean he wants to blow every guy, anymore than he wants to sleep with every woman.

Sorry, if I've strayed off topic about the sex stuff - especially when poly isn't necessarily about sex(?).

[AnnabelMore]

To my understanding, some gay men don't like anal sex and so don't engage in it even though they're fully and exclusively into guys, physically and emotionally. So I wouldn't see a lack of interest in going "further" than oral as saying anything about the level of a man's interest in other men. Not trying to say anything about your husband at all, just wanted to point that out.

[riftara]

I can honestly say I didnt read everyones replys before posting this.

I identify as bi-sexual and for the first time Im in love with a woman, though Ive considered myself bi for many years.

We are also big nerds! Skyrim is our mutual obsession at the moment - I had to get it for the PC to get any play time in, F is on the Xbox from the time he gets home from work until bed most nights, unless we have people over, playing D&D or having a party.

F's girlfriend seems the odd-ball, not a gamer, or a nerd like the rest of us.

I dont know if I was bi or poly first, I loved two men from highschool, and Ive loved R for over a decade, so right now I love (in a sexual way) 4 people, in a relationship with 2 of them.
But then again I feel love for my close friends too. Its a totally different kind of love of course, but its there.

ETA - Im also pagan and so is John, F is nothing really, and T is not devout either.

[Carrie]

To my understanding, some gay men don't like anal sex and so don't engage in it even though they're fully and exclusively into guys, physically and emotionally. So I wouldn't see a lack of interest in going "further" than oral as saying anything about the level of a man's interest in other men. Not trying to say anything about your husband at all, just wanted to point that out.

I'm not saying he's bi because he only likes oral. I'm saying he doesn't like anal with men. He's fine to do it with me. From what he's told me, he's never been into men emotionally. He says it was more of being assimilated into that lifestyle due to his family and his culture. Sex was sex. Didn't matter who it was with. Sex was a way to feel loved.

[rory]

Really love this thread! couple of things people have said that I can fully relate to...

1. We are the forgotten letter of the LGBTQ (bi's are just "confused" to some...grr)

As an OT I would point out that I do think that T is an even more forgotten letter, in many occasions.

To the topic. One of the very few things I don't enjoy about having a husband and a girlfriend is that it reinforces people's beliefs about how bisexuals need to have one of each. Then again, you're always going to reinforce some idiotic stereotype or another, there's not much you can do about that.

For me though, I realised being bisexual only after I started a relationship with my now-husband. After that, my sexuality has has gradually changed so that I've gone from kinsey 3 towards kinsey 6. I didn't go into poly because I needed a woman, I started a relationship with a woman because I met somebody I liked. But I don't think I could have lived my whole life only having a relationship with a man... so you could say that poly saved our marriage. [But then again, not sure I fit bisexual, but don't really fit lesbian either with a husband... So, anybody can decide for themselves if they regard this to be in any way relevant to this thread.:p]

[cjmobxnc]

My husband plays strategy games (used to LARP in high school), but nobody else that I know who is poly is a gamer. Fiona is atheist - looking into Buddhism. I still identify as Christian although I don't really believe any religion is right for me. However, I did practice shaking off societal norms years ago when Keith and I decided to start swinging so I'm sure that that helped me embrace this part of myself more than I realize.

I used to play World of Warcraft and Guild Wars, but I'm concentrating on my school now so I don't really have much time to do the MMORPG's any more.

On the other hand, I just recently got a Kindle and have started playing Words with Friends.

[OpenandCountry]

As an OT I would point out that I do think that T is an even more forgotten letter, in many occasions.

]

Very true.

[Magdlyn]

As an OT I would point out that I do think that T is an even more forgotten letter, in many occasions.


So true. I can hardly watch Conan O Brien anymore because of all the jokes about Chaz Bono and other transfolk. :mad:

[nycindie]

Okay, I have a question which I don't think really needs a thread of its own, and I think this thread might be the best place to post it.

I've been corresponding with a guy who contacted me at a dating site for the last two weeks or so. He indicates himself as Bisexual in his profile, and he told me that he considers himself Bi because he doesn't mind "how close he gets to another man's cock" when he's in a threesome, but he's not attracted to other men. Mind you, he's talking about one threesome he had in college many years ago, and he's always approached all his other sexual experiences as straight. But he feels that because most straight guys are so "afraid of coming near another man's junk," the fact that he is not homophobic and wasn't weirded out by that means he's Bi.

I told him that I've known straight guys who would not be uncomfortable next to another man's equipment during a threesome and still consider themselves straight. I said that if I see "bisexual" in a guy's profile, I assume he is sexually attracted to other men as well as women and is open to or welcomes the opportunity to have sex with either -- not just that dicks don't bother him in group sex settings. Am I wrong?

From what I understand, maybe the word "queer" would suit this man better. The site we're on does have that as a choice. I'm not trying to tell him whatever label he is happy with is wrong or anything. I am just looking at the assumption I make when I see Bisexual in a guy's profile, and wondering if I'm off-base in my understanding of what that means, for when I do a search at these sites.

Any thoughts?

[RunicWolf]

Meh. I'd say he's Straight. Not being afraid of another man's junk is not some kind of sexuality. It's either because you are inured to seeing another man's penis or you just straight don't give a damn.

[KyleKat]

Okay, I have a question which I don't think really needs a thread of its own, and I think this thread might be the best place to post it.

I've been corresponding with a guy who contacted me at a dating site for the last two weeks or so. He indicates himself as Bisexual in his profile, and he told me that he considers himself Bi because he doesn't mind "how close he gets to another man's cock" when he's in a threesome, but he's not attracted to other men. Mind you, he's talking about one threesome he had in college many years ago, and he's always approached all his other sexual experiences as straight. But he feels that because most straight guys are so "afraid of coming near another man's junk," the fact that he is not homophobic and wasn't weirded out by that means he's Bi.

I told him that I've known straight guys who would not be uncomfortable next to another man's equipment during a threesome and still consider themselves straight. I said that if I see "bisexual" in a guy's profile, I assume he is sexually attracted to other men as well as women and is open to or welcomes the opportunity to have sex with either -- not just that dicks don't bother him in group sex settings. Am I wrong?

From what I understand, maybe the word "queer" would suit this man better. The site we're on does have that as a choice. I'm not trying to tell him whatever label he is happy with is wrong or anything. I am just looking at the assumption I make when I see Bisexual in a guy's profile, and wondering if I'm off-base in my understanding of what that means, because when I do a search at these sites, I generally search for straight guys.

Any thoughts?

I am a strictly straight male. I have had a MMF threesome where we were near each other but only touched the girl. I was not weirded out by his penis. There is a difference between homophobia and straight. If there is an option have him suggest he change his profile to "mostly straight" if he feels the need to identify. Unless he is willing to have some form of romantic encounter without a female present, he isn't bisexual and that is misleading.

[RfromRMC]

Weird, cuz if this guy labels himself as Bi on the dating site, what does he do when he get responses from men? (Obviously they're gonna be pretty disappointed!)

Anyways, there is that whole Kinsey scale and such. Maybe he's a 1 or something. I'd still say he's straight, but I guess if he wants to call himself bi, I guess that's his business. At the very least, you know he's a decently openminded person, so there's that.

We've all heard (ad nauseum) about the wild young girls who call themselves bi to make themselves sound sexy to straight guys. It would be hilarious if he was doing the same in reverse. :p

[AnnabelMore]

I've known straight guys who are very comfortable with their heterosexuality and wouldn't mind being in a threesome with another guy if they were both focusing on a girl. Harry is one! They identify as straight. My guess is that this guy is at least bi-curious but (rightly) supposes that this is info that would make you less into him rather than more. I could be wrong about him, but bi just doesn't mean "not afraid of penises".

[Tonberry]

I agree with the others that not being afraid of penises doesn't make someone bi, it's about attraction.

Maybe he was in the threesome and realised he was aroused by it, even though he's not attracted to males in general, and therefore figures he's not completely straight?
Otherwise, I would say he's just "straight, but not narrow" as they call it, or at most bicurious.

I too am curious what he tells the guys who contact him.

[nycindie]

Weird, cuz if this guy labels himself as Bi on the dating site, what does he do when he get responses from men? (Obviously they're gonna be pretty disappointed!)

I too am curious what he tells the guys who contact him.

Yeah, I hadn't thought of that. I will definitely ask him about it.

[feelyunicorn]

It`s the opposite for me. Since women tend to be more monogamous than men, after a lifetime of being unable to find like-minded women, I started considering men.

I`m still very new to bisexuality, but I made out with a dude at a party last weekend and it was like a ton of bricks lifted off my shoulders just not to have to deal with pursuing a woman. Or, worrying whether I was macho enough, rich enough, tall enough, smooth enough, marriage-material enough, etc. etc.

[BlackUnicorn]

... bi just doesn't mean "not afraid of penises".

I want that in a T-shirt!

Or, worrying whether I was macho enough, rich enough, tall enough, smooth enough, marriage-material enough, etc. etc.

I've never really given much thought to how much pressure men feel while dating women. I mean, I've always focused on comparing myself with other women, and have only recently realized men do those kind of calculations in their heads too :eek:.

[feelyunicorn]

I've never really given much thought to how much pressure men feel while dating women. I mean, I've always focused on comparing myself with other women, and have only recently realized men do those kind of calculations in their heads too :eek:.There`s a great interview by one of my idols, Camille Paglia (although, I was disappointed lately when I saw an interview in which she said she "worshiped nature"; she was so perfect! :() in which she said she empathizes with men, and how terribly she floundered with women.

If it weren`t for bi, tomboyish chicks, I would have already jumped off a cliff. Give me bi chicks! And give me men! :p

Sources: Bill Maher`s Camille Paglia special (circa 1994).

[adrift]

I'm bi and like some others have posted, it kind of led me to poly. It started with a threeway and me going, "How awesome is this??" Then the more I thought of it, the more I thought that it's nice to have both a man and a woman to satisfy both those sexual needs. But emotionally, it's the person that does it for me. I guess the emotional aspect of relationships doesn't have to be about what men give me emotionally versus what women give me emotionally. I feel that that is less biologically tied I guess.

[feelyunicorn]

I should also`ve mentioned that I do fit the bi stereotype of needing both sexes. I connect emotionally with men, and sexually with women. It does seem essential for me to be involved with both sexes, at the moment.