Prepping for poly - how?

[nycindie]

In another thread, I wrote:
"I gotta wonder why people sign up for polyamory when they cannot handle their partners having feelings for others."

Perhaps my remark was a bit callous -- but maybe not. I know that oftentimes we can't really know the emotional impact of our decisions in advance, and I'm a solo person pursuing poly on my own, so maybe I just cannot relate to the idea of opening up a marriage or relationship, which seems to be the prevailing situation of most posters who come here torn up over consequences from choosing to live polyamorously.

However, since I posted that comment, it got me thinking about how one can prepare to immerse themselves in a practice and relationship structure that goes against the grain of how we've been taught in society to live. How can we prepare ourselves to be loving and happy when the ones we love also love others? Is it even possible to prepare for it? Or is it something we just have to keep working toward? Will we eventually reach a state where we become unruffled by it and are totally compersive? I know it does come easily for many poly peeps, but again, I wonder why so many people agree to poly when they really don't want to see their partner in love with someone else.

Sadly, I'm sure that many poly situations that had much potential for happiness and success end because the parties couldn't handle their emotional reactions to multi-partner loving. So, I hope this makes sense as an inquiry, but I'm wondering...

How many of the most successful poly tangles have become that way from a foundation of reading, discussing, extensive soul-searching, and a dedication to self-knowledge beforehand, and how many of them had to overcome devastation and save themselves from drowning because they jumped into the deep end of the pool without much forethought or preparation beforehand?

[AutumnalTone]

I'd say some imaginative rehearsing would go a long way to figuring out how things would feel. Spend time imagining what would happen and see how that feels.

Using me as a reference point, as a hetero male, I would have to imagine the ladies with whom I am and/or want to be involved interacting with another male SO. Picture them greeting each other with hugs and smooches, showing affection as they sit and talk. Perhaps even imagine the ladies getting nekkid and flashing "fuck me" eyes at other men. The ladies going to parties or dinner or movies or plays or whatever *without me* and *with somebody else*.

Then sort through all of the feelings those imaginings generate. Figure out what bothers me and why.

Of course, to continue it, then I could imagine her when she then spends time with me feeling so much more fulfilled by having other loves. How her expanding joy will make things so much better when I'm with her. And then how much better I'll feel not having to try to fulfill all of her relationship needs. Stuff like that.

There's much to recommend that sort of mental rehearsal as a form of preparation.

[nycindie]

There's much to recommend that sort of mental rehearsal as a form of preparation.Yes! Many times, I've given myself the exercise of imagining myself five years from now and looking back on a situation which currently has me upset or confused. In five years, how would I describe the outcome to someone? I imagine the conversation and even talk out loud. This helps me see things more clearly. One could imagine themselves telling a friend about their poly relationship five years from now. I think these kinds of imaginative exercises can get us in touch with our gut feelings, and what we really want in our heart of hearts, without being hampered by rationalizing or our intellectual thought processes.

Then sort through all of the feelings those imaginings generate. Figure out what bothers me and why.
^^ This is surely the most important part. If one can't resolve certain issues, it's probably best to hold off on jumping into poly then.

[GroundedSpirit]

................ So, I hope this makes sense as an inquiry, but I'm wondering...

How many of the most successful poly tangles have become that way from a foundation of reading, discussing, extensive soul-searching, and a dedication to self-knowledge beforehand, and how many of them had to overcome devastation and save themselves from drowning because they jumped into the deep end of the pool without much forethought or preparation beforehand?

Hey NYC :)

In my way of thinking, most of the difficulty is caused by the fact that, in general, people don't take the time to think about what "love" really is and how it progresses. It's simply too much effort and nobody stipulates it's required. We can just swallow the pill form.........

The media, past and present, is overloaded with a distorted, unrealistic 'definition' of love that people swallow whole and expect to live within. There isn't that 'soul-searching you speak of except for a small minority of people.

This single fact seems to be at the root of all difficulty with living 'poly'.
It's extremely difficult to overcome such a heavily stacked deck. This is one of the reasons I've always been an advocate of required 'education' in the realm of love (and sex) before any marriage is permitted. And I'm NOT talking the low key, sugarcoated version give to kids in school. I'm talking the REAL DEAL, the hard stuff, the stuff that requires that deep understanding and soul searching.
We don't allow drivers on the road without driver education............

GS

[Minxxa]

I agree that training would be good!

I think for the most part people don't think in realities in general. They see the fantasy or the ideal. For love, relationships, living situations. It's all about hat they WANT, not What is. So the idea of other sexual partners is the fantasy and because they are in love with their partner it doesn't occur that they can and may also love another. I think for many people they go for adding spice to their relationship. Not necessarily *poly*.

I also think a lot of people don't do a lot of detailed picturing of possibilities and so get surprised when emotions pop up especially I'd they feel they are mentally good with the idea.

[marksbabygirl]

NOTHING prepared me for what happened.

I had been involved in non-monogamy for some time. We had been swingers. We had had an open relationship.

Prior to the "L" word, prior to anything else - the first "date" they were having - we were all sitting in my living room - them on one couch snuggling, me on another alone, and a conversation happened that left me feeling worthless and unloveable.

Then they left me alone.

It was not a good start - and the end was worse.

It leaves me hesitant to start up anything with anyone - although I'm still sorta "looking" and he has decided that he is adamantly NOT going to pursue anything else - the pain and stress was too much for him.

I did a lot of research ahead of time. I had already experienced non-monogamy. I had no real problem with it.

If anything, what I did "wrong" was to not insist on more conversations and that things NEEDED to slow down.

Although the few times I did express that they were going too fast I was told that I was being "irrational and unreasonable and controlling"

So meh.

I was sorta prepared, but not.

[BornEmpathinVirgo]

Nycindie, I have had so many of these same questions processing in my head. I love the way you put your mind processes on this forum.Thanks for this discussion:D

[BornEmpathinVirgo]

AutumnalTone, your advice is definitely something that I am going to put into action! Sounds like a very good place to begin to answer some of these questions! :D

[BlackUnicorn]

I'd say some imaginative rehearsing would go a long way to figuring out how things would feel. Spend time imagining what would happen and see how that feels.

When I dig at the bottom of all the feelings of insecurity and a priori jealousy these mental rehearsals create, I always find the same underlying fear; I fear that someone I love might not hold me in as high regard and may not respond to my feelings with equal intensity.

So deep down, I'm just selfish. I see love relationships as investments and wonder whether I am getting my due returns. Instead of this selfish and calculating attitude, I try to cultivate the sincere wish for all beings to achieve the fullness of joy, and a commitment to help them achieve that in which ever way I can. I try to drill it into my thick skull that truly loving someone means you seek their happiness before your own.

Imagining the worst case scenario and then taking it apart and looking at what is really so terrifying about it, what am I really so afraid of, is how I prep for my relationships.

[Carma]

We came into poly as a result of an affair. I was already in love with another man, yet still in love with my husband and we did NOT want a divorce.

But NOW.... my husband has just begun a relationship with someone, and even though we have talked about it and I myself have been sleeping with another man for the past 10 months... it was surprisingly difficult for me!!! ("Paybacks are a bitch???") -- Although my husband didn't do this as a "payback," of course. I encouraged him to pursue this woman. I wanted him to be happy, I wanted him to feel more love, I wanted him to heal from some of the ego-crushing he has dealt with over my polyamory... Then when he actually had a date with her Friday night, I went into a bit of a swirl. I panicked, that I jeopardized our marriage, that I forced him into something he really doesn't want, and yes, a little fear that he will like her more, leave me for her...

I'm doing better now. Friday night was extreme, though. Sundance says the fear comes in waves -- you learn to ride them out.

I have to remind myself that I have been programmed by society to fear my husband's capacity to love. Also, at this point he is not feeling "love" -- he calls it a fling. I feel silly that I reacted as I did -- I believe in polyamory, I do! And it is working out wonderfully for ME; it's being on the other side that is a new challenge! "What's good for the goose is good for the gander." -- It's all good. :)

[Magdlyn]

I think preparing for poly is kind of like preparing for pregnancy, birth and a new baby. You can read books and websites, talk to lots of new parents, take childbirth and breastfeeding classes, but you can't know the joys and challenges of getting pregnant (esp if there are fertility issues), being pregnant, changes in one's body image, nausea, extreme fatigue, choosing a dr or midwife, birthing, breastfeeding, pediatrician visits, lack of sleep, til you're really doing it. Not to mention the stress it puts on the partners' relationship, because you now have so little time to talk, date, have sex, connect, be spontaneous.

That was my experience when my ex and I opened our marriage. I'd read the Ethical Slut, my ex and I seemed to be in a good strong place in our marriage, I am bi, he is straight, we found a nice woman... but I had no idea what NRE would do to him, and us. I didn't know how I'd feel about their romantic dates, how I'd feel about the time he'd be taken away from our kids, hadn't thought about how I'd feel about him spending OUR money on taking her out and buying her gifts, the constant passionate emails, how she and I would manage trying to become friendly metamours (since I'd imagined she'd be my lover too). I'd imagined feeling jealous of her, but hadn't thought about her jealousy of me, etc etc.

So, please don't judge us so harshly, Cindie.

[TruckerPete]

How many of the most successful poly tangles have become that way from a foundation of reading, discussing, extensive soul-searching, and a dedication to self-knowledge beforehand, and how many of them had to overcome devastation and save themselves from drowning because they jumped into the deep end of the pool without much forethought or preparation beforehand?

I think truth, even for those of us who are "successful" (however one chooses to define success) lies somewhere in the middle.

Mags really hit the nail on the head. You can read and imagine and prepare, but it's still freaking overwhelming at times. And it's what you do at that point that I think shows whether or not you'll make it. Do you slow down, figure out what's going on, see who needs to work on things and then do just that? Or do you give in to NRE, put your head in the sand and keep going?

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, I take responsibility for freaking out over my ex's NRE. I didn't handle it well at all, didn't expect nearly the intensity of it.

[GroundedSpirit]

I think preparing for poly is kind of like preparing for pregnancy, birth and a new baby. You can read books and websites, talk to lots of new parents, take childbirth and breastfeeding classes, but you can't know the joys and challenges of getting pregnant (esp if there are fertility issues), being pregnant, changes in one's body image, nausea, extreme fatigue, choosing a dr or midwife, birthing, breastfeeding, pediatrician visits, lack of sleep, til you're really doing it.

This is So true Mags but consider the alternative.
The advance education and planning does take SOME of the edge off and minimize a lot of the early mistakes. It gives you a point of reference to cling to when you think you are drowning. It's a "wait a minute - I've read/heard of this and ways it can be managed" thing.

That's a lot different than "OMG - the world is coming to an end - what do I do !"

:)

GS

[Magdlyn]

Oh, of course. Since I am a La Leche League Leader, I'll just toot my own horn and mention that women that attend 4 of our monthly meetings while pregnant go on to nurse for months longer than women who don't!

I was not saying don't prepare at all. Thank gods (and girl power and medical research, and improvement in openness about S.E.X), that we aren't in the dark ages now about birthing that women were when my mom had me!

And I guess we can say the same thing about our little support group for polyamory here and the books that are available now.

Still, we all make mistakes in parenting and poly, have issues, no matter how much we read. Only practice makes perfect (or at least not tragic). My practice/mistakes with my ex, and my gf's experiences with several poly relationships, has made a much smoother road for her and me in managing multiple relationships. And for a further link between poly and parenting, my counseling experience with the mothers in LLL has helped my communication skills across the board.

[Minxxa]

I agree that reading up and knowing things is definitely helpful, but it's only the first step in any new adventure. You have to also build up the appropriate skills you might need, and then be open and in the moment of the experiences and adapt and adjust and build new skills as needed.

I do think there is a "skill set" for successful relationships in general. Things like open, honest and non-aggressive communication, listening skills, empathy, non-judgment, acceptance, etc. These are such vital skills, yet skills that I don't think are adequately taught or supported much (at least not in the U.S.).

And I think doing your own work first is highly important as well. Knowing yourself, what you want, what you believe, and being able to identify, name, and pick apart your emotions when things go awry and figure out what the core issues are... so helpful!

I find it interesting when you see people struggling to live a poly life when they don't even really have the skills to be in a healthy relationship with ONE person. Like they expect things will magically "work out"... the poly fairy will fly in and poof! everybody will get along, nobody will ever feel hurt, unicorns will abound.

[Phy]

I think you are absolutely right.

And I like the poly fairy :D

[NeonKaos]

There is also a tendency for poly-folks to put up with more bullshit because they think it makes them more tolerant or open minded or whatsa.

I am not interested in proving to the world how open minded or not-uptight i am.

[AutumnalTone]

There is also a tendency for poly-folks to put up with more bullshit because they think it makes them more tolerant or open minded or whatsa.


I figure that sort of thing arises more from codependency issues than trying to prove tolerance or somesuch.

As in, "I'm afraid this relationship will end, despite the fact that I knew that was a distinct possibility from the outset." One has to be prepared for any relationship to end prior to entering it, I think, to be prepared for it in the first place.

[River]

I simply cannot imagine attempting to practice polyamory in this culture at this time without the contextualization of a conducive spiritual outlook and practice. For me, relationships are as central to my spiritual (mostly buddhist) practice as sitting meditation, mindfulness and metta (lovingkindness) practices. How can people find resliliency and freedom and joy in life without these practices and their supportive discourses? I have no idea.

I've found that love and joy, which are manifestations of freedom and love-of-truth,
emerge in the atmosphere of non-clinging appreciation. If one wishes to have love and joy, one must let go of all that obstructs it. Jealousy is little more than fearful clinging and grasping. It isn't appreciation and love. So it has to be transcended (trance ended?).

If my long time partner, or any other partner, were to love someone else and that loving itself caused me suffering, I'd know that I've lost my way and I was temporarily caught in some illusion or another. Typically, the illusion that causes such suffering is the illusion that one is worth less / worthless. One feels abandoned or the fear of abandonment when one feels worth less. But such a feeling-thought is always an illusion. Every human being has infinite value, is infinite value. All else is illusion.

Self-esteem is crucial to all relationships, whether mono or poly or whatever. It's crucial
to any well-being in life, even for single and solo people. Almost all relationship troubles
seem to me to have a failing of self-esteem as the principal cause. If I had poor self-esteem, and Kevin (or 'M') were to fall in love with someone else, I'd probably worry that he'd (she'd) leave me, that I was not as good as this other person, and so on. But because I now do have good--healthy--self-esteem, I'd celebrate with him his ( & her) newfound love. I don't depend on another person to reflect my value/love in order that I may experience my value/love, though I do intensely appreciate these reflections. And I even need them. But I don't need them in a basic lack way, as I once did. My cup runneth over, if you will. I've come home to myself. And that's what we need in order to have healthy loving relationships with others -- whether mono or poly. But especially in poly, because poly is a daring experiment in our cultural setting. It could be the cultural norm, as monogamy now is, and monogamy would then be a daring experiment, and a deep challenge due to lack of cultural / social supportiveness, understanding....

But how is self esteem advanced? Ironically, perhaps, I think it is most swiftly advanced by letting go of one's self -- which is what one does in meditation and mindfulness and metta (loving-kindness) practices. And it is what one does when one seeks to transform the lead of jealousy into the gold of compersion. Self is not supposed to obsessively focus on self; this makes a self sick! A self which surrenders, which is generous and compassionate and kind, this is a whole self, a becoming whole self, a healing self. When the self realizes its wholeness it comes home to life, to itself. In letting itself go the self wakes up. In waking up it sees its own infinite beauty, goodness, loveliness.... Self-esteem emerges in letting self go.

We can make a regular practice of letting ourselves go, and thereby opening ourselves up and waking ourselves up. Buddhist sitting meditation does this for me better than anything, better than skydiving or bungee jumping, better even than
sex or double fudge chocolate ice cream. Sitting still and comfortable on a cushion is both the hardest and the easiest thing I know how to do, and by far and away the most daring. It takes great courage and fortitude. It is a huge risk -- everything is risked! (I've fallen suddenly into empty black space doing it!) I think it was the sitting that finally opened up enough space for my heart to finally begin to awaken to itself, and allow me to enter much further into the mysteries of human loving.

I dare you! Better..., dare yourself.

[redpepper]

How can we prepare ourselves to be loving and happy when the ones we love also love others? Is it even possible to prepare for it? Or is it something we just have to keep working toward? Will we eventually reach a state where we become unruffled by it and are totally compersive? I know it does come easily for many poly peeps, but again, I wonder why so many people agree to poly when they really don't want to see their partner in love with someone else.

how many of them had to overcome devastation and save themselves from drowning because they jumped into the deep end of the pool without much forethought or preparation beforehand?Wow, really great questions NYCindie! I would think preparation is the best bet. :)

[BlackUnicorn]

I also find that reading this forum and what others have gone through helps as a preparation of "what you might expect". It's consoling to know, in the wake of my recent poly disappointment, that most FMF triads sizzle out after the NRE threesome sex period and become FMF vees instead - I don't feel like such a screw-up for not being able to make my triad last (as if you could ever force a relationship to last anyway).

[nicothoe]

I don't think it is entirely possible to prepare yourself for the wave of jealousy and emotions that are going to hit you the moment you enter poly waters. The least you can do is expect them.

I try to be a realist. I tend not to view jealousy as a mythical beast that can be killed, or never existed to begin with. That way, when it does raise its ugly head, you are not completely taken by surprise. I tell myself it's okay to be jealous, and what really matters is how your handle your emotions, and whether you have precautions in place to stop yourself from becoming an ass. I say this because how often do we find ourselves betrayed by our own emotions? You tell yourself your okay with something and then BANG! you feel you have been shot in the stomach. Maybe you can write a letter to yourself, to be opened when your world has been turned upside down,

"Dear John, this is your rational self speaking. You're probably thinking right now that your relationship is in ruin, well, it's not, so get a grip of yourself man...."

[River]

I don't think it is entirely possible to prepare yourself for the wave of jealousy and emotions that are going to hit you the moment you enter poly waters. The least you can do is expect them. [/I]

This post definitely applies to a very, very large portion of the population. But not to everyone. When my long time partner fell in love with another guy and pursued a relationship with him, I felt only good happy feelings about that. I never had any jealousy at all. And I can't imagine I ever would, unless he were to seriously neglect our relationship -- which he would not, because he really does love me. So I just can't see myself having a serious problem with jealousy, ever.

That said, if ever I do face jealousy in myself, I'll be happy to confront it and deal with it. It will shock me to no end, if it does! I just can't see that in my future.

[nicothoe]

There are going to be exceptions to every rule, and I am glad you are one of them. My point was that sometimes we overestimate our own ability to handle a situation, that is, until it actually happens. So when giving advice, it is always better to err on the side of caution than to presume otherwise.

I like to remind people that they are human, and that whatever it is they are going through or struggling with, they are no better or worse than the rest of us. That experiencing jealousy does not make you a failure at polyamory. That nobody should be ashamed of their emotions.

We make mistakes. We learn. We move on.

[Magdlyn]

Yeah, I definitely felt tons of jealousy with my ex's gf, but only because she was supposed to be a unicorn, but didn't deliver.

With my gf now, 12 years later, i only feel jealousy when she breaks a boundary (accidentally, and that's only happened once), or when my needs have been neglected just because of life circumstances. We always talk about it immediately, she verbally reassures me, then fucks me, and all is well. I'm easy like that! :p

[KGodc]

I think your advice here is very helpful. I wonder, do you have any deeper advice for exploring the parts that are uncomfortable.

Its hard to imagine my husband with another woman because I don't trust most women to be kind and loving....he has been hurt before, and I don't want that for him or us. I have a very fluid sexuality and am open about what I want, but some women just want to play games, which is what I fear. How can I know that the women my husband might meet are (bite my tongue) "safe"? Pain and loss happen in any relationships, but poly isn't for everyone which complicates things even more.

My guess is that ground rules and pacing a relationship would be a great way to overcome the fear of an insane bitch (can I say that here?) playing games. What do you think?...any other good ideas?

[River]

Its hard to imagine my husband with another woman because I don't trust most women to be kind and loving....he has been hurt before, and I don't want that for him or us. [....] How can I know that the women my husband might meet are (bite my tongue) "safe"? Pain and loss happen in any relationships, but poly isn't for everyone which complicates things even more.

I must say it is a delight to read about your open, loving care for your husband, his well-being. I'll say this: if you keep the channels of communication open between you two, and trust him, for the most part (by far) to make his own choices, things should probably go splendidly. The fact that you are looking after his well-being and happiness, even if he were to love another, speaks volumes. You're going to be okay. But keep speaking your heart. Things should be very good.:)

[BlackUnicorn]

My guess is that ground rules and pacing a relationship would be a great way to overcome the fear of an insane bitch (can I say that here?) playing games. What do you think?...any other good ideas?

Depends a great deal on what you mean by ground rules and pacing. The most common difficulty I hear poly/open couples around me having is the constant going to and fro between what one partner is and is not comfortable with. This can frustrate potential OSOs out pretty quickly, and create resentment between the original couple.

Yes, people cannot always (often) predict beforehand what something will feel like. But we should not allow our emotions to ride all over us and the future we are trying to create. If you are having a rough day, commit to the future you have seen before you and wanted to pursue, not to the present and fleeting state of mind that is telling you to rein in your partner and put artificial boundaries on the natural progression of their other relationships.

It is exactly as likely that they will meet someone new and run away with them even if you were strictly monogamous. In fact, some might argue it's less likely they will balk in poly because the whole 'you have to choose one or the other' pressure is gone.

As to your specific concern; are you sure some of your fear of him getting hurt is not just jealousy in disguise? In the good old "no one is good enough for my son/daughter (but me) because no one will understand what a rare gem they are (except I)" manner, but only with a poly twist.

If you feel you need ground rules, try making ones that are specific and have a timeline. "Don't do anything that could jeopardize our primary connection" is a bad rule, because practically anything can fall under that. "When we are both ready, you can have as much freedom as you want" is another bad one, because there is no timeline - there might never become a time when both are ready. "I'm afraid that if you start a new relationship, you will get swept up in NRE and start neglecting our relationship and me. So I would appreciate it if in the beginning you would just go on dates and not stay over for days at a time before I have a chance to meet them and we can all discuss what we want and expect out of this" is a good rule/boundary; it's very specific and limited in its duration.

IMO only you either give the other person their freedom or you don't. That includes the freedom to meet, fall in love and form relationships with people who wouldn't be your first choice of metamours. Problems arise when you think of abstract situations which you wouldn't be okay with as opposed to equally abstract situations you think you can handle, without having no actual experience with either. Then when reality doesn't match your fantasies, you have a situation where one partner is continously changing their mind about what is okay and what isn't, one day sulking and demanding that old boundaries that have been lifted by mutual consent be re-introduced, the other over-enthusiastic and asking they get rid of all boundaries alltogether, including the ones they only yesterday thought they couldn't do without.

(I might not always think Vanilla's mother treats her in the best possible way. However, their relationship has such depth and history, most of which I'll never be privy to, that anything I see is only going to be a scratch on the surface. I'm also aware that I might be subtly competing with her mother over who gets to be the number one woman in her life, which is insane, because we have very different roles to play for her. Additionally, people have a tendency to bitch and moan about their near and dears much more readily than to praise them for all the good they've done. All of these contribute to how I perceive Vanilla's mother and their relationship, which is not how she experiences it most of the time.)