So far, so good!

[fuchka]

This forum excites me :) I want to blog but not sure where to start, despite Maria von Trapp's simple advice. Guess there's nothing like jumping in the deep end, eh?

I have been blessed with an abundance of amazing people and relationships in my life. Community, communing, communication etc are where I find joy. That said, I also appreciate solitude and spirituality.

My only 'primary' relationship is my relationship with God. That is how I would put it to myself, but in a non-theistic way this could be rephrased as a fundamental commitment to (try to!) be a good person, and follow my deepest instincts on what this means. "True to myself" insofar as this refers to being honest with myself. I am agnostic as to whether there is an objective "true me" :p

I find that definitions often don't sit too well with me (and I know I'm not alone in this). I mean, take "relationships" even. Relationships are everywhere. One version of utopia for me is "a world without strangers". Terms like "partner" and "significant others" are, to me, getting at relationships where there is mutually expressed desire + a feeling of commitment (?) Many day-to-day definitions confuse me when I stop to think about them. However, for the sake of brevity I will use community accepted shorthand words, whilst retaining the freedom to get Humpty on y'all if it doesn't mean what you think it means.

So, preliminaries done with... here's where I am poly-wise at the moment.

I don't identify myself as poly to other people; I usually say that I'm non-monogamous. However I am poly, when you put it like you do in this community :p I grew in awareness of my own natural tendency towards being polyamorous over many years. The final "ping!" was an incident about 7 years ago now that made me realise this was something to discuss upfront with future partners. It happened in a prior relationship with someone who told me (while we were together) that she had a crush on someone else. My reaction was "aw, you should hook up with them! You two would made a cute couple". And her response to this was: "what? Don't you want to be with me? Clearly not cos you're not jealous of the thought of me getting with someone else". Pretty much equating jealousy with caring & commitment. Her perspective was that I didn't really want to be with her, and she was seriously hurt at my response. My perspective was - huh? Why are you hurt? You're hurt because I wasn't jealous? Me confused!

In retrospect I see we were coming from different paradigms in terms of sharing and jealousy :)

Since that experience, I have stated upfront with partners that I don't need or desire monogamy, and thus far I haven't faced the situation where the other person has said they wanted monogamy from the relationship. Not sure what I'd do if they said they wanted us to be exclusive (assuming I wanted to make things work with them). At the moment, this is a non-issue for me because I am now in a civil union with someone (S) who I want to spend the rest of my life with... so unless things change on that front, any future partner needs to be cool with this (obviously).

I've been with S for 5 1/2 years and we've been 'civil union'ed for coming on 2 years now. I am also with another guy (C) and we've been together for about 2 1/2 years. S & C are friends (actually went to school together, I found out after the fact!) but aren't lovers, so in the lingo we're a V and I'm the pivot (but I don't talk in those terms). At present they aren't with anyone else long term. At the start, we fooled around a bit as a sexual threesome but it's established itself more as a platonic dynamic between the three of us.

Some challenges for the three of us at present:

- S is currently depressed and has been for some time. He's been seriously depressed in the past (before we met) but his recent 'patch' started roughly around the time I hooked up with C. This has been quite hard for me in terms of guilt. I wonder if this situation with C "caused" his depression. Although S & I have been open to other relationships from the time we got together, this was the first real poly experience for both of us and we've been learning the practical stuff as we go. As you do.

There are other possible triggers for S becoming depressed this time round, but the timing is so close that it's really hard to know for sure. We have talked about this many times (especially early on) and from his perspective he can't tell for certain, but what he doesn't know is he is happy for things to continue and for us to continue communicating. I have found this quite a difficult thought at moments, less frequently as time has gone on... It has been challenging knowing that some friends think that we've been reckless, and in some way agreeing with them. We are open to taking this risk, if it is a risk. (I'd also consider not being open to be a risk though). I know some of his close friends believe that he's subconsciously feeling cuckolded (despite him thinking to himself that he doesn't feel this way) therefore is obviously depressed, and continues to be depressed because we haven't stopped things with C. He think it's their problem if they think that, but I feel bad sometimes for contributing to strained friendships.

Another complicating factor is that over the last couple of years S has lost interest in the kind of sex we used to have (partly cos of some meds he tried which had the side effect of anorgasmia). We used to share similar intense sex drives and have sometimes rough s/m style sex but his interest in this has waned to the point where we more-or-less have an asexual relationship. It's not unhappy, I get that he just isn't in the mood like he used to be. I really miss being as sexual like we used to (and he does too) but we'd rather not have sex unless we're both really into it so in that respect we still have a healthy sex life! I'm learning to slow down and be guided more by S's personal pace & tastes, and maybe in the past I've dominated a bit because he was more open to trying out what I liked. S is an extremely sensual person with an epic attention span. I'm a real flitting butterfly and can therefore be inclined towards less subtle sensations (ahem). C and I love playing with twisted pain/pleasure d/s dynamics etc and S has been much less inclined towards that since C and I got together. We don't really know why, though we've talked many times about it. really miss that aspect of sex with S and I hope one day it'll feel good again to play that way.

- S moved to Australia for work (I currently live in NZ) on an 18-month contract in the middle of this year. Six months into it now and it hasn't really been too much fun, esp given ongoing dodgy mental health as above. So I've decided to move there for next year... This will be an adventure for me personally as it's meant quitting my stable 'dream job', which has financed my extracurricular creative pursuits til now. I am looking forward to the move in general, but am not enjoying the thought of long-distance with C. However C and I communicate online far better than S and I do (C doesn't live with me so we often chat online as opposed to S who I've lived with for 4 years or so, until he moved to 'across the ditch')

I think that's enough for the first installment. Hugs if you made it to the end :) And happy to answer any questions.

[Mya]

Hi and welcome! :)

Your LDR situation sounds a bit similar to ours. I too have at times lived closer to one of my partners and other times closer to the other one. I think it's important that you realise that you and C communicate better online, so for you two the long distance thing might not be as big an issue that it is for you and S. It's good to recognize the differences in the relationships and work on them on their own terms. :)

[fuchka]

Ah, so I've been tripping down memory lane, thinking about the journey so far into Practical Polyamory (it's not that long a lane for me, but there's some dense bush so it takes some time)

The theoretical journey started with my own awareness of being "that way inclined", to me actively seeking out the friendships of local polyfolks (local to my city and country) and reading various forums online. I have not yet read the recommended literature (Ethical Slut etc) but wouldn't turn down the opportunity, though I'm not seeking those books out right now. Have a long 'to read' list and I'm a slow reader overall. I read words fairly quickly but I tend to think a lot when I read, and I also re-read, and get distracted... I have partly-nibbled books lying here and there round the house like misplaced sandwiches.

As a side note, I have a big reading challenge at the moment (The Battlefield Where The Moon Says I Love You (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Battlefield_Where_The_Moon_Says_I_Love_You)) which I'm borrowing off C. It's going to take me a while to finish, whereas he got through it in a couple of days (!).

Anyway, one pebble from the past I found was a message Sage sent to C a few days after C and I got together, mid-June 2009.

The story of our hook-up is kind of funny, really.

Sage and I had talked about poly things since, well, our first proper conversation with each other. (Incidentally, this was the conversation that made us both fall for each other; it happened on a Friday afternoon, and I couldn't concentrate all weekend until I saw him again on Monday and now we're hitched! YEAH)

We were both open to poly in theory but we knew we could never predict what it would be like in practice. Beyond theoretical discussions, we hadn't planned anything in particular. If either of us was interested in anyone else, we'd bring it up. There weren't particular rules like "you need to tell me this" or "I don't want you to tell me this". Safer sex was obvious and really should go without saying (?) though I suppose it's safer to confirm this ;) We agreed it would be fundamentally important to communicate well, esp any fears or discomforts, and take it as it comes.

And it came... so to speak (ahem). I had known of C for many many years, since childhood actually, but hadn't been 'properly introduced' until perhaps five years ago. It was great to get to know him. I'd read his blog and always thought he seemed smart and intriguing, but probably someone who wouldn't be interested in talking with me. 'Twas a pleasant surprise when we finally met for real, at a BBQ party at my place where a mutual friend brought him along, and the conversation just riffed. (I recently came across the term "sapiosexual" and really identify with this label!)

Before long, I was seriously crushing. I told Sage, and he thought it was hilarious. Sage and C had known each other at school, but weren't very close friends so there was no real delicacy required there fortunately! My fine motor skills in social situations leave something to be desired, though I do have the best of intentions. ("She meant well" is a potential epitaph.)

C at that time had his own stuff going on emotionally. I'm hoping I can lure him into blogging here too so will leave that for now!

I was doing my best to get into his pants but he wasn't making it easy. We had coffee a few times, but most often I'd see him when other people were around and they're not occasions conducive to totally scoring already.

One evening, we'd been having group drinks at his office before heading off to another friend's place. On the way to the car I finally delivered the line that I'd hastily written, edited and rehearsed in the last 30 seconds. It was either one of these two, or maybe something completely different (memory is a sly octopus):

"There's something I want to tell you but I don't know if I should."
"There's something I need to tell you but I wish I didn't have to."

Something typically subtle and obscure. Point being, it was an opening hook that could be bitten if he was up for it, or rejected if he was disinclined to go there.

At this point we were interrupted by some practical details involving the whole group, which felt like a guy slamming a round of beer on the table and toppling my pretty card castle just as I was assembling the final card...

Luckily the fish was well caught and would not be shaken off. A minute later we were on our own again, and C said "You were saying?"

YES. Yes yes yes. "I kinda sorta have a crush on you," I confessed.

"Er, I kinda sorta do too." Pause. "What should we do about it?"

"I think we should make out," I helpfully suggested. So we did, and those sugar sweet kisses turn out to be quite addictive cupcakes.

Eventually that night I made it home, buzzed, and slipped into bed. Sage gets the goss, theoretical high fives (don't have the co-ordination even when sober) etc.

Next day or two, chatting with C, and he likewise was glowing... but admits that in his blind rage of happiness he unthinkingly told some mutual friends and they said "oh yeah... Sage and M, aren't they engaged?" Thus raising a big red 'whoops' flag.

Before this, Sage & I had more-or-less kept this to ourselves. We'd had a few casual forays, taken a sip or two at the swinging scene, but it was our private business and we hadn't asked ourselves if we wanted to "come out" to anyone. Not that there was anything to come out about. Hmm, a few agenda items to discuss :)

A couple of days later, we're at a mid-winter Christmas party at another mutual friend's place (C's ex actually). This is the first time the three of us have caught up since I pounced on C. I arrive with Sage, and there a lot of people and I feel a tad self-conscious. Not sure who knows, what people are thinking, and I don't want Sage to feel odd. There are "Hello my name is... " tags. C is Bad Santa, Sage writes "Shiney and new" on his. (I kept that sticker for ages) It scared me a little, made me wonder if he felt the opposite of that. (At that point I hadn't read about NRE, but I was certainly recognising the dynamics. I like it when people bring up ORE too, though!)

The party goes on and I pretty much hang with Sage. I didn't think I was ignoring C but I was trying to avoid any PDA or excessive attention that could make Sage feel less welcome. At one point I get a text from C: "I'm confused. What's going on?" I ask Sage if it's okay if I go for a walk with C to chat, and he says - cool, go for it. I head off with C round the block, I explain that we don't know how private we wanna be, also want no one to feel abandoned at a party, Sage knows fewer people here than C or me, it's early days, baby steps, but all's good etc. In between the talking we make out too, of course... I mean, you have to appreciate any windows of opportunity :p

After the party, Sage and I were talking about how odd it was... how he felt like he should say something to clear the air, but what was that to say? He doesn't feel like he owns me, it isn't some kind of wife-swapping thing. On the other hand, we agreed it was important for there to be a clear communication from Sage to C that things were okay.

Therefore, this communique - 22 June 2009 from Sage to C (and cc to me):

"Hey C. It was good to see you yesterday. I was hoping to have a chance to talk to you about this face to face last night, but since I didn't, here goes.

As I'm sure M has told you, she and I have had a chat about she and you. I have no problem with this and I hope this will give the three of us a chance to hang out together too.

Just thought I'd set your mind at ease, in case you were at all concerned about where I stand :)

catch ya"

I love that little artifact of how it all began.

[fuchka]

Just realised that my tendency to ramble and cut a short story long may come across a bit "special snowflake". I'll try for something more bite-sized today.

I'm m, M, mimosa, mess

S is a sugar a sage salacious

C is a badass fist in the face, "one of the sweetest guys you'll ever meet", secretly loves funk, wears black and jeans

I guess maybe you don't need to know us; we can be placeholders and you can do the relationship algebra:

(m+s)+c or

(m+s)+(m+c) or

m(s + c)

From C's blog, Feb 2010:

"It's taken me a while to actually grok that there really are three people in this relationship and not just: me and her, her and him, two independently spinning wheels turning around the same axle."

Sage didn't expect the "threesome dynamics" to impact on his world as much as it did. He thought: good for M, she can go do her thing, and I'll do my own thing when she's off doing her own thing... It wasn't a DADT scenario at all, but more of a don't need to know, and don't expect to have to put that much energy into it.

But woah, poor dude, it's taken a lot of effort from him to make this work. Much of it was because of my fear that he actually wasn't okay, and me needing to talk with him about how he felt about this or that. I guess it was just all the initial hardcore communication work you need to put in, but we hadn't really thought how much that would be.

He had to do quite a bit of reassuring, which he found taxing at times. Once he said the most difficult thing about poly was having to constantly communicate to me that he was okay with things (e.g. me staying out with C when S wanted to head home - it wasn't enough for me to hear Sage say things were cool, it's almost like I needed to have a long cuddle and a chat to feel like we were all good before I could let him go home alone without me. You can see how this would grow tiresome quickly!)

Over time I've learnt to take things at face value, and trust S to tell me when he's feeling bad. He has a tendency to process 'minor' things himself, rather than bring them up as issues, but I guess that's his style. I need to believe him when he says he cares about our relationship too much to sabotage it by staying silent when he should communicate. And I have to stop fretting the little things.

Now and then I still need that almost non-rational reassurance, but it's far less often than before. We actually developed a speed solution for when I need reassurance. It's kind of embarrassing but it works...

When we're over talking and I just need a strong sign from him that things are cool, I flap my arms like a penguin and make this little growl-whine noise, and he pats me on the head and says "pats pats" (like "there there"), then we laugh at ourselves and kiss and we're done!

[Phy]

Hey there,

your story sounds great so far and I am curious how things will develope for you. I can so understand where you are coming from with the last post; we tend to have a similar dynamic. But your solution for it is priceless :D, I told my husband and he swore that he knows how this little noise has to sound like, just because I tend to be the same if discussions go on and on and no solution is in sight. Maybe he should use a similar strategy to counter it :p.

[fuchka]

@Mya - thanks :) I know I'm getting off fairly lightly on the LDR front. So far I've been spoilt in that I haven't needed to deal with that additional complexity... At least for me there's an end in sight - planning to move back to NZ at the end of next year.

@Phy - aha! YES, so glad that I'm not the only one. Funny if you started doing the penguin too ;) Thanks for your message. I've been reading your blog and loving your story-telling skills

[fuchka]

Of course there are varied levels of expectations, certainty and commitment between different relationships at different times. Even so, I'm not really into referring to relationships in hierarchical terms (primary, secondary) because some important things feel equivalent for me. We all have equal respect, are equally autonomous agents and our feelings are equally valued (i.e. no one has veto power). We work together to make sure everyone is cared for. But beyond this realm of care & respect, equivalence isn't possible, and isn't really the point anyway.

That said: I've sometimes found it hard to separate my sense of non-hierarchy on the one hand, with my sense that it's important to 'keep it real' and see each relationship for what it is. Right now I am more "sure" of Sage than Carob, in terms of being compatible as "life partners". I am not too bothered by it, because I think becoming more certain of these things sometimes just needs time. I also don't think "life partnership" is the goal, or the measure of success of a relationship. And yet, it is something that's been on my mind recently.

With Sage, I know we are compatible all the way. I want to live with him longtime, and I've really been missing him since he's moved to another country. (He's been gone since July; we've seen each other a few times but it's been pretty bleh to be apart.) We share the same basic values. I not only respect and admire him, but I aspire to be like him in many ways. I love how he is considerate to other people's needs, and treads gently on this earth. We inspire each other to be better people.

With Carob, I have similar feelings of admiration and inspiration. He definitely challenges me to be a better person in a lot of ways. But... I'm not sure that we share a connection all the way (?) It's hard to express, and it's certainly sounding like a hierarchy, huh?

I don't know, it's something like a fundamental moral/aesthetic, maybe even cultural, connection that I have with Sage; and I'm unsure whether I have the same kind of connection with C. I'm keen to find out... I trust Carob entirely, I love him deeply and want to share my life with him, and on the level we're at right now, things are great and I have no complaints. But before I feel sure of making serious 'life plans' with him, intertwining our futures more intimately, I'd want to feel that bedrock... Obviously not identical to what I feel with Sage, but some solid ground. Without this, I think we can't go much further than where we are now: close friends and lovers, but more like visitors in each other's houses.

Hmm.

I'm writing this in a bit of a sideways mood. C has been staying over for the last couple of days but he's been kind of in his own space. I'm happy he's comfortable to do his own thing, but I feel strangely separate from him all day, though it's lovely to cuddle in bed together at night.

Don't get me wrong. We share common interests and passions apart from sex (ha!), and from time to time have worked on projects together... but when we have done this (worked on something together), it's usually been me initiating it or driving it. This is making me wonder if I'm pushing things. Maybe he's just not that into the same stuff as I am, or is more interested in different things...

If so, well, that's cool but I'd like to know because the kind of relationship I want from a life partner is someone who I can team up with whole-heartedly to enrich not only our own lives, but the community around us (as much as we can). Carob and I have been together long enough that we seem to be drifting into assumptions that we're compatible as life partners... He's been feeling some tension around this e.g. Sage being married to me is already there as my "official" partner. In my opinion the issue isn't "how do we accommodate the three of us in the same metaphysical relationship space?" but rather "is this where I want to go with C?" 'Cos I don't think Carob and I have to go there just because it's where Sage and I went.

Ah. Trying to parse which bits are related to overall poly dynamics, and which bits are just how things are between C & me, and which bits are just my funny head space right now.

(I thought I'd blog on this even just to articulate this better to myself. I've talked with C about some of this before, but not in particular about how I've been feeling this weekend. Will definitely chat with him if I feel I need to!)

[rory]

When we're over talking and I just need a strong sign from him that things are cool, I flap my arms like a penguin and make this little growl-whine noise, and he pats me on the head and says "pats pats" (like "there there"), then we laugh at ourselves and kiss and we're done!

Awwww :p

Maybe you could talk to C and see how he feels about the projects you've done. You having initiated more may not necessarily mean that he is any less enthusiastic than you are, it might just be that you have more ideas/energy to get things rolling. :) Otherwise, I think aspects of compability are important things to consider.

[fuchka]

Maybe you could talk to C

What?! Talking?!?!!

:p

Yeah, I tend to get tangled up in my own thoughts, but it's usually not for too long. Just add a bit of olive oil and the spaghetti falls right off the fork.

Blogging helped actually. Had a cuddle and chat. (Love cuddle chats!) Carob agreed we hadn't done that many projects together recently. I mean, there's cosy stuff like cooking dinner together, cuddling, watching movies. There's some domestic stuff (which, not living together, the two of us don't have that much of). There's socialising with family and friends. But we have been missing the joint creative projects thing of late. We have damn good conversations, always, but I also crave the practicals.

There are definitely things that I know we'd like to do together, or at least that we want to explore to see if we like it. Given limited time, we obviously can't do everything we want to do together. And there may be other things going on in our lives that we might want to prioritise. Each person is a free agent and drives their own schedules, yada yada, all obvious stuff really. Didn't need to make any decisions or agreements. It was enough simply to acknowledge that this was an area we hadn't touched much recently.

He asked me if I had any particular concerns around this... and I really don't. This isn't a problem, it's just a thing. If we do more stuff together, we'll learn more about how we work as a 'team', and what we share as dreams. If we don't, then we don't --- and that's okay, just a choice. Definitely not deal breaker material; things are very very beautiful and I'm loving our relationship.

Wow. Communication isn't always easy, but it feels right to keep trying, keep fumbling for the words.

[rory]

What?! Talking?!?!!

:p

Perish the thought! :D

Wow. Communication isn't always easy, but it feels right to keep trying, keep fumbling for the words.

Agreed!

[fuchka]

Carob is getting into something (something he's really interested in and passionate about) which will likely have some serious ethical decisions along the way. It's an area I have not much experience in and I don't really know what to think. I feel initially uneasy about some things but I know I haven't explored these ideas much, and I don't really have well-formed opinions on this particular issue. Also, my perspective is skewed because I do come from a place of privilege on this topic, and it's hard to figure how this influences (and possibly invalidates?) my point of view.

I'm feeling, though, that I'd rather simply not care what he does in this case... I'd in some ways prefer to keep my emotional distance, maybe something like DADT but with your personal life! I think that this could work --- unless you expect more closeness than this... ? It's something I haven't thought about much til now, because it hasn't been an issue.

The risk for me is caring too much about his life decisions, and feeling betrayed or upset if he chooses a path that I wouldn't be comfortable with. I'd rather not get this close, I'd rather leave room for us to still be able to be together, even if we disagree on ethical choices like this. This is something that needs me to examine and moderate myself, I guess.

We don't have to agree on everything, and ultimately I value his freedom. There's a baseline moral we agree on, pretty much of the "harm not but do what ye will" variety. However, I have some other concerns that feed into my own moral decisions. These are more personal to me, and not necessarily something I feel comfortable expecting from other people.

Well. I've been disinclined to talk things through with him, and recently he's been telling me how frustrating this is for him. Both of us (like many people, I suppose) work things out through conversations. He's felt like he hasn't had me as a sounding board for his decisions in this area. To quote him directly: "Aren't I allowed to have a moral quandry?"

Yeah, of course he is. And I certainly hope I'm not a holier-than-thou person... I just feel vulnerable somehow. He's going to make whatever decision he wants to, in the end, whether I like it or not. This is as it should be.

I know that talking with him would make things clearer in my mind and also his, it definitely would. So what am I afraid of? I guess I'm afraid of becoming invested in this issue. It's something that's going quite deep for me spiritually. I want to be able to continue adventuring with him (at least in other ways) no matter what he decides to do in this sphere. But I'm scared that if I get into the nitty gritty of this, I'll start to care more, and I'll be open to being hurt more if he sees things differently to me, and acts in ways I find personally objectionable.

Hell, no one's perfect. But this is some heavy shit, something that would be a big deal for me (and is obviously a big deal for him). Ultimately, I'd rather he followed his own path on this one regardless of what I think.

Ah, but he wants to know what I think! I'm finding this hard. I must try to deal with my own hang ups and communicate as much as I can. I understand where he's coming from - of course he'd rather work it through together. But I can't bring myself to get in the boat on this one if we don't both get to hold the rudder.

[AnnabelMore]

Wow, I'm so curious... what could his new project be?? Something political, religious? Is he a member of Wikileaks? Is he going to drill for oil on environmentally sensitive land? Mysterious mysteries!

I think that we owe our partners, and that includes close friends, our honest opinions. You may not get to make the final decision, but I'm sure you'll have an influence on his thinking. I know that if one of my partners refused to even talk to me about a particular topic I'd be hurt and confused and it might make me feel distanced from him/her... talking is just so important to me, talking and touch (cuddle chats ftw).

Of course you can always give him your honest opinion and yet decline to engage in a long, prolonged discussion of all the details. Balance.

[rory]

^I second the curiosity.. :p My guesses went more along the lines of:
- he becomes a doctor and performs abortions, which you think is murder
- he becomes a hunter and you're a vegetarian
Annabel's suggestions are a bit more dramatic, though. :cool:

Carob is getting into something (something he's really interested in and passionate about) which will likely have some serious ethical decisions along the way. It's an area I have not much experience in and I don't really know what to think. I feel initially uneasy about some things but I know I haven't explored these ideas much, and I don't really have well-formed opinions on this particular issue. Also, my perspective is skewed because I do come from a place of privilege on this topic, and it's hard to figure how this influences (and possibly invalidates?) my point of view.

I think the only way forward to me would be to face that discomfort, and take the risk that your view may change (or it may not). As in, to discuss all of it, the parts that make you uncomfortable, and the parts that may feel like judgement to him, in order to understand each others feelings about the topic. I would have a lot harder time with my partner doing something I feel is unethical if I didn't understand his/her reasons for doing it. If I understand it, I may not still accept it, but it makes it easier for me to accept him/her even with a differing opinion.

[nycindie]

Wow, I'm so curious... what could his new project be?? Something political, religious? Is he a member of Wikileaks? Is he going to drill for oil on environmentally sensitive land?
^I second the curiosity.. :p My guesses went more along the lines of:
- he becomes a doctor and performs abortions, which you think is murder
- he becomes a hunter and you're a vegetarian
Ha! I was thinking it is something extremely kinky.

[fuchka]

AnnabelMore, rory, nycindie - Thanks for your replies! Wish I could relieve your curiosities, but ah... let's just say, for legitimate reasons I cannot :)

Yes, I know I needed to be more forthcoming, not keep my thoughts to myself. As I tried to discuss it I realised there was perhaps a confusion in my head between something he's decided to do vs something he's deciding whether to do. If he hasn't decided yet, the conversation is more about nutting it out. If he's decided to do it already, it's more about his justification and me understanding that.

Given I wasn't sure of what I thought either, it helped to get a clear frame for discussion.

The urgency of this issue has passed for now, as he decided against taking the opportunity this time. Hmm, given I can't be more specific I wonder if I should stop talking about it in abstract. Could make for a bit of a weird "Thing That Must Not Be Mentioned" plot line! But since it might come up again, I'll try to make a more specific frame of reference.

Let's just say there's an experiment C would really like to run in theory, and he is working on the experiment itself as well as looking for subjects for the experiment. There are possible objections to the experiment itself (I'm not sure if I have any absolute objections to this) but there are possible ethical issues depending on which subjects he selects.

Whatever you're imagining is probably far more interesting than the reality! I liked your guesses so far *grin* Obviously can neither confirm nor deny.

Anyway, where we've got to: he will continue working on the experiment, and thinking of possible subjects. But he wants to be able to talk if things are getting ethically murky.

I'd like to be communicative as much as possible, and I have abandoned the DADT idea (yeah yeah, y'all knew it wouldn't work). If the need arises to talk about this again, it will help to make it clear whether it's something he's going to do anyway, regardless of my opinions, when we discuss it. Most probably he'll be looking to sound off to me re: ethics, and I really should be open to this (inspite of my fears that we will disagree in the end)

Well, so much for that mystery in a teacup!

Been busy, Sage is getting here late on Friday (YAY!) and four days after that we are travelling with a mutual friend to visit family and other friends and take a holiday... Travelling for a month, woo! We've made a pact (the three of us travelling) to write together for an hour a day when we're away - not sure of the project, maybe a collection of stories. Will be fun to spend time.

Once I get back from holiday overseas, I have two weeks here in New Zealand again before I move to Australia.

Clearing out the house as a couple of friends are house&cat-sitting from next week, til the end of next year! Long distance ahoy

C & I having some poignant moments, taking it sweetly, luxuriously ambling conversations, cuddle chats, etc. Am going to miss his touch

[fuchka]

Carob and I are ride-sharing with Brian, a guy we've recently met. I pick up Brian, and go to C's work. While we're waiting for C to come out (har har), Brian asks me:

"So what's the deal with you and Carob?"

Me: (pause) "Well, we're really good friends"

B: "Oh. So just friends then."

Me: "Um, well, you could say we're lovers... but I'm not monogamous... and I am with someone else too who I've been living with, just he's not in the country right now... "

Later Carob was amused but also a little face-palm about it. He suggested: "Carob's my boyfriend and I'm also happily married to someone else."

So simple, yeah? Too simple perhaps ;)

Nah, I see his point. I just haven't figured out how I like to put things... I really don't like saying I have a husband (not sure why)... I hardly ever call Sage my husband. Only when I really have to. I'd rather use his name, and I definitely do with people who know him or know of him. With people who don't know him, I tend to say "one of my friends..." or (less frequently) "my partner" or "one of my partners"

(Actually I was teaching recently and I told an anecdote beginning "One of my friends...", then realised I was talking about S, and joked "... ah, I'm married to him now, I should really stop introducing this story as 'one of my friends'")

But seriously? I find it difficult to know what people are getting at. Friends and lovers, friends who are lovers... Surely, they're not just interested in whether or not we're having sex. And you can have close intimacy with friends... I kinda don't get the distinction between friends and "just friends" but I'm okay with being bemused. Just from time to time there are some possibly avoidable awkward moments in conversations with other people.

Both Sage and Carob have no issue with the labels.

Sage introduces me as his wife (as a side note, in private he calls me "mife" (man-wife) - I love it!)

Carob calls me his girlfriend

I call Sage my... friend
and Carob... also my friend

They don't mind my reticence as such, but I don't think they get what my hang up is. I'm not exactly sure myself, though every now and then I have a go at teasing it out.

It's not that I just want to feel unique or undefinable. Or maybe it is (I hope not, but egos can be weird like that.)

What's so wrong with summarising things as Carob suggested: "I'm happily married, and I also have a boyfriend"?

I guess maybe I feel that it's too neatly boxed. People could say "oh, okay" like those words convey something more meaningful than "we're all really good friends". (Mm, maybe the generic word "friends" suggests a different kind of intimacy, with no sex or romance, and a looser sense of commitment... maybe?)

Maybe I just am passionate about friendship! I don't like the idea of "just friends" being some kind of lower level of importance, and I'm politically against using words that indirectly cheapen the ideal of friendship.
Hmm, that feels closer to the core of it than any of my other guesses.

That said, sometimes short and clinical works best.

Earlier this year, I went to the doctor for something that was hard for me to see a doctor about, and I asked whether Sage and Carob would come along with me. They were okay about it, but asked me how I would introduce them. I thought that a very quick summary would work best.

I said to the doctor: "These are my partners, S & C"
She said, "Sorry?" and I repeated it, and then she said "Oh, okay." and we moved on.

Perhaps I should try that more often :p

[nycindie]

I don't see Carob's suggestion as better or even simpler than yours. In fact, mentioning you have a boyfriend and a husband could be much more complicated, depending on who you're talking to.

I got married for the first time at 39, and it took me a long time to get comfortable with the word "husband." I like "partner" for that kind of relationship. But I am similar to you in that I do not take friendship lightly, and it's an honor to have someone in my life as a friend. Nothing wrong with that, nor with referring to your loves as friends. Nothing wrong with that at all. I think you explained your situation to Brian perfectly.

[fuchka]

It can be scary to do something against the grain, that mainstream society doesn't acknowledge or accept fully, something that is "odd".

When things get tough, you can question yourself - is it because I'm wanting too much? Have I tempted fate? It would be easier, maybe, to colour inside the lines.

If you follow the rules and fail, it's bad luck. If you break the rules and fail, it's your fault. Or so it can feel sometimes...

I love the poly community - by no means homogeneous, but sharing an openness to questioning where people draw the lines... taking away (or repositioning?) some of the safety scaffolding and seeing what (if anything) falls over, and how far we can now build up, or sideways...

Maybe we're tripping, maybe we are messing with the idea of what successful relationships are, maybe we're doomed, I don't know - but I'm glad to be here.

[fuchka]

Sage gets here tomorrow late night. Trying to finish up work for the year before heading away next week. Away for just over a month, will be a decent break if I manage to not get twisted into too much family stuff. Will be good to have S by my side. Heaps to do before that though, trying not to get strung out, but things are getting emotional.

Carob teary this morning, not looking forward to me going, afraid of things changing; we're feeling the ramp running out and it's making our emotions pretty wacky.

Wish I had time for more cuddles. Dealing with emotions is important, but sometimes you gotta to defer that stuff cos other things need doing too. Ah, striking the balance. Hard to be productive when you feel upset, hard to take time to talk when you have impeding deadlines... When things are like this I really feel the time-suck of poly stuff. I wonder whether I'm doing the right thing, by following a path that requires so much intense communication time.

In a way it's worth it, in a way it feels maybe selfish?

Had dinner with C's ma, her boyfriend, and C's brother last night. Went well, food was good, and it was great to spend time and chat.

I kind of joked about something in conversation that touched a nerve for him.

Earlier this year C and I were both presenting at a conference. At the end of his speech, he made crazy poetic declarations of love to me, something like "you are the meat to my salt", was hilarious and cute. I was surprised and touched but also a tad embarrassed... I don't usually wear my relationships on my sleeve, and it felt a wee bit like someone putting a flag into me. Especially cos the conference is more his scene, as in, he knows more of the people there than I do. But it wasn't a problem for me at all, it was a really loving gesture.

When I presented, the person introducing me said that I probably have something to say back to C. I said something along the lines of "you seem like a nice guy, don't call me, I'll call you." Was in good fun and it wasn't an issue at the time.

Anyway I thought it was a funny anecdote and I shared it at dinner. Seemed to go down well but this morning he was saying that it made him feel weird, that I could be embarrassed by that. After talking a little, I realised we're both kinda messed up with how to conceive of next year, the looming LDR, and that's making everything heightened. Well. LDR for a year, but we'll see each other through the year. And it's not _that_ long distance. We should be right. But eh, it's been a hard year and next year will have it's own things going on. The growing gloom...

I just want a hug. From anyone, really :)

Little things are feeling like big things. I don't know whether to vent when it's kind of irrational. (Little things like me asking him to help me with the dishes before he left, and him heading off to work, maybe forgetting or caught up in his own thoughts. I work from home, so it feels sucky to be left with all the kitchen/dinner mess. Little things like that! I fear it's better out than in, but sometimes you say things in the heat of emotion that are much harsher than intended once the words cool.)

Glad I'm getting a holiday soon, seems like I need it :)

[rory]

Virtual *hug* (please try to make time for some IRL ones, too :))

Wish I had time for more cuddles. Dealing with emotions is important, but sometimes you gotta to defer that stuff cos other things need doing too. Ah, striking the balance. Hard to be productive when you feel upset, hard to take time to talk when you have impeding deadlines... When things are like this I really feel the time-suck of poly stuff. I wonder whether I'm doing the right thing, by following a path that requires so much intense communication time.

In a way it's worth it, in a way it feels maybe selfish?

I can understand the feeling of time-suck. For me it doesn't come up often, but when everything's intense... I can't relate to the feelings of selfishness, though. But I do think that when emotions get really intense, my judgement is not always the best. I mean, I still balance the relationship stuff well, but my studying takes the hit 'cause I can't concentrate. [Yet, it's not like monogamy never requires emotional work.]

[fuchka]

(PS (pre-script!): rory - thanks for replying, and it's interesting you didn't identify with the selfish thing. When I get a chance might write more about what I meant by that.)

They say home is where the heart is, and long distance-ing can feel a bit like you're straddling countries.

I know I've been getting off lightly in comparison to some others (a local poly friend of mine had been dealing with two, and at some stage I think three, separate long distance relationships at once; some of these were very very long distance)

Mine is more of a medium distance, really. It's a 3 1/2 hour flight that costs about what I earn for a week to make the round trip.

Anyway, Sage is back in town! "It's so good to see him" is a whoppin understatement. (I've noticed that there's someone else called Sage in this forum --- whoops. I was thinking of using two names for S anyway: Sage/Sugar. Also for C: Carob/Cam(embert) Since we're all about the more-than-one I'm sure we can cope with this.)

Also had a surprise visit from a couchsurfer who I hosted earlier this year. He turned up just before I was due to pick Sugar up from the airport (still with me? ha!) and, to be honest, my heart sank cos I was looking forward to time by myself, and then time-for-just-the-two-of-us (s & m...e). But then pulled myself together and acknowledged it really was cool to see him (the CSer) again and it's been quite fun around the house.

It's time to pack away most of our stuff as a couple of friends are moving in to house/cat sit next week... FOR A WHOLE YEAR! It's all on; I'm moving!

First, holiday. Leaving on Tuesday. Saga* & I are going away with one of S's best friends for just over a month. This is one of the best friends I had a crush on (the other one is the best mate of Cam's). Will tell that story at some point, for AnnabelMore :) (* who said I just had to stick to two names, there are no rules here. Will stick to the same initial though... promise :p)

Was in a pretty messed up mood when I wrote the last post, feeling much better now. Writing helps, talking with the people concerned (obviously) helps more. Did a "you didn't help with the dishes!" vent to C the other day, just needed to let off steam even though I wasn't feeling rational/reasonable. I couched it as an emotional need.

The conversations went a bit like this:
me - C, I'm feeling like shit, I need to vent, this isn't well-thought out... all good?
C - vent away
me - BLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
C - I'm really sorry I didn't help with the dishes. Just slipped my mind
me - I know, it's cool, I love you, just BLEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGH
C - *hugs*
me - *hugs* cya soon

Carob & I are gonna be well medium-distance, I think :) And for now, the three of us in the same city for two more days! If S & I get enough packing done, gonna chill out with C + his mate (yeah the bestmatecrushthing) + possibly some other mutual friends this arvo. Got a breakfast date with Sage, another of his close friends (no crush there, haha), Carob and the CSer on Monday. Actually haven't had a chance to tell C yet but I'm the mistress of scheduling (or at least I like to think so). Nah, I vaguely know his routines... mmm... okay scheduling is a whole other topic. Time to get back to the putting-stuff-in-boxes game (much more fun with objects than people!)

I <3 home

[fuchka]

I don't see Carob's suggestion as better or even simpler than yours. In fact, mentioning you have a boyfriend and a husband could be much more complicated, depending on who you're talking to.

I got married for the first time at 39, and it took me a long time to get comfortable with the word "husband." I like "partner" for that kind of relationship. But I am similar to you in that I do not take friendship lightly, and it's an honor to have someone in my life as a friend. Nothing wrong with that, nor with referring to your loves as friends. Nothing wrong with that at all. I think you explained your situation to Brian perfectly.

I found it really, really intriguing to read this. I thought it was just me with the obfuscation obsession. Re-thinking my critique of myself... woah, double critique!

I think what I did wrong with Brian, perhaps, was something I didn't mention in the original post. Just as I'd given my version of how things stood between C & me, Carob came to the car. The timing was funny and I was already feeling amused by how convolutedly I'd explained things. So I said: "Hey C, haha, I was just attempting to answer Brian's question 'What's the deal between you and Carob?' and I think I was being confusing as usual." It was half-joking but also half-serious, as in: I did feel a tad like a failure for not being able to state the record clearer.

If I'm more confident with my own ways of expressing such things in the future, it could improve things! Thanks for sharing your perspective, nycindie

[fuchka]

Gong Xi Fa Cai! I've been mostly offline for the last few weeks as I've been travelling - visiting family and hanging out with old friends and new friends. The time away is finally coming to a close; I'm heading back to work in two days. It's been great to have a serious amount of down-time, and I'm now looking forward to getting the business end of the year rolling.

Sugar and I took advantage of the holiday together to get all honeymoon-y. We needed it. Since he left for overseas mid-2011 I'd seen him a few times, but it was always when at least one of us had other things on the go (work commitments, etc) so it wasn't like clear days lounging around with each other. Also, the windows of time were so short that we'd just gotten used to the other person again when it was time to say goodbye. That's long-distance for you, eh!

It has also been cool to hang out with Gilby, one of S's best friends who was travelling with us over Christmas/New Years. G is a good mate of mine too, and we used to flat together a few years' back. I... kinda have a crush on him. But according to Glib, nothing can happen sexually between us as long as Sage is alive. Literally.

The first time he said that I was genuinely appalled. It seemed so twisted... but after a few conversations on the topic I understand (at least intellectually) what he means. From his perspective, he can't imagine being okay with one of his friends hooking up with his partner. And so he cannot really connect with Sage being okay with that too (although he is willing to accept that it is true)... therefore he can't go there himself.

But I find the attraction quite overwhelming at times. Like today, Glib and I had the day together as S had to fly out to head back to work. In the evening, the two of us (G & I) sat with a shisha for hours, talking, snacking, letting the smoke and conversation wind its way around us, and at times I felt so keenly in the same space as him that I just wanted to touch him, to go to bed and talk some more. I have to remember that it wouldn't be cool, that my advances would probably be frustrating (at worst), or at least off-key. It would be easier if he had said he wasn't attracted to me. However knowing that he would be up for it if I wasn't with S is tough!

Just had to take some time out meditating so I wouldn't pounce on G. We're staying a couple of days extra in the hostel before we also head off. I decided it would be better to sleep in bunk beds tonight, so I'm sleeping on top of G (sadly in different beds) and we're both awake (me probably more than him) and... I dunno. I hope he's happy that I'm keeping my distance. I need to think of this as how I show love and respect to him.

It just means I have to trust that he meant it when he rejected my advances in the past... Part of me keeps wanting to question him again. Like, really? You still feel this way? Don't you want to twist our bodies together and see if it feels good? My instinct is to take opportunities to explore like this... I need reasons to hold back, and sometimes I feel like the levies are breaking.

A really fast way to cure a crush, I've found, is to act on it and find out it's not what you imagined. Hilariously bad kisses for example and poof! The crush is gone. Maybe there's a less awkward way, but I find this effective and worth it :) I don't really mind the awkward too much, and it's a true win-win... You either lose the crush (a win in my books) or get sweet lovin...

Attraction can feel really intense, especially sexual attraction. It's sometimes helped to let feelings of sexual attraction ebb out into the broader notion of attraction to 'intimacy', i.e. recognising that, yeah, I may be horny for someone and up for sex, but more fundamentally what I'm up for is mutually-appealing intimacy. And there are many ways to be intimate, including giving someone space or spending time together doing things you both like.

It's hard, though... sex can be this debilitating drive (at least for me). I'm still working through these dynamics and I don't feel like I have those oysters full of wisdom pearls just yet. Hence I'm still awake... heh.

Hopefully will fall asleep soon, and the tomorrow make it through one more night of sharing a room with G without misbehaving in a bad way. Serenity prayers ahoy.

Just gotta think - two days and I'll see Carob. Wooh! I'm sure he'll know what to do with this tension I've built up *grin*

[nycindie]

A really fast way to cure a crush, I've found, is to act on it and find out it's not what you imagined. Hilariously bad kisses for example and poof! The crush is gone.

Hahaha!!! That reminds me of a time, many years ago, when I had a crush on this guy. He was much taller than I, a NYC fireman, and kinda looked like Paul Newman. We had some mutual friends and met each other hanging out with them. I was really attracted to him, and flirted heavily. After a couple of weeks, he asked me out. I was giddy with anticipation.

So, there we are at dinner, and he bent his head down to look at the menu... plugs! I guess since he was so tall, and only in his 30s, I never noticed or realized he'd had a hair transplant. And it was a bad one. Seeing the plugs all lined up in rows on his scalp totally grossed me out and I was suddenly UN-crushing on him. From that moment on, in an instant - ZERO attraction!

Funny, I haven't thought about that in years.

[fuchka]

Heh, nycindie - I had to look at at a few pics online to understand what you meant. Yeah, I getchya :) Though I mostly get turned off by people's approach to sex or how they are physically intimate rather than their looks... and maybe it's a compatibility thing rather than anything else.

I made a comment previously about sometimes worrying about being selfish. What I mean is that... loving relationships are really pleasant, especially close friends or lovers who are a real comfort in my life. Yes, they challenge me but also support me immensely and we have a lot of fun and pleasure of course :)

Sometimes I wonder whether I'm being overly self-interested, given the other things I could be doing with my time. For example, I could choose to reach out into the community rather than soften my own personal life.

I tend to think this way when I'm feeling unbalanced. I sometimes feel like I'm enjoying myself too much and taking things too easy, surrounding myself with people who will be nice to me, and not doing my best to contribute to day-to-day life in wider society, doing things that I really would like to do but I deprioritise to make time for a lover.

Like, I could be helping out in the neighbourhood, or seeing more of a sick relative... but instead I'm filling my hours with more me-ish-time (cos time spent with close companions is sort of like me-time).

Of course nothing is really that simple (either-or) but I think this balance is a real one for me, and one that makes me feel a bit wobbly at times if I have been sliding one way or the other.

I guess it's similar to "work-life" balance, if "work" is community-facing things and "life" is my personal life.

[fuchka]

Also, came across this when I was on holiday:

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=373&pictureid=1617

:D

Bought a couple of extra to send to anyone who's up for being a snail mail pen pal! :eek: Yep, old school... I love posted letters. PM me if you're keen :)

[fuchka]

Came out (as non-monogamous, queer and a general deviant) to my closest friend at work today. Felt good.

[fuchka]

Unfortunately I don't have much time to read/write here anymore, but I think I might try to keep up with my own blog even if (despite best intentions) I can't manage to read everyone else's.

Recently shifted countries ~1 1/2 months ago, so now long-distance with Carob - my other relatively long-term partner. It's a bit like standing on the other foot.

I do seem to have difficulty putting things into words sometimes. Maybe it's because I seek the perfect phrase.

For example, when explaining to people why I was leaving town (before I headed away) my explanations seemed to falter. Many years back, when I was in high school, I decided it was dumb to move cities just to be with a boyfriend/girlfriend and I promised myself I would never do this. And here I am breaking my own promise. Quitting a job I like, leaving a place I love because someone misses me and I miss them back.

Well, it's pretty basic when you put it that way but it seems overly sentimental to me (as in, it didn't really communicate what I was feeling). But yesterday as I was writing a letter to a friend, I unconsciously summed it up perfectly. I said "Just moved over here to keep Sage company." Yes! That's pretty much it :) It wasn't an unbearable aching (well, not always), it was just a really wanting to be together.

This is the first time since Carob and I got together that we have lived in different places. I've travelled quite a bit, so been away before (for up to 3 months at a time) but it's a distinct feeling to be settling down somewhere else. The missing feels more acute, like growing apart is more of a possibility.

C's heading over here in two days to visit for a week and a half! Couldn't be sooner. Really craving touch. Recently he got together with a friend of his who I also know and like. She's lovely. It's the first time for me facing the role of the Old Relationship partner in a new relationship. So far it's been okay but it's fairly new.

Not having had the experience of that perspective, I've had this fear that I wouldn't be up to the task. That despite my hopes for myself, I would actually get insanely jealous if anyone tried to share my precious toys with me for real. It's fine to play, but don't forget it's going back in my toybox once you're done.

As much as I worry that I'm deep down a hypocrite, I worry more than I won't have the guts to admit that to myself if it is true. Like, I will pretend that I'm not feeling conflicted if I am.

I don't think either of these are serious fears... If I thought it was likely I'd be this way, I wouldn't be in these relationships. Nonetheless, I would really like some evidence of my ability to deal :) Seems like I might be about to get it.

As a side note, my eagerness to find out whether this poly deal was viable used to make me feel overly enthusiastic about my partners finding new partners. I was curious about whether the dynamics would work, whether we were all strong enough... and maybe also knew it would take the social pressure off me in terms of other people's judgment. None of these good reasons to rush other people into other relationships! (Well, there's probably no good reasons actually). It was a funny impetus to recognise, and quite simple to squash thankfully.

I'm in a big city now and there's quite a poly community here. Went to a discussion group a couple of weeks ago; very illuminating. Like this forum, but in person. I just sat there melting happily into a chair.

Hope y'all doing well

[fuchka]

"There's no Mary Sue. you know what I mean?"

Carob is talking to Sugar in the other room. All three of us are a little bit drunk; to be honest, I'm probably more drunk that either of them.

I have no idea what I'm talking about. S comes in briefly, I hope to give me a kiss but it's really to get something, maybe ar roll of toilet paper.

"You can't go backwards. You can't go from that to Seinfield." Sugar says. C agrees. They're talkling about something. I'm too wasted to understand.

It makes me happy that I'm weak, that I'm somewhat an imbecile. It can be tough being the middle person, how they say? The pivot.

I didn't mean to be this drunk but it's arelief. Nothing much is expected of me. Other people are happy without me.

I am happy. I am sleepy I can be incompetent and snooze and everything will be okay. I love my life.

[rory]

I can sometimes feel stressed being the hinge, too (particularly in a group of four where there are so many dynamics). Maybe I should try alcohol to give myself a break, hah! :D

[fuchka]

Maybe, rory! Hehe. Was unintended for me, but nice.

C cooking a very late brunch (at 4.30 in the afternoon) - he's hanging with friends later on tonight. I'm having a night in, maybe with Sage if he's around, or perhaps just by myself.

It's been great having Carob here on holiday and will be sad when he leaves early Sunday morning. This is also the most consecutive nights I've spent sleeping with him - since last Wednesday when he arrived. Even when C and I were in the same city (and I was long distance with Sage) C & I didn't sleep over nights together for extended periods. Longest was a holiday together for our 2nd year anniversary, and that was maybe 4 nights? And by accident actually, we got caught to a snow storm and were stranded for an extra one or two nights.

So yes. Interesting period, but I'm ready to get back into a routine. We've been keeping holiday time and eating out quite a bit. Haven't seen too much of S but things are well.

We've just moved house... It was really good timing actually because we still have one more week in our old place so I have been able to stay in the new place with Carob while Sage chilled out at our old place. Meant we didn't have to fork out for motels or anything to give each other space.

Really feel for people who do LDRs and need to share living all together when a lover visits.

S has applied for a job at our home town (where C currently still lives). If he gets it, it's a permanent position that will start early next year. I am on unpaid leave from my job in the same city until round about then.

Carob was thinking of moving to find work in the town we are now, but we're feeling like it would be great to co-ordinate things better to minimise the living-apart times. So... if he does move here I hope it will be for something temporary instead of too permanent (that is, if S and I are moving back Feb next year!)

Regardless of what happens LDR-wise, we can handle it - though I'd prefer not to have to of course :)

[fuchka]

Slept with Sugar last night as C crashed over with another friend. Carob leaving town tomorrow morning. Ah... But if all goes to plan, it won't be too long before I see him again (I'm planning to head over there about this time next month)

Loved how easy we slipped in together and how good it felt to curl up to S. Even though Carob is leaving soon, it was good to spend some one-on-one time with Sugar. Have been missing it.

In the early hours of the morning I thought about sleeping alone... It's something I hardly ever do, but I'd like to make time for somehow.

Well, what I'd really like is to have whatever experiences are necessary to have enough empathy with how things are for other people. E.g. how things feel for S not having me around at times when he would like it. What it feels like to sleep alone in our house. Not necessarily to orchestrate opportunities, but really value chances when they come my way.

I know the same thing won't necessary feel the same for me as they feel for other people, and also there are some things I just won't be able to experience personally. But the small windows I've happened upon into how things roll on the "other sides" of my relationships have really helped me understand other points of view in a deeper way.

[rory]

Really feel for people who do LDRs and need to share living all together when a lover visits.

Oh no, we are happy as clams. One-bedroom flat for three people, what more could you want? :p Well, we make do with that, but it sure is nice this time to take a break from that and share a hotel room with Mya alone. :)

I know the same thing won't necessary feel the same for me as they feel for other people, and also there are some things I just won't be able to experience personally. But the small windows I've happened upon into how things roll on the "other sides" of my relationships have really helped me understand other points of view in a deeper way.

In an N there's a bonus in that even if you are a hinge of a V, you are a leg of a V at the same time. So, techically, you should be able to experience some of both sides. I haven't felt it to be much so, though. It's so individual. Even me and Mya, who are sort of in the exact same position, have somewhat different experiences in that. Then again, maybe we just happen to have personalities in our setting who experience things differently, yet you might find it more useful, if you feel more similarly to your partners. :)

[fuchka]

time can makes us happen

like a glass can cup a puddle
like a doorway holds visitors in knots
of conversation unraveling; released
from the confines of infinity
we grow caterpillar
wings

so

let's put lids
on pots to hear the steam
screaming i'm alive! run like sand
through the hour glass; i am
the bottom bowl
tasting you

[fuchka]

Carob left on the weekend. It took longer than I thought it would to reconnect with him this time... I've been going quite far on personal adventures and needed a bit of recalibration with his ways of being and putting things. Was all good, though.

Sad to see him off (of course) and mingled a bit with baseless fear of abandonment. He's recently hooked up with a sweet friend of his, Ella. I can tell she's really nice, though I know her much less well than he does. Apparently she's quite into him and he is likewise smitten (so so cute).

Last night they had a date to catch up, since he'd got back there the previous day. For this and other reasons we haven't had a proper chance to chat since he left. I think the contrast (seeing him almost 24/7, then not at all) was a bit unbalancing.

Anyway re: Carob's date with Ella last night, I wasn't feeling jealousy per se, but this odd longing... like ligaments were being stretched, and I really wanted to touch or talk just a little, to stop wobbling. I was surprised how much this coloured my mood. Anyway here's a snippet from an e-mail I wrote to C this morning:

last night, had strange emotions. was making out with sugar, was sweet... but it was mixed in with missing you and feeling non-rationally weird about you and ella... i tried to think maybe you guys were hooking up and having a good time and i tried to fill up my heart with the joy of that being a good thing, to somehow riff off my imagination of some kind of combined happy energies... but actually i felt odd, and sad, and missing you, and craving to resolve some unfinished threads of things between us, and yeah. just wasn't feeling good and i kinda had to sleep it off. didn't unload this shit on sugar, was quite tired anyway... mmm... yeah. i guess i'm just adjusting. it's heady eh. but good. real. baby steps. ah how often we are reborn

[NovemberRain]

oh, thank you for sharing the poetry. I really like it!

[fuchka]

oh, thank you for sharing the poetry. I really like it!

Thanks! Always nice to hear positive feedback :) Writing is very cathartic for me

[fuchka]

Sitting in Carob's living room. 5.45am and I haven't really been able to sleep yet, so was time to get out of bed - especially because it was getting kinda tight in there as C and Ella spread out a bit :p More on this later.

Yeah, so much has happened since last time I posted.

C's been hating work and really needs a change. Friends of his living in the same city Sugar & I have moved to suggested he take up work there. Would be good for him and, as a very pleasant side effect, mean we don't have to do long-distance, but...

Carob has just hooked up with this girl Ella and dynamics between them are such that it would be quite tough and possibly not viable to try long-distance for their relationship at this stage. So, he's pretty much having to weigh up options, i.e. 'do I stay or do I go'

When I describe the facts of the matter like that, it seems like a simple thing, but it's been slightly fucking with me a bit cos... y'know... missing. And hoping he gets what he needs. And not wanting to be too emotionally invested in what he picks in advance of him making up his mind. I mean, regardless of whether he moves to where I am or stays in our home town, we'll make it work.

That said, I'd obviously love if he was nearer. But if I dream dreams of him moving over, I reckon that just sets me up to feel almost personally rejected if he chooses to stay. I've seen little windows of this. So I've pushed pause in that little corner of my hope snowglobe - pending his decision, which should be soon.

That could come across as a bit unhealthy, like head-in-sand or something, but yeah. Given the dynamic - he's in a new relationship with someone in our home town, and LDR with me - I'd like to give myself the best chance of seeing things from a good perspective rather than warped by jealousy/insecurity/longing/disappointment/whatever. Things are a smidgen messy geographically right now, but... we can do this.

Meanwhile, Sugar had applied for a job back in our home town that would start once his current contract finishes. Unfortunately, he didn't get the job which was pretty shit for him personally and also for the neatness of our future plans. His chosen vocation is notoriously thin on the ground with permanent jobs, so for the foreseeable future (once this job ends early next year) he's either (a) giving up his dream occupation, and trying to cope with that (in the past, he's felt quite down when he hasn't been working in that field, and if you stay out too long it jeopardises your chances of returning to the profession) or (b) accepting short term assignments, possibly anywhere around the world...

He doesn't really want to choose (b) but not sure if (a) will make him happy. Guess we'll find out. Again, I'm trying to stay fairly detached from that. I'm keeping myself busy and cultivating a stable headspace, and also keeping open-minded as to where I live and work in the next few years. Our current plan is moving back to our home city once this job runs out, but really - who knows?

My only confidence is we can make it work, and we'll do our best to communicate through to the best solutions rather than slip into lowest common denominator by default. Have had "We can work it out" looping through my head fairly frequently of late :)

OK OK so enough of that already. I had fucking amazing sex last night. At the moment I'm back to home city for a visit. Sugar and I had to go to a friend's wedding in a nearby city so we thought we'd take the opportunity to drop by. S had to return to work but I'm staying another week. Is the first time I've been back since Carob and Ella hooked up, so... yeah. Before Sugar went back, we had a dinner the four of us. Was a tad off-kilter e.g. among other things: C had just told Ella the previous day that he was thinking of moving away, and she was understandably upset and I imagine feeling quite insecure about things... as for me, I hadn't yet caught up with Carob one-on-one since I'd been back, before the dinner. The order of things had got a bit topsy-turvy, but it needed to be that way to make time for everyone to meet up before S scooted off.

Still with me? ;)

Anyway, now Sugar is back and I'm here for another week by myself. Ella said she'd like to catch up with me once or twice before I go, so we took the chance to hang out a bit yesterday.

Well now.

She made me coffee and we were outside sitting on the grass at her place talking. First time we'd talked just the two of us since she and Carob got together. She wrote me a letter (handwritten letter, woo! Lady after my own tastes) which kinda expressed a bit of how she was feeling, but of course it's far superior to talk in person. We covered a bit of ground, then at one point she said "do you want to make out?"

Now Carob had teasingly mentioned things like threesomes, and dripped fantasies into my ear about how it would be to make out with Ella. I ran with them as fantasies sometimes, but really thought that it was presumptuous to assume that would be the case - especially since, as far as I knew, C hadn't brought this up with Ella.

Anyway, I actually had to think about whether I wanted to kiss her or not. I mean, if not for complicating factors, I'd be carefree and go with the vibe and see where things go. But I felt like I shouldn't be that impulsive, given their new relationship and not wanting to affect the healthy trajectory of that, esp with C still not sure of what he wants to do with moving or not. So I thought for a moment about potential pitfalls, if I felt like this was a right step... (this is very unusual for me, maybe I have finally grown up! Haha)

Anyway all signs pointed to: YES.

We kissed. We talked some more. We cuddled. It got darker. We made out some more. I shared passionately my limited knowledge of the visible constellations. She seemed to like that. We got cold, and went to bed. She is really beautiful and said that I was 'smokin hot', which floored me in the best way. At some point we got hungry as we both hadn't eaten since breakfast.

She suggested we catch up with Carob for food. I didn't mind either way - meeting up with him or not. The initial plan (before, ah, god, the sweet nakedness and taste of her skin) was for me to catch up with Ella and then swing round to C's and stay there the night. Now it seemed like we were gonna try this out, how nice is a triangle in bed together?

Turns out - VERY VERY VERY VERY nice. Holy fuck we had fun. I've had a few experiences of group sex but not many. This was a first for me - negotiating the emotions of three people in I suppose a V-shaped relationship bringing bodies together... I was concerned that everyone would feel included and safe and loved. From my perspective, that definitely happened. Lots of touching, group cuddles, I felt held and reassured even when I had the briefest press of skin-on-skin.

We dabbled with a bit of psychological play (apparently she's been discovering her submissiveness since she met Carob) and general roleplaying and a toyed a bit with the pain/pleasure tightrope. Not too much, just a taste. It was good.

We cuddled to sleep the three of us. Is a squeeze in the bed but we made an admirable effort to be sure. Unfortunately for me, though, I was too hyped up to be able to sleep. Not sure when we eventually turned in, but I gave sleeping a good go, at least 3 hours. It was cosy and I didn't want to hop out of bed as I usually do when I can't get to sleep. Also I didn't want them to wake up and wonder where I was, and worry I didn't feel like I had enough room, or I wasn't feeling comfortable for whatever reason.

Anyway, we're definitely going to have to step gently over the next wee while getting used to things. I want to leave enough room for Carob to figure what he wants. I want to let C and Ella's relationship between themselves stand up on its own legs. I'm open to things developing more as a threesome (or maybe foursome, I guess that's the inevitable question, though obviously not the foregone conclusion!) but it's early for their relationship and I'd like them to enjoy and navigate things a bit more just the two of them. If Carob decides to stay, they'll get plenty of space for that by default. So I can see why staying would be good for their relationship. If C can find better work here and sort himself out so he doesn't feel stuck in a rut here (like he does at the moment) it could be the neatest solution. But yeah, guess I'll see what he chooses.

Meanwhile, I'm still feeling really high from the spectacular sexing. My god, the intensity. I really really liked it. I'm keen to find out what the other two's verdicts are. They mumbled positively as they fell asleep but I'd like to look them in the eye over breakfast :) We're hopefully going to the local cafe at which the staff who know us seem to have assumed that Carob is cheating on me since I've been away. Hehe. Will be fun.

Okay, managed to kill an hour and a half writing this and other e-mails. 7am... wonder if I can persuade C + E to wake up. Maybe if I took coffee to bed...

[rory]

It seems like work/future insecurities are present in almost everybody's life... Here as well. Hopefully it will all work out good.

Yay for the hot sex. Sounds totally awesome. ;)

[fuchka]

It's been a hectic week. Was helping to organise an event on Thursday night (and performing at it), as well as participating in a 48 hour competition over the weekend, before heading back overseas. On the way I seem to have contracted some kind of head cold so tired, icky, heavy head, but happy.

It was so good to see Sugar and eat a home-cooked meal. Our place is really cosy and, even though we've only been here a month or so, it feels like a home-coming to return here. Nice.

Carob has decided to stay in our home town, with Ella. The decision hurt a bit and it did make me feel (non-rationally) like the less favourite person... but I knew it really wasn't about that. We talked and cuddled through some fairly ragged emotions and thoughts. I'm gonna miss him heaps, but we are going to try to do long-distance better (more video chat and projects together even from a distance.) I'm feeling good about the future.

In terms of Ella, well. Gosh. She's sweet, and soft, and very lovely. I asked her to be my girlfriend, and she said yes. Blush, scuff shoes, ah, *squee*

*moon-face*

Thought it was an appropriate time to agree to be Carob's girlfriend too. He's been calling me his girlfriend since we hooked up, and I've avoided the term for some reason... now it just feels right. I guess things feel settled enough that putting a label on the jar really doesn't bother me. Won't change what is inside.

So, yeah. I might have to get one of those taglines that explain the shape of everything ;) Eh, maybe not yet.

Aaaah. Yeah. Ella's cute. We're gonna be penpals

[fuchka]

One thing I forgot to mention was a quite revelatory moment during the discussion of whether Carob should or should not move over to be in the same city as me.

How we were approaching it seemed to be to try to figure out the Best Decision given all the things we knew, pros, cons, etc. And if that failed, trying to access some kind of 'gut instinct' about it. But, really, there was no clear winner. Both options had so many complicating factors that it made it very hard to nut through with thinking.

And when Carob thought about what he felt he ought to do, apart from everything else, he'd vascillate between the two options. "I should move," he'd say one day. Then "I should stay", the next. During this time it was really hard on me emotionally, dealing with him being in a new relationship but also long-distance and missing him.

One night as we were discussing this issue "for the umpteenth time" (as my ma would say), he let slip: "I told Ella I was going to stay."

I'm sorry, what?

That really bit me, like... here we are trying to figure it out, and as far as Ella knows he's already made up his mind to stay. It hurt that he would tell her that straight out, on the one hand, and still be discussing with me like it was an open issue, on the other.

Quite apart from that, though, I felt it was a done deal. I mean, you can't tell someone something like that and just take it back. Well, you can, but it hurts.

So I said: "Well, if you've already told Ella that, then we shouldn't talk about this like it's an open issue. Just treat it like you've made a decision."

And that's when it struck me... Buridan's ass (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buridan%27s_ass). When I first heard about that concept, my reaction was - yeah, well, that's all fine but really? If you get hungry enough you eat whatever hay. I felt superior to Buridan's ass. Not only is that donkey an impossible donkey, it had no relevance to my life. I'd never do that. Or would I?

We had been avoiding making a decision because we couldn't analyse which way was the 'best' way.

My thoughts, after we almost arbitrarily decided that Carob should stay with Ella, was: "making a decision was a good thing, rather than needing to make a good decision per se." It felt better having had decided. I felt the stress falling away.

If we had battled on through with the decision-making process, we could have had an on-again off-again kind of headspace which would eventually wear us down to (perhaps) breaking. Had been feeling fairly worn-down by the process already.

Now, things are good. Well - I know where we're at. Not looking forward to more LDR, but them's the breaks.

For a while now (mostly for very minor decisions, like, should I go out even though I feel sick or should I get some sleep) I've been using a method to randomly make a decision when I feel stuck in the middle. I flip a coin, and then go with it. Unless I feel disappointed in the outcome, in which case I do the opposite. This works really well as long as you have the rule to only flip the coin once.

My theory is that if you are sad that the coin went a certain way, then you have some kind of preference for the other one (and possibly a preferene that gives the other option an edge, though maybe not)

Anyway, that arbitrary decision-making device has assisted me in those everyday "argh I'm not good an making decisions" moments. Never thought it would be any good for larger things, esp huge life decisions like where to live, but yeah. It seemed to work.

As long as you've tried to figure it out yourself and got nowhere, I guess... Sometimes the indecision makes you less able to make a decision (like a hungry donkey) so something external forcing your hand can break you through. And you realise - well - these relationships transcend space and you would have made it work whatever wherever, surely. Surely. Right? :)

[fuchka]

I've been getting waves of nausea re: dynamics between Carob, Ella and myself... This has happened a few times before now and it's happening again. I thought it would have abated since we spent time the three of us, but it's back and it's the same feeling.

Have tried to write it out but it comes out really strange. The only thought that makes me feel better (when I feel like this) is breaking up with C. Letting him go his own way.

He doesn't want that, he wants to stay together. We've got a good thing going on.

I don't know where this feeling is coming from. My best guess is it's related to my fear of being inadequate when compared with Ella. Him wanting her more, him wanting me less... Some kind of shifting power (?) balance. I don't talk on these terms, but maybe I feel on these terms.

Is it the case that I can't handle my loss of influence over Carob and I'm packing a sad? Like, I'd rather quit than have to compromise? That's pretty awful if so. I would like not to be that person.

But in a sense, I think I am. I feel more comfortable not playing the game at all, and keeping myself whole, rather than taking a risk of being vulnerable.

Resigning early just in case I lose.

Thing is, I don't really think Carob will drop me. So what gives?

It's gross and long-distance and messy and I can't handle it. Maybe that's all it is. I just don't have the stomach for dealing with the crazy waves of emotions this churns up, right now. I need a break. I want a break. And I'm not sure how to get it.

This is how I feel, when I'm in this state of nausea. Then it passes, sometimes because Carob and I get to chat and I feel close, and safe, but... I dunno. I don't know if either of us have the energy to give our relationship what I need from it right now. I wish this wasn't the case, but I fear it is.

(Just chatted with Carob on Skype. Shared some of these thoughts with him. Was good to get it out. Gonna talk more over the weekend)

[fuchka]

Got the chance to Skype with Carob yesterday. Was really good to talk things out. It's only recently we've started using Skype and it's so much better than text chat. I definitely feel the distance less when I can see his face.

Taking a break was a dumb idea - not only is it fairly meaningless (neither of us could quite imagine what a break would entail, really), it's also far less preferable to dealing with things now. I guess I was feeling overwhelmed with the prospect of teasing out emotions long-distance. Things being so much better in person (did I mention how much I love cuddle chats?). But, really, Skype isn't so bad. Feeling much better having talked with him.

I've been quite sick since Sunday, feeling gross and drained, which isn't helping my mood.

I don't like feeling needy, and I reckon I'm gonna need a bit of patience and conversation to deal with rough patches of emotions. My instinct is to run and cocoon and deal with myself by myself rather than work things through together. I'm not suggesting this is a good idea, but it's what I feel drawn towards. I'm okay, by myself. I don't feel bad, I am self-sufficient.

Carob said "isn't being vulnerable the whole point of relationships" and yeah, exactly, he's right. I just wish you didn't have to be vulnerable the whole time, ah, man, can't we take a break? It's been full-on... moving cities, coping with bouts of depression, and also a new relationship dynamic... but it's okay. It's good. We can do this.

I remember reading a warning somewhere about things not necessarily being simpler in a triangle rather than a V. I'm feeling that at the moment. When I was feeling really low the other day, I had a brief chat with C (but didn't really express myself well. More like flagged to talk about it later). That made him sad, and he ended up talking with Ella about it. She obviously became confused about how I was feeling, and I felt weird having this rough second-hand version of myself being conveyed to someone else and not knowing how to rewind it or explain it. It gets murky really quickly.

I sent her an e-mail and I think (surprise surprise) all will be much easier with communication. Thought the e-mail exchange was an interesting illustration though. Here are excerpts relating to the above.

It feels a bit like image management (?) but it's not really that. It's like... wanting to communicate well and truthfully and also keep a hold on yourself in a kinda gooey system that you can get lost in :)

Me to Ella:

Heya heya,

Not sure what impression you got from Carob about how I was feeling yesterday. I was in a quite awful emotional space (not helped by still feeling sick) and I had a brief chat w/ C but we needed to talk more. We had a good chat today and feeling much better now :)

I didn't really express myself well to him yesterday, so I feel a bit weird about this poorly sketched out version of my mood kinda getting passed on to you second hand, I dunno. Like I'm being cast into a version of myself that's out of my reach. I guess keeping in touch with you and chatting when we both have the time would help me not feel self-conscious about things like this ...

Arriving and leaving always makes me a bit unbalanced, disoriented... bear with me.

Her reply confirmed my hunch that she was a bit confused by where things stood:

I guess you know how Carob is when he is sad - all heavy sighs and not too subtle. So he kind of has to talk about what's making him feel bad. I feel like things are okay when I see you or talk to you, but when C talks about you I am confused and worry I don't know how you really feel - for instance, you seemed chipper when we talked online on weds, but when you talked to C you were clearly not. I guess this is context and things, how much you can lean on the person you're talking to. But it feels like you might put on a brave face to spare my feelings, or that Carob loves to be pessimistic. I dunno. Bit of both? He was really down on Wednesday anyway. It's not easy eh. Talking's always good though.

I wrote back:

I don't put a brave face on for you, I guess I was worried you would feel that.

I just happened to have a really low point the other night and it was something I wanted to talk w/ Carob about. I don't mind unpacking things with you either, I'm not really into holding things back.

It's all good, eh. This is my real face.

Chat sometime when it suits both of us :)

Oh and yeah, it's pretty un-possible to stop moods from flowing through everyone's dominoes... I'd like to keep communication open enough between us that things are less likely to get lost in translation.

-

When I first started this blog I thought it would be cool to lure Carob and/or Sugar into blogging here too.

I've found it a really good space to vent and tap out thoughts. It may be strange for them to read what I've written so far, and also it may feel different if I know they are reading too. I'm impressed with how people here like Mya and rory use their shared blog. Will have a think about it.

On another note, I linked one of my friends to a blogpost here, and she replied asking whether I keep a blog here too :p That made me really shy and I haven't written back to her yet! I guess I should. Heh. Here's to transparency. May it be kind to me like the most flattering nightgowns.

[rory]

Skype is the best. With regular video calls, I hardly mind the distance between me and Mya. I mean, I would love to have more regular physical connection, definitely, but with the skyping I feel us being in a relationship and connected even when apart. I don't think things would work without that, since we've been in LDR from the beginning.

Thumbs up for the communication. I'm sure taking a break would have solved very little, so it's probably better to keep feeling it and processing it as long as you can. I am similar to you in that when I'm down I'm drawn to being alone. And I do need some of that, but if I go fully with that instinct, it actually becomes counter-productive. I.e., I start to feel worse and worse. That's why I need to, at some point, find the strength to reconnect (not just to my partners but to other people as well).

It's definitely an adjustment to write something you know your partner reads, too. I need to express myself by writing so it's really important to me to not be too restricted in what or how I write. I feel it takes strength sometimes to put something out there, which you suspect will be emotional for your partner to read. Sometimes we've agreed that we'll hold posting for a bit so that we can skype right away after reading about something. With some topics it is emotional, or it feels like there may easily be misunderstandings. I think the most important thing for me is that me and Mya communicate in very similar ways, so misunderstandings are rare. If they were to happen more often, I don't think it would work for me to journal at the same place.

[fuchka]

Yeah, Skype rules. Just had a sweet chat with Carob about a bunch of things, including possibly blogging here together. Also we're getting better at sexing over video, it's pretty excellent actually. Mm. Yes. :D

Re: shared blog - He brought up some good points about it likely changing the dynamics of the blog, and also being unsure if he wanted to read the inner workings of things from my perspective. Like, maybe this is good for my own processing, and I can simply share with him on a case-by-case basis. (I told him I already do this actually... there've been a few times I've nutted things out here, and fed that back into our discussions.)

Carob also suggested, if we do blog together, it could be better if I kept this one for me, and we start something different the two of us. That was a really good idea, and one I'd quite enjoy I reckon. I said he should think about whether he feels like putting the time in, and get back to me. Cool :)

I'd love to read what Sugar would write on things too (as well as others we are / have been involved with of course) but I doubt he'd be keen on the time investment. I get the impression that he's already having to put in more effort than he'd like for poly things. He's not really interested in getting into a new relationship himself (because of the time/energy that would involve) so, yeah. But I will ask. Might be interesting if we can create a space that he and/or Ella or anyone else we're involved with could chip in. Haha, yeah, maybe I'm dreaming... but it's nice to dream a little.

On a low note, Sugar's been feeling down since yesterday. Er, well, I'm pretty sure I triggered it. We were both sitting around on Saturday afternoon after doing marketing and laundry, minding our own affairs. Things were fine, chillaxed. Then he said he was thinking of having a smoke (some sort of legal marijuana substitute), relaxing and doing some painting, and this (for some reason) made me feel like pouncing him. So all of a sudden I drag him to bed and proposition him, like: c'mon baby do me before you get into painting.

This was quite out of the blue and he was a bit taken aback. He said "where did that come from?" And for some reason, this released a bag of bad vibes...

I didn't really know where my reaction had come from. My first guess, though, made things roll sideways pretty quickly.

"I dunno, I just wanted to get in there before you get involved with other things."

"What do you mean?"

"Like, after you have a smoke, you usually want to hang by yourself."

"But we just spent two hours side by side doing our own thing."

"Oh man, were you feeling weird about that? Did you want to be doing things together?"

"No, I was fine with it, and I thought you were too."

"I was, ah, I don't know, I don't even know whether this is why I suddenly felt like jumping you. It wasn't rational."

"Okay."

That was the tone of our conversation. We hobbled through it and went our own ways after that, only Sugar now felt down. Fuck I hate depression, I'm really bad at handling it. I know my own moods, I know (mostly) what I need to do to manage myself... but someone else's moods? S being down triggers me, especially in a case like this where I feel I was the cause of him feeling bad.

He needs space to sort his own head out, and yup - I can give him that. (He's off walking by himself right now) Just I don't know what to do with my own reaction, wanting to reach out and hold him, wanting to apologise for all manner of things, from recent things I'm sorry for, to fucking up everything in general (yeah, it's all out of proportion at this stage). I feel like an awful partner. He feels awful for making me feel awful. Yeah, it's bad.

I end up doing things like making sure he's warm, making him food, giving him massages if he'd like that. (Gave him a foot massage before he headed off, which was nice) But I also need to care for my own head, so we don't spiral.

One good thing this time, though, is he told me he was feeling sad. Some occasions he pretends he isn't feeling sad (when he obviously is.) He says "I'm okay, I'm just tired." I take him at face value, but then can't comprehend how he's behaving towards me. Later, he generally admits "yeah I was feeling depressed. But I didn't want to tell you otherwise it would make you upset too." Argh! Yeah, he's right, it does also make me upset (obviously) but I need him to tell me the truth. I dunno, lying hurts and confuses me. I don't ever want to have to read between the lines.

So, this time, I stress how grateful I was that he was upfront about feeling down. Even though he wanted to avoid upsetting me. Yeah, small steps forward.

As for me, I think I'd like to work through my own guilt towards Sugar. As I said there are a whole range of things which I feel bad about, that get dredged up when he feels sad. I know it's not really my fault he's upset, but y'know? It's really hard to feel ok as a partner, when the person you wanna be the sunshine for is seeing nothing but rain.

I really fucking struggle with these moments. I haven't had enough experience with depression (personally or dealing with partner's depression) to be the right kind of supportive, I think. But I'm doing my best.

One thing I would like to do is to pay some close attention to the various things I feel sorry for re: Sugar, maybe compile a litany of guilts :p I think it will feel better to name the shadows, at least as a first step towards dispelling them.

Also, make sure I'm there and willing to put in time for him. We probably need some more agreed-upon dates. I dunno, right now I feel like I've churned from one whirlpool into another. (Need some respite) But I guess that's how this system works, we gotta adjust and adjust til the dynamics are right.

Sugar and I've been working at sex between us. As I mentioned at the start of this blog, that aspect of our relationship went from pretty fucking hot and hard-out to - well - fairly non-existent these days. Well, the energy has dissipated into different things, different ways of being together. We are quite content and familiar and on some level don't really mind that we're not fucking as often or as intensely as we used to. But gah, I miss it. I miss it in an absolute sense, and I also miss the confidence it gave me in our relationship. I feel we're missing a piece at the moment. The machine still runs alright, but there's that nut loose... threatening to fly off...

Talking with Sugar about how much I miss sex kinda fucks shit up. There's too much guilt there. And I have to admit, I'm okay about waiting for sex until he feels more in the mood. (As long as it's not forever... ? ? Hehe. Dammit, maybe even then! Therein lies the issue, I guess)

We've had moments of amazing tenderness and openness about the topic, but it's hard.

At my darkest points I wonder - what if this poly stuff has made things irrevocably worse between us sexually? Even if I knew for sure it was poly that was the problem (i.e. all that would 'fix' Sugar's & my sexual relationship would be for me to be with him and him alone), would that mean I was willing to change to being monogamous? (That would hurt like fuck, now, I don't think that is really an option for me... But god, should it be?)

We confronted this issue recently in conversation. Sugar said that it's possible (as much as anything is possible) that he'd feel like having sex with me more if he knew I wasn't able to get it anywhere else. Some people in monogamous relationships claim that being monogamous helps keep the sex alive for them, or something. But yeah, this is all hypothetical and it's really not where we're at (to experiment with this.) As above, it's kind of a non-option for us. So thankfully, we can only conjecture... I suppose it's a blessing that we can't know for sure if this would help, anyway.

Some ideas we've come up with to crank the fire have been: to try our best to be open to sex, to make an effort to touch heaps (sexually or not), to write / share erotic fiction (something we've done more in the past), and - recently - spanking.

Mm.

Well, I stumbled upon this on-line discussion between wives who had asked their husbands to spank them regularly and, fuck, to be honest it was a huge turn-on. Sugar and I play about with the husband/wife dynamic in a jokey way often, and this seemed perfect. Seems like some people get spanked a set amount every day/week/whatever regardless of any particular reasons or transgressions.

It's twisted but it pushed my buttons. We definitely do not have the Man-Wears-The-Pants arrangement in our relationship, well... eh. If you don't understand what consensual mindfuck is, you won't get this :) But anyway, I brought this fantasy up with Sugar, and asked him "Do you think it would help if you spanked me regularly?"

He said "yeah, it probably would."

Wet. Hot.

So, yeah. Definitely hitting him up about that (no pun intended) In fact, I have scored a spanking date for tonight. As far as I can tell he's still up for it, once he's had his time out this evening. Yay. If I manage to write out the things I feel guilty about, beforehand, I might send it to him as potential discussion points for when he spanks me ;)

Ah man, feeling sorry for our neighbours right now. But not that sorry. No, not really that sorry at all.

In other news, local poly group social on tonight. I may go. Absolutely saturated on the relationship front - no hook-ups, please! - but probably could use a poly-friendly environment to hang in. We'll see.

[nycindie]

My instinct is to run and cocoon and deal with myself by myself rather than work things through together. I'm not suggesting this is a good idea, but it's what I feel drawn towards. I'm okay, by myself. I don't feel bad, I am self-sufficient.

Carob said "isn't being vulnerable the whole point of relationships" and yeah, exactly, he's right. I just wish you didn't have to be vulnerable the whole time, ah, man, can't we take a break? It's been full-on... moving cities, coping with bouts of depression, and also a new relationship dynamic... I don't think being vulnerable is the point of being in relationship, but I do feel that good relationships allow space for us to feel vulnerable... or strong.. or witty... or depressed... and whatever else we feel. But if we need space and time to be alone, and in a cocoon for a while, we should be able to have that too.

Always being pressed to process stuff can be taxing and isn't appropriate for everyone, all the time. If you need time to yourself, take it, but make positive use of it. Though it may be tempting just to pull the covers up and cry, and doing so may give you a cathartic release, also (or instead) get out or go do something that makes you feel renewed and refreshed, even if it's a stroll through the park or ten minutes of window-shopping (bubble baths have been known to work wonders for me!).

Just because the people we're close to want All Togetherness All The Time doesn't mean we are wrong to want some time apart to unhinge and collect ourselves. They have to make an effort to understand that talking time for yourself is not an affront to anyone else, but something necessary, that satisfies your personality.

[fuchka]

Yep, nycindie, you're quite right.

In this particular case, it was more complicated then "I just need a processing break" (in the end) It was also - "I don't think we can do the processing that we need to do long-distance." "I don't want to be a drag on you" etc. But turns out it wasn't so bad. Skype is way way better than text chat, shoulda tried this long ago.

But yes, I hear you. Definitely need to take space I need. Bubble baths are good! I recently had a bath bath, like someone drew an old-fashioned bath for me - wow. My cousin who lives nearby has a bath at her place, will hit her up for that sometime.

re: vulnerability, I guess what we actually agreed was that it's part and parcel of what's good about relationships rather than the primary purpose. "The whole point" was a tad hyperbolic, I admit :p

Just planning a trip away by myself travelling for a month later this year - a couple of weeks with a friend in the US and then hopefully hopefully sailing for 2 1/2 weeks with another friend and his dad! So yup, most certainly getting the time off for me that I need :) You bring up some good, challenging thoughts nycindie; I enjoy the way you counter-point

[fuchka]

Floated idea of blogging together with Sugar, he's open to it in theory (yay!) but he said to talk more when we know more details about what we were thinking (Carob and I). He also said it could give him an idea of what I meant if I sent him the link to my current blog (this one). Haha. Ah. Ah. I didn't really think this through did I.

I reckon our communication in general is pretty good (both with S & C) and they understand context enough (this being a private kinda ranty blog, albeit on a public forum!) that we could work through any concerns arising from them reading my personal posts. I wouldn't want to have to censor myself; I enjoy being able to write fairly freely here.

Will have a think about it. Maybe let them have a read of what I've written so far. And maybe have some kind of deal that if it's getting messy for whatever reason, I can ask them to stop reading for a while (if that would work). We'll see.

Poly social thing was cool. Met a few people again that I'd connected with briefly last time I went along to something run by this group. There were a couple of people I really clicked with, but aha... no time for that :) Well, maybe with N... sometime later... if she liked me too... Well, she was quite quite nice and we jived. But left without exchanging details and that felt right, so have set that paper boat sailing for now.

Re: spanking, heh. First night Sugar was so enthusiastic that I got too freaked to let him. Next time I actually was too sleepy and had a headache (I swear). But we stole a quickie between appointments yesterday and it was really nice :) A good way to reconnect.

In other news, Carob and I are getting really good at the videosexin. Sweeeeet. And, a sideways cute thing: Skyping with C yesterday, and he looked beaming. I asked him - what are you so happy about? He said "I'm feeling hopeful about the future". "Aww," I said, kind of assuming it was something relationship-related, "what in particular is making you so hopeful?"

It was the $25 Linux computer (http://www.raspberrypi.org/faqs) :)

Gotta admit, that made me pretty hopeful about the future too :p But, yeah. Just a funny moment.

[fuchka]

After an uncharacteristically early dinner with Sugar yesterday, we went for a walk through the park to a nearby suburb. Seems like it's been ages since we rolled about the streets at night, checking out new places in our neighbourhood. Ended up at a cosy pub, I had the local bitter (a truly awful beer) and he had something fancy in a bottle from a microbrewery. Cuddled on a couch and talked for a couple of hours. I had a snooze on the tram on the way home, then we shared an overpriced convenience store donut.

I love him so much. He is good to me and good for me. We chatted a bit about dynamics between friends and lovers - there's quite a lot going on on that front at the moment. Thinking about how to best explain the various threads on my blog, I decided to make a chart :)

http://www.polyamory.com/forum/picture.php?albumid=373&pictureid=1814

There are more stories I've left out, involving even more other people, but I'll start with these for now *grin*

The one that's top of the charts is my smouldering crush on Patch. He's an ex-lover of a dear friend of mine Ayla (who, as a separate thing, has told me she's attracted to me... mm, we've hooked up a few times, just kissing and such, but the last time was a bit of a disaster as unbeknownst to me, she had broken the rules of her relationship with her (now) ex so us making out was cheating. She has an on-again off-again thing with him still so I've been keeping my body and heart away from that. I love her dearly but really don't like being part of any dramadramas. However... she's coming over for a visit later this month and staying here so... ah... yeah.)

Anyway, back to Patch :)

I knew him through Ayla when they were dating for years way back when. Their breakup was hard (actually iirc it involved opening up their relationship, Ayla getting together with someone else, and Patch not coping well with that.) Anyway, really messy at the end. She still refers to him as the love of her life.

So... I was chatting casually with Carob a couple of months ago about Patch cos he's now living in the same city as I am. We've had the chance to catch up a few times one-on-one which we'd not really done before. He's a deep soul, I really like the person he is. We've had conversations like, yeah. I'm quite attracted.

Anyway, I mentioned this to Carob casualy, and he said - hey, that would weird me out. I was surprised by this, as I actually knew Patch before I met C, although P and C have been friends for years and years before that (separately). It wasn't like I had a gut guess that C wouldn't be comfortable. I hadn't really considered this dynamic at all.

My reaction was - really? How come? And he felt like I was making light of his reaction. As if he needed an explanation for me to take his emotion seriously.

But I didn't feel like instantly giving him the response he probably wanted, which was "oh okay, in that case I won't go there."

We don't have many boundaries (in fact, none really comes to mind apart from safer sex) so we haven't had much experience negotiating them.

C's reaction to me talking about hooking up with Patch made me consider what Ayla would think about that. It's been a few years since they were together, and she's been with other people since then, but still.

So recently I chatted with her about this too, and she said "sorry, yeah, that would be weird for me." She didn't ask me to promise anything, and I didn't... but it was good to know her feelings. Take them into account. We both like the idea of seizing opportunities and going with the flow of things but, yeah. This is tender skin still.

I mentioned to Carob: you don't have to worry anymore. I'm going to avoid things with Patch cos Ayla would find that awkward right now. And C says - well, now. She gets to have a veto and I don't? (This was his kick-in-the-guts reaction to it. C is really expressive with his emotions, and when he feels hurt he just spits out sentences like they're his teeth that you've just punched out)

So we talk some more, and I admit that I didn't give enough respect to his feeling about it. I was curious as to where it was coming from, and it's a boundary that I would like to be open to shifting... but still we needed to start at a place of respect.

I've said I won't kindle things with Patch until and unless Carob's okay with that. And Carob's agreed to unpick this with me at some point. There's no hurry... Gonna keep things solidly platonic at least until Ayla visits.

Patch hurt his shoulder badly recently and I gave him a lengthy back massage. He takes massage really well, it was fun. Apparently he gives a good massage too. I usually don't get massages so, mm. What I was really thinking though is whether we could tempt Ayla with a double massage *grin*

So that's that part of the crazy star chart of friends & lovers! Just heard from S that he's on the way home so I'll have to figure how quickly I can cook dinner. Whoops, making that diagram took longer than I thought.

[fuchka]

So the other night was out with friends, Loki and T. This guy J was there who I'd met once before and kinda liked, we connected. Loki is an old friend of mine, she's really cool and chilled. Sugar used to have wee crush on her, but when he mentioned it to her she said she wasn't sure what T would think about that (she and T are dating, and not sure where they're at re: monogamy).

That said, Loki and I made out this one time (I actually took ages to tell S about this because I didn't want him to feel like... peeved/jealous?) but afterwards she said she'd have to talk to T more about it. Seems they've talked a bit because when we were out this time she said that sometime when we weren't out drinking maybe we could get together in a body tumble sorta thing. The three of us hung out at the back of the bar for a bit and cuddled and kissed, mm. I told T I didn't want to make complications in their relationship and he said: nah, this is very good and enabling. I love them both, they are lovely people... so yeah. Happy that we might be able to moosh bodies sometime, if the moment feels right.

Anyway, back to J. I didn't mean this to happen but ended up going home with him and staying the nght. I don't usually have really vanilla sex for long but that's more or less what happened all night & morning. Was surprisingly good. Not too much conversation, but we were on the same vibe. He's a nice guy, haven't talked to him since but yeah. Cosy, loving, fun encounter. At one point he said "you know I'm not really looking for a relationship" and I said "haha, I definitely am not".

When I told S about it, he said "oh yeah, J, the guy who looks like Carob. And Gilby" Awww man, he was right. Damn.

Carob was a bit :/ to hear about it. The distance and missing and mm, yeah. Gotta make plans to see each other again soon.

Made me feel like I really want to focus on the relationships I have, feed them well. I guess we all have this capacity for making new connections... I am quite an open person and I like showing love and care to other people. But I'm feeling a bit homesick for the familiar folk, my family and friends. Maybe being away from my hometown. It's not that I think they're necessarily better than other people, it's more like... we've got deep roots and an easier ability to nourish each other.

Took this mood with me to a dinner yesterday with this chick I met on the tram. She's new to the city too, pretty friendly, uke-toting. We hung out and played a bit of music together then we went to her friends' place. It was a fun party, apart from... ah. So turns out this girl wanted to have sex with me, and her friends were up for some kind of group sex. I dunno, they were perfectly nice people and we had fun talking. I may have been more attracted to her friends, but I guess I was also feeling a bit... just wanting cuddles from Carob, Sugar, other friends. Was odd, cos I don't usually feel this strong preference for people I know vs strangers when it comes to hanging out but yeah... I guess I'm feeling a bit branch-heavy; must tend to the roots.

Seemed a bit rude sloping off after being shown much hospitality but it felt really nice to get home and crawl into bed with S. Are my adventuring days over? :p Ha, unlikely. But yeah, it's good to like what you have and have what you like.

[fuchka]

Ah, money woes. Carob hates his job, has done for all the time I've known him. It just makes ends meet for him, he can't really save on it.

One thing I forgot when moving here to be with S (and taking time off my job back home) was what this would mean about me being able to support Carob financially. I'm totally out of currency in my home country, like, bottom of the barrel skint. So when C is stressing about money I can't spot him any cash to tide him over.

And also.. not sure when we'll next get to see each other. I'm already borrowing some cash off Sugar to travel in Aug & Sept (road trip with a friend through the States! then sailing back from Vanuatu to my home city! So will see C then at least, but... I would love to make it before that)

Currently scraping together a bit of cash with flexible work but my personal focus at the moment is to advance various creative projects of mine. I don't usually get as much freedom to do this as I have at the moment and it's very good. I kind of want to make the most of it.

Been helping C with his CV. His current plan is to find better work in our home city... hope he manages to do that. But if not, I'm going to suggest he look for work here. S & I may be based here til April next year, or (who knows) maybe longer. Don't expect to be but it's really hard to tell how things will unfold.

Haven't had much chance to chat with Ella. Skype'd once last week and chatted on the weekend. Talked with her a wee bit today, but then she said "I heard from C that you're coming here before your trip?" (That's not our current plan; it's C's turn to visit this time and I'm hoping he'll come here cos I'd rather stay here til I leave rather than detour before my travels. Our fall-back plan is that I try visit him on the way overseas)

This was a bit triggering for me, I felt like he'd decided he wasn't going to come see me and hadn't told me about it. I guess I'm more sensitive about these things from a distance. Nigh impossible to get the dynamics between the three of us (Carob, Ella and I) feeling good without physically being there in person.

Luckily I was chatting with Carob soon afterwards and I brought this up. He said "bub, I want to visit but I just don't know if I can afford it". He's really stressed and upset about money things right now, poor dude. Yeah, wish I could help him more. This is something I'd love to work on for the future. Sugar & I have a good thing going on, we share finances and have really similar goals and values in terms of communal living and earning. Not sure how into all that C feels... in a fairly informal way we have supported each other but it hasn't been fully intertwined yet the way it is with S and me.

In other news, Sugar and I going to local poly group discussion thing tomorrow. Looking forward to it.

[fuchka]

Ok, just booked tickets to see Carob (and Ella, briefly) end July, before I go to the States. Ella's heading away for a month round then so will catch her for a couple of days only. Hopefully will get out of town with Carob for a bit of it. In a couple of weeks will be three years since C & I got together. Will be nice to celebrate with a trip out of the city somewhere.

Last year for our anniversary we stayed in this hut and watched the LoTR trilogy by the fireplace. (Carob is really awesome with making fire, mm, one of his passions it seems) At that time we dreamt of coming back again and maybe watching some other epic marathon, like Harry Potter. I haven't seen any of the movies and only read one book so will be cool if we manage it.

Anyway, happy there's a date to look forward to. Mm, countdowns :)

[rory]

Money woes, same here (still)... Can make a person very tired.


But it's good you are able to visit! :) And you have totally the right ideas about spending time, with movies and closeness.

[fuchka]

Money woes, same here (still)... Can make a person very tired.

Yup, definitely, and also other things are harder to talk about. When you're under or on that financial baseline it's not much fun.

But it's good you are able to visit! :)

Yeah, I asked S if he didn't mind if I detoured... was just a bit extra for flights. He seemed surprised it would even be an issue. I feel strangely awkward about things like this, not earning at the moment, and getting S to pay for me to see Carob. Maybe it's a hangover of feeling like this second relationship is something I should feel guilty about.

On the other hand, if I hadn't moved here to keep S company I wouldn't have this issue so :) I guess it all works out.

And it's not like I'm taking him for granted. In fact I feel so so deeply grateful. Definitely not keen to erode one healthy relationship for the sake of another, but this feels right, nourishing both ways.

Thanks for your comments rory. Funny how you all are going through similar stresses! It's nice to feel connected even from the other side of the world.

[Hehe, I just realised I've been disinclined to use Sugar for S recently, talking about money things. A couple of people have been teasing me about him being my sugardaddy! Mm. I started off with Sage which I like but it's also the nick of another person on this forum. So I'm gonna go with Sago from now. Hope it's not too confusing. Or at least, no more so than usual :) Ha]

[rory]

Thanks for your comments rory. Funny how you all are going through similar stresses! It's nice to feel connected even from the other side of the world.

True! :) Hugs to you.

[fuchka]

Poly group meet-up yesterday was cool. Interesting, diverse bunch as usual and I was really happy to have Sago there with me. His first time at a local poly thing here (my third) and he seemed to like it. The discussion was more political than usual, some debate over the same-sex marriage lobby and how that relates to poly, whether it's problematic that the argument is often advanced in a way that appeals to mainstream (i.e. we're the good, monogamous kind of gay), whether people feel like poly-activism directly (banner waving) or just simply living out their lives, whether in fact it's more important to keep a low profile legally rather than draw attention to poly (i.e. keep the law off your back, esp with family law matters).

First half is whole group discussion and then you break into small groups for more personal questions. I raised a thought I've been having recently - how I relate to Ella. I like her, I care about her, loved our sex, conversation... Yeah this is a relationship I'm glad I'm in and it would be cool to get to know her more.

But but but I still think of her as Carob's girlfriend primarily. He's still figuring out how he feels about her, and they're finding their feet together. I don't really want to get in the way of that, in particular making things messy if I'm into it and Carob isn't. I'd rather leave space enough for them to go either way.

This means an uncharacteristic kind of caution for me, and I have wondered if I'm doing right by Ella, simply picking the safer path. Whether I should dive in and - fuck it - see how it goes. However, I feel there's a possible train wreckage that way. I'd like to be able to care for her no matter what happens between her and Carob. And likewise care for Carob. This requires a bit of distance...

Luckily, I got oodles of physical distance :) I've been keeping things low-key with Ella, regulating my emotions, taking it easy... It's felt right. Guess risky is not always the smart option.

Someone else in my small group shared a similar experience, where she'd gone all in. Apparently train wreck did ensue, badness between the guy and the other girl, she and he stayed together and the third person broke up with both of them. Not that break ups are always a failure but I'd rather give relationships the best chance possible to grow into what they could be, I mean, that's the point of seeding them in the first place ne?

Next post I'm gonna have to deal to some of those stories in that over-the-top chart I made :p Whoops.

[fuchka]

Time for another friends/lovers story from the admittedly excessive chart I included in my blog here (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/showpost.php?p=138333&postcount=49) :)

Drew is a friend of Carob's and mine. Actually I met Drew first, over a decade ago, at a party at a mutual friend's place. I didn't know at the time that C was another flatmate. He was at the party too... Yet another missed connection with him. Guess living in a small-ish city with relatively intertwined circles, you pass people a lot just beyond your peripheries before you meet them properly.

A funny moment with Drew soon after Sago and I got together. The three of us (Drew, Sago and me) were sitting outside a pub drinking a beer together, and Drew said "so what, are you two boyfriend and girlfriend now?" At the same time, S said "yes" and I said "no"... hehe... Then we said "ah, I guess we need to talk about this". Hilarious.

When Drew found out that Carob and I had hooked up, he was (and actually still is, I think) against it. He is still friends and doesn't really voice his opinion unless you ask him (which is probably why we can still socialise alright with him) but at various times (mostly to C) he's said things like Sago and I having a "sham marriage", that we're fooling ourselves, that this can't actually be right. He's fine with us doing whatever with our lives, but he sees us waking up to reality at some point and admitting that he was right.

Well, Drew is married to Olive who I've since gotten to know more and am friends with. Apparently Olive found out that D had cheated on her with another friend's (Antonin's) ex-girlfriend. So... they made this deal giving Olive five 'free passes' (considering Drew cheated five times) with someone else. And to add to the perfect symmetry (I find this all quite twisted by the way), Drew suggested that Olive have sex with Antonin.

We-ell... this all happened, however Olive committed the cardinal sin of writing flirty e-mails with Antonin while she co-ordinated her five free fucks. Drew found out, and felt like O had cheated on him by getting emotionally invested rather than just having sex.

Olive's told me that while she and Antonin were doing their thing, she really enjoyed her relationship with Drew. She would like if things could have continued, but she really doesn't see this as possible since Drew is very monogamous in outlook.

Meanwhile, Drew is really pissed off with Antonin to the point that we can't invite them both to the same social occasion. He's on the brink of Olive breaking up with him (oh they have a kid too, a real cutie!) because he is unwilling to entertain the possibility that their relationship may work out healthier (and be actually possible / sustainable) if he was open to O being with other people.

All this is fine (well, relationships may have to end over it, but it's all fair enough) apart from... Drew is not really the monogamous type in the way he behaves. He tried to hook up with me when he and Olive had just got together. O knows he rolls like this and she understands him... well... ah, who knows. The point of this tale is not to speculate about their lives :)

It was more that - this shit is tangly! And it's bizarre watching it unfold given Drew's long-standing objection to Sago, Carob and me being a viable way to grow a relationship.

It's hard to know how to be good friends to them all at the moment, i.e. how to be supportive of people when what each of them wants may not be compatible with the other. Just trying to be especially caring at the moment, a sounding board if need be. Not taking sides, keeping communication open etc etc.

Another point - Olive has made out with me a few times at parties and such - recently she told me that Drew wouldn't be happy about it (?!) Ah man, I wish people wouldn't do things that are breaking the rules with their partners. At least not do them with me. Maybe I should be more vigilant about this. (I actually have started to be after a few unintentionally bad experiences with friends. Whoops)

Well enough of that Saga. One more tale and we've made it through the whole chart. Yay :p

[fuchka]

Went out to a house party last night with S, was fun. Almost 100% people I didn't know. Enjoyed socialising. Was a place with a decent backyard and I spent a bit of time by myself gazing at the stars.

A childhood friend of Sago's is in town, so S went out with him today while I kept to myself. A few domestic tasks, working away at some things I'm making, read AnnabelMoore's amazing fanfic ;) and Skyped briefly with Carob. He's in the zone with his own projects at the moment, so didn't have time to chat for very long. Turned down videosexing! Woah. So no relief there, ah well. Luckily I can tend to my own needs. When C is really into what he's working on, he gets a bit single-minded. Sago is like that too. At the poly thing we went to, I joked to someone that S's primary relationship is with his research interests!

I guess I'm not too different. Keep myself busy on things I value. Of course I value relationships but when I'm on the scent of something good, I like not being distracted from my task.

(This includes during sex, hehe. Apparently I'm savage! So says Carob, Ella... and a few ex-lovers concurred. Sago didn't get what they meant, but then again neither did I really so that makes two of us. Something to do with knowing what I want and being upfront about it (says an ex). Interesting. In response, I was going to say "it's not like I'm going to eat you" but that's not entirely true...)

[fuchka]

Just censored this blog for the first time. I'd written something rough to summarise something Carob told me about how he was feeling. Something like: "C and Ella a bit so-so. He said he's been resenting spending time with her. I suggested it's maybe because when he is really into what he's working on, he gets a bit single-minded."

At the time when I wrote this (in previous post) I wasn't quite sure if I should put it that way, given it's about C & Ella's relationship and pretty flippantly phrased. But I thought - I've got the basic gist of things across, don't want to spend ages rephrasing my personal blog. It's good enough, post it, move on.

Then recently Ella replied to my e-mail to her, linking to the aforementioned fanfic. I had told her it was written by a person whose blog I follow. So she asked for the link to the blog. Which, mm, would likely lead her to this blog. I could ask her please not to read my blog but (a) I'm not sure I want to request that restriction and (b) I can't be sure whether, for example if she's feeling confused/frustrated about something, she won't go ahead and read it anyway. Impulses happen, especially if you're upset. I kinda don't want to worry about those sorts of things.

This is typical of me. I don't often think things all the way through in advance, I can't seem to traverse the possibilities. I prefer to take baby steps and trust I can figure it out along the way.

So, I suppose the point is: do I want any of my lovers reading my blog? Not sure. Well. It's more like: I wouldn't want to tell them not to. I think I'd rather have an environment of trust, that they take whatever I've written with a pinch of salt... It's not necessarily well-edited, it might be poorly phrased... If something you read upsets or confuses you, please talk with me about it. This is a blog that's been helpful for me to unravel and chronicle my own thoughts & experiences re: relationships... I don't want to censor but I also don't want to hurt you. I love you. That's all :)

[BaggagePatrol]

I totally hear that. Sync found my blog some time ago, and it was Not Pretty. I was using it as a place to sort through some pretty twisty/tricky emotions, and without that (generous) pinch of salt it most definitely hurt her feelings to hear that whole side of my process. I dunno, I think that there is something to be said for having private space to sound out your feelings in a community of relative strangers. I've had both of my bois ask if they can read my blog, and I have said that it's my space.... part of me would love to have them know my process, but at the same time I feel like I'd lose a little bit of my feeling of freedom that I have when expressing myself! Would love to hear what you decide.

[fuchka]

BaggagePatrol - thanks for your thoughts on this. Yup I haven't quite figured this out yet. Am I just not able to admit to myself when I need some space that's mine? I guess I feel most boundaries are negotiable... And I generally tend to err on the side of being open / sharing if the other person wants in. Gotta be good reasons to push up against the door, and without personal experience (usually a bad experience) I don't have that conviction.

That said, I'm taking time to reflect on this before I decide whether or how I'm going to share this blog with my partners.

Had a really strong dream last night. Took me a while to come out of it emotionally. Wrote it up for my dream log so may as well just paste it here.

I'm sleeping wtih Carob. In the early morning I stroke his cock, go down on him and suck him til he's on the edge of cumming... then I stop. Say "sorry baby." "What?" "Sorry remember our deal, if you didn't finsh your CV you don't get to cum without Ella's permission." He's half-asleep, grumbling, tries to make some excuse but fails... giving up he turns to service me and we're part-way through making out when there's a shadow in the doorway. I look up and it's Kanthi (my dad's PA). He has some practical questions to ask me about something. I don't act like I have anything to hide. We talk for a bit, I answer his questions. When he leaves I go back to cuddling Carob. I think "well I guess Kanthi saw me with C, but whatever. I'm doing nothing I'm ashamed of." Spooning Carob, I go to sleep.

In the morning, I go downstairs. My diary is on the sofa and a thick section has been cut out of it. I look closer and it's the whole section of my diary from when Carob and I got together. My ma has cut it out and is keeping it as evidence of things between Carob and I. What? She's out of the house, but I immediately ring her phone to discuss it with her. It goes to answerphone. Maybe she's busy with something else, or maybe she's ignoring my call. I am outraged - that she would go through my personal belongings, and actually take pages out of my diary... She obviously wanted me to see what she had done. But she didn't wait to talk with me about it.

I'm really upset. I go back to the bedroom crying. Carob is still asleep... I wake him up. "Baby, ah..." I make a split second decision to leave the house... "we gotta go, we need to leave here, I can't be with my parents anymore. Will you come with me?" "Yes love" he replies. We're packing up our things. I just can't be fucked with this mindfuckery anymore. I need to cut loose. It's like we're eloping. I'm really upset. Emotionally I'm cutting myself off with my parents from this moment. Don't expect to ever see them again. I think of my online journal (at a poly forum) and I'm glad to have at least that. My physical diary was fairly tame. It did have some personal things in it, but light compared with my online journal. I am looking forward to updating my online journal about this shit, getting support from the poly community there. My ma doesn't know about that journal, I need to keep it as a safe place. There's some hard roads ahead.

I wake up from gut-wrenchingly sobbing in my dream and take a while to adjust that I'm in bed beside Sago, and things are okay between my parents and me. Still feel messed in the head over it. Was intense.

(Quote above from my own dream journal)

We are currently open to talking about our relationships with any friends, co-workers, family etc apart from Sago's parents and my parents. Don't want to deal with that right now. It's going to be hard, especially with my ma. Sago's parents easier than mine, but still hard because of cultural expectations. S and I are both first generation immigrants from South Asia and the disconnect between ourselves and our parents is tricky to negotiate, without hurt. We have loving families, that's for sure, but the cultural estrangement is a real part of the relationship. More so for me than for him, I think. His parents are fairly chilled. Mine are kind and generous but my mother can get a bit twisted over things. She is also strongly religious (Catholic). We have quite similar personalities in some ways and I love her dearly. Just, when we clash... oh boy. I tend to step back from her to avoid meltdowns. I'd rather be able to show love to her than cut myself off from her. Anyway, the dream was, wow. Full-on.

Just as I'd finished writing it up for my dream journal, Carob's ma messages me online to say hi. She doesn't do that very often. We mostly e-mail (infrequently) just to stay in touch, or to arrange to meet up when we have the chance. It was such perfect timing. I shared the dream with her, among other things we chatted about. In the past I've told her how difficult it is to negotiate things with my parents, and how hard it's going to be to tell them about poly stuff (if ever). I've also told her how nourishing it's been for me to have met her, and to be accepted by her and feel like I have that maternal connection even though I'm not able to talk about this stuff with my own mother.

Families mean a lot to me, and I suppose this dream is reminding me how this is definitely on my subconscious mind, even though I've put it aside as a thing to "deal with later" for now.

[fuchka]

Guess this is a kind of e-threesome :) All in a good cause (job seeking, which C really needs to do). May explain the first bit of my dream in my previous post too :p

me: got a favour to ask you... Carob... see, he promised me he'd finish his CV last night
Ella: yup
me: he promised he'd do this, otherwise he'd be in trouble
basically he's not allowed to orgasm til I get there unless you give him permission (thought you wouldn't mind helping out... )
I suggest (but it's up to you, of course) that you at least make him wait til he's finished his CV
Ella: Ohhh. You're rough.
But fair
me: I think that would be appropriate
Ella: Certainly, it would be worse for him to not have clear consequences
me: Yes. Indeed. I'm sure he'll appreciate you helping out. And I definitey appreciate your help :) Mm, one thing that I've found to be kind of fun (cos I mean, it's only fair you should get something out of this deal too) is making him wank himself to the edge and beg for it, all the while you yourself not really being sure if you'll let him cum or not... til the last moment
I generally find myself saying "no"
for some reason :p
but there's always that glimmer of hope in his eyes
so beautiful
Ella: :D
thanks for the pro tip
This should make up for last week
(which I think you know about)
me: no worries. I don't want to be presumptuous... but we do learn from each other's experiences
yeah I did hear about that ;)

(Carob didn't let E cum without permission last week.)

[fuchka]

Hmm, so got an e-mail this morning from Ella - C just broke up with her.

Chatted w/ Carob. He hadn't been feeling the sparks (I knew this) but previous to today had been open to keep exploring. So the break up was and wasn't a surprise to me. He said it wasn't planned but felt like the right thing to do at the time. Thinks they'll make good friends.

Skyped w/ Ella. She's okay about things so far, feels like there's an emotional wave yet to break but... yeah. Apparently it was pretty amicable. They had brunch, she dropped him at work.

Talked a bit about what this means for us. I like her and would like to get to know her more. She feels the same about me. So... I guess it's a "triad becoming a V" situation. I don't think I would have sought out this relationship (with Ella) if it hadn't happened the way it did, but it's okay. I'm glad she's in my life, and open to seeing where this goes.

Will be slowly, but I think we're both okay with that. Kinda low-key too. Both of us seem to keep busy with various things. There's this guy Patrick that she has liked for some time. He likes her too but is just out of a messy relationship and isn't keen to rush into a new one. They've been hanging out platonically... maybe something will come of that.

Right now Ella's off drinking w/ friends. Sago is at work (I made porridge for us this morning with couscous added to the oats cos we ran out of oats... Was quite tasty actually! Like a mix of porridge & semolina pudding) I'm yet to start my day... canoodled briefly with Carob & Ella and processing things. Now back to a quite busy schedule (actually). Heaps to finish before I head off end next month.

No idea how things will change for Carob and Ella... There was some tension in their relationship (internal workings I won't go into here) that I think has been released by this.

I guess this is the interesting part of poly relationships, how they all influence each other, but in the end may simply boil down to dyads (how you relate to each person separately) and, ultimately, how you are with yourself. Not that a triad can't ever feel like a "basic unit" - I'm sure it can. I mean more that the strength of that unit can be increased by strong couples within the triad. Maybe. Maybe it makes poly-bonds less stable? This is strange relationship chemistry. So much more to explore :)

I love that friendship is prevailing here.

Haha, does this mean the four of us are a Y and I'm in the middle? With a kind of loose wheel of agape / attraction round the outside. How many spokes can we grow? :p (Jokes) I'm happy & calm. Hope Ella hangs together - sounds like she will.

Train wreck averted! (Perhaps)

[fuchka]

Been busy with people visiting, including Ayla who is staying with us at the moment and may be here for a month. Had some good chats, including an interesting one last night about attraction. We both feel sexual attraction to each other but in a fluctuating way. I think it's at least partly because I'm guarded? Not sure. I really like our friendship and don't want to fuck things up.

A bit awkward last night when Patch was there too (Ayla's ex). I hadn't told Patch I had a crush on him but there was some strange tension the few times the three of us were together at the party. I felt it would be best to explain things upfront but now I'm second guessing my decision a bit. I told him that I did feel attracted to him but things weren't able to go anywhere cos of Ayla and Carob's feelings about it, so I'm not thinking about him in that way and not really into flirting. But maybe even naming the thing is no good.

I've been quite expressive of care towards him in a non-sexual way in the past but maybe that was okay when things were ambiguous as to how I felt about him. But now that I've said something, maybe I'm going to need to avoid him? I haven't had much experience of being in this situation. Maybe.

My head's a bit muddly at the moment. Had a bit of a mindmelt this morning, feeling like I was behaving badly to explore the grey areas of friendship and love and intimacy and sex and touch... I understand them to be mysteriously nebulous things with no obvious boundaries, but I know other people do value boundaries between these things. Maybe these boundaries are human-constructed but perhaps they are there to provide necessary structure and discipline to the infinite possibilities of relating... Maybe without these norms things are unbounded and chaotic in a bad way.

Things good between Ella and me, a low simmer.

Had some lovely sleeps with Sago, intertwined bodies.

Carob and I grazed against each other the other day. We were talking (about some serious things at some points, more on that later) as well as playing, and he suddently felt it was all too much... I maybe should have been gentler. But all of a sudden he snapped, said: fuck it, need space, I'm going to bed. I felt the hurt of that. Would have appreciated a flag up to warn me what he was feeling like. But yeah, this occured almost 100% because dealing with shit long-distance is hard.

I took some time to process my feelings, then wrote him an e-mail apologising for my end. He wrote back apologising for his reaction. We realised we hadn't Skyped for a while too (recently having reverted to text-based chat, without meaning to.) Skype date yesterday (managed to steal time even with two people staying here - the other person apart from Ayla is actually Carob's ex! From several years ago. They dated for about three years.) Very much better now.

Scooting to see a band I like play for free at a local cafe, whee! A date with myself. Love those

[fuchka]

Band was good, closed my eyes and let the music untangle me with its fingers.

Said bye bye to Carob's ex (Enid). Was good to spend time with her, hadn't really done much of that before one-on-one as we usually hang out in groups. Experiencing for myself the self-confidence, intelligence, wit, cultural knowledge and compassion that Carob would have been attracted to. Feeling like she was easily flustered, could need time-out without much warning. Wanting to connect but not wanting to ruffle her. Playing the host and explorer at once. Keeping my torchlight soft.

We made a story together while watching a movie that was part of her PhD thesis. I typed and she drew. It felt like a new thing, judder bars, not-so-natural but worth it. Creating together with a very creative person is a tricky dynamic to get right, but one I find very rewarding.

Later, we were talking about monogamy. Enid said she finds poly stories amusing because she's definitely not that way inclined. She wondered if there was an element of seeking complications - as in, maybe I just am attracted to making things more difficult in my relationships. That made me a bit defensive at first (especially cos it really doesn't feel like that) but it also sparked some reflection. I guess at a fundamental level, I need good reasons not to go somewhere rather than impetus to go there. My default state is - venturing further is allowed.

Ate late-night dumplings with Sago. Unpacked some of what I'd been feeling in the previous post re: Patch & Ayla. My emotions also somewhat triggered by conversation with E above (i.e. that I was seeking complications). Sago said "you're a really good person. You show a lot of love to people. Don't feel bad about yourself." I didn't think I needed to hear that, but it was so so good to be affirmed. I love him so much, so glad we are living our lives together.

Sent a couple of texts to Patch. A bit more context - while I'd been talking with him about my attraction to him I may have kissed him a couple of times on the neck. Well, I did. It was, ah, expressions of affection and we had been drinking a bit, but it wasn't the drinking. I am a physically affectionate person and it wasn't out of character for me. But given the point of the conversation (explaining unexplained tension, and describing boundaries) I suspected it may have been too much too much.

Also, the times that Patch and I have hung out recently have been in the middle of the night. It's just when I had time, and also I'm sometimes up at night (I occasionally do a radio show from 2-6am, for example). Anyway, Ayla had told me "Patch said you'd been around late night a few times." which made me realise he may have taken the timing to be suggestive of me wanting more from him. Ah! Mind noddles, basically. Anyway, the texts:

Hey man. Hope my candour wasn't too full on. Sorry if I crossed any lines. I have faith that good-willed folks can communicate through most thing so here's hopin

My motivation to catch up and hang out with you hasn't been with the hope or aim of hooking up with you. Just yesterday I wanted to explain any odd vibes. Cool, cya

In the evening he replied:

All good. Woke up today at 3. Big night, awesome times. Don't worry good to chill out

Sweet :)

Ayla knew I was feeling a bit weird this morning, so she kept in touch and asked if I was doing okay. At some point I may chat with her about this but I didn't need to talk, just needed time out myself to process.

Patch and Ayla caught up yesterday, must have been great to re-connect because it's been a while since they've seen each other. They had gone out for six or more years I think. I knew them when they were together (how I met Patch).

Sago and I were sleeping by the time Ayla got home. I assumed she'd be staying over with P. Was surprised to hear her pottering in the kitchen this morning. I'm keeping a bit of emotional distance, don't really want to put myself into whatever they've got between them. I said to Ayla a few nights back how I feel inclined to be a (friendly, loved and loving) third wheel sometimes. I don't want (or have time for!) a serious relationship with either of them but being sexual in a way that makes sense in our current friendship dynamics could be...

... what?

Pleasurable? Rewarding? "Worth it"? Another experience?

There are so many places I don't strictly need to go but I'm curious to embark on a treasure hunts. Staying in the safety of my hut often feels like the easier option, but also the wrong one.

That said, I know when I need to touch home base, to take time out. My adventurousness relies on me being aware of and respecting those needs. Right now I am content to be relaxed and welcoming. First time I've shared living space with Ayla (though I'd lived with her sister for a couple of years! Have been catching myself calling her by her sister's name a few times, whoops.) Liking learning the shape of that. She might be crashing here for 3-4 more weeks while she finds her feet in the city. Chances like this (to spend quality time with people) are very precious to me.

[fuchka]

Carob just had a first interview by phone for a job in the city I'm living in now! He's decided to move here regardless of whether he gets the job. (As in, keep looking for other jobs here, and shift over when he's got one) This is really good news. Here's hoping they like his CV and he gets a second interview. Regardless, I'm amped.

Sago's contract runs out early next year but I'm planning to find work here once I'm back from my travels (end Sept / early Oct) so we can probably make this all work. This isn't a permanent move for any of us (we wanna ultimately be based in our home town) but it means... no more long-distance!

And, yeah, looking pretty likely that I'll come back from my adventures to both the boys living here :) And it'll be spring! (southern hemisphere) All good things...

I'll still have other things taking me back to my home town, so will get a chance to see Ella too (even if C moves here. Actually, not "if"... when. When! YEAH!) In fact she's planning on being here for Christmas. At this stage unsure of our holiday plans (we may be going back to our home city for Christmas; Sago's folks live there) so may swap countries, d'oh.

Light at the end of the gloom tunnel though. Phew.

[Mya]

Wow, that's great news! I'm so happy for you. :)

[fuchka]

Funny night last night. Went out to do the laundry, and was planning on visiting my cousin (who lives near laundromat) while washing was turnin, but she was out. So I had a beer at a local pub instead. Turns out the performer was a local poly person, so there were people there from the poly things I've been to. Nice to bump into local friends!

Such good conversations. Bought beer and a pickled egg for someone, which precipitated much more beer. I chatted with a morose-looking dude who was sitting by himself at the end of the bar. Turns out we had plenty to talk about. Three hours later, the bar had closed around us (chairs up everywhere, lights even dimmer than before) and it was him, myself and the bartender (also a colleague of Sago's, in his other job!) drinking a final Guinness. Bliss.

Got ready to walk my laundry home (by this stage, it's 2am. I had left the house at 8 intending to be home by 10! Ha) and turns out the guy I've been chatting to lives round the corner from me. This is a bit surprising because the block of shops with this pub/laundromat is not the closest to where I live. I'd travelled a bit further so I could get a chance to see my cousin.

Anyway, I wander homewards with aforementioned Dude. At the junction between his place and mine, I ask if I can give him a goodbye kiss. This turns into me with fogged up glasses (so geeky), then us jumping a fence into an abandoned lot - tall, cold grass - and making out some more. (Got a cut in the palm of my hand jumping out, later. Battlewounds!)

He wanted me to come back to his place, but I said I had things to do the next day and didn't want a late start. He promised me that he could kick me out by 4am. At this point, we looked at the time and it was already 4am... So. It was farewell, but we exchanged numbers and maybe will meet up in the next couple of weeks.

Ayla was out last night too, and she came back mid-morning with tales of an unexpected threesome with two of her friends. Ah. Hilarious. Neither of us feel we actively seek these kinds of connections out... and yet they seem to happen. I know it's not unusual for some people, but I feel it's less common if you're ambivalent? Or at least, not out looking to score? I dunno.

Had an effulgence of non-specific happiness this afternoon. I called Sago at work to say hi, gush love, then rang Carob for the same and then rang Ella, just because.

Ella's a physicist, so was fun to touch base with her re: the particle news. She's crushing on her office mate at the mo too, so we chatted a bit about that.

Carob sent his CV in for this job, and they invited him to formally apply (which he's doing now). Just helped him edit his cover letter and supporting documents. Sago looked over it and said it looked good. Fingers crossed.

Thanks for your comment Mya :) Yeah, pretty stoked. S said it seems like he's made the whole family move over here. Indeed.

[fuchka]

Performed poetry and music at a gig last night. Sago said my singing has really improved, and he enjoyed the songs more than the poems! I have been performing poetry (not really 'spoken word' / slam poetry style, but still a performative style) for a while but only recently singing my own songs in public. Was a boost.

Ayla came to the gig too. We drank a bit of wine and then I went with her to an electronica party (my first). I had lulls of boredom with the music, which happens I guess when you're dancing to similar rhythms for hours :) Maybe it's different if you're high, which I wasn't. It was an indoors party. I think I'd like outdoors ones better, too.

Ayla spent a bit of time texting Patch and this other guy she's recently hooked up with. I didn't feel jealous, and I know if I told her this was bothering me, she'd stop. I love her communication style, it's quite similar to mine (doing your best not to hurt people, but also taking people at their face value). She was trying to figure what to do with the rest of her night, after the party. She said she'd either be heading to Patch's or this other guy's.

We made out a bit at the party, including (at my whim) behind one of the curtains. One of the club's security rumbled over and told us off! Apparently we looked suspicious like we were up to mischief, and this is a bad look. Hehe. Many hours later, I walked past the curtains again and there were people making out behind each one so I felt in good company.

At one point, Ayla said that Patch was coming over to the party too. When he turned up, I said hi... but felt really awkward. I felt like giving them space. I had told this to Ayla earlier, that I'm not sure how to navigate those dynamics right now.

She said "is it because you want to jump his bones?"

And I said, actually it's not. It's because I feel a connection with him that (if there were no restrictions) could grow a particular way. I guess I just recognise an attraction and possibility on that level. But it's not a possibility that I need to explore. And Ayla being uncomfortable with that (and also Carob) means that I'm not going to go there. I'm happy just chilling out.

However, since she's been back, she's been processing a lot of her relationship with Patch. Also I think processing her jealousy around the idea of Patch & I possibly hooking up. I feel like she's grown my feelings for Patch into this drive which she's holding me back from (in fact she isn't). I've been finding it hard to express my actual position, which is - haha, I guess I don't know what that is!

Obviously I need to tease that out for myself.

I like Patch and Ayla, they are really good people. I love that they are in my life and I care a lot about them.

At the moment, I feel like there's internal dynamics between the two of them which I want to keep my distance from. They've had a history, and I feel them in a really good place to forgive each other for ways they hurt each other when they were dating way back when. As I mentioned earlier in my blog, they'd dated for many years. For a while after the break, they weren't friends... but now they're getting to be close again. It's beautiful to watch, but I suppose in a state of flux. Maybe it's the first time since the break-up where they've been on good terms, and also open to emotional / physical intimacy.

With this going on between them, I don't feel like inserting myself in a deep way. Definitely not keen to feed or voice desires. Needs, yes. But desires, no. When I catch up with them individually, I find it easier to speak plainly and chill out. But both at once? I feel like I'm falling into the clockwork (in a bad way). Maybe catching up the three of us for a frank chat on point would adjust things. But, not sure whether making time for that makes it more of an issue. It's not like "we need to talk". It's more "we could talk, and that could make things clearer, and the immediate future more fruitful."

Once Patch got to the party, I said hi and had a bit of a cuddle and then I moved away from them and danced in a different spot. When I looked for them later, I couldn't find them. Went for a long walk (intended to walk home, actually, but 20 mins into the walk - and it's freakin cold these days! - realised I was walking in the wrong direction. So walked back) then went to check in on the party again. A mutual friend at the door said that Patch and Ayla had headed off. Ah well.

I felt a twinge, actually a quick flame, of anger towards them. They had left at some point earlier without checking in on me. Ayla knew it was my first time at a party like this, and also that I didn't have a cellphone. I had told her, if she's catching up with Patch, I'd be keen to hang with them for a bit (if that would be cool), and then when they'd like space I'd cruise home. Maybe they tried to find me but couldn't (though I was on the dance floor the whole time, which wasn't that big).

I know I'm a big girl and they knew I'd figure things out and be okay. I figured they were together so I didn't have to worry about them. I'm quite okay with being independent... I guess I just felt the switch (Ayla hanging out with me, to Ayla hanging out with Patch). To some extent I did it to myself by assuming they'd want space from me, distancing myself at the dance.

I suppose I'm not sure how much I want to make an effort to navigate this shit. Obviously will tend to anything that's affecting our friendships... but beyond that? Hmm. My thoughts last night (walking by myself) were that Patch & Ayla's dynamics didn't feel a safe place for me to be vulnerable in. It's strange cos they are very caring people. I think it's just a function of their own explorations at the moment, that together they're trees in the wind, rather than unmoving branches. No can climb. (Maybe I can be a windy tree alongside though! Ha)

Ayla stayed over last night with Patch. I couldn't sleep long, danced too hard. Chilling out in Ayla's bed (sofa bed in the lounge) while Sago sleeps in. He had a good night himself - was awake watching Alien movies when I got home at 4am! So cute.

[fuchka]

Ayla came home in the arvo. She and Patch had been out back at the party smoking. Must have not seen them in the shadows, whoops. Figured there would be something like that but couldn't work it out by myself.

Ah, I have plenty to get sorted before I travel (under three weeks now). Not like I have time to deal with the complexities of this. Surely over-thinking things anyway... Well. It's more that I find all of this very interesting. That's one thing Carob and I have in common - a consuming passion for vivisecting social phenomena.

Anyway, Ayla's probably gonna be still in this city by the time I get back from holiday. And the timing may be better then, to examine things, cos she and Patch would've had some solid time to figure how things are rolling between them.

K, settling down to watch a movie in bed with Sago. Cosy!

[rory]

Ah, I have plenty to get sorted before I travel (under three weeks now). Not like I have time to deal with the complexities of this. Surely over-thinking things anyway... Well. It's more that I find all of this very interesting. That's one thing Carob and I have in common - a consuming passion for vivisecting social phenomena.
That's the thing! I do this kind of thing a lot with Mya. It's not the case that everything is so complex that it needs to be analysed - it's more that it's fun to examine aspects and whys and all of that. :p

I actually came across 'spoken word' recently and quite liked it (a friend sent me a link to a video). Actually found it very engaging in comparison to written poetry (which I'm also not too familiar with).

[fuchka]

I've been relatively slow off the mark considering STDs properly.

In retrospect, I've been unrealistically trusting of people letting me know of any STDs they may have, let alone knowing their status in the first place.

That said, this hasn't been a significant risk for me til recently. Although I've been open to sex with other people in principle, since Sago and I got together we've mostly been practically monogamous. Apart from a couple of forays, we hadn't hooked up with anyone else until me and Carob, three years' back.

Last year was when things started to fan out a bit. At that point, I should have confronted the STD issue explicitly, but I didn't. For some reason, it wasn't til Carob and Ella got together (and I was hearing of Ella's other partners) I thought - wait on. We should discuss this properly. (Stupid, I know.) Long-distance was a factor here too (Carob started dating Ella after I left town); maybe it would have crossed my mind earlier if not for the long-distance.

Anyway, I did a bit of research at the time (earlier this year) and found this really good resource about STDs and Poly:

http://www.serolynne.com/poly_stds.htm

I've been meaning to post about it but hadn't got around to it.

After reading the articles, and some other things, I decided to get smarter about this stuff. I chatted separately with Sago and Carob and figured we could do regular tests spaced out so that between the three of us we get tested every four months. I 'locked in' a firmer consciousness of my own boundaries with any new partners. I know Sago is very conservative in his own practices. Carob and I are a bit more relaxed. But neither of us want to be dumb, and have a commitment to informed best practice.

Anyway, I got tested first - about a month ago. Was all good. Carob's up next, later this year. We felt we'd dodged some bullets by not dealing with this aspect earlier, but glad we were on the right track now. Still more to discuss perhaps re: clear agreements on how restrictive we each should be about any new partners (at the moment, as before, there's a basic expectation of safer sex, but what that means for each of us is up to us.)

Well. All this is somewhat unrelated background to an issue that came up this weekend. Carob calls me with some really bad news. He sounded freaked out (in fact, his opening words were - "Bub, I just think I did the stupidest thing of my whole life"), and tells me he had a slip up with someone the night before, who's HIV+. Based on what happened, it's very low risk of infection for him but it's still exposure and we'll need to treat it as serious til he's clear. Tests at 28 days, 3 months and again at 6 months (though 95% of cases show up in the first test, at 28 days). And of course treating our sexual encounters as +/- til then. Fuuuuck. A diagnosis would be life changing.

Last couple of days have been very rough. C feeling intense fear, guilt. We've been chatting a lot. I am so happy I'll be seeing him soon, just 2 1/2 weeks from now. Small mercies.

Praying we can dodge just one more bullet. Re-assessing how risky we are with other people. I guess being non-monogamous sexually is a risk in itself. Yada yada. Other people (like link above, and heaps on swinger sites too, and prolly elsewhere on this forum) have written about this in depth. This is just my own experience of making judgment calls.

I value sex with my current partners too much to get it wrong. I'm considering being even more stringent with new sexual partners, even maybe not kissing (!) Feels a bit paranoid to me, but it doesn't hurt to check where my boundaries are and why. Since it's going to be a long wait before C is fully cleared (six months), it is something positive to do in the meantime.

Thought of a food analogy today. How I eat food prepared by other people expecting that they wouldn't serve me anything that is dangerous for me. I had til recently unconciously thought of sexual partners like that too. But since turning my mind to this (earlier this year), I have realised my naivety - esp considering many people who have an STD don't even realise they've picked up one.

I wasn't allowed to go to sex ed at school (my ma wrote a letter excusing me due to religious reasons.) I wonder if I would've been so slow on addressing this if I had more info about this growing up. Not really exonerating though, I feel there's enough attention on the topic of STDs that I should have known better.

Mm. Well. Fingers crossed for Carob. No matter what happens, we're going to be even less likely to take a disease-free status for granted from now on. If you're the praying kind (of any tradition), prayers would be really welcome right now.

Finally, I know some people may feel critical of anyone ever having a relaxed approach to this topic. All perspectives are appreciated but please be respectful and gentle.

[fuchka]

Strained, stretched, butter spread too thinly... Carob's been fairly mindfucked. He's got sick, convinced it's early symptoms of infection. Very likely not, but it's triggering a cycle of worrying. He hasn't been able to sleep much, and big bills this month means he's also really poor. I suggested going to the doctor to get something to help with sleep or anxiety, and he said he will if he needs to but is concerned with if he can afford it.

Couple of days ago he went to see an AIDS counsellor - really good idea. It calmed him down quite a bit and he has a plan to get tested again when I'm there later this month. That will be 80% chance of accurate result.

This morning got up early to help Sago with a presentation he's doing today. Two hours later, there's a message from C asking if I can Skype. I finish up as quickly as I can and talk to him. He's crying, scared. Worried that if he's positive and I leave again that he won't be able to handle it. Aah... shit, dude.

Need to hold you right now. Wish I had money to help you out. You're slipping and I can't help much at all :/ I told him it's almost certain the result won't be positive, but if it is and he needs me to stay then I will. I said in general, whatever you need, if it's something I can give you then I'll do it.

As for me, I dunno. Need to get a whole heap done before I head away. When I keep busy I'm mostly okay. But my heart's going out to him, bleeding out.

I'm sleeping better than he is, but restless dreams, going round the cogs of this stress. In the morning I feel churned out of my subconscious.

Can't talk about anything I need right now, not to C at least, perspective all out of whack.

Sago and Ayla have been awesome. Ayla's very good friends with Carob and has been chatting with him quite a bit. She's found some useful links, like the free counselling and testing service.

Sago's been gentle with me, wrote a really sweet & kind e-mail to C, and is simply being his regular all-round awesome self.

In another city, there's apparently a better test available that shows up accurate results much sooner. If this is true, C may ask his ma to pay for him to go to get that. I reckon his mental health is really on balance right now, so if that's an option for him to get what he needs, then I hope it works out.

[fuchka]

Scraped bottom yesterday, found the contact of a poly-friendly counsellor in town, felt like I really needed to talk myself out... Then thought, ah, don't think we can afford that. Reflected for a bit and decided one way to destress myself would be to really focus on the non-Carob things that were looming (my to do list).

Sought Ella's help with one of them - so glad I did! Was really helpful and good to chat. She doesn't know about things with C at the moment but yeah, in some ways that made it easier to unwind.

I suggested to Carob to find someone in our home city that he trusted, who could be there for him in person, hugs and such - he suggested maybe Enid (his ex-gf who was visiting here last month). Sweet. He and her had a coffee date this morning. Glad he's getting different perspectives on this.

Meant to Skype with C last night but ended up hanging out with Sago and his work friends til late. Needed the release.

Ah nice! Just heard from Carob that he hung out last night with another mutual friend of ours (one who is house- and cat-sitting for Sago and me at the moment)... Excellent. This definitely makes the distance less awful. He had his first good meal and sleep since the weekend too, and is feeling much better. Relief.

[fuchka]

Carob's up and down, what a mindfuck, sometimes holding it together, sometimes spaghetti on the floor.

See him in ten days, woo.

Had a bit of an awkward negotiation with Ella over Skype. She doesn't know what's being going on for C recently. I arrive there on Thurs, and she heads off herself (away for a month study overseas) early Sat morning. Initially I was thinking I'd see her on Thurs and stay with Carob from Fri onwards. But given current situation, really need to spend the night with C on Thurs. End of the rope. Is not ideal to spend the night with Ella on Friday (given she's flying out very early the next day, would have been lovelier to sleep in etc) but yeah. Situation gnarly. Just gonna have to be that way.

Ella didn't really understand, she asked why couldn't we go with the more convenient option of seeing her on Thurs (given I'm going to be in town for a week and can see C on any other night.) I didn't want to get into details, but pretty much told her that the way things were, it was a bit more delicate than mere convenience. Said that Carob's been going through a pretty rough patch...

She was sweet about it, but kinda unconvinced. Not sure how I can say any more. Maybe she'll find out later, and it will all make sense in retrospect.

Having some sweet cuddles with Sago. After I visit Carob & Ella, I'm going to be travelling for a couple of months more, so will be a while before I see him. Ah man, gonna miss this dude... But so amped to be travelling. Just heard that my friend managed to get hold of a Burning Man ticket for me too!

Mmm...

There's just one more thing. A few times, when Carob's been feeling really guttural, he's said "I might not be able to cope if the test comes out positive, and then you leave"... As I mentioned before, he pretty much asked me if I would stay, if he couldn't handle it without me. I've said "yes, I'll stay if you need me to" each time but I'm hoping like fuck that (a) he isn't positive (for many other reasons apart from this!) and (b) even if he is, he won't need me to stay.

It's selfish, I know, but I don't feel guilt about it. It's simply how I feel. I need to hit the road. And, yeah, it would be a real waste of money of everything I've spent so far. Plus, be a disappointment for friends. Doesn't bear thinking about.

I meant what I said. If he really needs me to stay, I will. Maybe this is my little gamble.

Ah. This is rough.

So busy before I go too. Gonna be shredded by the time I board that plane. Hey, what's new :)

[Mya]

I'm so sorry to hear what you guys are going through right now. :( I'm hoping for the best!

[fuchka]

Heading away in five days! Spending a week back home - staying with Carob, and seeing Ella a wee bit too. C took days off work for the whole time I'm there. I'm really touched. So far he's used up pretty much all his annual holidays to see me during this year (over Easter he came here, and now he's taking more time off when I'm there). I asked if he could manage one or two days off so we could take a long weekend away, but he actually got a whole week (five days) off. Man, I love that boy. Time is something precious you can spend on people, no matter how tight for cash you are.

Have a few major things to finish up before I go, gotta hunker down this weekend. Sago helped heaps last couple of days, talking to the bank and doing some immigration stuff that I needed to get done.

Had a bit of a twist with Ayla last night. I'd been avoiding seeing Patch since she's been here, but I caught up with him for a drink last night. I was feeling like I should ask her whether she'd be okay with that, but my thoughts on the matter were - I don't want to treat him like she's his gate-keeper, and I don't think she wants to be treated as that either. But my feelings were... ah, I don't want to make things harder for her. Give her things to process.

But. I did wanna see Patch. He's a bit of a recluse, doesn't always make an effort to hang with people. As a friend, I wanted to touch base and see how he was doing etc. So yeah, I did. Ayla was busy last night, so couldn't hang out with us, but I met up with her at home much later on. She said she felt a bit weird cos he hadn't replied to her earlier about catching up, but then he did make an effort to catch up with me. He often doesn't reply to messages, that's just how he rolls... but she felt hurt by that.

I said I was sorry to do something that made her have to deal with these emotions. She said - processing things is part of life, and I shouldn't feel guilt about this. Mm. I guess I just hate making her feel like she's the problem, like her emotions are getting in the way of other people's happiness. I told her that there's nothing I need her to process, or "get over", so that I can hook up with Patch or whatever. I would like to be friends with him, and if we can make that work (given that I've said that I'm attracted to him) that would be perfect.

That said... ha! Talking with Patch made me realise what it is about touch that I really like. I love, absolutely love, conversations. The feeling of someone combing through my mind with their words. But sometimes touch lets you adventure further with ideas... you can explore rockier territory cos you're holding each other physically. We traded good words as always, but I did want to run my hands over his skin. (I didn't, but yeah.)

I suppose I am inclined to be intimate when I feel the connection is there. Hmm. If I get enough stuff done, maybe will see if anyone's free late night to hang out and smoke shisha (there's a place that's central and open til 5) or some such thing. Could be a good chance to unwind with friends and also see Patch & Ayla together if they're into it. Ah, okay, gotta do enough stuff so I deserve a break :)

[fuchka]

I'm so sorry to hear what you guys are going through right now. :( I'm hoping for the best!

Mya - thanks a lot for your reply. Felt really good actually. I didn't expect or ask for comforting messages from others on this forum but it was nice to read your words. Was feeling a bit dumb (but not as dumb as Carob was feeling!)

Also was a bit unsure about posting about our HIV scare here, given it's a publicly accessible forum, but it was (and still is) pretty intense at times dealing with it, and writing helps. Maybe I could have written it out to myself and kept it private (as I do sometimes) but I guess I felt like reaching out a bit too. And as it's part of our relationship story, seemed to fit here. Depending on result, this could be a massive part of our lives.

This has made me aware of how variable people are about STIs. Some people are very knowledgeable and have strict boundaries. But yeah, using condoms doesn't protect from everything so we take some risks even with condom use.

I have only recently had a couple of experiences with guys in a more casual-sex way and it surprised me that they both seemed to think of condoms as a birth control thing. They said "oh, aren't you on the pill?"

Anyways. I feel like to be naive about this is a taboo? Like, something shameful to admit? I feel like there's this social expectation to be perfect and to know what you're doing when you're having sex with other people... And definitely, being smart is good! For whatever reason I'm only now learning some important lessons. Should have thought of some of this stuff much earlier, yes. But also this seems like quite a personal thing, how you assess risk. Mm.

Well we have a test scheduled for the afternoon on Monday week. Something like 80% chance it'll show up then if it's going to be positive. Can't remember all the percentages. After that, another test at three months which will almost certainly be the correct result. And then finally six months for a full clearance. Carob wants to be cautious between us until the 6 month test, which I totally agree with.

It's good I'm going to be there with him for the first test. Then second test I'll actually be with him no matter where he is (looks very likely he's getting job! But still not confirmed... aaah... so excited!). I'll be there after 2 months, since we're sailing back into my home city (so can go with him if he's still there). But then a few days after that will be coming back here (so can go with him if he's moved here) So it's really perfect timing. Small blessings, eh?

My blood-type is B+, which I always thought of as my attitude towards life... Cheesy, yeah, but helps at times like this. (Though, not being stupid means you avoid those avoidable bad situations that require optimism to overcome! Ha)

[fuchka]

Sitting on the deck at Carob's ma's place - 1hr drive out of town. We wanted to get away somewhere for our three year anniversary but too broke really :p His ma just bought this place after selling her old place in town. It's so beautiful out here. Plains and mountains all around me, a smear of clouds across a blue winter sky... Shorts and t-shirt weather, amazing.

Ella headed away yesterday. Spent a couple of nights with her. First time just the two of us... she's still quite rough from breakup with Carob. Interesting dynamics. Was kind of hard. I mean, I'm just getting to know her. I really like her, she's cute, smart, hilarious, sexy, so delicious, she has an electric ukelele. I have no problem with relating to her as a person, and I think there are many adventures we could have together.

But... I dunno if I have time / energy. We'll see. Sounds harsh, but that's how it is. In bed one time, she said "aaah, move back to this city." She's at uni here for at least another three years. Man. Carob's nearly nearly nearly got a job at our new city. I'm not heading back here for at least another year, I reckon. And, well, yeah. The thought of another long-distance, wrenching, missing kind of relationship really does not appeal.

On the other hand, I don't like the idea of trying to regulate my feelings towards her. Mm. So far, I haven't fallen too hard. I think it's because I know the context - it's gonna be long-distance for the foreseeable future. And, she's just figuring her stuff out (I'm the first girl she's been with)... She has other crushes. So far not dating anyone else, but she could do. And that person may prefer to be monogamous. In which case, I would like to stay friends and not hurt too much.

So I guess I've got my armour on a bit. Keeping me sane... And she knows this is how I'm feeling, so I don't feel like I'm acting poorly towards her. I spent as much time as I could with her before she left. Went to dinner with her folks (I was a "friend"). She came to dinner with a couple of close friends of Sago's & mine.

It feels good to consolidate circles of friends and family. It's making me aware of the areas that are still segregated, though, and I'm getting nervous about not having come out to Sago's family and my parents. I mean, we don't have to do this at all, but I think it would be preferable and - perhaps - necessary (depending on what happens if/when we have kids). Visited Sago's folks the other night. In the past I've felt like it wouldn't be so hard to tell them about being poly, but this time it struck me how much of a betrayal it would feel to them. I don't know whether it's my mood, or me losing my naivete about the situations, or whether it's because it's worse now (like, it would have been better if we'd told them earlier). Ah. Will discuss this more with Sago later. I know this is one of the only concerns of his, in terms of living this way openly. I share his concern... Another topic for another day.

For now, I'm chilling out in the sunshine. Carob's hanging with his bro playing computer games. We've had some rocky moments since I've been back, with him being absorbed in other things and kind of ignoring me. I had a bit of a sleep-deprived meltdown the evening I arrived... Needed more attention than he was giving me. I felt stupid because I knew he wanted to spend time with me, but felt like he didn't give a shit about me being there. Eventually talked it out, felt much better. I think it's a symptom of long-distance relationships... there's this adjustment period of wacky emotions when you see each other again. Probably heightened by the general stress of travelling - packing, sorting out other things to make time to see each other.

I love just hanging out in each other's company. Or doing different things in the same house. It's enough to me that I'm being acknowledged... So, even though Carob's been playing this computer game almost all day, he's come out and talked to me every now and then. And I got to sleep in (yay! Hardly ever manage that) while he talked geekery with his bro this morning. His ma just headed back into town. We're about to go for a walk with his bro.

Heading back ourselves tomorrow. Carob's test in the afternoon. Fingers crossed. Flying out a couple days after that. Me time, yay!

(For once I got cancellation insurance on what I've spent on my holiday so far... just in case test results not good... Here's hoping not.)

[fuchka]

Fu-uuuuck yeah. Sat with Carob while we waited for test results today, and it's all clear. What a mind bend. Test in two months, but pretty likely it's going to be fine. Deep breath...

Mm. Had a few celebratory drinks and rolled around in bed a bit. Feeling rather destressed now :) Was really good to be here for that. As if long-distance wasn't hard enough...

Ella wrote me, wondering if I was going to scale back from her, for fear that we'd frow to care too much for each other, and start missing each other... Well. No. I don't think I can do this (step back). But I'm going to go as slowly and sensibly as I can manage.

[fuchka]

Ella's in Europe doing some field work for her post-grad thesis.

Carob's in our home city (in New Zealand), working on his own projects, still hating his job there, waiting for the final interview with the opening in our new city (he's at the HR stage of things, soft skillz)

Sago's in our new city (Australia), seems to be enjoying the temporary bachelor's lifestyle! Received a few e-mails from him that he's living it up :) Good for him.

As for me, well! I'm in the States at my friend's place in Boston, about to drive cross-country with her. Hope we make it! She managed to get a Burning Man ticket for me, and we're planning to reach the west coast just in time for the burn. Will be an epic way to end the trip. Hoping to catch up with Heart (http://www.polyamory.com/forum/member.php?u=1706) there (who I met via this forum). Although I have a few more family and friends round the States, not sure I'll have time to meet them. Just seeing one girl in Georgia who I've been internet friends with for over a decade (I think)... Quite excited about finally meet her in person.

Guess this update isn't really about my relationships, apart from... Sago's helped me out a lot with being able to afford this holiday. Meant that I could do it before I got back into work properly, even though haven't been able to save nearly enough for it. So so grateful.

Carob and I talking finances a wee bit. Maybe at some point we'll manage to co-ordinate between the three of us.

Really not at that stage with Ella, though very much into the sharing resources thing. For example, borrowing her car while I was visiting meant that I was able to go out of town with Carob, and get heaps more things done.

Mm, I'm making my relationships sound a bit too functional (as in, serving a function) but what I really mean is that they're functional (in the sense of, working well!)

I might not be writing much for the next couple of months as I travel.
Not sure how many people really follow this blog, anyway... Well. I'm fairly relaxed about the idea that no one is reading! It's really good on a personal level for me to chronicle in this way. And just a bonus that it may from time to time trigger a response. That said, thanks for reading, if you are. And enjoy your winter / summer.

Peace

[rory]

I haven't had the time/energy to write here much lately, but so glad to hear your good news! :)

[fuchka]

Thanks, rory. More good news - Carob got the job! So, returning after this holiday to both boys in the same city... What a treat. My adventures continue. Having a good time. Had a frustrating conversation yesterday trying to explain to my travelling companion how my relationships work. She kept saying "I just can't get my head around it."

I was so happy to hear the news about C's job, and she wasn't really understanding how this was a good thing.

Ah well, different strokes. I'm blissful. Hitting the road again soon.

[rory]

Oh, end of your LDRing then soon, too!! Congrats! :) :)

[fuchka]

Back on land! Driving through the US was amazing. Got the chance to go to Burning Man, which was a fun experience. Spent a lot of time exploring by myself. Wasn't into hooking up with anyone, just wandering around really. Met someone in person who I'd connected with on this forum, which was nice. After that, sailing, and... well... it was quite intense. Glad I did it though. Learnt a lot. Very sea sick unfortunately so took a while to recouperate.

Got back to my home city a few days ago. Ella disappointed that I don't feel like spending heaps of time with her. To be honest, needed down-time to process the travels and lock in my focus for the next wee while. I find myself wanting to prioritise my own projects over growing a new relationship with someone else.

Not sure if it's indicating a lack of passion about her specifically, or my mood in general. I've not really had anything like NRE with her. Maybe because of how it started (her being Carob's girlfriend first, me being fairly busy). I can't think of anything about her in particular that makes me ho-hum. I like her, and we have good sex, she's smart and challenges me, but right now I'm not driven (or not letting myself be driven) towards intimacy with her. I'm being guarded, maybe. Or... jealous of my own time. Or perhaps not open right now to being carried away by someone new... though, hey, it could happen.

Had a chat with Ella about this the other day, as I haven't felt like staying over at her place at all. I said I don't feel very drawn to being sexual with her, that I'm too restless with getting my own shit done. I acknowledged that this was an awful thing to say, and that I wish it wasn't so, and that it wasn't really fair on her. But she took it well. She was disappointed but pragmatic. Guess we'll see how we go.

I'm back to our new city next week on Thursday! YAY! Carob headed over there a few weeks ago for his new job. He's loving it. Phew.

He and Sago met up for a beers, and on another occasion were both at a mutual friend's birthday party. Funny to think of them being in the same place together without me. Looking forward to a bit of "normalcy" with no LDR! Woo! (Can't really let Ella factor in to the no-LDR celebration, unfortunately... Ah. I'm craving relative simplicity. Must suck for her, I guess, but it's how it is. I'm being as honest as I can with her, and giving what I can give.)

Skyped with Carob yesterday and Sago this morning - luxury! High speed internet! So good to see their faces.

Carob mentioned a suggestion by one of his friends, Rick, for us to go on a camping trip. Rick, and his girlfriend Kim are mostly Carob's friends, who I hang out with these days cos of C. Sago knows them through C as well. They live in our new city, and we (S + I) have caught up with them now and then, not too much. In the same circle of friends is Ayla and Patch. (Patch I have a crush on, but is a no go cos of friend dynamics. Ayla is currently half living in Sago's & my place, and half staying with Patch.) Patch, Carob and Rick are old friends. Carob is currently sharing a flat with Patch. This is to paint a perhaps unnecessarily thick background to this snippet of conversation...

Carob: Rick was saying we should all go on a camping trip
Me: Oh yeah, cool. Camping's fun
C: Yeah. Rick and Kim, Patch and Ayla too
Me: Oh. (thinks) So, the six of us?
C: Yeah, like a couples thing
Me: Would Sago be invited?
C: Awww... can't it just be the two of us? (in a tone that implied "... for once")
Me: Yah, yah, of course it could be, let's talk about it when I'm there.

Ah. I get Carob's desire to hang out with his mates (Rick and Patch) and their dates du jour... but it's not so simple. Yes, Ayla and C are old friends, but Sago and I know her independently quite well. (To give an example, Ayla came to our wedding.) I haven't been camping in our new city with Sago yet and we've been meaning to. Basically, if we were going on a trip out somewhere fun, Sago would probably enjoy it too... and he knows enough of the crew well enough as friends (esp Ayla, who has been living based at our place for the last few months) for it to feel kind of weird for him not to be invited.

At least, I find it weird. Like, he'd be left out.

On the other hand, the logistics of hanging out in a three-person thing (esp with V dynamics rather than a triad) if it's a couple-y vibe could be equally weird. Hmm.

Not angsting about it, just something to discuss. The co-ordination begins!

[rory]

Nice to see you here. Cool that your trip has been good! :)

[CattivaGattina]

Jealous girl here. Burnin Man is still on my to-do list. Just need to get the money together one year (both Primal and I have wanted to go for years).

[fuchka]

rory - thanks, it's good to be back! Travels were wonderful, but coming home is even better

Cattiva - Jealousy?!?! :O Heh, jokes. Really hope you and Primal can make it sometime.

Well, here I am. Another airport, another departure lounge coffee. Heading back to our new city. This feels right.

Things with Ella are rather fraught. After being on the road for five weeks and sailing for three, I was in a quite different headspace to her. Basically, I was disinclined to rush into a full-on romance. It seemed like that would be a kind of losing of myself that I wasn't ready for right now. Hard to explain. Also hard to diagnose whether this is my (temporary?) mood in general, towards new relationships, or whether it's Ella-specific.

This attitude really sucked, in terms of timing. I wasn't in town for very long, and I have no specific return date (though she happens to be visiting our new city over Christmas/New Year. Not sure if we'll be there, we haven't discussed holiday plans).

Anyway, stayed over at Ella's place last night. We talked a fair bit, nobbly, stunted, hobbling conversation. Seems we have different expectations about romantic relationships. She didn't get how Sago could be okay with me going away for 2 1/2 months. Didn't get how I was even considering going to dance class this evening (after I get back to our new city) when I haven't seen him for so long. I understood where she was coming from... I suppose it remains to be seen what can be reconciled.

I was awake next to her for hours, gerbilian thoughts running the wheels of my mind.

[fuchka]

OMG OMG OMG wow.

Just caught up really briefly with Sago (changing names on this blog soon, need a fresh start). He's been through a lot since I've been away. He was saying we have a lot to catch up on in person but yeah... wasn't prepared for the extent of the news.

Firstly, he had a very bad patch of depression while I was away, and he's on meds now and feeling really happy for the first time in ages. Possibly years. Not sure, perception gets skewed, but for quite some time he's been muted overall in terms of his mood. Previous meds have had side-effects he hated (which is why he stopped them) so I'm really happy he's found something that suits him.

Second... he's started seeing one of his colleagues! She's married and her husband is all fine with it. I'm friends with both of them too, and they are very lovely people though I don't share all their views. She is quite gorgeous, yeah. Beautiful. Ah. My first reaction was - utter happiness. For him, for her, for everyone. Second reaction was the news trickling through the dark maze of my own insecurities. A bit of body image stuff, but nothing too bad. This is going to be interesting.

Apparently Sago has told Carob but no one else knows apart from Sago's best friend, and Ayla (who walked in on them yesterday). Seems they don't want to be out at the moment, esp as there's a work dynamic.

I'm kind of deliriously happy, and a teeny bit apprehensive.

I love him so much.

The two of us are catching up with Carob after work today for dinner/beers.

Unfortunately we don't have the full ability to laze about and freely catch up on things, as Sago and I aren't home alone at the moment. A friend came into town last night and is staying with us (Ayla's ex, actually. Ah. Fun times) But Sago's taken the day off work and it seems we may have the house to ourselves in the next hour or so. Yay

[fuchka]

Oh, it's been a beautiful couple of days since I've been back. One issue caused a knot, but have been working that one out. All in all, spectacular rainbows.

Thursday eve, after cuddles and talking and a bit of fucking about in bed, Sago and I headed out to meet Carob for dinner at a cheap Asian eatery. S spotted Carob first, standing near a lamppost across the road. I ran up behind him, and casual as ever, he said "hey, bub". Fuck, he's gorgeous. Touching his arms, I was electrified... a sweet Grease moment.

We ordered too much food, it was all delicious, though the tastiest part was touching hands and feet through the meal. I felt like a creeping vine intertwined with them both. The conversation was easy. Sago and Carob had met up a few times without me, and their grown comradery was evident. Also, S being in a much better place, and in a new relationship, made for a particular ebullience on his part. Frankly, he's glowing.

The one weird bit was created by me... Carob mentioned "so how are things with Ella" and my heart slumped. Things are tricky with her (I've since written her a lengthy e-mail which she said cleared a lot of things up) but it's been making it even harder to have C involved. Sago asked C: "oh so you still keep in touch with Ella" and C replied (with a sweet, almost crushing-on-Ella, face) "well I feel quite fondly towards her"

Carob has been feeling for Ella, since she's been feeling bad. I've been feeling bad for making E feel bad, but doubly bad through guilt raised up by Carob's concern about the situation. Anyways, I initially said to C at dinner "can we talk about Ella later" but then... it kept turning around in my head so I tried to talk about it, and failed... Both the boys were saying "come on, just spit it out, whatever is on your mind." but in the end I apologised for bringing up something that I didn't want to talk more about. The conversation went on from there to other things, but I felt lame.

Walking home with Sago, he asked me if I wanted to talk about what was bothering me. Eventually I cracked my mind open and there was a gush of monologue. He listened, injected some sanity, held me, ah. So good.

Last night, Sago and I invited Carob around to our place for dinner. I was cooking. Food prep was progressing well til C turned up and we got a tad distracted... Fortunately Sago came home soon afterwards, which enabled me to focus on culinary-related kitchen activities. After eating together, I went back to Carob's place. Brief hellos to Ayla and Patch (I've resolved to project platonic vibes to them from now) but no time for long chats as we had a date with his airbed.

Managed to not pop airbed.

This morning, Carob and I met Sago at a cafe for brunch. Ordered three meals and shared them all. I was melting with happiness. Afterwards, we went to the local market and... shopped together. I pointed to a fennel bulb and said "hey Carob, we should try cooking with this sometime." Sago chimed in that his new girlfriend makes a salad with sliced fennel root and orange. I remember seeing a pile of oranges at C's place. We buy fennel and I put it in Carob's bag. Sago and I buy purple carrots, green beans and radishes for salads we're making right now (he's in the kitchen. My turn soon)

Why are we making salads?

Cos we've been invited to share dinner and watch a movie at Sago's girlfriend's house. With her and her husband.

Sweet Lord, I'm beamish.

Hanging out with Carob, every now and then I'd make a joyful squirmy squee noise. "What's up?" C would ask. "Ah, just... the usual. Thinking of how happy I am for Sago." "Compersion, eh" he teased me, once. Yup. Fair diagnosis.

Better sort out my salad cos Sago just gave me a taste of his (chickpea, green beans, cilantro, tamarind) and it's delcious. Fuck. I'm doing soba noodles, king oyster mushrooms, sunflower seeds, radish... Leaving in 30 minutes. Fingers crossed.

[fuchka]

I want to start this story over, with more intentionality. Like I do with many things, I dove into this blog without too much thought of how I would proceed. Since reading other people's narratives, and thinking more about what I want from my own blog, I'd like to make a fresh beginning. I'm going to see how it goes, here, and possibly move it to a new blog at some stage.

One change that I need to 'announce' is new names for Sago and Carob. They will now be Ocean and Grotto respectively. Apologies for any confusion. Hopefully it will be worth it in the long-run.

On the topic of new names, I need one for Ocean's girl, and I'm going with Menrva. Also Bert, for her husband.

I chatted last night with Ocean about him blogging on here. In the past, he's been supportive of poly as a concept but not been seeking out poly-related communing. Now and then, he's gone along with me to poly things, but he hasn't been independently keen. While he's understood the theoretical value of sharing poly perspectives more widely, to help each other navigate these unchartered territories, there haven't been many occasions for him to experience this himself.

Recently, though, he's been supporting Menrva and Bert a bit with poly stuff. They've had an open, DADT relationship so far, but there have been issues. One of the main issues was not having discussed boundaries properly. When Menrva developed feelings for Ocean, she wasn't sure if this was breaking the rules of their (her and Bert's) DADT arrangement or not. This meant she had to breach the DADT to clarify what the open relationship rules actually were.

Luckily, Bert was okay with the growing emotional attachment between her and Ocean. At the moment, Ocean & Menrva's boundaries are: no sleepovers (though they're allowed to have daytime or evening trysts in each other's houses) and no PDA in front of Bert. Both Ocean & Menrva would prefer those boundaries to shift to something more relaxed (especially the sleepover one) but are respecting Bert's pace.

My first dinner with the in-laws (as I'm jokingly calling Menrva+Bert) went well the other night. Both Ocean's and my salads were good. Menrva made a pasta dish, which I'm eating leftovers of now for lunch. Noms. Apparently vibes were a bit awkward for Menrva at dinner, though. Nothing specific was a trigger, just the situation itself brought up emotions she did not expect to feel. Ocean and her are colleagues, so hopefully they can steal some time at work today to chat and unwind ;)

I'm doing okay with the Menrva thing. There've been a few wobbles, but nothing serious. I want lots of hanging out with Ocean, though. Holding, talking and touching. I'm glad he waited til I got back from holiday to tell me about it.

Art playdate at Freya's tomorrow (a friend). Her flatmate is Clay, a guy who I have a casual thing with. May end up sleeping over there. Cough cough. Or going round to Grotto's place (Grotto = artist formerly known as Carob). If I don't see G tomorrow, then will sleep over the day after.

Home with Ocean tonight.

Ah. Will need to sort scheduling soon. If we pencil in some defaults, then confirm it week-by-week, it will probably work out okay.

Things aren't too tricky yet as Menrva can't sleep over at the moment. I may have to make myself scarce from our house if they want to come here sometimes during 'waking hours', though. Awww. Makes me beam to think of them enjoying each other. Boy, is Ocean smitten. He's washing his hair every day cos she likes it fluffy. He did press-ups this morning (never seen that before). And he said he wants to go op-shopping with me to extend his wardrobe (!?) So many things to tease him about. Some may be unrelated to the new relationship, but it's fun to harrass him anyway :)

Ok. I'm gonna do more job seeking, go for a swim, finish making birthday present for Freya (friend who I'm visiting tomorrow) and toast muesli.

[fuchka]

I did it to myself yesterday, but got out of it in the end.

Ocean had organised for a mutual friend of ours to drop by after work. I didn't know what time she was coming around. It was a vague "sometime in the evening."

Before Ocean left for work, I told him not to worry about hurrying home to me. I know that he's juggling work and sneaking time with his new girl during work hours at the moment. (His work is flexible so this is okay, just might mean he has to stay at work later to get things done)

By afternoon, I was pining for Grotto. Hah. Funny how quickly appetites get whet. I don't see him for over two months, and cope okay, but now after just a day I'm feeling withdrawals. I send him a message to this effect. While I'm swimming, he replies to ask - wanna after work beer?

I get out of the pool just after 5pm. I wonder if I should txt or ring Grotto. I decide to text, and leave it a bit more up to chance whether we get in touch or not. I'm not sure what time I'm meant to be home. If I catch up with G, things could get too late... I need to get home before our friend gets there, yada yada.

Anyways, I drag my feet a bit, sort out a few things near the pool, but don't hear back from Grotto. So I walk slowly homewards... still in two minds. Should I ring him? Or wait and see if he gets back to me? I want to see him. But, there's no clarity about what time I'm expected home. Meh. I head home.

About 10 mins after I get home, Grotto rings me. He didn't get my earlier text. Turns out he is drinking with work friends at a bar really close to where I was swimming. He was there when I got out of the pool, and I would have walked right past. Damn. For some reason, just missing each other made me super antsy.

So now I'm restless, at home, waiting for Ocean to get back. In the morning, I'd told him I didn't mind when he got home... so I don't want to ring and bother him in case he's in the middle of something with Menrva (not that he'd pick up anyway, hopefully). I'm really wishing we'd been clearer about plans.

About an hour later, Ocean still not home. Is around 8pm now. Grotto rings me, his voice slick with craft beers and whiskey - "come out come out" he says "I love you". I tell him I'm waiting for O to get home, and our friend.

Anyways anyways, Ocean eventually gets home. (In the meantime, I've released my tension into a slightly emo song. PM me if you wanna hear it!) About half an hour after he gets back, our friend arrives. We have a cuppa tea and chat, but I'm wriggly, I wanna go out, missing Grotto. After our friend leaves, it's late but I can't stay in. Feels like I have unfinished business elsewhere. The plan was to stay at home with Ocean last night, but I needed out... Said this to O, and he was fine with it. Told me to go hang with Grotto. Yay.

Twas nearly midnight by the time I made it to Grotto's. He was snoozing on the couch, his soft face like a sunbeam sleeping. I love him so much. We went to bed, and eventually popped the air mattress (whoops). Well, it was bound to happen. Pre-work breakfast this morning, now home.

Didn't make it back before Ocean left for work, but I'm going to tidy up a bit and finish cooking a few things before I head out again. May be home late. Going to my friend Freya's. She lives with Clay, the guy I've hooked up with a few times in the past. I don't really want to stay the night there, but I tend to lose track of the time and miss the last tram. I'll do my best to stay focused this time. Or, if I do stay over, will get an early tram back so I can meet Ocean back home in the morning.

I'm so glad there are so many times of the day to do things :) A saving grace.

[fuchka]

It's hard to stay open, sometimes. Easier to weave a cocoon about yourself, easier to hibernate, easier to leave the house with a rucksack and walk into the mountains. I'm okay, alone. I really am.

This desire for solitude is often healthy. When I'm touching base, taking time out that I need.

Other times, I feel like I'm escaping something. Hardening my heart. I felt this now and then with Grotto (Carob) and Ella, when they first started going out. Feeling this a bit with Ocean (Sago) and Menrva at the moment.

Yes, I'm happy for them. It's excellent to see him in love, and enjoying exploring this new relationship.

Makes me want to retreat, though. Seek my own company, and not risk the emotion vulnerability their relationship entails for me. This inclination to avoidance is not a good thing, and I challenge myself on it. But... ah. I like spending time with me! It's complex enough relating with myself, let alone other people :p

Is it possible to be a polyamorous hermit? Heh

[fuchka]

What does it feel like for tortoises, inside their shells? Do they open their eyes and hang out by themselves, or do they mostly just retreat to sleep?

Job hunting in a big city is a learning experience. Reminds me a bit of flat hunting. I'm changing my expectations... Seems it's the norm for people not to get back to you unless they want you. Silence = rejection. Feels like a double rejection, not even worth responding to. Thankfully we're not too hungry yet. Can get by on Ocean's salary for the next few months.

I'm missing the easy job situation for me in our home city. I'd been in the same job for over six years (in fact, they are still keeping a place open for me, at the moment) and it's tempting to roll back to my old comforts.

I have to keep reminding myself that our plan at the moment is to be flexible, keep options open, see what takes.

In the meantime, make the most of this time off work.

Staying focused, huh.

Relationship land is a bit tumultuous at the moment. One thing I really need is to tease out some emotions with Ocean. Been finding a few things triggering, and in lieu of having made the time to discuss, I've been taking space. Have a lunch date with him after my dance class this morning. The fact I'm not looking forward to it probably means we've left it too long.

Last night was a major bleh on that front. Building tension resulted in me having to escape a social situation that I really wanted to enjoy. The tension has been growing since Wednesday. Well, probably before that, but my mood was fucked up by Wed morning, and we've had a series of increasingly awkward moments since then. Saturday now. Yeah, definitely waited too long.

Met up with Grotto last night, just needed to unwind. He's a bit concerned about me, said I need to talk to someone. He said something that was quite insightful: that I don't talk that much about the workings inside my head when I'm trying to nut things out. I tend to speak when I know what I feel, or what I want to say. Sometimes, when there's a lot on my mind, I go quiet for ages. Days. It seems to bother people who are close to me, who notice. I don't think that's a problem, as such, until... well... until it is :p

Anyway, dance time! I've been avoiding going for a shower because I have to walk past where Ocean is sleeping. How lame, to be avoiding things so much. And now I'm late... whoops

[fuchka]

Talking with Ocean was excellent, and healing. We met up for lunch, walked through the park, then sat with limbs entwined on a bench and drew a joint picture of the river. I shared the sack of issues in my mind, and he talked about how we was doing. Had coffee and cake afterwards, then parted ways for the evening.

When I got home, Ocean was feeling quite down. Seems his meds may need changing again (gah). He's really tired of dealing with depression. It's as if the clouds went away for a tantalisingly brief time, and now it's grey again. Hoping he'll get an appointment with his doctor early this week.

I find it hard to take it personally, when O is depressed. I felt like maybe he's feeling shit because I'm back, and causing problems for him. It's hard not to think this way, when there's a contemporaneity between me coming home, and him feeling depressed again (after getting better while I was away). But that's a dangerous cycle to buy into. He feels it's chemical, and is going to see if pill change helps. Bleh, poor thing.

I'm not always upbeat about him and Menrva, and I'm not sure why. Her and her husband recently got two rabbits, and are thinking of what to name them, something that matches. Ocean mentioned this to me, and instead of thinking "oooh, what are some names", I felt disinterested.

I don't think it's a good thing to fake interest. I just wish it was... there.

I like them well enough (Menrva and her husband), and I wish them well... They're also very nice, friendly, social, etc etc. Menrva sent cake and chocolates back home with Ocean recently to share with me, for example. So I want to be open and welcoming towards them. Going round to see a movie tonight, and have e-mailed Menrva about catching up for a coffee sometime.

What I feel about Menrva may be similar to what Ocean felt about Grotto, when we first got together. Nothing against him, but not drawn to being friends.

It might be some inherent 'metamour' tension. Or some harshness/stubborness coming to the surface? Not sure.

I think if Ocean and I get enough time and connection together, I'll feel better towards Menrva. Also, if I'm in a good space with things that I'm doing.

[fuchka]

Movie date with Menrva and her husband Bert went well yesterday. Had pizza and chilled at their place with their new rabbits. Rabbits very cute. Ocean and Bert went off to get beers and pizza and Menrva and I hung back playing with the fluffballs. Afterwards, Ocean asked me "so... what did you and Menrva talk about when we were away?" Really? Nothing about you, darling :)

So many things are reminiscent of how it was, in the reverse, when I started seeing Grotto.

This afternoon I caught up with Menrva for coffee (ended up being frozen yoghurt... mine with fresh strawberries, melon and lychee, yummm). Sitting down at the yoghurt place, we talked this and that. Afterwards, she assumed I'd be heading back to see Ocean at work (I hadn't planned to) but I ended up walking back with her anyways. She popped the question "so... how are you finding this?" I had to think awhile before answering.

I initially said "well. In general, I'm happy when other people are happy. So if you both are happy, then I'm good." She looked quite dissatisfied with that, and I quickly added - "of course, that's not the whole story." But, what was the whole story? I started talking about my own headspace at the moment, feeling restless and figuring things out. This is making me have variable moods, and not always being in the most resilient mind-set for dealing with shakes or surprises. In conclusion - the times when things aren't feeling okay is generally directly connected to my personal weather rather than anything specific about her.

Later, she spoke in terms identical to how Ocean and I spoke, way-back-when... She called this an experiment, and an experiment that fails if anyone is not feeling happy. For quite a while, Ocean, Grotto and I talked in those terms about our 'poly' experiment. This is a common experience, I think. Anyway, we tumbled into it and felt we were trying it out... seeing if it worked... unsure of things...

I don't feel like we're experimenting anymore with Grotto. As in, this isn't some trial period. It's working, and we want it to work out.

In early stages of relationships, when you're getting to know everyone involved, it makes a lot of sense to frame what's happening in 'experiment' language. In some ways, the experiment never ends - of course. But I feel a shift happens once you get more clarity of what you want, and what it will take to achieve it.

I'm glad to have spent time with Menrva. She wrote me and said she'd be keen to hang out some more, not because I'm Ocean's other partner, but because she likes me independently as a person. From my perspective, getting to know and like Menrva helps me feel good about the group dynamics. I'm not particularly drawn to her as a friendship I want to grow per se (compared with anyone else I meet) but it's a relationship worthwhile prioritising - to a point - for the sake of good vibes all round. And spending time with people I wouldn't usually spend time with is always good learning, if I have the right attitude about it, and it fits in with whatever else I'm doing.

[fuchka]

I met Ocean early 2006, through similar political circles at university. At the time, I thought it unlikely that I would have a positive sexual experience with a guy, and was not looking to date men. But my heart was snagged by the thrill of conversing with him and I fell in love, fast. An inebriating combination of a heart full of care for the world and a head full of smarts.

One of our early conversations was about non-monogamy. I'd come to realise I didn't need monogamy in relationships. The idea of a partner of mine being with someone else brings a smile to my face (assuming the liaison is a positive one for them) rather than triggers twinges of jealousy.

For his part, he'd thought of love as an expansive thing, one that could well encompass practises beyond monogamy. He shared a poem by a famous Bengali poet, Rabindranath Tagor - "Free Love (http://www.poemhunter.com/poem/free-love/)".

It wasn't long before we were shirking our respective study schedules for lazy afternoons in bed. The love was luscious; it had a divinity to it which has only grown over the years (despite long periods of us being more sensual than sexual with each other). We played with gender and power dynamics. We talked and talked. We travelled, shared community activities, made chai at a peace rally. Walking arm and arm with Ocean, unravelling our thoughts together, is one of the most sustaining things in my life.

After a year or two, we felt sure we wanted to live our lives together. We didn't need a ceremony to prove our commitment to each other, but knew that my parents and his (especially mine) would be more comfortable if we were officially hitched. So in late 2009 we got civilly unioned, and early 2010 we threw a wedding party as we reckoned we may as well celebrate :)

Breaking up is not an option for us, we have decided to avoid that way of thinking. Of course, bizarre things could happen to change this (you always never know, with life) but we're serious about making it work as a couple. We've chosen each other and are still so in love (possibly naively, hah)

I went out for breakfast with him this morning and asked him how it felt having two relationships for the first time (he's been seeing Menrva, his girlfriend, since the start of this month). He smiled and said "it's good". I adore seeing him so happy.

We sipped coffees, played footsie under the table and made eyes at each other. The perfect way to start the day.

[rory]

That is lovely :)

[fuchka]

He's rough, he's gentle, he's careless, he's caring. My body quickens when he touches me on purpose. We milk words from each other. Sometimes I'm his whisky. We've been together since mid-2009 and our relationship has developed from its genesis as a rather dangerous experiment that we were unable to reign ourselves in from to... well... now we're at the serious end, I guess. Things are settled. The final frontiers on the poly-side are: coming out to my parents, sharing living/financial arrangements, kids? Not necessarily places we have to go, but we're floating the questions.

For now, it's enough to be in the same city as each other. I stay over at his apartment a couple of times a week, and tend to see him at some point nearly every day. There's no special effort involved. We want to see each other, and we make the time.

[fuchka]

rory - thanks :)

Ocean's out having a beer with the in-laws (his girlfriend Menrva and her husband Bert). Grotto and I were invited but I decided to stay home instead. Nice to have the house to myself. Have had my father visiting over the weekend and much as I love him, I need a bit of recouperation.

Not just that, though. The five of us caught up around this time last week. Was the first time we'd been together, just us, our current ecosystem. Was pleasant enough. But... I found the elephant in the room really odd.

As Ocean and I walked Grotto home after we'd had drinks with Menrva & Bert, I ranted a wee bit. I wasn't angry, but I was pent up.

Yeah. Okay.

I don't understand Menrva & Bert's DADT arrangement, and while I respect it... it kind of frustrates me.

When we meet up, it's not like I desperately want to discuss with Bert the fact that Ocean is fucking his wife but for this to be a taboo point is an itch begging to be scratched. I don't get it!

Grotto, Ocean and I sit around a table with Menrva and Bert. The only reason we're meeting up at all is because Grotto's dating Menrva, and everyone would like to be friendly and get to know each other. And sure, we're friendly and getting to know each other but we can't bring up anything relating to Grotto and Menrva being a couple or else something (what?) will break. Everyone knows that everyone knows. But no one can say it out loud. Eh?

That was the gist of my rant. Ocean acknowledged that it was "somewhat odd" (I love the way he puts things), but added that it didn't bother him too much because it was simply respecting Bert's wishes. I totally get that, and it was why I kept off the topic when we were all together. But... yeah. I find those vibes to be really strange. Grotto feels the same way. I guess we're finding it hard to empathise.

Ocean kicked me out of the house for the first time yesterday morning :) To be accurate, he sweetly asked me if I wouldn't mind being out by 9am. I was happy to oblige. It's the first time I've needed to make myself scarce because he had a date. So cute! Sometimes I think I'm more excited about this shit than he is. Gotta watch that :p

Both he and Menrva really want the ability to stay the night with each other but it's a current boundary for Bert. He's away for work next week for two nights and it'll be their first sleep over. I really hope that this is a boundary they are able to negotiate going forward, cos Menrva is struggling a bit with feeling that the relationship is real when it's quite stilted. Ocean mentioned missing day-to-day things like going shopping together.

Ah. He's really fallen for her. I got a little bit scared yesterday when I realised how badly he could crash over this. Romance can be so treacherous

[fuchka]

Need to get better at scheduling. It's a bit ad-hoc at the moment and while there've been no serious fuck-ups, some solid intentionality can't hurt.

Spent the night at Grotto's last night without planning to in advance, making it two nights in a row. I hadn't slept over at his for maybe a week before that. It had just happened that way, given my father being in town, but he'd felt the separation.

While we're cuddling, I got a text from Ocean. At the noise of the message coming through, Grotto says "your master's voice". Joking, yes, but it's that wry based-on-a-true-story humour. This was before I'd decided to stay the night (at that point I intended to head back to sleep with Ocean.) But I checked in with Ocean, who didn't mind if I stayed there, so I did.

I had a Skype date with my brother early morning, so I scooted away from Grotto's in time to slip into bed with Ocean for a bit before we needed to officially get up. Ocean e-mailed me later in the day: "I really like the early morning snugs on days to wake up from nights when you've crashed elsewhere :)" He hardly ever requests anything of me unless I press him, so this is a rare insight and something I will definitely keep in mind!

I couldn't help fantasising about how things could work, if we ever ended up living together with Grotto and/or other partners...

But yes, scheduling. Not so much a strict timetable so much as checking in on what people's needs are, and whether we want to set any regular dates. We're pretty easy-going and tend to let things evolve. Though we're relating really well at the moment, I don't want to take it for granted.

Something Grotto, Ocean and I did a couple of years ago was a 'reading group'. Each week, the three of us picked a reading each (an article or chapter from a book or something) and we'd get together over dinner and discuss it. Now we're in the same city again, it would be sweet to re-establish the tradition. Ocean's keen. Will ask Grotto. Maybe Monday nights. Possibly Menrva/Bert could join... though that makes a lot of reading. And it was nice to hang out in our pod of three.

Funny, with the connections growing, each viable molecule still seems to need its own sustenance. It's not enough for the individual romantic dyads to have their fill separately and then the group dynamics sorted by everyone altogether on a big date.

Will end with a couple of sweet moments.

This morning, I was making porridge and coffee while Ocean was getting ready for work. Before he jumped into the shower he ran out to show me drawings that Menrva had done on his belly. A fish around his belly button, and some other doodles. Funnily enough, yesterday I'd drawn various sea creatures on Grotto (on his arms). I've never done this before (draw on someone with ballpoint pen) so the coincidence was cool. I added a bashful tentacle to Menrva's drawing and sent Ocean to work.

Last night, Grotto and I lay in bed snoozing and got to talking about relationships. He said he feels very committed to me, and I feel the same way. What this entails for the future, I have no idea.

"How are we gonna make this work?" I asked, half-dreamily.

Grotto cuddled me and said, "we are making this work." It put me to sleep like a lullaby.

[jennykeck]

thank you for sharing your story it helps to know I am not the only person who dose not have a need for monogamy.

[fuchka]

jennykeck - thanks for your kind words. I like your use of the word "family" :)

Had a beautiful Sunday yesterday. My cousin, Ocean, Grotto, myself and some mutual friends did breakfast together then went to a local music festival. Menrva and Bert were going too and I invited them through Ocean... but he forgot to tell them about breakfast. So they turned up expecting to leave straight away and we were pissing about making crepes and juice and lounging in the "hot tub" (sofas pushed together) and blowing giant bubbles off the balcony with a bubble stick. As they were meeting most people there for the first time, they were understandably a bit overwhelmed. Tried to smooth things over and be hospitable, but the vibes were rough as Menrva was peeved with Ocean for not giving them the right info in the first place.

Turns out we had two people too many in order to share the biggest taxi, anyway, so Menrva & Bert headed to the festival by themselves, and we met up with them later. Apart from that awkwardness, it was a smooth, sunshine-y, peaceful day. I uncharacteristically wore a dress, $10 from the op-shop (which is pretty much the max I pay for an item of clothing) and I felt like summer.

Dancing with Ocean, lazing in Grotto's arms, joining the travelling band for a spell... hell, yeah. I loved being out with friends.

[fuchka]

I don't know what the deal is with Ella. I jumped into the relationship rashly. This was while Grotto and her were still together, towards the end of one of my fleeting visits home.

Why did I ask her to be my girlfriend? A mixture of spontaneity, wanting to be welcoming, and wanting to get to know her better, to be there for her independently, not just via-Grotto. She gave me her hat. At the time, that was enough.

Her attitude to romance (unreserved, spreading arms out wide, "let's do this") begged me to reciprocate. Thing is, I don't know what the fuck I'm doing.

One of the issues I've identified is that I'm not desperately drawn to her sexually. We have good sex, but I don't need it. It's interesting, Grotto felt a similar thing (he said they had "no spark") and is why they broke up. I don't feel the spark either, but I get a sense that Ella and I are sparking past each other, something is lost in translation, and I'm curious to continue, if she is open to it.

My last visit brought up a whole lot of shit around this, and I wrote her a lengthy e-mail at the time unpacking my thoughts. So far (after about a month) she hasn't replied, and I guess I feel a bit off-the-hook about it. We've chatted occasionally, Skyped once, but nothing directly on how she feels about how I feel. I told her she could take her time, and I didn't want to put pressure on her. But I reckon it's time for a direct "what's the deal, yo?"

I have generally eschewed labels on relationships. But this long-distance undefined thing is surprisingly draining. I care about her and don't want to be a bad thing in her life. I'm fairly good at adjusting my own position vis-a-vis another person in order for them to not be a bad thing in my life... but I don't want to use anyone.

Ella and I talk in very different ways. She doesn't mind thinking in terms of duty and responsibility. Giving people what they're "owed". I act more on my feelings in a situation. I give because I want to give. I do take time to contemplate morals, duties etc, in general, but in a particular situation it boils down to my gut feeling, I think.

Point being, we have much to learn about each other.

I was reading some things yesterday about Boston marriages / romantic friendships. Made me think about my own proclivities. Much as I love good sex, I love it in the context of touch and conversation and mutual support and helping each other grow good things (in the main). The raw animalistic pleasure of sex catches me beautifully with some people, but it's not something I seek out. And it has to work with the rest of my life. Fucking all the time is like ice cream all the time - I don't want it. Decadence is a sometimes food.

I met someone recently who had an image of Ganesh on his wall. He said it was "to remove barriers to pleasure". I wasn't attracted to him, and I was ok with that non-attraction, but it made me consider the barriers I may put up to pleasure. Puritanism/guilt associated with my Catholic upbringing? I dunno. Much of what turns me on in the world is offering myself up in useful ways, whatever that may be. Being the best me. Being just the thing someone needs. Or being by myself, or somewhere else, if you don't need me.

[rory]

Thoughts I had (you don't need to answer here if you don't feel like it). :) How do you feel about Ella? Is there love? Or something that could be going that way? What kind of things do you like about her? You had a specific situation prompt you to start the relationship; what kind of reasons are there to continue it?

[fuchka]

Thanks rory. Very pertinent questions. What attracts me to Ella is our shared interests (writing, music, general creativity, politics, community-building, cooking, exploring the outdoors), her hilarious and loving nature, and also how she's different from me in ways that are complementary and/or that I can learn from (e.g. coming from a staunch atheistic background; being slow-paced and considered in her actions; having a straight-up, uncomplicated sex drive; cultivating a simple social life of a few, close friends and a good relationship with her parents.)

These attractions of course don't mean that a close romantic relationship is right for us right now, especially with the long distance factor. On reflection, I've really got too much I'd like to prioritise above making this work (harsh, but true). I'm going to write to her and suggest we be intimate correspondents / pen pals for the next wee while. It'll be a good, proper letter and if I'm understanding her well enough, it'll be as much a relief to her as it will be to me.

Fuck, I'm hard work eh. Sometimes I realise how serious a person I come across as. Oh wellz :)

Other news from across the ecosystem:

- Ocean had his first sleepover at Menrva's last week, when her husband was out of town for work. Their DADT arrangement meant that Menrva didn't tell Bert about it in advance, but then she felt odd when txting him through the night and the next morning (given Ocean was still there) so she eventually said something about watching a movie with Ocean til the wee hours, and him staying over "because it got too late". This wasn't the exact truth, as the sleepover had been planned weeks in advance (as soon as they knew Bert would be away), but I suppose it was her way of making a compromise between Bert's desire to know nothing and her desire to check in honestly.

Ah, seriously... I find DADT so confusing! Apparently Bert keeps repeating that he really doesn't want to know any details. Menrva (understandably) wants to share some things with him (esp when it comes to clarifying boundaries I imagine), and Ocean is fairly mellow in the middle, respecting Bert while caring for Menrva. If you take someone's DADT at face value (that they are really ok as long as you keep the lid on it) it's not that problematic. It takes a lot of care and trust, though, I imagine. I wish them well, while thinking to myself "surely it would be easier if you talked about things?"

It's really none of my business, as not my direct relationship, but I do find it odd and a tad incomprehensible. I guess it's because I don't feel the desire for a DADT, in fact, I think it would frustrate me to no end. But Ocean's relaxed about it, which is all that matters. Grotto and I, however, are both befuddled re: their paper-thin veneer of monogamy, and occasionally wanna punch a hole in it. Luckily it's not our shit to deal with :)

- I mentioned to Grotto recently that a lot of his friends treat me as his girlfriend and behave as if we were an isolated couple. While they mostly know about Ocean, he seems not to be conceptually included as part of what works in our relationship (if that makes sense) e.g. doesn't get invited to some things even when he's friends with some of the people going (cos now I'm there as Grotto's partner). This mostly grates in situations when, if Grotto wasn't here, Ocean and I may have been invited as a couple in our own right.

I don't think it's malicious or thoughtless. It's possibly simply that people are quite used to dealing with couples, but not with poly dynamics. Having a netful of mutual friends makes navigating this stuff trickier than usual. Anyway, Grotto said that he'd be more considerate of inviting Ocean to things so it's more obvious that we're comfortable socialising together.

Well. Yesterday, one of Grotto's work colleagues was throwing a dinner party with Grotto (they were having a cook-off) and Grotto asked if it was okay if Ocean could come as well as me. That was really sweet of him, and I loved being there with them both. I realised this is an important aspect for me, to feel less disparate between different social circles.

- Finally, babies! We've had the discussion on and off. Not trying for kids yet but it's something on the horizon in the next 2-5 years. What's new is my own clarity around the situation, and sounding this off to both Ocean and Grotto. In the right environment, if we were all ready, I would be open to having kids with either Ocean or Grotto. For practical reasons, it would be better to try with Ocean first, esp as the two of us have more confidence about being compatible in day-to-day domestic situations, and have a stronger web of family support (not essential, but will make things so much easier!)

I asked Grotto, if things end up going that way, whether he could see this as a parental role for all three of us. I.e. if Ocean and I had a child, if he could be a dad more than an uncle. Cos then, if we all feel that works out, we may feel more ready to approach trying for a kid the two of us (Grotto and me). He liked the sound of that (yay).

I know things with children are notoriously unplannable, and even if you try for children, this may not happen. Also, I'm not 100% sure I want to have children at all. I'm sometimes into it, and sometimes put off by the brutal reality :) I suspect I'll want to, though, I can feel the cluckiness building, and also my thoughts winding that way... so I'm just preparing for it, in case that's what we all want to do.

Ooooh a PS. Not sure if I mentioned this in my blog before (and, really, my narrative is so scatty I wouldn't expect anyone to be following even if I had, anyway!) A few months ago, I asked Grotto if he'd marry me. Not sure how it will work, obviously, and I don't mean any kind of traditional marriage, it was more the sentiment of life commitment. He said yes. Anything public is a long way off yet (years, I imagine!) but my desire for growing old with him is something settled in my heart. This is no longer any more of an experiment than my relationship with Ocean. It's working, we're good, and I want to cultivate this in my life, for the long haul.

[Octopus]

love your way of writing and seeing situations, I think we're quite similar in some ways.
Great to hear all the good news (woah, babies and marriage!) :)

[fuchka]

Octopus - thanks for your kind words :) I'm glad you identify some like-mindedness... it's comforting to meet kindred spirits. Re: the big issues - oh yeah, not happening anytime soon, but it's been good to talk about some possible futures.

Ocean's contract ends soon. Maybe as soon as end-Dec, but most likely closer to Easter. He's hopefully getting clarification around that this week or next, and meanwhile I'm job hunting in earnest. Looking for something that will support us staying here in our new city for at least another year.

It was a hard decision to come to as I still have a couple of job offers open at home. If it was just me, personally, I'd go back to our old city. I have job security there, and it's easy for me to pursue many of my interests. It's a smaller place, so the living is cheaper, especially as I have a very inexpensive place to stay. But. We're gonna try to make it work here in this big, expensive city :) It's a challenge, and I think it'll be good for us both personally and professionally.

It staves off any major long distance, too. Menrva's based here for the next few years and probably Grotto too. Actually, Grotto's dropped a few comments to suggest he's not thinking of moving back to our home city anytime soon. Maybe never. (!) Well. A bridge to cross when we get to it.

We have our current apartment til Easter, and Grotto's apartment's lease runs out at a similar time. There's a possibility of shared living after that, if it'll make things work. We'll see.

Other things?

Menrva and Ocean have organised a Christmas picnic for their work colleagues. I had a squee when I got the invite as it listed them both as contact people. Cute. They aren't out at work but, hmm. I suspect a few people have their suspicions!

Menrva's really concerned that being out would affect her employment, though. Ocean is too, to a lesser extent. That sucks. I'm not sure what the fear is based on. I know some of my work colleagues may think I was strange, or whorish, if they knew I wasn't monogamous but I didn't worry I'd lose my job over it (unless they though I was fucking about in work time... maybe that's it actually, as Menrva & Ocean are colleagues. Heh)

Anyway, given their concerns, Ocean said he'd like Grotto to come to the picnic, but he's not sure of us appearing as a couple. This put me off a bit. I'd almost rather not have Grotto there at all, to having him there but us feigning a platonic relationship. I think my emotions are getting a bit twisted up, though, cos it's a fair enough request for Menrva/Ocean to want to limit who they are 'out' to. I reckon I'm weirdly experiencing this as an extension of their DADT arrangement onto me (and I know it's got little to do with that).

Maybe I just don't understand their boundaries, and think they sometimes draw the lines in incomprehensible places, which triggers a desire to scribble my rainbow crayons outside their lines just to prove it won't break anything. Kinda childish of me. I need to accept their limits at face value in this case. It's up to them if they want to be risk-averse with their colleagues.

Unfortunately I forwarded the picnic invite to Grotto without clarification (it said "Friends welcome" and I assumed it'd be cool if he came) so will have to chat with him about Ocean's concerns. I think Grotto and I value and enjoy being out to people, and it's not something we'd give up lightly. However in particular contexts, to respect other people's boundaries/fears, we could be discrete. Guess it's just something we wouldn't wanna make a habit of.

Well. I better get back to my tasks. Need to finish up before Grotto gets here :) Ocean's heading out after work for dinner and drinks so I have the place to myself. I recently realised (on a rare occasion when Grotto's flatmates were out, and the two of us were home alone at his place) how infrequently we have time to hang out at home with no one else around. I checked in with Ocean to confirm that he'd be out and we'd have the place to ourselves. It's funny how hard it was, to ask a partner you co-habit with to make themselves scarce. It helps that Ocean's asked this of me a few times - either to have Menrva over, or to get some time out by himself. Still, it felt odd to effectively ban someone from their own house, even for a short time.

No guilt, though. Just anticipation ;) And realising I have to get a lot done before Grotto gets here, whoops! This post was longer than I intended.

[fuchka]

Grotto took me out to dinner last night. Delicious food and conversation. We wandered around town for a bit afterwards, noted a few places to try out for food another time, had a couple of cocktails and rolled back to his place. Found ourselves home alone briefly, and took advantage of it :) Fell asleep as two spoons. Whenever I wake up next to him, it's a tiny, exquisite surprise. We kissed and fucked each other good morning. Breakfast, four coffees, two cigarettes (both his) then I walked him to work. In his words: "good to spend time."

Ocean and I are long overdue a date night. We've had an unrelenting stream of visitors (three more this weekend, staying for four-five days) but have a date pending for after that. It's a high priority for both of us.

It's Menrva's birthday tomorrow, and Ocean's been trying to finish making a present for her so has been reluctant to being diverted. I think he's hit a block though. He was planning to do the bulk of the work last night (while I was out with Grotto) but it's barely started. I know how frustrating that is, to want and need to get something done, but for whatever reason not having the energy or inspiration for it. I have Christmas presents to make, so hopefully can inspire him by working side-by-side tonight.

In the meantime, I'm making a birthday present for him, as his birthday is the day after tomorrow :) Menrva and he are having a shared birthday dinner that night. Grotto wasn't invited as Menrva's supervisor will be there. Apparently her supervisor knows that Menrva is in an open relationship, and also that she spends a lot of time with Ocean. If it's obvious that Ocean's also in an open relationship (by Grotto being there) then they may connect the dots. Ah, closets. I don't find it too claustrophobic, though. I have Narnia in mine ;)

[fuchka]

Spent the day with Ocean yesterday on his birthday. Made him a breakfast with walnuts in everything, cos he's always putting walnuts in food these days. Was delish :) Menrva came over in the morning to wish him happy birthday... She'd baked him a cake! She often visits with Bert in tow, but yesterday it was just her which was nice for a change. Ocean and her kissed and cuddled for a bit while I finished up in the kitchen. We sang happy birthday, he cut the cake, it was good! I am unskilled in baking so I appreciate people in my social circle who whip things together in the oven.

Soon after Menrva left, Grotto rang Ocean to wish him happy birthday. I didn't ask or remind him to do so, and it was really sweet of him. Functionality is so, so good :D

During the day, Ocean and I headed out to a cultural festival at a nearby reserve. The weather was perfect - somehow both warm and cool at the same time. Lazy Sunday afternoon, good music. Yup.

Dinner with Menrva, Bert and a few mutual friends. The table was a rectangle so it wasn't the best for talking with everyone. I was sitting on one end, and Menrva at the other, so Ocean changed seats a couple of times during the dinner in order to circulate.

At one point, Menrva posed with him for a picture. Bert took it. Ocean was very confused as to how to act, though Menrva was quite cuddly! It's a cute pic, but you can tell he's unsure of what to do, both in front of the work colleague and also Bert (given their DADT which is seeming less of a reality the more they spend time together... there have been a few occasions sitting outside at social events recently where Menrva's lying curled up between Ocean & Bert.)

Things in the main are excellent. Re: Ocean & Menrva, I have moments now and then of feeling a teensy bit vile/vindictive? Not sure the best word to describe. But it feels like I'm choosing to take offence, in a passive-aggressive or self-sabotage-y way. It's usually over a tiny thing but it hangs heavy emotionally. An example: yesterday at dinner, Ocean asked me if I wanted to share a particular dessert with him. I said, sure, that sounds good, and added that I was probably going to get some ice cream too if he wanted to share that. After that, he moved to the other end of the table to chat with Bert, Menrva etc. When desserts came, I noticed he'd ordered something else (not something I had wanted to try, but ok). We had a quick back & forth across the table (me: "Oh, you got that?" him: "yeah I changed my mind." me: "Ah, ok") and went back to our respective conversations. My ice cream was good and I'm not even really that into desserts, so I was satisfied with the status quo. But... Menrva and he started sharing his dessert, and were chatting between themselves... and I felt that jealous twinge. Jesus, am I really that petty? I felt it simmering inside me, and it wasn't even that I particularly wanted to try the dessert, it was almost like I was attracted to the excuse (however small) to be jealous.

I put it down to Ocean and I needing a proper date, with time to tease out emotions, talk and fuck, pretty much. We've got visitors coming over this evening for a few days. After they leave, we schedule some playtime asap - yay!

Menrva and Bert head off in about 10 days, for six weeks. Looking forward to the space there too, spending time with Ocean, shoring up ourselves.

Hope to catch Grotto for lunch today (before visitors get here) because it might be a while before I can see him properly. Argh, being busy. I'm glad it's no chore to make time for Ocean or Grotto, though. It's what I want.

Still haven't written The Letter to Ella. Gotta do that before I blog again here, seriously.

[Octopus]

But it feels like I'm choosing to take offence, in a passive-aggressive or self-sabotage-y way. It's usually over a tiny thing ....
it wasn't even that I particularly wanted to try the dessert, it was almost like I was attracted to the excuse (however small) to be jealous.
this really resonated with me. I do this too, sometimes.
why do we feel the need to sabotage ourselves? :confused:

[JaneQSmythe]

Ah, closets. I don't find it too claustrophobic, though. I have Narnia in mine ;)

You made me smile today :D - Thank you!

It seems as though you are more bemused than bothered by the DADT policy in place in your metamour's relationship. It also seems as though Bert is probably comfortable, or becoming so, with information that he "knows" but doesn't want to verbalize yet? Maybe, if work-folks/family/etc. are more of an issue he is actually looking more for some sort of "plausible deniability" and a filter against "Too Much Information"?

JaneQ

[rory]

An example: yesterday at dinner, Ocean asked me if I wanted to share a particular dessert with him. I said, sure, that sounds good, and added that I was probably going to get some ice cream too if he wanted to share that. After that, he moved to the other end of the table to chat with Bert, Menrva etc. When desserts came, I noticed he'd ordered something else (not something I had wanted to try, but ok). We had a quick back & forth across the table (me: "Oh, you got that?" him: "yeah I changed my mind." me: "Ah, ok") and went back to our respective conversations. My ice cream was good and I'm not even really that into desserts, so I was satisfied with the status quo. But... Menrva and he started sharing his dessert, and were chatting between themselves... and I felt that jealous twinge. Jesus, am I really that petty? I felt it simmering inside me, and it wasn't even that I particularly wanted to try the dessert, it was almost like I was attracted to the excuse (however small) to be jealous.

Hmm. This made me think. I agree with you that the concrete thing - dessert - is probably not a big deal. Still, I can see how that situation would be one where it is totally reasonable to have some confusion/jealousy. I mean, it does come across like he first suggests something to you (his idea!) and then doesn't even bother to let you know he's decided to do it with her instead. Now I am sure this is not how he meant it, just a small communication/consideration fail. However, I don't think it would hurt for you to ask about it, might make you feel better to hear it from him. :)

I reckon I'm weirdly experiencing this as an extension of their DADT arrangement onto me (and I know it's got little to do with that).

You already say you are aware of the fact that it's not connected. Just wanted to say, this kind of thing is something I would be vary of. It is easy to (emotionally) use something we don't understand as a scapegoat for something else. Do you think you could have a chat with Menrva and see if you could try to get an understanding of where the boundaries come from? :) Not that you still need to agree with them, but maybe seeing what is behind them would create some understanding as to why they choose to have them.

[fuchka]

Octopus - it's always comforting when something resonates with other people, thanks for your message :) I don't know where self-sabotage comes from, but in the context of relationships, one of my favourite movies: The Price of Milk. It's a NZ film, so may not be easily available in other places, but really worth tracking down if you can.

Jane - yup, you're right. I'm growing to understand things more on their terms. It's actually been beautiful to watch the reality of "DADT" unfold for them. Still no confronting conversations but Ocean's stayed over at the in-laws, Bert occasionally makes himself scarce for the two of them to have alone time. In a way they're dealing with the physical reality first, rather than discussing the conceptual things... Hey, if it works, all power to them.

rory - I hear what you're saying. Talking with Menrva about the DADT this is a great idea and one that's on my to-do list for next time we catch up the two of us. One thing I left off about my dessert story was that, five minutes after those emotions welled up for me, Ocean looked across the table and asked me if I wanted to share some of his. He had obviously taking it for granted that things were casual enough that he could be free to move around the table and change ideas re: food. Which, given our usual dynamics, made perfect sense. In fact, for me, when a partner trusts our connection enough to rely on it to feel relaxed about doing risky things (however simple) is something I really value. That gesture (of offering me the dessert) reminded me that I wasn't unvalued or forgotten but just "taken for granted" in the best sense. It broke through the blech I'd been feeling instantly.

[fuchka]

So I decided not to blog here until I sorted things out with Ella. I kinda have and kinda haven't. I wrote The Letter (or at least A Letter) but haven't posted it. I don't think it's saying enough yet. Ah, crud. I feel like I've got gumboots stuck in mud over this. It's effortful and I don't even know why. We're long-distance and we don't have the juice to get the engine started.

Have had some conversations with her online, including Skype a couple of times. It's been pleasant enough, but there's this thing... I guess, I really need to know how exactly it makes her feel that I don't have a sex drive as such for her. I enjoy sex with her but I don't need it, maybe? Well, touching her doesn't set me on fire. We're not that kind of flint together. We're the wrong sticks rubbing the wrong way if we plan to get the water boiled. Christ... how did I get here? The things I love about Ella are not things that I need to explore in a sexual context. Add to that, long distance, and, well, I'm left with a puddle of hmm.

The good news (maybe?) is she's here, tomorrow. Visiting family for Christmas/New Year. Grotto and I are taking her out for a picnic in the afternoon (I'm making sangria) and, yeah. We had really hot threesomes and I'm feeling like we'll end up tumbling into bed. Hopefully somewhere in all that I can get some kind of clarity with what the fuck is going on. I'd rather have no expectations on our relationship (Ella's and mine) apart from friendship/pen pals/casual sex... and probably not really the latter, cos I don't usually seek that out with anyone, and in any case, long-distance.

Rewind to the awkwardness of my last visit, Ella said "I wanna make love to you"... it was really sweet, but something didn't connect for me. I think it's the way she behaves sexually makes me feel like she has a different shape to me in that respect. I don't get it, I don't get it, waaah! :p Hopefully after our weekend meet-up/tryst all will be worked out. I think I need a pre-conversation about this with Grotto so he knows where I'm at. I'm in charge of the picnic. Ella said she's "looking forward to submitting to my plans". Ok, let me be honest, that turned me on. Grotto said "me too". Mm. This could be the best break-up sex ever ;)

On the other hand, I could be a callous bitch. I'm kind of assuming Ella doesn't have her heart on a plate for me. It's hard to tell. We're... crumbs. Really. Okay, I'm circling back to where I began with this. Time to move on.

Updates:

* Bert & Menrva are away overseas for six weeks. M & Ocean missing each other a bit, but chatting and Skyping when they can. We have the keys to their apartment and it's been great to have access when we're that side of town, or have wanted time apart. Also, internet was down at our place for about a week, and I appreciated being able to use theirs. Actually have been meaning to write and thank them for that, must make sure I do that.

* Grotto's fallen, hard, for this smokin hawt chick Bijou. She really likes him too but doesn't want a serious relationship at the moment, for various reasons. G doesn't know quite how to take that and is feeling rather grazed... They're taking it as casually as possible for now.

I dig her, we've made out a few times. She's sincerely voyeuristic and I think it's only a matter of time before we see what it's like to make one warm pool with our two/three naked bodies. I'm in no rush though. Have plenty of other things I wanna do with my days and nights :)

* Grotto & I had a heated confrontation about a tendency of mine that was causing him a lot of hurt. It probably deserves its own post. Actually, yeah, it does. *flags for later*

* Holidays!!! Ocean and I are going camping for a week at a music festival. We leave in the evening on the 25th. Hoping to get the practicalities sorted by tomorrow lunchtime so the lead-up isn't so hectic. I have some family obeisance on Christmas day which needs to be worked around spending time with Grotto before O & I make our evening flight. Here's hoping

[fuchka]

One thing I forgot to mention... we had our first +2 at Grotto's work Xmas party tonight! It was pretty special, though nothing formal. Grotto had work drinks tonight while Ocean & I had planned a date for the two of us, making Mayan hot chocolates, chillin & cuddling at home.

I then get a call from Grotto after work asking what I was doing, if I wanted to join his work drinks. I said I had plans with Ocean, but we might both like to come if O would he be invited too? A smooth word to his boss and snap, a +2. Ocean was down for it, so we waltzed in soon afterwards and were introduced to everyone. Some people had no idea of the poly situation, including G's boss, which made things quite beautifully hilarious.

I know his boss, we've met a handful of times, and we have a good rapport. Apparently the conversation with him earlier had gone something like this.

Grotto: "Hey, mind if my girlfriend and her husband come over?"
His boss: "Ah, sure... Ok. I think it's probably best if I ask no more questions."

Ocean & I are friends with quite a few of Grotto's colleagues so it was super comfortable being there. The inner circle made some toasts to the company's diversity policy :p It took a while to get Grotto's boss to meet my eye though. First time I said hello, he slipped his gaze away as if he wasn't sure how to relate to me in this context. But Grotto and I pounced on him later, and did the whole introduction of Ocean thing, and all was well. He bought Ocean and me drinks and, yeah, it was heart-warming.

Grotto said he was really glad we both came, and that it felt good to be family the way we are.

I felt a smidgen greedy to have a +2 - it's not something I'd expect as a rule because it does make sense to limit people's dates to things like weddings, office events etc where the food/drinks are being paid for. But occasionally squeezing free booze and an outing for the three of us on the backs of a friendly boss and/or the company's diversity policy? Oh yeah.

[nycindie]

Apparently the conversation with him earlier had gone something like this.

Grotto: "Hey, mind if my girlfriend and her husband come over?"
His boss: "Ah, sure... Ok. I think it's probably best if I ask no more questions."


LOL. That's priceless! :D

[rory]

^totally!!

It is nice to read about everything that's going on for you, fuchka. :)

[fuchka]

Just before Christmas, Ella came to visit relatives in our new city. I had suggested an afternoon picnic catch up with Grotto and myself, make sangria and see where the night leads. Was too hot to head out in the end, so the three of us stayed at my place drinking and chatting. At one point, Ella and I were by ourselves outside, and she checked in with me to clarify how I was feeling re: sex with her, and whether I'd be comfortable with Grotto joining in. I said I was feeling cool about either (true at the time).

We snuggled a bit and then returned inside (Grotto hates the heat and was bathing in the air conditioning). I went to get something in the kitchen, and while I was there, Grotto and Ella started making out. It was nice to hear, and I stayed in the kitchen for a bit, just listening to them. After a while, they called out for me and I said I was okay, and would join them at some point.

In a bit, though, my emotions turned. I realised I didn't really know what was going on between Grotto and Ella... They ended their relationship fairly amicably but still I know there were some rough emotions. Last time we were in the same place, for example, Ella just wanted to be with me, not Grotto as well (they were recently broken up then). I felt like giving them space to reconnect, and... I dunno. Get out of their way.

This mood made me want to go outside to the garden. They have noisy sex so that wasn't far enough :) I went for a walk and accidentally locked myself out. Eventually I needed their help to get back into the house. At that point, they both were worried as to how I was feeling. I said I didn't feel drawn to join in, and that maybe it would be more fun if the two of them headed back to Grotto's place.

Ella laid down her preferences, which were (1) hang out with me and Grotto, (2) hang out just with me, or (3) go back to Grotto's place without me. Pretty much she didn't mind what we did but she wanted to spend time with me. Wow, ok. I said, we should hang out, maybe go out and do something. Grotto took a nap, while Ella and I checked online for any free things of interest happening in the city. There didn't seem to be much, but as we parried back and forth we ended up weaseling our bodies around each other and... yeah.

Fast forward eight hours later, Grotto's asleep again, Ella's snoozing in his arms, I'm making a late night dinner. Everyone's still naked of course :p The heat, the heat. Wake Grotto up, we all eat, then I walk Ella back to where she's staying (a 45 min walk each way). At 2amish it's really pleasant. We get a chance to talk, and I realise that she gets me! She gets that I want to just get to know her better, and that I'd sometimes rather hang out and talk rather than have sex. This had been a block for us before, and had been hard for her to understand but she doesn't just hear me... she really feels it. It was a deep relief. I love her. (Oh, and this time, while fucking she and I did something that was a first for me, a very intense experience... I was glad that it was her, and I said so.)

We didn't talk about labels (girlfriend/not)... I'm shitty at those. She did say that she didn't want to be in a romantic relationship with Grotto anymore. And how we were talking implied that she did want one with me. That's enough clarity for me.

Another day, another story. Made a threesome faux-pas with Grotto and Ocean but we just rolled with it - yay! I was in the mood to hang out with three of us, so invited Grotto around to spend the day... Didn't get around to telling Ocean my idea or plans til the morning itself. He was fine with it, though. It wouldn't have been a big problem if not, but Ocean may have felt like leaving the house if he wasn't into spending time with Grotto & me).

We watched some tv shows we'd been getting into recently, ordered pizza, had a few drinks. I was getting pretty cosy, and as frequently happens, Grotto was okay with that developing into something physical between the three of us, whereas Ocean was more reticent. Instead of fretting about it, I just went with the flow which seemed to work ok. It meant Ocean probably had to make more of an effort to put up boundaries himself, rather than me picking up on his vibes to guess what he was feeling and modulating myself to that. I like that our triad dyamics seem mature enough that we can be more relaxed and things won't break.

We've got a small apartment, but there's a sofa bed that can sleep two and Grotto crashed there. I ended up slipping from one bed to the other. In the morning I asked Ocean if Grotto could come into bed with the two of us for a cuddle. He said okay, and I passed that on to Grotto. A bit later, Grotto came in and was the big spoon, with me in the middle and Ocean on the inside. Before long, things got a bit cheeky between Grotto and me, and Ocean got out of bed and left the room. I apologised immediately but didn't get much of a response. Ah, whoops... that's when I realised Ocean wanted more sleep. He's grumpy in the morning if he is woken up before he's ready.

Later, when Ocean wasn't grumpy from the rude awakening, I had a proper conversation. Grotto had said he wasn't sure what the boundaries were, and he was just going with it. I had felt much the same way. I promised Ocean that if there's ever a next time, we'd make sure to be clear on what was or was not on the cards. "Cuddling in bed" is a bit too broad :p After getting agreement on that, there was no further issue. I'm so so happy to be at this point.

Meanwhile, Grotto visited our home town for Christmas/New Year and just got back late last night. I spent the night and morning with him, and about an hour after I left his place, Bijou (his new flame) was due around :) Bijou, Ocean, myself and a couple of other friends (Patch & Ayla) pitched in to organise to get Grotto a combined Christmas present, something he really needed. It was there as a surprise for when he got back. He was really impressed by the sneaky organisation :p Hehe. I love our loving.

A few more stories I want to share, but Ocean & I gotta get ready to go to a friend's wedding! It's a bit of an informal job interview for him as there will be a few people there who are on a panel to interview him for a job next month. Best get tidied up! Happy 2013 everyone

[rory]

Ah, lovely to read such happy things, and especially to hear the good news between you and Ella. Communication ftw! :)

[fuchka]

rory - It's lovely to have such happy things happening :) Thanks for your replies. Sounds like you had a great NY too! Yeah, I'm very glad to get things feeling better around Ella. Unfinished business can be pretty draining.

Wedding last night was fun! One of the chosen readings was an excerpt from some US law on same-sex marriages (can't remember what, I think it may have been a quote from the Goodridge (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Goodridge_v._Department_of_Public_Health) case in MA). This sparked a conversation at the reception, with a cousin of the bride, about the function of marriage. I brought up the complication of what marriage could mean in non-monogamous relationships, too, and his eyes glazed over a bit. I realised it would be easier to make it personal instead of hypothetical, so I started talking about my own situation. Was useful as a case study, and made for a really good discussion.

Later, I saw him having a lengthy tete-a-tete with Ocean, and at the end of the night the bride mentioned that she had thought the two of us would get along with her cousin, and would arrange a meal to catch up with him again at some point. I enjoy making friends with people who both Ocean & get along with, and I especially liked starting off on the right foot with him re: being out as poly... If people meet Ocean & I as a couple, it's usually a while (if at all) before that comes up.

Christmas this year was great. Could have been tricky, but ended up wonderful. I read some advice elsewhere on this forum, to discuss expectations for celebrations that are important to you (e.g. Thanksgiving) well in advance, months even, to avoid unnecessary stress. I like this idea and have stored it for the future!

Unless I'm visiting my parents (who live overseas) I tend to have a relaxed Christmas, spending the day hanging out with Ocean, family and/or friends. This year, Grotto was initially planning to make it back to our home city for Christmas, but the cost of flights meant he actually left on Boxing Day. So. He was here for Christmas and wanted to see me on Christmas Day.

But I had a couple of family commitments. My aunt has recently come out of 10 year relationship and wanted to spend Christmas together. She lives a wee while out of town, and I knew she'd love if we were there for Christmas eve and stayed the night. My uncle (her brother) is in a nursing home so we decided to visit him together on Christmas Day itself. As Ocean & I were flying out in the evening (to go camping at a festival over New Years), I wasn't sure if I'd have time to see Grotto on the 25th.

I told him this, and he was sad about it. He really wanted to see if we could make time. I suggested that he come to my aunt's place too and stay the night with us. I'm out to her, we're pretty close and she's really non-judgmental. She's met Grotto, and always invites him to things when she invites Ocean & me. Given how far she is out of town, Grotto wasn't sure about coming but said he'd think about it. We left it at that.

A few days later, he said he'd come! My aunt was really excited :) Okay, I was too. She came into the city on Christmas eve at night and picked us all up. Back at her place, we had a cheese platter, champagne, strawberries, watched shitty Santa movies, had a spa, opened presents at midnight (my aunt got Grotto something he loved, a great present, he wasn't expecting that and was quite touched.)

There is just one spare room at my aunt's, so we'd prepared by having a discussion about sleeping expectations. Didn't want a repeat of the other day. Ocean said that three in the bed was okay if it was just sleeping. If Grotto and I wanted to fool around we'd use the couch (or elsewhere, heh.)

Ocean went to bed early as he was tired. Grotto and I stayed up, fucked about in the spa, passed out by accident on the couch around 3am. I woke up a couple of hours later, and we slipped into bed with Ocean. So cosy, so good! We call it a sleepy sandwich :)

In the morning, Grotto made his signature brunch (eggs benedict) for the four of us. I got up and helped while Ocean slept in. We made mimosas, took our time over food, then played Scrabble (Ocean just beat Grotto) before going to visit my uncle. He'd organised food for us, was very sweet. We're not out to him about Grotto, but he knew he was a friend of ours and didn't have any family here, so it didn't need explaining. My aunt dropped the three of us back to the city, then Ocean & I rushed to get to the airport in time (the drive back took longer than expected) while Grotto went home to get spruced up for a Xmas party at Bijou's flat that night.

Being with both Ocean and Grotto for Christmas was very special. I'd recently heard this quote, which is cheesy but I like it - "the best Christmas present is the presence of family & friends wrapped up in each other". That's very true for me. That said, for the first time, Ocean got me a Christmas present! I was surprised, as we don't usually do presents (and I hadn't got him anything). He admitted that he thought he should since he had got Menrva something. Hah. Grotto had been saying the same thing to me earlier in the week (as he'd got Bijou a present) and I assured him that he didn't have to get me one to balance it out. I don't like the thought of anyone stressing about what to get me as a present. Spending time on each other is what I love the most.

A couple of quick snippets to round off the holiday tales:

- As Ocean & I were hurrying to get organised for the airport, I got a message from Ella: could she, her brother & niece stay at our place? Turns out things weren't so fun at her other brother's place (who lives here). I said, sure, I'd leave the keys in the letterbox. They apparently had a grand time, and left the day before we got back. Our apartment is now studded with cute artificats of their visit - drawings on the wall, exquisite corpse (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exquisite_corpse) stories under the sofa, a packet of sparklers on a side table. I'm glad we could help them out, and I liked the connection of Ella being here while I was away.

- Camping over New Years with Ocean was excellent! A perfect way to round off the year, and refocus. The festival was packed with things we wanted to do and see. Of the offerings on NY eve, there was one show I really wanted to go to, a tribute to a early 20th C songwriter... I told Ocean I was close to non-negotiable on that, and he was surprised. He was a fan too but had no idea I was into that person's music. A blissful way to discover another common interest :) We saw the sunrise on 1st Jan and dozed for most of the day. 2nd Jan was our wedding anniversary (three years this year) and we treated ourselves to a fancy brunch before making our way home.

[fuchka]

I had an epiphany yesterday. I'm not good at articulating my desires, when they involve other people. General desires aren't problematic, e.g. "I want to spend more time with you". But when it's specific, like "I want to see you tonight, I'd like to walk home together, cuddle and talk for a bit, then cook dinner, then paint together, then roll around in bed til we fall asleep, then wake up in the morning with the sun, then fuck, then I make coffee and cook eggs for breakfast and then we both get ready to face the day's tasks"? Not so much.

It's fine when it's a need. Sometimes I really need a hug, or to talk something out. But when it's a peculiar instance of a greater want, I'm not good with expressing this.

For example, yesterday. As we hadn't spent time together in a couple of days, Grotto suggested we catch up and write/paint/do something creative in the evening. I said that sounded great, and invited him round to my place. I told him I was meeting a friend at 5 for a quick post-work drink but would be free after that. I mentioned there was something I had to check on at 7pm on the way home from town, but beyond that I had no other commitments. We messaged each other around 6 when I was done with my friend, and Grotto said he was having a drink with work colleagues at their regular bar, quite nearby, wanna meet here? Sure, I replied, see ya soon.

When I got there, he was unwinding from his first day back at work. The usual crowd was in attendance, and I had a quick catch up with everyone. Grotto was smiley... he'd had some good times with Bijou over the weekend and I guess things were going well. He wanted to chill and drink some more but I was keen to get back home. After a while, Bijou turned up (it's her regular drinking spot too) and we hugged and said brief hullos, all quite pleasant, Grotto grinning Cheshire cats.

Grotto's mates hole themselves up in the bar's smoking room, which is this odd claustrophobic cage with languid, almost lagubrious vibes. It can sometimes feel like the doldrums being there. I realised I was on a different buzz to him, having had a relatively unproductive day and keen to make something of the evening & night whereas he was recovering from the grind of the first office Monday of 2013.

I said - "hey, I wanna head off, do you just want to come round to mine later on?" "Stay," he said, "just for a while and then we'll leave." Ok. I went outside, drank some water, met some interesting folks loitering in the street, came back in... Grotto was nowhere near leaving, and I wanted to make my 7pm appointment (checking out a writing desk I'd seen online), so I told him I'd scoot off.

"I'll text you later on, and come round?" he said.

At that point, my bleargh kicked in. "Ah, nah, don't worry about it, we'll catch up some other time." I didn't want him to make plans with me that he'd break or regret later, if he'd rather not come over to my place. Seemed like people were having a good time and, esp with Bijou being there, he might be more inclined to stay out than see me. "Tomorrow?" he asked. "I'm busy tomorrow, and I think Wednesday too... (Ocean & I have a tentative date on Wed) how about Thursday?" "Ok, love." He kissed me, and the resident gay boys called us "breeders" (ah man, I remember doing the same to other hetero couples when I was only dating women, whoops)

On the way home, I had a crescendo of emotional nausea... What the fuck is wrong with me? Why was I so restless? Grotto seemed really happy, why couldn't I relax and spend time with him with other people? It was a good chance to hang out with Bijou there, but I passed it up. Yeah, I had this other commitment but me leaving was more than that. I... just didn't want to be there. I wanted to be either doing my own thing, or spending one-on-one time with Grotto. I wasn't in the mood for staying at the bar.

So why couldn't I just say that, and ask Grotto to leave with me? Why did I cancel our date? I definitely wanted to spend quality time with him, just the two of us, and in particular doing creative projects because it's been ages since we've set aside time and energy for that and we keep saying that we should. But... it's like, I only wanted that if he also wanted that. I didn't want to put my desire out like a need, with him feeling obliged to follow through, just cos we'd made plans.

I felt angry at myself, for being worked up but unable to voice what was bothering me. I composed a few texts to Grotto on the way home, but they were no good so I didn't send them. When I'd left the bar, it was on a cheery note, and he had no reason to suspect I was feeling bad now. Mm. I decided to let it be, not to spoil his night by sending serious texts. There was nothing I needed to sort out with him right now. It was more my mood, and I was just looking forward to getting home and channeling the funk of my emotions into some creative outlet.

At home, things were better. I started to untangle the knots of myself a little. Planned dinner. Then I get a call from Grotto - can he still come over? He wanted to see me. Well, fuck, that cheered me up. When he got here he was the sweetest thing, said Thursday was too far away, said he was worried that I was feeling awkward about Bijou. I reassured him that it wasn't that, which was a relief to him. It's really not that, I don't think, or at least it's a small part. I had already been thinking that Grotto seemed like he wanted to stay out drinking rather than come back to mine, and I felt like I was dragging him away from his friends to ask him to leave with me. Bijou arriving made that feeling even stronger, but it definitely wasn't triggered by her being there.

The rest of the night was great. Ocean came home soon after Grotto got here, so they hung out while I made ratatouille. We had dinner together the three of us, then Ocean read while Grotto and I made motions towards getting ready to write together. I was dubious as to whether Grotto would be up for it (it was 11pm by now) and sure enough he fell asleep while I was out of the room for 30 seconds. So cute. I set him up to sleep on the sofa bed, said good night to Ocean, and went back to sleep with Grotto. In the morning we may have succeeded in quiet-not-waking-Ocean-up sex, I'm not sure. Five mins after we were done, Ocean got out of bed and went for a jog :p Gonna have to ask him about that later.

I made breakfast and packed lunch for everyone, while Ocean and Grotto got organised for work and teased me about my inability to get fingered in the belly button ("It tickles!" "But I'm not even moving it... come on" "Nooooo... !") Hug and kiss from Grotto as he headed out the door, and the same with Ocean about five minutes later. I could get used to this ;)

It's Grotto's birthday on Thursday, and he wants to do drinks somewhere. I'm gonna message Bijou and see if she'd be keen to sleep over together at Grotto's place that night. I reckon he'd like that.

In the meantime, what I've learnt from my epiphany is that I need to find a way of saying this:

- I don't want to drag you away from what you're currently doing, if you prefer doing this
- I don't want to be an obligation
- I don't need this right now; it can wait til later or I can do without it
- There are many specific ways I enjoy spending time with you, and I find it hard to prioritise this way over other ways
- I like the fluidity of going with the flow
BUT
- I'd love to hang out with you right now in this particular way, if you're down for it too.

[fuchka]

Ocean & I had a date tonight. We worked on inventing a card game together, then went to a local eatery we'd been wanting to try out for a while. Being creative with him is often challenging because we frequently talk past each other. It can get frustrating, but I enjoy it for the learning and intimacy. We get better at communicating each time we tackle a more difficult project... I'm in love with the process. I'm also glad we managed a date night before we needed it. Plus, we've got some time scheduled on the weekend too, yay!

Grotto's birthday tomorrow. Bijou liked the idea of both of us sleeping over at his place at night. Am meeting her for lunch beforehand to discuss. Will be our first meet up alone; excited :) Fuck, she's luscious.

[fuchka]

Grotto's birthday went really well. He invited a group of his close friends to drinks at his house. Ocean was in high spirits; he clicked with one of Grotto's workmates and the two of them were having animated conversations on the balcony.

Bijou and I stole some time away from everyone to chat (she had to work through her lunch break that day, so we didn't get a chance to talk earlier as planned.) She said she really respected our relationship (i.e. Grotto's and mine), didn't want to intrude on our private space, etc. All good stuff. Then we made out a bit, and had to drag ourselves back to being sociable.

Meanwhile, Grotto's trying to figure out where everyone's gonna sleep, having no idea Bijou & I have already conspired about the bedtime arrangements. Needless to say, he had a very happy birthday :) Bijou & I texted the next day about how much fun we had and how high we felt. Life is good.

[fuchka]

An ongoing complaint Grotto has with me is my inability to "talk about my feelings". He means specifically when there's something on my mind, that I'm still processing but keeping it all inside. He can tell there's something up, and he wants to know what.

This is not a case of me wanting to say something, but for whatever reason not being able to speak up. It's just - I don't want to talk about it right now. Yes, I have something on my mind but I don't know what I think about how I'm feeling and I'd like more time to cogitate.

Usually Grotto is so frustrated, curious and worried, that he manages to squeeze something out of me (it usually involves a lot of prefacing), after which we have a fraught, strained discussion before we eventually tease things out and I admit I'm glad we talked. (As a separate point, this is not something I've experienced with other partners. I'm keen to see what Ocean thinks about me in this regard.)

Anyway, back to Grotto and me: a recent occasion when this familiar cycle was happening again, we decided to make time at a separate point to have a proper conversation about our communication styles in these situations. The "conversation" conversation, if you will. I suggested we should use the current scenario as a case study (partly to defer me having to discuss it right then, hehe, but mostly because I thought it would be a good idea to not just be talking in general terms. And it would force me to deal with the issue.)

So, a few days ago we talked about talking. I said a few things. That I do my best; that when I'm trying to communicate it's difficult if Grotto says things like "Jesus, why does it always have to be so hard for you? Why can't you just talk about your feelings?" :p ; that I sometimes find it easier to write than to speak about how I think/feel; that at times I struggle with framing my thoughts or feelings properly, e.g. I may have strong emotions that I think are unjustified or non-rational and I feel I need to work things out for myself before I can talk about them properly. Grotto said he wanted to be part of that working out, he wanted me to be more open to sharing with him my internal life. It was a good conversation conversation.

This morning, I tried out some of our new strategies in discussing a couple of heavy topics that had been on my mind. Wow. The talking was so easy. For my part, I had agreed to get to the point as soon as possible, say what I was feeling as best I could, confident that I would have the chance to clarify, frame or rephrase later. Grotto had agreed to be more patient with me, to take what I said at face value, and to give me time to add any qualifications to my initial statement before jumping to conclusions or responding explosively.

I got out what had been rolling around in my head, and possibly contributing to me being more reserved than usual the previous night (I was also quite tired, though). He responded with his perspective, which was really useful especially on a couple of points. Then we had creamy morning sex.

Ahh... as usual, I'm really glad we talked.

[rory]

The "conversation" conversation, if you will.

Me and Mya have these kind of meta-conversations every so often. We also do a lot of disclaimers when we talk that go along the lines of "this is how I feel but I don't think this rationally" or "this is how I feel but I don't wish you to do anything about it". I find it crucial for facilitating communication about absolutely anything, because we can be openly emotional without triggering each other into defense.

[fuchka]

yup rory, it's precisely those kinds of things we needed to get clear!

I asked Ocean yesterday about his thoughts on my communication style... He said I was a really roundabout communicator and often went on tangents (when it comes to general communication) but he hadn't had any issues with the way I expressed myself emotionally. I think it could be that he does a lot of internal processing of his own emotions too, so recognises that in me and doesn't pressure me to talk before I'm ready.

Next week, I'm heading back to my home country for five days to sort a bunch of practical things. I had thought that Ocean would be able to go, but he can't in the end. Ah well. Will be good to see family and friends, if I have time after I get this work done. Hope to catch up a few times with Ella, too. I'm looking forward to things being better than last time I was there.

Menrva and Bert get back from their travels the day before I leave (conveeeenient!) I'm excited for Ocean, and also in terms of doing group things with everyone. We're planning a triple date (Ocean, me, Grotto, Bijou, Menrva, Bert) if we can schedule a time and place that suits everyone. There's a possibility that the four of us (before M&B get home) are going out together to a poly event this weekend. I'm easy either way; we've been seeing quite a bit of each other. Just see what happens.

Right now I'm chilling out at home after a busy Friday at the place I'm volunteering at. Grotto was going to be cooking dinner for Bijou, but she's changed that to tomorrow night so I might roll round there to watch a movie. Ocean and I had a scheduled date last night, and another one (for household chores + art) planned for tomorrow... He and I have been doing well for making quality time to till the soil of our relationship. We touch base at the start of the week and lock in time. A default is to see each other on Saturday... this has been working well for the past three weeks.

K, gonna enjoy a bit of time home alone before heading round to Grotto's. Happy weekend y'all!

p.s. Yesterday, Ocean called Grotto my "other husband"... I paused, gave him a quizzical look. He seemed sincere and chilled about it, and yeah - it felt pretty right. I don't usually call Ocean my husband, but he calls himself my husband. Guess things are really working out :cool:

[fuchka]

Have been keeping busy.

Visited home city, and more or less sorted out everything I needed to get done. Was very proud of myself. For once, I managed to juggle chores with socialising such that I didn't feel guilty when I was taking time out to see people, and also didn't feel stressed that I couldn't see everyone. I have many people I'm close to, and I sometimes feel spread too thinly. This time I picked a manageable number of people I wanted to see, and cut myself some slack. Phew - it felt good.

Ocean's got a job interview next month - in a different city in our home country. Sheesh, possible LDR coming up if he gets this job and decides to take it (he's unsure if he will as his current work situation is pretty good for his career, even though it isn't a permanent job.) I'm not thinking too far ahead about that. Minor freakouts but mostly calm. We'll see.

Finally got all my paperwork sorted to get my qualifications from my home country carried over to where I'm living now. Hooray! Now just have to pay the fees... :p I've been volunteering quite a bit here but haven't captured any paid work as yet. Trying to keep my patience, positivity and productivity. A success, in the main. Grateful that Ocean and I can still afford to make ends meet with a single income at the moment.

Starting up swimming and dance again since the holidays... my body and mind has definitely missed it.

Spent some Quality Time with Ella when I was visiting. I was camping in a tent at the back of my old house (where my friends are living now with a baby! So so cute) so we could cuddle but not be too loud. The intimacy was gentle but good. She was going away for the weekend I was there, so we didn't get much time to see each other but we stole a morning here and an evening there... It's low-key but okay.

We're not that great at keeping in touch while I'm away, though. I sense it's more her than me... I've initiated online chats a wee bit but not got very far. When we e-mail, it's usually me who sends the last message in the thread. That kind of thing. I reckon I need a bit more connection if I'm going to stay on the learning curve of Getting To Know Ella. I've been thinking of writing to her along these lines... It's okay if we don't keep in touch, but that's going to mean more work the next time [when?] we see each other.

I don't feel like I know her well enough yet, for our bodies to be uncomplicated together... something like that.

Grotto's a smidge mopey at the moment. Bijou has asked for some space, and is treating him fairly platonically these days. I feel it's possibly a seasonal thing: her scoping him out, or some other reason that could pass in time. For now, he needs a hug. Hopefully will see him tonight.

I've been spending some time with my ma the last few days, as she's visiting from overseas. Our relationship has been tough - she's very conservative Catholic and we clash a lot on topics involving sexual morality/religion. Recently we've had some good times, focusing on common interests... but there's still that tense undercurrent, an electric wire we cannot touch. I hope one day to be more open with her about my personal life, but not yet. So much is still too tender.

What else? Oh, I had this weird awful pain in my body a couple of weeks back. Not sure what it was... it's mostly gone, just a dull thing now. Some of the possibilities bode ill for my reproductive bits. I was surprised how that made me feel - panicked, sad... the foreshadowing of grief?

Ocean and I have decided to talk again about having kids in the middle of the year, when things are more certain about his job. Until then, I'd like to get more of a handle on what I really feel / want in this arena. Having spent time with friends who have children, particularly younger ones, I know the value of me being aunty - and especially an aunty who isn't drained from having kids of her own. A large part of me wants to keep it that way. The other part... requires investigation.

[fuchka]

Sleepy. Stayed up late making slides for a talk that Ocean's doing as part of his interview process. It's in a small city in our home country; he's there now, and will be coming back in a few days.

It's a permanent job, starting July. If he's offered it, he's not sure if he'll take it. Part of the purpose of him travelling there is to check out the environment to see if he'd want to relocate.

The possibility of him moving became more real to me as I helped prep his presentation. He's good. He's in a shortlist of four people. This could go either way.

Grotto morose. He knows that I may move if Ocean moves. At this stage, I'm not planning to, but it really depends on how everything goes for him. If Ocean's happy, and enjoying himself, it would then depend on my work and priorities. But if I am still not rooted in this new city, and especially if Ocean's not coping too well, I'd seriously consider joining him.

There's no work for Grotto in that small city. He's loving it here and doesn't want to move. He's feeling fear of abandonment, feeling a bit of hierarchy (I'd move for Ocean but wouldn't stay for him?), butting against the edges of poly. Two of them, one of me.

Meanwhile, I still haven't found paid work, and have been looking elsewhere (other cities). Still don't need another income, but I want to feel like I've got something keeping me here apart from relationships. Well, I'm involved with quite a few things here but nothing I can't leave at a moment's notice. Makes me feel flighty. Like, why am I not travelling right now?

[fuchka]

Had a chat with Ella online. She's been busy, moving house, been away camping at a music festival. She recently received a letter that I'd sent to her last year, while travelling. It took ages and had been misdirected, so was a months-old rambling. Apparently she liked it. Specifically "it made her feel good" - interesting way of putting it :) I don't remember what I wrote. I think I was very sea-sick at the time and considering jumping ship.

Chatting was a relief. I felt like it had been ages since we chatted, but I just looked and it'd only been about two weeks. Hmm. Anyway, I told her that I wanted to keep in touch a wee bit more, if we could. She said she's sending me a letter soon. Okay, this is good.

At the end, I said "take care, love"
She said "I will. Love you"

The sudden warmth of the sun as a cloud moves.

[fuchka]

Ocean didn't get the job in the end, so he will be based here for the next wee while. It's disappointing, but also a relief. Makes the logistics of our love life much simpler for the next couple of years, at least.

Just to muddy the waters though, I applied for a job in a nearby city (jobs in my area of work are quite thin on the ground, so have been looking further afield) and got it. It's a six-month fixed term contract, so although I'll be away from Ocean & Grotto, it won't be for too long.

Grotto's work offers week-long stints in that city, so he may take a few of them in order to see me (yay!) and Ocean has also promised to visit. As for me, I'm looking forward to having some time out by myself. I have friends and family there but I'm not sure where I'll stay. Maybe somewhere completely different. Ah. Adventures.

On the topic of adventures, I had a surprising hook-up recently with someone who opened up about his attraction to me after hearing that Ocean & I were not monogamous. He's beautiful, and smells like the forest. I lust after the sap of his skin. We haven't spent too much time together but oh, it's good. We have a friendship we treasure, so I'm not sure if this is going to be a friends-who-fuck deal - or, as I like to say, "fucking good friends" :D - or something more romantic. He says he tends to be able to keep the sex-track and the friendship/intimacy-track quite separate, so will see how it goes. We have a massage and movie date pending for next week. My body quickens when I think of it

He's friends with Ocean too, and has met Grotto recently and liked him. Also, he's queer, and I've been fantasising about all the obvious things. Grotto hasn't helped by making sly suggestions of his own. Well, nothing wrong with a lively imagination per se :)

Grotto & I took a huge hit the other day when I reacted really poorly to a minor miscommunication. It made me crash emotionally, and a number of things tumbled for me and I felt like I didn't want to be with him anymore. An awful, teary conversation later and we realised there were a several things I needed to talk with him about, that had been festering but I didn't realise. It's shaming me a bit, because Grotto absolutely does not bottle anything up. If he feels something, he says it. I try to communicate well, but I sometimes misjudge my thoughts as trivial, and decide not to share when I probably should have. (Incidentally, Ocean is at the other end of the spectrum, rarely sharing if he's upset about anything. So I can sometimes empathise with how Grotto feels vis-a-vis me, by thinking of how I feel when Ocean behaves similarly, in a relative sense)

Ocean's been spending a lot of time with Menrva & Bert. Most of his dates with Menrva seem to be with Bert as well. I don't envy him, though the three of them seem to get along well. He's over at their place watching a movie right now. I've really been enjoying all the space to myself. It's good to come home to an empty house most nights.

This weekend we're going as a whole family (Ocean, Grotto, Menrva, Bert & myself) to a local poly social. Been a while since the five of us hung out, will be interesting. I didn't expect Bert would be keen on something like this... Surely, surely, surely he doesn't intend the DADT to continue? I mean. I've still never directly discussed being poly with him. In a group, we never speak any words to indicate that Bert & Menrva are in an open relationship, or that she is seeing Ocean.

There'll be drinking at the social, and I can see myself bringing shit up with Bert. Either I will, or Grotto. Hah, ah well. I'll do my best to behave. I suppose... Though I'm sure things are settled enough to withstand some accidentally-on-purpose curiousity

[fuchka]

Holy hell, what just happened? :) New boy, let's call him Plinth, came round to help me with an art project last night. Ocean had to head out, so Plinth & I were home alone. Gah... it got messy but very very good. Perfect timing; he came in a fountain just as Ocean got home. Delicious.

I was due at Grotto's place, so around 1am I headed out. Plinth crashed here. This morning, I came back home and slipped into bed with Ocean. About half an hour later, I shifted to the couch where Plinth was sleeping. The cuddles were luscious.

Then... I made coffee, did the dishes. Plinth and Ocean cooked breakfast. Ocean had had a sore throat the night before. I'd brought home ginger and Plinth made ginger tea with lemon and honey for him. Two caring, generous men in the kitchen together? I melt.

Ocean reluctantly headed off to get some work done... Plinth and I home alone yet again... I can't keep my hands or mouth off him, I surrender to the lust of it. It's so sweet to relax when there's this solid foundation of friendship.

We go marketing for my cousin's birthday tonight. Making some food for the dinner party. Now I'm home again, have to prep a few things. Ocean due back from work soon. Plinth heading back to his place to finish up some tasks, but will be back (I scored him an invite too.) Grotto will meet us there. I'm horny as fuck, and happy as a rainbow with fistfuls of chocolate.

Yeah yeah, NRE. Whatever ;)

[rory]

I'm horny as fuck, and happy as a rainbow with fistfuls of chocolate.

Awesome! ;)

[Mya]

Oooo, sounds very good! :)

[fuchka]

Thanks rory & Mya. Yeah, things are pretty sweet right now, it's like an uberbirthday.

My cousin's party last night was rad. Ocean, Grotto and Plinth there, heaps of friends old and new, my uncle (who I'm not out to) and my aunt (who I am) were there. I decided not to stress about being careful with what my uncle would see. I figure, I'm confident about what I'm doing, I don't think I'm being bad... Ocean is obviously fine with everything, and the two of us are solid.

If my parents found out about our non-monogamy, things would be bad. However, I've been thinking of maybe not directly coming out to people who I know would judge me, but just behaving however I want to, openly. If they have an issue, they can ask, and I will give honest replies.

Local poly group social event today. Ocean, the in-laws, Grotto and I are doing a five-some, a family day out. This poly social date has made me think again about Menrva & Bert's DADT which has meant I've never had a direct conversation with Bert about the fact that his wife is dating my husband. I mean, he knows I know that he knows etc etc. It's not really about naming the elephant in the room. It's more... I dunno... openness? Communication? Wanting to talk, even a little bit, about how things are going? Release the pressure?

This might be a selfish thing for me. Wanting to poke things I'm not meant to touch.

I have had visions of me having a few drinks and popping the issue with Bert. In fact, I've had a couple of opportunities in the past, e.g. both of us at the bar waiting for our beers, and I really have to stop myself. I'm not sure if I need to... Not sure what the deal is... Anyway, instead of making a call by myself, Ocean suggested that I float this topic with Menrva first. Initially this idea (pre-screening things with Menrva) did not appeal to me. I don't like the concept of getting someone else's permission to have a conversation... between adults... But I realised this was a matter of respecting their relationship and their personal boundaries.

So - I did it. Sent Menrva this in a recent e-mail:


Looking forward to seeing you both tonight at the local poly social.

One thing I wanted to flag was something that's been on my mind for a while. It is definitely not a big deal, but it is a small thought that keeps rolling around. I am a very upfront person and I like to talk about things, and make sure things are okay with words. This is often unnecessary, but still feels good! In this situation, I can obviously tell from everyone's behaviour that things are comfortable for you, Bert and Ocean. However, it has been a bit unusual for me to never discuss anything directly with Bert about things. Basically I'd like to ask him how things are, and be open to sharing thoughts/perspectives.

I understand he may not want to talk about things to do with multiple relationships. Therefore I was surprised that he was open to coming to the local poly group social. I feel like I'd really like to have a conversation with Bert about non-monogamy and things around that. Not necessarily today and maybe never, of course. I thought I should mention this thought of mine to you, in case you had anything to reply.

I don't usually ask permission of people before talking to other people... I tend to relate to people individually. But in this case, I'm not sure how to be respectful while still having genuine communication.

No need to reply to this in a hurry, or indeed at all (I'd hate you to feel pressure about what to respond)! As I said, this is not a major issue or bother for me at all, and certainly not anything urgent.

Although it wasn't preying on my mind, or at least not much, I'm glad to have written to her, and I feel a sense of relief about this aspect of our dynamics.

[fuchka]

Ha, she just replied. All is good... Seems the DADT is more about Bert's disinclination to want to talk about personal things very much, rather than not being open to talking about it in principle. So, "DADT" was a poor way to put it, really... I'm glad I brought this up, and no doubt we will discuss more later. Also, as a flow-on effect, this might clarify things for Ocean too. So far he has respectfully avoided any explicit conversation about poly matters, with Bert. I really don't know how much of this is necessary.

Ah, this confusion shit is why I don't like any kind of DADT in the first place. You can't figure out what people actually feel about the things you think you're not meant to be talking about... including whether you can talk about it!

What a lot of tiptoeing around when grandma wasn't even sleeping.

[fuchka]

Sent Plinth links to a couple of articles on polysaturation, that I'd recently re-read (this (http://www.modernpoly.com/article/polysaturated) and this (http://www.serolynne.com/polysaturation.htm)). He liked them, wants to read more. This is his first direct experience of non-monogamy. I'm hoping I can organise enough time to make it good for him, without comprising existing relationships and activities in my life.

Have a movie date with Ocean tomorrow. Date at Plinth's place Thursday night. Work drinks on Friday. Weekend's busy already. Hope Grotto's free to catch up on Wednesday... :p

But seriously, I don't want to be panicked, having to rush from one person to the other, that's just too hectic. I need to plan things so there's breathing room, time to just spend in my own or other people's company.

So. Each week, I think I need to stay over at Grotto's twice, and maybe see him one other time during the day/evening, have time to myself one or two nights, catch up with Ocean at least one night and one weekend day, which - I think - means I can see Plinth one night a week, if I'm careful? At least one night a fortnight.

This Thursday I'm going around to his after dance class, which is good for me as I rarely have energy for anything much apart from socialising at that time. And it also means it won't start in the early evening, will be more like 8pm, so a night (most probably with very little sleep, ah...) but not the evening too. I want to swim on Friday morning before work, so if I can manage to make it to that, the morning after, it will be a perfect crime. Also, if Plinth is working on Friday, he'll be starting work early, which would suit perfectly for me making it to the pool on time. Mm.

I really don't want to fuck this up.

Had an impromptu Skype date with Ella today. A quickie before she had to go out for dinner. Refreshing. She's beautiful. Haven't told her about Plinth yet, but I will soon... I'm a bit nervous she'll feel deprioritised? It's been tricky enough for us to stay connected (let alone grow our connection) long-distance. I really don't want this new connection with Plinth to detract from whatever trajectory I was on with Ella.

Hopefully the increased difficulty of co-ordinating time etc will make me make time for relationships better. I've found that with Ocean, since he's been busy with Menrva, we actually see each other more often, or at least, more quality time more often. Cos we need to be a strong base for these crazy love acrobatics :)

[Mya]

Thanks for the polysaturation links! Happens to be a topic of interest for me too. :) It's a bit of a challenge to arrange everything, but I'm sure you'll do it well. :)

[fuchka]

I stole time with Plinth on Tuesday, time I didn't really have. Traded in some me-time between work tasks and dinner (previously set aside for much-overdue letter & e-mail writing, and a long shower) for drinking iced tea with Plinth, holding hands, skating our feet up and down side streets, peering up at the corners of buildings butting bricks against the sky, scouting around to find dry grass in the belly of a city park. I stripped down to my underwear (boxers, sports bra) and lay beside him for longer than was wise. Made it back into town just in time to catch Ocean for our planned dinner date. Foolish, wonderful. Can't repeat too often.

As I scampered from one street corner (kissing a frantic good-bye to Plinth), across two blocks and into Ocean's familiar arms, I thought yet again about how much I am grateful for our wide open love. I was on a high from seeing Plinth, the sweat of his skin all over my body and in my mouth, and I didn't have to hide it. No guilt. No cheating. Pure joy.

I am well loved.

[Mya]

As I scampered from one street corner (kissing a frantic good-bye to Plinth), across two blocks and into Ocean's familiar arms, I thought yet again about how much I am grateful for our wide open love. I was on a high from seeing Plinth, the sweat of his skin all over my body and in my mouth, and I didn't have to hide it. No guilt. No cheating. Pure joy.

I am well loved.

Aaaw, this sounds amazing! :) I'm so happy for you and I totally get what you mean with this. It is just so lovely to be able to enjoy more than one person and all of the individual things that make us care about these different people without hiding it. Poly sure can be great. :)

[fuchka]

Mya - I love how we're on really similar vibes at the moment! Yup, this poly deal is quite wonderful when it works ;)

Date with Plinth on Thursday was decadent, carnal, confessional. Two soft puzzle pieces nuzzling, amazed that each permutation of hands and mouths and limbs and thoughts fit so snugly. We dragged his king single mattress onto the ground because the bed frame was squeaky. Shut the windows, turned the music up a little, hoped we weren't disturbing the flatmates in the courtyard. We managed to sleep eventually, more out of prudence than exhaustion, our bodies slick with fuck, sweat, saliva and each other's fantasies. Pleasantly full.

I made it to the pool the next morning, just. In time for a quickie (a 15 min swim as opposed to an hour) but it still felt good. It was a token gesture towards continuing those good disciplines I need and want in my life. This new relationship is luscious, and I desire far more than I can have. I don't want to clamber wildly, to forget my scaffolding.

On Saturday, Grotto, Ocean and I went to a houseparty of one of Ocean (and Menrva)'s colleagues. Bert & Menrva were there too. Menrva still doesn't want to be out to her co-workers, which is quite up to her, however previously this has made Ocean ask me to be secretive as well. The thinking being: if people know he and I are poly, then they may suspect Menrva is poly too (given how much time Ocean spends with her).

I told him I wasn't sure I could be bothered doing that anymore. I enjoy being out too much, and I'm not convinced this deception is necessary. It feels odd to invite Grotto someplace where we have to hide our connection, for no good reason. Basically, Menrva's reasons aren't good enough for me. Selfish? Maybe. Though I don't think she minded. It was more Ocean wanting to be cautious on her behalf.

Finally had The Conversation with Bert. A simple "so how's this going for you?" We didn't talk for long, but I was really happy to be upfront, and I feel far more connected to him as a person now. I'm not great with moderation, and having this artificial boundary of not talking about poly (especially as it was the main reason we were connecting in the first place!) hadn't helped me to feel expansive and open with him. In a funny moment, I felt this rush of tenderness towards him and nearly kissed him! Whoops. I have never been attracted to Bert (and still am not) but I do care for him, and he's been struggling with a few things, so my instincts gushed a bit there. Luckily I checked the impulse, hard. That could have been messy, oh so complicated.

A lazy Sunday, both Ocean and Grotto hung over. I'm perky, restless. Go for a long swim, come back and they're still in bed! We have leftover pizza and coffee for breakfast. Ocean's not in the mood for fooling around in a threesome, but he's suprisingly cheeky. Spanks me. Asks me to fuck Grotto so he can keep reading his book. (Not as a kinky thing, more "you're randy, love, why don't you go bother your other husband for a while and leave me in peace.")

We have a small, resonant apartment with minimal privacy. I'm impressed that we're so comfortable that it's okay to hang out together, even if we're on very different vibes. Respectful negotiation, in good will and good humour. Well. We've clearly come quite far as a triad. And yet, there's more moutain for the trekking and my boots are keen. Epic love :)

Sunday afternoon, I catch up with some of Grotto's friends to play cards. Plinth is in the vicinity, so I ask him if he wants to drop in for a bit. Note to self: we can't do brief catch-ups at the moment. When I see him, my entire consciousness pours down a funnel of joy, curiosity, lust. I'm captivated by the smell and taste of him, I get lost in his bushfire beard. Gah, I'm smitten.

It's hard to be circumspect, but I need to be. I want to steal time with Plinth but 30 mins becomes three hours as soon as I hold his hand, as soon as his tongue touches mine. Short bursts are possible if we've got fixed commitments pending with other people, but don't work so well if we just have miscellaneous personal tasks to get on to. I must be smart, strategic. Plan proper dates with him, that I actually have time for, and not graze in-between.

So yesterday, although I had a window after finishing work and meeting Ocean, where I could have seen Plinth (who was heading to my area) I left it. It was hard to do! But for the best.

Invited him for dinner at ours tonight. Grotto, Menrva and Bert are coming, Ocean and I are cooking. The whole fucking family :D If this is polysaturation, I hope we can at least drip any excess into a bucket and use it for watering the plants or something.

Updates on a couple of people not yet mentioned:

- Bijou: She and Grotto have been fluctuating a bit. Close flirty friends, she's not sure what she wants. She seems to like him too much to be able to sustain a casual thing, esp as he feels pretty deeply for her. At the moment, she doesn't want anything serious. It's been hard to find the right balance. Grotto's sometimes pretty cut up about things, but he's mellowed out recently. Occasionally there is conflict, blood on the balcony.

I haven't seen too much of her, but I probably should touch base, as a comradely thing. Especially before I head away. I don't want to leave any festering fears... Her presence swallows me up a little. She's very sensuous, and she relishes the hunt. I'm not into games or drama so my instincts have been to keep my distance.

- Ella: Wrote me a sweet letter. I'm almost finished one to post back. My letter writing has choked recently, incessant life detours. I need to re-establish my path.

But, yeah. She's good to me, good for me. We're doing alright.

Now. Apologies to folks who are following this, but I need to make one final name change. I chose the gloss "Ella" before someone with a very similar name came into my life, and the resemblance has been really confusing me. Definitely makes more sense to pick psuedonyms that aren't commonly used as a name themselves :) So from now on, Ella = Djuna. Thank you for your patience; I'll adjust the necessary paperwork eventually.

[fuchka]

The first time I met her was at a poetry event. She's the kind of girl that says "hey", keeps her hands in her pockets, stands with one side of her body slightly lower than the other. She wears shoes that were designed to scuff sidewalks.

Grotto had invited her. A friend he hadn't seen for a while, one he had always liked, was obviously crushing on a tiny bit. Just this much <-->

Leaning into one small round bar table, pints dripping condensation into coasters, we were happy to have exchanged names. I don't remember talking to her.

I remember her poem, written hastily on a scrap of paper like all good poems. It was about meeting new people, and not really talking to them, but feeling their love anyway. A poem for us, the people she'd just met. Smooth :)

As often happens with poetry, you see the insides of someone. Her poem was simple, direct. The way I've come to realise she talks, once you get things going.

Eventually, Grotto asked her to his place for dinner. They ate, fucked, and pretty soon were boyfriend and girlfriend. In many ways they matched each other much more than Grotto and I match. Size, shape, colour, accents, sense of humour, world view. I was never jealous about these things.

Their relationship developed mostly when I was overseas, when Grotto & I were long distance. In the couple of visits home, Djuna, Grotto and I had some mind-melting threesomes. I got to know her better as a person. I asked her to be my girlfriend, something we both knew was a token gesture of a broad intention to see where things went, between the two of us (separate to Grotto and her connection).

After six months or so, Grotto broke up with her. It wasn't dramatic, but it was sad. They always stayed good friends, and now they are comfortable with being friends who fuck occasionally.

As for us, we write letters, e-mails, Skype. Long-distance for the foreseeable future. I'm not holding back, at least not consciously, but I know I'd hate to miss her. I don't miss her now. We've established a comfortable 'long-distance' shape, perhaps because we've always been long-distance.

The love I have for her is not a falling, or an explosion, but a slow-paced daisy chain pieced together over many lazy afternoons. We're still going. It is good.

(prev referred to in this blog as Ella)

[fuchka]

I didn't sleep last night, because I was having sex. With Plinth. And Grotto. Separately. And together. And separately again. Both the boys got sleep, but I didn't. I couldn't. A semi-accident meant Grotto, Plinth and I were at Grotto's place last night, just the three of us. Christ, I could barely cope, in the best way possible. So many hot moments, Plinth slipping his fingers into Grotto's mouth (Plinth said it was "silken"), me in the middle with the other two mirroring their hands and mouths, etc, etc, etc, etc

In the morning, I came home to Ocean in time for a shower, change and breakfast. He was too cute in bed, and Grotto had also planted the seed of mischief in my mind... "You should go home and fuck Ocean". So, we stole enough time for a luscious quickie.

Work today, 9-6, was sluggish. Happy but drained. Cute moments chatting with Ocean & Grotto:

Ocean: last week it was 3 boys on 3 consecutive nights
this week it's 3 boys within 24 hours
me: (4)
(hours)
Ocean: yikes

and

Grotto: you're so beautiful
when you got back into bed all sleepy and freshly fucked it struck me hard
i love you fuchka
you bring a huge amount of joy to me

[rory]

I have nothing to say but... awesome. :cool: Makes some very enjoyable reading, too.

[fuchka]

rory - thanks :) It's fun writing too.

Well, Grotto's been powering away at a personal project of his, making massive headway. He's happy, focused, proud of himself. Made me realise that I haven't been doing too well on my own projects. It's not all bad, but it hasn't been great. And, I felt slightly jealous!

I've always found it hard delimiting time for my own stuff. Somehow everything else gets priority, and once I finally clear the pile of laundry, I find my projects were stifled at the bottom of it all.

The only thing to do, of course, is get better at making space for myself and my own projects. Use Grotto's success to inspire me to do better. I need to give myself more time, quality time, to squirrel away at things. Remind myself that I want, need this.

I've thought a bit about how creative and sexual energy influence each other. One of my friends feels like she has to pick one over the other; in her experience, she doesn't make as much art if she's also having good sex. I don't know how it is with me, but I noticed that I had just made room in my schedule for me to finish a project (pretty much cleared the table of personal commitments for the next few weeks) when Plinth and I hooked up.

I haven't dropped the ball on tasks I owed other people, but I have been slack with my self-imposed deadlines. Have also been sleeping less. (Well, it's been stinking hot, so sleep hasn't come easy anyway.)

Today have a date with Plinth after dance again. I want to do a solid chunk of work beforehand, so I feel like I deserve the break.

Ended up hanging with one of Grotto's colleagues over the weekend, unplanned. Went back to his place, played chess, got high, cooked dinner. He's a guy I've hung out with a wee bit, but always in groups. I didn't think it through properly... what his expectations were, what I wanted. It was like an accidental date. He asked me to stay over. I decided to sleep on the couch. His apartment is a couple of buildings over from where Grotto lives.

Grotto and I had been texting a wee bit through the night. I said I had no idea what was going on, and asked if he was ok. Grotto said he was just bemused, and wished me good luck. Around 2am I got a call from Grotto, he wasn't doing too well, wanted to see me. So I went round (his colleague woke up and walked me over, actually, which was sweet)...

Turns out Grotto had been feeling progressively less comfortable about the thought of me getting together with one of his friends/work colleagues. Understandably. I had considered the workplace dynamics of things when I'd decided not to go there. We didn't have any clear rules about it, but we've got a rule now. No friends or workmates.

I could probably use a few restrictions ;)

[fuchka]

Wow, I've been PMSing hard recently. Last few times have been serious freefalls, gritted teeth, white knuckles. Makes me wanna dwell in the shadows - so I thought this is a good opportunity to be clear in this blog about some things that are challenges at the moment.

Ocean, still can be very depressed some days, which I often experience as a trigger for myself feeling guilt, useless. God, depression can be so relentless. His meds only help so much. He smokes weed (a small to moderate amount) to relieve his mood... but he's been addicted in the past and doesn't always find it easy to regulate. He's really antisocial when he smokes. Wants to be by himself. I don't usually enjoy being around him when he's high.

Things are frequently rough with him and Menrva. Their relationship, on top of his own work, can tire him out so that he's left craving for time and space for himself. I can feel it, and I want him to get what he needs... but I also need time with him. I don't want to add my demands on him to all his existing demands, but I don't want to minimise my own needs, to be the wheel that doesn't squeak until fuck! It's jammed up.

I feel like I need a lot of self-awareness to navigate these relationships. To know when I need to speak up, and do it. The first part can often be the hardest.

While I'm on the difficult aspects of my relationship with Ocean: sex. Is still infrequent to non-existent. Things are much, much better than they were before he got on his most recent meds, but more often than not any moves I make in that direction are rebuffed. Yes. The few times we've fucked recently have been delicious. Caramel heating on a stove. Warm, nourishing, close. In fact, one body.

But. We aren't dessert people, and yet we're still ordering dessert more often than we have sex. Come on, dude :)

I'm not known for my patience. Luckily, there's nothing lacking in love or intimacy between Ocean & I, or desire to be with each other. So, sex relegated to being a side salad to a side salad? A small thing. I'm used to it. But, like a dripping tap, I'd prefer if it wasn't there.

Hmm. Things are good though, overall. I have bold, wondrous people in my life, who care about me bucketloads. I'm beyond sated, in the best way possible.

[fuchka]

A quiet night at home. I needed it. Had a date scheduled with Plinth (hah, as soon as I typed his name, he rang me) but I bowed out of it, which he accepted graciously.

Feeling okay. Ish. I'm really jealous of Menrva at the moment. I'm jealous that Ocean makes so much time to spend with her, like, recently they've both been working from home (her home) quite often. The other morning, I tried to initiate some fooling around in bed in the morning with Ocean, and he said he didn't have time and/or wasn't in the mood and/or had to get going for work. Can't remember what combination of the usual responses. Then she rang, and asked him what he was up to, whether he was home alone. He said "no". Then she suggested he come round to her place, and that they go to uni together from there. Obviously to spend some time alone with him first. He said yes, and left soon afterwards.

Fuuuck dude.

This was the morning after a conversation I tried to have with him, the previous night, about if he could let me know when a good time was, for sex. Because it seems like it's never a good time. And he said, sleepily, "I don't like to plan these things." We said we'd talk about it later.

Argh. I'm not dealing with this well. As in, I don't have good strategies. I'm honest and speak up when things happen that hurt me, like the above, but maybe I'm not timing it right, or phrasing it right. I'm heard but nothing seems to change. Well. I'm even not sure what I want to change. I just don't want things to be this way.

In this climate, having good sex with other people frightens me a little. Ocean & I don't have regular sex these days. I don't want to get in the habit of enjoying fucking other people and having a largely non-sexual relationship with Ocean.

I keep questioning myself - what am I doing to make this worse? I don't really put myself out there so much, to him. I expect to be rejected. I am angry with him for being so passive about sex. I'm angry that he doesn't prioritise this issue.

He admits that he deprioritises this because he can, because he feels we're solid. And I can't deny that. Also, in a way, the fact we don't have sex keeps things simpler, gives us more time for other things. But I can't help questioning if this is wise, when this spare energy facilitates sexual relationships with other people, but not each other?

Occasionally I've asked him directly - do you think we'd have more sex with each other if we were monogamous? Rational as ever, he says: maybe. Ah, the guilt used to overwhelm me. But really? Not being monogamous has kept me sane, when my libido has soared at times when his has stalled. Yes, maybe things would have been different libido-wise if we were monogamous. I don't know, and we'll never know. We just have to battle on.

Making things better on this front is not easy. We don't really know how to fix us. When we confront this situation, he often states the fact that we've got into the habit of not being sexual with each other. That it's hard to break the cycle. This is true. But to me it doesn't mean we can't challenge this. It's the situation. Neither of us want it. I don't think it will go away by itself. He thinks relationships have cycles: we're in a slump for now, but probably things will be better in the future. I'm scared that if we don't make an effort, it'll get harder and harder to change our patterns of behaviour. He is sorry he doesn't feel in the mood. I am sorry he doesn't feel in the mood. We love each other, forgive each other, hug and kiss and sometimes - though too rarely - sweetly fuck.

Other times I'm mad, I hate him for making me feel un-sexy, ignore-able. I'm wildly, non-rationally, irate. I hate him for being too goddamn lazy to sacrifice anything, his morning news, his muesli, his new favourite book, for trying to get in the mood. For not seeing any point in cultivating a sexual mood, not having any hope that feeding the beast might make it grow. He's really quiet in sex, almost unresponsive, and this attitude makes it feel especially bad sometimes when I'm randy, coaxing him, and he says nothing. God, man, what are you feeling? Talk to me.

I'm painting a bleak picture. I'm sad today. I fucked up a date with Ocean yesterday. We went out for drinks and nibbles after a talk, and I drank too much (I'm a sucker for free booze). We were planning to go home together, and then midway I'm not sure what happened, but he ended up wanting to join Menrva, Bert and some others at a pub. I was in no state to spend time in group company. We parted ways, and then - heading home by myself - I felt upset that he'd chosen to spend time with Menrva (who he sees every. fucking. day. All day. At work. Frequently after/before work too) to spending time with (admittedly atrociously drunk) me.

Earlier in the evening, I had spoken with Ocean directly. That I was feeling jealous of Menrva, jealous that he had an easier sexual relationship with her than with me. He said, this was true, and put it down to the usual stuff (our bad habits etc). Said it would inevitably be easier with someone new, without that same baggage (ouch). I said I knew all that, but it hurt. He said thank you for sharing, said some reassuring things. Ah, man, I'm just bleargh at the moment. I don't know what to do.

Ocean and I have scheduled time tomorrow but I almost don't want to see him. I don't want to not have sex with him. And, actually, I don't want to have sex with him. It's like I'm over it. I'm over grappling with this issue. I'm over being satisfied with whatever he's feeling okay to give today. I'm over feeling greedy for asking for more.

Yikes, in a dark space right now.

I just don't know how to unpack this with Ocean, anymore.

Everything else in our relationship is so good. Perhaps I need to work on being at peace about this. Especially since, when I'm honest with myself, I'm actually okay with not being sexual with him right now (go figure?!). I don't feel powerfully drawn to him that way. It's more like, I miss it, miss the memory, miss how easy it was, and I'm afraid if I accept the status quo, we'll be less likely to have that kind of intimacy again. I feel like we've allowed our sexual energy to be so starved that we simply don't feel it anymore. I want it back. I'm willing to try to make fire with sticks. He isn't.

Ocean's approach is patience, hope. I know. But also an unconcernedness which I find at times callous. When other people are really into fucking me, the contrast with Ocean is more pronounced. He's happy for me, getting sex elsewhere, happy that I'm happy. And of course I'm enjoying myself. But, yeah, it makes me less patient with Ocean, even panicked.

He's at Menrva's at the moment, a dinner and movie date with her and Bert. I'm appreciating being home alone.

I wonder if we should agree to be non-sexual for now. It could relieve the pressure of constantly revisiting this. Or maybe we should get some counselling. Or maybe I should learn how to tie myself up effectively so he has to help me out. Quarter joking.

Really, I just don't want my sexual connections with other people to erode my relationship with Ocean. The blackest fear is that it's already too late for that.

Dark moods.

Ah.

Grotto's been especially beautiful in bed recently. The gentlest touch. A worshipful mouth. I love him so much. And I love the deep roots of my relationship with Ocean that makes these other relationships possible, lets them flourish.

Maybe we're doing okay.

This weekend, Ocean and I are heading away for a few days, to the city I'm moving to soon. There's a family event, plus I have a meeting with the person I'm replacing at my new work. Travelling together has always been healing for us. I'm looking forward to it.

[fuchka]

I'm bitter, tetchy, closed, volatile. Just made a lemon into lemonade to remind myself I don't want to feel like this. I'm not interested in wallowing. I'm interesting in owning my fears, but not being owned by them.

Also remembered that my life is not so much the "life gives you lemons" quote. More like "when life gives you lemonade, appreciate it."

Last night I asked Ocean if it would be easier to decide to have a non-sexual relationship for now.

He said "do you want that?"

I said, "for me, no. But if that's what you want then it could make it easier for me if we had a decision like that. I don't mean forever, just for now, until further notice."

He replied "no, I don't think that's a good idea. It's not what I want."

We fell asleep in each other's arms. Easy, uneasy, dreams.

[nycindie]

Last night I asked Ocean if it would be easier to decide to have a non-sexual relationship for now.

He said "do you want that?"

I said, "for me, no. But if that's what you want then it could make it easier for me if we had a decision like that. I don't mean forever, just for now, until further notice."

He replied "no, I don't think that's a good idea. It's not what I want."

At that point, I would have been tempted to say, "Well, then fuck me, dammit! I want you!" and get on top of him. It's so difficult to be in that place and let it be. But I think you have to take steps to initiate it more, even if there is rejection. Keep trying and letting him know it isn't acceptable to you.

A "rut" is something you have to climb out of, not sit and wait for it to change on its own. My husband and I were in that no-sex rut for over three years (!), and then he left me and blamed it all on me, saying I didn't want to have sex with him. But I did! I would lay there next to him and cry in silence because I had come to bed hoping it would happen and he would already be asleep. Every now and then, I would say "We should have sex," but I still waited for him to initiate because he was the one who was rejecting it -- but it never happened.

So do something about it. Don't hang onto hope and just wait like I did.

[JaneQSmythe]

... The other morning, I tried to initiate some fooling around in bed in the morning with Ocean, and he said he didn't have time and/or wasn't in the mood and/or had to get going for work. Can't remember what combination of the usual responses...

...This was the morning after a conversation I tried to have with him, the previous night, about if he could let me know when a good time was, for sex. Because it seems like it's never a good time. And he said, sleepily, "I don't like to plan these things." We said we'd talk about it later.

Argh. I'm not dealing with this well. As in, I don't have good strategies. I'm honest and speak up when things happen that hurt me, like the above, but maybe I'm not timing it right, or phrasing it right. I'm heard but nothing seems to change. Well. I'm even not sure what I want to change. I just don't want things to be this way.

...He is sorry he doesn't feel in the mood. I am sorry he doesn't feel in the mood. We love each other, forgive each other, hug and kiss and sometimes - though too rarely - sweetly fuck.

Other times I'm mad, I hate him for making me feel un-sexy, ignore-able. I'm wildly, non-rationally, irate. I hate him for being too goddamn lazy to sacrifice anything, his morning news, his muesli, his new favourite book, for trying to get in the mood. For not seeing any point in cultivating a sexual mood, not having any hope that feeding the beast might make it grow. He's really quiet in sex, almost unresponsive, and this attitude makes it feel especially bad sometimes when I'm randy, coaxing him, and he says nothing. God, man, what are you feeling? Talk to me.

....Ocean and I have scheduled time tomorrow but I almost don't want to see him. I don't want to not have sex with him. And, actually, I don't want to have sex with him. It's like I'm over it. I'm over grappling with this issue. I'm over being satisfied with whatever he's feeling okay to give today. I'm over feeling greedy for asking for more.

I had meant to respond to this post sooner - so much of what you said here resonated with how I was feeling with regard to MrS. (This was before Dude came into the picture.)

His libido, never very high, had fallen further. My frustration simmered. I felt un-sexy, fat, un-attractive. (This was exacerbated by the fact that, we were actually trying to conceive during a portion of this time - more pressure.)

I found myself sulking, angry, crying - even caught myself engaging in passive-aggressive cries for attention (something I can't stand). It had to stop - I was driving myself crazy. Sulking, angry, crazy people are not people that I would want to sleep with either! So - I took stock. I AM sexy - I actually don't need him to validate that. I cultivated my relationship with myself - to get back to that person I remembered being. It's not that I didn't want to have sex with him (I did), but I didn't HAVE to. I put baby-making in the "if it happens" file - not a priority. After an intimate conversation/bonding evening - I would say - "I have to go to bed, but you have me a little worked up ;) - so if you hear my vibrator going when you come upstairs...feel free to join me.:p" I don't know that we had any more sex, but my perspective had changed - I didn't spend so much time feeling bad, spent more time masturbating, AND...sometimes he did join me. (Yea!)

In this climate, having good sex with other people frightens me a little. Ocean & I don't have regular sex these days. I don't want to get in the habit of enjoying fucking other people and having a largely non-sexual relationship with Ocean.

...He admits that he deprioritises this because he can, because he feels we're solid. And I can't deny that. Also, in a way, the fact we don't have sex keeps things simpler, gives us more time for other things. But I can't help questioning if this is wise, when this spare energy facilitates sexual relationships with other people, but not each other?

Occasionally I've asked him directly - do you think we'd have more sex with each other if we were monogamous? Rational as ever, he says: maybe. Ah, the guilt used to overwhelm me. But really? Not being monogamous has kept me sane, when my libido has soared at times when his has stalled. Yes, maybe things would have been different libido-wise if we were monogamous. I don't know, and we'll never know. We just have to battle on.

... But also an unconcernedness which I find at times callous. When other people are really into fucking me, the contrast with Ocean is more pronounced. He's happy for me, getting sex elsewhere, happy that I'm happy. And of course I'm enjoying myself. But, yeah, it makes me less patient with Ocean, even panicked.

...Really, I just don't want my sexual connections with other people to erode my relationship with Ocean. The blackest fear is that it's already too late for that.

For us, what ended up happening was that it was knowing that I was getting my sexual needs met elsewhere that allowed MrS to figure out how to ... balance my needs with his. He admits now, looking back, that when I was feeling desperate for him he was almost afraid to let anything that could lead to sex happen because he was afraid that he wouldn't "get into it" and then he would feel bad for disappointing me.

Now he finds that he can just let go - take things to whatever level they get to, please me/please himself/whatever - and that he always has the option of sending in a pinch-hitter (Dude). Taking the pressure off has REALLY improved...everything. As we had more and more positive experiences...his confidence and enjoyment of sex rebounded.

Now, this didn't happen right away - the dynamic between the three of us evolved and stabilized to get us here. But...yeah...I've had more (and more varied) sex with my husband in the last 6 mos than I did in the 6 years before Dude entered the picture.

I've taken up too much space on your blog - feel free to PM me if you want to talk.

JaneQ

[fuchka]

THANK YOU nycindie and JaneQSmythe for sharing your personal perspectives. I often write when my moods are tumultuous. Usually I keep this writing to myself or share with only one or two people. Mostly this is because my perspective can be wildly misleading at such times - a speck is a mountain, a shadow is eternal night - and I am at once expressing those surging emotions as well as trying to unpack what's triggering me. The mess of it can come out, in writing, as overly dramatic (I think). As if my whole world actually revolves around this issue. But anyway, I'm glad this time that I vented on my blog here because both of your stories have helped me clear pathways through the shrubbery of what I am experiencing.

I had a great trip away with Ocean, the last few days. We both needed it, individually and as a couple. He unfortunately had a tense situation with Menrva just before we left, which coloured the holiday a bit. Not much, but he was a little strained from it. They only managed to sort things out once we got back into town yesterday. Poly makes for some inconvenient timing sometimes. You need the ability to be patient, strategies to put off, as painlessly as possible, dealing with things, until you can. Holding patterns.

Re: sex with Ocean, I had to get honest with what I wanted. I wanted to want him like I used to. I wanted him to want me. I wanted us to make fireworks in bed, have to drag ourselves away to daily tasks. Not the other way round, not sex being a task we have to complete so we can feed crumbs to our skeletal libidos.

Trying to feel desire that you don't feel is, to me, a foolhardy goal. It was easier for me to resent Ocean's frequent lack of desire for me than admit my frequent lack of desire for him.

Surely I couldn't be the problem - I love sex! I'm having heaps of it. When the other person really wants me, I'm on fire. It must be something about him not wanting me enough. (These weren't my actual thoughts, but it was how I seem to have been unconsciously framing the issue to myself.)

A change of perspective (similar to JaneQSmyth's) is really helping me.

Ocean and I talked about being more at peace with the way we're intimate at the moment. We made a commitment to being as open and generous as possible, if one of us is in the mood. And to be upfront and direct about our desires.

So yes. Pouncing will happen.

And yes. What we have is so good, most definitely enough.

[fuchka]

Dropped in to see Grotto at his place last night. "I have a confession to make," he said. "I've read your blog."

Ohhhh dude. The thought of it sucked the life out of me.

Yesterday evening I was at a dinner til late, and wasn't replying to texts. The dinner started at 6pm but went on til nearly midnight. I'd said to Grotto that it shouldn't go on too late and would get in touch with him afterwards to see if there was time to meet him. He'd gotten worried, and then thought I might not be doing okay, so he checked my blog (on here). Then read through it all.

We'd talked about the blog before, and decided (at his suggestion) that I keep this space for me, my own private thoughts. Although of course it is a public blog, he thought it would be better if my partners didn't read it so I didn't have to consider them when I wrote. And since then, I've written as if it's my own sandbox. Not holding back. Ah, love...

I didn't feel betrayal or upset that he read the blog after agreeing not to. I guess that is an issue but I was truly not bothered by that aspect. I know he loves me, and I trust him... he did it out of a compulsion, coming from a place of care, and then got hooked I guess. I know what that's like. Plus he 'fessed up straight away. So, for whatever reason really, I wasn't angry at him for 'breaking my trust' or whatever.

What I did feel was intense, overwhelming... shyness? Shame? Embarrassment? I was struggling for the words, but it was huge and I didn't enjoy it.

While I was taking some time out to process, his flatmate Patch came over and chatted with me. I told him roughly what had happened, that I was sorting through emotions... P suggested maybe it was that I felt "exposed," which fit better than other words I'd been thinking of, but still didn't quite get at it.

It felt awful, though, whenever I turned my mind to it. I told Grotto it didn't bear thinking of. My mind kept tripping on particular posts, things I'd said, the ways I'd said them, and I drowned in the shame. Not shame that I had written those things, but shame that Grotto (someone who knows me, knows the circumstances, knows the people involved, etc) had read it. He knows the turns of phrase, my inner fucked-uped-ness, the gross, childish fantasies that I've constructed out of the scrap paper reality of my relationships.

Oh, it's not so bad, right?

I imagined if he had asked first. I probably would have been very very very shy and awkward, but let him read (in the end.) So now it was as if, him having read it first, I was getting all the shyness in a giant ball post-fact. Here, baby, have some nausea.

My upset over this was making Grotto sad. He said "sorry" over and over. Said he wished he hadn't. Was beating himself up. We needed to talk.

In bed, I try again to explain what I'm feeling. He can see I'm affected, but isn't exactly sure why. Hmm.

I say, "you know how some people sing in the shower, just by themselves? And are really shy of singing in public? I guess I feel like that person, if they realised they'd been overheard. That someone had been outside, listening, the whole time. Mortified."

"Self-concious"

"Yes! That, exactly."

We talk some more. He told me he loved the way I wrote, and he was scared that I would stop writing. I said, as long as he didn't keep reading, I wouldn't be changing the way I wrote. I do trust him, and nothing's really a secret from him, so it's not actually huge harm if he reads. (Though, there really could have been some secrets, about other people, on here. Thankfully not.)

Hearing he liked my blog helped ease my panic a little. I wondered if it would help to feed myself more positive comments. My mood was weighed down by so many specific bits of the blog I was shy about. The names I'd picked for people. My optimism, my devastation, my hopes, my whimsy. I wanted to move on, but felt stuck.

So I asked him to indulge me in an experiment. Can we apply the democratic process to our emotions? If there is x amount you are feeling shit about, can you counter that with y amount of counterbalance? "Tell me more," I said, "more about what you liked about what you read." Eep! So shy! I cuddled into him hard.

He told me he could hear my voice, it was like listening to me talk. He could tell I had a lot of love for all the people involved, and that shone through. That particular phrases struck him for their poetry. That my joy was a joy to experience.

Yes, this is working. I do feel better.

"It's like hearing someone sing in the shower and telling them afterwards they have a beautiful voice. I know you still feel mortified about it, but you do have a beautiful voice."

I love you, Grotto. If you're still reading - fuck you, seriously ;) But. I love you.

[fuchka]

The post I intended to write today, before I got derailed by Grotto's confession:

I have a plump envelope ready to post to Djuna. It's been a long time coming; one of the letters I wrote in January, oops. A recent e-mail from her had a nudge about it. Shit, just realised I still haven't told her about Plinth. Next time we Skype, gotta do this.

Plinth isn't doing too well at the moment, dealing with some volatile head weather. I'm not close enough to him (well, we don't have the history) for me to be a Known Shoulder to lean on, though I have said I'm here to listen if he needs to, massage, whatever. Hope to catch up with him over the next few days. Whatever's going on can't be helped by his job situation at the moment. He does shift-work (manual labour, mmmmmmm, his sweat is so delicious, ah, where was I? oh yeah.) Recently they've been cancelling shifts on him at the last minute, or calling him up then sending him home after his minimum hours. Really not worth waking him up at 4am for, poor dude. He's looking for another job.

Meanwhile, the apartment Ocean and I are staying at has gone to month-by-month lease. It's a tad expensive, even for the area, and we've been considering moving. As it happens, new flatmates at Plinth's house dropped out at the last minute, and they are looking for replacement housemates asap. Plinth mentioned it to us, and Ocean thought he might see if that would work for him.

This triggered a couple of responses from the 'metamour' department.

Grotto: shaken by the thought of me moving in with Plinth, when I'm not living with him (Grotto). Though I'm moving to a new city in two weeks, for six months, he was thinking what happens when I get back into town. More things to unpack here. Living arrangements are a work in progress for us. Officially I still live with Ocean. We've toyed with the idea of living together the three of us (probably in the context of a large share-flat scenario), but we're not there yet. I stay at Grotto's 2-3 nights a week, but most of my things are at Ocean's. Hmm. I've flagged this to tease out later

Menrva: unhappy with the thought of Ocean shifting to the other side of town. It's not really that far, but it's a matter of being slightly north vs slightly east of the CBD. It would mean an extra 20-30 mins travel to see each other. Although, they'd still be at the same workplace, and there's a spare room at Menrva's house... But, anyway, she's sad about the idea and has helped Ocean apply for a one-bedroom apartment that is currently available in the same building that she lives.

Eek! When Ocean told me, I had a flood of emotions... He should do what's best for him. He's basically moving in with Menrva? Should I move my stuff out? She wants him to live close to him, but would that be good for him? Hoping he'd be able to make a decision that works, won't add stress, make him sad. Concern for him, annoyance at Menrva, combined with being pleased she cares about him, helps him out - messy! Reminded me a lot of how I felt about Djuna when she wanted Grotto to stay in our old city, even though work was better for him here. I didn't want to be involved in the decision, I wanted Grotto to make up his own mind.

I had a vested interest (I wanted Grotto to move here) but I thought that should be put aside, as far as possible, to focus on his needs. I guess you can't help having personal motives, when your partners are deciding where to live, but... ah. I'm big on independence. For myself, I'm quite strong on doing what's fruitful for you, personally, first & foremost. How this fits in with other people certainly does factor in, and it's obviously not clear-cut (how a move will affect a relationship is an aspect of how it will affect you, etc) but I've found it to be a useful priority for me. I don't move or stay entirely for someone else. I do it for me. If it doesn't work out, I don't want to feel resentment towards anyone.

I'm not especially keen on Ocean living with Plinth (would be funny, but I'm not fussed either way), but I'd like him (for him) to be in a space he feels positive about, and comfortable in. And, for me, my only thought is that we ultimately want to live in a shared living situation rather than living by ourselves. Ocean has the same long-term goal, but short-term he's needed some personal space, and wanted to live in a place with just the two of us. Recently, the ideas we've had about places to move have been when rooms have become available in houses where friends live. So, for him to move to another one-bedroom place is a different trajectory. Maybe best for him at the moment, but... we need to talk :)

This Monday is Ocean & my 7-year anniversary, from when we first got together. I have a telephone appointment with him in 5 mins to chat about what we should do. (He's been at a conference Easter weekend). Yup, our lives are full, functional.

Spending the day with Grotto today. Heading out for a walk soon, then doing some writing. May be helping another friend with babysitting in the evening. I'd love to watch him change a nappy. Might make him Nappy Monitor for the night, hehe.

[nycindie]

^^ Omigosh, Fuchka, you are so-o-ooooo cute! (how you wrote about Grotto reading your blog - loved the last sentences)

And yes, you're a wonderful writer.

[fuchka]

nycindie - your reply was quite a surprise, haha. Had no idea I'd come across as cute! Glad you like the way I write. Thanks for your encouragement <3

The last couple of days, I've made my way through my blog, reading with Grotto's eyes. Wasn't so scary, actually.

I told Ocean that Grotto had read my blog, and asked him if he was also curious to read. He said he was. Hmmmmm. I'll sleep on it. I feel like if they get to see inside my bonnet, I'd like to read some of their thoughts & reflections too. Not that I need perfect symmetry - just a flash or two, I reckon.

Today's been perfect. Ocean is my April Fool. Seven years ago today, we made out for the first time under pine trees in the folds of our home city, where an island of lush swamp forest has been preserved from urban encroachment. It's one of our touchstone places, and I look forward to being back there someday.

For now, we're big city livin. Spent our anniversary well. Sleeping in (when's the last time we did that?), amateur gymnastics to get out of bed, walking to one of our favourite local cafes for breakfast, getting lost and amazed in the newly gentrified suburbs flourishing in the lee of multi-storied public housing estates.

Back at home, we started painting the didgeridoo we'd made together at the festival we went to over New Years - a project that's been on our to-do list for a while. We've decided to try to finish it before I leave in two weeks. Needs 5-6 hours more solid work. A couple of Saturday afternoons should do it.

Being creative with Ocean can be a tricky thing. I tend to dominate, and we aren't always gripped by each other's ideas. It's usually more enjoyable to work side-by-side on our own projects than work together on the same thing. Learning how to co-create art has been a fruitful activity for us, and it was lovely to share the design and painting between us. Tiring, though.

By evening we were spent, lazing in pools of ourselves listening to music. I'd made hot chocolates out of an Easter bunny (melt and whisk with milk and chilli powder? Yup, that works.) Ocean was DJ, and I was digging his tunes - Little Richard, Chuck Berry, Roy Orbison, Fats Domino rubbing shoulders with Leonard Cohen, David Bowie, NIN, Tool ?! Heaps of tracks I hadn't heard before, c/o Grooveshark (http://grooveshark.com)

A last-minute decision to end the day with something special (given the occasion) and we were out again for a late night movie, then dinner at midnight at a nocturnal Italian pizzeria near the theatre (though we ended up getting pasta and a burger, heh.) We walked the meal off over the thirty minutes getting home. The weather's turned chillier, and we had to cuddle for warmth. I love how our bodies feel when we're one dark shape moving through a moonlit city.

"Happy many-versary," he kissed me as he fell asleep. I'm sure there will be.

[fuchka]

Busy few days. Had a flat inspection at our place, so had to tidy for that. Ocean and I took the opportunity to do a rearrange of the place, and it's feeling more joyful. Decided to make the futon into a permanent couch, and swap rooms... I love the vitality of mixing things up a little :) The apartment isn't that big, but how we've got it set up now makes it feel larger, woo!

Last couple of days I also helped Grotto and his flatmate move, from a spot on the 22nd floor of one high-rise to a 21st-storey apartment in a building a few blocks away. It was quite a mission as there was a narrow window allowed for us to use the lift to move furniture into the new place. When I left this morning, it was almost all done. Just a few bits and pieces to be cleared out of the old place, and cleaning. I meant to head round again this evening, but was too buggered. Once I got home from work, I crashed out. No matter: I recently heard from Grotto that they've all finished up. Great. Apparently Bijou had gone round to give them a hand, too. Yay for the power of multiple people :)

Menrva's sick at the moment. Ocean spent some time with her today, and while I empathise with her being sick, I'm nervous I'll catch the cold too. It's more I really don't want to be down with anything right now, I'm enjoying being well so much, and would like to have a happening final fortnight in the city before I leave mid-month. Maybe I should dose up on something fortifying as a preventative.

I've found infections to be one of the perils of poly; the germs definitely do the rounds. Though, I've been known to be quite the Typhoid Mary in the past :D So, we'll see!

Seems Ocean is going to stay in the current apartment. It's on the pricier side of what we can afford, but it's a happy place for him. It'll definitely be warm in winter (and he tends to get sad(d) in the cold) so it may be worth it overall. I've written an e-mail to the agent see about a rent reduction, but we're not counting on it. Has anyone in the history of tenancies ever successfully negotiated a rent decrease?! :p Maybe it happens, I don't know. We thought there was no harm asking.

Grotto and his flatmate wanna take me out for dinner as a thank you for being shifting buddies. Mm, I reckon I'd like that. Can't help dreaming we'll end up having each other for dessert.

Not really, though. In my fantasy, it is wonderful. But the reality would likely be most awkward. I suppose. Mm. Only one way to find out, I guess...

Gosh I'm glad that I have friendships that have flourished despite blatant, foolhardy crushes.

At a dinner the other night with Ocean, Bert, Menrva and a bunch of other folks, I invited a friend who had been meaning to try out that particular restaurant for a while. Afterwards, Menrva had asked Ocean if this friend was someone I was seeing. Ocean had replied "no, that's one of her friends who she doesn't fuck." Ah, whoops... am I really that bad? Haha!

I've been thinking more about letting partners read my blog, and I'm leaning towards a preference for keeping this my own space. It would probably reduce any bad dissonance. For example, as I was writing above about the dinner invite from Grotto, I worried a little that he might read this and feel more obliged to follow through on it. I wouldn't want to add that pressure. Also wouldn't want to be writing things here as hints to them, even subconsciously.

On the other hand, if I am staunch against these tendencies, and ask my partners to adjust for this when reading, it could work. Anyway, there's no rush on this. I'm gonna continue with the status quo for now.

[fuchka]

A whirling dervish of a weekend. Lots of dancing - joined a week-long intensive that started Friday eve. A 1.5-2hr class each day plus about the same again in practice if I'm going to keep up. Most excellent insanity.

Friday night: Grotto and I went out to a poetry gig. The words, vibe, location all very good. Walked the 40 mins home with him. Managed to choke on the same bottleneck we always do. Something happens to unsettle me. I want time/space to think on it. He instantly wants to know what's on my mind, let's unpick this together baby right now. I feel rushed by his impatience. He feels infuriated by my retiscence. etc etc etc

At one point it definitely felt like we were fighting but it's all kissed and talked out now :) And, as always, I feel we've covered more ground.... and yes, we're getting better at this.

Saturday: morning making-sure-we've-made-up sex with Grotto. Dance. Art date with Ocean to continue on Painting the Didgeridoo part two. Dinner with Merva, Bert and a couple of their work friends. Flatwarming at Grotto's new place (Ocean came with me, but bowed out early; Plinth turned up much later.) It was a stay-up-til-the-sun rises affair. A lovely crew of friendly folks. A Grand Time Was Had By All.

Sunday: brunch at Grotto's place (hash browns, avocado, and pimped up baked beans - added onions, mushrooms, chilli & dark chocolate and topped with grated cheese). Home to a quick touchbase with Ocean. Dance... 3 hours of it... oh. my. god. Pain. But so happy.

Plinth lives near where my dance is, so I got in touch with him afterwards to see what he was up to. He invited me round for dinner... fuck, that boy knows what to do with a kitchen. <3 <3 <3 We got plenty of conversation in, including a couple of topics on which I'd wanted to make sure we were on the same page. Was fading towards the end (not having had much sleep) so scooted home...

Now it's nearly midnight. Have slipped into bed beside Ocean. He is still, and warm, and peaceful. I will sleep well tonight.

[fuchka]

I've moved cities, started paid work. Plinth, Grotto and Ocean saw me off at the airport bus. Watching them walk away as the bus left, with me a small face inside, was pretty poignant but also heart-warming. They are such good people. I'm gonna miss them.

Grotto came to my going away work drinks (for the place I was volunteering at before I moved). The manager there had previously met Ocean and knew him as my husband. On another occasion I'd said that we weren't monogamous and that I had another long-term partner, but it didn't seem to register. Anyway, I introduced Grotto as my "common law husband," which I actually quite liked doing. Made sense in the context of people who think of Ocean as my husband. Yeah. I may use that one again.

Finally scored a Skype date with Djuna today. Was cute to see her, catch up on the goss. Told her about things with Plinth... hmm... she was concerned about me hurting people by getting close to them but not having time to develop a relationship. (It felt a tad awkward discussing this with her as it has been a tension between the two of us in the past.) She reminded me that most people do fewer things because they realise the limits of their time. She said that it's really easy to move forward in a relationship but painful to pull back. That kind of thing.

Grotto had also been asking me what I'm going to do if Plinth wants more time with me than I do or can give.

I'm really relying on Plinth being self-aware enough to know his needs, and voice them. And on myself to express myself well and not over-reach.

But, this is his first experience with poly. And my first experience of being this... involved... romantically. I worry, a little. Especially reading this on AnnabelMore's blog:

I feel so bad for the new-to-poly people who try dating folks in Clay's situation, who have more than three partners. People who are used to being mono, used to being someone else's whole romantic world, and who suddenly get such a limited slice of time from someone they're feeling NRE with. It's HARD, but at least I have other relationships to focus on, at least I understand how difficult it is to manage this balancing act and can relate.

Well. I will write to him and see what his thoughts are.

Til then, I'm taking time to be By Myself. It's quiet, but quite lovely.

[fuchka]

Ocean moves house in the next couple of days. I'd been feeling bad about him having to do it by himself. Well, a lot of people offered to help, but the bulk of the work is tidying and packing our stuff (and, the majority of it my stuff) so the ability for others to help in that department is limited.

Luckily, it turned out there were some affordable flights for me to return to assist Ocean with the move. So - after only being away for a couple of weeks - I'm back! Was much too soon to return, really, and it felt a little stupid. But I'm really glad I came back for a short visit, particularly cos Ocean's been depressed.

He ran out of meds and didn't make sure he sorted a new script in time, so he had to stop abruptly. Cue a raft of gross side effects - bleargh :( It's been a long weekend here, so he's had to wait a few days before he sees the doctor. So quite apart from me being here to help him shift, he is also happy to see me for support and cuddles. Yay!

It's been lovely to get the chance to see Grotto and Plinth too. I haven't been away long enough to reeeeeally miss them, but ah - so good.

The few days before I got here, I had a couple of semi-serious e-mails back and forth with Plinth, teasing out my thoughts and concerns around time, energy, etc. I addressed some of the stuff that Djuna brought up in our Skype chat. It was good timing to have a chat with Plinth in person about these things. All is well. He's liking the relationship. Doesn't feel like I don't have enough to give him. Is feeling good all round. Told me he loved me, which he hadn't yet done - it's one of those loaded phrases for him. It hadn't bothered me, although I had noticed him avoiding the phrase. Even though it didn't change my understanding about the way he feels towards me, it was a wonderful experience... him holding me close to his warm body on a 21st floor inner-city balcony, wind whipping and whistling around us, hearing him say "I love you" when I didn't expect it <3 <3 <3

What was possibly more wonderful... actually, let's not compare, these two wonderful things are both grand in their own aspects... WE THEN HAD THE BEST THREESOME EVER (declared thus by Grotto). Oh. My. Fucking. God. Grotto, Plinth and I in bed, chatting. Plinth starts toying with my nipple, Grotto turns in to kiss my other one, while both my hands start lazily stroking their cocks. Gentle enough as a start...

This time no one got any sleep.

Some highlights: I'm kneeling at the end of the bed and crushing their balls in my hands: left hand on Grotto, right hand on Plinth. The boys are curled close into each other, with Grotto's head cradled by Plinth's shoulder (heart-stoppingly beautiful). Their arms cross over to masturbate each other. Yummmm

I'm sucking Grotto and Plinth's licking and finger fucking my ass

I choke Plinth HARD while Grotto does I'm not sure what but Plinth's eyes are wide and gorgeous. Is he saying "yes... more..."? I can't quite make it out, shh baby, just one more minute and then you can breathe

Plinth's roughing up Grotto's nipples, with his teeth and one hand, with the other slippery palm up and down Grotto's cock. I'm gnawing on Grotto's balls and teasing his asshole. A hoarse whisper from Grotto: "if you keep doing that I'm gonna cum", and within seconds he sprays everywhere, it's like a cum sprinkler seriously. Somehow this went horizontal in all directions (!?) Whatever, HOT

Grotto and I take our sweet time sharing Plinth's cock. All Plinth can do is lie back and moan. Everytime I glance up he looks more and more like Jesus, his arms out wide and his face in the throes of passion. When he cums, it's long and messy. There's a battle for the spoils and even Plinth takes his turn by cleaning up my face at the end

Wow.

The next morning, Plinth dropped me back to my (Ocean's) place. I told him: "without meaning any more than this sentiment, and with no expectations... I could definitely get used to that." Here's hoping! Haha

This evening: dinner date with Ocean. He said he's been craving sex recently (hallelujah) so... we'll see how that goes. Trying not to be SUPER EXCITED ABOUT IT OKAY MAYBE I'M FAILING. I can't help it; good sex often makes me hornier in general.

Oh, another cute thing about Grotto and Plinth together. They kept calling each other "bro", "man" and "dude" :D Like "yeah, bro, that feels good." "fuck, man, please, don't stop" etc. I LOVE THESE GUYS, seriously. How did I get so lucky?

[fuchka]

Exquisite dinner date with Ocean last night. He took me out to a restaurant he's been meaning to for ages, which is also a specialist vodka bar. We ate and drank slowly, sharing everything. My first pay comes through tomorrow, so he joked that the date was on me :)

When we got home, we spent time by ourselves. Him reading a novel, me watching some great speeches by NZ politicians (http://zeborahnz.livejournal.com/127154.html) from earlier this month, as they finally passed same-sex marriage legislation. Doing our own thing, in the same room, is one of the peaceful pleasures I miss when we're long distance.

A little later, I smell something cooking in the kitchen (mustard seed? curry leaves?) It's nearly midnight. "Are you hungry again?" I ask. Nah, turns out he's cooking lunch for tomorrow. I'm impressed! (It was very good actually. Rice, dhal and jackfruit curry. Most delicious dishes)

When we eventually make it to bed, I'm nervous we'll fuck this up. But we don't :)

It felt a little like speaking a language you haven't for a while. You stumble through the sentences, with verbs in the wrong tense and a forgotten word or two... but it quickly gets better. "Rusty" is an apt metaphor. Ah, we gotta ride this bicycle more often.

This morning, Ocean was numb, sad. Didn't want the day to begin. Continuing stressors for him are his work, and tension with Menrva. The latter can be very hard, actually, and he's had some fairly bad patches of late. I like Menrva. She's a fascinating, kind and caring person. But she has some ways of relating to Ocean, as a partner, that seem rather awful. This is only Ocean's second serious relationship (his relationship with me was the first) and he's not always managing to manage.

Compounding those two things in some mysterious algorithm is the general chemical shit of depression plus running out of meds. He's not sure if he can get a doctor's appointment today, to renew his script. Hmm. Hmm. I made porridge with frozen cherries, and two cups of green tea. We sat next to each other and said nothing over breakfast. It's so hard to see him like this! I do my best to be supportive. Very glad I'm here.

Various packing/moving-related things to do today, by myself while Ocean's at work. Getting these things done is the best way I can be a strength to him right now, I think. We shift tomorrow. Next day, I'm back at work in the other city (I'm doing the cheeky "fly in, and go straight to work from the airport" thing. Such a pro.)

Sleeping here with Ocean tonight and at Grotto's tomorrow night (as his apartment is across the road from where I need to catch the airport bus). We're both still buzzing from the high of sex with Plinth, and very open to more. It'll be nice to have a two-some though, and would be my preference.

The more I adventure out, the surer I am of how important it is to honour and nourish the solid limbs that support my growth.

[nycindie]

When we eventually make it to bed, I'm nervous we'll fuck this up. But we don't :)

Mmmm, happy for you.


The more I adventure out, the surer I am of how important it is to honour and nourish the solid limbs that support my growth.

Wonderfully worded! I may have to steal it. :)

[fuchka]

nycindie - thanks, sex coach! ;)

It's kind of hard to keep it up long-distance, but I'm glad we at least stirred the pot :D

[fuchka]

I'm feeling something that I think is broadly "jealousy". It hurts. It is challenging. I'm not sure what to do about it.

Grotto and Bijou have been getting along better, and he's really enjoying himself. I think they're good for each other. So what's my problem?

First, straight-up jealousy I think. Competition. The points matter and she's winning. In the worst of this emotion, thoughts of her disgust me because she's doing it better than me (or so I feel, at those times.) She's sexier, foxier, more seductive, more delicious. She's experienced in getting what she wants. She's shameless. She has a salacious history. She's amazing in bed and conversation. I hate the way she flirts, I hate her heels, I hate the look of her on Grotto's arm. Woah! What happened to compersion?

It feels crazy to experience my defences going up like this. I read a quote today: "You only can't stand what you don't understand." Nice. That's a key I'm definitely gonna keep turning in the lock of this. Though, it's not that I can't stand Bijou (despite my virtiol above.) It's just that (and this could be no more than a refraction of my jealousy), I'm not sure I trust her. I'd like to. I hope I can. But... I don't yet.

I have been trying to shift focus, to instead question if I trust Grotto to have my back. That I know. He really does. But Bijou? She courts the game, salivates at the hunt, and out-plays the players. Grotto said that she's been mellowing out recently, dropping her guard. Hmm. I mean, good for her :p But it's unsettling to me that she had cooled towards Grotto until as soon as I was leaving and then, BAM. She's all into him. It could be entirely unrelated timing, but it's not much fun for me.

Then, there are things about Grotto and me that need work. I love him, he is a very kind person. I always enjoy spending time with him. We have a great sexual connection, and easy conversations. But there's stuff beyond this that I need (or desire?) from our relationship, that we've only scratched the surface of. I'm unsure if he is willing and able to put time into them.

For example, one thing that really attracted me to him at the start of our relationship was a shared passion for community building... and I still don't have many concrete experiences of that working out. I also don't see him actually putting effort into changing that (but maybe I'm impatient, or only focusing on the not good enough aspects. I'm suspicious of my perspective at the moment.)

Some of the things Grotto & Bijou share (drinking, drugs, a deeper appreciation of hedonism? I guess) isn't really my scene. I dabble a bit but I'm cautious of how messing with your brain chemicals can affect your energy and colour your world in a way that means you can't connect without those things. It bores me to get endorphined up and party every weekend, and sometimes mid-week too. I mean, it's the same shit every time, rinse and repeat. Pills and lines. Broke and hungover. There's comradeship in that, for sure, but it's not mine.

And yeah, I know that it's mostly my deal that this isn't my personal buzz right now. I have other priorities (e.g. creativity, politics) that I want to Do Better At. I feel like I've been dropping the ball on certain aspects of what's important to me. So a large part of this "jealousy" could simply be my own disatisfaction with what I'm up to. Hmm. Complex.

I've had some bad to average conversations with Grotto about this stuff. He thinks we should see each other in person and talk it out. I'm ambivalent. I want to see him. I'm sure we'd manage to fuck the pain away, and cuddle chats have always proven to be effective at untangling issues for us. On the other hand, I feel like the space is good for me right now. I feel like I'm detoxing from something, and getting perspective that I need. (That's an awful analogy, as if Grotto is a toxin ?! I dunno. Love, sex, intimacy is a heady cocktail. I hear the come-down from LSI can be vicious.)

As for me and Bijou, it struck me today that we both have a significant warrior heritage. My background is mixed: 1/2 warrior, 1/2 some mix of priest and merchant/craftsmith. She strongly identifies with her warrior background (from a different ethnicity altogether, but the principles are the same, right? Fight. Win. Profit.)

Maybe we need some peace-making rituals.

[fuchka]

Ocean had a minor operation the other day. Luckily the cost of it was covered because it was due to an accident where someone else was at fault, so they paid for it. The bills came to over $4,000! Quite a relief we didn't have to front up for that ourselves.

Menrva went to the hospital with him, and looked after him over the rest of the day plus the next morning (while he recovered.) She sent me pics of him post-op, all cute and swollen and anaesthetised. She also followed up with a couple of updates during the rest of the day. It made me feel really happy and grateful that she was around to care for him.

[fuchka]

Had a rough Saturday, but it all worked out in the end. A simple lesson for me: I need to get better at identifying and articulating my needs.

The jealousy around Bijou had grown to crazy levels because I wasn't speaking out about what I wanted. I was hoping that I would magically get the time I desired with Grotto - but of course, how was he to know this?

In my lowest moments on Saturday, it was bad. I wrote this:


Well, I'm pretty much failing at coping with shit around Grotto right now. He's finding it very hard because he doesn't know what's making me feel so bad. I don't really know myself, either.

I'm not very well.

We made some time to talk about it today over Skype. Things were going well till he got a call from Bijou. She was downstairs (she'd left her phone and wallet at his place) and needed to come pick it up. He apologised but told me he had to go. He said we could talk again tomorrow.

Rescheduling helped but... ah. Tomorrow felt so far away, and I could just imagine it being a recovery day for him, depending on what happened tonight. So not the most ideal time to spend.

Feeling shit about him dropping our conversation to hang out with Bijou. I understand it in my head, but my emotions are wild. Thinking of them being in a good mood together, chilling out, making out, while I feel all Unfinished Business - gah!

Why do I feel so fucking jealous?

I hate it, god!

I was very sad and upset. I tried to get over it, but it wouldn't be got over. Finally (several teary, manic hours later), I admitted to Grotto that I needed to talk, as soon as possible.

I knew he may have been with Bijou (turns out he wasn't, or at least wasn't alone with her) but I really needed his attention. I wanted to be able to wait til he wasn't doing other things. I wanted to be able to leave him be to enjoy his weekend. But I couldn't. I really needed to talk with him.

I had actually turned to Ocean first, who calmed me down a bit and reassured me that I wasn't generally a very needy person, and reminded me that it was no shame to need something sometimes.

As soon as I told Grotto I really needed to talk, he headed home and called me on Skype. We had a good conversation, and luxuriously slow masturbating side-by-side exploring mutual fantasies. Was exactly what I needed, and it made us both feel immensely better about Us. I know he is willing to do what it takes to make this work. I just need to understand my own head better, and share more with him.

I feel pretty average about my relationship skills at the moment. I've been treating Grotto quite unfairly, I think. Not communicating enough about things that bother me. But - it's getting better.

Even happier news... I asked Grotto if he thought he could visit me soon, and he has arranged for this coming Monday off work, so he can come up for the weekend! I was so excited when he bought tickets. We had to book a place to stay too because I'm living with relatives at the moment, and can't have a lover-who-isn't-Ocean here, bleh :cool: So, it's come to a bit of an expense already. Trying not to stress about that. Hard to be frugal and make distance relationships work!

Hmm. I've also been thinking of how I can improve how I feel towards Bijou, without directly confronting her with my tortured soul :p I'd like to have good vibes with her. I'm ashamed of my ugly around this. But... what's inside is what's inside. As much as it disgusts me sometimes, it's all I have to work with.

[fuchka]

Haha, god. I did a complete overshare today at work. Had an out of town trip with a colleague, and on the way home she started chatting about her boyfriend. It was great til she asked me if I had a boyfriend...

I started off ok. I said "hmm. My lovelife is complex."

And then I tried to explain further...

Shit, this was so much simpler when it was just Ocean and Grotto. Now I seriously sound like a whore. Which is not a bad thing but also doesn't feel quite correct... I love the sex but it's really not about the sex for me (well, not always!) Maybe I'm a lovewhore. Or an intimacywhore.

I wish I had better words to say what I want to say about my romantic relationships. Though I think the issue was more that she didn't have the words for it. It was something she'd never come across before. Her first reaction was "well, that's not something you hear every day."

I like her, and I hope that I didn't belittle her (?) in some way. Like, make out as if I'm this special person and she's just ordinary. Don't think I did though.

Sometimes I wish I could just share this stuff and it would be an ordinary thing. Like talking about how many brothers and sisters you have.

[nycindie]

Haha, god. I did a complete overshare today at work. Had an out of town trip with a colleague, and on the way home she started chatting about her boyfriend. It was great til she asked me if I had a boyfriend...

I started off ok. I said "hmm. My lovelife is complex."

And then I tried to explain further...

Shit, this was so much simpler when it was just Ocean and Grotto. Now I seriously sound like a whore. Which is not a bad thing but also doesn't feel quite correct... I love the sex but it's really not about the sex for me (well, not always!) Maybe I'm a lovewhore. Or an intimacywhore.

I wish I had better words to say what I want to say about my romantic relationships. Though I think the issue was more that she didn't have the words for it. It was something she'd never come across before. Her first reaction was "well, that's not something you hear every day."

I like her, and I hope that I didn't belittle her (?) in some way. Like, make out as if I'm this special person and she's just ordinary. Don't think I did though.

Sometimes I wish I could just share this stuff and it would be an ordinary thing. Like talking about how many brothers and sisters you have.

I think it's easiest to keep it simple, saying something like, "There are a few important people in my life, and we love each other, but we're not exclusive or traditional." That's similar to how I'd say it. You don't have to go into long explanations unless asked for clarification.

[fuchka]

I think it's easiest to keep it simple, saying something like, "There are a few important people in my life, and we love each other, but we're not exclusive or traditional."

nycindie, that's perfect. I wish my brain had a speed dial to your advice line.

Your suggestion reminded me that Ocean came up with a cool description the other day: "inclusive" (as in, not exclusive). I like it very much, though it's more of an in-joke than a concise way to explain our situation to other people.

(Incidentally, I also like "cryptic" as an alternative to "queer" - an idea that I stole from straight/cryptic crosswords. Again, a label that's perhaps more fun than useful)

[nycindie]

Thanks, but your brain is probably better off not connecting with mine sometimes! LOL

I think it's also a good thing to remember that we are not beholden to explain to anyone the ways we choose to live. We don't owe any explanations, justifications, defenses, or recitations of our life stories to just anybody who asks (this may be my introverted nature talking). So, if it ever feels like people are prying and asking too many questions, we can also say, "You know, that's a little too personal for me to answer. Let's change the subject, okay?"