Wife thinks that I am neglecting her in favour of my secondary. She's right.

[KindaPOd]

Been married for twelve years now. We opened up our relationship eleven years ago. Been in a relationship for nineteen years.

Here's the thing, ever since she started seeing another man, somebody that she works with, I haven't felt the same.

I think that she was having an affair with him before bringing up the whole poly thing with me. She says that she didn't. Stopped caring, it's all water under the bridge now and I don't hold onto this sort of stuff.

Hard to say why I felt differently. Maybe there's a bit of jealousy, possessiveness, insecurity, or pure pettiness to it. Hell, maybe there's an evolutionary reason for it. Damned if I know. Whatever it is, everytime she goes on a date with him, I emotionally distance myself from her. Initially, it was a subconscious thing. Didn't even notice it.

When it started getting noticable, she stopped seeing the coworker. I stopped emotionally distancing myself from her but I didn't become any closer to her either. We spent about a year trying to close that distance. Better than it was, but it didn't compare to our mono relationship. There was no point in her not seeing the coworker, since the doors were already opened. Back she went.

About three years ago, I figured "well, fuck it", and got out of my pity party. I started dating an ex-gf of mine. We broke up years ago mostly because of my stupidity. The relationship was getting serious so I freaked and got the hell out of Dodge. One of my biggest regrets was breaking her heart.

My wife doesn't like all the attention that I'm giving my gf. My moniker refers to her. As the title says, she thinks that I am neglecting her in favour of my secondary. She's right.

What I find ridiculous, is that we had a number of huge talks about how things could go down when she rekindled her relationship with this other guy. I told her how I felt, where I stood, what I thought about our relationship, and where things were likely to go. She's still surprised by this outcome.

What I want to know is, with the information that I've given out, am I really the bad guy for neglecting my wife for my secondary?

[Sonic]

I think that first of all you should stop looking for the bad guy...

It sounds from the information that you've given that you haven't stopped caring about your wife's supposed affair in the past and therefore are acting in a passive aggressive manner towards her.

I can be totally off but this is what I get from this story you wrote.

If you want to make things ok with your wife, then you have to focus on that relationship. If not, then you will probably end up divorcing in the long run.

[SourGirl]

Yes.

Two wrongs don`t make it right,..you learn that in grade school.

Also,..your own words say that your wife made a choice to back off her secondary relationship when you had problems with it.

Your own words say your wife has problems with how you are handling your secondary relationship, but you don't offer her the same courtesy. Instead, you seem stuck with the chip on your shoulder.

Time to put on your big-boy pants, and stop punishing her.

[AnnabelMore]

What you don't tell us is what neglect means. Do you go on lots of dates with the gf and never the wife? If the gf and the wife both are having an emotional problem, do you ignore the wife and focus ob helping the gf? These are behaviors you can choose to change if you want a strong marriage. If you don't, maybe it's time to start letting go of your wife.

[km34]

The way it appears to me is that through the transition of opening your marriage up to poly, your wife may have become more of a secondary to you instead of a primary. Whether it be because you genuinely don't feel the same way about her as you did before or because you are holding yourself back to stop any negative feelings that her other relationship may cause you to feel.

I have to agree that you aren't showing her as much courtesy as she showed you. She backed off when you were uncomfortable, and while it's not clear to me whether or not you told her it was okay to go back, she at least waited until things settled. Did she think you were going to react better the second time around? To me, it sounds like you two need to get some counseling/therapy to see if a professional can help you with the distancing issue and see what the two of you can do to reconnect.

[dingedheart]

So after your first yr of marriage you decide to open up the relationship...and you think she had an affair and used the poly or opening as cover for this new relationship. You dislike the situation and every time she goes on dates you withdraw... after a period she puts calls a break form Bf and the 2 of you spend about a yr trying to recapture the old connection ....never quite getting things back ...so she decides to resumes her old relationship. All this time ( 8yrs) you've remained mono... correct. Then 3yrs ago you say fuck it ...its my time ...I'm going to find someone too. And then new troubles started.

The Affair/opening up conversation .... I think that wound if it is an actual wound or just an imaginary on has never healed properly. It might be water under the bridge but you just made mention of it 11yrs after the fact.

Did your wife notice this attention disparity in the beginning of your relationship or only recently? How long has she felt this way.

What you're saying is that upon restarting her relationship you told her that your connection to her would most surely diminish and now she is unhappy with that outcome and you don't really get it.

Do you feel inclined to negotiate at all on this topic? Will you negotiate on other topics?

You may need to inform her on what type of relationship you'd like to have with her now ....that primary thing is not all that it cracked up to be....some people need it other don't. I actually told my wife I didn't want to be the primary but thats another story.

Here's another thought who cares what any of us thinks...if you got scars and thus your feelings and connection have changed for your wife it seems natural that your time and attention would shift in the same direction. How bad do you want to be married?

[OpenandCountry]

When I started seeing my boyfriend too much (stupid NRE!) My husband asked me if I was trying to get "payback" for all the years that he spent time with his friends and stayed out all night while I was working/in school. I honestly don't think I'm doing that, but I did have to take an honest look at my actions to determine that. If you're doing this passive-aggressively, it isn't good for you or your relationship(s).

[KindaPOd]

Don't know if I'm being passive-aggressive. I mean, if I'm going to be aggressive than I prefer to skip the passive bit and get it out into the open. It's just simpler for everyone.

Hell, I'll try to keep an open mind. There's a good chance that I'm just acting like an infantile prick. Not something that I'm proud of but I'll own it if that's the case.

You're right. I haven't given her the same courtesy that she gave me and I don't plan on giving it. No excuses there. Not my most shining display of humanity. Guess I'm just tired of being the doormat.

What you don't tell us is what neglect means.

Emotional neglect. My gf is higher up on my mental priority list than to my wife. The stuff that you've suggested is close enough.

It might be water under the bridge but you just made mention of it 11yrs after the fact.

Got a point there. It's info that's relevant to our relationship history. ;)

I just don't see the point in obsessing over it. I'll never know either way. You get to a point where you just have to accept that what happened, happened. What may not have happened, may not have happened.

Did your wife notice this attention disparity in the beginning of your relationship or only recently? How long has she felt this way.

What you're saying is that upon restarting her relationship you told her that your connection to her would most surely diminish and now she is unhappy with that outcome and you don't really get it.

Do you feel inclined to negotiate at all on this topic? Will you negotiate on other topics?

You may need to inform her on what type of relationship you'd like to have with her now ....that primary thing is not all that it cracked up to be....some people need it other don't. I actually told my wife I didn't want to be the primary but thats another story.

Yeah, she noticed the disparity ever since the relationship began. If she hadn't noticed, I'd take it as a sign that she'd already checked out.

The way I see it, I want my gf to be my primary and wife to be my secondary. From what I've read, it's considered poor form amongst the poly community to pull the old switcheroo. Don't know what your situation is like but maybe you can relate.

I understand why my wife wouldn't be happy with that, but I did tell her that this could happen years in advance. Guess I'm just surprised that she is surprised.

[redpepper]

Ya, kindPOd, cut the wife loose. You're treating her badly and she could use someone better than you. She deserves that. Everyone deserves that. Let her go. You'd be doing her a favour. If you can't pull it together to treat her as an equal to your girlfriend I would guess you're done. Your attitude sucks on this. You're right, not your best moment. Make it your best and break up with her telling her that you don't love her any more. That to me would at least make you out to be some what decent in all this.

[SNeacail]

Don't know if I'm being passive-aggressive. I mean, if I'm going to be aggressive than I prefer to skip the passive bit and get it out into the open. It's just simpler for everyone.

This sounds so like my husband. Everyone around him would call him passive aggressive (not to his face, I'm the only one stupid enough to do that :eek:), but he would deny it to the hilt. His logical mind saw no point to it and therefore he didn't think he behaved this way, until the therapist pointed it out in specifics. It was a big stepping stone for him to realize this and we were able to make some progress in our relationship.

Hell, I'll try to keep an open mind. There's a good chance that I'm just acting like an infantile prick. Not something that I'm proud of but I'll own it if that's the case.

Sounds passive aggressive to me. :D

The way I see it, I want my gf to be my primary and wife to be my secondary. From what I've read, it's considered poor form amongst the poly community to pull the old switcheroo.

Likely, because the whole premiss to poly is adding more love to your life, not replacing one person with the other. It doesn't sound like you can do this, be it from being hurt so badly or it's just part of your nature. If I had to guess, based on much of what has been said, the hurt you feel from the past did a lot more damage and went deeper than either of you realized.

I understand why my wife wouldn't be happy with that, but I did tell her that this could happen years in advance. Guess I'm just surprised that she is surprised.

Because to her that concept doesn't even compute. I know a few people that tried for years to fix their marriage after some severe hurts took place and they just couldn't because at least one partner could not get that connection back. Sometimes, once that connections is lost, no matter how hard you work, it just can't be repaired. When you break a bone, once set and immobilized for a few months, it will eventually repair its self, but stretch certain muscles too far and the damage can be permanent (even though they are still attached). This permanent loss of connection is hard for many of us to understand, but it is just as real as being able fully love more than one person.

[KindaPOd]

Sounds passive aggressive to me.

In what way?

[monkeystyle]

You're definitely someone who is getting a little self-righteous satisfaction out of making your wife squirm right now. Obvious that you don't intend to treat her as an equal, and that you are quite happy to remind her of this. Like a couple of other posters have said: Dump her. She's better off without you. Seriously.

[AnnabelMore]

Your original question was if you are the bad guy. I think the answer is yes if you allow any loving relationship to devolve without either trying to save it or communicating clearly what is changing and why. Respecting the relationship and the other person enough to either work on it or change it, even if it's on its way out, is just the loving thing to do. And if you treat a loved one, or even a former loved one, in a non-loving way, then, yes... bad guy. :/

Now, maybe you *have* gently communicated to her that you want your relationship with her to take on a more secondary form, and discussed what that could look like and what would work for you both. If so, kudos. I couldn't quite tell from the above posts.

Having your feelings change doesn't make you good or bad, its all in how you handle it and the level of compassion you show.

[dingedheart]

It sounds to me that when your wife found this other guy you didn't like being some fraction in her life ...you struggled for 7-8 years either in silence or in plain verbal discussions with your wife. There was a snap point,... fuck it,...she's not going to change back I might as well join in. You felt replaced and from that mind set you went about to replace the person who replaced you. And you have to some degree.

The damage done 10yrs ago seems unrepairable ... do you want to be married? Why? Why does she want to remain married ...out of habit ..nice house ...what?

What's her response in taking a secondary role ? How does she define her relationships as far as primary and secondary? ...meaning is the bf a secondary ...or co -primary or is everyone equal?

I'd say you're deep down mono but have adapted to poly out of your circumstances... You maybe happier and healthier finding someone to enjoy that with.

Whats the bf think about all this?

[SourGirl]

There's a good chance that I'm just acting like an infantile prick. Not something that I'm proud of but I'll own it if that's the case.
Well yes you are. BUT, its refreshing to see someone just own their shit, and not hide behind some pretty words. Thank you.



I just don't see the point in obsessing over it. I'll never know either way. You get to a point where you just have to accept that what happened, happened. What may not have happened, may not have happened.

True, BUT,.the truth is you DID make up your mind. You have decided in your own mind that she did it. This is where the disrespect comes from and the passive-aggressive shit. Aggressive, would of been finding out the truth, and turning over every stone to have the facts.
Passive-aggressive in your situation, means holding court in your own brain, deciding she is guilty, and then letting future decisions be punishment.

So, you can choose to believe what you believe. Which means, your gf takes precedence, because you respect her, and don't feel lied to by her.

Making your wife a secondary though,...is akin to giving her leftovers off the table. Its not like you will suddenly respect her as a secondary.

Those who do the 'switcheroo' successfully, do so with a genuine interest in treating all parties well.

So is any of this 'fair' to you or her ? No. That is life. Sometimes we cannot find the truth, sometimes our brains and hearts make the decisions for us.

[KindaPOd]

Obvious that you don't intend to treat her as an equal

My equal as a human being and as an individual? Sure she is...maybe she is a better person than I am. I don't think that highly of myself so the bar isn't high.

Equal in the relationship dynamic? She's kinda my secondary, while I'm her primary. Lots of inequality there.

Now, maybe you *have* gently communicated to her that you want your relationship with her to take on a more secondary form, and discussed what that could look like and what would work for you both. If so, kudos. I couldn't quite tell from the above posts.

Yep, I have. For years.

Having your feelings change doesn't make you good or bad, its all in how you handle it and the level of compassion you show.

I agree with you.

do you want to be married? Why? Why does she want to remain married ...out of habit ..nice house ...what?

Staying for our fifteen yr old daughter.

We're living paycheck to paycheck. A divorce would empty our bank accounts pretty quickly.

What's her response in taking a secondary role ? How does she define her relationships as far as primary and secondary? ...meaning is the bf a secondary ...or co -primary or is everyone equal?

Her response is that she wants to be my primary. I'm her primary, her bf is her secondary.

I said that it would benefit her more if she dedicated more time to her bf and placed less of her attention on me. Old loyalties die hard.

Whats the bf think about all this?

Here's a transcript.

bf: Maybe you should spend some more time with Mrs. KindaPOd and work on your marriage. I'm getting kind of worried.
me: I spend as much time with her as I'm willing to. Also, try and relax.
bf: Oh.

So is any of this 'fair' to you or her ? No. That is life. Sometimes we cannot find the truth, sometimes our brains and hearts make the decisions for us.

You have a way with words and I agree with you.

[dingedheart]

I'd say the day you said '"fuck it " and set out to find someone else was the day she was being moved out of the primary position whether you found anyone or not. Now its being said more forcefully or its being said the same way but now being taken seriously.

It sounds like if don't have a full blown room mate type relationship now that that's where this is heading. I've read here about other couples having such an arrangement so that's not uncommon. I'm sure others can comment on how that works.

After a couple years in this dynamic, feeling the way you did, were you able to do, (for lack of a better phrase) "building life together stuff" ...house improvement projects, retirement planning, buying vacation property,(time share) insurance, estate planning, etc. etc?? It was impossible for me to get motivated on any projects even ones I had materials purchased and in hand.

Does your child know of these other outside relationships the two of you have ? Or rather to what extent is her knowledge ?

Why are you pissed off? at the long standing situation (her BF) or the suggestion that you need to invest more time and effort into your marriage to maintain the hierarchical relationship your wife thinks you should have with her?

[KindaPOd]

I'd say the day you said '"fuck it " and set out to find someone else was the day she was being moved out of the primary position whether you found anyone or not. Now its being said more forcefully or its being said the same way but now being taken seriously.

It sounds like if don't have a full blown room mate type relationship now that that's where this is heading. I've read here about other couples having such an arrangement so that's not uncommon. I'm sure others can comment on how that works.

After a couple years in this dynamic, feeling the way you did, were you able to do, (for lack of a better phrase) "building life together stuff" ...house improvement projects, retirement planning, buying vacation property,(time share) insurance, estate planning, etc. etc?? It was impossible for me to get motivated on any projects even ones I had materials purchased and in hand.

Does your child know of these other outside relationships the two of you have ? Or rather to what extent is her knowledge ?

Why are you pissed off? at the long standing situation (her BF) or the suggestion that you need to invest more time and effort into your marriage to maintain the hierarchical relationship your wife thinks you should have with her?

Probably right, dude.

I don't know, I guess that I don't really think that the "living like brother and sister while seeing other people" idea is polyamory. Sounds like a passionless-and-romanceless-relationship-so-you-get-it-elsewhere schtick. Just my opinion though. Maybe it's the supposedly long-dead mono side of me talking.

^^^ Yeah, that's probably the future. Honestly, I feel pretty bad that my wife wants to avert this future while I'm on the more apathetic side of things. She just won't give up.

My wife and I do stuff together. Our romantic relationship isn't completely dead but it's on its twilight years. Dunno what your story is DH, but are you planning on divorcing or what?

Our daughter has met our OSOs. I think that on some level, she knows that we are all more than just friends. Kids aren't stupid. If she asks, I'll be honest.

Me? I'm not pissed off. My wife is, but not me. I'm tired. World weary. Partly, I think that it's because I got transferred over to homicide a few years ago. It's a rough job. Definitely wore down my sanity.

[dingedheart]

Sorry I thought your user name was kinda Pissed off. And I get she's having trouble. And now i really get why you think she cheated on you in the beginning ....you've been trained to read people and put together evidence.

My wife moved out and is living hundreds of miles away. She did so for several reasons the biggest being mental health. Because of her mental status I have yet to discuss this topic. From the limited communications we've had she adamantly against divorce. I really can't see a different outcome.

[KindaPOd]

Ah sorry. Not hard to tell that you've had a hard time DH, but I regret asking. I apologise.

Sorry I thought your user name was kinda Pissed off.

That's cause it is. It refers to something my wife said about herself.

And now i really get why you think she cheated on you in the beginning ....you've been trained to read people and put together evidence.

Yeah sorta. I mean, there's a lot of misconceptions about law enforcement. Naturally, I blame TV.

There's quite a bit of evidence, leading me to believe that my wife was having an affair before proposing the idea of poly to me. It's not like I just pulled the theory out of my ass. Poly or no, not many people like being lied to. No need for me to go into it. The past belongs in the past. It's sorta like the existence of God, I can't prove it either way.

Btw there's no concrete evidence suggesting that police can read people any better than your average joe. Ya know, if I was interviewing you, and I thought that you were BSing me, I would take advantage of any misconceptions that you had. Take the psychological advantage when you have it.

[dingedheart]

Nothing at all to be sorry about ....apology completely unnecessary.

I got a few friends that are cops and they have enlighten me on the disparity between fictional world and actual criminal forensic. I was thinking in terms of an occupational exposure ...some training but more of a OJT type thing , people getting caught and trying to lie their way out all day everyday.

Car salespeople are really good at reading people I think...I'm not comparing the two just an observation on how people interact.

Does your Gf have a husband or additional partners?

How was the holidays for everyone?

Did your wife have a specific plan or solution in mind when she voiced her unhappiness in this shift or switcheroo?

[KindaPOd]

Car salespeople are really good at reading people I think...I'm not comparing the two just an observation on how people interact.

Does your Gf have a husband or additional partners?

How was the holidays for everyone?

Did your wife have a specific plan or solution in mind when she voiced her unhappiness in this shift or switcheroo?

I know that car salespeople are skilled at psychological manipulation. You could say that they are good at reading people. They throw out some bait and observe their customer's reaction. Sort of the same way that mediums work. Also, how officers work when they are interviewing perps. Get somebody with a psych major to watch "Cops".

Gf is only seeing me.

Holidays were great. My wife has a thing for public holidays (but who doesn't?) so she's in a better mood. Gf went to see her extended family. Daughter is worrying about her exam results.

My wife's plan was that we attempt reconciliation. In the same way that we attempted reconciliation when we first started polyamory.

[Carma]

Hi Kinda :)

I'm sad for you. I wonder if your wife is regretting some things now?? Our poly journey started with me falling in love with our neighbor and downplaying it -- i.e lying. I did confess everything, which led us to try poly. But I believe that, like you, my husband never got over the pain of me cheating. He got a girlfriend about 6 months after we opened the marriage and then HE started lying to ME. He feels justified in everything he does now. He downplays his relationship with her, although he is treating me as a total secondary (if that) and took his relationship with her farther than it was ever expected to go. He met her parents after only about a week, and he sent pictures of her and her kids to his mother! Well this is my story, but I can only speak from my own experience. I find it admirable that at least you are being upfront about your feelings now and admitting your girlfriend's emotional well being trumps your wife's. Wouldn't it really be better for your daughter if you both had authentic relationships and quit propping up the wounded thing that is your marriage?? It's no crime to move on.

I thoroughly understand the economics of your situation. Ours is dire too. But it's not worth the emotional expense of staying in a broken marriage. I'm looking for a way out, myself.

I commend you for coming here and owning up to your feelings and actions. That takes courage. You sound like a man of integrity. Show your daughter sometimes the respectable thing to do is admit when it's time to make a healthy change. You all deserve respect. I don't see much hope for that if you continue on living as you are.

[KindaPOd]

Hi Kinda :)

I'm sad for you. I wonder if your wife is regretting some things now?? Our poly journey started with me falling in love with our neighbor and downplaying it -- i.e lying. I did confess everything, which led us to try poly. But I believe that, like you, my husband never got over the pain of me cheating. He got a girlfriend about 6 months after we opened the marriage and then HE started lying to ME. He feels justified in everything he does now. He downplays his relationship with her, although he is treating me as a total secondary (if that) and took his relationship with her farther than it was ever expected to go. He met her parents after only about a week, and he sent pictures of her and her kids to his mother! Well this is my story, but I can only speak from my own experience. I find it admirable that at least you are being upfront about your feelings now and admitting your girlfriend's emotional well being trumps your wife's. Wouldn't it really be better for your daughter if you both had authentic relationships and quit propping up the wounded thing that is your marriage?? It's no crime to move on.

I thoroughly understand the economics of your situation. Ours is dire too. But it's not worth the emotional expense of staying in a broken marriage. I'm looking for a way out, myself.

I commend you for coming here and owning up to your feelings and actions. That takes courage. You sound like a man of integrity. Show your daughter sometimes the respectable thing to do is admit when it's time to make a healthy change. You all deserve respect. I don't see much hope for that if you continue on living as you are.

Nah, no need to be sad. Our marriage is what it is. I've accepted it. I'm making the best of my situation. Sorta wish my wife would do the same.

See, your husband's behaviour is why I'm trying to avoid being passive-aggressive. It's not constructive and it makes you look like a petulant kid. At least being openly aggressive allows you to set your boundaries and makes the issues crystal clear. 'Course, ideally you'd want to skip the aggressive part in the first place.

As for divorce, general consensus here is that you divorce when the marriage gets into the state that our one is in. My wife and I are being pragmatic here. We just don't have the money to support two homes. We barely have enough to feed three mouths. If we did divorce, our quality of life goes down the crapper.

Sure, if my wife had her old well-paying job back, we'd make it official. But she's working in retail now. Cops? Most cops don't exactly get paid a fortune. Even the dirty cops here are rarely brave/stupid enough to take cash bribes.

To me, you don't need to divorce to end the marriage.

Besides, we still have a little bit of juice left. Is there anything "special" that you and your husband used to do when you were in love, C? When things were at their best? My wife and I still go hiking together. Especially around where we first met. There's a couple of cabins over there with some very soft beds. Still some sentimentality left.

[SourGirl]

Quick question : Do you tend to be a 'Glass is half-full', or a 'Glass is half-empty' kind of person ?

Which is different then asking if someone is a pessimist or an optimist.

[KindaPOd]

Quick question : Do you tend to be a 'Glass is half-full', or a 'Glass is half-empty' kind of person ?

Which is different then asking if someone is a pessimist or an optimist.

Glass is half-empty.

Big surprise.

[opalescent]

How is the glass half full or half empty different from being an optimist or pessimist? I'm curious because to me that the glass perception thing is useful to indicate if one leans to pessimist or optimist.

[SourGirl]

Opal : In one instance, you ask for a person`s outlook. In the other, you ask for them to label themselves, and look inward.
They are one and the same to most people, to me there is a difference.

[dingedheart]

the real question is whats in the glass. And how many you've had before. A nice wine or cheap vodka ...how much ice is required. yep, guess what I'm about to do...drinkin and hockey games they just go together. Can't wait to see how this turns out.

[KindaPOd]

Opal : In one instance, you ask for a person`s outlook. In the other, you ask for them to label themselves, and look inward.
They are one and the same to most people, to me there is a difference.

Oooh. Clever.

[SourGirl]

Oooh. Clever.

Shhhh. 'nuff of that. I`m just a dumbass cowgirl. Next I`ll be dazzling you all, with my ability ta count ta 5 !

....but not right now. Gonna go drink-me sum moonshine with DH.Yup, yup. He has to drown his sorrows in a loss, and I have to celebrate mine.

<cue mild giggling>

[dingedheart]

SG....ixna on the oonshinema the guys a cop.

[SourGirl]

SG....ixna on the oonshinema the guys a cop.

*grumbles*
Next, you`ll tell me we can`t bet on the hockey game !

[SchrodingersCat]

Quick question : Do you tend to be a 'Glass is half-full', or a 'Glass is half-empty' kind of person ?

Which is different then asking if someone is a pessimist or an optimist.

LoL I'm a scientist. Assuming the glass is not in a vacuum, then it's completely full: Half full of liquid, half full of gas.

Is that like... uber-optimism?? Even the void has potential? Always a silver lining kind of thing? :p*shrug*

Sorry. I'm being difficult.

Also... I think of optimism/pessimism as being views of how the future will unfold. Optimists think that even when things are rough, they will always get better. Pessimists think that even when things are going well, they will always turn to crap.

Glass half-full/half-empty is more an outlook on the present. e.g. you get fired from your job. Glass half-full outlook is that you didn't really fit with that job anyway and now you can find something you really like. Glass half-empty is that you're a failure who isn't cut out for anything and now you're screwed because you have no job.

[nycindie]

LoL I'm a scientist. Assuming the glass is not in a vacuum, then it's completely full: Half full of liquid, half full of gas.This is awesome! I hope I remember it.

[KindaPOd]

SG....ixna on the oonshinema the guys a cop.

Nah, it's fine. I don't work for the Department of Internet Alchohol Control so she's good.

LoL I'm a scientist. Assuming the glass is not in a vacuum, then it's completely full: Half full of liquid, half full of gas.

Yeah, that's right.

Did you know that sea monkeys don't have a brain?

[nycindie]

Did you know that sea monkeys don't have a brain?

Aren't they really brine shrimp or some shit like that?

[KindaPOd]

Aren't they really brine shrimp or some shit like that?

According to their website, they are the labradoodle of brine shrimp.

Never studied 'em in depth, so I couldn't say anything else.

[MeeraReed]

I'm having a hard time feeling sympathetic to your situation, KindaPOd.

It sounds like you want to punish your wife for loving someone else for all these years, and reward your ex-girlfriend-now-primary-girlfriend for pining for you / loving only you for all these years.

That's an immature and self-centered approach.

Why don't you care about your wife's feeling? She loved both you and her boyfriend for many years, and tried to make it work with both of you. But you checked out as soon as you had your adoring ex-girlfriend back.

Maybe you should move out so your wife can divorce you?

[dingedheart]

It sounds to me like he's been up front with dislike of the situation and the damage it would do to him with in their dynamic. What some may see as punishment I see as the natural consqence of a loss connection ....more like indifference. Not trying to hurt her ...just doesn't really care if it happens as a consequence of this dynamic that she created.

Economic circumstances and a kid preclude divorce as a attractive option.

[KindaPOd]

I'm having a hard time feeling sympathetic to your situation, KindaPOd.

Makes sense. Not the most sympathetic situation to be in.

It sounds like you want to punish your wife for loving someone else for all these years, and reward your ex-girlfriend-now-primary-girlfriend for pining for you / loving only you for all these years.

Why don't you care about your wife's feeling? She loved both you and her boyfriend for many years, and tried to make it work with both of you. But you checked out as soon as you had your adoring ex-girlfriend back.

Probably a large element of truth in this interpretation.

I've never bought into the revenge angle. Can't remember if I made that clear earlier on in the thread. Not impossible that I'm just a vindictive asswipe. I just don't see it.

My gf moved on after our first breakup. If anything, there was a part of me that couldn't let go of her. I think it was guilt. You can do some stupid things when you're younger. And when you are older too. Guess that I wanted to make amends.

I care enough about my wife's feelings that I don't want to lead her on.

Not fully checked out of my marriage, but I actually don't know if I would've started a relationship with my gf, had our marriage not gotten into the shape that it's in.

Not trying to hurt her ...just doesn't really care if it happens as a consequence of this dynamic that she created.

That's not entirely true. Not hard to figure out that my wife is putting herself through the wringer for me. Don't really know how I can stop her at this point.

If you've ever been in a situation where your SO(s) were more into you than you were into them...it's not that great.

[dingedheart]

Not entirely true, which part. So you do care... sorta.... just don't know how to help her see your new (old ) position.

Has anything life changes occurred (outside of your actions) that may have brought about this concern for her. Like a death, family members divorce daughters getting older planning to leave the nest...stuff like that.

[KindaPOd]

Has anything life changes occurred (outside of your actions) that may have brought about this concern for her. Like a death, family members divorce daughters getting older planning to leave the nest...stuff like that.

Nothing special. She's my wife. She's a person.

Basic consideration for another human being's feelings, probably.

General trend is that I'm doing this out of revenge. That's what everybody here thinks. Going to look into it.

[Vixtoria]

If it helps, I don't think you are being vindictive. As the poly person who got into an emotional affair first, I get that it feels embarrassing and/or belittling to admit to lying or cheating. the wish to just clean slate it and move on from where you are. However, I also know DH could not move on until I admitted, and showed genuine remorse for the lying. Without the truth having been given for years, there's no solid foundation to build on. In one of our communication books we use it talks about how if you don't work on things, communicate you end up with the four Rs. Resistance, Resentment, Rejection, Repression. One thing the book was clear on was these were the steps to the death of a relationship.

Basically waiting for the truth, not sure if she has cheated or not and not getting the conversation to finally clear things and really be able to work through them and THEN try and move on. I think you've just gone through all four stages. First there's space, you start Resisting what the other person is saying and doing. You start pulling away. Then you start Resenting things. Blaming and disliking things they are doing. You haven't had what you feel is the truth so you start resenting the 'truth' she does give you. Not able to trust it. The little voice in your head almost rolling it's eyes at things. Then there's Rejection. You dont' really want time with her, dont' want to discuss it, don't want to be emotionally connected. It's too hard. Actually maybe that's the stage you are at. Though it feels like you are at Repression. Where you just get to a state of numbness emotionally.

We took trips into these four Rs ourselves during our marriage, but the book helped, even if it hurt as well to go over things you had emotionally numbed yourself to. You had to reopen wounds. Honestly if your wife really wants things to get back to you two being primaries for each other, she may want to look into opening those wounds and admitting things, talking them out and actually cares about the hurt you felt. Right now you might seem numb about it, but that's probably you just covering it up because feeling hurt all the time is too hard. So it's heal or repress it. You've been repressing, she wants better, she needs to help with the healing.

That's what I get when I read this thread anyway.

[KindaPOd]

If it helps, I don't think you are being vindictive.

Oh good. Thought it was just me. And DH too.

Resistance, Resentment, Rejection, Repression.

Pretty accurate way of putting it. Do you remember the name of the book?

Honestly if your wife really wants things to get back to you two being primaries for each other, she may want to look into opening those wounds and admitting things, talking them out and actually cares about the hurt you felt.

Doubt that is going to happen. It's been over a decade. Besides, even if she did admit it, the fact that it took over a decade to happen sorta minimises the sincerity of a confession. What the hell would I even say?

"Thanks for finally doing what you should have done immediately after you began your affair. Maybe we should have discussed non-monogamy before you did anything."

On the plus side, I'd finally know that I wasn't crazy.

I'm also running along with the assumption that she did have an affair. If she didn't and she is speaking the truth, just says that I don't trust her as much as she deserves to be trusted.

But like I said way back on page 1, I've put it behind me. Or maybe I've "repressed" it. I've seen what holding onto pain can do to a man. Not pretty.

[Vixtoria]

The book is "What you feel, You can Heal." I've been given a lot of book titles to deal with other issues, including hereditary, and they are dry and some hard to read and be helpful. This one is good. It makes simple points, then expounds on them. I'll admit to reading the beginning and feeling a tad pouty when I would see myself in scenarios that weren't handled the best. However, you get past that and then find ways to do things better. If only to stop and rethink your reaction.

[dingedheart]

When anyone talks about a "primary" being replaced or moved to a lower status that's blasphemous talk....which is a little funny because a good majority don't believe in such terms or hierarchy but indirectly function that way.

I'd think if it was revenge or pay back you'd be able to see that quite clearly...unless you've been doing it so long it just a habit or something.

During your counseling didn't they touch on the 4 R's . Wasn't the topic of her possible cheating thoroughly discussed?

what did you mean " basic concern for another human beings feelings" are you talking about you or her? I was talking about her "new" motivation to fix this.

[nycindie]

You keep saying in this thread that you're "over it" regarding your suspicions that your wife was having an affair before you two officially opened your marriage -- but if you really were over it, why would you have mentioned it so much? In giving us background, you would've simply said, "we opened up our marriage eleven years ago... blablabla," and not even mention your old doubts.

I had a very wise teacher a long time ago who used to say, "The degree to which you succeed and have satisfaction in life is directly proportionate to the amount of resentments you carry." I don't think you have let go of your resentment toward your wife about wanting a polyamorous relationship and you are still attached to the idea that she cheated. I get the sense that you are stubborn and proud, and that somewhere in you, there is a feeling that your idea of manhood, being a good husband and provider, and the very meaning of marriage to you, has been "under attack" or eroded by her wanting poly. You say that you have "neglected" your wife and wanted some sort of affirmation that doing so is justified. In all of your posts about your wife, there is a very clear expression of anger and bitterness toward her.

Your pain comes through loud and clear in all your anger and frustration. It seems to me that you are supremely disappointed in her and how your marriage turned out, and how you feel about yourself as a man because of it, and I wonder if you have looked at this in any kind of therapeutic setting -- because I think it will continue to eat at you and prevent you from feeling happy and satisfied until it is addressed.

Maybe you and your wife are finished and ready to move on. Maybe you can turn it around and embrace poly with forgiveness (for her and yourself) and generosity of spirit, and not hurt anymore. I think that, with lots of self-examination and a real willingness to feel vulnerable, you can do the inner work necessary to arrive at a place where you feel relief and being at peace with yourself, where you are no longer angry at her, and even a place where you can re-write your ideas of what marriage is "supposed to be" and be happy with that. Whether the two of you stay together or not. I wish you well in this effort, if you are brave enough to go there.

[dingedheart]

To be fair others keep bringing that up, myself included. And now by vix.

Cindie, what part did you read that gave you that insight on his feeling of providing and manhood related things...could you please quote those so I could learn.

[Vinccenzo]

What I keep getting out of the OP's posts is the sense of revenge as well. She hurt him by wanting another love in her life despite still wanting him. That request made her capable of anything in his mind including cheating before asking to become poly.

Instead of saying no or choosing to leave the marriage for the disparity of values he has stayed till he found someone to move on with. Ready with the unprovable suspicions of cheating to absolve motivations. This allows him to "do it back to her" before leaving. So not poly like her in any sense other than throwing the wife the occasional bone. His mind is still mono. The GF as the ready replacement when he goes. But he has to make sure the wife feels as he did, replaced, before he goes and has to make sure both his wife and her BF know he is replacing her.

Of course I'm guessing here, but I doubt this is what his wife was asking to happen in being poly. So that suggestion of this being the result of what his wife asked for doesn't seem to hold water. This isn't the natural result of anything. If this wasn't the result he wants to have happen and simply how it all played out, why the request that the wife become the secondary to the GF? Seems a bit more stringent that just wanting to do away with the labels.

[opalescent]

KoP (see what I did there?),

The 'did she, didn't she' of if your wife had an affair or not appears to be a weight on you. Secrets and uncertainty are often like invisible chains wrapped around us. I realize that it's been some time since the possible affair but our emotions, pain and anxiety, can go underground in the psyche if not dealt with and fester. Ask your wife to talk fully and truthfully with you about the past. Get a counselor to help if this is hard, as I expect it will be. Knowing what happened, if anything, and why, may make you 'lighter'. You may not be able to repair your relationship with your wife and you may not want to. And that's ok. But putting the past truly behind both of you may have the effect of easing dealing with each other.

[redpepper]

The book is "What you feel, You can Heal." I've been given a lot of book titles to deal with other issues, including hereditary, and they are dry and some hard to read and be helpful. This one is good. It makes simple points, then expounds on them. I'll admit to reading the beginning and feeling a tad pouty when I would see myself in scenarios that weren't handled the best. However, you get past that and then find ways to do things better. If only to stop and rethink your reaction.more books! Yay, please add it to the "book and link rec..." sticky? Thanks... it could be useful for those in similar situations.

[KindaPOd]

I'd think if it was revenge or pay back you'd be able to see that quite clearly...unless you've been doing it so long it just a habit or something.

During your counseling didn't they touch on the 4 R's . Wasn't the topic of her possible cheating thoroughly discussed?

what did you mean " basic concern for another human beings feelings" are you talking about you or her? I was talking about her "new" motivation to fix this.

I'm worried about that. Acting out in revenge but not seeing it. How many people damage the lives of everybody surrounding them without realising it? Plenty.

Counseling did discuss cheating. She said that she didn't do it. I was split 50/50 on the issue. Can't prove it, can't deny it. Only thing left to do was accept that you can't always know everything.

Four Rs were not brought up.

"Basic concern for another human being" refers to my actions towards her. If I'm going to act like a dick, I can at least be a considerate dick.

Why do I think that she is suddenly so motivated? I think that she doesn't like the shift in the status quo.

Ask your wife to talk fully and truthfully with you about the past

Already did. Years ago.

Fact is, if I continue to worry about this, I'd only be chasing after a shadow. Maybe I always was. You can't "win" them all.

[KindaPOd]

You keep saying in this thread that you're "over it" regarding your suspicions that your wife was having an affair before you two officially opened your marriage -- but if you really were over it, why would you have mentioned it so much? In giving us background, you would've simply said, "we opened up our marriage eleven years ago... blablabla," and not even mention your old doubts.

I think that I mentioned it once in the OP. It was relevant when we first started polyamory. I mean, it's a pretty ugly way to start things off.

The big theory here is that I'm doing this out of revenge because of her affair, so I'm going to keep on bringing it up. If I don't, everyone will say "Why are you avoiding this issue?"


I had a very wise teacher a long time ago who used to say, "The degree to which you succeed and have satisfaction in life is directly proportionate to the amount of resentments you carry."

Gotta say I'm genuinely impressed that you managed to get all of that out of around 20 posts.

What did your wise teacher teach?

Am I stubborn? Definitely. Proud? Dunno. Probably. Threatened manhood? Nah, I never bought into that macho manly man stuff. Leave it to the sea monkeys to fight over their females. ;)

Don't remember asking for affirmation. Just asked if I was a bad person or not. Not being a bad person doesn't necessarily make me a good person.

Believe it or not, I am just incredibly cynical. Hard to be a cynic these days without people calling you angry and bitter.

I was definitely disappointed in how my marriage turned out when I as younger. I can accept relationships ending but it's still hard to see a relationship go south like that. Around 6-7 years ago, I just accepted that the reality of my situation wasn't so hot.

I'd be disappointed in my wife if she was lying to me all this time. I'd be disappointed in myself if I was just chasing shadows. Scratch that, whether or not she was actually cheating on me at the time, I was chasing shadows.

I think that, with lots of self-examination and a real willingness to feel vulnerable, you can do the inner work necessary to arrive at a place where you feel relief and being at peace with yourself, where you are no longer angry at her, and even a place where you can re-write your ideas of what marriage is "supposed to be" and be happy with that.

Already did that years ago. That's when I reached the "weary" stage. But I guess I could reopen the flood gates.

[dingedheart]

vinncenzo, Unfortunately it is the unintended consequence of her having another partner. This happens all the time especially here. One partner wants/needs other partners and thus the marriage ends. A couple agree to swing and make the agreement of no emotional affairs ...oups someone falls in love...runs off with the new partner.

He was never on board....didn't like it for 6-7 yrs ...expressed it. Plainly stated that by doing so she risked his connection to her. She weighed the consequences and to be true to herself and her nature she continued. Hard to say what her response was in the first 7 yrs ....but now her image of the relationship she wanted is slipping away fast.

Kinda,

My impression is that under the new dynamic long heart to heart conversations really don't happen ...or rather you not interested in having them...water under the bridge type thing.

Have you flatly told your wife you have more attraction and love for your other partner and the reasons for that ?

Does she know about this web site ? Does she visit and read this thread?

Does she think you're a vindictive prick....( specifically about this topic:D)

[Vinccenzo]

vinncenzo, Unfortunately it is the unintended consequence of her having another partner. This happens all the time especially here. One partner wants/needs other partners and thus the marriage ends. A couple agree to swing and make the agreement of no emotional affairs ...oups someone falls in love...runs off with the new partner.

He was never on board....didn't like it for 6-7 yrs ...expressed it. Plainly stated that by doing so she risked his connection to her. She weighed the consequences and to be true to herself and her nature she continued. Hard to say what her response was in the first 7 yrs ....but now her image of the relationship she wanted is slipping away fast.

Kinda,

My impression is that under the new dynamic long heart to heart conversations really don't happen ...or rather you not interested in having them...water under the bridge type thing.

Have you flatly told your wife you have more attraction and love for your other partner and the reasons for that ?

Does she know about this web site ? Does she visit and read this thread?

Does she think you're a vindictive prick....( specifically about this topic:D)

I think its easier to see this outside of romantic association context. Its a trick I use on myself to check my own actions for subconscious motivations when I feel challenged in my own relationships. Much of what builds resentments in romantic associations is due to our socialized view of caring for someone we are intimate with and what they should or shouldn't do to show they care for us. We judge the people we claim we love most much more harshly than we tend to do with close friends. When we do to our friends what is more typical in romantic associations, it becomes more noticeable even to ourselves.

We've all experienced the drifting apart of close friendships when we were growing up. A natural occurrence; circumstances make what use to be a strong connection weaken and new ones get built. At what point is it natural when it is happening to announce to the friend who built a new association and their new friend that they should now be best friends instead of the original two? Especially when it is previously discussed that it is a possible outcome?
When you want to wound them. Otherwise it just happens quietly over time.

I watched my brother do this very thing when his best friend got chummy with another kid he took French lessons with. My brother spoke not a lick and began to suspect that when his BFF and the new friend would speak French in front of him that they were talking about him. Maybe they were and maybe they were not; it was never provable. That suspicion was what ended up killing the friendship before time could do it naturally. My brother began to act out to the BFF causing the BFF to ask why my brother was acting the way he was. Eventually my brother announced to them both that they should be best friends now because he was going to be best friends with someone he played hockey with. Very unnecessarily dramatic and they long since stopped any contact at all.
I too have old friends I grew apart from over time after a very close association. One of which did behave like it was intentional - their new friendship with someone else. KOP's words remind me very much of that dynamic. Others that I've drifted from or they from I, this dynamic is usually lacking and those friendships faded without resentments. No announcing to anyone who should or shouldn't be closest to who because it happened naturally.

Really, I'm not weighing in to make KOP feel bad about himself in this but to caution how far this can go into ugliness if he lets it. And I have no idea how all this is playing out in their home. None of us know if his wife is an emotional wreck trying to hold this together or if he is only answering her concerns as she pushes him to tell her whats what. Just that he mentions staying with his wife for the child he has with her. That can be noble IF it is indeed to ensure the well being of the child and not to make the child stand witness to payback tactics. As he said, the kid isn't stupid. So staying for the child can become pointless if it turns home life into a vindictive minefield. Staying with mum for the kid means staying with mum and not just residing in the same home. It means being there for mum when she needs him to be because its the example he should want for his daughter to accept as a standard for her own relationships and from her own partner(s) as an adult.

[KindaPOd]

My impression is that under the new dynamic long heart to heart conversations really don't happen ...or rather you not interested in having them...water under the bridge type thing.

Have you flatly told your wife you have more attraction and love for your other partner and the reasons for that ?

Does she know about this web site ? Does she visit and read this thread?

Does she think you're a vindictive prick....( specifically about this topic:D)

Remember how I said on page 1 or 2 that we had long discussions about where things were going? Those were the heart to heart conversations. I'm always up for a chat if my wife has something to say.

Yes.

Yes and yes.

No. Or if she does think that I am a vindictive prick, she wouldn't say anything. She's playing the role of super-wife at the moment. Calling me names isn't the smartest way to get what she wants.

Really, I'm not weighing in to make KOP feel bad about himself in this but to caution how far this can go into ugliness if he lets it. And I have no idea how all this is playing out in their home. None of us know if his wife is an emotional wreck trying to hold this together or if he is only answering her concerns as she pushes him to tell her whats what. Just that he mentions staying with his wife for the child he has with her. That can be noble IF it is indeed to ensure the well being of the child and not to make the child stand witness to payback tactics. As he said, the kid isn't stupid. So staying for the child can become pointless if it turns home life into a vindictive minefield. Staying with mum for the kid means staying with mum and not just residing in the same home. It means being there for mum when she needs him to be because its the example he should want for his daughter to accept as a standard for her own relationships and from her own partner(s) as an adult.

I agree. One lesson that I hope my daughter learns is "don't be as poor as mummy and daddy."

[dingedheart]

Sorry, I forgot that.


Does your wife have a username and any threads of her own either about her relationship with you or her bf in the archive ?

What does she think of this thread so far? Or rather ...what do you think of the thread so far Mrs Kpd?:)

[KindaPOd]

Sorry, I forgot that.


Does your wife have a username and any threads of her own either about her relationship with you or her bf in the archive ?

What does she think of this thread so far? Or rather ...what do you think of the thread so far Mrs Kpd?:)

She says that she has never created any accounts or threads here.

Guess we could share this account. We aren't breaking any rules by doing that right?

I'll quote her response to your second question.

"Interesting."

She had a big grin on her face when she said that.

[Magdlyn]

She says that she has never created any accounts or threads here.

Guess we could share this account. We aren't breaking any rules by doing that right?

Not breaking a rule, per se, but most of us find it confusing when a married couple shares an account, unless each partner begins each post by stating who they are.

[dingedheart]

Vin, interesting thought. Not really knowing in this case ... but to guess I'd say that discussion probably occurred after a long period of struggle which landed them in counseling which forced him to articulate it that way.

The fact that a marriage relationship that includes kids and assets is not as easy to walk away from (for most)...and thus these statements and preferences have to be vocalized. Which you are correct seem unnatural in the context of childhood friends.


Kinda, I see Mrs K likes to keep her cards close to the vest. Her user name could be inspired by you KindaVP :D .....clue we just talk about it.

[redpepper]

Please create your own accounts. It takes two seconds so there is really no reason why you shouldnt. Thank you :)

[nycindie]

Don't remember asking for affirmation. Just asked if I was a bad person or not. Not being a bad person doesn't necessarily make me a good person.

I think that, with lots of self-examination and a real willingness to feel vulnerable, you can do the inner work necessary to arrive at a place where you feel relief and being at peace with yourself, where you are no longer angry at her, and even a place where you can re-write your ideas of what marriage is "supposed to be" and be happy with that. Already did that years ago. That's when I reached the "weary" stage. But I guess I could reopen the flood gates.

Oka-a-a-a-aaay. :confused: Well, I must admit, I really don't know why you came here and started this thread. It doesn't seem like a very productive or satisfying thing to join an online community just to ask if "neglecting your wife" makes you a bad person. The only answers to a yes or no question are yes or no. Big deal, we're a bunch of strangers so why care if it's yes or no to us?

But when anyone here has suggested talking, looking inward, you say you've been there, done that. Ho hum. You say you're not angry, and the whole suspicion about whether your wife cheated is water under the bridge, although you keep mentioning it. People have said it sounds like you're being vengeful, passive-aggressive, and whatnot, and you say it's possible, but you don't seem like you're really getting anything out of this conversation.

If you want to see your gf as primary and your wife as secondary, what's stopping you? Other poly peeps have done that, and I don't really think it matters much what other people do or approve of anyway, if something feels right for your situation. It seems you already feel that way about them, so what is the problem? If it is your wife's objections, what do you need from us? We've suggested talking to her and you say that it's all been talked out already. You might invite her here to join this discussion, but what are you looking for in doing that? Also, have you thought about not abiding by any hierarchy and just relating to each of them as individuals without needing a specific poly role/title?

I am wondering: what is it you really need or want from coming here and posting about this? Opinions, suggestions? What's the point? I feel like everyone has been told pretty much that they're a bit off the mark, so maybe what you really want is just to vent or blog about it and not ask for anything from us. Do you think that would be a better option here for you?

[KindaPOd]

Vin, interesting thought. Not really knowing in this case ... but to guess I'd say that discussion probably occurred after a long period of struggle which landed them in counseling which forced him to articulate it that way.

That's right.

I am wondering: what is it you really need or want from coming here and posting about this?

I just posted this for the same reason that (I'm guessing) most people post stuff. Trying to get different perspectives.

Does it seem like I'm brushing everyone off? 'Cause most of the posts here are good brain food for me.

Wife will be on soon.

[MrsPOd]

Hello everyone.

[dingedheart]

hello, and welcome. Didn't like my idea huh.


First question ....what did hubs leave out, forget, or wont acknowledge?

[MrsPOd]

My hubby was thorough.

The only thing I can think of was that he moved out for 3 months when he thought that I was having an affair. He admits that this wasn't the best way to handle the problems in our marriage.

I did like your idea, my dear.

[dingedheart]

I glad you like it...but I think you were wise not to use it...always would lead to a long and complicated story. Plus it might set the wrong tone. But it did give me a great idea for a garage band name ....What do think SG.

how long did you date each other? how did you meet?

If I got the time line right in my head ...you got married and with in the first 6-8 months there's trouble ...we now learn he moved out...then you open up marriage.

Why did he move back in? ... or Why did you move back Kinda.

When and how did the child come along through this?

Do you feel poly (whatever that means) ...or could this be situation and event specific? Meaning if you had met the boyfriend earlier things would never turn out the way they did. Or if this ends in divorce will you try to find additional partner? Or things stay the same and once your child is gone you feel you need to add a third.

How much time, and attention do you spend with each? Whats that split look like. What did it look like at the beginning?

[KindaPOd]

Why did you move back Kinda.

Love. :)

[SourGirl]

I glad you like it...but I think you were wise not to use it...always would lead to a long and complicated story. Plus it might set the wrong tone. But it did give me a great idea for a garage band name ....What do think SG.

Due to lack of ha-ha on here, ( and the twitch Mags gets when we converse,) I can`t repeat the train of thought it lead me to. :p


So now the OP says ' Love' brought him back.

Ok, can we skip all the guessing, and just get to the point where he forgot about love bringing him back to her ? Its starting to sound like the live version of a Taylor Dane song.

OP, love brought you back, but what happened from there ? You lost it in a poker game ?

For the record, I don`t think you are brushing anyone off. Otherwise, I wouldn`t bother responding in this thread. However, it is VERY clear that 'something' is unresolved, for you to forgive your wife, move back in because of love, but slowly fizzle out the way you have.

Time to get dirty, and find 'it'.

As said before, we can all learn from mistakes, and be better people.

[KindaPOd]

OP, love brought you back, but what happened from there ? You lost it in a poker game ?

Too much faith in love. Didn't use enough logic.

As said before, we can all learn from mistakes, and be better people.

I took your message to heart.

[dingedheart]

What happened ....we seemed to have lost mrspod. Hope I did'nt put you off with those questions. Be like everyone else and ignore them.:D

I Still think vindictive prick is a good band name :)

[redpepper]

Hope I did'nt put you off with those questions. Be like everyone else and ignore them.:DI don't know that people ignore yoour questions dinged, I think you ask some good ones and people take them away and think about them. I enjoy that you wonder about people. I always see your questions as ones that people can use to answer for themselves in their own heads rather than answer here.

[KindaPOd]

What happened ....we seemed to have lost mrspod. Hope I did'nt put you off with those questions. Be like everyone else and ignore them.:D

I Still think vindictive prick is a good band name :)

She's sort of lazy. That and she has a very busy life. :p

I think she'll be back.

[MrsPOd]

Hello dinged!

- We dated for twelve years before we got married. We were good friends during our primary school years and beyond.

- He moved back in because he loved me.

- "When and how did the child come along through this?"

I don't understand the question. You're asking me how babies are made?

- Polyamory isn't that important to me and neither is having any more paramours. I believe that this was situation and event specific.

- I would say that we dedicate around an hour or two for quality time every day. Our split looks like a split.

[dingedheart]

Yes exactly how is the stork involved again :)

Sorry I didn't remember the child's age when I asked the question. I was thinking married ...trouble early ...hubs moved out for 3 months ... hubs moves back ... Family Planning after or during the early stages of the rebuild ..??? I get it now.

You said "we" dedicate an hr ...which we. You and BF or you and Hubs. In the other thread you said your Gf. Is she a third partner ...just not listed yet?

In terms of time split I was specifically thinking about how much time you spent with each partner in the beginning and if that's changed over the years. And how that split looks today. And with your husbands shift in feelings and attitude does that play apart in how you allot time.

[MrsPOd]

Heya dinged.

"We" refers to MrPOd and I.

"In terms of time split I was specifically thinking about how much time you spent with each partner in the beginning and if that's changed over the years. And how that split looks today. And with your husbands shift in feelings and attitude does that play apart in how you allot time. "

During the length of my marriage, I've been spending less time with my husband and more time with my bf and gf. This change wasn't something that I wanted and I do think that my husband doesn't feel as strongly for me as I do for him.

[dingedheart]

In the beginning did it start with you dating both. Or was one added years later... How did that effect the time and attention split ...who paid the cost?...equally shared?

Would you like more time and attention from your husband or a greater place in his heart? What are looking for from him?

Do you think he's being a vindictive prick ? Is he capable of such behavior?

In the beginning was it easy or difficult to negotiate the boundaries of this dynamic with him. Was there any trouble with violations of said boundaries?

[MrsPOd]

"In the beginning did it start with you dating both. Or was one added years later... How did that effect the time and attention split ...who paid the cost?...equally shared? "

I was initially only in a relationship with my husband. Then I started dating my bf later on. I had to work hard to create a schedule for both men. I feel that everybody in the relationship paid a cost.

"Would you like more time and attention from your husband or a greater place in his heart? "

Both.

"Do you think he's being a vindictive prick ? Is he capable of such behavior? "

I don't think that he is doing this out of vengeance. He's never done anything out of revenge in his life. I think that he is deeply hurt.

There is a possibility that my bf is abusive so I may not be the best judge of character.

"In the beginning was it easy or difficult to negotiate the boundaries of this dynamic with him. Was there any trouble with violations of said boundaries? "

We found is easy. The only trouble that we received was from his belief that I cheated on him.

[dingedheart]

I meant both ....Bf and his wife ...was the wife part of the package from the start or was there an additional readjustment after she was added?

What are you looking for from him?

[MrsPOd]

"I meant both ....Bf and his wife ...was the wife part of the package from the start or was there an additional readjustment after she was added?"

I only became close with his wife at the start of last year.

"What are you looking for from him?"

Um. A quality romantic relationship and friendship.

[dingedheart]

Because of when she was added time management issues weren't much of a factor for Kinda. My guess is he may not have noticed or if he did he didn't care.

Was the other couple always poly. Did/does the wife have other partners?

I'm assuming you would describe your other 2 relationships as being quality romantic and quality friendships and have also been described as secondary's. Why couldn't you achieve the same quality as you have with the other partners.
I guess the question would be how would you describe the nature or quality of the relationship of the the other 2 partners versus your husband. Is it casual dates and sex once a week or month...or do you spend time everyday, constant phone and text traffic and had a commitment ceremony. That arc is pretty big.

Maybe you are just grieving the loss now. You saw it 3yrs ago slip but had enough distractions not to have to process it. Perhaps being with this other couple who are on the verge of melt down has you looking at your own relationship with hubs differently. What happens if their marriage blows up? Where does it put you...do you have to choose...or continue see them separately?

Now we lost KINDA ..??? what the hell :confused:
I have to say you 2 are very polite to one another on here...not jumping to tell "the real story"...not the typical married couple struggling. Not sure if that's a good sign or a bad.

[MrsPOd]

"Was the other couple always poly. Did/does the wife have other partners? "

They've been poly for most of their relationship. His wife doesn't have any other partners.

"I guess the question would be how would you describe the nature or quality of the relationship of the the other 2 partners versus your husband. Is it casual dates and sex once a week or month...or do you spend time everyday, constant phone and text traffic and had a commitment ceremony. That arc is pretty big. "

I know that Kinda doesn't have his heart in our marriage anymore. I believe that my secondary relationships are stronger at the moment. I would prefer things to be the other way around.

I spend around 4-5 days a week with bf and gf. Each meetup lasts one or two hours. There's no constant communication going on.

"What happens if their marriage blows up? Where does it put you...do you have to choose...or continue see them separately?"

I'll most likely remain single.

"Now we lost KINDA ..??? what the hell "

All of the people here hurt his feelings, so he's not going to use this site anymore.

I'm kidding. He's busy with his job. "There's a notable increase in fatal domestic violence during and just after the holidays". That's his excuse. :D

"I have to say you 2 are very polite to one another on here"

We're polite to each other at home too.

[opalescent]

"Now we lost KINDA ..??? what the hell "

All of the people here hurt his feelings, so he's not going to use this site anymore.

I'm kidding. He's busy with his job. "There's a notable increase in fatal domestic violence during and just after the holidays". That's his excuse. :D.

Well played MrsPod!

[dingedheart]

Are you then assuming your marriage is over ? Being single?

Do you subscribe to the hierarchy of relationships ? Or have you tried to make all three of them more or less equals.

[SNeacail]

I know that Kinda doesn't have his heart in our marriage anymore. I believe that my secondary relationships are stronger at the moment. I would prefer things to be the other way around.

I spend around 4-5 days a week with bf and gf. Each meetup lasts one or two hours. There's no constant communication going on.


I loose interest in my marriage too when my husband is away 4-5 days a week. When it's work related, I have to force myself to work on it even harder, but when it's for personal reasons, I sorta don't see the point. What is Kinda's love language (quality time maybe)? If you want your marriage to change, you may need to find out what those are. It can make a huge difference.

[MrsPOd]

"Are you then assuming your marriage is over ? Being single? "

I'm doing everything I can to strengthen our marriage, but if my husband divorces me than I'm okay with being single.

"Do you subscribe to the hierarchy of relationships ? Or have you tried to make all three of them more or less equals. "

I try to treat them equally.

I feel that you made a good point earlier on. There can be a strong element of favouritism even amongst polyamorous relationships where everybody is supposed to be equal. I am most likely more loyal to my husband.

"I loose interest in my marriage too when my husband is away 4-5 days a week."

Kinda is at home everyday.

[BrigidsDaughter]

"I loose interest in my marriage too when my husband is away 4-5 days a week."

Kinda is at home everyday.

I think her point was that if you are spending 4-5 days a week with your other lovers and Kinda is home everyday, it might make sense that he is feeling less committed to your marriage.

I see my boyfriend once a week unless we are all working on a particular project in the workshop. Most of the time it isn't feasible to see him or our girlfriend more often. But they insist that they don't want to take away from our quality time. Even when we were planning our most recent table top game, Wendigo's first question was "when is date night again?" referring to my and Runic Wolf's date night. Are your OSO's committed to promoting the health of your marriage?

[MrsPOd]

"I think her point was that if you are spending 4-5 days a week with your other lovers and Kinda is home everyday, it might make sense that he is feeling less committed to your marriage. "

Oh. That makes much more sense.

I used to spend more time with my husband and less time with my OSOs. It used to be around 2 times a week when we first started dating. It slowly increased when Kinda got his girlfriend.

"Are your OSO's committed to promoting the health of your marriage? "

Initially, yes. In the present day, no.

They've become more distant.

[SNeacail]

I think her point was that if you are spending 4-5 days a week with your other lovers and Kinda is home everyday, it might make sense that he is feeling less committed to your marriage.

Yes, this!

He's home every night, but is he getting "date nights" 4-5 nights a week with you also?

[MrsPOd]

"He's home every night, but is he getting "date nights" 4-5 nights a week with you also? "

I've offered more date nights and he rejects me.

[BrigidsDaughter]

I'm wondering, if while in NRE, he felt like you only spent time with him out of obligation. Runic Wolf would say that to me occasionally in the early days of our quad, when I didn't have a handle on the NRE (after being poly for years, this was the first relationship I'd been in where there was a fiery burning passion for someone other than him and I hadn't heard of the dangers of NRE at that point.) You say that the nights increased from 2 to 4-5, was that while you were still in NRE or after Mr. got his girlfriend? I can see it being a combination of both, especially if you were in anyway wrapped up in NRE.

From his posts it seems like he took your entire relationship with your OSO(s) to mean that you wanted less of a connection/ commitment to him. So he gave you what he thought you wanted, got a girlfriend AND then you snapped out of NRE. Perhaps because you started getting to know your girlfriend better and became concerned about her relationship with your boyfriend? So now you are reminded that you need/ want to focus on your marriage, but he feels (IMHO) that it's too little too late or even insincere?

[MrsPOd]

"You say that the nights increased from 2 to 4-5, was that while you were still in NRE or after Mr. got his girlfriend?"

After my husband got his girlfriend.

I had NRE troubles during the first year of my relationship with my bf. This is one of the reasons why I temporarily broke things off.

[SchrodingersCat]

Counseling did discuss cheating. She said that she didn't do it. I was split 50/50 on the issue. Can't prove it, can't deny it. Only thing left to do was accept that you can't always know everything.

This line of reasoning is fundamentally flawed.

Trust is the cornerstone of a good marriage, or any relationship really. If you're looking for proof, that means you don't trust her.

I found condoms in my husband's glove box. We don't use condoms. I asked him what they were for. He said sometimes he gets bored in the car (he works out of town, drives long hours) and uses them to masturbate. I believe him.

Now that right there is what a judge and jury would call evidence. But if I can't trust my husband not to lie to me about having sex with another woman, then we really don't have any foundation to work from for anything else in our marriage.

I have never caught him in any lie, ever. So I have this question for you: Do you know your wife to be a regular liar? Or is this the only thing that you don't trust her on?

If she doesn't typically lie to you, it might be worthwhile to introspect on why you doubt her now. It could be a manifestation of some other insecurity you have either in the relationship or in yourself. Getting to the root of that might do wonders for your marriage in general.

[dingedheart]

I was asking if their marriage ( bf,gf) blew up/ went south what would happen? Not yours....

I'm little confused ....you treat all your partners equal and yet you want primary status from your husband. Explain how that's fair or reasonable.

[MrsPOd]

"I was asking if their marriage ( bf,gf) blew up/ went south what would happen? Not yours...."

Your wording was ambiguous, dinged!

I would stay with my husband and see if I could work things out if possible. If my husband wants to leave me, than once we are more financially secure, he will.

"I'm little confused ....you treat all your partners equal and yet you want primary status from your husband. Explain how that's fair or reasonable."

I try to treat them equally. I fail at that. I'm still biased towards my husband.

I don't know if I want primary status. I just don't like secondary status.

[Magdlyn]

Secondary doesn't mean less love, necessarily. Secondary usually means the lover that you don't live with, don't share living expenses and childcare. People that have 2 primaries generally live with both, or neither.

I'm sorry your lover and your h's gf have sucked up so much of your attention for each other as primaries... NRE can be hard to handle.

Regaining intimacy with each other will take work. It sounds like coming to this board for advice was a last chance KindaPOed took to save you marriage. All is not lost.

[MrsPOd]

"Secondary doesn't mean less love, necessarily."

It does in our case.

Thank you for your thoughts. I still have hope.

[Anneintherain]

"I think her point was that if you are spending 4-5 days a week with your other lovers and Kinda is home everyday, it might make sense that he is feeling less committed to your marriage. "

Oh. That makes much more sense.

I used to spend more time with my husband and less time with my OSOs. It used to be around 2 times a week when we first started dating. It slowly increased when Kinda got his girlfriend.


My husband and I schedule to be at home together at least 2x a week, and try to arrange our dates on somewhat overlapping nights so we aren't always missing each other and failing to have time to connect. It does sound like MrPOd might not be willing to do this now, but it can't hurt to keep that in mind.

Have you considered just...cutting back on the date nights with your other partners and just spending more time at home, even if it's by yourself? If you aren't even around to so he can connect with you if he has the desire to, I don't see that he's getting the chance.

I know it won't feel good sometimes, and it could get you nowhere, but if you do want to try to build a stronger bond with him, you probably have to really show him that you want it AND be available for it to happen. Nurturing the relationship you have with yourself is always a good idea too. Taking time alone for hobbies, introspection, reading, whatever, is something people can forget to put effort into when they get busy with other relationships.

I really have no idea if you cheated on him or not, and I really think he would benefit from putting his feeling about it behind him either way, and trying to start from a clean slate, but since he seems reluctant to do so, I guess you know what you have to work with.

I'm going to recommend a book for you if you haven't read it (just added it to the book and website sticky thread too)
"How to Improve Your Marriage Without Talking About It: Finding Love Beyond Words" by Patricia Love and Steven Stosny.
There are a few things in it that after having read what I have that you and MrPOd have posted, I think would be helpful for your situation, it talks a lot about how men (and women) act when they are hurt, and how women (and men) respond back in a way that turns it into a very unhelpful cycle. Bleh, I'm not describing it well but I'd suggest reading the reviews on amazon and seeing if it sounds like something that would help.

[dingedheart]

Have you both read sarahfina's thread? Any simliarities to your situation...or points to help start a conversation.

Has anything written here helped the 2 of you in broaching or promoting difficult conversations?

How early or late in your relationship with your bf did you realize that the hierarchy of primary or secondary didn't work ...both were equals? Was that ever talked about?

I thought he ( kinda) wanted to re shape the dynamic and the demands of time, energy, focus to reflect a more casual or secondary relationship....perhaps similar to how yours started out in the beginning dating your bf...minus the nre. once a week or once a month dates or something...reconnect time.

What types of things have the 2 of you done in the past to improve your marriage?.....the book suggestion by Anne triggered this thought/edit