lifestyle vs. identity in polyamory

[redpepper]

I get the feeling that some people become polyamourous as a lifestyle choice and some because they are naturally born that way and didn't know it was an option until now. What are your thoughts on that?

[Phy]

Choice ... this doesn't sound familiar, at least as far as I experienced it. I would have never choosen this out of free will, it scared me in the beginning. But I couldn't feel otherwise. I don't think that I have had a choice or even a say in this matter somehow. It just happened and I had to cope with it.

I won't judge those who heard of the term and it's meaning and felt something resonating within them, but as far as I am concerned, I would say it was just there somehow without me seeking it or even welcoming it.

[redpepper]

I know some people who choose a poly lifestyle until as they can't find a monogamous partner that is suitable or they don't want to commit. Kind of like a viable dating alternative amongst their friends and outter circle. When someone comes along that is a keeper they settle down into monogamy quite happily.

[Phy]

Maybe my definition of poly is quite narrow or something along those lines, but they can choose to love all those in order to widen their "field of possible partner material" and later just skipped those that they do not feel enough for and settle down with one of them? Was the feeling for “the rest” there at all if this is possible?

I have problems understanding this, maybe because of my personal situation. To think that there is something like an on/off switch that flips back when "the one and only" comes along is unthinkable now, as far as I am concerned, if there was love beforehand. Because this love should be equal to the one that develops when a new person comes into one's life. Love is too deep and too demanding. I can't imagine how this love can be as committed and lasting as the one, I experienced as love. I have never “chosen” to love someone.

It is hard to judge how a person feels in comparison to oneself, I don't think this is 100% possible in any case at all if I am honest, but for me this would mean: I choose to life polyamorous now and that there could be a time I meet a person more dear to me than my friend or husband now who makes me consider monogamy again and to fall out of love with those two?

To sum this up: isn't polyamory about love? Can one choose to love? And is a chosen love (as far as I understand it, a “forced” one) the same as the one that just develops on it's own?

*mumbles* this really got me confused now *scratches head*

[redpepper]

Maybe there are degrees of love that would make it that you could kinda love and care about several people to a certain extent and then find that you fall head over heels for one person and they become your everything so you become monogamous with them. Hence a poly lifestyle. Kind of like swinging. Its more of a weekend warrior thing. With a poly lifestyle it could be just for now. Its more honest than dating and possibly creates more depth I would think.

[just3]

Its something I think came natural years ago when I always had just multiple guy friends, and feelings for those multiple guy. Something I closed off for more years when I married and adopted a monogamous mind. Then opened up again and chose now after encouragement.
Chris

[rosephase]

I think poly is a choice. Just like every other relationship structure. I also happen to believe that loving more then one person at a time is something everyone on the earth is capable of. But relationship structure is a choice. I don't choose to love multiple people at the same time but I do choose to peruse and work on relationships with multiple people at the same time. That is a choice I get to make.

I think it's important and powerful to make this choice when it isn't as supported by our culture. But no I was not born this way. I'm choosing to live my life this way. Granted it might be that I wouldn't be able to be as happy if I was forced to be monogamous but monogamy is just a structure and culture builds structures.

I do believe that some people are more suited for poly but I always bristle at discussions about "hard wiring" because I believe the way we make relationship is built off of what we see around us either by excepting or rejecting or not even realizing that there are other options.

We build the way relationships look. I choose this. I don't think that should make it any less important, in fact, in a way I think it's more important then some gene that is forcing us to be some way we can't help. We GET to choose. And the more information out there, the more out people, the more examples of poly in the world the easier it gets for people to see there are options. And options are good.

[AnotherConfused]

I'm thinking there's a difference between being polyamorous and doing polyamory, with the first being a person's nature and the second being a lifestyle choice.

I love more than one person, and I don't think I have a choice in that matter. (I would have to close myself off socially to prevent falling in love, I think.) I only have sex with my husband; that's a choice I made because I married him, and he is not comfortable with it any other way.

[BornEmpathinVirgo]

Maybe there are degrees of love that would make it that you could kinda love and care about several people to a certain extent and then find that you fall head over heels for one person and they become your everything so you become monogamous with them. Hence a poly lifestyle. Kind of like swinging. Its more of a weekend warrior thing. With a poly lifestyle it could be just for now. Its more honest than dating and possibly creates more depth I would think.

I think I have come to the conclusion that everyone in my life that I have loved, I have loved them in their own individual way. Meaning that each one "owns" that love. Some more intense than others but still differently in some way...just my thoughts and conclusions because Love, to me, has so so sooo many different levels.

[SourGirl]

Good topic !

I like how rosephase worded it, but I`ll take the blunt version as well.

Poly/OR is a choice for me, and therefore a lifestyle.

I believe we DO choose who we love. We all have those moments before we know we are in love. Where we feel that spark and pursue it. It is a choice to decide to pursue love with a person.

I believe in levels of trust, and levels of love. Its not something I decided first and then followed, its how I operate naturally. The things I have opened myself up to in life, I let myself follow natural paths, so I know who and what, I really am. I did this with learning about poly as well.
I`ve always been frank about my capabilities, and desires in this manner with those I date. I also don`t feel comfortable when those I ever dated, told me they loved me the same as their spouse, or girlfriend, or what-have-you. So it works both ways for me. I am not trying to take with one hand, and not give the same with the other.

I can choose monogamy for long strings of time, and I can choose multiple-loves for strings of time. Though I don`t and wouldn't ever cut a secondary off because I wanted to be mono for awhile. When the natural death of a relationship happens, I might choose to be mono for a long time. When I lost a girlfriend I cared about many years ago, I stayed happily monogamous for 4 years. Primary means more to me then someone I chose to share bills and kids with. Its a level of commitment, and depth of love, too.

I don`t feel a 'hole' in my life with only one partner. Loving more then one is a priviledge, I think. For those of us lucky enough, to be able to engage it. There are many people in the world who love more then one person ( think of all the people who carry a torch for a 'old flame', yet are married and love another. ) but are unable to pursue loving more then one, for a variety of reasons.

I feel lucky and blessed when it comes my way, but I don`t turn into a puddle without extra loves in my life. I enjoy my monogamous side, as much as my multiple-loves side.

[MonoVCPHG]

I'm hard wired mono and know people who just live monogamously because they don't know anything else.......so I would imagine you could be naturally poly and/or choose to be poly as well.

But this topic is not for me...if only I could choose to be poly :p

[redpepper]

I think that it is possible to both chose the lifestyle with some people and identify with others now that I think of it. I have most definitely fallen in love with others and not been able to control that. Its almost an uncontrollable, deep rooted urge to be with them and express it. When I can't I am deeply saddened. This to me makes me identify as poly... much as I identify as pansexual.

With others I have loved them, but chosen how much I engage with them and what level of involvement I have... some of them I have grown to love deeply over time, but not in a driven way... I chose this and therefore it is the lifestyle I have chosen.

[handknit]

Hmm. This is interesting, especially as I've been considering my own identity recently. I'm not sure I'd consider myself poly, although at this particular point I am in a poly relationship and in love with two people. But I don't feel that my life would be lacking or unfulfilled if I were to be monogamous, or without partners at all. Then again, prior to this relationship I had pretty much decided that I was going to be single for the rest of my life and that was fine with me. I don't generally go looking for romantic involvements at all, let alone ones with multiple people involved.

So... maybe I'm not poly? Or maybe I am, because I've chosen to be a part of a poly relationship? But maybe I'm not, because it's not something I would seek out on my own? Or maybe I am, because I clearly have the capacity to love more than one? Heck if I know.

[Mohegan]

Very interesting topic.

I'm not really sure where I stand with it. I have had poly tendancies most of my life. But when I met Karma I knew I could be okay being only with him. I have had people come into my life that I have loved and thought "wow wouldn't it be nice if we could be one happy family". But never took it anywhere b/c I didn't know how it would be possible, how I would handle it. I have a hard time placing my attention on more than one person. I cycle with friends, I spend time with this one for awhile, then I cycle of to this one for awhile, then that one. Maybe it's partialy a coping thing with the fibro, b/c it seems to take more out of me to try and really spend time and energy on multiple people.

But on the other hand, now that we are stronger and are living this life, even though I am yet to date anyone other than Panda, I feel a bit more free, a bit more at peace. It's okay to look again, it's okay to consider another relationship. And with that freedom comes a bit a weight lifted, and a much more open and communicative marriage.

So I guess it's a born that way, but I have the abilty to shut it off. I guess. I mean I honestly very rarely looked at someone in a sexual or emotional love way. But now that I can it's like turning on a switch.

I really was happy and content with just Karma. Never felt like I was missing something or wasn't being true to who I was. It's more like I was okay with where I was, but then I opened a door and saw the greener grass.

[River]

My thoughts are this.:

As a species, humans are naturally non-monogamous.

Yet most of us live in cultures where monogamy is expected of us.

Some of us choose not to allow the culture to dictate our lives.

Some people are happily monogamous, for varying durations. But most people eventually feel constrained by monogamy.

All of this is more complex than I just said, because I used monogamy in its shorthand form, without complicating it with the fact that there are sexual and emotional monogamy and non-monogamy.

Some couples are emotionally monogamous (by choice) while sexually non-mongamous.
What this means is that they engage in sex outside of a relationship but don't become much emotionally bonded with their partner/s.


On a personal note, I have such an overwhelming preference for emotionally bonded sexual touching that any alternative is just not that attractive.

[GroundedSpirit]

Hey RP,

Yea - from listening to so many people discuss their entry into poly I think you are right.

For many (maybe most?) it's really like coming home. There was always this internal thing they felt but had no name for or concepts how to proceed if they did.

For some, I think it is a conscious 'choice'.

What scares me about that though is that in many of those cases it may be driven from failure. Failure of the 'mono' model to work out and an attitude of ..........
"well - mono sucks so let's try something else - nothing to lose".

To me, those people can be dangerous. At least at the beginning, it's not "close enough to the heart" to be reliable. It's an experiment and the things than can make one lovestyle fail can make them ALL fail !

Thoughts..........

GS

[redpepper]

I think its important to be aware that choosing poly might be temporary and that people who are potential partners might be choosing poly rather than identifying as such. Awareness and being honest.

It could be that any relationship dynamic will be an alternative one day. Not exclusive to monogamy or non-monogamy but just letting relationships become what whatever they are meant to be. Letting our relationship lives just be in general.

[redpepper]

I would hazard a guess that some people believe monogamy or even long term monogamoy to be a priveldge in the dating/relationship world.

[nycindie]

I think poly is a choice. Just like every other relationship structure. I also happen to believe that loving more then one person at a time is something everyone on the earth is capable of. But relationship structure is a choice.

This is pretty much how I see it. I am a human being who chooses to live polyamorously. I see relationships as poly or mono, not people. My happiness, sense of fulfillment, self-esteem comes from my own internal work on myself, self-knowledge, etc., but is not dependent upon the structure of my relationship(s).

Polyamory is a possibility, and a container for which to develop relationships. If I say "I'm polyamorous," I don't mean that being polyamorous is my nature. When I say that, I mean that is how I choose to live. If I were to say, "I'm single," no one would ask me, "oh, are you hard-wired that way?"

[marksbabygirl]

Good topic !

Poly/OR is a choice for me, and therefore a lifestyle.

I believe we DO choose who we love. We all have those moments before we know we are in love. Where we feel that spark and pursue it. It is a choice to decide to pursue love with a person.

I feel lucky and blessed when it comes my way, but I don`t turn into a puddle without extra loves in my life. I enjoy my monogamous side, as much as my multiple-loves side.

This is true for me as well.

I am mostly happily monogamous right now. Every once in a while I look at OK Cupid or I think... hey,... he/she is really nice and I'd like to get to know them better, but for the most part, I'm fairly busy.

I have learned that the CHOICES I make must be made with care and consideration. Jumping into the first relationship, allowing myself to fall in love with the first person who shows interest in me... that can be disasterous.

But poly is definately a choice - I love more than one, but I choose the number of relationships I engage in.

[MonoVCPHG]

I love more than one, but I choose the number of relationships I engage in.

There's where we differ internally. I love only one but could choose to have multiple relationships. I am a certain way but could choose to live in many ways. Very cool!...of course it would be an act on my part because I'm not poly :rolleyes:

[marksbabygirl]

There's where we differ internally. I love only one but could choose to have multiple relationships. I am a certain way but could choose to live in many ways. Very cool!...of course it would be an act on my part because I'm not poly :rolleyes:

The potential lawyer/loves to debate brat comes out in me... :p

You love more than one. You love your daughter, LB, RP, PN... you just love them in different capacities ;)

<please note that the above brattiness was simply a that... brattiness>

I do understand that for many - that is the way it works. However - I still think that potentially the *potential* to love more than one is there - based on the above brattiness ;) In your case, I'd say that potential has about .000000000001% chance of blossoming ;) :p

[neegoola]

after reading you all here, there would be so many words coming out from me, 'cause the thread is very interesting, but i limit my thoughts' river with:

IMO of course there are people who are born poly, who have always seen one's own self being poly but choosed for this current incarnation very difficult circumstances to live poly peacefully; some of us may keep on running in circles meeting humans which are not there for poly or, worst, people who think they are there for poly unions just to discover in a while that it was not true :rolleyes:
so, for instance there are some of "us" poly from our birth who have to renounce to gather in a poly-marriage nor in a couple-relation.
there are some shifty-little-separated circumstances left to.. aehm..choose..

i must add: one's place of living may not help in meeting souls with same direction and intention.
(hope my written english is understandable enough...i've been postponing my posts and for a period my reading here, tonight i just jumped!)

[MonoVCPHG]

You love your daughter, LB, RP, PN... you just love them in different capacities ;)

:p

My own lawyer has requested that I state "When I speak of love on this board it is the kind that includes, and is limited to, the kind that makes me want to express it sexually. That is a very different kind of feeling than the one I have for friends, children and metamours. I recognize that other people do not have this separation in regards to other people, especially children (which creeps me out), as it is often used for the multiple love argument. :eek:

[Minxxa]

Interesting question. I think I know that I have the capacity to love people at the same time, however I tend to live more or less monogamously. :p

What that means REALLY is that I don't hit it off with people enough to want to have a relationship/friendship AND sex very often, and in the past years the people I would have loved to explore more with were NOT in the position to do so-- i.e. married to other people with a not open or DA/DT policy, neither of which I will do.

And then the past... oh, 4 years or so my health was deteriorating, and then in the healing process, both of which took most of my time and energy aside from work and my children and my husband. I didn't have a lot of extra time, and I most definitely didn't have the energy to get gussied up and get the hell out and be in any position to meet anybody.

So now that I'm mostly back physically and getting there with energy... I'm open to the possibilities. But as I'm finding out, it may take me a while to meet anybody I feel that connection with. I'm good with that now. It used to bug me because hubs meets people EVERYWHERE! But I've gotten over the "fairness" of it all and realized that we are different people and will connect/or not connect in different ways.

[marksbabygirl]

My own lawyer has requested that I state "When I speak of love on this board it is the kind that includes, and is limited to, the kind that makes me want to express it sexually. That is a very different kind of feeling than the one I have for friends, children and metamours. I recognize that other people do not have this separation in regards to other people, especially children (which creeps me out), as it is often used for the multiple love argument. :eek:

Well - I don't have any sort of sexual love for my kids... that beyond creeps me out but they don't have a *vomit face*

I am seriously in love with one of my friends. She is A: very monogamous and B: straight. Leaves me with nothing but enjoying the friendship. And she is one of my bffs. Plus she has a great ass so I get to enjoy the view ;)

As far as metamours - the one I *did* have, it had the potential to be a loving relationship - but personalities/wants/desires got in the way.

I think when it comes down to it... the ability/want/need/desire to love more than one or be in more than one relationship is individual.

:)

[MonoVCPHG]

I think when it comes down to it... the ability/want/need/desire to love more than one or be in more than one relationship is individual.

:)

:) :)

[redpepper]

I heard somewhere that lust is taking and love is giving. Even when in love there is a longing for the person, but its not a lusty feeling. Its a taking or receiving feeling, but is created out of loving/giving simultaneously. I think this might mean the difference between lifestyle and identity some how. Not sure how to put that together. Thinking out loud. Maybe more between swinging and poly? Another topic, sorry, hijacking my own thread! :p

[BornEmpathinVirgo]

Maybe more between swinging and poly?
I am leaning more towards this one!

[serialmonogamist]

I think the potential to love is not a choice. It is either there or it isn't. However, when structuring concerns are dominant, whether it be to protect a monogamous relationship from infidelity or to prevent having to further stretch your schedule with new partners in a poly relationship, I think people choose to sacrifice potential love in the interest of other things. It may be harsh or cynical to look at it this way, but I think if you honestly reflect on your life you would discover many instances where you sacrificed (potential) love or the pursuit/maintenance of love for some other concern. Is it a tragedy or just business or both?

[Mya]

I think I've been polyamorous all my life. I've liked other people romantically many many times during my 8 year long relationship with JJ. The crushes didn't progress to love because I chose not to pursue those people. These feelings for other people have never affected how I feel for JJ, I've loved him just as much as ever. This makes me think that I really am polyamorous by nature. The fact that I'm now in a polyamorous relationship, that is obviously a choice.

I think people choose to sacrifice potential love in the interest of other things. It may be harsh or cynical to look at it this way, but I think if you honestly reflect on your life you would discover many instances where you sacrificed (potential) love or the pursuit/maintenance of love for some other concern. Is it a tragedy or just business or both?

I do agree with this. I can see many potential loves in my past if I just had pursued them. But I chose not to because at the time we were monogamous with JJ and that would've been the end of our relationship. I don't think of it as a tragedy though, it was just a choice I made like any other choice in order for both of us to be happy.

When I met my girlfriend rory, the time was right for me and JJ to enter into a polyamorous relationship. We were both ready for it. I hadn't really thought of myself as polyamorous before that (hadn't really thought about it) but now I most certainly do, since I love two people. I think that will stay as a part of my identity in the future as well, no matter what happens in my current relationships. I believe I could still choose a monogamous lifestyle, even though I know this about myself. Maybe. I hope I don't have to though. :p

[serialmonogamist]

I do agree with this. I can see many potential loves in my past if I just had pursued them. But I chose not to because at the time we were monogamous with JJ and that would've been the end of our relationship. I don't think of it as a tragedy though, it was just a choice I made like any other choice in order for both of us to be happy.

Yeah, I don't think it's that big of a sacrifice. The sacrifice that is to me unbearable is having to assure someone else that they're the only one you think about to protect their emotional security. It seems like people should be mature enough to accept the truth that you have a crush on someone else but that you're not going to act on it without wanting to close themselves off to you. Still, that is the ultimatum you're usually dealing with in monogamy, i.e. "tell me that you have eyes for anyone else and I'll close up until you keep your mouth shut about it." This is how people learn to lie and keep their feelings secret from the ones they love, I think.

[nycindie]

It seems like people should be mature enough to accept the truth that you have a crush on someone else but that you're not going to act on it without wanting to close themselves off to you. Still, that is the ultimatum you're usually dealing with . . .
You just haven't met the right people yet.

[serialmonogamist]

You just haven't met the right people yet.
Well, I also have to admit that it would/will be very hard for me to build up the trust in someone that they can have a crush on someone else or find other people attractive and be strong enough to sacrifice the opportunity to act on it. I'm sure that must sound controlling to an actively poly person, but from my mono perspective I can't see accepting someone else falling in love with another person and wanting to jump ship if I'm planning to resist doing that for them. If I was with a poly person and I already knew she had other relationships when we started hanging out, I think that would be different. I think that would be a comfortable, easy relationship actually but I find it hard to imagine I wouldn't feel like I was tempting her to lose interest in her man, which I wouldn't want to do. I have real respect for people who can make poly work, because you're dealing with such strong monogamous cultural traditions, norms, etc.

[nycindie]

Well, I also have to admit that it would/will be very hard for me to build up the trust in someone that they can have a crush on someone else or find other people attractive and be strong enough to sacrifice the opportunity to act on it. I'm sure that must sound controlling to an actively poly person, but from my mono perspective I can't see accepting someone else falling in love with another person and wanting to jump ship if I'm planning to resist doing that for them.
This is interesting. In all your other recent posts (including your previous one just a bit further up this thread), you talk about how you don't want to mislead a women into thinking you will be monogamous when you want to be able to pursue other crushes and attractions, and you bemoan the idea that women won't stick around because of that. Now you are saying the opposite -- that you will be the faithful one and they will fuck around. So, it would seem that you are afraid either way. You've mentioned going through a divorce. Maybe you're gun-shy and really not ready for dating yet -- much less choosing multi-partner dating (polyamory).

[nycindie]

. . . that beyond creeps me out but they don't have a *vomit face*

Here ya go: http://planetsmilies.net/vomit-smiley-7502.gif

[serialmonogamist]

This is interesting. In all your other recent posts (including your previous one just a bit further up this thread), you talk about how you don't want to mislead a women into thinking you will be monogamous when you want to be able to pursue other crushes and attractions, and you bemoan the idea that women won't stick around because of that.
I don't want to pursue them. Just acknowledge their existence and not have to hide them or keep them secret.

Now you are saying the opposite -- that you will be the faithful one and they will fuck around.
I'm not saying they necessarily will. I'm saying that if my gf told me she had a crush on someone, I would have a hard time avoiding thinking that she's going to cheat on me if given the chance.

So, it would seem that you are afraid either way. You've mentioned going through a divorce. Maybe you're gun-shy and really not ready for dating yet -- much less choosing multi-partner dating (polyamory).
"Gun-shy" is probably a good word for it, though I'm still working on processing the meat of the metaphor. I'm not really looking to choose multi-partner or single-partner polyamory. I'm just trying to honor my (lost) marriage without staying alone for the rest of my life. I don't really believe in divorce so polyamory seems like a solution to my ethical dilemma.

[monopolylover]

I get the feeling that some people become polyamourous as a lifestyle choice and some because they are naturally born that way and didn't know it was an option until now. What are your thoughts on that?

we are human. unlike most animals in that respect we live in a different condition that merges instinct, genetics and our individual personalities as they develop our forward logic. I think if we are "hard wired" for anything it is sex in general. By that I mean ALL forms of sexual activity. It is the summation of our personality traits and growth that bring us to hard wiring of what type of sex we prefer. For me homosexuality is a gray area because I do believe that can be a genetic trait as well as a combined trait that can develop from the summation of the personality with genetics or instinct.
I think the way to tell when a person is just "playing it" so to speak is when they fall into circular logic. "This is that or I am this because this is that or I am that because that is that and i am this."

As advanced as we are it stands to reason some parts of us complete others in what we truly are as they develop. Not always or specifically from just birth.

[Tonberry]

I definitely see poly as something that I am and part of me, and not a choice I've made. On the other hand I have also made choices, such as the choice to be open and to practice poly over cheating, for instance, or repression.

So, I would say, it's kind of both for me. Being that way, and choosing to live accordingly.

[BlackUnicorn]

Maybe it's partialy a coping thing with the fibro, b/c it seems to take more out of me to try and really spend time and energy on multiple people.

Vanilla and I both have been diagnosed with fibro, but I've been coping with mine for 10+ years, whereas she got it just last summer and is having MAJOR issues with coping and combining work, let alone multiple relationships, with constant pain and lack of energy :(.

I find that whenever a new relationships begins/ends, I have a closed-off period when I don't really want to seek out anyone new. A honeymoon period during NRE, and a mourning period when a relationship ends. So no matter how much I intellectually shy away from poly-fi, I have my poly-fi tendencies come very naturally at certain times. Imagining that out of my two relationships, one would end, that would in practicality translate to a period of freely chosen monogamy.

So on a spectrum of monogamy-polyfi-open polyships, my natural inclinations would fall somewhere between polyfi and open. Having experienced very little jealousy and certainly none towards a romantic partner having another romantic interest besides me, I would like to think I'm well-equipped for my chosen path. When accidentally monogamous :), I urge my partners to look, even if I'm not in the mood for some reason - a form of natural compersion, perhaps. But the decision to pursue multiple relationships while single was definitely a lifestyle choice. I strongly identify as poly due to my "natural" tendencies and strong belief in it as a valid relationship style, but it wasn't how I started.

[BornEmpathinVirgo]

I dont think poly can FIX a relationship...Dont you need a strong primary relationship in order for this to work in the first place?

[nycindie]

Dont you need a strong primary relationship in order for this to work in the first place?
That applies if you are in a couple and wish to move from mono to poly, or abide by having a hierarchy. But there are plenty of solo poly people out there, too (like me), and plenty of people who don't see relationships in terms of primary, secondary, and so on. So, we have to cultivate all our relationships to be strong and healthy, since there is no primary one -- or, rather, all of them are primary.

[BornEmpathinVirgo]

That applies if you are in a couple and wish to move from mono to poly, or abide by having a hierarchy. But there are plenty of solo poly people out there, too (like me), and plenty of people who don't see relationships in terms of primary, secondary, and so on. So, we have to cultivate all our relationships to be strong and healthy, since there is no primary one -- or, rather, all of them are primary.

This makes perfect sense!!:)