First Date for the "other" partner.... [Archive]

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LovingRadiance

11-23-2009, 03:48 AM

So as most of you know Sept. 25th I explained to Maca (probably not the best way possible) that much of the previous problems and complications that I have brought to our marriage are because I am and always have been Poly. Only I didn't KNOW that "poly" existed!

At that point I also let him know that while I knew/know it isn't the BEST way to "start a poly relationship" the reality is that I am in love with our roommate and have been his lover off and on for damn near to 15 years. There is OBVIOUSLY a lot more I could say on that topic-but it's not for this thread.

Anyway-Maca hasn't had "anyone else" and one of the issues he was coming up against was not knowing if he COULD go through with making love to another woman without me there. We had a 3some with another woman early in our marriage becuase I knew it was a fantasy of his that he hadn't gotten to experience prior to our marriage. But he's never been with anyone else (since our marriage) on his own.

We talked about this extensively and I told him I thought he should just let me set up a one night stand with someone we can trust. Someone he could be with (or not if he just COULDN'T go through with it) that would respect and understand that this was about him facing his fears with a supportive friend. Someone who could accept not suddenly needing to be his "girlfriend" since he doesn't feel ready for that step but also wasn't going to treat the night like a casual fuck".

He agreed with some trepidation and the "date" was set for this weekend. Just prior to Friday night a HUGE drama that detrimentally AFFECTS our family in a MAJOR way and absolutely BROKE my heart but isn't pertinent to poly and isn't caused by ANYONE in our home happened.

He suggested cancelling-but for my own reasons, in spite of feeling a bit emotionally... sensitive, I decided to go through with it. On his side it went very well.

The one frustrating part for me was that I KNEW that although I am by nature not jealous or possessive in this way, this is STILL a big change of situation from our "normal" up to this point.

I had planned the date for Friday night so that we would have all day Saturday (Green Gecko is home Saturdays and could watch the kids) to process our emotions, reconnect, talk about how it went for him, what he learned about himself and how that may or may not impact us, our relationship etc.

However-due to the unexpected drama, that wasn't possible Saturday because I had all 3 of my Godchildren (1, 3, 12 yrs respectively) in addition to our two youngest (2, 9 years) and two others (5, 7 yrs). So I ended up feeling VERY distant, out of touch with Maca and frustrated in addition to already being emotional about the bs that was going on with my God kids.

It was late evening before we got to go do something and by that point my emotions were over-taxed. I burst into tears and worried him sick.

The cool thing for me was that he responded quickly and efficiently, loving me and listening as I expressed my grief about the kids, my reasons for not wanting to cancel and some of what I learned about ME due to the situation.

The plans had included a dinner together (all three of us) before hand, I had rented a hotel for them, set up the room (including her favorite scent perfume, massage oil and bath salts, condoms, etc). Maca was nervous so I had agreed to go to the room with them, settle them in, get things "moving" before I left. I was determined that I wasn't staying-although I'm sure that he would enjoy that, because if I'm there he isn't going to learn if he can or can't handle making love to another woman without me AND I'm not interested in being with anyone else at this time.

I figured out some things about my needs in the way this whole thing transpired. I expected that I would encounter some new thoughts, feelings etc that needed to be addressed (and need to create boundaries for future reference if he did manage to go through with it). But I wasn't expecting to come against a distant past heartbreak. I didn't expect to have a major emotional inner-turmoil from something that for all intents and purposes is long over. But obviously-there are still risidual feelings-specifically hurt in regards to it.

So we did finally have a great talk and we took most of this morning to really connect and that was AWESOME.

I guess my biggest point in sharing this-is that even if YOU aren't "new" to poly, if your partner is-there ARE going to be things YOU need to work through in their changing, growing and learning.

;)

Sorry if this post seems to die mid thought. My mom just walked in and I need to help out with some stuff for her. I will try to fill in anything I missed later.
:(

maca

11-23-2009, 04:34 AM

Lover , you are a great soul. Your my friend , wife and my lover.I have and I am learning so much in this life with you.I have heard," I dont even know who you are" so many times in the last two months, its scary. I'm me , I'm open, I'm true. I'm glad you have finally stopped living your life to suit the popular masses.

RP ( hugs my dear) you have been a friend just by talking to me.

Peace and Love
Maca

MonoVCPHG

11-23-2009, 04:36 AM

Sounds like you guys are in a good place...WOOT WOOT!! :D:D

LovingRadiance

11-23-2009, 04:42 AM

We are Mono.
It's been a little scary getting here (like a HARDCORE rollercoaster in many ways).
But it's so amazing to realize that through it we've BOTH had each other's back 100% and are at the end grinning and giggling. Though admittedly I think we'd rather head for a new ride then repeat this one! ;)

LovingRadiance

11-23-2009, 04:42 AM

MonoVCPHG

11-23-2009, 04:43 AM

LovingRadiance

11-23-2009, 04:44 AM

I'm mono..repeating the same ride is in my nature :eek:
Hopefully this is funny...

It is funny-just a little headturning with the giggle is all. ;)

redpepper

11-23-2009, 08:21 AM

Oh. I just wrote you a PM, not realizing this was all public knowledge and you answered some of my questions already! but publically!

So, I don't really get it. And it isn't our business so you don't have to respond (you did say it isn't for this thread), but why would Maca think that he couldn't fuck another woman without you around (I have to say, *really!*:rolleyes:) and why would you want to add this drama added to your life? Stuff like that creates craziness in my experience and adds more to an already complicated issue. Was this to some how even up the score, make you feel that your cheating for 15 years was somehow lessened? Was it just a way to have his needs met so that you would feel better about your and greenchecos needs being met? I don't mean to sound rude, and blunt, and certainly am not judging, but I am trying to understand and care about you all. How this would at all benefit anyone other than your friend and Maca got a night of fucking that was above board is very odd to me and rather puzzling. :confused:

redpepper

11-23-2009, 08:32 AM

LifesRogue

11-23-2009, 05:09 PM

Im still quite new to the definition of poly, as I have always been poly, but never knew of the definition persay either.

but wanted to respond to this,
My husband believes that there will be souls in life that intregue us, that we will often fall deeply for. I feel as he does, that there are ppl out there that u will love and care deeply for and hence generally where my poly ideals come from.

Hubby is similar however in that he is not specifically poly, although he is open to the idea that one day he may find a girlfriend, he really is very mono in PRACTICE, although poly in PHILOSOPHY...if that makes sense.

I have not ever set him up with anyone, but have tried to get an understanding of what he may be looking for in life. I would be lying to say it didnt thrill me to see him interested or looking at another girl from time to time, to know that I am not hurting him or 'leaving him in the dust' with who I am and MORE so, who he allows me to be day in and out.

So, although I can agree that this could be problematic for both parties, setting up a date night persay, I can also relate to the feeling of connection that Radiance is seeking from her partner. The connection being a simple understanding of how she feels being understood by her partner whom she cares deeply for and does not want to hurt because she is who she is, but the hubby does not view HIS life that way.

I live every day, day in to day out, hoping that I never hurt my hubby because of the way that I am. I pray in great thanks each of those days for the unconditional LOVE and RESPECT that he gives to me for being EVERYTHING that I am, inside and out.

just wanted to share...

maca

11-23-2009, 09:25 PM

I think I can speak for LR on one point. Any thing asked or stated on this board will not offend ither of us. The hard questions are allways the ones that people avoid for themselves.There also the questions that need to be asked and answered in order to grow.

I know that LR's purpose in this "date night" was not to make herself feel better about anything inthe past or the present.( We talked for a solid 2 weeks about it). It was I who brought up the concept of facing a fear of mine( weather I could sleep with someone and not go crazy). For me sex is not just a physical act. It has allways involved emotions. I know that I can FUCK but I wasnt sure I could makelove to someone else and not lose touch of my emotions and love for my wife.I know that dosent make sense to experienced Poly folk. But it made sense to me so I needed to explore that side of me and this was a safe way to do that.

As for dating this lady. Its not out of the question but its also not a right now thing for ither of us.It wouldnt be fair to her or me at this point in my life.As you all probably know there is and will still be major changes in my life and the way I see relationships.Until such time as I know that I have a grasp of what I need VS what I just want I cant be true to another.

As for what I think LR got out of it. She got her man back with a better understanding of our relationship. She got a friend from a guy that was stuck at JUST being a husband.She got to know that I now can understand that even though she has sex with GG she still comes back to me with love in her heart and in her soul for me. And that her love for me dosent change because she has another love in her life.

As for if Im Poly. I know that I am Poly. I wasnt able to accept it though. I didnt think I deserved it. I didnt think I could understand it. I was wrong....I just needed the go ahead from the most important person in my life ( LR). I needed to know I wasnt a freak of nature or that I was some sort of pervert that wanted to love more then just my wife.Im so much happier living with a open mind and open heart.

Peace and Love
Maca

redpepper

11-23-2009, 09:57 PM

Well that's all good news Maca! :) You had a very dangerous way of getting to your conclusion if you ask me, but you got there. That's all that matters.

redpepper

11-23-2009, 10:05 PM

redpepper

11-23-2009, 10:36 PM

ladyjools

11-23-2009, 11:53 PM

it sounds like this really has brought you all closer,

it was similar for Montianboy when he first started to experiment with poly, he wanted too but he was afraid, and it took actually being with another woman to help him see that he could do this without it affecting how he loved me,

so what you and Maca did makes perfect sense in my world :)

Jools

Ilove2men

11-24-2009, 12:50 AM

My take on this Redpepper, is that this was a replication of love with a safety net. With the other woman knowing that this had to be treated delicately. For some the actual act of sex holds greater significance than the emotional bond that they may have for each other. So this would confront the fear that the sexual act would harm their relationship or rather if Maca would be able to come back and view his relationship with LR in that same way he did before or if he would see it as tarnishing or taking away from his relationship with her.

Forgive me for speaking in general, but men sometimes do have a different view of sex and see it as a bigger deal than an emotional bond. I am thankful that the two of you have shared something very intimate publicly and please know that what I'm writing is basically what I have learned through your experience. My take on this its great that you learned that you can sleep with someone else and come back with the same love, but this is just a replication of love and if/when the time comes that you have feelings for someone else don't be suprised if the way the each of you react is different.
At least through my eyes, that is. So take it with a grain of salt. For me, an emotional bond brings in deeper emotions and fears than a physical act. But this is actually something I am exploring in myself because sex should be the ultimate expression of love and an emotional bond, but I know there isn't one needed to have sex. Anyways, before I take this topic onto something else I'll leave my inner search for another time.

LovingRadiance

11-24-2009, 12:54 AM

but why would Maca think that he couldn't fuck another woman without you around (I have to say, *really!*:rolleyes:)

Physically. What he was worried about was that since he was raised (and thought that he believed) that sex and love were...... well went hand in hand, then he was concerned he PHYSICALLY wouldn't be able to go there with someone else.

and why would you want to add this drama added to your life?

I don't. BUT I do want him to face down his fears and find out the truth of who he is. I want him to be able to know if he can or can't handle a poly relationship in any aspects he thinks interest him and know I will support him in doing so in so much as I can.

Stuff like that creates craziness in my experience and adds more to an already complicated issue.

yes it does add complications. I was careful to choose someone who is a GOOD friend of mine and understands fully that this is a one time thing so he could decide if he CAN be poly (on his end) and face his fears that he wouldn't be able to go through with things-as a friend guiding a friend down a frightening path that could lead to a beautiful garden on the other side.

Was this to some how even up the score, make you feel that your cheating for 15 years was somehow lessened? Was it just a way to have his needs met so that you would feel better about your and greenchecos needs being met?

Nope. Not at all. That's just not my style. I've always taken full responsibility for my actions. EVEN when I was doing them. (sounds bizarre-but it is true). Ironically GG's and my needs don't include NEEDING sex. Maca's do. Without sex-he feels less wanted, less loved, less needed. But GG and I don't have that dynamic in our relationship. GG's a crapload more "vanilla" than Mono just based on the few things that have been detailed about Mono on this board. Our "needs" are more along the line of time to talk about WHATEVER we want/need to discuss and freedom to confide in one another. I need to be able to put my head on his shoulder when my world starts to fall apart (or feels like it is) but it's really just not sexual. Dont get me wrong-yes we have and do have sex. But it's so completely not sexual... I don't even know HOW to explain that one. Sorry.

I don't mean to sound rude, and blunt, and certainly am not judging, but I am trying to understand and care about you all.

No worries. I don't mind questions-they help clarify concepts and ensure joint understanding. :)

How this would at all benefit anyone other than your friend and Maca got a night of fucking that was above board is very odd to me and rather puzzling. :confused:

Mostly-this was for Maca to "test the waters". The benefits to me (or GG) are only in our having more of an ability to bond with him if he knows himself better. That's it.

LovingRadiance

11-24-2009, 12:58 AM

Just one more thing, I'm glad it all brought you together! You have a funny way of bringing yourselves back to connection though I must say! :D

Does this mean Maca is considering dating this woman? Could he be poly after all?! Not the ideal way to start a relationship, but..... I'm one to talk. :p

Yes he's poly. I knew he was RP. But he had his heartbroken so often by lies and misinformation he was afraid to even acknowledge it within himself.

I don't know if he is considring that or not-but I do know that if he is-he's going to have to put a lot, LOT of time into building a friendship. She doesn't want a FB or even a FWB. She wants a bf who can love and care for her as she is for who she is (she's married as well and yes he knows all about it-he and I talked for hours Friday night as a matter of fact).
She learned the hard way that being someone's sextoy sucks.
She agreed to do this (don't usually speak for others but in this case I think it's ok) because she knew she was the safest bet for Maca to face his fears without significant "fallout" for him or the rest of us and she cares about our whole family. Our kids are friends, we are friends etc.

maca

11-24-2009, 12:58 AM

LovingRadiance

11-24-2009, 01:00 AM

Thanks lifesrogue. Very well put.

LovingRadiance

11-24-2009, 01:03 AM

So what was in it for this woman then? How does she feel about it? How do you feel about her now? Loving? You said it was love making, not just fucking, how would you be able to not want something more from the experience if you found the kind of connection lovemaking creates?

Sorry, I just find this facinating!

She's happy that she was able to help. She has a LOT going on in her life right now-so she's not really open to dating Maca right now anyway. But she's ALWAYS been "interested" in that possibility. IF things change in ways that make that work-great. If not she is happy with being friends.
Mostly it's led to her and I have some GREAT conversations about our own emotions/fears/concerns/frustrations with our husbands, lovers, friends etc in the last two days.

LovingRadiance

11-24-2009, 01:06 AM

Okay, more thinking... LR and GG are different than what you experienced no? They are in love...

I think that my definition of poly may be different than yours. Perhaps that's it. I don't understand how one makes love to a friend. Is that not for lovers? I never considered it before. You had candles, massage oil, the whole bit for someone that you just hang with. Or LR hangs with? For me I guess fucking and friends fits and lovemaking and lovers fits. Sometimes lovers fuck, but friends making love kinds jars me somehow. It feels uncomfortable. I say this with all due respect. If it worked for you then great, it makes me feel uneasy for some reason. I'm hoping that someone has something else to say as I feel like a bit of a dork with all this.

The "extras" were added by me. My friend does NOT get enough romancing in her life-and I knew Maca was capable of being that way-so I put the "extras" in place. She's my friend-would like to be his friend, but at this point aren't really FRIENDS in the truest sense.

I think the key difference is definition..

you can have sex with a sense of caring, friendship, desire to please the other person

or you can fuck-and it's all about hte physical sensations with no sense of ... compersion for the other person beyond the physical

or you can make love with someone and have that soulful connection that tells you there is a higher power (even if it's energy) and you are "one" with each other.

LovingRadiance

11-24-2009, 01:12 AM

My take on this Redpepper, is that this was a replication of love with a safety net. With the other woman knowing that this had to be treated delicately.

EXACTLY! :)

For some the actual act of sex holds greater significance than the emotional bond that they may have for each other. So this would confront the fear that the sexual act would harm their relationship or rather if Maca would be able to come back and view his relationship with LR in that same way he did before or if he would see it as tarnishing or taking away from his relationship with her.

PRECISELY!:)

Forgive me for speaking in general, but men sometimes do have a different view of sex and see it as a bigger deal than an emotional bond. I am thankful that the two of you have shared something very intimate publicly and please know that what I'm writing is basically what I have learned through your experience.

I'm glad I have you all to talk to and appreciate the feedback and thought provoking commentary.

My take on this its great that you learned that you can sleep with someone else and come back with the same love, but this is just a replication of love and if/when the time comes that you have feelings for someone else don't be suprised if the way the each of you react is different.

Maca's already finding that how he expected ME to react isn't how I reacted and there are thigs I knew to expect-that he didn't (in terms of my reactions) and I KNOW things will be MUCH more intense and require much more careful stepping if he falls in love with someone. There is so much care required in not allowing yourself to step on each others toes in the madness of falling in love with another.

At least through my eyes, that is. So take it with a grain of salt. For me, an emotional bond brings in deeper emotions and fears than a physical act.

Generally-me too.

But this is actually something I am exploring in myself because sex should be the ultimate expression of love and an emotional bond, but I know there isn't one needed to have sex. Anyways, before I take this topic onto something else I'll leave my inner search for another time.

Great topic for a new thread. ;) Hint hint. I am exploring some of that in myself as well right now!

Ilove2men

11-24-2009, 01:34 AM

[QUOTE=

Great topic for a new thread. ;) Hint hint. I am exploring some of that in myself as well right now![/QUOTE]

I will soon, but right now I must get off so the hubs can read the communication thread. So if I have a chance afterward I'll hop back on if not, tmrw it is :rolleyes:

redpepper

11-24-2009, 02:37 AM

When I refered to love making I was refering to the fact that It was tender, not rushed,not done without feelings. I didnt want to treat her like a toy to be played with. She has feelings also and she deserved to be treated that way.To me love making and fucking are a difference of mind set.LR and I fuck plenty ( and its great fun) we make love ( and its heart felt) and then there are times when we are IN love and our bodys are one.That last part is one that is reserved for someone that Im in love with.It dosent equate with sex all the time.
I do see a difference in being loving and being IN love.

maca

I think my definition of love making is different than what you were saying... it seems more like LR was saying actually... which is confusing and I wonder if it is something you talked about already. To me love making is all about the emotions and nothing to do with how long it takes, how someone is treated or intensity of the act. I have been fucked and been considered in terms of my needs for sure. I have been regarded in terms of someone spending time with my body also. I don't really have a problem with asking for my needs to be met either, but I knew it wasn't love making, it was still loveless sex and therefore fucking. Anyway, it's semantics really. Not all that important perhaps.

redpepper

11-24-2009, 02:40 AM

I will soon, but right now I must get off so the hubs can read the communication thread. So if I have a chance afterward I'll hop back on if not, tmrw it is :rolleyes:

Please do start a thread as I have done extensive research on myself in this regard in the past two years and have completely changed how I feel about my sexuality and that of others. I have become quite concerned for people actually in that they have been influenced by mass media, and a more global mind. Sheep I tell you, sheep. We are moving away from what really matters I find and sexually I was part of that movement... I'm not any longer however.

Anyway, more when there is a new thread.

Ilove2men

11-24-2009, 03:24 AM

Please do start a thread as I have done extensive research on myself in this regard in the past two years and have completely changed how I feel about my sexuality and that of others. I have become quite concerned for people actually in that they have been influenced by mass media, and a more global mind. Sheep I tell you, sheep. We are moving away from what really matters I find and sexually I was part of that movement... I'm not any longer however.

Anyway, more when there is a new thread.

I made it. While I sat there trying to sort through my thoughts it took a turn I didn't think it would take, therefore the title My icky can of worms. :o

LovingRadiance

11-25-2009, 04:57 AM

I think my definition of love making is different than what you were saying... it seems more like LR was saying actually... which is confusing and I wonder if it is something you talked about already. To me love making is all about the emotions and nothing to do with how long it takes, how someone is treated or intensity of the act. I have been fucked and been considered in terms of my needs for sure. I have been regarded in terms of someone spending time with my body also. I don't really have a problem with asking for my needs to be met either, but I knew it wasn't love making, it was still loveless sex and therefore fucking. Anyway, it's semantics really. Not all that important perhaps.

We've talked about that a number of times actually. One of the BIGGEST issues we've struggled with is that we have so COMPLETELY different definitions of SO MANY words that it makes communication a literal nightmare.
We don't have the same definition or understanding of what "love" "commitment" "faith" "fidelity" "sex" etc is. We've struggled with that for years (obviously there are more-those were obvious ones you could grasp the depth of the issue by reading).

Still working on figuring out how to meld some of that. Very frustrating. Very confusing. Very disheartening at times as well (like right now).

Ilove2men

11-25-2009, 02:37 PM

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone LR. Its very frustrating. Total blue fish tuba sometimes.

LovingRadiance

11-26-2009, 12:57 AM

Just wanted to let you know you're not alone LR. Its very frustrating. Total blue fish tuba sometimes.

THX, been a long week. I think we're making some break throughs today-I'll let you all know tomorrow!
Wish us luck!

Last night I took a bath while reading Opening Up. I was still so keyed up when I got out of the tub (water was cold) and emotional I got online and vented on messenger to a friend.
Then GG got home and I vented on him for a bit. But I could'nt relax.
Finally I laid on the livingroom floor with my head in his lap. He was listening to some music on his laptop I didn't know about and hadn't heard before but it was calming.
He read through all my emails, messages, random thinkings (written) and whatnot while just softly running his hand over my back.

I finally relaxed enough to go to bed.

I don't know why it's so hard for some people to realize that when your heart is racing and emotions are overwhelming you-you just need someone to CARE for a little bit-patiently care until you can get out the negative and breathe a little bit in the safety of their love and acceptance.

redpepper

11-26-2009, 08:20 AM

what was it about "opening up" that you were so emotional and overwhelmed... Mono has had that on loan for a long time now and still can't bring himself to read it... don't know why though.

I lent my dad "new love without limits" the other day... when the parents came for tea. We shall see how that goes over.

MonoVCPHG

11-26-2009, 08:31 AM

"opening up" .

:(

"new love without limits" .

:)

LovingRadiance

11-26-2009, 09:27 AM

I LOVED the book Mono suggested. It's AWESOME (Maca is reading it now).

Opening up has a lot of... concrete lists for defining relationships.
Instead of saying "be sure to communication" it's more of a
"did you discuss who is ok as a secondary, friends? neighbos? relatives? coworkers? exes?"
etc through a variety of the topics that commonly pop up in any nonmonogomous relationship-not just polyamory.
It's been very interesting to read.

I can't remember what got me all emotional. :(
There's been so much going on.

Good grief huh?

We finally got to "debrief" about our weekend in full today. I think we made some kick ass breakthroughs and are "back on track" with each other again.

So I spent 2 hours on fetlife and ... yeah-I got so lost I didn't know which page was where and while I read a few interesting posts, didn't really find anything new that I didn't already know.
:(

Anyway-we did find some other stuff elsewhere online that Maca and I found exciting. GG is here too-but I got all self-conscious (his roll is SO different with me) and I had to drop hte kinkier side of our "search" because I just couldn't keep going with him watching. :o

LovingRadiance

11-26-2009, 09:28 AM

reread my post-it wasn't the book that had me keyed up. Sorry for the confusing way I typed that. I was keyed up and emotional over the strain and distance between Maca and I since Friday. I was reading the book to "take a break".

;)

maca

11-27-2009, 01:07 AM

New love without limits
:D

Comming out is good also. Thats the book that asked the question about my perfect relationships.( posted about it on LR's thread about D/s)

Enjoying it tons. I have picked out a section that [I] have now reread 4 times and I refuse to move forward till I believe I completely comprehend it.

I have also decided that Im going to back off on New relationships and just concentrate on the ones I have now and work on myself. I realised I really dont know enough about myself to move beyond where I am at now.

Im actually very relieved that I made that choice.

Peace and Love