Desperate at Dawn

[jackbungee]

Hi I'm from Auckland New Zealand and I just found your website.

I'm happily married for 19 years. A and I have 3 lovely daughters. I love my family and my marriage and I don't want to change any of that. I love A and she loves me.

But something has been wrong for many years and I never knew what. Then last year I read the book Sex at Dawn and everything went KABOOM. I suppose everyone here has read it. It's about the scientific evidence that we all need multiple sexual partners to be true to our biological nature to stay healthy. Now I know at last what was wrong in my life and is still wrong and why I suffer so much. Sexual monogamy is like not getting enough fresh air or vitamins or sleep not satisfying one of the basic requirements for health.

I've been depressed on and off for many years and that's been so bad for the ones I love most. I've done socially embarrassing sexual things over years and years all I am grateful for is I've never deliberately hurt anyone. Now I know there's actually nothing wrong with me I'm a normal human male with a good sex drive and nowhere to take it. Like they say in the book monogamy is like committing myself to eating my favorite meal bangers and mash for the rest of my life. I have never been able to admit to myself until last year that I like almost everyone on the planet need more than one sex partner. I've never been unfaithful to her but at what a price.

Our sex life is more than good it's great. I have no problem with sex with A it gets better every year. She says so too. Sometimes we laugh with pleasure after coming sometimes she cries and laughs at the same time. Our sex together is really satisfying it's deep. But what do I do with the hunger/loneliness that remains in the middle of the night after even the best sex? I masturbate until I'm empty but it's only temporary relief more bangers and mash.

This endless hunger has seriously messed up my life in many ways. I've finally understood how I obsess about sex like a starving man obsesses about food. It eats up my energy distracts me from doing creative and fun and sociable things. I'm in a dead end job because I can't get it together to move on. Haven't been able to for years focusing all my attention on how to download more porn how to meet up with women all things to do with sex without actually having sex.

I realized many years ago all this was making me feel alienated from others especially from A. I felt like I was disgusting something wrong with me. Normal guys are up front about sex and joking about it not to mention actually having sex. I can't open up to others in a natural way because I feel I'm always hiding such a huge part of me. I can't seem to make close friends definitely not with women because I have a secret to hide. That's alienation feeling I'm different from others.

But I'm married and supposed to be content you know true love not for ever looking for more. And all it's been all this time is I'm starved of normal multi-partner sex. It was such a relief to read that in Sex at Dawn. I'm normal! The rest of "civilized" society must also be starving but maybe they cope with it in other ways? Do other people feel as alienated as me? As depressed as desperate? And A how I long to be honest with her.

After reading Sex at Dawn I got A to read it too and I was really hopeful we would talk. As they say in the book renegotiate our relationship. I craved cutting though the alienation at last to be soul mates with her to open up to her and be who I am and be loved for being me. I can't tell you how much I hoped. But though she enjoyed the book and even agreed with it she said we live in a monogamous society and sex with anyone outside our marriage would mean the end of it. End of story. I was gutted.

I should explain she is very jealous of anything I have to do with the opposite sex. I long ago stopped mentioning anything about women I interact with at work or church or sport it's not worth the hassle. She goes all quiet and then days or weeks later if we have any disagreement or argument she would bring it up in such a bitter way I think she's been stewing all that time.

After she finished Sex at Dawn I had the courage to say I need more sex partners. She went ballistic it was very ugly in front of the girls. I thought it was over between us. I can't remember ever feeling so crap it was a total disaster. I backed right off and things have settled down but I don't know if down under there is some permanent damage to our relationship like maybe she feels she can't trust me anymore. That hurts the most the thought she might not trust me. To be fair I have it coming to me after all these years of not communicating.

This jealousy thing she really loses it. When she gets into a rage there is nothing I can do. I feel totally gutted but I try to stay calm and rational. One can't have two adults out of control at the same time. A's sulk can go on for days I feel sorry for the girls. But then she eventually settles down it's like she surfaces. She says she's sorry for making such a fuss and I'm a good man and she should appreciate me more. And I look at her and think to myself you've had a good rant mate now what do I do with all the stress inside me? Sometimes I just want to drink till I'm numb.

Now here I read on the net about people loving each other freely it looks like heaven. Friends with benefits. Why not? Just nice and cozy and friendly zero guilt. I have to be really honest and say I'm not sure I need or want deeply emotional relationships. At the moment the sex is so urgent it's all I can think about. I'm more hungry than lonely. That could change though once I meet my basic biological need. But it's not going to happen is it?

The weird thing is since reading Sex at Dawn I've felt more love for A than ever and for my kids too. So many times I come home from work now and I see them and I think I love my family. It feels so good here. I think it's because I now know I choose A to share my life with. She is it. She is my special other we have shared so much I never want to lose her. She had my babies. How can I tell her I'm famished I'm dying for sex with others. It's nothing to do with her she's great and even if she's not always the greatest I love her as she is. I know her so well she is inside me. Nothing can change that.

OK so why don't I have an affair?

A few years ago our neighbors were getting divorced. We were good friends their daughter played with ours we went to church camp together. A and I were really sad we said why can't they work things out? Then one evening I was in their driveway rounding up my girls for tea and she (the neighbor) arrived from work and I could see how stressed she was. I said something and she got tears in her eyes so I put my arm round her shoulder. But then she kissed me I was completely surprised. I said no we can't do this and left. Up to that point I had never found her particularly attractive she was just a friendly neighbor.

I could not tell A what had happened I knew she would say how long has this been going on and do you want a divorce? Her jealousy would explode. I tried to forget what happened but then I was completely impotent for a week. For the first time in my life I could not get it up. I lied to A that it was work stress. The lesson I learned was there is absolutely no way I can think of cheating on A without it affecting our sex life. It has to be completely open and honest. Either she has to encourage me to find sex outside our marriage with genuine love and respect for my needs or it won't work.

I've thought long and hard about the other way round what I would think of A with another man (or woman!). I honestly can't say it upsets me at all. I don't seem to have the same jealousy in me it's much more important to me that she is happy. I don't want this to sound cheesy it's just the way it is. I can't bring myself to feel anything but warm fuzzies thinking of A having pleasure with someone else even if he's a hairy ape and twice my size where it counts. I know she loves me again I'm not trying to be sentimental she just does and I trust that feeling.

Another thing is creeping in since reading Sex at Dawn which I should mention and that is now it sometimes feels to me A is the one standing between me and the joy I could have. Imagine if I wasn't preoccupied all the time? Sometimes we have a conversation and I'm only listening with half my brain the other half is thinking sex sex sex. That's what hunger does. I feel resentment for the first time in our life together. I don't want to live the rest of my life in desperation. I try not to show my anger but I guess it must come through sometimes. It's a mess.

If only she could understand how opening our relationship would be good for everyone. I can feel under the surface the energy and enthusiasm and love it would unleash in my life. It wouldn't take much it's not as if I'd be spending all my time away from home. Just the thought of being an autonomous sexual being just the hope of that would already be enough to make be bounce with joy all day long. Just the hope.

Isn't that what she wants too? If not outside sex for herself that's her own choice then for the better man and husband and father I would be. She probably has no idea how deeply I would respect her if she said to me go and find the sex you need I love you and admire you and trust you. I'd worship her. Oh my god I'd be able to hold my head up high and look people in the eye for the first time in my life. It seems so simple so easy. But I'd have to see respect in her eyes she couldn't fake it or everything would turn to custard.

I'm trapped. Thanks for listening. It all just came out sorry.

Do I have to destroy my life to get what I can't help needing?

[River]

Jack,

You're going to have to tell her all of that, especially the part about how much more happy and fulfilled you'll be when you're not being dogged by this unmet need. And the part about how your relationship with her should be expected to blossom in all kinds of new ways because you'll be so much happier and freer. Tell her all of this. Even though it will be difficult, tell her.

Make sure you tell her again and again that she's not in any way insufficient or inadequate. Make sure she really understands how precious she is to you. But tell her.

My partner of fifteen years and I are really solid and happy with one another, even as I am exploring loving intimacy outside of our dyad. He's cool with it. We're good. I even sort of have a girl friend! Well, "sort of" because we haven't been face-to-face yet, as she lives very far away. But we're really close, good friends who also share a romantic attraction. ... And about two weeks from now I'm taking a multi-day trip with an old boyfriend I haven't seen in 16-17 years! A man I'm still in love with after all of these years. (Though perhaps we'll just be good friends?)

[MonoVCPHG]

Hi and welcome to the forum :)


You are having what is called New Relationship Energy with a book that does not apply or apeal to everyone....I know it's hard to believe LOL! Remember, this is a pop culture book and was never submitted to any scientific journal for peer review (kind of like a Micheal Moore documentary).

The rest of "civilized" society must also be starving but maybe they cope with it in other ways? Do other people feel as alienated as me? As depressed as desperate? And A how I long to be honest with her.

No, not all of civiclization is not feeling what you are, much of it is quite happy in sexual exclusivity. But you are certainly not alone.



If only she could understand how opening our relationship would be good for everyone. ?

You have to own this statement....it would be good for you. You can't assume it would be good for her and in most cases, a relationship that starts mono and becomes a mon/poly one is not good for the mono partner. Usually it involves pain and emotional instability that leaks into most areas of that person's life. Of course, denying your desire for more partners has the same affect so you are in a hard place my friend.

So, instead of trying to convince her of a theory that works for you perhaps start thinking of the greater good. Start talking to her bluntly about what you need, listen to what she needs and think of the overall health of your family. Maybe it is time to push her and see how she really reacts, maybe it's time to go separate ways.

Just keep you thoughts clear about the reality of your situation. Sometimes the grass looks much greener on the other side and sometimes it is. Other times you end up looking back thinking what the fuck did I just give up.

Good luck

[River]

But you are certainly not alone.

Now there's an understatement! I'm pretty sure it is a small minority of people who are deeply satisfied with sexual/emotional exclusivity over the long haul.

[MonoVCPHG]

Now there's an understatement! I'm pretty sure it is a small minority of people who are deeply satisfied with sexual/emotional exclusivity over the long haul.

You're probably right River. We humans live far longer than nature apparently designed us to according to the scientific research...maybe that ties into it?

[River]

...maybe that ties into it?

Well, if we think in terms of an evolutionary biology of the pair bond ... as mainly about insuring that infants and children have both a mother and a father to take care of them until biological maturity, yeah, we live well beyond that time now. But I think there's much more going on biologically than just this parenting need. I think biology should conceive humans as profoundly social animals, with sociality extending well beyond the modern concept of family (nuclear) into extended family in a tribal context. That's what we were for 99.?? percent of our biological history -- and so that's the sort of species we simply are. Sex is a major part of our sociality, and so stuff like homosexuality, bisexuality, non-monogamy ... and the like begin to make biological sense! Sex isn't JUST about procreation. Never has been for humans. It's been part of how we bond with one another and form cooperative and collaborative life-ways, which obviously constitutes a biological strategy. Our strategic niche in the biotic community is largely our innate and intrinsic sociality, our being and working together in mutual care.

In this light, it's not hard to see that monogamy has both an advantage and a disadvantage to the health of the community.
Too rigid a pair bond and the community itself loses its glue. Too little glue in the parental pair, and Mama is on her own, somewhat.

[jackbungee]

Thanks River and MonoVCPHG. It's not easy. You've given me a bit of hope again. Funny how long one can live on hope like living on love and fresh air. :)

[dingedheart]

I think you may have summed up the reason prostitution is one of the worlds oldest profession.

Do you think your unfulfilled desires caused the depression or the depression caused you to look for something to pull you out of the depression.

I started a thread a while back in the General Discussions page ...Restless Heart Syndrome ....If on the off chance you read it ....I'd like to hear any comments you might have ....

[opalescent]

I've done socially embarrassing sexual things over years and years all I am grateful for is I've never deliberately hurt anyone.

But what do I do with the hunger/loneliness that remains in the middle of the night after even the best sex? I masturbate until I'm empty but it's only temporary relief more bangers and mash.

This endless hunger has seriously messed up my life in many ways. I've finally understood how I obsess about sex like a starving man obsesses about food. It eats up my energy distracts me from doing creative and fun and sociable things. I'm in a dead end job because I can't get it together to move on. Haven't been able to for years focusing all my attention on how to download more porn how to meet up with women all things to do with sex without actually having sex.

I realized many years ago all this was making me feel alienated from others especially from A. I felt like I was disgusting something wrong with me. Normal guys are up front about sex and joking about it not to mention actually having sex. I can't open up to others in a natural way because I feel I'm always hiding such a huge part of me. I can't seem to make close friends definitely not with women because I have a secret to hide. That's alienation feeling I'm different from others.

The rest of "civilized" society must also be starving but maybe they cope with it in other ways? Do other people feel as alienated as me? As depressed as desperate? And A how I long to be honest with her.

JackBungee,

I've highlighted some of your words above because I am worried. The hunger and alienation you describe seem to go far beyond a desire for multiple sex partners. From your description, it feels compulsive. Something feels broken within you. It's been my experience that kind of desperate search is often used to cover up something even more terrifying. Have you ever spoken with a reputable therapist about this?

I'm so glad you found a community that seems like a good fit for you. That's always an amazing thing to discover! I know when I came out as a lesbian and found my 'people' it was a great thing. I learned so much. But finding that community did not fix my underlying problems of not knowing how to communicate or understanding my feelings.

And in a similar way, poly can't fix what ails you. It won't make you whole, fix your broken-ness. Poly won't fix your marriage.

You're now 'normal'. Great! Now for the work.

Who are you? What do you want? What need does multiple sex partners fill for you? What role do you see for these partners? What do you want your marrige to look like? What kind of a spouse do you want to be? What kind of a father? What kind of a partner?

Poly, if one is very lucky and works ridiculously hard, offers the opportunity to be better versions of ourselves. But so does mediation, prayer, or study.

Get to know yourself and why you have such hunger for more sex partners, why you experience such painful alienation. I feel your pain so clearly in your words. Having more sex with more people without addressing the why just means you have more sex with more people - you are still stuck with you.

Opening up your marriage may indeed help you but I fear that without some understanding of where this personal drive comes from, you will blow up your marriage, harm your relationship with your kids, and damage yourself.

Best of luck to you. I'm pulling for you.

[jackbungee]

Thanks for that thoughtful replies dingedheart and opalescent. I've been away a few days hence the late response. You are right of course there are many things inside that could do with a good hard look and a sympathetic self hug. Your posts made me think again about alienation.

I was with friends and acquaintances and some people I did not know this weekend and kind of watching myself seeing where I fit in who I like and who likes me. And my conclusion is that people generally like me and want to be friends. I'm not alienated in that sense I have a fairly good self image and confidence. I'm sociable and have a good time with my mates and new faces equally. The alienation is the regret with which I see myself sometimes do desperate things as a substitute for good old fashioned nooky. I'm disgusted with myself for that and it makes me feel lonely.

At this event there was lots of opportunity for socializing between sessions. A was there too and we had a great time chatting and laughing together and separately with lots of people. At one point someone brought chocolate brownies and I gave her hug. I could feel how I do that sort of thing spontaneously and I know its good and right because of her relaxed response. That's who I am I'm affectionate and people are OK with that and I'm OK with that. Then I looked at her and thought how nice it would be to have sex. It's not as if I'm in love with her it's just that I find women attractive. If you're lesbian opalescent you'd probably agree. :)

I guess what I was trying to say in my original post is the need for simple friendly affectionate sex with a wider network now feels like a basic unmet need like someone in solitary confinement craves company of any sort. The alienation comes from the stupid but understandable things I've done in unsuccessful attempts to ease the pain and especially from not having anyone to confide in. Of course the most important person in my life I should be talking to is A but as I've said it's not easy with her insistence on monogamy which I have to respect.

As for depression I think it's nothing more than suppressed frustration. I have lots of good things going on in my life and I don't dwell on negatives. But there's this hunger that I didn't understand until I read Sex at Dawn. It's so damn simple. I'm a human male and my engine runs on testosterone. I'll go look at the Restless Heart Syndrome thread now.

I'm not disagreeing with anything either of you've said about exploring the basic drivers. I'm just worried that I made myself sound a bit more crazy than I really am in trying to communicate my feelings. Not always easy for a bloke.

[Magdlyn]

Bravo for exploring your feelings and being able to express them so well here. Pretty damn good, for a bloke! ;)

I love the book Sex at Dawn too.

Also, you really made me giggle at the idea mono sex is old "bangers and mash." Let's mash ourselves together and bang!

So, anyway, enough with the funny stuff. Like you, when I was married and mono I always craved sex with others. Since I am bi, it was both men and women. I had an uncontrollable roving eye. Sometimes I'd do some mild flirting, nothing serious. I'd get strong crushes tho, on friends, neighbors, celebrities. It did get obsessive at times.

After 10 years together, my h and I had 3 children and my sex drive went away when the kids were little, from overwork, lactation, and sleep deprivation, but once the youngest turned 4, it came back full force and so did my crushing. My husband, like yours, was always extremely jealous, plus he always resented somehow the knowledge that I was bi, which I had never hidden.

I tried to hide my sexual desires for others. (I also desired emotional closeness, maybe that's a girl thing.) But the husband always picked up on it... his extreme jealousy (caused by low self esteem) caused him to have radar for my feelings and desires.

So... somehow at the point my kids were ages 5, 8 and 10, my husband finally began to understand and accept my bisexuality. Suddenly he had an epiphany! If I wanted a woman, he and I could have a 3way. It was a longterm deeply buried fantasy of his. How it all worked out, I won't go into right now.

Also, me being accepted as bi and poly was so freeing. Before that, he'd tried to control my sexuality in many ways, mostly by trying to set a "pure" example, denying he ever felt attracted to another woman ever, denying he masturbated (lying on both counts). Once, he even told me one of the reasons he wanted to move from downtown Boston and buy a house in the suburbs was to take me away from attractive men, isolate me. (heh, of course that backfired because I am bi and joined a womens' support group. :P ) This controlling behavior resulted in me feeling evil, while he was pure.

So, even though our try at a triad didn't work out, and eventually husband and I split (for various reasons), despite counseling... I just wanted to let you know, you are definitely NOT alone in your sexual desires for others. And unlike Mono (who is prejudiced) and opalescent, who warns of a deeper issue other than sexual desire, I feel right in your wavelength. And I want to say, being open about your deep need with your wife is the only way to go. Unspoken needs, denied and repressed, lead to less and less intimacy in a couple. And in your case, even worse, lack of quality of life in many ways.

I suggest you keep talking, and tell her you need to be honest, even if she gets mad, hurt, pissy... she will feel jealous, she will fear losing you... But your very quality of life is at stake. It's great you respect her enough to not just cheat, after all!

Just don't have your discussions in front of your kids!! Seek counseling if you need a private place to talk and a disinterested 3rd party. Read threads here... so many have gone through what you are.

Good luck, hon.

[River]

(I also desired emotional closeness, maybe that's a girl thing.)

Am I a girl? Seems my penis is a very boy thing. Hmmm. Proof that a man can have tender feelings and be both available for and very interested in emotional closeness.

[nycindie]

Am I a girl? Seems my penis is a very boy thing. Hmmm. Proof that a man can have tender feelings and be both available for and very interested in emotional closeness.

I remember, back in the early 90s, going to hear Sam Keen speak somewhere downtown with a friend of mine. At that time we were all reading his Fire in the Belly and King, Warrior, Magician, Lover by another author, in addition to Women Who Run with the Wolves. Anyway, he said, "Why is it when I hold a child and caress their face, making cooing noises and expressing love, that I am told it's my feminine side? But if I punch someone in the face, then it's my masculine side? No, both those things are part of me. My masculinity has both tenderness and aggression."

(I'm paraphrasing)

It really struck me and I have tried not to categorize men and women ever since, but sometimes I do just out of habit.

[River]

It really struck me and I have tried not to categorize men and women ever since, but sometimes I do just out of habit.

We've all heard so much about "women's lib" over the decades. (I'm a feminist guy!) But fewer are aware of the much smaller "men's lib" movement/s. Just as women have been steriotyped and prepackaged and processed by restrictive and idiotic gender roles, so have men. And just as little girls have often been thwarted in their full and round development in childhood and adolescence, so have men been. Men are often less feeling, actually or apparently, because we're systematically taught not to feel so much and to think, think, think instead -- and be aggressive, assertive, competitive.... This is enculturation, not biology. But, of course, there are biologically based differences between men and women. Its just that it is very hard to know what boys/men girls/women would be like if allowed to follow their own natural inclinations.

I should also mention that many women are very, very "masculine" while many, many men are very, very "feminine", and everything in between. And this is the case regardless of sexual orientation.

All of that said, I'm definitely more "like a woman" (as conventionally thought) in regards to how I think about and value relationships. But I'm very much a man. (Hell, I used to be a wildland firefighter!)

[nycindie]

River, I really dig you.

[Magdlyn]

Am I a girl? Seems my penis is a very boy thing. Hmmm. Proof that a man can have tender feelings and be both available for and very interested in emotional closeness.

River, it was said tongue in cheek. You know I'm genderqueer and pansexual. I was speaking of the common cultural presumption.

BTW, some girls have penises. Oh my, I just remembered. I sleep with one several nights a week! :p

[River]

BTW, some girls have penises. Oh my, I just remembered. I sleep with one several nights a week! :p

That's fine, but mine's a boy/man penis! (Grunting and lifting heavy objects):p;)

[River]

River, I really dig you.

Ditto, dearie.:)

[Magdlyn]

Jackbungee, I am sorry we have derailed your thread.

[River]

Yeah, sorry, ... I get all lost when I'm talking about my penis! ;):D:p

[opalescent]

Yeah, sorry, ... I get all lost when I'm talking about my penis! ;):D:p

Just like a dude! :D

[River]

<searches for a fig leaf>

[nycindie]

<peeks under fig leaf> :D

[River]

<blushes>

[jackbungee]

No worries about the thread diversion. You have given me great support I really appreciate it.

In Sex at Dawn one chapter starts with something like "You can hide many things behind a fig leaf but a human erection is not one of them" :)

[Magdlyn]

Hehe, I like erections a lot. Maybe our humor lifted your mood a little, and that's a good thing. But to return to our topic:

I reread your OP and I did want to address this sex idea more thoroughly. You express a desire for FWBs, some plain and simple sex with another partner or partners. That might be more correctly called fuckbuddies. If it's just sex, it's fuckbuddies or playpartners. You could call it being a swinger. If it's FWBs, there's an assumption of some affection. If that affection turns to deep caring and intimacy, to love, it's polyamory.

As you might've gathered from reading around the board by now, so many individuals/couples have come to a poly mindset after trying sex with no attachment, no strings attached type things. Sex causes bonding. Swingers go to great lengths sometimes to prevent pesky old feelings of love to crop up. Many don't kiss their playpartners for example. Kissing causes several hormones to be released which cause attachment and obsession with the sex partner. Looking deeply into one another's eyes during sex also causes bonding and something that feels like love.

Since you seem to be a very affectionate, caring guy, I fear that if you did somehow get the go ahead to have sex with/kiss/cuddle/date others, you'd soon fall in love with the people you shag. This happens all the time. Of course, this would hurt and threaten your wife even more...

Our board is for people who *love* more than one, the core definition of polyamory. Feelings, emotions, not just sex. You may now feel an overwhelming need for sex with others, but once you got that (hypothetically, as of course your wife is not on board with even meaningless sex for you with others), you'd probably start to want real relationships.

Our tribal ancestors, and present day hunter gatherers, of course, do not have meaningless sex with their tribe-mates. They are all in a close knit community, trusting each other, working together, raising their kids communally.

Just food for thought. Men are trained to repress emotions (hence my earlier "sexist" comment that got River's panties in a twist), women are allowed to be more open with their feelings. But it's obvious from your posts you are a man in touch with his feelings, very loving, friendly, and well-liked (if only platonically) by your circle of friends. Allow yourself to imagine having just had sex with a sexy hot woman, the type of girl you'd be able to get it up for: attractive, intelligent, delicious. Would it be "just sex" for you, or actually become something deeper? Look ahead, imagine the scenario with your wife if you got bonded and obsessed with a new person, in the way infatuation/new relationship energy (NRE) leads us to feel.

How would that all work out, in your mind?

[River]

Allow yourself to imagine having just had sex with a sexy hot woman, the type of girl you'd be able to get it up for: attractive, intelligent, delicious.


<gives up on the fig leaf>

<takes a cold shower>

[Magdlyn]

River, this is not your own personal erotica thread. LOL. Get a grip, man.

...

Not that kind of grip!

[River]

Gee, I was only trying to be funny. Sorry for that.

[Magdlyn]

I just feel bad for jack, River. He's in serious trouble, and I'd like to afford him the respect for his crisis.

[Magdlyn]

One more thought, about porn addiction, which I gather you have. Don't you think that people addicted to porn really have a need for deep, loving sexual contact with others, somewhere buried inside, yet are prevented from having multiple partners per our mono culture (or else they have other social issues preventing irl [in real life] sexual contact at all.).

So, your porn addiction is like junk food. You keep returning to it because you are starving for multiple sexual relationships, and it's the only food available. But it's not nourishing, it's just pictures on a screen, and so you are becoming more and more starved, leading to a vicious cycle taking over your whole life. The definition of an addiction explains how it takes you over, to the detriment of getting out and enjoying other things in life, affecting your ability to work, etc. This is a serious problem, and I am glad you came here looking for help.

From here

http://addictions.about.com/od/howaddictionhappens/a/symptomslist.htm

Symptoms of addiction:

Tolerance - the need to engage in the addictive behavior more and more to get the desired effect

Withdrawal happens when the person does not take the substance or engage in the activity, and they experience unpleasant symptoms, which are often the opposite of the effects of the addictive behavior

Difficulty cutting down or controlling the addictive behavior

Social, occupational or recreational activities becoming more focused around the addiction, and important social and occupational roles being jeopardized

The person becoming preoccupied with the addiction, spending a lot of time on planning, engaging in, and recovering from the addictive behavior

[jackbungee]

Magdlyn you're asking the hard questions. Honesty time I confess I've not thought beyond gratifying my basic lust.

The way I saw it and still see it it's about novelty the Coolidge effect as Sex at Dawn calls it. Men and women instinctively seek novel sex partners as a way of diversifying the gene pool which can become inbred in small tribal groups. That instinct manifests itself as a drive for novelty and I'm assuming one sure way of making any animal unhappy is to deny it a biological drive or instinct.

Humans are intensely social organisms one explanation for our large brains is that we needed to evolve all those neurons to promote language as well as keeping track of intricate social networks. Along with our closest primate cousins the bonobos and chimpanzees humans use sex for social bonding and networking. I am just beginning to understand we live in a culture which minimizes the importance of sex as a widespread social interaction and which compensates by obsessing about sex in every other guise pornography advertising etc.

I'm saying this only to emphasize that the need for sex as a social bonding activity wider than the nuclear pair bond is most likely biologically ingrained in us. Forcing ourselves through monogamy to deny that need will have consequences. I know some of this is contentious I don't want to open a whole can of worms. I guess these are the intellectual justifications I've looked to in trying to understand the strong and unhappy feelings I experience every day. As I've said it feels like hunger.

To try and answer your question Magdlyn then yes I do think I feel a need deep down for intimacy. I'm not sure I'd be the infatuated/obsessed type with a new sex partner it doesn't sound like me. But intimate friendship yes that sounds nice. Even "falling in love" which might be no more that a hormonal high a good and healthy one.

I do feel very close to A and there is so much common understanding between us. So there is at least one person in the world I share a deep intimacy with at some levels. I suspect the problem I have with my hunger for someone else feels huge mostly because it's the one thing I have not been able to open up to her. I don't want to sound pathetic again but her accepting this part of me would be such a blessing it would make our relationship somehow complete. I just don't know how to get the two of us there prayer maybe.

As for pornography it can drain a lot of energy because of sleep deprivation in front of the computer. I don't feel that addicted because I've sometimes gone for months without feeling the need. I sometimes think I deliberately seek it out as a kind of defiance or trying to understand what I am really after. As I said before it makes me disgusted with myself not so much because I think it's a wrong thing to do but because it's something I am forced to hide from A and i hate that. It makes me feel alienated. You're right it is ultimately very unsatisfying and quickly gets boring too.

I can't believe that people could take an interest in my little self absorbed world. Thanks so much for reading this Magdlyn and everyone else on this thread.

River no offense mate I've enjoyed you and nycindie sparring. You have something going on? ;)

[jackbungee]

Magdlyn I replied at length to your last post a few days ago but I don't see anything on the thread. Do you see anything? Do posts sometimes go missing on this site? I sent an email to the moderator but have not had a reply.

[Magdlyn]

Jack, if you click on the "remember me" box when you sign in, you won't lose posts. If you don't click that, you can get timed out (I think it's after just 10 mins, at least it is at other VBull message boards I've been to) when you're composing a lengthy post. Just remember to log out when you're done here, if you need the privacy (shared computer).

I look forward to your reply.

[jackbungee]

Magdlyn you ask the hard questions and it's good. Honesty time. Yes looking inside I think I would enjoy even seek out intimacy. The obsession/infatuation part does not sound like me I don't get like that. Am I contradicting myself? I am desperate to quench the sexual hunger in my life it's true. I have had passing crushes. I'm sure it can feel great to be in love a hormonal high probably. Will that affect my love for A and my family? Who can tell I don't know. Reading the experiences in this forum they seem to go both ways.

What I do notice is I am more capable of love and tenderness when I am emotionally on form. I am especially well when I train a lot in my sport or have good times with my friends. When I'm down I'm usually down because I'm not active enough. If a love affair boosts feelgood hormones wouldn't that make me even more loving in my primary relationship?

You can see I'm trying to predict from what little I know. I have no experience of polyamory. It's probably a lot harder in practice than me dreaming here.

I honestly don't feel there's anything wrong with feeling close to others in addition to my primary partner and deriving emotional sustenance from others. I wouldn't love A any less at least that's what it feels like now. Feeling more complete and understood should help make me a better person. I would be less stressed more relaxed more secure more content. Except if A takes it badly then it would be hell.

Funny how I take A's commitment to me for granted while she doubts mine. It's actually the other way round I know I'll never leave her and she often thinks I will. Strange also it's never about whether she might leave.

As for porn addiction it comes and goes. I'm not sure I fit the addiction profile you mention. I have gone for many months at at time without feeling I need it. When I do go looking for it it sometimes feels as if I'm doing it more out of defiance trying to find out what I need. Like a starving man looking at a picture cookbook. It does not take long to say yup I think I could have some of that. It gets boring after a while.

Again thanks for reading. I still can't believe anyone would take an interest in my self absorbed little world. Yous are amazing.

I enjoyed your teasing River and nycindie. You have something going on? ;)

[nycindie]

About the porn thing, check out http://yourbrainonporn.com/ (http://yourbrainonporn.com/). It's related someohow to another site which has awesome information about how our brains work when sexually aroused. That is here: http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain (http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain).

I will respond more personally to your posts, but can't right now as I have to get ready to go out at the moment (and I'm running a diagnostic on my PC as I do that!). Just wanted to give you those links for now.

PS - I loved Auckland when I visited in 1990. When in NZ, I lived most of the time in Manaia, but did spend some good, quality time in Auckland and remember it fondly. I was only visiting Godzone for a couple of months. Still have a pen-pal relationship with a former love that I met in Auckland, but now he's in Whangarei.

[jackbungee]

Bugger now my first lost post turns up and it looks like I duplicated my reply from memory. It must have sat in a moderator's in tray for a few days.

About the porn thing, check out http://yourbrainonporn.com/. It's related someohow to another site which has awesome information about how our brains work when sexually aroused. That is here: http://www.reuniting.info/science/sex_in_the_brain.

Thanks for the links nycindie they look very interesting from a quick scan. I'll read them after this. Though I'm not sure porn is my main problem. I mentioned porn in my first post as an example of one of the things I find myself doing instead of having sex and how all those things drain my energy and my life. If porn can make one impotent whoa I'll cut right back. :)

My sex life with A is great I really can't ask for anything better with anyone else. In fact I don't think I would ever find such long term satisfying sex anywhere else. How do I explain my restlessness? It's not as if I'm in great pain but if the need goes unsatisfied for days and months and years I start feeling desperate. There are so many attractive people women around me every day I can feel the juices flowing. A hungry man inhaling the smell of delicious cooking and forcing himself not to eat any of it. It does not make any kind of sense. Now I know it's not me who's abnormal it's almost unbearable.

I loved Auckland when I visited in 1990. When in NZ, I lived most of the time in Manaia

You lived in Manaia of all places nycindie? It's really small lots of cows. :) Auckland was pretty quiet in 1990 it's grown up lots since then with shops and restaurants open later and more coffee shops.

[jackbungee]

OK I think this thread has run its course and I'm signing off. Thanks to everyone who listened to my story I very much appreciate your responses. :)
All the best,
Jack

[opalescent]

Best wishes Jack! Maybe give us an update some day?