View Full Version : In need of a debate about my musings...
10-05-2011, 11:08 PM
Hello everyone! :D
I'm very new here and to polyamory. I have many, many thoughts swirling around my head which need to be thrashed out. I find writing helps to clarify what's going on up there, and always find that talking things out helps hugely.
Please be patient with me though, I know I can jump from topic to topic quickly and be rather hard to follow at times. Please feel free to add comment or question to any part of what I say rather than trying to understand it as a whole if it makes little sense!
Thanks in advance for reading.
10-05-2011, 11:47 PM
Tonight I just feel the need to offload about my most recent experience of relationships. There is a lot of truth to share!
As I said in my introduction, I came out of a relationship quite recently - about 2 months ago. The relationship lasted a good number of years through many turbulent times.
It was a huge whirlwind at the start - within weeks of meeting he was living with me. Within a couple of weeks of that, he became profoundly jealous. To be fair, I had been a bit of a slut before we met. I had been in lots of previous relationships too; I was his first. He was my first love. Never had I felt what I did (and still do) for him...if soulmates exist, he is one. I would never have betrayed his trust, ever - he didn't believe that.
I did have attractions for other people; I see this as normal. I never dreamed of acting upon them. He had people offer him casual sex (I wonder if it's because we lived in a shared house where people could hear how compatible we were in the bedroom :p), which I was fine with. He, however could not even seem to fathom, let alone accept that I was faithful to him.
Because I loved him so deeply, I wanted him to be happy. His jealousy was tearing him apart. I didn't want to leave him, we were so happy together! After leaving that situation and letting every friendship go, his jealousy subsided and we did build a life together with some good friends in it.
We had many ups and downs, as many relationships do. Our love grew throughout. My respect for myself pretty much disappeared - his never really existed. This changed for both of us within the last year - many issues factor into this, which I won't go into now. We both started to love ourselves. I felt like I really loved HIM (not what he did for me) for the first time. I also started to love me. It was a revelation.
In this time I really became confident in myself, and able to express who I was. I wanted to share myself with him, so did. The last few months of our relationship were probably the best, although I think some of the things I shared about myself did not sit too comfortably with him. He wondered whether I really was the person he wanted to spend the rest of his life with. I also had a lower sex drive than him whilst he had a lower 'cuddle drive' with me. We were pretty incompatible on that front, as well as some of our core values being different.
Many issues aside from all this lead to the break up. Whilst we were in our discussions about our future (which lasted for months), I suggested we open the relationship up. I said I felt the need for more deep connections and that I knew he needed more sex than me. It seemed the ideal solution.
He is monogamous through and through though. He was simply not comfortable with that thought. It was fine by me; I would have stayed monogamous for him. But other factors meant we just did not feel compatible. For example we both want kids, but he would want genetic testing for any illnesses or differences. Whilst I believe others can do what they want, I am so completely 100% not ever going to do this with a life that's growing inside me. Another issue was my being unsure what the hell I want to do with my life. I know I want kids, I know that someday I would like to settle down. That is all I do know. He has a life plan mapped out, which began to feel threatened by me.
And then I met someone through work with whom I felt an intense connection with immediately. This felt like another 'soulmate' scenario (and still does). I disclosed this to my boyfriend - I also said that I never had any desire to ever pursue it, since the new man had a wife and family with whom he was intensely happy. I would never ever want to damage this, for his sake and his families. He is much older than me, which doesn't bother me in the slightest - we now work together. We have acknowledged that something being there but I think also have unspoken acknowledgement that romantically/physically, nothing will happen. We are a fucking amazing team though, doing what I feel to be profoundly important work with people who need support - this alone is more than enough for me. After hearing all this my boyfriend could accept it, he was happy for me - but he said 'You'd be better off with somelike him than me'. I think he was right, though at the time I wanted to stay with him.
In the ended, it felt like we were living together, loved each other, but no passion was fuelling the fire. It was very sad - I went through a lot of grieving before moving out. We both knew it was for the best although I don't think either of us said anything to the effect of 'it's over'. It just ran its course.
By the time I moved out, I had accepted the situation and just wanted him to be happy - to be able to lead the life he wanted to lead. I still regret that he's not poly...we are amazing together, but hey ho - the time I did have with him was so special, I feel very lucky to have had it. I still love him to bits, but I am happier out of that particular set-up. He's coming to terms with things at a slower pace than I did, but he's getting there. He's building the life for himself which he desires, which is just awesome :D
10-06-2011, 12:00 AM
To bring you up to where I am now, there is more to add.
A few years ago, I got back in contact with an old love. I call him that because I have loved him from the moment I met him, however for many reasons we never persued the physical attraction between us. He got on well with my now ex; no jealousy & no desires going on. He had a girlfriend too which helped, I think.
We were sporadically in contact. When I split up with my ex, I found that he had recently broken up with his partner. It was also mutual and they are still the best of friends. I now live in the same town as both of them & enjoy spending time with him alone, and them together. As a side note, my ex and I are trying to be friends although I think he's finding it harder than I am...I do wonder whether it's because he is monogamous and is battling with still loving me....
Anyway, back to old love. We have finally made our true feelings about one another known. I think we always knew, though it was never spoken. We just wanted the other person to be happy - that we weren't lovers was ok.
We have had discussions about polyamory, and are veeeery slowly taking steps forward together. We class ourselves as 'seeing each other'. We spend lots of time together, speak of our love, dreams, desires, ups, downs...lives in general. We are very sensual together, but have never even french kissed...yet.
We don't get to see each other as much as we'd like to, we're both have tons going on at the moment, but are currently half way through a conversation about polyamory & our future - our feelings about it all and how we'd like to progress. I can't wait until Friday...*sigh*
Anyway, I think that's enough for now. Look forward to hearing your views, or hearing your experiences, or anything really!
10-06-2011, 01:56 PM
The problem with sharing all this is that I have so much in my head that in my 'steam of consciousness' when I'm writing, I seem to miss out important things. For instance, it sounded like the only reason i didn't pursue my colleague was that he was in a monogamous relationship. This is bollocks. The main reason was that I dearly loved my last boyfriend & would never want to hurt him. I'm sure there are many other things that I've missed (& will miss) out. Guess I'll just have to deal with that.
Here is something I wrote some weeks ago now. I enjoy writing, and have many bits and bobs on my pc which relate to my inner thoughts. I thought I may as well put it in one place as I find them. I'm not shy of sharing my thoughts to total strangers :p
I am quite a shy person, although I LOVE to love!
I have to feel immense closeness to someone to feel truly relaxed, comfortable & fully myself with. I would prefer this feeling, or to be on my own, than socialising solely with people I don't feel this with. Having said that, I love meeting new people even without that connection - it does take me a while to relax with people & I find it much easier with someone more extroverted around sometimes; I'm more relaxed then (I do get on very well with fellow introverts though). I am confident in myself though, and find it quite easy to get on with people generally and tend to enjoy socialising in general.
I like to be with someone I love (be it friends, family or lovers) or to be alone, and I really do enjoy flirting. I feel this has implications for my sexuality. It certainly means I need to be with someone who has absolute confidence in my love for them, reinforced by open discussion, even when I may be spending time with/interested in others (be it family, friends or romantic interests/people I fancy or just random strangers!). If they had the same sexuality then that's totally cool - as is if they were monogamous! Honesty about feelings & relationships would have to be a given.
I am scared by my total obliviousness to what I want in the future - I know I want long term, committed, meaningful relationships (as well as lovely friendships with equally awesome people which aren't so deep - where we don't have to share our deepest thoughts or bodies to still enjoy each others company!). I don't know where I'll end up, what I'll be doing, whether I'll want to travel or live abroad. I know I want kids one day & ideally to raise them with the father around. I know I want to give birth, adoption is not out of the question either. Ideally I want more than 1...but who knows what will happen. This is definitely an important goal but I acknowledge potential that I end up in just about any possible scenario. I'm ok with that.
The thought of having kids now that I'm acknowledging and living with the fact that I love more than 1 person scares me - I don't want to fuck a kid up, or a lover - not anyone. I am scared my desires are too selfish for anyone else to fit in with. There are so many parts of my personality/morality that are pretty static - my desire to work with people/to make people happy through my job (i.e. I could happily craft for a living), my political views, my spirituality, many of my passions (nature, people, making things & lots of things related to all those), my environmentalism, my love of life and certain people that I don't think will change. Would this be enough for any partner(s) to accept? Would we be able to reach a happy lifestyle together that allowed us all to flourish? I hope so...
I've also kind of taken for granted that the fact that I am bi-curious, as well as my reasons for wanting polyamory would be cool with anyone I committed to. I know for sure that I would be happy if they loved other people! I have loved more than 1 before, and I still do. I love 3 men profoundly. I have loved them all deeply since the moment we met; if soulmates exist, they are them. I can't believe I'd want to be committed to anyone I didn't feel this with, ever. I also don't think I could be in a relationship with more than one person if they didn't get on. I, of course, also love my family very deeply as well as some friends. To some extent I feel a little bit of love for just about everyone. I have a lot of love to give, baby.
I really don't know how it would work in reality. Would it be ok to be totally open? I feel the need to be committed, but would anyone really be ok with me pursuing that with other people. I think i'd be fine if they did that but in reality how would it work? Would we be ok if we hooked up with mutual friends? Strangers? Would we cope with the jealousy? What happens if we love 2 people equally who wanted different things? What if I wanted to travel and my lovers other lover wanted to stay put? Would we be able to form a mutual agreement & be happy with the consequences? I think my main policy would be to do what made me happy and to support whatever made my lover(s) happy in each individual situation which arose. If they would abide by that, things would be smoother I imagine....am I worrying too much?
10-06-2011, 02:11 PM
Sunny, WHY do you have to live so far way??? You are someone I'd love to meet! Love what you're sharing here. You think too much. Just like me! :D Welcome to the forum.
10-06-2011, 02:28 PM
Well if you're ever in the UK, let me know. In the mean time, we're lucky to have this lovely resource! Look forward to getting to know you better.
I wonder whether most of us here 'think too much'...for me, I'm on a quest to understand myself & my place in the world. It's hard not to think sometimes. This is why meditation is good for me!
10-06-2011, 08:23 PM
So, I am so completely 100% in love with 'old love' (really must think of some good names for these people!). It is a comfortable, familiar love. It doesn't have the neon flashy lights of other relationships I've had. It has deep trust, affection, familiarity, respect & attraction. I want to make an effort for him, but don't feel I have to - I feel comfortable looking like i've been through a hedge backwards (& often do!). A very different kettle of fish, but just as tasty!
I feel horrendously guilty about this love. I'm not sure that my recent ex is ready to see me this happy with another - I fear it would cripple him whilst he's at his most vulnerable since he just doesn't seem to understand that for me, love is not finite. Loving someone else does not detract from the quality of concurrent loves. I think partly that is why I'm so keen on taking it slowly...another part is that 7 years was a long time, I'm recently out of it, and I don't want a rebound with someone so wonderful (well, not at all). At the moment I'm trying to avoid contact with the ex; a bit of a battle for me but I think he needs it despite not asking for it. I generally hate making assumptions but feel this is right.
I think I am just worrying way too much. Old love is happy taking things slow, happy enjoying the magnificent ride. We have much to learn about each other still (always will!) and certainly much to learn physically between each other. Emotionally, we're there. But emotions alone do not a solid relationship make.
Anyway, tomorrow is Friday, the day we get to spend many hours cuddling, talking, laughing, growing & generally basking in the loveliness of our time together. Can. Not. Wait....especially after receiving the most delightful message from him just now. I'm a very lucky woman indeed :D
Ex = The Geek
Colleague = The Rock (I don't know how much I'll be discussing him though, we'll see!)
Old love = The Cuddler
10-12-2011, 09:08 PM
Well this week I've had an amazing time with the Cuddler. Everything is so fantastic at the moment (you guys call it NRE) although given that I've known him so long it is different energy to anything I've felt before. Utter, sheer, fantastic bliss.
Had a lot of crap going on in life, lots to do, lots of worries etc so had a bit of a wobble & started worrying too much about everything (moi? worry?). It's funny, I am believe it or not usually quite a laid back person, able to take life as it comes. Instead of relish the unknown I have found myself trying to distance myself from it; to compartmentalise everything into neat and tidy boxes. In my life though, that just doesn't work. So I've kick started an old hobby of mine: lists! Man I love lists! I can't compartmentalise my life, and certainly not the life of others, but I can make my daily chores orderly :)
One struggle I've had recently is one with the Geek. I've noticed that he's been struggling somewhat with the whole 'let's be friends' thing so have started backing off & keeping quiet(er). This is working well; I realised that it was just selfish expressing my feelings when he is trying to 'move on'. Space is what's needed right now, even if he's not able to ask for it. What are other peoples views/experiences of being poly & having a monogamous ex?
10-18-2011, 05:38 PM
There no "like" buttons here, but I like this thread, too, and am watching with interest!
10-21-2011, 12:32 AM
Well, what's going on for me now?
I found myself really missing the geek. I was recently driving my old commute back to my old home with him for my studies - it made me realise how much I would love to be able to spend some time in the past. I suppose what I mean by that is I would like a few hours with him as it used to be. When we do eventually see each other again I know this will not be possible, and that makes me a little sad. I wish I could tell him I love him, gaze into his eyes, make him a cuppa and snuggle up to him and talk like we used to. I also just miss seeing his smile
I am really struggling on the time front at the moment. Since I moved area, I have been building some lovely friendships which I want to invest time in. I am also currently studying full time, which requires 3 hour daily commutes, 8+ hours studying/working and sleeping away from home 2 nights a week... feeling as though I'm neglecting it a bit as I am not studying as much as I feel I should. I don't feel I have enough 'me' time either...I am so thirsty for knowledge & experience and don't ever seem to feel quenched. I often find myself staying up late as I am tonight to gather myself. The result is that I end up tired, lethargic, prone to illness & with an awful memory - it makes me feel as though I achieve less. Despite knowing this I am finding my habits hard to break and it's getting frustrating. I am beginning to feel very stressed by the situation as I just don't feel there's enough time for everything that is important to me, I'm at a loss as to what to do.
On old love front, things are magical! The depth of our love is astounding, the time we have together infrequent, precious and wonderful; the contact we have between these times very comforting. Things between us seem very profound yet very simple & that is exactly what I want and need. He also seems pretty damn happy too! I feel so very lucky and grateful to love and be loved by someone so amazing.
We don't know what we want in our lives really - he has ambitions of further studies/career development, getting a mortgage...beyond that all is unknown. I have a million ambitions but can only focus on my studies right now. I feel that my priorities have been clarified lately as I'm not worrying so much about whether 'what I want' will happen. I don't know what I want beyond the next 2 years and can start to accept that better meaning that what I want is already happening but I just want more of it.
At times I do worry that I'm not good enough for him. He's given me no reason to think that - quite the opposite in fact! But seeing his many strengths sometimes makes me feel weak - this is silly, I know. I know we have different strengths and see that as a good thing, so why do I often worry and feel inferior?? I'm not sure I know for myself what I see as my strengths, I can only see what I want to improve & that is everything! Not that I dislike myself; I don't - I just feel the stay I stop striving to improve is the day I die.
Blimey my mind seems complicated when I put it into words! My biggest, perhaps only, battle is with myself.
10-21-2011, 01:25 AM
There no "like" buttons here, but I like this thread, too, and am watching with interest!
Thanks bassman! Seeing that people enjoy reading this has inspired me to write again today and it helped me - thanks again :)
03-08-2012, 04:50 PM
It's been a long time, so I thought I'd do some writing...
Things have changed on some fronts.
I am now in a serious relationship with the Cuddler. Things are wonderful!
I met up with the Geek a while ago which was really nice - a lot less awkward than I feared. I am more comfortable loving him silently from a distance. I miss him deeply, but I can now accept the situation much better than I did before.
I still feel the same about the Rock. He mentioned polyamory/nonmonogamy (i forget the precise term) a couple of times, which threw me. I said I had similar thoughts myself but given that this was in work time we didn't go into it any more than that.
I seem to have hit a bit of a brick wall however. The Cuddler knows that I am bicurious and polycurious (i use these terms because everything is as yet internal, I have not acted upon these desires). He repeatedly tells me that I am everything he desires. I feel guilty that despite loving him so completely and deeply I still would like to pursue my desires. I need to talk about these feelings with him more, but am scared to.
I keep justifying my silence with the 'it's not the right time' argument. I also know that there's no way I have time to have more than one relationship right now, I barely have time for 1! I suppose this makes me feel that it's okay not to have discussed things fully, as they don't really apply right now. If I'm not careful though I'll have kept schtum for too long and end up hurting him...
I guess I also have fears that I won't be able to find anyone with whom I would want a relationship when the time is right. I also worry about the future in terms of having children - whether my desires are compatible with the Cuddlers.
How the bloody hell do I muster up the courage to discuss all this, since it's so glaringly obvious that it's what's needed?
03-08-2012, 10:33 PM
Oh and also, I have less of a clue as to what I would want out of a polyamorous situation than ever before!
I love the sanctity of the relationship I have with the Cuddler. We have big plans for what we'd like to achieve out of our life together "primary" stylee.
I'm scared though, because I am not sure that opening up my heart would prevent me from having those kind of feelings with another - but I honestly don't think that the Cuddler would cope with not being "primary" as far as my affections were concerned if not living arrangements.
Seriously, if I'd realised what a bloody headache finding out who I am is - realising/admitting I'm bisexual AND polyamorous - I don't think i'd have bothered. I have a lot else going on in my life that I didn't choose & if I'd known I might have chosen the 'ignorance for an easy life' route. Alas, it seems that is not what is destined for me!
03-08-2012, 11:46 PM
Hah, writing stuff down certainly helps me get my head straight - should have done this months ago.
Came to the realisation that essentially all my worries stem from 4 things:
1) The Cuddler is 100% the love of my life, he is the man I will have a family with and he takes precendence. I need to pluck up the courage to tell him the extent of my feelings for the Rock - not having done so is making me anxious.
2) I am polyamorous and it is vital to me that I do not cause any hurt to anyone (especially the Cuddler) if I persue this. I need to speak to him more about this and how that can sit in our relationship in a way that is okay to us both. I also need to really find out how he identifies rather than rely on my observations & assumptions.
3) I need to deal with and discuss with him the fact that I'll be investing more with him than anyone else I love. As i've said, I don't ever want to hurt anyone and that includes anyone who I might become involved with.
4) I feel guilty. I am already investing a huge amount of time/effort in family relationships as well as my studies. I also spend some time socialising with his lovely housemates & my friends (my first real proper ones in ages). This takes away from the Cuddler - it pains him when we're apart as it does me & I wouldn't want to add to that any more. I know that I definitely would not want to persue anyone if it did. I have already committed to caring for a family member in future and as I've said I want (need) kids, I also want to work/volunteer/have time for crafting - those things will be pressures on my energies too. The Cuddler knows this and accepts/supports it so the least I can do is negotiate this in a way he's completely comfortable with, and that is fair to the kids - I want to be very hands on! I feel like I'm already asking more than enough!!!
I am in fact doing no 3) and 4) now; the Geek and the Rock both have a strong place in my heart but I am investing nothing in terms of time/energy in those relationships at the moment, and as much as I possibly can with the Cuddler.
03-09-2012, 02:31 PM
I need to speak to him more about this and how that can sit in our relationship in a way that is okay to us both. I also need to really find out how he identifies rather than rely on my observations & assumptions.Yes, Sunny, you need to talk to him, but also be aware that he may not identify as either poly or mono; many people view that aspect of relationship as just a structure, not an identity. That being said, he does sound like someone very much into monogamy. It is possible to have a poly/mono arrangement.
I need to deal with and discuss with him the fact that I'll be investing more with him than anyone else I love. As i've said, I don't ever want to hurt anyone and that includes anyone who I might become involved with.Yes, it would behoove you to discuss this as soon as possible, while the relationship is still somewhat new and getting established. It will make it very hard if you two become joined at the hip in monogamy before you pipe up.
I feel guilty. I am already investing a huge amount of time/effort in family relationships as well as my studies. I also spend some time socialising with his lovely housemates & my friends (my first real proper ones in ages). This takes away from the Cuddler - it pains him when we're apart as it does me & I wouldn't want to add to that any more. I know that I definitely would not want to persue anyone if it did. I have already committed to caring for a family member in future and as I've said I want (need) kids, I also want to work/volunteer/have time for crafting - those things will be pressures on my energies too. The Cuddler knows this and accepts/supports it so the least I can do is negotiate this in a way he's completely comfortable with, and that is fair to the kids - I want to be very hands on! I feel like I'm already asking more than enough!!!This is a red flag to me. Socializing with friends and making time for family and our passions shouldn't be something that our loved ones hurt themselves with. And I put it that way because you do not hurt him by having other people in your life; any hurt he feels is his own doing. If I were you, I would be very cautious about moving into more serious, deeper commitments and a living situation with him, if he has a hard time with you making choices that support you as an individual and being more than an appendage of him. This could be an early warning sign of someone who is co-dependent or possessive in relationships and doesn't bode well for being okay with polyamory.
People get so afraid to talk about things that are important to them, but so many issues and problems in relationships can simply be handled and resolved with communication. You need to get straight with him tout de suite.
03-09-2012, 11:50 PM
Thank you nycindie, your response has been helpful!
I think I will show him this thread. As you say, we need to talk - seeing him tomorrow so will make time for this.
A wash of calm has come over me - honesty feels good, simple really :)